So to say things were rocky today would be an exceptional understatement... When I woke up today Dan had already been out of bed for a while, playing on his laptop downstairs. When I went downstairs and tried to talk to him he was being very short with me. I asked him what was wrong and he said his usual: "Nothing".

I continued to sit in the living room because I didn't feel like going back upstairs and I had to wait for the water to heat back up since I had heard both of my friends running the shower before I headed downstairs. After a bit my male friend came downstairs to say hello and head into the kitchen, my female friend came down a while after that. In the meantime just as I was about to get up and go shower Dan decided to. I had avoided saying anything further to him while my friends were downstairs just because I don't like to cause a scene and I try to keep private stuff private. I sat there for a few minutes then decided to go upstairs and try to talk to him.

We have a big counter in the bathroom so I sat on it and started to talk. I asked him what was wrong, why he had been being so moody the past few days, and whether there was anything I could do to help. He refused to talk to me and was still being quite short. I, being the overly emotional person I am, started to cry and just proceeded to get more and more upset. I asked him if he wanted to be with me because he has been pushing me away for the past week or so and being more distant than usual. In my experience those things are never an indicator of anything good. I then asked him if he was sure about us, and if he still didn't know whether he wants to transition or not... I asked this because the other night when he came home he choose one of the feminine sets of pajamas to sleep in which he usually does when he is anxious or upset.

He then told me that he does want to start HRT and that he was ending the relationship. He looked so angry and just hearing him say that hurt more than anything, I started to cry even harder... Thankfully my friends were headed out for dinner so they didn't hear us fighting. I asked him if he was sure that is how he felt, and he said yes. I left the bathroom so that he could get dried off and go get dressed. When I walked back into the bedroom a few minutes later I asked him why he lied to me before we moved, why he decided to move in here instead of taking the money he had to rent somewhere else. He basically told me that he was trying to make things work between us and that he wasn't 100% sure that he wanted to start HRT, but that if he wanted that option on the table I wasn't allowing it. He told me that he doesn't know what he wants out of life, and that he loves me more than anything, but that he can't pretend that he is happy when he doesn't know what he wants.

I couldn't stop crying and my chest was so tight it felt like I was going to suffocate... I went into the bathroom and locked the door so that I could just cry in the shower without being interrupted... I felt so helpless, and I loathe feeling that way. When I came out of the shower I asked him to talk upstairs. He agreed to and we sat on the bed. I asked him if he was upset, what he planned to do, etc. When he answered me he told me that he was upset, that he didn't want to leave me but that he doesn't want to keep hurting me which he feels is inevitable. He has no money saved up so he can't afford to move anywhere let alone see another psychiatrist to pursue getting his HRT letters.

I asked him again, what he sees in his future, whether he wants children, etc. He told me he doesn't know, that he isn't sure if he wants kids, and that he doesn't know what he wants to do ultimately. He said he hasn't thought about any of that. I told him that he needs to think about that stuff. I don't care if you are gay, straight, trans, cis, whathaveyou, you ought to have some inclination of what you want out of life. Dan NEVER wants to think about anything more than what he might consider doing that day. It drives me batty and I keep telling him that his therapist now, and any other one he might see want to know what he sees himself doing and what they want before they give him the go ahead for HRT.

I know I am leaving a bunch out but I can barely think straight right now and I can't stop shaking which makes it difficult to concentrate and type. I don't know where we are or if we are going to be okay... I feel so sick and my heart is aching uncontrollably.

I will try to fill in the rest of this when I calm down a bit... I just had to get some of this off my chest.

I am so sorry this is happening.

I hope that you can iron this out.

I am so sorry Jacquelyn. It is so hard when the ones we love pull away and says they want out. That is what happened with my wife. I am sitting here in bed right now breaking down as it is my last week with her and my son as I am now. We will be divorced soon and things will be different.

My gut is telling me he is not telling you something. Maybe he wants out just because he wants the freedom to explore all aspects of a new identity. Or maybe he has an idea of what he wants and he is afraid to verbalize it because it doesn't include you. In any case, the rejection hurts like nothing else. Please know that someone else knows exactly how you feel and is sending good thoughts your way.

Would it be possible to go to a therapy session with him?

