Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My therapist gave me a ton of reading material a few weeks ago and I'm just now getting
through it all. One was a handout that listed many TS traits. I have many of these, if not
all but for a couple I'm almost totally opposite and I was curious if anyone else was like that. For
example, I was somewhat shy as a child but as an adult I've never been shy. I've also never
been depressed. Anyway many of you may have already seen this list, the handout was
titled "We are Transsexuals".

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
We are very insecure
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
We often have inattention to health issues
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
We often have well above average intelligence
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
We are very imaginative daydreamers
We display self destructive behavior
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
We gave deep seated hatred of authority
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts

Hmmm. Sad to say that I seem to be a bit of a cliche then. Damn! And I thought I was such an individual!!!  ;D

Although I am okay at math!

Wow, I'm a lot of these except for about three or four of them.


Anna 

Yep, I can tick most of those Amanda, so I'm not mad after all, lol.

Hugs

Nigella

Sounds more like a teenager then a transsexual. Though I do tend to think its hard for people to become well rounded adults before they transition. I know I am very childish and am only starting to learn how to become a good adult now that I am transitioning.

Only a few of these are true of me. Maybe the list is geared more towards mtfs. After all, a man would react differently to any situation than a woman would.

I have confronted and have made peace with most of those issues, but I can say that I can identify with most of them at one time or another in my life. But one has to form their own guidelines to get past those that we find to be obstacles in our progress and growth in our journey. One step at a time will eventually get you there. You might find that human emotions as experienced by folks like us might be the hardest barriers to overcome.

Cindy

Posted on: March 24, 2008, 05:53:46 PM

---

Hi CassandraR, Just from reading your post I believe you have your stuff together and you know what your destination is, but never stop being child like. Sometime you may find that by still being connected to the inner child will help you overcome many obstacles. I'm 62 and I still feel like a young mischievous child inside myself.

Cindy

Quote from: Nero on March 24, 2008, 06:52:41 PM
Only a few of these are true of me. Maybe the list is geared more towards mtfs. After all, a man would react differently to any situation than a woman would.

Oh yea... sorry Nero... it was for MTF's.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 24, 2008, 09:27:52 PM

Quote from: Nero on March 24, 2008, 06:52:41 PM
Only a few of these are true of me. Maybe the list is geared more towards mtfs. After all, a man would react differently to any situation than a woman would.

Oh yea... sorry Nero... it was for MTF's.

No need to apologize. Found it interesting anyhow. And true of some ladies I know.

I found it interesting too... I was amazed at how TS has apparently shaped my life and
personality.

Hey Amanda,
I just figured I'd answer them from your original post :) Hope you don't mind.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions----> I'm the opposite, I cope by being emotional, always have

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others----> this is definitely not me, I have always been way too open with people

We are very insecure----> definitely

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone -----> definitely me, or with really close friends

We exhibit extreme shyness at times----> sometimes, but can be outgoing

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance-----> no inattention here, I obsess over it due to esteem issues

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves---> no, i never have. i don't feel comfortable looking at video, but i can look at pictures and pick them apart

We often have inattention to health issues----> kind of, yeah

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity----> definitely me

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities-----> not really, i didn't do this kind of thing

We often have well above average intelligence----> i think so

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.---> i excelled in sales my whole life, not highly technical or requiring intense concentration, just needed to be someone i was not.

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground----> not really, i always was a peace-keeper, looking for middle ground

We are very imaginative daydreamers---> definitely me


We display self destructive behavior----> no, not me, definitely not. i take care of myself
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.---> i am definitely open-minded

We are anti-war and anti death penalty---> anti-war yes, in certain circumstances like family member gets brutally murdered, hard for me to imagine turning the other cheek. hope i never have to put that to the test.

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives---> i've always lived two lives, the private one inside my head and the one i let people see

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation---> i was in one fight in 5th grade, a kid made fun of my best friend so i pushed him. he punched me in the nose, i cried in front of everyone in gym class thus my fighting days were over.

We gave deep seated hatred of authority---> for me, quite the opposite, i tend to follow authority figures rather easily

We have on and off battles with clinical depression----> i was in hospital for 3 months when i was 19 for it, haven't been that bad since

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice---> definitely me

We are able to easily read peoples emotions----> definitely me

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics---> i hate admitting this because it's so stereotypical. i understand math concepts, but not hardcore algebra and calc and stuff. geometry was easy for me for some reason, i don't know why.

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts-----> see the depression post

I really don't like laundry lists of trans traits. I mean, I've met sooo many different kinds of trans people and some would answer that they have most of these traits and others would hardly have any. I think you understand yourself or are at least getting that way Amanda. Don't be too swayed or convinced by this stuff. If you answered no to all of them, would that change how you feel about yourself? I think that's where you want to get to :) 

Great post though, questions are a good source of introspection, Meghan

Those describe me to a T!  :o   except for about 4 of them. The rest are right on.

I love surveys and given that it took me 46 years to become the real me, I believe that I can understand the questions.  I'll soon find out...

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
My therapist gave me a ton of reading material a few weeks ago and I'm just now getting
through it all. One was a handout that listed many TS traits. I have many of these, if not
all but for a couple I'm almost totally opposite and I was curious if anyone else was like that. For
example, I was somewhat shy as a child but as an adult I've never been shy. I've also never
been depressed. Anyway many of you may have already seen this list, the handout was
titled "We are Transsexuals".

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions   Me - Never  I prefer not to cope but I have and I hate it

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others  Me - True, except for my partner and my sis-in-law

We are very insecure    Not me

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone   Not true - I was blessed with the company of my sisters in transition on a weekly basis.  We had pajama parties with a Mary Kay rep who was there to ingest some calories and do makeovers.  I was always on the phone with someone.

We exhibit extreme shyness at times   Never did, never will.

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance   I do my best to always look presentable as a middle-aged woman. 

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves   I'll feel better about pics a time passes.

We often have inattention to health issues   Nope.

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity   Open about my sexuality; not overly modest, either.

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities   Not me!!!!!

We often have well above average intelligence   Yes. <Paula blushes>

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.  Yes, for 29 years, and I loved it!

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground    Now that I am older I prefer any middle ground.

We are very imaginative daydreamers    Yes.  Imagination helped my career and my transition; daydreaming is fun, too.

We display self destructive behavior    Is being a foodie a self-destructive behaviour?

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.   Yes.

We are anti-war and anti death penalty    Yes.

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives    I'm not a recluse but I like privacy in my home.

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation   I will defend my partner with my life and I don't give a sh*t for whatever damage I might inflict on any aggressor; all weapons are fair and there are no rules in a street fight.

We gave deep seated hatred of authority   No.  I question it and bring it to account whenever I can.

We have on and off battles with clinical depression   I have had depression for a looooooong time.

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice   Yes.

We are able to easily read peoples emotions    Yes, I am empathic.

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics   I didn't understand calculus until I was in my mid-40s.

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts    I have in the past, but no more.

This is one interesting "profile."  Either I don't fit the profile or the profile doesn't fit me.

I knew when I was five that I was a girl and at age nine I was dead certain, so for at least 42 years I had time to live with my pains and develop an attitude that would serve me well in my transitioning and my life as a middle-aged woman.  I'm no beauty but I don't make babies cry or dogs run away.  I'm not belligerent but I don't do well at taking bulls**t from anyone.  I am self-confident and feel comfortable in a diner or a five-star restaurant.  I try my clothes on before I buy them.  I always get a current measurement at the store before I buy a brassiere.  I am happy beyond words to be me, to have the gift of two lives in one lifetime, both in the same body/platform.  I am grateful to my Maker for the privilege of having been born two-spirited/transsexual.

Am I out-of-touch with reality?  I don't think so.  I have learned to live with it, that's all.

Wing Walker

All are true for me except that I had a very difficult time learning to read and write when I was younger.  I had to stay after school or come in early for extra attention in the first and second grades.  My fourth grade teacher hit me on the head as I stood stumped in front of a fraction problem on the chalk board once.  The stick stung and I was extremely embarrassed as the class chuckled at my stupidity.  I wasn't very good with math in grade school.

Those things changed as I got older.  I learned to enjoy reading and although I did not excel at math, I did take Calculus in high school and earned college credit.  In college, every class towards my major (electrical engineering) was an adventure in calculus.  Even though my GPA was high, I did have a difficult time getting through that jungle.  I don't know how I ever finished that degree.  FWIW, the most valuable class that I took in college was one that I have used almost every day since..... typing.

But other than that, all of the other traits listed, I can certainly call my own.

Cindi

This generalisation list doesn't respresent anything and all personalities have different interests in dealing with transgendered issue's. In particular most of these do not represent my character or personality:

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - no
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others no
We are very insecure no
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone not true
We exhibit extreme shyness at times no
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance no
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves no
We often have inattention to health issues no
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity no
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities never
We often have well above average intelligence yes
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. no
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground no
We are very imaginative daydreamers no
We display self destructive behavior no
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. yes
We are anti-war and anti death penalty yes
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives no
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation no
We gave deep seated hatred of authority no
We have on and off battles with clinical depression no
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice yes
We are able to easily read peoples emotions yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics yes
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts occasionally

only 6 out of 26.....related to me...

Thanks for the responses everyone. It was just interesting to me to see how in MY case many of
these traits seem to fit and to see how GID has shaped my life. I know everyone is different (
that's what makes us great right?)  and maybe I'm just a more textbook example like some of you that
also had many of the traits. Also, (I did not post it before sorry), the handout said you may see some
or all of these traits in yourself.

Meghan, I do think I have a MUCH better understanding of myself the past six months, but I'm still learning,
still thinking, still feeling my way along. I'm not there yet but I'm in a pretty good place right now and happier than
I've been in years, probably ever. I know I have a long way to go and there will be some valleys but this feels
so right that I don't even think about those anymore and try to focus on the positives.

Anyway, I hope everyone has a great day!

Got all of them, except extreme shyness, I'm very very good at math
and never attempted suicide.

Are these suppose to be permanent traits or are they something that goes away with therapy and transition. These are the ones I really like to get rid of . I surprised that low self esteem is not one of them or hatred of ones voice.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
We are very insecure
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
We often have inattention to health issues
We display self destructive behavior
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts


Anna

Wow.  This is good.  It doesn't describe me completely, but close. 

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - check
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - check (BIG problem)
We are very insecure - check
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - check (BIG problem)
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - check
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - check
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves -check
We often have inattention to health issues -check
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - check (even with spouse)
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - NOOOO - I'm freakin' scared
We often have well above average intelligence -check
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - check
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - double check
We are very imaginative daydreamers - double check, too
We display self destructive behavior - somewhat
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - check
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - NOOO!  I'm too much a person from the South
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - check
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - check (major problem with spouse)
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - check
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - check
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - check
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - check
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - no - I'm pretty good at math
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - double check, particularly in last 5 years

I'm going to share this with my therapist.  I'm sure he'll find it interesting.  Thanks for sharing this, Amanda!!

Carol

I read the handout to mean that these are traits that a TS MAY present with prior to
transition. I know for myself I feel much more secure although I would still call myself
insecure. I'm taking better care of my health, I spend a lot more time on my appearance now
and I like seeing my self pictures for the first time in my life. I know I'm not beautiful but in my
eyes I'm "right" now. I'm also more than likely to share deep feelings. So yea, I'd say these things
change somewhat, at least for me.

What about anyone else, did these traits change the further along you got?

Posted on: March 25, 2008, 09:36:47 AM

---

Quote from: carol_w on March 25, 2008, 10:33:21 AM
I'm going to share this with my therapist.  I'm sure he'll find it interesting.  Thanks for sharing this, Amanda!!

Carol

Your welcome, it explained so many things for me.

I thought the list wasn't very close to my own personal situation or personality and only 6 of the things listed applied to me.....

We are all so different, just like everyone else is different in society and a therapist cannot make generalisations just because we all have Gender Dysphoria.....

Well I can seem some changing - and not all change would be for the better, ie, becoming less able to read others emotions, or becoming pro-war and pro death penalty.  I don't know how you change the ability to do math, which you got, or ain't got, I don't know of anyone in their later years who wakes up and says "Hey, this is great, now I do algebra" - thought I do think that sometime things that are abstract when presented to us in school, become clear when we see a use for them.


I was struck, and am thinking hard about 'if these are TS traits, do CDs display the opposite, and if so, what's that say about levels of GID.'


shutting down all emotions  - I've never been very emotional, but I don't shut down what little I have
discuss deep feelings with others  - I can, and I do
very insecure  -  Not me either, and few CDs I know are
few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - I prefer the company of the few to the many, but in my work I'm with masses, so that might be compensation
extreme shyness - nah
hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance   - I'm the exact reverse.
avoid pictures and videos of ourselves  - getting between a CD and a camera is dangerous,
inattention to health issues - I'll have to think on that, if inattention is the same as not caring
extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - no, not ever
dangerous jobs or activities  - what I do seems dangerous to others, but I've always felt safe by doing it right
above average intelligence   - whatever
activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations - yes
extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - I'm not competitive in most things, because there is no need, but I like sports too, and activities that are small competitions   
very imaginative daydreamers   - isn't everyone?
self destructive behavior - I've always seen myself as far less self destructive than those around me
a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.  I blame a liberal catholic education and not being a CD for that,
anti-war and anti death penalty - yes
need for more than usual privacy in our  lives  I'm not sure what the "usual amount" is, so I can't answer
unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - I fight if I have too
deep seated hatred of authority   - I don't hate it, I hold it in contempt, different deal
battles with clinical depression   Never, I might depress others, but never myself except for the year after the break up of my marriage, which seems natural
place people by the sounds of their voice - you mean everyone can't?
easily read peoples emotions - I can, but I don't care about them, does that count? 
excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - I did good in liberal arts and hard science, so no.
suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts    - I have come close to being homicidal, but never suicidal.

yep, all but the suicide attempt ones fit me an a couple of others.







Mickie

About 15 of the 25 match for me...

~Kate~

I think of myself more as an androgyne than MTF. But, the following bolded items did seem to be true for me.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
We are very insecure
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
We often have inattention to health issues
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
We often have well above average intelligence
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
We are very imaginative daydreamers
We display self destructive behavior
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
We gave deep seated hatred of authority
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts

Hi Amanda, did you notice the little rainbow on the bottom right corner of your picture? Neat.

Cindy

I planned that :) LOL.

Actually I had a whole slew of pictures that had that little rainbow it's actually the flash reflecting off the painting
behind me. I liked some of the pictures so I made it an "artistic" thing. LOL.

After having it up for a while as my avatar, now I'm not sure if I like that picture :) Too boyish.

I think you look great hon, just wait until the HRT starts doing it's stuff. I been on it for 8 years and it went and done it's job Finlay but then I am considerably older then you are and lucky to have got as good a results as I did. At least I look like a rather distinguished elder lady  ;D I got some new pics but I have to finish using up the film so I can get it developed.

Cindy

zeat Grot!

I have all except being good with voices.   I'm supposed to just be gender variant.


oh crap.

I know that the list doesn't mean anything beyond being a kind of quick assessment tool.  But Yikes!

Quote from: cindybc on March 25, 2008, 03:41:08 PM
I think you look great hon, just wait until the HRT starts doing it's stuff. I been on it for 8 years and it went and done it's job Finlay but then I am considerably older then you are and lucky to have got as good a results as I did. At least I look like a rather distinguished elder lady  ;D I got some new pics but I have to finish using up the film so I can get it developed.

Cindy

Thanks Cindy, you look great too :)

Lots of the stuff fits me too.  Not all but a lot do.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions <-- nope
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others <-- nope, not remotely, i find it easier
We are very insecure <-- yeah quite true
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone <-- plenty of close friends, id rather be with my best friend than alone
We exhibit extreme shyness at times <-- shy when i dont know people, after that, im apparently quite confident
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance <-- i actually like how i look
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves <-- not just ->-bleeped-<-s do that....
We often have inattention to health issues <-- uh what?
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity <-- my modesty is on a sliding scale with alcohol consumption... its a negative linear correlation....
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities <-- i dont really mind it, but i doubt its linked
We often have well above average intelligence <-- its been noticed.
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. <-- distracts from the crapness of life
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground <-- disagree, im fairly easy on that front
We are very imaginative daydreamers <-- lol, about as true for general society....
We display self destructive behavior <-- not really
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. ROFL, no WAY.... ->-bleeped-<-s if anything, are MORE intollerant than those we accuse of intollerance.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty <-- lol no. im pro death penalty, and pro war depending on the situation.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives <-- i dont care
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation <-- i play a combat sport *shrugs*
We gave deep seated hatred of authority <-- Rubbish... a lot of transpeople do, but thats from bad experiences, or percived likelyhood of it, hell, im JOINING that authority...
We have on and off battles with clinical depression  <-- not really, ive never been clinically depressed, (aside from the trans issue)
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice lol i cant do that for toffee...
We are able to easily read peoples emotions <-- um female trait.
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics nah, im fairly good at maths. -> 'my modesty is on a sliding scale with alcohol consumption... its a negative linear correlation.... ' that thar is irony in action folks.......

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts <-- well duh

R >:D

A therapist giving out a list like that is rather shocking in my opinion.  It simply demonstrates and perpetuates transsexuals presenting a 'standard' list of symptoms and circumstances in order to get treatment.  It's stupid because this lack of REAL honest communication between patients and therapist doesn't help either party. 

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions <-- yes, primarily I did shut down to cope with life, now after hrt... now a different story.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others <-- yes, still find it hard, rather listen than talk.
We are very insecure <-- very true
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone <-- no, like to spend time with family and friends, definitely not alone.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times <-- shy at first with strangers.
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance <--  I hate certain things about myself, but pay alot of attention to my appearance.
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves <-- yes definitely
We often have inattention to health issues <-- yes, was negligent previously
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity <-- yes very modest  ::)
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities <-- yes was attracted to danger
We often have well above average intelligence <-- my pychiatrist thinks so, I'm not so sure
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. <-- yes, love using my brain as much as possible, helps to not think so much.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground <-- yes, have the extremes.
We are very imaginative daydreamers <-- yes
We display self destructive behavior <-- did when I was really young, not anymore
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. <-- like to think so.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty <-- YES Very Anti-death penalty and war.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives <-- YES, will fight to the bitter end for my privacy!!!
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation <-- ummm, just said that I would for privacy. lol
We gave deep seated hatred of authority <-- Yes always have!  But don't give them a hard time or would land myself in jail or anything, but I don't believe all police or doctors blah, blah, blah are right/gods!!
We have on and off battles with clinical depression  <-- yes
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice <-- yes true, identifying others by voice,
We are able to easily read peoples emotions <-- yes definitely
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics<-- yes, won awards for writing stories, poetry and good penmanship, below average in maths.
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts <-- yes, yes, yes!!

For the record: Suicidal thoughts and plans are the number one symptom of clinical depression.

QuoteA therapist giving out a list like that is rather shocking in my opinion.  It simply demonstrates and perpetuates transsexuals presenting a 'standard' list of symptoms and circumstances in order to get treatment.  It's stupid because this lack of REAL honest communication between patients and therapist doesn't help either party.

She had already made her diagnosis I think when she gave me all the reading material. But I may have started
off with her a little different than most. I had fully decided before starting what I wanted to do and how I was
going to do it. She started her (I'm sure standard) talk about what her role was bla bla bla.
I let her finish and then I was totally honest and I told her I was female, always had been and all I needed her for was to
deal with the guilt that I was having for the pain I would be causing people AND that I was going to transition with or without her.
I spilled my deepest thoughts out for a couple of sessions, cried several times, and at the end of that second session she
said fine I have no doubts you are going to make a fine women. Then she smiled and corrected herself and said
"you are a fine women". "You're are going to do well". The next session she gave me a couple of books to read and the
handouts and it's been great with her from there. Best experience ever really and I love seeing her now and I know it's a dr/patient
relationship but she thinks of me as a friend as I do her.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - yep
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - yep
We are very insecure - yep
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - yep
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - what do you mean at times :P
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - yep
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - yep
We often have inattention to health issues - yep
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - don't even go to the beach anymore cause of this one
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - well, sometimes
We often have well above average intelligence - heh, i can be smug about this one :D
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - comp sci counts i think
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - i'm more competitive than the rest of you >_>
We are very imaginative daydreamers - yep
We display self destructive behavior - sometimes
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely  to be racist, homophobic etc. -yep
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - very yep
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - very yep
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - yep
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - yep
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - been pretty good on this one, i hardly ever feel down
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - yep
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - yep
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - great at reading and writing, used to be good at maths... now i'm only good at reading >_<
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - thoughts, mabey...

Clinical depression is I believe part of the GID that all trans people suffer from, among an array of other lesser or greater living problems. As I have mentioned before, GID must be related to alcohol. Given time both will remove everything of value from you unless one seeks help. Depression can throw your entire physical and mental state out of sync, and yes to the point of attempting suicide, and street hooking and drugs. Been there done that, but just like the list, not everyone will identify with all the symptoms listed there. We all perceive, see, and experience life differently, just as we view the characteristics in the list differently. Those are the cold facts for some of us sorry to say. I do not relish to talk about the street stuff But if need be I will.

Cindy 

The majority of that list i fear is what transsexuals feel they have to be, to get treated.... ie, flowery girly girls...

its by no means a 'grouping' or even a study... its that therapists opinions...

