Tink's Favorite quotes from our members (continued)

[tinkerbell]

For some odd reason I couldn't add any more quotes to my previous thread under the same name; hence I started a new one...and yes, it is LOCKED too to avoid potential drama! 

*********************************************************************

Even if we're post-op and "pass" guess we need re-assurance about our insecurities, need to talk with women who share our experience.

Exactly, from transwoman to transwoman.

Definitely a woman, but still a transwoman.

Tbh, i disagree with this sentiment... because she shares some of the issues still, or has an interest in the community, does that make her still trans?

afterall, shes now both physically and mentally a woman, whats trans about that? Does that mean an enthusiastic train fan is a steam locomotoive because they require regular fuel, water, and are interested in trains?

Tbh, i disagree with this sentiment... because she shares some of the issues still, or has an interest in the community, does that make her still trans?

afterall, shes now both physically and mentally a woman, whats trans about that? Does that mean an enthusiastic train fan is a steam locomotoive because they require regular fuel, water, and are interested in trains?

No, if she were 100% woman then she wouldn't be on the sites seeking support.
Granted some, very few, but some postops come on here just to support, the majority of them are still seeking support, as a transwoman, in a way that only another transwoman CAN support.

Incorrect.... are you saying women dont need support? She has some unique issues thanks to this, but none are trans specific...

Women have problems.
women talk and solve problems. So what shes on here? This forum helps people with more issues than just trans specific... I dont agree that there are subjects only a transwoman can support on... ive used this forum for 2 years because its a unjudging place i can ask questions that a regular girl my age might know, or talk frankly about my situation because i dont want to irl... none of the issues have been really 'trans' just trans related. Transwoman is a badge unsuitable for functional integrated females. in transition maybe... but there comes a point where a trans past is all that is...a past, weather one visits a place like this or not.

tink

[tinkerbell]

Re: Passing...what are the most quintessential female traits?

There is one and ONLY one ladies - ATTITUDE!

Every natural-born girl KNOWS she's a girl and that's all that matters, even if she is built like a linebacker and has a voice like a fog horn or rides a Harley and dresses in leathers and chains! She knows who and what she is and that's that! She isn't "passing" she is just BEING who she is and is not apologetic about it.

Only transsexuals worry about "passing" and that  gives off huge vibes of insecurity.

tink

[tinkerbell]

I think the reason that non transsexual women hold us in such contempt at some times is because they are under the impression that some of us are saying that being a woman is merely an "idea" or a lifestyle choice and I think some of "us" are actually saying that.  Feminist?

I think that is why there tends to be such division at times on support forums.  Often times someone will say, "How on earth can you go from one closet to another, letting people believe you are a woman and hiding the truth?"  "What, how can you just bury (your) past as a man and live a lie?"  Or how can you bury (your) past as a transsexual or transsexual woman or trans person or ->-bleeped-<- and live a lie?  Someone recently said, "Some of us can pass as women but we let people know we are trans because we aren't ashamed of what we are."  To me being a woman isn't an exercise in shame and it makes me wonder what such a person believes they are.

To me being a woman isn't an idea.  To me being a woman isn't a way to "hide the truth".  To me being a woman is who I am.  I have always been female and transition was a way for me to be a woman, when did being trans become an identity?

Being born as I was was like being born a spoon and having everyone think you are a knife.  Everyone expected me to be good at cutting stuff when I really was designed to scoop up stuff, even though my body betrayed me.  I realize it isn't that simple but I expressed it that way in order to communicate that it is a core truth about someone, being a woman is like being a human being or being a goldfish, it is not an "idea" it is how one experiences life and transition was a means for me to have the experiences I was being denied.

I didn't transition because I identified as trans, transsexual, transgender...  I transitioned so I could begin having the experiences I had been denied all my life and how does outing myself as trans allow me to have the experiences I have been denied? 

Some people say well we are transsexual women.  I don't know about you but I wasn't born identifying as a "transsexual woman" and I don't know anyone who treats transsexual women the same way that they treat women because when you say you are a transsexual woman what you are really communicating is the idea that a man can become a woman and no one believes that - and in their minds if you were really a woman then you would be a woman, not go around confusing people by telling them you are trans or transgender or a trans woman or a transsexual woman.