Jacquelyn,

I am so sorry to hear that you are having problems.  If you can you need to get him to open up, if not to you then to a therapist.  He is in a bad place and it will only wind up hurting you both.

You do have a family here and we care about you and we care about him.  Hang in there, Hon.

Quote from: Melody on January 09, 2011, 10:16:40 PM
I am so sorry Jacquelyn. It is so hard when the ones we love pull away and says they want out. That is what happened with my wife. I am sitting here in bed right now breaking down as it is my last week with her and my son as I am now. We will be divorced soon and things will be different.

My gut is telling me he is not telling you something. Maybe he wants out just because he wants the freedom to explore all aspects of a new identity. Or maybe he has an idea of what he wants and he is afraid to verbalize it because it doesn't include you. In any case, the rejection hurts like nothing else. Please know that someone else knows exactly how you feel and is sending good thoughts your way.

Would it be possible to go to a therapy session with him?

Thank you Cynthialee.

And Melody, I have gone with him previously to his sessions. He is seeing a MTF therapist. She is exceptionally kind and understanding. She also thinks that Dan is being somewhat reserved and not being 100% honest with his answers, which is why I keep telling him that he won't be able to start HRT if he doesn't take the time to consider what he wants in life.

I feel as though he isn't being completely honest with me and it kills me. He got very upset when we were talking and I told him that by pushing me away he will have succeeded at pushing away everyone that cares about him. I know that sounds harsh, but he does. He has pushed almost everyone in his family away. He doesn't tend to answer their texts or calls (including the other day when his brother called to tell him his nephew was born, which I figured that would be why he was calling at 6am!) and we only see them once in a bluemoon. He is terribly afraid of failing them, which I feel bad for, but I have never set those standards for him. I am still here after he came out to me and I am TRYING to make it work. I have come to accept many things and I have encouraged him to go to therapy, to dress how he feels comfortable (I have bought him a few things that he requested, but he only ever dresses at home), I have given him pedicures and facials and anything else he might ask for... I am just stuck at the point that I want a family... I love him so much that I don't know what to do with myself.

I have told him that I would consider forsaking children if that meant for nothing else that I at least have him... I just don't know what to do. I can't stop crying still and I am scared that he isn't going to try to let me help him work things out.

I remember your first post and the messages following it on the thread. I read them to Dan, and I can honestly say I cried as I did. I am sorry your wife isn't willing to stay, and I am sorry your son reacted how he did. I hate the thought that I would have to be away from my SO, and I don't wish that pain upon anyone else here at Susan's or in any other place. I hate that he is balking in our relationship and I don't know what I can say to help him through this...

Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 09, 2011, 10:41:26 PM
Jacquelyn,

I am so sorry to hear that you are having problems.  If you can you need to get him to open up, if not to you then to a therapist.  He is in a bad place and it will only wind up hurting you both.

You do have a family here and we care about you and we care about him.  Hang in there, Hon.

Thank you Janet. I have tried to get him to open up to me about this, but he is so stubborn, and sure that I am going to judge him. I know that he is doing it to protect himself, but I have never said a single thing to put him down in regards to his TG. I have tried to educate myself, and to talk to him to figure things out.

He has an appointment on Friday with his therapist... I am not sure if he wants me to go or not. I just feel like everything is falling apart this week.

I am glad that you are all so wonderful here because I don't know what I would do without you. Thank you for your never ending kindness, it means the world to me.

Wow, it never occured to me that someone would take the time to read my posts to another, let alone cry over them. Thank you and I hope it helped both of you in some small measure.

It sounds to me like Dan is still in denial. Despite coming out to you, it is almost as if he isn't fully free. After a lifetime of being moody and closed off, after I came out to friends and family, I was just the opposite. You can't get me to shutup about my experiences and feelings nowadays. It doesn't sound like he has had the epiphany.

He is very, very lucky to have you. It sounds like he is repeating his habit of pushing people away with you, but he needs you more than he knows, so try to hang in there. I am rooting for both if you.

I don't know what to think of where we are now, or what he wants at this point in time. I have never been one to give up when things get tough, and he knows that. I have never had an easy life, my father and step mother are drug addicts and alcoholics, and my step father is addicted to prescription pills, while my mother is clinically depressed.

