Hi, I am going to first come out and say that I am a hetrosexual male and have no desire to be change that. However I have a problem that I am sure ya'll deal with alot. That being hairloss.

I have gone through and am still going through very deep depression because of this. To the point that I believe I will end my life if I can not stop this from happening.

I am currently takeing finasteride and spironolactone a day for 2 months. I have been shedding like a dog for a month but it has stoped the recesion. I still have a full head of hair just some temple loss and general thinning.

Has anyone here had experiences with these drugs or other things that have helped them with hairloss that they can please share? I just want to know what is possible with these drugs.


BTW I have very minor hair loss now and would never be destined to be compleately bald ( men in my family typicly go to about a norwood 4) but I desire perfection if possible.
Thank you very much to anyone who posts!

Edited out dosage info - Nicki

no experience with the first, but some with the second..... If your taking those levels do you still have sexual function, as a male Id think that would be more important to you than a full head of hair. Personally id recommend reducing the stress in your life and considering Bosley or something.... If your not already shooting blanks and having a hard time performing.... you will quite soon.

Having seen the dosages you listed prior to inevitable removal, I'd say that's actually substantially higher than would normally be used for male pattern baldness.

Spironolactone isn't even usually used for hairloss in men because of its potent antiandrogenic effects.

I'd recommend going to your doctor for advice.

Both drugs can have pretty dangerous side effects that may not be apparent for some time after you start.

As for the effects, as you probably have already researched, male pattern baldness is caused by DHT, finistride inhibits the enzymes that produce DHT thus lowering levels of DHT and in turn reducing hair loss.

They can be very effective in preventing future baldness and limitedly effective in reversing existing hair loss.

Hair loss is a realy tough topic for a lot of men. I can see your anguish and it is driving you to extremes. But I think what you are doing is overkill. You are even talking much more than I am and I am taking them to transform my body. It sounds like you are self medicating.

With the spiro you can expect to lose muscle mass, potentially have some breast growth and have erectile dysfuntion, not to mention in the long term osteoperosus. What you are doing is very hard on the body, it needs sex hormones to operate well. This is also likely to contribute to your depression too and a lack of energy. So I would really stress that you seek professional advise on this.
On spiro you should be getting blood tests to monitor you kidney function too.

I think you should go see a dermatologist and I think you need to see a counsellor too.

Something to consider. It can take a 6 months or more to start seeing good results from Propecia (finasteride). More does not mean better, it is just dangerous for your body. Also once you stop taking it your hairloss will revert. So it is a life time commitment.

Something else to consider is people have good results with hair transplants now too.

Don't give up hope, see a dermatologist about the hairloss. It may not even be caused by male pattern baldness. It sounds like you have caught it early so I think there is a good chance you can keep what you have and maybe even grow some back.

Take care!

To be safer you are probably better off taking a standard dose of propecia and applying rogain twice a day. This will likely give you  results, though just one of these products has been shown to give good results.

Oh one more thing - Picard is sexy.

Spiro doesn't block the hormones that kill your hair follicles and Finasteride is only half as effective as Avodart (dutasteride), but ask your doctor about Avodart as I'm not sure if it would be safe to take if you're not transitioning, but I'm 99% sure it is. Just to be on the safe side.

Oh yeah. advodart is supposed to be better than finasteride. Can't get it in my country yet...

'

---

Post Merge: February 28, 2010, 05:37:23 PM

---

Spironolactone is much more effective for hairloss. I am sure of that. There is alot of studies that show it to block dht at the receptor sites. Also, I believe tstosterone cntributes to hairloss.
I just want to know if anyone here has used these meds and had the results of stoping hairloss or helping things at all. I would think that hairloss would be a big concern for an mtf and that this should be common knowledge on a forum such as this.
I know I don't have anything to contribute to this forum but I need help and not people telling me to get off the meds. Just what to expect mainly regarding hair.
I am ready to accept some side effects btw.

Thanks again.

---

Post Merge: February 28, 2010, 06:44:24 PM

---

Oh yeah I used finasteride and a whole lot of topicals for a year and it did not stop my loss.

And as far as dutasteride, it is not very highly regarded on hairloss forums and is typicaly not good for the hair line.

---

Post Merge: February 28, 2010, 07:56:06 PM

---

And LynnER, yes I still have good sexual function just not interested as much. Does it get alot worse or what?

the kicker with spiro is it reduces *all* sorts of testosterone from being made by the testis, not just DHT from being made like finasteride and dutasteride.

once DHT kills off the hair follicle, it's gone.

