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Advice from a wife on how to not blow up your marriage

Started by Cailan Jerika, February 17, 2017, 04:40:16 PM

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MeTony

Thank you Cailan.

This helped me a lot. I am FtM but this applies to us too. If not more. There is some serious stigma about gay men. Many in the older generation has gay phobia.

I will wait until fall to tell my husband. It gives me time to sort my thoughts out. he will turn 50 this summer, we also have our anniversary in may. 19 years together. In the fall, nothing happens, except kids starting school.
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Dena

Because of the usefulness of this topic and a request from a member, I have sticked this topic so it will remain easily seen by any members who view this area of the forum.

This decision was not reached lightly because personal feelings of being judged by others can enter into the picture resulting in arguments. I have already seen one account deletion that happened when I made some of the suggestions contained in this thread.

Please continue your exploration of this idea in courteous manor and don't make me regret my decision.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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SiobhánF

I want to say thank you for speaking out. My wife doesn't speak up about how it affects her and I noticed for myself the self-harm that she was doing. I hadn't even started anything, but she was feeling such pain that she cut herself. Being deployed, I can't physically check on her, but she seems to be doing fine, from the talks we've had since my coming here.

Her way of dealing with it, now, is to divorce me. If that helps her cope and lets us stay friends, I will not fight it. I still want her in my life and I want to stay a part of hers. We've been married for 14 years and we've been through a lot together. There's really nothing outside of not transitioning that would keep us together, and even then there's no guarantee that we'd stay together in the same capacity as before.

Though my wife doesn't really speak up about her feelings, she's not afraid of dishing out some passive aggressive comments meant to hurt me, rather than help, where I've been as helpful as can be and still feeling abused for being honest. It's like I can't do anything to make things better. So, I'm good with the future divorce and staying friends. I wouldn't want it any other way. I just want her to be happy because she deserves to be happy just as much as I do.
Be your own master, not the slave to illusion;
The lord of your own life, not the servant to falsities;
Only then will you realize your true potential and shake off the burdens of your fears and doubts.






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Rayna

There's great advice here, and I appreciate it. My own wife "got the hint" when I proposed cross dressing in public for Halloween. She first thought I'd do a caricature job, showing my unshaven face, bald head and chest hairs, etc. I said no, I wanted to do it seriously, and she was supportive.

Since then, she's continued to be supportive of my "exploring my female side" and I'm OK with that for now. We've shopped for clothes together, wandered the bra aisles together (tough to find a 38B), gone in the dressing room together with all female clothes. I asked tonight if I could practice eye makeup on her, which she might let me do ;)

She offered to take me out for a night on the town in full-on cross dressed mode for my birthday, which we'll do this Saturday. Although at our 60-some ages the appeal of a dance club is significantly less than for younger folks. Need to find a good place to go out...

All in all things are going harmoniously and I'm happy with that. As others have said, the relationship is most important, more than all else.

Love, Randy
If so, then why not?
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Ellen G

This is so familiar it's scary, my wife and I went to therapy together for the first time yesterday.  My therapist helped us to be open and honest about what our expectations are, but as importantly what is to come.  I have an appointment with a local surgeon/gyno/trans professional in May, my wife said she wants to be there and be involved with hrt and that which follows. 
Thank you for this post.

With Love,

Ellen
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RobynD

This truly is a great post and sticky. As a married girl, i had meant to speak on it before. We all come from cultural bias of some sort that generally effects our expectations of romantic, marital and family life. This also fits within some set of gender expectations as well. From mundane things like who does the yard work and who cooks the most, to more profound things like who is the primary leader or protector in the relationships are often, but not always effected by these biases and expectations. Then you sometimes have to throw faith and religion in the mix and you have even more.

But, it is important to realize and believe that not all marriages are even close to the same and many don't fit many of these biases well at all. The sexual preference question is one of these things that people often make assumptions about when sometimes it truly does not matter. Sometimes people become situationally attracted to someone of a gender and only that someone of that gender.

Other times timing and place in life effect how marital change plays out. What are the other options? etc. Many marriages are not monogamous for instance and yet nearly everyone assumes that monogamy is one of the main expectations of almost all marriages. There are so many variables.

These experiences are and ideas are awesome and will resonate with many but also please understand some relationships face entirely different choices and challenges. I guess that is why couples and other therapy is so expensive and so important because it places a custom plan on top of very varied relationships.


