9 days after FFS is way too early to decide you hate it. At the least I'd think it's going to take 2-3 months for the swelling to go down completely, muscles and bones to settle in, etc.

Before the surgery, you "obsessed" over FFS....now that it's done, you are "panicking." Obsession and panic are two edges of the same behavior-sword: One is before the event, the other is after. That is a personality issue you should address, lest you repeat another obsession/panic event.

imho

Quote from: Annah on April 09, 2012, 05:24:22 PM
If Sexual Reassignment surgery and Hormone replacement therapy were to ever require no gateway,

I started HRT without gatekeeping... and I'll be getting my orchie soon without gatekeeping...

I'm very happy for it also. I don't have issues and am an adult who can make choices.

I think therapy should always be available for those who aren't sure or feel they need help. But, forcing everyone to stop because some people can't take responsibility for their lives is... bad.

We have a great deal of life changing choices to make as we live... should everyone who wants to have a child be forced to see a therapist as well?

Quote from: Stephe on April 09, 2012, 06:30:18 PM
Two problems here:

First people can lie to a therapist, and do, so this doesn't stop people from making a bad choice for themselves.

Secondly, people DO have to take responsibility for their own actions.

This is no different than if some female wants BA, asks for giant boobs and then is sorry. Should women have to have therapy before they have BA or other cosmetic procedures?

I was ready for HRT, had been living full time for years yet had to wait months to have expensive therapy completed that was insulting to have to go through. The therapist was trying to blame my being the way I am on hatred for my now dead mother? O.o And she was/is trans herself so I have no clue where all that came from. Wanted me to join group therapy etc. It was just stupid.

As far as GRS, I still believe it should be up to the doctor to decided if a patient is ready or needs more/some therapy first. I feel if someone has been living full time for years, they pretty much know if they want to be a woman or not and what this entails. I find it silly that if I decided I wanted GRS, I'd likely have to go through 6 months of weekly therapy before I would get approved, when there is no issues with my gender identity I need or care to discuss with some stranger. I do agree that someone who is still living as a man, has a male legal name and wanted FFS, BA or GRS, that -should- be a huge red flag that this person isn't ready.

I think for people who are already transitioned into living full time as their chosen gender, these gatekeepers are just nonsense.

I think this is the first time I've said this but....

Great post, by and large I completely agree with you.

The only disagreement I have is I think people should take on more responsibility. It's absurd that we are forced to let psychiatrists and doctors line their pockets with our money when we are fully knowledgeable and competent in what we're doing, just to prevent SOME people making mistakes, which they can do anyway through deception.

When I did my transition, I didn't follow my psychs advice, my first two psychs discouraged me from doing anything for at least a year, I ignored them, never regretted it for a moment.

It's no better punishing the competent for the actions of those whom are not than the reverse. At least with personal responsibility it's fairer.

To the original poster, I'm sorry you regret your decision, and I honestly do hope things get better, but please try not to generalize your experiences into everyone's experiences.

Quote from: Stephe on April 09, 2012, 09:26:46 PM
Well it was a huge waste of money for me. Don't assume everyone needs someone else to tell them what they need to do with their lives.

And don't assume just because you didn't need the help, that everyone else is like you.

It is better to err on the side of caution and careful planning than to jump in without advice or counsel.

I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT. What I am saying that there are times when people need guidance and advice and therapists and others are good outlets for that.

By saying, "Well, I didn't need any help so it should be like that for everyone" is a recipe for disaster.

Better safe than sorry.

Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 08:03:10 AM
And don't assume just because you didn't need the help, that everyone else is like you.

It is better to err on the side of caution and careful planning than to jump in without advice or counsel.

I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT. What I am saying that there are times when people need guidance and advice and therapists and others are good outlets for that.

By saying, "Well, I didn't need any help so it should be like that for everyone" is a recipe for disaster.

That works both ways, don't assume because you did need the help that everyone else is like you.

Nobody is saying that the removal of gatekeepers means people shouldn't be able to seek out psychological counselling and therapy. Just that it should be our choice, and it should.

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on April 10, 2012, 08:34:23 AM
That works both ways, don't assume because you did need the help that everyone else is like you.

Nobody is saying that the removal of gatekeepers means people shouldn't be able to seek out psychological counselling and therapy. Just that it should be our choice, and it should.

as I mentioned, it is better to err on the side of caution than taking the plunge thinking you got it handled then realizing you don't after the surgery.

I'd rather spend a couple hundred dollars more on talking about it to a therapist than to spend a lifetime of regret because I had surgery that cost from 10K to 40K and assumed I was ready for it.

