Most fundamentalists Christians I've met don't actually say very much at all on intersex issues even when I bring it up. Often I will explain the phenomenon explaining how CAH, AIS, Klinefelters syndrome works and they don't understand anything I just told them.

Two possibilities exist for this gap.
1: They are too simple and mentally degenerate to comprehend what I'm saying to them.
2: They are intentionally ignoring me because to hear me violates the purity of there bigoted mantra of bible verses.

You get a similar reaction when you discuss evidence for evolution or biological origins for sexual instinctive behaviour in mammals.

as such when I very simplistically explain the terms point blank they respond emotively.
"THEN GOD WANTS THEM TO BE CELIBATE!" ignoring that they have sex drives.
Or "THEY MUST CHOOSE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER" Or have that choice made for them early on. ignoring there own putrid lies about "god doesn't make mistakes"

Quote from: pebbles on May 16, 2012, 06:45:58 PM
Or have that choice made for them early on. ignoring there own putrid lies about "god doesn't make mistakes"

I'm not going to debate beliefs about God, but I will say that I've heard the "intersex is a result of the curse", which is not incompatible with "God doesn't make mistakes."  I don't believe that it's a result of the curse, but some people do.  It's essentially sin in flesh form.  It's *slightly* nuanced and distinct from "being intersexed is a sin", but only slightly so.

I don't believe God controls our every movement, the way the wind blows throughout the SE United States in May or the way natural disasters occur.

When it comes to intersex I don't see it as a God based curse (it may be a curse in the sense of the word where the person wishes he or she was not intersex).

When people believe that God is behind every business transaction, every mundane decision, every way a birth occurs, every way a death occurs, then people can easily fall into a trap of blaming God on everything.

It all goes back to our fundamental inability to understand G-d completely. As Aquinas wrote of Anslem's proof for G-d, it is indeed true that G-d is the most intelligible entity, so intelligible that it is impossible to know G-d fully via human consciousness (my not using pronouns to avoid gendering G-d may come off as a bit clunky, but just so you know that is my express intent). G-d is everywhere, and yet we cannot no G-d completely by observing the world, but rather my engaging in what saints and mystics call the "long dark night of the soul" that is beyond both words and memory.

You know some fundies say: "A new born baby is in sin - the sin of the parents..." the sin of who so ever... and unless being christened right away it be going to hell if it dies.

To be "in sin" is a bit like being indicted, - and as the saying goes: "one can indict a ham-sandwich..."

Does one need say more? No, not really

Axélle

Quote from: Annah on May 19, 2012, 12:35:55 PM
I don't believe God controls our every movement, the way the wind blows throughout the SE United States in May or the way natural disasters occur.

When it comes to intersex I don't see it as a God based curse (it may be a curse in the sense of the word where the person wishes he or she was not intersex).

When people believe that God is behind every business transaction, every mundane decision, every way a birth occurs, every way a death occurs, then people can easily fall into a trap of blaming God on everything.

it sounds like you're saying "yes, god exists, but only when i want." this is what i do not get about "religion." people use this tool as a means of telling people if they do not follow these words, they are going to hell, yet they conveniently alterate the interpretations to whatever the hell they choose. just like the "fundys" it's another example of using religion as the poison it is, in trying to brainwash people into believing something that is neither here nor there, but just because the word god is put into it, it must be correct.

God is love
Love is God
so we make a resting place
in our hearts
for Love/God

Three pages of comments, and I have yet to see anyone factually support the original premise that an intersex condition is sinful.

I'd rather not see this thread degenerate into anti-religious bigotry and bickering.

The valid discussion of religious fundamentalism and how it effects the GLBT community should be held in the Religion forums.

Quote from: Jamie D on May 20, 2012, 05:31:23 PM
Three pages of comments, and I have yet to see anyone factually support the original premise that an intersex condition is sinful.

I'd rather not see this thread degenerate into anti-religious bigotry and bickering.

The valid discussion of religious fundamentalism and how it effects the GLBT community should be held in the Religion forums.

that's because being intersex is not a "sin." there is no facts or proof needed. the only bigotry is that of the "fundys." really, i don't even know why i'm posting here, but it makes me question why on a transgender support site, people would imply that those people who are hateful of intersex people are possibly right for any reason at all.

I think the case has been made here that the premise of the original post has gone unsupported. Indeed, no one has even cited a single time where that contention has been made.  Nor has anyone supported "fundamentalists" in that point of view, if such a point of view exists.

The Site Terms of Service and Rules:

16. Please limit religious discussions to the spirituality forum. If a thread in another forum turns into a religious discussion please move the thread to the spirituality forum. Our moderators will assist in this process if necessary.

Is this thread any longer about the subject of intersexuality?

Quote from: CosmicJoke on May 20, 2012, 02:39:38 PM
it sounds like you're saying "yes, god exists, but only when i want." this is what i do not get about "religion."

I say God exist but I do not believe God is not as involved in our personal lives.

That does not mean God exists only when I want.

Quote from: Jamie D on May 20, 2012, 06:15:01 PM
[clipped]
Is this thread any longer about the subject of intersexuality?

Jamie,
I think it is, because it is not just the word INTERSEX but the OP is also saying FUNDYS and SIN - right?

Now which 'fundies' are talking about sin? Please go tell?

Lawyers, doctors, ... - the butcher the baker and the candle-stick maker...?

That is why the subject inevitably looks at sin and the fundies that proclaim what sin is -
and sin, as I said, is nothing other then some sort of indictment.
Is -sin- a religious term? You bet.
Amen

Axélle

Quote from: Axélle on May 20, 2012, 11:50:08 PM
Jamie,
I think it is, because it is not just the word INTERSEX but the OP is also saying FUNDYS and SIN - right?

Now which 'fundies' are talking about sin? Please go tell?

Lawyers, doctors, ... - the butcher the baker and the candle-stick maker...?

That is why the subject inevitably looks at sin and the fundies that proclaim what sin is -
and sin, as I said, is nothing other then some sort of indictment.
Is -sin- a religious term? You bet.
Amen

Axélle

I would go with ... the candlestick maker 

I stated in an early post on this thread that the OP's premise was a "strawman."  That is to say, a fallacy based on a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.

Trust me here, I'm not defending religious fundamentalists.  But there is nothing to be gained from beating the strawman with a stick.

Trust me here, I'm not defending religious fundamentalists.  But there is nothing to be gained from beating the strawman with a stick.

Sure there is, look at the great fun the flying monkeys had...



Sorry, I'm terrible 

The Flying Monkeys scared the living daylights out of me.

I think I can shed a little light on this.
As a child, my mom was part in a church called, "Church of Christ" (not to be confused with CoCLDS).
The way they saw it, if your child was not born "normal", then it went that the parents where sinnfull.
So by that thinking, just the fact I have Albinism, my parents where " sinners".  As far as being Intersexed, I have no idea and stay away from churches.