I didn't really go crazy celebrating or anything, but I was surprised to finally hear the news of his death. And I'm glad he's no longer alive to cause more harm to anyone else.

Here's an idea: Bring all our troops home from everywhere in the world.  Take the money we blow on "Defense" (it's really Offense) and put it into our failing infrastructure.

See the Report Card

Once infrastructure totally breaks down, this country won't be able to function.  And we will be easy pickings.

Most of the countries that hate us do so because we stick our noses into everyone's business, try to tell them how to run their lives and take up residence in their countries.  Pull out and a lot of that hatred will eventually die.  And as far as intelligence is concerned, we can still do that behind the scenes, just like everyone else.

Imagine turning on your faucet and being able to drink the water.  Imagine driving on our roads without a pothole taking out your wheels.  Imagine wind and solar energy replacing fossil fuel energy.  And imagine the cost savings to each and every citizen of this country.

A solid infrastructure or dead enemies?  I'll take the former any day.

Quote from: JungianZoe on May 07, 2011, 07:39:46 AM
I think you totally and utterly misunderstood my comment.  I never said I was sad that Osama was dead, I said that any type of killing saddened me.  Any type of killing committed by anybody.  I don't support the enterprise of killing.

Yes, starving children are sad too, but that's nothing to do with murder, which is all I was talking about.  And I'm sorry your ancestors were murdered, but to me that would still be no reason (in my opinion) to continue the cycle of death.  If someone killed one of my relatives, I would feel the same toward their killer.  Sorry if that's not popular (apparently I'm supposed to have some bloodlust) but that's just the way it is.  Please respect that.

In 1961 there was 3 billons humans, in 1999 the number has risen to 6 billion, by 2045 the number will be about 9 billon, with a great proportion demanding "American Standards of Living" Carrying capacity of earth assuming every arable land is exploited as intensive  and efficiently as US  6.2 billions. What do you think is going to happen to the the "excess 3 billions"
You look like a young woman, you better get used to the idea of "wholesale killing: in the name of National Interest (read food and water). Me, I do not have to worrie, I will be long dead.

Quote from: kate durcal on May 11, 2011, 09:45:00 PM
In 1961 there was 3 billons humans, in 1999 the number has risen to 6 billion, by 2045 the number will be about 9 billon, with a great proportion demanding "American Standards of Living" Carrying capacity of earth assuming every arable land is exploited as intensive  and efficiently as US  6.2 billions. What do you think is going to happen to the the "excess 3 billions"
You look like a young woman, you better get used to the idea of "wholesale killing: in the name of National Interest (read food and water). Me, I do not have to worrie, I will be long dead.

Okay friends, this topic is getting out of focus... It was meant as a thread for people to discuss their feelings regarding Bin Laden

I can understand a bit of thread drift, that is somewhat expected, but argumentative posturing will not be tolerated

Thank you all for your participation in this discussion, but I am thinking to request this thread locked

Quote from: Virginia M on May 11, 2011, 10:46:46 PM
Okay friends, this topic is getting out of focus... It was meant as a thread for people to discuss their feelings regarding Bin Laden

I can understand a bit of thread drift, that is somewhat expected, but argumentative posturing will not be tolerated

Thank you all for your participation in this discussion, but I am thinking to request this thread locked

Thank you, Virginia... before I display my youthful naivete in a manner unbecoming of my code of respect.

Breathe, Zoe, breathe... 

If you combine a complete and utter ignorance of both basic government and current geo-political realities with tissue-thin ethics it sure makes for more laughs than an episode of Modern Family.

  Bin Laden is dead, whatever things or events happen directly from this will be short lived.  Bin Laden will be remembered long after al-Qaeda is disbanded for the actions against a superpower, even for those who don't follow in his beliefs.  In the old Communist countries, they taught the revolutionary virtues of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln, even though they dispoused their capitalist ideals.   
  It is from my Christian belief that he, as well as all others, including saints and despots, will face Judgement and give an account of himself for the entry into God's Kingdom.  We're here on Earth now and must live on.   It is time for all of us to bury him.  Bravo Zulu at sea.
  Joelene

While many cheered his death, Bin Laden accomplished his goal, to financially hurt the US.  By some estimates, the post 9/11 cost to the US for the war on terror was about $2.5 trillion, most became part of our national debt.  This year alone, US taxpayers will be burdened with $45 billion in interest on that money.  And the future doesn't look so bright.  Economists are saying these costs will continue ad infinitum. 

