Quote from: Naturally Blonde on April 11, 2012, 09:14:22 AM
The question doesn't relate to me. I was never a strong dominant male and always assumed a female persona. I would never want any 'male privilege' and the thread poster assumes that all transsexuals are full on red blooded males before they transition which is a very shallow and nieve viewpoint.

1. "All" can be a very dangerous term which why I don't use especially when referring to groups of people.

2. You are assuming that I assume that "all transsexuals are full on red blooded males before they transition".  That is a statement I do not believe in so your assumption is false.

Btw, I would assume that most people do have red blood running in their system before they transition.....at least that's what the labwork says. 

Quote from: Malachite on April 10, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
Hi there I hope I'm not intruding on anything and I didn't know the best way to to word this question in the title.  I hope no one finds this question offensive.

Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

Very intersting question Malachite. I enjoyed and was surprised by the responses. I am going to be frank and perhaps blunt, and I apologize if I sound arrogant, but I am just sharing my memories and experiences.

You know the guy all girls want to date? That was me,
You know the guy who was the best athlete/fighter in the school? that was me
You know the guy who was always good at everything? that was me...you get the idea

Yes, as an alpha-male, you get used to -and expect-  people to pay attention to you, and to give you what you think you deserve. So, I persued a technical career with a people-to-people interaction angle; and yes, to get ahead of the rest, you have to be aggressive and assertive, but as a white male, you do have an advantage, and you do enjoy benefits. I always had a "dominant strong male" mentor coaching me.

The flip side of the coin is that much is expected from you, from family, spouse, friends, bosses, and coworkers. So, to retain those privilege you have to deliver the goods baby!  This not only means money, but protection, psychological support, etc, etc, etc

So what happened to me when I dropped the "male"  role? Well, nothing ! I just went went from "dominant strong male" to "dominant strong female."

Quote from: peky on April 11, 2012, 01:39:06 PM
Very intersting question Malachite. I enjoyed and was surprised by the responses. I am going to be frank and perhaps blunt, and I apologize if I sound arrogant, but I am just sharing my memories and experiences.

You know the guy all girls want to date? That was me,
You know the guy who was the best athlete/fighter in the school? that was me
You know the guy who was always good at everything? that was me...you get the idea

Yes, as an alpha-male, you get used to -and expect-  people to pay attention to you, and to give you what you think you deserve. So, I persued a technical career with a people-to-people interaction angle; and yes, to get ahead of the rest, you have to be aggressive and assertive, but as a white male, you do have an advantage, and you do enjoy benefits. I always had a "dominant strong male" mentor coaching me.

The flip side of the coin is that much is expected from you, from family, spouse, friends, bosses, and coworkers. So, to retain those privilege you have to deliver the goods baby!  This not only means money, but protection, psychological support, etc, etc, etc

So what happened to me when I dropped the "male"  role? Well, nothing ! I just went went from "dominant strong male" to "dominant strong female."

you alpha peeps.. and i could never understand a successful person transitioning.. seems like a total choice verses a desire/need for survival...

myself i have stayed single and celibate for the last 14 yrs post op to allow my inner child a chance to regrow into the person i am today which i have grown to love as i see other good healthy people who also love me here where i live..

going from adult male to adult female baffles my mind..

Quote from: Jaime on April 11, 2012, 12:48:18 PM
It seems that one group of people are always whining about privilege being given to another group while just as often it comes across as pure jealousy over what they perceive as an advantage whether it really is or not.

Go tell that to the women in Afghanistan.

Quote from: Amazon D on April 11, 2012, 01:53:50 PM
you alpha peeps.. and i could never understand a successful person transitioning.. seems like a total choice verses a desire/need for survival...

What does being "successful" or not have to do with GID and needing to transition? Does someone have to be homeless, beat up and bullied to "need" to transition?

Are only weak, shy, introverted people allowed to do be women? Sorry but I am the same strong, dominant person I was before I transitioned. I boss people around and expect to have people listen to me. And mostly they do. This whole -you have to be weak, shy and demure if you're a woman- is a sickening stereotype and an insult to every woman on the planet. If what most of you gals have posted here is true, people like Hillary Clinton are men!

Quote from: Stephe on April 11, 2012, 02:32:58 PM
I boss people around and expect to have people listen to me. And mostly they do.

Do you also have a whip and like to be called Mistress?

It's a fair point though. Your personality type goes further in defining who you are than how big your bank balance is. Extroverted or introverted makes little difference as far as whether you recognise your reflection in a mirror or if your physiology feels right or wrong.

All roads lead to Rome, as it were.

Quote from: Stephe on April 11, 2012, 02:32:58 PM
What does being "successful" or not have to do with GID and needing to transition? Does someone have to be homeless, beat up and bullied to "need" to transition?