In order to live as a transsexual woman or a trans woman or "whatever" and still be a woman you have to limit the world you live in.  I think many people limit their lives to an Internet existence because on the Internet anyone can be a woman (or a cartoon or a furry or a transformer) but out there amongst the nons... the rules are different.  We keep thinking we can change the rules but in order to change the rules the entire world has to be convinced that being a woman is an idea and I don't think everyone goes along with that.

an identity? 

When did being a woman become an "identity"?  Merriam-Webster says that 'Identity' has to do with character or psychological identification.

Many people including scientists and sex therapists, doctors.. recognize that our largest sexual organ is our brain.  And it is believed by many that GID is an intersex condition of the brain, male body, female brain.  Psychologists and doctors recognized years ago that it was impossible to re-sex the brain and instead transition became a means for people who suffered from GID to be able to have normal lives.

Now anyone can argue what it means to be a woman but for some of us it isn't a matter that is up for argument or debate, some of us are stuck being female, even when we were trapped in male bodies, forced to grow up male.

An identity?  An identity is something you cultivate or adopt, character, disposition.. for people with GID this is not a matter of "identity".  Think about it, even you people who have GID, this is an opportunity to reconsider your situation, did you transition because woman was your "identity"?

I know that when I entered puberty and my body began being flooded with male hormones, that was when I knew that I was cursed by god and that was when I realized I had no place in this world.  When I finally was able to start hormones and anti-androgens it was like putting ice on a second degree burn.  Finally I had relief, finally I had peace.  That wasn't an idea, that was not the result of an "identity" that was 'biology'.  Hormones do not equal "identity" hormones = biology, chemistry, 'physiology' not "psychology".  I did not transition because I "thought" I was female, I had to transition because I 'think' female, I process female, I experience life and other human beings, situations and emotions as female and my prescription for better health was not ideas, or identities,  my cure was biological.

I knew I was female before transition, I became a woman through transition, transition was like delivery or birth, not something people identify with (for me) but rather a rite of passage or a unavoidable necessity.

I didn't become female by constructing myself.  I was a woman whether or not I ever wanted to be a woman.  It was something that was assigned to me at birth, it was not a decision or a construction.  I transitioned because it was the only way I could ever have a life.  If I could have "constructed" myself I would have been male, it would have been easier, I would have had more prestige and the world would have been easier to navigate not to mention having saved thousands of dollars I could have applied to vacations or investments or conquering the "lesser" sex.

But no, I found out first hand that the lesser sex is not lesser nor is it a "construction", not because I wanted to find that out, because that was the outcome of being born female.

tink

[tinkerbell]

For some odd reason I couldn't quote Caprica, but here is what she said on a recent post:

Quote by Caprica-6

"if someone (even if they can't really explain it) just knows that they are female and have always been female and the only way they can ever have any relief and if the only way they can ever have any sort of meaningful life is to use a medical process called transsexualism in order to have that life then the way for that person to have a successful "transition" and a happy, meaningful life is to find themselves at some point living as a woman.  Not as a "transsexual woman" but rather as a woman because 'woman' is a word that represents the identity of such a person whereas "transsexual woman" means absolutely nothing.

However... there are some people who identify as "transsexual women" who believe that we are not female but rather we have constructed our gender, meaning our "gender" is fabricated.  Like our "gender" was an idea or a desire and so we engaged our desires and our ideas and now we are living our dream but it is only a dream fleshed out with constructions and fabrications and as real as you can imagine it to be (cause nobody wants to bum your high,) unless you begin to insist that you actually are a woman and then these people need to begin to point out to you that everything about you that is "woman" is lie.  Because woman is only an idea, an intangible dream and everyone gets to be equally legitimate (playing) the part because this is like a modern elementary school where everyone gets a passing grade regardless of their (performance), we are all equals and womanhood is a concept that needs to be applicable and equally achievable to 'everyone', that is how we were able to bring everyone together under the TG umbrella for a taste of the rainbow.

Something else I just thought of..  I think some people are comfortable in the beginning identifying as.. "A woman trapped in a man's body."

And in the end they are comfortable identifying as.. "A transsexual woman."

