Quote from: Miniar on June 21, 2010, 08:57:23 AMThe Icelandic GLBT movement doesn't really divide itself so much. It's more concerned with "all inclusive human rights" than "gay rights".

Well, here in the US, we slice and dice everything into little bits. Then so-called leaders try to gather up the pieces and unite them so as to advance their own personal agenda.  It's the age old tactic of divide and conquer.

Try to push a simple all inclusive human rights movement forward and it's just a matter of time before some voice from the distance begins fear mongering tactics so our morals won't be eroded, our children won't be harmed or our religious beliefs won't be challenged.  And sure enough the sheep will follow.

Majority rules.  Might makes right.  That's how we do it here.

Was saddened to find my local LGBT society didn't even cater for the -T.

It's almost like a way of keeping all the "weird" people in one group, even if that label is used by those in it themselves.

The Icelandic GLBT movement doesn't really divide itself so much. It's more concerned with "all inclusive human rights" than "gay rights".

Well, here in the US, we slice and dice everything into little bits.

Of course the total population of Iceland is a solid 100,000+ people LESS than the semi-rural/mostly agricultural COUNTY I live in in California, or, about 1% of the population of the United States as a whole.  That might make a bit of a difference.

Iceland = 317K
Sonoma County = 466K
US = 307 million

Quote from: tekla on June 23, 2010, 04:32:08 PM
The Icelandic GLBT movement doesn't really divide itself so much. It's more concerned with "all inclusive human rights" than "gay rights".

Well, here in the US, we slice and dice everything into little bits.

Of course the total population of Iceland is a solid 100,000+ people LESS than the semi-rural/mostly agricultural COUNTY I live in in California, or, about 1% of the population of the United States as a whole.  That might make a bit of a difference.

Iceland = 317K
Sonoma County = 466K
US = 307 million

Canada 33 000 000

I am definitely in the B/T community, and although I fully support the G/Ls, I can't personally identify with them. 

Quote from: DeniseK on June 23, 2010, 05:58:06 PM
I am definitely in the B/T community, and although I fully support the G/Ls, I can't personally identify with them.

I'm only in the T and it makes it very noticeable how the vast majority of references to LGBT have no real relevance to me because of it.

LGBT really just means LGB.

I think the reason they are allied is because one is often perceived as the other by the ignorant masses. For example, many people think that trans people are just "ultra femme" gay men or "ultra butch" lesbians.

I appreciate the inclusiveness of LGBT(&Q). In LA where I am, "The Center" has programing for all of the letters  That has been very important to me in my journey as I try to learn/experience/experiment to find out who I am from within. I have participated in Gay Men's events and groups and in Transgender events and groups. It has been helpful. For me, the boundaries are not so clear. Am I a feminine bi man? A MTF transsexual with bi leanings? Am I attracted to women or do I envy them? And so on. and on.

So, I guess, to me although some gays are uncomfortable with my femininity at the center, for the most part I have been supported and respected; and I see connections in the LGBTQ grouping as well as differences.

Kendall

I saw a gay guy make this comment about a little transgirl:
I think people get this mixed up, she is a he. Im not being disrespectful. Im gay and in the gay community 'she' would be a 'he'
Until he gets his penis surgically removed he will be a boy. Im gay so dont think for a second im homophobic

It made me so mad. Its like he was saying hes entitled to say shes a he because hes gay
Gay people can be just as clueless as straight people if not more. They can be like "get those freaks out of our support system"

Actually, the reason it's there is because people like me get out and make it part of it.  The reason it will not get out of there is that the people who really don't like it are not going to do much about it other than bitch on the internet.  I win.

I wish T would just be by itself cause I'm a transgender for a reason. I would prefer to be considered in the heterosexual catergory but that is my opinion because I'm straight. Anyways, I don't see much LG supporting us so why should we be listed among them.

Quote from: accord03 on June 24, 2010, 05:40:51 AM
I wish T would just be by itself cause I'm a transgender for a reason. I would prefer to be considered in the heterosexual catergory but that is my opinion because I'm straight. Anyways, I don't see much LG supporting us so why should we be listed among them.

Your trans because you want to be straight?

I'm trans because I'm a guy (straight aswell) so I don't be linked to homosexuals. I've already had enough trying to transition and people thinking trans are homosexuals who are just trying to fit into society I don't want things linking to homosexuals cause it's like validating their point.

Ok, it just sounded like you were only transitioning to been seen as straight.

