Ok, so with introductions out of the way, I would like to ask some questions to the members of this community. Perhaps I should wait a little longer before posting my own topic, but these questions have been on my mind for months.
A brief disclaimer: I understand that "YMMV" and that genetics and seemingly fate have a lot to do with the final outcome. I think I am looking for personal experiences as well as a more general "is it possible" kind of thing rather than "is this what will happen". I also realize that answers to my questions may lay in various other threads, but my scouring has so far only given me partial answers. One last note before I proceed to my questions - I consider myself an androgyne and do not desire to completely transition. I am a biological male who identifies more with the female gender but do not want to completely abandon my male side. As such, I want to add some "femaleness" to both my mind and body.
So, my questions are concerning HRT. My hopes at this point are to begin a low-level (not full transitional level) regimen of HRT after meeting with a gender therapist. Seeing as how I have no particular aversion to my genitalia and my wife and I have a great sex life, would I be able to maintain use of my penis while on HRT? Has anyone gone down this road before? Also, my wife and I are considering another child which we would hope to accomplish prior to beginning HRT - but would a low dose mean certain sterility? If we manage to get pregnant before HRT, I would consider this more of a bonus than anything, but does that mean my wife wouldn't need to be on the pill anymore or should we still be concerned about accidental pregnancies?
My next question concerns breast growth. I've seen a lot of personal accounts from people that are a year or less into HRT and I know development doesn't stop at that point. I plan on continuing to work in male mode and I'm concerned that if I end up with a C-cup, that could be a little tricky. If I take genetics into account, my mother's side has women who are all a little larger overall and so naturally have larger breasts. My father's side has woman that are more my size overall (I'm skinny) and are pretty small breasted. I think that means I can expect to be smaller, but I would just like to hear what other people's experiences are. Maybe even some biological females could chime in to help me overcome my fears by telling me how they hide theirs.
Last question (sorry for another long post). What effects of HRT were noticed first? I think this is going to be a very subjective question but I am more interested in psychological changes and view the physical changes as a bonus. Did you start to feel different inside before noticing any physical effects? How would you describe those feelings? I think I've read where some people know right away that HRT is not right for them while others know right away that it absolutely is right for them. I've also read about people feeling a sense of calm, a more even tempered personality and just an overall better outlook on life. Is this how you would describe your experiences?
Sorry, I'm going to throw one more question out there. Discovering that I am an androgyne has already given me a lot of comfort, but I feel the need to actually "do" something about it. Just knowing in my mind isn't enough. If HRT isn't right for me, what kind of changes have you made in your lives to feel more congruent with what's in your mind?
Thank you all again for providing such a caring, open place with lots of knowledge to share.
I think hormones could be a dangerous path for you. It doesn't really sound like your ready for the effects of female hormones.
No one can promise you that you will maintain erections after being on hormones for a length of time. No one can promise you what size your breasts will grow to. No one can promise you that you will not become sterile.
These are all things that can/will happen on estrogen. If both you and your wife are not on board with that, I would wait.
I am bigender, but I started out thinking that I was an androgyne (and they continue to let me hang around here LOL....). I'm also on a low dose HRT regimen. I want to share my experiences so that you know what you will be potentially be facing if you go this route.
My dysphoria in girl mode was driving me crazy - there is a member here that described it as a noise in her head that she could not escape, and i had the same noise as well as repetitive, incessant thoughts about girl stuff. It was GID, and it was driving me insane. Since i'm bigender the feelings switched on and off at random times as i flipped between boy mode and girl mode.
I felt results within 2-3 weeks of starting HRT. The noise and incessant thoughts stopped dead cold. The physical changes started within a few months, and they were the classic ones - fat redistribution, small boobs, etc. Those were the side effects i was willing to accept in order to get the sense of calmness that i was missing, and being bigender i didn't really mind them. And i am far more emotional now - for example, there are TV shows and movies that i simply can't watch without tearing up. The uncontrollable flip flopping between boy and girl mode became something that i have some control over now, which is nice.
The ability to father children - i've had mine and i'm past that now LOL..... but the equipment still works, sorta. It's hard to start and often stalls out. It's also become a zero emissions device if you follow my drift. That happened within 8 months. I have to warm it up now for quite a while before i hit the road. The feeling that i get is also the one described by many - a full on body experience and not just a localized sensation.
I've been told that HRT can either have the calming effect that it had on me, or it might be the thing that triggers a high speed toboggan ride toward transition, so that's something you might consider.
I like that you plan to talk with a therapist to help you sort this out.
Melanie - Sarah Louise is right. Hormones, especially estrogen for the MtF, MtA, or AtF, are a big step, especially for a young androgyne in a hetrosexual, child-bearing relationship. You can't always predict the exact effects they are going to have.
And you are gong to find it very difficult, as I have, to locate a medical/psychological team that endorses low-dose HRT for the androgyne.
There are plenty of ways to feminize your male self, short of using estrogens (of any dose). You will come across these on the boards from time to time, and in the archived threads.
If you do go the hormone (and/or hormone-blocker route), you will need to seriously consider sperm banking. HRT can leave you irreversibly sterile in a few short months. It may also leave you impotent.
With that said, you wanted some real life experience. I am a male-bodied, bigendered, bisexual, androgyne, with "persistant pubertal gynecomastia" (meaning I have had moobs since I was a young teen and that my natural hormone levels were not in the normal male range). Last year, I started seeing a "family therapist" locally, because there are no true gender therapists near me. She wasn't very versed in trans issues (perhaps more in gay and lesbian issues), and she wasn't really on board with a GID diagnosis, but she recognized that I had some level of gender dysphoria, and I was able to convince her and a sympathetic GP that lose dose HRT might be worth a trial. Which is not exactly "by the book." I get a liver function panel and blood work done every 3-4 months.
I had already taken Aldactone (spironolactone) as a diuretic for a couple of years because of hypertensive heart disease, so I went on the lowest dose 17 beta estradiol patch. (Interestingly, my cardiologist took me off Aldactone when he increased the dosage on another potassium-sparing ACE inhibitor.) The first thing I noticed on the patch was that my nagging dysphoria more or less vanished. The second thing I noticed was the renewal and expansion of the breast buds I had for 40 years. I am still ambivalent about my current state of "blossoming," and I don't feel ready to jump in with both feet. Consequently, I have sought out another therapist.
This is somewhat atypical, as far as I know, but androgynes seem to be the trouble-makers and envelope pushers in the trangender world. My low dose HRT regimen has helped in some respects, and has had unexpectedly quick complications in another.
Okay - so yeah. I understand that this is not something to undertake lightly (that's why I'm doing all this research, discussing things with my wife, asking questions here and going to see a gender therapist). I understand that I can't pick and choose the effects I want. I want to make an informed decision and as such I'm asking what other people's experiences have been. If I decide to go this route, I'll deal with the consequences of things I may not like in exchange for hopefully a whole bunch of things that improve my quality of life.
Rivan, I can totally relate to the noise in the head thing. I am encouraged to hear that the noise stopped for you. You describe the "side effects" that you were willing to accept for that sense of calm and that is exactly the way I feel. I don't view all of the physical changes as negative and the ones I do are why I'm here asking questions so I can weigh the pros and cons. Of course all of this is even before talking to a therapist so I'll be even more prepared when I go there.
The sterility isn't really an issue for me. If we decide to have another child, we'll do that before starting this treatment. Believe me, it won't take long. Two pregnancies each within the first month of my wife going off the pill, so I don't think that will be a problem. I was more asking I guess how sure I can be that I will be sterile. I know this stuff can make "bad" swimmers as well as no swimmers and I would hate to have my wife stop taking the pill and then we end up with an accidental pregnancy that might have complications.
Thanks for the replies so far. I'm still hoping to hear some more personal experiences...
Quote from: riven1 on March 01, 2012, 01:32:17 PM
The ability to father children - i've had mine and i'm past that now LOL..... but the equipment still works, sorta. It's hard to start and often stalls out. It's also become a zero emissions device if you follow my drift. That happened within 8 months. I have to warm it up now for quite a while before i hit the road. The feeling that i get is also the one described by many - a full on body experience and not just a localized sensation.
Oh yeah, also wanted to add that my wife and I discovered my ability for female orgasms a while ago. Since I started on this self-discovery tour, we've been consciously making love like two woman (even though this is really what was going on all along). The only difference is what I have between my legs and she really enjoys that part of it. That's why I'm concerned with the equipment working. If it stops working - well then we'll just find some other creative things to do.
When you find the right therapist and doctor combination that understand what low dose HRT is, and they are becoming more and more available, you will not be started on a level that is used by MTF's. The most likely thing is you will get to try a very low dose of spiro.
This will tell you in less than a week, probably within a few days, if it is right for you. It's used as a testosterone blocker and at low doses is not going to permanently cause any changes in the short (months) term. If it quiets the rage, so be it. You'll notice that and not much more if anything else. The kind of dosages that many MTF are taking, are much higher. If you are going for MTF transition, the dose will be much higher.
The amount of literature available to doctors and therapists is becoming extensive. If they are having problems finding what they need to know, I can give you the name of my gender therapist who literally started and wrote the books on non-binaries. He is the one who first proposed the idea of a spectrum and is still considered a leading if not the leading expert in the field. I work with a team of people who make it a priority that the information is current and correct. They are all willing to freely disribute this information to any doctors and therapists who wish to be current in their knowledge of meds and the way they are used for Non-Binaries.
What is right for transexuals is a whole different thing than what is right for Androgyn's and other Non-Binaries. You cannot and should not rely on old information that is simply not right for Androgyn's and anyone not looking for a full transition.
The steps are much smaller, delaying any extensive 'damage' for a length of time, that will let you decide what is right for you.
Any doseage information and the results that are any older that just a few years is out of touch and is not being used by any knowledgeable doctors. It will pay to find one that is current with what is going on in the world of Non-Binaries. It is not the same as what is prescribed to those seeking full or near full transitions.
There are Non-Binaries who haven't the need to go to the extent of using Estrogen. Simply lowering the effects of Testosterone is enough. In quite a few cases, the effects are reversible to a high degree, less so as the years go by though. At the lowest doseage, the effects are minimal for quite some time, with few if any physically noticeable changes.
Just quieting the 'noise', the GID, may be all that you are, in the end, looking for.
I would be very wary of advice from anyone who is not directly familiar with the needs of Non-Binaries. It is usually wrong and very outdated.
Ativan
Wow. Thank you so much! This is exactly the kind of information I have been hoping to get. The clinic I'm going to has the following on their website:
"What does Trans* mean?
We've used the asterisk symbol (*) here to indicate a variable condition, and reflect a broad range of gender identities and experiences. We are using Trans* as an umbrella term that includes anyone identifying along the transgender spectrum, those who consider themselves bi-gendered or multi-gendered, as well as people who do not identify with any labels."
They also say this about the first appointment:
"In this session a psychosocial history is taken with special focus on gender identity development and role expression through the person's life, including past transition experiences. Additionally, Informed Consent requires an understanding of the risks and benefits of beginning hormone therapy. As such, part of this session is educational in nature"
I think this place will be perfect for me. I think they'll help me decide what is right for me based on what I hope to accomplish. It sucks I have to wait so long for my appointment. I've been so discouraged some days that I've wanted to just cancel and try to move on with my life, but I think we all can agree that probably isn't a viable option.
Fantastic post, Ativan.
Melanie Anne: That sounds like a place well worth waiting for the app't. When the word is around about clinics such as that one seems to be, the waiting list can be long. Gives you an idea of how important it is to many people to have a place that is current on meds and the ever changing diversity and needs of Non-Binary People. Hang in there, it's worth it.
Jamie D: Why, Thank you! *blush*
Quote from: Ativan on March 03, 2012, 11:58:04 AM
Melanie Anne: That sounds like a place well worth waiting for the app't. When the word is around about clinics such as that one seems to be, the waiting list can be long. Gives you an idea of how important it is to many people to have a place that is current on meds and the ever changing diversity and needs of Non-Binary People. Hang in there, it's worth it.
Jamie D: Why, Thank you! *blush*
I appreciate honest and open information. Especially from those who have already been around the block. That's why I signed up.
Thanks for the post Ativan - it pretty much describes what I'm trying to achieve.
I've just started on meds, and the dosages are low - I'm hoping to get rid of the noise without going too far with things so to speak.
Definitely, a therapist and endo who are on the right page will go a long way. I last saw my therapist a few years ago, and only saw my endo this week but he was happy to get me started.
With Spiro, you should feel the effects in less than a week, maybe just a few days. It's subtle at first, but when you recognize it, you'll start to understand the effects and what it is doing for you. You can try higher doses, I did, I eventually went up to the doseage used to fully transition for awhile. I didn't feel any different and the physical changes, mainly my testicles and penis, were happening to fast. I went back to the low dose after I had stopped all together for a month. The physical changes have reversed for the most part, and I feel pretty good in the GID dept.
I've been OK'd to try estrogen if I want. I'm thinking of doing just that. The effects at very low doses, which is what I want (it's important to me that it is, 'what I want'), may or may not do what I think it may do. I'll just have to find out by trying.
Who knows,...I just may feel like going the distance, some here have. It's a way to find yourself, it's all just trial and error.
Hopefully no major errors, which is what low dose is really about. Lets you have a peek maybe about who you are. Maybe not.
Being non-binary is a journey, just as life should be. Ours is a different one than most peoples.
Have fun and stay out of trouble. Good luck to you and others who are trying this path. I hope it becomes what you are looking for.
Ativan
Thanks so much for your reply Ativan. This is the kind of personal experience I was hoping to hear. When you say "it's important to me that it is 'what I want'" I can completely relate. I think just that psychological effect (like what you describe with spiro) is pretty much what I'm going for. I don't believe I could ever completely "pass" just on HRT because of some physical characteristics I have that HRT won't really change and I can't afford to surgically alter. So I am just looking for relief from the dysphoria. I am considering talking to my doctor about either Finasteride or Dutasteride though to try to help with one of those physical changes (MPB). I know spiro is the most common thing to be prescribed and I wonder if the other two will provide the same kind of psychological change. Without knowing a whole lot, I'm not sure just blocking testosterone (or DHT) would be enough without also adding E.
I already feel like some change has happened within me - I'm able to open up more and be myself more where before I always repressed saying things or acting a certain way. Now I'm just being who I'm comfortable being (which is hard since I've been repressing things for so long I'm having to rediscover who I really am). I'm really getting excited now and less stressed because the time is coming that I'll be able to do something about this. I have an appointment with a therapist next weekend so I'll finally be able to talk these things through with a professional. Wish me luck and I'll post updates if anyone's interested!
I only started my meds this week and my endo suggested low dose estrogen to start. I have a Follow up appointment in 6 weeks with blood tests prior. It will be interesting to see how I feel by next appointment - we may move onto a blocker as well.
As far as the order of the meds were concerned I really didn't have a definite preference - do talk and find out which effects may help you most and then request the appropriate meds. If you have good clear reasons for one or the other the doctor should be reasonable enough to accommodate you.
Good luck!
Any updates could be important to those who look at this thread. Any and all current information would answer a lot of questions people may have. Low dose HRT for non-binaries is still a new thing for many people and professionals.
I will update if I choose to start estrogen. Updates and information about how Finasteride and Dutasteride work could also be very helpful.
It's a hard thing to do, getting past repression and rediscovering/discovering ones self. Those are the first steps towards getting rid of GID.
You need to know as much as you can about yourself before making the decision to try Low Dose HRT. It is a very big step to take. It does have it's own risks and you need to be aware of the changes as they happen. Like I said, I hit a point that made me back off on the doseage. The decision I made and the way it went was from knowing as much of who I am. That knowing was a process that started a few years ago.
I felt comfortable in my knowledge of myself after a couple years working with therapy. It took until I found the right people who know what low dose is about. It's not something to just lightly go into, you have to pay attention to the changes to stay on the path that is right for you.
I am a little over a year now using spiro. It has taken this long to make the decision of using estrogen. But, that is me. It's the path that I want and like to be on. Others are going to be different. It's likely to make a significant change. Move forward, by all means. Low dose can be the best for some, it may not be for others.
By all means, do what is right for you. But, knowing what that right is, is the most important thing of all.
Ativan
Thanks everyone! It's informative to read first hand accounts how this is working for other non-binary people. I'm currently in discussion with my therapist about possibly starting HRT, if I proceed, I will report back here.
Z
i had flomax for prostate problems. it made my nipples sore sensited to touch. couldn't shoot cum. stop taking it.
as a M2A transitioning person on full transition level hormones (M2F) I see my ideal end point as being a bearded Lady. I am curious on what is avaiable info wise about non binary trans people I've struggled to find acceptance from medical people to be willing to accept me for who I am and allow me to transition toward who I am. even though they only see the binary genders as normal. If there are any websites I can point my doctor at or that I can look at myself then that would be great. It often feels like there is no-one like me in the real world or at least not in my state
@Kinkly: Email me.
If I had the restriction for PM's lifted, I would use that, for many here it would be safer, but in the mean time, use my email.
I can give you the info you need to pass on to your Doctor.
You are not alone here.
But, like you and many others, finding ourselves in real life is difficult.
I only have a friend who is trying to understand.
To understand beyond my ability to do so. :)
Try http://www.phs.umn.edu/ (http://www.phs.umn.edu/)
It is where I go, it is who I trust.
The initial idea of a gender spectrum was initiated from them originally in Europe.
I consider them to be the leading experts, as many do, in the field of HRT.
Ativan
"Ya'll" might be interested in this article I recently posted; https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,117366.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,117366.0.html) .
http://www.phs.umn.edu/ (http://www.phs.umn.edu/) they may be able to answer a lot of questions for low dose HRT, as well as full transition HRT.
Like I wrote, if your Doctor needs more current information, they are a great source.
Ativan
I'm going to a therapist today (finally) and can't wait to discuss these things with her. By the way, as an update, I've gone back away from the whole androgyne thing. I'm definitely a woman but because I don't see myself doing a full transition I think I was looking for a way to justify my path. I don't feel that I need to be accepted in society as a woman (as some of you do). I just want to feel better about myself. So I brought up this androgyne and HRT thing because I really want to do HRT without ever presenting to society as female. I guess that can bring certain complications as changes happen, but no matter what HRT does (except maybe C-cup boobs), I'll still be bald with a heavy beard and a deep voice so I can't see that people will confuse me appearance for that of a woman's. Is anyone else currently on this path?
Quote from: Melanie Anne on March 24, 2012, 08:16:53 AM
I'm going to a therapist today (finally) and can't wait to discuss these things with her. By the way, as an update, I've gone back away from the whole androgyne thing. I'm definitely a woman but because I don't see myself doing a full transition I think I was looking for a way to justify my path. I don't feel that I need to be accepted in society as a woman (as some of you do). I just want to feel better about myself. So I brought up this androgyne and HRT thing because I really want to do HRT without ever presenting to society as female. I guess that can bring certain complications as changes happen, but no matter what HRT does (except maybe C-cup boobs), I'll still be bald with a heavy beard and a deep voice so I can't see that people will confuse me appearance for that of a woman's. Is anyone else currently on this path?
To some degree our paths are similar, except that when i'm in girl mode appearance is pretty important to me.
Quote from: Melanie Anne on March 24, 2012, 08:16:53 AM
I'm going to a therapist today (finally) and can't wait to discuss these things with her. By the way, as an update, I've gone back away from the whole androgyne thing. I'm definitely a woman but because I don't see myself doing a full transition I think I was looking for a way to justify my path. I don't feel that I need to be accepted in society as a woman (as some of you do). I just want to feel better about myself. So I brought up this androgyne and HRT thing because I really want to do HRT without ever presenting to society as female. I guess that can bring certain complications as changes happen, but no matter what HRT does (except maybe C-cup boobs), I'll still be bald with a heavy beard and a deep voice so I can't see that people will confuse me appearance for that of a woman's. Is anyone else currently on this path?
I present full time as Bearded Lady although I do get get He / sir more then I like I'm also planning to just Do HRT but often think of surgeries
Hi Melanie,
Just want to show my thanks for you posting this, I saw a lot of what I'd like for myself in what you posted and feel like I may be on the same path as you in the not too distant future. You are so lucky to have a wife that is so accepting, I think mine is the same but things are at a much earlier stage.
Will be keeping an eye on this thread please keep us updated :)
edit: just realised it's a bit of an old thread, any update on your appointment at the therapists? hope it went well!
x
I had initially intended to transition fully, but due to my age, my profession at the time and my marital status coupled with family considerations I eventually opted for an androgynous presentation. I would have had an excellent outcome, but after all of those previously mentioned considerations there is the business of the absolute necessity of having an extensive female wardrobe I'd have to continually roll over to remain fashionable with enough shoes and matching purses. Then there is the daily application of makeup and use of skin care products, light perfumes, nails. My hair is grey and thinning on the crown, I would need professional help there and constant coloring tune-ups so my roots wouldn't show. Or I could get a variety of expensive human hair wigs. Following SRS I'd be faced with having to dialate to keep the vagina from growing shut. Then there is a second surgery depending on which SRS surgeon you go to. Some surgeons don't do the labia minora during the initial surgery. Then if I had needed breast implants I'd be faced with the prospect of possibly having to have them changed every ten years (something they don't tell you about up front) Eventually I decided that being a full-time woman would be more than I wanted to deal with and took a pass on it. I have completed all of the steps, counseling, letters of recommendation, some FFS, electrolysis, HRT, an orchiectomy, even a SRS pre-surgery meeting with Dr. Bowers several years ago. I live in Washington state and could get gender markers changed easily at this point but decided that it too was too much trouble. I'm quite happy just being me, My marriage and family is still intact and I have grown content with where I am at this point. I'm glad that I stepped back and counted the cost!
Ativan
My endo has been very receptive to working with me to get the right E and spiro combination. Started on normal hrt dosage for mtf transition. Loved the emotional effects and loss of dysphoria but uncomfortable with rapid physical changes. Reduced the E and rate of change decreased. Then found my head was too fuzzy and found that I was not thinking as clearly as I like - almost fuzzy. Reduced the spiro and all good but slight hair growth of concern so flexed the dosage. Am now in a very good place but ironically wish to refine my neck due to some FFS scars/lumps which I wish to remove.
Am also contemplating removal of both breasts as they feel like an anomaly given I no longer feel the need to transition. Quite a journey so far but the low dose hrt has really given me control and comfort. It has worked for this MTA!
Just wanted to say I relate but in the other way. I started thinking I was really androgyne and that any thoughts about being male were because I was clearly female bodied. Now I wonder about all that. The more male I am going the more happy I am (mostly presentation and watching male mannerisms and so on). I have been thinking of low dose T. I haven't made any decisions. There are with all hormones both reversible and irreversible effects. You have to think how you would react if the things you don't like so well (and there will be those) are not reversible.
--Jay Jay
I miss you Shantel.
Quote from: Jamie D on August 07, 2012, 01:19:04 AM
I miss you Shantel.
As do I.
There are others out there, for myself, also.
I know why some are gone, and I worry about them at times.
If things had only been more accepted in some situations...
Had they had been able to find or stay on their paths, they might still be around.
For some it was just time to move on to other forests.
Maybe they define that differently, I haven't asked, there hasn't been a need to.
For some, it was the difficulties in being able to express or explore their thoughts.
Some things have changed
, while others are still in a process of sorts.Maybe they'll be back, but I know why some may not.
Acceptance is a hard thing to come by, sometimes.
Accepting some things as they are, can also be difficult.
I try to keep an open mind about it all, as I hope others will too, it's difficult.
It's difficult to find the trust and comfort that one needs, at times.
Sometimes you just have to find that in other ways.
Being non-binary isn't as accepted in the Trans* world as much as we could be.
Sometimes we are blamed for others ill perceived inability to be accepted in the cis-binary world.
Others may not know or even care if we have a Chick-fil-a, or not.
The more we stay quiet and remain invisible to the world, the happier they seem to be.
