Community Conversation => Transitioning => Voice Therapy and Surgery => Topic started by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:09:10 PM Return to Full Version
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:09:10 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:09:10 PM
Hi everyone! I have been looking into this place "Yeson Voice Center" more and more. My practiced female voice is coming along but I am still finding great difficulty using it around people I already knew- which leads to difficulties across the board. I want to use it all the time but just... can't... for some reason.
From what I have found, Yeson seems to offer the safest and least invasive voice surgery out there, and according to them they have done over a hundred voices with about an 80% satisfaction rate. The other 20% mainly just felt they did not have enough change- there has been not a single patient who has had any sort of complication that made the voice worse.. aka no risk of losing the voice or sounding hoarse.
I guess the main reason I am so interested is (probably like anyone considering voice surgery): it would "force" me to have the correct voice no matter who I am around. When I do find the confidence to use a near female voice around my friends they seem to respond well, but i find it incredibly unnatural to keep the pitch up- yet I can feel the goodness as they really start to gender me properly from all angles due the way I sound. It's just soooo harrrrdd.. Especially talking loudly which I seem to have to frequently do- because I go to lots of musical events talking to someone in the midst of a loud sound system trying to pass. My voice gets worn out sooo fast like this. Also I laugh a ton, and it's a dead giveaway when I'm trying to pass. I don't want to hate my laugh for that or try to learn a new laugh that doesn't just come from within.
Anyone have experience with Yeson or know someone who's used them? I've already emailed Yeson and they were super on top of getting back to me about my initial questions, but I would love to chat with someone who's actually done the surgery and lives in the US if possible.
Thank you in advance girlies <3 <3
From what I have found, Yeson seems to offer the safest and least invasive voice surgery out there, and according to them they have done over a hundred voices with about an 80% satisfaction rate. The other 20% mainly just felt they did not have enough change- there has been not a single patient who has had any sort of complication that made the voice worse.. aka no risk of losing the voice or sounding hoarse.
I guess the main reason I am so interested is (probably like anyone considering voice surgery): it would "force" me to have the correct voice no matter who I am around. When I do find the confidence to use a near female voice around my friends they seem to respond well, but i find it incredibly unnatural to keep the pitch up- yet I can feel the goodness as they really start to gender me properly from all angles due the way I sound. It's just soooo harrrrdd.. Especially talking loudly which I seem to have to frequently do- because I go to lots of musical events talking to someone in the midst of a loud sound system trying to pass. My voice gets worn out sooo fast like this. Also I laugh a ton, and it's a dead giveaway when I'm trying to pass. I don't want to hate my laugh for that or try to learn a new laugh that doesn't just come from within.
Anyone have experience with Yeson or know someone who's used them? I've already emailed Yeson and they were super on top of getting back to me about my initial questions, but I would love to chat with someone who's actually done the surgery and lives in the US if possible.
Thank you in advance girlies <3 <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 06:20:12 PM
Post by: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 06:20:12 PM
I had mentioned once before here somewhere that there is a nose & Throat specialist in Portland, Oregon that does a non-invasive procedure of shaving male vocal chords to bring them within similar specs as that of a cis female, people from all over the country have seen him and have gone away satisfied. I went with a TG girlfriend who had it done and sounded pretty good afterward and would have sounded a lot better if she had listened to him about not smoking while she was healing, the dumb ass!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:30:17 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:30:17 PM
Hi Shantel! :D
Portland is a heck of a lot closer than Korea :)
I am really curious to know which doctor. I haven't heard of any non invasive ops in PDX... I've only heard of Dr. Thomas' laryngoplasty which is about the most invasive one can get and suuuuper risky it seems.
Portland is a heck of a lot closer than Korea :)
I am really curious to know which doctor. I haven't heard of any non invasive ops in PDX... I've only heard of Dr. Thomas' laryngoplasty which is about the most invasive one can get and suuuuper risky it seems.
Quote from: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 06:20:12 PM
I had mentioned once before here somewhere that there is a nose & Throat specialist in Portland, Oregon that does a non-invasive procedure of shaving male vocal chords to bring them within similar specs as that of a cis female, people from all over the country have seen him and have gone away satisfied. I went with a TG girlfriend who had it done and sounded pretty good afterward and would have sounded a lot better if she had listened to him about not smoking while she was healing, the dumb ass!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 06:40:00 PM
Post by: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 06:40:00 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:30:17 PM
Hi Shantel! :D
Portland is a heck of a lot closer than Korea :)
I am really curious to know which doctor. I haven't heard of any non invasive ops in PDX... I've only heard of Dr. Thomas' laryngoplasty which is about the most invasive one can get and suuuuper risky it seems.
Well I might be mistaken but I think Dr Thomas was the guy. I think my friend had her trach shave and that procedure done at the same time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
Well I'm glad to hear she had a good result :)
Personally I think Dr. Kim's method at Yeson sounds wonderful... No incision... VERY consistent result... No complications.
When I checked out Dr. Thomas' work a while ago I saw videos of a few patients that sounded absolutely incredible. But then I also heard a few examples that made me vow to never have that procedure... He literally takes the voice box OUT and reshapes it (so there is an incision over the neck), shortens the vocal chords, and then once healed lasers the chords as an attempt to correct imbalances of tension. I've heard too many hoarse & straining women's voices for me to ever consider it :/ Sorry if that is harsh. It just seems like one of the riskiest ways to do it, but maybe I am wrong.