Next year the US plans on spending another $114 billion on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, $125 billion for the Pentagon, $14 billion for Homeland Security and billions more on intelligence and aid to Pakistan. 

I haven't seen the figures on what al Qaeda spent or what Bin Laden personally spent but I'm sure they got a lot of bang for their buck.  And it is our kids and their kids who will be paying the tab for a very long time.  They, like the people killed on 9/11, had no part in the actions that stir up emotions of hatred in the likes of people like Bin Laden but pay they will.

OBL personally may not be able to further hurt innocent people, but what he has done will continue to cause incalculable harm.  In some ways, we only shot the messenger.

Apparently Bin Bin was still very active in the planning of attacks

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110512/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden

Officials: Bin Laden eyed small cities as targets

By KIMBERLY DOZIER, AP Intelligence Writer – Thu May 12, 7:45 am ET
WASHINGTON – Though hunted and in hiding, Osama bin Laden remained the driving force behind every recent al-Qaida terror plot, U.S. officials say, citing his private journal and other documents recovered in last week's raid.
Until Navy SEALs killed him a week ago, bin Laden dispensed chilling advice to the leaders of al-Qaida groups from Yemen to London: Hit Los Angeles, not just New York, he wrote. Target trains as well as planes. If possible, strike on significant dates, such as the Fourth of July and the upcoming 10th anniversary of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Above all, he urged, kill more Americans in a single attack, to drive them from the Arab world.
Bin Laden's written words show that counterterrorist officials worldwide underestimated how key he remained to running the organization, shattering the conventional thinking that he had been reduced through isolation to being an inspirational figurehead, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
His personal, handwritten journal and his massive collection of computer files show he helped plan every recent major al-Qaida threat the U.S. is aware of, including plots in Europe last year that had travelers and embassies on high alert, two officials said. So far, no new plots have been uncovered in bin Laden's writings, but intelligence officials say it will take weeks, if not months, to go through them.

Yeah, I'll bet that he had weapons of mass destruction in his secret lair too.

I have mixed feelings about Bin Laden's death.  I know it may provide some sense of closure for the friends and families of those who died on 11 September 2001 but I'm sure it will spark some form of retaliation from these terrorists.

Quote from: LadyTeresa on May 12, 2011, 12:21:55 PM
I have mixed feelings about Bin Laden's death.  I know it may provide some sense of closure for the friends and families of those who died on 11 September 2001 but I'm sure it will spark some form of retaliation from these terrorists.

I will say: "bring in on" In my humble opinion the war in Afghanistan should have been conducted by air attacks, and special ops "seek and destroy" mission, and the type of ops  executed against Pablo Ecobar (e.g. if you cannot get Pablo, get his dentist, sooner or later people get tired and turn him over)

Yest to conduct this type of operation will have to have the political determination to do it, and with all the current sensibilities and political correctness, I am afraid it is and was a no go. The cost of our high moral stance: we are bankrupting ourselves. yes, 10 year and 1 billon dollar just to kilkl Usama.

Quote from: kate durcal on May 12, 2011, 08:57:34 PM
I will say: "bring in on" In my humble opinion the war in Afghanistan should have been conducted by air attacks, and special ops "seek and destroy" mission, and the type of ops  executed against Pablo Ecobar (e.g. if you cannot get Pablo, get his dentist, sooner or later people get tired and turn him over)

Yest to conduct this type of operation will have to have the political determination to do it, and with all the current sensibilities and political correctness, I am afraid it is and was a no go. The cost of our high moral stance: we are bankrupting ourselves. yes, 10 year and 1 billon dollar just to kilkl Usama.

Quite possibly the most offensive post since.....well the last thing that you posted on this thread. I am lost for words!

Please enlighten me as to what is exactly offensive! 

There is nothing offensive about the truth. I have not use foul language at all, or  belittle anybody, at most I have a few grammatical error and typos.

