Selfish implies it is a choice.  No one asks straight men if being straight and a man is selfish.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on December 30, 2012, 10:50:08 PM
http://drsusanaxtell.com/is-it-ever-right-to-be-selfish/

I like the article Shawn. Are you saying that transitioning is selfish?

Once again people, the topic isn't if transition is okay or when it's ok to be selfish (though those are welcome points  ) so much as just whether or not transition itself is selfish.

Quote from: opheliaxen on December 30, 2012, 11:03:43 PM
Selfish implies it is a choice.  No one asks straight men if being straight and a man is selfish.

Well, that's a good point, except I wasn't saying that being gay or trans is a choice. However, whether you actually go through with transition or not is. 

If the end result makes you a better person towards other people , then its not selfish, even if people feel hurt by your decision to transition.

Quote from: opheliaxen on December 30, 2012, 11:03:43 PM
Selfish implies it is a choice.  No one asks straight men if being straight and a man is selfish.

  Well, I have met an awful lot of selfish straight men!

(And incase anyone thinks I'm picking on one group, there are an awful lot of selfish people out there of all stripes...)

Speaking personally, I think in all honesty my life growing up, coming to terms with who I am, and dealing with that on a daily basis is probably far more selfish than transition could ever be. Because throughout all that time, I've been more focused on myself and how I feel - how everything in the world affects me and my internal sense of self - whether I want to be or not. It's just how things filter through my mind. Feeling different in your own skin causes you to question yourself, your relationships with others, how other people treat you is a reflection on who you are. For me it's something that's difficult to get away from because there aren't a whole lot of things that don't impact that in some way. And in that, I think I'm rather selfish for constantly assessing how I fit into the world, and how it fits in with me.

I've lost some dear friends and made some enemies because of the effects that not transitioning has caused, mostly because I think I've been wrapped up in myself, and sometimes the misery that dysphoria and the all pervading feeling of being different, and not myself has caused. I have not been so outgoing and perhaps not as friendly as I could have been. Distancing myself from people in need when I could have done something simply because I was too busy thinking about how bad I was feeling myself.

That, I think, is very selfish. And while I wish it were not the case, unfortunately it seemed unavoidable.

In answer to the question, I suppose it's a matter of perspective. My own view is that transition is, in large part, an attempt to actually be rid of quite so much selfishness by allowing oneself to be able to focus outwards for once, instead of inwards through dealing with the discomfort that not doing it causes. And in the long term, to aim to be able to be more unselfish towards others and in general.

This reminds me of a striking, surprising comment from a close friend I was coming out to recently; a comment which shocked me and left me speechless (not an easy thing to accomplish     )

I had just told him and his wife about me and told them, as I have said before, I finally had a choice of writing my family a suicide note, or a transition letter. It was either accept myself of kill myself. To which his knee jerk response before he realized what he was saying, was to blurt out "... Maybe killing yourself would be better."

Needless to say, I was stunned. This is a very close friend I've known for years, not given to rash statements. He would never say such a thing if he had been thinking clearly, but under the shock of my revelation, it was an honest knee jerk reaction reflecting how abhorrent he found transition.

This friend has warmed to the idea a good bit, but is still not entirely comfortable with my plans. I still consider him a friend, but that comment hurt me deeply and the wound has still not healed.

Painful words hurt all the more from someone you care about.

Transition is only selfish, if there is some alternative available. If as many have said, there are two cures for dysphoria, transition and death, and if death is rejected as an acceptable alternative, then transition cannot be selfish. Perhaps the timing of transition may be more or less selfish, to the degree that can be managed at all. For most of us who are TS, questions of "selfishness" are irrelevant, transition seems to be inevitable.

JMHO YMMV

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on December 30, 2012, 11:37:06 PM
If the end result makes you a better person towards other people , then its not selfish, even if people feel hurt by your decision to transition.

I second that. If people just consider "transitioning is selfish" with no strings attached, so you're just generalizing what is to transition.

In many cases, we are just trying to figure out *who* we are. So it may *look* selfish at the first glance, but after realizing you can really become a better person just because there is a reason to laugh, to live after transitioning, it is a blessing to the person who transitions and the people involved just because life can become truer.

