how early in life did you know that something was wrong or different

[generous4]

Is it just coincidence of perceived frequency on my part, or is there a disproportionate number of trans women who have some link with the military?

Is it just coincidence of perceived frequency on my part?  Or is there a disproportionate number of trans women in this thread who report the first transgender thoughts in terms of girl's or women's clothing?

Being as how, for me, it was body-centric, not clothes.

Just curious.

[MadeleineG]

Is it just coincidence of perceived frequency on my part?  Or is there a disproportionate number of trans women in this thread who report the first transgender thoughts in terms of girl's or women's clothing?

Young children have effectively interchangeable bodies. Gender really is a superficial construct for them. I was technically aware of the plumbing differences, but didn't give them any thought. When I start to, at around ten/eleven, body dysphoria hit me like a ton of bricks.

[amber1964]

Your observation about the military is correct IMHO. But its not so much the military. Its an all out attempt to fit into a masculine role and reject what we often feel are disgraceful, disgusting and immoral ideas about female things. Look at my avatar, thats me now. Rewind a little more than 5 years, I was a body builder, 120-130 pounds heavier and all muscle. Imagine a shorter version of the "Rock". That was me.

I can only speak for myself. But I grew up in a time when gays were ->-bleeped-<-gots and homos and it was considered fun on weekends to drive down to gay town and go gay bashing. Being trans? OMFG, I never thought I was and no exaggeration if anyone had thought so in the small ontario town I grew up in I would likely be dead. Being a feminine young boy was bad enough, I barely got through that set of beatings but they just thought I was a homo. I was a tiny boy, very late puberty and beaten so severely that I was hospitalized three times. Other things happened too, worse, I dont talk about them.

At some point I started puberty and sprouted from 5 feet to 5 feet 7. I started working out. I decided no one was ever going to hurt me or have reason to accuse me of being a homo ever again. It worked to. I filled out a lot, I forced myself to be a man and at some point I found out how to be a kind of man that people would accept. It all worked really well until it didnt.

Thats why.

[stephaniec]

Im not very typical in this regard. I never thought I was female, not ever, not even once until about 5 years ago. High school was definetly a hard time for me, I was often beaten and called gay, ->-bleeped-<-got etc. Always a loner and never had any male friends.

I did get caught doing something though when I was about 12. This resulted in 3 years off and on of incarceration at CAMH being systematically tortured with reparative therapy. In my case mostly electric shocks, my finger is still numb to this day from it. I guess that cured me until I got much older. I still remember Dr. Freund, I hope he burns in hell forever.

I thank god that didn't happen to me. I don't know what would of happen to me later in life. I had severe cross dressing as a child.

[amber1964]

Well, like most things you get through them or you dont. In my case I went on to have a succesful business career, two marriages, one daughter, 5 suicide attempts, 2 admissions to a mental ward, substantial alcohol and drug abuse (recovering now, sober and clean for some time) , self harming (burning mostly but cutting as well) and a whole host of phsychological problems at least so they tell me.

I dont say this for sympathy, Im lucky and feel blessed. But its what happens when we are not treated. Others are gone and so none of it matters. My story is not unique other than through some miracle I lived long enough to transition. My transition I take pride in, the rest is just stuff that happened. My therapist said I was a survivor like somehow it is a medal I have or something to take pride in. I dont see it that way, I just got lucky.

This is why I got a little irritable when people want to have these intellectual discussions about what is trans or what makes a real woman or assorted other worthless psychological studies. Meanwhile we die. Think TDOR consists of all those who died? Think again, lots of people were like me, they just died and no one ever knew they were trans anything In fact, I think a lot of unexplained suicides and drug problems come form untreated transsexuality. Its why I always reach out to someone who needs to talk. I dont want to see another one of us ever go through the things I had to. If I can help in some small way, just be listening, I will. I care about everyone, but I am trans and so each and every one holds a special place in my heart.

