ZERO/ SHALLOW DEPTH VAGINOPLASTY (VULVOPLASTY) QUESTION

[Linde]

It falls under the term cosmetic surgery, because it is meant to change the outside appearance of the human body.  No vital organs are involved in this surgery (unless one has the colon part of it), and the body cavity is only very limited involved (not really at all with the limited depth one).
It is major surgery because a lot of skin needs to be cut open, and rearranged, fat deposits made, etc.  But medically it is still a purely cosmetic procedure which has no medical requirement!

[Dorit]

I do think you have the use of cosmetic surgery wrong.  From Wikipedia:"Cosmetic surgery is a voluntary or elective surgery that is performed on normal parts of the body with the only purpose of improving a person's appearance and/or removing signs of aging"

The confusion comes from the fact that there is vulvoplasty cosmetic surgery for CISgender females that need to improve the appearance of their vulva for whatever reasons.  This does not apply to GRS, whether full or shallow depth vaginoplasty.

[Linde]

I do think you have the use of cosmetic surgery wrong.  From Wikipedia:"Cosmetic surgery is a voluntary or elective surgery that is performed on normal parts of the body with the only purpose of improving a person's appearance and/or removing signs of aging"

The confusion comes from the fact that there is vulvoplasty cosmetic surgery for CISgender females that need to improve the appearance of their vulva for whatever reasons.  This does not apply to GRS, whether full or shallow depth vaginoplasty.

You are correct.  The US Medicare System considers GRS to be a reconstructive surgery an not  cosmetic surgery!
https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Coverage/DeterminationProcess/Downloads/Kalra_comment_01022016_b.pdf

[jill610]

Let me chime into this as a person who made his living with research on how to control and prevent pre and post surgical infections.

I have been reading your posts for quite some time, noting to myself that you are very sensitive to infection prevention and minimizing invasive work. This now makes total sense given your occupation!

On the main topic here, I *briefly* considered zero depth and discarded the idea because I might someday want to have penetrative sex. I could not possibly say today what I will want in my sex life or partner 3+ years from now and the cost is a non issue as insurance covers it either way. Dialation is not that big of a deal (I honestly think some folks make it into a bigger production than it needs to be), and with 2-week hospital stays kind of the norm these days, post surgical complications due to infection is pretty rare (near zero or zero). So I really could not find a reason not to have a vaginal canal, but could find a lot of reasons to have one.  Fast forward a bit, and despite every relationship in my past being with a woman, I now solidly want a relationship with a guy. Who'd a thunk it? For sure I would not have been open to the possibility had my marriage survived.

We are all different (thank God, the world couldn't take another one of me for sure), but do consider that the future is of course a big unknown.

[jill610]

I am one of those women happy with my cosmetic procedure but I would like to straighten out one point you made. My partial or cosmetic vaginoplasty required approximately 6 hours of surgery. My doctors suggested that a full depth procedure would only have added an additional half hour to forty five minutes of surgery time. While this is a longer time under anesthesia, it is not a significant addition to the total time.

I am a bit confused on the length of time here - my understanding is that a full depth vaginaplasty is usually under four hours. Was there a complication? Mine was 3.5 with Ley/Meltzer Clinic. Who was the surgeon?

I have "heard" from a few surgeons that the difference in time between the two procedures is somewhat negligible on average.

[Linde]

I have been reading your posts for quite some time, noting to myself that you are very sensitive to infection prevention and minimizing invasive work. This now makes total sense given your occupation!

On the main topic here, I *briefly* considered zero depth and discarded the idea because I might someday want to have penetrative sex. I could not possibly say today what I will want in my sex life or partner 3+ years from now and the cost is a non issue as insurance covers it either way. Dialation is not that big of a deal (I honestly think some folks make it into a bigger production than it needs to be), and with 2-week hospital stays kind of the norm these days, post surgical complications due to infection is pretty rare (near zero or zero). So I really could not find a reason not to have a vaginal canal, but could find a lot of reasons to have one.  Fast forward a bit, and despite every relationship in my past being with a woman, I now solidly want a relationship with a guy. Who'd a thunk it? For sure I would not have been open to the possibility had my marriage survived.