Reading your posts and others here at Susan's helped me from throwing in the towel, part of me wasn't willing to deal with anything out of the ordinary. I have always hoped to find a stable and normal relationship, but as I have gotten older I have realized that my fictional idea of what is normal is actually pretty abnormal.

Your posts did help me, and I think that they caused him to take a second to think about what he wants. I just don't think anything has sunk in for him at this point... He is scared of making that commitment.

I am going to try to talk to him some more... I think he is headed upstairs now, I hear him trying to coax the dog up the stairs for bed.

Thank you for rooting for us, we could use all the help we can get.

Hugs,

Jackie

Quote from: Jacquelyn on January 09, 2011, 11:03:52 PM
I don't know what to think of where we are now, or what he wants at this point in time. I have never been one to give up when things get tough, and he knows that. I have never had an easy life, my father and step mother are drug addicts and alcoholics, and my step father is addicted to prescription pills, while my mother is clinically depressed.

Reading your posts and others here at Susan's helped me from throwing in the towel, part of me wasn't willing to deal with anything out of the ordinary. I have always hoped to find a stable and normal relationship, but as I have gotten older I have realized that my fictional idea of what is normal is actually pretty abnormal.

Your posts did help me, and I think that they caused him to take a second to think about what he wants. I just don't think anything has sunk in for him at this point... He is scared of making that commitment.

I am going to try to talk to him some more... I think he is headed upstairs now, I hear him trying to coax the dog up the stairs for bed.

Thank you for rooting for us, we could use all the help we can get.

Hugs,

Jackie

All I can say is that I am honored and happy that something positive has come from my experience.

Scared, yes that sounds about right. If you can forgive me for injecting a bit of religion, my pastor gave a sermon last week where he basically said that significant change often requires that the pain of not changing is greater than the pain of changing. I only became brave enough to pursue transition when I realized I was not going to survive much longer as I was. Janet actually has the following in her signature line:

"It does not take bravery to transition.  It takes fear.  The fear of spending one more day in the wrong gender. - Janet"

I suppose Dan hasn't quite gotten to that point yet. Good luck.

Hi Jackie,

You know where I am if you need to contact me.

Melody you are looking gorgeous girl.

Cindy

A crack squad of hugs are currently winging their way to you hun.

I'll be honest now, i've been in the same sort of place...except I never told my ex, but the habits of secrecy and bottling things up contributed to our break up (there was other stuff going on, but the fact that i wouldn't talk about being TS meant i found it near impossible to open up about all the other stuff. Dan really does need to learn to be honest...not only is it personally liberating, it'll give your relationship the fighting chance you want. I would say this is as much a relationship issue as it is about Dan being TG, it may be worth considering seeing a relationship counsellor. I did it with my ex, and while i did use it to say the stuff i'd bottled up for 7 years, it got it out in the open, and once we'd started tearing strips off each other we were actually able to start building our friendship up...we're still friends now and see each other every so often. So it does help.

Jaquelyn

I'll try to be fairly brief for once.

I am so sorry that this is happening and I know just how painful it is, but at the same time I think that one thing you need to accept is that for most of us the truth is we can't know what we want from life because whether we admit it to ourselves or not the truth is that becoming our true selves is of OVERIDING importance and everything else kind of goes on hold until that issue has been addressed and settled.

It's difficult I know, but my sense from reading Eve-of-chaos's posts is that HRT and at least experimenting with transition ARE inevitable sooner or later - and therefore the best thing that you can do is to help that to happen sooner. If it is wrong I assure you that it will stop pretty quickly because it isn't an easy road, and anyone for whom it does not swiftly start to deliver peace of mind will therefore almost certainly abandon the attempt. Even so the attempt often has to be made to find out the truth.

The very worst thing you can do, both for yourself and Dan, is to try and stop this experiment. Believe me it's like standing in the path of a Truck - there can be only one outcome to that. Please do both of you a favor and let him find out the truth while he is still young enough to have the possibility of making a good transition. Many are held back by love for partners, the truth is that often all that either partner ends up with is bitterness and regret for lost time, and I would hate for either of you to get hurt like that.

