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The Sad tragedy of those living Stealth. Do our greatest successes live in fear?

Started by From_Ariel, April 12, 2011, 06:20:44 PM

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From_Ariel

FYI I want to say in advance for those that are like WTF who is this person I prefer instant feedback more then forums... I have been a longtime chatter on the IRC though tbh less active in recent years then I used to. Overall Susans and especially the IRC chatroom has been a major good thing in my life for going on 6 or so years now. Although in the last year I ended up admin'ing on another forum so yeah.. lol.. but I digress.. I wrote what I thought was a good post on stealth on the site I help run and wanted to share my thoughts and feelings here.

Reposted here from the other site I help run IDK if it's allowed to name the site maybe somone can let me know and I'll add it later.. :D
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The Sad tragedy of those living Stealth Do our greatest successes live in fear?

"Stealth" is when you do not reveal to anyone that you were ever born differently then you are today. Although the argument can be made that yes they/you always were girls, the argument can also be made that they were always girls but had to pretend to live as boys for a time. Persons in stealth / deep stealth will never allow their "secret" to be found out by friends and coworkers for fear of reprisal. Persons in stealth will also make little white and huge whopper lies to cover for themselves. Those in "Deep-Stealth" often move away from friends and family they have known for years sometimes never even telling them of their transition so that they can hide their secret completely. Thus some friends and family that might have still loved them even after transition are lost and the person is lost to their family. Possibly leaving family members that care very much behind and they will never see them again.

Imagine if one day someone you loved just moved away and disappeared with no answer no reason nothing. You'd likely be worrying about them for year after year possibly forever. Especially if you had a good relationship with them prior to them disappearing and didn't know this was gonna happen. Don't do this to family. Just cuase it may seem easier to you not to face rejection, imagine if they surprise you and support you. Further, why would you hurt people that love you just so you don't have to face the possibility of a rejection that may never happen? People please consider these things before abandoning your loved ones.

There are several reasons that I think this kind of living is unhealthy. The most clear reason to me is this.. I personally didn't go from lying to try and pretend to be a boy/guy only to live my life still lying now that I can finally be myself. Sure I don't wear a t-shirt saying I'm trans, or tell the cashier at the store. At the same time though if the store clerk asked me if I think transgendered persons are weird or wrong, I would likly say, "Do you think I'm weird? Cuase I AM transgendered as well." (assuming the clerk didn't know and made a comment for unknown reasons, lol)

This kind of "Stealth" living has left our community with either not passing to decently passing activists that are out and loud and not afraid cuase they know they can't pass as well as others and less people that show what is truly possible becuase those that pass 100% are the ones most likely to go stealth becuase they can. This I think is one of the tragedies of "Stealth" and the greatest shames of our community because our greatest success stories will never be known for they are all in hiding.

This has the effect that in the end the media and political circles show pictures of TG/TS people at protests and rallies and the bulk of those that show up for such events are ones that aren't afraid because they don't pass as well already. If one doesn't pass perfectly they have little to lose by reaching out publicly. I want to be clear I AM NOT insulting anyone here, but I know for a fact many gorgeous girls that hide and fear of anyone finding out they were not born as they are now. Those that do pass do not reach out to the rest of the community because they are afraid if they are seen helping others like them they will get treated badly and discriminated against. Whereas if they can pass and stay silent there is no risk of discrimination.

I also want to say I don't blame those that prefer to live in stealth for this. I understand all to well the fears of discrimination, but how can we ever end discrimination if our greatest successes are all in hiding? How can we be taken seriously? It is so sad that when people live in stealth for their own sake they are actually reinforcing those same stereotypes that cause the discrimination in the first place on us all.

No one should have to live in "Stealth". No one should have to fear they will be hurt or mistreated if it is found out they were born with a different letter on their birth certificate then now. And IMHO admitting that you were born with a physical sex that doesn't match your true gender identity does not undermine or lessen who you are. A person I knew used to say "I'm a woman with a very unusual medical history". That if anything is true of all of us.

In the end if you feel you have to live in "Stealth" to avoid discrimination, that you have to live your life filling it in with lies to cover your origins are you really living? People in stealth will make up stories of them as young girls playing with barbie or about their first period not to avoid being outed in conversations with other girls even when they NEVER owned a barbie. Some are so scared of being outed that if someone was trash-talking another TG/TS person right in front of them they would stay silent to avoid being found out.