Sorry to ramble. I only told the parts I share. There are other things, worse but they are not to be spoken of and I never will.

[anjaq]

Is it just coincidence of perceived frequency on my part?  Or is there a disproportionate number of trans women in this thread who report the first transgender thoughts in terms of girl's or women's clothing?

Being as how, for me, it was body-centric, not clothes.

For me it was several things - Not many clothes experiences in the early years - more the feeling of being excluded from the girls group for no reasonable cause (IMO back then) - playing with the girls in elementary school (in a time when there was still games with ropes and chalk being played ) - why should I not be with them? Only once I remember I was wearing my sisters clothes actually and we both then ran to my mom and said something like "look, I am also a girl" or therelike - fuzzy though... Later for me, I mostly wanted actually to have womens hips and thighs - I picked girls in the few computer games that existed and did online aerobic exercises with womens figures on the screen that had female curves that I wanted and hoped to get with the exercises. Later I actually did put on a bra and filled it with stuff and went to bed, feeling hte pressure of that on my chest just as it should be. So for me, it was fairly body centric as well. Later I actually did also some experiments with clothes, but that was more in the midst of puberty. I guess typically it is that which is the most obvious and most "new" difference between the perceived and the true gender which is at any age the thing that causes most dysphoria. In elementary school it was the seperation of social groups that emerged (while in kindergarten everyone played with everyone else if wanted) - in puberty it was a lot of body issues, later in puberty it was all of that but on top also maybe some more clothing issues as girls started to dress up more. At the end of puberty and school, it was diverging life paths and actually the step from girl to woman or boy to man - that was too much dysphoria then for me at that point

What I do not get really about this military or other hypermasculine lifepaths is how one can keep to that for so long. Does it not cause an ever and ever increasing dysphoria which is unbearable? I mean I can imagine to somehow try this to get away from something perceived as shameful - but doesn't one realize after days, weeks, months or at leat a year or so that it does not work and that dysphoria is actually really bad then because the divergence between the own personality and the social and physical gender and sex that is then even more male-ish than before is even greater and causing more pain?

[KittyKat]

What I do not get really about this military or other hypermasculine lifepaths is how one can keep to that for so long. Does it not cause an ever and ever increasing dysphoria which is unbearable? I mean I can imagine to somehow try this to get away from something perceived as shameful - but doesn't one realize after days, weeks, months or at leat a year or so that it does not work and that dysphoria is actually really bad then because the divergence between the own personality and the social and physical gender and sex that is then even more male-ish than before is even greater and causing more pain?

Lots of self denial and stubbornness and it does lead to greater dysphoria. It gets really hard to keep up with the male talk and joking too cause I never could understand being so crude, spent 2 years where 95% of the people I worked with were men and mostly infantry.

[stephaniec]

For me it was several things - Not many clothes experiences in the early years - more the feeling of being excluded from the girls group for no reasonable cause (IMO back then) - playing with the girls in elementary school (in a time when there was still games with ropes and chalk being played ) - why should I not be with them? Only once I remember I was wearing my sisters clothes actually and we both then ran to my mom and said something like "look, I am also a girl" or therelike - fuzzy though... Later for me, I mostly wanted actually to have womens hips and thighs - I picked girls in the few computer games that existed and did online aerobic exercises with womens figures on the screen that had female curves that I wanted and hoped to get with the exercises. Later I actually did put on a bra and filled it with stuff and went to bed, feeling hte pressure of that on my chest just as it should be. So for me, it was fairly body centric as well. Later I actually did also some experiments with clothes, but that was more in the midst of puberty. I guess typically it is that which is the most obvious and most "new" difference between the perceived and the true gender which is at any age the thing that causes most dysphoria. In elementary school it was the seperation of social groups that emerged (while in kindergarten everyone played with everyone else if wanted) - in puberty it was a lot of body issues, later in puberty it was all of that but on top also maybe some more clothing issues as girls started to dress up more. At the end of puberty and school, it was diverging life paths and actually the step from girl to woman or boy to man - that was too much dysphoria then for me at that point