EDIT - Please understand that I don't want to tell you this, because I can imagine how painful it must be, and believe me, right now, I would do anything to be able to offer you better news - but the truth is the truth and you both need to face it now.

Quote from: Melody on January 09, 2011, 11:16:07 PM
All I can say is that I am honored and happy that something positive has come from my experience.

Scared, yes that sounds about right. If you can forgive me for injecting a bit of religion, my pastor gave a sermon last week where he basically said that significant change often requires that the pain of not changing is greater than the pain of changing. I only became brave enough to pursue transition when I realized I was not going to survive much longer as I was. Janet actually has the following in her signature line:

"It does not take bravery to transition.  It takes fear.  The fear of spending one more day in the wrong gender. - Janet"

I suppose Dan hasn't quite gotten to that point yet. Good luck.

That is not a problem at all. I think that one of the biggest problems Dan has is that he has no direction; spiritually, mentally, and emotionally he is at a standstill. As much as I want to help him break out of that, whether it is to realize that he does want to pursue transition, or whether he has other issues to work out, I can't do that without him working with me.

Quote from: Helena on January 10, 2011, 11:41:16 AM
A crack squad of hugs are currently winging their way to you hun.

I'll be honest now, i've been in the same sort of place...except I never told my ex, but the habits of secrecy and bottling things up contributed to our break up (there was other stuff going on, but the fact that i wouldn't talk about being TS meant i found it near impossible to open up about all the other stuff. Dan really does need to learn to be honest...not only is it personally liberating, it'll give your relationship the fighting chance you want. I would say this is as much a relationship issue as it is about Dan being TG, it may be worth considering seeing a relationship counsellor. I did it with my ex, and while i did use it to say the stuff i'd bottled up for 7 years, it got it out in the open, and once we'd started tearing strips off each other we were actually able to start building our friendship up...we're still friends now and see each other every so often. So it does help.

Thank you Helena, I don't know what I would do if I was trying to get by through this on my own... We were seeing a relationship counselor and should have been seeing her Friday... I don't know if he will want me to go.

Last night we talked some more, and I asked him if he was willing to give up children. I guess I can do without an official type of marriage, but I still want biological children. He told me he wasn't sure, but that he still wanted to give me the wedding I've always wanted. He said he wants to buy be a ring and have a wedding day, but no one would have to know it was fake. Those words stabbed at me. I don't want anything about our relationship to be fake or artificial. My wedding day, to me, is the day that I publicly give my entire self (spiritual, physical, emotional) to my partner. I just have a difficult time minimizing that and picturing Dan as anything less than that.

I called him an hour or so ago to tell him that instead of bringing lunch to him I would bring him dinner. He was short and cross with me telling me he was going to his friends after work to help him work on his car and then heading straight to school from there. I said that was fine, and told him I loved him. He only responded 'okay'. One word. Two syllables. How can that hurt so bad? We hung up and I sent him a text asking what that was about. His response was. "I do love you. I just think it would be best if we both moved on."

I won't lie, I turned to tears again and called him back. He didn't answer so I just lay on my bed and cried. He called me back a few minutes later and told me he is tired of fighting all the time (I could hear his friends in the background). He is not out to any of them, and with the exception of the friends we live with (who both know), my aunt, and his mother (who probably assumed it was just a phase when he came out to her), I am the only person who knows and actively tries to support him. He has made it out to his friends like we fight over mundane things all the time. We do once in a while, but who doesn't? Honestly, I do get upset when he comes home and doesn't even want to cuddle at night. He always says he is too tired, but so am I. I was working 40 hours a week at my office job, plus coaching high school speech and debate on most weekends, taking care of the animals, and getting all of the household chores done. Sure, I would get home at 6pm some nights and I would want nothing more than to crawl into bed, but he needs his work clothes and if they aren't clean I would make sure they were so he would have them in the morning. The only thing he is typically responsible for when he gets home is taking off his boots and throwing them in the closet so that no one trips over the boats, getting a shower, and (not very likely) throwing his dirty clothes into the hamper.

I just don't know where to go from here... I feel physically sick. I am tired of him hiding things from me, and I am tired of feeling like I should be on the tip of my toes waiting for the next thing to happen. I left him a voicemail and asked him to call me back before his lunch break is over, but I doubt he will. I don't know if he is coming home tonight... I asked him and he said he didn't know yet. If he does it won't be for another 10 hours and I don't know what to do to kill that time without wanting to off myself in the process.