Dr. Kim goes down with an endoscope, and puts a suture to tie the chords together so that only about 2/3 of the vocal chords can vibrate. Kind of like putting a capo on a guitar if you ask me. Recovery is 7 days no talking, 2 months minimal talking, and the voice continues to improve over the course of the year. But, by two months it is already supposed to be pretty close if you are a good girl, don't smoke, and take care of yourself.
I really hope someone active here has tried it!
Personally I think Dr. Kim's method at Yeson sounds wonderful... No incision... VERY consistent result... No complications.
When I checked out Dr. Thomas' work a while ago I saw videos of a few patients that sounded absolutely incredible. But then I also heard a few examples that made me vow to never have that procedure... He literally takes the voice box OUT and reshapes it (so there is an incision over the neck), shortens the vocal chords, and then once healed lasers the chords as an attempt to correct imbalances of tension. I've heard too many hoarse & straining women's voices for me to ever consider it :/ Sorry if that is harsh. It just seems like one of the riskiest ways to do it, but maybe I am wrong.
Dr. Kim goes down with an endoscope, and puts a suture to tie the chords together so that only about 2/3 of the vocal chords can vibrate. Kind of like putting a capo on a guitar if you ask me. Recovery is 7 days no talking, 2 months minimal talking, and the voice continues to improve over the course of the year. But, by two months it is already supposed to be pretty close if you are a good girl, don't smoke, and take care of yourself.
I really hope someone active here has tried it!
Quote from: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 06:40:00 PM
Well I might be mistaken but I think Dr Thomas was the guy. I think my friend had her trach shave and that procedure done at the same time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: XchristineX on April 22, 2013, 08:11:44 PM
Post by: XchristineX on April 22, 2013, 08:11:44 PM
I myself also would just love to go to the yeson voice center
From what I understand he can do godly work for ts girla voices!!!
From what I understand he can do godly work for ts girla voices!!!
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 09:16:20 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 09:16:20 PM
IKNORITE?!
I'm considering it heavily- I've been working my butt off and I can afford it, like, now.. very tempting to schedule and buy some plane tickets. I just wanna see if there's anyone here with any experiences to share.
Visiting Korea would be amazing, too. Yikes
I'm considering it heavily- I've been working my butt off and I can afford it, like, now.. very tempting to schedule and buy some plane tickets. I just wanna see if there's anyone here with any experiences to share.
Visiting Korea would be amazing, too. Yikes
Quote from: XchristineX on April 22, 2013, 08:11:44 PM
I myself also would just love to go to the yeson voice center
From what I understand he can do godly work for ts girla voices!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rowan Rue on April 22, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
Post by: Rowan Rue on April 22, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
Hmm, this sounds very interesting. Voice surgery is something I'm interested in because Before I started transition I had JUST started to develop a good vocal range for singing and, well, now it's gone. It makes me really sad because I love to sing and it would be amazign if I had a chance at a normal female range.
Jenny, I know what you mean about talking to people who you knew before transition. I had exactly the same problem. Jus feeling super self conscious around them. Do you find that with everyone who knew you before or just some people? There are a few people who I just had to cut out of my life for a while because I just couldn't feel comfortable around them. More recently I saw one of them again and it wasn't an issue (the idea of trying to speak in my old voice just seemed too odd). Maybe just try taking some time off from old friendships?
Jenny, I know what you mean about talking to people who you knew before transition. I had exactly the same problem. Jus feeling super self conscious around them. Do you find that with everyone who knew you before or just some people? There are a few people who I just had to cut out of my life for a while because I just couldn't feel comfortable around them. More recently I saw one of them again and it wasn't an issue (the idea of trying to speak in my old voice just seemed too odd). Maybe just try taking some time off from old friendships?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 10:49:20 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 10:49:20 PM
I find it to be the case with pretty much everyone and it ends up making me feel self conscious even around people I don't know. Taking a break from friendships is impossible, too. Not only do I live, eat, sleep, and socialize with all of them, I love them too dearly to ever consider it :) I have a huge inner circle of friends, probably 30 or 40 people, and I live with 13 of them.
I've changed my inflection and word choice dramatically, but only rarely am I ever able to hold a pitch that is close to female unless I am alone or feeling especially good after a really good practice session.
I guess that's why I feel like VFS is a good option in my situation, because then my voice would be natural regardless... aka not trying at all to sound a certain way- just letting it happen. And immediately everything else would fall into place, too: sighing, laughing, singing, yawning, etc. I'm also really excited about the singing aspect.
Anybody wanna go to Korea with me and be silent sisters for a week? Lol...
Seriously though, I might do this like... sooooon :)
I've changed my inflection and word choice dramatically, but only rarely am I ever able to hold a pitch that is close to female unless I am alone or feeling especially good after a really good practice session.
I guess that's why I feel like VFS is a good option in my situation, because then my voice would be natural regardless... aka not trying at all to sound a certain way- just letting it happen. And immediately everything else would fall into place, too: sighing, laughing, singing, yawning, etc. I'm also really excited about the singing aspect.
Anybody wanna go to Korea with me and be silent sisters for a week? Lol...
