Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I know I'm like ridiculously new to this forum, so I thought maybe I'd dip my feet in by posting something relevant to my worries.
I'm gay. And I'm completely pre-op. I'm finding it very difficult to find a relationship with a guy- mostly because he's straight and I can't give him what he wants! I've tried to meet other guys who are into guys in some way or another, but most of them stay away because I'm pre-op, or they just aren't into "dealing" with a transgender dude. It really hurts to feel not wanted, I guess is the best way to summarize what I'm saying.  Are there any other gay guys here who understand, or have been through this? If so, please give me some advice! It's much needed.
Thanks!

Definitely been there, had my heart broken by a handful of guys who have acted completely cool with me being trans and seemed totally accepting - when in reality they just thought it was awesome to have a "girlfriend" that acted like one of the guys. Once real change starts setting in or they start getting perceived as gay by outsiders the game changes.

I'm afraid my advice is the same old cliqued advice that's given to everyone the world over, plenty more fish in the sea, stop looking and you'll find someone, you just need to find the right guy, etcetera etcetera. They're clique for a reason, because they're true!

I had officially given up on dating and decided I was going to focus on my daughter and my transition when I met a wonderful guy in a games store; it was pretty much love at first sight and our two year anniversary is in a couple of weeks :P

I hate to break it to you, but gay guys don't usually try to hold a relationship with a straight man. I'm going to assume that he currently sees you as a girl, and being that you most likely don't want to be seen that way, which makes this an unhealthy relationship for you to be in.

Quote from: JasonRX on September 19, 2012, 02:44:03 AM
I hate to break it to you, but gay guys don't usually try to hold a relationship with a straight man.

oh no, there is a whole subset of gay guys who fall under this delusion of having relationships with masculine "str8" guys ::)  (Arch, back me up!), but I get the gist of what you're trying to say. :P

Totally - back when I was trying hard to be a gay man, most of my gay friends spent most of their time breaking their hearts over straight fellas. Been there, done that.

Quote from: Ave on September 19, 2012, 02:47:11 AM
oh no, there is a whole subset of gay guys who fall under this delusion of having relationships with masculine "str8" guys ::)  (Arch, back me up!), but I get the gist of what you're trying to say. :P

My point was that most wouldn't consider it healthy, not that it doesn't happen.
:-\

Personally I wouldn't WANT to be with a straight man. I am a gay transman and even before I was out or began transitioning, it kept turning out that I would date a guy and then later find out he was bisexual or, in one case, completely gay!

Then again, I always looked like a very young boy ~12 or so, even as a 20 year old (though I look closer to my age since starting T).

There are open-minded people out there, and you usually find them in minority groups. So if you're looking for a guy at the country club who's into you, that might be harder to find than a guy who's into Alternative lifestyle such as Kink, Furry, or Rave.

My current partner started dating me before I came out as trans but he was the one who kept asking me if I was trans, if I was a guy, if I wanted to take hormones and get surgery, etc. At first he seemed really worried and concerned which made me even more scared to admit things to him, and there were some tough times but he loves me very much and supports me. In fact, he is the one who takes me to my doctor appointments and has driven me out of state plenty of times to get testosterone, meet therapists, etc.

I been there.. and as some people already have said no I wouldnt date a straight guy unless he came out as bi.
I just cant deal with the straight label thing if people do so fine, put for me personal it feels like a stabbing for a guy to say "im straight I only date girls" and then date me is like disrespect to refering me as a girl or just being in denyal.
I could sleep with straight guys and have done it, but it would only be for a one night stand. guys usunally dont get much for running after straight guys, its just typical to do it anyway, running after types you wont get.

I had issues on guys all the time, pre T I had guys flirting with me but I was annoyed for whatever or not they would rejejct me when I turned more maculine, I still have that worry on my mind cause I know even when I changed alot from T I could change even more and become even more masculine.
its very risky and mental hard because even if your lucky that there is a guy who actually like you and you like him then you have to deal with the whole idea that he might get to a point where his not attracted too you anymore or whatever.

I do think I have this because manly the guys I been dating have been bisexual guys who where pretty straight, in the meaning that they had little to no experience in guys. So it made me extremly worry if it was just because they saw me as a girl, or was attracted to my femenine or androgyne apearance.

I seen a couple of ftms who date or are in relationships with gay guys, and I also had gay guys whos been into me, to be frank I still prefern bisexuals because I am scared of having a guy who couldnt deal with the things below. I think for some ftms its very easy being with gay guys because this thing arnt much of a deal to them, for me I do enjoy having sex there, and so. and im not planning on a surgery so it would be kinda troublesome.

I'm gay and I personally wouldn't date a straight guy (unless he were "straight" and even then only topping him, not a romantic relationship, appeals to me).  I've been on T for over 2 1/2 years (3 in December), had top surgery June 2011, and I'm pre-lower surgery.  My boyfriend is a pre-op/pre-T trans guy.

I'll admit sometimes it's hard to reconcile the way I see him, as a man, with the way he sounds and his lack of body/facial hair, body shape, etc.  But I still see him and love him as a man.  We're both gay and it works for us.  Cis gender gay men have been attracted to me and I have had relationships with a few (one it turns out is actually more genderqueer but whatever).

It's difficult but not impossible to find a gay man, trans or not, who will be attracted to a pre-op and/or pre-T trans guy.  Try online dating sites (how my bf and I found each other) and let potential partners know that you are trans up front if you are comfortable with that.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

I dated a straight guy, there definitely was something fun about that. After we broke up he mentioned he is never going gay again, I would try it with another straight guy. Anyway, while I feel he totally respected me, however he was very insecure with himself sexually. Not with his orientation, he had a very small penis. Size of my thumb erect and non existent flaccid. It as a major turn off and I couldn't get over. He was 6'5, I expected him to be hung like a horse. I was very attracted to him otherwise, but he sucked in bed and couldn't satisfy me. I completely understand why a cis gay guy wouldn't bother with a trans man. I couldn't either. I actually wish anatomy wasn't so important to me sexually. I could never date another trans man. I'm to picky in general. I will probably end up alone.

Quote from: Mercury on September 19, 2012, 04:15:16 PM
I dated a straight guy, there definitely was something fun about that. After we broke up he mentioned he is never going gay again, I would try it with another straight guy. Anyway, while I feel he totally respected me, however he was very insecure with himself sexually. Not with his orientation, he had a very small penis. Size of my thumb erect and non existent flaccid. It as a major turn off and I couldn't get over. He was 6'5, I expected him to be hung like a horse. I was very attracted to him otherwise, but he sucked in bed and couldn't satisfy me. I completely understand why a cis gay guy wouldn't bother with a trans man. I couldn't either. I actually wish anatomy wasn't so important to me sexually. I could never date another trans man. I'm to picky in general. I will probably end up alone.

lol, I'm so guilty of thinking the bigger/taller/broader the guy is the more heat he's packing (which in my experience is actually true) ;).

Quote from: Ave on September 19, 2012, 04:20:32 PM
lol, I'm so guilty of thinking the bigger/taller/broader the guy is the more heat he's packing (which in my experience is actually true) ;).

I figure if a man of average height is 5-6 inches than a tall guy should be bigger if he is just propionate. This makes sense to me, but I met a guy who was only a bit taller than me, I am 5'5.5, and he was huge. Biggest cock I've seen in person.I joked the extra inches went to his dick.

Quote from: Mercury on September 19, 2012, 04:27:06 PM
I figure if a man of average height is 5-6 inches than a tall guy should be bigger if he is just propionate. This makes sense to me, but I met a guy who was only a bit taller than me, I am 5'5.5, and he was huge. Biggest cock I've seen in person.I joked the extra inches went to his dick.

omg, this is like a kiki lounge ^^

I don't think we're allowed to talk like this though :O

Quote from: Mercury on September 19, 2012, 04:15:16 PM
I actually wish anatomy wasn't so important to me sexually. I could never date another trans man.

just because you have a small penis, dosen't mean you have a small dildo collection.

Quote from: BrendanIsQueer on September 19, 2012, 12:17:41 AM... they just aren't into "dealing" with a transgender dude.

i find its the same way with girls they dont want to deal with the etra ->-bleeped-<- that being trans comes with.

Yes I do agree that a lot of cisgender people don't want to deal with the extra considerations transgender people have in their lives (such as requiring Dr visits and blood tests, hormone levels straightened out, saving up for surgery, different than usual genitals) but then again many of them do. It's just the odds. Bout the same as the odds of finding someone who is into a relationship with someone who has other major factors in their life, such as physical limitations or a job where they are often away on business or infertility or something else. Some people can't deal with added stress or factors to consider financially, or when planning trips, or just day to day.

That said, the partners who ARE okay with it and do stick around, I have found tend to be the most giving people and will work harder, give more, make sacrifices, and work together. They are just in general better people, and their satisfaction and ability to handle their life means they can handle things with other people too. Ever heard of how people who do charity work and donations are happier? I don't think they're happier because they give, I think they are able and willing to give because they are happier and less caught up in stress and personal issues. This makes them able to deal with problems larger than themselves, or help those who need help and make room in their life for things that require a little more effort.





Sadly I too would probably be more inclined to be with a cisgendered male rather than a transman but NOT because of attractiveness. Because even though I don't ever want kids, I just like the one biological ability that only cisgender and not transmen have. Then again there are creative ways around that with toys, so it would depend on the person and how much I loved them. After all, I would stay with my current partner even if he lost his erotic ability and even if he were suffering even more severe problems, so I guess it really comes down to this:

What matters when you first meet someone doesn't matter so much once you already love them, and all that 'initial attraction and excitement' junk goes right out the window when faced with dating a new person or being with the love of your life.