I have contemplated calling my Aunt and talking to her about moving out to Indiana... I don't know anyone out there but her and her husband (and some of his family). I don't have a job to leave behind right now, I don't have anything as far as I can see.

All I know is that there is nothing quite like being told that you are unwanted by someone you love. It is the nastiest feeling I have ever experienced and I hate him for making me feel this way when all I want to do it to love him and make him happy. Where do I even try to go from here?

Quote from: rejennyrated on January 10, 2011, 12:02:49 PM
Jaquelyn

I'll try to be fairly brief for once.

I am so sorry that this is happening and I know just how painful it is, but at the same time I think that one thing you need to accept is that for most of us the truth is we can't know what we want from life because whether we admit it to ourselves or not the truth is that becoming our true selves is of OVERIDING importance and everything else kind of goes on hold until that issue has been addressed and settled.

It's difficult I know, but my sense from reading Eve-of-chaos's posts is that HRT and at least experimenting with transition ARE inevitable sooner or later - and therefore the best thing that you can do is to help that to happen sooner. If it is wrong I assure you that it will stop pretty quickly because it isn't an easy road, and anyone for whom it does not swiftly start to deliver peace of mind will therefore almost certainly abandon the attempt. Even so the attempt often has to be made to find out the truth.

The very worst thing you can do, both for yourself and Dan, is to try and stop this experiment. Believe me it's like standing in the path of a Truck - there can be only one outcome to that. Please do both of you a favor and let him find out the truth while he is still young enough to have the possibility of making a good transition. Many are held back by love for partners, the truth is that often all that either partner ends up with is bitterness and regret for lost time, and I would hate for either of you to get hurt like that.

Jenny,

I do understand what you are saying. My only fear is that Dan has other demons to put to rest besides transition that are getting lost in the process. I know he has other issues to work through, but he doesn't want to talk about them with me or with his therapist. I feel as though he is throwing away any chance of us being together (through transition or not...) because he is afraid I will actually stick around. I know him better than anyone, and I don't tend to let him pussyfoot around subjects that make him a little uncomfortable.

Is him starting HRT ideal for the life I had imagined we would have? No.
Would I leave after the first time he pops a pill of E? No.
Can I promise that I would stay indefinitely once he starts to change? No.

However, no one can guarantee that their relationship is going to last forever, whether they be gay, straight, trans, or cis. It doesn't work that way. People change as they mature and that is something that can't be stopped.

I told him last night that it would be downright stupid of me to leave right now considering I was still here after the initial tell and we had been working through things pretty well til this point.

I just don't know what to do now, and more than I have ever wanted anything in my life, I wish I did.

Quote from: Jacquelyn on January 10, 2011, 12:04:31 PM
I said that was fine, and told him I loved him. He only responded 'okay'. One word. Two syllables. How can that hurt so bad? We hung up and I sent him a text asking what that was about. His response was. "I do love you. I just think it would be best if we both moved on."

I won't lie, I turned to tears again and called him back. He didn't answer so I just lay on my bed and cried. He called me back a few minutes later and told me he is tired of fighting all the time (I could hear his friends in the background). He is not out to any of them, and with the exception of the friends we live with (who both know), my aunt, and his mother (who probably assumed it was just a phase when he came out to her), I am the only person who knows and actively tries to support him. He has made it out to his friends like we fight over mundane things all the time. We do once in a while, but who doesn't? Honestly, I do get upset when he comes home and doesn't even want to cuddle at night. He always says he is too tired, but so am I. I was working 40 hours a week at my office job, plus coaching high school speech and debate on most weekends, taking care of the animals, and getting all of the household chores done. Sure, I would get home at 6pm some nights and I would want nothing more than to crawl into bed, but he needs his work clothes and if they aren't clean I would make sure they were so he would have them in the morning. The only thing he is typically responsible for when he gets home is taking off his boots and throwing them in the closet so that no one trips over the boats, getting a shower, and (not very likely) throwing his dirty clothes into the hamper.