Seriously though, I might do this like... sooooon :)
Quote from: Rowan Rue on April 22, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
Hmm, this sounds very interesting. Voice surgery is something I'm interested in because Before I started transition I had JUST started to develop a good vocal range for singing and, well, now it's gone. It makes me really sad because I love to sing and it would be amazign if I had a chance at a normal female range.
Jenny, I know what you mean about talking to people who you knew before transition. I had exactly the same problem. Jus feeling super self conscious around them. Do you find that with everyone who knew you before or just some people? There are a few people who I just had to cut out of my life for a while because I just couldn't feel comfortable around them. More recently I saw one of them again and it wasn't an issue (the idea of trying to speak in my old voice just seemed too odd). Maybe just try taking some time off from old friendships?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 10:53:15 PM
Post by: Shantel on April 22, 2013, 10:53:15 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
Well I'm glad to hear she had a good result :)
Personally I think Dr. Kim's method at Yeson sounds wonderful... No incision... VERY consistent result... No complications.
Dr. Kim goes down with an endoscope, and puts a suture to tie the chords together so that only about 2/3 of the vocal chords can vibrate. Kind of like putting a capo on a guitar if you ask me. Recovery is 7 days no talking, 2 months minimal talking, and the voice continues to improve over the course of the year. But, by two months it is already supposed to be pretty close if you are a good girl, don't smoke, and take care of yourself.
I really hope someone active here has tried it!
That makes a lot of sense and sounds like the way to go!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on April 23, 2013, 05:53:01 AM
Post by: kathyp on April 23, 2013, 05:53:01 AM
I just recently discovered this voice doctor in Rochester, Ny so right now my short list is Yeson
or this clinic.I found Dr. Thomas approach to be a little to much like an experiment.
http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx (http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx)
kathy
or this clinic.I found Dr. Thomas approach to be a little to much like an experiment.
http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx (http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx)
kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: XchristineX on April 23, 2013, 08:40:07 AM
Post by: XchristineX on April 23, 2013, 08:40:07 AM
And another group of Asian medical professionals that discriminate
Against people with hiv...
Against people with hiv...
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 10:29:16 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 10:29:16 AM
I just saw that one yesterday. Then I saw a video of what they actually do with the laser... It's looks like they laser out a canal on each side and sew it back up. Kind of harsh looking.
Also they do make an incision on the throat.
Also they do make an incision on the throat.
Quote from: kathyp on April 23, 2013, 05:53:01 AM
I just recently discovered this voice doctor in Rochester, Ny so right now my short list is Yeson
or this clinic.I found Dr. Thomas approach to be a little to much like an experiment.
http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx (http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx)
kathy
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 10:33:26 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 10:33:26 AM
So if I understand correctly you can't go to Yeson?? :(
Quote from: XchristineX on April 23, 2013, 08:40:07 AM
And another group of Asian medical professionals that discriminate
Against people with hiv...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: XchristineX on April 23, 2013, 11:05:32 AM
Post by: XchristineX on April 23, 2013, 11:05:32 AM
Apparwntly not to any Asian doctor....
Regardless of physical condition...
Which is shocking. .some poz girls are stronger and healthier
Than non poZ girls...we're heavily maintained for everything...
Regardless of physical condition...
Which is shocking. .some poz girls are stronger and healthier
Than non poZ girls...we're heavily maintained for everything...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Ltl89 on April 23, 2013, 11:31:09 AM
Post by: Ltl89 on April 23, 2013, 11:31:09 AM
I really wish you luck Jenny. I haven't heard of too many positive things about these procedures, but that may be due to ignorance and lack of research. But do be careful. You only have one voice and you don't want to risk damaging it. Personally, it sounds appealing if I ignore all the fears about going through surgery. Yet, I have always been told that the best results come from training your voice and that these surgeries could create additional issues. However, you seem to be making a good case for it. Now I am going to have to do some research on this because I didn't know it was a viable option. If it works and isn't terribly expensive, I may consider this in the future.
In any event, I wish you lots of luck and hope you get great results if you go down this path. Just be sure to be safe.
In any event, I wish you lots of luck and hope you get great results if you go down this path. Just be sure to be safe.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: XchristineX on April 23, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: XchristineX on April 23, 2013, 11:38:00 AM
Yea lol in all honesty I am 5 ft 11
Zukowski told me to never ever modify my voice
Apparently pitch is perfect ..I know lots of native girls
Where I'm from with voices deeper than mine.....
And they are the same height....
Zukowski told me to never ever modify my voice
Apparently pitch is perfect ..I know lots of native girls
Where I'm from with voices deeper than mine.....
And they are the same height....
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 02:09:23 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 02:09:23 PM
Thank you so much for the caring thoughts, I am being as cautious as ever. Honestly I wouldn't let any doctor in the US touch my vocal chords after reading through the process of their procedures.
I went to Ousterhout for my trach shave and paid an arm and a leg for that procedure because I wanted it done right with no complications- and no visible scar. I'm not going to ever get a surgery unless I feel it's the best of the best of the best. Ousterhout was well worth it and I could not be happier with my results.
For some reason I just have a really good feeling about Yeson, similar to how I felt about Dr O. I think because with Yeson, it is such a minimally invasive procedure and also that they are specialists. They know how to do one thing and one thing only: help people with their voices.