But they feel like they will never be what they needed to be, they feel like fate has caused them to be something other than what they needed to be.  They perhaps feel that just being a woman is delusional but what they don't realize (possibly,) is that for some of us not describing ourselves with words that cause others to think of us as males is just another part of transition like changing our wardrobe, using hormones, having surgery, wearing makeup.  What some people may not realize is that for some of us integrating into Society as females and thus having social interactions based upon being female - - That is just another part of transition, a transition that is designed to allow someone who feels they have always been female to have the experiences they need in order to feel like a complete or whole being.  Such a person might respond with, "I had a birth anomoly that was taken care of, I prefer to avoid discussing it thank you."  Instead of, "Why yes I am a transsexual woman and damn proud."  Because to some of us the words that come out of our mouths are just as important as the quality of our female voice.

And to some of us the most important thing about being a woman is (being) one as opposed to trying to redefine the term "woman" so that some of us don't have to deal with the shame issue of being compelled to explain ourselves.  I am not ashamed to be a woman so if anyone asks me what is up with me, I am going to respond to them like any woman would, either ignore them or ask them what their problem is.  Because I am not ashamed and I don't feel any need to explain myself and explaining creates misconceptions.

And for anyone who feels that anyone else needs to "pay back" the so-called "community"..

In the words of Zerkatwork.."

In any social justice movement it is important to impress that it is not the job of any given member of that oppressed group to educate their oppressors about their oppression

part 1:



part 2:




*********************************************************



Or as a wise woman once said:



"Most of us transition hoping to lead a normal life somewhere down the road.  For some people, that may involve living as a post-op transsexual, for others, it's trying to live a normal life as a woman (or man) which often requires some level of stealth. 

I don't think anyone who has endured the rigors and horrors of transition is under any obligation to anyone so I find this idea of an implied debt to the trans community a bit offensive.  If you want to be out, be proud, be an activist, whatever, please do so--I respect your choice--but please don't suggest that I have a similar obligation.  I don't.  The choice between out and stealth should be just that, a choice, an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations".



There! 


tink

[tinkerbell]

I see a danger in the premise of the general public viewing all of us lumped together with a common label. At the end of the day, the so called Drag Queens etc, go home, take their face off and relax.

Now I have to use the word transsexual  because it is the only one universally  recognized to be GID at its extreme. The transsexual is not able to just just go home and relax and become Da Man for awhile, it is not possible.  She is pure and simple required to be that woman twenty four hours a day, if she wants to transition fully.

Wendy

tink

[tinkerbell]

There's a good chance that you were "okay" with being a girl becuase you didn't realize there were other options.  You probably spent most of your life assuming that gender=sex because that is what everybody is taught.  Similar problems abound among the LGB.  They have been taught that falling in love happens between a boy and a girl, so when they have a crush on someone of the opposite sex or find them attractive, they do not recognize their feelings as such.

Humans have a knack for coping with oppressive situations by persuading themselves that it isn't all that bad. Especially when there's no escape in sight and it seems like that's all there'll ever be. I think this is how tyrants have been able to keep populations subjected for ages and ages. By psychologically getting them to believe there's no alternative. Ideologies that preach submissiveness to power are used to indoctrinate the masses to have no thought of rising up and overthrowing the oppression.

In history, one analogy reminds me strongly of my gender experience: In 1989, all over Eastern Europe, one Communist government after another fell to popular uprisings. The Iron Curtain disappeared, the Berlin Wall came down, and not much later even the Soviet Union dissolved. It all took place so quickly. All the Communist governments in Eastern Europe fell within the space of a few months.

In December 1989 as the masses in Romania were rising up to overthrow the dictator Ceauşescu, I heard political commentators on All Things Considered analyzing the situation this way: As long as people are completely kept under tight control, they acquiesce to their oppression, thinking there's nothing to be done about it. But once they start to get a taste of freedom--they will struggle hard to get more and more freedom. They then feel that continued oppression is unbearable and they refuse to submit to it any more.