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Jamie87

Thank you for this post. Years ago, when I came out to my (current) fiancee, I made sure I was as open to her and honest to her as possible. Your post does hit some points that I otherwise didn't think about. It does give me a bit to chew on for a while. I will definitely sit down with her and go over this article. Once again, thank you for this post!
-Jamie


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VivianJane

While there are some good points in the OP I feel that this is more than a little bit preachy.
I can understand that many of the points and observations have resonance for a number of people.
There is however a fundamental problem with compiling a list of do's and don'ts which is that the one making the list includes things they think are important.
I really wish people would stop telling people what they should do when they have no idea what may already have been done.
Implied in this post is the idea that we all hide the transness and only come out late in the proceedings.
I would offer my own situation as a sort of rebuttal.
I didn't identify until my partner and I had been married almost 18 years.
We don't hide anything, we take whatever time we need to come to terms with our core self and then we decide what to do about it.
I came out to my partner very quickly after I was certain about what I needed to understand.
In fact I didn't actually come out, she asked me out in a sense because she knew I was questioning.
When she asked I told, everything that I felt at that moment.
Also understand that when we come out we then begin to explore what we want as a life with our accepted identity.
How can anybody think that there is some sort of 'playbook' that we can all follow and get what we need for our life.
The bottom line is we deserve to do whatever we think necessary and that will be once we think to do it.
If you have a marriage that is a real partnership with open communication and respect and dignity shown to each other then you have a chance. If either person is somehow selfish and doesn't understand that in marriage everything is negotiated and sometimes you don't get what you want then you are doomed.
I could respond 100 different ways to this post...this is todays way because I read it today.
This OP is based on hurt feelings instead of compassion and real understanding.
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Alanna1990

there's only one person that hates me in this world, and that person is my ex-wife, not only because of my transition, but because of everything she did to me before anything happened, when I told her about me she made my life miserable for as long as she could, telling me that nobody in my family would accept me, that I'd die alone because of that, that I shouldn't change, then she left me, took my child and everything else and basically left me to my own luck in the street, these are valuable tips I will not deny it, if, and only if the one you try to live with is worth it, and if she/he is willing to deal with it.

If your couple doesn't want to deal with it please don't lie to yourselves, leave them, try to end in good terms, this may be selfish, but the mental health of others is not as important as YOUR mental health, because of the negatives of other people a lot of us have been at least thinking about suicide ourselves...

Look, I really get your point, but I can't possibly relate to that, in fact, I'm damaged, the betrayal and constant attacks I suffered and I'm still suffering from a liar that used to say that she loved me when I know it was a lie, even if I didn't tell her anything about a transition she hated me... it changed me, despite everything I trusted her, told her about me before anybody else, but she didn't even try to end on good terms, emotionally she did everything she could to destroy me, that's my experience, scarred me for life, despite that I can't hate her, but I can't be on her side, we get the short end, always, couples can just dissapear and pretend we never existed, living all happy and stuff.
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SiobhánF

Quote from: Alanna1990 on March 27, 2017, 07:15:09 PM
there's only one person that hates me in this world, and that person is my ex-wife, not only because of my transition, but because of everything she did to me before anything happened, when I told her about me she made my life miserable for as long as she could, telling me that nobody in my family would accept me, that I'd die alone because of that, that I shouldn't change, then she left me, took my child and everything else and basically left me to my own luck in the street, these are valuable tips I will not deny it, if, and only if the one you try to live with is worth it, and if she/he is willing to deal with it.

If your couple doesn't want to deal with it please don't lie to yourselves, leave them, try to end in good terms, this may be selfish, but the mental health of others is not as important as YOUR mental health, because of the negatives of other people a lot of us have been at least thinking about suicide ourselves...

Look, I really get your point, but I can't possibly relate to that, in fact, I'm damaged, the betrayal and constant attacks I suffered and I'm still suffering from a liar that used to say that she loved me when I know it was a lie, even if I didn't tell her anything about a transition she hated me... it changed me, despite everything I trusted her, told her about me before anybody else, but she didn't even try to end on good terms, emotionally she did everything she could to destroy me, that's my experience, scarred me for life, despite that I can't hate her, but I can't be on her side, we get the short end, always, couples can just dissapear and pretend we never existed, living all happy and stuff.

I agree with most of what you said. I can definitely relate to that experience because it's still a reality for me, right now. For me, it's difficult living with someone who says they support you, but who also tries to cut you down every chance she gets. It's downright maddening.
Be your own master, not the slave to illusion;
The lord of your own life, not the servant to falsities;
Only then will you realize your true potential and shake off the burdens of your fears and doubts.






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Raell

I don't know anything from experience, and I'm partially transmale, but from casual observation on this forum and from reading countless blogs and MtF autobiographies, it seems the people who have the least painful transitions are the ones the most "female" in mental traits.