Ativan
Quote from: Melanie Anne on March 17, 2012, 10:17:34 AM
I already feel like some change has happened within me - I'm able to open up more and be myself more where before I always repressed saying things or acting a certain way. Now I'm just being who I'm comfortable being (which is hard since I've been repressing things for so long I'm having to rediscover who I really am). I'm really getting excited now and less stressed because the time is coming that I'll be able to do something about this. I have an appointment with a therapist next weekend so I'll finally be able to talk these things through with a professional. Wish me luck and I'll post updates if anyone's interested!
Please keep us updated. I too am in a similar situation as you. 3 months ago i realized i was Androgyne and said " I dont want to dress, use makeup ect and now i do and like it. Now im also considering HRT. I had a temporary condition that caused me to make estrol and i felt the cool, calm, happy feelings along with a sense of relief, like i was were i should be and i relay liked it.
I dont want to close the libido dept either but then again having been on T i wouldn't mind not wrestling with my pillow all night
I missed you. But kept on track with my HRT and now I am more than a year and a half on it, only stopped for travelling. Also decided to get formal medical counseling. Sorry if I disappeared, even didn't connect to the IRC channel, but work has been hard on me and I am just thinking about life. Finally told some close friends who, most of them, expected something like that.
Felt like most of you. More emotional (but didn't become quite easy to cry), began having somewhat more fear in the streets. Orgasms are waaay different.
Physically, lost weight, waist became thinner (yay!), hips kept the same (already had become bigger before), neck and shoulders softened, hands became somewhat feminine (bones more apparent, nails changed), muscles everywhere lessened, hair became softer, hairline receded, etc.
And I still feel that both masculine and feminine parts are present, albeit more in an androgynous way.
But I am not certain of coming out, as the forest is cozy. And there's not exactly an urge of doing so, even having changed my wardrobe a lot (more feminine/androgynous clothes than before). Do you think one can really just stay in the forest?
'Do you think one can really just stay in the forest?'
I hope so.
Ativan
Quote from: Jamie D on August 07, 2012, 01:19:04 AM
I miss you Shantel.
Bless you Jamie D and Ativan, you're sweet kids! I can say that because I'm older than dirt! I missed everyone here too, that and the ever present GID issues brought me back! :)
Quote from: soulfairer on September 01, 2012, 03:49:12 AM
I missed you. I am not certain of coming out, as the forest is cozy. And there's not exactly an urge of doing so, even having changed my wardrobe a lot (more feminine/androgynous clothes than before). Do you think one can really just stay in the forest?
Missed you too!
Staying in the forest is cozy but not an option. Animals do that because they fear man, but you can't afford to remain fearful because fear is the enemy of your own self esteem, social growth and development throughout this secondary puberty you're experiencing. You'll get clocked at times along with the occasional stares as if you are some kind of anomaly. So what? Deal with it and be who you want to be. I present androgene, typically in tight clingy T-shirt or one of Victoria Secret's fabulous tops, soft cup racerback bra because I have real boobs, baseball cap and skinny jeans. I went through all of that just the same, now it has diminished considerably because I exude personal confidence and poise in public. And the few dorks that want to stare get asked in a loud tone of voice, "What are you looking at?" Invariably they always become embarrassed at my reaction and become fearful that others will know that they were staring at me instead of the nice looking woman next to me and scurry away. It's a psychological method of turning the tables. Come out of the forest, you can handle it.
It took awhile, to understand the beauty, of just letting go.
Simple line from a simple song.
But when I sing it myself, when I sing it about me, to myself, it's taken on a different meaning.
"Let Him Fly"
Ain't no talkin to this man
Ain't no pretty other side
Ain't no way to understand the stupid words of pride
It would take an acrobat, and I already tried all that so
I'm gonna let him fly
Things can move at such a pace
The second hand just waved goodbye
You know the light has left his face
But you can't recall just where or why
So there was really nothing to it
I just went and cut right through it
I said I'm gonna let him fly
There's no mercy in a live wire
No rest at all in freedom
Of the choices we are given
It's no choice at all
The proof is in the fire
You touch before it moves away
But you must always know how long to stay and when to go
And there ain't no talkin to this man
He's been tryin to tell me so
It took awhile to understand the beauty of just letting go
Cause it would take an acrobat, I already tried all that
So, I'm gonna let him fly
I'm gonna let him fly
I'm gonna let him fly
The forest will always feel like home...
Ativan
Wait a minute, is all this coming out stuff about coming out of the forest, or coming out of the closet?
I like the forest.
Perhaps the forest will be home for me as well. The more i search my self the more i feel i don't need to present as a woman.But i want to celebrate the feminine within.
I don't have the typical dysphoria a M2F has. I like my male musculature and feminine features But want the emotional stability i briefly enjoyed with elevated E levels.
Since some androgynes never fully transition we need a place to call home.
Quote from: BlueSloth on September 02, 2012, 03:49:01 AM
Wait a minute, is all this coming out stuff about coming out of the forest, or coming out of the closet?
I like the forest.
The forest became home. It was a way of 'coming out of the closet'.
It's still home, wouldn't trade it for anything.
As things change, for myself, as society changes, it serves no useful purpose to hide away here.
If ever we are going to be accepted as legitimate Trans* people in our own right, we need to be visible.
This may just be a personal thing, to maintain ourselves as visible, for each of us.
It may be becoming more visible in our communities, the world.
It's not for everyone to just walk out and proclaim that I am Trans*.
But hiding away in the safety of the forest may not be all that beneficial in the long run for some of us.
We can, of course, never be seen by anyone but maybe some of the other forest dwellers. No problem there.
It's up to each of us, on our own terms, to define just how visible we are in real life.
It would be a more perfect world if we didn't have to worry or care what others may think.
But that's never the perfect world for anyone.
In some ways, we will never be able to function in a truly 'stealth' mode.
I think for some Trans* people, life would be more accepting if those who chose stealth, hadn't.
It's not hard to understand why they have. Life goes on, just as it should.
Cis* people would have a much better understanding that it is not just a 'man in a dress', as it were.
The same thing applies to us, but because we are fundamentally different as Trans*, stealth is not defined as such.
For sure, the stereotypes applies to varying degrees, as it does for everyone.
But we have, in a lot of cases, the ability to be running in a semi-stealth kind of mode.
Cis people aren't as likely to be finger pointing and commenting on what they don't understand.
We can, a lot of the time, be seen as just effeminate males or tomboys.
Society gives us more leeway. They haven't a clue that 'unicorns' do actually exist.
They get the androgynous presentation, they don't understand Androgyn, or being non-binary.
Coming out of the forest is a function of telling society that we are real.
The fashion industry is a good example and it is making us more visible, and more acceptable.
We have a long ways to go. Bigots of the world have united behind the religious right.
There comes a time for some of us to shed the effeminate male or tomboy look for who we are.
To stand up and be counted as just another person. To be judged as people, not some aberration.
For sure, people are judged by their looks all the time.
Different people appeal to others in different ways. Or don't appeal in their appearance.
But it is rare that a person would be considered to not be a person just by presentation alone.
Bigots rely on misguided moral bearings to justify their viewpoints, their fears, that they try to force on society.
They will always be around, being bigots about this or that. Some of us do the very same thing.
We are becoming more accepted all the time, by a growing majority of people.
It's getting to be acceptable to be able to leave the forest when we want, to not have to hide.
Many Trans* people have been hiding out of fear. We have less to fear than ever before.
That's not to say that there isn't still reasons to live in some kind of fear, there's just less of it.
Maybe it's not so much coming out of the closet as it is leaving the door open.
Maybe it's not so much leaving the forest as it is inviting people to visit.
I prefer the latter, to be honest. I'm still not ready to just walk out into the world.
But I am more than willing to show anyone around the many paths that are a part of the forest.
It's a fine place to be for those of us who so choose.
Visitors can learn it is a home for many people. Who are not unlike themselves.
There are going to be some who will come out of their closets and choose to stay.
Becoming more visible is a win situation.
You become more acceptable of yourself.
It helps to dispel the fears that aren't justifiable, even when some will still be.
Others are more willing to accept you.
It helps to dispel that myth of 'a man in a dress' stereotype.
(Regardless of those bigots within the Trans* world who would place that blame on us because the fashion world accepts us.)
(It is unfortunate that some will find anything to force their personal viewpoints, their fears, onto others)
It is helping the Cis people to understand, and as they understand it more, the more acceptable we all become.
By being more visible, we help other Trans* people, which in turn helps us, greatly.
We all have this opportunity to make life better for everyone, with less bigotry in the world.
We can take it and run.
We can just do what we feel comfortable in doing to help that.
We don't have to do anything.
We have a choice, and whatever that choice is, it will be right for you to make it.
I have chosen to move forward, one step at a time. With less fear than I had before.
I might not be leaving the forest, but I am willing to step out of it when it suites me.
I am not alone. None of us are. Not anymore.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 02, 2012, 11:38:49 AM
I have chosen to move forward, one step at a time. With less fear than I had before.
I might not be leaving the forest, but I am willing to step out of it when it suites me.
I am not alone. None of us are. Not anymore.
Ativan
Amen to that!
Mixing up metaphors must be contagious. Now Ativan's doing it too. I'm all for mixing metaphors, but not mixing them up.
I still like the forest, and I don't plan to leave. :)
It's dark and stuffy in the closet and I'm tired of it, but when I tried to open the door I realized that maybe spending decades nailing it shut to protect myself wasn't such a good idea. This is gonna be hard :'(
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 02, 2012, 11:38:49 AM
In some ways, we will never be able to function in a truly 'stealth' mode.
It'd be nice if I could look intersex, and look like I was born that way. Technically that'd be stealth, but I wouldn't be what people expect to see, and that would kinda defeat the purpose of stealth, so... yeah.
Oh well, at least
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 02, 2012, 11:38:49 AM
I am not alone. None of us are. Not anymore.
:) Yay! *hugs everybody* Hard to remember that when I'm out in the big scary world by myself, though.
Quote from: BlueSloth on September 04, 2012, 04:56:57 AM
Mixing up metaphors must be contagious. Now Ativan's doing it too. I'm all for mixing metaphors, but not mixing them up.
I still like the forest, and I don't plan to leave. :)
It's dark and stuffy in the closet and I'm tired of it, but when I tried to open the door I realized that maybe spending decades nailing it shut to protect myself wasn't such a good idea.
The closet: http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/dvd/disney/LWW/LWW4.jpg (http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/dvd/disney/LWW/LWW4.jpg)
The forest: http://images1.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Narnia-Map-the-chronicles-of-narnia-1162509_1920_1448.jpg (http://images1.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Narnia-Map-the-chronicles-of-narnia-1162509_1920_1448.jpg)
Leaving the door nailed shut: http://static.thecia.com.au/reviews/c/chronicles-of-narnia-the-lion-the-witch-and-the-wardrobe-11.jpg (http://static.thecia.com.au/reviews/c/chronicles-of-narnia-the-lion-the-witch-and-the-wardrobe-11.jpg)
We are not alone: http://screencrave.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/narniacast.jpg (http://screencrave.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/narniacast.jpg)
Sometimes I hide: http://www.coverdude.com/covers/david-arnold-the-chronicles-of-narnia-the-v-inside-cover-64463.jpg (http://www.coverdude.com/covers/david-arnold-the-chronicles-of-narnia-the-v-inside-cover-64463.jpg)
Because days can be like this: http://www.talkmovie.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/The-Chronicles-of-Narnia-Prince-Caspian5.jpg (http://www.talkmovie.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/The-Chronicles-of-Narnia-Prince-Caspian5.jpg)
But It can be like this: http://i2.listal.com/image/305869/600full-the-chronicles-of-narnia%253A-prince-caspian-photo.jpg (http://i2.listal.com/image/305869/600full-the-chronicles-of-narnia%253A-prince-caspian-photo.jpg)
In the end: http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30000000/Susan-Wallpaper-the-chronicles-of-narnia-30051499-1280-800.png (http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30000000/Susan-Wallpaper-the-chronicles-of-narnia-30051499-1280-800.png)
The forest becomes a part of you, you become a part of a bigger story.
Maybe being in the closet is a way of finding the forest.
Meanwhile,: http://images.zap2it.com/images/movie-90695/the-chronicles-of-narnia-the-lion-the-witch-and-the-wardrobe-0.jpg (http://images.zap2it.com/images/movie-90695/the-chronicles-of-narnia-the-lion-the-witch-and-the-wardrobe-0.jpg)
It's all merely perception
Ativan
Quote from: Melanie Anne on March 01, 2012, 12:28:34 PM
Ok, so with introductions out of the way, I would like to ask some questions to the members of this community. Perhaps I should wait a little longer before posting my own topic, but these questions have been on my mind for months.
I consider myself an androgyne and do not desire to completely transition. I am a biological male who identifies more with the female gender but do not want to completely abandon my male side. As such, I want to add some "femaleness" to both my mind and body.
So, my questions are concerning HRT. My hopes at this point are to begin a low-level (not full transitional level) regimen of HRT after meeting with a gender therapist. Seeing as how I have no particular aversion to my genitalia and my wife and I have a great sex life, would I be able to maintain use of my penis while on HRT? Has anyone gone down this road before? Also, my wife and I are considering another child which we would hope to accomplish prior to beginning HRT - but would a low dose mean certain sterility? If we manage to get pregnant before HRT, I would consider this more of a bonus than anything, but does that mean my wife wouldn't need to be on the pill anymore or should we still be concerned about accidental pregnancies?
My next question concerns breast growth. I've seen a lot of personal accounts from people that are a year or less into HRT and I know development doesn't stop at that point. I plan on continuing to work in male mode and I'm concerned that if I end up with a C-cup, that could be a little tricky. If I take genetics into account, my mother's side has women who are all a little larger overall and so naturally have larger breasts. My father's side has woman that are more my size overall (I'm skinny) and are pretty small breasted. I think that means I can expect to be smaller, but I would just like to hear what other people's experiences are. Maybe even some biological females could chime in to help me overcome my fears by telling me how they hide theirs.
Last question (sorry for another long post). What effects of HRT were noticed first? I think this is going to be a very subjective question but I am more interested in psychological changes and view the physical changes as a bonus. Did you start to feel different inside before noticing any physical effects? How would you describe those feelings? I think I've read where some people know right away that HRT is not right for them while others know right away that it absolutely is right for them. I've also read about people feeling a sense of calm, a more even tempered personality and just an overall better outlook on life. Is this how you would describe your experiences?
Sorry, I'm going to throw one more question out there. Discovering that I am an androgyne has already given me a lot of comfort, but I feel the need to actually "do" something about it. Just knowing in my mind isn't enough. If HRT isn't right for me, what kind of changes have you made in your lives to feel more congruent with what's in your mind?
Thank you all again for providing such a caring, open place with lots of knowledge to share.
Seems like we are on the same track. I too want low dose to hopefully give me emotional stability. It may take me in the other direction. Since im also skinny i wouldn't mind feminizing vs being a "girly man".
I don't mind breasts but don't want to HAVE TO wear a bra.
But with my research so far unless you start HRT very early you don't get much more than A cup or less.
What if we took testosterone and estrogen together?
Maybe some of our F2M brothers could chime in...
Also wondering if i decide to pull out if i can get libido back?
Before my whoop de doo with T, my libido was on a scale of 1-10,
about a 3.
T combined with a alcohol due to my former heavy drinking saw libido go to a 1 as my liver wasnt breaking down estrogen. I felt wonderful but confused why i was feeling feminine.
Omit heavy drinking and feminine n feelings fade aggression returns and libido is a 2.
Stopped taking T entirely for a month. Now fighting depression and generally feel dull but libido is up to a good 6. WTF... ???
I'm going to stay clear and get a baseline from a endo in november and start on LD E for 6 mo or so and see where i will go from there.
I really should just ask the mods for a blog so I can just blog my experiences.
I'm almost at 6 months on low dose HRT. I'm on estradiol valerate and spironolactone, and the dosage is roughly about 1/3 to 1/2 of a full transition dose.
My personal experiences regarding the questions asked (YMMV of couse):
1. Would I be able to maintain use of my penis?
For me the answer is yes. Production is way down though, so if you're thinking about having more children, either have the child before starting or consider sperm banking. The reduction occurred within 2 weeks of starting spiro (week 7-8). Even so, I would advise against not taking any precautions against pregnancy as sterility is not a sure thing on low dose.
2. What breast growth has occurred?
There is peaking/slight perkiness around the areola and my nipples have enlarged just a fraction (4mm diameter). Both areola and nipples are more temperature sensitive, and are tender. Slight knots forming behind, so something is happening there, albeit slowly. Basically there's nothing really to hide at this stage as what's there can pass off as an older man's man boobs for now.
3. What psychological changes have occurred?
For me, I feel more comfortable with myself. There's been a partial reconnection with my emotions - I won't cry at the drop of a hat, but most certainly, I feel more emotionally involved with things now. Workwise I actually seem to be more efficient for some strange reason.
Physical effects: some slight facial softening, skin changes, some slight fat redistribution (it's just going everywhere now rather than to the belly only), and some loss of strength/endurance. Nothing overly major, but enough subtle changes to make me feel more comfortable in my own skin so to speak.
4. What alternatives to HRT do I have?
Before I started HRT, I had full facial electrolysis. That helped, but as my hairline began to recede, the dysphoria came back worse. Perhaps a DHT blocker may be enough if that's the main thing worrying you. Shifting the wardrobe to the androgynous side of things may be a possibility as well.
Luna nyan
I am on roughly similar dosages and have, with my endo, been trying to get the balance right to keep my head in a good space. The intent is definitely low dose hrt at this point and the focus is psychological benefit rather than physical change
1. Yes it works - slower to arouse and less fluid. The experience is less localised and spreads throughout my body - a whole of body orgasm
2. Breasts responded quickly - too quickly for me. Sore and noticeably enlarged, puffy, sore, enlarged disc and sometimes a clear discharge. However I have a big frame so although close to an A they would not be seen as very different to moons. Much more sensitive and they love to be caressed.
3. Psychological changes. This is the big one. From various dosages - spiro at 1/2 the transition dose makes me a little woolly headed. I don't concentrate as well and I don't make decisions as rapidly as I am used to. But the raging need to cross dress goes away leaving me confused - should I stay here or move elsewhere (in the forest or to transition)? E at 1/2 dose gives me complete peace, richer emotion and makes me more fully sensate. Between the spiro and the E (at varying dosages but never more than 1/2 the transition dose, I am gaining fat in the hips, upper thighs and lower abdomen. Definitely losing some strength. Surprisingly while I see the changes none seem to have been noticeable to others - perhaps the earlier shock of full FFS has blinded them to the more subtle changes that occurring
4. Although there have been periodic halts to check my sanity, my relationship and my progress - I have found that commitment to electrolysis, laser hair removal, taking care of my skin, nails, changing my presentation etc while they do help with my gid they are not enough for me. I stop hrt and it seems like it will be enough but it never is and I recommence. I now know that if I want to be in a good place then low dose hrt does work for me.
I would like to know my destination - full mtf transition, mta or else a revolving door or continual change It does cause disquiet for me and I am concerned for others and how it will impact them and how I will be interpreted But the changes are gradual, I am alive and while I am I cant but seek to explore the forest and my path through and within it. Perhaps it is the journey and not the destination - life and gender isnt binary so why should decisions be binary. Provided my endo doesnt think I am causing physical or physochological issues for myself I will continue to adjust dosages, seek new winds, clement weather, new paths and a good way forward.
A few years ago I would have thought that I am one very confused person but now I accept that at this point in time this is the place I am meant to be.
It seems that it has always been about the journey, regardless of any destination.
This has pretty much held true with most things in life for me, though.
I have missed my destination more than once because the journey becomes more important.
While having a destination in mind gives one direction, in the end, it is the journey.
My life has rarely been very static at any given time.
I think it is just the way I live, and have lived.
The fluidity of life is fun, given that one never really has to go with the current, if they so choose.
It's about the choices we face, and I was never one to choose to stay anywhere for very long.
I will know my destination soon enough, when I die.
That will be the destination I have always been drawn to.
Not that I have been in a hurry, at least not always.
Seems that we are always planning our escapes one way or another.
Yep, it's the journey that makes for the best memories for me, not so much the destination.
That's just the end of another story.
This whole gender thing in my life has dictated some awesome journey's into the unknown, at least for me.
I plan on keeping it that way. There is always a bit of sadness in getting to any destination for me.
But there is always that notion that another journey will be starting again.
It pleases me to know that. It is about the journey, make no mistake.
Even if you have a definite destination in mind, the place you want to be in life.
It's about how and what you need to do to get there.
For me, I like the adventure that comes along with that.
Babbling, again...
Ativan
Ativan
Your response is nothing like babble. It resonates with my experience although I have not had the words or level of enquiry that you have evidently made to express just where I am and where I will be. The journey is more important than the destination - something which a target driven slightly obsessive mta took a while to understand.
Slight digression but perhaps thinking as a particle with definite coordinates in time and space on a binary continuum is completely wrong and the limitations of this paradigm become clearer when one thinks of oneself as a vibration, a wave seeking to resonate in line with its core or underlying structure. This helps me accept that my self/being/nature/structure requires the hrt to vibrate authentically and in alignment with the universe and my place/path in it. Now this sounds like babble!
Your posting is perhaps the most articulate expression I have read of what I am experiencing. I am glad that I am not alone in this experience. Fortunately my endo is right onboard and without a definite destination the pressure is off and between us we can find the right hrt dosage. At the moment it seems that i can't get it all i.e. feeling calm, warm and sensate while my body ever so slowly feminizes (the right amount of E) without the ever present and growing stress of GID without either continued hair growth (not enough T) or fluffy thinking/indecision (too much T). Perhaps I am hoping for too much or denying that I do have a binary destination but my sense and honest assessment today is that I am travelling through this forest for the foreseeable future
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 01, 2012, 08:58:57 AM
'Do you think one can really just stay in the forest?'
I hope so.
Ativan
I also do so (even though I questioned that) :)
Quote from: Shantel on September 01, 2012, 10:27:27 AM
Missed you too!
Staying in the forest is cozy but not an option. Animals do that because they fear man, but you can't afford to remain fearful because fear is the enemy of your own self esteem, social growth and development throughout this secondary puberty you're experiencing. You'll get clocked at times along with the occasional stares as if you are some kind of anomaly. So what? Deal with it and be who you want to be. I present androgene, typically in tight clingy T-shirt or one of Victoria Secret's fabulous tops, soft cup racerback bra because I have real boobs, baseball cap and skinny jeans. I went through all of that just the same, now it has diminished considerably because I exude personal confidence and poise in public. And the few dorks that want to stare get asked in a loud tone of voice, "What are you looking at?" Invariably they always become embarrassed at my reaction and become fearful that others will know that they were staring at me instead of the nice looking woman next to me and scurry away. It's a psychological method of turning the tables. Come out of the forest, you can handle it.
I am already clocked at times. Before HRT, some people thought I was gay. Then, now, some people just stare and think (then that's the moment I run). I just may gather courage, because I identify more as an "MtFtA" identity than an "MtA" one. It just is somewhat difficult to turn the table (but when it happens, I am certain that it does at once).
Also, some more feminine (though not exclusively feminine yet) clothes today just seem more of a fit... Ahhh, time, sometimes I just wanted to go fastforward a bit :) (but I shouldn't, I know).
Congrats! Maybe I sometime post the same here...
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 02, 2012, 11:38:49 AM
Maybe it's not so much coming out of the closet as it is leaving the door open.
Maybe it's not so much leaving the forest as it is inviting people to visit.
(...)
I have chosen to move forward, one step at a time. With less fear than I had before.
I might not be leaving the forest, but I am willing to step out of it when it suites me.
I am not alone. None of us are. Not anymore.
I wrote about androgynes and fashion in some way. We are way more people than we think of. Though it is generally difficult to find out that there is the middle term.
We think twice, thrice, and when beginning one just wonders if he/she can be she/he. We should also use our experience to tell the world there is something somewhat between.
As we are betweeners, we can swing to one, other or both directions, towards masculine or feminine.
Usually we thought more about many questions in life than most because there isn't really an answer for everything.