I just don't know where to go from here... I feel physically sick. I am tired of him hiding things from me, and I am tired of feeling like I should be on the tip of my toes waiting for the next thing to happen. I left him a voicemail and asked him to call me back before his lunch break is over, but I doubt he will. I don't know if he is coming home tonight... I asked him and he said he didn't know yet. If he does it won't be for another 10 hours and I don't know what to do to kill that time without wanting to off myself in the process.

I have contemplated calling my Aunt and talking to her about moving out to Indiana... I don't know anyone out there but her and her husband (and some of his family). I don't have a job to leave behind right now, I don't have anything as far as I can see.

All I know is that there is nothing quite like being told that you are unwanted by someone you love. It is the nastiest feeling I have ever experienced and I hate him for making me feel this way when all I want to do it to love him and make him happy. Where do I even try to go from here?

The day my ex turned round and said "I know" when i said I loved her tore my hear in two, so i know exactly how you feel.

Now that i've put two and two together (thanks to jenny's post) I'd have to say i agree with what she says. There has been a lot of emotional conflict in Dan's posts, I think Jenny is right, the desire to at the very least experiment with transition is there and i think once the internal conflicts are levelled out it'll be a no brainer. I think Dan might be at the stage of knowing that she's a woman, but feels that she doesn't want to be a "fake" woman...if that makes sense. All that ends up happening is that one day you wake up and realise that the life that you've been living in your assigned gender is more fake than you life should you transition. It also sounds like Dan is trying to protect you from what she sees as inevitable hurt.

Now may be the time to sit down and really think what you want...I know you love Dan, that's plain enough to see by your words, but you may honestly be approaching the point where you'll have to decide whether you can both find a way to make things work or if you take a step back and support Dan as her friend. My suspicion is that Dan is projecting her fears of what will happen in the future and the fact that she might hurt you onto the relationship. Wanting to end it may sound cold but i suspect the motivation behind it is love.

The biggest and best thing you can do right now is talk...tear strips of each other if you have to, bawl your eyes out, hug and make up...but talk.

I hope you do sort this out Jacquelyn, you are a genuinely warm and open hearted person and you've shared so many of your fears with us.

big hug

Helena x

Quote from: Jacquelyn on January 10, 2011, 12:13:08 PM
Jenny,

I do understand what you are saying. My only fear is that Dan has other demons to put to rest besides transition that are getting lost in the process. I know he has other issues to work through, but he doesn't want to talk about them with me or with his therapist. I feel as though he is throwing away any chance of us being together (through transition or not...) because he is afraid I will actually stick around. I know him better than anyone, and I don't tend to let him pussyfoot around subjects that make him a little uncomfortable.

Is him starting HRT ideal for the life I had imagined we would have? No.
Would I leave after the first time he pops a pill of E? No.
Can I promise that I would stay indefinitely once he starts to change? No.

However, no one can guarantee that their relationship is going to last forever, whether they be gay, straight, trans, or cis. It doesn't work that way. People change as they mature and that is something that can't be stopped.

I told him last night that it would be downright stupid of me to leave right now considering I was still here after the initial tell and we had been working through things pretty well til this point.

I just don't know what to do now, and more than I have ever wanted anything in my life, I wish I did.

Yeah I hear you loud and clear.

As regards other issues sometimes we have to deal with them first - other times we can only find the strength to face those demons once we have started to become our true selves, and anyway any gender counselor worth their salt will find those other issues and will insist on them being worked through. So don't worry, it will all work out in the end.

Jackie, I can understand how you are feeling right now.  And I can see the other side, because I have been there.  That is not that I agree or even condone how he is handling it.

For 54 years and three marriage, I also hide and would not let anyone in.  Even my last wife, who knew about my GID, was never really let in.  If she had been more accepting we might still be together.  It is hard to get past that feeling of not letting people in.  He needs to see that you are right there, saying we can do this together.  So many of us never get to have that special person, who is there for us.

Even if things did not work out between you two, he could look back and say that Jackie really was a very big support.  It is hard to love someone and they just can't get pass that feeling that they will lose you.  But by doing what he is doing now, isn't doing much for his self esteem.  You are a sweet lady, Jackie, and you deserve the very best.