For instance, my cis female relatives and friends, and sometimes I as well, routinely test the loyalty of prospective male partners, only dating males totally obedient to her. If, after dating or even being married a while, the male person starts showing disloyalty, obsessing over another female and/or trying to support another woman, at the former partner's expense, these cis women don't hesitate to put the man's things on the lawn and change the locks.

Yet most of the MtF people are willing to risk suicide and sacrifice themselves to keep their marriages. Ciswomen marry to have someone to take care of them, to be totally loyal and obedient to them, to be the center of their world, to raise their social status in the eyes of the world and their family. I even did that, when living as a woman.

As cis women, they aren't likely to be happy about suddenly having a spouse spending the family money on jewelry, clothes, and operations for themselves, and obsessing constantly about themselves, often going out on the town dressed like a hooker, destroying her hetero privilege and making her seem a "lesbian,' leaving her and her children to fend for themselves financially.

I noticed that the MtF people who had the smoothest, happiest transitions didn't have those slavishly obedient-to-the-death male traits. When they realized they had to transition or commit suicide, they simply divorced their spouses while still presenting as males, then transitioned in peace, beyond the reach of their wives' scorn and attacks.

Others simply told their wives very calmly that they had to transition to avoid suicide and that if she didn't want to stick around, they understood, and no hard feelings.

The ones who had trouble were the ones who had enough male in them to want to sacrifice anything, including themselves, to keep their marriages, somehow believing that transitioning wasn't that big a deal. They would only transition in the steps allowed by their wives, obeying her every command. Very strange to me.

If any female tries to tell me how to live my life, as they have, I simply laugh and ignore them.
Yet, as a partial transmale, I have a strong need to obey women. Luckily, I'm also partly female, so eventually that part of me is activated.
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VivianJane

Quote from: Raell on March 30, 2017, 08:00:58 PM
I don't know anything from experience, and I'm partially transmale, but from casual observation on this forum and from reading countless blogs and MtF autobiographies, it seems the people who have the least painful transitions are the ones the most "female" in mental traits.

For instance, my cis female relatives and friends, and sometimes I as well, routinely test the loyalty of prospective male partners, only dating males totally obedient to her. If, after dating or even being married a while, the male person starts showing disloyalty, obsessing over another female and/or trying to support another woman, at the former partner's expense, these cis women don't hesitate to put the man's things on the lawn and change the locks.

Yet most of the MtF people are willing to risk suicide and sacrifice themselves to keep their marriages. Ciswomen marry to have someone to take care of them, to be totally loyal and obedient to them, to be the center of their world, to raise their social status in the eyes of the world and their family. I even did that, when living as a woman.

As cis women, they aren't likely to be happy about suddenly having a spouse spending the family money on jewelry, clothes, and operations for themselves, and obsessing constantly about themselves, often going out on the town dressed like a hooker, destroying her hetero privilege and making her seem a "lesbian,' leaving her and her children to fend for themselves financially.

I noticed that the MtF people who had the smoothest, happiest transitions didn't have those slavishly obedient-to-the-death male traits. When they realized they had to transition or commit suicide, they simply divorced their spouses while still presenting as males, then transitioned in peace, beyond the reach of their wives' scorn and attacks.

Others simply told their wives very calmly that they had to transition to avoid suicide and that if she didn't want to stick around, they understood, and no hard feelings.

The ones who had trouble were the ones who had enough male in them to want to sacrifice anything, including themselves, to keep their marriages, somehow believing that transitioning wasn't that big a deal. They would only transition in the steps allowed by their wives, obeying her every command. Very strange to me.

If any female tries to tell me how to live my life, as they have, I simply laugh and ignore them.
Yet, as a partial transmale, I have a strong need to obey women. Luckily, I'm also partly female, so eventually that part of me is activated.

**********************************************************************************************

Raell, I agree with you for the most part
I came out to my partner and started transition very immediately.
When I came out I told her I wanted to and that I also didn't know how far I wanted to go but that I would work that out as I went along.
In the beginning she had said that she was fine with everything except genital surgery.
I agreed to this idea but only to just be agreeable knowing that I would still wait and see how I really felt.
As transition progressed I started having genuine dysphoria about my genitals and so rather quickly I started the assessment process for surgery.
Once I had this done I read the assessment to my partner and she replied..."So you want a vagina?"
I said yes and now I have one.
This started 22 months ago.
I don't think I was ever slavish just cooperative because my marriage means a lot to me.
I love my partner and cant imagine why I would not.
She still would have liked me not to have surgery but I did and now at one month since that happened.
I never told my partner she could stick around or leave and I don't care.
I don't think we are that callous, those of us who want to stay with our female spouse.
I think you have a basic idea of what can happen but there are a lot more things going on than having a more male or female brain.
To the people with more of a male brain are the people I call crossdressers. They are the ones that desperately don't want to lose their wives. Normally they don't say anything to their wives, some do. Of the some who do, there are those who think they might like to give transition a try. But they don't really get too far usually and being devoted to their wife gives them an easy escape and excuse for not fully transitioning.
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clayfit

