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How did mtf do in the Medieval Age and Roman epoch?

Started by Sad Girl, January 04, 2012, 04:56:04 PM

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tekla

Wasn't Jesus a slave?

No, but plenty of people are slaves to Jesus, so close enough.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: Rain Dog on January 04, 2012, 05:55:10 PM
I believe eunuchs were only castrated. An orchiectomy, in modern terms.

I have read of them cutting the penis off too.


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Mahsa Tezani

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Keaira

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Jayr






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fleshpull

Quote from: JoeyD on January 04, 2012, 05:45:01 PM
In the future I want to be able to take my own cells and use them to create a new me.
And have my brain put in the new body.

So I can live forever and in a brand new youthful body :D

I hope we live to see this someday, and to be able to afford it.
NOT out
NOT on hormones
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AbraCadabra

Hm, in fact quite some were priestesses of the e.g. Cybele Oracle much favoured over natal female priestesses.
They still unearthing some "->-bleeped-<-s" (trans-priestesses) in some ancient graves in the UK for instance.

If you interested open up this link and you will find some interesting answers (I think).

http://www.goddess.org/vortices/notes/cybele.html

Axélle
Some say: "Free sex ruins everything..."
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Bishounen

Quote from: Venus-Castina on January 04, 2012, 07:55:48 PM
In Ancient Greece and Rome transsexuals were considered strange, but weren't prosecuted. They had a place in society as priestess or as oracle. The Romans even had a goddess for "Female souls locked in male bodies": Venus Castina. There are several myths concerning the origin of transsexuality in the ancient world.  The greeks told a tale of a barbarian horde plundering a temple of Artemis (Later the Roman Venus, Goddess of love and femininity). Artemis was enraged by this and punished these barbarians by changing their souls into female ones so they and their offspring would struggle with their male bodies for life.

So in the ancient world you didn't have a high social status, but there was a place for you in society and you weren't prosecuted.

There were transgenders with high status aswell. For instance, the Roman Emperor Elagabalus, that loved flirting with bypassing men from his palace while wearing heavy makeup, wigs and earrings, and offered a great sum of money to the physician that could provide him with female genitalia.
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tekla

First, Rome at its' zenith was the most openly mulit-religious place in the world until the modern age.  People shopped for religions more than they followed them.  You went to the temple cult, or the mystery cult that would help you the most with the specific problem you were having.

Yeah, and wasn't Elagabalus killed for those very things?  When he was 18?  After 5 marriages, including one to a vestal virgin?  After prostituting himself in the Imperial Palace as well as out in public?  The great modern historian of Rome, Edward Gibbon, said that he "abandoned himself to the grossest pleasures and ungoverned fury." While Neibuhr settled for calling him out on his "unspeakably disgusting life." And, exactly because of that decadence he was killed along with his mother, both by having their heads cut off and then  the bodies were stripped naked, dragged all over the city, with the mother's body cast aside somewhere or other, while Elagabalus headless corpse was tossed into the Tiber.

You can do better than pointing to the Roman Emperors, my favorite, Emperor Caligula tried to make his horse a consul (he didn't, settling on making the horse a priest instead - take that for what you will, but saying that a ->-bleeped-<- was a priest or priestess puts them on the same level as Caligula's horse) in one of the interludes when he wasn't boinking his sisters, Agrippina, Drusilla and Livilla.  (Several Roman Emperors showed a special fondness for sexing up their sisters, and on occasion, mom too - family values I guess.)  Well, until his own guards killed him that is.

But of course most of that for either of them could have been made-up after the fact to justify killing them.  It's hard to say.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Pica Pica

Ahhh, you beat me to Elagabalus.

I don't know much about Medieval, but the eighteenth century (in London at least) had a thriving, though secretive queer culture, which included people living as a woman and gay marriages where one of the partners would dress as a female, and even a ceremony where that person gave birth to a doll.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Bishounen

Quote from: Pica Pica on January 05, 2012, 12:20:31 PM
Ahhh, you beat me to Elagabalus.
If it is of any comfort, I sort of have that habit. :laugh:

QuoteI don't know much about Medieval, but the eighteenth century (in London at least) had a thriving, though secretive queer culture, which included people living as a woman and gay marriages where one of the partners would dress as a female, and even a ceremony where that person gave birth to a doll.
Yeah, those times were quite "Queer" indeed, not to mention those makeups and wigs. :P
Seriously though, I think I know which ceremonies you are referring too, and they are really extremely interesting and not the least, they prove that things like gay marriage and transgendered "lifestyles" is far from anything new, as anti-activists tries to make it.

Tekla:
QuoteYou can do better than pointing to the Roman Emperors
Do better? Is it a competition, in your mind?
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tekla

No, but if I was to try to pick some people out to demonstrate the normally of something I sure wouldn't pick the Roman Emperors as the example, being one of the greatest freak shows ever on this planet.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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catherine - remy

I dont know that much about the middle ages, but I do know that in the period just before then in England (and after the fall of the Roman Empire) Trans people have been found in grave sites in Kent.

There are writings of 3 - 400 years before this, by the Roman writer Tacitus (98 AD) "Amongst the Naharvalians is shown a grove, sacred to devotion extremely ancient. Over it a Priest presides apparelled like a woman". In the viking areas north of this around 1000 AD there were also Preist / ess who seemed to be doing the same thing, so it appears that transgender prieistess played some sort of role in the religion of the north europeans before christanity came along, the viking sorces indicating some sort of religious play.

What happened between then and the 18th C I dont know, if I was to guess it would have been something to do with plays and the theatre. The religious pagan plays which the preistress played a role in somehow surviving till early modern times. The only very slight eveidence I have for this is  the traditional east Kent folk tradition of Hoodening, which is a strange sort of play. In this one of the characters is called "Mollie" a bit like a pantomine dame. This tradition seems very ancient, having roots maybe in the 5th century (from which the trans graves come from, and the same area), and maybe the character of Mollie is some sort of remembrance of trans peoples involvent in the now lost religion.

Somewhere in the world
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tekla

What happened between then and the 18th C I dont know

Christianity become the dominant religion and suppressed, repressed, and killed anyone who did not agree with them or go along with 'the new program.'
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Pica Pica

Funny you should mention the name Mollie, the places where the transgender/gay/queer get togethers happened were called Molly-Houses and the people Mollys.

This is an interesting book on it if anyone fancies



'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Anatta

Quote from: Pica Pica on January 05, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
Funny you should mention the name Mollie, the places where the transgender/gay/queer get togethers happened were called Molly-Houses and the people Mollys.

This is an interesting book on it if anyone fancies



Kia Ora Pica,

::) Ah...Those were the days... ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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wheat thins are delicious

 
Quote from: pretty on January 05, 2012, 07:50:06 PM
Was Jesus real?  :o

I don't know.  I personally believe he did exist, but as a teacher only, not the son of God or any of that.


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MacKenzie

  THIS IS SPARTA!!!.....wait where am I again?  :icon_crazy:
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xXRebeccaXx

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 04, 2012, 11:35:35 PM
Wasn't Jesus a slave?


Jesus was a jew who was crucified for treason(saying he was the king of the jews)
Even in death, may I be triumphant.
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