Am I saying the OP is going to regret it forever? No.
Am I saying Gatekeepers should be mandatory? No.
What I am saying is, it's best to approach someone to keep you grounded and focused than to take a plunge without the bungee chord.

Sites like this is a blessing and a curse.

It's a blessing because you have others in similiar circumstances where you can share your stories, experiences, and advice.

It's a curse because a reader can read all these things about FFS, BA, HRT, SRS, Body modifications, etc etc and assumed because Person A didn't need social help with it then it will be ok for the reader.

Quote from: MacKenzie on April 09, 2012, 06:16:23 PMyour lucky you didn't go to Dr.Z and end up with a completely different face.

I went with Dr. Z and don't have a completely different face.

I think depression does hit hard post surgery. It definitely did for me. But is it normal for one to wish they hadn't done it AND wish they could go back to being a guy? I never felt that way.

Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 08:03:10 AM
I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT.

In your earlier post you did.

Quote from: Annah on April 09, 2012, 05:24:22 PM
I think what Tekla was trying to say is that FFS requires no gatekeeping and there has been people who jumped right into the surgery without considering extensive types of therapies to see if they are really ready for it.

If Sexual Reassignment surgery and Hormone replacement therapy were to ever require no gateway, then similar things could happen to someone who gets SRS and then realize they are not ready for it. Gateways are there to make sure you know you are ready. Many people do not like gateways because they think it's about people who want to siphon money from you via therapy sessions but, in reality, they are there to make sure you know what you are going through and what is going to happen.

Tekla knows FFS doesn't require gatekeepers but if SRS were to become like FFS, you'll have those same type of issues.

You said above you feel extensive therapy is needed for GRS and support these gatekeepers. Then also said you feel they should be required for other things as well. Later you are saying; Maybe it would be a good idea for some people? Gatekeeper = everyone has to go through this no matter what.

Do I need to post links to the people who went through these extensive therapies and still regret their choice?? Oh yeah, at least then they can blame the doctors and therapists rather than take responsibility for their own choices.. Maybe even sue them! Oh joy!!

Quote from: JenJen2011 on April 10, 2012, 08:58:46 AM
I think depression does hit hard post surgery. It definitely did for me. But is it normal for one to wish they hadn't done it AND wish they could go back to being a guy? I never felt that way.

True, I was laying on the couch thinking "what have I done" while dealing with some pain and weirdness from anesthesia. But returning to being a guy or wishing I could look more like my old guy self never entered my mind.

My therapist used to complain about all the requirements for bottom surgery being there while surgeries that change so much about how you look to others virtually had none other than having the money to do it.  Its easy to see what she meant by it.


I'm all for some rle time before having any surgery at all, just to help someone be sure that living as a woman is what they want/need.

I hope the op finds some peace with their choices soon.

Well, I told you didn't I? I'm in the same situation as you were before your op, except that my situation has been developing for the past 3 years. At first I also wanted the whole FFS package including taking down my jaw a couple cm but over time had realised these adjustments would in no way compliment my facial shape or other features.  I mean, did you ever visualise your appearance with a tiny jaw, or lack of nose bridge? Maybe you only noticed natal women with these features, which is what I did. Didn't pay attention to the fact that their whole faces are much shorter, rounder... things you can't aquire through surgery. I've gone from wanting all the procedures you had, to only the ones that compliment me both as male and female. So no crazy jaw/nose/chin removals or drag queen over-the-rainbow eyebrows.

IIRC you've been on this forum for like 8 months? You rushed into this way too quickly and put too much faith into cosmetic surgeons. Maybe going on HRT for at least 2 years would have made a difference mentally, but sadly you were only interested in what it would change physically and wanted changes too soon so rejected any proposals to think this through thoroughly.

That being said, you're still swollen especially on the lips, while you're waiting for it to go down it's probably a good idea to work on your voice and mannerisms. A lot of people get depressed when they drastically change their appearance, at least now you have an incentive work on everything else. You might be thinking that transition was a bad idea but it's probably just a result from shock, I think if you give your face time to heal, get your voice/mannerisms sorted and do your hair/makeup (once healed) you may be happier.

Quote from: Jaime on April 10, 2012, 09:55:44 AM
My therapist used to complain about all the requirements for bottom surgery being there while surgeries that change so much about how you look to others virtually had none other than having the money to do it.  Its easy to see what she meant by it.


I'm all for some rle time before having any surgery at all, just to help someone be sure that living as a woman is what they want/need.

I hope the op finds some peace with their choices soon.

Exactly

Quote from: Stephe on April 10, 2012, 09:20:48 AM
In your earlier post you did.

