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Why would someone go "full time" before going on HRT or being on HRT a while?

Started by JessicaH, September 09, 2011, 03:15:38 PM

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Jennifer.L

Quote from: thefire on February 06, 2012, 11:18:30 AM
Well for myself, I'm trying to go "full time" because it's the only thing within reach. I don't have insurance or the cash to pay someone $200 or more a week for 1-5 years in hopes of being given permission to seek a doctor who may or may not give me a prescription. I find that all too expensive, restrictive and out of reach. A name change is a lot more within my reach, even though I fear it being denied. But I really need some significant change to be happy and to feel like my life is moving forward and that I have control over how my life's going to go for once. And I believe a name change would be hugely beneficial for me because my birth name is ultra feminine and people expect to see a beauty queen with that name on my job applications, not some fat guy.


Who the ->-bleeped-<- has been giving you your numbers sweety?  You find a trans specialist, and see then like once a month.  I'm every 6 weeks @ $150 a session.  after 6 months start HRT and at two years you get the letter.

@ the thead topic,  you do RLE before HRT  because HRT is permanent.
Live your life.

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Korra

I think RLE before HRT is a dated and silly concept.  If it were a requirement to live as a woman before starting HRT I know I would of never bothered with therapy or hormones and just lived as a miserable guy.  This is especially a problem for those with bad living situations or among the bible belt, you can't just start living as a woman when you look manly with 5 o'clock shadow etc.  HRT is permanent, however early changes are reversible.
I may side with the angels, but don't think for one second that I'm one of them.
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Asfsd4214

Simply answer, because power crazed therapists and brainwashed trans people believe they/you should.

Quote from: El on January 25, 2012, 07:10:55 AM
I know some people arent going to like this but i agree with the policy of requiring RLE before HRT. It makes sure that the people asking for these expensive and potentially dangerous drugs are serious about transitioning. This policy also makes the transitioner deal with the realities of being trans rather than living in the magic world where hormones will instantly make you a pretty princess. On the whole its a great way of saving NHS money, making sure only people who are serious and sure about transition have access to these drugs and forcing people to accept the reality of their situation. I am currently doing my hormone free HRT and i am glad it was required of me, i dont think i would pass so well if i hadnt had to make so much effort up to this point.

You're right, I don't like it.

'Potentially dangerous'? They're arguably less dangerous than OTC paracetamol/acetaminophen, that stuff will kill your liver SO easily.

And expensive is no excuse for anything, for one, spiro and estrogen are both relatively cheap even unsubsidised, for two, give us at least the OPTION of paying for it.

What is wrong with people who insist on controlling others. LET PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY'RE HARMING NOONE ELSE.

If I want to medicate myself without a doctors supervision, THAT SHOULD BE MY CHOICE. And if it goes wrong, that will be my responsibility.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Beverley on February 15, 2012, 02:17:23 AM
Yes you can. Trust me on this. I know.

Beverley

I love it when people say "trust me, I know".

Here, watch this.

You can't expect to pass as a female if you look like a man, trust me, I know.

See? Now I have just as much backing up my assertion as you do for yours.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Beverley on February 15, 2012, 02:48:24 AM
All right - if you want to be silly about it I will rephrase it for you. Here you go...

I had to start living as a woman when you looked manly with 5 o'clock shadow etc.

Beverley

Sometimes I post in anger and don't put enough thought into it.

I apologize for having a mocking tone in that post.

You can start living as a woman whenever you want, but I feel if passing is important to you, most people will have a VERY hard time doing it without HRT, and AA's should be started ASAP.
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Steffi

QuoteQuote from: Asfsd4214 on Today at 03:55:31 am

    You can start living as a woman whenever you want, but I feel if passing is important to you, most people will have a VERY hard time doing it without HRT, and AA's should be started ASAP.

QuoteQuote from: Beverley
True enough, it was very hard and I did get read a lot, but I soon learned very quickly how to pass better. I also learned that I wanted the transition badly enough to put up with having to live that way until things got better.
Me too
To those who understand, I extend my hand
To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am
Not under your command, I know where I stand
I won't change to fix your plan, Take me as I am (Dreamtheatre - As I Am)
I started out with nothing..... and I still have most of it left.
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Stephe

Quote from: Asfsd4214 on February 15, 2012, 02:42:27 AM
I love it when people say "trust me, I know".

You know how "We know"? Because we actually DID IT and not just guess at the outcome.