Personally i think theres more intollerance in the trans community than out of it !


and what the HELL does being anti war have to do with gender?
R >:D

and what the HELL does being anti war have to do with gender?

If you look at the poll numbers, far more women support peace then men (who also, at the current time, oppose it by more than 50%), where war is some macho deal.  The leaders of the anti-war movement in America have historically been women.

Quote from: Rachael on March 25, 2008, 10:18:41 PM
The majority of that list i fear is what transsexuals feel they have to be, to get treated.... ie, flowery girly girls...its by no means a 'grouping' or even a study... its that therapists opinions...

Personally i think theres more intollerance in the trans community than out of it !


and what the HELL does being anti war have to do with gender?
R >:D

Why take offense to some questionaire?  Its not a sorting hat.  Be o.k with who you are, no piece of paper is going to do that.  Why do you want to be the same as everyone else?  I thought you liked being an individual, not a number.  Ummm, intolerance, yes well, as my memory serves me you can be a bit intolerant yourself, don't you think?

Did your therapist give any credit to Susan's?   ;)

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,272.msg1260.html#msg1260

I doubt it. but then, who knows where they collect their information, there is a lot of misinformation out there too. One has to find their own tune, then dance by it when it feels right.  Well then where do the therapists get their education about Transfolks if they have not experienced what what being transsexual themselves? Did they have the benefit of TS instructors? Or do they learn by working with Transfolks? I realise that there are more Trans folks that have followed a career as therapists and shrinks themselves, but still there are many out there that are not. I have been quite impressed how transfolks work together here with, transfolks, for transfolks. Eh, if this post annoys anyone just say so, and I'll delete it.

Cindy

I think this is the first time I have read this list and all but one are apropriate to me.

I found that although most TG people are of above intelagence, they struggle with the english language and may have mild dyslexia. This is my take on the situation what do you think.

Quote from: buttercup on March 25, 2008, 11:15:14 PM

Quote from: Rachael on March 25, 2008, 10:18:41 PM
The majority of that list i fear is what transsexuals feel they have to be, to get treated.... ie, flowery girly girls...its by no means a 'grouping' or even a study... its that therapists opinions...

Personally i think theres more intollerance in the trans community than out of it !


and what the HELL does being anti war have to do with gender?
R >:D

Why take offense to some questionaire?  Its not a sorting hat.  Be o.k with who you are, no piece of paper is going to do that.  Why do you want to be the same as everyone else?  I thought you liked being an individual, not a number.  Ummm, intolerance, yes well, as my memory serves me you can be a bit intolerant yourself, don't you think?

Point is, its NOT a questionare... its some therapist deciding traits that define a transsexual person :P
Me intollerant? i think you're mistaking lack of blind acceptance, for intollerance ;)
Tekla: true, but to suggest that transsexuals are as a group, anti war, is to suggest that women, as a group are... not all are...
and the anti death penalty....

What i find ironic, is the number who claim to be anti war, anti death, yet the numbers of gun owners on this board alone....
shocking really...
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on March 25, 2008, 10:18:41 PM
The majority of that list i fear is what transsexuals feel they have to be, to get treated.... ie, flowery girly girls...its by no means a 'grouping' or even a study... its that therapists opinions...

Frankly Rachel, this is just the way I am. I oppose war and the death penalty because it's wrong. I would like to think I would still feel that way were I not T, but frankly, it's something I am proud of. As for the other traits, yeah, the majority of them describe me to a T, pardon the pun, but equally there are many other characteristics to me. I like dance and martial arts and parkour. I enjoy classical music, metal and industrial. I like moonlit walks anywhere BUT on the beach. (I dislike the beach.  ;D)

The fact is that most of the characteristics described simply make biological and psychological sense. We WOULD generally have a better grasp on language and the like than on more technical and abstract things because our brains are at least partially female. Likewise, the higher intelligence makes sense due to the fact that our male and female aspects of thinking are likely more integrated. We WOULD have a general disdain for appearance and health because of dysphoria. Shutting down emotionally makes sense, to me anyway, in light of the fact that I was a very emotional child, and when I kept being told that that isn't the way a boy is supposed to act, I eventually internalised it. The same can be said for most of the other traits mentioned.

Just because you are lucky enough not to fit this mould, that does not mean that the entire list is invalid. It simply means that you were maybe stronger and more able to deal with alot of this crap than I was.

Quote from: Andra on March 25, 2008, 05:01:52 PM
A therapist giving out a list like that is rather shocking in my opinion.  It simply demonstrates and perpetuates transsexuals presenting a 'standard' list of symptoms and circumstances in order to get treatment.  It's stupid because this lack of REAL honest communication between patients and therapist doesn't help either party. 

That's exactely it Andra...in a nutshell....you nailed it..

Every individual is different and has different issue's.....it's like the Therapist is saying every Transsexual has the same interests and hang ups......what total nonsense..

Quote from: Berliegh on March 26, 2008, 06:12:41 AM
Every individual is different and has different issue's.....it's like the Therapist is saying every Transsexual has the same interests and hang ups......what total nonsense..

Nobody is disputing that, but one cannot deny that common maladies usually have common symptoms. Nobody is saying these characteristics HAVE to be encountered for one to be TS. All it is saying that they are fairly common. The problem comes in when people start using these sorts of lists as a "sorting hat", and unfortunately yes, some therapists AND some TS people do that, but that does not make the list invalid, only their use of it.

All I know is that, if my teachers or parents had had a list like this when I was a teen, I might've been saved a lot of heartache. Not for them to box me in, but for them to have said: "This is a possibility, lets explore it along with everything else."

Those arnt symptoms... or traits...
thier observations of one person trying to box something...

you know what?

that list fits NON transpeople about as well as it fits trans people....

take the trans word away.
show that list to a non trans person, see how relevant it is to them....



its a list of human traits.
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on March 26, 2008, 07:45:04 AM
Those arnt symptoms... or traits...
thier observations of one person trying to box something...

you know what?

that list fits NON transpeople about as well as it fits trans people....

take the trans word away.
show that list to a non trans person, see how relevant it is to them....



its a list of human traits.
R >:D

I agree and you nailed it even better Rachael....

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
We are very insecure
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
We often have inattention to health issues
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
We often have well above average intelligence
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
We are very imaginative daydreamers
We display self destructive behavior
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
We gave deep seated hatred of authority
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts

Stereotypes.  Less than half the list fits me, and the same ones would apply to millions of non-transgendered people.  Be wary of absolute statements like, "We have deep seated hatred of authority."  Ya?  Maybe some of us do.  So would a random selection of people who grew up in the 1960's.

I am making an observation in general here, which is not intended as a response to any one post one here, but to illustrate a point:

Stereotypes become stereotypes because they are often true. Just because a stereotype exists though, does not mean that it is true for everybody within the group. EVERYTHING works on a bell curve, where a big section of the group will be near the middle of any particular range of results, with fewer and fewer people out towards the edges. Due to my absolutely screwed up nature, I fall on the one end of the spectrum, while people who do not conform to the list fall towards the other end of the spectrum.

This is how science works folks, for better or worse. You make a series of observations, and then you start drawing conclusions and making predictions. Your model might be incomplete, causing some conclusions to be wrong, but that simply means your model is incomplete, not necessarily wrong. (Though obviously, it might well be)

Quote from: Lisbeth on March 26, 2008, 08:26:06 AM
"We have deep seated hatred of authority."  Ya?  Maybe some of us do.  So would a random selection of people who grew up in the 1960's.

The same goes for those of us who grew up in the 1980's.  ;)


Posted on: March 26, 2008, 07:02:42 AM

---

Quote from: lady amarant on March 26, 2008, 08:42:10 AM
I am making an observation in general here, which is not intended as a response to any one post one here, but to illustrate a point:

Stereotypes become stereotypes because they are often true. Just because a stereotype exists though, does not mean that it is true for everybody within the group. EVERYTHING works on a bell curve, where a big section of the group will be near the middle of any particular range of results, with fewer and fewer people out towards the edges. Due to my absolutely screwed up nature, I fall on the one end of the spectrum, while people who do not conform to the list fall towards the other end of the spectrum.

This is how science works folks, for better or worse. You make a series of observations, and then you start drawing conclusions and making predictions. Your model might be incomplete, causing some conclusions to be wrong, but that simply means your model is incomplete, not necessarily wrong. (Though obviously, it might well be)

I agree with most of this.

But, I'd have to say that stereotypes are based more on observation than on truth. And, observation depends largely on one's point of view. So, it might be more accurate (to me) to say "Stereotypes become stereotypes because" of the points of view of the apparent majority of observers.

And as others have pointed out, these traits are not unique to transsexuals. That's what I was trying to say when I indicated that some of these "traits" can be applied to me, and I'm "just" an androgyne, not TG or TS.

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on March 26, 2008, 09:26:28 AM

Quote from: Lisbeth on March 26, 2008, 08:26:06 AM
"We have deep seated hatred of authority."  Ya?  Maybe some of us do.  So would a random selection of people who grew up in the 1960's.

The same goes for those of us who grew up in the 1980's.  ;)

Not to mention the 90's. The hippies left quite a legacy. Yay for flower power!!!

Quote
But, I'd have to say that stereotypes are based more on observation than on truth. And, observation depends largely on one's point of view. So, it might be more accurate (to me) to say "Stereotypes become stereotypes because" of the points of view of the apparent majority of observers.

Ah, but what is truth. Relativistically, EVERYTHING is dependant on your POV, and things only pop into reality when we observe them, if you believe a quantum physicist. ;)

Quote
And as others have pointed out, these traits are not unique to transsexuals. That's what I was trying to say when I indicated that some of these "traits" can be applied to me, and I'm "just" an androgyne, not TG or TS.

Oh, I absolutely agree. Just because me being TS is totally screwed up, doesn't mean you can't be too!  ;)  It is a useful tool though, if somebody does present these sorts of traits, for an observer to say: "Hmmmm, TS might be one of the many possiblities of what might be going on here."

Quote from: beth on March 26, 2008, 01:33:54 AM
Did your therapist give any credit to Susan's?   ;)

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,272.msg1260.html#msg1260

No, LOL... but it sounds like she needs to :)

Posted on: March 26, 2008, 09:22:03 AM

---

I don't check in for a little while and look what happens :)

QuoteAll I know is that, if my teachers or parents had had a list like this when I was a teen, I might've been saved a lot of heartache. Not for them to box me in, but for them to have said: "This is a possibility, lets explore it along with everything else."

I agree 200%. All I know is most (but not all) describe me and reading the list made me see and think about a lot of things about
my life and personality. Probably more than anything that I've read about GID. If they are just human traits then so be it but I
happen to be TS and they fit. I apologize if the list rattled some nerves of people that don't share many of the traits, but it's
just a list. You are what you are and just because you are unique and do not have any of the traits does not make you any less
TS. Just because I have many of the traits does not make me more TS. It's just a list to make you think. It may be a bad list,
it may be a stereotypical list, but it's just a list. 

Hi Lady Amarant

QuoteAh, but what is truth. Relativistically, EVERYTHING is dependant on your POV, and things only pop into reality when we observe them, if you believe a quantum physicist

Yep that is quite true. I say I'll see it when I believe it, not believe it when I see it. Well the later is what society tries to stereotype us with. Well I was raised before they came out with stereos and I didn't know how to type. I was my own stripe of cat and curiosity got me into some very odd predicaments. Now we are all Ike that to a lesser or greater degree, the human race are a curious lot. Ain't nothing wrong with that it is curiosity that has lead us to many discoveries. You watch something long enough you will figure out it's nature. You see, I am one of those old flower children.

As far as that list goes as to what applies to who will not be the same in all cases but it is a good enough frame of reference to work by at this time, until we can come up with a better measuring stick. A serious researcher has to have a starting point somewhere on the spectrum of the many different characteristics and quirks that make up humanity. I look at the list in above posts and I can see where I could Identify with a good majority of the descriptions of what is supposed to be the characteristics of a transperson. But many of those characteristics I have already dealt and worked through but some still remains for me to exlore. But no mater how far one has walked the path it is advisable to never forget from when you came, in other words your humble beginingd, so that you may at some future time be able to eliminated the way for another wh follows behind.

A ruler is a good piece of equipment as we have come up with thus far for measuring distance but only to limited areas, beyond that it remains quantifiable and no longer possible to measure with the ruler.

Cindy   

               Most of this list was originally compiled here on Susan's. I posted the original thread link above that had many of the characteristics but there was another thread where some of the members here added many of the additional traits.  The original post and comments were lost when this site crashed several years ago.


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,272.msg1260.html#msg1260



                This list was only regarding "unmittigated transsexuals"  not those that have transitioned. It is a list of traits that some transsexuals may share after years of GID. It is not a list of traits that a 20 year old transsexual who has transitioned at 19 would likely have.


                 If you go back and read the thread from 3 years ago you will see that enough transsexuals identified with the list to make it more than a list of stereotypes.  It is very interesting to note the differences in the attitudes from 3 years ago to the present.

beth

QuoteIf you go back and read the thread from 3 years ago you will see that enough transsexuals identified with the list to make it more than a list of stereotypes.  It is very interesting to note the differences in the attitudes from 3 years ago to the present.

beth

What do you attribute that change to? Just a different crowd here now?

The trouble with any such list is that in an effort to be inclusive (asking questions that anyone could answer, yes or no style) they become far less than exclusive in any predictive ability.  Many of the words are loaded, others are excursions in relativity.  Like, "well above average intelligence" - is that over the 50% mark, or over the 80% mark, and how determined, SAT scores, Stanford-Binet, GPA, life accomplishment?  And in what field, is parsing Jane Austin more important, or less important than mechanical aptitude?  If one scores high in one, but low in the other (as is common) which one gives the "well above average" ranking?

And who ever says "Yeah, I'm below average intelligence?" 

What exactly, by a qualitative or quantitative measurement is "usual privacy."  Or, "self destructive behavior" which can be viewed in many ways, all of which do not agree.  And there are a lot of things that seem like "dangerous jobs or activities" from the outside, that are less so on the inside.  The two most dangerous jobs in the US, according to OSHA are very different.  One is coal mining.  OK, we can all agree on that one.  Anything that goes wrong in a coal mine is going to be very bad for those who are underground.  Number two - working at a convenience store.  Which does not sound near as dangerous as coal mining, but is almost as bad.  I love to climb - technical climbing - and when I was younger I was quite good.  My friends now tell me "I climb like an old lady" to which I reply, "I am."  I'm 52 and not as good as I was at 27.  But a lot of people think its dangerous, when in fact, its a lot safer than many other sports.  Mountain biking and High School Football are both a lot more dangerous than technical climbing, a lot more. 

jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations are also jobs that tend to pay a lot more, so doesn't everyone want them?

deep seated hatred of authority  -- Thats loaded, and I'm sure you know it.  Look, lots of people in here are religious, I'm not.  I'm not even going to take the cop out of "I"m Spiritual" which I also hold as being more or less bunk.  Some of these people look to the preacher and pastor or their meditation master as some sort of 'authority.'  Do I have a 'deep seated hated of authority' if I don't think these people have any authority at all in the first place?  How could any sensient person have any respect for the authority of the President of the United States given the conduct in that office the last 16+ years?  During Senate hearing on rock and roll lyrics (Having solved all other problems....) Frank Zappa asked Slade Gordon (R-WA) if he was doing this to get re-elected.  Gordon threatened Zappa with a contempt of Congress charge to which Frank replied "Go ahead Senator, I already hold you in contempt."  And by what reasonable standard was Frank supposed to hold that body in respect when its taking sworn statements from the lead singer of Twisted Sister?  I do hold the SF Police in the highest respect however, even if I think our mayor is a publicity whore, and our Board of Supervisors is just the entertainment branch of the big landlords.

   

Quote from: tekla on March 26, 2008, 01:20:55 PM
jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations are also jobs that tend to pay a lot more, so doesn't everyone want them?

I don't. I'd be seriously tempted if I was offered a clerical or supportive type of job, even for less money. I'm tired of the isolation and responsibility of my programming/tech position. A NASTY combination that worked for my previous self, but now I see how it's been just feeding my problems.

I don't think that list is so bad. Most of it is just symptoms or manifestations of the shame and guilt that builds up in many of us from hiding the GID. We often become introverted, very watchful and paranoid of our behaviour and people's reactions, build lives and worlds in our heads since we can't exist in the REAL one, etc.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on March 26, 2008, 01:55:18 PM
I don't think that list is so bad. Most of it is just symptoms or manifestations of the shame and guilt that builds up in many of us from hiding the GID. We often become introverted, very watchful and paranoid of our behaviour and people's reactions, build lives and worlds in our heads since we can't exist in the REAL one, etc.

So it describes a "person with issues that make them introverted/depressed" + some feminine stereotypes?

Which does not help in precluding other psychiatric problems causing the person to think they have GID. Which is the reason psychs are required in getting official treatment. Thus it doesn't seem to help very much, and can be abused - there is a long history of trans people conforming to stereotypes to get treatment.

Having had one, and no longer wanting it is a different deal all together.  A lot of people get jobs they dream about, work to have, dream about having, only to find out that they are not exactly what they wanted - or they grew to become something else.  I know many people in what I do now who used to do other things, ranging from teaching college to being a CPA to working as a big time administrator at a federal agency.  An old professor friend of mine sold his house, bought a big-rig, hit the road and never looked back.  There are a lot of postings in other places today about the finding that more LA police officers died of suicide last year then in work related shootings.  Perhaps they too were wrong about what that job was really about. 

Quote from: taru on March 26, 2008, 02:04:17 PM

Quote from: Kate on March 26, 2008, 01:55:18 PM
I don't think that list is so bad. Most of it is just symptoms or manifestations of the shame and guilt that builds up in many of us from hiding the GID. We often become introverted, very watchful and paranoid of our behaviour and people's reactions, build lives and worlds in our heads since we can't exist in the REAL one, etc.

So it describes a "person with issues that make them introverted/depressed" + some feminine stereotypes?

Which does not help in precluding other psychiatric problems causing the person to think they have GID. Which is the reason psychs are required in getting official treatment. Thus it doesn't seem to help very much, and can be abused - there is a long history of trans people conforming to stereotypes to get treatment.

Taru, I think you have a very valid point, I hope that lists like these arn't used by transpeople to get treatment. Every person should be assesed on there own merrits and not prejudged because they dont fit the norm for treatment. On the other hand as you say, people portraying certain traits just so that they stand better chances of moving forward at a quiker pace is just as wrong.

You know what folks, at the end of the day, if you feel you conform to some of the points on the list, you're probably right, and if you feel you don't then you are probably right too. Perhaps at some point in the past you would have fit and don't anymore, perhaps you never did. Ultimately each of us knows ourselves the best, as long as we can be honest with ourselves, and it is not for me, or for you to say that the list is invalid or not. For me, the list works, for you perhaps, it doesn't. Who cares...

Quote from: Kate on March 26, 2008, 01:55:18 PM

Quote from: tekla on March 26, 2008, 01:20:55 PM
jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations are also jobs that tend to pay a lot more, so doesn't everyone want them?

I don't. I'd be seriously tempted if I was offered a clerical or supportive type of job, even for less money. I'm tired of the isolation and responsibility of my programming/tech position. A NASTY combination that worked for my previous self, but now I see how it's been just feeding my problems.

I don't think that list is so bad. Most of it is just symptoms or manifestations of the shame and guilt that builds up in many of us from hiding the GID. We often become introverted, very watchful and paranoid of our behaviour and people's reactions, build lives and worlds in our heads since we can't exist in the REAL one, etc.

~Kate~

that's how I feel too

Quote from: Kate on March 26, 2008, 01:55:18 PM

Quote from: tekla on March 26, 2008, 01:20:55 PM
jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations are also jobs that tend to pay a lot more, so doesn't everyone want them?

I don't. I'd be seriously tempted if I was offered a clerical or supportive type of job, even for less money. I'm tired of the isolation and responsibility of my programming/tech position. A NASTY combination that worked for my previous self, but now I see how it's been just feeding my problems.

I'd have to agree with Kate. I do advanced tech support for a living, not because I like falling on the sword for engineering, QA, and sales, but because it's what I do and I have a family to provide for. If I could afford a lower-tech, lower paying job, I'd take it.

I'm in crappy I.T. too.


I will pay someone to kidnap my users and lose them all in the desert somewhere.

QuoteYou know what folks, at the end of the day, if you feel you conform to some of the points on the list, you're probably right, and if you feel you don't then you are probably right too. Perhaps at some point in the past you would have fit and don't anymore, perhaps you never did. Ultimately each of us knows ourselves the best, as long as we can be honest with ourselves, and it is not for me, or for you to say that the list is invalid or not. For me, the list works, for you perhaps, it doesn't. Who cares...

That's the way I see it. Who cares, it's just a list, if it does not fit you then who cares? Some of us are just more
stereotypical TS than others, but it does not change anything, we are still all in this TS club together. We all
have to fight the same fights. I feel kinda bad for posting this list, I thought that since it applied to me everyone would
enjoy reading it. It was eye opening for me.

I'm here to learn from those who have gone before me and to give back and teach the ones that follow me. I'm not here to
start wars on who is more TS based on a stupid list. I love everyone here, I feel a lot closer to some of you than anyone I've
met in person since I share so much of your thoughts and experiences. Everyone here has helped me in so many ways the last
six or so months and even though I don't agree with all of you but I respect what you have to say. Sorry, I'm obviously a little
emotional these days and maybe take things too personally.