Online dating is a great way to get close to people who can learn to love you for who you are, not what is or isn't downstairs, and then once you've got the connection that doesn't matter nearly as much. On the other hand, if things don't work out so well all you have to do is block their email or number and there's way less risk of being stalked or outed to everyone that you know.

Thank you all so much for replying! It's really awesome!
I'm not trying to date a straight man, though- I've learned my lesson on that way too many times to count!  ::) Definitely a no-no. I was just saying that when I did, they definitely just dropped it as soon as they realized that "Wow, okay no homo", to put it bluntly. It's really nice to see I'm not the only one here who's dealing with it! Thank you. I'm sure that I'm going to go ahead and follow the cliques, as much as I usually try and stay away from those, haha. Perhaps one day I'll meet Mr. Right, and not Mr. Right-Until-I-Realize-You're-A-Dude.  ;)

Gay guys often hurt my feelings but I still feel better not getting laid enough post-transition than I did getting laid by (and dating) straight men who liked masculine chicks. It is frustrating though and you are definitely not alone. Homosexual men can be a tough crowd for transguys.

I'm bisexual, and the last dude I dated was straight and basically forced me to be his girlfriend. Not an experience I would like to relive, so I can feel you on your frustration.

Here's the truth - there are gay cis dudes out there who will consider a relationship with a pre op trans man, but they're a bit harder to find and even then, there are issues. It's hard to be with someone who is trans for a lot of people, and so a lot of people tend to shy away from them.

The best thing you can do is focus on yourself. Take care of your needs. Relationships can be nice, but if you spend all your time looking for one, you probably won't like the end result. Work on things that make you happy, go to new places or try new things. Spend time with friends or people you care about. It's hard to do, but healthy and fulfilling relationships tend to find you when you're not digging around for them.

You're likely to find someone out there, it just takes a lot of time to find the 'right' person who will work well with you and respect you.

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on September 19, 2012, 05:49:35 PM
Yes I do agree that a lot of cisgender people don't want to deal with the extra considerations transgender people have in their lives (such as requiring Dr visits and blood tests, hormone levels straightened out, saving up for surgery, different than usual genitals) but then again many of them do.

That last part seems odd to me. It seems to me that in a perfect world, half the gay men would have penises and half would have... shall we way, complimentary genitals. I realize this is kind of delicate ground to tread. The subject apparently triggers dysphoria for a lot of guys. I apologize in advance for that. I've often said that genitals have never been what defines my gayness. I'm attracted to men, always have been, and I've often said it's never been about their junk for me. To be completely honest though, I think trans men are more appealing than cis men in that particular department (assuming it's not a significant source of dyshporia for them, of course). I'm surprised more cis guys don't feel that way.

Quote from: Ave on September 19, 2012, 04:20:32 PM
lol, I'm so guilty of thinking the bigger/taller/broader the guy is the more heat he's packing (which in my experience is actually true) ;).

Of the many guys I've dated, I've hardly seen any correlation. I dated a guy 6'5 once and his was right about average (6" or so). Meanwhile, I recall a Latino who was about my height and he was ginormous.

Quote from: dalebert on September 19, 2012, 10:10:23 PM
Of the many guys I've dated, I've hardly seen any correlation. I dated a guy 6'5 once and his was right about average (6" or so). Meanwhile, I recall a Latino who was about my height and he was ginormous.

For shame, as a gay guy you should know latinos don't count, they're outliers :P.

Quote from: Ave on September 19, 2012, 10:14:03 PM
For shame, as a gay guy you should know latinos don't count, they're outliers :P.

How silly of me. :)

I waited until I was through transition to date.  Transition is awkward, there are a lot of changes, most physical but you'd be surprised how much you change in other ways as well.  I am still me, but I am definitely not the same as I was pre-transition if you exclude gender.

There are gay men who don't care about penis size and who may be open to complementary anatomy so to speak.  Yes, there are a lot of superficial gay men, and lots are into size, etc.  But there are others who like men, as men, and the size doesn't matter.

Dating sucks for everyone.  It is a tricky thing to navigate when you are in an ideal place in your life; it is much trickier navigating the whole non-standard body thing.

For me, the only way to navigate it was to at least look male, and hope I'd find someone who was for real and not superficial, and not care.  I did.

Jay

I, personally, am totally open to dating another trans man. The possibility of the sexual part of the relationship being a tad frustrating stands out, but honestly the emotional connection is what matters more to me. And if that part went well, I'm sure he and I would find a way to evolve our relationship into something sexual. In fact, I wonder if it would work out even better with another trans, compared to a cis guy? Maybe we would be able to connect better emotionally? I'm not too sure, but it really doesn't matter to me what's downstairs.

But, I'm gonna stick it out for now and focus on working on my life. I admit in my last relationship, I ended because I do need to work on myself. I'm almost done with school, and I can't get distracted with that, or I'll never finish. I want to lose weight, and honestly when I have someone, all I want to do is lay around all day and cuddle with him in bed; and that doesn't exactly promote a healthy lifestyle. Heh. As well as get on track with beginning counseling and hopefully start on T sometime within this next year.
Yes, I think I should focus on that, and strengthening my relationship with my family- I feel our bonds have weakened over the past year, and I really want to fix that. I have a lot on my plate, but I'm not gonna lie. I just get really lonely in ways that someone who is just a friend couldn't satisfy.

Quote from: dalebert on September 19, 2012, 10:07:38 PM
That last part seems odd to me. It seems to me that in a perfect world, half the gay men would have penises and half would have... shall we way, complimentary genitals. I realize this is kind of delicate ground to tread. The subject apparently triggers dysphoria for a lot of guys. I apologize in advance for that. I've often said that genitals have never been what defines my gayness. I'm attracted to men, always have been, and I've often said it's never been about their junk for me. To be completely honest though, I think trans men are more appealing than cis men in that particular department (assuming it's not a significant source of dyshporia for them, of course). I'm surprised more cis guys don't feel that way.

Don't get me wrong, I wish more of them felt that way, truly I do, especially since there are way more gay men than trans men and that would leave a lot more dating options. I think it would help a lot for transmen to become more publicly visible since right now, believe it or not, many guys don't even know they exist.

Quote from: dalebert on September 19, 2012, 10:10:23 PM
Of the many guys I've dated, I've hardly seen any correlation. I dated a guy 6'5 once and his was right about average (6" or so). Meanwhile, I recall a Latino who was about my height and he was ginormous.

I absolutely love latino guys, they tend to have the type of noses I find really attractive. Only been with one though but he was also gifted in that department.

just saying height has very little to do with penis size which is why being a short cis guy is good because then your dick looks bigger in relation to their body.

Quote from: anibioman on September 20, 2012, 09:19:02 AM
just saying height has very little to do with penis size which is why being a short cis guy is good because then your dick looks bigger in relation to their body.

To a certain extent, being shorter makes everything look bigger. My first boyfriend said he liked the proportions on short guys, like when they work out, they get that relatively wide/broad-shouldered look. Tall guys can get it, but it's harder. I used to have a strong preference for tall guys but now I'm pretty neutral. One thing I've noticed is that shorter guys look better naked, generally. I think it has something to do with those proportions my boyfriend talked about. Tall guys often look better in clothes--their bodies are like a hanger. But get the clothes off and they can tend  to look lanky and disproportionate.

I think this is why there are a LOT of short guys in porn.

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on September 20, 2012, 05:47:56 AM
Don't get me wrong, I wish more of them felt that way, truly I do, especially since there are way more gay men than trans men and that would leave a lot more dating options. I think it would help a lot for transmen to become more publicly visible since right now, believe it or not, many guys don't even know they exist.

I didn't mean to direct that at you. Your statement just raised the subject for me. I think we essentially agree. I think there is a very irrational taboo behind this reaction that gay guys have. I am pretty confident that many of them will outgrow this in time, or at least that younger generations will not have it like older generations seem to. It all seems to be tied in with this notion of gender being so directly defined by genitals and people are learning that gender is a spectrum and most of gender, most of the things that make us attracted to certain people, are not about their genitals. I know for me, I was getting crushes on guys before I was giving nary a thought to what was down there. I was initially put off by traditional guy junk and grew to like it only because that's what happened to be part of the people I was attracted to. I realized I developed my own irrational taboo around girl junk for the same reason--because in my mind, it was so thoroughly associated with the gender that I was never attracted to and could not perceive of in a sexual way (yes, I had full-on vaginaphobia, a word I just made up). Once it thoroughly sunk in for me that gender is really 99% about all the other stuph, my taboos and my phobia faded. I'm sure that can happen for other guys as they get educated about gender issues.

speaking for myself,

I get bottom dyshoria with someone who dont like it, but if people dont care I dont care either.
in a way I find transguys actually to be more hot than regular (sure it all depend on the person)
I am bisexual so I cant speak for the "only gay line" But I do think a guy without bottom dyshoria or bottom surgery is pretty hot and better than cisguys, because.. honestly.. d**s are okay.. Vjay are better and less a mess, dosent matter if its a man or a woman we talk about.