I KNOW you can live passing as a female without HRT because I have done it. Did you ever even give it a real attempt? Or did you assume the outcome based on your own fears?
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Korra

I may side with the angels, but don't think for one second that I'm one of them.
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Steffi

Quote from: HavenIf it were a requirement to live as a woman before starting HRT I know I would of never bothered with therapy or hormones and just lived as a miserable guy.
Quote from: BeverleyI said that I did it and, for me, it simply proved to me how much I needed to transition.
And therein is the issue.  Haven is young and has no idea what it was like when we were her age and no concept at all of what it was like when the early pioneers like Christine Jorgensen blazed the trail where none had previously existed.

The quote from Haven basically says "If you're going to make it difficult for me then I won't bother"
It takes a lot more determination than that to achieve peace as a transwoman - it's NOT any easy path

(EDIT)   and there is also THIS https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,115623.0.html
To those who understand, I extend my hand
To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am
Not under your command, I know where I stand
I won't change to fix your plan, Take me as I am (Dreamtheatre - As I Am)
I started out with nothing..... and I still have most of it left.
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Steffi

Quote from: BeverleyBear in mid Steffi that I am a typical 'late transitioner'. I am 49. That is ME in the avatar.
.....and you're a mere slip of a kid........I'm 57 and that is me in my avatar     ;D
I transitioned at 53
To those who understand, I extend my hand
To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am
Not under your command, I know where I stand
I won't change to fix your plan, Take me as I am (Dreamtheatre - As I Am)
I started out with nothing..... and I still have most of it left.
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Steffi

Although my ginger haired father was bald by age 30 and my face etc is mostly his, I had a fine head of hair apart from that my hairline was a very pronounced M-shape.  In later years people often thought that my temples were receding but no, it has always been like that.
I've had hair this length since I was 13 - grew up in the 60's, then was a hippy-type and a rock guitarist.
With HRT, the M shape did lessen just a little ........ I have an acre of forehead so always wear the fringe and hate windy weather which blows it off my face.

Oh..... I have perms and sleep in curlers a couple of times a week to keep the body in it - straight flat hair does not suit me IMO
To those who understand, I extend my hand
To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am
Not under your command, I know where I stand
I won't change to fix your plan, Take me as I am (Dreamtheatre - As I Am)
I started out with nothing..... and I still have most of it left.
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Stephe

Quote from: Steffi on February 15, 2012, 04:50:56 PM
The quote from Haven basically says "If you're going to make it difficult for me then I won't bother"
It takes a lot more determination than that to achieve peace as a transwoman - it's NOT any easy path

I have to wonder if much of this preoccupation with passing/stealth etc is people who expect this to be simple. I also wonder how many of these "voices of authority" on these issues have any personal experience?
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Korra

I by no stretch said if it's not going to be easy I won't do it, nothing about this has been easy and it is only going to get harder.  I'm merely stating, the way things are these days and it being much easier to get on hormones with less restrictions theres no reason to force yourself to go fulltime before your ready and still be able to get on hormones.  For those of you who went full time right away, before they got laser or anything else thats good for you.  I realize some people just want to go full time as soon as they can because they can't handle it it anymore but thats not to say real life experience should be required before hormone treatment is allowed.   Also if your going to misinterpret my message that much, just don't bother quoting me.  Skip it and move on.
I may side with the angels, but don't think for one second that I'm one of them.
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JessicaH

Quote from: Stephe on February 15, 2012, 11:47:56 PM
I have to wonder if much of this preoccupation with passing/stealth etc is people who expect this to be simple. I also wonder how many of these "voices of authority" on these issues have any personal experience?
[/quote

I certainly don't expect it to be easy but I also don't want it to be any harder or painful than it has to be. I also think (,my opinion on my situation) that if i stay on HRT for a while and have feminized a lot, it will be easier on everyone once I make my intentions known. 
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Stephe

Quote from: Haven on February 16, 2012, 02:26:21 AM
I by no stretch said if it's not going to be easy I won't do it, nothing about this has been easy and it is only going to get harder.  I'm merely stating, the way things are these days and it being much easier to get on hormones with less restrictions theres no reason to force yourself to go fulltime before your ready and still be able to get on hormones.  For those of you who went full time right away, before they got laser or anything else thats good for you. 

If I had taken this path, I'd likely never transition given all the problems I have had with HRT... Appearance IMHO is the EASIEST part of becoming a woman and being accepted as one.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Stephe on February 16, 2012, 09:12:39 PM
If I had taken this path, I'd likely never transition given all the problems I have had with HRT... Appearance IMHO is the EASIEST part of becoming a woman and being accepted as one.

The classic question... is tolerance acceptance? And is acceptance a knowing acceptance.

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Steffi

QuoteQuote from: Asfsd4214 on Today at 06:12:02 am

    The classic question... is tolerance acceptance? And is acceptance a knowing acceptance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does it matter? Either you are accepted or you are not. The motives of the person doing the 'accepting' are a matter for them alone, not for me. I have a life to get on with.
Beverley
I should have transitioned at 24 ....... but I had met a couple of transsexuals by then and didn't want to be one.   I wanted to be a woman,a REAL woman and nothing less was acceptable, especially as I was 6 foot and would never pass.