We should aim for telling the truth the better way we can, so that people can figure out what is going on. Some just may not grasp what we talk about, but that's life.

Sometimes it will hurt badly someone. But that's for the better. Better than living a secretive life and in many cases wishing to die, wishing to disappear, wondering if we can live another way that's not the way we need to...

When applicable, transitioning is just... needed.

Quote from: DianaP on December 30, 2012, 09:56:22 PM
I remember one time when we were too late, and the building started to collapse. A little boy's dad was still in the building. He tossed his son (who was too scared to jump) onto the trampoline device we use to catch people when they want to jump to safety, but we weren't quick enough to set up for the kid's dad. The place collapsed and when all was said and done, we found his body, completely burnt like an overcooked turkey. The look on that kid's face was the worst thing you could've ever seen. I only looked at it for a few seconds, but it felt like hours. He then asked me the most tear-jerking question ever: "If I wasn't so scared, would there have been enough time?" The worst part was that all I could do for him was give him a hug and someone else to cry with. That was his dad, my failure. I will carry that with me like everything else.

OMG sweetie. I can't imagine. <Big Hug> Please don't call it your failure. I'm sure you did everything you could.
You're performing an awesome and selfless service out there as you know.

As to the question, like Jamie and others, no I don't think transition is selfish in itself, though I suppose it can be in some circumstances.

I'll give my feeling despite being late to the party.

I'm seeing my transition as very selfish.

Instead of a husband whom she can count on and who enhances her status, my wife finds herself suddenly married to someone whose presentation embarrasses her and about whom she must explain and educate her friends. She never had the slightest interest in being married to a woman and now she must decide either to stay in a marriage that doesn't reflect her sexual orientation or to renounce her wedding vows and leave me at the very time I most need support.

My kids, instead of having a father they can be proud to bring their friends home to, are stuck instead with a female parent who is not their mother, and for whom they don't even have a name. My daughter will attend a school where her former father, and by association she, will be a object of attention, gawking, and possibly ridicule.

And I don't have to to transition. The choice is really clear. I COULD decide to continue living indefinitely as a male. The only consequence would be the daily regret of wondering how life would have been different if I'd had the courage to follow my dream and the incongruity of not living as I really am. Though that sounds unbearably bleak and painful, I have no doubt I'd be tough enough to endure it and resourceful enough to make the best of it.

No its not selfish.

I won't suffer for the comfort of others.

If anything, not allowing you to transition is selfish on the part of family, friends, society.

That's my opinion being young and single but for a married person with kids it might be a different story.

Thats a hard one because,if we look at the aspect of *hiding who we really are and that in its self is selfish* that can be debated on many levels.Depending on *why* you hide or push back what you know to be true,can be seen as non selfish.For example,when i first came out i seen my first reaction of my mother.I hid away and said to myself *well maybe it will just go away* but seeing how she reacted to that hiding plainly made me sick.Inside i suffered the most pain i have ever felt during that time,she told me i needed to be a better woman,how i needed to do this and that,how i needed to dress better so i stopped myself and thought *wait..if im being selfish then what is this? she already knew everything as i told her,about the suicide,about what it was doing to me and even knowing this,she wishs me to remain there?* so even during my *selfless denial for the benefit of others* i could not see myself as being selfish because in all honesty,had that been the case-i would still be doing it,i would still be taking those kicks.So what my point is,many deny their self for those they love and in return,yes get nothing back but guilt,pain and many other very bad outcomes.in my opinion,coming out in its self is best seen as being *selfish* BUT on a good scale.i can only speak by experience of what i know for myself but i have officially lost everything because i was *selfish*....but then agian i was the one who pampered everyone and put them on a high cloud above everything else so im to blame for that one