What I do not get really about this military or other hypermasculine lifepaths is how one can keep to that for so long. Does it not cause an ever and ever increasing dysphoria which is unbearable? I mean I can imagine to somehow try this to get away from something perceived as shameful - but doesn't one realize after days, weeks, months or at leat a year or so that it does not work and that dysphoria is actually really bad then because the divergence between the own personality and the social and physical gender and sex that is then even more male-ish than before is even greater and causing more pain?

yes, while I was in it is ever increasing dysphoria.

[izzy]

When I was 8 years old, I liked to play with the girls and one day the mother kicked me out of the house because I was a boy. This made me sad and upset. I did not mind playing with girls toys or being with them. I loved it.

[Miss_Bungle1991]

When I was 8 years old, I liked to play with the girls and one day the mother kicked me out of the house because I was a boy. This made me sad and upset. I did not mind playing with girls toys or being with them. I loved it.

That reminds me of when I a kid and we would play "house". I always wanted to be the sister or something similar since I could never be the mom.

[Carrie Liz]

Young children have effectively interchangeable bodies. Gender really is a superficial construct for them. I was technically aware of the plumbing differences, but didn't give them any thought. When I start to, at around ten/eleven, body dysphoria hit me like a ton of bricks.

Perhaps also why many tomboyish transsexuals like myself weren't aware of any dysphoria whatsoever as kids, but then suddenly puberty hit and all of a sudden it was like "OMG, what the hell is happening to me?"

[stephaniec]

Is it just coincidence of perceived frequency on my part?  Or is there a disproportionate number of trans women in this thread who report the first transgender thoughts in terms of girl's or women's clothing?

Being as how, for me, it was body-centric, not clothes.

Just curious.

I don't know is having a boy friend at the same time your cross dressing when your 5 and 6 count as body centric . I think it's a little confusing at this age. I use to think of the boy living 4 houses down from me as my boy friend . We use to hold hands walking down the street. I'm just glad I wasn't living in Canada near that institute , with Dr. shock therapy.

[MadeleineG]

That reminds me of when I a kid and we would play "house". I always wanted to be the sister or something similar since I could never be the mom.

I virtually lived at the house ctr in Kindergarten

[Missadventure]

when i was 4 or 5 i had gotten the idea that boys turned into girls when they got older and girls turned into boys. no idea where that idea came from, but i asked my mom how old i would be when i became a girl. she looked at me strange and said i'd never be a girl. i was crushed.

[stephaniec]

when i was 4 or 5 i had gotten the idea that boys turned into girls when they got older and girls turned into boys. no idea where that idea came from, but i asked my mom how old i would be when i became a girl. she looked at me strange and said i'd never be a girl. i was crushed.

maybe your genes were softly speaking to you.

[stephaniec]

I had the same experience It just took me longer to come to terms with it.

It took me longer to realize I was transgender. I did have an experience when I was 20 that kind of nail me for good about being female, I was in between going to school for about a year and a half. I was working at a hot dog stand by a university. I met a group of girls going to the college and we became close friends. I've considered them my best friends ever because they excepted me as one of them. That experience nailed the door shut on who I was inside and I'll be forever grateful to them for showing me my true self.

