Quote from: Cowboi on August 05, 2010, 03:41:14 AM
Somehow I feel left out. I don't have a phantom penis. I do have a good fantasy penis when it comes to sexual situations, but that is something that takes concentration, not something that just happens naturally.

As a secondary statement, I also never feel the need to wear a packer. I use mine perhaps 2 or 3 times a year. It has never mattered to me at all with exceptions of the random days where I actually feel bad about not having a penis.

This thread kind of makes me curious about rather or not these two things are connected. It seems like a lot of you guys who do have the phantom penis also LOVE your packers, lol.

I basically feel like this, except I don't have a packer. 

I totally reject the idea that we have past lives as there aren't enough past people to go round...but one thing that might be worthwhile thinking about is: the possibility that some of you were genitally intersexed babies who were 'made right' and as its easier to chop of bits of male and make a vagina most babies seem to have ended up as girls but then they find that really they were males all along.
No-one seems to know how many thousands of these babies have been operated on over the years but it is still being done today even though no-one can know if any intersexed new baby will want to be male or female.
But if you have been having periods this will not apply.

You are, of course, entitled to your view on past lives, lilacwoman.  Personally, I remain agnostic on the subject.

As for being a "secret" intersex baby, that doesn't apply.  I have a fully functioning female body with two healthy children to prove it.  And I would be extremely surprised that the number of transmen apparently experiencing this phenomenon reflect the number of unacknowledged intersex babies.  But I may be wrong.

Not intersex, get the phantom penis, don't pack.

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 05, 2010, 12:05:41 PM
I totally reject the idea that we have past lives as there aren't enough past people to go round.

ah, but there are old souls and new souls on this earth.  That being said I don't have a firm opinion either way.

But that is a whole different topic.

I kind of feel it sometimes, but its quite brief and one of those things you're not quite sure if it really happened or not.  Don't pack much, but I do once or twice a week when i go to jiu jitsu at the very least.

Quote from: Papillon on August 05, 2010, 05:45:15 AMWhich brings me onto a related but slightly OT subject.  Just like the phantom penis phenomenon, my feelings of gender identity are like memories of having been male.  They are not so much "I should have a male body" but "I used to have a male body" and that, like grieving, I am finding it difficult to adapt to the fact that this is no longer the case.  Does anyone else get this?

Yes I had that too.

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 05, 2010, 12:05:41 PM
I totally reject the idea that we have past lives as there aren't enough past people to go round...but one thing that might be worthwhile thinking about is: the possibility that some of you were genitally intersexed babies who were 'made right' and as its easier to chop of bits of male and make a vagina most babies seem to have ended up as girls but then they find that really they were males all along.
No-one seems to know how many thousands of these babies have been operated on over the years but it is still being done today even though no-one can know if any intersexed new baby will want to be male or female.
But if you have been having periods this will not apply.

I think we would see or feel scars then. No scars in my case, so no unwanted surgery.

I have a phantom penis.  I didn't know anyone else experienced the same thing until I read this.  I mostly just experience it when I'm aroused.

i have it, i used to feel it a lot more often, but years of denial kinda made it less sensate. lately it's been coming back a bit more, and i can even sortof feel it when i touch it during certain "activities". it could be my imagination, but that's ok too 

also: the likelihood that i have had past lives is far greater than the likelihood that i was actually born intersex

I haven't had my phantom penis in quite some time, probably because I pack all the time except in the shower. At least...I don't ever feel like something is there and then reach down to find that nothing is. When I feel that something is there, it's because something is there.

Wow, that sounds kinda stupid. But you know what I mean, I hope.

I must say I've never seen any mention of phantom penisses in any trans studies written either for or against TSism.
So maybe some researcher should take it up?

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 06, 2010, 02:17:58 AM
I must say I've never seen any mention of phantom penisses in any trans studies written either for or against TSism.
So maybe some researcher should take it up?

Definitely. And also the other phantom stuff, like phantom beard, phantom muscles, phantom breasts etc. This not being found in trans studies in my opinion shows that the researchers don't listen to us or take us seriously.

Quote from: Papillon on August 05, 2010, 05:45:15 AMThey are not so much "I should have a male body" but "I used to have a male body" and that, like grieving, I am finding it difficult to adapt to the fact that this is no longer the case.  Does anyone else get this?