You said above you feel extensive therapy is needed for GRS and support these gatekeepers. Then also said you feel they should be required for other things as well. Later you are saying; Maybe it would be a good idea for some people? Gatekeeper = everyone has to go through this no matter what.

Do I need to post links to the people who went through these extensive therapies and still regret their choice?? Oh yeah, at least then they can blame the doctors and therapists rather than take responsibility for their own choices.. Maybe even sue them! Oh joy!!

you gotta work on that reading comprehension. Reread my post again or have a friend read it for you. That's all I am saying about that and I'm moving on. No point in bantering back and forth if you don't get what I'm trying to say.

Surgeons tend to believe surgery is solution.  Dr. Z really changed my face.  I could not enter or exit a foreign country even in boy mode with my passport picture.  I like my new face but a nose job and hair transplant would have gotten me to same place and been much cheaper and less painful.  It will take a full year for soft tissue to heal.  Five months and still do not have full mobility of mouth.  Also asked to have saggy part of top reduced and surgeons reduce saggy by enhancing.  Second surgery couple weeks after major surgery is illogical. 

At least 10% of trans community suffers mild autism.  I am in that group.    FFS was OCD for me and then sheer panic.  It calms down with a little time.

Totally agree with having honest and competent gatekeepers.   My recent mentor had a corrupt gatekeeper.   It was sad to see a corrupt gatekeeper line his pockets off her suffering and that of other trans people.  My gate keeper is very competent and gave me a letter for an orchi after five years on HRT.  It was all good and correct decision.

Finally what I learned from my last ordeal was spiritual enlightenment.  Our spirit lives forever but our brain and body die.  My gender issues are illogical and I am trying to solve with logic.  We can not be at peace if we are not ourselves but FFS in itself does not mean peace. 

Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 08:03:10 AM
And don't assume just because you didn't need the help, that everyone else is like you.

It is better to err on the side of caution and careful planning than to jump in without advice or counsel.

I am not saying that gatekeepers is a MUST BE REQUIREMENT. What I am saying that there are times when people need guidance and advice and therapists and others are good outlets for that..

Here is the thing... we all warned her to slow down (multiple times in different threads she started here)...

Anddd, she just ignored everything and did it anyway.

Like I said, there are LOTS of choices we make in life... people go to vegas and spend their entire life savings... should we require people see a therapist for months before being able to go into a casino?

But, either way, the OP will adjust to things and be happy after the swelling goes down She is just overwhelmed with everything ATM. I get overwhelmed a lot too, and I'm going super slow with only minor changes !

Quote from: Annah on April 10, 2012, 11:20:55 AM
you gotta work on that reading comprehension. Reread my post again or have a friend read it for you. That's all I am saying about that and I'm moving on. No point in bantering back and forth if you don't get what I'm trying to say.

  I read exactly what you said. Then you decide to stoop to personal insults.

Maybe you can explain how: this isn't someone saying they are in favor of gatekeepers? If that's not what you are saying, it's what you posted yesterday.

"If Sexual Reassignment surgery and Hormone replacement therapy were to ever require no gateway, then similar things could happen to someone who gets SRS and then realize they are not ready for it. Gateways are there to make sure you know you are ready. Many people do not like gateways because they think it's about people who want to siphon money from you via therapy sessions but, in reality, they are there to make sure you know what you are going through and what is going to happen."

Sigh... Oh, well. I'm sure that when you calm down, you'll either like it or just vaguely regret it, nothing more. It can't be so terrible.

Take your time to reflect upon this. And if you really think this was a big mistake, there's still the possibility of a facial masculinisation surgery. Less popular and probably complicated by the previous procedure, but nevertheless possible. If you had the money to just go for it and get FFS, I guess you can afford this.

And see a therapist or doctor. Decisions made in haste + little thought put into a project + large amounts of money spent with little planning + large amounts of anxiety and regrets afterwards = you need help.

Quote from: A on April 10, 2012, 05:26:13 PM
Sigh... Oh, well. I'm sure that when you calm down, you'll either like it or just vaguely regret it, nothing more. It can't be so terrible.

Take your time to reflect upon this. And if you really think this was a big mistake, there's still the possibility of a facial masculinisation surgery. Less popular and probably complicated by the previous procedure, but nevertheless possible. If you had the money to just go for it and get FFS, I guess you can afford this.

And see a therapist or doctor. Decisions made in haste + little thought put into a project + large amounts of money spent with little planning + large amounts of anxiety and regrets afterwards = you need help.

well since they are so young they could take extra testosterone and look all manly with a grubby beard in no time.. gaggg ,,, thats whats gonna happen anyway...