Just something to think about and something I wanted to share. Personally I strongly dislike "Stealth" and "Deep-Stealth" even though I see why some choose to do it.

Quote"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-- George Santayana ~1906
When we try to forget who we are and the experiences of the past, are we just propagating the same life of fear on future generations? Will our civil rights remain in infancy as Santayana stated as long as there is still those living in "stealth"?
Be yourself!
Those that Matter don't Mind.
Those that Mind don't Matter.
--Ariel
  •  

Sarah Louise

Many of us "living in stealth" are not doing so out of fear, but doing so because we just want to live our life without unnecessarily broadcasting to everyone about us.

Its really none of their business.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
  •  

From_Ariel

Sarah I'm going to qualify this becuase I fear I might be misunderstood, and I'm concerned you took offense to my post from the tenor that I got out of your very short and terse reply, I don't mean to sound argumentative sarah... I really don't I am curious as to your thoughts..

Tell me if it weren't for the current lack of social acceptance in the social environment in general don't you think there would be less in stealth?

I mean why do you feel it must be a secret so private if it's not something we would suffer some reprisal from? Fear is not an uncommon thing in life in general and I think it diminishes no one to admit fear plays a role. I also fear talking about Doctor Who, Star Trek, Labrinth, The Dark Crystal, The Princess bride and Star Wars in front of some people even though they are my most favorite movies cause they will think I'm a nerd and a dreamer when I need them to think I'm serious. There's a stigma there too, not of the same level but I can honestly say yes it's fear.

Fear both protects us and hinders us it is a natural reaction and not one to be ashamed of that we all have. I tried to make it clear that I understand why people go into stealth and that I think it is a shame that society makes this feel a necessary step to some of us sometimes. I don't blame those in stealth I blame society. My point being that until we are willing to stand up and shout from the rooftops like the Million Man March we aren't going to get real recognition in society.

I'm deathly afraid of heights and I rarely put myself in a position where 1.) I have to deal with heights and 2.) have to tell someone of my fear for "fear" of them thinking I'm silly.


  • Are you literally telling me fear plays no role?
  • Are you saying that if society accepted this as a valid condition and it was treated in childhood like birth defects are you wouldn't feel less apprehension to tell people or of them finding it out on their own?
  • Can you honestly say that stealth in any way helps us to improve our rights and our acceptance?
  • Is stealth going to get us legal and medical care and protections we need easier and at young ages?

Be yourself!
Those that Matter don't Mind.
Those that Mind don't Matter.
--Ariel
  •  

annette

Hi Ariel

I think I'm living partly in stealth.
Not for a choice, just don't thinking about it.
I explain, my closest friends and relationships I have always told from the very beginning who I was, and what my past was.
I did always get a lot of understanding and those friends I allready  know now for more than 20 years.

We stopped talking about it long ago, I'm just one of the other girls.

At work I don't tell, why not?
Well, they see me as a woman, they treat me as a woman and I'm there to do my profession, that's why the company pays me for.
I'm not a better professional when I say: hey, you know I'm trans.
I don't think there would be any problems with it, but actyally I don't even have thinked about it.
For them I am just one of the girls and that;s the way I'm feeling myself.

After all, that's what I wanted in the old days, just to be a woman, so, I don't see it as stealth, I'm just myself.
And to be just yourself is the ultimate freedom for me.
Maybe it's too long ago since I transitioned, in daily life I don't think about it.

So, if this is living in syealth....it's not too bad.

hugs
Annette
  •  

Sarah Louise

I disagree with your premise, nothing more.   I wasn't offended by your post.

Its not secretive, its not private, its my life.  I have never been worried about "social acceptance." 

I'm not an activist.  I see no reason to go around telling everyone "oh hey, I'm TS."

People who I see at the mall don't need to know, people who knew me in my old life obviously know but don't care.

----

Oh, I didn't mean to sound terse, that is just the way I type sometimes.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
  •  

From_Ariel

I just wish that the stigmas was not so great socially.

Personally I think we could get more rights and more protections and better health care if we all got up and shouted to the rooftops.

Also tbh many in stealth are some of the most passable people I know and I find it sad that the public at large doesn't realize that passable trans-people are not the minority that they seem to be. It just adds to the confusion and misunderstanding people have of us.