I heard a couple of bi and gay guys, who said the same they where into me being trans when I told them, like that they actually found it pretty hot. I dont think its nessesarry the part who deside, its more about trust and fitting together. as already mention I do know transmen in relationship with cis gay guys.
---
I think one of the big issue of it is that first of all,

1, transmen is kinda unnoticed compared to transwomen,
transwomen had (because of porn) always been kinda attractive of certain men and they always been more on the focus, I belive transmen havent got as much attention for diffrent point, both because trans women in history have been more noticeable, and also because porn are more for men than women, and most men are straight and like girls bla bla..
------
2, the other point is the whole taboo thing,
its really big taboo to say you got something for trans people whatever your gay or straight, or trans.
your to be looked on as a pervert, or as a ->-bleeped-<- chaiser. which kinda make the line between "us, and the perverts" and I also think its kinda troublesome.

people preferns alot of diffrent things, but a guy wont get any critizim for being attracted to a skinny girl, even if shes very skinny, if he is attracted to a fat girl, he will get alot of prejugdes that he has fetish for fat people and like to feed them up or general hes just wierd (you see the point? its the same for transguys)

3, the last thing is that usunally the gay people had to prove themself that there diffently gay. and I think theres pretty much taboo, you see for bisexuals how gay guys dont want to date them because "ew they eated down at the wrong place" sadly those kind of prejugdes are there and they also go for transguys..

4, last is dyshoria, it really kills all the sexness I think.
I see alot of transguys who are extremly hot, but because of dyshoria its kinda hard to make a move,
as well theres also cisgender people who are concerned about there body where its the same issue.
I think its both harder for the person who got it and the other part who wanna do a move, but if you trust each other it can work out.
---------
Daim I hope someone can read this,
I wrotte pretty fast here.. XD

Quote from: Natkat on September 20, 2012, 01:57:01 PM
...because.. honestly.. d**s are okay.. Vjay are better and less a mess

Mess? Now I'm having bottom dysphoria. ;)

Quote from: dalebert on September 20, 2012, 02:10:33 PM
Mess? Now I'm having bottom dysphoria. ;)

mess like.. uhm.. how to explain without sounding nasty?
im not a big fan of cum,
and I dont like when they shot there louds and it gets everywhere. its like when you have an incect and then out of sudden you notice it can fly.

:embarrassed:

Ah, yes. The dysphoria that comes along with trans people can become a mess- I would know, I have a lot of that myself! It certainly would make me shy away from dating a trans, mostly because it can become troublesome to have two doses of that dysphoria going on at once! Not that that would completely turn me away from dating another trans, as I said before, it doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the puzzle pieces fit upstairs, not downstairs.

I really do want to thank everyone who has posted on here. For so long I've been troubled with this, and felt completely alone because I didn't know anyone in my shoes. I kind of feel like that about this entire site in general. After coming out for the second time (a long story that involves me going back into the closet), I've felt very insecure about myself- more than the usual. You folks are giving me a lot of hope for myself and my transition! And helping me during the process, too. I know we just met, but I think I love you guys <3 Aha.    :eusa_dance:

Glad the convo is helping :)

And wow hehe I actually prefer the male genitals to female ones. Guess it depends on what you consider a mess. Cum only happens at certain times and to me it's pleasant but like moisture.. stuff like that... not my thing.

One of the things I sincerely hope is for more and.more transguys in porn. Once men see them, and sven a niche market sees how hot they are, that will go a long way. Some people get offended by 'perverts' or 'fetishizers' but hey I have preferences: men, latinos, noses like Jon Bernthals, and I am not a pervert or anything. Why WOULDN'T. Someone want to be the ultimate sexiest and most desirable lover to their partner?

I have dysphoria while waiting on bottom surgery, but having people more open to transmen sexually will also make them seem more a possibility for romantic partners, which will benefit preop, postop, and nonop transmen. I really do hope that comes to be.

Quote from: BrendanIsQueer on September 20, 2012, 07:23:46 PM
I know we just met, but I think I love you guys <3 Aha.    :eusa_dance:

aww <3
--
ChaoticTribe
Hmm... well maybe its cause cum gives me more dyshoria than anything ells. I compare it to bad things like pregnacy (and STD), whos like my top 10 fear, even when im all safe I still think of it as poisen.
I dont mind transguys who do get pregnant or women who do,
but I really couldnt do it and I can hardly hug a pregnant women without having thought of an alien gonna jump out of her stomack and attact me (kind of felling),
if cum didnt had that abilaty I probably wouldn't compare it to all the "male female getting babys things you learn in school and make you wanna vomit" and get dyshoria about it so I guess I wouldnt mind as much but sadly it dose + it taste kinda nasty..

I hope nobody feel too offended by my decribtion, on the positive site im lucky that I beside that dont have much dyshoria. I dont have to deal with the top anymore since surgery, and bottom dyshoria is a matter of trust for me.
---------------
more transporn is nice, yes, just not mastrubation porn where you only see the genetalia..

I agree on you, I think its alittle harsh to just jugde someone like this, I must admit I have done the same thought.
but I also understand the critizism because I have had a couple of those ->-bleeped-<--chacers after me and some of them can be REALLY ANNOYING.
if you like sex its totally cool, but some of them are VERY ignorant. they only view you as a sexobject for there dark sexual fantasy nobody should know about.
and it can be pretty disturbing if your not nessesarry just for sex but you actually want a "person to person get to know each other" line.

I think people who are into the trans thing, but you can talk to are cool, but those who got you like a dirty fantasy are only for hook ups and nothing more. and in general if they dont show a certain respect then there not worth anything.

(daim I sound so evil in this post)

Quote from: dalebert on September 20, 2012, 09:56:33 AM
To a certain extent, being shorter makes everything look bigger. My first boyfriend said he liked the proportions on short guys, like when they work out, they get that relatively wide/broad-shouldered look. Tall guys can get it, but it's harder. I used to have a strong preference for tall guys but now I'm pretty neutral. One thing I've noticed is that shorter guys look better naked, generally. I think it has something to do with those proportions my boyfriend talked about. Tall guys often look better in clothes--their bodies are like a hanger. But get the clothes off and they can tend  to look lanky and disproportionate.

I think this is why there are a LOT of short guys in porn.

yup there are a lot of short guys in porn. No shorties for me though, I just mentally relate height to masculinity and masculinity=good so :P (of course it's just my thinking, :P).

Quote from: Natkat on September 21, 2012, 01:43:02 PM
(daim I sound so evil in this post)

No, you don't. I was just kidding about your post causing me dysphoria.

Quote from: Ave on September 21, 2012, 02:03:01 PM
yup there are a lot of short guys in porn. No shorties for me though, I just mentally relate height to masculinity and masculinity=good so :P (of course it's just my thinking, :P).

It's people like you that make guys insecure about their height.
This is just totally unnecessary, joking or not.

Quote from: JasonRX on September 21, 2012, 02:20:39 PM
It's people like you that make guys insecure about their height.
This is just totally unnecessary, joking or not.

Let me say that again for you: "Of course, it's just MY thinking"

Am I going to hookup with any ftm's who read this? No, it's not my bag and I probably wouldn't be theirs. By saying it's MY thinking I hoped to make it clear enough that I held that certain view, but that I only spoke for myself.

And honestly, are you saying I have to be all inclusive about the guys I deal with? Who I deal with is something that should concern me, and I'm sure short guys (FTM or no) know enough that my opinion doesn't say squat about them because I'm not the Overlord Supreme of the world.

Quote from: Ave on September 21, 2012, 02:27:52 PM
Let me say that again for you: "Of course, it's just MY thinking"

Am I going to hookup with any ftm's who read this? No, it's not my bag and I probably wouldn't be theirs. By saying it's MY thinking I hoped to make it clear enough that I held that certain view, but that I only spoke for myself.

And honestly, are you saying I have to be all inclusive about the guys I deal with? Who I deal with is something that should concern me, and I'm sure short guys (FTM or no) know enough that my opinion doesn't say squat about them because I'm not the Overlord Supreme of the world.

Holy hell, you're really immature.

And I don't identify as FTM, so thanks, bud.

Quote from: JasonRX on September 21, 2012, 02:30:34 PM
Holy hell, you're really immature.

And I don't identify as FTM, so thanks, bud.

oh dear. And that was me being civil, you certainly don't want me trying to "read" you as you are trying to do to me.

Have a nice day, "bud". ::)

Quote from: dalebert on September 20, 2012, 02:10:33 PM
Mess? Now I'm having bottom dysphoria. ;)

it was more my comparing babys to aliens, one day a crazy mother will kill me for that. LOL..

Quote from: Ave on September 21, 2012, 02:33:30 PM
oh dear. And that was me being civil, you certainly don't want me trying to "read" you as you are trying to do to me.

Have a nice day, "bud". ::)

I don't identify as FTM - and you have no idea how half of the stuff your saying is not only considering, but really triggering for guys who pride themselves in their masculinity when you're blatantly saying "lawlz, it doesn't matter cuz you're short".
By the way, responding sarcastically to my post isn't an attempt to be civil or you clearly don't know how to be civil.

Quote from: JasonRX on September 21, 2012, 02:30:34 PM
Holy hell, you're really immature.

And I don't identify as FTM, so thanks, bud.

Ave was just expressing a personal preference and did it in a way that was obviously expressed as personal preference. Other people have expressed similar preferences, such as those who do not wish to be sexually involved with trans men.

Ad hominem attacks are completely inappropriate, and they violate the Terms of Service. If you have a problem with someone's post, then please report it to the moderators.