Quote from: negative on February 28, 2010, 07:26:45 PM
I am ready to accept some side effects btw.
...
And LynnER, yes I still have good sexual function just not interested as much. Does it get alot worse or what?

like going sterile

Quote from: Muffin on February 28, 2010, 06:19:25 PM
Spiro doesn't block the hormones that kill your hair follicles and Finasteride is only half as effective as Avodart (dutasteride), but ask your doctor about Avodart as I'm not sure if it would be safe to take if you're not transitioning, but I'm 99% sure it is. Just to be on the safe side.

Actually as far as I know spiro does in fact block DHT to a large degree as well. And Finastride isn't so much "half as effective" as it is that it only blocks one type of the two types of 5AR enzyme's. But it blocks the one that's most responsible for converting T to DHT, so it's not as simple as being "half as good".

Spironolactone does exist as a topical formulation specifically for hair loss because it does inhibit DHT's effects.

As for the original poster. You asked if what you're taking will prevent hairloss. The short and simple answer to that is pretty much yes, it will. But it could have very serious other complications as well that you may not be aware of.

Now this is just my understanding and I'm not an endocrinologist so you can take it for what it's worth, but although Spironolactone is "unlikely" to do you much permanent harm, it could cause you to have problems having children, and certainly while you're on it. And there are topical formulations you may want to look into instead. Spironolactone isn't usually prescribed for males because it's a powerful antiandrogen and so does a LOT more than just stops hair loss.

Finastride is the one I would really be concerned about, and I personally won't take it myself.

Finastride is works by inhibiting what's known as the 5AR (mostly type II but I think type I is also effected to a degree) enzyme. the 5AR enzyme converts the testosterone to DHT, and DHT causes hair loss in high enough levels. Which is the cause of male pattern baldness.

Now that's all well and good, but the problem comes in that 5AR enzymes don't "only" convert T to DHT, it also converts progestrone to allopregnanolone and at least one other conversion I can't remember, which despite the fact progestrone is a "female" hormone, it also has a role in your physiology too. There's plenty of stuff you can find on google if you want the rest of the boring technical details, but let me cut to the point and say that there is a large and growing body of evidence of 5AR inhibitors like finastride and dutastride causing serious neurological side effects including depression, "mind fog" and minor speech problems, among others.

What you are doing could have serious long term consequences and at the very least you should go and consult with a doctor.

Yes I could come to terms with going sterile if it meens I will be able to keep my hair. Hairloss cause it's own sexual side effects if you know what I meen.

I think this whole thing has caused me to develope a mild case of bdd.

This time last year I was 170 pounds and had very little fat on my body and a super thick head of hair, I was really happy with myself. Now I can't stop obsessing over my hair and I don't do alot of the things I use to. Now I weigh 160 and have lost some muscle tone. Due to depression not the meds.

Quote from: negative on February 28, 2010, 07:26:45 PM
'

---

Post Merge: February 28, 2010, 05:37:23 PM

---

Spironolactone is much more effective for hairloss. I am sure of that. There is alot of studies that show it to block dht at the receptor sites. Also, I believe tstosterone cntributes to hairloss.
I just want to know if anyone here has used these meds and had the results of stoping hairloss or helping things at all. I would think that hairloss would be a big concern for an mtf and that this should be common knowledge on a forum such as this.
I know I don't have anything to contribute to this forum but I need help and not people telling me to get off the meds. Just what to expect mainly regarding hair.
I am ready to accept some side effects btw.

Thanks again.

---

Post Merge: February 28, 2010, 06:44:24 PM

---

Oh yeah I used finasteride and a whole lot of topicals for a year and it did not stop my loss.

And as far as dutasteride, it is not very highly regarded on hairloss forums and is typicaly not good for the hair line.

Principle of Diminishing Returns... Most inhibition of MPB could be stopped by blocking DHT you might get a few advantages from blocking T but you will get exponentially more side effects than inhibition.

You might experience slight regrowth by slight any hair you've lost in the past 6 months you may or may not get that back.
you ought to stop any further loss, but it would be subject to the same conditions of any gains you got on your DHT blockers stopping results in reversal of gains.

Spiro dosen't bind with DHT sites to my knowledge although it would reduce via other ways... it works by begin indistinguishable from Testosterone thus your body thinks it's suffering T overload and stops its own production to bring the level down. Not using the glands and having no T to fuel there functions results in eventual atrophy and shrinkage from non-use... this will most likely in time become irreversible. Infertility and body builders testicles the size of peanuts.

If you don't replace T with something your at high risk of bone de calcification.
Thought you should know.

Quote from: negative on February 28, 2010, 08:37:42 PM
Yes I could come to terms with going sterile if it meens I will be able to keep my hair. Hairloss cause it's own sexual side effects if you know what I meen.

I think this whole thing has caused me to develope a mild case of bdd.

