New Surgeon Sucks!- Do I have Options?

[Jessica Lynne]

. You don't need to have GCS to officially change your gender.     

Unfortunately, that's totally dependent on which State you are a resident in.

And to the OP....I hate to say it but it looks like some guardian angels are stepping in to protect you if you ask me.

[rmaddy]

I don't think she did.  Saying "hell, no" to an inflammatory question about crossdressers isn't anti-crossdresser...it's anti-rudeness.  It certainly sounded like a very awkward moment, and we've all answered questions inelegantly in the heat of the moment.

Jessilynn was the victim here.  I'm not comfortable with laying even an ounce of blame on her.  I'm not usually one for lines in the sand, but this is one I'd draw.


Just no. I draw lines too. There's nothing inflammatory about asking someone in this setting if they're a crossdresser.

I just went through this same  process. Here's the (adult) deal. They asked me if I was African American. I calmly said "No." They asked if I was Latino. I calmly said "No." They asked if I  was a Pacific Islander or Intuit. "No." "No."
Never did I have a visceral reaction to  being asked if I was another kind of person, even though I wasn't that kind of person.

So pretend you're the doctor trying to decide if the transgender person across from you has made a rational, well thought out decision, and  they react negatively to the mention of transgender people who aren't like them. I'd seriously think they hadn't resolved their internal issues if I were in the white coat.

Hugs, Devlyn

I don't think this is a fair reading of the OP.  Jessilynn apparently had already met with and was comfortable with a surgeon who, for family reasons, left practice.  She was assigned a new physician.  This physician outlined a bizarre four step plan for GCS which led to understandable questions about how this plan might make adversely affect her desire to have a pleasurable sex life.  It was at this point that the surgeon asked a question, which, framed grammatically in the negative all but screams bias on the part of the surgeon.  In context, the question sounds (to me) less like "Are you a Pacific Islander?" and more like "You're not an arsonist or something ARE YOU?!!"

Granted, I am taking Jessilyn at face value in her reportage, but that is a courtesy we generally extend to anyone unless there is a fantastic reason not to.  Later in the thread, she makes it perfectly clear that she has no problem with those who identify as crossdressers...it's just that this is not how she identifies.  You said yourself that you didn't like being labeled as transsexual because you don't think the label fits. 

I've seen plenty of transphobic nonsense, but I see no evidence that Jessilynn is shucking it out in this case. Calling her out (twice) for unresolved "internal issues" seems to me a punishment of the innocent, and not what I expect from this place.

[Devlyn]

I'll ignore the fact that now you've  started comparing crossdressers to arsonists. You do know that many cis people compare ALL transgender people with perverts, right? By the way, the answer to "Are you an arsonist?" is still a calm "No."


I'm not punishing anyone here. I'm offering my opinion on what it sounds like  happened, in order to find a solution. I  go to Fenway Health. Everyone there is gay, lesbian, or trans. The patients, the doctors, the financial officer, the janitor. There are  big women with beards, guys with tiny hands and curvy hips. Folks of everyTG stripe. Blurting out anything, anything at all disparaging there about any flavour of TG person would be a major faux pas. It's something a cisgender person would do...or someone who had internalized transphobia.

She's going to have to go back through this process, I'm suggesting a different approach. It sounds like you're urging her to do the exact same thing again.

Hugs, Devlyn

[ToriJo]

Wow, the whole thing from the OP sounds absolutely horrible and would have reduced me to a blob of crying goo.  i don't have any advice to offer, but I did want to let Jessilynn know that i agree with her that this is horrible, that wanting good sensation isn't horrible (that should be the *expectation* by surgeons), and I really hope you can find an alternative - just about any alternative would be an improvement.

I'd also suggest talking with your partner about how this might change things. I don't know why your partner wants you to have SRS before marriage, but if there is room for negotiation there, particularly since I think there is valid concern that the surgeon you talked to would mutilate you and leave you with parts that don't properly respond to stimulus, I hope your partner and you can come to a more workable solution that doesn't leave you physically messed up.

[Paige]

She responds with a "Not very likely, You are not getting this for any sort of fetish or because you just... are a crossdresser are you?"