I think the list was interesting Amanda, and I am glad you posted it!  ;)

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 26, 2008, 02:36:25 PM

QuoteYou know what folks, at the end of the day, if you feel you conform to some of the points on the list, you're probably right, and if you feel you don't then you are probably right too. Perhaps at some point in the past you would have fit and don't anymore, perhaps you never did. Ultimately each of us knows ourselves the best, as long as we can be honest with ourselves, and it is not for me, or for you to say that the list is invalid or not. For me, the list works, for you perhaps, it doesn't. Who cares...

That's the way I see it. Who cares, it's just a list, if it does not fit you then who cares? Some of us are just more
stereotypical TS than others, but it does not change anything, we are still all in this TS club together. We all
have to fight the same fights. I feel kinda bad for posting this list, I thought that since it applied to me everyone would
enjoy reading it. It was eye opening for me.

I'm here to learn from those who have gone before me and to give back and teach the ones that follow me. I'm not here to
start wars on who is more TS based on a stupid list. I love everyone here, I feel a lot closer to some of you than anyone I've
met in person since I share so much of your thoughts and experiences. Everyone here has helped me in so many ways the last
six or so months and even though I don't agree with all of you but I respect what you have to say. Sorry, I'm obviously a little
emotional these days and maybe take things too personally.

i dont believe your therapist has a list for a 'stereotypical' ts... if anything, that list helps compound some BAD stereotypes...

This is turning into another '->-bleeped-<-er than thou' pissing contest... like any other comparative thread..
R >:D

Lighten up.  Its more like "You Might Be a Redneck If...." for TS folks.  Look, anything that lists, "We excel in reading and writing at an early age" could have stopped upon proofreading posts on this board.   

Come on "We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others" means every guy I've ever met, including the gay ones, is really TS. 

"We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves" - but a TS/CD/TG site without a photo gallery is like an airplane without wings.

Any time you seek to be inclusive, you fail at being exclusive, so one size fits all.

I don't know about any of you, but every psychiatrist I have ever gone to, has given me a form with loads of questions and you have the tick the box that fits.  Forms are forms, just screw it up and throw it in the bin if its that upsetting!  They have to start somewhere.  And if you lie, well its on your head.
The psych can only get so far into your head as much as you will let him/her.  ::)

Quote from: tekla on March 26, 2008, 06:40:48 PM
Lighten up.  Its more like "You Might Be a Redneck If...." for TS folks.  Look, anything that lists, "We excel in reading and writing at an early age" could have stopped upon proofreading posts on this board.   

im sorry, i forgot that transsexuality was a joke....

I will answer for me on this.
I will give a yes a "1" point, a in between a ".5" point and a no a "0" point.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions

No. Absolutely not.

QuoteWe have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others

No again. very innacurate.

QuoteWe are very insecure

No again. once again very much not accurate.

QuoteWe have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone

Not,could be further from the truth.

QuoteWe exhibit extreme shyness at times

Not shyness. I need to get away from people, but I am not shy. by any means.

QuoteWe have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance

NO! Absolutely not. I have no hatred of my apprearance.

QuoteWe avoid pictures and videos of ourselves

No. *laugh* I like pictures of me. I avoid messy pictures of me! *laugh*, I like to look good!

QuoteWe often have inattention to health issues

No way. I would deal with things right away if something ame up. Rev. Master would probably kill me if I didn't take care of myself. I would too (figuratively!) :laugh:

QuoteWe have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity

No way. I'll give this a .5 for full nudity but not for modesty and not for extreme.

QuoteWe often take on dangerous jobs or activities

No.

QuoteWe often have well above average intelligence

Oh yes.

QuoteWe immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.

Yeas, that's probably true. But intense concentration? I am a commercial artist. I guess some people would consider that intense.

QuoteWe are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground

Wow. No middle ground. I aim for a middle ground.

QuoteWe are very imaginative daydreamers

.5 imaginative yes, daydreamer no.

QuoteWe display self destructive behavior

No. That's again another one. This sounds stereotypical to me.

QuoteWe possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.

That's true

QuoteWe are anti-war and anti death penalty

That's true as well.

QuoteWe have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives

No, not really. I need time to work, and I take time to retreat, but not privacy.
Probably a little bit. .5

QuoteWe are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation

No.

QuoteWe gave deep seated hatred of authority

No. Disrespect for the way some things are handled, yes. but hatred? no.

QuoteWe have on and off battles with clinical depression

NO WAY. I do not have this. WOW. WAY stereotypical.

QuoteWe are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice

That's probably true. Interesting.

QuoteWe are able to easily read peoples emotions

That's true too.

QuoteWe excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics

.
Uhh. Maybe. I got an A in math. I found out I was dyslexic and that fixed everything.
Handled it accordingly. I love math. You will see that here.

QuoteWe often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts

NO F-ING WAY! OMG That is so typical of people to think that.


So.
Well lets tally up the score shall we?
15 absolute "no's"
4 "middle's"(.5)
and
6 "yes's."
So,
No's are zero, so we will only be adding the middle's and yes's.
.5 x 4= 2
2+6yes's= 8

The total number of questions is 25.
to get the average,we'll devide 8 by 25, which gives us .32

So, to get the percent of accuracy, we need to write this as a word problem.

.32 is {what} percent of 25?
In math, "is" means equals, and "of" means multiply.
So we will write this as:
.32= Q x 25
So to solve this we  would divide .32 by 25
which is .0128
we still need to convert that to a percent, so we will do that by moving the decimal over two places to the right.
which gives us 1.28 .

1.28% accuracy.

That's not so good.
That's not even an F.
That's like a J! :laugh:
If it was any more of that kind of accurate, it would be shooting itself! :laugh:

That's not really saying much for this list!
:laugh:
See you later!
Sara

Hi, Amanda,

QuoteYou know what folks, at the end of the day, if you feel you conform to some of the points on the list, you're probably right, and if you feel you don't then you are probably right too. Perhaps at some point in the past you would have fit and don't anymore, perhaps you never did. Ultimately each of us knows ourselves the best, as long as we can be honest with ourselves, and it is not for me, or for you to say that the list is invalid or not. For me, the list works, for you perhaps, it doesn't. Who cares...

I quite agree with whoever the author of the above quote was. Well, to me the list was a remember when.

I remember reading such a list or one similar to this one 8 years ago when I was a member of Susan's way back then. I could identify with most of that list but have long since worked out the problems.  There are a few that still adhere even after the past 8 years. I personally think that a such a list could be used as a check-off list from when one began transitioning on up to the point where they are at now.

C'mon, girls, loosen up, it is only a guideline to help those who do not yet have any idea as to who they are, where their going and what should they look for to get to the final destination. 

Cindy

I think lists like that are damaging and I'm really not a big fan of stereotyping.....

The list as Rachael rightly pointed out could be compiled and aimed at anyone in the street, not just transsexuals......so you cannot use it as any form of guideline or check list...

i made a statistic! 79% of all transsexuals wear clothes!
83% of all statistics are true dontcha know....
R >:D

It seems like the opinions are geographically divided :-)

Most of the people that think that the list is a bad thing are from Europe, while the majority of people liking it are from the US.

Quote from: buttercup on March 26, 2008, 07:01:46 PM
I don't know about any of you, but every psychiatrist I have ever gone to, has given me a form with loads of questions and you have the tick the box that fits.  Forms are forms, just screw it up and throw it in the bin if its that upsetting!  They have to start somewhere.  And if you lie, well its on your head.
The psych can only get so far into your head as much as you will let him/her.  ::)

The problem is what happens if the psych does not think that the patient is TS. In countries with socialized medicine changing the psych is usually not possible - and that means no treatment from the official system unless the given psych thinks one fits into the box. Of course the psych is not required to have any real knowledge of GID before starting. Thus stereotypes are very dangerous.

So people in the us are anti war and anti violence? give me a break :P
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 07:01:26 AM
So people in the us are anti war and anti violence? give me a break :P
R >:D

Plenty of us are anti war... but as evidenced by a comment made by VP Dick Cheney earlier this week, the administration doesn't listen to what we're saying.

Z

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 07:01:26 AM
So people in the us are anti war and anti violence? give me a break :P

I didn't say anything about fitting the list. More like thinking whether the list is useful or not.

its about as useful as saying 'the sky is blue, but sometimes its black...
both statements true, but says absolutely nothing....
that list of statements could fit ANYONE....
ask anybody you know, they would fit a few of those points... zomg it works!
but does it?


Defining trait for m2fs: have penis/had penis....
zomg, its true...
but its stating the bloody obvious like half of those points. then again, half are stereotyped feminine traits.... and nicely fit with the BS stereotype therapists can imagine of transpeople from THEIR experience of them, NOT a general experience...
R >:D

Wow, I never woulda thought such a seemingly innocent list would provoke such strong reactions!

I mean it's just a list of traits some people MIGHT relate to, isn't it? I don't think it's meant to be the beginnings of an oppressive political-gatekeeper agenda or anything. No one said "you must score 15 or higher to be a true TS." I think the intent is to just help and comfort some people by showing them that they're not alone with their feelings, that other people feel the same ways they do.

~Kate~

yeah.  It's just a list of traits that someone may have.

It's not like a required or even a certainty that someone would have even one such trait if they even have any of them.

But "nothing is easy with eyes closed / misunderstanding all you see"

Quote from: Kate on March 27, 2008, 08:36:05 AM
Wow, I never woulda thought such a seemingly innocent list would provoke such strong reactions!

I mean it's just a list of traits some people MIGHT relate to, isn't it?

My sentiments exactly. Psychology is BUILT on this sort of thing. There's a whole branch, Psychometry, dedicated to finding commonalities between people. Every time you take an IQ or an aptitute test, or one of those "are you a cat or a dog person" thingees, that's psychometry. In the absence of being able to study thoughts and emotions directly, or do post mortem thingees to your brain, this is the ONLY way for psychology to collect data, and they are well aware of the fact that not every body will fit any list they come up with.

Guys have a higher aptitude for technical and spacial thinking, while women have a higher aptitude for language skills.

That's a fairly well-known maxim from years of fifth grade aptitude tests. Does that mean EVERY woman HAS to know at least 5 languages or she isn't a woman? No, just that she is more likely to than the average guy. AVERAGE is what lists are all about. This is just a list of averages. If you're not average, congratulations.

Quote from: Kate on March 27, 2008, 08:36:05 AM
Wow, I never woulda thought such a seemingly innocent list would provoke such strong reactions!

I mean it's just a list of traits some people MIGHT relate to, isn't it? I don't think it's meant to be the beginnings of an oppressive political-gatekeeper agenda or anything. No one said "you must score 15 or higher to be a true TS." I think the intent is to just help and comfort some people by showing them that they're not alone with their feelings, that other people feel the same ways they do.

~Kate~

Read the initial post, and the posters replys, it was MEANT by thier therapist as a list of common trans traits, and the posters subsequently goes on to state that the more things that fit you, the more 'stereotypical a transsexual' you are.... thier own words.
sounds like a pissing contest to me. not a friendly 'ooh look at this'

any list of traits or statements suggesting things about people will evoke strong reactions, welcome to the world of 'telling people how they think and why people dont like it'
R >:D

psychometry ehhhh?     :eusa_think:


I didn't see it as a pissing contest.  People were just saying "that's interesting".

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 08:55:37 AM
any list of traits or statements suggesting things about people will evoke strong reactions, welcome to the world of 'telling people how they think and why people dont like it'

I guess it depends on the attitude and expectations you bring to the table.

I'm wondering... those of you who took offense at this, have you read the book "True Selves?" If so, did you find it offensive and insulting too?

Much of the reason I loved that book was because of the comfort I found in realizing that many TSs went through the same things I did, felt the same feelings, developed the same hangups, etc.

But did you all read it and feel insulted and stereotyped and degraded instead?

~Kate~

I, too, didn't see any pissing contests. It seemed to me more like look as these stereotypes. I certainly read it as a ooh look at this kind of thing.

Just to clarify folks, I made a blunder:

The field in psychology of statistically profiling people based on traits is psychometrics.

Psychometry is the psychic ability to see or otherwise experience the history of an object or place by touching it

QuoteRead the initial post, and the posters replys, it was MEANT by thier therapist as a list of common trans traits, and the posters subsequently goes on to state that the more things that fit you, the more 'stereotypical a transsexual' you are.... thier own words.
sounds like a pissing contest to me. not a friendly 'ooh look at this'

I was the original poster and I HAVE NO IDEA how you got that out of what I wrote below or any of my
replies because that is not what I think and was not my intention. :)

Rachael are you serious? ??? You are flat wrong... it WAS an "ohh look at this"... I thought the list was good
because it helped me. Period.  I don't give a rip if you are TS or I'm a better TS than you. I could care
less. I'm very happy with who I am. I HAVE NO IDEA how good the list is when applied to others, but I do know
the list fit ME and explained a lot of  things for ME. The ONLY reason I posted it was to see if others did not
fit the list exactly as I did not. And yes I found that out.

Ask yourself this, "Why would Amanda want say people here are not really TS?" I have no reason to
do that and I think if your here at susans(in the MTF/FTM forums) you are absolutely TS. And truthfully,
if you're not I DON'T CARE. I'm here for ME and to share with people that have gone through what I've experienced.

So... in all sincerity... have a great day, life's to too short to waste on BS like this! :) :)

QuoteMy therapist gave me a ton of reading material a few weeks ago and I'm just now getting
through it all. One was a handout that listed many TS traits. I have many of these, if not
all but for a couple I'm almost totally opposite and I was curious if anyone else was like that. For
example, I was somewhat shy as a child but as an adult I've never been shy. I've also never
been depressed. Anyway many of you may have already seen this list, the handout was
titled "We are Transsexuals".

Quote from: lady amarant on March 26, 2008, 08:42:10 AM
Stereotypes become stereotypes because they are often true. Just because a stereotype exists though, does not mean that it is true for everybody within the group. EVERYTHING works on a bell curve, where a big section of the group will be near the middle of any particular range of results, with fewer and fewer people out towards the edges. Due to my absolutely screwed up nature, I fall on the one end of the spectrum, while people who do not conform to the list fall towards the other end of the spectrum.

This is how science works folks, for better or worse. You make a series of observations, and then you start drawing conclusions and making predictions. Your model might be incomplete, causing some conclusions to be wrong, but that simply means your model is incomplete, not necessarily wrong. (Though obviously, it might well be)

There's nothing scientific about stereotypes.  They are a form of self-fulfilling prophecy.  Once people are labelled as something, they tend to start conforming to the stereotypes that go with the label.

Quote from: lady amarant on March 27, 2008, 09:21:18 AM
Just to clarify folks, I made a blunder:

The field in psychology of statistically profiling people based on traits is psychometrics.

Psychometry is the psychic ability to see or otherwise experience the history of an object or place by touching it

Too bad, shorty (I'm assuming your short), I like the word psychometry and I'm sticking with it.   :laugh:

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 06:28:02 AM
i made a statistic! 79% of all transsexuals wear clothes!
83% of all statistics are true dontcha know....
R >:D

"67% of all statistics are made up, including this one."
--Dogbert

Quote from: Rebis on March 27, 2008, 09:36:53 AM
[Too bad, shorty (I'm assuming your short), I like the word psychometry and I'm sticking with it.   :laugh:

Sadly no. I am, in fact, a model/volleyball player without the looks ... sigh.

so you dont wear clothes then ? *s->-bleeped-<-s*
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 09:42:06 AM
so you dont wear clothes then ? *s->-bleeped-<-s*
R >:D

Due to my appalling appearance, local government has forbidden me from NOT wearing clothes. I hear that next up is a law requiring a bag over my head. Hopefully, not a plastic bag...

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on March 27, 2008, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 09:42:06 AM
so you dont wear clothes then ? *s->-bleeped-<-s*
R >:D

Due to my appalling appearance, local government has forbidden me from NOT wearing clothes. I hear that next up is a law requiring a bag over my head. Hopefully, not a plastic bag...

I have the same issue.  I'm pretty close to dressing like those women that are all covered up in the arab lands.

Hi,

I agree that some items on this list apply to a large majority of the population but I think some are focused on any girl or a transsexual pre-transition. eg. some may not want a picture of themselves as a boy/girl.

One obvious thing that isn't on that list, I noticed, was speech as boys and girls speak in different ways. It's quite noticeable in the U.K. For example men swear more.

Aside from this I was wondering if the word "chavs" is used in the U.S. I'm just interested to know.

Sarah

oops!
I need to correct my math.
I calculated the percent from the average.
I shouldn't have done that.

The correct formula is:

the total number of points right which is 8
of 25 (the total number of questions)
So 8 is what percent of 25?
or
8 = Q% x 25
so 8 divided by 25 equals= .32
moving the decimal two places to the right gives us 32%

that sounds accurate.

32%
for me.

That's still way below an F.
Almost accurate a third of the time.
not very good, but better than my 1.28 % error.

Still not very good though.

To do this truly scientifically, we'd have to have a bunch of people take this as a true/false/inbetween test as I did and then average the scores together of a bunch of people and then use that to get the accuracy of the list overall.

My guess is that an average would be higher than it was for me.
However I still do not think it would be very accurate.
Somewhere between 40-60 percent accurate would be my guess.
Saying that no greater than 60 at best.
That would be my guess.

-Sara

Quote from: foreversarah on March 27, 2008, 10:36:31 AM

Aside from this I was wondering if the word "chavs" is used in the U.S. I'm just interested to know.

Sarah

as far as i know, the new world is free of this infestation....
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 11:49:24 AM
as far as i know, the new world is free of this infestation....
R >:D

Just the word, or the entire phenomenon?  ;)

Hi

Chavs are the people who smoke or did smoke under age, take drugs, are up until 4 am, dont care about anything, go around in gangs, wear hoods, annoy people and hate Gordon Brown or David Cameron (Condervitave leader).

It's become a word in the Oxford dictionary.

I was just interested. They're a minority of the British population and very annoying. I've been to the USA twice and havent seen anybody of the sort so I guess you're right.

Sarah

im sorry, i forgot that transsexuality was a joke....

Taking yourself too seriously prevents - rather than encourages - others from taking you seriously at all.  Its like the 'cool' deal, if you have to tell others, its not working out too well for you.  Not that its always a joke, its not always an R&J style tragedy either (though I must confess every time I do R&J I see it more and more as a comedy).  Getting so worked up over a list, this list or any list, is kind of silly.

Smoke. stay up till 4, wear hoodies.... love, your describing half the student population of the country ;)

CHAV: anacronim.... Council house assisted vermin....

they are your trailer trash, crossed with ghetto yobs.... or whatever... think the projects...
R >:D

Hi

Or "and violent"   ;D I hate them all though. To me there's a clear difference between chavs and normal people. The area where my college is is infested with them. :icon_yikes: I just wanna go at them with my chainsaw.  :icon_chainsaw:  :D.

Sarah

you Brits need a new country.   May I suggest Texas?   Feel free to start the bombing.

Hi

Texas is a bit too hot for me.  ;D I prefer the cold weather we have, we just had snow a few days a go and the average temp is still below 20C. I also love the Norfolk accent such as "on the h" which means on the wonk and I like cups of tea. Chavs are very masculine as well so I keep as far away as possible.

Sarah

Well I don't smoke anymore and I haven't touched any alcohol for over twenty years, but I love drinking coffee and staying up till 4:00 or 5:00 am catching up on some reading in different forums, I like Rock music and can still dance me up a storm.

As far as climate in Vancouver BC. I am happy with it, the coldest temp on average in the winter is +5C and up to +30C on average during the summer.  I am a social person and like to socialise and I have meetups with other ladies of similar likes and interests, so ya, I like BC ok.

Cindy

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM


We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions-----Exact opposite here.  I am extremely emotional.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others----kind of yes and kind of no
We are very insecure-----absolutely
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone----I do have close friends even before transition, but I still like to spend time alone.  Growing up though, no close friends, and wanted to always be alone
We exhibit extreme shyness at times----absolutel
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance--Before transition, absolutely
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves---yup, did it all the time
We often have inattention to health issues----I have always been pretty health
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity---wow this is dead on how I was
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities---nope
We often have well above average intelligence---Yes
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.---I am a research analyst, so yes.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground---mostly noncompetitive here, I wonder how I got through law school
We are very imaginative daydreamers---Absolutely.
We display self destructive behavior---I very well have at times. 
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.---I will say I am not racist or homophobic, but I have absolutely no tolerance for conservatives, generalize the south as bigoted and backwards, and yeah.  I don't like the south, conservatives and republicans.  My tolerance only extends to those who are tolerant of those who are different. 
We are anti-war and anti death penalty---yes and yes
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives---absolutely
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation----Not very likely.
We have deep seated hatred of authority---depends who the authority is, if its surgeons with a gatekeeper attitude absolutely.  Oh wait I don't like corporations or republicans either, so I would say maybe. 
We have on and off battles with clinical depression---anxiety and kind of depression
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice--yes
We are able to easily read peoples emotions---depends when
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics----I was very good at history.  I was born with a learning disability with regards to reading.  Eventually I overcame it and excelled.
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts----Never did.

Quote from: Lisbeth on March 27, 2008, 09:39:28 AM

Quote from: Rachael on March 27, 2008, 06:28:02 AM
i made a statistic! 79% of all transsexuals wear clothes!
83% of all statistics are true dontcha know....
R >:D

"67% of all statistics are made up, including this one."
--Dogbert

Statistics give me the pips!!  ;D   :o   :-\

89% of statistics use falsified values... and the remaining 21% have mathematical errors.