I think generally most doctors still don't know that Yeson exists, and the recommendation against CTA or laryngoplasty or thinning the vocal chords with laser does make sense to me. The results seem too choppy. And it's true, you do only get one voice. If there is a risk of losing it completely, why would any smart doctor recommend it when you can get close enough with proper training? Maybe though if they knew about this procedure and started seeing continued good statistics they would see that maybe not all vocal surgeries are practiced equally. This one, at Yeson, apparently carries zero risk of losing the voice or developing a bad vocal texture. The only complication is seeing little to no improvement. There have been no other complications that send someone in the reverse direction. Sounds like the work of a specialist to me.
I went to Ousterhout for my trach shave and paid an arm and a leg for that procedure because I wanted it done right with no complications- and no visible scar. I'm not going to ever get a surgery unless I feel it's the best of the best of the best. Ousterhout was well worth it and I could not be happier with my results.
For some reason I just have a really good feeling about Yeson, similar to how I felt about Dr O. I think because with Yeson, it is such a minimally invasive procedure and also that they are specialists. They know how to do one thing and one thing only: help people with their voices.
I think generally most doctors still don't know that Yeson exists, and the recommendation against CTA or laryngoplasty or thinning the vocal chords with laser does make sense to me. The results seem too choppy. And it's true, you do only get one voice. If there is a risk of losing it completely, why would any smart doctor recommend it when you can get close enough with proper training? Maybe though if they knew about this procedure and started seeing continued good statistics they would see that maybe not all vocal surgeries are practiced equally. This one, at Yeson, apparently carries zero risk of losing the voice or developing a bad vocal texture. The only complication is seeing little to no improvement. There have been no other complications that send someone in the reverse direction. Sounds like the work of a specialist to me.
Quote from: learningtolive on April 23, 2013, 11:31:09 AM
I really wish you luck Jenny. I haven't heard of too many positive things about these procedures, but that may be due to ignorance and lack of research. But do be careful. You only have one voice and you don't want to risk damaging it. Personally, it sounds appealing if I ignore all the fears about going through surgery. Yet, I have always been told that the best results come from training your voice and that these surgeries could create additional issues. However, you seem to be making a good case for it. Now I am going to have to do some research on this because I didn't know it was a viable option. If it works and isn't terribly expensive, I may consider this in the future.
In any event, I wish you lots of luck and hope you get great results if you go down this path. Just be sure to be safe.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on April 23, 2013, 06:32:42 PM
Post by: Shantel on April 23, 2013, 06:32:42 PM
Jenny,
Sounds like you've done your homework which is soo smart. On your way to South Korea stop by Seattle and visit me and Rowan Ru, you're one of my kids and I want to hug you and kiss that pretty face!
Sounds like you've done your homework which is soo smart. On your way to South Korea stop by Seattle and visit me and Rowan Ru, you're one of my kids and I want to hug you and kiss that pretty face!
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 08:16:28 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 08:16:28 PM
Haha aww Aunt Shanty <3
I am thinking about making a trip up there in November or December so please hold tight :)
Okay I am kind of a ball of excitement right now to say the least. I might be going to Korea on May 12th. If my friend is able to accompany me then, I'll be having the operation on May 15th. Yuupppp!
Words. I have none. Too much nervous excitement. Does not translate into verbal semantics.
I am thinking about making a trip up there in November or December so please hold tight :)
Okay I am kind of a ball of excitement right now to say the least. I might be going to Korea on May 12th. If my friend is able to accompany me then, I'll be having the operation on May 15th. Yuupppp!
Words. I have none. Too much nervous excitement. Does not translate into verbal semantics.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on April 23, 2013, 09:03:37 PM
Post by: Shantel on April 23, 2013, 09:03:37 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 08:16:28 PM
Haha aww Aunt Shanty <3
I am thinking about making a trip up there in November or December so please hold tight :)
Okay I am kind of a ball of excitement right now to say the least. I might be going to Korea on May 12th. If my friend is able to accompany me then, I'll be having the operation on May 15th. Yuupppp!
Words. I have none. Too much nervous excitement. Does not translate into verbal semantics.
Whoa girl, that date is coming up fast. You're on a roll girl!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Ltl89 on April 23, 2013, 10:37:30 PM
Post by: Ltl89 on April 23, 2013, 10:37:30 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 08:16:28 PM
Haha aww Aunt Shanty <3
I am thinking about making a trip up there in November or December so please hold tight :)
Okay I am kind of a ball of excitement right now to say the least. I might be going to Korea on May 12th. If my friend is able to accompany me then, I'll be having the operation on May 15th. Yuupppp!
Words. I have none. Too much nervous excitement. Does not translate into verbal semantics.
Wow, that's very soon! Good luck and I hope the results are amazing!
Please be sure to let us know how it goes. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rowan Rue on April 24, 2013, 12:34:02 AM
Post by: Rowan Rue on April 24, 2013, 12:34:02 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 23, 2013, 08:16:28 PM
Haha aww Aunt Shanty <3
I am thinking about making a trip up there in November or December so please hold tight :)
Okay I am kind of a ball of excitement right now to say the least. I might be going to Korea on May 12th. If my friend is able to accompany me then, I'll be having the operation on May 15th. Yuupppp!
