Hi all. I'm not really sure what's going on with me at the moment but while I'd still describe myself as androgynous (I've got those softer emotions and my genderblindness) I honestly don't know if I'm really an androgyne. I was going to say I'm not even sure I'm in the T* community, but now that I think about it I probably fit in the part of genderquer that doesn't involve gender identity. That counts, right?

Something's been bothering me for a bit now and I'm not quite sure what it is. It may be that was trying to fit a self-defined mold and so in an odd way I was making myself conform to not conforming. But aside from that, I'm seriously considering that I freaked out about my softer side to the point that I couldn't really see things clearly.

See, it really hit home about 10 or 11 (those are still rough guesses, hopefully one day I'll be able to remember fairly clearly) that I had emotions that the other boys didn't seem to have. I still remember being about 4 and bawling my eyes out listening to "Day Is Done" by Peter, Paul, and Mary. My mother sometimes played the record (45) for me twice in a row, but she put her foot down about playing it three times. I got the message very clearly (from who?) that not only aren't boys like that, they shouldn't be like that? I've always been inclined to believe The Establishment unless I knew otherwise, so naturally the problem was with me. By the time I was 13 I was so tired of having to hide those emotions. But I never really talked to anyone about them. And you know what kids do with half-truths and rumors. They put them together in ways that defy adult logic.

It's possible that my crossdressing was a side effect of not being able to handle these emotions and not having a good perspective of them. The beginning of my crossdressing may actually be my "I feel like a girl" stage. It's possible I believed that if I had certain emotions then it naturally followed that I had certain feelings also, so sure enough I began to feel them.

Anyway, when I was 18 or 20 I took my emotions, my genderblindness, my crossdressing, and my "other feelings" and deduced that since this didn't match being a guy and I didn't feel like a woman, then I must be something else. I have to also add that my model of what a man is wasn't something I wanted to emulate, and I still don't. But if my "other feelings" came from my crossdressing which in turn came from not understanding and not being able to deal with my softer emotions, I'm left with those softer emotions and my genderblindness. There's probably a few more things in there too. But those would seem to add up to being an androgynous man, not an androgyne. And a few days ago I truly felt like a man.

But there's something else going on, some dark battle I don't really understand. I laid Casey to rest, saying that Casey was somebody I never really was. I considered "literally" buryig Casey (a favorite pair of undies) but I couldn't think of a good reason to be digging, and I didn't want to explain that I was burying something. So Casey was dead, if someone who never really existed can be said to be dead, and that should have been the end of it. Some sadness at losing my support group and such, but some joy at discovering my true self.

But I started burying Mike too. I tried to delete my account here, and I left another forum. Then I tried to delete both my web e-mail accounts. And one or two darker things. So if I never really was Casey, why does mike have to "die" too?

I don't know what's going on. But I'm trying to figure it out.

Hmm, sounds complicated.  Perhaps you should try not defining a construct and live on a moment-to-moment basis and do what makes you happy whther it be something feminine or masculine?  Why do you have to "bury" anyone?  Aren't you just 1 consciousness that sometimes feels like being male and sometimes feels like being female?  Unless you have a split personality, I would just try living in a way that feels right without any formalities.

It *feels* complicated. I had a session with my therapist this afternoon and he suggested I do exactly what you're suggesting. So right now I'm trying not to worry about whether I'm an androgynous man or an androgyne or a non-transgendered genderqueer person or whatever. And since I don't know which feelings are real and which ones aren't right now, I'm just going to float for a while and see what happens.

Based on what I've done in the past, burying *anybody* is a strong signal that I'm punishing myself. I'm making me go away, not allowing myself to have any connections to other people. That's why I don't really know how I feel right now. If I really never was Casey (and that's a possibility) I could be sad about some of the things I'd be losing (support group, etc.) but it should feel right. Instead, it feels sad and angry. I put all my clothes in the closet in boxes and put things on top of them. I have to work to get anything back out. So it doesn't really feel like closing a chapter, it feels like I'm expunging Casey. I don't like the emotions behind that.