The worlds that I lived in were completely real to me. As teenage boys, I had adolescent bodies and was loved and taken care of by my dad and my two daddies. As male adults, I had mature bodies and essentially fathered myself...myselves? My gay dad was hands off--we never had sex--but my two daddies were all over me. I miss that more than I can express. As some folks here have observed, the mind is a powerful sex organ.

My experiences might not even come close to what it's "really" like to live in a typical male body, but I do have tons of memories about what it was like to live in MY male bodies.

After two years of living without my other worlds, I think I can safely say that the worst of the grieving is over. But I still have times during which I mourn for what I no longer have. And I still have the memories and the yearning. I miss my men. One of them (I'll call him D) recently morphed himself into a person who could come into this world and offer me support, but the environment and our relationship have changed so much that he's like a different person. Everything's so different that we're having to make up new rules. And my current body is so unlike the body I used to have in that arc that I sometimes have bizarre moments of disjunction between fantasy and reality. It's not a phantom penis experience; I suppose it's best described as a phantom body experience. As a child, I learned very quickly to keep fantasy and reality separate, so I'm not used to this kind of crossover with D or with me.

I want and need to be the boy again. But as my dad very sensibly reminds me, that boy was just a holding pattern, a way to stay sane. He does not exist anymore except in my memories, and I now have to move forward and grow into a man in my current body.

I'm grateful that D is here. I'm especially grateful that he's not one of the ones I had sex with; that would be unbearable. I still wish I could go back to the old way of living. But something inside me keeps me here, in the real world. Two years ago, that part of me realized that unless my men cut me loose, I would never transition, and I would end my life prematurely or wind up living in an empty husk of a female body with a twisted or absent mind.

I guess I feel safe enough and grounded enough to have a modified version of D in my life now. But I miss what he used to be, and I miss what I used to be when I was with him.

On phantom genitalia: I don't know exactly what it's like to have a phantom limb, not being an amputee. I hesitate to insist that what I have is exactly the same experience. But I do have...something...that's not exactly under the category of dysphoria - a sensation not only that something ought to be there, but that something is there. It was really hard to explain (or even understand) as a child exactly why it was that I was so terribly uncomfortable with pants, tights, or leggings that were tight in the pelvic area, or ways of sitting/walking that crowded that area, especially right over my pubic bone. Not just "I don't want things pressing uncomfortably hard there" but "I need lots of space" (for what? air?) It's a strangely physical sensation of discomfort, even though I can't quite locate it on my actual body.

It's really odd/disorienting though because I can't locate it. It's really hard to describe, because it feels like external discomfort, but it also feels like it's located somewhere inside me. Any attempt to verbalize it ends up not making any sense. It's not in the same place, exactly, as where I get the phantom sympathy pains from seeing a guy get kicked in the balls - that's pretty clearly located deep in my abdomen/radiating outward. But it's related to that place in some way that I can't describe.

As this phantom genitals seems to be quite a common thing and is the opposite of the lack of belonging that MtFs feel maybe we should all try contacting the researchers we know and get some input?
I have a fairly direct line to one European researcher and I have a friend who has line to a US one so I'll try get their ideas on this phantom business.

an interesting read with a very interesting tidbit of information in the last paragraph of page 1
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1648

QuoteThe survey showed that aside from the fact that male-to-female transsexuals were less likely to report the phenomenon of a phantom penis than heterosexuals, 60 per cent of female-to-male transsexuals interviewed reported the sensation of phantom penises since early childhood

"less likely to report the phenomenon of a phantom penis than heterosexuals"

...this confuses me

by "heterosexuals" do they mean cis-people?

Interesting article!  Thanks for posting it.

I think that in the context of the article, "heterosexuals" refers to cissexual heterosexual men (whose penises have been amputated).

QuoteExperts at the University of California in San Diego, USA, found that 60 per cent of interviewed heterosexual men who had their genitals surgically removed following cancer claimed to continue to experience the sensation of having a penis. . . Intriguingly, the same study showed that only 30 per cent of originally male transsexuals, whose genitals had been removed as part of gender reassignment, reported the same phenomenon. . . .  60 per cent of female-to-male transsexuals interviewed reported the sensation of phantom penises since early childhood.