I'll ignore the fact that now you've  started comparing crossdressers to arsonists. You do know that many cis people compare ALL transgender people with perverts, right? By the way, the answer to "Are you an arsonist?" is still a calm "No."

Devlyn, I think I have to disagree with you.  It seems to me that the surgeon was being dismissive of crossdressers.  Just using the word fetish seems to prove that or the "just a crossdresser".   The lead up to this comment by the surgeon also raises some serious red flags.  I don't think you can ignore the fact that the surgeon was oblivious to the need for a functioning clitoris.

There's also the point that this surgeon seems to think you can make a medical diagnosis of someone being transgender with one meeting.  And she's a surgeon for heaven's sake.  She probably has no training in that sort of diagnosis.

Jessilynn do you have a therapist or other medical professional that you could talk to about this experience?


Take care,
Paige

[jessilynn]

That's what got this lady questioning me. That's why she asked if it was a fetish, or if it was a "crossdresser fantasy" She now has it marked in my file I am a crossdresser/ transvestite. I found that out a little less than an hour ago.
AND I find that I might not be able to get it for that reason. I am NOT a transvestite, nor do I want to BE one. (no offense to the individual who is one here. that's just NOT me) I have severe dysphoria with my body, I've told her that... I just want to be like any normal human and be able to experience sex. Apparently she just wants it to "look correct" not giving two donuts about functionality. But that makes me a fetishist. :,(



yeah I got fetishes, but my gender aint one of them.


Really odd, I was clear that I do NOT identify as a woman and  hoped to retain male function, and I got my surgery.

I want to restate that exhibiting internalized transphobia in the office probably didn't help you. All you can do now is regroup and  try again.  Best wishes.

Hugs, Devlyn

I have no internalized transphobia... fear and hate of men and being identified as a man... YES. I dont like men, and I dont like being called one.

[jessilynn]

Devlyn, I think I have to disagree with you.  It seems to me that the surgeon was being dismissive of crossdressers.  Just using the word fetish seems to prove that or the "just a crossdresser".   The lead up to this comment by the surgeon also raises some serious red flags.  I don't think you can ignore the fact that the surgeon was oblivious to the need for a functioning clitoris.

There's also the point that this surgeon seems to think you can make a medical diagnosis of someone being transgender with one meeting.  And she's a surgeon for heaven's sake.  She probably has no training in that sort of diagnosis.

Jessilynn do you have a therapist or other medical professional that you could talk to about this experience?


Take care,
Paige

I do, and I have... there is nothing they can do. I have an HMO, which sucks. As of right now, they have my whole surgery on hold until further notice. The b!**h said that I should hear back within 3 months of the decision.

So right now all my counsellor can do, is talk with me.

[rmaddy]

I do, and I have... there is nothing they can do. I have an HMO, which sucks. As of right now, they have my whole surgery on hold until further notice. The b!**h said that I should hear back within 3 months of the decision.

So right now all my counsellor can do, is talk with me.

Talking I think is still pretty important, especially to the extent that you seem to have been misunderstood and mislabeled.  Assuming your relationship with your counselor is good, I think this may help you, and possibly help redirect the surgeon as well.

In the meantime, it's super hard to wait, but decisions to go forward with GCS generally involve multiple periods of fairly long waits as the system sorts itself out.  I'm currently waiting for pre-authorization, after having waited for approval by our transgender care team.  Within my system, that's just how the process goes.  I realize that the encounter went poorly, but try not to see this as a refusal if you haven't, in fact, been refused yet.

Hang in there.

[Jessica Lynne]

The option if they do deny service is of course to file suit. You may mention that to someone in the loop now. Unfortunately,  I have consistently found in my life that the squeaky wheel is the one that receives the grease.

[rmaddy]

I'll ignore the fact that now you've  started comparing crossdressers to arsonists. You do know that many cis people compare ALL transgender people with perverts, right?  By the way, the answer to "Are you an arsonist?" is still a calm "No."