I'm also going elsewhere, also one step at a time.
Though we aren't going anywhere, we hover between many, many shades of what one calls identity or expression.
Alas, we also express a lot. Androgynes are probably the most expressive ones.
We can use all that for we are some who can really be on many, many peoples' shoes.
Let us also use that, being on other peoples' shoes.
Maybe we never ever leave the forest, but let us invite our friends to come in and see...
Shantel, nice to see you back here! I resonate with what you said about being yourself in the world with confidence. Having a positive attitude as we walk through the world as ourselves really works! People feel that sense of self that we project, and I find they respond favorably, for the most part.
re, staying in or leaving the forest. I love the forest, but I also love the beach, the mountains, the desert, etc. I visit all worlds, and enjoy my interactions in each of them. I mean this both metaphorically and literally.
Since this past winter, I've made significant steps towards living in full truth of who I am. For many years it was OK for me to simply be androgyne internally, regardless of external presentation, now I am at a point in my life where I can't hide. Throughout the spring and summer, I've come out gradually to friends and in my work. As of the beginning of September, I'm now living as Z full time, 24/7. It is truly amazing, and I'm feeling happier. Earlier this week, I changed my name and profile picture on facebook, thereby outing myself to many people with one little press of a computer key.
I am beyond identifying as anything at all. I don't know if I'm androgyne, MTF, TS, TG, TV, genderqueer, genderfluid, etc... I don't really care what label I'm considered, as long as it doesn't use male pronouns, mister or sir.
Re HRT, I'm still on the fence about it. For now, social transition, I will stay with this for a while to see if that's enough, or whether I'll also need medical/physical transition. Only time will tell.
Z
Dalebert made the comment on another thread that we are indeed going through a "Shift" on this planet. The various expressions in gender ID is certainly evidence of that. We all are drawn to the frontier of what may be the next evolutionary phase in humanity. I had not been aware of it during my youth, and was resistant later as a result of my Judeo-Christian background until I could no longer resist the pull of the forces that has brought me to where I am now. Zythyra, your comments at the bottom of your posts fit perfectly! Let me add yet another concept. "There is no such thing as can't." This was once screamed in my face by an Army NCO, I internalized it and it has served me well over the years to make my possibilities become a reality. I encourage others to consider deleting the word "can't" from their thought process entirely. Can't is simply translated to won't, it is used as a result of fearful apprehension, the tether that keeps those with GID from self actualization and soaring with eagles.
Quote from: Shantel on September 15, 2012, 10:16:43 AM
"There is no such thing as can't."
I agree... The same with the word, try
My favorite saying
"Do, or do not. There is no try."
(https://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0CX84xI7Ieu5E2WJra_ctBsRa1i9Bc-orbe3bNjJU0n2d_8FLBmlBNQ)
Quote from: Shantel on September 15, 2012, 10:16:43 AM
We all are drawn to the frontier of what may be the next evolutionary phase in humanity.
I encourage others to consider deleting the word "can't" from their thought process entirely. Can't is simply translated to won't, it is used as a result of fearful apprehension, the tether that keeps those with GID from self actualization and soaring with eagles.
Can't which does, in many cases, for various reasons, does turn into won't, which is where GID comes from. I allowed the GID to make my life miserable to a point of several suicide attempts, one of the very few things I have failed at in life.
It was the failure of these attempts, because I did do what was surely the right things to end my life, I just did them half-heartedly. Which I suppose is par for what I was going through.
I didn't want to move forward, I couldn't just go back, I had nowhere left to run. So I just hid out in a psychological nightmare.
With enough therapy, that allowed me to admit why I had done so many things that came so close to killing me in growing up, I came to realize that a lot of it was the direct result of letting societies prejudices dictate who I was.
GID doesn't have to be for anyone of us. I can't ;) do that anymore, and I write about some of it in the hope that it will let others know they don't have to go through it, at the least, alone.
The nation, the world, is at a tipping point like it has never been before. Religous values, old values, are being rethought with a positive effect on what gender and orientation are. The old guard, the ones that I grew up with are passing the torch to a new generation that has an even more open minded generation behind them.
The elections this Nov in the USA are going to determine whether that old guard is going to adjust or get out of the way.
They may struggle with it, but they have me and others of my generation, pushing harder and harder all the time.
When I have been told that I can't or worse yet, shouldn't, it's my cue to say f*k that ->-bleeped-<-, I'm going to and there is little that will change my mind about it.
Can't is an awfully bad excuse used to keep someone in line with a perception of the world as they see it.
Won't is a result of that, of accepting that perception. I won't accept it, never have. I can't. I proved it to even myself.
Our time is coming, it's coming pretty fast, considering where we have all come from.
I'm not even going to consider putting on the safety's, I don't like having a net. If I fall, I will live, as I aways seem to do.
If any of you find that that rings true to your own nature, it is with reason.
It is time. Not only for you, but for those who will be going through the same as we did.
I just want it to be easier for their sake. They have more important contributions to make in life.
Can't and won't are the struggle I and my generation have had to deal with. Let's not pass that on.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 15, 2012, 11:58:27 AM
Can't and won't are the struggle I and my generation have had to deal with. Let's not pass that on.
Ativan
Amen to another exceptional Ativan post!
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 15, 2012, 11:58:27 AM
Our time is coming, it's coming pretty fast, considering where we have all come from.
Our time is now!
I've asked myself a question a lot over the past few months, if not now, when? At 56, I'm not getting any younger. For me, the answer has to be now.
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on September 15, 2012, 01:43:39 PM
Our time is now!
I've asked myself a question a lot over the past few months, if not now, when? At 56, I'm not getting any younger. For me, the answer has to be now.
Z
And so is mine! I am "just" 32, but I already realized time doesn't rewind (at least in this sense). Now is the answer and the means!
I'm 60 (that is still so weird to say). But I'm going on 32. I haven't the slightest idea how time has moved along to actually be this age. But I never thought, as many did, that I wouldn't see 30, so going on 32 is an accomplishment in itself.
Time is a very weird perception to me. I really don't have the ability to form a time line without some difficulty.
I don't know if something that happened yesterday, was at a different time than something that happened a year ago.
I have to really stop and think and even ask or look things up to find out, sometimes.
So, anyways, 60 is irrelevant to me. I am going on 32 and that's all there is to that. ;)
Now is as good a time as any, for me. But then so is tomorrow or yesterday.
Things are happening. They will happen in their own time. But it will be someone who is doing that.
I am not alone in doing what I can to help. That's the best part of it all.
We are finding our voice, and the numbers are growing. It's exciting, for me.
What a long, strange trip it's been (Thanks Jerry for putting that seed of thought in my head so many years ago).
Sometimes the lights all shinin on me;
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip its been.
Grateful Dead - Truckin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafY6sZt0FE#)
Truckin',
Ativan
Oh Cripes, you're all just babies! I'll be seventy next year, young at heart, physically fit and the only medications I have to take is estrogen. Most of my CIS female friends are in their 30's as is my own mindset. It's all in one's self perspectives!
Quote from: soulfairer on September 15, 2012, 06:43:25 PM
And so is mine! I am "just" 32, but I already realized time doesn't rewind (at least in this sense). Now is the answer and the means!
True, there's no rewind button!
Z
It's all in one's self perspectives!
Indeed, it is. I have two friends around my age, they look and act much younger.
It's because they view the world with younger eyes, think younger.
We each look at each other when someone brings up our age.
Then laugh to ourselves, knowing it isn't really reality as we see it.
Ativan
Quote from: Zythyra on September 15, 2012, 10:01:39 PM
True, there's no rewind button!
Z
Yes! And some folks insist: "but you're so young, and you look so younger!" - but still, we don't have time because it only passes once.
The problem with all that? I learnt not to go with the flow, because we always can do more.
Hope I don't hit a big, huge and rocky wall!
(probably we will hit it, as it is "fate", but I hope to be able to climb it)
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on September 15, 2012, 08:30:55 PM
I'm 60 (that is still so weird to say). But I'm going on 32. I haven't the slightest idea how time has moved along to actually be this age. But I never thought, as many did, that I wouldn't see 30, so going on 32 is an accomplishment in itself.
51 going on 28. After last night's support group i went out with a group half my age and fit right in. Except when i commented "I was there when Aerosmith first came on the seen". The conversation stopped for a moment.
Quote from: Joann on September 16, 2012, 11:44:05 AM
51 going on 28. After last night's support group i went out with a group half my age and fit right in. Except when i commented "I was there when Aerosmith first came on the seen". The conversation stopped for a moment.
Sounds like a bit of my experience. LOL! :) I am officially the oldest guy in the group.
--Jay Jay
I'm 27 going on 40. Looks like a very long road ahead for me no matter which direction I go. A little daunting actually...
This thread is such a great resource, thank you everyone! I'm considering low dose for at least a 3-5 year period maybe starting as early as this coming spring, probably waiting for a full transition for the full 5 years due to career, family and community related concerns. I'm pretty sure I'm mtf but would like the inward expression corrected with physical changes that can be minimized or hidden from others. Plausible deniability is my phrase of choice with the outside world. Maybe I'm cowardly, but I just am not ready for a social transition even though I am out at home with a supporting partner and age appropriate disclosure to our young kids. In my situation it just seems reckless an irresponsible to move any quicker... :(
Quote from: aleon515 on September 16, 2012, 03:16:09 PM
Sounds like a bit of my experience. LOL! :) I am officially the oldest guy in the group.
--Jay Jay
I dunno Jay Jay, being androgyne I respond to either he or she and since I'll be 70 in actual years on the big rock next August and want to keep my crown as the eldest one in the group, no usurping honors allowed! However mentally, emotionally and for the most part physically I'm in my mid-thirties.
Quote from: ashley_thomas on December 21, 2012, 08:02:51 AM
This thread is such a great resource, thank you everyone! I'm considering low dose for at least a 3-5 year period maybe starting as early as this coming spring, probably waiting for a full transition for the full 5 years due to career, family and community related concerns. I'm pretty sure I'm mtf but would like the inward expression corrected with physical changes that can be minimized or hidden from others. Plausible deniability is my phrase of choice with the outside world. Maybe I'm cowardly, but I just am not ready for a social transition even though I am out at home with a supporting partner and age appropriate disclosure to our young kids. In my situation it just seems reckless an irresponsible to move any quicker... :(
It's a rather selfless and responsible plan that many here can completely relate to, good for you Ashley!
i'm a 26 male and i consider myself an androgyne, i go between the genders often but i want to go one way specifically as being 'feminine'
now i have not gone to a doctor yet, but i want to try low dose hrt, in fact i started mine own with information i got from the net, i'm using the classic low t blocker pill and phytoestrogen pills which are extremely weak, considering now to switch them to conjugated estrogens or a strong form of estradiol like estrace
what do you guys think?
by the way i don't really mind if i grow small boobs
Quote from: StarPixie on January 02, 2013, 03:51:53 PM
what do you guys think?
From TOS:
8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctors supervision is prohibited.
C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.
We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision. Please make an appointment with a physician or gender clinic, and be safe!
Z
Quote from: Zythyra on January 02, 2013, 08:53:12 PM
From TOS:
8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctors supervision is prohibited.
C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.
We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.
Please make an appointment with a physician or gender clinic, and be safe!
Z
I second that. StarPixie, you asked me in my personal blog, but the fact is that self-done HRT is dangerous and you should know that it carries risks - if you ever ever do that, please research a lot and know there are risks, I stress that. There are stories of people needing to never more do HRT, for they developed DVT that is a real risk (okay, it's a risk in GGs, but still).
I'll post my reply here and delete that comment, because I just don't want my blog to be flooded with questions about HRT.
"Hi! I think you need a help. If you need starting HRT, you need to research a lot, along with choosing which will be your cares. I always tell people they should go to a doc, talk about it and do all the necessary tests (free E? SBH? free T? Progesterone? a complete blood test? ALT? AST? etc) before really going into that. You should be certain about a lot of things before..."
alright you guys win, i will seek a doctor as it seems the better thing to do, but i wonder if they do encourage low dose hrt?
Quote from: StarPixie on January 02, 2013, 03:51:53 PM
i'm a 26 male and i consider myself an androgyne, i go between the genders often but i want to go one way specifically as being 'feminine'
now i have not gone to a doctor yet, but i want to try low dose hrt, in fact i started mine own with information i got from the net, i'm using the classic low t blocker pill and phytoestrogen pills which are extremely weak, considering now to switch them to conjugated estrogens or a strong form of estradiol like estrace
what do you guys think?
by the way i don't really mind if i grow small boobs
You should read the thread entitled "Extreme Danger" Where I almost killed myself doing what you're thinking about. I'm still not out of the woods, so you don't want to be another dummy either. Do it the right way under qualified medical supervision or forget it.
Quote from: StarPixie on January 03, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
alright you guys win, i will seek a doctor as it seems the better thing to do, but i wonder if they do encourage low dose hrt?
You can in MN. I had absolutely no problem. For over a year now.
If you want, maybe you could tell us were you are,
Hopefully someone here may know where you can go, or what options you have.
It is becoming very commonplace, as the number of people who are on low dose increases.
The place I go to, is more than willing to share information to Doctors, therapist, Psychiatrists, etc.
They are one of the go to places for information.
PHS UofMn. They literally helped right the book on this.
http://www.phs.umn.edu/policy/home.html (http://www.phs.umn.edu/policy/home.html)
I have worked with Dr Bockting and still work with Dr Feldman.
I'm going to see her today, in fact.
Ativan
Wow this is amazing. HI!! Anyone still out there!? I somehow lost track of this thread and to be honest, this forum in general. I found my way back here by doing a Google search and as I was reading the thread I thought "Wow, this sounds familiar". Didn't even realize I was the one who started it at first.
So update time? Still no HRT for me. I tried to "get over it" for a while. That didn't work. I tried being more feminine in dress and mannerisms. That sort of worked - until I would see myself in the mirror and either felt I was looking at a stranger when not dressed or that I looked like a freak when dressed.
I told my GP that I was trans and interested in HRT. She seemed pretty uncomfortable with the whole topic but told me she would try to find a suitable endo and give me a referral. Got that and went to my appointment with the endo. He had no clue why I was there (I kind of assumed there was some communication between GP and endo) and was completely thrown when I told him. He started asking some questions that made me feel really uncomfortable and showed me he had no idea where I was coming from. He told me he just didn't know enough to give me a script but he would research and get back to me. Well, I got a voicemail from him a few days later that was "If you want to proceed with this, I guess I can give you the prescriptions". I never called back. I want a doctor who wants to help me.
So - my wife had her first ultrasound yesterday. She's 8 weeks pregnant! So I don't have to worry about that aspect now. We still have a great sex life so I still want to try to keep "it" working. After all my research, I think if I keep using it and I want it to work, it will. Maybe nothing will come out, but who cares.
I'm still not sure about a full transition. I've dabbled with my voice but I'm too embarrassed to even practice at home. I bought a wig that I love, but can't keep the bangs out of my face. I think it just needs a trim. I'm prepared to go wherever HRT will take me. (If I'm totally honest, the only thing keeping me from a full transition is the fear of what other people will think). I got back in touch with the Mazzoni clinic who should be much more prepared to help me than the local endo and my first appointment is in two weeks.
There's my update. I can't believe this thread has grown as it has. I love how supportive you all are and can't thank you all enough for having this resource.
yo!
mazzoni's cool, they do my hrt, they're down with nonbinary people, and stuff, and informed consent is sweet and so much more convenient than having to prove to some therapist that you ain't out of your head, or something.
as far as doin' the horizontal tango on hrt, i mean, i was using it just fine on, like, astronomical doses of e, right before surgery. i feel like there's definitely a psychological component to keeping stuff working down there! gotta want it to work it, i guess?
voice practice is important! i'm trying to get my singing voice back after my trach shave went south :( but i'm working at it, and you gotta do it really frequently for it to be effective! if it makes you embarrassed to do it at home, my suggestion is to do it in the car, if you have one! even if you don't end up wanting to go for a different voice in public, it never hurts to be able to pull off whatever voice you like, and hey, singing's fun. even with my speaking voice, i never did any of these, like, voice training or voice therapy programs, i just kinda figured it out on my own because i just messed with my voice like hours a day for a while.
the one thing i will say about "full transition" re: being nonbinary and stuff is that it's sort of the sort of thing that feels terrifying to start, feels terrifying during, but when i actually finished up and ended up on the other side i forget the bad parts and it just seems laughable that i ever THOUGHT it would be so bad. in retrospect though memory is kinder, so like, if what's holding you back is fear, remember that if you can work up the courage to do it that you won't have to face the scary stuff (at least, not that specific scary stuff) when it's over, y'know?
Quote from: Melanie Anne on March 01, 2013, 11:20:12 AM
Wow this is amazing. HI!! Anyone still out there!? I somehow lost track of this thread and to be honest, this forum in general. I found my way back here by doing a Google search and as I was reading the thread I thought "Wow, this sounds familiar". Didn't even realize I was the one who started it at first....
So - my wife had her first ultrasound yesterday. She's 8 weeks pregnant! So I don't have to worry about that aspect now. We still have a great sex life so I still want to try to keep "it" working. After all my research, I think if I keep using it and I want it to work, it will. Maybe nothing will come out, but who cares....
There's my update. I can't believe this thread has grown as it has. I love how supportive you all are and can't thank you all enough for having this resource.
Congratulations on the new addition to the family Melanie.
Glad you found your way back.
Quote from: Jamie D on March 01, 2013, 04:46:41 PM
Congratulations on the new addition to the family Melanie.
Glad you found your way back.
Yeah, welcome back girl!
Quote from: riven1 on March 01, 2012, 01:32:17 PM
I am bigender, but I started out thinking that I was an androgyne (and they continue to let me hang around here LOL....). I'm also on a low dose HRT regimen. I want to share my experiences so that you know what you will be potentially be facing if you go this route.
My dysphoria in girl mode was driving me crazy - there is a member here that described it as a noise in her head that she could not escape, and i had the same noise as well as repetitive, incessant thoughts about girl stuff. It was GID, and it was driving me insane. Since i'm bigender the feelings switched on and off at random times as i flipped between boy mode and girl mode.
I felt results within 2-3 weeks of starting HRT. The noise and incessant thoughts stopped dead cold. The physical changes started within a few months, and they were the classic ones - fat redistribution, small boobs, etc. Those were the side effects i was willing to accept in order to get the sense of calmness that i was missing, and being bigender i didn't really mind them. And i am far more emotional now - for example, there are TV shows and movies that i simply can't watch without tearing up. The uncontrollable flip flopping between boy and girl mode became something that i have some control over now, which is nice.
The ability to father children - i've had mine and i'm past that now LOL..... but the equipment still works, sorta. It's hard to start and often stalls out. It's also become a zero emissions device if you follow my drift. That happened within 8 months. I have to warm it up now for quite a while before i hit the road. The feeling that i get is also the one described by many - a full on body experience and not just a localized sensation.
I've been told that HRT can either have the calming effect that it had on me, or it might be the thing that triggers a high speed toboggan ride toward transition, so that's something you might consider.
I like that you plan to talk with a therapist to help you sort this out.
Do you mean you didn't want too many physical changes, but wanted the calmness that HRT gave you? I think this would describe me (even noticing the fluctuations in my testosterone levels naturally, I almost feel better when they're lower, despite some negative side effects like headaches). The sense of peace was almost euphoric and I've not really felt it anything like it since before puberty. I'd be willing to put up with a
lot for this to be more constant. I swear the feeling almost cured about 7 years of serious depression practically in a day.
However, I'm not on HRT right now, and the ways I'd like to change my body involve more "softening" (a lot of which can be done cosmetically; luckily I'm slender to begin with) than curves per se. More classically "androgynous", if you will.
How do you find working with your physical figure when you're in "boy mode"? Are the breasts so large you need to bind them, or can they smaller buds that can be hidden easily?
Just really quickly here,...
You need to know where you are starting from. Hormone levels are not the same in everyone.
For this, you're going to have to get some blood work done. Yep, gotta see a Dr. Simple blood draw.
Your potassium levels need to be in a normal range for starters, if you are going to use T blockers.
You also need total and free Testosterone levels.
You have to be healthy to start with, after all, you're going to be changing your body chemistry around somewhat.
The effects that you are going to get are going to be different at different levels, but more to the point, YMMV.
This is important! You are not going to get a drug that is specifically designed for what you want!
You're going to be using the side effects from them. So monitoring is essential, if you want to stay healthy.
True, Low Dose HRT isn't as dangerous as Full Dose HRT, but it can mess you up if it isn't done right.
Full Dose is a commitment that requires constant attention if you want to be safe.
Same with Low Dose, even if it isn't pushing the limits so to speak.
Because everyone's needs and wants are different and everyone's reactions to different side effects is different,
You're going to have to be supervised by a Dr, preferably one who is actually concerned about possible complications.
Yep, that's right. Complications. Because they can happen.
This is one of the most dangerous things about alternative methods.
Rarely will people actually know what is really happening to their body chemistry.
And if it feels good, how many of you will be tempted to take larger doses to keep that initial good feeling going?
You will feel different in most cases, which is the point of Low Dose.
If it was just physical changes you want, you're going to be disappointed.
After some time, you will become adjusted to how you feel. Again, important.
You have to remember this is really why you are going the route of Low Dose to start with. Dysphoria.
Once you have that under control, you can even start to back down on doses if you want. I did.
Most of my dysphoria is gone, enough that I can deal with the occasional bout of it.
Almost everyone will experience some physical changes, how much depends on who you are and what you want.
It will be gradual in most cases, but not always. YMMV!
If for some reason, it isn't what you thought it would be, you can stop within a few months and things will go back to where they were when you started.
After about the same amount of time it took to get where you are.
But not always.
There isn't any tried and true methods.
There isn't any tried and true methods.
All that said, you have to really want to do this, not just try it out. Because it takes time.
And as time goes by, things are going to change and there isn't any way of knowing how it's going to affect you.
It can be the thing that kicks you into Transsexual mode, it may just freak you out if you're not ready.
Which brings up the point that a gender therapist is invaluable to helping you sort out what is going to happen.
This is not over the counter cold medicine....
It's some serious stuff, treat it that way.
Treating yourself with alternative stuff is fine if you are willing to take those kinds of risks, which is what you will be doing.
You might find someone who will tell you they know how it all works, but that's just nonsense and you will find that out.
You'll be on your own and if something goes wrong, who's gonna be there to help?
Your Dr won't be of much help, because the effects of some things are out of their base of knowledge.
Just be careful, be smart. It's fine if you keep an eye on what you're doing.
But be ready to make changes that you haven't anticipated, because they happen.
You're playing around with side effects, regardless of what you use and how much.
Some really really good things can come your way. It's why it is becoming a great alternative for non-binaries.
Like everything you do, from fitness to clothes, use moderation and move slowly and carefully, think it out.
Low Dose HRT, regardless of what path you choose, and there are many, is not the same as trying out something new.
It's going to take a commitment on your part if you want it to be safe and to get the results you're looking for.
(OK, so it wasn't that quick...)
Ativan
How many people here are using low dose HRT with expectations of physical changes?
If so, is that the main reason for taking them?
Initially, I got into low dose for the dysphoria. I'm still there, after a few changes in my dose.
At first, I was taking a larger amount than I do now, full transition level spiro.
Since it wasn't making me 'feel' any different, I went back down to a lower dose after a month off.
I wasn't ready for the physical changes that happened, which were relatively quick for me.
Now with a very low dose of spiro and very low dose E patch, I feel about right.
Some of the 'new or newer' people here have been writing about physical changes.
And the survey is a testament to that.
I'm curious as to what your HRT regime is.
We can't talk about actual doses, and we don't for good reason.
It wasn't that long ago that low dose was almost unheard of.
Some people were very opinionated about it.
But times have changed, and so has HRT.
I'm curious to know if some of you started right off at doses with the intent of physical changes.
Lots of talk about androgynous presentations past just clothes, makeup, etc.
I think it's great, I'm all for it.
I have talked about this with my Dr, and she is a little cagey about it, the YMMV thing.
