Vermont recently changed their laws, so to get your M changed to an F you simply need to be diagnosed with GID. now personally I am terrified of both bathrooms equally and have an anxiety attack when I have to use one. Presenting female and using the men's room endangers yourself to physical altercations, presenting female (unsuccessfully) and using the women's room can subject you to verbal/ legal altercations.

There is no easy answer, even though there really should be.

Quote from: tekla on August 21, 2011, 05:00:58 PM
some prefer to use transgender in lieu of transsexual as well.

Then they would be wrong.  Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and options, they are not entitled to their own unique vocabulary.  Any landlubber can (and frequently does) confuse 'ship' and 'boat' it doesn't change the fact that they are two different things, and confusing the vocabulary still doesn't change the physics.

For once Tekla, I actually agree with you.

Quote from: Valeriedances on August 21, 2011, 01:51:48 PM
This is part of the problem. Why should it be the womans responsibility to deal with it when these are supposed to be gender segregated bathrooms.

We all know men's sex drive causes them to think about sex quite often. If womens only space is removed whats to stop men from harassing women in their private moments. Whats to stop a man from following a girl hes attracted to straight into the bathroom claiming hes merely expressing his gender preference. Women everywhere are not going to agree with this.

What to stop them from doing it now? There is no bathroom police waiting for some pervert to follow a young lady to a secluded restroom.

Nor are there any bathroom police to keep people safe in the men's room either.

Quote from: tekla on August 21, 2011, 08:03:51 PM
Nor are there any bathroom police to keep people safe in the men's room either.

Exactly why bathrooms terrify me.

I think it's far more likely that an FtM is going to find out that more guys have been tuned-up in bathrooms than any other place.  No guards.  No cameras.  One way in, and only one way out.

At this point I am not always presenting as a women for a number of reasons including my wife.
When I am in gender neutral clothing I am often called ma'am so going to a men's bathroom has become scary.
At a store or restaurant I usually rush in and enter a stall and than rush out.

When I'm am dress as the women I am I have no problems in the women's restroom.
Often chatting with other ladies.
I am a transsexual and have been on hrt for 19 months.

A satirical piece I wrote a couple of years ago re "bathroom police"
http://y2gender.com/index.php?blog=2&p=40&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

I know a lot of femme gay males who use the women's restroom.
I honestly do not see a problem with it, it's not like they're going to be peeking up under your stall taking pictures lol.
(:

Quote from: Joeyboo~ :3 on August 24, 2011, 05:06:57 AMI honestly do not see a problem with it, it's not like they're going to be peeking up under your stall taking pictures lol.
(:

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/sydney-changing-room-hidden-camera-warning-20110824-1j9pe.html

Quote from: tekla on August 21, 2011, 11:40:39 AM
What about the rights of the people who are in the bathroom?

They have the right to use the bathroom too.

Quote from: tekla on August 21, 2011, 05:00:58 PM
some prefer to use transgender in lieu of transsexual as well.

Then they would be wrong. 

How people use words is what defines them. So you're wrong that they would be wrong.

i belive nomatter if your TS/TV/CD if you are curenly presenting as male and when i present as male like for me i am TS and i use the wheel chair bathroom or any one that unisex bathroom or the male bathroom(in desperation), and this should be the same for anyone presenting as male even(if like me) you are female if the curent appearance is male you must think of your own safety first, however if your TS/TV/CD and your curently presenting as female but for some reason you know you don't fully pass enough to enter the female bathroom then i sugest ONLY using the nutural/unisex bathrooms,  and if you present as female(and pass) as either TS/CD/TV provided you do it just to be a girl and goto the bathroom to either fix make up, goto the toilet or just chat with your girls then your more than welcome in a female bathroom, if your in there to be preverted or anything then your in the wrong place, you wouldn't do the same thing in the male bathroom, that also goes for anyone who's TS and is presented as male in the male bathroom, have the same respect and don't be preverted to men either, the bathrooms are not the place for that.

this is how i feel and i am TS and i curently 95% of the time present as female and i do pass and i always use the female bathrooms when i need to goto the loo, and while i do fancy only women i am not in there to be preverted and anyother woman would be the same, it's something called respect of one's privacy and we all must obey this because otherwise your just a creep.

just remember be safe(enter as you pass best), be respectful and use the bathrooms what there ment to be used for, aslong as u do this then there is no problem using the bathroom.