Quote from: JasonRX on September 21, 2012, 02:38:39 PM
I don't identify as FTM - and you have no idea how half of the stuff your saying is not only considering, but really triggering for guys who pride themselves in their masculinity when you're blatantly saying "lawlz, it doesn't matter cuz you're short".
By the way, responding sarcastically to my post isn't an attempt to be civil or you clearly don't know how to be civil.

It's squashed, I just don't appreciate being villified for my personal likes.

I don't like short guys either and I'm short.  My height bothers me enough that I would get leg lengthening surgery if I could afford it.
I'm also not attracted to skinny guys.
Blond guys also don't look masculine enough for my tastes.

Maybe we should stay on topic, eh?

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on September 22, 2012, 05:16:11 AM
Maybe we should stay on topic, eh?

Agreed...

Ah, Good I came by this thread. I am trans and gay. Never ever had relationships in my life and I'm 20. It's really puts me down..

One thing I wonder: how many trans guys have blatantly asked another dude out ir been very suggestive, and how many flirt and wait for the other guy to initiate?

Me personally I am very flirty but I always have the other person ask me out, I just let them know I like them by actions and stuff, and I have had good luck with dudes and not really experienced rejection, possibly because the people who would reject me aren't people who'd ask me out, even pre-T.

I wonder whether a lot of othet guys do this as well or if y'all are more forthcoming?

If it helps anyone, I am happily married to a gay man, so there are guys who don't mind.

Quote from: deejayk on September 22, 2012, 11:27:10 AM
Ah, Good I came by this thread. I am trans and gay. Never ever had relationships in my life and I'm 20. It's really puts me down..

20 still leaves you with plenty of time, so don't worry.  :laugh:

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on September 22, 2012, 04:39:22 PM
One thing I wonder: how many trans guys have blatantly asked another dude out ir been very suggestive, and how many flirt and wait for the other guy to initiate?

Me personally I am very flirty but I always have the other person ask me out, I just let them know I like them by actions and stuff, and I have had good luck with dudes and not really experienced rejection, possibly because the people who would reject me aren't people who'd ask me out, even pre-T.

I wonder whether a lot of othet guys do this as well or if y'all are more forthcoming?

I made all the first moves as far as flirting, he asked me out to our first date, and I proposed to him. Though... I probably would have asked him out if he hadn't beaten me to the punch. But he totally waited for me to get on one knee and be the gentleman.  :laugh:

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on September 22, 2012, 04:39:22 PM
One thing I wonder: how many trans guys have blatantly asked another dude out ir been very suggestive, and how many flirt and wait for the other guy to initiate?

Me personally I am very flirty but I always have the other person ask me out, I just let them know I like them by actions and stuff, and I have had good luck with dudes and not really experienced rejection, possibly because the people who would reject me aren't people who'd ask me out, even pre-T.

I wonder whether a lot of othet guys do this as well or if y'all are more forthcoming?

I tend to flirt a lot.  I wait to see if he's gonna ask me out and if he doesn't after a little while then I ask him lol.

Coming from the opposite direction I have found Lesbians can be as Transphobic as anyone else.  Fortunately I have worked out that I am Pansexual and into kink, so I am now content to wait for very special  people to come into my life and I am no longer so unhappy being single.  They will probably be female in form, but it is not a major concern.

Karen.

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on September 22, 2012, 04:39:22 PM
One thing I wonder: how many trans guys have blatantly asked another dude out ir been very suggestive, and how many flirt and wait for the other guy to initiate?

I've blatantly asked most of boyfriends out.

Quote from: Jeatyn on September 19, 2012, 12:42:25 AM
Definitely been there, had my heart broken by a handful of guys who have acted completely cool with me being trans and seemed totally accepting - when in reality they just thought it was awesome to have a "girlfriend" that acted like one of the guys. Once real change starts setting in or they start getting perceived as gay by outsiders the game changes.

I'm afraid my advice is the same old cliqued advice that's given to everyone the world over, plenty more fish in the sea, stop looking and you'll find someone, you just need to find the right guy, etcetera etcetera. They're clique for a reason, because they're true!

I had officially given up on dating and decided I was going to focus on my daughter and my transition when I met a wonderful guy in a games store; it was pretty much love at first sight and our two year anniversary is in a couple of weeks :P

This, 100%! I had so many failed relationships with straight guys who decided they couldn't deal with how masculine I am (this was before I came out), and gay guys who couldn't deal with my body. I had pretty much given up on finding someone, and that's when I found my love. Been together for a year and things couldn't be more amazing! My best advice is to try not to dwell on being alone or people not liking you for who you are. When you find the right guy, he will absolutely love every part of you and you being trans won't be any kind of burden for him. There are def gay/bi/pan/etc. men out there who are open to (and like) being with trans guys. Just gotta find em :) Good luck bud!!

I really wish there was some kind of advice that I could give you, but unfortunately, all I can stay is "Stay strong, and be patient,"
I've been having the same difficulties that you are. I've been going through a dating site, and clearly state that I'm trans. I've had a few dates through there, but they never seem to pan out. Sure, the guys all say, "Oh, hey, I'm cool with that..." But later it turns into, "...So...You're getting a penis, right...? Like when, like soon...and you're gonna top me, right?" o.o; Seriously, I really don't understand this. Either that, or they end up seeing my hips and saying, "I'm just too gay to date you,"

It definitely hurts, but there's bound to be at least a handful of people out there who really don't mind, and who genuinely like you for being you :3

Good luck, dear!

Ah, see I usually like to bottom and top only occasionally cuz the sensation isnt there and my parts aren't big enough to do a thorough job yet. For guys who aren't genitally dysphoric labelling yourself as a c***boy would weed out guys who don't like the whole package, as that would signal that you're a very male dude not manly gf but that you're not going to be topping unless its with equipment and they'd respect that as other ghys would know to move on.

I've had the same experiences as lots of guys on here. Now, I haven't actually gone out looking for a gay man, and I haven't done any dating in a while, but two out of the three men that I was interested in (one that I dated), turned out to be gay. Something just drew me to them and them to me, and it wasn't until about a year and a half ago that I realized I'm trans. I've asked some other transmen about their experiences with being gay, if gay men accept it, and I get "some do, some don't." I think I'm just hoping, like we all are, that I'll meet that one gay man who loves me as a man. I don't think I could ever be with a "straight" guy...I feel like he'd always think of me as just a masculine woman, you know? And I definitely don't want that!!

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on September 27, 2012, 10:30:57 AM
Ah, see I usually like to bottom and top only occasionally cuz the sensation isnt there and my parts aren't big enough to do a thorough job yet. For guys who aren't genitally dysphoric labelling yourself as a c***boy would weed out guys who don't like the whole package, as that would signal that you're a very male dude not manly gf but that you're not going to be topping unless its with equipment and they'd respect that as other ghys would know to move on.

only problem I got with the c*nboy term is that its a fetish term like ->-bleeped-<-" or "slut. so you can only use it when your seaching sex and nothing ells. 

Quote from: limepepsi on October 02, 2012, 03:42:39 AM
I've had the same experiences as lots of guys on here. Now, I haven't actually gone out looking for a gay man, and I haven't done any dating in a while, but two out of the three men that I was interested in (one that I dated), turned out to be gay. Something just drew me to them and them to me, and it wasn't until about a year and a half ago that I realized I'm trans. I've asked some other transmen about their experiences with being gay, if gay men accept it, and I get "some do, some don't." I think I'm just hoping, like we all are, that I'll meet that one gay man who loves me as a man. I don't think I could ever be with a "straight" guy...I feel like he'd always think of me as just a masculine woman, you know? And I definitely don't want that!!

Well I see it as a general thing, people focus on diffrent thing and want diffrent things, I can understand being trans can be kinda darring to some, but if you like the person enough I belive most wouldnt mind. general the people who had rejejcted me from being trans have done so like before they really knew me, if they started to got into me more personally they where like.. arh.. WTH
-----

Actually no, it isn't a term by those only looking for sex. It is a term for Everyone wuo is uneducated about trans issues, basically the entire population for the most part. When a guy wants a relationship with a MTF he won't likely know how to properly refer to her unless he has already been with someone of that description. So if anything it would be a term for 'noobs'.

After all, those are the words promoted by society. As another example, 'Pit Bull' isn't a breed. American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Terrier, and very recently among UKC only and not AKC, KC or other registries, American Pit Bull Terrier has just recently come into use. Fanciers and the very knowledgeable refer tp things properly, but the general public hasn't got the education to do so.

And it's really not hard to keep your pants on and form a committed relationship, which will drive away the booty-->-bleeped-<-s quick as can be. Demand text and email (getting to know each other, not sex!) Before phone calls. Then phone talk before meeting, dates like park and zoo before dinner and a movie, and don't put out right away.

Hey everyone, newbie here.  I am SO glad I found this thread!  Coming from the opposite perspective, I am a gay cis guy who recently dated a trans guy who was pre-op and on T for over a year.  My situation seems to be the opposite of what many of you have experienced.  Instead of me being insecure of my ex's body, my ex was paranoid that I was not going to accept him after he came out to me as trans, and constantly feared that I would leave him for a "real" guy as HE put it, not me!  When he came out to me, it only took me a few minutes to realize that I accepted him 1000000% for who he was, mainly because I never met a trans guy and I didn't eve know they could be gay!  I was NEVER uncomfortable with his body and always let him lead when we were intimate, and never placed my hands anywhere that he didn't feel comfortable.  In fact, it took a couple days to realize that being trans actually made him MORE attractive to me.  Our relationship ended partly because HE was insecure about me accepting him.  Although I was pretty heartbroken that things ended, as I was becoming more and more attached to him, the one thing I gained from the relationship was the realization that I am more attracted to trans guys than bio guys.  Too bad he never had any faith in me--his loss!  So where do I go from here?  This is all new to me.  I've learned so much in the short time we were together.  Now I want to meet more trans guys.  Where do I find them?  Are there any online dating sites for trans people and people who want to date them?  Also, have any other bio partners experienced this insecurity from your trans partners?  What can we do to reassure our trans partners that we ACCEPT them and it's not a big deal to us that they are trans???  What can I do to make my next relationship work better?

