Jayce its a great question and I'll look at it when i calm down again, Id like to think about it.

You know you talked me into staying on forum, right?

Well my mother taught me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, to not say anything at all, so I'm keeping my mouth shut. But rest assured there is plenty I could say, I'm just not saying it, mainly because I've seen what happens. If you read this and it feels like an attack, ask yourself why. And if you do goddess please think before typing an answer in haste.

I pretty much lived in my own head until I was 17, at which point I started rebelling and never really stopped, there have been times when I've gone deep down the rabbit hole of substance abuse, but it always come back after scaring myself. If something stops being fun I just stop. Skateboarding is probably my drug of choice these days, but I'm not sure if it's less or more socially acceptable.

Quote from: Taka on November 14, 2014, 01:22:27 AM
a robot with too many programmers? maybe that wasn't the right word for what i meant, i hope you still understand it though, because i can't find a different word for this act where you only do what others told you to, and try to not even have your own emotions or opinions about it.
what you describe here, is the fuzziness i feel about you. if the effort were conscious, you'd probably do a much better job of masking the true self, and i'd have a clear, but wrong, picture of who you are.

Maybe I should have emphasized the "not very good at it" part.

Having kids has given me a whole new perspective on my growing up.  After seeing them and how they grow, I've realized that my whole family -- both parents' sides -- are the kind of people who aren't very good at being molded into something else.  We are what we are, and you either take us as we are, or you might as well move along and spare yourself a lot of frustration.

When I was growing up, everyone had the idea that children are a blank slate and can be turned into whatever you want to turn them into, you just have to beat on them long enough.  I call it the "if the screw doesn't fit, get a bigger hammer" approach, and we got hammered a lot.  It left me convinced that "everything I do is wrong" (cf. the song "Go Down, Hannah"), but it didn't actually turn me into a Good Collegiate Boy (Collegiate = the school's name.)  It did leave me with a life-long loathing for the state I grew up in and alienation from pretty much everything and everyone associated with my growing up.

The plus side is that, when my sons came along, I was sensitive to the possibility that the conventional child-rearing "wisdom" might be wrong.  There have been plenty of times when we'd get some advice from an "expert" and I'd look at my kids and realize, nope, this is not going to work, it's just going to be a train wreck.  But where my parents in that situation would assume that the experts knew better than they and would keep following the advice even when it was obvious it wasn't working, I never assume that the experts know best.  (The hardest times have been when it was obvious the experts didn't have a clue and I knew I didn't, either.  All I could do was to hold them and try to show them I loved them and then try stuff almost at random.)

I wish I could say I've managed to make their growing up easier or less demoralizing than mine, but at least I think they have the sense that I'm on their side.

I have lived days on end in a hell of man's making, killing people who I never met and never knew, picking my buddies brains off my face, rolling him and others up in their ponchos and loading them aboard choppers to be sent back home to their horrified parents amid the jeers and insults of protesting mobs. That was my in former lifetime, and now wishing for a quieter, more peaceful existence I sought to change my life from who I was to who I am. I have come to the place where I expect calmness and tranquility, I espouse serenity over drama. I can't help anyone achieve that in their own lives but I can encourage them to exercise self control. Many saw Rodney King as just another oversized, inebriated, drugged black man who took a brutal beating from the police, but out of that came the most poignant question of our time, "Can't we just all get along?" I'm asking the members of this forum that same pregnant question, each has to answer that within their own selves. I'll not condemn the moderators, they're not perfect either but they do what they feel is expedient at the moment and act as an extension of Susan's will in order to keep the site from becoming a war zone. Let's all exercise love, joy, peace and kindness and above all self control!

I relate to what Asche has said. I was tough on my two boys because my dad was tough on me and it seemed to work. However I found out that once I acquiesced to the idea they they were their own distinctly different and unique little human beings and took my foot off the backs of their necks before I crushed their spirits, they became who they were destined to become in spite of me.

my weird experience is that my mother guided me with an iron hand through childhood and adolescense. not because that's what happened to her, but because she blames her parents for having caused her a lot of misery by not forcing her to do things that she didn't really want todo back then. and for not locking jer in her room when she wanted to go out to party or meet a boyfriend.
she tried to do all the things to me that she thinks she needed when she was young.
she even still compares me to her, and that is one thing that infuriates me, she doesn't try to relate ti me as a completely different person even when i tell her i am not like her.

but... i still can't keep blaming her for my own misery. the misery in childhood, yes. but any current misery is mine to hold or throw away. can't blame her for my own mistakes as an adult. i blame her a lot for the things she does to my younger siblings though, i do feel like i have a right to protect them when i want to.

Taka in relation to two sides of the coin... or was it three. Our whole world is filled with polarizations. Either dark or light. One side of the coin or the other. Male or female. This or that. I mean we can't experience light and dark at the same time. We can't see both sides of the coin at the same time unless you have a mirror. But you are only seeing an image and not the actually both sides at the same time. Male or female, most people experience one or the other. This is where we come in. This is what I believe gives us so much trouble and strife. We can experience one or the other or both at the same time. Feeling male or female is not as confusing as feeling both at the same time. Oh yeah feeling female while trying to be male is not the easiest thing to pull off. Vice versa with feeling male and trying to be female I assume. But that can be rectified trough medicine. It's when you feel both at the same time that we are actually experiencing seeing both sides of the coin at the same time. Which is physically impossible. Kind of like taking us out of a 3 demensional world and throwing us into a whole different meaning of existance.