[stephanie203]

A lot of things happened around the time I was 10 or 11. I was always kind of soft and very sensitive but had no problems being a boy and enjoyed plenty of boy stuff but I had a curiosity about girl things I some how knew I wasn't supposed to talk about or let anyone know how I felt. This was away back in the 70's when it wasn't exactly mainstream and "accepted" so I knew I'd just suffer in silence unless some how my mom miraculously figured it out and offered help or I did happen to actually wake up one morning a girl. There were plenty of "triggers" I guess you could call them. The first I suppose was seeing Christine Jorgenson on some TV show and completely mesmorized by her story. After that Robert Reed was on Medical Center and underwent sex reassignment surgery and I so envious and wonderred how I could ever experience that myself but knew I couldn't say anything. So I'd lay in bed at night fantasizing I was laying in my hospital bed trying to fall asleep because I was having my surgery in the morning and later trying to imagine what life would be like post-op and being a complete female and my family relating to me as a girl. Again, knowing I didn't dare speak a word of this to anyone. Back then it was popular for little boys to dress a women for Halloween so I knew that was my way to get to see what it was like to actually be a girl for a few hours. What a complete diappointment it was for me when it turned out to only be one of mom's old dresses, a pair of her very low heeled pumps, an old wig and some makeup. No bra, no panties, no pantyhose, no nail polish, you know, all the nice things that make being a girl so much fun. Then I figured if I could hold onto the costume I could add those on my own and dress up when alone. Well mom wanted her stuff back and didn't take my subtle hints that I wanted to keep the costume. Then one of the Easters around that time really has stood out all these years. My mom wore this really pretty pink dress, pantyhose and black patent leather spike heeled strappy sandals and I so badly wanted to be wearing what she was instead of the crappy suit or slacks and blazer or whatever drab male garbage I was wearing. Wherever we were going I looked in the front seat and saw mom with her dress riding up her nylon encased thighs and I was so jealous. My slightly younger sister always dressed rather frumpy so it was a while before I became jealous of her. My mom being a stay at home mom rarely got all dressd up and I couldn't understand why because it looked like it felt so good and like a lot of fun. Yeah, back then the clothes were the big draw but later as I tried to find relief by crossdressing it eventually hit me the reason I was so frustrated and not finding that relief was because I was still a guy with a guy's body and that was the problem. I son't want to get ahead of myself, I remember those evenings when we'd go out to dinner or shopping (because the stores weren't open on all evenings and Sundays back then) so we'd go out as a family and make an evening of it. On the way home there would be the usual stop at the drug store for odds and ends and I remember being so envious when mom would tell me dad we needed to stop because my sister needed to get "pantynylons". I tried the going through mom's drawers and closet but she was so neat and clean everything had to be folded just so, so I lived in fear of getting caught and as I got older I also outgrew any of her clothes and shoes so I was reduced to looking and touching but I could squeeze into some really stretched out pantyhose, I stole  couple pairs of panties and I scored a really pretty lacy half slip she was actually throwing away. THROWING AWAY!!!!! I felt like grabbing her by the shoulders and shaking her "Don't you know I'd practically kill for one of these and you're throwing it out??" I made another score a while later when she cleaned out her panty drawer and must have replaced every pair. I did have a problem where to hide this stuff because she liked to snoop and go through our rooms. Another early source of incredible envy and frustration was middle school. A lot of the pretty girls who were just being allowed to wear high heels and pantyhose liked to on ocassion dress up for school. Not long after that we were going to the wedding of a family friend and once again wearing a detested suit and ust not wanting to go but I did watch the girls with complete jealousy wanting to be at the wedding but as one of them. It was a very frustrating, scary and confusing time because I knew I wasn't attracted to guys but I was so envious of the girl getting married and later that night as I lay in bed trying to fall asleep I was trying to imagine what she was doing and just so envious of a woman on her wedding night. The whole day was just miserable and it didn't help that my sister had just started wearing heels and nylons and wearing the prettiest white silky spaghetti strap dress covered in pastel flowers and gorgeous asymetrical hanky hem, tan pantyhose (NOT suntan!!!! yuck) and lavender Candie's slides with the really spikey plastic heels, not the heavier wood ones. She had a few pairs on Candie's in different colors until they went out of style. I knew I couldn't let on my interest so I'd feign ignorance and ask questions like how was she able to walk in them, etc. She was also wearing a delicate little anklet which I've always loved. As you can see femininity has long held an interest and an attraction for me and I still haven't resolved it. Had I been a little more petite and possibly passable appearing maybe my choices would have been open to me but as much as I'd love to be female it's never going to happen for me but for the lucky few, congratulations. It's like watching a prison movie and cheering on the escaping inmates. 