If only we could walk out there and all as a group not as activists but as people that ARE being discriminated against and ARE downtrodden that deserve to be heard for once.

quoted from... http://transequality.org/news.html#survey where over 6500 transgender persons were surveyed myself included lol.


Among the key findings from "Injustice at Every Turn":


  •     Respondents were nearly four times more likely to live in extreme poverty, with household income of less than $10,000.
  •     Respondents were twice as likely to be unemployed compared to the population as a whole. Half of those surveyed reported experiencing harassment or other mistreatment in the workplace, and one in four were fired because of their gender identity or expression.
  •     While discrimination was pervasive for the entire sample, it was particularly pronounced for people of color. African-American transgender respondents fared far worse than all others in many areas studied.
  •     Housing discrimination was also common. 19% reported being refused a home or apartment and 11% reported being evicted because of their gender identity or expression. One in five respondents experienced homelessness because of their gender identity or expression.
  •     An astonishing 41% of respondents reported attempting suicide, compared to only 1.6% of the general population.
  •     Discrimination in health care and poor health outcomes were frequently experienced by respondents. 19% reported being refused care due to bias against transgender or gender-nonconforming people, with this figure even higher for respondents of color. Respondents also had over four times the national average of HIV infection.
  •     Harassment by law enforcement was reported by 22% of respondents and nearly half were uncomfortable seeking police assistance.
  •     Despite the hardships they often face, transgender and gender non-conforming persons persevere. Over 78% reported feeling more comfortable at work and their performance improving after transitioning, despite the same levels of harassment in the workplace.


Said Rea Carey, Executive Director of the Task Force: "By shedding light on the discrimination that transgender Americans face, this study poses a challenge to us all. No one should be out of a job, living in poverty, or faced with sub-par health care simply because of their gender identity or expression. The scope of the problem is clear, and now we must come together to solve it."

Said Mara Keisling, Executive Director of NCTE: "Reading these results is heartbreaking on a personal level—each of these facts and figures represents pain and hardship endured by real people, every single day. This survey is a call to the conscience of every American who believes that everyone has the right to a fair chance to work hard, to have a roof overhead, and to support a family. Equality, not discrimination, is the ideal that Americans believe in, have fought for, and need to apply here."
Be yourself!
Those that Matter don't Mind.
Those that Mind don't Matter.
--Ariel
  •  

From_Ariel

I'm not really "Asking" for anything more expressing my frustration that sadly....



  • Society makes stealth a necessary reality for so many of us.
  • We can't get recognition, rights and respect until we can come out of the dark.
  • We can't eliminate stealth while we got no recognition, rights and respect.
  • Wash. Risnse. Repeat.

It's a horrible viscous cycle. If we keep saying things like future generations then when will be the generation that does fight back?

It just makes me sad I really hope I'll see some kind of equality before my life ends but fact is we are easily 20-30 years behind the gay and lesbian community in terms of how much progress were making socially, and even they don't have equality yet. Add to that the self imposed exile and self perpetuation conditions of stealth and idk if we will ever get to equality and that scares me and makes me really sad.

edit: for one were also not as small of a minority as it seems those figures of 1 in 10,000 etc have been proven to be WAY off base the reality might be as high as 1 in 2500 to 1 in 500. I really wonder if you counted every single one of us stealth or not I bet the number would surprise many that think we don't have the numbers / power to push for rights.
I mean diabetics is less common then that and they have a significant power and push for example.
Be yourself!
Those that Matter don't Mind.
Those that Mind don't Matter.
--Ariel
  •  

Sarah B

Hi Ariel

You said in your title 'The Sad tragedy of those living "Stealth" our greatest successes live in fear'.

Well I'm sorry but I' going to have to totally disagree with you just on the title alone.  I do not, I repeat I do not live in fear and I'm just one of many who have been successful in my life and absolutely nobody around me knows anything about my past life. This is the way it has been for the last 22 years and will remain so for the rest of my life.  This is just the way I am, that is I'm a very private person in regards to this particular issue and its nobody's business, whatsoever.

I do not like the terms stealth, deep stealth or even passing, they do not apply to me period.  However just to clarify my situation.  I left my family and friends 22 two years ago and they did not know where I was going, however through circumstances beyond my control my family found out and luckily for me they have been very accepting.  My past friends do not know and only a couple of doctors know my past medical history and everybody else does not know, my partners I tell depending on the circumstances.  I tell the truth in regards to my past and the only difference being are the 'pronouns' used by me and my family.   So in other words for the sake of this discussion, 'I'm deep stealth'.

