So what's the answer to the question?  Does it hurt us (the community) when we live in stealth?

Anyone for having a TG Coming Out Day?

Julie

PS: I think this thread has proven without a doubt we may all be TS but we are all different.  A term or phrase means one thing to one person and a very different thing to another.  At least we can agree to disagree.

I think that the short answer is "no".  Honestly, for each individual, I believe that living in stealth is very healthy. At some point, we need to get on with our lives. 

Cindi

Quote from: Lori on November 22, 2006, 03:52:36 PM
Most 300lb women do Not have a transsexual history therefore dont have the prejudice against them for their sex or gender. Society may shun them for being obese, but not for who they are or who they are trying to represent. They still look like women, not 300lb fat men in dresses. Thats a double strike in society.

My biggest point is you dont put your worst representatives forward to represent your group, yet with transsexuality you cannot expect the ones that are living in stealth to out themselves and put their lives and carreers in danger to represent you. If they are in stealth then obviously they pass and nobody that doesn need to know has any clue to thier past. And in passing they show no male features because society is not clueless. I dont blame them for hiding out and not wanting to be Transsexual or associated with transsexuals. I dont want to be one either. I want to be a woman. That means I want to look like one. I dont want any male features. Most women dont. And I will go in stealth and I may help those I can online but I sure am not going to organize a march on society and spearhead any kind of movement, and I sure dont want "women" in dresses that still look like men with beards and vaginas doing it for me either.


There are boyish girls, and big girls and tall girls but they dont have a history of being male. If you want to fit into society as a woman then you need to act and look like the general population of women and the general population of women are concerned about beauty and looking pretty. A woman has her beauty.

                I would think, because of the definition of a MtF transsexual, "a woman born in a male body" it is up to society to accept those that may never fit the perfect female presentation. It is not up  to the transsexual to try to fit into an artificial mold that the superficial part of society believes they should fit. A transsexual is never a man in a dress, she is a woman in a mans body.  That is her definition. If you want to distance yourself from her that is your choice but do not ever put the blame on her for not fulfilling your expectations.


beth

I only have one final question for those who are so adament that they are now woman and NOT transexuals. WHY are you hanging around transexual formums? when you claim to no longer be transexual! If you say its because your trying to help, then perhaps you should reread some of your posts and consider the hurt that you might very well be inflicting by OVER Emphasizing how important it is to look pretty etc etc etc.  If you truly are so Super Passable then get on with your life and stop beating up on those poor souls who are full of self doubt about their presentation to society. I may not pass 100% of the time, but I do well enough to live my life as a woman and make a living for myself.

Brina

Well when the day comes that it not socially exceptable to discriminate, hurt, rape, maim, not give them proper medical care, fire them from thier jobs, or families realize its something that cannot be helped and stop turning against them, Then I will worry about making a presence. When it is illegal to discriminate against the transgendered community then I find it is just safer to try to fit in.

Maybe the gay community got where they are because of numbers, or because they got tired of having to hide and came out in force. Perhaps that is what transsexuals need to do, but if a group was picked to go to fight for rights in congress, I would want the best representative that had the best chance of being heard.

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 22, 2006, 03:54:48 PM

Anyone for having a TG Coming Out Day?

There already is one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Coming_Out_Day It's on October 11th of every year.  Coincidentally I came out to my wife (first person) on that day last year before I ever knew that day existed.

Melissa

Quote from: brina on November 22, 2006, 05:09:13 PM
I only have one final question for those who are so adament that they are now woman and NOT transexuals. WHY in hell are you hanging around transexual formums? when you claim to no longer be transexual!

I never claimed not to be TS to this group; that would be ridiculous. I'm post-op, lucky to pass well and live mostly in stealth... however, there are ongoing matters that I find valuable to discuss with other post-op women particularly regarding HRT. These issues can't be discussed elsewhere except for forums such as these where you can draw on other's experiences.

If I can offer advice and help to others, then I will but there are plenty of us here to do that.

To me, it's about not wanting to identify myself as TS to the world at large or more importantly, many of the circles I move in. I see no need to get upset or angry with us because this is what we have chosen.

Quote from: beth on November 22, 2006, 04:24:46 PM
It is not up to the transsexual to try to fit into an artificial mold that the superficial part of society believes they should fit.

beth

Yes Beth, the problem is not us, it's society.  While we are diagnosed with GID the reality is society has GID.  They think we all fall into one of two categories.  It's like saying there is black and white and all the other colors are mutations.  Black and white wouldn't exist without the rest of the rainbow.