But she is at ease with it, just as she is with my low dose.
It is something that I think about doing, but not enough to gather any information.
Would it be called mid dose, medium dose,...
More importantly, what kind of safety concerns are there as compared to low and high?
Options? Like how fast of changes, how much change, etc.
Pretty big area to cover, from dysphoria to full transition.
Any difficulty with Dr's? I know mine would say go for it, but she also is collecting data, so...
Do you have a clear idea as to what changes you want, using HRT?
Or is it in a range sort of thing? Have you discussed dose's with your Dr., directly relating to this?
I know I can dig up some reliable information from the center I go to from a Dr's point of view.
But I'm curious as to what everyone who is non-binary thinks about it.
To me, the possibilities are almost endless.
Ativan
I'm on the lowest dose patch of Climera and it seems to keep me perky in various places, soft skin and even a bit puffy in other places, so i'm perfectly happy after nearly killing myself on high doses of other stuff and having been on supervised doses of estrogen before that. Mentally I'm at peace with the dysphoric stuff.
I just had my intake appointment at the Mazzoni Center in Philadelphia this past week. They do lots of different dosages depending on what people are trying to achieve. I won't even say low dose, because that's just the beginning. Just like gender is a spectrum, there's a whole spectrum of ways they administer HRT. I was honest with them and told them what my goals and hopes were (with the understanding that YMMV) and they are very supportive. It's a busy clinic though and I don't go back for my medical appointment for another month, but this place sounds like they do exactly what a lot of you are looking for. If you're anywhere close to Philadelphia, I would recommend giving them a call.
For me personally - the biggest thing I'm hoping to get out of HRT is relief from the dysphoria. I've committed myself to going wherever HRT takes me, but at the moment I feel like I would be happy with the mental effects and minor physical changes that my wife and I can enjoy. If I end up really liking it and want to go further or if the changes force me to go further, I'm more than willing to do that, but my goal is to just have this as something that effects me and not everyone around me. To be honest, the only reason I'm not planning on a full transition is I just can't handle the idea of other people's reactions to the whole thing.
The physical changes I'm hoping for then would be, regrowth of head hair (finasteride with minoxidil), less oily skin and less acne, MUCH less body hair, more fat in hips and thighs and less on my tummy, and all around softer skin. I'm also hoping for a chest that can be kept hidden from most people and the ability to maintain erections (just being honest here). I shared all of this at my intake appointment, and they're confident they can help me achieve these goals as long as I understand there are no guarantees.
I'll post again after my next appointment and let you know what they put me on. I'll continue to post to let everyone know how it's effecting me once I get started.
I hope this helps other people - I felt a little bombarded by negativity when I first started talking about HRT without transitioning, but it seems like there are a lot of members who are looking to do just that.
Quote from: Melanie Anne on March 18, 2013, 11:18:51 AM
I just had my intake appointment at the Mazzoni Center in Philadelphia this past week. They do lots of different dosages depending on what people are trying to achieve.
I hope this helps other people - I felt a little bombarded by negativity when I first started talking about HRT without transitioning, but it seems like there are a lot of members who are looking to do just that.
This is what I'm talking about. Nice to know there is a place out there for you. :)
Yah, that negativity was pretty prevalent not that long ago, but I think most people get what it is, now.
It's that acceptance that is making these changes possible with HRT.
There does seem to be more and more people looking at it for their own reasons.
It's become pretty matter of fact at the center I started at a few years ago.
A world that might become as matter of fact about gender would be pretty nice, too.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on March 18, 2013, 11:44:58 AM
This is what I'm talking about. Nice to know there is a place out there for you. :)
Yah, that negativity was pretty prevalent not that long ago, but I think most people get what it is, now.
It's that acceptance that is making these changes possible with HRT.
There does seem to be more and more people looking at it for their own reasons.
It's become pretty matter of fact at the center I started at a few years ago.
A world that might become as matter of fact about gender would be pretty nice, too.
Ativan
Yup, I ran into a mountain of negativity once I made it clear that I wasn't going to go for SRS. It was anywhere from
Whaaaaat? :icon_yikes: to ridicule and outrage from the mean girls of the transgender society! Fortunately everyone grows up eventually. :laugh:
Yeah, I'm not sure what happened over the last year, I avoid other places on this forum, just because of the past.
I feel kinda bad about it, I do have other friends who are fully transitioned or are planning on it.
Just not here. But maybe I should grow up about the past, also.
I really like quite a few of the Trans* people who rarely visit the forest anymore.
Maybe they have moved on, I don't know.
I think as things stand socially and even politically, Trans* people sticking together is more important than ever.
There are some very positive responses from society as a whole, and the bigots are fading away.
It's a good time for everyone to just present as they wish, ignore the radical fringe right and just be.
The infighting kind of stuff doesn't help, I think we all have a better realization that we need to pull together.
I'm actually pretty happy with way things have been going for everyone, but especially the non-binary people.
Maybe I'll go exploring here again, someday. Like I said, there are people who I miss who are very good people.
Meanwhile, back at the secret hideout... ;D
Ativan
Quote from: Shantel on March 18, 2013, 12:12:08 PM
Yup, I ran into a mountain of negativity once I made it clear that I wasn't going to go for SRS. It was anywhere from Whaaaaat? :icon_yikes: to ridicule and outrage from the mean girls of the transgender society! Fortunately everyone grows up eventually. :laugh:
That's interesting because just the other day I was watching a documentary on transgender people and they had a non binary trans woman on there. She got hrt and top surgery but did not want lower surgery to remove her penis. She was extremely proud of her mixed physic, not just happy with it. After this woman was done explaining how happy she was with her body they cut to a scene where a therapist explained (rather uncomfortably imho) that some people dont get lower surgery because of complications and money issues and, etc etc... Like she was making up excuses on the behalf of this transwoman who was perfectly happy with her body! I was actually mad about this, cause I was sitting there thinking "Oh thank god. Finally a trans* documentary where it's not all focused on binary trans people who are either ftm or mtf only and have the typical narrative. Here's a non binary who loves being a "hybrid" as she herself put it." And then some therapist twiddles her thumbs and starts explaining away this womans pride as if it were nonsense. At least thats how I saw it.
I love mixed gender expression and I feel at home around other people who dont have to/want to go through a full transition. Even better when people strive for a mixed presentation. I hate prejudice against non binary trans* people within the trans community, its horrifying to me.
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on March 18, 2013, 12:40:16 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure what happened over the last year, I avoid other places on this forum, just because of the past.
I feel kinda bad about it, I do have other friends who are fully transitioned or are planning on it.
Just not here. But maybe I should grow up about the past, also.
I really like quite a few of the Trans* people who rarely visit the forest anymore.
Maybe they have moved on, I don't know.
I think you'll find less animosity toward non-binaries in the rest of the site now. Mods do a great job of nuking threads or posts where
anyone on the trans continuum is bashed.
Shana
Quote from: ChrisJ on March 18, 2013, 02:19:08 PM
That's interesting because just the other day I was watching a documentary on transgender people and they had a non binary trans woman on there. She got hrt and top surgery but did not want lower surgery to remove her penis. She was extremely proud of her mixed physic, not just happy with it. After this woman was done explaining how happy she was with her body they cut to a scene where a therapist explained (rather uncomfortably imho) that some people dont get lower surgery because of complications and money issues and, etc etc... Like she was making up excuses on the behalf of this transwoman who was perfectly happy with her body! I was actually mad about this, cause I was sitting there thinking "Oh thank god. Finally a trans* documentary where it's not all focused on binary trans people who are either ftm or mtf only and have the typical narrative. Here's a non binary who loves being a "hybrid" as she herself put it." And then some therapist twiddles her thumbs and starts explaining away this womans pride as if it were nonsense. At least thats how I saw it.
I love mixed gender expression and I feel at home around other people who dont have to/want to go through a full transition. Even better when people strive for a mixed presentation. I hate prejudice against non binary trans* people within the trans community, its horrifying to me.
Invariably it all comes down to money and control. The Benjamin Standard of Care made it mandatory that people had to pay out a small fortune to therapists and jump through a lot of hoops just to get on HRT and live for a year dressed in the appropriate gender before being considered eligible for SRS which the transitioner has been led to believe that she hasn't fully arrived until that process is complete. It's always been about money and control as therapists and surgeons specializing in this field made a fortune on the backs of many who even went as far as to become sex workers to be able to afford it.
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on March 18, 2013, 12:40:16 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure what happened over the last year, I avoid other places on this forum, just because of the past.
I feel kinda bad about it, I do have other friends who are fully transitioned or are planning on it.
Just not here. But maybe I should grow up about the past, also.
I really like quite a few of the Trans* people who rarely visit the forest anymore.
Maybe they have moved on, I don't know.
I think as things stand socially and even politically, Trans* people sticking together is more important than ever.
There are some very positive responses from society as a whole, and the bigots are fading away.
It's a good time for everyone to just present as they wish, ignore the radical fringe right and just be.
The infighting kind of stuff doesn't help, I think we all have a better realization that we need to pull together.
I'm actually pretty happy with way things have been going for everyone, but especially the non-binary people.
Maybe I'll go exploring here again, someday. Like I said, there are people who I miss who are very good people.
Meanwhile, back at the secret hideout... ;D
Ativan
Ativan,
Time to come out of the forest my friend, your posts are usually terrific, articulate and well thought out. The rest of the folks on Susan's have been missing out on some great commentaries that many could benefit from.
Quote from: Shantel on March 18, 2013, 05:01:57 PM
Ativan,
Time to come out of the forest my friend, your posts are usually terrific, articulate and well thought out. The rest of the folks on Susan's have been missing out on some great commentaries that many could benefit from.
Thank you! :) But there are reasons for me to be content with staying here, for now. :)
Z, I have noticed that the moderation in this section has become very accepting.
It's done very well. Things are a lot more open than they used to be.
I credit the administration for that. I'm pretty happy about how things are, now.
As new people join the forum, they bring a fresh perspective, a good one.
Ativan
Just realized I derailed the crap out of this thread! :eusa_doh:
OK, meanwhile, back at the Androgyne HRT Ranch...
It sounds like I'm going to have to talk to my Dr about dose's.
It's all so very cool that people are taking doses that will put them physically where they want to be.
It's really encouraging to know that the medical profession is good with this. :icon_geekdance:
And there is less of this: :eusa_wall:
I am curious about getting to where you want to be and then maintaining that.
There must be as many ways of doing that as there are doing a low dose for dysphoria.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on March 21, 2013, 11:23:08 AM
Just realized I derailed the crap out of this thread! :eusa_doh:
OK, meanwhile, back at the Androgyne HRT Ranch...
It sounds like I'm going to have to talk to my Dr about dose's.
It's all so very cool that people are taking doses that will put them physically where they want to be.
It's really encouraging to know that the medical profession is good with this. :icon_geekdance:
And there is less of this: :eusa_wall:
I am curious about getting to where you want to be and then maintaining that.
There must be as many ways of doing that as there are doing a low dose for dysphoria.
Ativan
Low doses are always a good starting point to see how your body will react in terms of tolerance, checking testosterone and estrogen levels are then determined by follow-up blood draws and lab results. At that point a discussion with the doctor ensues to emphasize how far you want to take it and where you want to go with it in terms of feminization, at that time if all is well then the doctor should see fit to increase the dosages to reach your goal. Once you are there then it's normal to drop back down to a low dose level for ongoing maintenance and continued good health.
Ativan
I have been on low dose hrt for 18 months. Dr Hayes (Sydney, Australia) has been using this therapy for GID patients for a number of years. Once a base line (blood, hormone levels etc) and objectives were established we have been adjusting the meds on a quarterly basis.
While being mid 50's had led me to expect minimal physical change, YMMV proved to be true for me and changes moved very quickly indeed. I derived the rich emotional benefits and the GID stopped cold. Emotionally, apart what I refer to as 'experiencing some fluffy thinking' I was in a really great place, but my body kept changing. I admit that I felt really good on higher dosages but the lower dosages still took me to a much better emotional place. To slow things down I took the lowest dosages.
However even with the lowest combinations of meds my body had a mind of its own! The muscle loss, movement of body fat, skin, hair and facial changes were welcomed but rapid breast growth threw me. In the end I felt I had to choose between a bilateral breast reduction (I had a full C cup, and they were still growing rapidly) and my preferred emotional state.
Post the breast reduction I am still on low dose hrt but I have bought more time (perhaps 2 to 5 years). When analysing my motives, fears etc like so many things in life I can't be completely sure of my truth. While I know that I wasn't ready for the extent and pace of all of the physical changes I am not sure if this was driven by plain denial if self/fear, situational (family, friends, career etc) factors or whether I am excessively cautious. I have come out to a small number of friends who have been supportive and surprised but non-judgemental. My wife was the least supportive and said that she "will not stay (with me) if there is a full transition" but says she 'supports' me in doing what I need to do.
Internally I feel female but suspect that I will be most happy blending and living between the traditional gender types.
This is certainly a better and richer outcome than the bleak possibility presented to me in 1988 when the so called therapist took one look at my naked body (I was 195 lbs and very athletic) and said "you could never pass so transitioning is not an option for you!"
Thankfully we have come a long way since then and we have more options available to us. Low dose hrt and informed Doctors have helped me enrich my life and supported my life journey, no matter where it as and will take me.
When I started Spiro a couple years back, I started at about 4x what I take now.
It was quite the emotional change, the rage stopped cold.
I upped the dose to 8x and my body reacted pretty fast.
That was the safe upper limit my Dr uses, so basically full dose.
I freaked out at first, stopped completely for about a month, then went to 2x.
I was good with it, but I wanted to see if lower would work.
So I started at the dose I'm on now, and I started a low dose E patch.
My boobs reacted right away, but then pretty much slowed to a stop.
Hair growth slowed way down back at the 8x dose and has stayed there.
I have lost about half my body hair, and growth is very slow.
But other than that, I don't see much change.
I've gone back and forth in my thinking about where to go from here.
Right now I'm OK with presenting very much male. Pretty masculine looking.
But I am trying to lose weight and my muscle mass is lower, but I haven't worked out for the last 9 months.
I want to lose what little fat I have, and then start back on just a fitness workout routine.
Then I'll put some fat weight back on and hopefully it will go to my hips more.
Boobs? By the Mother and Sisters scale, I would probably end up with a C cup easily.
But I don't think I'll want to go that far. From behind I get mistaken for a female half the time.
Having hair past the middle of my back I'm sure is most of it.
I'm told that my body movements are pretty feminine, also.
Stopped hiding them and have 'unlearned' the male movements I worked so hard to have growing up.
Had I known back then, had the world been as it is now, I probably would have done a full transition.
Instead, I went totally into that hyper-masculine mode.
*Sorry world for the mean bastard I turned into. Nobody should have to go through what I put myself through.
It is really encouraging to hear about what some of you have done or are planning.
Had that been an option when I was young, I'd be so damn Androgynous looking...
But I'm comfy with where I am for the moment.
We'll see what comes along, I'm mentally in a good place and that's the most important thing there is for me.
I'm taken care of by some of the best gender specialists in this country.
Things are good, for now.
Ativan
It's been awhile since i posted in the forest, although I have been keeping an eye on what's happening here. This seemed like a good place to give an update on my low dose HRT experience.
In a word, my life has returned to a "normal" boy mode - I no longer have severe GID or dysphoria episodes... at all. Smooth sailing, quite boring actually.
I am bigender, and girl mode comes very gently these days, instead of the heated rush she used to show up in. I can choose when and where i want to present en femme now, instead of being driven into presenting with no choice. Make no mistake - she's still around and requires some care and feeding but it's nothing like where i was at before HRT.
Yes, i have some physical changes but those are minor compared to the changes I was contemplating before HRT. In the moments where she was in full control she had me convinced that I needed to go the full monte with SRS and that a divorce with my wife was probably in the cards.
So for me, low dose HRT has been an extreme blessing.
Riven
Quote from: riven1 on March 24, 2013, 12:41:35 AM
It's been awhile since i posted in the forest, although I have been keeping an eye on what's happening here. This seemed like a good place to give an update on my low dose HRT experience.
In a word, my life has returned to a "normal" boy mode - I no longer have severe GID or dysphoria episodes... at all. Smooth sailing, quite boring actually.
I am bigender, and girl mode comes very gently these days, instead of the heated rush she used to show up in. I can choose when and where i want to present en femme now, instead of being driven into presenting with no choice. Make no mistake - she's still around and requires some care and feeding but it's nothing like where i was at before HRT.
Yes, i have some physical changes but those are minor compared to the changes I was contemplating before HRT. In the moments where she was in full control she had me convinced that I needed to go the full monte with SRS and that a divorce with my wife was probably in the cards.
So for me, low dose HRT has been an extreme blessing.
Riven
Great post! A lot of folks should read this before committing marital suicide and living a life of loneliness with regrets over lost loved ones.
The idea of HRT has taken on a lot of gravity over the past week-ish, pulling me in at an accelerating rate. I've been thinking and thinking, and bugging Caleb with my questions (hugs for you, Caleb!), and thinking some more.
And I've decided to call the clinic in my city that does informed consent HRT.
I've heard that they have a waiting list of a few months. And on top of that there are three appointments you have to attend (blood work/maybe a physical, "hormone advocate" meeting, blood work review) which could be spaced up to a few weeks apart.
So I'm going to call them and get the process started, and then have time for a few more therapy appointments before I have to make the final decision. I'd hate to decide I want to start T and then have it be up to five months off.
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on March 23, 2013, 06:22:48 PM
Had I known back then, had the world been as it is now, I probably would have done a full transition.
Instead, I went totally into that hyper-masculine mode.
*Sorry world for the mean bastard I turned into. Nobody should have to go through what I put myself through.
It is really encouraging to hear about what some of you have done or are planning.
Had that been an option when I was young, I'd be so damn Androgynous looking...
But I'm comfy with where I am for the moment.
We'll see what comes along, I'm mentally in a good place and that's the most important thing there is for me.
I'm taken care of by some of the best gender specialists in this country.
Things are good, for now.
Ativan
I too went hyper masculine for a while and also emotionless for a while. Both these states harmed me a lot, in terms of emotional well being. But that's the past now. Even though I have not started any kind of medical intervention, it is something I am considering strongly. Just not totally sure about it because I am attracted to women, and am a bit afraid of never having a partner. But that's just fear, and I am sure it will be overcome sometime soon... hopefully :-)
Ativan, great to know you are being taken care of by some of the best gender specialists, and it's working out so well. I hope all of us find peace and joy in life. It's really awesome to be non-binary, but sad that we often find it so hard to be able to express and just be ourselves.
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on March 21, 2013, 11:23:08 AM
Just realized I derailed the crap out of this thread! :eusa_doh:
OK, meanwhile, back at the Androgyne HRT Ranch...
It sounds like I'm going to have to talk to my Dr about dose's.
It's all so very cool that people are taking doses that will put them physically where they want to be.
It's really encouraging to know that the medical profession is good with this. :icon_geekdance:
And there is less of this: :eusa_wall:
I am curious about getting to where you want to be and then maintaining that.
There must be as many ways of doing that as there are doing a low dose for dysphoria.
Ativan
Not really. I could sit at your feet all day and just listen. :)
Oh!, and I would love to emulate my avatar, Hermaphroditus.
Quote from: ChrisJ on March 18, 2013, 02:19:08 PM
That's interesting because just the other day I was watching a documentary on transgender people and they had a non binary trans woman on there. She got hrt and top surgery but did not want lower surgery to remove her penis. She was extremely proud of her mixed physic, not just happy with it. After this woman was done explaining how happy she was with her body they cut to a scene where a therapist explained (rather uncomfortably imho) that some people dont get lower surgery because of complications and money issues and, etc etc... Like she was making up excuses on the behalf of this transwoman who was perfectly happy with her body! I was actually mad about this, cause I was sitting there thinking "Oh thank god. Finally a trans* documentary where it's not all focused on binary trans people who are either ftm or mtf only and have the typical narrative. Here's a non binary who loves being a "hybrid" as she herself put it." And then some therapist twiddles her thumbs and starts explaining away this womans pride as if it were nonsense. At least thats how I saw it.
I love mixed gender expression and I feel at home around other people who dont have to/want to go through a full transition. Even better when people strive for a mixed presentation. I hate prejudice against non binary trans* people within the trans community, its horrifying to me.
A few years ago Oprah Winfrey had a panel of three or four different women born with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS). All were obviously women but have XY chromosomes rather then typically XX as cis females do. The interesting part of the discussion was that two of them had SRS to correct their genitalia to be more aesthetically female, while the last one being obviously female was quite boyish and enjoyed herself in either mode as it so suited her and had no desire to get her genitalia fixed. I thought she was the most honest and real one in the group, I admired her for her attitude.
Hellow everyone, i am ema, i am from Mexico and i´m 30 years old, well i began crossdressing since 1990, at first i thought it was like a fetish, all my life i thought this was not a big issue, i got married, had a kid, then we separate, i was 28, and was living alone for the first time, well being alone help me bring back my crossdressernes, but now it was different, so i felt the need to tell my baby´s mom about me, she was in shock, but accepted, so she wanted to know me as a girl, and she did, but with the time i was like OMG, i want to be a girl, fully a girl, so the last 2 years i though i was a transgender woman, i had a bad therapis for around 1 year 5 months, she did not help me, in fact, she affected me, now i am with a sexologist-psychologhis,therapist, i dont know how to say that in english, hope you understand, well the thing is, i discover i am androgynous, INSIDE AND OUT, and that is why i´m here, there is no information about people like us, and i need help.
Well first of all, HRT, i love my genitalia, and i don´t want to quit to that part of me, i like the pros of hrt, but i don´t like the cons, so my plan is to get FFS, lipoesculture and hip augmentation, i won´t get breast, because i don´t want to quit being a DAD, so, and right now i am comfortable with the size of my breats, i just want to embrace my femininity, people DO get confused right now, some people think im a girl, some other people think im a guy, and that´s great, im ok with that, but i guess i feel more comfortable being trated as a girl, the big BUT, is that if i want to be a DAD, i would have to try to act more like a guy will act, maybe like a feminine guy, but still a guy, i know right now i am thinking a lot of what society would think, and i know that with the time i will not care about it, but well i will have to work that with my therapist, so i need help.
There´s a lot of "complements" for crossdressers, ->-bleeped-<-s, transgender people, have anyone tried those? Does it work? i don´t know if surgery will quiet that NOISE every androgyne talk about, i don´t know if i can mentally balances my masculine side and my femenine side, i don´t know if people like us need that, right now i am done planning about my physics, but there´s a lot to do about the psychological part, any advice?
Why i was considering not going for hrt? Well first of all, i don´t want to be impotent, but i think it would be great to low my libido, the other thing, well my mom have high pression ( alta presion en español) sorry, i don´t know how to translate it, my dad had an infart, and a openheart operation, my dad´s mom had diabetes, so i don´t want to embrace that with HRT, i just want to be happy, accept myself as a human being, but i don´t want to die trying to achieve that, you know what i mean? Here in Mexico surgerys are not so expensive as in USA, with less than 20,000 usd i can get FFS, lipoesculture and hip augmentation, so i feel that is the way to go, but i´ve been thinking on hrt for 2 years, and i need people like me, who understand what we feel as bigender or androgynous persons, to help me with advices, i really like this forum, everyone seems to be so great persons, and i am glad i find this website, so basically what i want to achieve is to be more femenine and still can be a guy or a girl when i feel to, i want my mind to match with my body and viceversa, i want to feel complete, i want to become ME, and not the "man" i used to be, because hiding this GID helped a lot transforming my male side into a "macho" and i am not a macho, hell no, i feel like i´m an angel, a beautifoul angel, with both characteristics male and female, and i think this is beautifoul, i want to be proud of who i am, but the thing is, that right now i think that i need to transition ( surgerys) to become me, and maybe hrt could help with that, what can you guys recommend me? i am still so depressed, not about my gender searching anymore, i am depressed about my economical problems, about my past, about my relationship with my parents, i am treating my depression, but i am still not ok, and that is affecting a lot with my MTA transition, so i hope you can help me guys, if you need more information about me just ask ok? best wishes for all of you, and nice to meet you, xoxoxo, ciaooo
Quote from: Shantel on March 18, 2013, 05:01:57 PM
Ativan,
Time to come out of the forest my friend, your posts are usually terrific, articulate and well thought out. The rest of the folks on Susan's have been missing out on some great commentaries that many could benefit from.
