Lately, I've run into more than a few people who seem to want to know more about being trans, but after I spend a few minutes talking to them, they say things like...
"But...don't you want to go to heaven?"
"I know some people think they're trans...but I don't believe in it."
"Well, that's between you and God."
"You should read the Bible about what God says about being trans."
"Are you gay?"
"I've heard people like you have dual sex organs."
"You're pretty flamboyant." (I am, but the tone was "I wish you'd not wear things that upset me.")
"I've heard other people talk about you...it wasn't very complimentary." (Meant to give me an insecurity complex...LOL I didn't bite)
"What does your wife/mother/partner think about this?"
Feel free to add your fav lines that make you want to groan, cry, or just b!tch-slap the person... ;)
"You will still be a guy no matter what"
I still get that one from time to time.
One more:
"I wish you'd become a Christian, and stay being a man." (She really, really didn't get it. :-X )
Sometimes it's like I'm talking to a wall.
I fully support you, but don't you think you'll have problems dealing with people on committees (at work)? :laugh: :laugh:
One of the funny things about that comment is that it was made by one of my managers, I'm his boss BTW, he also has a particular style of dealing with female employees, a sort of helpful and supportive but I'm a guy so I will help you girls get it right attitude, not particularly sexist but 'superior' . He has now started the same attitude with me, "Do you need some help filling out those documents?" "If you like I can check what you have done". I'm finding it hilarious; acceptance by sexism :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:.
Quote from: Cindy James on July 28, 2012, 03:21:39 AM
I fully support you, but
I
hate those 5 words.
No, no you clearly don't if you start any sentence with that, no matter what comes after >:(
ugh, some people... :laugh:
I can't quote anything specific, but the worst I've had so far has been from a good friend who's polluted by 80's feminist conditioning - she's so full of assumptions about why I'm transitioning and what I want, it's like wading through cooked spinach*.
I'm really, really tired of hearing people "tell" me that I didn't grow up as a woman, so I didn't have the same experiences. Like I don't know that already. They always go on about the oppression, and I always counter by pointing out that from where I'm standing, growing up as a woman is a "privilege" I was denied, whilst at the same time being denied the "privilege" of growing up as a man who was accepted as such.
Honestly, why do people assume we haven't spent a lifetime thinking this through?
Okay, I'm over it now :).
*on reading this back, I realise this sounds a bit insane :). But I meant how spinach is thready, and clings to stuff when you're trying to get it off.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 28, 2012, 03:13:37 AM
One more:
"I wish you'd become a Christian, and stay being a man." (She really, really didn't get it. :-X )
Sometimes it's like I'm talking to a wall.
I often think I'd be better off talking to the refrigerator :laugh: I at least can open the fridge and usually find something comforting to digest
Quote from: V M on July 28, 2012, 03:36:21 AM
I often think I'd be better off talking to the refrigerator :laugh: I at least can open the fridge and usually find something comforting to digest
Yes, and at least the fridge has a light on inside... ^-^
Quote from: Alexis on July 28, 2012, 03:27:57 AM
I hate those 5 words.
No, no you clearly don't if you start any sentence with that, no matter what comes after >:(
ugh, some people... :laugh:
I totally agree. In contrast to another male employee; his response was, " I've known you have been so depressed sometimes, you poor woman growing up through that. Can I give you a hug" 'Thank you so much for coming out to me, if I an ever be of any help I demand you let me know"
One has my respect. One doesn't
I haven't began my transition yet but I have ran into a few of these already after coming out.
"God doesn't make mistakes." I hate this one.
"You are a woman./You will always be a woman to me."
"I can tell you for FACT that you aren't transgender."
"No, your not a transsexual."
"You aren't transgender. I changed your diaper so I know."
"I know tons of people of my work "like that" my girlfriend's niece is "like that" and she's pregnant. My brother was "like that". As a matter of fact there goes one "like that" walking out of the store now."
"That is a waste of money. Just skip it and get it out of your mind and move to the next thing."
"You don't need therapy. Just work this out yourself."
"Well you know the consequences."
"Well there are times that I am totally not happy with myself either. Should I go out and have sex just because I'm battling in my flesh?"
"You should just be happy with yourself."
"See you are focusing on what you want when you should be focusing on God. Pray to him and let him come into your life and when that happens you will know because tears will flow from your eyes."
"Before you focus on top surgery you need to get therapy. You are already on step 12." Actually this one is the truth lol
Quote"God doesn't make mistakes." I hate this one.
Oh yeah, I've heard this one...my response was "There are people who are born without feet...would they be offending God if they asked a doctor to provide them with prosthetic feet?"
"Well, no, but that's different."
I try to keep the conversation to a minimum, because either a person supports us already, or they don't. I really don't think any length of conversation will persuade 99% of the "don'ts" to be on our side.
imho
I find it's way better to say to people "What makes you think that, then?" than to try and tell them "It's not like that, it's like this!!!" People often assume they're the only one with a right to question, I like to throw it back in their court. And sometimes, they end up realising they have no basis for their assumptions.
I do remember one of the television Doctors responding to a MtF by saying. "Don't be so silly, take a cold shower and join a football team and play male sports'
Top of his profession that one.
Patronising is a great male sport ;D.
"I don't believe for a minute you are transgendered, you're too much of a nerd, and were my idol in that respect, and you were a hard core gun guy."
That came right out of my brother-in-law's mouth the day my mother-in-law passed away. :(
Sounds kind of sexist to me really.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 28, 2012, 02:50:01 AM
Lately, I've run into more than a few people who seem to want to know more about being trans, but after I spend a few minutes talking to them, they say things like..
Depressing and bizarre. They sound as infantile and puerile as primary school kids. I'm as atheist as they come, so all that heaven/god stuff is as meaningful as Santa striking me off
his her Xmas list. Wow.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 28, 2012, 02:50:01 AM
"What does your wife//partner think about this?"
That's not a strange or rude question....not at all.
It's an acknowledgement that she exists
too and has her own personality, choice over matters, her own opinion, her own sexuality, her own emotions her own sexual ID etc. too...like she should have.
Do all of you live in Bible camps? :laugh: :P
Quote from: Malachite on July 28, 2012, 03:48:57 AM
"I know tons of people of my work "like that" my girlfriend's niece is "like that" and she's pregnant. My brother was "like that". As a matter of fact there goes one "like that" walking out of the store now."
I hate that term!
The one I hear a lot is,
"Its a phase"
Erm ... sorry to disappoint ... its not a 'phase', I won't "grow out of it"!
x
"Why have you lied to me about who you really were all these years? Admit you are a deceptive liar!"
Silence followed by continuously referring to me as a woman.
"Why does it matter?" and "What you are doesn't matter."
"Well, I feel like I'm supposed to be skinny." (So not the same thing.)
Claiming to be accepting, then continuously referring to me as female while making a big deal about how what I am doesn't matter when I refer to myself as a guy.
"You're not doing this because you feel there are obstacles you can't surpass as a woman are you?" This was from my mother and prompted me to ask, "Have you met me?"
From a gender therapist:
"You shouldn't think about transition." (Who was he to tell me what to think about?)
"Why are you so negative?" (This was after continuously telling me what I shouldn't be thinking and I was understandably pissed.)
"Can't you just be a tomboy or a butch lesbian?"
"FtMs are only attracted to women."
Talking about how all the credit of parenting should be given to mothers when I'm right there. Trash talking men when I'm right there. (Although admittedly, I will too, I understand where they're coming from, and they don't mean me.)
Quote from: MariaMx on July 28, 2012, 08:32:44 AM
"Why have you lied to me about who you really were all these years? Admit you are a deceptive liar!"
Which, in fact is true...isn't it? Except for 'you are'....'you were'...
Quote from: Dahlia on July 28, 2012, 09:01:32 AM
Which, in fact is true...isn't it? Except for 'you are'....'you were'...
Yes, you are right, that should be 'are'. While technically true it is a highly inappropriate thing to say and shows a massive lack of understanding of the situation. For me being trans was something I explained away to myself as intrusive thoughts or something. A bug in the system if you will. I was extremely ashamed of these feelings and treated them as they weren't relevant to my real life. In essence I thought of my GD as not being real, and therefore the person I presented as was the real me.
Quote from: Dahlia on July 28, 2012, 07:27:16 AM
That's not a strange or rude question....not at all.
It's an acknowledgement that she exists too and has her own personality, choice over matters, her own opinion, her own sexuality, her own emotions her own sexual ID etc. too...like she should have.
Except the
intention (based on context) is to reinforce the idea "you shouldn't do this, because you're hurting her."
I've had other people ask it, and given the other (supportive) things they say, makes it a sincere question.
Quote from: MariaMx on July 28, 2012, 08:32:44 AM
"Why have you lied to me about who you really were all these years? Admit you are a deceptive liar!"
A better way of wording that would be "Why didn't you tell me?" or "Why didn't you feel you could tell me?" in a supportive, but questioning tone. Then the reasons can be discussed in a polite an honest way rather than both people getting defensive and causing more hurt than it's worth.
After a classmate found out, she asked me "Did it hurt?" (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.on-my-web.com%2Frepository%2FAnimals%2Fferret-7.gif&hash=9f27f1603b9ef76a5d4bbeedcd1615f680c36e8b) I assumed she meant developing boobs. But she really was asking about SRS. Well DUH! it is major surgery. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.on-my-web.com%2Frepository%2FAnimals%2Fferret-9.gif&hash=42bd2ee88d4ddc91007b3b25799f543e9ee358f1)
And as always. "God doesn't make mistakes." Best reply is "No, she doesn't. She made me this way for her glory."
Just tell them God spoke to you and told you this was part of The Plan all along. See if they can respond to THAT! (Hell, if God could tell George W. Bush to go to war in the Middle East then God can certainly tell you to 'go to war' on your body :laugh:)
Everyone knows I'm so 'god-less' I couldn't pull off this statement personally though. Your experiences may vary.
* There's no such thing as gender. It's all a product of how you were raised.
* You're just a guy getting in touch with his female side.
Quote from: agfrommd on July 28, 2012, 10:28:10 AM
* There's no such thing as gender. It's all a product of how you were raised.
* You're just a guy getting in touch with his female side.
Oh! I get that too except about male.
"Gender is a social construct." That I put on the same level as scientology and creationism, yet I still feel the way I do.
Me: I'm genderfluid.
Them: You like girls? (or some other comment about sexuality)
Me: *head desk* Well, yes, but that's not the same thing.
See, this is why I avoid the word "transsexual" ;D. It annoys me a lot that people understand me better if I tell them I'm a hippy dyke than if I say I'm a trans woman who likes women.
"Your an Abomination, your going straight to hell!" Uh no, you are!
"God doesn't make mistakes." I never said he did! He loves me as the real me, I was made in his image!
"You should just be happy with yourself." I am!
" why would you want to be a THING?" I am not a thing I am a person, a young woman!
"You will always just be a really pretty boy, thats it! you will never be a real girl"
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 28, 2012, 10:04:44 AM
Except the intention (based on context) is to reinforce the idea "you shouldn't do this, because you're hurting her."
I've had other people ask it, and given the other (supportive) things they say, makes it a sincere question.
Well, a wife or GF who gets, sometimes after years or even decades, involuntarily involved with a hubby/BF who turns out to be a MTF needs a lot of support (too)
Otherwise the whole MTF thing will revolve around the MTF......while the wife/GF, her feelings, emotions, etc gets totally snowed under.
That's almost like totally denying her existence, her personality, character, choices, feeling, emotions, her sexual identity....
Yeah, but no one should be expected to be someone other than who they are for another person.
"Why can't you just be happy with what you have?"
"You're insulting the Women's Struggle... blah blah male privilege blah drone..." ::)
Any variation on "Have you thought about this?" - seriously?
Quote from: Dahlia on July 28, 2012, 11:09:35 AM
Well, a wife or GF who gets, sometimes after years or even decades, involuntarily involved with a hubby/BF who turns out to be a MTF needs a lot of support (too)
Otherwise the whole MTF thing will revolve around the MTF......while the wife/GF, her feelings, emotions, etc gets totally snowed under.
That's almost like totally denying her existence, her personality, character, choices, feeling, emotions, her sexual identity....
Absolutely! And I do support and encourage her, whatever her choice is/will be.
This means we're getting a divorce. I'm open to reconciliation, but me being "Beth" is not negotiable, and her wanting a "man" as a husband is not negotiable. So, we're at an impasse, with me encouraging her without smothering her (I hope so...she doesn't give me any feedback on things).
"The opposite of love is not hate...It is indifference."
But, for other people to think that because I'm trans that somehow I'm "of course" neglecting my duties as a husband and father...that's a forehead slap.
"But if you're married to a guy, you should just stay a girl."
"Why bother transitioning if you aren't a lesbian?" (I facepalmed through my own head on this one)
"You're just a Butch lesbian in denial."
"You can't be a guy because you have XX chromosomes." or "Nature doesn't make mistakes."
"You only think that because you have mother issues and were always really close with the men in the family."
But I've had a few acceptance comments that were pretty awesome. My favorite was my grandmother. "Hm. Yeah. You made a terrible girl. Like a bull in a china shop. How's the weather?"
Quote from: Ayden on July 29, 2012, 09:00:31 PM
"Nature doesn't make mistakes."
Actually, it's a scientific (and obvious) fact that no biological processes are perfect.
"Did porn make you feel this way?" My Dad during our first awkward conversation.
Quote from: EmmaMcAllister on July 29, 2012, 09:33:47 PM
"Did porn make you feel this way?" My Dad during our first awkward conversation.
lol.. love it! I would have responded "yes dad, in fact I am quiting school and becoming a pornstar!"
great avatar by the way! super cute!
Quote from: Jen-Jen on July 29, 2012, 09:40:02 PM
lol.. love it! I would have responded "yes dad, in fact I am quiting school and becoming a pornstar!"
great avatar by the way! super cute!
Hehe. And, thanks!
Pre-transition, I had an absurdly low "female" T level, below the bottom of the range. When my ex found out, he said, "Maybe if you take a really low dose of T, you'll get up to normal female levels and not want to transition."
I know, I know--he was grasping at straws. But it showed me he just didn't get it, despite knowing me as male-identified for some eighteen years before that date.
Things actually said to me when I was out but not yet dressing:
-Why do you want to be an ugly chick?
-No one will ever believe you are a woman.
-Don't take this wrong, but thinking of you in a dress makes me want to throw up.
-You're about the least womanly man I know.
-Who do you think you are kidding?
-Is this a joke? You a girl?
-What makes you think you are a woman all of a sudden?
-You know you have to cut it off, right?
-You do know that you're bald?
-Are you sure you want to do this?
-Have you seen a shrink?
Funny, all of that stopped, completely (except for the occasional 'cut it off' comment) after they saw me dressed.
Then it was:
-Did the surgery to make you a woman hurt a lot? (asked me at the pharmacy on the 1st day after I went full time, by someone who knew me by name as a guy up til then)
-Every question that begins with: 'I hope you don't mind me asking this, but...'
-So how does your wife like being a lesbian?
-Are you going to keep your penis?
-What was so bad about being a man?
-Do you think you'll be arrested for fraud for not telling people you were really a woman inside?
-I am NOT transphobic; I just know you are not really transgender.
-It's not transphobic to hate a pervert in a dress.
-Don't you think you are being incredibly selfish?
-Just because you look like one and say you are one doesn't make you one.
-So are you going to have sex with [insert group here] now?
-What if you regret it and can't go back?
-Oh you were never suicidal. You're just making that up to control me.
-Come on, how much could you have really been suffering if you didn't become a woman until [insert age]?
-Money doesn't grow on trees you know. Why don't you just wait a few years?
-What if I need you to be a man?
-Are you doing this so that you can cheat on your wife?
-Are you doing this so that she will divorce you?
-Are you doing this just to make me mad?
-Why don't you just admit you are gay? There is nothing wrong with that.
-Are you going to quit your job now?
-What's next? Are you going to tell me that you are a serial killer?
You just have to laugh - educate - and be ready to walk away when necessary. :P
Great list Madeline. Though, interestingly I noticed one line in particular.
Quote from: MadelineB on July 30, 2012, 12:43:55 AM
-Are you going to keep your penis?
Person who said it may well be clueless, and is under any circumstances amazingly rude.
But maybe not a stupid question given the many non-op MtFs on Susan's who are every bit as female as the Post-ops.
Quote from: MadelineB on July 30, 2012, 12:43:55 AM
-What's next? Are you going to tell me that you are a serial killer?
:laugh: Please tell me you said yes.
Quote from: Edge on July 30, 2012, 07:39:05 AM
:laugh: Please tell me you said yes.
Or better, didn't say anything and stared intently into their eyes with a slightly tilted head!
x
"Will you get periods and be able to get pregnant?"
Nice one Maria,
Quote from: MariaMx on July 30, 2012, 08:50:30 AM
"Will you get periods and be able to get pregnant?"
Just for the hell of it, that question begs the appropriate answer. YES!! I just love to gauge the reaction. Regrettably by the time I've been given that question, we've reached the pinnacle of the conversation and it's all down hill, quite rapidly, from here on in.
Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine
I forgot the leading ones:
"How long have you wanted to be a woman?" and
"How long have you thought you were a woman?"
Answer to both: never, obviously ;D.
"You feel this way because of the things you went through as a child and your father was never there so you built up a wall."
"You have a masculine spirit attached to you."
"Even if you get the surgeries, they will not make you happy."
Quote from: MadelineB on July 30, 2012, 12:43:55 AM
-Don't you think you are being incredibly selfish?
-What if I need you to be a man?
I love the contrast in those two statements.
"Everyone has both masculine and feminine traits."
Any variation where they confuse being male with having (their definition of) masculine traits.
Quote from: Catherine Sarah on July 30, 2012, 08:56:30 AM
Nice one Maria,
Just for the hell of it, that question begs the appropriate answer. YES!! I just love to gauge the reaction. Regrettably by the time I've been given that question, we've reached the pinnacle of the conversation and it's all down hill, quite rapidly, from here on in.
Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine
Only one person ever asked me this but unfortunately I didn't say yes, I just laughed. The next thing she asked was how I knew I was trans. I believe I told her it said so in the result that came back from the lab when they did my blood work :laugh:
Quote from: MariaMx on July 30, 2012, 09:31:06 AM
The next thing she asked was how I knew I was trans. I believe I told her it said so in the result that came back from the lab when they did my blood work :laugh:
Great reply Maria. Would have loved to seen the look on her face. As I said, the conversation does rapidly degenerate once you pass that question about pregnancy.
Huggs
Catherine
Whenever people ask me "Are you going to get it cut off, then?", as they often do - I always reply (in a jaunty tone, and with a mad look in my eye):
"Nonono, I'm going to have it turned inside out, and then I'm going to grow potatoes in it!!!"
Quote from: Padma on July 30, 2012, 09:44:19 AM
Whenever people ask me "Are you going to get it cut off, then?", as they often do..
My reply would be: "None of your fk business". Why even honour their very personal, and frankly very offensive, questions with an answer? What do you owe them? These "favourite lines" are not good for my normally low blood pressure. I'd better stop reading.
A couple of my favorites are
"well you could think male and be male but it won't happen unless you have a clear head"
and this one still hurts when I read it
"no surgery no matter what you do. even you did go through the whole thing. you may feel look like a female, and possibly down there, but you wouldn't be completely a female" - well duh but at least my body would match my mind ( still can't believe that it was this person that said this to me)
I've always loved the question "Wouldn't it be easier to stay the same and just be straight? I mean, you'd be normal. Now you'll be, what--a gay man? Why would you want to live that way?"
Gee, I don't know. Because that's what I really am?
Or "But then you wouldn't be straight anymore. What would you be?"
Perhaps a giraffe.
The most confusing one for me was after I came out to a pretty close friend and he said "oh I don't believe in that, I think people just do it to escape who they really are"
erm what? It's only like...the EXACT opposite of that
He refused to change his viewpoint no matter what I said, so we're no longer friends
Quote from: Jeatyn on July 30, 2012, 04:42:23 PM
He refused to change his viewpoint no matter what I said, so we're no longer friends
So, according to this guy, who are you really?! And how would he feel if you told him that YOU get to decide who HE really is? Sheesh.
Quote from: dumb bunny on July 30, 2012, 03:23:52 PM
.. I dismissed rather quickly as anything pertaining to my being trans is really none of their business and I am not shy about pointing that out.
Precisely and good on you.
Quote from: Felicitá on July 30, 2012, 10:01:23 AM
My reply would be: "None of your fk business". Why even honour their very personal, and frankly very offensive, questions with an answer? What do you owe them? These "favourite lines" are not good for my normally low blood pressure. I'd better stop reading.
I tend to be pretty casual and willing to discuss any topic when a person has the gumption to ask it...even if they don't realize that it's "personal."
If they ask, they're able to understand the answer.
In theory. The reality is I have YET to meet even one person who will change their ideas based on what I say. At most, I may be planting a seed...but it seems to me (based on talking to many people about many things) that the "more wrong" their views are, the "more likely" that nothing will take root.
"Wrong" is defined as "against any and all evidence to the contrary."
I read somewhere that that is a useful definition of bigotry.
I don't get angry though...no reason to. Bigots simply cannot think beyond their world. All I can do is smile and wish them well in their journey.
But, that's me.
:)
Quote from: agfrommd on July 30, 2012, 07:18:23 AM
Great list Madeline. Though, interestingly I noticed one line in particular.
Person who said it may well be clueless, and is under any circumstances amazingly rude.
But maybe not a stupid question given the many non-op MtFs on Susan's who are every bit as female as the Post-ops.
Thanks Agfrommd. Very good point!
Unfortunately the person who asked it wasn't asking if I was going to keep my genitals
un-altered (that would be a great question as long as it was someone I was intimate / potentially intimate with). Many of us either aren't candidates for GRS, don't want it, or can't afford it.
But this guy was one of those people who doesn't understand that most GRS surgeries for transsexual women involve inversion of the penis, but never a penectomy. When I asked a clarifying question, it turned out they were asking if I would get to keep it in a jar of formaldehyde to show people. He sounded really worried about what happens to penises people don't want. LOL.
Quote from: Bexi on July 30, 2012, 07:46:08 AM
Or better, didn't say anything and stared intently into their eyes with a slightly tilted head!
x
BINGO! But add in a sly smile and tapping my chin thoughtfully with one of my red fingernails... MWUHAHAHAH!
I'm dead serious about this one. The LDS/Mormon church leadership (at the top levels) told me that it was a
"sin next only to murder."
I'm not kidding. It's worse than anything else except murder. I tell you, I didn't feel very good on that day. That means that I was worse than child molestors, theives, corrupt politicians... yeah... everything except those who commit murder.
Quote from: MadelineB on July 31, 2012, 01:51:05 AM
He sounded really worried about what happens to penises people don't want. LOL.
Even now, I'm involved in fundraising to set up a shelter ;D.
Once medicine catches up, we could run an adoption service for FTMs...
Quote from: Cindi Jones on July 31, 2012, 02:08:23 AM
I'm dead serious about this one. The LDS/Mormon church leadership (at the top levels) told me that it was a
"sin next only to murder."
I'm not kidding. It's worse than anything else except murder. I tell you, I didn't feel very good on that day. That means that I was worse than child molestors, theives, corrupt politicians... yeah... everything except those who commit murder.
***TRIGGER WARNING: LDS REFERENCES***
I'm sorry you went through that Cindy. Sounds like we might have some common experiences. I think it was just a few months before the whole "excommunicate an intellectual feminist" craze started (late 80's?) in the church I grew up in, that I had the word from one of the GA's in a "priesthood only" meeting I was in that for a "male priesthood holder" to undergo surgery to "become a woman" was considered to be equivalent to the "sin against the holy ghost" and was unforgiveable in this life and would probably consign one to "outer darkness" in the next, but he couldn't say for sure about the outer darkness part since that wasn't "for any man to know".
Whereas there was a procedure in place at that time where a convicted murderer could finish out their sentence and then be ok'ed for re-baptism but it required an interview with a member of the first presidency, followed by an exception letter signed by the POTC, there was no POTC exception for transgender women who underwent SRS. It is possible that has changed in the years since - I would hope so. The requirements were less stringent than murder for other crimes like rape and molestation; those were subject to local church authorities. My take away from the GA's talk (I was still in the gold plated closet at the time) was that I wold be worse than any murderer if I followed through with the dream of my heart.
I've been really noticing lately how the chief dose of transphobic bile in the world seems to be reserved for MTFs - it does seem like these transphobes just can't deal with "men not wanting to be men", but don't much care about women in comparison (in much the same way as with gay vs. lesbian issues). I wonder why that is.
I'm curious to know whether the LDS has a similar position on the "evilness" of FTM transition?
Yes, Madeline,
I got much of that in my excommunication letteer. And let us not forget the king in the Book of Mormon was forgiven for going to war and murdering who knows how many. I suppose that might be a church justification for a future president taking on Iran?
You remember more than I wanted to recall. Oh it was a tough time for me. They literally followed me everywhere I went. They beat me down mentally, cut me off, and then wouldn't leave me alone for years as they tried to get me to come back. Go figure. They told me I was well-loved. Hey, you can kill someone with love like that! ;)
I do miss the social aspects... sort of. They don't do social things any more. It's just a block of indoctrination every Sunday. Whatever happened to the dances, mutual, roadshows, and pot luck dinners? I think that I ultimately would have divorced and left the church even if I hadn't done the transition thing. I went on a mission and everything else, but I either had to leave or do something less satisfactory. I truly was a cult member.
Quote from: Padma on July 31, 2012, 03:32:56 AM
I've been really noticing lately how the chief dose of transphobic bile in the world seems to be reserved for MTFs - it does seem like these transphobes just can't deal with "men not wanting to be men", but don't much care about women in comparison (in much the same way as with gay vs. lesbian issues). I wonder why that is.
I think that's mostly because MTFs have been visible and FTMs haven't. You should hear the things I've heard about FTMs in the past couple of years, especially since Chaz Bono came out. Fortunately, Thomas Beatie hasn't been as visible.
Quote from: Padma on July 31, 2012, 03:32:56 AM
I've been really noticing lately how the chief dose of transphobic bile in the world seems to be reserved for MTFs - it does seem like these transphobes just can't deal with "men not wanting to be men", but don't much care about women in comparison (in much the same way as with gay vs. lesbian issues). I wonder why that is.
I'm curious to know whether the LDS has a similar position on the "evilness" of FTM transition?
I have an aunt who could very well be such a person. I truly don't know if she could be lesbian or otherwise. She dresses and cuts her hair in a very masculine way. But she is very loyal to her beliefs and has not strayed. So in that respect, I see nothing remarkable. But I would suspect that the church would excommunicate anyone who goes all the way.
I was exed after I had my ears pierced and started using the women's restroom on an unused floor in our office building (long story.. which I've told a million times here). I don't think that they'd do anything to an FTM having chest surgery. I think that an FTM would need to have the bottom surgery as well before excommunication.
Arch, I'm glad that Chaz came out. He's brought the public's attention to us and as THEY say: Any publicity is good publicity.
Thanks for sharing Cindi. I hope I didn't re-traumatize you. People who haven't been acculturated don't understand how painful it can be to leave even when you know it's the right thing to do.
Quote from: Cindi Jones on July 31, 2012, 03:38:01 AM
Yes, Madeline,
I got much of that in my excommunication letter.
I haven't got mine yet, but I expect it will be a scarlet 'T'.
Quote...a future president
Shudder.
QuoteThey beat me down mentally, cut me off, and then wouldn't leave me alone for years as they tried to get me to come back. Go figure. They told me I was well-loved. Hey, you can kill someone with love like that! ;)
Too true. One of my mission companions suicided a few years after we got back to Utah; he got a lot of that kind of love I'm afraid. His family covered everything up, one of those families who still has the hand carts they came in on. I had always believed he was gay or possibly transgender but it wasn't something one talked about, and then it was too late.
QuoteI do miss the social aspects... sort of. They don't do social things any more. It's just a block of indoctrination every Sunday. Whatever happened to the dances, mutual, roadshows, and pot luck dinners?
If I recall, those went away as part of the same process that drove out almost all female influences in the running of the church, and with the subsequent cracking down on gay people, feminists, and intellectuals. Good old "correlation".
One of the things that kept it lively back in the day, was that it was a fully formed alternative culture, with much of the day to day life run by an unofficial matriarchy that was a lot more fun than the "brethren". When it went corporate and legalistic under the direction of former business executives, marketing executives, bankers, and the occasional court justice, it lost a lot of the old chaotic fun.
QuoteI think that I ultimately would have divorced and left the church even if I hadn't done the transition thing. I went on a mission and everything else, but I either had to leave or do something less satisfactory. I truly was a cult member.
That's how it happened for me. I knew I was everything they hated (an intellectual, feminist, lesbian female priesthood holder who believes in critical thinking and tolerance towards all) so when they got rid of every one I respected, I left. I was tired of feeling guilty for blowing people's minds and shaking their faith in something I could no longer try to believe in.
Quote from: MadelineB on July 30, 2012, 12:43:55 AM
-
-So how does your wife like being a lesbian?
Perfectly legitimate question. MTF's ID crisis stops during transition wife's ID crisis starts.
-
Quote-Don't you think you are being incredibly selfish?
True, isn't it?
I've only read
once about an aging MTF who went into transition after her children were grown up and her wife passed away.
I found it very touching to read about her selfsacrifice not to transition during their marriage for the love of her wife.
She just didn't want cause grief to her wife.
Her wife was aware of her TS feelings during her life.
Quote from: Dahlia on July 31, 2012, 09:03:21 AM
Perfectly legitimate question. MTF's ID crisis stops during transition wife's ID crisis starts.
-
True, isn't it?
I've only read once about an aging MTF who went into transition after her children were grown up and her wife passed away.
I found it very touching to read about her selfsacrifice not to transition during their marriage for the love of her wife.
She just didn't want cause grief to her wife.
Her wife was aware of her TS feelings during her life.
You are way off; I know several. I'm not sure I accept the 'aging' bit. I'm no spring bunny but I don't need the walking frame as yet.
I feel a bit upset about your post. It is VERY misinformed about several highly prominent woman on this site.
Cindy
Quote from: MadelineB on July 31, 2012, 01:56:09 AM
BINGO! But add in a sly smile and tapping my chin thoughtfully with one of my red fingernails... MWUHAHAHAH!
Lmao!
Not many people can pull off an Evil Genius laugh though! I'm afraid i'm going to have to ask for proof...
:P
x
Quote from: Cindy James on July 31, 2012, 11:38:11 AM
You are way off; I know several. I'm not sure I accept the 'aging' bit. I'm no spring bunny but I don't need the walking frame as yet.
Cindy
She was in her 70's when she started her transition after her wife passed away...during a 50+ marriage.
It was an incredible unselfish, selfsacrifising thing to do; not transitioning during her marriage in order not to hurt her wife, who, after all married a man she loved.
And she loved her.
one of my guy friends i came out to, seen me wearing nail polish again, And proceeded to point and say" Oh yeah... I forgot you where a weirdo."
To wich i replied ive always been a weirdo.
It was freindly banter, but if anyone else had said it i would have knocked them out.
Quote from: Anima88 on August 02, 2012, 05:50:08 PM
one of my guy friends i came out to, seen me wearing nail polish again, And proceeded to point and say" Oh yeah... I forgot you where a weirdo."
To wich i replied ive always been a weirdo.
It was freindly banter, but if anyone else had said it i would have knocked them out.
Why be
NORMAL?
Everyone thinks I'm too normal until they actually get to know me and then they think I'm not normal.
Quote from: Violet Bloom on August 02, 2012, 07:22:32 PM
Everyone thinks I'm too normal until they actually get to know me and then they think I'm not normal.
LOL...there's just no pleasing some people. ;)
Let's see, things I have been hearing from my family ever since I opened the discussion with them recently:
"Just because you like guy stuff doesn't mean you're a guy."
"You definitely need medical help, but that's not the kind you need."
"I think you're just obsessing over the idea and that's making you think you are that way."
"I believe you truly believe that, but..."
"You know this goes against God."
"Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you get to change it."
"I have saggy skin and stretch marks, but you don't see me getting surgery! That's just what happens and I have to accept it."
"How would you feel if I just came up to you one day and said I'm gonna be a man? You're gonna tell me you wouldn't have a problem with that?"
"If somebody just says 'That's OK, as long as you're happy', then obviously they don't care. We say these things because we love you."
"You never did anything that made me think you were a guy."
"So what, you like girls now? Why'd you get married to a guy?"
So on and so forth...
Well, I just heard what my former in-laws think...
Being trans isn't real, it's just a symptom of a "serious mental illness". One is born either male, or female. There is no such thing as cross-gender nonsense.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 21, 2012, 02:39:38 AM
Well, I just heard what my former in-laws think...
Being trans isn't real, it's just a symptom of a "serious mental illness". One is born either male, or female. There is no such thing as cross-gender nonsense.
Then I suppose your mother-in-law wouldn't mind walking, talking, dressing, and acting like a male for a few decades since she thinks having gender identity that doesn't match appearance is "nonsense".
"That's ok we're all sinners anyway I just hope you get into Heaven."
"So which equipment do you use for sex?"
"Oh I get it, I don't get it.. huh...NOW I get it... wait.. huh?"
I have a few more to add
Uttered by a social worker when I was pregnant:
"So I don't understand, if you're a boy how did you get pregnant in the first place?"
My sister when I told her I was pregnant:
"I guess that means you're not carrying on with all that turning in to a boy stuff then?"
