I was so disappointed to read this from a prominent and 'proud' MtF person the other day:

"I am as hetrosexual <sic> as the next guy"

(emphasis on 'guy')
I wanted to ignore it by thinking she was just trying to be 'stealth' but the identity she tries to show on the WWW is completely different.  Many other people treat her with much respect in the online community.  I won't name names of course. 

The quoted comment was a follow-on from a public newspaper article in which the person appeared enhomme talking about GLBT rights.  However, from what I read on the net about this person, they've had every opportunity to transition (acceptance, job etc).

What hope does the TG community have if our 'ambassadors' act like this?

Everyone has their opinion.  I have mine.  What I did worked for me.  That's all I need to know.  It will be twenty years this coming March.  And I must say that I have NEVER had any regrets. 

Cindi

Quote from: Tinkerbell on November 18, 2006, 11:01:38 PM

I find it trite and offensive that other transsexuals will label a pre-operative MTF transsexual "a man" just because she has not had SRS.

tinkerbell

I've always looked at it like some sort of TG pyramid with the post-ops being at the top, like its a way to marginalize those less then post-op.  Worse yet it places too much of the burden of our sense of ourselves on being post-op as if that's we're less then human until then.

To the world at large, we're all the same shade of freak.

QuoteI've always looked at it like some sort of TG pyramid with the post-ops being at the top, like its a way to marginalize those less then post-op.

I've run into a few too many people who act as though a hierarchy exists with post op at the top and crossdresser at the bottom. Grrrrr! This kind of thing makes me mad.

zythyra

Quote from: zythyra on November 19, 2006, 03:33:30 PM

QuoteI've always looked at it like some sort of TG pyramid with the post-ops being at the top, like its a way to marginalize those less then post-op.

I've run into a few too many people who act as though a hierarchy exists with post op at the top and crossdresser at the bottom. Grrrrr! This kind of thing makes me mad.

zythyra

To be fair though, we just as easily accept the hierarchy and see GRS as the holy grail.  Am I the only one that's seen GRS groupies at support group meetings?

Quote from: Refugee on November 19, 2006, 03:38:28 PM
Am I the only one that's seen GRS groupies at support group meetings?

No you're not.  I've always said that sometimes all of this reminds me of highschool, ....the nerds sitting together in one end, the cheerleaders in the middle, the thinkers there, the quiet ones here, the football players on the other end..............do you get the picture?

The irony is that no matter how hard we try to include or exclude one another from a particular group, we are all being cooked at the same time in society's pot.


tinkerbell

That's right tinkerbell, that's ummm "ahhh" me they could be referring to?
Boo Hoo my lady side is gonna cry now!
I've had my share of bad exeriences with transitioned folks who somehow just stopped associating because they either portrayed that they were better or no longer need me?
weird!
I'll be curious as well to see this one unmasked!
Gettem Tinkerbell!
Ricki

While it is understandable why a post-op TS may want to live in stealth, and shies away from the TG community, it does not make them Lords and Ladies of the Realm.

Personally, I do tend to give a little more respect to those who have been living their true gender longer than I have (regardless of TS-pre or post, Androgyne, Crossdresser or whatever) because they have gone through more than I have, however, it doesn't mean that they are any better than I am.  Kind of a "respect your elders" thing, where elder is not based on age, but rather issues faced.

I also am curious who this bozo is.

Quote from: Tinkerbell on September 01, 2006, 05:52:18 PM
I find it trite and offensive that other transsexuals will label a pre-operative MTF transsexual "a man" just because she has not had SRS.

Dad-gum straight!!!  (It's hard to express the proper words while keeping my language "G Rated")  There are a million reasons why a transsexual has not had (or may never have) SRS...until you become them and live their life, you have no right to criticize or treat them with anything less than respect.

Spitting nails.....Laurie

Quote from: LaurieOWhile it is understandable why a post-op TS may want to live in stealth, and shies away from the TG community, it does not make them Lords and Ladies of the Realm.

it doesn't?  because I was planning to crown myself as a Lady of Realm after my SRS  >

Quote from: LaurieOI also am curious who this bozo is.

Hmmm...no names under my rules  ....      all I am going to say is that we are all the same as far as  transsexuals are concerned, pre-, non, post, FTM, MTF.

tinkerbell

It's just group dynamics.  That's all it is.  Put any group of people together for a short period of time and you will see similar behaviours.  There will be leaders and followers.  There will be cliuques and there will be loners. There will always be a cruel element as well.  There will be those who want no organization and those that do.  That's what makes life interesting!



Cindi

Now I can recognize that to a certain extent those who have transitioned completely would want to consider themselves a full male or female, but its important to not break off communication with those you have met along the way. I hope that the people who move though this site are forming friendships and not just looking for a few kind words to help them deal then disgard us all when they've used us as much as they needed to.

-Us

Quote from: Marq and Mia on November 20, 2006, 02:02:14 AM

Now I can recognize that to a certain extent those who have transitioned completely would want to consider themselves a full male or female, but its important to not break off communication with those you have met along the way. I hope that the people who move though this site are forming friendships and not just looking for a few kind words to help them deal then disgard us all when they've used us as much as they needed to.