I second that :)
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 05, 2013, 04:23:06 AM
Hello Ema,
Such a nice long post, it makes me feel like I know you much better already. You are at the right place here and let me suggest that whatever you do concerning changes that you take it slowly and enjoy each day being whoever you wish to be. I had originally intended to transition fully, but for several reasons decided against it and have found peace in the idea that I can be happy appearing to be any mixture in the gender spectrum and enjoy just being me. You can achieve that by taking it slowly living your life one day at a time making a plan for each day so that you don't feel like you are in limbo. Further along on your path you may decide on some changes, maybe a low-level feminizing HRT. No-one here can make up your mind for you, any changes you make to your physical appearance all have to be your own decision coupled with the advice of your therapist. Long heartfelt conversations with your your spouse and loved ones is always most helpful to a continued relationship. Good luck amigo, we are all in this together so feel free to consider this as your extended family.
Hellow SHan, nice to meet you :D yes you´re right, and believe me i am "transitioning" step by step, te be honest, 3 weeks ago i was talking with my therapist about fully transition, but in the mid-time i took the c.og.i.a.t.i. test and another one for transgender people like us, and my results were almost 50 50, in the past i used to think that i could be ok being a man, and i could be ok being a girl, but i wasn´t aware that if i get exactly to the opposite side of gender i could have a lot of problems, so my first fear of all, was to fully transition and then with i don´t know 10 or 15 years being fully, regret it, so i was on youtube searching for androgyne peoples, genderqueers, non binary, and i was like OOHH, it do exista "label" for my GID, i refused back in the days to catalogue my self as a crossdresser, because i though that was contradictory for a trans person, now accepting myself as a non bynari or androgynous persona, is helping me a lot, the first great experience about being androgynous is that i can still be my baby´s daddy, and the second best part is that i can be the girl i am FOR ME, and society would think oh, that guys is so beautifoul that he passes as a gilr but HE IS a guy, you know what i mean? like a lot of persons here, i need to be responsable with my son, and also i need to be responsable with myself, so being androgynous is like 2 x 1 price, i get to be the girl and the dad, so i am happy about it, right now i am thinking about letting my high heels, skirts and make up for my closet, i won´t be able to dress so so femenine in my laboral life, but i´ve been dressing unisex clothes 5 years now, and no one notice, i literraly only wear boxers and tennis shoes from my male wear, my jeans and t.shirts are girl t shirts and jeans, i have a mid-long hair, i have a curly hair, people when they realize im a guy and not a girl, they usually think oh, he is like a " rockstar" hahahaha so i am ok with that.
Well that is something more about me, about HRT again, anyone know if just taking estrogen could help with the emotional issues? and not blocking T? my fear about blocking T it is my sexual drive, i want my buddy to work hahah, i ggotta be honest with ya´ll, that is my biggest fear being honest, and also breast development, because my ants and my sister have huge breasts, and i have big breast right now being a guy, and having big breast won´t help me passing as a male, so that´s why i am thinking about FFS and lipoesculture and hip augmentation, BUT if i get HRT, my hips will be natural, my waist, even my face will be more femenine, and maybe i won´t have to spend money on surgerys, BUUUT again hahaha, there is a possibility of no erections, and breast, i am also ok being a little strong, i mean i don´t want to have muscles, but i want to be able to be strong too, so i really don´t know what to expect with low HRT, i am thinking about it again like a posibilitie, but i want to be healthy too, so i really don´t know what to do, and i like to plan things before doing anything, right now i am searching about hrt, and maybe i will start next year, the same about surgerys, i know i have to heal everything inside first, and then start something to match my mind and body, also my fear of hrt, is that if i start right now, i don´t want to get suicidal, i think about that right now, but not in the real way, maybe i can say somedays i want to die, everything is messed up, but i know i won´t kill myself, i have an angel, and he is 2 years old :D and i love him, like a mother loves her kids, so if someday i want hrt, i know i have to be psychologically ok, well that´s it for today, i´ll be waiting for everyone´s advices ok? xoxoxo, ciaooo
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 05, 2013, 12:55:55 PM
Hellow SHan, nice to meet you :D yes you´re right, and believe me i am "transitioning" step by step, te be honest, 3 weeks ago i was talking with my therapist about fully transition, but in the mid-time i took the c.og.i.a.t.i. test and another one for transgender people like us, and my results were almost 50 50, in the past i used to think that i could be ok being a man, and i could be ok being a girl, but i wasn´t aware that if i get exactly to the opposite side of gender i could have a lot of problems, so my first fear of all, was to fully transition and then with i don´t know 10 or 15 years being fully, regret it, so i was on youtube searching for androgyne peoples, genderqueers, non binary, and i was like OOHH, it do exista "label" for my GID, i refused back in the days to catalogue my self as a crossdresser, because i though that was contradictory for a trans person, now accepting myself as a non bynari or androgynous persona, is helping me a lot, the first great experience about being androgynous is that i can still be my baby´s daddy, and the second best part is that i can be the girl i am FOR ME, and society would think oh, that guys is so beautifoul that he passes as a gilr but HE IS a guy, you know what i mean? like a lot of persons here, i need to be responsable with my son, and also i need to be responsable with myself, so being androgynous is like 2 x 1 price, i get to be the girl and the dad, so i am happy about it, right now i am thinking about letting my high heels, skirts and make up for my closet, i won´t be able to dress so so femenine in my laboral life, but i´ve been dressing unisex clothes 5 years now, and no one notice, i literraly only wear boxers and tennis shoes from my male wear, my jeans and t.shirts are girl t shirts and jeans, i have a mid-long hair, i have a curly hair, people when they realize im a guy and not a girl, they usually think oh, he is like a " rockstar" hahahaha so i am ok with that. Yes, I am in complete agreement with you on this, and have adapted to this in my own life as well, you can still live on either side of the fence as you choose without going through a lot of expensive surgery and procedures that are permanent and may be regrettable later.
Well that is something more about me, about HRT again, anyone know if just taking estrogen could help with the emotional issues? Yes, I went from a more aggressive personality to a more passive one and am more likable by my family than I once was as a little dictator.and not blocking T? my fear about blocking T it is my sexual drive, You don't need to use a T blocker, most MtF's use it to further enhance the feminization process and stop any further masculinization. However, continual use of estrogen will eventually kill your "buddy" and he will atrophy (shrink) and your sex drive will be diminished and breasts will become enlarged, this is me after several years on HRT, so you will have to think it over as it might not be what you want.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fscaled%2Fmodthumb%2F594%2Fim001319g.jpg&hash=721ae39855c061584e48740da1a9363a081c4d33) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/im001319g.jpg/)
Shan hellow again, thank you so much for the fastest reply :D , can i ask you something? i am quite confused right now about estrogen effects on you, i read that the possible effects without blocking testosteron was nule, did you also block T or not? another thing, which is the one who have worst secondary effects E or blocking T, i mean in my sexual activity, i remember once i bought some creams with phytoestrogen, those creams people sell, that help increasing your butt and your breasts, this are for man and woman, i bought the creams for woman, so i remember in those days i was feeling great, in that time was when i decided to tell my wife about me, so i don´t know if my body was happy for the phytoestrogens or it was just me, what do you think? to be honest i will looove to have bigger hips and thinner waist, less muscle, so the question is (obviously in the future befores taking any medication i will see an endochrynologyst) if a person takes low doses of estrogen, that helps a little bit with body distribution? is it dangerous to stop estrogen for some months? I´ve read about fully transition doses of hrt, and the effect of going out of hormones it is dangerous, so my question is, is it still dangerous for me even if i consume a little bit of E? i am thinking, if i do not block my T, i won´t have issues with my buddy down there, is that true? i don´t know how to upload photos, please help me out :D
Also i am like 80% sure about my future surgerys, because i want a more femenine face, and also i want a more curvy body, no question about it, my dilemma is what can i fix in my face, without loosing my androgynous face, you know what i mean? i think fixing my hairline, my nose and my lips are the best way to go, without loosing the "strenght" of my face, i mean strength= masculinity, some days i just feel like i want a girl face, sometimes i feel like i need only to embrace my femininity by only doing my nose lips and hairline, and when i want a girl face i want to do more about it, so there´s no doubt about me having fix some of my facial features, but my dilemma is what to fix, so i thinks if taking E without healthy problems, and not blocking t, and if i get the results you got could pretty much femenize my face enough, and possibly in the future i just get my nose and lips done, so please could you be more specific about all the good changes in your health and physics and psychologicals, and all the bad problems with taking E? i know everyone is different, but i with your story and other one i could make a better decision, today im still depressed, just when i talk about my transition i feel a little bit calm, maybe something is missing and it could possibly be estrogen, maybe it is just my depression, i don´t know, that is why i am here with you guys :D because in some point we all go through the same things, the bad ones and the great ones, so i´ll be waiting for your advices, xoxoxo, ciaoo
Hi again Ema,
I don't want to discourage you in any way, but on the other hand I think that you really need to discuss most of what you are saying here with your counselor. Let me assure you that taking estrogens isn't going to be helping your male business at all, some people become completely disinterested in any kind of sexual activity after having used estrogen. A man's penis will atrophy and become quite small, like that of a child. It doesn't sound like a good plan for you at this time. So discuss the pro's and con's of this with your counselor.
Concerning uploading a photo, most have an online location like Image Shack where they can store photos. Then you get a link that you can cut and paste on your post and your photo will come up.
Hellow Shan, ok, so no photos for now hahaha, well you are right again, and i think for now i won´t think about hormones, because i am not willing to get the cons of it at all, so i guess i will have to learn how to deal with my GID mentally speaking, i know i can, i think i just need time to evolve, this is why in the past i decided to not go for hrt, i just had like the dream if there was something out there that will help without hormones, like the complements i talked about, a lot of people say they work, but the cons are the same, and to be honest i don´t want my buddy to be smaller than it is, if you know what i mean hahahahaha, so the right path for me, at least for now, is achieving the body changes i need to feel more stable with surgery, i think about it this way:
My dysphoria is about not feeling comfortable about my BODY, all of us as transgender persons (because i think we all are transgender but there are some levels about it) have a not matching "alarm" about our body, some people need srs, some of us don´t, some need breasts, some of us not, and there´s the opposite of us, so the big deal with our problem, in my opinion, it´s our body, so surgery could be a safe path for me, i hope i don´t get that noise in my head after surgery, i think i will not get that, so in my opinion our problem basically it´s our body.
We all know who we are, what we feel, and there is a NATURAL femenine or masculine side inside of us, and at least for me, i don´t think i would have to be medicated to feel it, in the past i felt that noise, but now, that i am accepting myself i feel more comfortable day by day, obviosuly i need to achieve my physical changes to stop thinking about it, because right now my transition it is only in my mind and soul, and i need changes to feel more comfortable, if you know what i mean.
But well there is something bothering me right no, i don´t know if this happen to someone around here, but it seems like i can´t concentrate, right now i am living as a zombie, i just eat and sleep, i usually search for information about people like us, everyday, i don´t know if this is ok, or this is wrong, like i told you, i am depressed right now about my financial situation, not about my GID, my GID is what keeps me motivated, but i am loosing control of my life, it is like i don´t feel nothing, i can´t cry, i can get angry, but i can´t cry, that is something i will talk with my therapist next session, i hope somone went through this ( not in the bad way) so you can give me some tips to avoid this kind of feelings, well the good part for today, is that Shan opened my eyes and mind again about HRT, and i want to thank you about it, it is great to have this kind of help, but to be honest, can anyone talk about complements for feminization? there is a complement named ova-glan from cross-dress.com so i hope anyone can talk about this products, maybe creams are not so dangerous, i don´t know, that´s why am asking :) well that´s it for now, see you tomorrow Shan, have a great week end, xoxoxo, ciaoo
Hi again Ema,
It seems like you are getting some thinking straightened out in your head now, I'm glad for you about that. We are all here to help one another and share experiences. I have not heard about that product that you are referring to so I can't comment on it. Meanwhile, you're zombie-like emotions are probably from over-obsessing about this GID related stuff, we all do it at times. Are you getting your proper sleep at night? You may just need to take a break and get some good food and some rest. Be sure and discuss all of this with your counselor and don't hold back any secrets, they can't help us if we aren't completely honest and give them all the facts. Wishing you well! ((hugs))
Hellow shan, how are you, thanks for your comments, to be honest i don´t like to be thinking everyday about this, i mean i know i am learning and learning more about me, but i don´t know if this is an obsession or just i am searching to be ok with my body, the thing is, i am depending on money to get my body to match, and my financial status is not ok, so maybe my depression it is based on money, i have to be honest, i was raise as a superficial and materialist person, so the money for me is a huge deal, in the past i had a good life economically speaking, and know that i am broke, everything is getting worst and worst, i know i won´t be broke all my life, but right now this is affecting me so much, i studied mechatronical engineering, i graduated from the best universities here in Mexico, but even before i graduated i started some bussines ( companies ) and now that i am broke, no one wants to give me an oportunity, because people think i don´t know nothing about jobs, so that is a pain in my ass, i think basically my issue here is money, because i know that my therapist is helping very very very much about my gender issues, and my life issues, but she can´t do a lot for me in the economic fill, i hope i can get a job soon, i really like doing bussines, but right now i don´t have money to start, so i think maybe this is the biggest problem i´m going through, and it affects all aspects of life, with my wife, with me, with my transition, even with my therapy sessions, what do you think about this Shan?
Another thing, i was talking with my wife today, about my face, she some days is very understanding, some other days she is not, today she told me that she thinks i want to change of face, i mean she put it this way: you want to be other person, and that make me thing a lot, i don´t want to change who i am, i just need to"fix" my body, i want to embrace my femininity around my face and body, that´s all, i want to feel comfortable with my face and body, and right now i´m not, my wife sometimes tell me she is going to leave, some other times she tell me that she wants to stay with me, this problems of being together started even before i told her about my GID, i guess in the past the reason was my machism, right now i am quite done with the "macho" thing, and that is great for me, so could you tell me what did you feel when you wanted physical changes, did you say you just wanted to fix your body, or did you think you wanted a whole new body or face like my wife told me? i feel it is important, because i do still care what other people say, i´m not done with that, possibly after 3 or 4 months of therapy i will don´t care about what people say, i am just being me, and i just want to be me, but i feel that i need some changes physically to be ok, and i know the majority of us need this, some a lot of changes, some very few, so i hope you can help me about this again, xoxoxo, ciaoo
Quote from: Antonia J on April 05, 2013, 05:28:37 AM
I second that :)
Thank You! :)
I'm sure at some point, I will venture out more...
IRL, I have done much in regards to this.
I have farther to go. I am still in a kind of recovery mode of sorts.
But thanks everyone for the encouragement!
It means a lot to me.
Ativan
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 06, 2013, 01:41:58 PM
Hellow shan, how are you, thanks for your comments, to be honest i don´t like to be thinking everyday about this, i mean i know i am learning and learning more about me, but i don´t know if this is an obsession or just i am searching to be ok with my body, the thing is, i am depending on money to get my body to match, and my financial status is not ok, so maybe my depression it is based on money, i have to be honest, i was raise as a superficial and materialist person, so the money for me is a huge deal, in the past i had a good life economically speaking, and know that i am broke, everything is getting worst and worst, i know i won´t be broke all my life, but right now this is affecting me so much, i studied mechatronical engineering, i graduated from the best universities here in Mexico, but even before i graduated i started some bussines ( companies ) and now that i am broke, no one wants to give me an oportunity, because people think i don´t know nothing about jobs, so that is a pain in my ass, i think basically my issue here is money, because i know that my therapist is helping very very very much about my gender issues, and my life issues, but she can´t do a lot for me in the economic fill, i hope i can get a job soon, i really like doing bussines, but right now i don´t have money to start, so i think maybe this is the biggest problem i´m going through, and it affects all aspects of life, with my wife, with me, with my transition, even with my therapy sessions, what do you think about this Shan? I and many others here completely understand about the lack of finances, many have lost jobs and are struggling to survive and to not become a street person. This will surely put one's plans on hold for awhile, but my life's experience is that these things are just for a season, meanwhile sometimes we have to think outside of the box and reinvent ourselves in the job market. I have done that several times rather than wait until I lost everything.
Another thing, i was talking with my wife today, about my face, she some days is very understanding, some other days she is not, today she told me that she thinks i want to change of face, i mean she put it this way: you want to be other person, and that make me thing a lot, i don´t want to change who i am, i just need to"fix" my body, i want to embrace my femininity around my face and body, that´s all, i want to feel comfortable with my face and body, and right now i´m not, my wife sometimes tell me she is going to leave, some other times she tell me that she wants to stay with me, this problems of being together started even before i told her about my GID, i guess in the past the reason was my machism, right now i am quite done with the "macho" thing, and that is great for me, so could you tell me what did you feel when you wanted physical changes, did you say you just wanted to fix your body, or did you think you wanted a whole new body or face like my wife told me? i feel it is important, because i do still care what other people say, i´m not done with that, possibly after 3 or 4 months of therapy i will don´t care about what people say, i am just being me, and i just want to be me, but i feel that i need some changes physically to be ok, and i know the majority of us need this, some a lot of changes, some very few, so i hope you can help me about this again, xoxoxo, ciaoo I think a person has to consider what is most important and prioritize everything. For me my marriage and my family was infinitely more important and there are things I had to put on the back of my list for awhile. Most importantly if you intend to keep your wife and family you need to have a lot of long conversations and keep her advised of what you are doing and try to minimize in her mind and heart about how little this will affect the relationship that you both have. If you can't do that effectively then you will possibly lose her. It happens to a lot of us here, sometimes it's best to make changes slowly and incrementally rather than all at once. It seems that you have no choice right now anyway so perhaps that is the silver lining in the dark cloud for you. Sometimes we don't see setbacks as a blessing, but this may be the case, so get focused on getting some work and give yourself a break about over-thinking the GID stuff[ so you don't become loco de la cabasa!/color]
Ema,
What Shan is telling you is really good advice. Go slow.
From a Dysphoria standpoint, HRT can be just the thing for anyone.
I'd try this first, but that's just me. You are the one who decides.
I have stressed this point before, also. You are the one who decides.
Dysphoria can manifest itself in different ways.
How we react is going to be different for each of us.
There isn't as much information as there should be.
But regardless, we are all going to react in different ways.
Ema, like Shan has said, it really is something you need to discuss with your therapist.
Even when they don't have an answer for you, just the act of talking it out is revealing.
For many people, it's not a difficult thing to deal with.
For some, the realization of how it is affecting you might not be fully realized.
For MAAB's, hyper-masculinity is sometimes a reaction that we don't realize we are having.
For FAAB's, hyper-femininity does seem like a distinctly actual response. I haven't run across it, yet. *MAAB, here.
Something to keep in mind, not only for reference, but as an actuality that some may not have considered.
My point is that not enough is known for anyone but yourself to make that call.
And it may take talking it out with someone, preferably a therapist to help guide you through.
There isn't, like so many things about being non-binary, a well worn path to follow.
This is true about HRT for us, whether low dose, full dose, or anything in between.
It's really not a 'Your mileage may vary', it most certainly will.
It will change as you change. It will be different for each person.
Low dose HRT is rarely harmful as far as I have heard, not initially anyways.
You HAVE TO do it with supervision, and finding a Dr that really is up to date is priceless.
It's not taking a medication, it is messing around with your hormonal balance.
And there is a range that balance needs to stay in.
This means getting bloodwork done. T bockers means getting your free and total T levels checked.
You also need to know if your BP is too low. Yep, they can lower your BP.
You need to know your Sodium and Potassium levels, they are diuretics and you can build up too much Potassium.
That alone is dangerous enough, so you need a balance here also. Think sports drinks. Kind of like that.
T blockers usually will tell you within a week or two if they are right for you, 'emotionally'.
Also reversible in the short run, a few months usually. Maybe longer, maybe not. YMMV.
In very low doses, they may have almost no affect on your libido, or size. They probably will eventually.
Always start low.
The less effective dose for you, the better off you will be, whether you are looking for large or small changes.
Taking E is pretty much the same approach, but it is a hormone as opposed to a side effect that will change your T levels.
So the result is going to be different. But not so much the approach. You still need to keep things in balance.
You still need bloodwork done. (Stop going 'Ewww', it's just a simple blood draw and you don't have to look).
Here again, you can get doses that are so low that it will take quite awhile before any real physical changes take place.
But they will, eventually. More so with E as I understand it.
So much for dysphoria kind of doses.
If you are looking for physical changes, they may or may not work the way you want.
Again, you start low and work up, with Dr permission and supervision, to what you want, based on the results.
You will experience a loss in libido, how much depends on how you tolerate them.
You are screwing around with your hormone levels, and that's all there is to it.
Your body as it is, really isn't designed to do this.
Thank everyone before you for paving the way. If it wasn't for Transsexuals, you wouldn't have this opportunity.
But their path is well worn with lots of information and Drs are much more familiar with cause and effects at those doses.
There aren't any shortcuts, there isn't (yet) any magical way of doing this.
This isn't like taking any over the counter cold medication. People have died trying to go it alone.
The odds of something going wrong, by not having this supervised by a Dr who is familiar with this, is enormous.
What is right for your sibling even, doesn't make it the right dose or way for you.
If something at least small doesn't go wrong, even with a Dr, you're lucky.
Sound like something you still want to try?
Go for it. If it helps you, it's worth it. Just be careful.
Ativan
Hellow Shan, i agree, right now i definitely shoud be focuse about money, because this is what is affecting me, about my relation with my wife, to be honest, i don´t know what will happen, since we been separated twice, i don´t know what to expect, it is difficult for me to try to understand her, sometimes she makes me feel that she is not happy because of my GID, so i tell her if we should separate, then she agreed, and next day she says she loves me and don´t want me to go, and it is difficult for me, because so times i think, well great if we can be together, and i plan our future, but then, in a second everything comes apart and she is like ok, we better be apart, i know i can be happy with or without her, but i don´t think this relationship depends only on me, i try to be the best husband for her, she have other 2 kids, from different fathers, her fathers are not in the picture, they don´t even know the girls, they are my daughters, and they like me as her father, infact, they know about me and they accepted me, but again, i don´t know what my wife wants, she is not bisexual or lesbian, that´s why she is distant with me, we don´t even have sex now, no often, sometimes, and i try not to talk a lot about that, because if she doesn´t want to, i won´t insist, so there are a lot of ups and downs with our relation, and sometimes i don´t know what to expect, sometimes i am preparing myself to be alone, and when she says: i still love you, i am like really? it is so confussing, i love her, sometimes i try not feeling anything, but i know deep inside of me i love her, but sometimes i think it could be the best for us to be separated, obviously just not living in the same house, i will see her everyday, because when we are separated, i see my son everyday, right now i am a little bit calmer, i guess everything its going to be ok in some more months, i realize my biggest problem is money right now, and i hope i can get some within this days.
Back to feminization, wich part of the face do you think can make a change about appearing more female? i am thinking nose and lips, and depending your hair, maybe hairline, because i am thinking about just getting my nose and lips fix, and maybe my hairline, so the question is, if you could get FFS, and you want to pass as male and female what changes would you do? i think fixing the jaw will take the strenght of my face, and without that maybe i could not pass as a male, what´s your opinion? xoxoxo, ciaoo
Hellow Ativan, thanks for your response, first of all, i want to congratulate you, i really like your comments, i´ve been reading and reading, and i think you are a great person.