Quote from: Bostoncisguy on October 04, 2012, 12:54:41 AM
Hey everyone, newbie here.  I am SO glad I found this thread!  Coming from the opposite perspective, I am a gay cis guy who recently dated a trans guy who was pre-op and on T for over a year.  My situation seems to be the opposite of what many of you have experienced.  Instead of me being insecure of my ex's body, my ex was paranoid that I was not going to accept him after he came out to me as trans, and constantly feared that I would leave him for a "real" guy as HE put it, not me!  When he came out to me, it only took me a few minutes to realize that I accepted him 1000000% for who he was, mainly because I never met a trans guy and I didn't eve know they could be gay!  I was NEVER uncomfortable with his body and always let him lead when we were intimate, and never placed my hands anywhere that he didn't feel comfortable.  In fact, it took a couple days to realize that being trans actually made him MORE attractive to me.  Our relationship ended partly because HE was insecure about me accepting him.  Although I was pretty heartbroken that things ended, as I was becoming more and more attached to him, the one thing I gained from the relationship was the realization that I am more attracted to trans guys than bio guys.  Too bad he never had any faith in me--his loss!  So where do I go from here?  This is all new to me.  I've learned so much in the short time we were together.  Now I want to meet more trans guys.  Where do I find them?  Are there any online dating sites for trans people and people who want to date them?  Also, have any other bio partners experienced this insecurity from your trans partners?  What can we do to reassure our trans partners that we ACCEPT them and it's not a big deal to us that they are trans???  What can I do to make my next relationship work better?

Hmm its hard to say, I think most trans sites manly are very mtf focus.
theres a few trans sites like FTMlover, Buck angel date, but the bad part is, you need to pay and it sucks.
theres also free sites like trans-passion, who manly is for mtf but theres also ftms.
and then theres Okcupid which neither is trans or gay but I heard alot of transfolks using it but I wish I could give some better links.

I dont know where your from but this is all worldwide sites of what I know.
im not bio but I been with bio guys, I did not really had worryes he would leave me for a bio guy, but I did had worries he would leave me during transition.

I really belive the only thing you can do is to just point straight out that you love him no matter what, you cant really do anymore, and if he dosent trust you then theres not more you can do.

you can give the horse water but you cant force it to drink as we say.

Natkat, thanks so much!  I will take a look at those sites.  I am already on OKCupid, which is, as the name implies, just ok.  I wonder if you can actually search specifically for trans guys on OKCupid or do you have to just get lucky.  Maybe I have to edit my profile to say trans friendly or something like that.

As for my ex, it's totally over.  Yeah, he is in the middle of his transition, and he has been on T for a year, but has not had top surgery yet since he can't afford it yet. I tried so hard to convince him that I was extremely comfortable with everything--maybe I was even more comfortable than he was, lol!  He was worried that I would get impatient since it would probably be a couple of years before he could have top surgery, which I had no problems with.  It never occurred to him that maybe if someone loved you enough, they would be willing to help pay for things like surgery, and that he wasn't alone in his transition.  On the other hand, I wouldn't have wanted to make him feel like I was trying to buy his love by offering to help pay for it, but hey, you make sacrifices and if I had to choose between spending money on my cars (I am a HUGE car fanatic) or help paying for my partner's surgery, I would choose the surgery if it meant that much to him and his happiness.  I have been through a lot in my life, and it's made me a strong person, the type of person you want on your side when you're going through tough stuff like this.  Oh well, but that's over now.  On to the next guy I hope! I hope he isn't on here so he won't see this, but part of me kind of does hope he sees it, hahaha!

I can't thank everyone enough for listening to me vent!

You're best off saying you're trans-friendly in your profile - because obviously, many trans men just identify as men, so they're not necessarily going to mention their transness in their own profiles.

Quote from: BrendanIsQueer on September 19, 2012, 12:17:41 AM
I know I'm like ridiculously new to this forum, so I thought maybe I'd dip my feet in by posting something relevant to my worries.
I'm gay. And I'm completely pre-op. I'm finding it very difficult to find a relationship with a guy- mostly because he's straight and I can't give him what he wants! I've tried to meet other guys who are into guys in some way or another, but most of them stay away because I'm pre-op, or they just aren't into "dealing" with a transgender dude. It really hurts to feel not wanted, I guess is the best way to summarize what I'm saying.  Are there any other gay guys here who understand, or have been through this? If so, please give me some advice! It's much needed.
Thanks!

Well, if it makes you feel "less" bad, we MTF have the same problems finding someone for an relationship. Not just the MTF that are into guys. Even us MTF who identify as Lesbian have to deal with women who won't accept a Female brain, emotional state, and a "Hybryd" body. Its either your a Boy or a Girl, and if your not in one of those you "FAIL" I know many Bi females who will only "be" with either MEN(Masculine men) or Women(Feminine women)! Its a separate ability to accept one of us(FTM/MTF)! Its rare, and those who are Blessed to have someone who feels like that is very lucky indeed!

Best,

The LONELY MTF(Lesbian).... :embarrassed:

Quote from: Padma on October 04, 2012, 09:50:14 AM
You're best off saying you're trans-friendly in your profile - because obviously, many trans men just identify as men, so they're not necessarily going to mention their transness in their own profiles.

Thanks, Padma!  I will do that.  I wasn't sure if there was a way to filter things out or not, but that totally makes sense.  Why would you say in your profile that you're trans if you identify with your new gender?  Are there really a lot of guys on that site?  Wish me luck!

You also need to be somewhat conscious of not being perceived as a "->-bleeped-<-". I'm not completely sure what attributes make one a ->-bleeped-<- vs. someone who is trans-friendly in a positive way. It has something to do with it being a fetish I think, but I think where that line is varies from one person to another and can be very fuzzy.

Where it seems obvious is if you see trans people simply as sexual objects and just want to have sex and get your rocks off and perhaps pursue more meaningful relationships with non-trans people.  I've heard stories. There apparently are people out there like that. (ew) But I've seen some trans guys interpret it much more broadly to the point where it seems like you could be perceived as a fetishist simply for finding your trans partner attractive exactly as he is, non-op parts included. It can be delicate ground to tread. I think if you are sensitive to things that can be triggers for dysphoria in your partner and you respect those things, you will probably be fine.

Quote from: dalebert on October 04, 2012, 11:22:17 PM
You also need to be somewhat conscious of not being perceived as a "->-bleeped-<-". I'm not completely sure what attributes make one a ->-bleeped-<- vs. someone who is trans-friendly in a positive way. It has something to do with it being a fetish I think, but I think where that line is varies from one person to another and can be very fuzzy.

In my opinion, what makes someone a ->-bleeped-<- is when they think on some level, being with a trans person is different than being with a cis person (and implicitly, somewhat better). So sexually for example - making assumptions about how a trans person wants to have sex and finding that arousing. Or assuming that trans people have some differences in terms of personality that make them more attractive than cis people. Because as I see it, trans people are just as diverse as cis people, so to assume any "generalizations", whether they have positive intentions or not, makes the trans person "othered" based on their trans status. Like a lot of people like trans men because they think they are "brave." Not so. A lot of trans men I have met drive me nuts, and act really immature/cowardly (lol, now some people might worry if I mean them specifically).

Just my two cents there. I'm sure others will disagree.

Quote from: edderkopp on October 04, 2012, 11:28:47 PM
Just my two cents there. I'm sure others will disagree.

That sounds like prejudice to me which seems like something else than being a "->-bleeped-<-". I don't disagree with what you said though, as far as those being real issues that some people have. It makes perfect sense to be turned off by people who make assumptions about people just for being trans.

There's the other side of that coin too where someone could assume that trans people are sort of tragic and needy and people who seek out those they perceive to be desperate because they're actually insecure themselves. Those same types tend to avoid pursuing people whom they perceive to be confident and have good self-esteem.

But I suppose we're getting a bit off topic.

I think part of it is when the attraction and intentions change due to you being how you are. For example there was this dude I was friends with for a while and I ran into him a month or two back we were chillin and playing video games but once he realized I was trans he made a note to say that he really likes trans men better than cis men and started trying to hit on me. I just want to think of myself as one of the dudes but once it changes because of that one little fact its different.

Interesting.  Well, I don't want to be perceived as a ->-bleeped-<-.  That's gross.  I'm Asian and to me it's like those old white guys who like Asian boys that hit on me.  But can't you have preferences in men that don't make you a ->-bleeped-<-?  I like Latino guys for example.  Does that make me a Latino ->-bleeped-<-?  :)

Boston Cis Guy: I met my SO on OK Cupid.  I was not out in my profile, though some guys are.  In fact, my SO had answered one of those gazillion OK Cupid questions that stated that he thought trans people should clearly state in their profile that they were trans.  I always looked to see what their answers to any trans questions were.