Another reason why I live the life I do live is due to the fact of the article 'Injustice at Every Turn' that you posted.  However, should it come about that my past is revealed, I will be protected by the laws where I live and I do not live in fear of this scenario or anything similar, because one there is not one damn thing I would be able to do about it and secondly I know there are a lot of people around me who would be totally accepting.

As Sarah Louise basically puts it but with a difference.  My life is private, it is not secretive, I have never been worried about "social acceptance" and if people do not like me that is their problem, I'm not an activist and I see no absolute reason why I should go around telling everyone "oh hey, I'm TS or TG", because the fact of the matter is I'm not, never have been and I will never will be.  I did not go through what I went through just to be labelled with those labels.

I live my life, just as any other female does in society.  I took care of certain things so that I could function just like any other female and as Annette said, "to be just yourself is the ultimate freedom for me."

Warm regards
Sarah B
Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story
Feb 1989 Living my life as Sarah.
Feb 1989 Legally changed my name.
Mar 1989 Started hormones.
May 1990 Three surgery letters.
Feb 1991 Surgery.
  •  

From_Ariel



EDIT: It seems people are taking offense to the title so I am going to edit it as I think this is an important conversation and that if the title alone is inflaming passions so much then it clearly is not communicating my true intent....
From.. The Sad tragedy of those living "Stealth" our greatest successes live in fear.
To....... The Sad tragedy of those living Stealth. Do our greatest successes live in fear?


I'm not disagreeing with anyones comment's here other then the fact that obviously fear is a factor in being stealth.

Also I don't understand why people think you have to be either stealth or an activist. That seems very black and white to me.


Shouldn't we be able to stand up for our rights? Why is it that I keep hearing "activist" and "I'm not an activist"? When a people are oppressed and they fight back are they activists or are they just people that want justice.


Were the people at the stonewall riot activists? or just people that had been pushed by cops discriminating and they fought for their rights?

Were the people at the million man march activists? Or were they just people tired of the black community being treated like second class citizens?

QuoteI do not, I repeat I do not live in fear and I'm just one of many who have been successful in my life and absolutely nobody around me knows anything about my past life.

I do not like the terms stealth, deep stealth or even passing, they do not apply to me period.  However just to clarify my situation.  I left my family and friends 22 two years ago and they did not know where I was going...  So in other words for the sake of this discussion, 'I'm deep stealth'.

Another reason why I live the life I do live is due to the fact of the article 'Injustice at Every Turn' that you posted.  However, should it come about that my past is revealed, I will be protected by the laws where I live and I do not live in fear of this scenario or anything similar, because one there is not one damn thing I would be able to do about it and secondly I know there are a lot of people around me who would be totally accepting.

I can only ask reread your own words and think about them...
QuoteI do not, I repeat I do not live in fear
QuoteAnother reason why I live the life I do live is due to the fact of the article 'Injustice at Every Turn' that you posted.
QuoteHowever, should it come about that my past is revealed, I will be protected by the laws where I live and I do not live in fear of this scenario or anything similar, because one there is not one damn thing I would be able to do about it

Just think and look inside. Fear is not a bad thing. It protects us as is clear you understand by your comment "Another reason why I live the life I do live" Why are people equating fear with being a bad thing?

I think it's sad that we have reasons to be afraid and we do have reason to be afraid. We are raped, abused, discriminated against, unemployed and murdered more often then any other social group. That is not our fault it is societies fault that we live in fear. The stigma needs to change and hiding is only a temporary solution at best.


I just question how are we to ever get recognition if we are a silent, invisible minority? We aren't alone many other people that were oppressed shared our same challenges blacks didn't go into "white" sections of town before the civil rights changed and often lived in their own self imposed segregated communities to try and "avoid trouble". Similar can be seen with other racial and even religious groups. Irish, German, Korean, Vietnamese, Japanese, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish. All trying to find a way to harmlessly blend in and not stand out as being any of the above.

Is stealth just a modern incarnation of those earlier times and those other peoples?

In my mind stealth is just like when in the past Jewish people felt scared to freely admit their faith whereas the more dominant faiths talked freely about their beliefs and would make comments as god bless you etc. Similar issues to that can be seen today with Islamic followers that these days are cautious to let the wrong person know of their faith. Whereas thier christian(et all) will say god bless you, many islamists feel concern that the wrong person might hear them say "Allah bless you"....