Quote from: cindybc on March 27, 2008, 04:04:49 PM
Well I don't smoke anymore and I haven't touched any alcohol for over twenty years, but I love drinking coffee and staying up till 4:00 or 5:00 am catching up on some reading in different forums, I like Rock music and can still dance me up a storm.

As far as climate in Vancouver BC. I am happy with it, the coldest temp on average in the winter is +5C and up to +30C on average during the summer.  I am a social person and like to socialise and I have meetups with other ladies of similar likes and interests, so ya, I like BC ok.

Cindy

I'm a lot younger than you are Cindy and I start getting tired at around 12.00am. How do you do it? I don't drink and I have never smoked.....

Hi,

The chavs tend to loiter the streets at 4.00am, some people I know are proud of it, I'd rather stay at home ;D. I'm too lazy But I did stay up until 4.30am the other night messing around with friends and watching a movie.

Sarah

I loiter till 4 - ish, the night is beautiful. Even in London.

My pub is listed in a review as having a clientèle ranging from, 'the slightly chavvy to the simply psychotic' that's the way i like it. At least chavs are not horrible haw-hawwing students.

I really not sure Berliegh, I never did like to go to bed early as a kid. I would sometimes read comic books or sci-fi novels under the blanket with a flashlight. I worked at jobs where I worked mostly night shift so that I could have the day in the sun at the beach or doing work in the yard. I just loved being in the sun back then and I was dark as a Mex. I don't know really except that what became a habit became trait. I love sipping on a coffee while standing outside watching the sun come up in the morning. See the ground mist at the base of the mountains in the distance, the little birds, I love to listen to the little birds, then I just crash and sleep for a few hours.

Cindy   

That list is about 60% accurate for me. I don't think there is one list that is going to describe all TS.

Maybe we could start a list ourselves and come closer but its not gong to define everybody.

What makes me TS is I was born one sex and have always desired to be the other and with each and every passing year that desire has turned into a need. That need has become painful and life consuming and something had to give. My life has never been right and once I figured out I was actually a girl and should look like one its been a constant struggle with weight, hrt, and my ability to become one.

That list appears to be written for certain political parties as well. Personally I believe in the death penalty. I'm also very emotional. I don't have a deep seated hatred for authority. I've always figured away around it. If I need hormones, I got them. Gatekeepers be damned.

I'm not too sure about the tolerance thing. I hate child beaters, Bigots, people who throw god and the bible in my face telling me how wrong and sick I am.....list goes on. In fact I'm pretty intolerant of most people.


In fact, I'm pretty much a bitch.  :icon_punch:

this list is pretty accurate for me...  :-\

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - I do that.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others  - Yes.
We are very insecure - I am pretty insecure.
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - I have no friends. I can't trust them, and they don't know who I am.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Yes, I can be very shy.
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - Yes.
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - YES.
We often have inattention to health issues - I suppose.
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Very much so. I won't go partial nude at all. I always have a shirt and pants on.
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - Don't know about that.
We often have well above average intelligence - Again, I don't know about that.
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - Intense concentration? Does music count?
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - You could say I'm non-competitive.
We are very imaginative daydreamers - Very much so.
We display self destructive behavior - Sometimes.
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - Yup.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - Definitely.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives - Very much so.
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - I don't fight. So yes.
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Eh. I guess I've kind of grow out of that, but I still don't like some authority. =P
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - I do have depression I'm pretty sure.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - Yeah.
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - Sometimes.
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - That's definitely me.
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - I've had thoughts and plans, yes.

Wow.

oh dear....
should i go get the egg whisk and the flying helmet now? or later?
R >:D

Surprize, surprize.

I fit most of those listed, but then again we all are special people.


Love
Janet

hi.... wing wallker.   may be we dont know it.   we are so much alike .like me both male  & female  ....yea....some things yes most no     strange   o well worth a try i can swing both ways neat ...a...now more female ..... oh i know....i am a nut case   love it .   at least  i know .....do others   may be not .....noeleena....
.   

Quote from: noeleena on April 04, 2008, 02:58:55 AM
hi.... wing wallker.   may be we dont know it.   we are so much alike .like me both male  & female  ....yea....some things yes most no     strange   o well worth a try i can swing both ways neat ...a...now more female ..... oh i know....i am a nut case   love it .   at least  i know .....do others   may be not .....noeleena....
.   

Hi, Noeleena,

I find it curious that anyone might be sufficiently like me to post about it.  Since I know myself pretty well, please accept my condolences for any areas in which, according to that shopping list of neuroses, we are alike.

I am female but I cannot discard my prior lifetime and its experiences and learning.  I love my transsexuality.  It is a blessing ***to me*** to live two lives, one in each gender, in the same body, in the same lifetime.  I like that --- a whole lot.

Nut cases might have even more fun!  Enjoy!  If I can help you in any regard, please post on the board or send me a pm.

Wing Walker
Enjoying Her Flight

Hi Lori, I do so agree with your list of persons not to trust or like.

QuoteI hate child beaters, Bigots, people who throw god and the bible in my face telling me how wrong and sick I am.....list goes on. In fact I'm pretty intolerant of most people.

Here are a few more to add to your list. Rapists, woman beaters, sex perves, have you noticed that these are mostly male perpetrators? Don't get me wrong, I am not insinuating that all men are bad, I would be lying for I have worked right along side some men that were realy nice and caring and just as empathic as I am.

As for me, it is impossible for me to be angry for more then a few minutes then I get all upset and cry a lot. I will not judge or even evaluate another's integrity good or lack of. I leave the judges robes for Great Spirit to wear and do the judging. I believe as probably everyone here knows already that I had 11 kids under my roof though the years, so I supose that should speak for itself as to how I feel about children.

Maybe they should give these people the big snip, SRS and then drop them with the male population of a prison.

Cindy       

Hmm... well, I fit most of these categorization ... whatever that means.  :-\

I'll just point out two things:

QuoteWe often have well above average intelligence
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
...
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics

Hmmm... We're very smart and highly technical, but suck at math? Seems a bit self-contradictory, don't you think?

And then there's this:

QuoteWe gave deep seated hatred of authority

Yes, quite. Especially when it comes in the form of arbitrary diagnostic tools involving lists. :P

Quote from: Alyssa M. on April 04, 2008, 05:07:09 AM
Hmmm... We're very smart and highly technical, but suck at math? Seems a bit self-contradictory, don't you think?

Not necessarily. I mean, my basic math is very good. As soon as I hit calculus and higher algebra in uni though, I started struggling. I do okay as a programmer because I am able to figure out the underlying relationships between things fairly well, and I can probably code any algorithm I need to given a book thjat explains it, but that does not mean I really understand the math behind it all. I don't know how generally true that is, but for me, the trait is VERY accurate.

~Simone,
       Mathematically Challenged.

I see how they are a bit different, but given the context, "excelled in writing at an early age," I don't think abstract algebra and calculus were what the statements were getting at. It would be like demonstrating that I'm dexterous but illiterate by saying, "I learned to tie my shoes when I was very young, but failed utterly to get through The Brothers Karamazov." A bit of a category mismatch.

Also, I don't believe anyone who really gets programming (I don't mean particular algorithms, but the flow and structure in general) is bad at math, because math is fundamentally the same as programming: you invent little games and structures and push them around and see what they do. Unfortunately, that's not how math is taught, so a lot of people who are actually pretty good at math think they're no good at it. Check out what one disgruntled math teacher has to say:

http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_03_08.html

(a long article, but the gist of it comes across in the first two pages.)

I at one time could say that many of the points on that list  fit me to a T, but most are stuff I have already dealt with, but there are still a few that give me a hard time. Authority? "Hell yea!" Don't like authority much but I remain within the law. What sense would it make for me at my age to get put in jail for something like trying to be some showoffy rebel. wouldn't that be kind of a dumb thing to do? Pitz on it, ain't worth it anyway. I would be unable to do anything aggressive or violent anyway, for I am a none violent or aggressive person. "Aint there enough Dumb F'n S*it heads! out there as is?" Eventually they will self destruct when they get their what goes around gets around.

As for high intelligence, well I am certain that we would have to be smart in order to survive this dilemma that we find ourselves cornered into. You know how best to beat this? accept your lot then just simply flow with it, don't fight it, just flow. In the end it is as easy as putting on a pair of well fitting shoes. I love who I am and now it's time for me to shine the light and guide others along on their personal journey. 

Cindy

I get your point Alyssa, and thinking about it, the point about math is very true. My dad failed Standard 9 (Grade 11) because of math, was lucky enough to get a different teacher the next year, and ended up passing with distinction the next year.

Maybe sucking at math has more to do with the deep-seated hatred of authority...  >:D

~Simone,
      Mathematical Anarchist.

Quote from: lady amarant on April 04, 2008, 05:52:54 AM
Maybe sucking at math has more to do with the deep-seated hatred of authority...  >:D

~Simone,
      Mathematical Anarchist.

Mine is a deep seated hatred for math.

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 08:01:23 AM
Mine is a deep seated hatred for math.

Hear, hear! If the gods had meant for us to do math, they wouldn't have given us calculators.

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on April 04, 2008, 09:05:50 AM

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 08:01:23 AM
Mine is a deep seated hatred for math.

Hear, hear! If the gods had meant for us to do math, they wouldn't have given us calculators.

Nay-saying heathens!

~Simone,
       Fundamentalist Mathematical Anarchist.

Quote from: lady amarant on April 04, 2008, 09:25:44 AM
Nay-saying heathens!

~Simone,
       Fundamentalist Mathematical Anarchist.

I prefer to think of myself as a heathsaying nayen, if you don't mind.

QuoteWe're very smart and highly technical, but suck at math? Seems a bit self-contradictory, don't you think?

Not at all. There are many vocations that are very technical where no math skills are needed. I think it's a mistake to
believe that getting math == higher intelligence. That may be true for some but for me I have a high IQ but don't
get math at all. I have a brother that is an mechanical engineer that uses math I can't even begin to comprehend
that does not get programming at all. He struggles just as much with programming as I do with math.

QuoteAlso, I don't believe anyone who really gets programming (I don't mean particular algorithms, but the flow and structure in
general) is bad at math, because math is fundamentally the same as programming: you invent little games and structures
and push them around and see what they do.

I get programming... it's inborn in me I think but I struggled though math starting at grade one right through college. It was
not that I could NOT do it, it was just a tremendous, painful struggle. I picked up programming the first day just like reading
or writing, it was effortless and I excelled at it. I can't say I ever excelled in  math ever.

Quote
Unfortunately, that's not how math is taught, so a lot of people who are actually pretty good at math think they're no good at it.

Being good at something is relative. I'm a great programmer but horrible with math relatively speaking. I don't doubt that
having a good teacher might have helped(I never had one ever, so I don't think it was the teachers)  but.... math, of any kind was
a struggle no matter who my teacher was, whereas reading, writing, speaking was fluid and effortless to learn. As was programming,
it came naturally and I never struggled with it at all. To me learning math was learning rigid rules of how things work, programming
is a visual process in my mind using my imagination. There are no rules and there are many methods of solving the same
problem, all of which are correct. When programming I see the structures in my mind and manipulate them with code.  Now
maybe math is the same way, but I was never taught math like that, and I don't get it. :)

Amanda

That's why terms like "well above average intelligence" are survey equivalents to cow pies.  They just lay there and stink until somebody steps in them. 

I bet if I walked down the street I would get close to a 70% "YES" reply to the question "Are you of average or above average intelligence?"  People do not tend to think of themselves as dumb.  Given that, as I said earlier - and all over the place - by what standard?  IQ tests?  GPA?  (and then you get into schools, all 3.76 GPAs are not equal), abilities (and I would weigh heavy on ability over knowing in theory), accomplishments?  What? 

So, in theory - because I know less than nothing about it - programmers are not good at math per se, they are good at languages.  Programing is more about language than math, and the people I know who do well at it are good in languages for the most part.  The hardware designers are much more math based then the programmers, who are, at root, writing commands, not formulas.

And not all technical thingies are math dependent.  Yeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs, but the people here who went to WyoTech, who repair things, who work at craft based work like carpenter, electrical workers, people in health care, who don't use tons of math (no more than basic arithmetic, but no calculations) yet do some pretty technical work. 

   I would be interested in information on T people who are learning disabled or otherwise challenged.   I've been wondering about them since I came out to myself and I worry about them a lot.

   I am not saying I pity the learning disabled.  Just that I worry that they may be abused or taken advantaged of or just thrown to the side.

   There's got to be such people.  Maybe they don't know enough to speak out or maybe they are ignored when they do.

QuoteYeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs,

Really? I'm curious, now... I did not realize there were that many programmers that were TS and
post here. I only know of three others. Simone, Alyssa and I won't name the third
because I can't remember if she has said it publicly :)

Has anyone ever done an occupation poll? If not would everyone be willing to respond?

I think it's interesting to see what TS's excel at and have chosen to do.

:)

Amanda

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - check
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others  - check
We are very insecure - in some cases, yes
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - check
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - check
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - sometimes i just dont care what i look like
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - check
We often have inattention to health issues - check
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - not extreme here, but modest yes
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - check
We often have well above average intelligence - check
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations - computer programmer
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - non-comp here, layed back
We are very imaginative daydreamers - check
We display self destructive behavior - check
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - nope
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - check
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - check
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - i hate cops with radar guns pointing at me :)
We have on and off battles with clinical depression  - check
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - check
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - most times, yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - nope
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - some thoughts when depressed


Very interesting survey

QuoteI bet if I walked down the street I would get close to a 70% "YES" reply to the question "Are you of average or above average intelligence?"  People do not tend to think of themselves as dumb.  Given that, as I said earlier - and all over the place - by what standard?  IQ tests?  GPA?  (and then you get into schools, all 3.76 GPAs are not equal), abilities (and I would weigh heavy on ability over knowing in theory), accomplishments?  What? 

Yes, I agree. I read a study about a year ago that said the most incompetent people did not know they
were incompetent and actually judged themselves to be very competent. I took that study to heart :) but then
I concluded based on the things you mentioned, IQ, GPA, ability and accomplishments that I was not one of the
incompetents :) And I also concluded that since I've always been VERY willing to admit my weaknesses...and math is a
biggie for me, that I would know better than anyone where any incompetence lies and be willing to admit to it.

QuoteSo, in theory - because I know less than nothing about it - programmers are not good at math per se, they are good at languages.  Programing is more about language than math, and the people I know who do well at it are good in languages for the most part.  The hardware designers are much more math based then the programmers, who are, at root, writing commands, not formulas.

It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizing the data structures and underlying data that is
stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own
ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 04, 2008, 12:25:29 PM
It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizingan the data structures and underlying data that is
stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own
ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

Amanda - I agree. I hate math (except geometry) but generally find that in my day to day programming activities just knowing basic math skills suffices since I am solving business related problems, not trying to do gee whiz scientific stuff. It is my belief that organizing and writing a well constructed program or system is more an art/logic skill than a science skill.

That's five of us :)

You know... I had forgotten but geometry was one of my easier math classes and I did enjoy it.

Amanda

solving business related problems, not trying to do gee whiz scientific stuff

In fact, outside of physics (and even then it more pretend math) science has little math outside of basic arithmetic.  Business, on the other had, is all math.  All the people, the products, the suppliers, the clients, the delivery system, all pay homage to the bottom line.  The biggest business decisions are made by the person who is the de-facto CFO - the person who controls the double-entry accounting system.  Its the spread sheet that is/was the killer ap for business.

The math that  I've struggled with is the higher math... algebra, calculus( ??? OMG that was hard),
fractals, statistics and the like.

I can do business math/accounting in my sleep without even counting on my fingers :)

I love my accountant - I ask him how much two plus two is and he asks me back "How much do you want it to be."  At the level of big business the cost accounting is very much a higher based math function, and when it breaks down, it really falls apart. 

I work in a business where the accounting system was ripped off from the publishing industry, who created this accounting system from the same stuff their fiction writers were working from - whole cloth.  I have a story from someone I interviewed, transcribed it runs two pages single space, that is almost a psychedelic fantasy about how its possible to make a record that goes gold and still end up owing the record company money.  Very funny stuff, as long as its not your life story.

And I always wondered why calc was taught along geometry and algebra, where the second two have a lot of real world use, and calc is only used to solve a very specific problem, one that rarely occurs in everyday life.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 04, 2008, 12:25:29 PM
It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizing the data structures and underlying data that is stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

I visualize it too.

I don't do a lot of programming, though.  I work in IT and I do whatever comes my way.  I've written some code and changed other people's code.  A lot of it was markup language, so I don't know if that counts as programming, though I had 2 semesters of C++.

Visualizing seems to upset the left brainers.  I refuse to describe what I'm doing to them because they demand details and crap that are really only a piece of the big picture.

QuoteI love my accountant - I ask him how much two plus two is and he asks me back "How much do you want it to be."  At the level of big business the cost accounting is very much a higher based math function, and when it breaks down, it really falls apart.

That sounds almost like my therapist... what is the meaning of two plus two.... what do you think it mean? :)

Quote from: tekla on April 04, 2008, 01:29:17 PM
I work in a business where the accounting system was ripped off from the publishing industry, who created this accounting system from the same stuff their fiction writers were working from - whole cloth.  I have a story from someone I interviewed, transcribed it runs two pages single space, that is almost a psychedelic fantasy about how its possible to make a record that goes gold and still end up owing the record company money.  Very funny stuff, as long as its not your life story.

Tekla,

A few years ago I read a breakdown of how much a band ends up with after the record companies w/ creative accountants get their "share". Might've been on Courney Love's site, I don't remember. I'd like to see the story from your interviewee if it's available.

Z

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 01:33:19 PM
Visualizing seems to upset the left brainers.  I refuse to describe what I'm doing to them because they demand details and crap that are really only a piece of the big picture.

:D

I visualize also. If I don't have a mental picture of what I need to do then I can't do it. Sometimes I sit and stare off into space and people think i'm not working when actually i'm building that mental image I need to do the job.

Quote
I visualize it too.
I don't do a lot of programming, though.  I work in IT and I do whatever comes my way.  I've written some code and changed other people's code.  A lot of it was markup language, so I don't know if that counts as programming, though I had 2 semesters of C++.

Markup up language counts in my book, it's more concerned with visual content but it is still a form of programming. And of
course C++ does. I've live and breathe C++ :)

Quote
Visualizing seems to upset the left brainers.  I refuse to describe what I'm doing to them because they demand details and crap that are really only a piece of the big picture.

I can see that :)

Amanda

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 04, 2008, 03:41:25 PM
Every time you type something I hear it in Bender's voice now

me too.  I've actually been holding back because I want to continually mouth off.   It's weird.

very weird.

Quote from: Rebis on April 04, 2008, 11:47:10 AM

   I would be interested in information on T people who are learning disabled or otherwise challenged.   I've been wondering about them since I came out to myself and I worry about them a lot.

   I am not saying I pity the learning disabled.  Just that I worry that they may be abused or taken advantaged of or just thrown to the side.

   There's got to be such people.  Maybe they don't know enough to speak out or maybe they are ignored when they do.

Hmmm, I used to be slightly dyslexic as a child, though that's pretty-much gone away now.

Posted on: 05 April 2008, 04:10:23

---

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 04, 2008, 12:04:21 PM

QuoteYeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs,

Really? I'm curious, now... I did not realize there were that many programmers that were TS and
post here. I only know of three others. Simone, Alyssa and I won't name the third
because I can't remember if she has said it publicly :)

Has anyone ever done an occupation poll? If not would everyone be willing to respond?

I think it's interesting to see what TS's excel at and have chosen to do.

:)

Amanda

It's probably a stereotype, (Another one! Aaaaaaaarg!) but an inordinate number of the TS people I know are in IT in one way or another - not necessarily all programmers (though a significant number are) but either in tech-support, or installations or DBA's or whatever.

For the record, I don't actually work as a programmer anymore. I've worked as a disabled care assistant for about a year now, before that spent a year doing temp-work while travelling across South Africa, and before that a year teaching English in Taiwan. I haven't programmed professionally in 3 or 4 years now.

My GID came to a head just as I started my working life post uni, so alot of the loathing and unhappiness imprinted on programming, not to mention the fact that I couldn't concentrate on my work, was subsequently crap at it, and took a major knock in self-confidence and enjoyment. I still program on-and-off for my boss or for personal projects, but I shudder at the idea of going back to it professionally.

Posted on: 05 April 2008, 04:20:15

---

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 04, 2008, 12:25:29 PM
It's really more than writing commands, to me programming is mostly about visualizing the data structures and underlying data that is stored in a computer and manipulating them. And there are no real rules on how you do that and you're free to develop your own ways to do it, unlike math which is all about formulas and rules that are set in stone.

Amanda

Hmmm. I also find that my programming has a lot more to do with seeing it like a picture or a story in my mind than figuring it out - except when I'm counting loops. I love data modelling and manipulation problems because it's fascinating to take a real-world scenario and abstract it into its ... essence, I suppose. On the other hand, doing straight coding work like writing front-ends and infrastructure and the like killed it for me, because there's nothing to play with in your mind. It's a schlep, pure and simple.

~Simone.

Quote from: lady amarant on April 05, 2008, 04:26:44 AM
I also find that my programming has a lot more to do with seeing it like a picture or a story in my mind than figuring it out

Mm, yes, something like that. One thing that really made an impression back when was Knuth's idea of literary programming: that software is ultimately not an engineering project but a literary work. Of course, the way he did it (with TeX and other related stuff) never really hit off, but the basic idea still feels right to me. In fact, now that I think of it, quite a few of the mental processes I learned for programming are also useful for a related literary genre, the research paper.