I did not come out to him until the 3rd date when it was clear he was really into me, and it was a non-issue.  I am post-op, though.  I did ask what if I was pre-op, would it matter, and he said he couldn't really say, but now that he knows me he doesn't think it would be an issue.

You might put some trans-friendly statement on your profile.  Not that it would attract trans guys, but they would know up front that it was not a turn off.

I don't get the whole ->-bleeped-<- thing; yes they exist, yes, they are gross, and I really just want people to accept me as male, not because I'm trans.  I am of trans history, but I'm just a regular guy with a small penis and a few extra scars. 

Jay

Quote from: sneakersjay on October 05, 2012, 07:03:42 AM

You might put some trans-friendly statement on your profile.  Not that it would attract trans guys, but they would know up front that it was not a turn off.

Thanks!!!  I just put a tiny blurb saying that I was trans-friendly.  That's it.  Just to let people know it was not a turn-off like you said.  My last boyfriend was pre-op and on T and like I said before, it wasn't a problem for me, but rather a problem for him because he was so paranoid that it was going go be a potential problem for me...ugh long story!  Sorry I keep on bringing it up.

Quote from: Bostoncisguy on October 04, 2012, 12:17:15 PM
Thanks, Padma!  I will do that.  I wasn't sure if there was a way to filter things out or not, but that totally makes sense.  Why would you say in your profile that you're trans if you identify with your new gender?  Are there really a lot of guys on that site?  Wish me luck!

I heard many transguys using it, I also tried it myself and seen people I know there so I would say yes.
but its really a long time ago I was there so I dont really know for sure, (I might try make a new account and check it out?
-
to be open in the profil
depends on the site, I have site I said I was trans on and some I dont, the good point in telling straight out your trans is well, then they know and theres no big surprize or comming out moment worried they might or not accept you.
the bad point is that 1 somethimes it might be the first people ask you about insteed of like getting to know you (and I do prefern getting to know people outside my pants insteed of inside out" 2, many people dont know the diffrence between mtf or ftm, and I had alot of ->-bleeped-<- lovers who contacted me on one site like. "hi your cute can I see you while your dressing up like a girl?" very annoying not to mention some just jugde you straight out without knowing anything about trans.

Hahahaha, thanks, Natkat.

Sorry I kinda steered this thread a bit off topic.  So, back to you guys.  How did you figure out that a) you were trans and b) you were gay?  That must have been very confusing!  Or maybe it wasn't.  Feel free to elaborate.  I can't imagine how tough it must have been to figure it out.  I mean, it was hard enough for me to figure out my own orientation, and I'm still figuring it out.

<----P.S. Yay!  I have a face now!  Moving on up!  Now I don't feel like I am a talking computer although if my ex or his friends are on here, that would kinda be awkward.  Oh well!

Quote from: Bostoncisguy on October 05, 2012, 10:12:06 PM
Hahahaha, thanks, Natkat.

Now I don't feel like I am a talking computer although if my ex or his friends are on here, that would kinda be awkward.  Oh well!

LOL yeah I tried that with a teacher on a site, kinda akward way to find out your teacher is gay and into hard anal.
--
well I had a couple of boyfriends when I was a kid but as I turned teen I really lived much like the steryotypical guy who really wanted to prove how manly I was all the time.
I should be though and hardcore, every little thing I did could be like.. "thats so girly" even when it wasn't. it was  just typical teens comparing each other in the straight-normative word of guys who thought there where the strongest and best and I think somehow being trans I had to prove myself even more than the cisgenders.

I was pretty religious while denying my sexualety, my famely is religious but they never really been any extreme or had any jugments for other sexualetys, it was just me who really didnt want to be femenine and gay and so like it was the worst thing. it was like I thought "but im a guy so I cant like guys" (and then later on it turned out I got pretty queer)

Anyway first time I fully knew I liked guys, I was on a soccer team and there where a guy there who made me fight. he was kinda this very maculine guy most of the guys looked up too, and he was great for competitions. he gave me alot of power in the rought time I had during the time (early in transition, famely issues and so), and general we became a good team on the soccer I had joined but on the other hand he also got to steal the girl I liked which make some kinda tense fellings between us.

I denyed I liked him for a long time and that I liked guys in general, he also denyed he liked me and our relationship was a big mess. (the girl I liked)her reacting me for not being a lesbian, him reacting me for not being gay, and deep down he admitted he actually might be bisexual.

after alot of drama, with her liking him, him secretly liking me, me liking both, we all got seperated
I didnt saw them anymore and years after they got together while I had a couple of chrushes on guys and girls.

Being bisexual is kinda confussing cause first I thought I was straight, then I thought I was gay, and bi, or maybe just gay? I have came to the conclusion im just bisexual who dosent really care, my famely dosent care and its way more easy than being trans.

I dont really like my memory on how I came out on my sexualety cause it was a very painfull time for me but what dosent kill you makes you stronger and I did learn alot from the experience and well also important im out of closet and I dont deny myself anymore.

Quote from: Bostoncisguy on October 05, 2012, 10:12:06 PM
Sorry I kinda steered this thread a bit off topic.  So, back to you guys.  How did you figure out that a) you were trans and b) you were gay?  That must have been very confusing!  Or maybe it wasn't.  Feel free to elaborate.  I can't imagine how tough it must have been to figure it out.  I mean, it was hard enough for me to figure out my own orientation, and I'm still figuring it out.

When I was 4 I remember asking myself why my brother and I were both male, but he had a penis and I didn't.  That's when I first knew my sex and gender didn't match up.  Situations like that kept re-occurring my entire life.  I didn't know the term Trans until college, so I didn't "officially" know I was Trans until then, but "unofficially" I've known since I was 4. 

I've always been attracted to men and the men I was attracted to were gay (making sense since I identified male; unfortunately they saw me as female) so once I started T and was starting to finally be seen as male it was easier to comfortably identify as gay.   

Quote from: Bostoncisguy on October 05, 2012, 10:12:06 PM
Sorry I kinda steered this thread a bit off topic.  So, back to you guys.  How did you figure out that a) you were trans and b) you were gay?  That must have been very confusing!  Or maybe it wasn't.  Feel free to elaborate.  I can't imagine how tough it must have been to figure it out.  I mean, it was hard enough for me to figure out my own orientation, and I'm still figuring it out.

<----P.S. Yay!  I have a face now!  Moving on up!  Now I don't feel like I am a talking computer although if my ex or his friends are on here, that would kinda be awkward.  Oh well!

Yay for having a face!  :laugh: I still haven't put my face up - I don't clean up nicely.  :laugh:

As for being trans - I didn't figure it out really until I was in my early teen years. I didn't have much of an idea of what gender was as a kid because I played with a bunch of other country kids. It was a toughest kids get to play here sort of situation. Even in the cases where they said I was a girl and couldn't play I just punched them until they let me. It wasn't until I was about 11 and the physical differences as well as seeing how my dad treated my little brothers so differently I started to form a real idea. I had told my grandparents I was a boy, but they just assumed that I mean I was a tomboy like most kids in the area since we were just rough housing country kids. By the time I was 15 I was always looking for an escape. I read a lot and tried to take myself mentally somewhere else. At the library I found a book for LGBT youth, and that was my first exposure to the term transgender.

As for being gay - that was a rollercoaster. I could write a novel on how I finally figured it out. I was always attracted to guys. But, if I liked guys being a girl made that easier. But I didn't want to be a girl, I wanted to be a man. But only gay men like men, and I am lacking in all the male parts. Eventually I just accepted it. But the kicker - I'm married and my husband is gay. He refused to come out for years, and I'm male and I refused to say it for years. We're a special pair - dense as I'll get out.  :laugh:

Well, I don't have anything quite as interesting or inspiring to say since I'm just a bio guy and I like guys and some girls (mostly lesbians, go figure).  So I'll just admit to something that few people remember about me as a kid.  I asked for AND got a Barbie doll when I turned 8...yep...oh and I totally had a My Little Pony as well...and at the same time I played with Transformers and Matchbox cars.

I've discovered through the small amount of fooling around with other guys that I've done that I really prefer not to "go all the way" with other guys. Mainly because I'm not a bottom at all and most of the other guys I've fooled around with seemed to be either size queens or could not deal with a fake dick. I do know that there are cis gay guys out there though that don't have those particular issues.

Quote from: Bostoncisguy on October 06, 2012, 11:00:32 PM
Well, I don't have anything quite as interesting or inspiring to say since I'm just a bio guy and I like guys and some girls (mostly lesbians, go figure).  So I'll just admit to something that few people remember about me as a kid.  I asked for AND got a Barbie doll when I turned 8...yep...oh and I totally had a My Little Pony as well...and at the same time I played with Transformers and Matchbox cars.

Pssssh. Everyone's got a cool story!

My grandfather used to buy me just about everything, so I had lots of TMNT stuff and I had about a million toy horses. He used to let me dress him up all the time, and I liked to dress him as a princess pirate cowboy. I played with just about anything when I was kid - I had one crazy imagination. Though, I used to perform surgery on my barbie dolls by putting them under stair legs and jumping on them until their chests broke so I could put her in Ken's clothes.  :laugh:

Quote from: insideontheoutside on October 07, 2012, 01:12:16 AM
I do know that there are cis gay guys out there though that don't have those particular issues.

<-----Ummmm....this guy!  I'm not a top and I don't mind silicone or size.  In fact, I was beginning to get so attached to my ex, I now miss him so much, even random things like how his manhood felt against me...hope that wasn't too graphic!