[stephaniec]

congrats your self . The Jorgansten  story hit me hard too

[sprouts]

I don't remember a specific age, but I was very young.  I'm sure I was younger than 6.  I always wanted to hang out with girls, but as I had a sister close in age, I was often prevented from playing with 'her' friends.  I would often 'borrow' her clothes, I remember vividly this BodyGlove bathing suit, lol.  It was like having cookies without milk though.  Conservative parents don't generally want their perceived sons running around in two pieces acting like girls.  So, I usually ran around in two pieces under my clothes, and a thin shell of observed "dude-like" demeanor masking my obvious and inherent feminine mannerisms and desires.

I remember the heavy weight of dysphoria pressing on my back at puberty.  Up until that point, I just knew that my prayers would be answered.  I knew I would become a woman.  Though, I think my problem was that I prayed to too many gods.   

[Kyra553]

Hmmm     I know from a very early age I felt different from other kids like me. I was quite, I was never super hyper and I tended to mind my own.  However I always had a niche where I would play with girls instead of boys. At least until the teacher will tell me to go play with the boys on the jungle gym... The thought of being a girl never really hit me until the 6th grade. That was my major depression year where I didn't want to do anything and I hated everything in my life. I always wore a black hoodie and never did anything or wanted to do anything besides tv. I can remember the days when I would come home after school and keep asking myself why do I have to be a boy or why cant I be a girl for at least a day so I can know what its like!  I honestly felt like I was stuck with what I got and nothing could change that and I truly thought about killing myself for it. But every time I got to that point of wanting death; I would think of how hard that would be on my family and how they would never be happy. I never committed to death and I'm glad I had the strength or will to hold out.  After going through middle school (7th and 8th grade) life became good again and I was happy for the most part. My teachers said I no longer looked down at the floor when walking and I smiled more often.  The truth of the matter was I always had a secret and I felted both embarrassed to show it and I protected it very well. However I felt very happy containing it from everyone else. Since I was the older brother of a younger brother in my family, I had no sisters. This led me to discover that I had friends who had sisters.   Now you might be wondering what I'm trying to get at here.  Well I discovered that they have clothes! that they don't like to wear and I would barrow them when I slept over at their houses. I never kept the clothes and I would always return them. However I would wear select garments under my clothes to school everyday. I loved every minute of it actually!  After doing this for several years I came up with a system on what clothes go where and where I could hide them in the house.  I actually used a old toy box with a pad lock on it to store the clothes. Though unfortunately my father and brother discovered my clothes one day and I ceased my operations. They still remember that...   But moving on later in my life, to high school.  I stopped wearing female clothes entirely by the 9th grade and I felt content that maybe.. I was indeed just confused. So the bulk of my high school career was mainly lived as a happy/smart/quite guy, At least on the outside it appeared that way... By the 10th grade I started to grow facial hair! This was the weirdest thing to ever happen before. I honestly could not stop touching it on my face! It drove me insane I couldn't stand having it there. I tried everything from shaving several times a day to pull it out with tweezers. But it always came back! This was the time that it really hit home that I was to live a man if I liked it or not. It wasn't until two years later that I slowly accepted the fact I have to have facial hair, though I still couldn't get over the fact I had it on my face or how I had to keep feeling it constantly... There were a few odd times when an entire class would stare at me as I blanked off while feeling my face in thought... very embarrassing... 

Well I've already typed a book in my opinion and I have much more to type. But I dont wish to bore anyone with my life experiences. So I will leave what I have posted above unedited and un-proof read. Oh and by the way. I've been out of high school for four years now. So there is still much to tell.