I also don't like that I'm trying to expunge who I think I am. Why would I cut off all ties and "crawl back under my rock"? That's the phrase I keep catching myself saying. I don't really care what I call myself. I'm not getting rid of those emotions. So why the violent ends, and why the forced isolation? I was also going to send an e-mail saying that somebody had been claiming to be me, and you shouldn't believe anything you read on this site that this imposter posted. I understand that's my attempt to make people want to push me away, but what's that all about?

Not too long ago (just a few days) I could watch a movie and identify some with some of the male and female characters. Now I don't feel a connection to any charatcer. I don't even see people walking down the street and wish I was them, male or female. I cut my nails savagely, and I didn't (refused to?) see anything about my body that wasn't totally male.

Sounds like a complicated deep battle. The urge you have to bury "sides of you" I think is common too. I kinda think like you mention, that it possibly is a way to punish yourself. I dont know if I have similar experiences in my past. I think its something that at least I developed in hiding and purging the feminine side of me multiple times up to my college age and up to a few years ago. Also it was a way for me not to deal with the emotions. The feminine side of me had no experience dealing with bad emotions. Just happy and joyous emotions. Whenever fear, pain, loneliness, discouragment, or effort came along, I could easily pack it up, throw it away, or hide it. Always adding on to the inner conflict of piled up undealt with emotions. I had never dealt with displeasure openly with the feminine side of me, and doing so was almost... terrifying. I mean what does one do when that which has brought such joy, freedom, and pleasure suddenly feels absolute pain, suffering, loneliness, discouragment, and lack of hope. And has to face relationship strains and make a living in a complex world. I dont know if any of this helps. If not just discard it.

I understand, but there's no reason you have to be the same all the time.  Fluidity is perfectly acceptable and you shouldn't limit yourself from the possibility of living a more feminine life just because you don't feel that way now.  Your feelings may always change in the future and I think your feelings are telling you that.

Actually, that helps a lot. I was on an emotional rollercoaster for a week. Besides the mental and emotional strain of that, although I was comfortable holding my grandfather's hand when he was on his death bed (he didn't die) I was a bit uncomfortable around my aunts and uncles when they came up to visit him. The last time I saw them I wasn't out to anybody yet. I remember being afraid still of saying anything and I didn't want to let anything slip, mostly by my actions. So I was trying to "hide" but at the same time I felt that hiding wasn't being true to me either. And I remember sitting there thinking how stupid I looked, even if I was the only one who really knew how I was dressed. (The pants I had on could easily pass as men's jeans, and my polo shirts were "soft" even if I did buy them in the men's department. The effect was not to bash you over the head with the colors but to make it fairly plain that they weren't just one-off shirts.) I've dealt with things as a guy before (both of my grandmothers are gone) but I haven't had to deal with anything this intense since coming out to even myself.

Irregardless of what I actually am, it could be that I was both scared about dealing with things as Casey and then pissed at Mike for hiding Casey, trying to shove hir into a corner. I would have felt the same way whether I'm an androgyne or a man: I would have held my grandfather's hand and not cared what my immediate family thought, knowing that it's what I wanted to do and something that showed my grandfather that I loved him and was literally there for him. My softer emotions have been "happy" ones too: comforting someone, taking care of them, making them happy. Faced with such strong negative emotions (e.g. pain and potential loss) I knew what I wanted to do but still kind of freaked out about it, and maybe I freaked out about freaking out.

Maybe the stress of those prior 7 days was just too much, and something I could normally have worked through became something I couldn't deal with.

Well, there's one bright side. When I get destructive I only get SELF destructive. That makes taking care of the aftermath easier. (Yeah, it's dark humor but I haven't had a non-sarcastic/venting chuckle in a while.)

Melissa, I don't plan to rule anything out. I did, but that doesn't feel right. I'm me, and I think I need to just put myself on autopilot for a while and just let things happen. I don't know what will happen. But you know, I'm willing to go along for the ride.