  Nfr

This list fits me to a t, I have all of them, except for maybe one or two.

Hugz,
Ariana

hi... Rebis .     maths  . me i  was no good at it .    writing no spellling no  reading no . i was all ways last in the class .  i went to a reading class i think it helped .   at 13 i went to a high school just for 2 years .  when i left i was 2nd to the top why . wood work was my thing . sports to a point ,  i am a left handed yet i use my right as well.    i built a car shed a 20 ft by 12 ft from the ground up all of it.    left school went in to the cabinat making then building in 1963 plus now we call it dyslextic yes well . i can do all of those things now   just not at school .   so maths did i need it .  its a wonder i got a job doing building   so over 40 years i have done it.   so what we need is people to give us a try . & i have done that as well   so there you go.... love life live life   can we yes we can & as females thats me ....noeleena.... :)

I was in remedial maths, and I only learnt to tell the time when i was 13... numbers just doesn't stick, nor does the alphabet.

Interesting, more ways to be garden variety I guess ;P

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - Yup, before
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Yup, before
We are very insecure - Yup
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - Yup
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Yup
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - Yup, mostly before
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Yup.. hated my pictures before
We often have inattention to health issues - Yup
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Yup, mostly before
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - Kinda sorta maybe, I'm a daredevil
We often have well above average intelligence - Ahem... yes, yes, of course...
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - I don't know, I'm a lazy dork with a taste for everything knowledge. Can't concentrate a lot unless I'm in the mood.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - Hard to tell, I'm competitive but I don't show it.
We are very imaginative daydreamers - Yup
We display self destructive behavior - I have, before
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - I have had thoughts of the sort, but I think all racism and homophobia is heinous.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - I'm a pacifist but I love to study wars. Death penalty... better investigation required to validate it.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - Totally me before.
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Unless I'm tanking an instance in full plate, then I'm all Battle Shout.
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Oh boy yes. And distrust.
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - Yep, I guess.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - I think so.
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - Totally.
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Totally me, Math and me don't mix
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - Yeah, mostly before

Well... Here goes LoL


We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - Used to do that...

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Still do up to a point, but its for diffrent reasons now.

We are very insecure - Sometimes, but not allways... before I most deffinatly was.

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - Ummmmm, Id Nix on this one... I have more than a few close friends... though I now wonder what I was thinking... and I generaly hate being alone, though when I need my space I need my space..

We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Yeah, still kinda shy, unless Im on stage... but Im horrable with one on one situations with new people.

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - I used to be a "man" in black... everything was black... though I did take care of my appearance for the sake of others around me.

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Ive burnt all but one or two pictures of myself... the ones I could get ahold of atleast... and when I get my hands on more, !!WOOSH!!   Now, I dont mind so long as they'r taken with a decent camara. <camara phones lenses bring out allot of bad physical traits>

We often have inattention to health issues - Prettymuch yeah... I hate doctors... and will do my best to avoid them at all costs.

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Most deffinatly, its true for both now and before, though I try to be alittle more open now... but Im not very good at it.

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - I used to "accidentaly" injure myself, in the hope Id injure the right part of myself and force this all on my family in a way they could better cope with.  <I was looking for an excuse>  I had started working for my father when I was 12...  When I stopped doing that, I became subconciously suicidal... and I did some really really crazy and dangerous things... and loved it.

We often have well above average intelligence - Im freaking brilliant... though I think I was allot smarter before I drank all that alchahol and did all those drugs....

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - yep yep, deffinatly true... if I dont have to think on the job... I dont like the job. and I LOVE working with my hands.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - Generaly not competitive... though if I was in the mood to be... I won... end of story.

We are very imaginative daydreamers - Huh?  Sorry, I was lost in thought.

We display self destructive behavior - Daredevil jobs, intentional accidents, drugs, alchahol... rebelous, punkrock lifestyle... you tell me  :P

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - Im Racist against stoopid people....  everybody else is cool though  XD

We are anti-war and anti death penalty - Depends on the war... but generaly speaking, I think we shouldnt be mucking about in other countries affairs like we are...  and the death penalty should exist, but it needs more strict guidelines... Instead of proving beyond a shadow of a dobut... it should be proving conclusivly... and by unanimous jurry....

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - DONT YOU KNOW HOW TO KNOCK!!!!!  "GRRRRRRRRRRRAH!!"

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Before, I was very violent... It was purely part of my denial of who I was... but I felt I needed to put on one heck of a show for people...  Besides, when you cant JUST hurt yourself... why not get the biggest meanest person in a place to do it for you?   Now, I'll only fight if I absolutely positivly have to...

We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Only if Im not the authority

We have on and off battles with clinical depression - yep yep, sounds about right.

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice -Generaly speaking, yes. Cept over the phone... the loss of quality of the sound can throw me off till I catch actual speach paterns.

We are able to easily read peoples emotions - For the most part, yes...

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Yep yep, most deffinatly... cept with the math thing... I was a total math whiz... though now Im pretty rusty  *shrugs*    Use it or loose it right?

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - In the past, yeah... and even durring the really really rough periods in the last few years...  but for the most part they stay at bay  :)

Well... since I started the topic I guess I should answer the questions :)

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions -- My wife referred to me as the Ice Princess in our early years.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Can't even get close to that pre-HRT, now it's like a magic door has been opened.
We are very insecure - yes, relationships, looks, but everyone knows that already :)
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone, I have two close friends both are female. One on one is OK, but I do not like crowds of people.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - when young I was extremely shy, not so much anymore.
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance yep, on both
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - exclusively, unless forced.
We often have inattention to health issues - yes, never had any serious issues but I do not see doctors for anything
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity yep, not even in front of my SO
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - yes, activities, the more dangerous the better
We often have well above average intelligence - sometimes I think I'm pretty dumb but IQ tests show otherwise
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. yes.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground, very competitive to a fault. win at all costs
We are very imaginative daydreamers yes, since I was very young
We display self destructive behavior - yes, at times, very self destructive
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. yes - very sympathetic to others plights
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - unless we are defending ourselves and yes, there is no place for the death penalty
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives, I don't like anyone knowing anything about my life. I can post here because it is somewhat anonymous and I really need you guys :)
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation, never and if given the opportunity I'll run :)
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - not a hatred but questioning of authority of any kind, teachers, government, etc.
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - no, sad but not to the level of depression
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - absolutely
We are able to easily read peoples emotions, yes, very easy
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - correct
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - attempted when young, nothing since

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Thats the only one that didn't apply to me and now that I know who I am and like myself several others don't now apply and working on a lot of the others.
Sheena

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 04, 2008, 12:04:21 PM

QuoteYeah we have a lot of people in here who have programming jobs,

Really? I'm curious, now... I did not realize there were that many programmers that were TS and
post here. I only know of three others. Simone, Alyssa and I won't name the third
because I can't remember if she has said it publicly :)

Has anyone ever done an occupation poll? If not would everyone be willing to respond?

I think it's interesting to see what TS's excel at and have chosen to do.

:)

Amanda

Part of my major includes motion scripting and scripting languages.
I don't know if you would call that programming, but it is using scripting languages.
I guess simple programming, although I only sew together, I don't write programs uless you consider web and UI programs.

-Sara

Quote from: Sheena on April 07, 2008, 09:49:55 PM
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Thats the only one that didn't apply to me and now that I know who I am and like myself several others don't now apply and working on a lot of the others.
Sheena

I did well with writing at an early age and I did find long division mathmatics difficult but I don't think it's related to gender or transsexuality. I didn't get a very good education and I was bullied a lot....for guess what?......yes for looking feminine and I was constantly beaten up quite badly and subsequently missed a lot of my schooling...

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 04, 2008, 12:04:21 PM
Really? I'm curious, now... I did not realize there were that many programmers that were TS and
post here.

(raises hand too)

Don't tell M. Bailey about this though... he'll do a study proving that programming *causes* TSism ;)

~Kate~

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 09, 2008, 09:33:14 AM
Well, clearly

Programmers are nerds.
All nerds are heterosexual and male, and therefore desire women (because asexuality does not exist).
Therefore, all programmers desire women.
Nerds are unable to attract women.
It so follows that programmers are unable to attract women.
An alternative to attracting a woman is becoming a woman.
Since programmers are unable to attract women, they become women instead.

The reason why only programmers become women and not all nerds in general do is because programmers are a type of super-nerd.

As always, trans men do not exist because they were left off of Noah's ark along with centaurs, unicorns, the cyclops, and the Scientific Method.

:eusa_clap: :eusa_clap: :eusa_clap:

~Simone

More like computer programers have access to computers and the net and are more likely to be found on net forums.


and the death penalty should exist, but it needs more strict guidelines... Instead of proving beyond a shadow of a dobut... it should be proving conclusivly... and by unanimous jurry....

Well I don't know about Texas, but everywhere else in the US in order to be found guilty you need all (that is unanimous) 12 people on the jury to agree, further they all have to agree to the death penalty in a separate phase of the trial.  The standard in a criminal trial is "Beyond a reasonable doubt" and that is a very high standard of proof.  Civil trials only use the standard "a preponderance of the evidence," a much lower burden of proof.  For most people the standard "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a conclusive proof, without any doubt.

*lol*
^_^

Kind of disturbing how accurate that list is for me.

I have no background as an actual programmer so to speak, but I do computational physics. So I actually do program in C++ and Fortran.   

Thanks for sharing this list.

I used to support the death penalty, until I read a story of a boy (who was 45 at the time of the story) whose father was executed for murder when the boy was 9 years old. At the time of this particular story, the boy was a 45 year old man with an adult son on death row.

I don't support the death penalty anymore, even for homophobes and bigots. As much as I find it hard to accept, they have people who love them, too.

Quote
Well, clearly
Programmers are nerds.
All nerds are heterosexual and male, and therefore desire women (because asexuality does not exist).
Therefore, all programmers desire women.
Nerds are unable to attract women.
It so follows that programmers are unable to attract women.
An alternative to attracting a woman is becoming a woman.
Since programmers are unable to attract women, they become women instead.
The reason why only programmers become women and not all nerds in general do is because programmers are a type of super-nerd.

I really hope you're joking :)

Ummm... aren't you stereotyping all programmers as nerds Redfish? I have to disagree with this totally :)

I had no trouble attracting women, I was popular, I was never in the nerd crowd in school (not that there is anything
wrong with being a nerd) and the ONLY reason I "became a woman" was because I am one.

If you were joking.... nevermind :)

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 09, 2008, 09:33:14 AM

As always, trans men do not exist because they were left off of Noah's ark along with centaurs, unicorns, the cyclops, and the Scientific Method.

with the androgynes for company.


And of course he was joking.

QuoteAnd of course he was joking.

I thought so :) .... GRRRRR but I'm in the mood for a fight.... hormones I guess....LOL

Amanda

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 09, 2008, 11:20:32 AM

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 09, 2008, 09:33:14 AM

As always, trans men do not exist because they were left off of Noah's ark along with centaurs, unicorns, the cyclops, and the Scientific Method.

with the androgynes for company.


And of course he was joking.

She was joking.

That  list was an eye opener! Now I know who Iam. LOL

Quote from: Jolene4ever on April 15, 2008, 05:43:55 AM
That  list was an eye opener! Now I know who Iam. LOL

Who are you?

Just kidding... :P

Quote from: Rebis on April 09, 2008, 12:27:56 PM

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 09, 2008, 11:20:32 AM

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 09, 2008, 09:33:14 AM

As always, trans men do not exist because they were left off of Noah's ark along with centaurs, unicorns, the cyclops, and the Scientific Method.

with the androgynes for company.


And of course he was joking.

She was joking.

OH MY GOD!

Redfish is a girl? Wtf!?

but they offered me puppies!
R >:D

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions (Yeah i do this ALOT )
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others (Heck if i dont have this trait i would have transition 2 years ago...)
We are very insecure ( Sums it up..)
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone (More girl friends than guys. The girls are clever and the guys are fools... Have to speak foul language just to start a darn conversation..... )
We exhibit extreme shyness at times (Well not much actually)
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance ( I look like those Cool looking guys... and i ****ing hate that )
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves ( Exclude family pictures....)
We often have inattention to health issues (Yes)
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity (Not really sure....)
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities (Yeah...)
We often have well above average intelligence (Mine intelligence is consider a lower average to a above average...)
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. (Yes)
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground (Nope i hate being competitive)
We are very imaginative daydreamers (Hell yes...)
We display self destructive behavior ( I dont show my *behavior* outside. )
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. (Yes)
We are anti-war and anti death penalty (Yes)
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives (Yes)
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation (Yes)
We gave deep seated hatred of authority (Yes)
We have on and off battles with clinical depression (Yes)
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice (Yes)
We are able to easily read peoples emotions (Yes) {This is somewhat scares my friends }
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics (Yes)
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts (Yes)

Quote from: Berliegh on March 25, 2008, 06:41:57 AM
This generalisation list doesn't respresent anything and all personalities have different interests in dealing with transgendered issue's. In particular most of these do not represent my character or personality:

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - no
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others no
We are very insecure no
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone not true
We exhibit extreme shyness at times no
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance no
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves no
We often have inattention to health issues no
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity no
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities never
We often have well above average intelligence yes
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. no
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground no
We are very imaginative daydreamers no
We display self destructive behavior no
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. yes
We are anti-war and anti death penalty yes
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives no
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation no
We gave deep seated hatred of authority no
We have on and off battles with clinical depression no
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice yes
We are able to easily read peoples emotions yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics yes
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts occasionally

only 6 out of 26.....related to me...

I'm with ya.  No offense to the OP, but it sounds to me like that therapist has NO CLUE as to what transsexualism (or even ->-bleeped-<-) is.  It as if someone made up as many bad things as they could think of when describing a type of person they don't like.

Aeron

Quote from: AeronTG on April 15, 2008, 02:44:19 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on March 25, 2008, 06:41:57 AM
This generalisation list doesn't respresent anything and all personalities have different interests in dealing with transgendered issue's. In particular most of these do not represent my character or personality:

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - no
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others no
We are very insecure no
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone not true
We exhibit extreme shyness at times no
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance no
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves no
We often have inattention to health issues no
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity no
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities never
We often have well above average intelligence yes
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. no
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground no
We are very imaginative daydreamers no
We display self destructive behavior no
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. yes
We are anti-war and anti death penalty yes
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives no
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation no
We gave deep seated hatred of authority no
We have on and off battles with clinical depression no
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice yes
We are able to easily read peoples emotions yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics yes
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts occasionally

only 6 out of 26.....related to me...

I'm with ya.  No offense to the OP, but it sounds to me like that therapist has NO CLUE as to what transsexualism (or even ->-bleeped-<-) is.  It as if someone made up as many bad things as they could think of when describing a type of person they don't like.

Aeron

Probably, like in all things (as shown by other people posting that it does aply to them), it works for most and not everyone. Also, these points apply mostly for m2fs in denial and not transitioners per se.

Most of those are true for me, but a few of them doesn't fit at all.

I don't take on dangerous activities, I'm not sure if I display self-destructive behavior. Maybe I did in the past. I don't have a hatred of authority, and while I have dealt with depression I don't think it has been as serious in my case as it has been for others. I'm also pretty great at maths.

Most of the others fit extremely well though.

Quote from: AeronTG on April 15, 2008, 02:44:19 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on March 25, 2008, 06:41:57 AM
This generalisation list doesn't respresent anything and all personalities have different interests in dealing with transgendered issue's. In particular most of these do not represent my character or personality:

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - no
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others no
We are very insecure no
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone not true
We exhibit extreme shyness at times no
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance no
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves no
We often have inattention to health issues no
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity no
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities never
We often have well above average intelligence yes
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. no
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground no
We are very imaginative daydreamers no
We display self destructive behavior no
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. yes
We are anti-war and anti death penalty yes
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives no
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation no
We gave deep seated hatred of authority no
We have on and off battles with clinical depression no
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice yes
We are able to easily read peoples emotions yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics yes
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts occasionally

only 6 out of 26.....related to me...

I'm with ya.  No offense to the OP, but it sounds to me like that therapist has NO CLUE as to what transsexualism (or even ->-bleeped-<-) is.  It as if someone made up as many bad things as they could think of when describing a type of person they don't like.

Aeron

on the money.
Works for indenial transpeople, fairly well id say, but since i transitioned ive lost most of those things;


We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - in denial response, if you transition, this isnt an issue
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others i find it easy, idscussing my feeling with my girlfriends is natural and easy
We are very insecure lol nope
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone plenty, i make friends easier after transition
We exhibit extreme shyness at times yeah, its a human trait
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance pretransition or female response... its called self esteem, not a trans issue
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves not unusual anyway
We often have inattention to health issues weird...
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity ->-bleeped-<-s do NOT have you SEEEN grs pics?
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities pretransition probably
We often have well above average intelligence yi doubt its related
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. no
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground wrong
We are very imaginative daydreamers human trait
We display self destructive behavior pre transition trait
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. WRONG, very very WRONG.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty nope
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives not really
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation youd not know it here....
We gave deep seated hatred of authority possibly some, i know i dont at all
We have on and off battles with clinical depression pre transition trait
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice human trait
We are able to easily read peoples emotions human thing
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics random...
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts pre transition trait...

while i didnt mention some were pre transition, about 70% of those are featured while in denial, and disapear once you actually transition sucessfully.
R >:D

Quote from: Rachael on April 16, 2008, 01:52:42 AM
Works for indenial transpeople, fairly well id say, but since i transitioned ive lost most of those things;

Okay ... I think we all agree on that ... so why did we fight about it for, like 10 pages? Keep in mind, by definition, if you are seeing a psychiatrist for GID, you are either pre-transition or in transition.

~Simone.

:P

Im not seeing any shrink.... yet, (love you nhs)
so what am i? in denial? pre transition? :P

Yep, basically, the list works for maybe confirming if a person is pre, but during or after, id say most of those items disapear.
R >:D

QuoteI read the handout to mean that these are traits that a TS MAY present with prior to
transition.

LOL... that was what I posted way back on page 2  :)

Amanda

Quote from: Rachael on April 16, 2008, 07:42:34 AM
:P

Im not seeing any shrink.... yet, (love you nhs)
so what am i? in denial? pre transition? :P

Yep, basically, the list works for maybe confirming if a person is pre, but during or after, id say most of those items disapear.
R >:D

Agreed. And one has to keep in mind that you don't need a therapist to get therapy. It is possible to work through your own problems as well. I do think though, that you are more likely, as a TS, to start out with that little list of issues than a member of the general population.

~Simone

And not all are things a person would present with. infact, most arnt... and even if someone had EVERY THING on that list, doesnt mean that they are a GID sufferer....
R >:D

QuoteAnd not all are things a person would present with. infact, most arnt...

I think the majority of responses here show that "this sample" show the list to be fairly
accurate. But it may be that the majority of people that responded it fits and so
they felt compelled to respond.

And I agree 100%, having everything on the list does not mean anything and having
nothing on the list does not mean anything. But for a lot of us it explains some things.

Amanda

how many who are TS responded??
how many are transitioned, how many are pre transition?
we dont have that data, all we know is it fit SOME people....


all those it fit may be bloody plumbers for all the data we have....
R >:D

Quoteall we know is it fit SOME people....

I agree and it does not fit you at all :)

Amanda

oh noes, im not ts! *sobs*

you felt like restating two things i said already?
R >:D

Quoteoh noes, im not ts! *sobs*

you felt like restating two things i said already?

I'm so sorry you feel that way sweetie... and yes I did thanks :)

Amanda

Quote from: Rachael on April 16, 2008, 09:55:29 AM

all those it fit may be bloody plumbers for all the data we have....
R >:D

So... you are asserting that plumbers are more or less likely to be TS? :P

Quote
Yep, basically, the list works for maybe confirming if a person is pre, but during or after, id say most of those items disapear.
R >:D

I should certainly hope so! Isn't that in large part the whole point?

However, as generally accurate as it is in describing my life while living in denial, I'd say it's pretty unhelpful: isn't the whole "not happy with assigned sex/gender" just a bit more reliable a measure? What really is the point of this list, other than as a parlor game? It's a little like those obnoxious "you know you're from Winnemucca if ..." lists that get distributed on the web, that always seem to have some clever comment about theose nutty Nevada drivers who don't know how to operate turn signals.

Many of the symptoms that were posted on this list, and how it applied to some and not others only tells how every one of us will have a different perception from the exact same observation or the derived by others from the same set of ideas, in this case, similarities determined from certain gender dysphoric  behaviour. This list is a good set of guidelines of what might be expected by the transperson during various times and phases of transition but will never be the same for everyone at any given time. 

This may result in a somewhat large variance from one person to another and also to estimate how much a particular individual has progressed according to this chart during their given transitional period of time. Such is the variance of human nature and its personal characteristics.  I have been 8 years full time and have undergone SRS four years ago and I can still identify with some of the behaviours and perceptions on the list.