When I said no:
"Well we'll see, I bet you'll end up wanting to be a mummy"
From my lovely partner:
"You're all woman."
Oh dear. Hard times up ahead, methinks.
Uttered by someone who thought society had oppressed me into wanting to be male - "You don't need to change yourself, you just need to change the world."
or one I've gotten from multiple people - "If you like boys why don't you just stay a girl?"
"So... then you're gay?" Yes, but not in the way you think... ::)
Quote from: Felix on August 21, 2012, 11:36:39 PM
or one I've gotten from multiple people - "If you like boys why don't you just stay a girl?"
I've heard this sooooo many times
I've had people go as far to say that they would completely and utterly understand the whole thing if only I liked girls instead of boys
From my mom, who's pretty accepting but doesn't quite get it sometimes. "Okay, so if you're a guy, why are you painting your nails/letting your hair grow/wearing skinny jeans/other gender stereotype?"
"So it's like you're living a lie?"
And I know MTFs get more media exposure, but it's kind of weird to me how a lot of people don't realize that FTMs exist at all. Even if they're accepting.
"You're already so feminine, you'll make a great girl!" - But I guess that just means I'm passing so I can't get too upset about it.
"Wait, so you were a guy and then you changed into a girl, and now you're changing back?"
"Wait... you can do that?"
Quote from: Axélle on August 22, 2012, 01:16:37 AM
"So shouldn't you first try and test one of the neo-vaginas first, before you will go and have one yourself... (that's me pre-op on HRT at that stage) <Him, talking about 'testing' on a TS friend of mine...>
Gross bloody bastard... we long since stopped taking - also because I think he is ACDC and of course homophobic, didn't like my transitioning AT ALL.
Could not handle it.
Axélle
What do you mean: ACDC and of course homophobic?
"Is this a prank?" --> I swear, some people can be so difficult.
I got told this weekend (by someone I don't expect to know better) that I'm clearly "unsure" about my gender, because I'm wearing a denim jacket that buttons left-over-right ::).
I got asked by someone I considered a friend, "are those mommy pillows or daddy moobs", dunno why but I got so mad.
Quote from: Sylvester on August 29, 2012, 02:03:37 PM
And I know MTFs get more media exposure, but it's kind of weird to me how a lot of people don't realize that FTMs exist at all. Even if they're accepting.
"You're already so feminine, you'll make a great girl!" - But I guess that just means I'm passing so I can't get too upset about it.
"Wait, so you were a guy and then you changed into a girl, and now you're changing back?"
"Wait... you can do that?"
Haha I know right? I've had those kinds of responses too. Even doctors have assumed I'm MTF.
The very first person I came out to immediately blurted "omg I never would have guessed your boobs look so real" ...no..no...not what I meant xD
Quote from: Jeatyn on August 30, 2012, 02:29:14 PM
Haha I know right? I've had those kinds of responses too. Even doctors have assumed I'm MTF.
The very first person I came out to immediately blurted "omg I never would have guessed your boobs look so real" ...no..no...not what I meant xD
The first person I told was like "Wow, I always thought your jaw was kinda strong and your nose was a little too big for a girl, but I just assumed you got unlucky. I bet you were a handsome boy!" :laugh: I thought I was gonna pee myself I was laughing so hard. But hey, at least apparently my jaw and nose are nice and manly!
Someone told me they thought I was transitioning the other way - even though I'm 6'3" - I really didn't know what to make of that, so I took it as a compliment that they thought I started out female :).
"You're ruining your life"
"So if you like women why are you getting the "snip-snip"? I mean think about it!"
I kid you not
Quote from: Ayden on August 31, 2012, 04:33:54 AM
The first person I told was like "Wow, I always thought your jaw was kinda strong and your nose was a little too big for a girl, but I just assumed you got unlucky. I bet you were a handsome boy!" :laugh: I thought I was gonna pee myself I was laughing so hard. But hey, at least apparently my jaw and nose are nice and manly!
Jeez imagine if you were actually MTF that would have been such an insult xD people really don't think about what comes out of their mouths sometimes
My favourite bit in Not Your Mom's Trans 101 is about people thinking we want them to keep telling us how well we're "passing", yawn... I got loads of that this last weekend, but all from men. They're so weird :).
Quote from: Padma on August 31, 2012, 08:17:33 AM
My favourite bit in Not Your Mom's Trans 101 is about people thinking we want them to keep telling us how well we're "passing", yawn... I got loads of that this last weekend, but all from men. They're so weird :).
I noticed that recently, too...I know I'm not passing, but still there's people who apparently love to tell me how "feminine" I look.
At first I believed them...but then I was like...WTF? Are they blind or something?
I would MUCH rather have them say something like, "You're looking good! Definitely going in the right direction!" That's supportive and encouraging, without lying about the appearance.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 31, 2012, 04:13:53 PM
At first I believed them...but then I was like...WTF? Are they blind or something?
Yeah, coming up to a trans woman and telling her how much she passes, kinda defeats the purpose, no?
Luckily we don't need the words of these onlookers. We know we are as beautiful and feminine as we need to be.
Quote from: agfrommd on August 31, 2012, 05:09:24 PM
Yeah, coming up to a trans woman and telling her how much she passes, kinda defeats the purpose, no?
Luckily we don't need the words of these onlookers. We know we are as beautiful and feminine as we need to be.
As much as we can be, all things considered. We are who we are.
8)
*hugs*
My all-time favourite line was definitely when someone said about me: "Why can't HE just be GAY like NORMAL people?"
My friend was having an arguement with this person about transpeople, and this was his great conclusion of the situation.
I was also once at a meeting with a small political group in Iceland where I and one other transwoman were discussing the legistration of transgender rights in Iceland, and after we had been discussing the matter for a while, one of the guys stands up and says:
"Well, you are a very convincing woman."
Which I of course explained to him that I wasn't trying to be a woman, I had always been one, and this was not just some role I was trying to play. And then a while later he asked: "Is this your female voice?" to which I promptly replied: "Well, yes, I got it in the woman's section at the store. " even though I knew what he meant by that.
He pretty much looked pretty stupid infront of everyone. Which I found a bit amusing.
Lol thank you all of you for your stories.
I too have experienced the FTM/MTF mixup. A lot. So so many people think I'm on my way to female, and they try to make me feel better by complimenting my soft skin or telling me how sweet I am or whatever. I have no idea how to feel about it. :laugh:
I got a weird one last week.
From a guy, who works for me BTW. "I completely support you and I'm in no way prejudiced, but how will you take control of meetings?'
I'm still lost :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah, one look at your photo answers that question ;D.
"Are you gay? Do you want to hit on men ?"
"Most likely no"
"Well I really don't see the point"
Makes me think that for most people, life revolves around having sex.
Quote from: Cindy James on September 02, 2012, 02:29:36 AM
I got a weird one last week.
From a guy, who works for me BTW. "I completely support you and I'm in no way prejudiced, but how will you take control of meetings?'
I'm still lost :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh:
Sometimes people mean no harm but ask awkward questions like 4 year olds.
My mother asked me about my genitals and if I wanted to get surgery. When I told her that, no, the current surgery options aren't realistic enough for me, she continued to ask about my junk and how it would function and stuff. (Apparently, she thought T would make my junk disappear or something.)
I really don't want to talk to my mom about genitals.
"Gay, trans, whatever, why can't you just admit that your gay?
"Oh that's okay, I have lots of gay friends"
"A lot of gay guys like to pretend they're girls"
"This is male name, he's gay"
"Intersexed? Oh, you mean your bi-sexual?"
"Oh, I understand completely"
Quote from: V M on September 03, 2012, 06:42:05 PM
"Oh, I understand completely"
Honestly, this is the worst one anyone can say. Other people don't understand what we're going through unless they themselves went through it. Otherwise, they wouldn't ask questions.
A lot of things said by people who don't get it are often rather disparaging :-\
But after you've gone through the time and trouble of answering their questions and explaining things and they pull out with the "Oh I understand completely" bit with a sarcastic and snickering tone... The urge to launch a boot to their booty hole is oh so tempting >:-)
Not that I've ever done anything like that ::)
Quote from: switchy on September 02, 2012, 04:54:44 AM
"Are you gay? Do you want to hit on men ?"
"Most likely no"
"Well I really don't see the point"
Makes me think that for most people, life revolves around having sex.
Nah. That would be fun and productive. >:-)
Most people's lives seem to revolve around the sex they imagine OTHER PEOPLE are having.
I had someone tell me that I would never make a convincing woman since my nose was too big and my chin was too pointed. It was amusing to say "Actually, I'm going the other way. I was born female and I'm heading over to your side." His face was priceless.
Quote from: Cindy James on September 02, 2012, 02:29:36 AM
I got a weird one last week.
From a guy, who works for me BTW. "I completely support you and I'm in no way prejudiced, but how will you take control of meetings?'
I'm still lost :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Oh jeez! One look at your picture and I think you'd be the queen of the castle. :laugh: Just give him that pose and you'll be set!
Quote from: Ayden on September 03, 2012, 10:18:34 PM
I had someone tell me that I would never make a convincing woman since my nose was too big and my chin was too pointed. It was amusing to say "Actually, I'm going the other way. I was born female and I'm heading over to your side." His face was priceless.
Oh jeez! One look at your picture and I think you'd be the queen of the castle. :laugh: Just give him that pose and you'll be set!
OMG that would have been dear to see! ;D
I'm amazed by how often I get "...but have you thought about Xyz?" or even "...but have you really thought this through?" like we just shake a magic 8-ball to make our decision to completely change ::).
Then there's "but don't you think...<fill in naive assumption about why you might think you're transgender here>" to which I always reply "Well no, obviously I don't think that - otherwise I'd have said what you just said, instead of saying what I just said."
Quote from: Padma on September 04, 2012, 01:08:42 AM
I'm amazed by how often I get "...but have you thought about Xyz?" or even "...but have you really thought this through?" like we just shake a magic 8-ball to make our decision to completely change ::).
OMG this so much. People so often assume that I put no more thought into transition than I put into choosing my breakfast cereal or something. It really begs for stupid answers, honestly. :laugh:
I heard, "Who put THAT thought in your head?" the other day...as if I can't think of things myself.
::)
Yeah, I've had that - someone said about me to a friend "oh, he [sic] just got the idea off the Internet..." ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: Padma on September 04, 2012, 09:58:42 AM
Yeah, I've had that - someone said about me to a friend "oh, he [sic] just got the idea off the Internet..." ::) ::) ::)
Too strong :-\
Quote from: GendrKweer on September 03, 2012, 10:07:27 PM
Nah. That would be fun and productive. >:-)
Most people's lives seem to revolve around the sex they imagine OTHER PEOPLE are having.
:laugh:
Actually you say is very interesting
I know people mean well when they say this, but...
After I tell mention being trans, they say: "We're all just people."
What it sounds like to me: "I don't see you as a guy and don't take your identity seriously."
Quote from: Edge on September 04, 2012, 04:01:57 PM
I know people mean well when they say this, but...
After I tell mention being trans, they say: "We're all just people."
What it sounds like to me: "I don't see you as a guy and don't take your identity seriously."
One possible response:
Oh, silly me! Here I thought you were a man (woman)! How does it feel to be a person, but not a man (woman)?
I was told by several "authorities" that if I went to enough self help groups that I would want to get the surgery. My response was typically something like this:
"Would you consider getting your dick cut off after attending a dozen meetings? I haven't even attended one, and I'm ready to have mine done."
;)
Something similar to CJ, I did ask someone once if they knew of any guys who wanted their balls and tackle cut off. They replied of course not.
I just said 'I do'
"What does your wife think of that?" (Actually first heard this in a post here at Susan's).
Seems to be said a lot with the subtext of haven't you considered what this is doing to her?
As if I'd suddenly realize how hard this is on her, and finally go down to the corner druggist and get me a bottle of those Trans-B-Gone pills.
I went to the wrong shelf, and ended up with Transphobe-B-Gone pills by mistake :).
"Congratulations on being a university girl!" I've already told you I'm not a girl...
Quote from: Edge on September 04, 2012, 04:01:57 PM
I know people mean well when they say this, but...
After I tell mention being trans, they say: "We're all just people."
What it sounds like to me: "I don't see you as a guy and don't take your identity seriously."
I agree, this is a very fine line. In some cases, it can be positive - in others, it suggests that they just don't really want to truly acknowledge your gender.
I've noticed there are certain cues like tone of voice, eyes, stance, and facial expression that give clues about which it is.
Agreed. Don't know how to explain it but you can just tell.
Gah, I had to endure the most ridiculous conversation with my Sister and her husband today.
I bought my daughter a cute little tartan skirt and dressed her up in it to take her to see my sister today.
She didn't like the skirt, kept trying to take it off, it was hindering her ability to climb up on the sofa so it was annoying her.
This fact brought about a big lecture from them both about how I "have" to put her in skirts more often otherwise everyone will think I'm "trying to turn her in to a boy"
I got a whole load of crap about if teachers at preschool notice a little girl wearing "boys clothes" they will refer me to social services.
When I tried to tell them just how wrong and ridiculous that whole notion was they clarified by saying "oh no no don't get us wrong, WE don't think you're trying to make her in to a boy, but EVERYONE ELSE will"
Right sure, it's everyone elses problem, not yours.
How about this one? You're demon possessed. Let's sprinkle some Holy water on you and prayer for you that the demon may be cast out of you. (Never mind the fact that one is not showing any signs of being so. I mean after all can't I at least have some signs that I actually am possessed)
You're just possessed with more sense than them.
But at the time it was very hard and hurtful,especially when one is down at the time and it's easier to kick one in the teeth than it is to give a helping hand up.
I didn't mean to make light of your experience, sorry :(.
No problem. I got what you were saying ;)
I just felt I needed to elaberate
Whew :).
I can't imagine what it would be like to face that kind of dark certainty in people.
Don't it will help you sleep at nights. ;)
The sad part is that all to often the ones most critical forget that they themselves are far less than perfect themselves. It would be easier to take if they themselves were perfect.
All you do when you throw stones in glasshouses is to thrash your own place.
I've had a similar comment...religious-based...I've got the "I just pray to God at night and tell Him that this is in His hands."
"You never had a rebellious stage as a teen, so this is you testing out your identity and trying to stick it to the 'man'"
"This must be because you spent so much time on the Internet."
"You were just shy so you never developed properly as a woman."
"You can't know who you are, because you are good with school, not people."
"Why would you do that when you can stay a woman and have hot lesbians eating you out?" -_-
My grandpa asked me once "what kind of woman would date you?" I asked him what he meant, and he said "Well, you know, lesbians? Other transgenders?" I actually answered him honestly, saying that I wouldn't want to date a lesbian, and they wouldn't want to date me once I am far enough in transition. But I said that I would date a transgender woman, because, well, they're women just like any other. Now he thinks I am a straight woman.
And a lot of people, in general, assume that as a transgender person I will only ever be able to date other transgender people. Apparently, no cisgender person would ever be interested in me. And the only friends I will ever have are other transgender people, too. It is very annoying.
Quote from: edderkopp on September 12, 2012, 03:38:14 PM
"You never had a rebellious stage as a teen, so this is you testing out your identity and trying to stick it to the 'man'"
I don't know about all of you, but I'm not sticking it to the man. I'm sticking it to the men: the men who want me to be one of them.
Quote from: DianaP on September 12, 2012, 03:45:19 PM
I don't know about all of you, but I'm not sticking it to the man. I'm sticking it to the men: the men who want me to be one of them.
LOL! That is so, so funny...and TRUE. Men who tried their damnedest to make me one of them...and sticking it to the women who wanted those kinds of men...
How about this one "Dear you need to go to a men's confrontational support group" ::)
Quote from: edderkopp on September 12, 2012, 03:38:14 PM
My grandpa asked me once "what kind of woman would date you?" I asked him what he meant, and he said "Well, you know, lesbians? Other transgenders?" I actually answered him honestly, saying that I wouldn't want to date a lesbian, and they wouldn't want to date me once I am far enough in transition. But I said that I would date a transgender woman, because, well, they're women just like any other. Now he thinks I am a straight woman.
And a lot of people, in general, assume that as a transgender person I will only ever be able to date other transgender people. Apparently, no cisgender person would ever be interested in me. And the only friends I will ever have are other transgender people, too. It is very annoying.
I find the lesbian question interesting. I try to be active in minority communities, and I've met a number of lesbians who are interested in both lesbians and transmen. I think that's okay, but it's obviously not my decision to make. The reasons seem to vary, the most common being the shared experience and the idea that transmen are less aggressive and intense than cismen. My personal opinion though is that a lesbian dating an ftm would have to be honest about the performative aspects, the fact that dating a transman is not a lesbian activity.
To stay on topic, one of the lines I've heard a couple times now is "well we know you're not
really a man, so we don't have to change your information in the computer." This by people who are otherwise friendly and seem accepting.
Quote from: Felix on September 14, 2012, 09:52:50 PM
I find the lesbian question interesting. I try to be active in minority communities, and I've met a number of lesbians who are interested in both lesbians and transmen. I think that's okay, but it's obviously not my decision to make. The reasons seem to vary, the most common being the shared experience and the idea that transmen are less aggressive and intense than cismen. My personal opinion though is that a lesbian dating an ftm would have to be honest about the performative aspects, the fact that dating a transman is not a lesbian activity.
Many women identify as lesbian who mean "I'm only occasionally attracted to men" - in which case it doesn't seem incongruous for them to be attracted to trans men. Sometimes it's a fuzzy line, and in the end it's really defined by simply who you find attractive at the time. "lesbian activity" made me laugh, for some reason - sounds like a sporting event :).
Quote from: Padma on September 15, 2012, 03:57:42 AM
Many women identify as lesbian who mean "I'm only occasionally attracted to men" - in which case it doesn't seem incongruous for them to be attracted to trans men. Sometimes it's a fuzzy line, and in the end it's really defined by simply who you find attractive at the time. "lesbian activity" made me laugh, for some reason - sounds like a sporting event :).
Sounds like a potential Olympic Sport. But I suspect it may already be so :embarrassed: Ooops
Quote from: Cindy James on September 15, 2012, 04:09:14 AM
Sounds like a potential Olympic Sport. But I suspect it may already be so :embarrassed: Ooops
Olympians are hot. ;D
Quote from: Felix on September 15, 2012, 07:48:29 PM
Olympians are hot. ;D
I refrained from posting pics of the female olympians in the "Who do you find sexy" thread during the games because I couldn't make up my mind. Some of the Beach Volleyball players have crazy-hot bodies! And the special bond of paired female teammates - ooooooh the fantasy material!!! >:-) Excuse me a minute...
Quote from: Felix on September 15, 2012, 07:48:29 PM
Olympians are hot. ;D
Oh yeah - especially Demeter, Aphrodite, and Hermes, phwoaar! And Dionysus is drop-dead gorgeous... ;D
Quote from: Padma on September 15, 2012, 11:43:23 PM
Oh yeah - especially Demeter, Aphrodite, and Hermes, phwoaar! And Dionysus is drop-dead gorgeous... ;D
Does that make you Geek or Greek? :laugh:
Quote from: Cindy James on September 16, 2012, 02:26:34 AM
Does that make you Geek or Greek? :laugh:
Summer lovin', happened so fast...
I came out as trans to an old friend from way back in elementary school. I neglected to mention anything about sexual orientation. She responded in a strange, disjointed, and rambling message...in which she talked about understanding my attraction to women and wanting to transition because of it.
I may have said this before, but I always like the people who say that trans men are lesbians who can't accept themselves. Not sure what that makes me.
Oh, and the time an otherwise decent guy I knew in school saw me walking down the street and felt compelled to tell me that I looked like a real guy (or that he'd read me as a real guy) and that if he hadn't known otherwise, he would never have guessed. I said without thinking, "I AM a real guy." I don't usually do that unless I feel that I'm being challenged. Inside, I have a Pinocchio complex a mile wide.
When I told my general doctor I was transgendered he told me that transgender feelings were very complicated and I shouldn't come to a conclusion like that before I saw a therapist.
Really?
A therapist will know better than I do how I identify?
Quote from: agfrommd on September 16, 2012, 06:27:34 AM
When I told my general doctor I was transgendered he told me that transgender feelings were very complicated and I shouldn't come to a conclusion like that before I saw a therapist.
Really?
A therapist will know better than I do how I identify?
When I told my doctor about it he just said that I had incredible courage to make such a decision and go through it. He did not know how to locate the GID unit in social security since it is a "hidden service", but could gave me a place to start looking for.
Quote from: Abracadabra on September 16, 2012, 07:02:11 AM
"Why not stay as you were for another 10 - 14 years then you'll be dead anyway..."
Someone once told me this (except the years were 70). My answer --> "Because I don't want to die a man. If you don't like it, bite me." :P
Quote from: Abracadabra on September 16, 2012, 07:02:11 AM
"Why not stay as you were for another 10 - 14 years then you'll be dead anyway..."
And what if you're
unfortunate enough to live to a hundred? Sheesh.
Oh, I did not mention the phrases I got:
"Can't you keept it hidden as you have been doing until now?"
15 freaking years (possibly more). I hide it because I was afraid of you, dad. How much more of my life do you want me to give you?
"We should have noticed something years ago"
As you did not see anything about me in your whole life. Trying to monitorize me for years led me to keep everything to myself, from the school beatings to any problem I had.
"Are you going to leave home with a mini skirt"
Seriously tired. Only girls seem to get it, sadly. The younger they are, the better they accept it.
Here's an educational aid (snagged from a FB post) for those who might need it for the online environment:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz368%2Fhazel_eyes1911%2Fexpertonmylife.jpg&hash=8868df80db9113042ad905cde4de179ada6a264e)
You're welcome. ;)
Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 17, 2012, 12:24:57 AM
Here's an educational aid (snagged from a FB post) for those who might need it for the online environment:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1186.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz368%2Fhazel_eyes1911%2Fexpertonmylife.jpg&hash=8868df80db9113042ad905cde4de179ada6a264e)
You're welcome. ;)
Thank-you, this suits me purrrrrrrrrfectly. ;D (Cheshire grin)
That picture just made my evening :)
Quote from: ZoeNicole on September 18, 2012, 02:51:47 PM
That picture just made my evening :)
Ya me too. Thanks Beth. ;D
"You're a gay transgender? Why can't you be with a guy as the way you are as a chick?! That's f**cking stupid!"
I don't want to be a guy as a girl, because I am a boy who likes boys. Thus, I am being who I am. Like seriously, the quote from above was taken from some dumbass who tried to start something. Boy was that a good time! A few other kids who there started getting pissed at him, and yelled at him- and a kid even threatened to punch him (which as much as I wanted him to get punched, I told everyone to back off). Though it was nice to know these people were behind me, it still really hurt someone would say that to my face. :(
I was talking with someone about a woman I met. The said "is she an actual woman, or like you?" I gave him some slack since he is my 70 year old stepfather.
I got a great one earlier this week from a guy I knew back in the states. "So... does that mean your husband likes manly chicks? Like, dykes? That's why you're doing this right?"
Yup. Ya caught me. That *has* be the only reasonable reason. Clearly. ::)
So I'm only out to a few close friends, and I pass almost all the time as a young femmy gay dude. Even other gay guys usually can't tell... so it's always awkward when someone asks me why I don't date. I'm sorta afraid to answer because I don't want to open the trans can of worms, so I just say I'm going through personal stuff and don't feel like I can be with anyone right now...
Quote from: Cindy James on July 28, 2012, 03:21:39 AM
One of the funny things about that comment is that it was made by one of my managers, I'm his boss BTW, he also has a particular style of dealing with female employees, a sort of helpful and supportive but I'm a guy so I will help you girls get it right attitude, not particularly sexist but 'superior' . He has now started the same attitude with me, "Do you need some help filling out those documents?" "If you like I can check what you have done". I'm finding it hilarious; acceptance by sexism :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:.
Oh my god, that really is hilarious and wicked ;D I'm confused since I'm sort of glad for the acceptance, sort of irritated about the sexism.
The first that comes to my mind was "Oh yeah, I also had those thoughts about whether I was a boy, when I had short hair... But I let it grow and haven't had problems with my womanhood since." Yeah, relating to my situation is in every way OK, but comparing that to my situation was just plain weird. :P
The other was when I was enthusiastic about having gained more muscles. One person commented that "most of us guys don't really enjoy you girls having muscles, you know..." Well thank you for the advice, honey. :-*
Quote from: Phoeniks on October 09, 2012, 10:31:15 AM
The other was when I was enthusiastic about having gained more muscles. One person commented that "most of us guys don't really enjoy you girls having muscles, you know..." Well thank you for the advice, honey. :-*
Yes, have you noticed how often the men that pass down the judgements on our appearance assume we all want to be wanted by men? ::) Pff...
Quote from: Phoeniks on October 09, 2012, 10:31:15 AM
The other was when I was enthusiastic about having gained more muscles. One person commented that "most of us guys don't really enjoy you girls having muscles, you know..." Well thank you for the advice, honey. :-*
Self-sufficient or athletic women? Yeeeeeeesssssssss! ;D
Quote from: Padma on October 09, 2012, 10:56:12 AM
Yes, have you noticed how often the men that pass down the judgements on our appearance assume we all want to be wanted by men? ::) Pff...
I barely ever wanted to associate with them at all. I can't wait for this... ::)
Quote from: Padma on October 09, 2012, 10:56:12 AM
Yes, have you noticed how often the men that pass down the judgements on our appearance assume we all want to be wanted by men? ::) Pff...
...And in my case, wanted by men as women ;) Yea, those assumptions seem to be everywhere. Luckily, nowadays the comments feel more like a joke than anything that makes me depressed. :P
Quote from: Padma on July 28, 2012, 03:31:47 AM
I can't quote anything specific, but the worst I've had so far has been from a good friend who's polluted by 80's feminist conditioning - she's so full of assumptions about why I'm transitioning and what I want, it's like wading through cooked spinach*.
I'm really, really tired of hearing people "tell" me that I didn't grow up as a woman, so I didn't have the same experiences. Like I don't know that already. They always go on about the oppression, and I always counter by pointing out that from where I'm standing, growing up as a woman is a "privilege" I was denied, whilst at the same time being denied the "privilege" of growing up as a man who was accepted as such.
Honestly, why do people assume we haven't spent a lifetime thinking this through?
Okay, I'm over it now :).
*on reading this back, I realise this sounds a bit insane :). But I meant how spinach is thready, and clings to stuff when you're trying to get it off.
Oh, goodness, if I haven't heard enough about "privilege." Sadly this "80s feminist conditioning" you speak of is not at all 80s-restricted. By era nor by people born in it. It's true, from where we stand having the correct body for your sex is a privilege. Having that upbringing is a privilege. So why do we need to be so overly concerned with a society with which we've become consistently disillusioned and dissociated? Which brings me to the favorite lines...
"...male privilege." (All I'm going to say is that to say a FTM has male privilege is to say gender is entirely socially constructed. If that is true, how can there be such a thing as "gender identity"? Thank you, for dismissing my entire existence and identity.
(A similar one, is anything implying my sexual preferences are/have been socialized, especially w/ regards to
specific nitpicky things like preferring women to have "curves" or breasts... lol. "I know you don't think you were indoctrinated...but..." oh really? People are indoctrinated into their sexuality? Does this mean we can change them? ???)
"Why can't you just be YOU, who cares what other people think or how you look? That won't change who YOU are..."
"Why can't you just be a lesbian?"
My parents said this stuff for several months when I first came out to them. The complete disregard for the reality that your role in society is largely determined by others' perception of you, especially with things like gender (hence the tendency for trans people to isolate and withdraw), was kind of amusing... helped to offset the frustration. :P
"Why do you have to fit a heteronormative stereotype?"
I don't. Maybe it just happens that I do...or at least appear to. But unlike gender, stereotypes are ENTIRELY socially manufactured. So I'm not really bothered by the stereotype, although I am and always have been pretty overburdened, for many reasons, by the fact I fit a "stereotype" such as this one but in all other ways was born defying social norms.... so I'm too busy to have some sort of nefarious agenda, leave me alone! :P
"Does testosterone make you stupid?"
(My mom asked this fairly recently... to which I replied, "I dunno... that depends... does estrogen make you stupid with math?")
::)
"...you're supposed to care, but you don't"/"what do you mean you don't care? This was your decision"
No, it wasn't, it was someone else's. It wasn't even my
life. But somehow others' lives inherently involve mine, which I was not aware of, so please, go on....
Well, that was a mouth-full. I completely agree that sexual orientation and bodily preferences are not socially constructed. Gender's another story by all technicalities, but I'd rather not get into that.
The most despised line I've ever heard: "You just need a girlfriend."
A girlfriend won't fix all of my problems, mom! :eusa_wall:
"Maybe you are just gay".
I'm bi...
"It does not matter. Maybe you believe it but may be gay."
Apple, I can't send or reply to PMs, but send me the link please.
Quote from: DianaP on October 17, 2012, 04:40:49 PM
The most despised line I've ever heard: "You just need a girlfriend."
Not out yet but have heard this line thrown at me as a fix for just about anything about me, almost literally a cure for the common cold! Ironically I
do need a girlfriend, but one that doesn't insist I need to fundamentally change myself.
I just told her that I'd need a boyfriend after I finish school and that I would have him ravage me until the cows come home (didn't use that exact language). It shut her right up. :laugh:
The lines from my mum are some of the ones that hurt the most, some of her comments were,
"Can't you just be gay?" I just rolled my eyes & told her i've tried & didn't like it, she looked uncomfortable to hear that much info, well she did raise the subject
"You'll be an ugly woman" The response I bit back was "Well it's not stopped you from having a nice life" instead I hung up.
"They may not let you do it because you've got excema" I told her that's not going to happen & ended the call as quickly as I could, I then bought a large bottle of vodka & a pack of ciggies, 2 years of quiting down the drain & 1 year later i'm still trying to give up.
She's found it hard to come to terms with so I cut her extra slack, it's not easy because she knows what will realy get under my skin (pardon the pun)
Some comments from someone close to me,
"Who does "he" think "he's" gonna fool wearing a dress" The word "he" always has added venom
"No matter what firking around they do down there you'll always be a man" said with a sneer
"I'm not using your male name i'm using your middle name" this person has never used my middle name, not in 10 years!! I've told her enough times that I hate that name because my mother used to call me nicky as a child & it was like someone pouring salt into an open wound.
Furthermore this person never called me Nicky until I changed my name, it was always nick.
The list from this person could go on for ages as she seems to try for at least one snide comment per day, luckily she's under the weather & has lost her voice for the last 3 days.
I reported on it in my blog but it bears extraction. The "therapist" that evaluated me last week told me "I don't think you've put enough thought in your decision to transition."
Is transitioning a decision? Doesn't feel that way to me. Feels like something I'm driven to because I can no longer stand the mismatch between my insides and my outsides.
Quote from: agfrommd on October 19, 2012, 08:46:52 AM
I reported on it in my blog but it bears extraction. The "therapist" that evaluated me last week told me "I don't think you've put enough thought in your decision to transition."
Is transitioning a decision? Doesn't feel that way to me. Feels like something I'm driven to because I can no longer stand the mismatch between my insides and my outsides.
My ex told me several times that I "was destroying the family with my
choice to transition..."
Ummm...dear? It's not a choice...
To which she replied, "yeah, whatever." :(
I have head...a lot "you just do whatever you want to do and don't take anyone else into consideration!"
To which I reply, "it was a choice between transition and suicide. Which works better for you?"
I see transition as a choice, for some its a really easy choice or the most logical choice for them, but a choice nevertheless. Now having gender issues is not a choice, what you do about it certainly is in my book.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on October 19, 2012, 09:44:11 AM
To which she replied, "yeah, whatever." :(
Does she know my ex by any chance?
If I try to make a point she disagrees with then I either hear this or get the eye roll that says the same
Quote from: Jayne on October 19, 2012, 05:03:05 PM
Does she know my ex by any chance?
If I try to make a point she disagrees with then I either hear this or get the eye roll that says the same
I would rather have this than the barrage of insults I get regularly from my son's mother.
Hahaha there was this chick who asked me "Wait. How do you know? Like, how do you know you're not just a retarded girl?" It was offensive for like three seconds and then hilarious XD
"You are confused."
"You are going to be the loneliest person..."
"You are young and you are being led to feel this way."
"If you want to be treated like a guy then you have to do/stop doing X"
"If people aren't taking you seriously then you should try harder"
"You're not a boy and never will be, stop deluding yourself"
"It's all in your head"
"So what kind of bits do you have?"
"Something's missing in your life and it's not dangly bits"
So I was talking to a rider on the bus today..he's good about calling me Beth, and about half the time he's good with the pronouns...but tonight as he got off, he said "Thank you, sir".
I said, "Thank you, ma'am," and he apologized and said, "it's hard to remember when you look like a linebacker for the Rams."
???
I mean, I know I'm a big girl, but to REMIND me of it in such a blunt fashion...
Oh well. Just gotta put on my BIG GIRL panties, wipe away the tears, and drive for a TD I guess... :P
Sorry he said that hun.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on November 20, 2012, 06:50:50 PM
So I was talking to a rider on the bus today..he's good about calling me Beth, and about half the time he's good with the pronouns...but tonight as he got off, he said "Thank you, sir".
I said, "Thank you, ma'am," and he apologized and said, "it's hard to remember when you look like a linebacker for the Rams."
???
I mean, I know I'm a big girl, but to REMIND me of it in such a blunt fashion...