About Hrt, yes, right now to be honest, there´s still a little noise about HRT on my head, but i think hrt isn´t good for me, maybe talking with a dr could help, but here in Mexico there is no so much help for transgender, so non binary people like me will be like crazy people to drs, i live in a small city, so i don´t think endochrynologist here know about hrt for people like us, another thing, i wanted hormones to get body redistribution, soft skin, hips, bla bla bla, so to be honest i wanted hormones just for the physical changes, also hrt help keeping your hair, but weeks ago, before i subscribed this channel, i was like, ok ema, you want a more femenine face, hips, long hair, etc.. there are 2 ways of achiving this, surgery and diet, and hrt and diet, obviously i have to do some exercise in the 2 options, but that is something normal for me, hrt was less expensive in the short run, surgery is less expensive in the long run, so then i had to re-evaluate this options with the cons of the 2 options, and surgery was a winner, because like i told SHan, i love my buddy down there, and i don´t want him to die hahahaha, and that is a big deal for me, also in the past i was thinking about orchydectomy, but i guess it would affect also my sexual life, look, about my buddy the only thing i want to is to be able to have erections and orgasms, also i was walking away HRT for the mortal secondary effects, i just want to be happy, i don´t want to die trying to be happy, you know what i mean? my body is not too bad, i really think some liposuction will help a lot, and my face is really androgynous, the thing with my face, is that i want to look a little bit more femenine ( hrt could help with that) so the only way to not have drastically changes on my body or face will be surgery for now, but it got my attention HRT in low doses, because i was reading how do porn actresses ( transgenderwoman) do to keep their buddy working normally, they have great bodies, very femenine, and those bodys are not just surgery, they stil get hormones, but i heard that they take it some time, and then stop it, take it some time and stop it, i am talking on a high dosses hrt, and doing that it is also very very dangerous, so i was thinking well ok, if i get a very very low dose of hrt, i can be on and off, and maybe keep all the changes i want, i mean phsycal changes and not killing my buddy, but i don´t know if this is something possible, so that is the reason i wanted to contacted you guys, well i will wait for your answer, xoxoxo, ciaooo
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 06, 2013, 05:37:37 PM
Hellow Shan, i agree, right now i definitely shoud be focuse about money, because this is what is affecting me, about my relation with my wife, to be honest, i don´t know what will happen, since we been separated twice, i don´t know what to expect, it is difficult for me to try to understand her, sometimes she makes me feel that she is not happy because of my GID, so i tell her if we should separate, then she agreed, and next day she says she loves me and don´t want me to go, and it is difficult for me, because so times i think, well great if we can be together, and i plan our future, but then, in a second everything comes apart and she is like ok, we better be apart, i know i can be happy with or without her, but i don´t think this relationship depends only on me, i try to be the best husband for her, she have other 2 kids, from different fathers, her fathers are not in the picture, they don´t even know the girls, they are my daughters, and they like me as her father, infact, they know about me and they accepted me, but again, i don´t know what my wife wants, she is not bisexual or lesbian, that´s why she is distant with me, we don´t even have sex now, no often, sometimes, and i try not to talk a lot about that, because if she doesn´t want to, i won´t insist, so there are a lot of ups and downs with our relation, and sometimes i don´t know what to expect, sometimes i am preparing myself to be alone, and when she says: i still love you, i am like really? it is so confussing, i love her, sometimes i try not feeling anything, but i know deep inside of me i love her, but sometimes i think it could be the best for us to be separated, obviously just not living in the same house, i will see her everyday, because when we are separated, i see my son everyday, right now i am a little bit calmer, i guess everything its going to be ok in some more months, i realize my biggest problem is money right now, and i hope i can get some within this days. When a woman marries a man she has the expectation for the man to remain her man. When the man decides to feminize then it becomes a source of fear and insecurity for the spouse and social anxiety and a possible source of embarrassment. That is what is going through her mind right now. Then when the man suddenly is unable to support the family due to a job loss, that just exacerbates her anxiety and makes matters much worse for her and the children. You could change this by getting a job and put this other issue on hold until you are financially more secure.
Back to feminization, wich part of the face do you think can make a change about appearing more female? i am thinking nose and lips, and depending your hair, maybe hairline, because i am thinking about just getting my nose and lips fix, and maybe my hairline, so the question is, if you could get FFS, and you want to pass as male and female what changes would you do? i think fixing the jaw will take the strenght of my face, and without that maybe i could not pass as a male, what´s your opinion? xoxoxo, ciaoo
I'm sorry, but I can't possibly give you any suggestions about this until you get a photograph up.
Hellow Shan, this is sooo truee, she always talks about the "man", one day i told her, are you with me just because my buddy? and then i laugh, i was trying to make her understand that i am not a monster, that i am the same person, no matter if i change my looks, i will still love you, but well, she is going through this too, and money is the answer, but sometimes my female side just want her to hug me and tell me everything its going to be ok, you know what i mean? when i am around guys i feel girlie, when i am around my wife i am like, how do i suppose to act? i can´t feel femenine because it is like comparing her natural femininity with my femininity, and i feel less girlie, and sometimes i don´t feel like a real man, i just feel like a scared of life man or something like that, the therapist told me to act more often as if i am wearing my female clothes, i mean my feminine side comes more alive when i wear my eyelashes and lipstick, i usually don´t use make up, just eyelashes, so i have to do my homework, that brings another question, did you feel the same when you were wearing something femenine? i feel like more outgoing, more secure about myself, sexy, beautifoul, and being a guy i am insecure, not outgoing, quiet, and i need to mix those feelings to become who i am, basically i was like dividing myself into 2 different personalities, the man and the woman, and i felt great when i discover that i just need to mix this 2 energys to become who i am, but i don´t know sometimes my girlie side it is just to loud that i need love, and sometimes i feel like i am the man and i don´t want nobody to f..k with me, hahaha, it is weir but funny at the same time, i haven´t learn to be neutral, and i think that is what i need to be calm down...
Take the time to do what is right for you.
If that means your buddy, your wife, your children, then take the time to think this all out.
Part of dysphoria can be the constant changing of how you feel about your personalities.
Doesn't mean that it is, but still, another thing to consider.
Shan is absolutely right about what could be going on between you and your wife.
That's part of thinking this through.
You don't have time to make mistakes, nobody wants that.
Your wife is trying to tell you that in the only way she knows how?
You have plenty of time to do what is going to be right for you.
I know you have been thinking about this for quite some time, but take more time if you need to.
We all make mistakes, we try to learn from each other.
Just like you're bringing a fresh perspective to this forum.
With HRT, there isn't a way to reliably tell before what changes you will get.
And you might have to look farther for a good Dr, one who knows what is current.
Just like getting a good surgeon. It pays to get the best you can get, what you can afford.
I would wait until the finances are in place to get what you want.
Like I said, it is your decision, and you decide what is right for you.
There are a lot of things to consider. It takes time to sort through it all.
Take the time to do it right.
We do understand how crazy it can all feel, we all get that way at one time or another, and usually more than once.
You deserve to be who you are, now just make sure that will also make you, your best.
Ativan
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 06, 2013, 06:58:50 PM
Hellow Shan, this is sooo truee, she always talks about the "man", one day i told her, are you with me just because my buddy? and then i laugh, i was trying to make her understand that i am not a monster, that i am the same person, no matter if i change my looks, i will still love you, but well, she is going through this too, and money is the answer, but sometimes my female side just want her to hug me and tell me everything its going to be ok, you know what i mean? when i am around guys i feel girlie, when i am around my wife i am like, how do i suppose to act? i can´t feel femenine because it is like comparing her natural femininity with my femininity, and i feel less girlie, and sometimes i don´t feel like a real man, i just feel like a scared of life man or something like that, the therapist told me to act more often as if i am wearing my female clothes, i mean my feminine side comes more alive when i wear my eyelashes and lipstick, i usually don´t use make up, just eyelashes, so i have to do my homework, that brings another question, did you feel the same when you were wearing something femenine? i feel like more outgoing, more secure about myself, sexy, beautifoul, and being a guy i am insecure, not outgoing, quiet, and i need to mix those feelings to become who i am, basically i was like dividing myself into 2 different personalities, the man and the woman, and i felt great when i discover that i just need to mix this 2 energys to become who i am, but i don´t know sometimes my girlie side it is just to loud that i need love, and sometimes i feel like i am the man and i don´t want nobody to f..k with me, hahaha, it is weir but funny at the same time, i haven´t learn to be neutral, and i think that is what i need to be calm down...
Discuss all of this with your therapist we're all different although we have similar issues, but I am not qualified to give you an honest assessment of your situation. I am wishing you well my friend, you are a worthy human being and God loves you! Keep in touch and let us know how it goes for you....xox ~ Shan ~
Thank you so much Shan and Ativan, both of you are great, maybe i sound like i am going to do something just tomorrow, but i don´t, sorry if i am writing and writing, it is difficult for me to talk about my issues with persons who don´t know what i feel, therapies are one day a week, to be honest i´ll go for therapy everyday hahahha, but they follow certain rules, so i have to go one day for week.
So yes, i am trying to do things slow, thinking over and over again, searching for alternatives, and trying to take intelligent decisions, so i hope everything gets better in the future.
For now i think i am done with hrt thoughts, i am considering some phytoestrogens just for the balance we need, but i will talk first with a Doctor, analysis, etc.. have a geat weekend guys, xoxoxo, ciaoo
I have been following the Ema, Shan, and Ativan conversation with great delight.
Ema, let me say,
Bienvenido a nuestra casa, aqui en Susan's.For our new members:
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Hellow Jamie, thanks, i´ve finish reading all the links, great info, i hope i did not violate certain rules hahaha, well so i gues maybe next week i could be ready to upload my photo, so you guys can help me out about my ffs in the future, like i said last message, maybe i sound like i am quite in a hurry with surgerys, but i´m not, maybe next year i would get my surgerys, but not for the moment, i still have to think about a lot of stuff, right now i am focussing on mixing my 2 energys, i mean male and female, and i hope this helps to calm my GID at least mentally, well that´s it for now, see you guys..
Hi ema,
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,98870.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,98870.0.html)
This is the link you might wish to use for opinions, ideas, and suggestions for presentation.
It's a nice way to try out different looks using things like hairstyles, makeup, and clothes.
Translations can be difficult, so I hope I'm pointing you in a good direction.
As far as I know, no, you haven't violated any of the TOS.
This is a fun link/topic. We have fun and enjoy the comments and input.
I think that as long as you are going to be taking your time with this, it's a good place to start.
We have some very amazingly androgynous presenting people.
There are many ways to achieve an androgynous presentation, FFS being only one of them.
Looking forward to seeing your pics, and I hope this helps you as much as it has for so many of the people here.
Because there are so many ways to be non-binary,
exploring what works for your feminine and masculine attributes is always good.
Have fun with it, it's a good way to lessen the difficult aspects of GID, and strengthen what is good for you.
Ativan
thank you ativan, i´ve uploaded some pics in that link, tell me what you think i should with my face, i mean ffs, i don´t need much, maybe i don´even need it, but i want to look a little more femenine, thanks for everything, ciaooo
Hellow guys, well on tuesday i went to my therapy session, well this week i had to deal more with my personal issues than my GID, economical problems and that sort of things, so basically we talk more about problems with my wife, also i told her about HRT, but we didn´t talk about it much, right now i am just thinking about hrt for quiting the noise of GID, so i have a question for you all.
There are a lot of vitamins and complements that stores like GNC sell without preescriptions, well some of them containg pythoestrogens, i was checking my mom´s pill, she is taking estrovan for menopause, so i was wondering, what if someone take this pills not everyday like the instructions says, i mean take one pill maybe 3 days a week, would that help? like i told you i don´t want to lose my erections, i just remember in the past i used to take some suplements "natural" that contained phytoestrogens, and i remember being happier, maybe it was the placebo effect maybe not, those pills suposeddly help increasing butt and breast, i bought them for butt augmentation, not for breast, well in my mind i think this products are less dangeruous than real estrogens, is that true? if i purchase a slimming pill for girls that contains vitamins and phytostrogens could that help with quieting the GID noise? i know i won´t have body changes, and if i can still have my erections, well basically that would be the way of being myself, i don´t want to take a lot of estrogen
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 12, 2013, 04:45:09 PM
Hellow guys, well on tuesday i went to my therapy session, well this week i had to deal more with my personal issues than my GID, economical problems and that sort of things, so basically we talk more about problems with my wife, also i told her about HRT, but we didn´t talk about it much, right now i am just thinking about hrt for quiting the noise of GID, so i have a question for you all.
There are a lot of vitamins and complements that stores like GNC sell without preescriptions, well some of them containg pythoestrogens, i was checking my mom´s pill, she is taking estrovan for menopause, so i was wondering, what if someone take this pills not everyday like the instructions says, i mean take one pill maybe 3 days a week, would that help? like i told you i don´t want to lose my erections, i just remember in the past i used to take some suplements "natural" that contained phytoestrogens, and i remember being happier, maybe it was the placebo effect maybe not, those pills suposeddly help increasing butt and breast, i bought them for butt augmentation, not for breast, well in my mind i think this products are less dangeruous than real estrogens, is that true? if i purchase a slimming pill for girls that contains vitamins and phytostrogens could that help with quieting the GID noise? i know i won´t have body changes, and if i can still have my erections, well basically that would be the way of being myself, i don´t want to take a lot of estrogen
Some people use them with some effect although my endocrinologist said that a person would have to take a large amount to achieve any substantial effect and anything in large amounts can be dangerous and even toxic to the human system. Best to get your doctor to prescribe a low-level estrogen, you can even get a pill cutter and cut pills in half.
Hellow Shan, thanks for your reply, i guess i will have to talk to a doctor right? i was trying to get answers before talking to a doctor, i was searching about hormone levels, it seems like some of us as androgyne persons, have different levels of e and t, so i was thinking something like this, in order to be balanced with hormones, wich levels of hormones do we need? i mean 50% and 50%? Or how do that works? I don´t know if Ativan mentionated some info about her endochrynologist, that her doc was more aware about people like us, were can i search that info? i want to read it, also, people in japan consume a lot of natural estrogen, that´s why they look so androgynous, so how can they be ok consuming natural estrogen without having healthy problems? maybe i just need like 5% more of E and that´s it, do you know what i mean? also maybe my GID noise is only in my mind, because i don´t really get that feeling, could someone describe what the GID noise is? i mean what do you think when you have it, how do you feel, etc.. Because for me the GID nose is being searching and searchin info about my gender identity, that was before i accept myself as an adrogyne, now i am searchin and searching about what would i do to change my appearance, my face and body, that´s it, is that the GID noise? This days i wasn´t so frustrated about having GID, i was more frustrated about economical issues, and problems with my wife, now i am more acceptable within myself, and i know that someday i will be who i am mental and physycally, i just have to wait to have the money to get my FFS, i know that, when i think about that, i mean surgerys, and i visualize myself, i feel comfortable, like happy, calmer, so i don´t know if that is part of the GID noise, could someone help me figuring out what the GID noise is?
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 12, 2013, 06:58:52 PM
Hellow Shan, thanks for your reply, i guess i will have to talk to a doctor right? i was trying to get answers before talking to a doctor, i was searching about hormone levels, it seems like some of us as androgyne persons, have different levels of e and t, so i was thinking something like this, in order to be balanced with hormones, wich levels of hormones do we need? i mean 50% and 50%? Or how do that works? I don´t know if Ativan mentionated some info about her endochrynologist, that her doc was more aware about people like us, were can i search that info? i want to read it, also, people in japan consume a lot of natural estrogen, that´s why they look so androgynous, so how can they be ok consuming natural estrogen without having healthy problems? maybe i just need like 5% more of E and that´s it, do you know what i mean? also maybe my GID noise is only in my mind, because i don´t really get that feeling, could someone describe what the GID noise is? i mean what do you think when you have it, how do you feel, etc.. Because for me the GID nose is being searching and searchin info about my gender identity, that was before i accept myself as an adrogyne, now i am searchin and searching about what would i do to change my appearance, my face and body, that´s it, is that the GID noise? This days i wasn´t so frustrated about having GID, i was more frustrated about economical issues, and problems with my wife, now i am more acceptable within myself, and i know that someday i will be who i am mental and physycally, i just have to wait to have the money to get my FFS, i know that, when i think about that, i mean surgerys, and i visualize myself, i feel comfortable, like happy, calmer, so i don´t know if that is part of the GID noise, could someone help me figuring out what the GID noise is?
Yes Emi. all of that which you are thinking and talking about here is what we call GID noise, it's the stuff in our brain that consumes us to the point that we are driven to do what we do, make physical changes in our personna. I can't give you answers about HRT only your doctor and counselor can do that effectively. You are very pretty for a male person, I suspect that you would make a beautiful woman, but in your culture it may not be what you would want to do. We are here as your extended family and want the very best for you. Hopefully you will find some meaningful employment because this should be your first goal along with your consideration for your espousa and your children.
Shan pretty much answered your questions as best we can here.
The amount and type of low dose HRT isn't enough to make noticeable changes for you.
To have a high enough HRT to do that, you can count on some loss of libido.
At low dose, maybe not, but over time it probably will be as inevitable.
The term 'noise' probably comes from it being a constant thought, like an actual noise.
For me it had an element of rage and anger in it. Low dose HRT is good for that.
Use google to find information.
You can get some idea of the hormone ranges and where the balances should be for you.
You do have to have bloodwork done to determine what your current levels are.
They ranges between male and female can overlap quite a bit, so there isn't a 'number' that defines it like you asked.
You can use google to find some sites, but be careful of the source when you read something.
There is some old and outdated and just wrong information out there.
Although nice to use as reference, full transition HRT is not the same as low dose. There is a little more to it.
It's not just a matter of taking less. It has to do with balance and what you want to achieve.
That's different for each person. One of the reasons we don't and won't give out dose information, here.
You could easily get the wrong dose information, or worse yet, try to speed things up with larger doses.
This doesn't work. There is only just so much that your body can use. The rest just puts dangerous strains on your systems.
It could kill you. Even low dose needs to be monitored. That's the first and most important thing you need to know.
You try to go it alone, you will be using sources that may or may not have real HRT stuff for you.
They may not even know from day to day what they are selling.
It is when people get into trouble, it's the main reason.
You need a good pharmacy and DR. You need to have a Dr keeping an eye on things for you.
Unless you have the equipment and a degree in several different areas, it's best to have the people who do, keep you safe.
I can't make a direct recommendation for you. Look at the HRT topics around here on the forum.
Use the search bar up near the top of the page. You should be gathering all the good information you can.
You need to make an informed decision for yourself, for what you want to do.
You need to know what you really want, make a flexible plan and use that information to make your decisions.
You're going to find answers to questions you haven't even considered, yet, by looking for and gathering information.
It's an important part of this, to know what you really want, and you won't know until you get some info together.
The more the better. If you have the time right now, that should be a priority. It should anyways.
This is your first step, getting ready, getting information together. It gets easier as you go.
Ativan
Hellow My dear friends, thanks a lot for everything, you are like my family, well so i think i have this noise, i´ve been thinking about that noise and maybe surgery will quiet it, that´s a good start i think.
About what i want, well basically i want to look more femenine, face, waist, hips and butt, my arms will slim down if i continue exercising, i was looking my body through the mirror, and i like my upper body, but mentally i feel like a little bit fat, i am not fat, and i know it i weight 65 kgs and my height is 1.65 cms, so i´m weighting what i´m suposed to weight, i will like to weight maybe 62 or 60 kgs, just to look a little bit more "fragile", i can reach that goal changing my food habits and exercising, so it´s not a big deal, about HRT, at first i was thinking about it to get the hourglass body, all the benefits from fat redistribution, skin, mental, etc.. but i am really stressed about the secondary effects, my libido, heartattacks, trombosis, etc.. And i really CAN´t balance the pros and the cons, because in my opinion, at least for me, there are more cons than pros, so that´s why i am thinking more about surgery.
So if someday i decide to take some E, i will do it like i told you, 3 days a week or something like that, or maybe consuming isoflavones, just for quieting GID purposes, not feminization purposes, obviously if i can have more butt, hips and legs, that would be awesome, but maybe i don´t even take pills because i am pretty comfortable with the size of my boobs, and i don´t see myself with boobs, i see myself with boobs but more in a fantasy world, not in the real world, do you know what i mean? so getting boobs will be like a con for hrt for me, im afraid of developing breats because my sister have big boobs, my unts, some cousins, so i think my boobs will grow within the first 2 months, and having boobs will be not compatible to act like a "guy" to society, because right now i am thinking on not changing my documents, my name or anything, also i not longer feel the need to "come out" to people, just my parents and people i care, not everyone, so i guess people would look at me and say something like "oh, he has a new look" he look prettier almost like a girl, and that kind of stuff, but for ME, i will be me, i won´t hide anymore, so this is the pros of being androgynes, we can be whatever we want, i consider myself ( obviously when finilize my transition) an angel, i think im a great person, a great dad and mom, an entrepenneur ( is this correct? ) and i will succeed in life.
I have good and bad news, my father offered me a job, 400 usd per month, i studied MEchatronical engineering, but all my life i was independent, i had my companies, bussineses etc.. When i started living with my "wife" ( i´m not really married) the economical issues began, so no one hires me because "my lack of experience", i hate that, but that is my reality, people think i don´t deserve a good salary, and think i don´t know anything, i feel like people treat me like if i had zero education, including my dad, but well, right now this oportunity is the only i have, so i have a job now "yeeeeei" ( sarcasm ) BUUT, he wants me to cut my haiiir!! that is the bad part, i was sooo depressed when he told me that, i was like, so WTF am i going to do with my GID?? Hair is a big deal when a guy wants to be androgyne, so i hope he can let that go, if not, what are your recommendations for my hair? my hair is curly, so there are not so much options to search about, so i´m open for good advices.
UUUhmm what else? well i really like doing bussineses, purchases/sales, import/export, but right now i don´t have money to start, the good part about this job, is that someday i will be the owner of the company ( legally it´s mine, but my dad uses my accounts and he takes the money) so i hope we can achieve better results, also i like clothing, i used to sell jeans, bags, also i like make ups hahah, i want to study some beauty, i like CNC and Laser machines, and my next project its about those machines, i want to produce different things, re-sell machines, mainteinance,etc.. Also i like psychollogy, but i´m 30 now, so i think i´d rather just take some courses and not the entire career, i really like fashion too, and also i was thinking on androgynous clothing, i mean produce it, jeans and t-shirts, so i really have a lot of projects in my mind, and some days i really can´t focus on any of them, but i know that my GID is helping a lot with my focus problems, and when i get done with therapy i will make my dreams come true, well that was a little bit more of myself, see you soon, kisses, ciaoo
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 13, 2013, 11:51:12 PM
i guess people would look at me and say something like "oh, he has a new look" he look prettier almost like a girl, and that kind of stuff, but for ME, i will be me, i won´t hide anymore, so this is the pros of being androgynes, we can be whatever we want, i consider myself ( obviously when finilize my transition) an angel, i think im a great person, a great dad and mom, an entrepenneur ( is this correct? ) and i will succeed in life.
I agree, androgyne will allow you to be either male or female appearing at will although surgeries have some potential setbacks if there is an infection or a botched job, so you need to be sure of who it is that's doing the work and what is that person's success and failure rate.
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 13, 2013, 11:51:12 PM
I have good and bad news, my father offered me a job, 400 usd per month, i studied MEchatronical engineering, but all my life i was independent, i had my companies, bussineses etc.. When i started living with my "wife" ( i´m not really married) the economical issues began, so no one hires me because "my lack of experience", i hate that, but that is my reality, people think i don´t deserve a good salary, and think i don´t know anything, i feel like people treat me like if i had zero education, including my dad, but well, right now this oportunity is the only i have, so i have a job now "yeeeeei" ( sarcasm ) BUUT, he wants me to cut my haiiir!! that is the bad part, i was sooo depressed when he told me that, i was like, so WTF am i going to do with my GID?? Hair is a big deal when a guy wants to be androgyne, so i hope he can let that go, if not, what are your recommendations for my hair? my hair is curly, so there are not so much options to search about, so i´m open for good advices.