What a great thread.  Thank you everyone who has contributed, especially the transmen.  Your posts made me think about the topic from another side.  To try to get somewhere close to what a cisgender wife must feel like when her husband comes out to her as MTF, imagine that she has just come out to you as FTM.  How would you feel about her wearing your underwear, then sprouting hair, and smelling different, and asking for surgery?
Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man.  That's surely no more true than it would be for a man. 
Food for thought.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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RobynD

Your analogy is a valid one. ie, what about turning the tables? Yeah i would have been fine if my wife had come out as F2M. The changes would have taken some adapting, but i would support her 100%


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Thessa

Quote from: clayfit on May 23, 2017, 11:10:48 AM
How would you feel about her wearing your underwear, then sprouting hair, and smelling different, and asking for surgery?
Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man.  That's surely no more true than it would be for a man. 
Food for thought.

I was thinking about this hypothetical situation before we had the discussion about something she know from the beginning of our relationship. And she always made jokes about being bi.

Anyway I would have at least tried out of a sense of responsibility and respect.

There are nuances in every aspect and in my option it is no reason to be a f...g a.....e. Sorry for the language.

Especially if you have kids.

jm2c
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LizK

Quote from: clayfit on May 23, 2017, 11:10:48 AM

Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man.  That's surely no more true than it would be for a man. 
Food for thought.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I understand whatg you are saying but I am not a cis guy I am a woman (and always have been)so am not going to react in the same way as a cis guy. My life experiences are not of a cis guy and neither are they for any other trans woman...Trans women are women trans men are men
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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SiobhánF

Quote from: clayfit on May 23, 2017, 11:10:48 AM
What a great thread.  Thank you everyone who has contributed, especially the transmen.  Your posts made me think about the topic from another side.  To try to get somewhere close to what a cisgender wife must feel like when her husband comes out to her as MTF, imagine that she has just come out to you as FTM.  How would you feel about her wearing your underwear, then sprouting hair, and smelling different, and asking for surgery?
Probably a lot of us MTFs have this guy thing that women are all somehow closet lesbians who would just as happily be married to a woman as to a man.  That's surely no more true than it would be for a man. 
Food for thought.

I could understand that. Honestly, I've had dreams that my wife and I swapped bodies and experienced sex from each other's perspective. If she had, in real life, started transitioning into a male, I would totally be okay with it because I am bisexual. It would take a bit of getting used to, but I would eventually see it as something normal. Being that my wife is straight and cis, I understand that she's not as fluid as I am with my sexuality or as understanding of my transitioning.
Be your own master, not the slave to illusion;
The lord of your own life, not the servant to falsities;
Only then will you realize your true potential and shake off the burdens of your fears and doubts.






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Wednesday

Quote from: josie76
In the most personal ways I did not have manly examples so my true inner self showed. To her these reactions were baffling.

I find things like this really interesting. May I ask (if not it's not TMI, of course) which were those reactions from your true self that baffled her?
"Witches were a bit like cats" - Terry Pratchett
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Jenn88

*This is Jenn88's wife ... future responses in this thread might be my husband who is in the process of transitioning MtF.

Honesty is key no matter how the relationship is currently framed or was founded. My partner and I  have something of a unique relationship as we were friends in high school, housemates afterwards (in other relationships at the time), and then a couple. We also have been coworkers for 6 years. In an average month we might be apart from each other maybe 24 hrs,.. to put it simply I felt I knew him as well as I know myself (and honestly still feel so). Still his announcement came as a surprise to me. We as wives are not mind readers and I believe that every SO will have some sort initial gut reaction that is not a good representation of how everything will work out in the end. I personally had an initial 24 hrs or so of believing that our marriage was ending because I would no longer be able to fulfill his needs. And a lot of that reaction came from my own personal ignorance of what it means to be transgender. I had a lot of questions, some of which I researched independently but most of which he was thankfully able to answer for me. We had a LONG heart to heart which really helped me to understand how he feels, why he feels that way, and what his hopes for the future are and I found that it wasn't really all that different from how we already operate.

I think what I'm trying to say is that when you are ready to talk with your SO, be prepared for questions. Don't get stuck in the idea that us questioning is the same as us rejecting. It's not.. Don't be surprised if there is an initial bad reaction, just have faith that they will come around. I'm not saying every one will have the perfect balanced relationship afterwards, but being honest about your plans for the future will aid the way.
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