Oh well. Just gotta put on my BIG GIRL panties, wipe away the tears, and drive for a TD I guess... :P
Broad shoulders are a wonderful asset for a sister, a friend, or a mom-- more support to rest your head, more safe place to cry on.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on November 20, 2012, 06:50:50 PM
So I was talking to a rider on the bus today..he's good about calling me Beth, and about half the time he's good with the pronouns...but tonight as he got off, he said "Thank you, sir".
I said, "Thank you, ma'am," and he apologized and said, "it's hard to remember when you look like a linebacker for the Rams."
???
I mean, I know I'm a big girl, but to REMIND me of it in such a blunt fashion...
Oh well. Just gotta put on my BIG GIRL panties, wipe away the tears, and drive for a TD I guess... :P
It's hard to think it's a human when doesn't have a brain.
Hugs Sis
Quote from: Beth Andrea on November 20, 2012, 06:50:50 PM
Oh well. Just gotta put on my BIG GIRL panties, wipe away the tears, and drive for a TD I guess... :P
Well he obviously hasn't learned that feminine, beautiful, and sexy, come in lots of shapes and sizes.
You have all those things, so don't sweat it sister.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on November 20, 2012, 06:50:50 PM
So I was talking to a rider on the bus today..he's good about calling me Beth, and about half the time he's good with the pronouns...but tonight as he got off, he said "Thank you, sir".
I said, "Thank you, ma'am," and he apologized and said, "it's hard to remember when you look like a linebacker for the Rams."
Well, that's harsh. I don't talk to my friends about me being trans often, but they know that I am. However, one of them slipped up and said that I look like Rambo... and when I stopped crying, he gave me half of his sandwich, which led me to forget about the whole thing. I am so evil. >:-) ::)
Quote from: Apple Seed on October 17, 2012, 05:10:37 PM
"Maybe you are just gay".
I'm bi...
"It does not matter. Maybe you believe it but may be gay."
I basically went through that same kind of thing with myself, for at least the first year of taking testosterone...just a lot of aspects of my life/myself weren't lining up to the point I wondered if I was lying to myself about something, essentially it came down to "no straight cisgendered man with such a stereotypical sexuality can possibly have this many female friends and supposedly not really want to sleep with any of them.. so which is it, I don't want to admit I'm shallow, or I don't want to admit I'm gay??"
:icon_joy:
LOL. I also wondered if it had to do with being ftm, but given that more often than not what I've heard from others, is basically "I always hung out with boys as a kid, and pretty much thought of myself as one"...there are also a few cis-guys I know like this, but they're very far and few between. Maybe even more so than FTM's are. haha.
Probably just something I'd never really thought about before T/assumed was due to being socially seen as a girl/trying to be (like) one. Also this kind of deep-rooted apprehension I have about being "irrational" and it evading me completely in some way--probably because of my long history with anxiety attacks/phobias (characteristically irrational)...and the gender issues (just not really making much sense.)
Anyway...sorry for the ranting lol. Another one I can't stand is also from my parents (mostly my mom) "Men are physically active. I thought testosterone was gonna make you more like a man."
She obviously never listens when I talk about my chronic stress burnout issues, long-term nasty effects after going off (10+ years of) antidepressants, and physical pain I get lately from physical exertion. :P
I see it the way therapists probably would (and I've been to lots of those lol), you need to know when to stop looking for support where you aren't going to find it, and look elsewhere for it.
Ok, my aunt doesn't know I'm trans, but she said a joke that sounded like an ignorant comment. Note that she's actually very open-minded.
I was watching Desperate Housewives and she said, "Ugh, that show is for gay guys that want to be girls."
If only she knew.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"You're just confused and compensating because you're in a very masculine environment. It'll probably go away when you get home." This from a very close friend of mine that's normally very open-minded. Like I'm going to going to get home and be a "real man" again once I take the uniform off.
The other from my mother, my friends, and my SO: "You don't have any feminine mannerisms. You must be wrong or we would have seen signs."
Right... it's called overcompensating for a reason.. act more like a man when you feel less like one and they'll never suspect. Funny how for so many years I always worried about passing and being accepted as a man, and I never wondered why I worried about it. Until I realized I was woman. :)
Quote from: SageFox on November 24, 2012, 05:48:14 AM
Right... it's called overcompensating for a reason.. act more like a man when you feel less like one and they'll never suspect.
Wow, I do the exact same thing! :)
"That's between you and God."
I've heard that line used for various situations and even though it seems somewhat neutral, I feel like there is still a negative connotation attached to it.
"Is there anything u think about urself which makes u believe it not perfect because to me u are."
"Look at ur move as motivation female body builder and me as a tank, do i always picture this body as the one I want? no."
Exact quotes from my boyfriend.
Quote from: Two way Rain on December 14, 2012, 04:00:22 PM
"Is there anything u think about urself which makes u believe it not perfect because to me u are."
"Look at ur move as motivation female body builder and me as a tank, do i always picture this body as the one I want? no."
Exact quotes from my boyfriend.
Then he needs to learn some grammar. I don't get what he was saying. ???
Quote from: Malachite on December 14, 2012, 02:55:53 PM
"That's between you and God."
I've heard that line used for various situations and even though it seems somewhat neutral, I feel like there is still a negative connotation attached to it.
There is a negative connotation...basically they're saying, "I don't approve of what you're doing, but I don't want to appear as insensitive or intolerant, so ill just let G-d judge you."
I think the term would be "passive-aggressive."
Quote from: DianaP on December 14, 2012, 04:02:40 PM
Then he needs to learn some grammar. I don't get what he was saying. ???
Lol translation:
"Is there anything u think about urself which makes u believe it not perfect because to me u are."
=
What about yourself makes you think you're not perfect, because to me you are.
"Look at ur move as motivation female body builder and me as a tank, do i always picture this body as the one I want? no."
=
Look at your motivation to feeling this, I know you want to become stronger like I do (he used to be rather overweight a year or two ago. At the time of this message he is mostly muscle) have I always imagined my body as my favored body? no.
I have things I want to add to this, but I need to come down from the rage first.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on December 14, 2012, 04:05:02 PM
There is a negative connotation...basically they're saying, "I don't approve of what you're doing, but I don't want to appear as insensitive or intolerant, so ill just let G-d judge you."
I think the term would be "passive-aggressive."
That's
exactly how I feel when people tell me that! I just didn't know the right words to put it in.
Hang on, let me get the book ::)
"You're not a boy, so just get over yourself and learn to accept the way you are."
"No, this is not you."
"I gave birth to a girl! I know what you are!"
"What, do you think I'm going to allow you to cut your breasts off?!"
"You're so scientific. You know that injecting male hormones into a female body is harmful. You have so many other issues- why cause more?"
"Why can't you just stop this? You're killing me. I'm going to die of a heart attack because you're stressing me."
"No matter how many times you say it, this will never be true."
"I know you're not meant to be this. I just know it, don't ask me how."
"I raised you for all these years! I think I know you by now!"
"You've just put this in your head. You manipulated yourself into believing this."
"People don't go around changing their bodies like that. ...They do? Well, anyone who does that is sick!"
"Why can't you just be normal? Why do you have to be a psychotic freak?!"
"I don't believe in those kinds of people. I think they're all crazy."
"You can't just go against biology."
"You want to do this when you're 18? Go ahead. Leave, and I'll just wash my hands of you for good."
"So I'm just supposed to believe that this has been going on?"
"You haven't always been like this."
"You didn't find this out during (insert approximate time here)."
*Trigger warning?*
"Maybe your father caused this. He did cause a lot of damage when he hit you." (Nope, not going into this one.)
</trigger>
"You were just happy being a girl."
"You know, that brain tumor could be causing all of this."
"You're just putting this in your head."
"That ***hole of a boyfriend you have put this in your head. This is just to fulfill one of his sick fantasies."
"I know you haven't had the best childhood, and I think that may have caused this."
"Why are you doing this to me?!"
On parenting:
"You'll make a great mother someday!" NO.
"You have to have children! How else am I going to have grandkids?"
"How could you possibly know you don't want kids yet? Just wait and see."
"I can see it now! You'll fall in love with a professor, and the two of you will work side by side in lab coats, with the children playing in the adjacent room behind a glass safety door, and chimpanzees will take care of them and feed them with the bottle like this *makes feeding motion*. They'll have bonnets on and everything because they're trained to be nannies, since you don't like the idea of pawning children off onto other people."
So..., I want my body to be male so I can actually live my life in peace, and she wants my children to be raised by bonnet-wearing chimpanzees. And I'm the crazy one here.
But wait, there's more!
"Name one thing about you that makes you a boy."
"You know, when I was a kid, I thought about it too. But then I fell in love with a nice boy, grew out of that phase and moved on with my life."
"Why can't you just admit that you're a lesbian?"
"How do you think this could possibly make you happier?"
"I hate to tell you, but sexual orientation and gender identity are the same thing."
"Sex and gender are interchangeable."
"You're throwing your life away!"
"Do you think people are actually going to be accepting of you?"
Well, anyone else I've told has given me this general response:
"Huh, that's actually really cool."
Followed by some questions on what they should do pronoun and namewise and if and when I plan to transition by surgical means- you know, the whole nine yards, discussed as casually as the weather.
Then I have to go back to hearing this kind of thing:
"You have all these opportunities and you're giving them up for this nonsense!"
"You're never going to have a normal relationship."
"What do you think, people won't know you were born a girl?"
Now, this person claims to "love me no matter what", yet is on the opposite end of the spectrum from the accepting friends whom she says don't exist. Then she accused me of selling my ADD medication to kids in school.
Fun.
I was listening to some music at school, when someone who "didn't get it" started insulting me. Then I played a certain song pretty loud and got a laugh from everyone present, minus him, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc)
The weirdest thing I've ever heard from someone was as follows:
Person in question: "Wait, so you think you're like Optimus Prime?"
Me: "What? No, I'm Transgendered, not a Transformer. Jeez."
I kid you not. I think this person may have been inebriated at the time though. Hard to tell really, it was an online conversation. Not a long one, granted.
Why can't you just be gay
You'll never get a decent job
You'll never get a boyfriend/girlfriend
Why can't you just dress up at home so no one would know
Incidentally, rumour has it that Optimus Prime is due to become Optima Prime. Hey, it's not just guys who are into being cars.
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on December 31, 2012, 01:25:43 PMNow, this person claims to "love me no matter what", yet is on the opposite end of the spectrum from the accepting friends whom she says don't exist. Then she accused me of selling my ADD medication to kids in school.
Fun.
Reminds me of my parents. ::) I'm glad you can recognize that she's nuts and won't let her stop you.
I can't even add to this list, but so many of them are things I've heard and I've only told two people! It's like they think this is some spur of the moment thing that will pass. They try to set your mind right with all these reasons why you're not. Do they not get that everything that they could possibly think of to make me see the light is something I've tried to use on myself over the course of my life? If it was as easy as just a few one-liners I wouldn't be sitting here at my desk as a woman dying to start a transition.
Quote from: Emily52736 on January 01, 2013, 11:50:19 AM
I can't even add to this list, but so many of them are things I've heard and I've only told two people! It's like they think this is some spur of the moment thing that will pass. They try to set your mind right with all these reasons why you're not. Do they not get that everything that they could possibly think of to make me see the light is something I've tried to use on myself over the course of my life? If it was as easy as just a few one-liners I wouldn't be sitting here at my desk as a woman dying to start a transition.
I wonder if it's the basic nature of most humans..."I'm the only one who knows better!...If someone tells me something that I've never in my life thought of, it must be because that person is wrong.
I can't be wrong...that'd be scary! That would mean I'd have to think about things, and oh damn that stuff hurts!"
People who like to think usually ask questions first--open ended questions, designed to get information rather than confirm a suspicion.
But hey, that's just me...and I'm the only one who knows better! ;) LOL
Quote from: Edge on January 01, 2013, 09:35:48 AM
Reminds me of my parents. ::) I'm glad you can recognize that she's nuts and won't let her stop you.
Yeah, you know you're in loony land when your mother feels compelled to read all of your text messages when there's some personal stuff in them, yet hides hers because she's been bad-mouthing you to your father.
More stuff from the gender police: :police:
"Who do you think you're kidding with this?"
"When are you going to stop lying to yourself?"
"You'll never look like a boy. I don't care what you do, it won't make a difference because you are a GIRL."
"Why do you want to look like an ugly girl?"
"Yeah, well I don't want you to be a boy. I raised you to be a girl."
"Can't you just think what you want in your head without changing your body?"
"I'm not discussing this with you. You want to f*** up your life, go right ahead when you're 18, but I don't want to hear another word about it."
"Why aren't you normal?"
"What are you doing, looking for psychos like you online?"
"Are you looking for some lesbian cult or something?"
"Why would I take you to *that* kind of therapist? So you can manipulate them into giving you testosterone?"
"I don't give a s*** about your feelings. You aren't going to do this to me."
I'll admit something: Usually I stop listening and stare at the wall while receiving a barrage of insults :P
"
I give my mom huge credit for not freaking out when I came out to her, but she did say this:
"I never saw you as anything but male."
I think she's been a bit in denial of the signs that appeared here and there throughout my life. This comes from the same person who agreed to buy me a doll when I asked at the age of 4. I was such a great mother to that doll... ~sigh~
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on January 01, 2013, 12:35:28 PM
I'll admit something: Usually I stop listening and stare at the wall while receiving a barrage of insults :P
I usually just blank out and think about cartoons. :P
Quote from: Violet Bloom on January 01, 2013, 12:40:46 PM
I give my mom huge credit for not freaking out when I came out to her, but she did say this:
"I never saw you as anything but male."
I think she's been a bit in denial of the signs that appeared here and there throughout my life. This comes from the same person who agreed to buy me a doll when I asked at the age of 4. I was such a great mother to that doll... ~sigh~
My mother only hit me with "are you gay" and "is this my fault", so I got off pretty easy on that one. She didn't flat out say that she only thought of me as a man, but I could see it in her eyes. I think she was in denial too. There were a lot of subtle signs and I ever remember words from her own mouth to my step-father about how feminine I was when he was trying to toughen me up. She didn't know I could hear her.
Quote from: DianaP on January 01, 2013, 12:44:07 PM
I usually just blank out and think about cartoons. :P
LOL nice. Best to blank 'em out and think of the good things in life. ("I don't think you're happy enough!")
This one is always nice:
"So you're telling me that you're a man...and you like MEN? YOU'RE A GAY MAN?!" *breaks down crying and mutters something about her psycho child*
I don't even identify as anything. I just was in a relationship with someone who happened to be a guy. Geez.
Did an impression of her in a southern belle accent that ended with me falling over backwards onto the bed as if in a dead faint.
She laughed. She yelled afterwards, but she laughed. For two whole seconds.
Score. >:-)
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on January 01, 2013, 12:52:16 PM
Did an impression of her in a southern belle accent that ended with me falling over backwards onto the bed as if in a dead faint.
She laughed. She yelled afterwards, but she laughed. For two whole seconds.
Score. >:-)
I do declare that that was ever so hysterical. :laugh:
After giving my parents a letter explaining everything, my mum came in my room, tapped my head and said 'you've got a lot going round up there don't you' in a patronising tone. Then she said, 'Don't worry, you're still our daughter.'
Joey
Quote from: SageFox on November 24, 2012, 05:48:14 AM
"You're just confused and compensating because you're in a very masculine environment. It'll probably go away when you get home." This from a very close friend of mine that's normally very open-minded. Like I'm going to going to get home and be a "real man" again once I take the uniform off.
I wish it was that simple. When I'm around guys like that, which seems to be always lately, I just get kind of depressed and isolated. I end up leaving earlier than I intended because of it and guess what. When I get home, it's straight back to female. It's the only time I feel comfortable with myself. And it's also the only time I can know myself without the influence of the outside world. I think alone time is really the only time that you can really know yourself.
And I finally went through all 11 pages and I guess I can add something to this. I've been told lots of times by the couple people I've told and even several times in anonymous settings like online about all the reasons that it sucks to be a woman and why would I want to do that. Yeah, like I'm really turning my life upside down and making myself a social outcast because I believe it will be an easier life. Right.
Quote from: Emily52736 on January 01, 2013, 10:11:56 PM
Yeah, like I'm really turning my life upside down and making myself a social outcast because I believe it will be an easier life. Right.
This. So very much this. Being trans isn't a means of escaping anything but having the wrong identity and the wrong life forced on us.
Some people just don't get how much really rides on it and think it's a choice. Let me tell you, if I could choose, I wouldn't be picking a road rife with obstacles that most don't face.
I'm not doing this because I want to be somebody else. I'm doing this because I want to be free.
"Why can't you just do this on the weekends to get it out of your system?"
"Why now? You suppressed it for this long why not just suppress it for the rest of your life, so you can live a normal life?"
" How is this going to make you happy? "
" how do you know what it feels like to be a woman? You have never had a menstrual cycle!"
" Is this even accepted at your job? This can't look or be professional"
" you can never be a real woman, you'll always just be a boy with long hair in a dress!"
Just a few I heard this holiday season
A new one, from yesterday:
him--"Your name is what?!?...I've never heard of a man called 'Beth' before."
me--"That's because I'm a woman."
*long pause*
him--"Well, you sure do look like a man."
::)
So he and talked about me transitioning, and either he was being polite or whatever, but when he left he said, "Well, good luck with that."
Quote from: Jen-Jen on January 03, 2013, 08:41:38 AM
" how do you know what it feels like to be a woman? You have never had a menstrual cycle!"
Oh yeah, what if she was born sterile? :P
I respond to hateful comments with snappy retorts.
Oh wow...I never knew that a woman's entire existence consists of just one thing...her menstrual cycle!
So all other feelings and emotions and experiences don't exist for women? Well jeez what a disappointment!
LOL
To make this thread a bit less depressing, here's a line from someone that gets it. I'm a non-op trans individual, and my sister told me, ver batum, "Oh good, don't get a vagina. They are so annoying and high-maintenance." :laugh:
Quote from: DianaP on January 03, 2013, 03:33:45 PM
To make this thread a bit less depressing, here's a line from someone that gets it. I'm a non-op trans individual, and my sister told me, ver batum, "Oh good, don't get a vagina. They are so annoying and high-maintenance." :laugh:
Smart sister I know a few friends who would say the same!
In a way, so is a penis...annoying when those unexpected/unwanted erections happen....and high maintenance for how often one has to jac.....ok, let's keep it "G" :D
ETA: I don't see all these posts as depressing...I think it's interesting to see all the excuses and rationalizations people use to think we're out of our mind...and I see the subtle bits of anger in their thoughts, that we DARE to exist outside of their binary world.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 03, 2013, 03:51:55 PM
In a way, so is a penis...annoying when those unexpected/unwanted erections happen....
Oh, you can say that again. Some b**** actually had the audacity to say, "Women don't get erections, silly."
:icon_blahblah: ???... :icon_blahblah: :(... :icon_blahblah: >:(... :icon_headache: :icon_chainsaw:
And now, it's time for Quotes From the Gender Police:
"When are you going to just stop?"
"Why do you want to make my life miserable?"
"Why do you want everyone to make fun of you."
"If you do this, you'll never be anything."
"Stop bothering me with your nonsense already! You'll dress like a normal person and like it."
"Don't be so dramatic. It's not going to kill you."
"(Birth name). (Birth name)(Birth name)(Birth name)(Birth name)(Birth name)!"
"It's your name. Get used to it."
"You know, you're so smart. Why don't you use the brains God gave you and think about how ridiculous this is."
"People don't just go around changing their bodies."
"If you keep this up, I'm going to have to send you away."
"If you keep this up, I'm going to have you committed."
"I'm taking you to a psychiatrist so we can find out what's really wrong with you, not this bull****."
"Yeah, well I don't believe that this is the problem."
"What do you think you're accomplishing by doing this? You're just using it as a way to escape because you think it'll make you happier."
"Why do you have to be crazy?"
"What should I do, burn all these pictures of my DAUGHTER?"
"Any doctor who would allow you to do this is a quack doctor. Only some kind of a maniac would let people do something like that."
"You just have body image issues."
"You just have low self-esteem."
This has been Quotes From the Gender Police! We look forward to seeing you next time!
"Even if you get the surgeries, they won't make you happy."
Me thinking: "How dare you tell me what will and will not make me happy....especially coming from a cisgendered person who will never understand the emotional pain I go through on a daily....heck hourly basis.
Quote from: DianaP on January 03, 2013, 03:33:45 PM
To make this thread a bit less depressing, here's a line from someone that gets it. I'm a non-op trans individual, and my sister told me, ver batum, "Oh good, don't get a vagina. They are so annoying and high-maintenance." :laugh:
I feel a bit bad for saying this, but I'd be tempted to say "wanna swap then?".
I've been presenting masculine since I was 19 - 20-ish, so...over two years.
People often comment on my appearance, usually when I'm in the presence of my dad.
"Oh, [legal name] looks so much like a boy!"
"That's because she thinks she is/wants to be one."
Makes me want to pull out what little hair I keep.
"are you still trying to be a boy?"
What a topic :) I've heard (from a L, married, friend!): "you're androgynous already. Won't you stop? You will just be some kind of freak if you don't"
Friendly fire is very hard!
She then admitted that she was "overreacting" and just "didn't know how she'd become orthodox like that". But still, damage already done.
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on January 03, 2013, 11:40:46 PM
I feel a bit bad for saying this, but I'd be tempted to say "wanna swap then?".
I would if I could, but I can't. :(
Over the weekend, I had someone tell me at length (in what he presumably thought was a supportive way) how I can't assume that people are going to comfortably relate to me as a woman. I asked him why he was assuming that I was assuming that, and he shut up.
He also tried to tell me I was "a bit sharp" with a friend when I corrected their pronoun usage about me. So I checked with the friend in question, who said "no, you were very polite about it, thanks for checking, I was happy to be corrected, and by the way, you're a great dancer..." ;D 8)
He's been taking chromosomes to be a woman overheard in a shop yesterday by someone who should have paid more attention in biology lessons!
Quote from: big kim on January 04, 2013, 07:04:33 AM
He's been taking chromosomes to be a woman overheard in a shop yesterday by someone who should have paid more attention in biology lessons!
haha :laugh:
Quote from: Padma on January 04, 2013, 06:00:05 AM
Over the weekend, I had someone tell me at length (in what he presumably thought was a supportive way) how I can't assume that people are going to comfortably relate to me as a woman. I asked him why he was assuming that I was assuming that, and he shut up.
He also tried to tell me I was "a bit sharp" with a friend when I corrected their pronoun usage about me. So I checked with the friend in question, who said "no, you were very polite about it, thanks for checking, I was happy to be corrected, and by the way, you're a great dancer..." ;D 8)
What's this 'comfortably relating' about?
Quote from: DianaP on January 03, 2013, 03:33:45 PM
To make this thread a bit less depressing, here's a line from someone that gets it. I'm a non-op trans individual, and my sister told me, ver batum, "Oh good, don't get a vagina. They are so annoying and high-maintenance." :laugh:
From many people: "You aren't getting one, are you?"
"But you aren't really a woman, those emotions you feel must be placebo"
"You just feel different because you made it, it must be your head"
Oh yes, and I got to update my response to this one:
Them: "So... you're going to have it turned inside out?"
Me: "No, it's already inside out, I want it outside in."
Quote from: Padma on January 04, 2013, 07:48:42 AM
Oh yes, and I got to update my response to this one:
Them: "So... you're going to have it turned inside out?"
Me: "No, it's already inside out, I want it outside in."
lolz this made me sit and think "wait...what?" for a far longer than it should have done. Excellent response :D
Repeatedly calling me "she" even though I introduced myself with my obviously male name and my friend keeps calling me "he" in front of him.
Giving me a speech about how powerful and great women in mythology are as if that is going to convince me that I'm actually a woman. I'm not male because I don't know that women are cool. I'm male because I'm male.
This is from another trans person. ::) Assuming I'm trying to fit into her perceived gender roles. Sorry lady, but I already fit into the role I want to: mine. She also said something about changing ourselves to fit our changed outer appearance. I have no clue why she transitioned, but I'm transitioning to make my outer appearance fit who I already am. Yes, I am going to change. That tends to happen over time and with experience. However, transitioning won't make me a completely different person neither do I want to be.
Oh yeah and my friend claimed that she and her family are ok with me being trans. Then how come they still refer to me as a girl?
Quote from: Edge on January 04, 2013, 11:35:47 AM
Oh yeah and my friend claimed that she and her family are ok with me being trans. Then how come they still refer to me as a girl?
This sort of thing bugs the hell out of me. It's not enough to simply
say you're supportive...actions speak much louder than words
Quote from: big kim on January 04, 2013, 07:04:33 AM
He's been taking chromosomes to be a woman overheard in a shop yesterday by someone who should have paid more attention in biology lessons!
Were you also eating ovaries and a uterus? :laugh:
The menstrual cycle thing I find especially facepalmy. I had menstrual cycles for like 15 years and it was intense and complicated and not fun, but it didn't gender me. If it did that then I'd be just fine and wouldn't have to take hormones or have surgeries. Even happy ciswomen I know don't appear to consider periods part of their identity any more than pragmatically.
I was talking to a good friend over steam chat and revealed I am transsexual, but I don't know if he either took it as a joke or really meant to insult me with this one:
"And then you'll change back, right?"
Now why would I want to do that?
Someone who claimed to be an ally suddenly posted an aggressive attack in my group (the one group for trans people in our city) accusing us of speaking unfavourably about cis men and saying he was glad he didn't come if there was that kind of talk going on. He then got angry with me and said that he didn't want to be part of a group that supports that kind of thing and wouldn't let him defend his gender.
1. What he was accusing us of never happened. The thing he based it on was some vague mention of one member of the group's belief in gender roles. (Fyi, I think gender roles are sexist, but his reaction to it was way over the top.)
2. Which he'd know if he was actually there. Even the person he overheard talking which he based these claims on told him he got it all wrong. You'd think he'd listen. Nope.
3. His drama could have scared people away from the one trans group in our city.
4. We're the same gender! Why does he specify cis men? I'm just as much a man as he is!
5. I'm pissed off at him for something he has actually done and that I was present for and I'm still not going to write off the whole gay community just because he's in it.
6. He's glad he didn't come? I thought he liked me and our friend at least and we were both there. Ouch.
7. I don't support gender roles and I don't like being accused of it. I just don't feel that is reason enough to kick someone out of the only trans group available to her.
Someone asked my brother "So, uh, don't you think your brother/sister is weird?" He said "No, not really." She says "But aren't you sad? Don't you miss your sister?" He said "I don't really, because it isn't like that person is dead, he's just my brother now. I'm not sad at all."
Girl legitimately could not get it.
Hey Caleb, was she blond? :laugh:
Ok, know that I'm Ecuadorian before raging over this:
-No one has any jokes about Ecuador because they don't know we exist.
-Being Ecuadorian is a joke in itself.
-Ecuadorian? You're not Mexican?
I laugh at these jokes, despite being Ecuadorian. Chris Rock makes black jokes, Christopher Titus makes white jokes, etc.
Sometimes, people are too sensitive. :P
Quote from: DianaP on January 13, 2013, 05:52:50 PM
Sometimes, people are too sensitive. :P
Nah, only blondes >:-)
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 13, 2013, 07:15:27 PM
Don't bother answering, I'm pretty sure I know your answer...more excuses.
That's exactly what my mom said about me being trans; no kidding! Wow, you must be sensitive to psychic cues too! (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Now now children no squabbling.
I got this from a woman last night. We were talking about sexual orientation.
Her: So, you are a lesbian from the waist up and straight from the waist down?
Yeah, she totally does not get much.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 13, 2013, 07:15:27 PM
Don't bother answering, I'm pretty sure I know your answer...more excuses.
I have a Jewish friend. Well, he's an atheist, but he's from a jewish family. Anyway, we call him jew and we love joking about it. He's the first who does it, don't get me wrong... it's not like we are bullying the kid. Actually, he's one of my very very very best friends of all time.
Today I took him to the train station. Right before he got in the train I told him "hey, you really don't know where this train goes, do you? Send me a postcard from Auswitz before they get you in the gas chamber!" We both laughed. Why? I don't know, it's our sense of humour. And the good thing about humour is that it's just that: humour. It's not like I'm feeding neo-nazi groups with excuses to perform an holocaust 2.0, just like I don't think Diana (or anyone from the XXI century actually) believes that blondes are actually dumber.
aw... sorry for the offtopic!
Lol, I wasn't expecting to walk back into a debate...I'm not aware of her hair colour.
Don't know if anyone else has said it yet but here's my most common line-
"If you like boys, then just stay a girl. Boys like girls!"
Being gay makes this so much more complicated to explain -_-
Quote from: Caleb. on January 13, 2013, 08:32:13 PM
Lol, I wasn't expecting to walk back into a debate...
Debate? What debate? :icon_suspicious:
By the way, how awesome would it be to wear a trench coat and a top hat while waiting in a parking lot and calling everybody "Mac?"
I said this in front of my mom and she said, "Girls don't like things like that."
Since when? ???
Quote from: Ms. OBrien VT on January 13, 2013, 07:35:45 PM
Now now children no squabbling.
I didn't expect patronizing comments from a moderator...
I guess the fact I'm offended by blond "jokes" puts me in a minority position.
I'll just shut up then.
Actually Beth I made the comment to stop the debate.
Some don't care for jokes about certain portions of the public. So please don't make jokes about any group.
10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.
Beth has stated she is offended by blonde jokes, so no more posting them.
I had a passenger the other day, whom I hadn't seen in some time...before, she and I would have whole conversations...now she just says over and over, "And He made them male and female."
:-X
Funny thing is, when I first typed this on my phone to post, somehow it came out "And Zhe made them..." I felt I should change it to be accurate to the quite...but that's got to be like a Freudian slip or something...
;D
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 14, 2013, 12:00:33 PM
I had a passenger the other day, whom I hadn't seen in some time...before, she and I would have whole conversations...now she just says over and over, "And He made them male and female."
So she is acknowledging that God made you. Since he made you both male and female (male bodied, female minded). See, she totally accepts you. ;D
I've had several recently from my parents:
This will f*** you up more than you already are.
People will think you're a freak even more.
This isn't really what you want.
I'll never accept it.
You're a girl, deal with it.
You didn't show any signs before.
You should be happy the way you were made.
What's wrong with being a girl?
This is an image thing.
You need to learn to love yourself.
Nobody will ever love you if you're half and half.
You haven't thought about this.
Joey
Some people seem to think it's a phase. I actually used to think that way, until it turned out I just started thinking about it more and more and eventually became very depressed.
They'll talk like you aren't totally aware of your own desires and problems; even a child has a basic sense of identity. It's a pretty common one, but arguing genetics is always a gold standard for people who don't get it.
Quote from: Joey4 on January 15, 2013, 06:14:39 PM
I've had several recently from my parents:
This will f*** you up more than you already are.
People will think you're a freak even more.
This isn't really what you want.
...
You need to learn to love yourself.
Nobody will ever love you if you're half and half.
You haven't thought about this.
Joey
Oh my! No one has ever said any of these things before! </snark>
At least they haven't come up with any thing original.
A wonderful young woman I care about heard these from the father she loves this week (I paraphrase):
"SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY"
I thought we already talked about this (transition) and the answer was No.
I thought you changed your mind when you started seeing a girl- don't you like her?
There is nothing wrong with you. You are just confused because those people online are filling your head with lies.
Changing is not the answer. It will hurt you more than it will help you.
Your so called friends are hurting you by encouraging you to believe this stuff.
Pray to God and he will reveal his plan to you.
God knew what he was doing when he made you a man.
You aren't seeing the big picture.
You will always be my son.
My heart goes out to my friend, but I am so amazed at her strength and her personal progress, even without family support. It isn't easy being young and trans* in the deep south, or anywhere for that matter.
It is frustrating dealing with people who call themselves allies and then say offensive things. Then they get all mad when I and/or others say it makes us feel uncomfortable and retort that we should be grateful we even have allies.
Quote from: Edge on January 17, 2013, 09:15:46 AM
It is frustrating dealing with people who call themselves allies and then say offensive things. Then they get all mad when I and/or others say it makes us feel uncomfortable and retort that we should be grateful we even have allies.
This doesn't sound like an ally. It sounds like the emotional abuse of a pimp.
Quote...being transgender isn't an issue. You weren't diagnosed with it. You chose that lifestyle because you think you'll fit in with them...
--my daughter
Quote from: Edge on January 17, 2013, 09:15:46 AM
It is frustrating dealing with people who call themselves allies and then say offensive things. Then they get all mad when I and/or others say it makes us feel uncomfortable and retort that we should be grateful we even have allies.
With
friends allies like that...
Beth I don't see why a diagnosis would matter ("...being transgender isn't an issue. You weren't diagnosed with it."). I don't know anyone who was unsure and then knew because a doctor or therapist told them. That doesn't even make sense. Especially as the medical community is changing so fast in their regard for us.
But then I could get all grrr about a lot of the responses in this thread. My gosh people are difficult. And mean. And unthinking. Even really sweet people can get pretty cruel when it comes to gender and sexuality. It's confusing.
People grasp at straws, and one of them is "If a doctor hasn't handed down a diagnosis from on high, then what you have isn't real... phew, I can pretend it's not happening." ::)
Quote from: Felix on January 17, 2013, 10:32:26 PM
Beth I don't see why a diagnosis would matter ("...being transgender isn't an issue. You weren't diagnosed with it."). I don't know anyone who was unsure and then knew because a doctor or therapist told them. That doesn't even make sense. Especially as the medical community is changing so fast in their regard for us.