So your father who is running a business doesn't want you to be the topic of conversation or to possibly drive away customers because you don't look really masculine. You need to reach a compromise with him and perhaps agree to wear your hair up under a hat or something like that. Good you have a job though, and so it doesn't pay what you are worth, you have to start somewhere and jobs are a limited resource in the world these days.
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 13, 2013, 11:51:12 PM
UUUhmm what else? well i really like doing bussineses, purchases/sales, import/export, but right now i don´t have money to start, the good part about this job, is that someday i will be the owner of the company ( legally it´s mine, but my dad uses my accounts and he takes the money) so i hope we can achieve better results, also i like clothing, i used to sell jeans, bags, also i like make ups hahah, i want to study some beauty, i like CNC and Laser machines, and my next project its about those machines, i want to produce different things, re-sell machines, mainteinance,etc.. Also i like psychollogy, but i´m 30 now, so i think i´d rather just take some courses and not the entire career, i really like fashion too, and also i was thinking on androgynous clothing, i mean produce it, jeans and t-shirts, so i really have a lot of projects in my mind, and some days i really can´t focus on any of them, but i know that my GID is helping a lot with my focus problems, and when i get done with therapy i will make my dreams come true, well that was a little bit more of myself, see you soon, kisses, ciaoo
Yes you most certainly do have the entrepreneurial spirit, without plans and dreams we amount to nothing!
Hellow Shan, yes i´m going to be with the best surgeon here in Mexico, he specializes in Feminization surgerys up and bottoms, i have a good friend of mine who went to him, so no big deal for that.
About my that, well basically he´s been that way with me since forever, he don´t like my fashion, he want me to dress like a 40 year old guy, and i refuse, i don´t like to be seen as an older person, i mean im 30, why should i want to look like an older person? I don´t know why he´s been doing that since i was in high school, i don´t think he told me that just because my feminine appearance, maybe yes maybe not, but he told me that because he thinks people see guys like me like a not serious person, so maybe that´s why he told me that, but well i´ll have to do it, i don´t have another choice.
About other jobs, my reality isn´t that way, i´ve been looking for jobs since the first months of 2012, it´s been a year now, and no one gave me an oportunity, and this situation keeps me frustrated, it is part of my depression, it´s not fair for me, but that´s just the way it is, i hate when people with no studys have great jobs, they earn like 1000 usd per month, and they have no studies, i don´t know is this is just bad luck, but well, now i have a job, and i hope my dad helps me, i hope i can earn more with him in the future.
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 14, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
About my that, well basically he´s been that way with me since forever, he don´t like my fashion, he want me to dress like a 40 year old guy, and i refuse, i don´t like to be seen as an older person, i mean im 30, why should i want to look like an older person? I don´t know why he´s been doing that since i was in high school, i don´t think he told me that just because my feminine appearance, maybe yes maybe not, but he told me that because he thinks people see guys like me like a not serious person, so maybe that´s why he told me that, but well i´ll have to do it, i don´t have another choice.
He probably just wants you to be a macho male guy, unfortunately for him you are your own unique person and he isn't going to get his wish. Hopefully for you both he will get over it and realize that he can't make you into the image of himself, it doesn't work that way.
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 14, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
About other jobs, my reality isn´t that way, i´ve been looking for jobs since the first months of 2012, it´s been a year now, and no one gave me an oportunity, and this situation keeps me frustrated, it is part of my depression, it´s not fair for me, but that´s just the way it is, i hate when people with no studys have great jobs, they earn like 1000 usd per month, and they have no studies, i don´t know is this is just bad luck, but well, now i have a job, and i hope my dad helps me, i hope i can earn more with him in the future.
No I don't believe it was bad luck, we all know that life is unfair. I don't know how many times I have been passed over in favor of an incompetent person, and how many times I have had to compensate for the messes created by incompetent people who got much more pay than I did. I would come up with money saving or money making ideas and the incompetent person would take the credit and get the raise in salary. That's the way of the world we live in, but you can always shine brightly at whatever you do and rather than fussing about how little you make, try and show your employer how valuable you are to the company's success and make it so that he wants to promote you. Make his company profitable!
"Be so good they can't ignore you" ~Steve Martin
Thanks for your words my friends, well i haven´t thought about my dad being with me the way you told me, and that it is the biggest posibility, or the big answer i guess, in the past i was like ok, my dad doesn´t love me, because he is not proud of me, and now i think maybe he wants me to be like anybody else, and i hope in the future he gets the point, i will try my best to make a profitable company, because at the end of the day, that company is mine, im trying to think about that way, not like an employee, more like an owner, i also have to teach him, that this days are soo way different than the past, the things that work in the past no longer work today, and he gotta understand that, i am feeling a little bit better, today i was playing with my hair, and without notice my dad told me, ohh when did you go to get a haircut? and i was inside of me like yeeeeei, if i use this look, i don´t have to cut my hair, and that was my biggest concern, so i am feeling a little better thank God, my mom refuses to understand my androgyness, yesterday was the second talk we had, i have to be patience, the good part is that she keep on telling me that she loves me, and thats the best i can get, she think i am confused, because she says that she lived with me forever and she didn´t notice anything wrong with me, or anything feminine, so basically she thinks this is just suggestions, she also thinks that when i talk to people like me, they make me think what im thinking, that isn´t true, of course, all of us have inspirations, right now my inspirations are guys like andrej peijic, and a lot other pretty guys, in the past my inspiration was watching MTF transition via youtube, but that is just an inspiration, so i have to be patient, at least she didn´t reject me.
About my girlfriend or wife, today she arrived, she was on a trip since last wednesday, i didn´t feel anything, maybe because i´m still not able to forget our problems, i hope everything is ok now that i have a job, and i hope she understands more about me, if not we all know what will happen, so right now i am focussing on getting money to my surgerys, i am searching and searching about surgeries, and also i want to ask something, is someone in this forum been throug surgery? FFS, liposuction, butt augmentation, etc..?? How did that go? i want butt augmentation with my own fat, about implants i just need it on my hips, i don´t think there´s a lot of problem with nose jobs, and lip jobs, so i´m scared a little bit about the hip augmentation, but i´m not scared about the other parts i want to change, i´ve been talking with Dr. Lazaro Cardenas, he is so famous around the transgender comunity, and a friend of mine went to him for FFS, and everything was great, so i hope everything gets better and better, if i think about this week advances, i am advancing pretty ok, i have a job now, i know what i want now, and i´m starting to produce some money to make my dreams come true, i think when i´m done with this, i will be a more succesfull person, a better person, happier, calmer, social, caring, that is my goal, to be happy with myself, and if im happy i can be succesfull, and if im succesfull, well life will be easier, so that´s if for now, have a great day my friends!! kisses, ciaoo
Looks like you're rolling now Emi, you have things sorted out in your mind and now the world looks like a brighter place. Kudos Emi! :eusa_clap:
Hellow Shan, yes i gues im rolling now, well i got into a huge fight with my girlfriend last wednesday, she got frustrated because i told her why did she took some money from my pants, and she overreacted, she told me that she was going to leave the house, etc.. Then she told me something very important, " why didn´t you tell me about you? Why did you had a baby with me? you lie to me!! I don´t accept you, you are a woman, not a man!" and bla bla bla, i haven´t been that angry since a long long time, i guess she is the only person who had make me feel so so bad, then she left, and i arrive to my job ( my parent´s house) and there was my mom, so i just began to cry, that was the better part of this, because my mom is being so so so great with me, so we talk about my girlfriend, and my mom was like, why is she being so not understanding? she was the one who wanted to live with you, and that situation opened my eyes.
Now my girlfriend is acting like if she cares for me, i know she is lying, but i´ll try to act normal, but now i know that there is no future for us, maybe like friends, but like a couple there is no chance, well a day before that i went to my therapist, she told me the same thing you told me Shan, that i´m doing great, i´m rolling, she told me to keep going, and that make me feel great.
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 20, 2013, 05:41:59 PM
Now my girlfriend is acting like if she cares for me, i know she is lying, but i´ll try to act normal, but now i know that there is no future for us, maybe like friends, but like a couple there is no chance, well a day before that i went to my therapist, she told me the same thing you told me Shan, that i´m doing great, i´m rolling, she told me to keep going, and that make me feel great.
This is to be expected when you look so completely effeminate already and have decided to enhance it even more so with surgery. Looking ahead into your future I see the writing on the wall for you my friend, welcome to the world of womanhood, this site is rife with similar stories, it's just a part of the process.
Hellow Shan, forgot to tell you, she told me im a woman, and i have a beard and my eyebrows are all grown up, i just told her, you should seek for professional help, because right now i look like a man, and i look like when we first met, that was the weirdest part of the discussion, and she also thinks like if i don´t do nothing about my GID we will be ok, she doesn´t remembered the first year when we had the same issues and she didn´t know about me then, she was always the one who wanted out, andi was always that wanted to make things work, i´m tired of fighting for her goals, she was the one who have always wanted a family, not me, don´t get it the bad way, i love my son, but in the past i remember always saying i won´t get married and wont have kids, and she was the one who wanted all of that, and it hurts me a lot, because i tried to make her happy, i tried to be her dreamed family, but she doesn´t seem to bother, she´s great playing the victim role, and i bought that role for a long time, not anymore.
About GID issues Shan, how do you deal when sometimes you feel like ok, maybe i should not transition? The las 3 days, in the morning when i wake up i feel like that, but then during the day i feel like, ok, i totally should do it, that happened to me in the past too, but i don´t like that feeling, i know i´m scared, that always happen, like when you sell your car, you want to sell it, but when someone buys it, you are like, oohh, why did i sold it? you know what i mean? So i really don´t enjoy this feeling, because it makes me think in a bad way, not in a good way, makes me doubt about everything.
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 20, 2013, 09:01:08 PM
Hellow Shan, forgot to tell you, she told me im a woman, and i have a beard and my eyebrows are all grown up, i just told her, you should seek for professional help, because right now i look like a man, and i look like when we first met, that was the weirdest part of the discussion, and she also thinks like if i don´t do nothing about my GID we will be ok, she doesn´t remembered the first year when we had the same issues and she didn´t know about me then, she was always the one who wanted out, andi was always that wanted to make things work, i´m tired of fighting for her goals, she was the one who have always wanted a family, not me, don´t get it the bad way, i love my son, but in the past i remember always saying i won´t get married and wont have kids, and she was the one who wanted all of that, and it hurts me a lot, because i tried to make her happy, i tried to be her dreamed family, but she doesn´t seem to bother, she´s great playing the victim role, and i bought that role for a long time, not anymore. Sometimes women think that if they have a baby for you that it will somehow make you change and that everything will be fine, but it's not very realistic and in fact is very manipulative behavior. Somehow since you have laid with her even though it was her idea, that you are now obligated. Unfortunately no-one can make someone else happy, happiness is a condition that comes from within, they are either happy or they are sad, but it is based on their own feelings that they themselves have set themself up for. We're all subject to that!
About GID issues Shan, how do you deal when sometimes you feel like ok, maybe i should not transition? The las 3 days, in the morning when i wake up i feel like that, but then during the day i feel like, ok, i totally should do it, that happened to me in the past too, but i don´t like that feeling, i know i´m scared, that always happen, like when you sell your car, you want to sell it, but when someone buys it, you are like, oohh, why did i sold it? you know what i mean? So i really don´t enjoy this feeling, because it makes me think in a bad way, not in a good way, makes me doubt about everything. Let me tell you honey, you are not alone, we all go through that and eventually it becomes so intense that we have to deal with it, either by a full transition or by finding that place where that "noise" subsides and we can be at peace within ourselves.
Thank Good!! i found you guys, so the best part of this noise is that i know someday it will go away, so i have to be consciuos about that, and don´t let myself think beyond that feeling.
Talking about this issue, please Shan and Ativan, tell me how did you felt after your HRT doses, i mean did the noise went down? Now that you really live like you suposed to live your entire life, are you more happy? Or do you still get that noise? Do you regret your transition? Would you do it again?
Shan, how do you feel now that you have your breasts, do you feel better? In my case that would be hips, waist and face, i know i won´t regret it, but you know how this goes, sometimes i feel like this is just a dream, and maybe i should stay as i am now, but then i realize that i need some changes to be comfortable, and to have a balance between my mind and body, so right now i know this is something normal, also it came to my mind that my GID is more about "femenine vanity" i mean it is my body that i want to change it, and my body makes me feel more like a girl or like a man, you know what i mean? well right now my face is doing that part, yesterday i shave my beard, and i was more like in my girlie mode hahaha, and that is ok, i don´t hate that, but sometimes i wish i can be exactly in the middle, i mean mixing femenine and masculine feelings always, i think being that way would make things easier for me, but i know that i have to act certain ways with society and clients, so i guess i will be genderbending most of my days, but when people get to know me better i could be myself, and not overacting my male side or girl side, also i am thinking seriuosly about my future, and i want to learn something about make up, hair, nails, eyelashes, something girls do, and start a bussines about it too, and also having the company i"have" now, but i should talk with the therapis about that, because sometimes i don´t see my vocation, and i want to do things i enjoy, all my life, my bussineses were around the money i could earn, not around doing something i enjoy, i enjoy making money, but there´s have to be something that can make me earn money and also make me enjoy doing that. The sad part is that i like a lot of different things, this is a resume of what projects i´ve been thinking all my life:
Clothes: Wholesale mostly jeans, distribution
DTG( direct to garment) printer: I wanted to buy this printer, that way i can produce my own t-shirts, also i can sell the printing service, and also i can print in different materials like, wood, acrylic, caps, etc..
Laser machine: I could produce unlimited varietys of products, from wood, acrylic, plastic, etc.. I can produce iphone covers, toys, furniture, kitchens, presents, etc..
3d printer: This machine i like it for educational purposes, i would like to have a little school, and teach about this technology, also i can produce different things and resell them.
CNC router: Well this is basically the same as the laser machine, and it fit the same bussines.
Car movie theater: I have a contact in Germany, and they sell huge screens, and i was thinking about doing a car movie theater here.
Androgynous clothing: Design and manufacture jeans and shirts for people like us
Gadgets: I would like to import some of the newest gadgets around the world, mos of them are focus on videogames consoles, mini robots, etc..
i Hungry: A restaurant, burguers etc..
Beauty Saloon: Nail printer, minkys eyelashes ( permanent), hair coloring ( i think i won´t be that great being a stylist but i can contract people)
Nail printer: If i do not have my own saloon, i will like to have the distribution of this printer around my country, also with mainteinance service.
Arcade: Well right now i am "producing" in a small scale some arcade fightsticks, and i wanted to produce arcade cabinets as well, but people here in Mexico don´t pay for quality, and right now that bussines is dead.
Psychollogy: Well i guess this won´t happen, i will like to help people like us, therapy and that kind of stuff, but i didn´t study pschology, and i´m 30 now.
This are some of my ideas, the bad part about this ideas, is that most of them need designing, and i don´t even know how to draw haaha, i have great ideas, but i´m not a talented drawer, but i can search for courses. Also in the future if everything goes as i planed, i should have some houses, and rent them.
Oh i forgot to ask you, i remember that i get bored of something years later, elementary school i wanted to be the best goalkeeper, and i did, then i like skating, and quit soccer, then i became a really good skater ( i skated like 6 years) then i got my first car, and i really like music, so i learn how to install stereos, amplifiers, etc.. and then my cars where the more SEEN around my city, everyone knew my cars, then i started my first bussines, i got to be a good company, then i started selling jeans, and quit the other company, so the point is, because that my girlfriend and my first therapist thought my GID was like an obsession, because if i do something, i want to be the best doing it, so i hope this doesn´t happen with my GID, i know i want to be a sexy guy and a sexy girl, i mean a sexy ME hahahah, at the other hand i didn´t thought this part of me is obsession, i feel like i am an evolving human being, that´s why i don´t stay doing the same things forever, but i want your opinnions, also i´m a musician, i write and sing hiphop songs, when i started i was rapping like Will smith in the 90´s hahaha, now i can rap better than famous people from my country, i didn´t know how to rap, so i learned, so that talks so much about myself, i can do anything, but knowing that, it only applies to things i´m interested it, so that´s why i need vocational orientation for bussineses, so i hope you can help me Shan and Ativan, and all of you guys, have a great day, xoxoxo...
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 21, 2013, 12:30:45 PM
Thank Good!! i found you guys, so the best part of this noise is that i know someday it will go away, so i have to be consciuos about that, and don´t let myself think beyond that feeling.
Talking about this issue, please Shan and Ativan, tell me how did you felt after your HRT doses, i mean did the noise went down? Now that you really live like you suposed to live your entire life, are you more happy? Or do you still get that noise? Do you regret your transition? Would you do it again? Hi Ema, I have no regrets and I would do it again and go all the way with it if I was younger, in my 20's or 30's rather than 70, and if I didn't have a wife from a long term marriage that is depending on me. But still as an androgynous person on HRT it was the thing for me to do because it shut down the noise, changed me from a very edgy sometimes belligerent individual into a much more calm and peaceful person. I would do it again in a heartbeat!
Shan, how do you feel now that you have your breasts, do you feel better? In my case that would be hips, waist and face, i know i won´t regret it, but you know how this goes, sometimes i feel like this is just a dream, and maybe i should stay as i am now, but then i realize that i need some changes to be comfortable, and to have a balance between my mind and body, so right now i know this is something normal, also it came to my mind that my GID is more about "femenine vanity" i mean it is my body that i want to change it, and my body makes me feel more like a girl or like a man, you know what i mean? Yes I understand the need for these changes to be congruent physically with how you feel in your mind and heart.well right now my face is doing that part, yesterday i shave my beard, and i was more like in my girlie mode hahaha, and that is ok, i don´t hate that, but sometimes i wish i can be exactly in the middle, i mean mixing femenine and masculine feelings always, i think being that way would make things easier for me, but i know that i have to act certain ways with society and clients, so i guess i will be genderbending most of my days, but when people get to know me better i could be myself, and not overacting my male side or girl side, also i am thinking seriuosly about my future, and i want to learn something about make up, hair, nails, eyelashes, something girls do, and start a bussines about it too, and also having the company i"have" now, but i should talk with the therapis about that, because sometimes i don´t see my vocation, and i want to do things i enjoy, all my life, my bussineses were around the money i could earn, not around doing something i enjoy, i enjoy making money, but there´s have to be something that can make me earn money and also make me enjoy doing that. The sad part is that i like a lot of different things, this is a resume of what projects i´ve been thinking all my life:
Clothes: Wholesale mostly jeans, distribution
DTG( direct to garment) printer: I wanted to buy this printer, that way i can produce my own t-shirts, also i can sell the printing service, and also i can print in different materials like, wood, acrylic, caps, etc..
Laser machine: I could produce unlimited varietys of products, from wood, acrylic, plastic, etc.. I can produce iphone covers, toys, furniture, kitchens, presents, etc..
3d printer: This machine i like it for educational purposes, i would like to have a little school, and teach about this technology, also i can produce different things and resell them.
CNC router: Well this is basically the same as the laser machine, and it fit the same bussines.
Car movie theater: I have a contact in Germany, and they sell huge screens, and i was thinking about doing a car movie theater here.
Androgynous clothing: Design and manufacture jeans and shirts for people like us
Gadgets: I would like to import some of the newest gadgets around the world, mos of them are focus on videogames consoles, mini robots, etc..
i Hungry: A restaurant, burguers etc..
Beauty Saloon: Nail printer, minkys eyelashes ( permanent), hair coloring ( i think i won´t be that great being a stylist but i can contract people)
Nail printer: If i do not have my own saloon, i will like to have the distribution of this printer around my country, also with mainteinance service.
Arcade: Well right now i am "producing" in a small scale some arcade fightsticks, and i wanted to produce arcade cabinets as well, but people here in Mexico don´t pay for quality, and right now that bussines is dead.
Psychollogy: Well i guess this won´t happen, i will like to help people like us, therapy and that kind of stuff, but i didn´t study pschology, and i´m 30 now.
This are some of my ideas, the bad part about this ideas, is that most of them need designing, and i don´t even know how to draw haaha, i have great ideas, but i´m not a talented drawer, but i can search for courses. Also in the future if everything goes as i planed, i should have some houses, and rent them.
Well you certainly don't seem to be at a loss for some really good ideas, all you need is some financial backing to get started!
Oh i forgot to ask you, i remember that i get bored of something years later, elementary school i wanted to be the best goalkeeper, and i did, then i like skating, and quit soccer, then i became a really good skater ( i skated like 6 years) then i got my first car, and i really like music, so i learn how to install stereos, amplifiers, etc.. and then my cars where the more SEEN around my city, everyone knew my cars, then i started my first bussines, i got to be a good company, then i started selling jeans, and quit the other company, so the point is, because that my girlfriend and my first therapist thought my GID was like an obsession, because if i do something, i want to be the best doing it, so i hope this doesn´t happen with my GID, i know i want to be a sexy guy and a sexy girl, i mean a sexy ME hahahah, at the other hand i didn´t thought this part of me is obsession, i feel like i am an evolving human being, that´s why i don´t stay doing the same things forever, but i want your opinnions, also i´m a musician, i write and sing hiphop songs, when i started i was rapping like Will smith in the 90´s hahaha, now i can rap better than famous people from my country, i didn´t know how to rap, so i learned, so that talks so much about myself, i can do anything, but knowing that, it only applies to things i´m interested it, so that´s why i need vocational orientation for bussineses, so i hope you can help me Shan and Ativan, and all of you guys, have a great day, xoxoxo... Hey amigo, you will have to figure out what will be the most marketable, profitable thing that you would enjoy doing and apply yourself to it vigorously and you will be successful.
Learn more about business working with your Father.
If you are teaching him new things, I'll bet there are a few old tricks he can teach you to.
Never underestimate an older person, their experiences in life are much more than a younger person.
This is where wisdom comes in. You can't be taught it, but you can learn it by watching and listening.
I know that sounds weird.
You can't just take a lifetime of experience and bring it all together in a way to teach.
You can run, but he knows which way. Kind of like that.
But it's a two way street for you two, it sounds like.
Experience trumps youthful energy every time.
You have products in mind, now learn how to run a business.
I don't have much in the way of physical changes to my male body.
But the really low dose HRT that I take is enough to quiet the noise.
So I can think about other things without the sudden bursts of thought about it.
I mainly present as male, but I have really long hair. From the front, I look very male.
From behind,... it depends on what I'm wearing I suppose.
I don't care for the way I look, but I accept it.
My attitude is not male or female, not masculine nor feminine.
I have traits that I share with people who are masculine and feminine, but I am not either or both.
I'm simply non-binary.
There are so many things in my life that are more important to me than my gender.
Would I do it again? I suppose, I'm doing it right now.
I wish all of this would have been available to me when I was young.
I would still think of myself the same way, but I would look feminine.
It's my only real regret about it, other than the attitude I went through life with.
The noise.
It brings up feelings of anger and rage that aren't appropriate for the situations.
The HRT that I use has brought it under control.
Sometimes I think about using higher doses, and my Dr would let me without question.
Actually she questions my desire to be only on the lowest doses.
But that's just out of her nature and curiosity.
I don't look anything like how I feel.
I know it's me in the mirror, but I don't recognize the image as really being me.
How I should look, for myself? I don't know... More feminine, yet not completely.
I think that would be right, but I really don't dwell on it that much.
It just brings the noise back. Yep, it's still there, just at a much lower level.
I deal with it.
There are other things that are intertwined with it, that HRT isn't going to do anything to help.
There is much work to do in my reality, it is a stress to deal with others at times.
But I have so much experience in doing that, I have been for decades.
Don't let your gender run your life. You own it, you run it.
It's important to you, but not so much to anyone else. Is theirs that important to you?
Let it be that part of your life that it is, just like you do for other things about yourself.
Like your desire to be the best.
Don't let your worries *the noise* about your gender interfere with just getting on with life and enjoying it.
Be the best.
Be so good they can't ignore you.... Work on that noise, do what you need to quiet it down.
Just be who you are, be yourself. Don't worry so much about how you look.
It's you that people see, not what your body looks like. Be that good.
When you let yourself come through, it changes how you look.