That was precisely how my gender went. I'd been brought up to believe that there was nothing I could do about being male, no matter how much I hated it, so I just had to grin and bear it. But once there appeared a chink in the Berlin Wall of my gender, I quickly set about breaking it down, demolished it, and escaped to the other side. And no power on earth could hold me back. To my family it looked so sudden they were dumbfounded. But that's how oppression fell in Eastern Europe, and that's how it fell for me.

tink
Post Merge: January 18, 2009, 03:29:19 PM

Growing up the wrong sex is a way to grow out of touch with your inner being and the longer you spend as the wrong sex the more out of touch you are going to be with your inner sex or inner person.  And why not?  All those other females have had the 'experiences' of growing up, learning and gaining all sorts of information that we never had access to.  Someone said, "Just be yourself."  The problem is that just being yourself will get you read quicker than a New York minute, if you had to spend your early years growing up in the wrong sex role.  Besides someone who has been living life with testosterone flowing through her veins is going to experience life differently than someone with an estrogen dominated endocrinology.


And yet so many women who transition to become their "true selves" often Assume that they know it all and all they have to do is, "Be themselves."

If Being a woman or a female was as easy as looking female and believing that you are female then that would reduce women to ideas and appearances but there is more to being a woman than an idea and looking like one.  There was a difference between the wooden Pinocchio and when he became a real boy.  There is a difference between looking like a female and believing you are one and having a female life and people who are "accepted" as "females" are going to have a different experience than people who don't need any acceptance.  It takes work but if you really need it, it is worth the effort.  If you don't really need it and if redefining womanhood to blend in with a male upbringing is good enough, then that is just something I really can't begin to relate to.

What I mean is this..  out there in the real world women are never "accepted" as women, they simply are women.  And someone who has "acceptance" as a woman isn't going to experience social interactions as a woman because "acceptance" is what we get when people don't actually believe we are women.  "Acceptance" (something so many of us work so hard for) and try to gain by educating people... it is counter productive and never has the desired effect of allowing one to experience social interactions as a woman.

Some of us really believe that education is what is necessary.  And some of us need to believe that we are being "accepted" as women, so that is what we believe.  If we need to believe that there is life after death then we will probably believe that too.  People believe what they want.  But the experience of being "accepted" as a woman is not what it appears to be or it is not what some of us believe it is.  Of course if you disagree with me then in your world you will always be right because instead of getting out there and knowing the world, most of us sit back and experience the world as ideas.

tink

[tinkerbell]

Interesting choice of words.  Do you think I or any other transitioning or transitioned TS had/has less willpower than you?  I repeat--and Leigh has said this far more forcefully than I--if you can avoid transition, do so.  The costs are very great no matter how smoothly your transition.  You will remain an oddity afterwards to many people and if you go stealth, you will live with the fear of discovery.

I'm not sure why you describe this as a moral mess.  If you don't accept this as a medical condition then you see it as a mental disorder?  Are mental disorders less valid as medical conditions than say, brain tumors?  I realize that it how society views this but will you consider yourself a failure if you are compelled to transition?  I hope not.  I don't see any moral issues here.

I had a degree in engineering and an MBA. I had a beautiful family and a rocketing marketing career. I was well respected and did not have to worry about money. There was no internet. I knew no one who could help me with my problem. That would all change.

For me, in my situation, I lost everything.  For those who have read my book, you know. I did play the "what if" game for a while and went forwards and backwards several times.  But once everyone knew about me, all bonds were broken, all bets were off. There was nothing that would stand in my way. I lost ALL of my family at one point and all of my friends. I lost my job and my status.  I lost my religion and my faith. I was publicly excommunicated. I was openly humiliated where I worked. I was followed by church members and I was physically abused. I was legally disowned by my parents. I was literally told to leave my home state. I drove to CA with only a few clothes in my leased car and I rent a room. I cut my food budget to 10 dollars a week. Electrolosys always had a priority before food.  I'd frequent the bars during happy hour for food and I'd crash a wedding party when I could swing it. There were many dayes every month when I did not eat. I did telephone work talking dirty to men in addition to the demeaning work that I could find.  I paid child support when I didn't have a place to live. For a while I was homeless; I lived in my car. I would have done almost anything to get what I needed. Friends of mine in Hollywood who had the same drive were not as resourceful as I. They turned to the only thing that they could do to raise the money needed. Two of them contracted AIDS and they comitted suicide.

For me, at that time, once everyone knew.  I could not stop the progress.  It wasn't a question of need or carefull decision making.  Although I managed to pay my child support (from credit card advances), I would have even abandoned them to make it happen. What Steph is saying is that the power is so strong that you are powereless to stop it.  I could not stop the squirrel from moving forward.  I was ready within one year. I had my papers. I had the money (also borrowed... from loan sharks). 