But then I could get all grrr about a lot of the responses in this thread. My gosh people are difficult. And mean. And unthinking. Even really sweet people can get pretty cruel when it comes to gender and sexuality. It's confusing.
She's like her mom...if a doctor says so, then BY GOLLY it's a fact. otoh, if a dr did NOT say so, then it's all in your head.
To be honest, I'm more worried of what people say behind my back. If someone has a problem and tells me, at least I have the oportunity to argue...!
Quote from: Padma on January 17, 2013, 10:40:22 PM
People grasp at straws, and one of them is "If a doctor hasn't handed down a diagnosis from on high, then what you have isn't real... phew, I can pretend it's not happening." ::)
It's the old "tree falls in the forest" thing. If a woman realizes she's transgender and there's no psychologist around, then she's really still a man?
This is probably whiny, but...
No, I don't want my only option for a bathroom to be in a building separate from where all my classes are and that I rarely have cause to go to. Other students don't have to. Is that whiny?
Quote from: Edge on January 18, 2013, 05:52:13 PM
Is that whiny?
Not at all.
Cis people don't understand the bathroom issues until we make them understand. It doesn't sound like a big deal to have to go way out of your way to pee unless you're the one who has to do it.
There might be laws in your part of the world that protect the right to use the correct rest room.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 17, 2013, 10:52:43 PM
if a doctor says so, then BY GOLLY it's a fact. otoh, if a dr did NOT say so, then it's all in your head.
That's sort of my husband's line. He's humoring me, but has pretty much said that he's taking my 'coming out' with a grain of salt until the experts have weighed in...
Quote from: Edge on January 18, 2013, 05:52:13 PM
Is that whiny?
Not at all. My employer tried to do that. It didn't work out too well for them. >:-)
You'll never be a real man because you never had the experience of growing up as a boy.
You'll never be a real man because you'll never know what it's like to have itchy balls.
You just have exaggerated misconceptions about how hard life is for girls and you need to get over it.
You'll have an awful, miserable life as a transsexual.
You'll only ever be able to date other transsexuals; no real woman would ever want to date you.
I don't understand why you don't just take pills to deal with your periods. You don't need a hysterectomy.
You're out of luck, anyway, because no doctor would ever remove a healthy uterus.
You're not transgender because you don't automatically create male characters when you play videogames.
You're not transgender because you're not into sports and cars or other manly things.
You're not transgender because you told me once that you felt like a girl when you were a child.
Just because you're not a silly airhead doesn't mean you're not a girl! I'm not like that, and I'm fine with being a woman! You just need to spend more time around smart, sensible women instead of people like your sister.
I've always felt that I was really a man. I expected to grow up into a man, and I'm always a man in my dreams. Oh, but I'm not trans, because I'm not attracted to girls.
Quote from: Edge on January 18, 2013, 05:52:13 PM
This is probably whiny, but...
No, I don't want my only option for a bathroom to be in a building separate from where all my classes are and that I rarely have cause to go to. Other students don't have to. Is that whiny?
I was offered the use of a "unisex" bathroom...i appreciate the thought, but don't want something that could become known as "the ->-bleeped-<-" baffroom.
I'm a woman, dammit. Not a unisex.
Apparently, I can't be a woman if I disagree with most of what American feminists say. ???
Quote from: DianaP on January 18, 2013, 09:36:40 PM
Apparently, I can't be a woman if I disagree with most of what American feminists say. ???
Which American feminists? Because for every contemporary statement from someone claiming to be a feminist, and living in America, I think I could probably find a counter-statement from someone else claiming the same labels, apart from maybe a few very general statements that almost no one disagrees with?
Quote from: Elspeth on January 18, 2013, 10:25:06 PM
Which American feminists? Because for every contemporary statement from someone claiming to be a feminist, and living in America, I think I could probably find a counter-statement from someone else claiming the same labels, apart from maybe a few very general statements that almost no one disagrees with?
Are you asking for names of specific feminists? If so, that's disingenuous...generally "American feminists" are presented as being very liberal, very leftist, and are generally the ones with talk shows on TV.
We know that many people--male and female--get their opinions from what they see on TV, or read in the paper, "news magazines", etc. yet there are very few (if any) "conservative" feminists out there...except for Sarah Palin, I can't think of a single one...and we know how much the media establishment loves her.
There are general social trends...and going tit-for-tat in a game of "oh yeah well I've got more names and examples than you" does not prove or disprove a statement.
"If we knew this when you were little we could have fixed you. But now its too late and all we can do is accept you". This is what my mother tells, even now. I know she doesn't want to hurt me, but some times its too much to take in, to know that only reason she accept me was she couldn't fixed me when I was little. :(
Quote from: Elspeth on January 18, 2013, 10:25:06 PM
Which American feminists?
Umm, all of them? Go to the Dominican Republic or Saudi Arabia and look at US Census Bureau data on the "pay gap" you'll see that American women actually have little to nothing to complain about.
Yet, somehow, identifying as female means that you have to agree with everything a feminist says. I tell my mom that I don't agree with masculists either, and she tells me I'm still a guy. Double standard, much? :P
Quote from: DianaP on January 19, 2013, 10:10:44 AM
Umm, all of them? Go to the Dominican Republic or Saudi Arabia and look at US Census Bureau data on the "pay gap" you'll see that American women actually have little to nothing to complain about.
Yet, somehow, identifying as female means that you have to agree with everything a feminist says. I tell my mom that I don't agree with masculists either, and she tells me I'm still a guy. Double standard, much? :P
Just because American women have it better than women in other parts of the world doesn't mean they don't deserve to be treated better than they currently are. All women deserve to be treated as equals to men, no matter where they live.
And you don't have to agree with "everything" "a feminist" says. Feminism is a pretty broad subject and there's a lot of differing opinions on what it means to be feminist -- sometimes to the detriment of the movement. Some feminists are deeply transphobic, for example, but that doesn't mean all feminists are. Not by a long shot.
Quote from: AlexD on January 19, 2013, 01:30:50 PM
Just because American women have it better than women in other parts of the world doesn't mean they don't deserve to be treated better than they currently are. All women deserve to be treated as equals to men, no matter where they live.
I'm not saying that women don't deserve equality. All I'm saying is that American women, from a legal standpoint, have it already. Of course, there's still the US culture and individual sexists that need to be addressed. However, the government can't do anything about people's opinions, so I don't know why everyone looks to the government for a miraculous cultural cleansing that it frankly can't perform.
Anywho, does the fact that I like to do impersonations of male characters like Kermit the Frog make me a guy? Apparently, it does, according to some people. I also do an impersonation of Janice from "Friends," so I don't understand their point. ???
Quote from: DianaP on January 19, 2013, 01:41:31 PM
I'm not saying that women don't deserve equality. All I'm saying is that American women, from a legal standpoint, have it already. Of course, there's still the US culture and individual sexists that need to be addressed. However, the government can't do anything about people's opinions, so I don't know why everyone looks to the government for a miraculous cultural cleansing that it frankly can't perform.
Anywho, does the fact that I like to do impersonations of male characters like Kermit the Frog make me a guy? Apparently, it does, according to some people. I also do an impersonation of Janice from "Friends," so I don't understand their point. ???
Sexist culture is one of the hardest things to change, and no individual could ever possibly do it by themselves. Given that, you can't blame some people for hoping the government might be able to do
something. But like I said before, different feminists have different views, so it's an exaggeration to say that "everyone" looks to the government for a "miraculous cultural cleansing".
And I don't think the fact you do male impressions makes you a guy. If some people say it does, then I'm guessing it's because they don't really understand what they're talking about -- just like those who insist transwomen aren't "real" women because they've got a Y chromosome, or because they're attracted to women, or because they enjoy cars too much. It's nonsense. I've heard your impressions, by the way: you're talented!
Quote from: AlexD on January 19, 2013, 02:54:42 PM
I've heard your impressions, by the way: you're talented!
Oh, you must have heard Shawn's impressions. I never posted anything online. :P
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 19, 2013, 08:11:38 AM
Are you asking for names of specific feminists? If so, that's disingenuous...generally "American feminists" are presented as being very liberal, very leftist, and are generally the ones with talk shows on TV.
I was asking about specific positions on specific issues. I'm allergic to generalizations, so I think I'll just avoid the rest of this thread. Suffice it to say, for as long as I've been following feminist theory and debate, there have been many factions within the movement, and in many cases one faction contradicts the other, at least to some degree. So talking about feminists as a group is, to me fairly pointless. Sorry... my college advisor was a cofounder of my colllege's women's studies program. I don't see these contradictions as a weakness, only as part of what's inevitable in any non-totalitarian social movement.
Quote from: DianaP on January 19, 2013, 03:13:39 PM
Oh, you must have heard Shawn's impressions. I never posted anything online. :P
Oh, whoops. Sorry! Not sure how I managed to mix you two up.
I have a really nasty habit of killing threads by either posting something off-topic, or replying to an off-topic post...feminism, in any form, is not relevant to this thread, which is about goofy stuff people say to trans-people...
Please continue posting on-topic...for my sake and the sake of puppies and kittens everywhere...
*hugs*
:)
It would be good if qe coukd start a separate thread in the Politics forum to discuss or conplain about feminism or feminists. The topic is "Favorite Lines from people who just don't get it". Lets hear some more of those lines please. It really helps to hear them and know we arent alone in dealing with this stuff.
I will add one. I was told:
"You are a good man. You will always be a good man. But I liked you better when you weren't doing this stupid girl thing."
I often wonder if anyone 'Gets it' really
no someone only really gets it if they don't get it.
if they are not IS or trans they'll never know how it feels like, so the first thing to do is to stop being a smart### and acknowledge that you don't get it and never will. once you admit to your inability to understand can you make any criticism about the whole thing...validnquestions will be like won't it hurt your career, how will your love ones feel about it, etc. these are questions you can consider on a logical and practical level, and makes for a constructive dialog
. i tend to think the most ignorant questions are those built on one's own ethics, which by asking they are presuming you have the same set of beliefs as them (and if you are not, then you are in the wrong and should burn in hell).
When you say 'you', who are you talking to dear?
sorry i'm referring to the cis gendered person asking the questions. i assumed it would be clear from the context.
The people who don't get it don't want to!
My favorite line:
"God doesn't make mistakes."
"You just need to get a job and meet real men and real women and you'll see that your ideas about gender roles are all imagined."
The worst part is, I can see her point.
Quote from: Simon on January 20, 2013, 04:54:16 AM
My favorite line:
"God doesn't make mistakes."
And God answered, saying "I made people who think like you, didn't I? Do I have to spell it out? F A I L"
One of my favorites:
"If people think you are a girl, it doesn't make you a girl" to which I responded "exactly!".
I'm impressed with the amount of God related excuses that people give you to prevent you from transitioning... I live in Catalunya, Spain, one of the most catholic countries of Europe... but NOBODY has told me yet that I'm going against God's will...!
Quote from: Simon on January 20, 2013, 04:54:16 AM
My favorite line:
"God doesn't make mistakes."
Well if God doesn't make mistakes, then it's no mistake that your God-given gift of free will has lead you down a path to transition.
Quote from: Emily52736 on January 20, 2013, 06:03:19 PM
Well if God doesn't make mistakes, then it's no mistake that your God-given gift of free will has lead you down a path to transition.
If no one else will say it, I will: OOOOOOOH SNAP! :P
Quote from: AlexD on January 20, 2013, 01:21:19 PM
"You just need to get a job and meet real men and real women and you'll see that your ideas about gender roles are all imagined."
The worst part is, I can see her point.
How are gender
roles the issue? To the extent possible at the time, I've had roles that are usually associated with women for nearly all my adult life. What convinced me that my early identification and intuitions were correct had little to do with adopting specific roles. It had everything to do with feeling wrong about the body and hormones I was being exposed to.
I understand expressing things in terms of roles, since a lot of my early therapy experience tended to center on such issues, and for some time that was how I tended to frame things (in part because my therapist tended to fill in blanks instead of listening, but I was a willing participant in that, at least to some degree). It took time to pin down (and feel willing to express) how that was not as much the issue as I'd tended to frame it at that time.
Sorry to veer away from "favorite lines" -- I'm just curious about how the conversations between you and (I presume this is your mom speaking?) happened to focus on gender roles?
Quote from: Elspeth on January 20, 2013, 10:14:42 PM
How are gender roles the issue? To the extent possible at the time, I've had roles that are usually associated with women for nearly all my adult life. What convinced me that my early identification and intuitions were correct had little to do with adopting specific roles. It had everything to do with feeling wrong about the body and hormones I was being exposed to.
I understand expressing things in terms of roles, since a lot of my early therapy experience tended to center on such issues, and for some time that was how I tended to frame things (in part because my therapist tended to fill in blanks instead of listening, but I was a willing participant in that, at least to some degree). It took time to pin down (and feel willing to express) how that was not as much the issue as I'd tended to frame it at that time.
Sorry to veer away from "favorite lines" -- I'm just curious about how the conversations between you and (I presume this is your mom speaking?) happened to focus on gender roles?
I dunno... I've spent a long time trying to tell myself that gender is entirely a social construct in an effort to deal with being female, and I've complained a lot about gender roles and sexism to my mother. I've also got extremely little experience with social interactions, due to childhood issues, so between those two things I suppose she sees my problem as some big silly deal I've made out of nothing. Maybe it is. I dunno.
"You're just doing this for attention"
"You just do this because you're sexually frustrated"
I've gotten these recently...
Sitting at a bar with my Ex, he says "I dont think "born in the wrong body is right", doctors are wrong alot"...followed by "well, I know your happier, but its only been one year, you should think alot more before cutting a great dick off"
I really wonder if he thinks I just started thinking about this or researching it this last year...? and does he think id consider "cutting it off" if I were not SURE it is what is right for me?!
Yesterday I remembered something that happened to me 9 years ago, the first time I came out. A friend told me that I had to go and see a professional psychologist that she knew about. Apparently, that "professional" was a graphology teacher (yes, the magic therapy that can describe your character with accuracy by looking at your handrighting and your signature).
I was young and ignorant, and I didn't know that graphology was raw bull->-bleeped-<-. She told me that, according to the shape of the tail of my "G", it was clear that I was gay, and that I had to forget about sex change because "not everyone that have a sex change end up looking like Bibi Andersen". Of course I didn't want to be a supermodel, but her attitude and authority had me doubting about transitioning again. That alone didn't make me wait until now to transition, but it contributed very much to make me doubt and hide things under the rug.
So, well... now I can say that I was a victim of pseudo-science :-P
"I like masculine things. What does that make me?"
Quote from: Gen88 on January 22, 2013, 04:03:26 AM
Sitting at a bar with my Ex, he says "I dont think "born in the wrong body is right", doctors are wrong alot"...followed by "well, I know your happier, but its only been one year, you should think alot more before cutting a great dick off"
I really wonder if he thinks I just started thinking about this or researching it this last year...? and does he think id consider "cutting it off" if I were not SURE it is what is right for me?!
Classic, self-centered and selfish "ex-partner think." The thing is, partners who have no experience of gender dysphoria (or who maybe have some mild dysphoria themselves that they try to project onto us) will say this kind of thing a lot more than they will actually ask questions. I ran into this with my ex recently. We were having a long, private conversation after both of us had taken our trans son to his first two appointments with his gender issues therapist.
She was (and probably still is, since this conversation happened no more than 3 weeks ago) in the "why didn't he say this to me earlier; this is just a phase" stages of denial. I'd been having conversations with him for years that suggested to me that he might be trans. Maybe I was wrong not to give him the terms (though I did help give him some info as he was starting to ask questions). I avoided filling in the blanks too much, mainly because I didn't want to be accused of "coaching" him. And there is some sign, for instance, that she reads my greater degree of acceptance as having some other motives -- like I would wish this on any child.
I reminded her that when we were planning to have children, my greatest concern and ambivalence was about the possibility that one or more might be male. This is not something I was wishing for. I think that reminding her of that (something she remembered quite well once I mentioned it) did a lot to squash that particular unwarranted assumption. We agreed, though, that she really needs to educate herself and have some sessions alone with his therapist to start coming to grips with some of her concerns and attempts to negotiate over his identity.
"What kind of example are you setting for little kids?"
You know what, _____, you let your kids watch Looney Tunes, a cartoon in which a rabbit constantly cross-dresses and flirts with humans. If you find cross-dressing and inter-species mating to be ok, then what's wrong with me?
Quote from: DianaP on January 22, 2013, 02:42:29 PM
"What kind of example are you setting for little kids?"
You know what, _____, you let your kids watch Looney Tunes, a cartoon in which a rabbit constantly cross-dresses and flirts with humans. If you find cross-dressing and inter-species mating to be ok, then what's wrong with me?
I love this! It made me laugh! ;D
Be Yourself - a great example to set for little kids, all the way up to adults.
"Did you choose to be transgender because you think it's cool?" - Some random ->-bleeped-<- asked a friend of mine this.
And
"Gör du det här för att vara cool?" - "Do you do this to be cool?" - My ex-girlfriends father when she told him she was transgender.
I don't see the connection between "cool" and "transgender" myself.
Quote from: Sarah Blomsterhatt on January 25, 2013, 11:31:14 AM
"Did you choose to be transgender because you think it's cool?" - Some random ->-bleeped-<- asked a friend of mine this.
And
"Gör du det här för att vara cool?" - "Do you do this to be cool?" - My ex-girlfriends father when she told him she was transgender.
I don't see the connection between "cool" and "transgender" myself.
Nä speciellt coolt är det då inte iaf ???
Quote from: Carolina1983 on January 25, 2013, 11:39:57 AM
Nä speciellt coolt är det då inte iaf ???
A fellow Swede <3. Yeah, it's amazing the amount of stupid that can come out of the mouths of people with good intentions.
Quote from: Sarah Blomsterhatt on January 25, 2013, 12:00:43 PM
A fellow Swede <3. Yeah, it's amazing the amount of stupid that can come out of the mouths of people with good intentions.
Hmm...I wonder how "stupid" should be measured...cc's, cubic inches, metric tons....there's gotta be some way...
"No... I think you're just used to dressing in clothes like that, there's nothing more to it."
:D Tell that to my dysphoria, darling. (For some reason, we haven't been friends for a couple of years...)
I haven't heard this yet but I'm 99 percent positive that my mother will say something like this:
"You need to get off that computer. You stay on that computer too long and your getting these ideas from there."
When that happens, I will say, "I had these feelings long before I ever had a computer."
Quote from: Malachite on January 25, 2013, 04:02:30 PM
I haven't heard this yet but I'm 99 percent positive that my mother will say something like this:
"You need to get off that computer. You stay on that computer too long and your getting these ideas from there."
When that happens, I will say, "I had these feelings long before I ever had a computer."
\
Ack! I got this one! The Internets brainwashed me. I was so mad. I also got the "do you know any women that look like men? Maybe they looked glamorous?" -_-
Your proposed response is a good one. That you had these feelings before you used the internet. Another good one is "I've seen opinions of people who are supportive, yes, but also people who are not supportive. I've carefully considered this and I know this is the right thing."
I find that when I have the strength to be firm with people, and insist that this is something that is my decision and my decision alone, it often puts them at ease. It hasn't been that simple with some of my family, but meh.
Yes ;D
And I agree.
Quote from: Sarah Blomsterhatt on January 25, 2013, 12:00:43 PM
A fellow Swede <3. Yeah, it's amazing the amount of stupid that can come out of the mouths of people with good intentions.
I've had that from a third party who said to a friend of mine about me "He [sic] just got the idea off the Internet" - my gender incongruity predates the existence of the Internet by at least a decade, deario.
"It's because of the Internet..." is one of the first accusations by people who have NO clue about which they disagree.
In fact, it would behoove people who BLAME the internet, to maybe USE IT to learn basic facts about the people/ideas/opinions, before voicing their uninformed opinion(s).
Quote from: Padma on January 25, 2013, 08:04:03 PM
I've had that from a third party who said to a friend of mine about me "He [sic] just got the idea off the Internet" - my gender incongruity predates the existence of the Internet by at least a decade, deario.
See, I hate when people try to blame the internet. If anything, the internet probably saved my life knowing that there are others out there like me and that something can be done about this.
Quote from: Caleb. on January 25, 2013, 04:07:41 PM
\
Ack! I got this one! The Internets brainwashed me. I was so mad. I also got the "do you know any women that look like men? Maybe they looked glamorous?" -_-
Your proposed response is a good one. That you had these feelings before you used the internet. Another good one is "I've seen opinions of people who are supportive, yes, but also people who are not supportive. I've carefully considered this and I know this is the right thing."
I find that when I have the strength to be firm with people, and insist that this is something that is my decision and my decision alone, it often puts them at ease. It hasn't been that simple with some of my family, but meh.
That's the biggest thing I will try to focus on when I do come out to the rest of my family-is to be firm on my stance. That approach hasn't worked on my father, but I do think it helped when I came out to my sister. When the day comes that I will have to come out to my mom and other sister, I wish make sure I am super prepared. I may even write what I want to say on paper first.
The ones that really get to me is either "You're still a guy no matter what" or when I have "accepting" people tell me they wouldn't date me because of what my chromosomes are -_-
I blame the internet whenever I have gastric mishaps >:-)
Quote from: EmmaS on January 25, 2013, 10:39:06 PM
The ones that really get to me is either "You're still a guy no matter what" or when I have "accepting" people tell me they wouldn't date me because of what my chromosomes are -_-
I find the chromosome argument really baffling to be honest. Sure, maybe they do stay the same - but compared to how much changes? Body shape, smell, skin texture, emotional responses, some secondary sex characteristics (even more after surgeries, but even HRT...). Is someone seriously going to argue that chromosomes that can in no way be known without genetic testing outweighs all of those physical things?
Quote from: Malachite on January 25, 2013, 08:56:49 PM
See, I hate when people try to blame the internet. If anything, the internet probably saved my life That's the biggest thing I will try to focus on when I do come out to the rest of my family-is to be firm on my stance. That approach hasn't worked on my father, but I do think it helped when I came out to my sister. When the day comes that I will have to come out to my mom and other sister, I wish make sure I am super prepared. I may even write what I want to say on paper first
It's hard to be firm but it's definitely worth it. I stopped being firm at some point and it hasn't served me - not just in terms of moving my family along, but also in terms of my emotional health and self esteem.
I was asked this while coming out to a friend "Why don't you try to be happy as a guy?" "I tried that for 45 years didn't work" Was my reply.
Stepmom "Why put yourself through this you'll still be you." Yup depressed and suicidal. Was what came to mind.
Dad "I'm behind your decision, You'll always be my son" No Dad I hope some day you will see me as your daughter.
Hugs
Bethany
Quote from: Caleb. on January 26, 2013, 12:58:53 AM
I find the chromosome argument really baffling to be honest. Sure, maybe they do stay the same - but compared to how much changes? Body shape, smell, skin texture, emotional responses, some secondary sex characteristics (even more after surgeries, but even HRT...). Is someone seriously going to argue that chromosomes that can in no way be known without genetic testing outweighs all of those physical things?
That's a unique skill to be able to see people's chromosomes without the use of magnification equipment. They could make a lot of money with that skill.
When describing how annoyed I felt by having stuff like boobs (intended as an example), one of my friends said "Maybe you could just get them reduced, that might help."
(-_-) no, no it wouldn't...
"Don't think you're going to replace your sister like this."
Geez, mom, she moved 2 miles away; she isn't dead. ???
"You said it, sister!" - A friend of mine who knows I'm trans
Well, it was an honest slip-up and he apologized right after, but still :P
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on February 04, 2013, 07:59:03 PM
Well, it was an honest slip-up and he apologized right after, but still :P
Well, don't take it too personally. For example, my friends have known me for several years, so asking them to call me she instead of he overnight with no mistakes is a bit too much to ask, especially because I still look like a he. Not to mention that they call their cis female friends "dude." Makes me feel better. :)
Oh, I didn't, thus the tongue sticking out emote that I use way too often :laugh:
I don't think I've ever put anyone on the spot with these kinds of statements - I've always considered myself an ally. I try to treat those that I know are trans like everyone else (and those that I don't know, well I don't know so I don't have to try, they just get treated). Though then again I've been part of my own fair share of awkward silences, however, I'm also socially inept.
I DO have a trans friend IRL who is fairly open about being trans and I have had questions (some that are really close to some of the invasive ones listed) out of a genuine desire to 1) learn more about her, where she's been in hopes to become a closer friend, and 2) see some of what I might be looking at down the line and learn about it from someone I trust and has been there. I know my expierence won't match hers, but a little help never hurts. I've never gotten up the urge to ask them, because, most of them are none of my business.
If I ever get up the nerve, she'll probably be the first non-partner/friend I tell, because I feel like I know she'll understand.
I also mis-gendered an aquaintance once, two years ago, during a social function. I felt awful about it but couldn't stop myself once the thought had gotten in my head, I fumbled over it for probably 5 minutes before I finally got her name in my head instead of the incorrect pronoun. Two years later I still want to go up to her and apologize again.
If/When I'm ever asked any of these I'll either respond with tenderness and try to explain my viewpoint, or with snark and derision as appropriate to the tone of the conversation. Something like:
"Are you going to keep your penis?" (helpful, confused) - "Probably, although that's a rather personal question, the surgery involved is quite extensive and probably wouldn't give me what I'm looking for..." vs
"Are you going to keep your penis?" (derisive, confrontational) - "Whoa! You should at least take a girl out before you go getting that close..."
Quote from: omdorastrix on February 05, 2013, 12:59:28 PM
If/When I'm ever asked any of these I'll either respond with tenderness and try to explain my viewpoint, or with snark and derision as appropriate to the tone of the conversation. Something like:
"Are you going to keep your penis?" (helpful, confused) - "Probably, although that's a rather personal question, the surgery involved is quite extensive and probably wouldn't give me what I'm looking for..." vs
"Are you going to keep your penis?" (derisive, confrontational) - "Whoa! You should at least take a girl out before you go getting that close..."
Or.... "Of course! That's what this jar is for."
Quote from: Emily Elizabeth on February 05, 2013, 03:28:24 PM
Or.... "Of course! That's what this jar is for."
I would totally do that. :laugh:
Actually, instead, you should say, "Remember that sausage I gave you for breakfast earlier?..." Priceless! :laugh:
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 25, 2013, 08:51:35 PM
"It's because of the Internet..." is one of the first accusations by people who have NO clue about which they disagree.
In fact, it would behoove people who BLAME the internet, to maybe USE IT to learn basic facts about the people/ideas/opinions, before voicing their uninformed opinion(s).
Isn't one of the number one porn destinations transsexual porn? So, for all those millions of guys fantasizing over transsexual porn, if they are going to cross over to the dark side, then you're going to need a bigger forum!
My own personal slap in the face insult is if I tell people about being molested as a child that I'm this way because of it. To which I counter with must be an awful lot of girly altar boys and transsexual adults suffering nowadays from being molested by priests.
QuoteMy own personal slap in the face insult is if I tell people about being molested as a child that I'm this way because of it.
People just have NO IDEA how much that comment hurts...how deep it cuts. They just fling it out there like it's a "nothing statement."
:(
My Mother (who really means well but doesn't know what to say):
"Are you going to get a penis? Will it be like a real one?"
Just to trip her out I told her testosterone is making me grow one.
Her reply: "How big is it?"
My reply: "Keep asking nosy questions and I'm going to put testosterone gel in your shampoo so you can grow your own."
...she shut up. :laugh:
I think my therapist took me less seriously after I told her that I had NOT snuck into my mom's closet and wore her clothes since I was like 9.
Oh, Simon.... That was awesome. ;D
Quote from: DianaP on February 05, 2013, 06:29:41 PM
Oh, Simon.... That was awesome. ;D
Quoted for truth! I shed manly tears from laughing so hard just now.
TRIGGER WARNING- ABUSE/ASSAULT
Quote from: Beth Andrea on February 05, 2013, 05:27:40 PM
People just have NO IDEA how much that comment hurts...how deep it cuts. They just fling it out there like it's a "nothing statement."
:(
Yes I've heard the same thing from people who should have known better:
"You probably just think you are a girl because you suffered sexual abuse from a man."
Then I explained that the childhood abuse was by a straight woman. "oh". "huh?"
Related- when beginning to transition put me in touch with some of my later suppressed memories, and I remembered being raped at 12 and 13 by my mom's boyfriend who knew I was trans, my wife said later, in all seriousness:
"do you think you are transgender because you were raped?"
I answered "No, absolutely not. But it made it much harder to deal with being transgender when the first adult who acknowledged I was female, tortured and raped me because of it." Unfortunately my experience is not that uncommon; predators seek out kids who are gender variant.
Truth is, sex abuse and rape are both far more common than being transgender is. If either caused people to be transgender, then between 1 out of 4 and 1 out of 7 people would be trans. However, trans kids are much more likely to have been victimized because they are the most vulnerable children in our society.
Even though it triggers me, I always take the time to educate because the subject is so important. People don't realize how common sexual abuse and rape are, so they think that having been subject to one "rare" thing (abuse or assault) might explain the rare condition of being trans.
Quote from: DianaP on February 05, 2013, 06:29:41 PM
Oh, Simon.... That was awesome. ;D
Seconded, that was hilarious!
@MadeleineB agreed: I've had a couple of psychotherapists tell me it's statistically way more likely to be the other way round, that gender-nonconforming kids are likely to get abused - than that abuse causes any kind of gender dysphoria. But I've had that "Don't you think this is because you were abused...?" thing too. And it's because people just don't want it to be real on its own terms, I think.
Quote from: Padma on February 06, 2013, 12:57:22 AM
@MadeleineB agreed: I've had a couple of psychotherapists tell me it's statistically way more likely to be the other way round, that gender-nonconforming kids are likely to get abused - than that abuse causes any kind of gender dysphoria. But I've had that "Don't you think this is because you were abused...?" thing too. And it's because people just don't want it to be real on its own terms, I think.
I've run into the same thing before, although the abuse I had was physical and emotional only. People seem to think there's a direct link and for a lot of years, I considered it myself. The fact is the gender issues were there before the abuse. The abuse made the gender issues worse. It certainly didn't cause them.
Yes, I think abuse doesn't affect our gender identity or sexual orientation, just our relationship with them.
In my case I was sexually abused specifically because I was transgendered by a close family member. He knew I liked being dressed up and used that as an opportunity to initiate the abuse by pretending to be encouraging. It took a lot of therapy for me to get all of that out of my mouth and to stop feeling like I was "damaged goods" and not worthy of being loved. It helped me to make all the connections in my therapy to realize that this was what held me back in life, otherwise I would have probably transitioned as a teenager since I had the desire.
Same here - sorting out the mess delayed my transition by 25 years, until I felt both safe and "worthy" enough. Against all odds, here we are - we're all kind of amazing *hugs*
Quote from: Padma on February 06, 2013, 11:01:55 AM
Same here - sorting out the mess delayed my transition by 25 years, until I felt both safe and "worthy" enough. Against all odds, here we are - we're all kind of amazing *hugs*
Ditto. Took me a bit longer to just accept it, but there's still shame there. My friends are helping me get past that though :)
"Even if you get the surgeries, they won't make me happy."
Im thinking to myself: Who are YOU to tell me what will make me happy and what won't make me happy?
Quote from: Malachite on February 06, 2013, 08:48:37 PM
"Even if you get the surgeries, they won't make [you] happy."
Lol at "the surgeries." When people say that I always wonder what exactly they have in mind and how accurate it is. I have one friend who thinks that because I pass and got my name changed that I must have had "the surgery" and she doesn't really listen when I say I haven't had any that were trans-related.
"You shouldn't have got a job dealing with the public if you can't take the abuse".from someone who said they were going to report me for telling them to go **** them self after he transphobically verbally abused me when I was a bus driver.I told him to go ahead as his name and address would be on the complaint form and I would be reporting him to the police.Guess what,I never heard anything further about it!
'But women have to have a vagina.'
This from someone who claims to be open-minded and accepting.
He freaked out when I suggested that there are men with vaginas.. He really couldn't grasp that.
"Sorry, I just don't think that way." - From one of my 'friends'.
As if him thinking a certain way has anything to do with what I am. ::)
Note: this was after months where he had acted supportive of me and even switched to my female name, and female pronouns, along with encouraging a friend that was less supportive to be more supportive. So that makes this so much more annoying.
"You never had this problem before!"
"You would have never been like this if I had just kept your father away from you 10 years ago."
"All of this is from abuse."
"All of this is from the Internet."
"All of this is from that a-hole girl you met from your school who wants to be a man."
"All of this is nonsense you just put in your head."
"You can't change what you are." (No kidding -_-)
"Why can't you just accept the way you were born?"
"Why don't you want to be a woman? Why?"
"Give me one example of how you think like a man."
"The only people that will ever accept you are those psychotic freaks who think they're transgender, but they're all sick. All of them have some sort of mental illness."
"Women can do things too!"
"Hormone replacement therapy will give you cancer! Look what it did to your grandmother!" (She took a truckload of estrogen after menopause because she wanted to "feel youthful".)
"Testosterone isn't natural."
"They don't make that from yams."
"Why are you so naive?"
"Why do you believe everything on the Internet?"
"I can't leave you alone knowing that you're throwing your life away!"
"Just get over yourself."
"You know, I was so proud that you were defying all these gender stereotypes, but I can't accept this."
"You're nothing like a man. Now go shave your legs."
"You'll never be normal."
"You'll never be anything if you do this."
"Obviously, you're psychotic."
"We have to get another MRI of your head, because I think there's a massive tumor in your brain now."
"It's just self-image issues."
"You're just using this as a reason for why you're unhappy."