How you carry yourself, how you smile, laugh,...everything.
You will look different to others because that is what they will see.
Right now they see you fussing about your gender.
Although they don't know that it's what they see, but they see something.
Get the noise level down, get your finances in order and be the best father that you can be.
The rewards will come along on their own.
If you get the business running so good that you have extra money,... then you can think about what you want to do.
There are so many things that you do in living your life that don't have anything to do with your gender.
There will be more.
But you will always have your gender, regardless of the twists and turns you make.
See, this is how I live.
I have always been better, the best at whatever I am doing.
At least I am for myself. And that's what counts the most.
But I lived a wild and unpredictable life because of the noise.
The thoughts that I know I'm different, but what do I do with it?
With the noise quieted down, I am better at being the best I can.
I can let my gender just flow through me, without it being a question in my thinking.
I know people are aware of it. And if they aren't, that doesn't matter.
I am being more of me than I ever have.
So take care of business, get your house in order, and learn how to make the business better.
Talk to your therapist, see if you can get some form of low dose HRT, just to see if it helps.
If it does, good.
Work hard, learn.
Earn enough by being the best to get whatever you want with your looks.
But don't let that run your life.
It's just a part of you.
It's your gender.
There's a lot more to you than that.
Ativan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XpaOjMXyJGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XpaOjMXyJGk)
This is kind of what I am talking about.
About letting yourself be who you are.
We all do this, the same thing as the video.
I am very guilty of thinking I look horrible.
I am assured I'm not, but it's how I feel sometimes.
'The Noise' comes through in how you look.
Now, I look different, I see it in pictures.
Not physically, but the attitude comes through.
I guess for me, I don't look as sad as I did before HRT.
Ativan
Hellow Shan and Ativan, thank you so much, both of you are great, i love you!!!
Yes i want to learn and learn more about life, bussines, i want my dad to teach me, i just want to be happy, and i am feeling more happy now, i guess accepting myself as an adrogyne, accepting the fact that i am not what my girlfriend thinks i am, i am getting more comfortable, about low HRT, well to be honest i don´t think about it that much, and i realize that my GID comes camouflaged with vanity, i was watching some pictures of my past, because i was wondering why i wasn´t used to smile at photos, and i realize that some parts of my face are the ones who make me feel that, as a boy or as a girl, but i have less issues being a girl than a boy photographic speaking, so my GID isn´t that hard like it used to be, at least for now, so i see my GID like a fight with my face in the mirror, i just like my front, not my profile, just the front, about my inner feelings about being a girl, there still strong, but i realize that this girl lives with this boy too, so now they only have to get along, and become great friends, and stop fighting each other, i don´t want to divide them as 2 personalities as i did unconsciously in the past, because those 2 energys make me who i am, so my soft side has to be present, and also my strong side has to be present, and when they do, i am me, so right now i am trying to mix this, it is not easy, but not difficult either, it´s something new, and i have to get used to it, so i guess my GID it isnt that strong, i mean, i think i can handle it, right now thinking about finishing my transition keeps the noise quiet, sometimes i exagerate things, this morning i woke up, and i was like oh, should i transition? and like 10 mins later, im ok with it, in the past i was with that noise 24/7, so i guess i am learning to lessen the noise thinking positive about that, and now i realize that in the past i was dealing 24/7 with this noise because i wasnt accepting it, now that i know that i have GID, and that i accept it, it´s different, i hope when i finish my transition that noise no longer exists, i know it will go, and i want to believe in that, but sometimes i think about it, and when i think about it, the term HRT comes into my head, and when HRT comes into my head, i am like, HEELL nooo, surgery will give you the effects you REALLY want, and not the ones you don´t want, so that´s my life hahaha.
Hellow Ativan, well that video made me cry hahaha, it is so true, how we always criticize ourselves, and what keep my attention of the video is how other people see us better than we do, but i don´t know how my GID is related to my story about beauty, i´m the opossite of this persons on the video, i cried because i would like to hear that from people i know, you know what i mean? I´ve been always aware about my pretty face, but people get it wrong, for example, a friend of my girlfriend told her i look skinny, but in the bad way, she ask if i was sick, a friend of my dad told me that too, and i don´t see myself as sick or so so skinny, i have friends who are really skinny, and don´t look sick to me at all, i prefer seeing my self at the mirror rather than photos, because photos are not my friends hahaha, maybe is my GID, i know i´m not ugly, i know im a pretty girl and a handsome boy, but i don´t look like i wanted to look, and i´ve always think that way, i never liked photos, when i first realize i was different, that i thought i was transgender it was seeing myself through the mirror, and photos, my eyes express so much being a girl than being a man, why? i don´t know, i see my pics as a girl, and i see a sensitive person, caring, when i see my guy photos, i just see something like anger, like a macho wanna be, but NOT ME, i did it just to send my photos to girls, and trying to flirt you know what i mean? and my girlie pics are for me, so that day when i could see the difference was the day i realize im a transandrogyne, it is so easy for me to tell my girlfriend to love herself, she now feels she is fat, she is a little bit overweight, but i still see her sexy, and no matter how i tell her she won´t quit having thos thoughts, that applies for me too, like when you guys told me i am so beautifoul, i know guys tell me that ( i mean with my girlie photos) but girls don´t, as for my boy photos, some girls tell me im handsome, but it is like if that is not enough for me you know? because i want to transmit myself physically too, so that´s why i want FFS, because i need my face to be like i am INSIDE too, right now my face with beard is a man, without beard im still a man, if i use make up or eyelashes my face is like a girl, but i DOn´t want that, i want to be me inside and out, i don´t want make up or eyelashes, or clothes to make me feel like i am, my inside is natural, and right now my outside it´s not natural, i know my insecurities come from my past and not only from GID, i think its a 50/50 issue about that, right now i feel i´m winning about the first 50% of my past insecurities, and now i have to deal with my GID insecurities, what do you think ativan? Thanks for everything I LOOVEE YOOUUU xoxoxo HUGS
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 21, 2013, 04:57:49 PM
Hellow Shan and Ativan, thank you so much, both of you are great, i love you!!!
Yes i want to learn and learn more about life, bussines, i want my dad to teach me, i just want to be happy, and i am feeling more happy now, i guess accepting myself as an adrogyne, accepting the fact that i am not what my girlfriend thinks i am, i am getting more comfortable, about low HRT, well to be honest i don´t think about it that much, and i realize that my GID comes camouflaged with vanity, i was watching some pictures of my past, because i was wondering why i wasn´t used to smile at photos, and i realize that some parts of my face are the ones who make me feel that, as a boy or as a girl, but i have less issues being a girl than a boy photographic speaking, so my GID isn´t that hard like it used to be, at least for now, so i see my GID like a fight with my face in the mirror, i just like my front, not my profile, just the front, about my inner feelings about being a girl, there still strong, but i realize that this girl lives with this boy too, so now they only have to get along, and become great friends, and stop fighting each other, i don´t want to divide them as 2 personalities as i did unconsciously in the past, because those 2 energys make me who i am, so my soft side has to be present, and also my strong side has to be present, and when they do, i am me, so right now i am trying to mix this, it is not easy, but not difficult either, it´s something new, and i have to get used to it, so i guess my GID it isnt that strong, i mean, i think i can handle it, right now thinking about finishing my transition keeps the noise quiet, sometimes i exagerate things, this morning i woke up, and i was like oh, should i transition? and like 10 mins later, im ok with it, in the past i was with that noise 24/7, so i guess i am learning to lessen the noise thinking positive about that, and now i realize that in the past i was dealing 24/7 with this noise because i wasnt accepting it, now that i know that i have GID, and that i accept it, it´s different, i hope when i finish my transition that noise no longer exists, i know it will go, and i want to believe in that, but sometimes i think about it, and when i think about it, the term HRT comes into my head, and when HRT comes into my head, i am like, HEELL nooo, surgery will give you the effects you REALLY want, and not the ones you don´t want, so that´s my life hahaha.
You are loved and appreciated here as well Ema, I think that it helps all of us when we see our relationship to each other as if we are members of an extended family, caring and looking out for one another as sisters and brothers do in a close family.Hugs ~ Shan ~
Ema, Ativan and Shantel are two of the most knowledgeable and caring people you could have met on this site.
I have said before, and I will repeat it now, they are like gurus to me. I could just sit and listen to the wisdom and truth and experience, all day long.
Jamie, yes i knoow!! they are great, im very thankfull!! love u ALL!!! xoxoxo
Thanks for everything
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on April 21, 2013, 12:30:45 PM
Talking about this issue, please Shan and Ativan, tell me how did you felt after your HRT doses, i mean did the noise went down? Now that you really live like you suposed to live your entire life, are you more happy? Or do you still get that noise? Do you regret your transition? Would you do it again?
I started HRT almost five months ago (also electrolysis around then). The noise went way down, almost immediately, which I attribute to having made a decision to move forward. I'd already been living openly for a while before that, which had helped my overall feelings considerably, but that hadn't gotten rid of the noise. I'm very happy with the changes I'm experiencing from HRT, both physical and especially emotional. There's still occasional noise about some physical attributes, such as hair, but it's manageable, I wear lots of hats and scarves to deal with that.
Really, you need to figure out what is right for you. It's different for each one of us. I've taken each step slowly, and then listened carefully to my inner voice to see how it feels. And then more listening for what feels right for my next step.
Shana
Quote from: Shana A on April 22, 2013, 05:01:08 PM
Really, you need to figure out what is right for you. It's different for each one of us. I've taken each step slowly, and then listened carefully to my inner voice to see how it feels. And then more listening for what feels right for my next step.
Shana
This is really how it works. We don't walk a well worn path.
We are a very diverse group of people, and our wants and needs are just as diverse.
Your knack for simplifying things is uncanny, Z. :eusa_clap:
All any of us can do, is tell our perspectives.
Each person has to make some very personal choices for themselves. Each step of the way.
Myself, I took a lot of time in thinking things through, and still do.
Most times there isn't an answer, there are many answers.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on April 22, 2013, 05:38:24 PM
This is really how it works. We don't walk a well worn path.
We are a very diverse group of people, and our wants and needs are just as diverse.
Your knack for simplifying things is uncanny, Z. :eusa_clap:
All any of us can do, is tell our perspectives.
Each person has to make some very personal choices for themselves. Each step of the way.
Myself, I took a lot of time in thinking things through, and still do.
Most times there isn't an answer, there are many answers.
Ativan
Thanks Ativan!
We truly are a diverse group, each with different circumstances, and dreams. One size doesn't fit all.
Learning to hear, to listen to, my inner voice has been a long road. I'm just as good as anyone at getting stuck in my own endless loops, in repeating my own outmoded stories. I feel fortunate to have found some great help in sorting through it all. My therapist. A few close friends who are willing to talk on very deep levels. My yoga teacher, for helping me learn to listen to what my body is telling me.
What a journey!
Shana
I agree with you guys, we are a diverse group, like me hahaha, i wanted HRT but no boobs and still keeping my buddy, so HRT won´t work for me, i am thinking about orquidectomy, i was reading that to normal men, this affect, they get depressed etc.. i think for me it could quiet my noise, the bad part is that maybe my sexual life will be affected too, and i would have to take some t, and i don´t know if that T will be the same as keeping my tests, i read that some effects of the orquidectomy are:
No more muscle, no more strees, no more boldness, no more strenght, etc..
I don´t want to be weak, i want to look fragile but not being weak, so i guess maybe orquydectomy isn´t the right path for me either, i hope FFS, liposuction, hip augementation and butt augmentation can quiet this noise, if not, i will think more about orchydectomy again, please to all you guys who already have been through orquydectomy please tell me the benefits from it and also the cons, because all the info i got was for real men, not androgyne, and what not works for them, will work for me, hugs to everyone, xoxoxo
Quote from: Shana A on April 22, 2013, 05:01:08 PM
I started HRT almost five months ago (also electrolysis around then). The noise went way down, almost immediately, which I attribute to having made a decision to move forward. [...edited...]
I've just read all of this thread and there are so many great, interesting and informative posts in it.
After reading it, I am wondering, for those of you who have, or are, taking low dose hrt (and / or anti-androgens?) for purposes of reducing dysphoria, whether you have any thoughts on why you think doing that has reduced your dysphoria?
I am just at the beginning of proactively trying to tackle my own dysphoria, having only recently been to the dr's about it. At the moment I just intend to pursue counselling / therapy and possibly to consider finasteride for my hair. However, low dose hrt / anti-androgens were one of the things the dr talked about as perhaps a possible consideration in the future. For me, dysphoria has been such an all pervasive thing for so long that I can't really imagine anything reducing it.
Quote from: Q on May 03, 2013, 04:16:43 PM
I've just read all of this thread and there are so many great, interesting and informative posts in it.
After reading it, I am wondering, for those of you who have, or are, taking low dose hrt (and / or anti-androgens?) for purposes of reducing dysphoria, whether you have any thoughts on why you think doing that has reduced your dysphoria?
I am just at the beginning of proactively trying to tackle my own dysphoria, having only recently been to the dr's about it. At the moment I just intend to pursue counselling / therapy and possibly to consider finasteride for my hair. However, low dose hrt / anti-androgens were one of the things the dr talked about as perhaps a possible consideration in the future. For me, dysphoria has been such an all pervasive thing for so long that I can't really imagine anything reducing it.
Having gone on feminizing hormones long ago took the edge off of my dysphoria, but the issues never go away, it just makes it easier to live with. I am naturally what is known as a Type-A Chloric personality which is normally really opinionated, edgy and aggressive, some of that is long term learned male behavior and some of it is testosterone driven. Having taken steps to bring the testosterone levels to zero and going on estrogen has taken the edge off, moved me more toward a
Type B Personality over time and made me a much more laid back person that people like to be around. No-one gets their ass kicked anymore! ;D
Quote from: Shantel on May 03, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Having gone on feminizing hormones long ago took the edge off of my dysphoria, but the issues never go away, it just makes it easier to live with. I am naturally what is known as a Type-A Chloric personality which is normally really opinionated, edgy and aggressive, some of that is long term learned male behavior and some of it is testosterone driven. Having taken steps to bring the testosterone levels to zero and going on estrogen has taken the edge off, moved me more toward a Type Personality type over time and made me a much more laid back person that people like to be around. No-one gets their ass kicked anymore! ;D
lol... I'm a really laid back person anyway... I can't think that it could be possible to be more laid back than I already am.
I wonder if that is all personality type or whether I have lower than average testosterone, as I'm not particularly sex driven either. On the other hand I have no shortage of body hair... though that might be age as I didn't used to have when I was younger... It would be interesting to find out.
Q
I have a couple of theories but in the end it doesn't matter either way. Put plainly low dose hrt works. Low dose hrt removed my dysphoria, quietened the demons and took me to a much better place.
The first theory that fits my experience is that hrt is a key to unlocking your emotional and physical prison. Taking hrt is therefore part symbolic and allowed me as a rigid and tightly self defined alpha male to allow myself broader expression both in terms of emotional amplitude and gender identified behavior. It could therefore be seen as a physical or clear step towards unshackling myself from my rigid dysphoria-based, protective but restrictive carapace ..... Whether this means that sub consciously I have given myself permission to fully transition towards another form of binary presentation or to partially transition to a more androgynous state doesn't really matter to me. I feel more authentic and for the first time in more than 50 years I am able to be who I want to be and live my life the way I want to live rather than how my physical appearance has dictated.
The second theory that also seems consistent with my experience is that my brain is female, my body is male, my hormonal soup was also male. My sense of self, my spirit, my soul and my identity live within my brain. Immersing my brain or being in a cocktail of contrary hormones imprisoned my soul in a hostile and foreign environment. This caused my soul immense distress, my spirit significant damage and drove my dysphoria. Low dose hrt provided my brain with compatible hormones and instantly gave me an immense relief and a sense of 'rightness' and peace that I had never previously experienced.
Now the tricky thing for me is that low dose hrt sometimes feels like a precursor or appetiser to the main course. While I do not wish to take more, there is a hunger. Hrt is addictive and I have enjoyed further benefit when I have taken greater amounts. .... but it comes with profound and accelerated physical change, so low dose hrt is where my endo and I have agreed works best for me.
Low dose hrt has gifted me with a new emotional and physical equilibrium which I am discovering with wonder while developing a full appreciation of who I am.
We are a diverse group both physically and mentally.
I suppose you could divide us into a few categories, but I see no advantage in it.
Even the designations of FAAB and MAAB seem to follow a loose pattern.
There, the difference is what low dose HRT consists of. T or E basically. Although there is more to it.
At first I thought about the placebo effect and discussed this with my Dr and Psychologist.
They confirmed that there is of course going to be some. It's a wait and see kind of thing.
So more than a year later, I'm pretty sure that part of it has run it's course.
And there was some. It just tapered off on it's own, I hardly gave it a thought.
I also tried higher doses and found the effects to go beyond the range of my dysphoria.
It was fun while it lasted. The physical changes caught me off guard and I even quit altogether for a short time.
This gave me time to re-evaluate just what I was trying to accomplish.
This is where all of us being more or less individuals comes in.
Even at full transition levels, the effects are not going to be consistent.
At low dose, this is even more apparent. And the amounts you take are going to be different.
What you are going to be taking may be different than the next person. There are several ways to do this.
For MAAB, a T blocker and E is the usual, although even just a T blocker is pretty potent in itself.
For FAAB it's going to be T. Various ways of doing this also. I'm not that up on it, being MAAB.
The thing to keep in mind is that it is more about the ratio than the amount of T and E in your system.
There is a range and even in that range, two people with the same numbers are going to have different effects.
Although with more ongoing research being done, they are able to narrow down the results somewhat.
There is a long ways to go there. It really is a try it and wait and see kind of thing.
Yep, there is going to be a certain amount of placebo effect, But it is no different than talk therapy for most.
You're right about just taking the first steps is going to change your perspective. How could it not? Well maybe not.
Even prescription and otherwise drugs have different effects on different people.
There are some things that are predictable in a fashion.
It is very likely that it will quiet the 'noise' of dysphoria.
But the effects of dysphoria will still be there. That's where talk therapy is useful.
But for some just getting rid of the noise may be enough.
For others, no amount of HRT will stop it. It's in your head, it's from your life.
I'm sure there are studies that can pinpoint brain wiring and chemical reactions, etc.
But the bottom line there is that currently, there isn't a drug or whatever that stops it.
Wish there was. It's the hardest part of it all some days, every day for some of us.
What it really all means is that we have options that work.
It's checking each one, deciding if it is for you or not.
Almost an endless combination of sorts, but not quite that bad.
It pays to look into each and every option available to you.
Then try the ones you want, and wait and see. There isn't an overnight option.
It takes time for your body to adjust to whatever level of whatever you are taking.
Patience. You spent your life getting to this point, now spend the time to get it right.
Be upfront with your Drs and Therapist/Psychologists.
They have heard it all before and are doing what they can to help.
If it is something new, hey, you just contributed to the well being of the next person.
Which is also why we talk about this here. Sharing information and ideas. It works.
Just how low dose HRT (should start calling it LDHRT) works for each of us is going to be different.
Personally, I find that bit of information to be good.
Because if it doesn't work the way you think it should, you have lots of options.
You get to decide (it is always your decision, no matter what) how it is going to work and what you are going to get out of it.
Which is the other side of this. What we each want is different as well.
We don't have a road or well worn path to follow.
We get a lot of trails that criss-cross over each other in the forest.
Options and how they affect us. It's a process that takes time and sometimes different directions.
But stick with it. Don't give up. It works when you have the right combination.
It's not that hard to find it. You will get really good at knowing yourself out of it.
That's the best part of it all. That's what helps stop dysphoria the most.
Ativan
Quote from: Q on May 03, 2013, 04:16:43 PM
I've just read all of this thread and there are so many great, interesting and informative posts in it.
After reading it, I am wondering, for those of you who have, or are, taking low dose hrt (and / or anti-androgens?) for purposes of reducing dysphoria, whether you have any thoughts on why you think doing that has reduced your dysphoria?
I am just at the beginning of proactively trying to tackle my own dysphoria, having only recently been to the dr's about it. At the moment I just intend to pursue counselling / therapy and possibly to consider finasteride for my hair. However, low dose hrt / anti-androgens were one of the things the dr talked about as perhaps a possible consideration in the future. For me, dysphoria has been such an all pervasive thing for so long that I can't really imagine anything reducing it.
I was only on low-dose for about six months before I had unrelated health issues. But I can say this. It helped me a lot.
Part of it had to be placebo/psychological - that I was actually doing some thing, any thing. Also, I felt the burden of having to act in this expected societal role begin to lift. I was less depressed because of it.
And another thing, the estrogen just "felt right". My pre-HRT labs showed I naturally had low-normal T in my system, and higher than average (for a natal male) E. That probably accounts for my persistent pubertal gynecomastia.
It is hard for me to understand it, but even being off the HRT for a year now, my mood has not soured and my body has not "re-masculinized." I suppose staying hopeful helps too.
Quote from: Q on May 03, 2013, 04:16:43 PM
I've just read all of this thread and there are so many great, interesting and informative posts in it.
After reading it, I am wondering, for those of you who have, or are, taking low dose hrt (and / or anti-androgens?) for purposes of reducing dysphoria, whether you have any thoughts on why you think doing that has reduced your dysphoria?
I am just at the beginning of proactively trying to tackle my own dysphoria, having only recently been to the dr's about it. At the moment I just intend to pursue counselling / therapy and possibly to consider finasteride for my hair. However, low dose hrt / anti-androgens were one of the things the dr talked about as perhaps a possible consideration in the future. For me, dysphoria has been such an all pervasive thing for so long that I can't really imagine anything reducing it.
My wife has to take a medicine to help her remain calm. When she expressed concern to her doctor about it he said that her brain needed a chemical that her body cannot make.
Makes sense to me. Apparently as a bio-male my brain needs estrogen for some reason. A little bit of estrogen makes my world a much better place, and stops the madness that was going on in my head. My dysphoria is for the most part gone now.
So it's all good.
Shantel, Gerri, Ativan, Jamie and riven1 - thank you all for those insights. It's good to know there are different options to consider. The idea of low dose hrt is a relatively new one to me.
Hellow everyone, im back again, can someone please talk about orchydectomy? pros and cons? xoxoxo
Quote from: Emanuelle aka ema on May 08, 2013, 08:14:46 PM
Hellow everyone, im back again, can someone please talk about orchydectomy? pros and cons? xoxoxo
Hi Ema,
I sent you a pm describing my procedure....xox Shan
Hi all, I'm on low dose hrt as well. Just like some of you hrt is a bit of dilemma for me too because I don't really want boob but want all the other benefit. Right now I do have little boob, very obvious If I'm naked but otherwise not noticeable. So for now as long as I'm not increasing my dosage I still get most of the benefit of hrt with just a little bit of breast growth. Some of the benefit that I noticed are stopped my mpb (very big deal for me), reduced dysphoria, and smooth skin.
That´s great bingunginter, how long have you been on low hrt? And what about the changes we want? i mean hipps, waist, buttocks? Did you measure your chest before? Im on the same dilemma, i dont want boobs, just everything else hahaha, i don´t understand what does mpb means, have a great day, xoxoxo
About a year i think. I don't notice any significant change on the hip, buttocks, waist. Fat distribution for me occur mostly on chest and maybe face. I did not make any measurement. Mpb means male pattern baldness. I'm planning on having hair transplant, without some sort of hrt it will be useless.
Quote from: Q on May 03, 2013, 05:25:46 PM
lol... I'm a really laid back person anyway... I can't think that it could be possible to be more laid back than I already am.
I wonder if that is all personality type or whether I have lower than average testosterone, as I'm not particularly sex driven either. On the other hand I have no shortage of body hair... though that might be age as I didn't used to have when I was younger... It would be interesting to find out.
Well, the answer to this turned out to be I have normal testosterone levels but slightly above the normal male range of estradiol.
Also, apparently I have slightly high cholesterol and should cut fat from my diet. So, this blood testing has been good for something as I didn't know that... I shall work on improving my dietary habits.