When I decided I had to transition, the only person it really would have affected was my father. We were living in the same house and had been for 10 years when I started hrt. I didn't tell him about the hormones until I was a year in and the effects of it couldn't be hidden anymore. Actually, his girlfriend had mentioned to him that it looked like I was on hormones as they both knew I had issues with gender. At about the same time, he was diagnosed with throat cancer and the house had been heavily damaged by Hurricane Isabel and the storm surge had flooded us. I had insurance to cover the flood damage and we were planning on doing major remodeling at the same time since it made the most sense. I gave him three choices, I could sign the house over to him and walk away, I could stay long enough to do the repairs and remodel and then sign it over and walk away or stay, do everything that needed doing and transition here, but either way I had to transition, he had no choice in whether I did that or not. He chose the latter and some might think it selfish of him in a way as he knew he needed me around as his disease progressed. It actually worked out well, he adjusted to me and even came to accept me as his daughter. After he passed I even found the first birthday card I gave him as his daughter as he had saved it and he wasn't generally one for saving that sort of thing. He even wanted to pay for my surgery, but I decided that it would be too selfish of me to take the money that should be used to make his last few years the best they could be under the circumstances. He actually beat the throat cancer, but not the lung cancer that came a little bit later.

The only person who did tell me I was selfish was my grandmother, but it was mostly because she thought I was hurting my father by wanting to do it. She preceded my dad in passing by three years when she developed lung cancer. None of my siblings took issue with it beyond a few minor hangups my brothers had to get over, but have since gotten over. They were just glad that I was there to take care of dad when they couldn't.

So yeah, people don't have to be selfish in the process of transitioning if they so choose, unfortunately, some feel they have to do it at all costs, even at the cost of causing major upheaval in the lives of those who may depend on them. I don't judge them for their choices though as I am not in their shoes just as they weren't in mine.  It never seems right to condemn people for trying to find what makes them happiest in their lives.

Quote from: HthrRsln on December 31, 2012, 04:43:39 AM
This reminds me of a striking, surprising comment from a close friend I was coming out to recently; a comment which shocked me and left me speechless (not an easy thing to accomplish     )

I had just told him and his wife about me and told them, as I have said before, I finally had a choice of writing my family a suicide note, or a transition letter. It was either accept myself of kill myself. To which his knee jerk response before he realized what he was saying, was to blurt out "... Maybe killing yourself would be better."

Needless to say, I was stunned. This is a very close friend I've known for years, not given to rash statements. He would never say such a thing if he had been thinking clearly, but under the shock of my revelation, it was an honest knee jerk reaction reflecting how abhorrent he found transition.

This friend has warmed to the idea a good bit, but is still not entirely comfortable with my plans. I still consider him a friend, but that comment hurt me deeply and the wound has still not healed.

Painful words hurt all the more from someone you care about.

Transition is only selfish, if there is some alternative available. If as many have said, there are two cures for dysphoria, transition and death, and if death is rejected as an acceptable alternative, then transition cannot be selfish. Perhaps the timing of transition may be more or less selfish, to the degree that can be managed at all. For most of us who are TS, questions of "selfishness" are irrelevant, transition seems to be inevitable.

JMHO YMMV

I read that and my first reaction was hoping you spit on him and walked away forever.  After thinking about it for a bit, I realized that I said the same damn thing to MYSELF when I finally realized who I was and what that meant. We struggle with this for a while and do lots of research as we are arriving at "self realization" and say a LOT of very negative things to ourselves.

That's why I don't think it's a good idea to come out to people in person because you are putting them on the spot.  They go from sipping on a margarita over dinner to a sudden change of conversation that flips their world view upside down and as they try to get their head around this (holy ->-bleeped-<-, my best-friend/son/daughter is one of those freaks from Jerry Springer) they have no privacy to think out loud and do some research before responding to you.

Nope, for the same reason that being lesbian or gay is not selfish: It is your life, no one else has the right to tell you how you feel or toward whom to feel it. Period. That applies to parents, children, spouses, strangers. If anything, the person objecting to "your lifestyle" is the selfish party, forcing their own beliefs on you at the expense of your happiness.

Interesting question that I have been asking myself for years. 
Only recently (last week) my therapist shared with me that "transitioning is medicaly neessary as it is impossible to fight and only gets worse over time". She also shared with me the Medical Necessity Statement from WPATH for some light reading. I am now on a quest to learn from those ahead of me how, when and who to see in Vancouver BC for help.
Suggestions please.

I feel more guilty about not transisioning than I would have done if I had had.