It's not really that bad and does have advantages to it but feeling both or experiencing both sets of characteristics physchologically, emotionally and or physically is sort of a conflict between two oppsites. It does make things harder in our lives. Oh yeah, getting bullied, called names, being left out and so on. But In my opinion we are lucky (even though it don't seem much like it) that we have a great sense of empathy for people of both genders. That when we talk with people of the oposite physical gender as our physical gender, we can truly understand what they feel and can identify with the emotions they are experiencing. So yeah, we see the third side of the coin which is nothing more than seeing both sides at the same time. Feels physically impossible and surreal. But it is there. Has been there all along. I think most people have differing levels of this but refuse to see themselves as anything but physical male or physical female due to body parts. But what most people in the world fail to recognize is that body parts isn't what makes a human being a person. That all comes from within due to personalities, you can have good and bad. Emotions, you can choose to hide them away or display them openly. And many other variables.

Anyway. I am who I am. I have tried to be my percieved birth gender. Failed miserably. Then was stuck with it for four years. I really don't think full transition is right for me either. Just for me though. It feels like I need to make and find a way for both to exist in harmony regardless of the outside, which that is kind of not really normal male or female either. For me it used to feel like a conflict inside. Either, Or. Now, even though the female is more prevailant in thought processes, emotions and so on, the male is still in the background. Until needed, which I hope that part is not ever needed again. So I guess I may have found the perfect balance between both. So seeing both sides of the coin is more normal. I just had to look through more female eyes than male. But still both though. It really is hard to make sense of it because it is seemingly physically impossible, but mentally though anything is possible.

yeah, that is a little bit righter. thank you jess.

i was really just having to write the feeling while it was there. it's too late when it disappears, even if that's when i can explain it best.
kind of like that feeling needs its own voice too.

What happened to my two to three sided gender fluid f-nieces and m-nephews?  Come home kids, time for dinner!

Quote from: Shantel on November 14, 2014, 07:09:45 PM
What happened to my two to three sided gender fluid f-nieces and m-nephews?  Come home kids, time for dinner!

Wathcha cookin' Aunti Shan? You can alway adopt me. I can be an m-niece or an f-nephew.

Sorry for the outburst post, will clean it up and I apologize to the Christians and spiritual folk for the offensive profanity.

Snapped.  That's the trouble with long term abuse.

Will edit but need a computer.

Best to all.

Quote from: Satinjoy on November 15, 2014, 05:15:32 AM
Sorry for the outburst post, will clean it up and I apologize to the Christians and spiritual folk for the offensive profanity.

Snapped.  That's the trouble with long term abuse.

Will edit but need a computer.

Best to all.

Speaking only for myself (should always be assumed), but I don't see what was offensive about the outburst, and I consider myself "spiritual folk" and was raised a Christian.

It might be shocking to those who believe that expressing any negative emotion means you are an agent of Satan or something, but I'm not one of those.  Anger is a normal and, in many cases, the only appropriate response to certain experiences.  And it's better to let it out in a post in a forum where most of the readers (the regular ones, at least) can understand where such anger comes from.  Better than the way a lot of people do it: by making innocent people suffer.

And you did include a trigger warning.

Speaking only for myself, I'd rather people didn't delete or sanitize stuff that's been posted.  A couple of times I've read posts and then gone back and they weren't there any more, and it makes me feel like I've been gaslighted.  Like: did I read that or did I just imagine it?  Am I losing my marbles (even more than I already knew)?

Thank you

Jess42, consider the adoption finale, I have the papers here.

Made a nice beef stew, good for several days with lots of chunks of beef, potatoes, carrots, onion, green beans, canned tomatoes from my garden, two bay leaves, salt, pepper, a bottle of stout Guinness, garlic powder and Worcestershire sauce, made a rue to thicken the gravy, it's delicious, so everyone pull up a seat at the big table and enjoy.

Satinjoy, no gas lighting honey, be a big girl and settle down now and take your place at the table beside Grandma Julie, we all love you!

I need to be quiet for a while, and need also to be here.  Too emotional, could be hormonal, just feels off somehow.

I appreciate everyone's patience.

dear satinjoy.
i appreciate you.
to me, it's not a question of being patient. you're a friend and i love you because of who you are, angry outbursts included.
you wouldn't be you if you didn't do the things that you do.

The first extreme rage, after being beaten up.daily from the third grade by the farm boys, came in a stairwell after yet another is it he or she laugh at sj episode.  The boy wound up on the floor, I impending the air and had my shoes where they would crush his skull.  At the last second, I had just enough restraint to mis.  Then I ran away.

I was very effeminate.  Everywhere I went they called me ->-bleeped-<-got and laughed at me publically.

On a sports bus they had both the wrestling team and.football in a duel match.  One of the players publically started in, and while forcing me sideways started stroking my arm.  He got a knuckle sandwich, but not before the physical she in me responded automatically, while the he just wanted to die, in direct conflict with each other.  This is the first I have spoken of it.

I foughted being trans until my mind shattered, long before coming here, I came here after a year of therapy and nine months of hormones, to the mtf section.

Never let myself get too mad, not since the stairs.

Used to get blind drunk so the physical she could take over and get screwed.

It's been a little rough.

No worse than for any of us..

Satinjoy