It took another 30 years for me to get to the point where I was driven to transition anyway.
I live life on the assumption that everyone reads me.  I present as female to the best of my ability and it's not an act, it's just who I am.
Apart from an occasional transphobic lout shouting insults, people treat me 100% as female and women seem to accept me.
Occasionally, guys have hit on me and definitely not realised, despite my height etc etc.

Have people Read me?   Are they Accepting me or are they Tolerating me?
I no longer care or even wonder about it.   I am simply ME and you can like or dislike me as you choose. 

It's all in ones own mind.   If I had this attitude to begin with, I wouldn't have wasted 30 years.
To those who understand, I extend my hand
To the doubtful I demand, take me as I am
Not under your command, I know where I stand
I won't change to fix your plan, Take me as I am (Dreamtheatre - As I Am)
I started out with nothing..... and I still have most of it left.
  •  

Asfsd4214

Quote from: Steffi on February 17, 2012, 09:32:58 AM
  I should have transitioned at 24 ....... but I had met a couple of transsexuals by then and didn't want to be one.   I wanted to be a woman,a REAL woman and nothing less was acceptable, especially as I was 6 foot and would never pass.

It took another 30 years for me to get to the point where I was driven to transition anyway.
I live life on the assumption that everyone reads me.  I present as female to the best of my ability and it's not an act, it's just who I am.
Apart from an occasional transphobic lout shouting insults, people treat me 100% as female and women seem to accept me.
Occasionally, guys have hit on me and definitely not realised, despite my height etc etc.

Have people Read me?   Are they Accepting me or are they Tolerating me?
I no longer care or even wonder about it.   I am simply ME and you can like or dislike me as you choose. 

It's all in ones own mind.   If I had this attitude to begin with, I wouldn't have wasted 30 years.

Plenty of women are 6 ft, I have cousins who are about 6 ft.

When you get right down to it, everything is in our own minds. We are each a whole world and reality unto ourselves. None of us get to see reality, just our personal reality.

At the same time, we can't force ourselves to feel what we don't. To some of us, the knowledge that we pass is how we survive. And by pass, I mean that people do not know we are transgender. Not after 3 hours of make up and wigs and stuff, but immediately. The same way 99.9% of cisgendered women get read as what they are.

If you have your own philosophies, coping mechanisms, or definitions of how you want your life to be, in my opinion there's nothing wrong with that. Please don't get mad at me for using the term 'coping mechanisms', it was just an example.

I hate terminology arguments. Nobody wins an argument over what a particular term means or doesn't mean. You just have someone who gives up arguing before the other does. No conclusions can be reached because it's all subjective.

I personally am uninterested in arguing about what words like 'passing', 'reading', etc, should or shouldn't mean.

What I do think needs to be discussed, because it can fill people with false hope. Is how our society by and large thinks and perceives each other. By passing I mean being seen as your gender of identification with virtually nobody ever knowing any different without being told.

In that regard, I think this whole concept of passing being just a matter, of even at all a matter, of your personal attitude, completely false.

A LOT of women are self conscious. I am self conscious. I don't know of anyone, or any situation, where being self conscious, how you walk, mannerisms, etc, has made any difference to how people see their gender.

I think a large population of the transgender community that likes to think that passing, as I defined it previously, is highly dependent on those factors like attitude, because that is something they have a far higher degree of control over than physical appearance.

If this helps them feel comfortable in themselves, that's great. We all have to find our own way of surviving in our lives or we will cease to live. But when they seek to spread that viewpoint to other transgender people. Filling them with what I see as false hope and inaccurate information. I will provide my counter viewpoint as well.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Beverley on February 17, 2012, 05:51:57 AM
Why does it matter? Either you are accepted or you are not. The motives of the person doing the 'accepting' are a matter for them alone, not for me. I have a life to get on with.

Beverley

And that works for you, nothing wrong with that.

I don't want to be humored by people. I don't want people to pretend they like me when they really don't. I believe in the truth, or as close as we can get to it in our subjective perception. I want to know the truth, even if it kills me.
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Asfsd4214

Quote from: Beverley on February 17, 2012, 10:54:00 AM
Thank you.



I find this philosophy terribly bleak and if I subscribed to it then I would probably hurl myself under the next truck that passes me. It saddens me that for you that it has to be so all or nothing. I feel that you might never know peace or happiness because of it.

Beverley

I might well never know peace. But I can't force myself to be ok with the idea people can read me as transgender.
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