Wow after a google search i found others then just Islamic use Allah commonly I wonder if they fear reprisal or confusion with Islamic extremists if they say it publicly..
Quoteused not only by Muslims, but also by Bahá'ís, Eastern Catholic Christians, Eastern Orthodox Christians, and Mizrahi Jews
Be yourself!
Those that Matter don't Mind.
Those that Mind don't Matter.
--Ariel
  •  

Arch

Quote from: From_Ariel on April 12, 2011, 06:20:44 PMPersons in stealth will also make little white and huge whopper lies to cover for themselves.

This is a gross generalization. I, for example, have never lied in this way. Perhaps you should consider changing that "will" to "might."

I've always been a private person, and that hasn't changed. I'm pretty open on this site, but mostly because I can be anonymous here.

While I do have a certain amount of fear that people will find out about me, I have many reasons for living stealth, or as stealth as I can. One is that I don't want to be anybody's poster child or Trans 101 educator. I want to do other things with my life, like just enjoy living as a boy for a change.

P.S. I don't think it's a tragedy that I'm living stealth, but I do think it's a pity that I had to live as a girl for so long.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
  •  

Sarah B

Hi Ariel

If you change the title, then I will change my answer in accordance with it.  Namely and I quote:

Quote from: From_Ariel on April 12, 2011, 09:24:42 PMFrom.. The Sad tragedy of those living "Stealth" our greatest successes live in fear.
To....... The Sad tragedy of those living Stealth. Do our greatest successes live in fear?

Absolutely and categoriclly NO.  If I lived my life in fear then my life would be an empty shell, I would not have achieved the things that I have achieved.

This is how I chose to live my life and the question that is, "Would I do anything differently, than I have done in the last 52 years?, except of course, done what I have done a lot earlier and the answer is of course "nothing".

By the way I told a little white lie, I'm an activist but not out, but a silent one none the less.  I work behind the scenes protecting others peoples rights and influence many people each day.  There is an old saying, "You have to be careful of the quiet ones".  I guess I have to say, "I'm one of those" and yes I'm doing my bit.

Warm regards
Sarah B
Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story
Feb 1989 Living my life as Sarah.
Feb 1989 Legally changed my name.
Mar 1989 Started hormones.
May 1990 Three surgery letters.
Feb 1991 Surgery.
  •  

rejennyrated

I think it depends on what you mean by stealth.

My definition of stealth is someone who will actively construct a false past and deny the truth when challenged. Maybe someone who is so delusional that even when confronted with hard evidence will be reluctant to be honest.

By that standard I do not live in stealth. The information about me is out here on the net and relatively easy to find if someone wants to go searching for it. However that does not mean that I wear a tee shirt advertising my past, nor do I routinely tell people of it. I have done so on occasion if it would be beneficial to a situation, but there is a world of difference between confiding in one or two people, when appropriate, and living your life as a flag waving poster-girl.

Do I allow open discussion of trans issues on my facebook page? No. Do I routinely confront my colleagues and friends with my past? Again no? Why don't I do this? Well not because of fear certainly, but out of consideration to them. Effective communication means the passing on of relevant information. It does not mean the willful bombarding of people with irrelevant stuff that they don't need to know, and which would probably achieve nothing more than to confuse them. So I will reveal my past only when the information is relevant and would benefit the recipient.

Finally it is a matter of self belief. I partially transitioned in childhood, no mean feat back in the 1960's, but I managed it. I fully transitioned and had my SRS in my early twenties. When you analyse my life there are very few inconvenient bits which don't fit and which therefore might have to be concealed. If asked to self define I would call myself a post corrected cis woman rather than a trans woman.

You may take me to task about my bending of terminology but the fact is that whilst not denying that I underwent SRS to get to where I am I simply do not experience life through the same lens as many trans people I meet. I have not experienced discrimination - EVER! I have not lost family and friends - EVER! I have not been fearful - EVER! So in a very real sense I don't get it because I haven't lived it. And yet here I am, and I am arrogant enough to think that one day my experience will be the norm.

If you actually believe in the treatment then completion of it must represent a cure for the condition, thus if you were ever trans, then when you have had SRS you are no longer such. And if you don't believe that the treatment will cure you then you probably shouldn't be having it!

