Wealthy non-ops

[xsocialworker]

What is your opinions on people like the "spiritualist" Holly Boswell or the "activist" Nancy Nangeroni who could afford GRS and choose not too. Phyllis Frye, the Houston attorney, chose not to have GRS and I presume she could afford it several times over.

Thoughts?

[Steph]

Why would they want surgery? They are obviously not TS but simply CD's or maybe TV's.

-={LR}=-

[she_male]

I think that they have a right to do (or not do) what they want with their own bodies without being judged or told by others how to identify because of it.

You can have a transsexual body without having genital reconstruction surgery, Ladyrider.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize both of those women, but the state of their genitals is not one of them.

[DarkLady]

It is a personal choice even I strongly recomend it all who are really  transsexuals. In case one can afford SRS and does not have medical problems to prevent it and choose not to have it maybe she is more TG than TS.

[Caroline]

How wrong are these wealthy non-ops in the wrong body?  What's the difference between a wealthy non-op & a 24-hour cross dresser?  None.  And motives to transition?  Fetishistic reasons most likely.  Somebody that values his penis & doesn't want to get rid of it isn't transsexual by definition.

There's this little known concept called 'gender identity', sounds like you haven't heard of it.  Having your crotch reconfigured inside out doesn't magically grant you womanhood.  Ooh and you think you get to decide other people's pronouns and motivations for transition too.  Niiiiice.

[she_male]

It is a personal choice even I strongly recomend [sic] it [to] all who are really  transsexuals.

It's "a personal choice," but if other trans women don't make the choice you decide is the correct one, then their identities are invalid?

If I don't get an expensive (really I can't even imagine being able to afford it at this point), only semi-sensate, ugly neovagina, I'm not a "real" transsexual?

I'm sure that there are a number of things that I could lord over you to prove that I'm "trannier than thou," but my confidence in my own identity isn't based on making other people feel like >-bleeped-< about theirs.

[DarkLady]

I do not consider anyone's identity invalid. And there are reasons why TS may want to avoid SRS. But in general transsexuals that are able to go SRS usually do it. It is not baseless that in many places legal recognition is based on SRS. (Even there are other views on this question.)

[Shana A]

There are many places to live on the trans continuum. What's right for one person might not be right for another. It would be greatly appreciated if people didn't presume to mislabel other trans people instead of honoring their right to identify as they choose. This is a support site, and labeling non-ops as something other than that isn't supportive.

Z

[ArleneTgirl]

We (the trans community) need to be careful not to judge others, particularly those in our community.  Labels are interpreted by each individual differently, but we need to be true to ourselves.  Whatever we feel we need to do to confirm our Gender is truly personal.  It doesn't make us more or less of a trans person.

[tekla]

not to judge others, particularly those in our community

CUE: Buddy Holly singing That Will Be the Day.

You know I'd like to suggest that it is right, fitting, and proper to judge things, in so far as you understand that you are not the Lord High Executioner, and your judgments are just that, your judgments.

I'd also suggest that in so long as we as a community can't agree on this, asking the public at large to see the entire spectrum is pretty much a Spanish Pipe Dream.

[Julie Marie]

On another forum I once posted how to tell a TS from a TG - Give them a couple hundred thousand dollars and see how they spend it.  Every TS I know, once they got enough cash in hand, soon scheduled surgery.

The initial post was meant to be funny but there was a lot of truth in it, when you really think about it.

Julie

[tekla]

Assuming they did that, as opposed to like say, buying a house, or getting an education, once they are jobless, homeless, and indigent, are the TGs of the world then supposed to work a bit extra to support them, or have they chosen their fate?

[Miniar]

I would schedule top surgery...
After I'd take care of things like housing, food, transportation, etc...
That is, if there was any coin left.
But then, my life is not mine own.. got a wee one to look after.

[she_male]

So what you're saying is that "you have a wee one to look after," so you're going to buy them top surgery for you and then think about "housing, food, and transportation [afterward]... if there was any coin left?"
Really?

[Miniar]

So what you're saying is that "you have a wee one to look after," so you're going to buy them top surgery for you and then think about "housing, food, and transportation [afterward]... if there was any coin left?"
Really?

Actually that's the complete opposite of what I said.

[she_male]

Ah. For some reason, i read a "that" between "After" and "I."

Not enough sleep last night

[Steph]

The OP suggested that these folks didn't want or didn't intend to have grs.  There is a difference between not wanting and not able to have grs.  And for those who think that genitals don't not make you an man or a woman, I would challenge you to stand naked in a changing room of those who you identify with and ask them what they think.  Oh yes I forgot "It's not what others think, it's what I think", ya right.  Stop kidding yourselves, if you want to keep your male organs then you are obviously not TS, you are something else.

All this baloney about "I can't have GRS because - I'm poor, I have a medical condition, I have a family, I want and education, blah blah blah, is a bunch of nonsense.  Get real, if you are TS you will do it.

If you need to make excuses to validate who you are then who are not who you think you are.

-={LR}=-

[tekla]

So then Ladyrider, all the FtMs are not real according to your values?

[Steph]

So then Ladyrider, all the FtMs are not real according to your values?

Nope I didn't say that at all.  Top surgery for them is every bit as important as bottom surgery for us.  And I would add that if the surgical results for constructing the male penis was more affordable/available etc. most would do it.

-={LR}=-

[tekla]

But they ain't gonna pass your 'locker room' test.