No I'm not.  I'm saying that the doctor's question, as framed, was highly unlikely to have been the sort of dispassionate demographic inquiry that you seem to think it was.  The doctor recast the patient's honest inquiry about sexual health itself as fetish (a word historically weaponized to deny trans people not only healthcare, but human rights), and while I suppose she could have simply said "no", I think it's beyond obvious that the physician was the one exhibiting transphobia, and I think Jessilynn could be cut some slack for having reacted to it.

I'm not punishing anyone here.

You're kicking someone who is down and assigning motive to her actions not justified by the related facts.

I'm offering my opinion on what it sounds like  happened, in order to find a solution. I  go to Fenway Health. Everyone there is gay, lesbian, or trans. The patients, the doctors, the financial officer, the janitor. There are  big women with beards, guys with tiny hands and curvy hips. Folks of everyTG stripe. Blurting out anything, anything at all disparaging there about any flavour of TG person would be a major faux pas. It's something a cisgender person would do...or someone who had internalized transphobia.

She said explicitly that she does not harbor any animus against crossdressers.  Neither do I.  My network of support consists of people from just about ever shade and hue of the gender spectrum.  I'm not sure why that (EDIT:  That is, her direct statement) isn't good enough for you, nor why you seem overly willing to assign innocent motives to the physician and ill motives to a member of our community who was simply telling the story of an interaction which, she would agree, went really poorly and resulted in significant misunderstanding.

She's going to have to go back through this process, I'm suggesting a different approach. It spunds like you're urging her to do the exact same thing again.

No.  I'm suggesting that you change your approach.  You didn't ask her if she thought crossdressers are part of us, fully deserving our love and support (they are).  You led with a formed conclusion, i.e. that she was transphobic, and locked on to it like a pit bull on a mailman's leg.  Oh, but there I go comparing you to terriers.

[Devlyn]

Perhaps we can continue the discussion elsewhere and allow Jessilynn to seek  her answer here? Our discussion is straying from the course. Maybe you and I can  move to the  Pets and Creatures forum to discuss what breed I am. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[SadieBlake]

Dev, you're lucky to be at as clueful a place as Fenway. And it's not that there's anything wrong with being a transvestite - that's the official APA term for cross dresser. The problem is that generally being diagnosed as transvestite disqualifies one for any insurance -- my electrologist screwed this up when she sent a bill to blue cross, using the wrong diagnostic code. She asked me "aren't they the same thing?". And in this context I didn't care about the labels. I did care that it introduced a month+ delay in reimbursement.

The OP isn't going to get approved for surgery unless/until that's corrected - again, if you're in a healthcare context that's a bit more modern, you may not face this stupidity and more power to you!

To repeat, the surgeon's job isn't diagnosis - unless they also happen to be a board certified psychiatrist or PhD psychologist and the crap she laid on the OP feels like the worst kind of gatekeeping. Unfortunately just based on the description of her situation I don't have any great ideas for improving things. :-(.

[Janes Groove]

Jessica you did nothing wrong and didn't display internalized transphobia.
I would like to reiterate Sadie.
If there were any justice in the world you would have a legal tort claim.
The doctor was 100% out of line and inappropriate.
Surgeons are basically cutters, not know for their bedside manner.  Empathy and compassion for the patient is in fact viewed as a hindrance to the successful practice of their craft. This is by design. This is why the WPATH guidelines require you to jump thru hoops with TRAINED psychological counselors who are TRAINED to approve your decision to have SRS. It seems to me that the surgeon here was the only one openly exhibiting transphobia.
The surgeons role is just to do the surgery. Why they're called surgeons.

[Devlyn]

Dev, you're lucky to be at as clueful a place as Fenway. And it's not that there's anything wrong with being a transvestite - that's the official APA term for cross dresser. The problem is that generally being diagnosed as transvestite disqualifies one for any insurance -- my electrologist screwed this up when she sent a bill to blue cross, using the wrong diagnostic code. She asked me "aren't they the same thing?". And in this context I didn't care about the labels. I did care that it introduced a month+ delay in reimbursement.

The OP isn't going to get approved for surgery unless/until that's corrected - again, if you're in a healthcare context that's a bit more modern, you may not face this stupidity and more power to you!