I had my surgery alone.  I did not tell my family. My friends did not know. I only told one; she drove me to the airport and picked me up. Every time I told anyone anything, someone from my church would show up to attempt and stop it.  I was not paranoid. It really happened. They followed me everywhere. The phone calls never ended. The letters of mindless bigotry and hate never stopped coming.

I've read accounts here, and I don't mean to offend, where counselors have asked and probed to find this fighting monster attacking to move forward.  They don't find it.  Consequently, the process is slowed while you take a step back and reexamine your alternatives.

Had my analyst asked a question in a similar vein, I would have steam rolled right over her to find someone else to give me a script or a letter of recommendation.

Okay, I've let out the secret.  If you don't feel it, if you don't live that drive, if you can't muster that fight to claw your way up the sheer granite cliff, if you won't sell your very soul to get it, well... I'm not sure what to say.  I've met many others in our situation.  Those with the drive find their lives. Those that don't, fall by the wayside somewhere in endless group sessions and therapy.

This is as close to the cold hard truth as I will ever post.

Cindi

tink

[tinkerbell]

I have called being transsexual a blessing within a curse.

Now that I have transitioned I am most happy and rejoice.  And frankly those things that happened to that other guy are now just a distant memory (and nightmare).

Prior to my transition, of course, the curse was most apparent in his life and cast a long dark shadow over everything he did.

He was not celebrated for being two-spirit.  He was not viewed as a shaman in his life.  He was lonely and bullied.  He could not see how life could be anything except a grim toil until such time as oblivion took him.  Toward the end of his life, he could not see any joy ever coming into his life so he actively sought to end it.  He almost succeeded.

He sleeps now in my heart as a mother cradles her wounded, broken child.  I mourn for him.  He carried me, protected me.  And for him, I rejoice, I can look at his life and understand the agony he experienced.  But I see the beauty he never saw.  I wish there was some way for him to know and understand that it is alright now.  I want to go back in time and tell that fearful little boy who could not understand what was happening to him and tell him why he was such a pariah.

And also tell him that there would be joy.


-Sandy

So beautiful and sad at the same time!   


tink

[tinkerbell]

A lot of people seem to think that orgasm is King of the battlefield when it comes to sex reassignment surgery.  And sadly I think we try to sell "transitioners" on SRS based on the orgasms.  I would like to see people having SRS because they are women, not because they want to have a better orgasm.

But I think the hardware only functions right when the embedded software matches.  So anyone considering a body mod might consider that before becoming a skin xdresser.

tink

[tinkerbell]

Are transitional surgeries (SRS/top surgery/FFS, etc) reconstructive surgery?

They're only 'corrective' or 'reconstructive' if the parts being worked on are somehow dysfunctional.  Any form of SRS is cosmetic surgery.

Being physically repulsed and feeling nauseous by touching a part and hating the sight of it, not to mention emotional distress when it performs its supposed function... I'd say that was pretty dysfunctional, in that it doesn't function properly in the way it's supposed to, in the context of the entire organism. And it's detrimental to the physical and mental well-being of the person concerned, preventing them from living life to the full.

So... reconstructive in that it can reconstruct a person's sense of self, sense of place, sense of well-being, ability to enjoy parts of life which they've previously been denied, ability to function confidently in society... perhaps.

tink

[tinkerbell]

The point is that once you're post-transistion, meaning post-srs and getting or having new documents, you're no longer trans-anything, so the label or whatever they want to try and call you doesn't apply.

It's a fair arugment since you're legally identified and recognized as female all the resources for you now are for women, not transwomen, except those which apply to your past, and all the laws for you now are for women, not transwomen. All your social identity is as a woman and with women. What's not to understand there's nothing the community has to offer post-transistion women?

It's not being elitist, just pragmatic and realistic, to simply decide your past is just that, your past, and not your present or future. What's not to understand? It's a fair and reasonable choice post-transistion women make. Nothing says you have to carry the trans-badge forever.

tink

[tinkerbell]

Reasons to cherish being transsexual.

After testing my resolve, courage, sanity , driving me to attempt suicide, making me depressed and costing me my sons and a load of money, I cant really think why I would want to cherish being transsexual..... Its ruined most of my life.

Buffy

tink