Julie

QuoteTo me, it's about not wanting to identify myself as TS to the world at large or more importantly, many of the circles I move in. I see no need to get upset or angry with us because this is what we have chosen.

Have you read this thread?  No one cares if you are stealth or anything else. What we are angry about is ill informed superficial people who have said in this very thread that a person who identifies as transsexual and has had SRS "is just a man in a dress with a vagina" based solely on their looks. That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.


beth

Quote from: beth on November 22, 2006, 05:37:14 PM
Have you read this thread?

I have. Twice.

I was only specifically answering the question that was posed as it pertained to me, hoping perhaps to give Brina some insight into my motivations, not anyone else's. And to also to help this thread remain vaguely on topic without it descending further into a morass of ugly flaming, something which your discourteous response to me hasn't furthered.

Quote from: Stormy Weather on November 22, 2006, 05:48:29 PM

Quote from: beth on November 22, 2006, 05:37:14 PM
Have you read this thread?

I have. Twice.

I was only specifically answering the question that was posed as it pertained to me, hoping perhaps to give Brina some insight into my motivations, not anyone else's. And to also to help this thread remain vaguely on topic without it descending further into a morass of ugly flaming, something which your discourteous response to me hasn't furthered.

                     You asked why everyone was angry. I let you know it had nothing to do with you. I did not mean to be discourtious to you and if I was I apologize. I do not believe calling a statement ill informed and ignorant is flaming.  I am sorry if we disagree regarding that.


beth

Perhaps I've inadvertently strayed into some crossfire... and by directly replying to someone, have drawn some of that upon myself.

I so much wanted to keep out of this argument but wanted to contribute in some way without touching on some very raw nerves that are evident in this thread. I also have thoughts on the matter but am particularly concerned about not upsetting people, particularly as I am new to this forum.

Quote from: Stormy Weather on November 22, 2006, 06:02:19 PM
Perhaps I've inadvertently strayed into some crossfire... and by directly replying to someone, have drawn some of that upon myself.

I so much wanted to keep out of this argument but wanted to contribute in some way without touching on some very raw nerves that are evident in this thread. I also have thoughts on the matter but am particularly concerned about not upsetting people, particularly as I am new to this forum.

                 I apologize further for being so harsh. Some of the statements made here and agreed to by others have upset me and I thank you for pointing that out to me, I will try to be more polite. You are very welcome to put forth your ideas just as everyone is.


again I am sorry

beth

^Hey, that's OK! No biggie.

Just being ultra-cautious when a mod comes on a little heavy... it always takes a wee while to feel things out and get the lie of the land in a new forum.

Here, have one of my choccies.

(I like to recover from hospital in a little style...)

Hiee Stormy,

  I have gone back and re-read the entire thread and can say that my post was not directed at you. I get quite passionate at times and over speak.

Byee,
  Brina

Welll all I can say is WOW!!! As long as I've been here, this thread is the most heated 
one I've seen. I won't jump in , mainly because I really have no idea what stealth is.It may sound dumb. But, here I have only met one other Tgirl. We have no support groups ( wedid and it went out before I came out of denial)
So, all I know is what I've learned here. So, keep on ,matbe I'll finally catch on.

                                   Jennifer

Quote from: JenniferElizabeth on November 22, 2006, 10:46:51 PM
Welll all I can say is WOW!!! As long as I've been here, this thread is the most heated 
one I've seen. I won't jump in , mainly because I really have no idea what stealth is.It may sound dumb. But, here I have only met one other Tgirl. We have no support groups ( wedid and it went out before I came out of denial)
So, all I know is what I've learned here. So, keep on ,matbe I'll finally catch on.

                                   Jennifer

We're all learning here, so don't feel bad about it .  Please take a second to read the the following article.

Also please feel free to explore our wiki which contains wonderful articles on tg-related issues.  Take care Jennifer!


tinkerbell

For what it is worth, I never really knew what "stealth" or "going dark" was until I checked into this forum last summer.  Back when I did my transition, we called it "checking out" or "disappearing".  Times and vernacular have changed.