To repeat, the surgeon's job isn't diagnosis - unless they also happen to be a board certified psychiatrist or PhD psychologist and the crap she laid on the OP feels like the worst kind of gatekeeping. Unfortunately just based on the description of her situation I don't have any great ideas for improving things. :-(.

I'm at a clueful place like Fenway after my old doctor refused to address my transgender medical issues and  embarassed me, so dont assume everything's been peaches and cream for me. We're all in this together, I  get the deal.

[Dena]

I would question this doctors training. My PI surgery was preformed in 1982 and was a 2 step operation. The first step put everything in place and the second step was a touch up that fine tuned appearance. The idea of a 4 step procedure would date back to the 1950s. My surgeon was Dr Biber and he learned how to do the two step from John Hopkins who started treating transgenders in 1963. I know of no advantage to a surgery  with more than two step other than possibly in the case of somebody who is intersex and the doctors made a mess early on. Even in these cases, it possible to reduce the surgery to a two step.

My call on this is the surgeon is attempting to maximize their profit by hitting the insurance company for four surgeries instead of one or two. If this doctor wishes to provide this surgery, I would suggest receiving some training from one of the current surgeons on how to do this properly. If you have the money or insurance, Dr Ley currently has a fairly short waiting list but I don't suspect that will last for long.

[RobynD]

The idea of a 4 step procedure would date back to the 1950s.

Thats it! I was trying to remember where i had heard about like multiple surgeries and it was in the biography on Christine Jorgensen going through it in the late 40s, early 50s.

[reborn]

I believe a lot in signs and omens. This may sound crazy to most but I believe that it all happened for a reason. She is not the right doctor for you. Try to find another doctor who can take the insurance you have. BTW I am very curious who is the doctor doing 4 stage surgery?

[jessilynn]

I don't think she did.  Saying "hell, no" to an inflammatory question about crossdressers isn't anti-crossdresser...it's anti-rudeness.  It certainly sounded like a very awkward moment, and we've all answered questions inelegantly in the heat of the moment.

Jessilynn was the victim here.  I'm not comfortable with laying even an ounce of blame on her.  I'm not usually one for lines in the sand, but this is one I'd draw.

I do feel the surgeon is inflamatory. And after meeting them... She STILL wants to do the 4 step. Even after I ended up in tears in her office after I INSISTED I am a female who just wants to live life as a female. It's just sad the fact that she doesn't seem to care... or even have my best interest in mind.

I even told her that when I was a child I had tried to cut it off, and dreamed of being a girl. Her response was simply I feel all little boys go through that fantasy at some point in their childhood.
Yeah but it doesn't normally transcend to adulthood. But that didn't stop her ideas, or even change the opinion.

I mean I know in my heart I am a woman. I have been for a long time, I've never been a male, I'm just cursed with the body of one.

[jessilynn]

You don't need to have GCS to officially change your gender

I'm sorry... in my personal case, I kindly must disagree with you. I am not happy with the anatomy I have.

[jessilynn]

Devlyn, I think I have to disagree with you.  It seems to me that the surgeon was being dismissive of crossdressers.  Just using the word fetish seems to prove that or the "just a crossdresser".   The lead up to this comment by the surgeon also raises some serious red flags.  I don't think you can ignore the fact that the surgeon was oblivious to the need for a functioning clitoris.

There's also the point that this surgeon seems to think you can make a medical diagnosis of someone being transgender with one meeting.  And she's a surgeon for heaven's sake.  She probably has no training in that sort of diagnosis.

Jessilynn do you have a therapist or other medical professional that you could talk to about this experience?


Take care,
Paige

I have spoken to them. I have a whole team who is on board, but none who can say; "SHE'S A WOMAN! She WILL have this surgery in one go whether you like it or not." Unfortunately it does not work that way in an HMO.

I told one of my therapists, who handles my transition directly, that I want a new doctor. And she said "you might be put on a longer waiting list."

As the lists grow longer, my patience grows thinner. I am thinking it would be best to jump ship and land myself in something better :/ Though that would mean starting over. New therapist, new year on hormones, new electrologist, new laser NP, new doctor, and another year on the long ass waiting list :,(