Cindy

Quote from: soldierjane on April 16, 2008, 11:33:52 AM

Quote from: Rachael on April 16, 2008, 09:55:29 AM

all those it fit may be bloody plumbers for all the data we have....
R >:D

So... you are asserting that plumbers are more or less likely to be TS? :P

hypothetical.... please accept a metaphor a such.
R >:D

are they pre or post transition?

they have a pipe fixation... they love screwing stuff.... id think they were post op f2m ;)


My point is, that yes these things happen to form a grouping. Yes we saw it here. Does that mean that  the list fits transsexuals because some agree?

well no, we havent found out WHAT the list groups?

IS it transsexualism?

is it undiagnosed gid?


im fairly positive it the latter... with some extentsion into transitioned transpeople when certain othe factors are met, ie, the person is clearly unhappy with thier life...
R >:D

Marci Bowers is a ts plumber ... uh, of sorts.

(sorry, couldn't resist. Where's a "duck and cover" icon when you need it?)



I agree they form a "group" of sorts, but is it meaningful? Even if it's highly correlated with non-diagnosed transsexual people, what is the intended use?

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 16, 2008, 08:03:04 PM
Mario and Luigi are TS

you heard it here first

http://asame2.web.infoseek.co.jp/mariof5.html heehehe

Quote from: Alex on April 17, 2008, 07:02:35 AM

Quote from: redfish the metaphysician on April 16, 2008, 08:03:04 PM
Mario and Luigi are TS

you heard it here first

http://asame2.web.infoseek.co.jp/mariof5.html heehehe

*gigglesnort* !!! Damn! Sprayed a mouthful of water all over my keyboard. Grrrrrrr!!!!

;)  ;D  :P

~Simone.

oh dear....


is nothing sacred from trapification?
R >:D

Sometimes I think I'm trans, but reading that list only about half of those apply to me. For instance, I'm good with maths and can't read people at all. Maybe that's because I have some additional conditions...I almost certainly have Asperger's and OCD, and maybe others. I think I'm actually an androgyne but I tend to waffle between that and fully wanting to be a girl. I'm confused...

QuoteSometimes I think I'm trans, but reading that list only about half of those apply to me. For instance, I'm good with maths and can't read people at all. Maybe that's because I have some additional conditions...I almost certainly have Asperger's and OCD, and maybe others. I think I'm actually an androgyne but I tend to waffle between that and fully wanting to be a girl. I'm confused...

You might be trans if you have one of those or none of those... if you think you are. It's what's in you mind that counts... the
list is a list of common traits... not traits you need to have to be trans. Follow your heart.

And people with Asperger's have a lot of the same traits... expect one... they don't think of themselves as girls. :)

Amanda

If you dont have any... you might still be trans... its not remotely definitive....

Dear me. this is what i feared... people seeing this as definitive and categorical and some test *sigh*
R >:D

seems that all but one or two describe me, and when I think that it has been like this all my life, it seems like I should have done something long ago. Maybe I wouldn't be at this point in my life and be so dissatisfied with my life..

Vaguely speaking, and on the average, I bet that it fits most people, regardless of TS. 

Yes We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
Yes We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
Yes We are very insecure
Yes We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
Yes We exhibit extreme shyness at times
Yes We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Yes We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
No  We often have inattention to health issues
Yes We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
No  We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
Yes We often have well above average intelligence
Yes We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
Yes We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
Yes We are very imaginative daydreamers
Yes We display self destructive behavior
Yes We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
Yes We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Yes We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
Yes We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
No  We gave deep seated hatred of authority
Yes We have on and off battles with clinical depression
Yes We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
Yes We are able to easily read peoples emotions
Yes We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Yes We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts

Hmmm...  Three out of twenty-five.  I think I am transsexual...

Though now that I've been full time for just over a year, and just recently completed my SRS, many of these symptoms, like suicide and depression, have disappeared.

So... Now that I've transitioned...

No  We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
No  We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
No  We are very insecure
No  We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
No  We exhibit extreme shyness at times
No  We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
No  We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
No  We often have inattention to health issues
Yes We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
No  We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
Yes We often have well above average intelligence
Yes We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
Yes We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
Yes We are very imaginative daydreamers
No  We display self destructive behavior
Yes We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
Yes We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Yes We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
Yes We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
No  We gave deep seated hatred of authority
No  We have on and off battles with clinical depression
Yes We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
Yes We are able to easily read peoples emotions
Yes We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
No  We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts

Hmmm... Thirteen out of twenty-five.

I'm not a transsexual after all!

I've recently heard a couple things that I found interesting.  I'm sure you may have heard them too.  I think one of the quotes was from "Transamerica" which I have not seen.

"Transsexuality is one of the few mental diseases that can be cured by surgery."  I do feel cured.
"SRS has one of the highest success rates of any medical procedure."  Just about every transsexual I've ever heard about are happy with their decision to have the procedure.  Some may not be completely satisfied with the cosmetic or functional characteristics of the procedure, but do not regret having made the decision to go forward.

-Sandy (nope, I'm just an ordinary gal!)

QuoteHmmm... Thirteen out of twenty-five.

I'm not a transsexual after all!

That's because you are a women now :)

Which makes sense... this was a list of traits that a transsexual might present with prior to
transition.

Amanda

I hope it's alright to post something on a topic so old I randomly came across it on one of my various searches. I know this is just a simple list and not something to be viewed as something to define you without a doubt as being trans but I still found this very interesting nonetheless. This list just so accurately describes me to a t and I always thought I was such a unique person lol. It really calmed me in a way though to just read about so many people who were just like me when I always felt so alone in being who I was. I don't want to go rambling on but I thought I might just bump it for maybe some newbies like me to see and perhaps also bring some understanding or relief.

Welcome to Susan's, hugs.

Reading, writing and math were all difficult for me. I had to really study and apply myself. What helped me in math was to visualize what was happening, then I was able to excel. Reading and writing took practice but I do very well with each now. The rest of the survey was made for me. Now that I am transitioning things are shifting a bit. 

Quote from: Eyie on August 03, 2014, 10:23:07 AM
I hope it's alright to post something on a topic so old I randomly came across it on one of my various searches. I know this is just a simple list and not something to be viewed as something to define you without a doubt as being trans but I still found this very interesting nonetheless. This list just so accurately describes me to a t and I always thought I was such a unique person lol. It really calmed me in a way though to just read about so many people who were just like me when I always felt so alone in being who I was. I don't want to go rambling on but I thought I might just bump it for maybe some newbies like me to see and perhaps also bring some understanding or relief.

Thank you for doing this, otherwise I might never have found it!! :)
I have about 20 of these traits. Some of these are traits that my family has always wondered where they stemmed from since neither of my parents have them so that's interesting!! :) xxx

Cynthia what you said about things shifting a bit after transition was one of the things that really inspired and calmed me reading this post. A few others had mentioned similar outcomes and it gives me hope for not feeling so anxious and depressed all the time.

Based on the list in the original post I would say I line up with upto 96% of the list.

Awww, tnx for bringing this up -quite an old but still fun read :). Ok, I would have picked any fight easily, but the rest was pretty much true... at least pre-HRT.

I assume this is for life before getting on with it and doing stuff about things, so I'm thinking back before the time I had ever realized I was trans.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
Yes. I was almost machine-like at times. I'm still quite reserved about showing my emotions, because it's a hard behavioural thing to break, but I'm much more open now than I used to be.

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
It depended on the person. If I trusted someone, I was all game. If not, no way. These days I'm extremely, maybe even a bit too, open with everyone, even strangers.

We are very insecure
Oh yes. Still am.

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
I used to only have one close friend at a time. This has changed drastically.

We exhibit extreme shyness at times
Quite.

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
I'm glad there's very little to no photos of me from my teen years, I was a mess in every sense of the word.

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
Ah. Yes. These days I don't mind, even though I'm very early in.

We often have inattention to health issues
Well, I was suicidal for a number of years. That has the tendency to stop worrying about little health worries. Fortunately I didn't do any major harm while ignoring everything and am basically healthy.

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
Extreme. Extreme! EXTREME!!

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
Nah, I've never done that. Unless the suicide attempts count. I don't think they do, though.

We often have well above average intelligence
I don't speculate about my traits. It's impossible to tell.

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
Indeed. Mostly through hobbies, though. My jobs haven't been that intense.

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
I think I'm about average on this. I don't usually care, but in the heat of the moment I can get carried away. But not to any kind of noticeable level.

We are very imaginative daydreamers
I can't hear you in my castle made up of clouds floating in the infinite gases of Jupiter.

We display self destructive behavior
Besides being suicidal, I did abuse my body with extreme excess sugar intake as I didn't really get into drinking or smoking.

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
I used to be somewhat homophobic while I was completely at a loss as to what or who I was during my teen years. Not proud of it, but it passed once I became comfortable with myself.

We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Surely that's just being a human being? (No political arguments, please.)

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
It depends. On one hand yes, but on the other hand I like to perform and I do talk about myself and my transition openly. But on some other issues I'm extremely private. So it's hard to tell what would count as "usual" privacy.

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
I've never been in a fight, so I guess that's true.

We gave deep seated hatred of authority
Nope, not at all.

We have on and off battles with clinical depression
I've been on psych meds for 15, 16 years. But I've been able to cut most of them since starting HRT.

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
I'm a sound engineer and a radio host, so I guess it doesn't really count when I say yes. I've been trained for it.

We are able to easily read peoples emotions
Before HRT, no. Quite the opposite. After, seems so.

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
True on the bit about reading and writing. But not so true on the bit with mathematics. I'm painfully average in it.

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
Countless thoughts, dozens of plans and three (pathetic) attempts. Hooray!


Well, I didn't score 100%, so I guess I can't be trans after all. I'm expecting the police to come and take my hormones very soon. Because that's how psychology works!

But in all seriousness, seems like a pretty representative set of common themes.

Quote from: annajasmine on March 24, 2008, 04:12:02 PM
Wow, I'm a lot of these except for about three or four of them.


Anna

Same here.

Not suicidal ever
No tendancies toward dangerous activity or jobs.

I have about eight of them.  I think the main reason I'm not suicidal is because I don't want to die in a woman's body, which is kind of messed up :/

I have about 95% of them. Every time I see something like this it hammers home the fact that I need to get to therapy. I've never been suicidal in the sense of taking my own life, I couldn't do that. But I enlisted in the military so I could get killed as I believed that would be better than dealing with being transgendered and I could go out with some honor. But despite my best efforts, here I am so I think I'm being forced to deal with this lol:o

I have about 17. I like motorcycles, small airplanes and long walks... off of short piers.

I must of missed the one that said "we" are human....basically this list is saying most trans are introverted. Which isn't the norm also.

I'm sorry but whatever therapist or whoever came up with this list is a quack.

Many people, young, old, black, white, female, male, adolescent, Asian, gay, straight, poor, rich......could answer yes to many of these traits!

The only trait 100% noticeable in transgendered people...or "we" is that we all know we never felt like the gender we were born. Period!!

Quote from: Just Shelly on August 03, 2014, 11:04:05 PM

The only trait 100% noticeable in transgendered people...or "we" is that we all know we never felt like the gender we were born. Period!!

Actually, I'm not sure that's true of an awful lot of transsexuals, particularly late or non-transitioners. Speaking for myself, a lot of the characteristics on the list are spot-on, but equally, I've never doubted that I have strong male personality/behaviour traits, as well as female/trans ones, and I have often 'felt like a man'. To be precise I feel like someone who was born, raised and socialised male, and who can play the male role to the satisfaction of those around him - and who, for example, absolutely feels like a father to his children ... but who, at the same time, feels profoundly ill-at-ease with that male image and dreamed of becoming a woman, freed from a man's body ...

Quote from: Just Mandy on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
We are very insecure
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
We have a hatred of our appearance
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
We often have inattention to health issues(I am very much in tune with my health, pre and post HRT)
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities(I avoided those jobs to preserve my body)
We often have well above average intelligence(no room for humility here? :P )
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
We are very imaginative daydreamers
We display self destructive behavior
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
We have deep seated hatred of authority(Authority giveth, and authority taketh away)
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics(I don't have difficulty with math)
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts

^^^me

Things have waned since starting HRT, though. I feel different about pictures, and I'm nowhere NEAR as competitive as I used to be.

Quote from: Just Shelly on August 03, 2014, 11:04:05 PMThe only trait 100% noticeable in transgendered people...or "we" is that we all know we never felt like the gender we were born. Period!!

This isn't true for me. I didn't realize it until I was 20.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
For me, to an extant. I never fully shut down but I kept my feminine side well hidden (or so I thought based on me coming out)
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
Never had this problem, but I'm picky with those I form a close friendship with
We are very insecure
Yes
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
No, and yes. I have a few close friends, but I'm still a hermit.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
Yes
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Yes
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
Meh, not so much, I have never minded friends and family capturing a moment of fun for the ages
We often have inattention to health issues
Depending on the issues, yes
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
No, I've always been quite open about my sexuality. Coming out as bi was easier than coming out as transgender
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
Very much yes
We often have well above average intelligence
Not sure how I feel about this one, as one of my best friends said I'm "The smartest dumbass I know. You're so incredibly intelligent and you make the worst decisions"
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
I blame this one on my ADD, I'm on the over-focus end of that spectrum
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
Yes
We are very imaginative daydreamers
OMG 100% yes. I can daydream while having a full conversation with a person while enjoying said conversation
We display self destructive behavior
Yes
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
For me yes, but as a blanket statement no. I have met a few in transition who were very racist
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Yes, but I still fully support my troops and the military. Military family and joined the military myself.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
Yes
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
I do always try to avoid physicality if it's not of a good sort
We gave deep seated hatred of authority
Yes and no. I still show respect for my superiors and alway cooperate with any public service officials, even when I feel upset
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
I haven't been diagnosed as clinically depressed, but I do deal with it at times
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
Yes
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
Depends on the person
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Hmmmm, I struggle with some math but I'm good at computers. Math is a huge part of me getting my diploma. I'd say this is 50/50
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
No. It has crossed my mind a couple times, especially when boot camp got a bit too much for me mentally, but I've always had a unique mindset on suicide in that I only support it in certain situations. I personally break down, but will NEVER give up.

And every person is unique. This is as bad as an online personality test. It means nothing, even non TS people could say yes to everything on this list and still feel quite comfortable with their gender. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but this list is bs.

I knew most of that, but oh god, even me sucking at math.

Okay, the ones about body modesty and self-destructive behavior and not caring about your health or hating pictures/videos I can understand. Those come along with body dysphoria and the resulting low self-esteem. But one of these things is not like the other:

QuoteWe are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics

Gender cliches, gender cliches, gender cliches.

The bottom one especially annoys me. Because it's on EVERY single gender identity test. What the hell is this? They just had a post about how we tend to have above-average intelligence, and immerse ourselves in vocational-technical occupations/hobbies, and yet somehow we're supposed to not be good at math? I call bulls*** on this. The last time I checked, being able to do algebra and calculus had nothing to do with whether you should have a penis or not. Or maybe the girls in my math club didn't get that memo that they're supposed to be FtMs according to online gender tests.

This is why I hate tests like this. There's always gender cliches involved. This is why radical feminists hate us, girls... we're basically reinforcing cultural gender norms just to prove to ourselves that we're really girls.

You don't need it. If you're someone who genuinely doesn't know if they're trans or not, maybe, but the vast majority of us already know that we're trans (even if we say we don't, or don't recognize those thoughts as being trans thoughts,) and are just using these tests to convince ourselves further. And our culture does this too. Women will over-report their abilities to read people's emotions, and underplay their abilities in math and science, just because culture values these things in femininity. Just like men will over-report their abilities in strength and technical skills, but under-report their abilities to discern emotions. And in both cases, the test isn't actually telling them anything. They're just trying to reinforce their maleness/femaleness.

Here's a better test:
(lists "female" interests)
(lists "male" interests)
Q: Are you hoping that you'll score with more female-typical results, or are you hoping you'll score with more male-typical results?
A: If you are hoping to score more female-typical results, your gender identity is probably female. If you're hoping to score more male-typical results, your gender identity is probably male. (Or, if you are hoping to score with transgender-typical results, you're probably trans.)

They've done studies which showed that the reason why women score higher than men on emotion-guessing tests is because the test is prefaced as a "gender test." So women know that they're supposed to score better, and therefore they focus more because they want a higher score. On tests where these same questions were not prefaced as being "gender tests," women and men scored exactly the same. Same with math. There is SEVERE cultural bias against girls in math, because of tests exactly like this, where we're constantly telling girls that being good in math and science is somehow unfeminine.

Just some feminist theory to chew on.

I saw this thing on tumblr and thought of this thread- http://transsexual.org/cogiati/index.php?lang=en
It makes me so glad that when I talk to my therapist they understand "I hate having a woman's body, I am not a woman this feels gross," and don't ask stupid questions about my clothing preferences or whatever.

hhhm most of these traits apply to me, maybe all actually...

and Im especially bad at math , like I dont think anyone here is worse in math than me... :/ awkward but its the truth

Wow... That's me to a tee. It's like a fortune cookie!
Now let's see if we can make it more fun... "You are bad at math, in bed."
Hmmm, not as funny as I thought it would be...

Quote from: FalseHybridPrincess on August 04, 2014, 02:27:42 PM
hhhm most of these traits apply to me, maybe all actually...

and Im especially bad at math , like I dont think anyone here is worse in math than me... :/ awkward but its the truth

I think I can rival you in being bad at math. XD

I hate math!!!!

I have had pretty much everything in the list except for the suicidal thoughts.

Quote from: Just Mandy on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
We often have well above average intelligence

Check and check.  :)

Regarding the math thing, Carrie is exactly right.  Little girls are steered away from technical or math-related subjects.  Something like 80% of elementary age girls report enjoying math and science, but only 30% of college age women say the same.

Quote from: Carrie Liz on August 04, 2014, 12:21:29 PM
Okay, the ones about body modesty and self-destructive behavior and not caring about your health or hating pictures/videos I can understand. Those come along with body dysphoria and the resulting low self-esteem. But one of these things is not like the other:

Gender cliches, gender cliches, gender cliches.

The bottom one especially annoys me. Because it's on EVERY single gender identity test. What the hell is this? They just had a post about how we tend to have above-average intelligence, and immerse ourselves in vocational-technical occupations/hobbies, and yet somehow we're supposed to not be good at math? I call bulls*** on this. The last time I checked, being able to do algebra and calculus had nothing to do with whether you should have a penis or not. Or maybe the girls in my math club didn't get that memo that they're supposed to be FtMs according to online gender tests.

This is why I hate tests like this. There's always gender cliches involved. This is why radical feminists hate us, girls... we're basically reinforcing cultural gender norms just to prove to ourselves that we're really girls.

You don't need it. If you're someone who genuinely doesn't know if they're trans or not, maybe, but the vast majority of us already know that we're trans (even if we say we don't, or don't recognize those thoughts as being trans thoughts,) and are just using these tests to convince ourselves further. And our culture does this too. Women will over-report their abilities to read people's emotions, and underplay their abilities in math and science, just because culture values these things in femininity. Just like men will over-report their abilities in strength and technical skills, but under-report their abilities to discern emotions. And in both cases, the test isn't actually telling them anything. They're just trying to reinforce their maleness/femaleness.

Here's a better test:
(lists "female" interests)
(lists "male" interests)
Q: Are you hoping that you'll score with more female-typical results, or are you hoping you'll score with more male-typical results?
A: If you are hoping to score more female-typical results, your gender identity is probably female. If you're hoping to score more male-typical results, your gender identity is probably male. (Or, if you are hoping to score with transgender-typical results, you're probably trans.)

They've done studies which showed that the reason why women score higher than men on emotion-guessing tests is because the test is prefaced as a "gender test." So women know that they're supposed to score better, and therefore they focus more because they want a higher score. On tests where these same questions were not prefaced as being "gender tests," women and men scored exactly the same. Same with math. There is SEVERE cultural bias against girls in math, because of tests exactly like this, where we're constantly telling girls that being good in math and science is somehow unfeminine.

Just some feminist theory to chew on.

OMG. You are THE BEST. My thoughts exactly. And yes, I actually am quite cliché and "check" many of the traits in the list, but I don't think it makes me more trans than someone who, say, excels in Math and sports. Gender identity is a total different concept from gender expression or gender roles. And most theories who claim essential differences between men and women are trying to reinforce gender roles and usually have an Agenda. There are indeed brain differences between men and women simply because of the different hormones exposed in puberty, but they are totally totally overrepresented and played by our culture. It all starts with toys. It's amazing how conditioned each sex right after their BITRH, different toys, different treatment, it's no wonder that when grown up, men and women already know how to "behave" according to gender, and APPEAR drastically different from each other, when in fact, many of the differences are statiscally unsignificant.

Hmm... I was always really good at math and spatial relations.  I also solved Rubik's cube at 12.  My sister was even better at these kinds of things and is about to receive a PhD in Physics.  Some of the other things did not apply to me either, but some did very much.  I wonder how many of these traits apply to cispeople as well for comparison.

I am a firm believer that if you have met one transsexual, you have met one transsexual.  We are snowflakes, some of us flakier than others.  :P

A PhD in Physics?  That's impressive.  That means she came up with a concept that no one has ever thought of before, and she can prove it to people who don't like to have their stuff moved around.  Good for her! 

Quote from: Jill F on August 06, 2014, 04:39:28 AM
Hmm... I was always really good at math and spatial relations.  I also solved Rubik's cube at 12.  My sister was even better at these kinds of things and is about to receive a PhD in Physics.  Some of the other things did not apply to me either, but some did very much.  I wonder how many of these traits apply to cispeople as well for comparison.