Lucy xxx

How people use words is what defines them. So you're wrong that they would be wrong.

If that is true then there is no hate speech.  Just because I use that word and you (and everyone else) finds it objectionable, that doesn't mean that I meant it in that way.

But hey, try this little experiment using two words that are in one sense totally equal.  Have your friend walk into a biker bar and ask:
Which of you cats owns that bike out there?
then you can walk in and ask:
Which of you pussies owns that bike out there?

Let's see if words make a difference.

while to someone who is TS using the term TG to define yourself as TS is not correct i personaly belive people precive us when using the term transSEXUAL people see the SEXUAL part as ok your changing because of your sexual preference and also they also see it as the more often term used ->-bleeped-<-, i take offense to both terms and i feel being called TS offensive because this is how the offensive people to us use this word no when it comes to coloured people the N word is considered evil yet it's fine for someone who is coloured to use this term, it's in the same context, i belive the term transgender should be applied to us as people because we are changing(trans) gender(our gender) and while our mind heart and soul is female(MTF) or male(FTM) people precive us different and going back to the ->-bleeped-<- comment people precive we do this to be sexualy involed with people are half female and still have the male parts, and while i relise some girls have to do this because they can't aford the surgeries it also gives us a bad name and because of this people do not view us as female so the term transexual imo is tainted and i belive impossible to get back, so imo the term transgender should be removed as a umbrella term and given to us as people and i feel personaly this is more fitting(sorry for going off topic but too many people mention this in this post and i felt it needed to be addressed)
i am transgender and i could care less how anyone else says different because if you like others change how u feel you may aswell be some puppet.

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 24, 2011, 11:12:20 AM
They have the right to use the bathroom too.
How people use words is what defines them. So you're wrong that they would be wrong.

I have to agree with tekla (I can't believe that I just said that  )

We can use any words we like to describe ourselves, what is important is the words other people/institutions use to describe us.  If we continue to propagate wrong terminology then we loose.

Quote from: tekla on August 24, 2011, 12:04:40 PM
Let's see if words make a difference.

Oh, words make a difference, but it's the people who use them who define what they mean. There's no "Ministry of Word Definitions" any more than there's a "Ministry of Silly Walks."

I typically use the word trans, I prefer it because I am Trans(itioning) and it just seems to work for me. But I also don't take offence easily and do not mind transsexual or transgender.

Quote from: tekla on August 21, 2011, 05:00:58 PM
some prefer to use transgender in lieu of transsexual as well.

Then they would be wrong.  Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and options, they are not entitled to their own unique vocabulary.  Any landlubber can (and frequently does) confuse 'ship' and 'boat' it doesn't change the fact that they are two different things, and confusing the vocabulary still doesn't change the physics.

There is historical precedent and continuous use of transgender and transsexual interchangeably going back at least 40 years. The use of transgender as an umbrella term, and transsexual specifically for those who have a brain sex that differs from their assigned sex is not universally accepted.

I prefer to use them in that way myself, but it doesn't mean people who use them interchangeably are misusing the terms.

As far as the actual debate in this thread, use whichever one you're most comfortable with and hopefully it will also be the one which causes the least incident. Not passing doesn't mean you don't have every right to be there.

Quote from: LifeInNeon on August 26, 2011, 06:25:47 PM
As far as the actual debate in this thread, use whichever one you're most comfortable with and hopefully it will also be the one which causes the least incident. Not passing doesn't mean you don't have every right to be there.

I agree.  Appearance should not be a criterion.  I think behavior is the standard by which restroom use should be regulated.