Words. I have none. Too much nervous excitement. Does not translate into verbal semantics.
That's fantastic :) I really hope that works out for you Jenny!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 24, 2013, 02:45:17 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 24, 2013, 02:45:17 AM
Thank you for such warm wishes everyone!! Your support means a lot to me.
Even with all the positive statistics, I am still a little nervous.. it is after all a surgery.
I got my confirmation email... I'm all set for the 15th :D
Even with all the positive statistics, I am still a little nervous.. it is after all a surgery.
I got my confirmation email... I'm all set for the 15th :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on April 25, 2013, 06:06:33 AM
Post by: Kate_H on April 25, 2013, 06:06:33 AM
Hi, first post for me here \o/
I checked out Yeson back in 2010 and got as far as getting a quote from them, but decided to redirect my meager funds towards FFS instead, and have been struggling with voice since 2008. My first choice had always been Dr. Thomas (The Voice Doctor in Portland) but that would have been an expensive excursion way beyond my means at the time, so I looked heavily into Yeson which I figured I could do within £5000 (UK). But then financial barriers got in the way and I couldn't really afford it, so tried to get help from the NHS Scotland, but they wouldnt fund anything - not even CTA surgery which is regularly practiced for NHS England patients. That fight is still ongoing, but I'm looking with interest again at Yeson as there's more info *out there* now, and the results seem very good, the procedure quite mild by comparison, so I really look forward with interest to your experiences, Jenny :)
Kate
I checked out Yeson back in 2010 and got as far as getting a quote from them, but decided to redirect my meager funds towards FFS instead, and have been struggling with voice since 2008. My first choice had always been Dr. Thomas (The Voice Doctor in Portland) but that would have been an expensive excursion way beyond my means at the time, so I looked heavily into Yeson which I figured I could do within £5000 (UK). But then financial barriers got in the way and I couldn't really afford it, so tried to get help from the NHS Scotland, but they wouldnt fund anything - not even CTA surgery which is regularly practiced for NHS England patients. That fight is still ongoing, but I'm looking with interest again at Yeson as there's more info *out there* now, and the results seem very good, the procedure quite mild by comparison, so I really look forward with interest to your experiences, Jenny :)
Kate
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 25, 2013, 10:50:34 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 25, 2013, 10:50:34 AM
If you are interested, I think I will blog about the recovery process in this thread. I know to expect a sore throat for a few days, possible hoarseness that will go away within a couple of weeks of being able to talk minimally, and maybe some difficulty swallowing for a little while.
I have a great feeling about the procedure & the doctor and do not expect any major complications (or else I wouldn't be doing this surgery at all, really).
Also I am going to go back on a more strict low sugar diet to aid my immune response, too- so I will hopefully avoid any chance of getting sick / catching a cold.
I got my tickets last night! I am 100% ready now :) I fly out on the 12th and I'm back in the states on the 23rd. The 12th can't seem to come soon enough- but I know the next two weeks are going to fly by at lightning speed as I mentally ramp up and prepare for this whole thing.
I'll keep you updated! Thank you again for the support :)
I have a great feeling about the procedure & the doctor and do not expect any major complications (or else I wouldn't be doing this surgery at all, really).
Also I am going to go back on a more strict low sugar diet to aid my immune response, too- so I will hopefully avoid any chance of getting sick / catching a cold.
I got my tickets last night! I am 100% ready now :) I fly out on the 12th and I'm back in the states on the 23rd. The 12th can't seem to come soon enough- but I know the next two weeks are going to fly by at lightning speed as I mentally ramp up and prepare for this whole thing.
I'll keep you updated! Thank you again for the support :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on April 25, 2013, 02:57:15 PM
Post by: Kate_H on April 25, 2013, 02:57:15 PM
Awesome, look forward to following your progress \o/
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on April 25, 2013, 03:11:29 PM
Post by: Shantel on April 25, 2013, 03:11:29 PM
Best wishes on this new adventure JennyGirl! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: XchristineX on April 26, 2013, 05:49:18 PM
Post by: XchristineX on April 26, 2013, 05:49:18 PM
I have a voice surgeon in USA that agreed to
Take me.....
This particular surgeon has a 80 percent satisfaction rate...
Worst being is no change in voice....
Take me.....
This particular surgeon has a 80 percent satisfaction rate...
Worst being is no change in voice....
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 26, 2013, 06:28:17 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 26, 2013, 06:28:17 PM
Quote from: XchristineX on April 26, 2013, 05:49:18 PM
I have a voice surgeon in USA that agreed to
Take me.....
This particular surgeon has a 80 percent satisfaction rate...
Worst being is no change in voice....
That's great to hear you found a good one, Christine! Which doctor is it and do you know what the procedure is called if you don't mind me asking? I wasn't able to find anything in the states but CTA, laser thinning, and Dr. Thomas' approach.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: XchristineX on April 26, 2013, 06:33:28 PM
Post by: XchristineX on April 26, 2013, 06:33:28 PM
http://bevhillstg.com/procedures/voice-modification/ (http://bevhillstg.com/procedures/voice-modification/)
It appears like a very good technique and nicely priced
It appears like a very good technique and nicely priced
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on April 26, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
Post by: barbie on April 26, 2013, 07:23:37 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 25, 2013, 10:50:34 AMJenny,
I got my tickets last night! I am 100% ready now :) I fly out on the 12th and I'm back in the states on the 23rd. The 12th can't seem to come soon enough- but I know the next two weeks are going to fly by at lightning speed as I mentally ramp up and prepare for this whole thing.