Tink, I just read the article you referenced.  Very interesting indeed!  I am totally out to my family, my husband, my closest two friends (who are also trans people), and of course here in my internet incarnation.  I've been totally up front with everyone here that I use the name of my dog on the internet.  Should anyone wish to do any digging at all, they could discover my real identity in about 20 minutes.  Shoot, I published a book about myself!  Yet even with this publicity, I still lead a life sheltered from TS'dom here in my community.  No one knows and I attempt to live a life as a normal woman.  Is that living in stealth?  Is that pretending to be someone I am not?  Am I doing anything that ultimately hurts any of my dear sisters attempting to struggle with the very issues that nearly killed me years ago?  Am I flaunting my hard earned abilities to pass by pretending to want to help others?

Let me tell you folks, I still look in the mirror and see the same face, albeit older and more wrinkled, that I did 25 years ago.  She ain't gettin any prettier that's for sure.  I haven't had expensive surgeries. I'm not any shorter and I still have broad shoulders and a skinny derriere. I do my best to look as nice as I can.  Although I do wear a masculine work habit, I style my hair and have a nice feminine cut. I've worked hard with my voice and my presentation. It is now naturally part of me. I do not get clocked.  I no longer get chased.  I don't get the cat calls and embarassing comments and snickers.  I will sometimes get called sir from behind due to my still masculine build. I quickly take the opportunity to introduce myself and the issue is resolved immediately. My little town and community accepts me for who I am.... a hard working and fun loving woman. 

If I have offended any with my remarks, I humbly apologize for that was not my intent. I am truly here to help. If you don't know me, ask anyone who has been here a while. I feel totally comfortable in anyone explaining to anyone else just what "Cindi is like".

Some of these threads can get a bit heated. Sure we don't want to hurt feelings. But sometimes these subjects need to be discussed. Every opinion is welcome.  And you know what?  Differing opinions make life  more interesting. So keep on posting!

Cindi

Quote from: Cindianna_Jones on November 23, 2006, 12:43:42 AM
For what it is worth, I never really knew what "stealth" or "going dark" was until I checked into this forum last summer.  Back when I did my transition, we called it "checking out" or "disappearing".  Times and vernacular have changed.

Tink, I just read the article you referenced.  Very interesting indeed!  I am totally out to my family, my husband, my closest two friends (who are also trans people), and of course here in my internet incarnation.  I've been totally up front with everyone here that I use the name of my dog on the internet.  Should anyone wish to do any digging at all, they could discover my real identity in about 20 minutes.  Shoot, I published a book about myself!  Yet even with this publicity, I still lead a life sheltered from TS'dom here in my community.  No one knows and I attempt to live a life as a normal woman.  Is that living in stealth?  Is that pretending to be someone I am not?  Am I doing anything that ultimately hurts any of my dear sisters attempting to struggle with the very issues that nearly killed me years ago?  Am I flaunting my hard earned abilities to pass by pretending to want to help others?

Let me tell you folks, I still look in the mirror and see the same face, albeit older and more wrinkled, that I did 25 years ago.  She ain't gettin any prettier that's for sure.  I haven't had expensive surgeries. I'm not any shorter and I still have broad shoulders and a skinny derriere. I do my best to look as nice as I can.  Although I do wear a masculine work habit, I style my hair and have a nice feminine cut. I've worked hard with my voice and my presentation. It is now naturally part of me. I do not get clocked.  I no longer get chased.  I don't get the cat calls and embarassing comments and snickers.  I will sometimes get called sir from behind due to my still masculine build. I quickly take the opportunity to introduce myself and the issue is resolved immediately. My little town and community accepts me for who I am.... a hard working and fun loving woman. 

If I have offended any with my remarks, I humbly apologize for that was not my intent. I am truly here to help. If you don't know me, ask anyone who has been here a while. I feel totally comfortable in anyone explaining to anyone else just what "Cindi is like".

Some of these threads can get a bit heated. Sure we don't want to hurt feelings. But sometimes these subjects need to be discussed. Every opinion is welcome.  And you know what?  Differing opinions make life  more interesting. So keep on posting!

Cindi

I am very fortunate to have met a person like you, and I'm sure many people in these forums feel the same way, angel in disguise!

tinkerbell

All I have to say on this topic today on this Day of Thanks is that thank God we have a place that we can disagree without being disagreeable.

I also want to say if anything I said offended anyone or made them angry, I apologize. We are all in this together, community is far more important than winning an argument.

Happy and Blessed Thansgiving Everyone