Are only weak, shy, introverted people allowed to do be women? Sorry but I am the same strong, dominant person I was before I transitioned. I boss people around and expect to have people listen to me. And mostly they do. This whole -you have to be weak, shy and demure if you're a woman- is a sickening stereotype and an insult to every woman on the planet. If what most of you gals have posted here is true, people like Hillary Clinton are men!

you mis read what i meant. I never said they had to be weak or demure.. I just meant that a successful person didn't seem to me to need to tranmsition.. Most of the people i know who did did it because it was either that or die..

Quote from: Amazon D on April 11, 2012, 01:53:50 PM
you alpha peeps.. and i could never understand a successful person transitioning.. seems like a total choice verses a desire/need for survival...

No.

What you do not appreciate is that for many of us, the 'alpha' was a way to mask our failure. To hide from the awful, horrible truth that you were weird, that there was something wrong with you, that you were clearly some kind of freak or nutter or something. Anything other than face up to the truth.

So you sublimate the desire for change by being big, loud, strong and masculine. You work hard, you play hard, you study hard. You fall into bed every night with your mind utterly exhausted so you do not have to lie awake and think of everything that is wrong with your life. Of the hell that every living day is for you. If you are not tired you read until your eyes are sore and you cannot stay awake, but what you never EVER do is reflect on your inner self. You ignore all your own desires and feelings and substitute risks, thrills and excitement instead. You date, you marry, you have kids, you become a successful pillar of your family and community. People look up to you because you are such an achiever.

But it is all a lie.

And then one day something happens. Something both wonderful and awful. You admit the truth to yourself and the lie is over, but then a new hell begins where you lose everything that you spent a lifetime gaining - except for one thing. You become your true self.

Is it worth it?

Is there a choice?

It's a great question. It was only in the last year that I really got into what privilege means in the U.S. When I decided to transition I was fully aware of what I was giving up. Being a white, well-educated, male provided me with a lot of privilege. However, I gladly give it up. The day I am ma'amed and my opinion not so readily listened to will be a good day for me

Seriously though, living in a woman's world is worth everything to me, and I gladly hand over that privilege that was formally mine. Plus, I still have the high income, high education, white privilege! Woohoo!

P.S. Sorry if my levity was inappropriate

Quote from: Amazon D on April 11, 2012, 03:06:56 PM
you mis read what i meant. I never said they had to be weak or demure.. I just meant that a successful person didn't seem to me to need to tranmsition.. Most of the people i know who did did it because it was either that or die..

Equating "need to transition" with success is confusing as hell. 

I actually think this speaks to a drill-down question from Mal's initial inquiry:

If you are considered successful in your life and some of that success could be attributed to the perceptions and manifestations of male privilege, what does losing that during transition represent?

A few folks have suggested that it simply migrated for them, which I find fascinating and interesting as hell.

-Miki

Quote from: Beverley on April 11, 2012, 03:13:09 PM
What you do not appreciate is that for many of us, the 'alpha' was a way to mask our failure. To hide from the awful, horrible truth that you were weird, that there was something wrong with you, that you were clearly some kind of freak or nutter or something. Anything other than face up to the truth.

This, this, this. 

Said far better than I managed.

-Miki

Quote from: tara tricks on April 11, 2012, 03:15:13 PM
It's a great question. It was only in the last year that I really got into what privilege means in the U.S. When I decided to transition I was fully aware of what I was giving up. Being a white, well-educated, male provided me with a lot of privilege. However, I gladly give it up. The day I am ma'amed and my opinion not so readily listened to will be a good day for me

Seriously though, living in a woman's world is worth everything to me, and I gladly hand over that privilege that was formally mine. Plus, I still have the high income, high education, white privilege! Woohoo!

P.S. Sorry if my levity was inappropriate

I don't think it was inappropriate at all along with peky's answer.  I was looking for some types of answers like those as I'm really curious to understand it since I'm on the otherside of the railroad.

Quote from: Beverley on April 11, 2012, 03:13:09 PM
No.

What you do not appreciate is that for many of us, the 'alpha' was a way to mask our failure. To hide from the awful, horrible truth that you were weird, that there was something wrong with you, that you were clearly some kind of freak or nutter or something. Anything other than face up to the truth.

So you sublimate the desire for change by being big, loud, strong and masculine. You work hard, you play hard, you study hard. You fall into bed every night with your mind utterly exhausted so you do not have to lie awake and think of everything that is wrong with your life. Of the hell that every living day is for you. If you are not tired you read until your eyes are sore and you cannot stay awake, but what you never EVER do is reflect on your inner self. You ignore all your own desires and feelings and substitute risks, thrills and excitement instead. You date, you marry, you have kids, you become a successful pillar of your family and community. People look up to you because you are such an achiever.