"You're just doing this because you don't fit in."
"If there was a test and it came back negative, would you go work this out with the therapist?" (I said if it were somehow tested, it would come back positive. I know what I am.)
"I'll make you a deal: You have one grandchild, a boy *rolls eyes*, and I'll let you be a boy."
-My mom on me being a transguy
Umm, no. Not only am I possibly infertile, but I would make a horrible dad, and on top of that she told me it would have to be a natural pregnancy. Two things: Unless someone sticks a needle up there after knocking me out, I'm not going to ever have a child in there; and if I did somehow, I would never be able to live with it.
Good job, mom. Make an insane offer to your underage kid and then tell him that he's the crazy one.
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on February 09, 2013, 01:17:06 PM
1. "Give me one example of how you think like a man."
2. "Testosterone isn't natural."
1. I think to myself, "I'm a man."
2. Tell that to dad's balls the next time you see them.
Just some snappy comebacks. :laugh:
Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
1. I think to myself, "I'm a man."
2. Tell that to dad's balls the next time you see them.
Just some snappy comebacks. :laugh:
Pffft... you never fail to crack me up, Diana! Though she spews out these lovely transphobic snippets whilst in Crazy Mode, making comebacks .5x as likely to even be heard. Now she told me there's something wrong with gay people.
Oh wait, I'm a trans guy dating a guy. By that logic, I'm double the crazy! Hooray!
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on February 09, 2013, 01:17:06 PM
"You never had this problem before!"
"You would have never been like this if I had just kept your father away from you 10 years ago."
"All of this is from abuse."
"All of this is from the Internet."
"All of this is from that a-hole girl you met from your school who wants to be a man."
"All of this is nonsense you just put in your head."
"You can't change what you are." (No kidding -_-)
"Why can't you just accept the way you were born?"
"Why don't you want to be a woman? Why?"
"Give me one example of how you think like a man."
"The only people that will ever accept you are those psychotic freaks who think they're transgender, but they're all sick. All of them have some sort of mental illness."
"Women can do things too!"
"Hormone replacement therapy will give you cancer! Look what it did to your grandmother!" (She took a truckload of estrogen after menopause because she wanted to "feel youthful".)
"Testosterone isn't natural."
"They don't make that from yams."
"Why are you so naive?"
"Why do you believe everything on the Internet?"
"I can't leave you alone knowing that you're throwing your life away!"
"Just get over yourself."
"You know, I was so proud that you were defying all these gender stereotypes, but I can't accept this."
"You're nothing like a man. Now go shave your legs."
"You'll never be normal."
"You'll never be anything if you do this."
"Obviously, you're psychotic."
"We have to get another MRI of your head, because I think there's a massive tumor in your brain now."
"It's just self-image issues."
"You're just using this as a reason for why you're unhappy."
"You're just doing this because you don't fit in."
"If there was a test and it came back negative, would you go work this out with the therapist?" (I said if it were somehow tested, it would come back positive. I know what I am.)
"I'll make you a deal: You have one grandchild, a boy *rolls eyes*, and I'll let you be a boy."
-My mom on me being a transguy
Umm, no. Not only am I possibly infertile, but I would make a horrible dad, and on top of that she told me it would have to be a natural pregnancy. Two things: Unless someone sticks a needle up there after knocking me out, I'm not going to ever have a child in there; and if I did somehow, I would never be able to live with it.
Good job, mom. Make an insane offer to your underage kid and then tell him that he's the crazy one.
I'm bored so I'm going to write why my replies would be if my mom said those things to me (if I had the courage to, that is):
"You never had this problem before!" Yes I have.
"You would have never been like this if I had just kept your father away from you 10 years ago.""All of this is from abuse."
No, I probably wouldn't have been like this if my father gave me the "Y" chromosome."
"All of this is from the Internet."I've been feeling this way long before I was introduced to the internet. All the internet has done was make me realize that I'm not alone in my thinking.
"All of this is from that a-hole girl you met from your school who wants to be a man." (Assuming I knew such a person)
Again, I've had these feelings long before I knew that person.
"All of this is nonsense you just put in your head."It's not nonsense and I didn't have to "put" it in my head. It was already there.
"You can't change what you are." (No kidding -_-)
You're right. I will always be a biological female. That won't stop me from being the man who I will become though.
"Why can't you just accept the way you were born?"Do you walk up to those who were born with a hearing impairment and have hearing devices and ask thm why can't they accept the way they were born? Do you ask those who were born without the ability to walk without assitances why can't they accept the way they were born?
"Why don't you want to be a woman? Why?"It's not a matter of "wanting". If I could be a woman and be happy, then I would be. That would save a lot of time and money, but sadly, that's not the case. I'm not a woman.
"Give me one example of how you think like a man."I don't have to prove myself to you. Go ask a man on the street to give you an example of how they think like a man.
"The only people that will ever accept you are those psychotic freaks who think they're transgender, but they're all sick. All of them have some sort of mental illness."Have you spoken to the other 6 billion people on the planet to confirm that they won't accept me?
"Women can do things too!"Of course they can! Women just don't stop doing things because I'm transgender.
"Hormone replacement therapy will give you cancer! Look what it did to your grandmother!" (She took a truckload of estrogen after menopause because she wanted to "feel youthful".)This is why all HRT should be monitered under strict doctor's care. Besides, I'm not my grandmother so her problems are not my problems.
"Testosterone isn't natural."Glasses aren't either, but people still wear them.
"They don't make that from yams."What?
"Why are you so naive?"According to Dictonary.com , the definition of "naive" is: Showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment
By this definition, you are technically naive too because you are showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement when it comes to transgender issues.
"Why do you believe everything on the Internet?"I don't believe "everything" on the internet. There are over 1 million sites and I don't have time to go through them all.
"I can't leave you alone knowing that you're throwing your life away!"I'm not throwing my life away. I'm just making decisions for myself for once.
"Just get over yourself."Okay. I will once I do what needs to be done in order for me to be happy.
"You know, I was so proud that you were defying all these gender stereotypes, but I can't accept this."It's not for you to accept.
"You're nothing like a man. Now go shave your legs."There's not one only way to be a man and I there are some women who don't shave their legs.
"You'll never be normal."Who said I wanted to be normal?
"You'll never be anything if you do this."Yes I will. I will be happy.
"Obviously, you're psychotic."Well, you had me so what does that say about you? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
"We have to get another MRI of your head, because I think there's a massive tumor in your brain now."
"It's just self-image issues."Everyone has them and deals with them differently. This is how I will deal with mine.
"You're just using this as a reason for why you're unhappy."Nope. This IS the reason why I'm unhappy.
"You're just doing this because you don't fit in."Yeah, because being transgender in this society makes you fit in like a pair of one-size-fits-all jeans.
"If there was a test and it came back negative, would you go work this out with the therapist?" (I said if it were somehow tested, it would come back positive. I know what I am.)I would work it out with a therapist whether it came back positive or negative. That is usually the first step.
"I'll make you a deal: You have one grandchild, a boy *rolls eyes*, and I'll let you be a boy."No.
Quote from: Bexi on July 28, 2012, 08:12:16 AM
"Its a phase"
Erm ... sorry to disappoint ... its not a 'phase', I won't "grow out of it"!
x
Yeah I went through that phase too, at 6, 9-12 inclusive, 14, 16, 17 and 18, 23-27, 31-36 inclusive 39 to 43 inclusive. I see a pattern here, I think the times i may not have been in that phase were the actual phase I was in... I think it's passed. :D
Quote from: AwishForXX on February 10, 2013, 01:41:52 AM
Yeah I went through that phase too, at 6, 9-12 inclusive, 14, 16, 17 and 18, 23-27, 31-36 inclusive 39 to 43 inclusive. I see a pattern here, I think the times i may not have been in that phase were the actual phase I was in... I think it's passed. :D
Hehe yeah! It's reached the point where my 'male' stage now seems to be the "phase"!
x
Well, to me, being trans is a phase. It just so happens to last a lot longer than any other phase, say, the rest of my life? :P
"Why can't you just accept the way you were born?"
Oh, we are - since we seem to have been born trans...
Here's a new one, as per an "argument" (it wasn't really one, lol) with my mom regarding my other family using my birth name:
"Well if you're going to let something as simple as a name define you..."
Well if the name is so "simple" and doesn't actually mean anything, people can use the right one then! Riiiiight? Right. -_-
Quote from: Caleb. on February 10, 2013, 04:24:35 PM
Here's a new one, as per an "argument" (it wasn't really one, lol) with my mom regarding my other family using my birth name:
"Well if you're going to let something as simple as a name define you..."
Well if the name is so "simple" and doesn't actually mean anything, people can use the right one then! Riiiiight? Right. -_-
Right, a name is so simple! JOHN, come here. MARY, over there.
And it bears no meaning to gender... Riiiight! :P
"Doormat" is a name, too...but it's not something I would want to be called...
Start calling those people by random names, see how they like it.
Yesterday from an in-law I got "Oh I'm sure it's just a phase" (yep I'm 27 I don't think so).
And then "Well what can be done to reverse it?" (meaning, reverse these insidious feelings I have!). Sigh, and he was the most progressive in-law I could think of which is why I started with him. It'll be downhill from here...
Tell him "yeah, like you being a man is just a phase."
A couple from my dad last night
- "You aren't transgendered, you haven't done anything to yourself yet, you're still a girl"
-"You talk about this way too much, you should be focusing on other things"
-"How do you expect anyone to take you seriously, you're all over the place"
-"You've always had phases, this is just another phase"
-"You're still my daughter... or kid... or whatever you are"
We aren't on speaking terms at the moment >:(
My mother:
You played Table tennis, you got bored with it. You did Archery you got bored with it. You collected stamps, you got bored with it. So many things you did you got bored with them. How do you know you will not get bored with being a woman.
Quote from: anya on February 20, 2013, 11:09:24 PM
My mother:
You played Table tennis, you got bored with it. You did Archery you got bored with it. You collected stamps, you got bored with it. So many things you did you got bored with them. How do you know you will not get bored with being a woman.
Ouch!!! I'd respond with 'Being a woman is not a fanciful hobby, this is who I am and how I feel inside'
Quote from: anya on February 20, 2013, 11:09:24 PM
My mother:
You played Table tennis, you got bored with it. You did Archery you got bored with it. You collected stamps, you got bored with it. So many things you did you got bored with them. How do you know you will not get bored with being a woman.
Tell her your bored with being a male.
In all seriousness though I cant believe anyone would say something like that. Then again after reading through this thread it's amazing how stupid some of the comments that we hear are.
Quote from: V M on February 20, 2013, 11:41:42 PM
this is who I am and how I feel inside
Those were my exact words to her. ;D
It's only a matter of will power!
Quote from: big kim on February 21, 2013, 03:14:51 AM
It's only a matter of will power!
and If you try hard enough you can change how you feel.
duhhhh.... My brain is not a computer where you can uninstall one program and install a new one.
From a girl I've known for several semesters of school:
"You never said anything about it before! You were fine with it last semester!"
In reference to my asking to not call me 'she' and my old name, ever. I've tried repeatedly explaining it to her that I was never okay with being called 'she' and my old name, and that the only reason I didn't say anything about it before is because I wasn't ready to come out to anyone.
She still refers to me with the wrong pronoun and name. So I stopped talking to her and reported her for discrimination to the Dean of Students.
Quote from: Siege on February 21, 2013, 02:15:41 PM
From a girl I've known for several semesters of school:
"You never said anything about it before! You were fine with it last semester!"
In reference to my asking to not call me 'she' and my old name, ever. I've tried repeatedly explaining it to her that I was never okay with being called 'she' and my old name, and that the only reason I didn't say anything about it before is because I wasn't ready to come out to anyone.
She still refers to me with the wrong pronoun and name. So I stopped talking to her and reported her for discrimination to the Dean of Students.
Ouch, I'm not gonna lie...she kind of deserved it.
We can only hope that she learned something from that experience...
"This is just another obsessive phase"
Are you sure you're not just really, really gay?
:icon_blahblah: ???... :icon_blahblah: :(... :icon_blahblah: :-\... :icon_blahblah: >:(... :icon_blahblah: :icon_censored: ... :icon_headache: :icon_chainsaw: ... :icon_headache: :icon_evil_laugh: ... :icon_headache: :icon_suspicious:
Quote from: DianaP on February 21, 2013, 10:31:03 PM
Are you sure you're not just really, really gay?
:icon_blahblah: ???... :icon_blahblah: :(... :icon_blahblah: :-\... :icon_blahblah: >:(... :icon_blahblah: :icon_censored: ... :icon_headache: :icon_chainsaw: ... :icon_headache: :icon_evil_laugh: ... :icon_headache: :icon_suspicious:
Oh god help I think I'm dying
Death by laughter, how cruel!
"Oh stop it, you're a girl. Just get over it."
No,
you get over it. >:(
"Just get a boyfriend already if it means that much to you."
I will, eventually, and he'll call me Diana. :P
"You've been walking your boyfriend home."
"Yeah."
"Are you a lesbian?"
I almost cracked up. Or maybe, I did; I don't remember since it was a couple of years ago. Still XD
"So you're gay then?"
Me: No, I just know in my heart that I'm a female trapped in a males physical body.
"All gay guys feel that way I'm sure, you're just gay"
:icon_userfriendly:
This hasn't been said to me, but I've heard it said to others:
"You know, changing your gender is a really big step. Why don't you try being gay first?"
"Beauty is only skin deep, but stupid is to the bone!"
-Sandy
Oh yes, because getting more practice at being what you're not is the ideal preparation for being what you are ::).
Quote from: sophieoftn on February 21, 2013, 10:21:50 PM
"This is just another obsessive phase"
I've had similar to this, even from my shrink!
"How can you be sure this isn't a temporary fixation, like the past ones you've had due to your Aspergers?"
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on February 25, 2013, 07:57:12 PM
I've had similar to this, even from my shrink!
"How can you be sure this isn't a temporary fixation, like the past ones you've had due to your Aspergers?"
This wasn't from a shrink but from a bishop who thought he understood the issue because he had supposedly seen a documentary.
A conversation today reminded me of this line when someone found out I was trans "you must like burlesque then"
Of course I like watching attractive, fit women wearing sexy clothes, like that won't make my dysphoria worse or anything ::)
Quote from: Jayne on February 26, 2013, 01:25:23 PM
A conversation today reminded me of this line when someone found out I was trans "you must like burlesque then"
Of course I like watching attractive, fit women wearing sexy clothes, like that won't make my dysphoria worse or anything ::)
I can't fathom how trans* and burlesque would even be related.
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on February 26, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
I can't fathom how trans* and burlesque would even be related.
Sort of along these lines, my brother (who is gay) recently asked me for advice on doing drag. I was like, "dude I have no idea do you see me ever wear dresses or makeup? I'm a dyke, not a queen."
But bless his heart, he's been really easy to talk to since I opened up to him about my transition.
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on February 26, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
I can't fathom how trans* and burlesque would even be related.
In the minds of the general public, transsexuals and drag queens are the same thing. DQ's are known to do the occasional burlesque show (or similar), and thus and so any and all trans people also do drag and burlesque.
Also in the mind of the general public, any male-bodied person who dresses even remotely feminine is likely a DQ.
:(
Oh well, c'est la vitamins.
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on February 26, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
I can't fathom how trans* and burlesque would even be related.
My reply was to just stand there with my mouth opening & closing like a goldfish, it's not often i'm lost for words.
Beths answer is pretty much what I concluded but it took a while to reach that conclusion.
To be fair to the man he was polite & accepting but just a little off course with this question, his other questions were all reasonable & he had no issues over my transition, I think this is why the question stumped me, it was so out of the blue
Quote from: encircle me on February 26, 2013, 04:58:47 PM
Sort of along these lines, my brother (who is gay) recently asked me for advice on doing drag. I was like, "dude I have no idea do you see me ever wear dresses or makeup? I'm a dyke, not a queen."
Right there with you :).
My mother told me : This is only a problem because you think about it too much. Why dont you try to think about something else instead?
Dad : You have never liked yourself, if you learn to do that you will be happy but this is not something that will make you feel better.
A so called friend on Xbox has gotten really touchy since I came out, he'll get stroppy at the slightest hint of innuendo nowdays.
If I mention anything trans related he interrupts with "I'm not interested in that gay s***", he goes off the deep end if he thinks anyone has hinted he's not 110% straight as in his words "he finds it offensive to be called gay", I tell him over & over that I find it offensive to be called gay as i'm a heterosexual pre-op MTF transsexual not a gay man.
After mentioning that I was suicidal last week he cut me off with his "i'm not interested" rant the other day so i've sent messages to other friends to warn them that next time we're all in the Xbox party i'm going to deliberately provoke this reaction & then give him both barrels, including the line "you're so far in the closet you're about to trip over next years xmas presents & break your arm landing in Narnia"
I'm waiting till our normal social group are all together to give him maximum humiliation & then he'll be removed from my friends list, several friends have said that when I remove him they will do the same in support.
Quote from: Jayne on February 27, 2013, 12:25:15 PM
"you're so far in the closet you're about to trip over next years xmas presents & break your arm landing in Narnia"
KABOOM!
I'm sure that there's room for some disagreement as to your approach here, but I for one am a fan of seeing a sh*t head get (figuratively) punched in the face. Good on ya.
Quote from: encircle me on February 27, 2013, 12:29:13 PM
KABOOM!
I'm sure that there's room for some disagreement as to your approach here, but I for one am a fan of seeing a sh*t head get (figuratively) punched in the face. Good on ya.
I've been patient with him for over 2yrs now but he refuses to change his ways, I told hm a few weeks ago that I find his attitude offensive mainly due to the fact that he goes mental if someone calls his sexuality into question even jokingly, his response was "I say what I want, if people don't like it they can (naughty words deleted)", he constantly makes jokes about other peoples sexual orientation & the hypocrisy winds us all up.
Even people who have known him personally for many years get angry about his attitude & many people have told him to take a hike, every person on my friends list who knows him is sure he's in the closet, it's gotten to the point that many friends set their Xbox to show they're offline & then send me & others a message that they will only join us in the party once he's gone offline.
Quote from: Jayne on February 27, 2013, 03:08:43 PM
I've been patient with him for over 2yrs now but he refuses to change his ways, I told hm a few weeks ago that I find his attitude offensive mainly due to the fact that he goes mental if someone calls his sexuality into question even jokingly, his response was "I say what I want, if people don't like it they can (naughty words deleted)", he constantly makes jokes about other peoples sexual orientation & the hypocrisy winds us all up.
Even people who have known him personally for many years get angry about his attitude & many people have told him to take a hike, every person on my friends list who knows him is sure he's in the closet, it's gotten to the point that many friends set their Xbox to show they're offline & then send me & others a message that they will only join us in the party once he's gone offline.
That guy sounds like a tool.
"You know, I always liked that you were a girl that doesn't fit the mold when it comes to gender. I was always proud of that."
So....now you're not proud because I'm a boy? Flawless logic you have there, Mom.
When I came out as FtM to one of my brothers, he tried to reassure me that he still loves & supports me by spouting this little gem...
"Don't worry, you'll always be my big sister to me"
Yeah. Let's work on changing that, shall we?
Yeah - my friend and preceptor (who ordained me as a Buddhist) said to me "Oh well, you're still just the same old Padmavyuha." yes but NO. Pay attention, fella.
As far as I'm concerned, all the talk about being "two spirited" fits in this category. Sorry, guys, but my male spirit never existed anywhere except in your imaginations. My maleness was 100% superficial. Inside, I've always been 100% female.
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on February 09, 2013, 01:17:06 PM
"You would have never been like this if I had just kept your father away from you 10 years ago."
I've gotten this one before sort of, but it was more like "Your mother messed you up" as if him trying to beat it out of me would have done any better. He tried to beat femininity out of me without knowing about the trans stuff and we all know how that turned out lol.
Quote from: sophieoftn on March 06, 2013, 06:38:00 AM
As far as I'm concerned, all the talk about being "two spirited" fits in this category. Sorry, guys, but my male spirit never existed anywhere except in your imaginations. My maleness was 100% superficial. Inside, I've always been 100% female.
And that is ok. We're all TG, whatever the explanation or understanding. We just have to be more careful about saying/implying "ALL" TG/TS are this, or that.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on March 06, 2013, 07:36:32 AM
And that is ok. We're all TG, whatever the explanation or understanding. We just have to be more careful about saying/implying "ALL" TG/TS are this, or that.
Yes, I agree --- there are some TG persons for whom "Two Spirited" hits the nail right on the head. The only issues are that, first of all, that's not the case with me --- and that it is premature to assume that someone must
automatically have both genders in their personality just because the gender they identify with doesn't agree with the body they were born with.
"I love you but I will not be at your wedding, Seeing you as the bride will be too much to bear. "
One of the most hurtful things my mother said.
Quote from: anya on March 06, 2013, 07:48:09 AM
"I love you but I will not be at your wedding, Seeing you as the bride will be too much to bear. "
One of the most hurtful things my mother said.
Wow...ouch. Sorry to hear that.
"Do you think you could stop annoying me with this $#!t? You seem to bring it up every day."
Hmm...I wonder why. Maybe it's because you say "she" and "her" as much as possible around me on purpose to upset me? I dunno.
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on March 06, 2013, 10:33:05 PM
"Do you think you could stop annoying me with this $#!t? You seem to bring it up every day."
Hmm...I wonder why. Maybe it's because you say "she" and "her" as much as possible around me on purpose to upset me? I dunno.
Sound pretty much like mother and every time we ended up fighting after this conversation. But its getting better now, still its hard to keep her on the topic, but now at least we are fighting less and she use the correct pronouns. Finally...!!!
"But you're gay."- former co-worker
"I don't think he would be a good fit for you... he's not gay!" - my landlady
"OH I know this cute guy; you'd like him, AND he's gay!!" - my cousin
"Your hands don't look very feminine." - former boss
Well my greek male chauvinistic lab manager misgendered me again in front of my staff (I'm his boss BTW), so I got angry.
Tony I'm sick of you misgendering me it is hurtful and meanspirited. 'Oh but I've known you for so long as a guy that I forget'
(Ouch) so I went for him in front of all the staff. Well next time you forget I'll cut your balls off, dip on in silver and one in gold and you can wear them as ear rings until you remember.
To the great amusement of my staff and his rather humiliated look.
Quote from: Cindy James on March 07, 2013, 12:33:24 AM
Well my greek male chauvinistic lab manager misgendered me again in front of my staff (I'm his boss BTW), so I got angry.
Tony I'm sick of you misgendering me it is hurtful and meanspirited. 'Oh but I've known you for so long as a guy that I forget'
(Ouch) so I went for him in front of all the staff. Well next time you forget I'll cut your balls off, dip on in silver and one in gold and you can wear them as ear rings until you remember.
To the great amusement of my staff and his rather humiliated look.
You go, sis!
I've got a few choice phrases in Greek I can teach you.. Mum knows a few I don't too.. >:-) The product of 2 generations of the family going to school with Greek kids.. My mum went to school with some of the parents of kids I went to school with..
Quote from: Mohini on March 07, 2013, 12:23:49 AM
"But you're gay."- former co-worker
"I don't think he would be a good fit for you... he's not gay!" - my landlady
"OH I know this cute guy; you'd like him, AND he's gay!!" - my cousin
urrrrrrrr....... I really hate it when they say this. For god's sake if I am gay I would be dating women, not men. I rather find this is one of the most offending comments. Not because they say I am gay, but because implying I am not a woman.
Quote from: anya on March 07, 2013, 01:39:43 AM
urrrrrrrr....... I really hate it when they say this. For god's sake if I am gay I would be dating women, not men. I rather find this is one of the most offending comments. Not because they say I am gay, but because implying I am not a woman.
Exactly. My mother and me:
"If that were really true, you wouldn't be dating a boy!"
"I'm a boy dating a boy, Mom."
"You know, your father was right. You're in a school of freaks."
"So what? I can be gay if I want. 95 percent of the kids I know from that place are gay or bi, so I don't see what the huge problem is with me dating a boy. And it's not even that, I just like him for who he is."
*insert tangent rant on how my boyfriend is terrible*
"...And if you want to be gay, just go date a girl already!"
"Uhh, that makes me straight."
She walked off furiously after that. I like people for who they are, not what's in their pants or under their shirts, or what should and shouldn't be. All people have a measure of beauty to them and their colors weave into the fabric of our world, sadly hidden in plain sight because people can't look past the surface.
Nothin' like a little parental love to bitch-slap us into...well, to just bitch-slap us.
I was compared to a drug addict who does unnatural substances to unnaturally alter my body. I feel disgusted and devastated after hearing and experiencing that considering who had the nerve to say this to me.
Quote from: EmmaS on March 14, 2013, 02:12:02 PM
I was compared to a drug addict who does unnatural substances to unnaturally alter my body. I feel disgusted and devastated after hearing and experiencing that considering who had the nerve to say this to me.
Oh joy, join the club...
Quote from: EmmaS on March 14, 2013, 02:12:02 PM
I was compared to a drug addict who does unnatural substances to unnaturally alter my body. I feel disgusted and devastated after hearing and experiencing that considering who had the nerve to say this to me.
God that's awful thing to say. So sorry to hear it
Not that long ago someone criticized me for having tattoos and piercings, then said they thought of transition as "just an extreme body mod." I tried to explain that one, there are plenty of trans people who aren't into body mods, and that just because I am doesn't mean that I only take T for the sake of being "different" or whatever. Of course there was no getting through to them.
@EmmaS: I've gotten that too, and it makes me feel even worse because I am a recovering addict. T has absolutely nothing in common with the substances I used to take.
"but if you like guys, why don't you stay a girl to get more guys? thats what I would do"
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: EmmaS on March 14, 2013, 02:12:02 PM
I was compared to a drug addict who does unnatural substances to unnaturally alter my body. I feel disgusted and devastated after hearing and experiencing that considering who had the nerve to say this to me.
Awful. If people are going to think "drugs" they can think of us as being like diabetics instead - we do what we do in order to stay well.
Quote from: Padma on March 16, 2013, 04:16:30 AM
Awful. If people are going to think "drugs" they can think of us as being like diabetics instead - we do what we do in order to stay well.
Sometimes I think the "think" part is the problem here.
Quote from: Elijah on March 16, 2013, 02:03:07 AM
"but if you like guys, why don't you stay a girl to get more guys? thats what I would do"
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I get this a lot. I also get "but won't you feel weird being a guy with other guys?" '-_-
"This happened because you pushed God out of your life and let Satan in. "
Actually it was someone that supposedly spoke for God (a pastor) that nearly drove me to suicide because of me being trans, that caused me to leave, not the other way around.
Quote from: Emily Elizabeth on March 16, 2013, 06:59:39 PM
"This happened because you pushed God out of your life and let Satan in. "
Actually it was someone that supposedly spoke for God (a pastor) that nearly drove me to suicide because of me being trans, that caused me to leave, not the other way around.
...Wow. People like that sicken me. Sorry you had to be exposed to that kind of ignorance.
"Can't you just keep that in your head?" Uhhh....nope. Tried that already.
"Why can't you just pretend you're a boy and have all your sick friends play along and call you Max?" If you mean living as who I am and letting my friends know that, then I'm already doing it. But if you think I'm going to keep the wrong body parts to live up to what you want, then you're only kidding yourself.
And then there's this gem:
"Dad, I don't care that you disagree with his decision; you don't call someone an it. That's demoralizing and horrible."
"Okay fine. It's just that
she doesn't look like a man or a woman."
"She? Really? He's not a girl."
"Well, that's your opinion. My opinion, and that of the rest of the scientific community, is that Chaz Bono is a woman.
She is genetically female."
*insert every profane word known to man and some known to dolphin here*
Are you kidding, Dad. Are you really kidding right now. You'll supposedly support me if some stranger with a Ph.D. says what your son has been saying, but according to your logic I'll always be female? No thanks, screw you. So done with this family, can't wait until college.
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on March 17, 2013, 12:55:24 PM
"Well, that's your opinion. My opinion, and that of the rest of the scientific community, is that Chaz Bono is a woman. She is genetically female."
Actually, the scientific community is aware that genetics aren't the be all and end all.
Quote from: Edge on March 17, 2013, 01:32:34 PM
Actually, the scientific community is aware that genetics aren't the be all and end all.
Exactly. He was saying it just to upset me, so I brought up cases that clearly went against it, and he goes off and say that I'm referencing things that have nothing to do with what I have. Because, you know, I obviously have everything in working order and nothing but normal "girl" chromosomes because he says so. Jerk >:(
Quote from: anya on March 07, 2013, 01:39:43 AM
urrrrrrrr....... I really hate it when they say this. For god's sake if I am gay I would be dating women, not men. I rather find this is one of the most offending comments. Not because they say I am gay, but because implying I am not a woman.
Exactly!!!!
Also -- those who ASSume that a guy who isn't gay isn't a match for me perpetuate one of the very attitudes that prevents people from making the introductions that could help my loneliness --- as well as causing them to make introductions that serve only to offend me.
What confuses me to no small amount, is how sooooo much of our grief, comes in the form of religious people spouting religious beliefs that have nothing beneficial for any of us here at Susan's, and then I meet so many of our group still unable to stop wanting to be one of them, (religious people and supporting the same religious beliefs).
I don't get it. Their god doesn't seem to want us, and his people sure don't seem to want us. But so many seem to be so desperately in need of joining their club.
I just don't get it. I am not interested in joining any group that wants to treat me like that.
I confounds me that any of our crowd would be so desperate to join a group with no love for them.
I keep hearing all the usual comments about 'oh my god is a god of love', and it sounds as ridiculous as the comments aimed against us from the people we are laughing at here on the thread.
God isn't a nice guy, and I would know, I spent a lot of my life in his club.
One of two things is happening when I die. Either I am right and he doesn't exist, and I can die in peace, or he does exist, and I can spit in his face before telling him I have no interest in his haven for what I had hoped I was leaving behind when I died.
I don't get all the people trying to force their way into a religion that doesn't want them.
So I was talking with a customer today...she knows I'm trans (everyone does in my world), she was asking the usual questions, how are things, family ok, when's the surgery, etc...she addressed me as Beth throughout...but when she left, she says, "Alright, thank you sir!"
ARGGGGHHHHH!!!1!!1%&;#
"Nobody will want to sleep with you." (I get far more romantic interest now than I ever did as a male).
"It's all in your mind." (Yes of course it is. Where else does gender exist?)
(From another trans woman)
'You can't be a genuine transsexual if you don't have your own hair.'
"How do you manage to pee?"
"Anyone trans is lower than a rapist or paedophile." (My father's take).
"Son I know you're having issues with your sexual orientation"
No dad. Just...no. Being transgender is not the same as being gay...
"So you want to get a sex change so that you can have sex as a girl?"
(Facepalm) No dad...there are transgender lesbians too, and some want to keep their parts. Besides, not all transgender people get a "sex change".
Later that night...
"Since you think that transgender is the same as sexual orientation"
*Hands him a pflag booklet on being transgender*
Edit- Rephrased for clarity and to match the original conversation. (I didn't know how to phrase it when I was writing it)
Quote"But I thought that you wanted to get a sex change, so that you can have sex as a girl"
OMG
*
double face palm*
It is funny (odd) that so many straight people assume that SRS is ONLY so we can experience sex as a girl...and that the only "sex" is vaginal intercourse...no wonder foreplay is unheard of (among males).
Quote from: Beth Andrea on April 04, 2013, 07:09:48 PM
OMG
*double face palm*
It is funny (odd) that so many straight people assume that SRS is ONLY so we can experience sex as a girl...and that the only "sex" is vaginal intercourse...no wonder foreplay is unheard of (among males).
What's even worse is that he assumed that I want srs...
To him transsexual = sex change...face palm.
What I wanted say to him is that "anal sex isn't just for people who are gay"...
"You're not even a sexual person. What do you need a penis for?"
Uhh...how 'bout my own sanity?
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on April 04, 2013, 09:05:00 PM
"You're not even a sexual person. What do you need a penis for?"
Uhh...how 'bout my own sanity?
If I were FTM, I'd be wondering why that person wants to know why I "need" a penis....I mean, it's none of their business, right?
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on April 04, 2013, 09:05:00 PM
"You're not even a sexual person. What do you need a penis for?"
Uhh...how 'bout my own sanity?
(Assuming the person is male)
I would respond, "What do you need a penis for?". I guess you could reverse it if the person who asked the question is female.
Conversation with a hostel worker
Him: Is that your own hair or a wig?
Me: It's a wig?
Him: Synthetic?
Me: No, human hair.
Him: Ewww! You mean you're going round wearing a wig with the hair of dead people?
Another conversation
Man: So you're planning surgery?
Me: Yes eventually.
Man: And I suppose you're donating your penis to be used in a transplant, right?
Me: Yeah, something like that.
Quote from: StellaB on April 04, 2013, 10:41:17 PM
Conversation with a hostel worker
Him: Is that your own hair or a wig?
Me: It's a wig?
Him: Synthetic?
Me: No, human hair.
Him: Ewww! You mean you're going round wearing a wig with the hair of dead people?
No, they were alive when I shaved their head...
Another conversation
Man: So you're planning surgery?
Me: Yes eventually.
Man: And I suppose you're donating your penis to be used in a transplant, right?
Me: Yeah, something like that.
Yeah, they can only transplant penises that are over 10" long...and only to people with penises less than 4"...why, do you need mine?
These have probably been posted already, but oh well.
"But you could be so pretty if you'd just put some make-up on!"