I can see the truth behind what each of you has said, and I thank you so much for being there for me when I need it the most. It is not going to be easy, and I know that... I sent him an e-mail and I can only hope that he reads it and can perhaps find it within himself to come home, if only to talk...

My Love,

Of all of the things I would like to do, I wish I could make you see how much you mean to me. Please don't push me away. Let me try to work through this with you. I am not going to run away screaming when you start HRT. I am sorry that things haven't been picturesque, but are they ever?

Please come home tonight. You belong here. All I want is to give you a kiss on the forehead and hold you close. You are the most important thing in my life, and I am not being dramatic in saying there is nothing I wouldn't do for you, Daniel. I love you, and I hope that we can work through this. You deserve the world, and I want to be the one to give you that.

There is nothing that can make me minimize the feelings I have for you, that I have had for you, that I will always have for you.

What I said this morning is stupid, I was still half asleep. I can't picture you any other way because I have yet to see you any other way. I am sure that I can be flexible because that's what love does.

I love you, Daniel. Always and forever...

See you tonight?

I guess the ball is in his court.... I can't force him to come home, I can't make him love me if he doesn't. I don't see his TG as something that is going to fade away into nothingness. The first thing I did after he came out and I was able to stop crying enough to legibly type in a google search was find this site. At first I looked around, then I finally came around to making my first posts. In reading all of your stories, speaking privately with some of you, and learning what it feels like to be in your shoes there is nothing that can make me want to leave him.

Love is love. I didn't ask to fall in love with Dan, I just did. As I said before, I couldn't promise you that we would be together FOREVER even if he wasn't TS. Would I like that to be the case (that we would be together, not that his TS didn't exist)? Absolutely. But nothing is guaranteed.

If he walks away I don't know if I could let him back in no matter what he does in the end... I am more hurt right now than I can ever remember being, and I have some atrocious memories and experiences that come to mind.

I would give you each a hug right now if I could. You are my saving grace. I have been severely depressed in teh past and I would be lying if I didn't say I was on edge right now.  If I didn't have the support that you all have given me I probably would have given up in October.

If he comes home tonight I will ask him to look over this thread. I want him to see that I am not planning on running out the door. I want him to understand that things are never absolute, but that I am willing to take this leap of faith as long as he is by my side.

Love and teary hugs to all of you,

I will never be able to express my gratitude enough...

Jackie

Quote from: rejennyrated on January 10, 2011, 12:54:21 PM
As regards other issues sometimes we have to deal with them first - other times we can only find the strength to face those demons once we have started to become our true selves, and anyway any gender counselor worth their salt will find those other issues and will insist on them being worked through. So don't worry, it will all work out in the end.

I agree with this - it's not reasonable to expect someone to have dealt with every issue prior to a major life change of any type.  Who would get married if they needed to work out all their own issues first?  Certainly, if there are things that make relationships dysfunctional, interfere with other key aspects of life, etc, they need to be dealt with (and it's fair to insist upon dealing with things that impact a marriage) - but to say they need to be dealt with first, I'm not so sure.  I think a lot of these can be worked out together, because, often, they are related to each other.  They don't necessarily need to be worked on one at a time.

As for the original poster, I'd say that it sounds as if your spouse is likely to go through with this, yet I'm hearing (maybe not accurately) in your posts that you want your spouse to stay as the person you believed you married, a man.  And I get the feeling you're hoping that as your spouse works out these issues, that your spouse will decide that it was immature/irresponsible/uninformed/impulsive/etc to want to transition.  Very few people who start to transition change their minds later - it's remarkable at how reliable people's initial perception of their sex is when it comes to long term desires.  This is true even of people with lots of other issues.  I'd also echo that no reputable therapist or doctor will prescribe HRT without being relatively sure of things - in fact, I'm amazed at how many hoops people who are transitioning must jump through to be the person they are, when very few other people making really big decisions have to do nearly as much.

The question that I think is relevant to the original poster is this: Are you willing to accept your spouse's view of themself, if your spouse decides to begin HRT and other transitioning?  Likely, this will mean a new name, new pronouns, etc.  If you want to stay together, and you can accept this, then you should tell your spouse this - that if your spouse sees themself as female, you are glad to see *her* that way.  If your spouse sees themself as female, but doesn't think you will accept that, of course your spouse will leave - just as you would leave if your spouse insisted on acting as if you were a man!  Having faith that the spouse will accept a decision will encourage honesty because they won't have to lose something to be honest.  But to have that faith, it's important to know where the other person stands.