This is my norm. I was born with a medical anomaly. I had it corrected without fuss or delay. I am an ordinary woman, but I have had an interesting life journey which I don't bore people with the details of unless it becomes relevant. End.

That is not living in fear. It's just getting on with my life.
  •  

Rabbit

I'm amazed people are saying they don't live in fear and don't see the relevance of if the people around them know or not ...

I was asked a while ago while at a job if I was gay (it was a casual conversation and people were talking about relationships)... I was even afraid of saying I was bi! And that is in the middle of hollywood, california... in a local culture fairly gay friendly. Trans isn't even close to where gay acceptance is, so how could anyone say they aren't afraid of people knowing their trans status?

The day you can say you are trans as casually and without question as you can say you are male or female is the day you can say you aren't afraid. If you pause for a second and worry about what the reaction of those around you might be (or how it will make you feel, such as uncomfortable or exposed or whatever else), then you are still living in fear.

If you still want to say you aren't afraid... please tell me where you live! I might consider moving there someday!
  •  

zakfar

A community does not need to be 'Big' to be 'Strong'. Sometimes, even a 'Single Person' can make a difference.

Ariel I got your point and you are correct. Though the others' points are noteworthy too.

Technically, we should not try to 'Hide' ourselves. What we are, are what we are! But why boast around? And yes! No man says anyone that... 'Hey! I'm a man!' No woman says anyone that... 'Hey! I'm a woman!' Besides, when we call upon 'Trans' people, I completely dislike the concept of considering them as a different 'Gender' than the normal 'Male' & 'Female'. This 'Trans' thing is only for the community to join, discuss, and work together. However, for the rest of the world, we should be considered as normal 'Males' and 'Females'... though born with some dysfunctional body, and now cured. Getting 'Trans' as our Gender/Sex gives the appeal that we are 'Different', which is not required. It is not stealth. It is just treating Gender/Sex like any other normal human being does. Just consider yourself what you are... like either male or female... whatever you are.

But yes, some people are always highly motivated to help others. Those people become activists, and they need to expose themselves to others that they are Transgenders.

Some people have fear, and some not. But I'll say here, fear is not entirely bad thing. This 'Hiding' thing actually helps sometimes. It is not necessary to tell someone something he/she does not like. Sometimes people want to accept, and compromise, but their mind have very low tolerance for such thing, and they dislike that no matter what. For example, a female can feel high 'Jealousy' for the ex of her husband, even though she knows how much he loves her, and he has no feeling for his ex anymore. If her husband, for some reason, would tell her about his past sexual experiences with his ex, she would never like it. Hiding things that cause negative mental response to the listener is more like 'Idiotic'.

It is so sad that our societies (all across the globe) have negative feelings for people with 'Non-normative' sexual orientations. Some of them don't actually 'Hate' us, but have other negative feelings then - like Fear (of destroying the social system, or functional morality, or their religious believes), Sadness (for being Perverts), or some other negative emotions. Though many things have changed in last few decades, there is still much to be done to actually bring the desired changes, and help the world learn all about LGBT Psychology and Philosophy. To be honest, most of us ourselves don't know who we 'Truly' are. How can we explain others than? Lot of research is still required on the topic.

I just joined this board, and I really like this place. I will be contributing more here.

I hope this helps.

Zakfar.

  •  

rejennyrated

Quote from: Rabbit on April 13, 2011, 01:10:31 AM
I'm amazed people are saying they don't live in fear and don't see the relevance of if the people around them know or not ...

I was asked a while ago while at a job if I was gay (it was a casual conversation and people were talking about relationships)... I was even afraid of saying I was bi! And that is in the middle of hollywood, california... in a local culture fairly gay friendly. Trans isn't even close to where gay acceptance is, so how could anyone say they aren't afraid of people knowing their trans status?

The day you can say you are trans as casually and without question as you can say you are male or female is the day you can say you aren't afraid. If you pause for a second and worry about what the reaction of those around you might be (or how it will make you feel, such as uncomfortable or exposed or whatever else), then you are still living in fear.

If you still want to say you aren't afraid... please tell me where you live! I might consider moving there someday!
In many parts of the UK you could.

However you are missing one point, which is that as I said the SRS is supposed to be a cure. Thus once done you are no longer strictly Trans. I have indeed admitted to having undergone the surgery on many occasions in precisely the casual way that you propose.