Do you know me at all, lady? The last time I had make-up on I was going as a Dalmatian for Halloween in 1997.
"Stop using that deodorant. It makes you smell like a guy."
Well, if you insist... But I'll smell much worse tomorrow.
"I wish you'd let your hair grow out a little bit. It looks better when it's down to your shoulders."
Can't tell if she doesn't like me looking masculine or if she still hates my cartilage piercings.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on April 04, 2013, 07:09:48 PM
OMG
*double face palm*
It is funny (odd) that so many straight people assume that SRS is ONLY so we can experience sex as a girl...and that the only "sex" is vaginal intercourse...no wonder foreplay is unheard of (among males).
Aye - most people seem to think of SRS the way they think of penetrative sex anyway: that anything else is "just foreplay" ::). And I've had That Conversation with a Feminist (just the once, thank goodness) which led me to have to say "Sorry, you've lost me - what does me having SRS have to do with having sex? Do you know anyone who got an artificial arm so they could masturbate better?"
Quote from: Padma on April 05, 2013, 02:02:04 AM
Aye - most people seem to think of SRS the way they think of penetrative sex anyway: that anything else is "just foreplay" ::). And I've had That Conversation with a Feminist (just the once, thank goodness) which led me to have to say "Sorry, you've lost me - what does me having SRS have to do with having sex? Do you know anyone who got an artificial arm so they could masturbate better?"
Heh. The king of this mindset was Bill Clinton, who swore blind that he did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky. Because it had been oral sex you see. He successfully argued in court that
receiving oral sex did not constitute 'sexual relations' because he wasn't actively involved. ::)
Some of us (I think I would be one) are actually more about getting rid of, as opposed to replacing something with another.
I don't want a vagina necessarily just so I can have sex as a woman, as much as I want to be rid of the male sex organs that I just don't identify with.
I'd be ok sitting to pee from a non organ to be honest.
I'd be ok having NOTHING to have sex with. I've been annoyed by a craving for sex long enough. I've likely had sex more often than all of my friends combined.
I don't have any fantasies of wearing something sexy and being ravaged by a man and used as a woman.
I have aaaaaaaabsolutely no desire to be told any of the cliches men speak when having sex.
I'd love to be able to wake, and not need sex, able to look out the window and the only thing on my mind was the weather. Able to go through the morning, and no thought of sex, the afternoon and no thought of sex, all evening long and no need of sex. All week, and all month long and no need of sex.
I think it the wife were asked, she'd likely be fine with it too. I'd be more than willing to aid her in her needs when she wanted it.
Why do I need SRS? for the same reason I take out the trash actually.
Yeah...it's really annoying. And Mother Dearest was responsible for that one. This caught me off-guard, though- I was walking with my boyfriend, and he was daring me to pick up a girl and have some sort of one night stand (but I don't do that ;-;) and I said that even if I wanted to I couldn't because a) I don't have the right equipment and b) I don't have a way of ordering something that can act as a quick fix (i.e. hard packer) until they either improve the bottom surgery technique or I break down and get it as it is.
He said to me, "Then have sex as a lesbian."
My initial reaction was just "...What?", but then he said that I'd be a lesbian if I were pursuing a girl and after a bit of "No!" "Yes." "No!" bickering, he said I'm biologically female so I'd be a lesbian. Of course, that was horribly triggering and I froze and then shut down.
We discussed that afterwards and he said he's accepting but it's confusing trying to know what is and isn't okay. I'd say calling a guy stuck in a female body and trying to lay claim to the masculinity being kept from him a lesbian in some weird hypothetical is a big no. I've already made it clear to him that I have no identification that way. Jeez.
...At least he was sorry and promised not to now that he knows better.
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on April 05, 2013, 08:16:36 PM
Yeah...it's really annoying. And Mother Dearest was responsible for that one. This caught me off-guard, though- I was walking with my boyfriend, and he was daring me to pick up a girl and have some sort of one night stand (but I don't do that ;-;) and I said that even if I wanted to I couldn't because a) I don't have the right equipment and b) I don't have a way of ordering something that can act as a quick fix (i.e. hard packer) until they either improve the bottom surgery technique or I break down and get it as it is.
He said to me, "Then have sex as a lesbian."
My initial reaction was just "...What?", but then he said that I'd be a lesbian if I were pursuing a girl and after a bit of "No!" "Yes." "No!" bickering, he said I'm biologically female so I'd be a lesbian. Of course, that was horribly triggering and I froze and then shut down.
We discussed that afterwards and he said he's accepting but it's confusing trying to know what is and isn't okay. I'd say calling a guy stuck in a female body and trying to lay claim to the masculinity being kept from him a lesbian in some weird hypothetical is a big no. I've already made it clear to him that I have no identification that way. Jeez.
...At least he was sorry and promised not to now that he knows better.
(Same thing but in reverse)
Sounds similar to how I don't/would absolutely HATE being perceived as gay if I chose a relationship with a guy.
I've met gay guys...I don't want my "parts" being played with like they do...it would just feel so wrong to have a guy do that to me.
Well I haven't really told too many people yet and for those that I've told about myself I've kind of now stopped completely to talk about anything trans related, as I've gotten sick and tired to the "accepting" comments that I've gotten, when I've told about myself:
"It's ok dear, you will always remain a son to us"
"It's ok. You will always remain xxxxx (insert the name I was given at birth) to us"
"It's ok. You know there is nothing to be ashamed of being a gay man"
Yeah thanks. Let's not ever again talk anything trans related.
"So, when's the surgery?"
...asked nearly everytime certain people see me. Not in a hurtful way, they just seem...I don't know, ignorant?
Yeah, people are obsessively fascinated about "the surgery". Even complete strangers seem to feel it's okay to make enquiries about what's between my legs and what I plan to do about that.
Last night, someone I was meeting for the first time asked me "so... which way are you going?" I assumed she just hasn't met many trans people, and was trying to make sure she didn't get it wrong.
Oh yeah. "Why haven't you had surgery yet?"
And then when I explain that it's really expensive and even if I had insurance, it wouldn't be covered: "Is it really worth that much money?"
"In another year, you can be part of *some woman's group*" No, no I can't. And even if I could, I wouldn't. On the plus side, her sister pointed out, "Victor's a guy." :) Which is great even though she does still keep calling me "she." At least now I know it's just a slip up.
"JOIN OUR WOMEN'S ENGINEERING FORUM SO THAT YOU CAN SIT DOWN AND DISCUSS ISSUES ABOUT BEING PART OF AN UNDERREPRESENTED GROUP IN THE FIELD OF ENGINEERING"
...No. Make a trans group and we'll talk.
"You're going to be injecting yourself with needles? Why would you want to do that? It isn't like you have diabetes or something. You don't need to."
They act like I'm a drug addict and I'm not even on HRT yet.
Got these gem from my dad today:
"So I guess you'll never get married, right?"
"What does that do to your life?"
"Why can't they just give you pills or something to make you feel better like you are?"
Quote from: Lrouk on April 14, 2013, 12:46:12 PM
Got these gem from my dad today:
"So I guess you'll never get married, right?" "Well, you did...so I guess there's hope for me yet."
"What does that do to your life?" "It puts me on-track to be happy about myself."
"Why can't they just give you pills or something to make you feel better like you are?" Taking pills isn't the same thing as having a penis...oh wait, do you take Viagra..?"
LOL, sorry just felt a little...snarky...today.
"You're not transgender, you don't want a penis."
"You want a penis?! Get out of here, you make me sick!"
"So wait, do you get it or..."
Or even better-
*posts a happy birthday message on someone's wall, name is clearly listed as Max*
"Aww, thanks *birth name*! :)"
AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHnonononono. I already asked you not to, you said you supported this and that I shouldn't let anyone tell me how to live and all that stuff. Now I have to grow my hair out *and* you still call me that name?
"You can use a nickname for college. How about Rena? Or I know! Rain!"
"No, it has to be derived from your legal name, I looked it up already." (Oh really?)
"Stop your nonsense already. I'll call you what I want."
"Just go back to being how you were before."
"I know you better than anyone else, even you."
"Stop throwing your life away."
"We're not discussing this anymore, this is sick and disgusting."
"No one will ever love you."
"He's just saying that because he wants to use you. He'll run in the other direction if you do anything to f**k up your body."
"You're not f**king up your body. I won't let you."
"Stop telling people, do you want everyone to know you're a freak?"
"You didn't have any signs of this at puberty."
"All those people know when they're 4 or 5."
"If you had known back then maybe it would have been different."
"Mental illness goes hand in hand with that."
"You're on 'the spectrum', that's autism not transgender s**t."
"You told me everything back then, you're lying." (Yeah okay, that's why you don't know about half the things that happened when I was little)
"If you think you're going to play your mind games on a psychiatrist and trick them into believing your little made-up stories, then you're sadly mistaken.
"You're never going to look like a real man."
frak you :c
Makes me sad to read all those comments, no matter that I've gotten to taste some of the same comments.
Still it is sad :(
The more I read this thread, the more I realize, 't r a n s i t i o n' its a word that doesn't apply to transgender people, it applies to the people around a transgender person.
I am not in transition, I am merely a person in an inconvenient form. I am not going towards being something, I went there a long ways back. I took an entire day, it happened, it's done.
I realized I was a woman. I had been unable to see it for a long time. I was in denial, not transition.
Transition, it is the process by which people slowly or even glacially come to grips with the fact I am not a guy, not in possession of a man card to offer up for silly transgressions of cliche guy behaviour. I have no desire to be called he him his mister or sir. My name is as I said it was, and calling me something else, is not appreciated. I am not your uncle, and I am not going to be a brother.
I am not suffering from a disease, a disorder, or an illness. The field of psychiatry is not nearly as clever or as smart as it sometimes likes to think it is. And I know this thanks to decades of REAL sciences that know a whole lot more. Consider this, how many of the shrinks/social workers you have met, are also skilled MDs, biologists, anthropologists, botanists, chemists, neurologists as well. Because they often seem to act like they think they are.
Some of the people I know have transitioned well. I told them, they chuckled with me, they moved on. Some thought I had a problem from a different route entirely. Some likely tuned out. I suspect some just don't care either way. My sister can't fathom calling me my new name. Oh well, I actually find myself in the same room as my sister, maybe once in a year. If I live as long as dad did, that means I might need to put up with it maybe 40 times more in my remaining life. There's a limit I will go to for things not important eh.
I tend to prefer to fret over people I see many times a week.
There really is only one response to give to people clearly not interested in us, as us, they way we wish to be treated eh. It goes something like 'piss off then' :)
Stop wasting your life trying to change people. After all, we don't like people trying to change us.
They are either with us or against us. I'm not in the mood for coping for a large swath of 'not really sure about them at the moment' type people.
They either get it, or they get left behind.
Talking about a definition of a real woman at one message board and this brain fart came up:
QuoteI don't endorse the sex/gender distinction, a trans is a trans, NOT a woman.
I seriously feel like this is one of those people who can't take their head out of their butt to listen to reason.
QuoteI don't endorse the sex/gender distinction, a trans is a trans, NOT a woman
...And a dickweed is a dickweed...
Before I had my surgery my sister said "you dont have to have surgery, you can just be gay" ::)
But on a slightly happier note while discussing my life and feelings with my mom she said she knew before i did ??? so I asked her what she meant, and she said the first time I opened my mouth, and even before, because I acted just like my sister. this has made me very happy :D and to put the cherry on the proverbial cake she has been usisng my name now to me,my sister, everyone :D
My Stepmom on a facebook post commented "I'm glad your my stepson."
Really? I know she hasn't seen me in three weeks. oh well I'll just laugh it off.
Mother "Does this mean we can talk girl stuff?"
Myself "I guess, depends what you mean?"
Mother "Like when you get your first period?"
Myself "I dont get periods"
Mother "If you turn into a girl you will and they arent fun."
Myself "I give up, obviously your a little on the ignorant side of this!"
"What the hell do you need socks in your pants for? You're not some boy ashamed of their d**k size trying to make themselves feel better."
Wait...that's a perfect way to put it! Thanks for the insight, Mom!
"Well for some people that's a lifestyle choice."
Seriously, why would I choose to feel bad about myself almost everyday and go though all the other problems that go hand in hand with being trans?
Quote from: Data Lizard on April 28, 2013, 12:34:57 PM
"Well for some people that's a lifestyle choice."
Seriously, why would I choose to feel bad about myself almost everyday and go though all the other problems that go hand in hand with being trans?
Exactly! My mom told me some people "choose" to be gay, too. That's not how it works -_-
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on April 28, 2013, 09:45:21 AM
"What the hell do you need socks in your pants for? You're not some boy ashamed of their d**k size trying to make themselves feel better."
Wait...that's a perfect way to put it! Thanks for the insight, Mom!
Haha! Me too.
Yesterday, I came across this: "I'm pansexual. I'm attracted to boys, girls, and ->-bleeped-<-s." *head desk*
Quote from: Edge on April 30, 2013, 07:00:42 AM
Haha! Me too.
Yesterday, I came across this: "I'm pansexual. I'm attracted to boys, girls, and ->-bleeped-<-s." *head desk*
Don't you just love people like that?
"You're not transsexual."
"How so?"
"Because."
"Because what?"
"Because."
"Because what?"
"Because I know."
"How do you know?"
"Because I'm your mother and I know. I'm all-knowing."
...what.
(soon-to-be-ex) Wife: You're starting a whole new life!
Me: We both are.
Her: But you're doing it out of choice.
And then there's my friend who, on finding out that I'm transitioning, said "I heard you're having sex-change surgery".
After I corrected that friend's misconception, she sent me a link where I can, in her words, "meet all kinds of people exploring their sexuality (Polyamory, kink, lifestyle, sacred sexuality, and more)"
Quote from: suzifrommd on May 18, 2013, 12:05:40 PM
After I corrected that friend's misconception, she sent me a link where I can, in her words, "meet all kinds of people exploring their sexuality (Polyamory, kink, lifestyle, sacred sexuality, and more)"
Ughhh, I hate when people do that.
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on April 14, 2013, 11:50:28 PM
"You're on 'the spectrum', that's autism not transgender s**t."
My urge to punch the person who said that is extremely high. >:(
Today, I got (from a friend);
Me: "I'll go open some more wine."
Him: "Good girl!"
Me: "I'd rather not be called a girl."
Him: "But you *are* a girl!"
Grr.
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on May 18, 2013, 07:29:49 PM
Today, I got (from a friend);
Me: "I'll go open some more wine."
Him: "Good girl!"
Me: "I'd rather not be called a girl."
Him: "But you *are* a girl!"
Grr.
Some friend
I've never really gotten any negative attention to my face. The worst I got was "Your roommate is gay isn't he? Why don't you just date him?" ... because gay men aren't attracted to people who look like girls ??
I've encountered a couple of themes in the responses I get & most of them are like water off of a ducks back but one of the conversations that frustrates me very quickly goes something like this:
"Oh you're Trans, what's you real name then?"
"My name's Jayne"
"I mean your real name"
"My real name is Jayne"
"But what's your real name?"
"I've changed my name by deed poll, my real & legal name is Jayne"
"But what name did your parents give you?"
"AAARGGHHH!!!!"
I've had many things said to me over these eight months:
My auntie said to my mum: "He is doing it because he is lonely" "I don't think he knows what he wants" "while he's wearing ladies clothes, he can't go in our car". After my mum told her on Christmas Eva that I will change completely into a female, and look nothing like Simon, my auntie said "but in the end he is still going to be wearing ladies clothes".
"Why does he have to have the operation just because he's gay" That was from another auntie.
My dad said "can't you wait a year before being Bethany so we can get use to it" How can he and my step mum get use to it if I stay as Simon for another year?
The week before I started treatment, a lady at a place I use to work said "so when I see you next week you will look different then?"
Telling someone I was changing my gender. Their reply was "so when did decide to do that?"
My dad not happy that I am going to change my gender: "why don't we just not see him for three years?" My step mum's reply "we can't go that, as we want know who he is in three years time"
"No one needs to know, on my side, that you are changing your gender" My reply to my dad was "but when I come to yours at Christmas, I'll be wearing ladies clothes" My dad said "no one will even notice, and if they do I'll just say, your having a sex change"
A guy who comes into our shop I work at said "drop your pants then if your female"
And "I am never going to call you Bethany as you look no different". That was when I had started my RLE as well!!
Quote from: bethanyjadefowell on May 21, 2013, 03:15:14 PM
I've had many things said to me over these eight months:
My auntie said to my mum: "He is doing it because he is lonely" "I don't think he knows what he wants" "while he's wearing ladies clothes, he can't go in our car". After my mum told her on Christmas Eva that I will change completely into a female, and look nothing like Simon, my auntie said "but in the end he is still going to be wearing ladies clothes".
"Why does he have to have the operation just because he's gay" That was from another auntie.
My dad said "can't you wait a year before being Bethany so we can get use to it" How can he and my step mum get use to it if I stay as Simon for another year?
The week before I started treatment, a lady at a place I use to work said "so when I see you next week you will look different then?"
Telling someone I was changing my gender. Their reply was "so when did decide to do that?"
My dad not happy that I am going to change my gender: "why don't we just not see him for three years?" My step mum's reply "we can't go that, as we want know who he is in three years time"
"No one needs to know, on my side, that you are changing your gender" My reply to my dad was "but when I come to yours at Christmas, I'll be wearing ladies clothes" My dad said "no one will even notice, and if they do I'll just say, your having a sex change"
A guy who comes into our shop I work at said "drop your pants then if your female"
And "I am never going to call you Bethany as you look no different". That was when I had started my RLE as well!!
How awful! I'm sorry that these people are not being supportive.
All I can say to family who think I will still look like Simon in three years time, that they will be be sorry if they ever decide to see me.
Knowing what some of my family are like, I'll get something like this said (once I've changed): "but you look nothing like Simon", "what have you done, I thought you were only wearing ladies clothes"
So I'll say something like I've changed my gender, inside and out. Many things about me as a person and totally in my looks have changed. Surely, you didn't really think it was like you thought, I'd changed my name and was just wearing ladies clothes!!
My depression/trauma therapist: I told him: "I think i am transsexual (getting more sure everyday)" And he said to me: "Are you sure you know what that word (transsexual) means?"
I just thought: "Come on, we've been good friends for many years now, you know i don't say things just like that. I've always been a person to think about things a lot"
And replied: "Come on, you know me, i know what that means. I've been dealing with it for some time actually-NOW LET US PLEASE CHANGE THE SUBJECT!"
"awkward silence"
"You'll always be a girl"
"You're going to be a very short guy"
"Your shoulders aren't broad enough"
"So you're going to have people think you're a gay guy"
"If you're going to be a guy you have to stop being afraid of bugs and chainsaws"
"I don't understand why you're bothering with hormones if you'll never be able to afford to have a penis"
"Just because you like girls doesn't mean you have to be a guy"
"If you're going to be a guy you really need to change your name back to Shannon"
~hope
"So I put down Reena as your name on the pool pass. ....What do you mean, that's too feminine? I call you that all the time."
THAT'S THE PROBLEM :eusa_wall:
It's not as bad as my birth name but still, c'mon.
Quote from: desperate believer on June 01, 2013, 09:56:34 AM
"If you're going to be a guy you have to stop being afraid of bugs and chainsaws"
I would just like to point out that it is healthy to have a fear of chainsaws. Also, plenty of cis guys are afraid of bugs.
Quote from: Edge on June 01, 2013, 10:59:03 PM
Also, plenty of cis guys are afraid of bugs.
Yep, I know a cis guy who is a big masculine dude. Wrapped himself up in a shower curtain and fell out in the floor because an itty bitty spider was in the shower. :laugh:
"So I'm a horse so I'll just go to the hospital and ask them to turn me into one" No you're a thick ignorant wanker
Quote from: big kim on June 02, 2013, 02:07:38 AM
"So I'm a horse so I'll just go to the hospital and ask them to turn me into one" No you're a thick ignorant wanker
I would reply "You don't need to ask the hospital to turn you into one. You're already a jackass so what's the point?"
Edge I know right. One slip with a chainsaw and you've lost some fingers or your entire hand :o Ha thanks Simon :) ~hope
"So have a male brain, but you're so smart...don't you realize that it shouldn't bother you what people call you?"
"Oh, when I was your age I didn't want breasts either. But then I got older and I'm happy with them now."
"She just called you a boy because of your haircut and the way you dress."
"Why'd you cut your hair short? You look so masculine now."
You don't say?
My PT recently said the immortal "but, you are a girl!" line, despite me reminding him for the umpteenth time that I'm not.
Now an ex-PT.
"Are you still called Jimmy?"
"I can't believe you had surgery and/or chopped off all your hair. If it were me, I would be devastated"
Right, cos you're a girl and like having breasts and/or long hair
Switched to a new doctor closer to home, we're talking about hystos and she goes, "Well yeah, if you're serious about this transition then I think it'd be in your best interest to get one"
Umm yes I'm serious.. Do you see what I look like?
Prior to transition, a guy friend says to me, "I mean I gotta tell you honestly, being a guy isn't that great"
Being yourself is pretty great tho
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on June 06, 2013, 10:43:10 PM
My PT recently said the immortal "but, you are a girl!" line, despite me reminding him for the umpteenth time that I'm not.
Now an ex-PT.
Got this twice last night backstage from orchestra members; one when someone said that I could get away with having left my bowtie home because I'm a "lady" (to which I replied "nope" and we then agreed that the teacher likes me and would care; besides he had a long tie which was just as bad and I wasn't the only one so it was fine) and then when we were waiting to go on a second time while chorus was singing. I was with these two guys I know from the violin section who were singing the boy soprano part, two of us had a laugh over the other trying to sing in Hebrew because we both actually knew the lyrics. It was hilarious until I joined in and for once my falsetto worked so I didn't crack horribly, just once! And the guy who did know the lyrics goes, "but you're a girl". Insta-moodkiller.
My impulse after he left was to yell "NO YOU!" but we were going to go onstage and that didn't seem very professional :P So I held my tongue and was sad in a corner on the train when we went home.
Funny though, my voice isn't all that high and I don't think I've hit notes like that since I was 8 and sang soprano in choir. After that they had me singing along with grown men in plays and things because they didn't have enough people with low voices, and it's gotten lower since then too. So how I sang the part is beyond me, I was doing it jokingly expecting my voice to cut off as usual but it didn't.
But yeah, I don't care if he's concertmaster. He can go shove it >:(
You might think this makes you happy, but once you find a woman all these "feminine" feelings will was away and you will be truly happy
"Are you a lesbian?"
"So wait, does that mean you have a penis?"
"Why is your name *birth name* then?"
"I'll call you whatever the f**k I want, that's your legal name. Deal with it."
"What, I'm not allowed to refer to you as what you are?"
"I'm obviously trying, look at how I've been avoiding pronouns and calling you *insert kind of silly gender-neutral nickname here*!"
"I bought you a sticky note pad. Look, it has an M on it too! ...For *insert mother's name here*!"
:eusa_wall:
Before I ever came out to anybody I heard this
Did you hear about "Such and Such" He had a sex change and afterwards decided He Liked women son now he is a lesbian.
Me no comment
Retrospect I wish I would have said " Gender Identity is not the same as sexual preference, get a clue"
"You're probably just gay"
&
"So you want to be a lesbian" Umm... no, it's just being female and still liking girls makes me a lesbian.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 28, 2012, 02:50:01 AM
Lately, they say things like...
"You should read the Bible about what God says about being trans."
What Does The Bible say??? Based on this definition:
Quote from: eunuch (yo̅o̅′nək) Etymology: Gk, eune, couch, echein, to guard
. . . a male whose testicles have been destroyed or removed. If this occurs before puberty, secondary sex characteristics fail to develop, and symptoms such as a feminine voice and absence of facial hair can result from the reduced level of male hormones in the blood.
We Get From Above To This:
Quote from: Matthew 19:11-12 Jesus replied (re: 'eunuchs')"Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others . . . because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."
Grumpy co-worker one day: "
Why don't you cut your hair? You look like a GIRL"!!
Me: "
As long as not an "attractive girl" To You who cares, what's the problem? ? "
Quote from: Kiera on June 09, 2013, 06:52:02 PM
What Does The Bible say??? Based on this definition:
I had this in a post before,
People have the tendancy to twist and turn the Bible into saying whatever they are thinking. Bible says nothing about transgender. I had a preacher back in the 90's when baggie pants were the big fad. He had this entire sermon about how Baggie pants was the devils doing, then went on to quote scriptures that had nothing to do with baggie pants, ect.....
I tend to not liking to cite the bible as if it's an authority.
For those who might accept it, will not accept my interpretation, and often they quibble over "the original Greek this", or "the original Hebrew that."
Fact is, I do not see the bible as any sort of authority, and just try to either use reason or understanding to allow my space in the world...and if they won't accept that, then I leave them as I found them: ignorant, but alive.
You will have no value as a (fill in natal gender) because you won't be able to have kids. The feminist in me screamed bloody murder when I was told this.
I really hate when cis people refer to a male's penis as his "manhood".
I especially hate when relatives ask me, "You're going to get a penis, right?" ..."I don't see the point of all this if you're not getting the whole package."
"Yeah but you would understand these things because you're really a girl"
Uhh...no. See, I'm transitioning because I'm not a girl. Don't expect me to understand why X responded to Y by saying Z. I can't help you there >.>
Only my anatomy is female, dammit!
Excerpt of my cousin's response to my coming out to him:
QuoteI do not embrace the all aspects of the transgender/transsexual POV as Sacred Truth. Personally I believe this action is a very grievous form of violence. Violence against yourself, against your wife and children, against your parents and extended family, against your psyche and body and being.
***Peels self off floor after reading this****
I don't think those words mean what your cousin thinks they mean. Violence and being who you are don't go together. And if they do, that's a whole other kettle of fish unrelated to being trans.
Quote from: Mariax on June 09, 2013, 07:49:05 PM
You will have no value as a (fill in natal gender) because you won't be able to have kids. The feminist in me screamed bloody murder when I was told this.
I mean obviously having babies is ALL women are good for.. UGH I hate stuff like this, what a lame excuse, not everyone wants kids.
geez, Suzi...sounds like your cousin doesn't embrace any aspect of being trans...just remember, harsh comments like that reveal more about them than you.
:)
Wow. WOW. I can't even fathom saying this stuff to someone, even before my wife came out or I knew much about the trans* community.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on June 18, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
geez, Suzi...sounds like your cousin doesn't embrace any aspect of being trans...just remember, harsh comments like that reveal more about them than you.
:)
And I totally agree with you Beth Andrea!
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on June 09, 2013, 09:27:23 PM
"Yeah but you would understand these things because you're really a girl"
Uhh...no. See, I'm transitioning because I'm not a girl. Don't expect me to understand why X responded to Y by saying Z. I can't help you there >.>
Only my anatomy is female, dammit!
Yeah I hate this! I've had this happen with 2 female acquaintances who are aware of my past. They'll say something and be like, "But you know why us girls act like this" and I'm just like.. um no actually it makes no sense.
This one's probably a classic;
"I'll call you ____ when you are one."
And my favourite;
"It's just a phase! You'll get over it eventually!"
followed by <-- and I stress
"So you're really doing it!?"
Quote from: Liminal Stranger on June 09, 2013, 09:27:23 PM
"Yeah but you would understand these things because you're really a girl"
Uhh...no. See, I'm transitioning because I'm not a girl. Don't expect me to understand why X responded to Y by saying Z. I can't help you there >.>
Only my anatomy is female, dammit!
Had this one SO MANY TIMES!!!
Especially after I (jokingly) say 'why are girls so -insert some feminine action here-?
"You're a girl too, you should know!"
NOIDONOT-SHUTYOURFACE! Even if I wasn't joking around, still!! -facekeyboard-
I remembered that my Auntie (the one I've talked about on here) said this to my mum "Why is he paying private, I thought he'd of just gone to his GP" Meaning, she thought I could just of gone to my GP and said something like "doctor, I want a sex change", and that my GP would just give me treatment that day!!
Another one she said was "Sorry but me and Anne (my other auntie) can't get our heads round what he is doing". How hard is it to understand this: "he is not just wearing ladies clothes, he is on treatment to change he's whole body into a female and in three years time will look nothing like Simon"?
Quote from: Kiera on June 09, 2013, 06:52:02 PM
What Does The Bible say???
Don't forget Isaiah 56:4-5
Quote
4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Even in biblical times we were taking new names with the bible's blessing!
I need to make a request for this thread...
Please do not cite the Bible to justify or explain being Trans.
It causes me actual emotional pain to read these things. The thread is to quote or illustrate things people say or do in their ignorance of what it is to be trans, and (perhaps) how it made you feel.
If you wish to cite chapter and verse in the context of people who use the various "Holy Books" against us, please--I beg you--start another thread.
Thank you.
"What do you mean by "treat you like a guy?" I treat everyone the same." Not that I've seen.
"Do you think your perspective of being a guy isn't exactly accurate? Do you get what I mean?" No. "Like what my perception of something I'm not would be." No.
This tumblr, but more specifically, this quote: http://dearnoncispeople.tumblr.com/post/54174385077/dear-non-cis-people-perhaps-we-dont-put-a-huge (http://dearnoncispeople.tumblr.com/post/54174385077/dear-non-cis-people-perhaps-we-dont-put-a-huge)
My wife has mostly been met with support, but the few who have been against her transition have pretty much used this argument word for word. "I don't feel like a man nor do I feel like a woman"... "our physical appearance and the way people see us doesn't mean anything to us."
I feel like the point has pretty much been missed here. Or like, totally flown over.
Edited for misquote
Quote from: cannedrabbit on June 30, 2013, 11:00:32 PMI feel like the point has pretty much been missed here. Or like, totally flown over.
Great link Rabbit! THX! "Cis people", present company excluded of course & 'religious' in particular,
ARE The Problem and sometimes I think we are our own worst enemy for sure!
LOL "
Your BAD not mine !!"
"As women get older they are prone to developing osteoporosis"
"You are not a man/ why do you want to be a man?"
"Why are you trying to look like a man? I don't understand."
"You smell like a man."
"If you decide to become a man, I will refer to you as man" but what about now?
"What can I get you for dessert, mademoiselle?"
madam
madam
madam
ma'am
"I suppose you just want everything."
madam
I think some people 'get it' but they just enjoy being obstinate, some of my neighbors are adamantly bent on use male pronouns, one even refers to me in the third person saying "He's going to the store" or 'he's doing this or that'
Sometimes I'll reply with something like "I don't know what he's doing but I am going to the store"
I've been refused surgery that could greatly improve my quality of life because, according to the doctor, "There is an operation that we do on men, but we don't do it on women".
It's on a part of the anatomy that has absolutely nothing to do with sex or gender.
Oh, and of course, he kept addressing me as 'Miss' throughout the consultation, despite my repeated corrections. ::)
This gem came from my dad yesterday after I stated that the DOE has an anti-discrimination policy that includes trans students in its protection:
"You're not transgender."
"...Yes I am."
"No you're not."
"What are you talking about? Of course I am."
"Have you changed your gender?"
"What?"
"Transgender people change their gender. Have you changed your gender?"
"Actually, it's the biological sex that gets changed-"
"You know damned well what I mean, *birthname*."
"...Anyway, I don't want to change my gender, I want to change my sex to match it. Transgender means the two don't match, not even transsexual is a label that only applies to those who have changed their sex completely."
"No, you're wrong."
D'oh. :eusa_wall:
That sounds just like my dad. The thing is, what we are inside, people can't see. That's one of the reasons "people just don't get it"
And you dad needs to understand that, changing your birth name does NOT change your gender. You should tell you dad to change his name to a female name, and then in three years time, he should understand that he has not changed his gender at all.
And what your dad is forgetting. Changing your name does not change your sex. So if your a woman wanting to be a man and you call yourself David, you can be Miss David but you'll be male until you can change that with a new birth certificate.
This pertains more to sexuality than gender. Here goes:
Me: I am attracted to women and have zero interest in being with a man.
Good Christian Friend: That's ok. Everyone's bi these days.
Me: I am not bi.
GCF: Well, I didn't say you were bi.
Me: Uh...
GCF: You could always meet a Mr. Right, fall in love and end up married someday. It happens. God works in mysterious ways.
Me: Just so we're clear....I don't like men.
GCF: Ok, well, God could have a different plan.
Me: Well, if God's plan for me involves a man....whatever, screw it, I can't continue this conversation.
GCF: I promised God I wouldn't date until God showed me the One....and he did, when I was 19 and it was awesome. Don't you want your life to fall into place like that someday?
Me: So, how is your cat doing? Is he still sick?
:icon_confused2:
Quote from: zombieinc on July 18, 2013, 12:33:55 AM
This pertains more to sexuality than gender. Here goes:
Me: I am attracted to women and have zero interest in being with a man.
Good Christian Friend: That's ok. Everyone's bi these days.
Me: I am not bi.
GCF: Well, I didn't say you were bi.
Me: Uh...
GCF: You could always meet a Mr. Right, fall in love and end up married someday. It happens. God works in mysterious ways.
Me: Just so we're clear....I don't like men.
GCF: Ok, well, God could have a different plan.
Me: Well, if God's plan for me involves a man....whatever, screw it, I can't continue this conversation.
GCF: I promised God I wouldn't date until God showed me the One....and he did, when I was 19 and it was awesome. Don't you want your life to fall into place like that someday?
Me: So, how is your cat doing? Is he still sick?
:icon_confused2:
LOL!
*
pats Zombieinc on shoulder* Oh yes, I know (knew) the "GCF" well...like talking to a machine, always returning the conversation to "what does God want for you in your life?" when want they REALLY mean is, "What do *I* want for you in your life?"