But it is all a lie.

And then one day something happens. Something both wonderful and awful. You admit the truth to yourself and the lie is over, but then a new hell begins where you lose everything that you spent a lifetime gaining - except for one thing. You become your true self.

Is it worth it?

Is there a choice?

Not quiet my story. Although I was the leader, I was funny and compassionate (I am still), so I was not the proverbial strong and abusive, but rather strong and protective. Also important in my life is the fact that since since puberty I was "out" to anybody who got to meet me (even casually). People thought I was doing to get attention, others (males) thought I was doing it to get in the girl's pants, my parents thought I was gay, but the reality was I was just myself (and still are).
I did loose a partner of many years because she could not longer live with a "lesbian" story, but you know what, lives goes on, my journey continues, I have my kids and that is a lot.

Quote from: Amazon D on April 11, 2012, 03:06:56 PM
you mis read what i meant. I never said they had to be weak or demure.. I just meant that a successful person didn't seem to me to need to tranmsition.. Most of the people i know who did did it because it was either that or die..

Agreed.

Quote from: Beverley on April 11, 2012, 03:13:09 PM
No.

What you do not appreciate is that for many of us, the 'alpha' was a way to mask our failure. To hide from the awful, horrible truth that you were weird, that there was something wrong with you, that you were clearly some kind of freak or nutter or something. Anything other than face up to the truth.

So you sublimate the desire for change by being big, loud, strong and masculine. You work hard, you play hard, you study hard. You fall into bed every night with your mind utterly exhausted so you do not have to lie awake and think of everything that is wrong with your life. Of the hell that every living day is for you. If you are not tired you read until your eyes are sore and you cannot stay awake, but what you never EVER do is reflect on your inner self. You ignore all your own desires and feelings and substitute risks, thrills and excitement instead. You date, you marry, you have kids, you become a successful pillar of your family and community. People look up to you because you are such an achiever.

But it is all a lie.

  Really? 

Quote from: Sephirah on April 11, 2012, 02:53:58 PM
Do you also have a whip and like to be called Mistress?

Sometimes lol.

I don't feel it's my place to -not understand how someone would kill themselves over this- just because I never felt that way. And should only the extreme cases where people threaten to commit suicide be allowed to transition? I'm amazed sometimes when I read what people post on gender forums and maybe I'm just not like most other transpeople?

Quote from: MacKenzie on April 11, 2012, 05:02:33 PM
  Really? 

I write about my experiences. Yours may differ.

See that's why I never wanted male privilege... You have to achieve stuff. Yuck.

Luckily nobody ever took me very seriously as a guy. I mean without a doubt I was male in gender, but people always treated me like that wasn't necessarily all there is to the picture.

Am I the only one who finds myself occasionally missing my male privilege? I mean don't get me wrong, I'd never want to detransition or be a boy again (yuck!) I just
Find myself in certain situations wishing for my male authority, wishing people would take me more seriously, stuff like that!

I was a very athletic boy, state pole-vaulter / swimmer. Transitioned at 19 and had really good results I'm 5'7 and very passable.

Sorry I don't post much.

Quote from: Malachite on April 11, 2012, 01:21:42 PM
1. "All" can be a very dangerous term which why I don't use especially when referring to groups of people.

2. You are assuming that I assume that "all transsexuals are full on red blooded males before they transition".  That is a statement I do not believe in so your assumption is false.

Ok, so why didn't you provide an alternative like 'were you submissive and weak and feminine' in your question, then I could then relate to the question more.

Quote from: Malachite on April 10, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

I have no idea what "male privlilege" means and I have no experience of being a 'dominant strong male' and I detested any male conditioning and didn't comply with it.  Many of us came through a totally different route and find it hard to relate to your dominant male viewpoint.

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on April 13, 2012, 09:55:15 AM
Ok, so why didn't you provide an alternative like 'were you submissive and weak and feminine' in your question, then I could then relate to the question more.

I have no idea what "male privlilege" means and I have no experience of being a 'dominant strong male' and I detested any male conditioning and didn't comply with it. Many of us came through a totally different route and find it hard to relate to your dominant male viewpoint.

Because in some societies, the "male" is still seen typically as "dominate" even though there are many less dominate males.

No doubt many people come from different backgrounds and that's understandable.  In that case then there's not much of a point to answering the question but I'm basically getting at what Beverley was saying to mask failure with alpha dominance because it happens.


Btw I never said my "dominant male viewpoint".  I specifically distinguished as what "some may say".