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Yes, you pass. Ummm, no you don't.

Started by JenJen2011, December 16, 2011, 03:17:02 PM

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Eve of chaos

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 17, 2011, 03:18:27 PM
Some practically do.

Okay, DRAG= DRESSED AS GIRL. You presented as once as male, and are now female 24/7.... You're no different than some of them. It isn't all about heavy makeup or looking like DIVINE. Many of the dq's calmed down either look like MIDs or pretty girls.

But I heard you're suggestions and I'll start referencing cosplayers or furries LOL. DQs do it right... They go from looking like gay men to females better than most of the people here do.

big difference
drag=dressing as the opposite gender
if someone has identified as female all their life then when they previously presented as male that would be them in drag.
its never about your physical body. and thats whats really hard to grasp. anything transition is mostly cosmetic its true. but its to ease the pain your body not lining up with who you are.

you seem to think in black and whites. that if you were born with a penis you are male and always will be no matter what.
others see a broader spectrum.
thats all there is to it.

Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on December 17, 2011, 04:51:19 PM
big difference
drag=dressing as the opposite gender
if someone has identified as female all their life then when they previously presented as male that would be them in drag.
its never about your physical body. and thats whats really hard to grasp. anything transition is mostly cosmetic its true. but its to ease the pain your body not lining up with who you are.

you seem to think in black and whites. that if you were born with a penis you are male and always will be no matter what.
others see a broader spectrum.
thats all there is to it.

I was talking about appearance wise.
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Annah

Quote from: MsDazzler on December 17, 2011, 10:19:14 AM
Does this apply to me? lol. I am deaf and use ASL and don't speak, heh.

then you're fine :P

my last girlfriend was deaf, but boy could she talk. That's all she did was talk, talk, talk.
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stldrmgrl

#63
Labels, labels, labels.

Wear what you want, appear how you want.  I call it diversity, personal choice, whatever makes you happy, etc.  Point being, unlabeled.  Why?  We are not robots, diversity is permitted without an instruction manual labeling why.

Trans-women = men in drag 24/7 may be an opinion, but certainly not a fact.  I personally find this comment senseless, and yes, I know this was pertaining to appearance only.  Do I take offense to this?  I would say yes, but the more I think about it, it's obviously only a statement of self-reflection with an attempt to project it elsewhere; happens all the time.  Therefore, due to my lack of overall care to rebuttal and knowing opinion typically does not change, I won't get into why I feel it's a senseless comment.  I'll just say I certainly do not identify as "a man in drag 24/7".
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Annah

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 17, 2011, 02:54:19 PM
Whether trans people want to acknowledge it or not. It is DRAG 24/7. No matter the amount of surgery, hormones, or makeup... Your final results depend on how good of a "boy in drag" you make. Hormones, ffs, etc are just the results of applying the "DRAG" 24/7.

According to webster's dictionary, drag is "Of, relating to, or being a person wearing clothing characteristic of the opposite sex."

Since my opposite sex is male according to my own convictions and philosophies and according to the State of Pennsylvania and the consensus of the United States through the declaration of my Birth Certificate, this would rule me out being "drag." If I were to wear a suit and tie, I would be in drag. If I wore a skirt I would not be in drag. Not every trans person can be correctly associated to drag....especially in today's society when the word "drag" is often associated to a cross dresser or a drag queen/king performer.

QuoteHowever, I see ts women as "women". Even though it's been hard for me to call that person "ma'm"... But to even think a majority of ts women are on the same level as GG's is laughable. If you only have one face, you better make it fabulous. But most ts women don't even do that...Like the girls I saw yesterday, I made it sure they knew they weren't as fab as me.

1. I am on the same level of Genetic women. I have every right they have. So, it is not laughable.
2. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me, a beautiful woman isn't evaluated by how much makeup she has on, the way she applied it, or the brand name of the makeup. For me, beauty is a combination of many things that is unique to each person.
3. The last thing I would ever do is laugh at someone and say they aren't as fab as me. When I was first chair first violinist, I was quite an ass with my pride in high school. I would say just what you were saying "You aren't as good as me." Reality hit me in the face when I went to a National Competition and got blown out of the water. Remember, there are always someone better than you so it's best not to "rub it in" to those you feel is inferior because there will always be someone else who will do the same to you.