From my dad....not neccessarily about being transgender, but anything he doesn't agree with.
"It's your life. If you f**K it up, then that's on you. I did all I can do."
Translation: Because I don't agree with this, you will fail at it and when you do, you will be like "he told me so".
My dad and I finally talked. Here are some of my favorite gems:
"I'm actually licensed and could be a psychologist if I wanted to..."
"I think it's PTSD, I was an ->-bleeped-<- to you when you were growing up"
"I think there's also some repressed sexuality issues, since you used to be fat"
"You'll never get a job at the library, they won't hire anyone controversial"
"But you used to like feminine things and now you've done a complete 180 and are against anything even remotely feminine" (FYI, I had pink nail polish on when he said that)
"Merry Maids is always hiring young girls like you"
"I think you're confused"
"You should get therapy"
"Therapists are great"
and my favorite:
"Why can't you just put this off until you have a steady job- you could get one real easily. Look, all you'd have to do is stop squishing your boobs down, wear a skirt, do your hair and makeup and your could get a high paying job as a receptionist or a clerical worker."
'high paying job as a receptionist or a clerical worker"
What reality is that from :) I wasn't aware that they were such lucrative jobs :)
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on July 19, 2013, 06:24:28 AM
'high paying job as a receptionist or a clerical worker"
What reality is that from :) I wasn't aware that they were such lucrative jobs :)
The magical land-of-not-real in my dad's head, I would presume.
Let's play The Transphobic Parent Game!
Being harassed by a spy sent out by my grandmother last night because she wants to know why her "granddaughter" won't speak to her:
"And this....noooo, this isn't your daughter, is it? No, this can't be."
My dad: "This is my child, yes." (-0.5)
The guy walked away after laughing a bit over conversation with my dad, after which I turned to him.
Dad: "Well, what was I supposed to say?) (+0.5)
Later, while getting pizza:
"You can't call me Dad anymore. Now you have to call me Mom." (+99999999999999999)
Congratulations! New Hi-Score!
About 5 years back after I first came out to my wife that I had desires to be a woman, I ended up going to a church associated therapist. During one of the sessions with her:
Me: I just want to be happy. I'm just afraid, what if I do transition and I'm not truly happy with myself? (I was concerned about the guilt I'd feel from the perceived consequences of that choice)
Therapist: Well when you look at any of those people that make that choice, I don't think any of them can ever truly be happy.
What the hell kind of thing is that to say? Needless to say I never went back.
QuoteAbout 5 years back after I first came out to my wife that I had desires to be a woman, I ended up going to a church associated therapist. During one of the sessions with her:
Me: I just want to be happy. I'm just afraid, what if I do transition and I'm not truly happy with myself? (I was concerned about the guilt I'd feel from the perceived consequences of that choice)
Therapist: Well when you look at any of those people that make that choice, I don't think any of them can ever truly be happy.
What the hell kind of thing is that to say? Needless to say I never went back.
Yep. I've heard that before too. At first my church-sponsored therapist seemed like she was cool with it....then she started saying things like what your therapist said. Then I stopped going to see her.
It's like just because your trans or thinking about trans issues or having some dysphoria...Christian therapists think that they can just tell you to get over it or that you need God or that you can't be happy if you change and that's the end of the story. Yet if you told them that you had a condition that was going to cause you to lose a limb or lose your sex organs, they'd be lining people up to pray for you.
What they said to me...
"I hate dresses, you're so lucky you don't have to wear them."
"Be glad you're not a girl."
"You could never understand this pain!"
"You should just be grateful for what you have."
"You're a boy, and there's nothing you can do about it!"
What I wanted to say back...
"For your information, I love dresses!! And guess what, I love high heels too!! *gasp*"
"I am a girl! Be glad you're not a transexual."
"I would gladly chop off six of my fingers if it meant I could have a period! If you hate it so much then grow a pair and get rid of it. But just like you and every other girl, I have pains that you could never understand and they are at least as bad if not ten times worse than yours mentally, physically, and emotionally."
"And you should be grateful I decided to share my feelings with you, because next time I won't tell you anything."
"Watch me... I am not a boy..."
What I actually said...
Nothing.... I walked away... God I need to come out to all of them...
whew... I think I'm done venting... oh wait...
"You're a man, get over it!"
That one hurt a lot...
Good post Makalii
Yes I often think of pain a lot.
I suffer from fybromyalgia. It is not a significant pain, it is not a severe pain, but consider this, I have been IN pain for hmm just under 20 years.
Most bad pain, is usually not 20 years long.
Then again, I have experienced thanks to fybromyalgia, what it is like to feel pain over 100% of my body for a non stop period of 72 hours. I was nearly irrational to the point of being able to do just about anything to end it.
I have a migraine condition too oh yippee for that I don't mind saying. Nothing quite like a migraine, your mind essentially short circuits, your nervous system malfunctions, all your senses misreport sensory data.
But I have never experienced menstruation, never given birth and guess what, oh yippee skippee so what. It doesn't make a person able to say that a male shaped person doesn't know pain.
And being disabled, and watching all your dreams just die. Some pain is not entirely physical and not easy to quantify in degrees of pain.
I do dislike, that I will never experience the significant discomfort of child birth. That screaming and hollering while you push a new life out into the world. But I also don't get to see for the first time a life I made as well.
Menstruation is part of life, but, a cis female can always get it turned off too. It's not like it is a curse that can't be removed.
Grateful for what I have? Yes I am grateful I am breathing, grateful I am alive, grateful I live in Canada and grateful for a wide range of things. But, I am not a man, and I'd rather take a pass on all the perks our misogynist society directs my way because I am considered male.
I understand, some females don't like dresses and skirts. Hey some do some don't
I hate fast food, but if you want to eat it that's your business I say.
"So.........blah blah blah blah cut off your penis?"
:o
One of my brothers read my Facebook post in which I came out as trans and announced my name change.
He contacted me (using my birth name) and said he thought his FB had been hacked.
Quote from: MariaMx on July 28, 2013, 10:15:35 AM
"So.........blah blah blah blah cut off your penis?"
:o
I had that too, and the result was rather funny...so I made a thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,145588.0/topicseen.html) especially for it!
A call to the customer service department of a telephone company.
Staff: Can I have your account number please?
Me: Certainly, it's XXXXX XXXX
Staff: And your name?
Me: I'm Stella XXXXXXXX, the account holder.
Staff: And am I speaking with the account holder?
Me: Yes I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXX
Staff: I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder. I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX.
Staff: No, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX, I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand. But Mr Transgender, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: Excuse me, who is Mr Transgender?
Staff: You are Mr Transgender sir. Can I speak with the account holder Miss Stella XXXXXXXX
Me: You are speaking with the account holder Ms Stella Baker. I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand Mr Transgender, but can I please speak with Miss Stella XXXXXXXX the account holder?
Me: It's okay. Please don't worry about it. I'll go online instead. Thank you.
Staff: Very well. Is there anything else I can do for you?
Me: Unfortunately not.
Staff: Have a nice day.
Quote from: StellaB on July 30, 2013, 01:02:58 PM
A call to the customer service department of a telephone company.
Staff: Can I have your account number please?
Me: Certainly, it's XXXXX XXXX
Staff: And your name?
Me: I'm Stella XXXXXXXX, the account holder.
Staff: And am I speaking with the account holder?
Me: Yes I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXX
Staff: I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder. I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX.
Staff: No, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX, I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand. But Mr Transgender, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: Excuse me, who is Mr Transgender?
Staff: You are Mr Transgender sir. Can I speak with the account holder Miss Stella XXXXXXXX
Me: You are speaking with the account holder Ms Stella Baker. I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand Mr Transgender, but can I please speak with Miss Stella XXXXXXXX the account holder?
Me: It's okay. Please don't worry about it. I'll go online instead. Thank you.
Staff: Very well. Is there anything else I can do for you?
Me: Unfortunately not.
Staff: Have a nice day.
That is hilarious and horrible at the same time.
Admittedly, I'm easily squicked when it comes to bugs (I have a bit of a phobia, I guess) and watching people prep animals for human consumption. This includes fish. I don't like fish at all - I hate the smell, the taste, the texture, the animal itself...everything, despite liking other sorts of seafood. One day, my dad was watching an outdoorsman-type show, and the main feature was how to best prep fish after catching them. Of course, this included showing step-by-step how to do it. I made a face and said something along the lines of, "Ew, gross" before turning away from the TV so I wouldn't have to watch.
My dad immediately pipes up with, "How can you think that's gross? I thought you wanted to be a man."
Of course, thats not the only thing he does. There's the constant misgendering me and calling me by my birth name at every opportunity, scoffing when I tell him I'd get thrown out of the military (or not allowed to serve at all), basically making fun of me every time I find something gross that I apparently shouldn't, getting angry at me every time I get a piece of mail addressed to "Christopher", openly criticizing and bashing LGBT+ people when a spot about equality shows on the news...the list goes on.
And when he gets really angry at me for whatever, he always breaks out, "You're never going to be a man! You're a woman and you always will be!" without fail. Sometimes he throws religion in there, too.
He sounds like a real winner :)
Quote from: StellaB on July 30, 2013, 01:02:58 PM
A call to the customer service department of a telephone company.
Staff: Can I have your account number please?
Me: Certainly, it's XXXXX XXXX
Staff: And your name?
Me: I'm Stella XXXXXXXX, the account holder.
Staff: And am I speaking with the account holder?
Me: Yes I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXX
Staff: I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder. I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX.
Staff: No, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX, I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand. But Mr Transgender, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: Excuse me, who is Mr Transgender?
Staff: You are Mr Transgender sir. Can I speak with the account holder Miss Stella XXXXXXXX
Me: You are speaking with the account holder Ms Stella Baker. I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand Mr Transgender, but can I please speak with Miss Stella XXXXXXXX the account holder?
Me: It's okay. Please don't worry about it. I'll go online instead. Thank you.
Staff: Very well. Is there anything else I can do for you?
Me: Unfortunately not.
Staff: Have a nice day.
It's frightening how stupid some people really are. :icon_yikes:
Amy
"That's not very girly!"
"So? Why does everything I do have to be girly?"
"Uh...I thought that was your thing?"
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtP_R3BSjYTK7C6NR9gSSvlKG4WvI0MGgz05QipHX9xJuJw71sVA)
Quote from: Amelia Pond on July 30, 2013, 07:22:06 PM
It's frightening how stupid some people really are. :icon_yikes:
Amy
That's not stupid, that's a outsourced worker following a script.
"Weren't you a convinced heterosexual?"
Not exactly, more like I was trying to convince me.
"But you have a rather masculine face"
That's what surgery is for, hon.
I had forgotten that he was a good guy in everything but women, where he is one of those that believe thay can always hypnotize a girl and fork at the end of the night.
me: dad, I'm having trouble with my gender.
dad: what's it doing?
me: i don't like it.
dad: oh, well, it's ok if you are a lesbian.
me: no dad, it's not my sexual orientation, it's my body.
dad: oh. what's wrong with it?
me: it's a girls body.
dad: you want to be a man?
me: yeah.
dad: ok. you know there's lots of lesbians like you.
me: dad, im not a lesbian.
dad: what do you want to do about it?
me: therapy would be nice.
dad: ok. *googles up some therapists* this one says she works with lesbians.
me: *facepalm*
this is the overacted version of my coming out to my dad. he still thinks im a lesbian. but you know, he's accepting of whatever i do so i'm not going to complain one bit, i just thought it was funny XD
Quote from: StellaB on July 30, 2013, 01:02:58 PM
A call to the customer service department of a telephone company.
Staff: Can I have your account number please?
Me: Certainly, it's XXXXX XXXX
Staff: And your name?
Me: I'm Stella XXXXXXXX, the account holder.
Staff: And am I speaking with the account holder?
Me: Yes I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXX
Staff: I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder. I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX.
Staff: No, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX, I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand. But Mr Transgender, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: Excuse me, who is Mr Transgender?
Staff: You are Mr Transgender sir. Can I speak with the account holder Miss Stella XXXXXXXX
Me: You are speaking with the account holder Ms Stella Baker. I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand Mr Transgender, but can I please speak with Miss Stella XXXXXXXX the account holder?
Me: It's okay. Please don't worry about it. I'll go online instead. Thank you.
Staff: Very well. Is there anything else I can do for you?
Me: Unfortunately not.
Staff: Have a nice day.
That's actually something I've thought about as being a potential issue with a transition. Convincing all my creditors that I am who I say I am when I need to change my name on the accounts.
It is likely a combination of outsourced worker and stupid.
Transgender is so utterly and totally not a surname and sorry if anyone actually thinks a non English speaking person might not realize it.
These just make me angrier.
Person A: "If God wanted you to be a girl, you would be a girl."
Me: "Really? 'Cause if I gave a ->-bleeped-<-, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be transgender anymore."
"God knew what he was doing when He made you a male."
"You're not here to live on your own accord, you're here to serve God's will."
(re: my gender) "It's not up to you."
"You are a man and always will be." / "You are not a woman and never will be."
Person A: "You were born in your right body. You're just confused, that's all."
Me: "Uh, no. I'm not the one who's confused about my gender identity. You are!"
"You shouldn't be mad at God because God knows far better than you."
Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on July 31, 2013, 08:00:59 AM
These just make me angrier.
Person A: "If God wanted you to be a girl, you would be a girl."
Me: "Really? 'Cause if I gave a ->-bleeped-<-, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be transgender anymore."
"God knew what he was doing when He made you a male."
"You're not here to live on your own accord, you're here to serve God's will."
(re: my gender) "It's not up to you."
"You are a man and always will be." / "You are not a woman and never will be."
Person A: "You were born in your right body. You're just confused, that's all."
Me: "Uh, no. I'm not the one who's confused about my gender identity. You are!"
"You shouldn't be mad at God because God knows far better than you."
The God doesn't make mistakes stuff is what almost drove me to suicide. I hate it when they say that. But I do recall something from my religious upbringing that counters that and that's that people that are born different are born that way to show the glory of God. So, if there is a God, maybe they made us this way specifically so we would transition and get people to lighten up, showing the glory of God :)
Quote from: Emily Aster on July 31, 2013, 07:10:33 AM
That's actually something I've thought about as being a potential issue with a transition. Convincing all my creditors that I am who I say I am when I need to change my name on the accounts.
If you chanfe your name via the courts, they give you an "Official" copy of the order...you make about some copies, write up a basic letter:
Quote"Hi, I recently changed my name from Fred ____ to Wilma ____, and need to change my name on this acct to match.
Credit/Bank name:
Acct #:
My address is the same/has changed also, it is:
Enclosed is a copy of the court order.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Wilma ____"
Why the f*** does everything come down to god?
If god did make us, then why not make everyone perfect? I do not believe that god made us "female inside and male on the outside"
This is a better reason why we are born in the wrong body "One theory is that changes in the brain prior to birth cause parts of the brain to develop in a pattern opposite to that of the physical gender. It has been found, for example, that significant proportions of male transsexuals have abnormally low levels of HY antigen. (HY antigen mediates the masculinizing effect of the Y chromosome in men."
QuoteWhy the f*** does everything come down to god?
If god did make us, then why not make everyone perfect?
For some people (not being judgemental here) G-d is a very important facet in their lives. Yes, there are those who use the idea as a crutch for their hate, and they beat us over the head with their crutch...
The searching for the Divine is not evil, it is the misinterpretation of G-d's nature which is evil.
Hi friends :police:
This is not the 'rant about god' thread :) Please try to stay on topic
Thank you
V M
Quote from: StellaB on July 30, 2013, 07:22:06 PM
A call to the customer service department of a telephone company.
Staff: Can I have your account number please?
Me: Certainly, it's XXXXX XXXX
Staff: And your name?
Me: I'm Stella XXXXXXXX, the account holder.
Staff: And am I speaking with the account holder?
Me: Yes I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXX
Staff: I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder. I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX.
Staff: No, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: I am the account holder, I am Ms. Stella XXXXXXXXX, I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand. But Mr Transgender, I need to speak with the account holder.
Me: Excuse me, who is Mr Transgender?
Staff: You are Mr Transgender sir. Can I speak with the account holder Miss Stella XXXXXXXX
Me: You are speaking with the account holder Ms Stella Baker. I'm transgendered.
Staff: I understand Mr Transgender, but can I please speak with Miss Stella XXXXXXXX the account holder?
Me: It's okay. Please don't worry about it. I'll go online instead. Thank you.
Staff: Very well. Is there anything else I can do for you?
Me: Unfortunately not.
Staff: Have a nice day.
Amy
Who's on first?
Maddy
"I don't believe you're transgender, because I've been reading and nearly all of those people knew it since they were like 3, and you were so, not. "
Seriously mother... sigh...
Quote from: Makalii on July 31, 2013, 08:02:06 PM
"I don't believe you're transgender, because I've been reading and nearly all of those people knew it since they were like 3, and you were so, not. "
Seriously mother... sigh...
That is unfortunately heard often among the "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" crowd...so that counts as a double "ARGHHH!"
Quote from: Makalii on July 31, 2013, 08:02:06 PM
"I don't believe you're transgender, because I've been reading and nearly all of those people knew it since they were like 3, and you were so, not. "
Seriously mother... sigh...
I'm sure I'll get that from some family members myself. It's not that it wasn't there for me. It's that I was taught very early on about clear gender lines and that you don't cross them. Ever.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 31, 2013, 08:53:04 AM
If you chanfe your name via the courts, they give you an "Official" copy of the order...you make about some copies, write up a basic letter:
Thanks
OK, here's a doozy. I've just heard that another FtM has been refused funding for phalloplasty, because he's a gay man who prefers to 'bottom' so obviously he doesn't need a penis, right? :icon_eek:
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 31, 2013, 08:06:45 PM
That is unfortunately heard often among the "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" crowd...so that counts as a double "ARGHHH!"
"->-bleeped-<-r than thou?"
Quote from: Makalii on August 02, 2013, 03:44:22 PM
"->-bleeped-<-r than thou?"
There are those among the ts people who say things like,
"You don't try to pass?! You're not a real transsexual, are you?"
"I had SRS before I was ____ years old; the only way to really be a woman is with *all* the correct parts."
Etc etc...basically "I have ____, and therefore *I* am more transsexual than you."
*sigh* :(
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 02, 2013, 05:06:53 PM
There are those among the ts people who say things like,
"You don't try to pass?! You're not a real transsexual, are you?"
"I had SRS before I was ____ years old; the only way to really be a woman is with *all* the correct parts."
Etc etc...basically "I have ____, and therefore *I* am more transsexual than you."
*sigh* :(
Wow... Some people... *shakes her head in disapproval*
Quote from: Emily Aster on July 31, 2013, 07:10:33 AM
That's actually something I've thought about as being a potential issue with a transition. Convincing all my creditors that I am who I say I am when I need to change my name on the accounts.
I've had the talk of the phone issue recently and a name change issue three times recently. First my car broke down and I called the rescue service, I was alone, it was night and I was frightened. The girl on the phone asked for the name on the member card, I gave it my female name, Can I speak to her please. I am her. Oh I'm so sorry Miss, she had the service to me in 20 mins.
The second was yesterday when I was buying an IPad, I was having a network card put in and I had to verify details with the service on the phone, the salesman selling me the IPad was sitting next to me. The network people were having problems matching Cindy with my voice. The salesman asked for the phone and said 'She is a very nice attractive woman who has a deep voice, I can see her ID and I can confirm her name is Cindy XXX' and handed the phone back, I got effusive apologies.
The final was the bank, I was depositing a cheque made to my previous name, the clerk looked at the cheque and said, I'm sorry this is made out to a man whose name is not on your account. - the reverse problem!!!!!!
So don't give in!!!! We will win!
Quote from: Emily Aster on July 31, 2013, 08:29:28 AM
The God doesn't make mistakes
Good lawrd! I got the same line of crap 55 years ago! Some things never change.
Quote..... people that are born different are born that way to show the glory of God. So, if there is a God, maybe they made us this way ......
I tried the same argument and the counter argument was simply that I was wrong and they were right. You can't argue with a closed mind!
When I went to get my new I.D. with my new legal (yay!) name on it, I was asked, "So you changed your name to Victoria?" despite Victor being written on the certificate and her clearly seeing it.
Quote from: Edge on August 03, 2013, 03:19:21 PM
When I went to get my new I.D. with my new legal (yay!) name on it, I was asked, "So you changed your name to Victoria?" despite Victor being written on the certificate and her clearly seeing it.
I don't know how many times people have asked my name, and I say, "My name is Beth."
"Oh, hi Seth!" ::)
Uhh...no, Beth--B.E.T.H., 'Beth'".
"Ben?" :-\
etc.
It's like their mind goes wonky if they're presented with a male bodied person, using a female name...
I was going through my old posts and found this I posted a year ago in another thread. I thought it would be fitting here. The stuff I want to point out is in the bold.
Quote from: Malachite on January 13, 2012, 06:10:20 AM
I haven't came out to most people yet. I think only about 3 or 4 people know. I will just summarize what they basically said.
1. My old long time female friend who is a butch lesbian: "No I don't think you are transgender"
2. My father: "Whats wrong?"
Me: " I can't tell you.
Him: Why not
Me: "You wouldn't understand."
Him: "Try me"
Me" I have Gender Dysphoria. I am a male trapped in a female body and that I'm thinking about transitioning.
Him: "You need to think about other things. It is a complete waste of money.
Me: "It's been on my mind for 19 years so it's not a waste of money. Don't you love your penis?"
Him: "I'm supposed to. It's your life I can't do anything about that I had a feeling you would say that. I know a 50 other people including my brother who are "like that" Consult the bible or someone more experienced with this."
Me: Can you tell me what chapter the Bible talks about being transgendered?"
Him: "Nope start with Genesis and work your way up"
and to sum it up he said he will always address me by my birthname
3. One of my current friends: "Well that explains a lot of things" She supports me if this is what I want to do but she does think I need to focus on the basic things of being independent first before I start which I agree.
4. Haven't officially came out to my mom but I have hinted to her and she basically knows. I've always told her that I wanted to be a boy and that I plan on having my uterus ripped out of me. She said that altering my body would be an abomination to God and I told her if she thinks THAT will be an abomination just wait until how I will really alter my body and she said "turn into a man?" and so I wouldn't shock her initially I just said maybe. She knows but we don't speak about it.
5. Most of my online friends don't care. One of them think's its really cool and they will still love me reguardless and one who is a cismale said that I'd make a better man than him.
Today I was talking to a guy who sounded curious about me...but then he said, "Aren't you afraid you've just condemned yourself? Like on Judgement Day?"
Umm...no, because G-d made me this way, with a male body and a female brain. I'm doing the best I can to do the right thing.
He just kept repeating that maybe I "condemned" myself, apparently not hearing what I said otherwise. Finally I said, "Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. I won't know till then. I know what's in my heart then and now (we'd been talking a little about when I was a "guy")...maybe G-d isn't testing me, maybe he's testing the rest of humanity, to see how they react to trans-people?"
Oh, he hadn't really thought about that. Guess what he said next?
"So you aren't afraid that you may have condemned yourself by changing?"
::)
Ok, conversation over. Some people's kids... :embarrassed:
One other thing he seemed to insist on, and didn't believe me: He asked how long it took to "sew on" my hair. Ummm...what? "Your hair, it's pretty long. Did they have to sew it on or something?"
Nope, it's mine. Been growing it out for about 2 1/2 years now...
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 09, 2013, 07:36:33 PM
One other thing he seemed to insist on, and didn't believe me: He asked how long it took to "sew on" my hair. Ummm...what? "Your hair, it's pretty long. Did they have to sew it on or something?"
Nope, it's mine. Been growing it out for about 2 1/2 years now...
That sounds painful and I'm pretty sure people don't actually do that unless it's hair sewn on a doll.
They do have hair "plugs"...that's kinda like sewing...but obviously the guy doesn't know much about hair restoration.
I wonder if he even knows that males (even former ones) can grow their hair long
Quote from: Edge on August 09, 2013, 10:22:36 PM
That sounds painful and I'm pretty sure people don't actually do that unless it's hair sewn on a doll.
Lots of people have weaves. Generally those are sewn on. Some use glue, yes, but as far as I know its more common to sew.
Oops. Sorry. I know nothing about weaves or plugs.
Quote from: CaseyB on August 09, 2013, 10:29:05 PM
Lots of people have weaves. Generally those are sewn on. Some use glue, yes, but as far as I know its more common to sew.
Oh well, I guess *I* know nothing about hair stuff!!! LOL :-\ ;)
I always thought when hair extensions were "woven" into the host hair, it was done without extra stuff-n-such. Never bothered to look into it, as I don't have a need to (my mom is in her 70's, and still doesn't need a wig)
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 09, 2013, 07:36:33 PM
Today I was talking to a guy who sounded curious about me...but then he said, "Aren't you afraid you've just condemned yourself? Like on Judgement Day?"
Whenever I hear things like that, I always think that should such a day ever occur, it would be more damning if one lives a life of dishonesty, to themselves and everyone else around them, by
not taking the steps necessary to be true to who they are. If you live your life pretending to be someone you're not, then like ripples in a pond, it spreads outwards to encompass everything your life touches. And who, in the end, gets judged? The person or the persona? Which is examined, the actress or the role?
When the curtain falls and only the actress remains, how do you judge a lifetime's role played as someone else?
It seems almost paradoxical.
In hindsight, I just think he judged me, and wouldn't accept any other explanation but his own, narrow self-righteous view of how G-d operates.
Many Christians are like this. And like the lawyer joke, "It's only 90% of them who give the other 10% a bad name."
Truth, I hate when people resort to the expression 'well that is YOUR truth'.
I don't own it.
Good, I hate it when people state 'well define good'.
It is or it isn't, how complicated can something be?
I hate it when a person begins with 'well I believe....'
That's wonderful, but I think I'd rather focus on having real reasons.
I hate it when someone quotes something, and the mere fact they can get the quote correct gives them the notion the quote is magically correct too. No it just means you were able to remember what you read.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 09, 2013, 07:36:33 PM
"So you aren't afraid that you may have condemned yourself by changing?"
I would ask a narrow-minded person, "Which do you have a problem with? That I was born transgender or that I'm treating my condition?"
While dealing with a migraine attack, and essentially stuck unable to do anything at all for hours, and basically incapable of doing anything but think and barely that as well, I was stuck on a thought.
'They just don't get it'
Those words though, can be problematic and a double edged sword, as it will cut both ways and not necessarily care which direction and when.
THEY don't get US, but, there are those among us that 'don't get' a lot of things too.
Every time we expect a person to understand something, and we refuse to budge in any fashion, we might be just as bad as anyone else in that behaviour.
THEY come at us with attitudes and beliefs based on nothing but blind ignorance and inadequate education, but I get that all the time with some things, and I get it from every direction some days and not just from THEM, but from US as well.
YOU KNOW what I am talking about, and I will not speak it, but the thing is, we DO subject them and ourselves to this daily.
We force others to endure bias and scorn based on the unproven, and the uneducated. And it is a matter of friction, because both sides will insist, the others 'just don't get it'.
There are a lot of people out there, that just don't get a lot of things. And they are not trying to 'get it', as they have convinced themselves they already DO 'get it', and they are satisfied with what they have claimed they have. They are not interested in being convinced otherwise. They might even be violently opposed.
Sometimes my migraines while wrecking my ability to function, occasionally accidentally will make some things even more crystal clear. It's the thrill of a migraine, the senses are totally shot, they are not performing as expected.
Remember, while heaping scorn on those that 'just don't get it' we are all human, and there might be a few areas we have failed to 'get it' that are no help as well.
I go out of my way to understand and communicate with people who have different values and perspectives than I have. It's one of the few things which is challenging and provides satisfaction when accomplished.
But communication is a two-way street...not only do I try to understand others, I actively try to bring understanding to them. However, there are people who simply do not wish to understand. Their mind actively blocks reason and compassion, because to understand a new and different perspective means to question your own. People who have a narrow mind need dogmatic loyalty to their beliefs, in order to stay strong and accepted within their cultural norms. It is people like this whom I describe as "just not getting it."
It is a whole 'nother challenge to open a person's mind to other ways of thinking...they have to let you in, and at most all we can do is plant the seed, and do no harm in the process. With hope, kindness, and time they may come around...which is why I encourage others to not get angry when responding to people, even if they are insulting or hateful. Better to plant the seed, and let them go in peace, than to lash out in defense of our own ego.
imho
"But you're a man, you have balls"
"my son is not a ->-bleeped-<-" right to my face :(
I've had this ask a few times, "how can you be gay but want to be a female but still like men?" Ok they did not mean it in a bad way, and I to dont have an answer to that question.
"You are just an feminine male."
"You never acted like a girl."
"Can't you just be a drag queen?"
Those all upset me alot.
From my mom: "Is this from being on the internet too much?!"
Other than that she's pretty supportive:p She calmed down after I explained more.
from my dad when I came out: "What about all the girls you had sex with? Did you use your penis?"
I almost facepalmed from that one. Dx
From random people online: "How can you want to be female but still like girls?"
You can be a lesbian, Rox.
"If you are a lesbian then you go to change your gender then what are you called?"
"There's a woman she used to be a woman now she's a man I guess she's a man anyway, she comes up to me and gets all up in my business and says she wants to put her manhood all over me and I'm like what manhood? Where is the penis? She I mean he thinks he's a gay guy? How is it done? Should I have sex with him?"
To which I pretend to be understanding...
Quote from: Tadpole on August 14, 2013, 06:30:22 PM
You can be a lesbian, Rox.
"If you are a lesbian then you go to change your gender then what are you called?"
"There's a woman she used to be a woman now she's a man I guess she's a man anyway, she comes up to me and gets all up in my business and says she wants to put her manhood all over me and I'm like what manhood? Where is the penis? She I mean he thinks he's a gay guy? How is it done? Should I have sex with him?"
To which I pretend to be understanding...
Haha I know, I am one(:
But people who say that usually aren't trying to be rude, they just have trouble understanding it, so I fill them in.
Nobody cares what you do in your private life
Quote from: big kim on August 15, 2013, 02:12:10 AM
Nobody cares what you do in your private life
Some people do. One's partner, for example...and the nosy self-righteous busybodies who are all too eager to judge somebody with
their morals.
I agree it's nobody's business but your own ...but people are odd that way.
Quote from: big kim on August 15, 2013, 02:12:10 AM
Nobody cares what you do in your private life
Eeeeeeeevrybody cares what people do in their private lives, and that is the problem.
And they get right in your face if you do it in public too that's for sure, because then it is supposedly you injuring them in some way by subjecting them to it.
I mean, a couple of male looking persons kissing can seriously traumatize a kid I suppose. Well you would think by the way they act.
Two women getting married, and suddenly ordinary heteros fear their marriages are in dire peril of falling apart. Well based on the news items I have seen.
Clearly my walking down the street wearing a purse makes me an agent of wanton destruction.
New one from my mom the other dayy: "I gave birth to a son!"
After I politely asked her to respect my pronouns.
Did you tell her "or so you thought" or did you use the "April Fool's!" defense?
Quote from: Roxanne_Burste on August 17, 2013, 04:48:13 AM
New one from my mom the other dayy: "I gave birth to a son!"
After I politely asked her to respect my pronouns.
You gave birth to a child, why can't you love her?
Either that, or, 'you gave birth to a person'.
The proper response to a child, is you will love them regardless.
Love doesn't come with conditions, the moment there are conditions, it isn't love, it's only really like a lot.
I am permitted to get irked by my son, angered by my son, annoyed by my son, but, I will always love my son without conditions.
And if some day he tells me he is a she, or is gay or is anything at all, I will not love that person any less.
I only hope some day life grants him what it granted me, the joy of having someone like him (or her or whatever :)).
In the chemist today,"Have we got Ms Brown's HRT, he said he'll wait for them"
Quote from: big kim on August 20, 2013, 07:11:15 PM
In the chemist today,"Have we got Ms Brown's HRT, he said he'll wait for them"
Ay yay, I've had variations on that over the phone...
In the elevator with a co-worker the other night, trying to go with the "subtle hints" method for telling people about being on HRT:
We were both complaining about our arms hurting after a full day of dealing.
Co-worker: "I don't know why they hurt so much."
Me: "Yeah... in my case it's probably the hormones. I'm starting to get girly arms."
Co-worker: "You know how you can fix that? Do pushups. I'm serious. Just ten pushups a day, they'll bulk those right up."
Sigh... this is what I get for trying to get cute with it. Why do I torture myself like this? I should really just come out and get it over with.
Wow, after reading all of these I'm starting to realize how lucky I am, then again I did move half way across the country where I would be in a safe place to come out and transition. That being said, you never know who will take things the wrong way and who will react opposite of how you think they well.
When I came out to my Manager I was passing bricks, I was pretty sure he would be okay with it but there is always that fear of the unknown. When I told him he shrugged his shoulders, gave me a pat on the shoulder and said: "You do what you gotta do."
Man, that was a huge relief, he even offered to break the ice with the store Managers for me which I accepted gladly because I wasn't sure about them.
He told them and then reported back to me that they were both fine with it. Apparently the one Manager said. "Wow... didn't see that coming... wait... is it 'he to she' or 'she to he'?' :laugh:
I came in a few days later to touch base with him and he told me not to worry about it and that he had a few friends who transitioned as well, noting that he had my back.
My direct manager has told a few other people too, mostly people who are in a position similar to him and so far there are no complaints or anything... then again when my manager says 'I don't want any snide remarks out of you, but this is what's going on...' you tend to keep your mouth shut and just accept what comes after.