If you can't see yourself willing to accept your spouse as "her" when your spouse starts transitioning, it might not be the right relationship.  I hope that's not the case, and I hope the two of you can find a way forward, albeit a path that is not as straight as many other couples walk.  I know I would feel very lost if I thought I might lose my spouse, so I'll be praying that you both can find the path.

(apologies to all on pronouns - it's really hard for me to know what pronouns to use in this situation, as I don't know how the spouse who isn't here would see themself)

Quote from: Slanan on January 10, 2011, 02:09:31 PM
I agree with this - it's not reasonable to expect someone to have dealt with every issue prior to a major life change of any type.  Who would get married if they needed to work out all their own issues first?  Certainly, if there are things that make relationships dysfunctional, interfere with other key aspects of life, etc, they need to be dealt with (and it's fair to insist upon dealing with things that impact a marriage) - but to say they need to be dealt with first, I'm not so sure.  I think a lot of these can be worked out together, because, often, they are related to each other.  They don't necessarily need to be worked on one at a time.

As for the original poster, I'd say that it sounds as if your spouse is likely to go through with this, yet I'm hearing (maybe not accurately) in your posts that you want your spouse to stay as the person you believed you married, a man.  And I get the feeling you're hoping that as your spouse works out these issues, that your spouse will decide that it was immature/irresponsible/uninformed/impulsive/etc to want to transition.  Very few people who start to transition change their minds later - it's remarkable at how reliable people's initial perception of their sex is when it comes to long term desires.  This is true even of people with lots of other issues.  I'd also echo that no reputable therapist or doctor will prescribe HRT without being relatively sure of things - in fact, I'm amazed at how many hoops people who are transitioning must jump through to be the person they are, when very few other people making really big decisions have to do nearly as much.

The question that I think is relevant to the original poster is this: Are you willing to accept your spouse's view of themself, if your spouse decides to begin HRT and other transitioning?  Likely, this will mean a new name, new pronouns, etc.  If you want to stay together, and you can accept this, then you should tell your spouse this - that if your spouse sees themself as female, you are glad to see *her* that way.  If your spouse sees themself as female, but doesn't think you will accept that, of course your spouse will leave - just as you would leave if your spouse insisted on acting as if you were a man!  Having faith that the spouse will accept a decision will encourage honesty because they won't have to lose something to be honest.  But to have that faith, it's important to know where the other person stands.

If you can't see yourself willing to accept your spouse as "her" when your spouse starts transitioning, it might not be the right relationship.  I hope that's not the case, and I hope the two of you can find a way forward, albeit a path that is not as straight as many other couples walk.  I know I would feel very lost if I thought I might lose my spouse, so I'll be praying that you both can find the path.

(apologies to all on pronouns - it's really hard for me to know what pronouns to use in this situation, as I don't know how the spouse who isn't here would see themself)

Dan is my boyfriend. We have been living together for almost two years, and up until October had been planning an engagement (sometime this coming spring), and had been working towards a shared life. He has asked that I don't refer to him with feminine pronouns.

Since he came out to me I have been struggling with certain things, but I have been working to inform myself and help him to make whatever decisions he needs to make in life. He is now seeing a gender therapist as I encouraged him to go. I did not run for the hills when he came out to me, and I don't intend to anytime soon. I did say that I would prefer that neither of us had any resounding issues, but what person, or relationship doesn't? Things are never ideal, but we are working with what we have.

I have been very open with him about how I feel, whether I am sad or elated I am truthful with him. He on the other hand has been being somewhat of a pain. We have been seeing his therapist for couples therapy as well. The reason I say he has been being a pain is because he tends to shut down when he doesn't know the answer to a question and he is just godawful at thinking hypothetically. The therapist asks him what challenges he foresees with transitioning... I don't know.. What do you think transitioning will do for you... I don't know...

I am not trying to sound testy, nor am I trying to sound like I am angry with my partner for his TG, I am just so tired and drained from this and a number of other things at the moment.