And no I genuinely do not feel that my past is always relevant, but if you choose not to accept my point of view and prefer to live in a perpetual trans security bubble that is of course your right.

  •  

Rabbit

Quote from: rejennyrated on April 13, 2011, 02:32:34 AM

And no I genuinely do not feel that my past is always relevant,

To a society that judges you (if they knew) and the rest of us (many without the option of passing)... and for those who are judged because society does not know what we are capable of being... it is relevant.

*shrug* I don't tell people either though. I'm afraid. I just want to avoid trouble for as long as I'm here... I don't really care about society after my life ends.
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Northern Jane

I have been 'on this side of the fence' since 1974, age 24, initially "deep stealth" for 15 or 20 years and "semi-stealth" since and I will share my thoughts on the matter.

From earliest childhood pretty much everybody knew I was "different" - there was no hiding it! By the beginning of public school, I was fighting against being miss-gendered and being difficult about it. By puberty I was trying to find medical help and to avoid being institutionalized for 'my delusion' and by my mid teens I was actively trying to educate doctors (and others) about a condition known as transsexualism and to force open doors to treatment and acceptance.

I was never interested in girls (except as friends), never dated, never married, and fought for understanding of the difference between transsexual and Gay. I lived part time en femme, whenever I could, when it was totally unacceptable and illegal (if found out), and couldn't pass as a boy even when trying. I was "out", I was militant, I was vocal, and I was pushy (to the medical establishment). In most cases, I was the first transsexual that most doctors and/or clinics had ever seen and usually educated the medics in return for treatment (or at least consideration).

By my early 20s my strength was pretty much gone - I had fought as long and as hard as I could and my fate lay in the hands of others. Thankfully by then there were others, two doctors in particular, who had come to see the necessity for medical (surgical) support and, thanks to them, I found my escape, thought it cost me everything I had - money, family, friends - that's just the way it was back then.

After SRS/transition, I didn't care about "the fight" - I had done my part and it nearly cost me my life. I hung around the 'gender clinic' (that I had helped establish) for a short time, just long enough for them to see the changes (at which they were astounded) and then the highest priority (for me) was to get on with my life - THAT is what the whole war had been about - being able to live a normal life.

I never had any fear of being outed - I just wanted to be left alone to make my own way, just as any other girl, and the only time my medical history was ever a concern was medically (where it could effect my health) or if a relationship was becoming serious. My medical history DID become gossip (as a result of a demented clinic worker) but I was firmly entrenched in my community and it had little effect. I was so comfortable and accepted in my new life that the rumours were dismissed as untenable. Now, after 37 years, many of my closest friends know a little (or a lot) about my childhood and it doesn't bother me because I know who and what I am and they simply can't imagine me any other way (not that I ever was any different!). It is pretty much a non-issue.

I fought in the war, I was there to liberate the beaches, I did my part, and I feel no obligation to return to the fray, thank you very much. The war I fought was to live a normal life, not "life with an asterisk"! If someone feels I owe some continuing obligation to the cause ..... TOUGH!  ;)
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Amazon D

HEY ARIEL  if your so into being out where is your picture for this site?

I am basically stealth (legally) too but i have also camped out at the US capital for 23 days and nights for trans inclusion in ENDA in may 2002 and i had congressional staffers ask me why i was there trying to help THOSE PEOPLE  i said because i am one of them and they said OH ..

being out everywhere is sticking your face in other peoples business and we just need acceptence and not special treatment.
I'm an Amazon womyn + very butch + respecting MWMF since 1999 unless invited. + I AM A HIPPIE

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Nero

Just an aside - I can think of several very visible transpeople who pass well - Andrea Jacobs, Calpurnia Addams, Lynn Conway, Isis King, etc. I don't think the public's image of us is due to lack of passable/attractive transpeople. The image of the prostitute or man in a dress is just a lot more appetizing. The same as the public cherishes the image of the young black male deviant.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Serra

As the general sentiment seems to be, I'm not stealth, but private.  I see no reason to tell the cashier at the local grocery store my medical history.  If they ask, it's not their business.  If a close friend asks, pointedly, I may tell them as they can be trusted, but that's different.  Were I not in a long term relationship I would disclose to any lovers, because if they got freaked out, why would I want to sleep with them anyways?
It's not a matter of hiding, but of whose business it is.
Rawr.
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