I do love my management team <3
Surprisingly enough, its my mom that doesn't accept me as well as she thinks. She usually writes emails starting with
'Dear Son/Daughter'
*facepalm* Mom... I've explained my situation to you and let you know how offensive that is to people such as myself, so why do you keep doing it? I understand you're trying, I really do but...
Oh well... Hey! Five out of six ain't too bad~!
It's not normal.What 's normal?If you got kicked in the ass every day at 09 00 would that be normal?
I needed to deposit some money in my current account at my bank. So I go into the bank with the cash and my bank card, and have this conversation with the teller:
Me: "Hi! I'd like to deposit £100 into my current account please" (Hands over cash & card)
Teller: "Certainly!" (Takes cash & card, processes the transaction - obviously sees my name on screen).
Teller: "Ok, that's all done for you! The money will be in this person's account immediately."
I left the bank with the feeling that they were humouring me by doing business with me; that if I had been attempting to withdraw cash instead of depositing it, I'd have had a very different outcome.
The last thing I heard is not so much of a 'not getting it' line as it is people not realizing what they are saying and that it could be offensive. A customer in my store called out to me from about 15 feet away and then got a bit confused when I got closer. It went like this:
"Sir? (pause until I'm beside customer) .......I think....sir???" Customer = this smiley face - ???
The second part was more spoken like an inside-the-head thought and very 'tentatively'. If you're not sure about someone's gender, saying that out loud isn't appropriate and some people would be upset by it. As for me, it was nice to be sorta mis-gendered without even trying. It was my darned voice that settled it for them. I just looked into speech therapy and I won't be able to start until March. :(
So there I was, sitting in my heavily decorated car with flowers, butterflies, and "Beth" on the side...I'm having lunch (Chinese...yum!), wearing a purple flowered blouse, boobs stickin' out just as proud as can be, makeup (very nicely done, I might add), nails are purple, dangly earrings (standard issue for me)...
And a panhandler walks up.
"Excuse me sir, do you have any change? I need to catch the bus..."
::)
Oh. My. Gawd. Even if I had any change, you just blew your chance of getting ANYTHING from me... , is what I thought.
What I said though, was "No, sorry, I just have plastic."
I don't think I "passed" to that guy...
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 28, 2013, 01:52:31 PM
So there I was, sitting in my heavily decorated car with flowers, butterflies, and "Beth" on the side...I'm having lunch (Chinese...yum!), wearing a purple flowered blouse, boobs stickin' out just as proud as can be, makeup (very nicely done, I might add), nails are purple, dangly earrings (standard issue for me)...
And a panhandler walks up.
"Excuse me sir, do you have any change? I need to catch the bus..."
::)
Oh. My. Gawd. Even if I had any change, you just blew your chance of getting ANYTHING from me... , is what I thought.
What I said though, was "No, sorry, I just have plastic."
I don't think I "passed" to that guy...
He must not know that you catch more flies with honey. If he learned that he might even be able to get on the bus for free, I know a good 50% of the bus drivers in my city generally let you on for free if you seem down on your luck and you're nice about it.
Quote from: Alice Danielle on August 28, 2013, 02:41:11 PM
He must not know that you catch more flies with honey. If he learned that he might even be able to get on the bus for free, I know a good 50% of the bus drivers in my city generally let you on for free if you seem down on your luck and you're nice about it.
I really doubt he was actually after bus fare.
Quote from: some old bag lady on August 28, 2013, 02:44:19 PM
I really doubt he was actually after bus fare.
good point. maybe he should learn how to shoplift.
Quote from: Alice Danielle on August 28, 2013, 02:41:11 PM
He must not know that you catch more flies with honey. If he learned that he might even be able to get on the bus for free, I know a good 50% of the bus drivers in my city generally let you on for free if you seem down on your luck and you're nice about it.
True. We have a policy if someone wants a ride, but can't pay (no matter the reason), we let them ride. But, if they make a habit of it, we're to allow them to ride, but call a sup to have a talk with them...which is part of the process to be barred from riding.
It's not our job to determine if someone is needy, or scamming...although I do if I'm on my own time and using my money. I've been known to give large cash to people, if my senses say they are legit.
Point is, if you need money and you see someone who doesn't quite line up with what you see...play along with them. It don't hurt nobody.
Alright so got my first experience that I can post in here. Don't I feel like part of the group now...
Talking to a guy about troubles growing up, he said that a rumor started about him that he was gay in high school. I said I can kind of relate to that, all my life I've been considered by others to be a gay man, it definitely is frustrating. His response was, "Imagine how much more frustrating it is when you aren't."
Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 28, 2013, 01:52:31 PM
So there I was, sitting in my heavily decorated car with flowers, butterflies, and "Beth" on the side...I'm having lunch (Chinese...yum!), wearing a purple flowered blouse, boobs stickin' out just as proud as can be, makeup (very nicely done, I might add), nails are purple, dangly earrings (standard issue for me)...
When people misgender trans women who present clearly, unequivocally as female (like you were in this case), I think it goes past "honest mistake" and is willed and deliberate ignorance. When people misgender me I am slightly less offended, because they may honestly believe I am a butch lesbian (since a lot of women wear men's clothes), but you would never see someone who was entirely male-identified going about day to day business dressed as you were in this circumstance. You just don't. So, he was being a jackass imo.
Got screamed at again that "the things I do" are sickening. Would give myself hope and say less than two years left, but my body is deteriorating and I'll probably need to stay with a parent longer. Such wondrous things I have to look forward to.
The other day, someone asked me if my brain works like a guy's. Duh.
And I got the person thing again in all caps and with multiple exclamation marks. "You are a person! Done." No, not done.
Finally able to punch my ticket for the thread here today.
Was with mom grocery shopping, and saw a friend I have known for a few years.
Well about a year now, had something of a 'disagreement' during a role game session (he was DM). Big issue over the fact that it is easy for a person to disguise their gender without needing to make a fuss and need a dice roll if they simply chose their clothing well. He disagreed, was positive I needed to make rolls all the time, as if it was an ongoing issue. Eventually I just got fed up, and told him look Jeff, you are sitting next to a woman all this time, and you sure never knew, so why should these paper people be so miraculously informed?
That was one of the first instances where I elected to club someone over the head with my situation. So ok, I am just assuming the guy 'KNOWS' eh. Either than or for the last year he's been stunningly clueless. I've been in the store ooodles of times wearing obvious jewellery all this time.
"Les what's with the cheap asian jewellery?"
Not sure what the response should have been.
I am unsure if he is aware or not, he's not on my Facebook, so has not been privy to a years worth of my babbling on every day about things.
Or was it just he actually thinks my jewellery looks like cheap junk? I mean heck is that something you say to a friend regardless of gender?
I don't know where my Avon products are made, might be Asia like everything else is. But I kinda think it is nice looking. Sure the necklace isn't actual gold and the stones have not put me out hundreds of bucks. But just because it didn't cost me an arm and a leg doesn't make it ugly either.
Rather vexed that he said that to me.
I was seeing a phsyciatrist for my depression a few months ago, when the 6 sessions were up after I had fully discussed my gender issues for the full 6 hrs she sent a letter addressed to Mr Jayne ********!!
My support worker said he didn't know if he should laugh at her stupidity or phone her up & give her a few choice words!
Sadly a shrinks diplomas proudly displayed on the walls will tell you all about how they are supposed to be skilled shrinks, but, it is often clear, some shrinks were never taught anything useful for some topics.
Favorite line from straight girls who think I'm cute
I'd like you if you had a dick
Favorite lines from everyone
Are you a boy or a girl
[TW?]
Today, during a discussion between my mom and myself of the sunshine and roses associated with EDS:
Mom: Oh, and another thing- people with the Classic type often have heavy periods. I used to get those all the time, you know-
Me: *face screws up in agony* Mom!
Mom: WHAT?! I WAS TALKING ABOUT ME! I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU, EVERY TIME THAT'S EVER BEEN MENTIONED YOU ACT SO DISGUSTED, IT'S SICK! THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR SO LONG, WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?!
I wonder why that is, Mom. Honestly, I can't possibly think of any reason I wouldn't want to hear about that, because only guys would ever be grossed out about those sorts of things, and clearly I'm not a guy. ::)
Love it when the evidence is right in front of her nose and she *still* can't see it.
"You'll never get any chicks looking like that"
What can I get you SIR?
You're manager,an apology and your P45 will do nicely thank you
Why does it seem like every single time I come out to someone I get a response along these lines:
"Well, to me you'll always be the same person."
And they say that as if it's supposed to be a comforting thing.
Like, after coming out on my work Facebook page, someone said the following to me: "just know that to us you are and always will be Charlie the person we grew to love"
Or when my mom said "you'll always be my son to me," or my aunt said "you'll always be my perfect nephew."
I know it's good intentioned, trying to make me feel like people aren't going to think of me as some weirdo all of a sudden, but seriously, the whole point of being trans is that I want to NOT be Charlie, not be a son, and not be a nephew anymore...
Mom the other day was with her visiting nurse, and the nurse needed to check out a bruise mom had given herself thanks to a fall on her backside.
She needed to lift up her dress in the process of course and asked me to wander into the other room.
Hey I don't mind, some people are just that way even with their own gender. I don't mind humouring it at the moment.
But she is talking to the girl about me, and it's all about how great her kids are and that she has such a wonderful son.
Now there is a limit to how much I will indulge the old gal eh. I said from the kitchen 'you realize there is a problem with that comment eh mom?'. And when it was clear she was finished with the nurse examining her I walked into the living room and told the girl 'eventually there won't be any value in asking me to leave the room, I'm transgender and I am as much of a woman as you are' directed at the nurse in this case.
I know my mom is just an old woman and her ability to recall details in general could be better. But there are definitely times when I do have to remind her, she has a wonderful son (my brother) and two wonderful daughters not two wonderful sons and just one wonderful daughter (my sister).
And yes, I concur, it is annoying as Carrie mentioned, I don't want to be told 'I'll always be Leslie Robert' to them.
Just so long as they can deal with the fact I won't reply to that manner of address, and in the future, I will be writing aunt Lesley on greetings to my nieces and nephews.
May is a long time in some ways from now, and frankly, I am not really going to kill myself trying to get the wife shopping for a dress for my nieces wedding then (may 2014), I will likely be trying to find something in a nice modest low attention grabbing outfit for myself. I say low attention grabbing, because it is rude to upstage the bride.
The thing is, my current legal name has been a mistake that has merely escaped correction for 50 years.
I have no interest in maintaining the mistake.
A while ago I wrote about my misadventures in a major chain grocery store. (iirc, it was in my blog, which I have since deleted entirely).
Basically, they had a policy there to fold the receipt in half (where the name of the customer is printed) and say, "Thank you Mr. ___/Ms. ___! Have a great day!" or somesuch. But when I'd pay for my stuff, they'd fold it, read my name silently, then "Thank you! Have a great day!"
After a month of this, I talked to the manager...and a month later, I sent an email to "Corporate"...and 3 days later I get a call from Mr. Manager, very polite, very apologetic, he doesn't want to offend, sorry, yada yada...he assured me that he and the new asst manager (from Portland OR, which has a significant LGBT population) will bring the clerks up to speed on this issue of respect, etc etc.
So, I'm happy.
For a couple weeks.
Then I notice none of the clerks are reading the names to anyone, and when they say "thank you" they're not too sincere-sounding. In fact, I catch a couple of the clerks almost tossing the receipts at the customers!
When I get my turn, the clerk doesn't even glance towards me, he just says the total, and starts ringing up the next person... :-X
WTH, over? Did my complaint cause the store to change policy? From my perspective (and I will be calling the manager on this), it looks like they tried to get everyone there to use the customer's name as per past practice, but some clerks were adamant that they weren't going to address me by my name...perhaps they were threatened with being fired, so ALL the clerks decided to be asses and be rude to everyone...
Or the manager (or Corporate) decided to make a policy of not addressing customers by name, to avoid any potential lawsuit? What a loss...they used to be a very friendly store, where I enjoyed shopping.
*sigh*
Jeez! How hard is it to simply greet another human being with the name they prefer?
I'd say it was your second assumption Beth.
It's the common result, in our climate of zero tolerance zero brains sue immune society.
It IS a shame as you say.
"I wish you'd stop spitting like a boy."
I am a boy, so therefore I'm allowed to spit. Even if I identified as female I'm still allowed to spit. Spitting isn't exclusive to any gender.
So I called the store mangler yesterday, he denies any policy change (the clerks are still expected to address the customers by name) and he sounded a little pissed that the clerks were being so lax about the policy on the day he wasn't there (due to Labor Day holiday).
So I'm happy with his response...I decided not to mention the other problem, an employee was outside the door, happily BBQ'ing hotdogs and ribs...of course, I didn't buy any going into the store but on the way out the smells was just too much and I asked how much....she told me, but then said I'd have to pay inside.
THERE WERE BIG LINES INSIDE.
And I could tell she knew this, and was fully aware of the complications of NOT being able to pay *right there*, but it hadn't been her decision to make.
Some managers....sheesh.
" Dude you cant be a girl inside you like video games compedatively."
My friend told me this yesterday after playing a compedative Dota 2 game ... lol I guess girls arent allowed to enjoy digital entertainment.
Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on September 04, 2013, 01:36:16 PM
" Dude you cant be a girl inside you like video games compedatively."
Well, I'm a cis girl and I like video games. And what about Ricky Ortiz, hmm? One of the top Street Fighter players IN THE WORLD, and she is transitioning. (https://twitter.com/HelloKittyRicky (https://twitter.com/HelloKittyRicky)) Ugh.
Do you ever have those friends who are supportive and do refer to you with the right name and pronouns and stuff, but then they say something about it being a choice? And you feel bad about pointing out that it's not a choice because you know they mean well, but...
Quote from: Edge on September 22, 2013, 02:03:34 PM
Do you ever have those friends who are supportive and do refer to you with the right name and pronouns and stuff, but then they say something about it being a choice? And you feel bad about pointing out that it's not a choice because you know they mean well, but...
Sometimes 'support' IS support, but I think it is also always possible, that we call it support and it might be closer to them 'humouring' us. The might not really understand, they might not even want to understand, they might not care if they understand or not. Using proper manner of speech is free after all, and might simply not cost them anything.
They might also be just doing it for the points eh, some people like to be seen as 'supporters' of a cause. And the last thing I think any of us wants, it to be someone's poster example for a cause.
This is the all time worst one from my mom, she dosen't know i am one, after i let slip a crime against one of us "good, those people don't deserve to live."
Quote from: Edge on September 22, 2013, 02:03:34 PM
Do you ever have those friends who are supportive and do refer to you with the right name and pronouns and stuff, but then they say something about it being a choice? And you feel bad about pointing out that it's not a choice because you know they mean well, but...
I actually don't mind when someone refers to it as a choice. It's an opportunity to educate them, and I'm comfortable that I've taken it upon myself to educate my little part of the world about transgender (because no one else is going to do it).
I usually say, "to me, it didn't really feel like a choice."
Quote from: Xhianil on September 22, 2013, 04:22:30 PM
This is the all time worst one from my mom, she dosen't know i am one, after i let slip a crime against one of us "good, those people don't deserve to live."
:o
Wow...
Quote from: Xhianil on September 22, 2013, 04:22:30 PM
This is the all time worst one from my mom, she dosen't know i am one, after i let slip a crime against one of us "good, those people don't deserve to live."
There's a saying I read years ago...something about being careful what one says, for you may have to eat them tomorrow...
:(
Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 22, 2013, 06:51:48 PM
There's a saying I read years ago...something about being careful what one says, for you may have to eat them tomorrow...
:(
You may have to eat who? The person you're saying things to?
I'm just kidding....but the saying does make more sense if you make sure "words" is the subject of the sentence since
that is what you'll be eating in the morning.
Quote from: Xhianil on September 22, 2013, 04:22:30 PM
This is the all time worst one from my mom, she dosen't know i am one, after i let slip a crime against one of us "good, those people don't deserve to live."
Wow. She sounds like a real peach.
Quote from: Anonymous User on September 22, 2013, 07:14:26 PM
You may have to eat who? The person you're saying things to?
I'm just kidding....but the saying does make more sense if you make sure "words" is the subject of the sentence since that is what you'll be eating in the morning.
+1 English 101 to you.
;)
Today I was told that food stamps and other handouts made me trans by confusing me about my role in society.
Christ this thread has been heavy lately.
Quote from: Felix on September 25, 2013, 01:18:54 AM
Christ this thread has been heavy lately.
Well...it comes and goes. Whether brutal or light-hearted...it is what it is.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 25, 2013, 01:31:10 AM
Well...it comes and goes. Whether brutal or light-hearted...it is what it is.
Yeah I just felt bad adding to the heavy. Usually when I post a stupid reaction I've gotten I can be distant and snarky about it.
Quote from: Felix on September 25, 2013, 01:17:50 AM
Today I was told that food stamps and other handouts made me trans by confusing me about my role in society.
Seriously? ???
It amazes me how people fall over themselves to find reasons why someone isn't who they say they are (especially if they're young, and especially if they're not gender-stereotypical even as trans* people). I'm finding this with mental health issues too.
Quote from: Felix on September 25, 2013, 01:17:50 AM
Today I was told that food stamps and other handouts made me trans by confusing me about my role in society.
Occasionally I encounter comments of similar magnitude. My usual reaction is to react like the person is a complete and utter moron retard and about any other intellect questioning term that springs to my thoughts at the moment.
We all have this problem eventually. Stupidity in that level of severity is simply impossible to remain polite with.
Quote from: Felix on September 25, 2013, 01:17:50 AM
Today I was told that food stamps and other handouts made me trans by confusing me about my role in society.
I grew up with the admonition, "Real men *never* get on welfare...being dependent makes one less of a man."
Which is BS of course...real men take care of their family, by whatever means are available.
I know you're a good man and parent, Felix...some people will use whatever criticism they can to try and make one feel bad...and that's the reason for this thread: to show our brothers and sisters some of the garbage they may encounter, and to make them stronger by working out
within themselves "how would I respond to that?"
Thanks for sharing.
I thought that published stats showed vast numbers of relatively well-off families had been accessing food stamps due to the US economic crisis.
Quote from: Felix on September 25, 2013, 01:17:50 AM
Today I was told that food stamps and other handouts made me trans by confusing me about my role in society.
No, it makes you have common sense by doing what you need to do to look after yourself and your own.
Stubbornly refusing help which is there exactly because it is needed for certain situations in one's life doesn't make one anything other than stubborn. Gender has nothing to do with it.
To quote John Donne:
"No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main."
"and your therapist is sure that this is different than gay?"--my dad
I was talking with my sister in-law today about my upcoming appointment with my gender specialist. I told her that I was planing on scheduling my orchiectomy for sometime next year.
She replied back "are you sure? Thats a big decision."
Me "If I was unsure I would have stopped taking estrogen by now."
Her "So true. I'm so happy that you found YOU!!"
Quote from: Bethany Dawn on September 27, 2013, 07:21:25 PM
I was talking with my sister in-law today about my upcoming appointment with my gender specialist. I told her that I was planing on scheduling my orchiectomy for sometime next year.
She replied back "are you sure? Thats a big decision."
Me "If I was unsure I would have stopped taking estrogen by now."
Her "So true. I'm so happy that you found YOU!!"
Give that woman a hug from me!!! :)
My favorite line is: "God doesn't make mistakes. It must be you."
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 28, 2013, 04:46:34 PM
My favorite line is: "God doesn't make mistakes. It must be you."
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.headbloom.com%2Fimages%2Fuploads%2Fgod-farside.jpg&hash=9eeb9d6eb7021c3de128efe41cc5ede91415137b)
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 28, 2013, 04:46:34 PM
My favorite line is: "God doesn't make mistakes. It must be you."
If god did exist, he'd definitely be a he though. When you consider the lousy way everything seems to be since people started giving him credit.
It seemed a better place when everyone thought mother nature was responsible.
And mother nature wouldn't hate on me, she'd just expect me to make myself useful.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on September 28, 2013, 04:46:34 PM
My favorite line is: "God doesn't make mistakes. It must be you."
possible reply: "Well, G-d made people like you, too...what's your excuse?!"
New experience....
Guy gets on board my bus...he knows I'm transitioning. He asks "Does your work know?"
--Yes, they're the ones who gave me this nifty name badge with "Beth" on it...
"Do those (motioning towards my chest (44d)) feel like the real thing?"
--They are real.
"I bet you enjoy playing with them!"
--That's none of your business. >:(
A few minutes later, he asks if I can change the radio station, because "Devil went down to Georgia " is playing, and he says "..I'm a Christian, and dont like songs about the Devil..."
ARRGGHH...some people just don't get it...I mean come on, DwdtGA is a *great* song, amIright? ;)
Yeah, how dare he diss Charlie Daniels! I hate those people that just don't "get" great music!
It's been a while since I posted in here and now I have two...though one of them isn't about gender and was said to my partner rather than me I thought it was funny anyway so I'll start with that.
So the day before the Pride Festival, my other half is at work and one of his colleagues leans over and says "hey be careful to stay out of <city> tomorrow, it's gonna be full of queers"
To which my partner replied "yeah I know, I'll be wearing hot pants to the parade"
Several people overheard, including another gay guy in the group. His response: "Yep me too, don't forget to bring your gay card for the free drinks!"
The guy who gave the warning, rather than apologising or acting embarrassed, asked to see these "gay cards" - he thought they were a literal thing.
This same guy is constantly sexist and racist in casual conversation, there was a big ol' meeting the other day where everyone got interviewed about his behaviour, I really hope he gets fired, what an ass. If you're gonna be a bigot for crying out loud don't do it at work. I think his head might explode if he knew I was trans rather than just a common garden queer :P
-------------------------
ok second story...
For those who don't know, I have two sisters, one is awesome. The other is....well I haven't spoken to her in years, along with several other family members. I'll refer to them as good sister and bad sister :P
Good sister is babysitting my kiddo and takes a few photos of her to send to bad sister. I don't particularly like it when she does that, but whatever, as long as I don't have to interact with her. Bad sister then proceeds to post these photos on facebook and a whole bunch of people comment on it and like it and whatnot. My aunty then asks who's kid that is to which bad sister replies "That's <birth names> Daughter"
I actually have them both blocked, so I didn't see any of this. Good sister ended up calling me and was like "please don't be mad at bad sister she just didn't want to confuse aunty blah blah" and one of my friends sent me a screenshot, so apparently even though I have them blocked, facebook will still show everyone I know when I get tagged in something they post....even if those people decide to tag me (as my current name) and then say my old name anyway alongside the tag xD fantastic....just...fantastic.
"Can't you just dress and act like a man without mutilating your body?"
Please. I will wear skirts and I will look fabulous in them too. My clothing choices have nothing to do with my identity.
"You're a woman because you were socialized as female!"
Actually I was brought up as an alien. All joking aside, these types tend to rant about how all females experience a special kind of discrimination that shapes them as human beings, and that's why transgender identities are invalid. I have experienced very minimal gender-based discrimination which lasted for about three months, so obviously this logic is faulty. And honestly, making womanhood about discrimination? Really?
"Gender dysphoria can't be THAT bad!"
You're right, I only spend hours crying about the shape of my crotch which keeps me from sleeping at night. I mean, I can still function as a human being so I don't need any treatment. Ugh.
I'm just grateful that these are things said by people who don't matter to me. Heck, once one of the guys in our Skype chat made these extremely transphobic comments and I told my friends that either he had to leave or I would and they chose me. In the realm of things, I'm just really lucky that the people I care about are so supportive.
Quote from: OreSama on July 22, 2014, 11:27:58 AM
"All joking aside, these types tend to rant about how all females experience a special kind of discrimination that shapes them as human beings, and that's why transgender identities are invalid.
Ironic, isn't it, that most trans women have experienced enough discrimination easily to match most females nasty for nasty.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 21, 2014, 02:07:41 PM
New experience....
Guy gets on board my bus...he knows I'm transitioning. He asks "Does your work know?"
--Yes, they're the ones who gave me this nifty name badge with "Beth" on it...
"Do those (motioning towards my chest (44d)) feel like the real thing?"
--They are real.
"I bet you enjoy playing with them!"
--That's none of your business. >:(
A few minutes later, he asks if I can change the radio station, because "Devil went down to Georgia " is playing, and he says "..I'm a Christian, and dont like songs about the Devil..."
ARRGGHH...some people just don't get it...I mean come on, DwdtGA is a *great* song, amIright? ;)
Wow...What a grade A schmuck.
Quote from: suzifrommd on July 22, 2014, 01:52:05 PM
Ironic, isn't it, that most trans women have experienced enough discrimination easily to match most females nasty for nasty.
I know, right? Those types annoy me so much. Besides, life isn't a game of oppression olympics. We should just all be able to accept each other for who we are instead of telling people their feelings are wrong.
"You should be glad that you don't have periods"
"Are you gay?"
"You're so handsome."
"I don't think you will be happy as a woman, try getting a job.
Quote from: CosmicJoke on August 15, 2014, 06:57:33 PM
"I don't think you will be happy as a woman, try getting a job.
Hahaha what? How does that even make sense? =/ People be crazy yo.
"Man, I'm going to miss you."
You know, because I'm apparently an alien consciousness that has been host to this body for 33 years and is now returning to the mothership.
"You never hear about trans people in 3rd world countries because they have more important things to worry about besides their gender."
A quote from my brother which was not only ignorant of trans issues, but also extremely ignorant of foreign cultures. Pissed me off so much lmao.
Quote from: Ashlotte on August 24, 2014, 01:16:18 AM
"You never hear about trans people in 3rd world countries because they have more important things to worry about besides their gender."
A quote from my brother which was not only ignorant of trans issues, but also extremely ignorant of foreign cultures. Pissed me off so much lmao.
B-but.... I don't... I... What? I mean, we're generally not front page news but it's not like we never hear about that...
"If you found the right girl would you stop this?"
As if I'm only trying out a new way to date... ::)
Quote from: Claire (formerly Magdalena) on August 24, 2014, 09:06:03 AM
"If you found the right girl would you stop this?"
As if I'm only trying out a new way to date... ::)
lol... But I've already found the right girl, and I still want to transition. :P
From everybody I've told, 90% of the responses were immediately, "How does your (ex-husband) feel about this?"
Like dude.
I don't care?
He's actually cool with it, but I mean like, what would it matter? Like I need permission from him or something? Like, wtf even.
Quote from: Rawb on August 24, 2014, 09:17:26 AM
From everybody I've told, 90% of the responses were immediately, "How does your (ex-husband) feel about this?"
Like dude.
I don't care?
He's actually cool with it, but I mean like, what would it matter? Like I need permission from him or something? Like, wtf even.
haha that's funny and weird.
I had someone go "so...why do you even need to have surgery? You look like a total dude, who cares if you have boobs?" Um, I do?
I'm currently in the closet, but I did try to be "out" a few years ago..
Luckily, my parents "just wanted me to be happy", but they obviously didn't take me seriously. Not to mention they had some weird ideas..
For example: My Mom thought I must secretly be a "lesbian". I didn't catch onto it at first, but anytime I tried to talk to her when I was feeling especially dysphoric, she'd ask me if I was attracted to girls, "because other people like that are attracted to girls".
It wasn't until I saw that many people think that trans men are actually just extremely butch lesbian cis women that I realized that she was probably assuming that I was just a lesbian in denial. ::)
Then there was this one time I tried talking to my Dad about my gender.. He just tried coming up with reasons why I "think" I'm a man. Such as: "I heard that babies that are born premature can have identity issues later on in life."
Them: *transphobic and/or other insulting crap*
Me: This is why that's offensive and I'm pissed off about that.
Them: Omg you're so harsh and mean!
"I miss the old you." Apparently a sad angry man is more acceptable than a happy me?
One from the early days, but I keep running into variants:
"I do/like these opposite gender role things and I identify as the same gender as my sex. Am I trans?"
*headdesk*
Quote from: Edge on August 25, 2014, 04:30:22 PM
One from the early days, but I keep running into variants:
"I do/like these opposite gender role things and I identify as the same gender as my sex. Am I trans?"
*headdesk*
Ha. Yeah, those can be a bit irritating..
But so long as they're willing to learn the difference between being a gender and acting out certain "gender roles", I don't think these sort of comments are a big problem.
I mean, I used to think I
wasn't trans for similar reasons - I liked feminine things and thought that because of that fact, it's impossible for me to be a trans man. But I realized the flaw in that logic eventually.
Yeah, but it gets really annoying. Not to mention that the assumption that I am "really a woman" who is just transitioning for something that I consider on the same level as creationism is kind of insulting to me. I've gotten that too far more than I'd like.
Quote from: Edge on August 25, 2014, 10:25:06 PM
Yeah, but it gets really annoying. Not to mention that the assumption that I am "really a woman" who is just transitioning for something that I consider on the same level as creationism is kind of insulting to me. I've gotten that too far more than I'd like.
I understand. :P I'm sure I'll be complaining about the same thing if/when I come out, because I know I'll be getting similar remarks from people who're ignorant to that sort of thing.
I've also been told to "get out in the world." This was before I had even transitioned and all I wanted to do was eat, sleep, and play video games.
Get out into the world for what?
I was telling my sister that I'd gotten the date for my hysto. I had to sit there for half an hour and justify why such a thing was necessary. "but you'll go through the change!" .... I'm on T, it won't matter. "But you'll have to take that for the rest of your life!" ... uuuh I already have to do that ... "are you sure you can handle recovery?!" - pretty sure a few weeks of discomfort isn't going to kill me. "what if you change your mind?!" - seriously after 6/7 years of transition and chest surgery she still thinks changing my mind is an option. I'm amazed she didn't bring up the "what if you want more kids?" argument....maybe she understands me a tiny bit at least to know not to bring that up xD
I heard this yesterday,
"I don't want to sound rude, but... *Very rude question*..
by CIS female..
And these two,
" You'll always be my little girl / boy no matter what"..
Parents response to teen coming out to them..
"Are you angry because of the testosterone?"
No, I am naturally a very aggressive person.
"Really?"
Yes, really.
"Because I know taking steroids can affect aggression."
No really. I've been aggressive since I was a little kid.
"Well, you shouldn't be."
Well, I am.
"Well, you should stop."
Well, I'm not.
"You don't have to be like who you are. You can be like someone else instead."
Actually, I am like who I am.
"But it's ok to not be."
Not for me, it's not.
I don't know if this counts as I'm only out to my gf and her parents and brother, but my dad said 'there's something weird about you' this morning when I said I just slept in my boxes. yes, I'm trans, get a clue. his fave line when I do something really out of the ordinary in his world. maybe I should have told him I also sleep wearing my packer ;). Also my brother said top surgery was mutilation, but that was ages ago.
Its not really a line someone said,nor is it a direct ignorance towards trans people, but my sister has a blog called "woman in a man's world" and I'm just like honey you have no idea
One of my friends acted shocked when I told her I had a crush on someone and again when I told her I was dating someone. Last saturday, she asked me how things were going with my boyfriend and admitted that she thought something would ruin it (I can't remember her exact words). I'm not 100% it's trans related, but she didn't act this way or think that "something" would prevent my relationships from working before I came out as trans.
She also has never met my boyfriend and knows next to nothing about him.
Quote from: Liam Erik on August 25, 2014, 11:33:29 PM
I got a variant on that one - I got something like 'your top surgery is unnecessary because I can never tell that your chest isn't flat already!' :D So many wrongs... for one thing, how much physical pain and permanent damage do ya reckon has gone into that illusion in the last ten years? The answer is, a lot. Very much a lot.
I found out later that the same girl who said that was actually very homophobic and transphobic, but I would have had no clue...she seems pretty liberal and whatnot but no she actually is really opposed to transition.
"I don't understand how this is dysphoric for you, so here's a random assumption that makes no sense."
Not a trans issue so much as an orientation issue, but...
"If you are attracted to guys you must be gay. Only monosexuality exists."
"If you date guys, you must be gay because behaviour is the same as attraction."
"Your attraction to women must have randomly disappeared or have never existed because you're dating a guy."
"Wait a minute, so you have a *insert natal genitals here* or did you get a penis yet?"
Digging this ol' thing up because I heard a new one tonight...
*standing outside my bus, waiting for a passenger*
Man comes up and asks, "Are you trans?"
I smile and confirm that, yes I am trans..."Oh that's cool" he replies.
Female passenger gets onboard and apologizes for the man's question, "It was rude, and besides, it's obvious you are."
::)
Well yes I suppose it is... :P
"Transpeople are mentally ill! Transsexuality is a mental illness!"
followed by
"I support religious freedom for mental healthcare workers!"
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/27/475939114/tennessee-enacts-law-letting-therapists-refuse-patients-on-religious-grounds
My Father, Mother and at least two of my brothers told me separately and at different times over a two day period "You seem to be on some sort of transgender crusade" because I post Trans Items to them along with heaps of other stuff on Facebook...say one in 5 may have some kind of Tran's reference...Go figure
LOL!
Like I keep saying (and saying) this sort of ignorance seems mostly found in the USA with conservative, white evangelical Christians.
Urban Americans, especially Democrats, are more likely to accept transgender people.
The Europeans I've met here in Thailand, and the Thai, seem blase and indifferent to transgender people. Since Thai people self-identify gender as they speak, we don't have to guess.
Although everyone seems cool with it here, Thai elementary kids tease each other the same way American kids do.
For instance, the other day, a 4rth grade boy did something silly and one of friends casually called him a "kathoey" (she-male).
But nobody seemed to care or notice.