-Us

If you've seen Transgeneration, two of the MtFs profiled ended up breaking off their friendship.  They grew apart,it happens in all of society.  I don't feel any obligation to stay friends with someone just becuase they're TS.  Its no different then when well meaning people try to play matchmaker for two GLBT people who's only connection is their queerness.

Yeah I was reading another post somewhere about completing a transition and then attempting to live as normal a life as possible in stealth. I recognize that its important for each of us to determine at what level they wish to stay involved in the community. Staying around to help others is not going to be for everyone since many just want to get on with their life and not have to relive the difficulties all over again through other peoples experiences.

Of course anyone that does stay around to act as mentors for those just starting or going through big changes are always appreciated but I understand that role is not going to suit us all. People are going to put as much or take as much from the community as they want or need to, and it should be different for everyone.

Marq and Mia

When I find a strong opinion that I don't agree with, I smile and back away.  Everyone has a different perspective and as long as it doesn't cause any violence, they are entitled.

Cindi

I agree with Cindy.  Group dynamics will always take effect in any group of people, it's unavoidable.  Personally I have yet to meet a post-op person who thought they were better than me or better than anyone else, in fact most have been very gracious, and it's disingenuous of us to start painting post-ops with broad paint brushes just because of a couple of, shall we say, "Bad apples".  Certainly there will be post-ops with attitude good bad and otherwise, just as there are pre-ops who think along the same lines, so why on earth get your panties in a knot.

Finally we need to quote sources for our topics if that source is the basis of the topic, otherwise it is just hearsay and should be treated as such.

Quote from: hannahrichterI was so disappointed to read this from a prominent and 'proud' MtF person the other day:

"I am as hetrosexual <sic> as the next guy"

(emphasis on 'guy')
I wanted to ignore it by thinking she was just trying to be 'stealth' but the identity she tries to show on the WWW is completely different.  Many other people treat her with much respect in the online community.  I won't name names of course. 

The quoted comment was a follow-on from a public newspaper article in which the person appeared enhomme talking about GLBT rights.  However, from what I read on the net about this person, they've had every opportunity to transition (acceptance, job etc).

What hope does the TG community have if our 'ambassadors' act like this?

If this information is public knowledge then there is no problem with naming this person and the article sources should be named as well.

Steph

Ok, let's really put a twist on this then. I know you are all talking TS and I am IS, but I still can't afford GRS much the same as some TS' can't. Saying this, I have a uterus, an overy as well as a testis (not 2 as I should have), natural growing breasts (B cup) with no HRT and a partial opening below my penis area with a highly sensitive spot above it. I would like to see this person or anyone with the same beliefs to try to define me male since I can't afford GRS and won't have it done unless we convince the government to pay for it through our medicare system here. If I am not women then I must be an ogre since I can't possibly be male either.    And I do not think any less of any one of my sisters in here just because of their position on this supposed pyramid thingy, not everyone can afford the ultimate dream. 

Quote from: Kim on November 25, 2006, 01:01:08 PM
Ok, let's really put a twist on this then. I know you are all talking TS and I am IS, but I still can't afford GRS much the same as some TS' can't. Saying this, I have a uterus, an overy as well as a testis (not 2 as I should have), natural growing breasts (B cup) with no HRT and a partial opening below my penis area with a highly sensitive spot above it. I would like to see this person or anyone with the same beliefs to try to define me male since I can't afford GRS and won't have it done unless we convince the government to pay for it through our medicare system here. If I am not women then I must be an ogre since I can't possibly be male either.    And I do not think any less of any one of my sisters in here just because of their position on this supposed pyramid thingy, not everyone can afford the ultimate dream. 

Amen!

tinkerbell

Hopefully this person is a small percentage of what we are not about or like...
I respect what people want and want to do.
I have been on sites where once transitioned poeple quietly left and went away and i respected that..
I followed a site years back and some of the biggest complainers and so called advocates after transitioning did not bothered by anyone?  That to me was a double standard they endorsed all the things we spoke of asked for help and communication and enjoyed everyones conversation and all the while acted as part of something, then when their transition was comlete they were done with the group?  I did not really allow myself to be bothered by that but after a while i had emailed the one lady with some issues and asking her for help and she replied that she was basically on a higher level now and she did not want to look back or be bothered?
hmmm I thoguht and it seemed for over a year she was one of the more active aggressors and seekers of help and support?
I guess if she came off like i need help to my destination but once there i will be done with you people she would not have gotten as much help or support?
i do understand though that after major changes like this people do change and must move on sometimes...
ricki

I think some people have not understood my first post. This individual is not a postop but  MtoF preop.

What made me so ashamed of this person is  they have every chance to transition: acceptance, family, job, support usw
BUT yet they are so proud of being a "quasi-public figure" male  (appearing as male at GLBT rallies, newspapers, blogs and covered by many news networks on the WWW)
I know I read in other parts of the site about "pseudo-transexuals". Maybe this person is one. I dont know.  They certainly "talk the talk" on the WWW on their very popular transgender website. 

For those who have to struggle daily with being accepted for who we truly are, it is very hard to take and depressing to see such people being such hypocrites.