I am a firm believer that if you have met one transsexual, you have met one transsexual.  We are snowflakes, some of us flakier than others.  :P

The Rubik's Cube thing reminds me of a story from my parents. Apparently I scared them into thinking they had a certified genius on their hands when I brought it out to them solved in 5 minutes around the age of 8. Apparently I've always been very creative in problem solving, because they almost didn't notice that the stickers looked a little off. I peeled off all the stickers and put them where they should go. Out of the box problem solving. Hehe.

That list explains my entire life... I have no doubts about myself now.  :laugh:

I'm agreeing with Carrie Liz here. Whilst many of the items on that list are applicable there are some that are just stereotypical and utter BS.

As far as the math one, I actually was very good at math back in school. In 5th grade I scored in the top 1% of the nation for my level. In 11th and 12th grade I took AP Calculus, passed both the AB and BC advanced placement exams, and was the teacher's assistant to boot. And for the record, the smartest kids in those calculus classes were girls.

Anyway... I've forgotten most of the math I learned back then, but pick it up quickly enough when needed.

Quote from: Alaia on August 06, 2014, 07:12:24 PM
I'm agreeing with Carrie Liz here. Whilst many of the items on that list are applicable there are some that are just stereotypical and utter BS.

As far as the math one, I actually was very good at math back in school. In 5th grade I scored in the top 1% of the nation for my level. In 11th and 12th grade I took AP Calculus, passed both the AB and BC advanced placement exams, and was the teacher's assistant to boot. And for the record, the smartest kids in those calculus classes were girls.

Anyway... I've forgotten most of the math I learned back then, but pick it up quickly enough when needed.

I have to agree, one of my friends not only loves math but she is absolutely amazing at it and has helped me when I get stumped. Note, I'm going to college for computer science and she relies on me for everything computer or tech related. Meanwhile she went for Psychology and is only a few classes from being a Mathematician. We continue to argue who is more intelligent between the two of us. I say her because if she wanted she could have a few degrees already based on all the classes she's taken. She says me because I just pick everything up so quick and easily.

I just don't have the focus and it constantly affects my grades.

The list describe me pretty well.

I did very well in math in college; however, I had to work my butt off (reason I have no butt).
I had:
Pre-calc
calc I
calc II
calc III
Differential equations.

I went to a state school. I had to take pre-calc, reading and writing in order to matriculate. I was really behind entering college. I needed 136 credits to graduate, all but 20 from science. Many of my classes were 1 and 3 credits. Only the 5 non-science courses were 4 credits (lol).

I love science and reading. I am reading, "what the Dog Saw" and I am working on implementing the coolest technology in our plants that will cut our electric consumption 32% (and the pay me too). Oh, I work with a lot of female licensed engineers and they are brilliant.

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on August 06, 2014, 07:23:38 PM
The list describe me pretty well.

I did very well in math in college; however, I had to work my butt off (reason I have no butt).
I had:
Pre-calc
calc I
calc II
cals III
Differential equations.

I went to a state school. I had to take pre-calc, reading and writing in order to matriculate. I was really behind entering college. I needed 136 credits to graduate, all but 20 from science. Many of my classes were 1 and 3 credits. Only the 5 non-science courses were 4 credits (lol).

I love science and reading. I am reading, "what the Dog Saw" and I am working on implementing the coolest technology in our plants that will cut our electric consumption 32% (and the pay me too). Oh, I work with a lot of female licensed engineers and they are brilliant.

The extensive list of math classes I need is holding me back from my degree.

Meanwhile my friend in IT calls me sometimes because I modified my XP install, made it able to dualboot with Linux, and hacked a driver file to get updated graphics on a laptop Sony stopped supporting. So of course when I downloaded the official installation files from Nvidia it said my video card was unsupported. Did some research, found out my video card was more than capable of the update, said "Eff that" and modified the driver files to add my card. Updated just fine and had no problems whatsoever.

Note, I still get stumped sometimes and look for help myself. I'm no Mr. Wizard. But sometimes I feel like it when he calls me for help when he runs a server for a pretty large sized independent company.

For the most part the list does fit me however as stated a few times some things are definitely not really gender related (math/writing)  To be honest and I am doing some guessing from my perspective would wonder how many of us are introverted or at least about some things.  For me I am but reason I say that if we tend to be above average intelligence chance are introverted as a child therefor spent more time thinking and studying and is that really gender specific answer is no.  Maybe there are tendencies but just that tendencies that lead to one gender or the other or the somewhere in between.  All that being said great list and does paint somewhat of a picture of who we are yet really a partial picture.  We are all complicated critters and after all isn't part of being human is to be unique which is so broad but true.  Let this list be a guide yet with understanding its not the written in stone idea either. We are to complex and this issue is way too complex to really ever nail it down to o this person does this must be ..... gender.

Quote from: Jen72 on August 06, 2014, 08:07:46 PM
For the most part the list does fit me however as stated a few times some things are definitely not really gender related (math/writing)  To be honest and I am doing some guessing from my perspective would wonder how many of us are introverted or at least about some things.  For me I am but reason I say that if we tend to be above average intelligence chance are introverted as a child therefor spent more time thinking and studying and is that really gender specific answer is no.  Maybe there are tendencies but just that tendencies that lead to one gender or the other or the somewhere in between.  All that being said great list and does paint somewhat of a picture of who we are yet really a partial picture.  We are all complicated critters and after all isn't part of being human is to be unique which is so broad but true.  Let this list be a guide yet with understanding its not the written in stone idea either. We are to complex and this issue is way too complex to really ever nail it down to o this person does this must be ..... gender.

Well said. I myself am an introvert, not sure why I'd be more or less intelligent aside from spending more time reading or enjoying my hobbies. I've met some very intelligent extroverts in my time, who bless their hearts feel the need to get me out of the house. They just don't get that introvert isn't the same as anti-social or that I just need the right people to suddenly be an extrovert. The same may not be true of the rest of the ladies and guys on this board. I just know I get anxiety attacks in large crowds, I do enjoy social interactions, but only when I feel I can handle them and typically in small doses. "But you had fun when we took you to the club" is the frequent thing I hear, and yes for a time I was having fun, but then my social anxiety kicked in due to being overwhelmed by so many people and conflicting energies. At which point I'd let someone in the group I was with know that I was going to go wait in the car and that they should all enjoy themselves. No guilt trips, just letting them know where I was and that there was no rush (due to the first night when I disappeared without telling anyone).

But as you said, we are all unique in our likes, dislikes, social interactions, friends, everything. No person is the same, nor should they be treated as such.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
That was the case for me up until recently.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
In my case, I hid a lot of my deepest feelings from myself too.
We are very insecure
Yes, though transitioning has helped that immensely!
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
That's true actually.  I sort of drifted to whatever cliques wouldn't run me off when I was younger and seldom made close friends.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
Not so much.  I kind of hid myself behind a veneer of aggressive masculinity.
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Pre-transition, yeah, I tended to let myself go.  Around the time I was diagnosed with GD I got a new driver's license and I look like hell in the photo.
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
Not so much.
We often have inattention to health issues
Not so much.
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
I do now.  Back when I was trying to wing it as a gay man I was kind of an exhibitionist though after I came out trans I began pulling all the pics I could find in disgust.
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
As a gay man, I used to drive fast, drink hard, and play with guns out in the desert with psychotic criminal types.  Does that count?
We often have well above average intelligence
High verbal IQ, anyhow...
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
I'm a novelist and history student.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
Not sure if this applies to me.
We are very imaginative daydreamers
Yes.
We display self destructive behavior
Before I quit drinking, I needed a pint of Everclear to feel "drunk enough."  I think that counts.
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
I have had to recover from a degree of racism but that has more to do with growing up in a small town in SC.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Completely and consistently in my case.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
YES.  And what really sucked growing up was having a mother who thought privacy meant OMG SOMETHING TO HIDE!
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
Nowadays, yes.  But that butch veneer I used to hide behind got me into a lot of fights growing up.
We have deep seated hatred of authority
YES YES YES.  110%.
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
Growing up, it was more "on" than "off."
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
Not sure what this means exactly.  Does it mean location or identification?
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
More so now than I used to be.
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
My grades in anything writing-related are always "A"s but the last math course I had to take I passed with a low "C" or a high "D."
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
Trying to overcome that and I've had some success, but I've been fighting suicidal thoughts all my life.

Quote from: Just Mandy on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
I will do this just for fun.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
Yep
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
Yep, somewhat better now than before though
We are very insecure
Yes
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
Yes
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
All the time
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Totally. Can't stand seeing myself in pictures especially
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
Read above lol. I have an extreme hatred of myself in videos, especially if I am caught speaking it it, I have to walk away, turn it off
We often have inattention to health issues
Yes
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
Yes
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
No I am the opposite, really cautions, afraid of getting hurt
We often have well above average intelligence
I think I have that
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
Nope, not atm at least. Am in school to become a nurse, that count in the future?
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
I am competitive about some things and some things I could care less about
We are very imaginative daydreamers
IDK, maybe?
We display self destructive behavior
Smoke way too much, drank all the time after I turned 21 but slowed down a ton since then, that's about it I think, idk if that is a yes or no tho lol
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
I think I am tolerant of others, but am a bit racist and homophobic (am going to hell x.x)
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Am somewhat anti-war, not really anti death penalty
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
yes
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
never been in a fight, kinda of seems pointless to me, doesn't really solve anything, wouldn't end there for me, don't wanna be hurt physically or get my ass kicked either cuz I am pretty skinny and physically weak
We gave deep seated hatred of authority
Hate being told what to do so always arguing and complaining to bosses, hate cops, hate being told what to do (that count lol :) )
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
Yes
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
idk, maybe?
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
I think I can do ok at this
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
I don't mind reading and writing, I have done ok usually in math when I had to but I think it is mostly pointless. Math is the devil
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
I had one instant a few months ago where I thought about it and thought how I might do it, might I might say to others, but that was it, never "tried"

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
Prior to starting low dose HRT, I was in a complete state of nihilism. I had lost the ability to feel anything, because it was the only way I could cope.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
Yes.
We are very insecure
Yes. Sometimes, to the point of neuroticism.
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
Yes. Although now I hate being alone more than anything.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
Yes. For my entire life, I was always known for being very shy around people.
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Maybe some day I will post some of my pre-transition pictures, but right now it's still too soon for me to be able to laugh about it...
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
From the time I graduated high school until pretty recently, there are almost no pictures that were taken of me without my objection.
We often have inattention to health issues
I totally let myself go health wise for most of my life, and I only started to turn things around when I discovered I was prediabetic at the age of 23.
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
I haven't let anyone see me without a shirt on since I was 12. As a rule, I always wore the least revealing clothes possible.
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
Not really. Not that I ever actually had a job...
We often have well above average intelligence
My IQ has been measured somewhere between 150 and 160. I was always a paradox to people in that I had the ability to do basically anything I wanted to, but lacked the motivation to do anything at all.
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
I took up computer programming because it was a technical thing I could immerse myself in without having to think about anything else, or interact with other people in any way.
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
I used to play fighting games competitively, and made it to a few national tournaments.
We are very imaginative daydreamers
Yes, though not as much as I got older.
We display self destructive behavior
Not really. I never felt like I deserved to suffer any more than I already was...
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
Yes.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Yes.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives
I was always extremely private about things, and I never liked to even talk about myself at all. Writing assignments where I had to write about my personal life used to drive me nuts...
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
Yes, though I did get into a fight once. It was with a boy from an older class that was picking on me. I usually had a very passive attitude about being picked on, and just let people say what they wanted to say until they got bored and left me alone. But for some reason, on this occasion, I just lost it. I grabbed him and punched him several times, until he broke free and ran away. I tried to apologize to him the next day and he just ran away from me again before I could finish. I felt so bad about the whole thing I vowed that I'd never do anything like that again.
We have deep seated hatred of authority
In fact, my parents were convinced I had some sort of oppositional disorder because I seemed to question every form of authority placed over me for no apparent reason.
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
Yes.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
I don't really know what this is supposed to mean either...
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
Not always, but I think I was better at it than most boys I knew were.
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Actually, I really struggled with learning how to read, and I always preferred math class to language arts.
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
Sometimes, but never to the point where I was actually serious about attempting something. Not yet anyway...

My results are mostly the opposite of the questions. So this list is pure speculation! everyone is different and individual no matter what gender they are.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
No, I never shut down my emotions

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
No, I always discuss my feelings

We are very insecure
Sometimes

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
No, I have a lot of friends and I prefer to be with people

We exhibit extreme shyness at times
No, I am very in your face

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Yes, often

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
No, I don't avoid them

We often have inattention to health issues
No

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
I don't understand the question?

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
Never, I avoid them

We often have well above average intelligence
I won't disagree

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration
and highly technical vocations.
No

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
No

We are very imaginative daydreamers
No

We display self destructive behavior
No

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
Yes

We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Yes

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
No

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
Yes

We gave deep seated hatred of authority
Sometimes

We have on and off battles with clinical depression
I have been depressed

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
Yes

We are able to easily read peoples emotions
Yes

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Absolutely, Yes

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
Yes

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE A LIST THREAD!?

Let me just warm up my bullet points.

• boop!
• beep!
• boop!

Excellent. Let's get started!

• We primarily cope with our condition by shutting down all emotions: Once upon a time maybe...now I feel the opposite, I have ALL THE EMOTIONS ALL THE TIME!" ^^ So NOPE


• We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others:Pre transition I WAS very quiet re deeper thoughts and emotions, my wife was really the only person I properly spoke to...so TICK


• We are very insecure: TICK...moving on


• We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone: Spending time alone = depression for me, only rarely do I take the notion to "hermit mode" and that's normally due to over exertion, or a need to take care of "life maintenance" undistributed. Capital "NOPE"
• We exhibit extreme shyness at times: Don't most people  Admittedly I am rarely shy. Even around new people I am pretty extroverted >.> NOPE
• We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance: TICK...carry on
• We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves: Okay yes...now you are getting somewhere TICK
• We often have inattention to health issues: I...yeah I guess...but I mean COME ON! NOBODY LIKES THE DOCTOR'S RIGHT!? >.> ...TICK
• We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity: Well...now you are just...yeah fine TICK!
• We often take on dangerous jobs or activities: HAH! I'm a digital artist and nerd...the greatest danger in my life is the ever present threat that I will one day forget how to work my legs. NOPE
• We often have well above average intelligence: ...Sure? I'll tick this one for the Ego boost if nothing else. TICK
• We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations: See: "Digital Artist"...TICK
• We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground: Falling into the latter half of that statement...but TICK
• We are very imaginative daydreamers: Sorry what? I was thinking about the end of the world again...TICK
• We display self destructive behaviour: ...TICK
• We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc: Proud TICK
• We are anti-war and anti death penalty: Not sure how political views are supposed to be altered by genetics but sure TICK
• We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives: I almost obsessively over publicise my every stupid thought and action on the internet for all to see...NOPE
• We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation: Once upon a time I fought...a lot...but now? Yeah...TICK
• We have a deep seated hatred of authority: I...what? How does that even!?...I mean...TICK...But screw you list! You can't tell me what to think!
• We have on and off battles with clinical depression: Well that's just a given. TICK
• We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice: Strangely. TICK
• We are able to easily read peoples emotions: That or I am delusional...TICK
• We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics: -peer- TICK
• We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts: Well that's just the same as the self destructive question...but yeah...thanks for that last one...TICK

Well now that it's done...I am not sure if this list is just lots of BS cold calling shenanigans, or a list of genuine observations on trans people...I mean...that's a lot of ticks...

But hey! 20 out of 25 "TICKS" -^^-

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
Yes
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
Yes
We are very insecure
Yes
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
Yes
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
Yes
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Sometimes
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
All the time
We often have inattention to health issues
Yes
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
Yes
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
Yes
We often have well above average intelligence
Hmm. That's a thinker. not really sure.
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
Yes
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
Extremely non competitive.
We are very imaginative daydreamers
Most definately
We display self destructive behavior
At times, yes.
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
Extreme tolerance for everyone
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
In a round about way but sometimes both are needed for society's sake.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
Yes
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
Yes
We gave deep seated hatred of authority
Yes
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
I don't know about the off part. Its pretty constant.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
yes
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
yes. I was in advanced English classes and in the most basic of math classes.
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
Thoughts, yes. plans no and attempts no other than self destructive behavior.

So it's official. I'm transgendered.

Only some of these fit me - but that would be true of anyone.  Most of these don't fit me.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions  - definitely not
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - definitely not
We are very insecure  - not really.
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - nope.  i like to spend time with friends
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - definitely
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - i sometimes like how i look, and sometimes don't like how i look.  i don't have a hatred of it though.
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - nope
We often have inattention to health issues - i'm very attentive to my health
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - not really
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - definitely not.  i'm very cautious and safety oriented.
We often have well above average intelligence - probably
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - yes
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - i am competitive
We are very imaginative daydreamers - yes
We display self destructive behavior - definitely not
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - very tolerant
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - no
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - not any more than anyone else
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - true
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - No
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - absolutely not.  I've always been pretty happy.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - maybe
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - math is a strong subject
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - i've never had suicidal thoughts

Quote from: Danniella on August 07, 2014, 07:44:45 AM
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE A LIST THREAD!?

Let me just warm up my bullet points.

• boop!
• beep!
• boop!

Daniella, you are just the CUTEST!  :)

I have always excelled at math, other than that I agree with the list.

I personally think many of the gender of the mind tests and surveys give too much weight to math being a male trait. In all the math classes I have taken, never have I had a male dominated class.

Quote from: JadeFla on August 08, 2014, 12:10:56 PM
I have always excelled at math, other than that I agree with the list.

I personally think many of the gender of the mind tests and surveys give too much weight to math being a male trait. In all the math classes I have taken, never have I had a male dominated class.

Just because I didn't have the chance to share these statistics in my big feminist spiel a few pages back:


Worldwide, girls are 40% more likely than boys to self-report that they feel "helpless when doing mathematics problems." (35% of girls vs. 25% of boys.) Where in actuality, their test scores worldwide were only 2% lower.

So basically, girls are way better in math than they think they are.

(And by the way, this "2% lower" number is even counting severely gender-biased countries like Turkey, Jordan, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. In Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and Finland, which have the least cultural gender bias according to the Global Gender Gap Report, girls actually had better test results in math than boys. And in the USA, they were about equal.)

So yeah... when you actually crunch the numbers, the rumor that girls aren't as good at math as boys is complete cultural BS. The problem is that we teach girls that they're not supposed to be good at math, and that boys are supposed to be good at it, so girls undermine their own skills because our culture teaches them that being good in math is "unfeminine."

I am excellent at math and love my firearms (in fact I open/conceal carry on a daily basis). I am definitely very competitive and shutdown my emotions in any situation that stresses me out. Not really for the death penalty but I think some people need to die. Other than that...most of it is true lol.

 so if we have these traits I suppose transitioning and SRS are  the only  answers .the treatment of choice, the cats meow. find some surgeon to make you look like a girly you don't care about functionality do you?   What about body dimorphic disorder is SRS the cure 
TS traits are generated in the mind. What's wrong with having these traits ? I have all them 

Hmm, may as well play along  :)

Quote from: Just Mandy on March 24, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions I do believe I am this way
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others Definitely!
We are very insecure Yup...
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone Yep, that's true
We exhibit extreme shyness at times Well, who doesn't?  Eh, I guess I do when I don't know people very well
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance Not on HRT yet, but I always hated how I looked as a male
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves Yep! See above lol
We often have inattention to health issues I am kinda this way.  It took me forever to figure out I am trans :/
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity Yep.  When I was in middle and high school, I would actually change in the bathroom instead of the locker so nobody could see me
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities Nah. Not even close.
We often have well above average intelligence I think I do... Now I sound full of myself  :embarrassed:
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. No to jobs, though I love intensely competitive video games
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground No in normal society, but in video games yes.
We are very imaginative daydreamers DEFINITELY!  I often get lost in my thoughts.
We display self destructive behavior When I would get really angry or depressed, I would hit myself in the head with my fist - it functions the same as cutting
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. Glad to say I am tolerant :)
We are anti-war and anti death penalty Over time, I grew to hate both war and capital punishment.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives Yep.  I never say anything on Facebook, so meh.
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation YEP! I tend to shy away, they make me so uncomfortable
We gave deep seated hatred of authority Recently, I have been.  Not always though
We have on and off battles with clinical depression Yep, never could understand why.  It was severe in my adolescence
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice I believe I am good at this
We are able to easily read peoples emotions Again, I think I am good at it
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics Yes to the first, no to the second.  I am about to receive my B.A. in Mathematics, so definite nope
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts When I got depressed, I would dwell on suicide.  Never attempted it.

Gotta say, I match a lot of the characteristics.  Go figure!
That was fun, lol.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - Nope, not me at all.

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Nope, not me at all.

We are very insecure - I've been insecure at points in my life.

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - Nope, not me.

We exhibit extreme shyness at times - At times, yes..

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - Not so much.

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Yeah, this one..

We often have inattention to health issues - Nope, not me.

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Not me at all..

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - Umm.. Possibly.

We often have well above average intelligence - Yeah, I'll go with that.

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - Hmm..

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - I can be competitive..

We are very imaginative daydreamers - I guess so..

We display self destructive behavior - For sure..

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - I'll go with this one.

We are anti-war and anti death penalty - Seems reasonable.

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - Not really.

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - True enough for me.

We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Nope, just a healthy ability to question.

We have on and off battles with clinical depression - Yep..