Holding your grandfather's hand on his deathbed with relatives all around you, sounds very earthshaking. Casey probably has never dealt with such issue and has no tools for helping you through it. And being in conflict with Mike even makes things worse it sounds like. On top of the problems  of just being around the family and possible death of your grandfather. And your desire to show your grandfather that you love him and am there for him. Yes I can see how once freaking out can lead to further freaking out about it.

Things which help me now that I didnt do before vary. When things get really tough I seek out a nice bubble bath with candles and soft music (maybe music like in the way that the music affected you when you were 4). A place to let the stress melt out. A sanctuary from the world. There are also a few images I remember that help me to gain strength, solace, comfort, and balance. But even with such methods like that, when things get really hard, I myself to become overwhelmed. We are all entitled to feeling overwhelmed sometimes.

For physical exertion I like exercise now. Beats punching holes in walls and breaking things. Though tempted sometimes, I havent destroyed anything in a long time.

Writing in my journal helps me explore my thoughts, feelings, and intuition of my emotions of the pain and troubled times. Beats keeping it closed up, or redirecting it verbally at my gf (though sometimes I still do that).

I have to fill my mind with positive energy too. I have 2 books that when I read them gives me positive energy. I also have 1 movie that I like to watch. Beats eating and being exhausted (though sometimes am so exhausted that sleeping, watching tv, and playing video games is my outlet).

Talking now is much more important to me then before. I talk to my girlfriend to gain emotional support. Also I talk to the girls at work that sometimes give emotional support. And they at least understand a bit.

No matter which methods I use, identifying 'why' I feel a certain way, and 'allow' me to feel that way is the initial and ongoing thing I do now.

These tools and methods I never used back before. They dont always work. We all are entitle to feeling really down sometimes (which I still do).  Certainly they arent just "girl" methods, but they do allow me to work with emotions and feelings better, which I didnt do before.

The least we can do here is listen to your feelings and thoughts about your experiences now.

Quote from: Casey on April 23, 2007, 05:40:37 PM
Melissa, I don't plan to rule anything out. I did, but that doesn't feel right. I'm me, and I think I need to just put myself on autopilot for a while and just let things happen. I don't know what will happen. But you know, I'm willing to go along for the ride.

Good, labels aren't important and there's no need to leave the forums whether it ends up being a gender issue or not.

Mike/Casey,

Sorry to hear about your Grandfather...glad he is doing better.  Dealing with the worry and stress of that is hard enough, but adding a "first viewing" of Casey by the aunts and uncles on top of things would push anybody over the top.  It must have been incredibly difficult for you.

We all have questions about who we are, (or what we are), and unless we have incredible self-confidence it is natural to wonder "what the heck am I thinking?"   We wonder if this is some phase, a reaction to stress, a way to escape from our old life and its problems, or just what it is.

For whatever reason(s), you are having a tough time right now.  I plead with you to remain here at Susan's.  Don't cut off the support and emotional outlet this forum can provide.  We can't always help with everything (we are online, after all), but please know that we care about you and want to help...be it a shoulder to lean on or just someone to listen while you sort things out.  Your questions and insights have been very helpful and comforting to me, and I know that I would miss you greatly.

Your comment about just letting things happen sounds like a solid plan.  If, over time, you find that you feel completely male, fantastic.  If you find otherwise, that's fantastic too.  In either case, please stay with us...we'd love to hear about your journey.

Big Hugs......Laurie

I just want to thank everybody for their support. It's always meant a lot to me, but it means even more right now.

I don't plan to leave. Even if I felt I had to justify being here (which I know I don't) I'm still trying to deal with emotions that we were brought up to believe that men just don't have. Besides, if it turns out I'm not an androgyne then we may have an easier time of figuring out the difference between an androgynous man and a male-bodied androgyne.

hi casey sorry to hear about your grandfather hope he is better and you are too.

when i read your first post on this thread i was amazed at just how much your story sounded like mine of having feelings and emotons from an early age that other boys didnt have and not knowing how to deal with them and blocking them out and like kendra piling them up and not dealing with them im only jut starting to get to grips with them all now and theres a big back log like when your on holiday and the junk mail keeps coming. sometimes i also feel like the crossdressing was a side effect of me trying to cope and have recently put my fem alter ego to bed or down graded her to a sort of persona that sometimes fun to be but is not me. im not sure that i can kill her off as she as been with me for years and helped me through a lot also she is fun i dont know what advice i could offer to you but as people have said just do what makes you happy be it male or female as it comes up and try not to second guess yourself or worry about others .