I'll keep you updated! Thank you again for the support :)
I sometimes go to Seoul, but have no plan of being there yet. I live in Jeju island and it takes about 4 hour to gangnam.
May is a nice time to tour around Seoul, especially buddhism temples. As May 17 is a national holiday (buddha's birthday), a lot of people will travel, and my brother's family will visit here.
I will fly to St Petersburg, Russia, on May 21 via Incheon airport at 17:45.
If you have any question on staying in Seoul, pls let me know or send PM.
Me in Insa dong (old town) of Seoul last summer.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi943.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad278%2Fbarbie_pictures%2FOutdoors%2F20120815es.jpg&hash=f5c80c2a303c90ecc93ccb7a0c77be39614143e4)
Gangnam is a kind of new town. You can see more historic and traditional places in Gangbuk (old town north of Han river).
Barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 28, 2013, 05:34:25 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 28, 2013, 05:34:25 AM
Thanks for the info, barbie!
I am reeaally looking forward to the lotus lantern festival. Also, I'm thinking it is probably time to book a hotel now- seems like it's going to be a crowded time to be there. I might check out the world dj festival as well.
Lovely pic of you, by the way :)
Thanks again for the info and I'll PM you if I can think of any questions!
I am reeaally looking forward to the lotus lantern festival. Also, I'm thinking it is probably time to book a hotel now- seems like it's going to be a crowded time to be there. I might check out the world dj festival as well.
Lovely pic of you, by the way :)
Thanks again for the info and I'll PM you if I can think of any questions!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on April 29, 2013, 03:43:52 AM
Post by: Jamie D on April 29, 2013, 03:43:52 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 24, 2013, 02:45:17 AM
Thank you for such warm wishes everyone!! Your support means a lot to me.
Even with all the positive statistics, I am still a little nervous.. it is after all a surgery.
I got my confirmation email... I'm all set for the 15th :D
Fantastic.
Avoid gaebul. It is a marine burrowing worm.
They are generally eaten alive.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on April 29, 2013, 06:16:29 AM
Post by: barbie on April 29, 2013, 06:16:29 AM
Quote from: Jamie D on April 29, 2013, 03:43:52 AM
Fantastic.
Avoid gaebul. It is a marine burrowing worm.
They are generally eaten alive.
I love gaebul, although most people in Seoul and other inland areas hesitate to eat it. It's good for your health, and tastes sweet. Even some people from Seoul do not eat live oyster. As I grew out in an island, I eat every living thing from the sea, except some worms.
Another popular marine dish is live octopus. The cook slices it to very fine pieces, but they are still alive. You can feel it wiggling in your tongue. In Gangnam area, you can find it easily in sea food restaurants. And you may also try live sea cucumber.
All of those live invertebrates come with the main dish, sashimi (fresh bone fish, or teleost).
I once guided a bunch of people from Europe and America, and all of them ate very well the live octopus dish, but disappointingly they did not dare to try fermented skate dish. Skate naturally give out ammonia while they undergo fermentation. Ammonia is very effective in preventing dementia (Parkinson's disease). Only one friend from the US tried just one slice of the skate dish, and never again.
In Gangnam area, there are also many western-style restaurants, but if you want a kind of traditional ones, Gangbuk (old town) is better.
Finally, the hotel prices are relatively expensive in Gangnam area, but usually less than $200 per night. I usually stay at Novotel Ambassador hotel at a discounted rate of $150 per night. In less crowded areas, you can find economic hotels at $50 per night. Maybe the staff in Yeson clinic can arrange affordable hotels for you.
And finally, you will see many pretty and fashion-conscious girls in Gangnam area.
Barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 29, 2013, 06:24:46 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 29, 2013, 06:24:46 AM
Wow great info!
Thanks barbie!!
I just booked my hotel... I'm staying at Hotel Prince Seoul in the Myeongdong area. It is about $120 a night for me and a friend, not too bad if you ask me. 10 nights is what makes it expensive. Apparently right along a huge shopping strip though.. Excited :D
Also I can't wait to try some good food- I'm adventurous when it comes to tastes so I really appreciate the recommendations.
Thanks barbie!!
I just booked my hotel... I'm staying at Hotel Prince Seoul in the Myeongdong area. It is about $120 a night for me and a friend, not too bad if you ask me. 10 nights is what makes it expensive. Apparently right along a huge shopping strip though.. Excited :D
Also I can't wait to try some good food- I'm adventurous when it comes to tastes so I really appreciate the recommendations.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on April 29, 2013, 06:49:47 AM
Post by: barbie on April 29, 2013, 06:49:47 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 29, 2013, 06:24:46 AM
Wow great info!
Thanks barbie!!
I just booked my hotel... I'm staying at Hotel Prince Seoul in the Myeongdong area. It is about $120 a night for me and a friend, not too bad if you ask me. 10 nights is what makes it expensive. Apparently right along a huge shopping strip though.. Excited :D
Also I can't wait to try some good food- I'm adventurous when it comes to tastes so I really appreciate the recommendations.