This time last year I was 170 pounds and had very little fat on my body and a super thick head of hair, I was really happy with myself. Now I can't stop obsessing over my hair and I don't do alot of the things I use to. Now I weigh 160 and have lost some muscle tone. Due to depression not the meds.

Did the depression start before the meds? Because hormone deficiency and 5AR inhibitors (the result of spiro and fin respectively) both have links to depression.

Loss of muscle tone is also an extremely likely side effect of spironolactone because androgens enable you to maintain muscle mass better.

But in either case, lets say they're nothing to do with the meds. Finastride as Propecia is a hair loss prevention drug, and spironolactone as a topical formula exists for that purpose too. What you're doing is very dangerous and you may not start to experience the more severe potential side effects for several more months. Also some of the side effects linked to 5AR inhibitors like Finastride and Dutastride last for a long period of time after discontinuing the medication.

Ashley, thank you for that.

So in general, there does not seem to ever be a problem with mtf girls not being able to stop hairloss with fin and spiro? Does it at least thicken to any extent?

I know I could have side effect but the way my brain is wired I can not tolerate any further hairloss at this time in my life. I would spiral into a deep depresion and probably kill myself. Thats just how I feel.

Quote from: negative on February 28, 2010, 08:48:24 PMSo in general, there does not seem to ever be a problem with mtf girls not being able to stop hairloss with fin and spiro? Does it at least thicken to any extent?

In my case it actually made it finer and lighter fluffier but more well behaved and ALOT less greasy and no dandruff problems.

Not really thicker.

Pebbles, No I did not know that about the bone decalsification. That worries me a little.  So the testical will atrophy down to the size of peanuts?! How long does that take?

Quote from: pebbles on February 28, 2010, 08:44:42 PM
Spiro dosen't bind with DHT sites to my knowledge although it would reduce via other ways... it works by begin indistinguishable from Testosterone thus your body thinks it's suffering T overload and stops its own production to bring the level down. Not using the glands and having no T to fuel there functions results in eventual atrophy and shrinkage from non-use... this will most likely in time become irreversible. Infertility and body builders testicles the size of peanuts.

If you don't replace T with something your at high risk of bone de calcification.
Thought you should know.

You're absolutely right about bone density as far as I know. However spironolactone works (as I understand it) by being an androgen antagonist. It is structurally similar to androgens like T and DHT, and so binds to receptors, but doesn't provoke the effects T and DHT do, competing with them and thus reducing their effect. Which I think also inhibits the production of T to begin with to a degree.

Pebbles thank you for sharing your experience.

Ashley, yes the depression started before the meds. I remember being at the gym and looking in the the mirror, I noticed my bangs were thinning . I remember also seeing a look of almost terror on my face to see a change.
Topical spiro is a waste of time IMO. I feel I have to stop this to get my life back on track.

effects (of atrophy) start after a couple (2-3) months and (the testis) gets smaller over time. after 6 months the effects start to get permanent, and after a year, don't count of them doing much anymore.

Quote from: negative on February 28, 2010, 08:55:39 PM
Pebbles, No I did not know that about the bone decalsification. That worries me a little.  So the testical will atrophy down to the size of peanuts?! How long does that take?

It can take a while, it varies but I wanna say... a yearish? Maybe more maybe less?

Quote from: negative on February 28, 2010, 08:48:24 PM
Ashley, thank you for that.

So in general, there does not seem to ever be a problem with mtf girls not being able to stop hairloss with fin and spiro? Does it at least thicken to any extent?

I know I could have side effect but the way my brain is wired I can not tolerate any further hairloss at this time in my life. I would spiral into a deep depresion and probably kill myself. Thats just how I feel.

Really it shouldn't be too big a problem with spiro alone. If T and DHT is within a female range or below their shouldn't be any male pattern baldness.

It can be extremely hard to see when you're feeling depressed, but it's not impossible your depression is caused by something else making it harder to deal with hair loss, rather than the other way around. I'm not saying it is or it isn't but you may want to see a therapist if you're having depression problems, no matter what the reason.

As for hair loss, I really think you should see a doctor if you haven't already. The drugs you're taking, and particularly the amount you're taking, is likely higher than need be and certainly carries some pretty significant risks that may not become apparent for some time.

A doctor can explain to you the options better than we can, but there's nothing abnormal with men taking Propecia (finastride) for hair loss prevention. That's what it's for.

Spironolactone on the other hand is very broad in its antiandrogenic properties, and should only be given in high dosage pill form to males in pretty specific circumstances, of which hair loss isn't one.

Quote from: FlanHusky on February 28, 2010, 09:02:40 PM
effects (of atrophy) start after a couple (2-3) months and (the testis) gets smaller over time. after 6 months the effects start to get permanent, and after a year, don't count of them doing much anymore.

How do you know this? Any science behind it?

Not trying to be a smart a$$ btw. Just a question.