Quote from: Zenda on December 13, 2011, 10:26:12 PM
Kia Ora Annah,.
1) It was man 'who' invented religion ! [Unless that is one believes in a god creator]...
Humankind, since intelligence became of them have looked above themselves to have faith in something higher than themselves.
One cannot prove humankind "invented" religion or if they "discovered" it. No one will ever know how the exact details came to pass.
Quote 2) One example "The Bible also contains the horrific account of what can only be described as a "biblical holocaust". For, in order to keep the chosen people apart from and unaffected by the alien beliefs and practices of indigenous or neighbouring peoples, when God commanded his chosen people to conquer the Promised Land, he placed city after city 'under the ban" -which meant that every man, woman and child was to be slaughtered at the point of the sword!"
As did almost every other book written during that time including secular centric writings. Religion was just one slice of the pie as a rallying cry to commit to war. Other reasoning as I stated earlier were also responsible. To blame religion entirely or say it was the majority of all killings throughout history and modern times has some hints of truths but to entirely blame religion is relaxing the hand on other motives in which people kill.
QuoteDeut 20:
13 And when the LORD thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword;
14 but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
16 Howbeit of the cities of these peoples, that the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth,
17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee;
Galatians 5:22
~The fruit of the spirit is love, joy and peace.
1st Corinthians 13:4-8
~Love is patient, love is kind, Love does not insist on its own way. Love bears all things, believes all things, Hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.
Isaiah 9:6
~His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
Matthew 22:39
~And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
Like any aspect of life and like every part of known and unknown civilization, be it religion or secular reasons, there are acts of loving kindness and there are acts of horrific acts.
The Bible is not alone in this measure. It's a common integer in any aspect of ourselves as human beings that there are acts of atrocity and acts of kindness. I have shown this in the Buddhist examples, the Christian examples, etc.
And as I pointed out the atheist related atrocities, there has also been generous acts of charity by those who are Atheists. No one thing can be blamed.
Quote 3) And as I mentioned before one must compare apple with apples, 'time', place, killing devices available at the 'time' etc a sword or bow and arrow is no match for a machine gun[basic example]...
Death is death no matter the method applied to it. A life is lost.
Quote 4) Where did I say this ? "On your reckoning "all" religions have blemished pasts[some continue to be tainted as such]...So what's the point of 'religion' [or more to the point people having 'faith' in religion ?]...
The point of religion is the point of the believer. There is no point in religion for someone who does not believe. A believer in a certain religion believes in their diety(ies).
It is up to others who do not believe in that religion to have the respect to allow them to worship. Likewise, it is up to others who do believe in a religion to have respect to those who do not have a faith.
When someone makes fun, belittles, degrades, or find another person's beliefs (or no beliefs) wrong, then we repeat the cycle all over again with intolerance.
QuoteWouldn't it be better if 'civilised' man gradually did away[through means of education] with 'god-centric faith-based' religions ?
As I stated four previous times, no, it would not work. It's been tried before (less than a hundred years ago) and millions of religious people died for their beliefs. When someone believes in something, you cannot weed it out like an antibiotic to bacteria.
And to assume only civilized "man" is civilized because they do not worship a god is narrow minded.
QuoteAfter all, 'they' do tend to be the ones with the most human blood spilled and continue to be/do so!" Annah what I'm discussing here is god-centric faith base religions compared to non theist ones...
As am I. As I explained in numerous posts, blood has been spilled in the name of a particular religion and blood has been spilled in the name of an Atheist action.
Quote 5) All god-centric religions are based upon 'faith' and for the most part it is 'blind faith' requiring no proof whatsoever! A few simple questions[to get my point across] What is god ? and What's god's purpose ? What makes a person believe -have faith in and worship that which is 'unknown' ?
And as I pointed out faith should not be comparable to a ostrich sticking it's head in the sand. When an ostrich does this it has a false security in thinking that if it cannot see the threat then the threat is no longer there.
Faith is so much more deeper than that and it in no way comes close to the allegory of the Ostrich and the Sand. I am not here to convince you nor am I here to explain to you how faith works. You either have faith in something or you don't. I am responding to your posts because your posts exhibits the behavior of exactly what the original poster was asking.
Your answer to eliminating the chances of people fighting over faith and religion as being the right one is to get rid of all of them so that there are no more arguments over the right one, ergo, you become guilty over your own explanations by saying "My non centric God belief has to be the right one because the only way to stop the violence is to get rid of god centric religion." You are being hoisted by your own petard.
QuoteAnnah, being happy is what we 'all' want in life, and if one can find this by believing [or not believing] in a god, so be it...The truth lies within...Know thyself...For it's all the 'mind'...If a person's 'faith' is strong then no matter what I say it would have little if any impact upon them !
And being happy with oneself and others despite faith, religion, politics, etc is a big step to peace.
QuoteBTW I have an understanding but I don't have a 'faith' as such...I think it would be best Annah if you saved your anger/aggression/frustration for those religious people[those who have 'faith' perhaps] who despise trans-people...
1. I am not angry.
2. I am writing to show you that your own philosophy in these matters are showing a sense of "I am right and you are wrong" when my position has been and always will be, one should have the right to worship in anything or have the right to worship in nothing. When someone starts saying, "My religion is right and yours is wrong" or "Atheism is right and religion is wrong" or "My religion is right and Atheism is wrong"; those statements sound exactly the same to me. It shows little respect for diversity.
3. I do not show anger/aggression/frustration for those religious people who despise trans people. I deliver my beliefs and convictions to the table in a manner in which I do not say "I am right and you are wrong and your way is silly." Every denomination in the Christian Church who has accepted LGBT through the witnesses of LGBT church leaders and though the fruits of their labor in these religious institutions. The saw kindness and godliness in people they had once thought to be immoral sinners. Also, our push for a more accurate interpretation of the Koine Greek in relation to homosexuality has helped the ordination of LGBT tremendously. Speaking in regards to the acceptance of LGBT in the church, anger did not win the fight. Patience and understanding did. Yes, there are other denominations who has not accepted the LGBT population but that is their lost not mine.
Every Sunday morning, I put on my clerical collar and deliver the Christian word of God to a Church in Lancaster, PA and a few days later I attend Coven and cite the rede and embrace earth spirituality. I embrace evolution, I embrace all religions, I am a 3rd degree witch and next year an Ordained Christian Pastor.
I attend a Seminary with three Atheists who are my closest friends, my boyfriend is Buddhist, and my Seminarian Vice President is gay and married to the college bookstore Manager. I could not be happier. I am not just saying these words on a forum, I am living out my convictions. I truly enjoy the company of every philosophy out there and I enjoy the company of every type of person as long as they do not disrespect other people's convictions.