 I was always one of the boys even when I was a girl it was pretty cool. I sorta knew I was trans a long long time ago but wouldn't accept it till the last few years. I grew up in a catholic family first generation American so they were all pretty set in their old ways. I remember before coming out as trans or anything, when I was 13 during thanksgiving dinner no less my brother was saying a lot of homophobic slurs and rants. I simply asked him what would he do if he found out i also liked women and he said he would never talk to me again he didn't up till this year which now I am 22. Now I am mostly out as trans to my family but I have been living on my own since 14.5-15 yrs old so their are a lot who just simply don't know what I do. I only recently have I really started to explore the idea that I might actually be able to be with a guy as a guy because when I was exploring back in high school it didn't go so well. Now I am re-exploring and realized that I might actually be bi not just into women. 

My dad was away on a business trip when my boyfriend broke up with me.  We were only dating for a little over a month and I didn't want to tell him too soon and jinx things.  As soon as he came home, I told him everything and he was very understanding and it didn't even phase him that my ex was trans, not that it should, but you know, people don't always react positively to everything.

BTW Traivs, how did you manage to live on your own at such a young age?  Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel bad that you felt like you had to move out.

got kicked out of my dad's(i didn't do any of the things he claimed btw) and my mom left town it wasn't really by choice but being the person i am and having dominantly older friends i was able to find a roommate pretty easy since I was not old enough to sign the lease myself. I feel it just gives me more life experiences, I don't feel bad about it or feel other people should feel bad for me I got to do what every teen wanted to be free and take responsibility for my actions and learn my own lessons first hand.

Well, as long as you have no regrets that's cool.  It's important to have good friends who can help you out.

Yeah good friends are important and stick with you no matter how much you change i am lucky to have several of those

I thought I was gay up until I was like 14 when I realized I'd been crushing on most of the girls who were my best friends at some point.
I was actually really relieved to be bi because for some weird reason I was super depressed thinking I was gay and that it was way worse to be both trans and gay. :icon_blink: Idk why I thought that hahah, cus being straight wouldn't make anything any easier.

Just wanted to say that I have been away from this post for a few days and can't believe what I have missed.

I didn't know that there were dating sites just for transmen, so thank you so much for sharing that Natkat. I have a partner and he is very accepting of me so I am not looking for anyone, but that is definitely a wonderful resource for the community. I agree the payment requirement sucks, but it's awesome that those sites are now available and hopefully there will be more in the future, possibly run by ad revenue rather than payments.

-----

Boston I just wanted to say two things: first off, you rock for accepting your dude as he is and it's a shame that he was so insecure that it couldn't work out. Second, there actually are a lot of transguys out there who are secure in the fact that people can be just as attracted to them as a cisguy and more so. Not everyone is that comfortable and it may take some searching, but good for you to keep looking and not let one unsuccessful relationship steer you away from other transmen. :)


Oh and  I don't think anyone would be offended by the idea that you'd help your partner with paying for surgery. In fact, most guys I have talked to would welcome something like that :P I am getting top surgery in a week and I was lucky to find a super cheap Dr who is confident enough in his abilities to state that if I needed revisions, they would be free. Bottom surgery is a whole 'nother ball field though. I think a lot of people can appreciate the difference between true help and throwing money at them. After all, someone who insists on expensive dinners and gifts and vacations all the time would seem maybe like they're desperate for you to like them, but I don't think any dude would be offended if their partner tried to help them with, say, reconstructive surgery after an illness or accident, and with the way most of us think of our bodies, we do consider transition to be just as necessary as any other insured medical care so it's not really seen as frivolous.

-----

I have always known I was attracted to guys. Never been into girls in that way. TBH I was sort of promiscuous when I was younger, which got me into a lot of trouble. After all, they expect that sort of thing from guys only, and my family was not accepting of my gender, so they acted like it was the end of the world. I was always very comfortable getting intimate with people and I like to bottom, so PIV sex was never something that triggered dysphoria in me.

I dressed in big baggy shorts with tall white socks or in baggy ripped up jeans and wore a lot of wifebeaters and t-shirts, not really girly stuff, and I wore a baseball hat every single day. Always I would be in a relationship and then later find out the guy was gay or bisexual, which I didn't mind except for one guy who decided he couldn't be with me (both of us like to bottom), so that was disheartening.

I had always wanted to feel right in my body, and believed in reincarnation because I saw myself as a guy stuck in the wrong body. To this day I still see reincarnation as a possibility, although I feel a lot happier and better as I am transitioning, less of the distressed and hopeless thoughts that I used to have when I thought I would only be happy in my next life. I am seeing just how good life can be. Aside from the fact that I have a health problem (reproductive organs but hopefully fixed soon) and am going to need one more surgery to feel like a 'normal' guy, life does get better and I am seeing more of that good side all the time. Except when dealing with insurance companies. Then it just sucks  :P

Oh my God, good luck, ChaoticTribe!  And thanks for backing me up!  So, I met a guy on a regular every day site, and we're going on a date within the next week.  I hope he's more mature than my ex, and since he's had top surgery, he is probably more comfortable and confident about himself.  ->-bleeped-<-, he has a topless pic of himself.  Anyway, I think I'm gonna delete my profile pic because I don't want to give the impression that I'm a ->-bleeped-<- if he's on here.  Oh one thing I've noticed when I came across other trans men on that mainstream site is that they often say in their profile that they're trans.  This guy doesn't mention it at all, and he's got a pic of himself scars and all, which implies to me that he knows he's a guy and doesn't have to label himself as a trans guy or a short guy or an American guy--just a guy looking to meet other guys.  Wish me luck!  We have been texting back and forth and he seems like a nice guy who has his head on his shoulders and has ambition.

Quote from: sneakersjay on October 05, 2012, 07:03:42 AM
I am of trans history, but I'm just a regular guy with a small penis and a few extra scars.

God I love this.

Quote from: Bostoncisguy on October 11, 2012, 09:06:09 PM
Oh my God, good luck, ChaoticTribe!  And thanks for backing me up!  So, I met a guy on a regular every day site, and we're going on a date within the next week.  I hope he's more mature than my ex, and since he's had top surgery, he is probably more comfortable and confident about himself.  ->-bleeped-<-, he has a topless pic of himself.  Anyway, I think I'm gonna delete my profile pic because I don't want to give the impression that I'm a ->-bleeped-<- if he's on here.  Oh one thing I've noticed when I came across other trans men on that mainstream site is that they often say in their profile that they're trans.  This guy doesn't mention it at all, and he's got a pic of himself scars and all, which implies to me that he knows he's a guy and doesn't have to label himself as a trans guy or a short guy or an American guy--just a guy looking to meet other guys.  Wish me luck!  We have been texting back and forth and he seems like a nice guy who has his head on his shoulders and has ambition.

You're welcome, and thanks a whole bunch! I agree it is definitely a good sign for his self confidence that he's posted a topless pic of himself. Shows he is okay and even happy with that part of his body at least :)

As for mentioning trans-ness, everyone has a different idea about it. Me personally, on a non-dating site, I wouldn't mention it unless it were somehow relevant to friendships, as here. On a dating site however guys who DO mention have their own reasons: some of them, like me, are not willing to waste time 'weeding out' guys who only care about one thing: the other dude's penis. Especially those of us who like PIV sex (me included) and even prefer that type of intercourse.

Other guys may mention being trans to avoid the awkwardness and hurt that sometimes occurs when people get close to you and you bond enough to be really hurt by rejection when they care more about what's between your legs than you as a person. Some other people may have been assaulted in the past, or perhaps they just like to mention it out in the open because 'coming out' is always awkward, but meeting people online you can get that out of the way to begin with and avoid those late nights staying up and being anxious.

I think of myself as just any other guy, and I expect to be treated that way in public, but when looking for a relationship sexual compatibility is very important to me and while I will be more comfortable with my genitals once I get a metoidioplasty, I am not at all uncomfortable having a vagina and would be very displeased if I ended up loving someone who was just awkward or uncomfortable about that part of my body, even if we could still make it work somehow. I would way rather date someone who was turned on and into it, even to the point of a fetish, as long as they still were in a *relationship* with me and not just there for sex.

Quote from: ChaoticTribe on October 19, 2012, 06:32:21 PM
...some of them, like me, are not willing to waste time 'weeding out' guys who only care about one thing: the other dude's penis. Especially those of us who like PIV sex (me included) and even prefer that type of intercourse.

I think of myself as just any other guy, and I expect to be treated that way in public, but when looking for a relationship sexual compatibility is very important to me and while I will be more comfortable with my genitals once I get a metoidioplasty, I am not at all uncomfortable having a vagina and would be very displeased if I ended up loving someone who was just awkward or uncomfortable about that part of my body, even if we could still make it work somehow. I would way rather date someone who was turned on and into it, even to the point of a fetish, as long as they still were in a *relationship* with me and not just there for sex.

I'm going to address this from the other direction as a gay cis guy. I remember more than one post here where guys said they didn't want to date a guy who was only interested in what's between their legs. But if a guy is only interested in vaginas, wouldn't he just date women?