So, in this study, FTMs had the same rate of phantom penises as cis-male amputees.  Interesting.

Ah yes, reading the article properly instead of skimming it made it make a lot more sense Still weird that they chose the word "heterosexuals" to mean the amputated men

Okay while I agree that there obviously is a phantom penis phenomenon going on I do not think that what everyone here is describing is actually a phantom penis at all.

For example, when aroused you may feel slightly like there is something there to get hard or excited... because your clitoris has the same sensations. It does often become hard, it twitches, it moves, etc. I don't hear a lot of people saying that when they get sexual excited they can feel a penis laying across their abdomen or things like that. The sensation that it is "standing" or "hard" is easily explained by the physical reaction of the clit.

The discomfort in pants that are tight can be caused by several things outside of a phantom penis as well. A lot of people have discomfort in clothes that fit a certain way, it can be as simple as a personal preference in the way they hang on or hug your body. I personally like pants that fit but aren't tight for several reasons.
-I sweat A LOT.
-If the crotch is too tight it can rub against or pull at my pubic hair (even through underwear).
-Sometimes they feel crowded or too tight.
-Often the seams will rub against my legs and create a sore spot from the friction.

None of these things that bother me about tight pants have anything to do with a phantom penis. They are normal. I don't feel that the crotch of the pants is hugging my dick to tight, or that my penis has to lay a certain way in them that causes discomfort.

So unless you actually have the phenomenon of FEELING that a penis is there through ideas like it is laying against your body somehow I don't really think that the phantom penis theory fits completely. It kind of seems like some of the responses are just things that can be explained easily and accurately with your body as it is, with or without a phantom limb of sorts.

It may not be a happy thing for some people to hear but some of these things just are not related to a phantom penis at all. A lot of it is natural body reactions, personal preferences and just flat out fantasy. I'm certain some people do have an actual phantom penis sensation, I am sure that many of the people who have posted here do have them, however I think that some of the responses can be explained with reason rather than this theory.

Quote from: Cowboi on August 06, 2010, 08:49:23 PM
Okay while I agree that there obviously is a phantom penis phenomenon going on I do not think that what everyone here is describing is actually a phantom penis at all.

For example, when aroused you may feel slightly like there is something there to get hard or excited... because your clitoris has the same sensations. It does often become hard, it twitches, it moves, etc. I don't hear a lot of people saying that when they get sexual excited they can feel a penis laying across their abdomen or things like that. The sensation that it is "standing" or "hard" is easily explained by the physical reaction of the clit.

The discomfort in pants that are tight can be caused by several things outside of a phantom penis as well. A lot of people have discomfort in clothes that fit a certain way, it can be as simple as a personal preference in the way they hang on or hug your body. I personally like pants that fit but aren't tight for several reasons.
-I sweat A LOT.
-If the crotch is too tight it can rub against or pull at my pubic hair (even through underwear).
-Sometimes they feel crowded or too tight.
-Often the seams will rub against my legs and create a sore spot from the friction.

None of these things that bother me about tight pants have anything to do with a phantom penis. They are normal. I don't feel that the crotch of the pants is hugging my dick to tight, or that my penis has to lay a certain way in them that causes discomfort.

So unless you actually have the phenomenon of FEELING that a penis is there through ideas like it is laying against your body somehow I don't really think that the phantom penis theory fits completely. It kind of seems like some of the responses are just things that can be explained easily and accurately with your body as it is, with or without a phantom limb of sorts.

It may not be a happy thing for some people to hear but some of these things just are not related to a phantom penis at all. A lot of it is natural body reactions, personal preferences and just flat out fantasy. I'm certain some people do have an actual phantom penis sensation, I am sure that many of the people who have posted here do have them, however I think that some of the responses can be explained with reason rather than this theory.

Interesting to note ... up until about 8-11 weeks (I think, don't quote me! but it's around there) in a human fetus, gender is indistinguishable. When the change happens is when either testosterone or estrogen kicks in and starts to form either male or female genitals (or a variant of that as some are born with). The structures are pretty much the same though until they get enough hormones to really take form. The penis and the clitoris are basically very close in structure and to some extent function.