QuoteFurthermore, cispeople aren't stupid. I can spot even the best transsexuals because something if always "off".

Your logic isn't sound here. You say you can spot a trans because something is off. Therefore, you only notice the trans people who have a characteristic that could be clocked. There are other trans who blend in perfectly and to assume you can spot every single one of them out is a stretch. I'm sorry, but there are transgirls you will walk right up to you and talk to you and you would not know.

To assume you can clock every trans out there who is "stealth" is a bit presumptuous.

QuoteTS women have to work a million times harder to "pass" as ciswomen. You don't have the option of NOT wearing makeup(SUBTLE makeup makes a huge difference) because you weren't technically born "female" bodywise. Maybe in the mind, but no one can see what is going on in your mind. Therefore, you have to present and impress. Because no effort will always look bad.

I have to disagree with this too. I go without makeup all the time and I haven't been clocked. I think being immersed in an Amish family without makeup is a good indicator that I still "pass." Because, I am sure they would have rained down fires of hell if they discovered a "guy" in an Amish dress living with them.

And if I do wear makeup I spend the same amount of time as every other average woman. Foundation, eyeshadow. Boom done. Fifteen minutes.

Your convictions in this matter is from your own experiences. However, these experiences are not universal just as mine are not.
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Mariposa

Although I have encountered MANY TS Women that couldn't pass on a dark night and were very obviously trans, and as much as I want to approach one of these ladies and very bluntly tell them "That's a wig, B*TCH!", I just can't bring myself to do something like that. SO! I usually just follow by that old saying, "If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it at all.". And I do just that. I don't go out of my way to compliment someone either unless I absolutely think they're jaw-droppingly beautiful and pass without question. I give credit where it is due. And don't even get me started on those girls who fish for compliments! No, no, no M'AM!



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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Mariposa on December 17, 2011, 09:42:39 PM
Although I have encountered MANY TS Women that couldn't pass on a dark night and were very obviously trans, and as much as I want to approach one of these ladies and very bluntly tell them "That's a wig, B*TCH!", I just can't bring myself to do something like that. SO! I usually just follow by that old saying, "If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it at all.". And I do just that. I don't go out of my way to compliment someone either unless I absolutely think they're jaw-droppingly beautiful and pass without question. I give credit where it is due. And don't even get me started on those girls who fish for compliments! No, no, no M'AM!

+1

I've decided not to comment anymore on a lot of the threads. Most of them argue with me anyways... So much for honesty.

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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Annah on December 17, 2011, 07:26:50 PM


Your logic isn't sound here. You say you can spot a trans because something is off. Therefore, you only notice the trans people who have a characteristic that could be clocked. There are other trans who blend in perfectly and to assume you can spot every single one of them out is a stretch. I'm sorry, but there are transgirls you will walk right up to you and talk to you and you would not know.



I have an eye for it. Like this girl who works at MAC Bloomingdales, she looks 100% female...But I know. It's like a feeling I get.

But I comment them if they look really good. I am not a bitch in public. Just on message forums.
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fionabell

Quote from: Mariposa on December 17, 2011, 09:42:39 PM
Although I have encountered MANY TS Women that couldn't pass on a dark night and were very obviously trans, and as much as I want to approach one of these ladies and very bluntly tell them "That's a wig, B*TCH!", I just can't bring myself to do something like that. SO! I usually just follow by that old saying, "If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it at all.". And I do just that. I don't go out of my way to compliment someone either unless I absolutely think they're jaw-droppingly beautiful and pass without question. I give credit where it is due. And don't even get me started on those girls who fish for compliments! No, no, no M'AM!