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - Yep.

We are able to easily read peoples emotions - Yeah..

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Nope..

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - Couple of times..

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions--No
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others--No
We are very insecure--A little
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone--No
We exhibit extreme shyness at times--No
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance--No
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves--Depends on the day
We often have inattention to health issues--No
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity--Kind of?
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities--No
We often have well above average intelligence--Shrug
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.--No
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground--No
We are very imaginative daydreamers--Yes
We display self destructive behavior--No
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.--Yes
We are anti-war and anti death penalty--Yes
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives--No
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation--Yes
We gave deep seated hatred of authority--I dislike authority.  Deep seated hatred? No
We have on and off battles with clinical depression--No
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice-No idea
We are able to easily read peoples emotions--Yes
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics--No
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts--Not anymore

So much for stereotyping?  Though there would have been more yeses prior to transition.  Maybe it is targeting pre-transitioners?

Hmm let's see

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - No, I strive to be a calm person

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - No, making myself understandable that is another story

We are very insecure - No, I am me and I am happy being me deal with it

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - All my friends are close friends and if they don't want to do something I want I will do it by myself.

We exhibit extreme shyness at times - No, I'm coy never shy there is a difference

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - No I strive to be as well presented as I can. I wish the hormones would work there magic faster 

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - As long as you don't want to se my teeth you can take a picture of me

We often have inattention to health issues - No, I'm an epileptic I lernt to pay attention to my bodies health the fun way

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Ok you got me there I am a private person

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - I have done some stupid thing growing up

We often have well above average intelligence - Yes, I struggled to convince my parents that the hospitality industry was not a waste of my high school education and uni was not for me


We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations - No, I can and have done my job way over the limit with my eyes closed. So no

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - Sadly yes I will compete against myself

We are very imaginative daydreamers - Yes

We display self destructive behavior - No

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - Yes

We are anti-war and anti death penalty - No sometimes they are the solutions to the problems

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - Yes, to paraphrase "American Gods" I hold my cards so close to my chest I'm not sure they are even cards anymore

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Yes, most people I know have weight and strength on me but I will defend my friends and family

We gave deep seated hatred of authority - No I treat everyone equally if you are wrong I will tell you

We have on and off battles with clinical depression - No

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - Yes it is a gift and it freaks some people out

We are able to easily read peoples emotions - Yes

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - 3 unit maths student here and I started reading before I started school.  I don't think so

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - No never nada

What only 9.5.5 yes. WHAT am I doing what am I thinking. Just more proof that these test of traits can be sterotypical and that we are all individuals.

We primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions.
Definitely during my teens. But I gradually let my emotions out of the bottle more and more after leaving high school. Of course that culminated in me breaking down and coming out, so... :'D

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others.
Basically the same answer as above.

We are very insecure.
Yep yep yep. Even now, as I rapidly approach four years since coming out.

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone.
100% true pre-transition. But post-transition I actually became quite popular, and began to really love being around others. ^^

We exhibit extreme shyness at times.
Absolutely. Less so as a girl, but I still have moments where I go completely silent and awkward, especially around strangers, and particularly while speaking English, which was the language that I grew up using as a boy.

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance.
I still have my bad days now, where I feel too awful to even make an effort. But it's something I think I'm getting over more and more post-transition. Pre-transition, though, this was absolutely me.

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves.
I actually like pictures and videos of myself now. ^^ But pre-transition, I would not go near cameras, and there are very, very few photos of me from the start of puberty up until very recently.

We often have inattention to health issues.
Pre-transition, yes. I barely slept, ate badly, didn't brush my teeth, didn't exercise... Nowadays less so, though I can still fall into bad habits when I'm feeling dysphoric.

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity.
Totally. Prior to coming out, I was completely averse to both sex and romance, and even now, after coming out and discovering that I probably have sexual and romantic feelings buried deep inside me, it's all very awkward, modest and underdeveloped. I feel like with regards to sex and romance, I'm still basically at the same point that most twelve or thirteen year old girls are. :'D

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities.
Not really. I was certainly very indifferent to my own safety, but I don't think I went out of my way to seek out danger.

We often have well above average intelligence.
Not as far as I can tell. I guess if you're talking about the whole world's population then I'm probably above average, but I don't think I'm really any smarter than any of my university friends.

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
Yep. I've always been very passionate about foreign languages, which can often be a lifelong endeavour where there's always something new to learn, and I think part of that passion was probably born out of the desire for a distraction.

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground.
I don't think I could possibly be less competitive, even after coming out.

We are very imaginative daydreamers.
Absolutely. Less so after learning to like myself and my life a little more, but even still~

We display self destructive behaviour.
Oh yes.

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
I'd like to think so. ^^ I think the closest thing I've been to intolerant at any point throughout my life was probably the way I felt about those who were strictly religious in the immediate period after I came out. I didn't hate religious people or harbour them any real ill will, but I had heard so many horror stories about religion and LGBT people that I found myself becoming really rather afraid of people who took their religion seriously, and inherently wary when I found out that someone was religious. In recent years, however, I've been fortunate enough to make a number of strictly Christian friends who love me and completely accept me as a female friend (one of whom has become one of my best friends in the whole world), as well as a number of female Muslim friends who, despite being completely aware of my medical history, see me so much as a woman that they always remove their hijab around me when we're together in private. And I think that meeting such wonderful, accepting people has completely melted whatever prejudices I held against religious people. Of course I still know that a lot of people who object to LGBT people do so on religious grounds, but I also know that there are lovely religious people out there like my friends. So I don't think that I really approach interactions with religious people with any particular preconceptions anymore.

We are anti-war and anti death penalty.
Yep. Not much more to say than that, really.

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives.
I keep my life very private offline. But on Facebook, I talk quite openly about living as a transgender person, my relationships with my friends and family, and almost everything else. So not really.

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation.
I've never been in a fight in my life.

We gave deep seated hatred of authority.
I don't dislike those in positions of authority simply because they're in positions of authority. I would only particularly take issue if I felt that they were doing something wrong or abusing that authority. So nope, not really.

We have on and off battles with clinical depression.
Yep yep yep.

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice.
Uh... I guess? But what does that have to do with anything?

We are able to easily read peoples emotions.
As above.

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics.
I've always been more talented at reading and writing, but I never found mathematics that difficult either.

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts.
Yes. Less so now, certainly, but my mind still sometimes wanders that way during its darker moments.

We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - Not really for me. I'm just pretty emotionless but as far as I know it's not a coping mechanism for me.

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Yes

We are very insecure - Nope

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - Yes

We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Yes

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - Nope

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Oh god yes. I hate photos and videos haha.

We often have inattention to health issues - Nope

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - Nope

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - Not jobs but activities is only sometimes.

We often have well above average intelligence - Not too sure.

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations - Sometimes

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - Not competitive at all. Just usually enjoying myself :D

We are very imaginative daydreamers - Nope. My most creative daydreams are usually something along the lines of... hmm I wonder what I should cook for dinner.

We display self destructive behavior - Nope

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc - I'm quite the impatient type. So no I guess?

We are anti-war and anti death penalty - No real opinion.

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives - Not too sure but I quite enjoy being alone :D

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - umm... If sports like taekwondo counts as a type of fight or physical confrontation then nope.

We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Depends but generally don't care.

We have on and off battles with clinical depression - Nope

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - If this question means able to distinguish people than it is a yes.

We are able to easily read peoples emotions - Nope

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Nope, I am the opposite and still am.

We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - Nope

These type of things are interesting :D

Challenge Accepted!


We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions
Yes, I tend to be fairly even keeled, besides anger/frustration, in the past I've used alcohol to blow off emotional steam.
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others
Yes - I've put effort into discussing my feelings with my wife, and vocalizing what I'm feeling, it's a learning process for me but it's one I gladly will continue to try to improve on
We are very insecure
Yes - I'm constantly analyzing myself, my actions, my thoughts and emotions
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone
Yes - I have a handful of close friends (males), that I've known for 20+ years. I do find I spend more time with women at work talking about things besides work.  But that's subjective.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times
Yes - I was painfully shy when trying to approach women for example.  Not unusual, but I didn't want to come across as that "creepy guy hitting on them" I always imagined how forced approaching them would appear from their point of view.
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance
Yes - At times I've hated my appearance.  It ebbs and flows, sometimes I'd do something about it, other times it was not important enough
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves
Well maybe - I find it difficult to look at photos of myself, maybe 1 out of 100 I like
We often have inattention to health issues
Well maybe - I just can't find a GP doctor I like.  My father passed about 2 years ago from cancer, so I forced myself to get screened for colon cancer soon afterwards
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity
Not really - maybe to others besides my wife, with her our bodies are each others, so I don't mind waltzing around nude.  There was this one time I visited a nudist club, but that's another story.. 8)
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities
No really - I'm in IT, it's stressful and fast paced, but definitely not dangerous.  I enjoy fishing, hiking, camping and outdoors.. not quite dangerous either.
We often have well above average intelligence
If pressed i'd say I have above average intelligence, but I don't tend to brag.
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations.
Yes - I tend to work a lot, become intensely focused on what I'm doing and shutout the rest of the world
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground
Somewhat - I would say I can be competitive but generally shy away from competitive sports, and activities.  Feels too much like a pissing contest, which I have no desire to be a part of.
We are very imaginative daydreamers
Wait, what were we talking about?
We display self destructive behavior
Yes - drugs, alcohol, idiocy.. I've done them all in an attempt to escape my head, but often the down side is much worse.  Fortunately, I've had my life together for the past 15 years or so, and none of these have impacted it adversely.  Regardless, I've been very good the past 6mths, rarely binge drinking, and no drugs harder than marijuana.
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc.
I've always detested hatred/bigotry/racism, since I was old enough to recognize it.
We are anti-war and anti death penalty
Yes - but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for such things, nor does it mean I don't have a huge amount of empathy for soldiers, and families that have been affected by murderers
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives
Yes - my secrets are mine, and have been for a long time.  But I'm starting to open up to my wife intentionally.
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation
Sort of - I've been in 2-3 fights my entire life, and generally was uncomfortable about them.  They almost always were the result in someone bullying me or badgering me to my breaking point when I knew I had to do something about it.  Ultimately without testosterone in my system I likely wouldn't have fought.
We gave deep seated hatred of authority
Sort of - I was a punk rocker, skater, and independent politically.
We have on and off battles with clinical depression
Maybe not - i've never been to a therapist until recently to talk about my gender, I have no idea if I've been in depression, I just am how I am subjectively.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice
Yes, I'm good with faces and voices.. I can usually place both in songs, movies and real life
We are able to easily read peoples emotions
Maybe - not neccessarily great with reading emotions, but have strong empathy for others beliefs, feelings and point of views
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics
Yes, I was reading in pre-school, and was teaching 1st graders to read when I was in 4th grade.  I worked in a library in junior high, and two years in high school.  On the flip side, I was good at math and had a knack for it, but wouldn't say I was brilliant.  I managed to get get through Calc 1 and 2 + Linear Algebra in college by spending enormous amounts of time studying, and using repetition and memorization of things.  I really think almost anyone could have done the same though, with the techniques I was using.
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts
The only time I was moderately suicidal was in high school, it was a difficult time for me, and I had a hard time finding myself.  I bounced around cliques like trying on clothes or shoes whichever is your favorite analogy.  8) Ultimately I got through it, and redefined who "me" was by leaving all my friends and moving away for college

Quote from: Annabelle on August 17, 2014, 06:12:04 AM
We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - YES...like to an unbelievable level.

We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - YES

We are very insecure - YES

We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - YES

We exhibit extreme shyness at times - YES

We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - So true

We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Eh, not so much, but just my face.

We often have inattention to health issues - Absolutely

We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - No

We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - YES

We often have well above average intelligence - YES

We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations - YES

We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - I hate losing more than I like winning, so um, yeah.

We are very imaginative daydreamers - Always

We display self destructive behavior - Scarily true

We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc - YES

We are anti-war and anti death penalty - Anti war but I think we should expand the death penalty to include sexually violent crimes (I'm the only pro-death penalty, bleeding heart liberal I know)

We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives - YES

We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Unlikely, but I have a big mouth sometimes so losing physical confrontations is a possibility. lol

We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Oh God yes

We have on and off battles with clinical depression - YES

We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - More than their faces, yes, definitely.

We are able to easily read peoples emotions - YES

We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Good in both :)
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - Nope

Thanks for letting me share!

1. We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions. Yes.

2. We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others. Definitely

3. We are very insecure. Definitely.

4. We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone. Yes.

5. We exhibit extreme shyness at times. I was really, really shy and still am somewhat.

6. We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance. Yes.

7. We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves. Yes, there's very few pre-transition photos of me other than pictures taken by family members.

8. We often have inattention to health issues. Yes.

9. We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity. Yes.

10. We often take on dangerous jobs or activities. No, not really.

11. We often have well above average intelligence. I'm not sure, a lot of people say I'm intelligent, but I'm not really sure and sometimes think they are just saying things to be nice.

12. We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. Not really a job, but I have an intense interest in subjects like chemistry and microbiology and foreign languages.

13. We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground. I am actually very non-competitive.

14. We are very imaginative daydreamers. ?

15. We display self destructive behavior. Yes.

16. We possess a tolerance for others. Yes, it makes me stand out where I live.

17. We are anti-war and anti death penalty. Yes, this also makes me stand out where I live.

18. We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives. Definitely, almost to the point of paranoia.

19. We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation. I don't look fights, but sometimes fights have come to me.

20. We gave deep seated hatred of authority. Definitely.

21. We have on and off battles with clinical depression. Apparently, yes, I was diagnosed in November.

22. We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice. Sometimes.

23. We are able to easily read peoples emotions. ?

24. We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics. Wow, this describes me exactly. I learned to read at an unusually early age and read a lot, but have had difficulty with mathematics my entire life.

25. We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts. I've been in some very dark places before.

all true for me except 2 of them   92%

I fit the profile too except in these three things.

3. We are very insecure. Yes when it comes to trans related things but pretty much the opposite of insecure with everything else.

17. We are anti-war and anti death penalty. No, I'm not anti-war.  Maybe it's because my job once had me witness and document an event where 48 men were marched off and executed by their government.  Yes, sometimes evil is real and needs to be defeated.  I am anti death penalty but only because I don't fully trust our justice system to only convict the guilty.

24. We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics. Yes, I excel in reading and writing but I also excel in math.


Sapere Aude

Despite having serious doubts about its validity as a diagnostic tool, I find it interesting that I have 19 affirmative responses, 5 ambiguous or unsure responses, and 1 negative response.

23 yes
2 No

Don't know what, if anything, it tells me that I don't already know LOL  ;D ;D ;D

Wow, this is kinda an eye opener. Yes I'll take it with a grain or two of salt but still this is uncanny. Not sure anyone would want to read my answers but here they are.

We primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - That big check, the fact that I do that actually made me question myself
We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - Yupper
We are very insecure - That's a big 10-4
We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - I only have 3 or 4 close friends and I only see 1 of them on a regular basis.
We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Yes'm
We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - Running out of synonyms for yes
We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Ohh ya seeing myself just makes me feel weird
We often have inattention to health issues - Ya doctors creep me out I often worry when I go there they'll tell me I'm dying or have some sort of disease
We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - I'm a total prude
We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - I work with explosives
We often have well above average intelligence - I like to think that I'm fairly bright
We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations. - I'm an engineer
We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - Video games, ya I get competitive. Everyday life not competitive at all.
We are very imaginative daydreamers - I day dream all the freaking time
We display self destructive behavior - I use to drink, like a lot
We possess a tolerance for others, very unlikely to be racist, homophobic etc. - Thats true
We are anti-war and anti death penalty - Not really, I'm not a fan of wars and the death penalty, but they are basically facts of life.
We have the need for more than usual privacy in our  lives - YES! I live alone and love it, when friends are over for a long time I start getting antsy.
We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Ya I've never been in a fist fight
We gave deep seated hatred of authority - To quote Pennywise (the band, not the clown) <Not Permitted> Authority
We have on and off battles with clinical depression - Never been diagnosed with depression but even though I try to be an optimist, I feel down sometimes.
We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - Weird but true
We are able to easily read peoples emotions - I'll pay closer attention to this to see if thats true
We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Not really, I've always been good at math as far as I know
We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - Disagree on this one too, I'm terrified of death in general.

Mod Edit:Language

QuoteWe excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics

That notion can <not allowed> itself to death and go to <not allowed>.

Quote from: sparrow on January 30, 2016, 12:15:54 AM

QuoteWe excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics

That notion can <not allowed> itself to death and go to <not allowed>.

Omg is that coming from that lame CoGIaTI test, when transwomen had to answer the questions 'right' or else told they are not trans? Middle age of the 20th century.

All the answers that were no for me. 
8 10 11 14 17 20 22 23 24

This is a horrible test.

Quote from: Martine A. on January 30, 2016, 12:22:16 AM
That notion can <not allowed> itself to death and go to <not allowed>.


Omg is that coming from that lame CoGIaTI test, when transwomen had to answer the questions 'right' or else told they are not trans? Middle age of the 20th century.

:D :D :D

Nailed it like totally. Even most contemporary women would fail that test, so stereotypical...

Lemme rant a little :D

1. We have a primarily cope with the condition by shutting down all emotions - Sounds like a common strategy.
2. We have an inability to discuss deep feelings with others - This one sounds interesting. Works for me.
3. We are very insecure - Looks logical regarding a condition considered as a social stigma.
4. We have very few, if any, close friends, prefers to spend time alone - Insecurity related?
5. We exhibit extreme shyness at times - Again insecure related.
6. We have a hatred of (and inattention to) our appearance - Obvious.
7. We avoid pictures and videos of ourselves - Totally obvious again.
8. We often have inattention to health issues - Interesting one. Worked for me too.
9. We have extreme modesty about our sexuality and partial and full nudity - And another obvious one.
10. We often take on dangerous jobs or activities - Interesting but maybe kind of logical. Also worked.
11. We often have well above average intelligence - Very interesting one, anyway I'm just 2 standard deviations above, so not "well above" at all. Not working for me.
12. We immerse ourselves in activities or jobs that require intense concentration and highly technical vocations - Common coping strategy again.
13. We are extremely competitive or extremely non-competitive with no middle ground - This one can be interesting too. Worked for me.
14. We are very imaginative daydreamers - Before transitioning I was. Nowadays I'm not.
15. We display self destructive behavior - Obvious.
16. We possess a tolerance for others - Lol, this should be one of the most logical and obvious ones, but sadly it's not. We still have plenty of close-minded people in our community (see "not trans enough", "trans hierarchy", etc).
17. We are anti-war and anti death penalty - Very conditioned to ideological background. Can't see a point.
18. We have the need for more than usual privacy in our lives - Obvious one. Stigma related.
19. We are very unlikely to fight or have a physical confrontation - Insecurity related.
20. We gave deep seated hatred of authority - Interesting one. I have.
21. We have on and off battles with clinical depression - Obvious one here.
22. We are easily able to place people by the sounds of their voice - Interesting one. It's HRT effect too.
23. We are able to easily read peoples emotions. - Interesting one. I wasn't but this vastly improved after HRT.
24. We excel in reading and writing at an early age but have difficulty with mathematics - Interesting one again. I must detail I grasped basic arithmetic also before school. My personal difficulties with math were mostly calculation issues. Math was always to me easy to understand, easy to abstract but hard to perform.
25. We often have suicidal thoughts, plans or attempts - Really obvious one.

20 yes, 5 no.

Uncertain about a few of these, but I'm "yes" for about 2/3 of the statements.

Oooh, oooh, I want to play!

...but my question is:  is this pre-transition generalities or what? :icon_confused2:

Honestly, my agreement/disagreement with a lot of these "traits" are very much dependent upon when they are applicable.

Except for a couple, that pretty much pegs me.

I don't identify with the test at all lol  :) I'm a social butterfly who can't stand to be alone, sees her friends at least once a week, if not twice or three times and loves working in a customer service job in an open plan office. Ideally it would be HR, but I need to get a little bit more experience first. I do daydream though. And I wouldn't know one of a screwdriver from the other. I'm just not practical.

But the test does seem to be a little bit stereotyped to me. Sort of in a different way to the normal sexist stereotyping, although there's a common theme. I read it as being formed around the notion that transsexualism and autism spectrum disorders are somehow linked. I could be wrong, but the average autistic person is going to answer yes to quite a few of the points to do with socialisation regardless of their sex or gender identity.

I'm totally not autistic, so large parts of it are completely irrelevant on planet Missy. I am a transsexual, but I don't think that's going to be a the cause of not having many friends or preferring to be alone. Lots of it seems similar to autism tests I've looked at in the past.  :) My Mum is really experienced in this area and has told me loads about diagnosis so I've got some sort of second-hand insight into it  :) Although I'm in no way qualified so this is just my opinion as usual lol!!!

So to me it reads like, if you're autistic or have spectrum traits, then you'll answer yes to lots of it. If you're not then it's not going to mean much. I don't know why this link came about as a thing, I've just heard that it is a thing!!

Also I'm the reverse on the authority scale too - I don't honestly mind it if it's got a good heart and is working towards a better society.

I always wondered if I was a little autistic.  The thing is, while I don't particularly enjoy it and it always feels awkward I can engage in social situations pretty seamlessly.  I also don't have any real problems speaking in front of groups anymore.


Sapere Aude