I just wanted to poke my head in and mention something. Feel free to ignore it if it doesn't apply.

Sometimes before a change - a big change, we pull ourselves apart, do some housecleaning, see if there's anything we've missed, do some hard core re-evaluating just to make sure... and then we ready ourselves for the storm to hit. Doesn't matter if we don't know exactly what kind of storm, part of us just needs to be ready for something.

I think it sounds like who you are may becoming who you were. Which leaves you with what? Nothing. Courage feels like a hollow word when you choose to stand in that space between nothing and the unknown. Freedom is another word for it. Rebirth is another word I've heard bantied about.

You have a therapist you trust. Sounds like your ...inner self (for lack of a better word) has a plan. Seems like you trust yourself.

So I'd keep doing whatever your doing, keep at it, see what shakes out. At the very least its exciting.

Chunk

I've been thinking about what you said, Chunk. I'm not sure if it's a storm really, but there's been a positive change lately. I've felt different for a long time. Not necessarily different good or different bad, just different. But I haven't felt different since I imploded. And by not feeling different I've been able to see things more clearly lately.

I've talked a number of times about my self-esteem issues. The new version of our company website went live a few weeks ago, a version I designed from the ground up. The sense of accomplishment and the praise I got felt good, but there was that little voice going "yeah but" and doing all that nitpicking. Very recently (not too long before I imploded) I was tapped by the company president to design the look and feel of our company's public facing documents. Who, me, with my obviously inadequate design skills?

Well, I came up with something that went over well. But more importantly, I screwed up a few times. Nobody yelled or called me stupid. I simply said oops and fixed my mistakes as I made them. And it was a case of fixing one mistake and making an unrelated one. I'm still keeping a tally of my mistakes but they don't seem as earth-shattering as I used to think they were.

And I came up with a very quick placeholder graphic so I could lay out a Word document. It was just a "sunburst" gradient that went from white to our logo color. They LOVED it. I'm thinking that maybe I expect too much from myself. I mean, I'm not just thinking it somewhere in a corner of my mind, I'm actually considering it as a possibility or even a probability.

All the "look and feel" designing came after I imploded. Besides boxing myself in as as androgyne, maybe I had to get rid of my self-imposed stigma about being TG. I knew I was going to mess this up bad and they were going to fire me. I don't know, I'm still sorting this all out. But I can't help noticing that imploding reduced this myopia I have when I look at myself just enough.

Casey,

Im new here and not good at thinking on my feet, but I felt compelled to say something. As was said in another post feel free to disregard if it doesnt apply.

I cycle through being female, male, both and neither sometimes. It really was confusing till I recognized there was a cycle to it. Not terribly regular, but there was one.
Secondly I can identify with your self doubt and introspection. Mine has caused a lot of problems not the least of which is the range and intensity of emotions.
I have discovered fairly recently that the core of my anxiety and introspection was dominantly caused by growing up in an environment where I was not "validated" by anyone as a general rule. Children were treated as objects. The short conclusion is that I never learned I was supposed to validate myself. Nobody bothered to tell me that.
We CAN decide who we are. CAN chose our own label or even none at all.
It might sound a bit trite, but I hope you dont take it that way.
The very act you exist has inherent meaning and purpose.

I hope i said something you can use.

xox
Sylvia

Although the internal world can be a bit of a hurricane sometimes, it seems to the world that we are what we do. I try and asess my actions to try and work out who I seem to be from the outside sometimes, it helps with stress.

So far then, you've shown by your actions that you are a caring grandchild and by your design that you are a diligent, creative worker with an (over?) preocupation with quality. All pretty positive things from the outside, and in their various permutations belonging to you.