Jenny,
You already booked hotels. Hotels in Myeongdong area are generally relatively old, but a merit is that many foreign visitors, especially from Japan, stay there, and the hotel staffs can speak in English. Myeongdong is located in the old town (Gangbuk) and a most famous shopping destination in Seoul. Signs and menu of most restaurant are in English and Japanese. There are many historic sites including palaces and temples. You may just walk around there, even at midnight. Seoul is a kind of never-sleeping city. You can eat and drink for 24 hours.
You can reach the clinic through subway. The subway network is very complex, but once you learn, it is very convenient. You have better purchase a kind of electronic passing card from any convenient store such as Seven Eleven or GS25, which can be used for both subway and public bus. It takes just about 1 US$ from Myeongdong to Gangnam, and you may purchase a prepaid card of about $10 deposit.
Just walk around in Myeongdong, and you can find virtually every kind of restaurant in the world. The prices are far less expensive than in Tokyo or New York, but you can choose very expensive and special restaurants, too.
Any smartphone with Google map will help you greatly find any place in Seoul. In Seoul, there are many free wi-fi areas, including the hotel.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on April 29, 2013, 08:17:28 AM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on April 29, 2013, 08:17:28 AM
Hmmmmm, well, I was meaning to go to Korea already :-) And I was already very interested in this, so actually, it seems like it could be a good option. I am really interested to hear how it goes.
I hope everything goes well for you ^_^
I hope everything goes well for you ^_^
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on April 30, 2013, 05:39:55 AM
Post by: Kate_H on April 30, 2013, 05:39:55 AM
Dreamt that I was there for the procedure last night! I think it may be a sign, lol.. I'm super-excited for you Jenny, and can't wait to hear how you get on :) I'd love to get this done next year if I can afford it. I'm already committed to a certain other surgical procedure this year as it is, lol
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on May 10, 2013, 05:17:21 AM
Post by: Kate_H on May 10, 2013, 05:17:21 AM
2 days to go! Good luck - not that you'll need it, but its what's said for these kind of things, lol :)
\o/
\o/
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 10, 2013, 06:16:59 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 10, 2013, 06:16:59 AM
Thank you!! As I won't be able to talk for 7 days, I'm sure I'll be updating here with how I feel. And then after 7 days I can finally hear it for the first time. I have a feeling it will be one of the truest tests of patience so far in my life.
I'm prepared to experience some hoarseness at first. I know I will have to be patient to really hear the result. But I also feel like it will probably be quite a bit different immediately (when I am allowed to talk), too :)
I'm prepared to experience some hoarseness at first. I know I will have to be patient to really hear the result. But I also feel like it will probably be quite a bit different immediately (when I am allowed to talk), too :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 11, 2013, 03:24:38 PM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 11, 2013, 03:24:38 PM
I am excited for you :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MANDY GG on May 12, 2013, 11:41:43 AM
Post by: MANDY GG on May 12, 2013, 11:41:43 AM
Good Luck Jenny girl .
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 13, 2013, 02:46:48 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 13, 2013, 02:46:48 AM
Hi there!! It's 4:30pm in Tokyo :)
We are waiting to board for out last connection to Seoul. From the airport it's a 1.5hr train ride to the hotel- I think we will get in around 11 or 12p.
My consultation/examination is at 11a tomorrow morning or 7pm monday pacific standard time so I'll know more of the specific details about recovery and what to expect.
I haven't been nervous whatsoever. I have a really good feeling about this!
We are waiting to board for out last connection to Seoul. From the airport it's a 1.5hr train ride to the hotel- I think we will get in around 11 or 12p.
My consultation/examination is at 11a tomorrow morning or 7pm monday pacific standard time so I'll know more of the specific details about recovery and what to expect.
I haven't been nervous whatsoever. I have a really good feeling about this!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Heather on May 13, 2013, 02:49:27 AM
Post by: Heather on May 13, 2013, 02:49:27 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 13, 2013, 02:46:48 AMGood luck Jenny!
Hi there!! It's 4:30pm in Tokyo :)
We are waiting to board for out last connection to Seoul. From the airport it's a 1.5hr train ride to the hotel- I think we will get in around 11 or 12p.
My consultation/examination is at 11a tomorrow morning or 7pm monday pacific standard time so I'll know more of the specific details about recovery and what to expect.
I haven't been nervous whatsoever. I have a really good feeling about this!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 13, 2013, 10:16:32 AM
Post by: Shantel on May 13, 2013, 10:16:32 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 13, 2013, 02:46:48 AM
Hi there!! It's 4:30pm in Tokyo :)
We are waiting to board for out last connection to Seoul. From the airport it's a 1.5hr train ride to the hotel- I think we will get in around 11 or 12p.
My consultation/examination is at 11a tomorrow morning or 7pm monday pacific standard time so I'll know more of the specific details about recovery and what to expect.
I haven't been nervous whatsoever. I have a really good feeling about this!
Hang in there sweetie, we'll all be thinking of you. Can't wait to find out how it went, want to hear your new voice some day.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 13, 2013, 11:34:23 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 13, 2013, 11:34:23 PM
Thanks shantel!!
