Many of those options might be truth. My vote was based on my experience  of the people that makes all to be an androgyne.

Ooooh! I missed this one! Thanks for digging it out goingdown!

I voted that it's a valid gender alternative. Who am I to say otherwise?

~Simone.

yeah. To ME <--- (note that I speak for myself here for once  ) it's fluid. Sometimes, it directs me and other times, I'm the driver. Mostly, though, I'm along for the ride.

It's become a good ride because of my friends here.   

Hmm very interesting read. First of I would like to say that I hold no predjudice views towards any part of the LBGT community and I respect everyones right to an opinion so long as they do not try to impose that opinion on me forceibly. I do not personaly know any people who indentify as androgyne. Hell I only know two other ts people in real life and one of them is still questioning. Scientificaly since nothing is truly black and white and all things tend to come in degrees and variables I definatly lean towards androgyne being a valid gender alternative. However I did vote don't understand it or know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the other. My reasoning for this is I hate to give any strong stance on a subject that I have not researched and that I lack suffiecnt data in. So while I do lean toward complete aceptance I will not make a strong stance until I learn more on the issue.

One other thing I would like to bring up though is I do think that comparing some TS and white supremacist was a tad excesive. While there may be some similarity of viewpoint as far as I know ive never heard of a case of a person who identifies as TS physicaly hurt or attempt to make life living hell to a person that identifies as Androgyne. However I have heard many acounts of white supremacist comminting acts of inhumane atrocity toward all different members of the LBGT community and our supporters. This poll was supposed to be an unbiased research experiment and all every participant has the right to an opinion so long as it that opinion isn't being forced on another individual in any way. Yes in the exterme sense this does mean that I rescpect the right of a person to have their opinion even when I think it's completely stupid. This includes the most hateful anti LBGT person who thinks we are pure evil and sacrifice babies to the devil in our heathen rituals so long as that opinion stays just an opinion and is not forced on me.

I voted I somewhat believe it's a valid gender identity, but don't know for sure.  I don't know enough about androgynes.  Just as Bios don't know enough about Trans people.  But I am more than willing to learn.  After all you are still are brothers and sisters, if one can say that.

Janet

Quote from: Fox on December 09, 2008, 11:49:16 PMI definatly lean towards androd being a valid gender alternative. However I did vote don't understand it or know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the other.

It should be straightforward enough to tell-- do you have electronic circuits instead of a nervous system? You're an android. If your body is entirely organic, you're not. If you have a bionic combination of both, I think the term is "cyborg."

Cute, Hypatia


"By your command"

My statement would be something like ''legimitive/valid form of gender expression''.

Some backround
Genetically there are many genders. However primary gender stairts as genitals could be divided to two male and female. The classification shoud be done by the status of external genitals. And the word identity is a very strong. So I see androgynes more as from of gender expression that is totally ok.
We come this to question about intersexed people. The treatment of those people is very controversal issue. I have my own liberal but not pro-genderdiversity views that I am not going to state here. Many ''untreated'' intersexed people became very unhappy later in their lifes. So I favor ''least harm for the most''-model at this issue.

Do I believe androgynes are weird or crazy? No.

Do I believe that some people who happen to be androgyne may be weird or crazy? Perhaps, but no moreso than some people who identify as male or female.

I believe angrogyne identification is as equally valid as male or female identification. No more, no less. If it's who you are then it's who you are. That's all there is to it as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: Fox on December 09, 2008, 11:49:16 PM
I only know two other ts people in real life and one of them is still questioning.

That person who is questioning may wind up sifted to the bottom of the bowl like the rest of us Non binaries.

Sure, like an upside down cake, we're the first thrown into the bowl, but when it's dropped from the pan, that's us at the top, Babies.   

I'm assuming that upside down cakes are actually upside down.

Quote from: Leiandra on December 10, 2008, 06:10:49 AM
Do I believe androgynes are weird or crazy? No.

I take umbrage at this statement.   



I forgot to say that all opinions are okay

even if there is a rhyme within their reason

I accept Androgyne as a gender alternative.

Honestly, I don't see why I should disbelieve someone's sense of identity. You are who you are IMO, and no one knows that better than yourself.
That some people embrace the Androgyne identity out of fear of going forward and an impossibility of going backwards there's no doubt, but the problem is fear and rejection, not the validity of Androgynes themselves.

That some people embrace the ________ identity out of fear of going forward and an impossibility of going backwards

Couldn't you say that, fill in the blank, with lots of words, TS included?

Quote from: tekla on December 10, 2008, 12:24:41 PM
That some people embrace the ________ identity out of fear of going forward and an impossibility of going backwards

Couldn't you say that, fill in the blank, with lots of words, TS included?

Uh, I guess. "Barfly" maybe? We're talking about androgynes though.
I don't think it applies to TS as TS is something that requires a much greater sacrifice and a more sustained commitment.

Disclaimer: This applies to people who identify as being Androgyne for fear of the hardships or sacrifices of a full transition.

I think that many European MTF's have different view on this issue. Perhaps we have more ''androgynes'' here. I really do not know.

But androgyne leaning feminists have not been friends of MTF-women.

Interesting reading.

I don't know if there are any people that identify as androgyne for fear of transitioning. I don't doubt that some people are undecided about their gender and find androgyne a convenient rest stop. I have used the term MTF in a similar way - I found it much easier to say I was a transexual than to recognise that I actually was an androgyne. I was not a man and so it was very easy to assume I was a woman. I should add that we also transition, e.g. people like andra who are on hormone therapy and have surgery to correct their 'birth defect'.

I find it interesting that there is a suggestion that it is an easy path. I suppose our jokeing around masks a lot of pain. Where I am concerned I suffer quite badly, to the point where I feel like I am dieing - both from social preasure and internal body dysphoria.

Perhaps Androgyne is a convenient label but it is not something that is particularly easy to be if you are one. There are times when I envy the transexuals for their clear destination. You have the rules to follow, a defined path, a place to potentially fit into. That would be good to have.

Androgyne as an expresion could mean many things. If you know what that is please let me know because myself as an Androgyne have no idea how to express myself recognisably as one.

I would really like to thank those that see the truth in the matter - that identity is a personal thing and as such is as valid as anything.

My phase has lasted 32 years. When will it end? 

Well Jesus Hell, I didn't even really know about androgynes until a couple of days ago when I joined this site.
Seems like a perfectly valid state of affairs to me.
Hell, by comparison, I'm the crazy one - they don't want to have their genitals cut up and stuffed inside them, amirite?

Quote from: Vexing on December 10, 2008, 09:36:29 PMHell, by comparison, I'm the crazy one - they don't want to have their genitals cut up and stuffed inside them, amirite?

ROTFL

I know two people who have transitioned to a neutrois/intermediate sex. Some androgynes want to transition, it's just that it's a lot harder to find a willing set of mental/medical professionals who recognise it and are willing to help.

~Simone.

For transmen and transwomen it is usually difficult to get medical help. In case someone would like to transition  physically somewhere between sexes it is nearly impossible. I do not know enough about that kind of people to think anything.

However those kind of operations may at end risk rights of the ''normal transsexuals''.
I can write more to Just for Us in case somebody is interested.