We are all different (thank God, the world couldn't take another one of me for sure), but do consider that the future is of course a big unknown.

If I would be younger, and would have the chances for a sex life that would/could last many years, I would probably go for a full vagina, too.
Human sexuality is very important, and a healthy sex life is so, too!  And to have such a healthy sex life, one needs to have the fitting parts to participate!

Now fast forward to my age, a person well into her 70's.  It is a simple realistic assumption that my future sex life will not last for many decades!  My libido has to be found first somewhere under all the emotional junk in the subbasement, and the orchi certainly will nor help with finding it, and I would need a brain realignment to get away from preferring females as partners.  Because of these facts i feel that a minimal depth procedure is fine for me.

I don't care if another person would ever see my private parts down there, Ido it for myself, to make sure that I don't see the ugly junk I have when I step out of the shower.
I was altered shortly after I was born, and now I want to see my body to look the way it was always supposed to be!

Simply said, when I die, I want to lay in the coffin as a woman with the looks of female genitalia!

[Anne Blake]

I am a bit confused on the length of time here - my understanding is that a full depth vaginaplasty is usually under four hours. Was there a complication? Mine was 3.5 with Ley/Meltzer Clinic. Who was the surgeon?

I have "heard" from a few surgeons that the difference in time between the two procedures is somewhat negligible on average.

You really have me on this one, I don't remember because I took a nap that afternoon. Dr. Ley was my surgeon and she stated that there were no complications. Both Dr.s Ley and Meltzer agree that adding a full depth canal does not add appreciable time to the procedure, perhaps 30 to 45 minutes. My partner told me the time that I was away, leaving pre op to moving to recovery and it was between 4 and six hours but that was a year and a half ago and my memory of that time is a bit sketchy. Sorry if I misspoke.

Tia Anne

[jill610]

You really have me on this one, I don't remember because I took a nap that afternoon. Dr. Ley was my surgeon and she stated that there were no complications. Both Dr.s Ley and Meltzer agree that adding a full depth canal does not add appreciable time to the procedure, perhaps 30 to 45 minutes. My partner told me the time that I was away, leaving pre op to moving to recovery and it was between 4 and six hours but that was a year and a half ago and my memory of that time is a bit sketchy. Sorry if I misspoke.

Tia Anne

Ahhh prob 6 hour from wheel in to getting to the room, that would sound right.

I had ffs same day so I only have the actual length of each procedures to go by since I was under for 12 hours.

[Anne Blake]

Jill, I must say that the work Dr. Ley did for your FFS looks great. I have been following your story on that and you are looking good. I hope for half that success when I visit FacialTeam in April.

Tia Anne

[TonyaW]

Tonya,

I can't say for certain if my recovery time was shorter or not. After all I only had it done once and only shallow (bad joke). I can say that my recovery tracked the other stories that I have followed. No dilation made it easier. I still had all of the major incisions and work. The shallow means that I did have about an inch of depth thus some of the similar work, just not the length of depth and the fixation of the channel end. The length of surgery time was still in the five plus hour range and the ravages of anesthesia took the same toll. I got out of recovery center a day or two earlier than if I had full depth. The doctors gave me the same constraints on healing and activity limitations. It also took me a couple or few months to get back up to speed. I believe that having the full depth procedure is more difficult  but I have no data or experience to believe that recovery is significantly different. Probably a big case of ymmv. For what it is worth, riding a bike is still a challenge.

Tia Anne

Thanks for the info. I'm mostly concerned (hoping) that it's less time off of work.

I'm leaning towards a shallow at the moment. I'm not seeing a need sex wise for a full depth, no pre-op electrolysis, no dilation. Less time off work would just add to that.

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[Dorit]

Thanks for the info. I'm mostly concerned (hoping) that it's less time off of work.

I'm leaning towards a shallow at the moment. I'm not seeing a need sex wise for a full depth, no pre-op electrolysis, no dilation. Less time off work would just add to that.

I know a woman that had a shallow depth and went back to work three weeks later.  For me, I am self employed and work from home, but I would find it challenging to sit in an office for eight hours after 10 weeks post op!