Maybe you could have followed it when you wrote this post ;)
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Keaira

Honestly, I don't think you can tell who really passes and who doesn't just from a photo.  Like the day I went to see my Endo, I was presenting as myself. And I was seen as female all day. And i did things like Shopping, ate out and got my bangs trimmed. My wife says an Ftm actually asked HER how long she had been on HRT because she looked very passable. She was furious. So I'm giving up on posting photos and asking "Am I passable?" because I guess I accidentally found out in the real world. lol
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Mahsa Tezani

Quote from: Keaira on December 18, 2011, 02:35:14 AM
Honestly, I don't think you can tell who really passes and who doesn't just from a photo.  Like the day I went to see my Endo, I was presenting as myself. And I was seen as female all day. And i did things like Shopping, ate out and got my bangs trimmed. My wife says an Ftm actually asked HER how long she had been on HRT because she looked very passable. She was furious. So I'm giving up on posting photos and asking "Am I passable?" because I guess I accidentally found out in the real world. lol

Most people see me as a girl when I try to cause trouble in the real world. No one ever says, "That boy needs to stop looking for people to fight"
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Siobhan

Quote from: JenJen2011 on December 16, 2011, 03:17:02 PM
Recently I've been reading posts from several girls telling other girls they "totally pass", "definitely pass", "you look all woman", etc and then I look at the pics they're referring to and perhaps something is wrong with my eyes but I just don't see it.

I don't want ya'll to take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to be mean or make any of the girls feel bad, I just don't think it's right that we lie to them. I wonder if these girls are saying it just to be nice? Or maybe my transdar is too strong and I know what to look for? Like some people tell me I pass but I don't see it.

Now, some of these girls are totally pretty but pretty=/=passable. So, maybe they're mixing the two?

I don't know. Maybe someone can enlighten me a bit.
I don't like to judge, (and im certainly not in a position to critique others appearance) but you make a fair point, regrettably some people do just look the same before and after, except in the after It looks like they are wearing a wig, a dress, and some makeup.

I would rather say nothing at all, Im a terrible liar,and sometimes the truth hurts, a LOT, and i just don't have it in me to upset someone like that. Im too much of a softie.
Certainly I could never go up to strangers and do what Mahsa does, It seems cruel to me. Sorry Mahsa, Im not intending to put you down, but i was a little shocked by your post, you probably made those people very upset!

I should imagine that many in the wider world would certainly not be hesitant to point and laugh though, which is why honest feedback is better than imparting false confidence.
I guess in the end being happy with yourself is the most important thing.
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Mariposa

Quote from: fionabell on December 18, 2011, 01:19:42 AM
Maybe you could have followed it when you wrote this post ;)

Hence why I said usually, but I don't always. Good try, though! :P
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tekla

"If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it at all come over here and sit next to me."

A.L. Roosevelt (Teddy's daughter, who also once said of her dad "he wanted to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral."
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Joeyboo~ :3

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MsDazzler

Quote from: Annah on December 17, 2011, 06:15:51 PM
then you're fine :P

my last girlfriend was deaf, but boy could she talk. That's all she did was talk, talk, talk.

do you know sign language?
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Anatta

Kia Ora 'all',

::) What % of your life/time do you spend judging others and what % do you actually get to live it ?

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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monica93304

Quote from: Mariposa on December 17, 2011, 09:42:39 PM
Although I have encountered MANY TS Women that couldn't pass on a dark night and were very obviously trans, and as much as I want to approach one of these ladies and very bluntly tell them "That's a wig, B*TCH!", I just can't bring myself to do something like that. SO! I usually just follow by that old saying, "If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say it at all.". And I do just that. I don't go out of my way to compliment someone either unless I absolutely think they're jaw-droppingly beautiful and pass without question. I give credit where it is due. And don't even get me started on those girls who fish for compliments! No, no, no M'AM!


Girl I agree with you 100 percent! 
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Jen61

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 17, 2011, 09:57:03 PM
I have an eye for it. Like this girl who works at MAC Bloomingdales, she looks 100% female...But I know. It's like a feeling I get.

But I comment them if they look really good. I am not a bitch in public. Just on message forums.

I am supposed to be in SF on the spring, end of march, maybe we can have a cup of coffe
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Annah

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