Since Vietnam, we have been forgetting about the cost of winning wars. We are fighting people so determine to  hurt us that they will stop at nothing, even their women have no qualms at strapping some plastic explosive and blow themselves to kingdom come just to hurt us.

I am not for war, I have been on one, had a bullet hole to prove it, plus still I do not sleep well, so it is not like I am praying for one, but this people -the Islamic extremists- started. Now, what are you prepared to do to win? Use harsh language, or try to play cumbaya with them? I am just telling you in my expert opinion what it would take to really defeat the enemy. The solution is not pretty but war is what it is.

I don't see where it's all that hard to understand that if you declare war it's not unexpected that the other side might well take it up and fight back.  (Which works for both sides here, BTW). 

If you don't really understand the 9-11 attacks (or think it's because 'they hate our freedom') then you really don't understand what's going on.  Likewise, if our hunting him down and killing him shocks you, you really don't understand what's going on.

Quote from: kate durcal on May 12, 2011, 08:57:34 PM
we are bankrupting ourselves. yes, 10 year and 1 billon dollar just to kilkl Usama.

I'm not sure exactly how much we spent specifically on hunting down and killing OBL but I do know the costs of the wars since 9/11 is in the trillions.  I would venture to guess if just the money we spent on OBL personally was added up it would be more mind boggling than just $1B.

No one does war better than the USA.  And no country comes even close to what we spend on defense.  With as good as we are supposed to be at this kind of thing, I was surprised it took so long to nail him.

Quote from: tekla on May 13, 2011, 05:04:29 PM
I don't see where it's all that hard to understand that if you declare war it's not unexpected that the other side might well take it up and fight back.  (Which works for both sides here, BTW). 

If you don't really understand the 9-11 attacks (or think it's because 'they hate our freedom') then you really don't understand what's going on.  Likewise, if our hunting him down and killing him shocks you, you really don't understand what's going on.

Please, enlighten us?

Katie, you are advocating the U.S murdering innocent people. Call me naive if you must, but yes I still find that shocking.

not OBL, OIL.

Quote from: MillieB on May 13, 2011, 05:47:34 PM
Please, enlighten us?

Katie, you are advocating the U.S murdering innocent people. Call me naive if you must, but yes I still find that shocking.

I am not advocating murder of anybody. War is always murder, and sometime to edn a war and preclude more death and more economic ruin, a country has to choose the leeer of evils; that is what we did when we bomb hiroshima and nagasaki. Now we are embroiled in a dirt war with some extremist, a costly  asymmetric war. What I presented above was exactly what it would take to dismantle that or any similar organizations and win the war. How many innocents will die? To many, I admit! but at the long run it would save more life in both sides. There are examples of countries who had the political will to conduct such a war. Yes there innocent casualties in both side and when look at it with the ethical ad moralistic glasses on, those war and those regimes have been condemn as barbaric, but the countries that emerged out them are know healthy, peaceful and prosperous, costly yes. Now there are other countries were there was no such a political will to conduct such a war, and now and for the lat one hundred years the asymmetric war goes on with no end in sight.

With the plan I outlined above the war against Usama/Taliban would have been over in 2 years at less human and economic cost. Now, have we won the war? if we live Afghanistan today or  next day, what do you thing is going to happen? Let m offer you my expert opinion, the Taliban would be back in control in no time (a year or two), then back to training terrorist (Uh, did I say back to the future?) And if we stay, how many trillions of American tax payers are we willing to sink into a lose cause? This is the kind of narrative we refuse to consider because our high mind, costly and perilous stand

Quote from: kate durcal on May 14, 2011, 12:27:22 PM
With the plan I outlined above the war against Usama/Taliban would have been over in 2 years at less human and economic cost.

Ignorance truly must be bliss.

A war over idealism, and radical religious beliefs, doesn't just go away; most certainly not in that period of time.

Quote from: kate durcal on May 14, 2011, 12:27:22 PM
Let m[e] offer you my expert opinion

Again. While I admit expertise is hard to define in a case like this, claiming you are one when you have obvious logic gaps is rather silly.

As for the topic at hand:

I was indifferent when it happened and still am. Cutting one head off of a (Lernaean) Hydra doesn't do much other than annoy it. What I am very happy about is that they captured a ton of information.