Surely the overwhelming majority of all men out there (and women too), gay or straight, have a preference for certain genitals, i.e. for straight guys a vagina, for gay guys a penis. But if a gay guy dares to express a preference for vaginas and PIV sex with another guy, it seems he's immediately judged as a fetishist. If anything, it makes more sense to call the penis-obsessed guys fetishists. All preferences are valid, of course, but, after all, preferring a vagina when you have a penis or preferring a penis when you have a vagina seems fairly mainstream. My sexual orientation seems to be about everything else that defines manhood and it just seems weird to me when other people make it about genitals. That's fine and valid, but it's just not something I can relate to personally.

I've only ever dated cis guys and I've learned to like a penis, but I feel like that evolves out of necessity--a matter of being innovative and finding things to do when you and the person you're attracted to both have the same thing. And ultimately what turns me on about a penis is that it's the most obvious means of giving pleasure to my partner which is obviously pretty important in sex.

Quote from: dalebert on October 20, 2012, 01:15:32 PMI remember more than one post here where guys said they didn't want to date a guy who was only interested in what's between their legs.

By "here" I mean on this forum, not this particular thread.

Quote from: dalebert on October 20, 2012, 01:15:32 PM
I'm going to address this from the other direction as a gay cis guy. I remember more than one post here where guys said they didn't want to date a guy who was only interested in what's between their legs. But if a guy is only interested in vaginas, wouldn't he just date women?

Surely the overwhelming majority of all men out there (and women too), gay or straight, have a preference for certain genitals, i.e. for straight guys a vagina, for gay guys a penis. But if a gay guy dares to express a preference for vaginas and PIV sex with another guy, it seems he's immediately judged as a fetishist. If anything, it makes more sense to call the penis-obsessed guys fetishists. All preferences are valid, of course, but, after all, preferring a vagina when you have a penis or preferring a penis when you have a vagina seems fairly mainstream. My sexual orientation seems to be about everything else that defines manhood and it just seems weird to me when other people make it about genitals. That's fine and valid, but it's just not something I can relate to personally.

I've only ever dated cis guys and I've learned to like a penis, but I feel like that evolves out of necessity--a matter of being innovative and finding things to do when you and the person you're attracted to both have the same thing. And ultimately what turns me on about a penis is that it's the most obvious means of giving pleasure to my partner which is obviously pretty important in sex.

^^^This. Thanks.

Even in TG communities, I've encountered the cissexist idea that it is "normal" and "expected" for someone to like their women with vulvas and their guys with penises, but if it's the other way around they're perverts or fetishists or "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s" - especially if they are cis.
The fact is, some people are only/more attracted to people who have a certain set of genitalia, some people are only/more attracted to people of a certain gender identity, and some people are only/more attracted to people with a specific combination of gender identity and genitalia. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's only a fetish if it's a creepy obsession or if one sees the people they are attracted to as nothing more but sex objects.

I'm trans, I'm rather content with what I've got between my legs, and I'm tired of hearing that we shouldn't date someone who likes us in part because of what we have down there, but instead someone who likes us despite of it.

I sure as hell don't want to date someone who sees some or all of my body as a flaw but likes me despite of it. I want someone who loves everything about me, and I deserve nothing less.

Nicely put. Yeah I had a gay friend who completely freaked when I told him I was trans. Not at all what I expected though maybe I should have. Still it hurt big time. Thing is: he is actually the exception to the rule. A lot of guys are a lot less absolute in that area it seems I just haven't met a whole lot of them lol. As for what's between the legs.. it's not just FtMs that have self image issues dealing with small packages.. that too seems fairly common.. I think Natkat said it better than I could.. if you have a small package (cis or trans alike) a large assortment of toys makes a big difference..  ;D

I think my tendency to end up with smaller and/or pretty guys, even before I knew I was trans, may be why I've seemingly "turned them gay/bi".  I think I picked up on the covert "not straight" vibes, and they picked up on the "not female" ones, but it never ends up working in the end.  For the moment, as I'm pre-T and pre-op (and likely to remain this way indefinitely unless the waiting list situation around here eases up), I'm just not actively dating.  I have a mostly-straight-but-bi-enough friend with benefits when necessary, though.  The amount of hate I've seen towards gay transguys on the internet (comments section on Queerty is always a good place to find it) scares the hell out of me, though, leaves me convinced I'll find myself a bloody pulp in the gutter should I ever manage to pass and then hit on a cisguy.

I figured out I was gay before I figured out I was trans.  That led to some confusion, because while I knew I wasn't into women (though I thought I *should* be -> how most boys are socially conditioned that they're expected to like women + gay with a female body = everyone expects you to bring home a girlfriend...), "straight" just didn't really fit, though I did give it a fair try, I think.

I've been trying to figure out how to put this into words lol..
I recently got a picture of myself when I was somewhere between two and three. I insisted on "boy" underwear because I was a boy. Now I am not "out" so this story was told to me as a funny anecdote. When did I figure out I'm trans? Somewhere along the way the boy underwear got replaced with girls underwear. I probably sort of figured it out then.
Gay. It always makes me feel bad that I have such a vivid imagination. The role I wanted sexually pretty much is very hard to do with either a straight guy or a gay girl (they're unlikely to be interested in that). I figured it out quicker than some other things, but it takes a bit to get past shy. I grew up feeling like a freak. That makes it hard to be anything other than socially awkward.. still working on that.. anyone else?

Dalebert I 100% agree with your post :)

Wish more people saw it that way. I bet there are a lot of dudes who feel the same and are nervous about striking up interaction with someone because they don't want to come across wrong.

Thanx, ChaoticTribe. I thought of another way to put it more succinctly.

I'm gay, 100%, so I can't even say that a male appearance and a male identity is a preference. That's pretty much mandatory. I just can't see women in a romantic or sexual manner. I wish I were bi or pan, but it just isn't me. It is, however, a preference that my partner have gonads that are complimentary to mine. That, however, definitely is just a preference. Every guy I have ever dated has had a penis and it has not been an issue. We managed to have great sex. So obviously what is between my partner's legs is not all I care about; not even close. In fact one of the fastest ways for a guy to turn me off is to brag about their size down there, like posting it right on an online profile, because it is so far down on my list of things that I care about in a partner and it implies that our priorities are likely way out of sync. Even when I primarily identified as a bottom, I didn't care about such things.

I like guys and I like non-binary people, and I don't really care about body parts. As for disclosing, I'm mostly stealth now and still with the same guy, who was the first person I came out to and doesn't care about body parts, but likes butch presenting people.

Recently I've been dealing with a ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-. He's into both mtf and ftm, and often times ask for me to give hime pics of my bf and I (perverted stuff...) or to have "fun" with him. I find it creepy and annoying. It so far doesn't seem like he's interested in me, he's more interested that I'm a guy who has a vagina. He has even offered to buy me a "strap-on" for Christmas. IDK what to do. :( It's so creepy...

Quote from: AmirAxel on November 21, 2012, 01:22:01 PM
Recently I've been dealing with a ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-. He's into both mtf and ftm, and often times ask for me to give hime pics of my bf and I (perverted stuff...) or to have "fun" with him. I find it creepy and annoying. It so far doesn't seem like he's interested in me, he's more interested that I'm a guy who has a vagina. He has even offered to buy me a "strap-on" for Christmas. IDK what to do. :( It's so creepy...

Ho ho merry christmas here is your dildo lets see if your been naughty or nice.. 8)
LOL

well wellcome to my world, I thought I was the only one who had ftm ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s after me,
I personally dont mind if im in the mood, and if there respectfull enough to take a no as a no,

Yeah, I know I'm a few pages late. But whatever. I didn't see this addressed adequately.

Quote from: Ave on September 21, 2012, 02:27:52 PM
Let me say that again for you: "Of course, it's just MY thinking"

That "less tall = less man" or "More tall = more man = more good" statement was probably one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Sure, it may be "your thinking" but just saying "this is my thinking" doesn't mean that you're not just patently wrong.

So let's just clear one thing up: You can't just say whatever you want and then hide behind a statement that basically says "I thought it and so I can say it and you can't argue, because it's just what I think." You'd best be prepared for argument.

So exactly how short is "short"? Anything under 6'? Anything under 5'10"? Anyone 5'8" or shorter? Anyone shorter than you? What's the metric here? Regardless, it seems like whatever number you pick to be the adequately manly height would probably be completely arbitrary.

You are talking here at a group of people who were (for the most part) born female, and so I would be willing to bet money on the average height among any of us transmen reading this thread being ~5'6" or shorter. And what you basically did was say "Hey, you short people who call yourselves 'masculine' -- WANNA KNOW WHAT I THINK? You're all inherently less masculine and therefore less good than tall men." I don't think you've exactly got any right to act indignant when someone calls you out.

It's one thing to say "I like tall guys" but that is NOT the implication of what you wrote.

Coming here and saying such a thing as taller=more masculine=better, considering the audience and the setting, is at best oblivious and insensitive and at worst outright dickish and insensitive.

Quote from: Christopher_Marius on November 21, 2012, 07:28:32 PM
Coming here and saying such a thing as taller=more masculine=better, considering the audience and the setting, is at best oblivious and insensitive and at worst outright dickish and insensitive.

I addressed this issue soon after the post appeared and someone else complained. Ave says that he mentally connects shortness with masculinity and that he sees masculinity as good. He then follows it up with a statement that this is just the way he thinks. He does not say that short guys ARE less masculine and that they ARE lesser human beings. I feel that he is simply reporting his own perception and preference, and I feel that you are putting words in his mouth and misquoting him, then taking him to task for something he did not actually say.

However, that is one mod's opinion. If you believe that I did not address this post properly, feel free to report it for moderation, unless you have done so already.