QuoteI saw a gay guy make this comment about a little transgirl:
I think people get this mixed up, she is a he. Im not being disrespectful. Im gay and in the gay community 'she' would be a 'he'
Until he gets his penis surgically removed he will be a boy. Im gay so dont think for a second im homophobic

It made me so mad. Its like he was saying hes entitled to say shes a he because hes gay
Gay people can be just as clueless as straight people if not more. They can be like "get those freaks out of our support system"

I know a gay gentlemen that I've overheard talking about trans people as "trying to hard" to act like their identified gender. On the other hand, there is a GG we all know who constantly wears pink, has super girly and pink items in her hair, has a super high pitched voice, is very femininely animated when she talks and expresses herself -- she's like a cartoon character of femaleness -- and nobody thinks twice about it. It's viewed as a cute and accepted part of her personality because she's cis. If she were trans, people would judge.

I've often wondered if gay rights are where black rights were 30 years ago and trans rights are where gay rights were 30 years ago. The gay community overall has done a lot to help our movement, and we've been tied since Stonewall, but sometimes it feels like we really are the red-headed stepchild.

Quote from: Amy on June 19, 2010, 07:52:47 AM
I really don't understand why there's a T in LGBT. Being transgendered has nothing to do with sexuality, and I think it makes the whole issue more confusing for everyone to understand. Whenever I tell other people about being transgendered they always question my sexuality, which is partly due to this. Although I am bisexual it's got nothing to do with me being transgendered.

The lesbian, gay and bisexual parts are all connected, and to me, the transgendered part is unrelated.

we are so few in number and power...i don't believe there is an easy answer...but we do need all the friends we can get, and our issues are similar in many cases...

the downside is that you are right in that a T persons situation is totally and completely different from a persons sexuality...of course, some of us have sexuality issues as we go through life as well...hehe

In social and cultural terms there are a lot of differences between gay and lesbian people.  They are also different from bi people.  Trans people are in a different category because so many of us have more than one of those letters.  We are T&L or T&G or T&Bi or T & Straight. 

We have many more things in common than we have differences, however.  A very large part of the trans community is lesbian, gay or bi.  Large numbers of gay lesbian and bisexual identified people also violate gender norms and stereotypes.  Cissexual butch lesbians and femme gay men all get discriminated against for the same reasons that transgender, transsexual and intersex people are discriminated against.  The similarities between the various sections of the community outweigh and outnumber the differences.  The lines of demarcation are so blurred as to be irrelevant. 

Lesbians had to fight for inclusion back in the '70's.  Bisexual people had to fight for inclusion after that and trans people are still fighting for inclusion.  That said, these divisions only have meaning within our community and the educated portion of the general public.  For all too many people, trans men and women are just very very very gay and because of that, as Jenny Boylan once said, we are all together in this fight because "we get beat up by the same people."

In other words, while there are cultural and social differences, we also have a lot of commonalities and, for sure, politically we are all in the same boat.  Focus on the Family and their ilk could care less about the internal divisions within our community unless it's to use them against us (witness the effort against ENDA that concentrated on trans people and ignore GLB people).  Most people don't even know about them, or care to fo that matter.

The reasons behind our political oppression are all too similar as to justify emphasizing the differences between the various groups within our community.  We need also to acknowledge the fact that self-limiting attitudes play right into the hands of our political opponents who love nothing more than to see fractures in a political front that needs to be unified against their hateful animosity.  There's a T in LGBT because the reality is that you can't honestly separate them.

I'm not too sure about that Emelye. I HATE when people use the term 'LGBT.' Growing up, every always assumed I was 'gay' and called me that, and it really sucked.

Yes we have some similarities, but everyone has similarities with between each other. Almost every group you can think of, whether it be religious, racial, ethnicity, etc, have been politically oppressed at some time. Should we just lump all these groups together?

Sure we violate gender norms, like many GL's do, but everyone has both masculine and feminine traits, and everyone does it for different reasons.

GL's don't even like us most of the time, so why should we turn to them?

This GLBT business REALLY needs to stop.

The T in GLBT = Transgender
Not Transsexual.
Transsexual are a "sub set" of Transgender.

As much as some of us would like to, we cannot separate the T from the GLB.  Not that it was very possible before but by now, I think it's impossible and I think that's a good thing.  We will always have divisions and sometimes they will cause conflict.  We are a much stronger community, however, especially in political terms, when we stick together.

Yes, there are GLB transphobes out there just as there are trans homophobes.  Separating the community won't ever change that, however, unless it's to make it more prevalent.  By being involved and showing the haters - hetero or homo - that we are decent human beings who have rights as well as they and are able and willing to contribute to the common cause, will go a long way to make sure the dinosaurs die out and that new 'phobes won't be "born."