I'm waiting in the lobby for the rest of my voice examination. They already had a look at my vocal chords earlier this morning, and I have a mild tremor so I might have to take some medication to fix it. It's minor so I don't think I will need a Botox injection. I am extremely impressed with Dr Kim and his staff. I am not nervous at all, I mean- not one bit!
This next consult is the part where we decide how much of the vocal food to tie off (how high my voice will end up)! Very excited.
Other than that I've been out and about in Seoul just a few times. I gotta say the women here know how to DRESS. I am suuuper impressed with the styles I'm seeing. What a fabulous city!!! The rail system is incredible, too- besides all the weird looks a taller than average American looking female attracts ;) I'm getting stared up and down wherever I go. But it just kinda cracks me up.
I'm waiting in the lobby for the rest of my voice examination. They already had a look at my vocal chords earlier this morning, and I have a mild tremor so I might have to take some medication to fix it. It's minor so I don't think I will need a Botox injection. I am extremely impressed with Dr Kim and his staff. I am not nervous at all, I mean- not one bit!
This next consult is the part where we decide how much of the vocal food to tie off (how high my voice will end up)! Very excited.
Other than that I've been out and about in Seoul just a few times. I gotta say the women here know how to DRESS. I am suuuper impressed with the styles I'm seeing. What a fabulous city!!! The rail system is incredible, too- besides all the weird looks a taller than average American looking female attracts ;) I'm getting stared up and down wherever I go. But it just kinda cracks me up.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2013, 11:23:57 AM
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2013, 11:23:57 AM
Jenny,
I hope the surgery will go well and enjoy Seoul.
I hurried to be in Seoul on Saturday for my business.
Yes. Girls there have fashion sense like other crowded cities.
The top news here has been about sexual misconduct by the presidential spokesman during his stay in DC, USA. I begin being tired of it.
You may visit fashion stores in Dongdaemoon, old town. Also visit buddhism temples on Friday. On that day, they offer free lunch to everyone. It is perfect for veggies, and delicious.
Barbie~~
I hope the surgery will go well and enjoy Seoul.
I hurried to be in Seoul on Saturday for my business.
Yes. Girls there have fashion sense like other crowded cities.
The top news here has been about sexual misconduct by the presidential spokesman during his stay in DC, USA. I begin being tired of it.
You may visit fashion stores in Dongdaemoon, old town. Also visit buddhism temples on Friday. On that day, they offer free lunch to everyone. It is perfect for veggies, and delicious.
Barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rowan Rue on May 14, 2013, 11:37:50 AM
Post by: Rowan Rue on May 14, 2013, 11:37:50 AM
Oooh, I want to see photos of Seoul street fashion please!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2013, 02:08:10 PM
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2013, 02:08:10 PM
In Gangnam area, there is one buddhism temple:
#83 Seoul's Bongeunsa Buddhist Temple on DiscoveringKorea.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy11sRWMbPo#)
Barbie~~
#83 Seoul's Bongeunsa Buddhist Temple on DiscoveringKorea.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy11sRWMbPo#)
Barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 14, 2013, 02:21:31 PM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 14, 2013, 02:21:31 PM
That was good thanks Barbie :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
There are several palaces in the old town of Seoul. My favorite one is Changdeokgung Palace:
#71 The Prospering Virtue of Changdeokgung Palace in Seoul on DiscoveringKorea.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDK-xgUdeRc#)
It takes about 30 mins to walk from Myeongdong.
I once took some photos here:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi943.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad278%2Fbarbie_pictures%2F2011_11_12_11s_zps58eac1c4.jpg&hash=adeae473a266fe345099f5415154328ee9674777)
barbie~~
#71 The Prospering Virtue of Changdeokgung Palace in Seoul on DiscoveringKorea.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDK-xgUdeRc#)
It takes about 30 mins to walk from Myeongdong.
I once took some photos here:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi943.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad278%2Fbarbie_pictures%2F2011_11_12_11s_zps58eac1c4.jpg&hash=adeae473a266fe345099f5415154328ee9674777)
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 14, 2013, 05:44:30 PM
Post by: Shantel on May 14, 2013, 05:44:30 PM
Great videos Barbie, thanks for sharing them with us!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 15, 2013, 12:29:58 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 15, 2013, 12:29:58 AM
Surgery complete! The hardest part is behind me. Now it's time for the waiting game
The staff here is nothing short of incredible. Every moment I have been here has been peaceful, respectful, and reassuring in every way. I am just so super impressed to say the least.
This morning waking up from surgery was a little rough, I had some phlegm deep in my throat that I wasn't allowed to clear out. I kept thinking I would suffocate on it. Then after about an hour and a half of waiting through that, I was allowed to drink some water which cleared the problem instantaneously.. WHEW!
Now I am still in the waiting room, eating my first meal- some vegetably pastey stuff that tastes pretty darn good.
I probably won't be able to hear any changes in my voice until at least 1 month post op if not 2- so patience will definitely need to be had! I have a good feeling that it's going to turn out well. My goal is to be the best little patient and follow all of their directions to a T :D
The staff here is nothing short of incredible. Every moment I have been here has been peaceful, respectful, and reassuring in every way. I am just so super impressed to say the least.
This morning waking up from surgery was a little rough, I had some phlegm deep in my throat that I wasn't allowed to clear out. I kept thinking I would suffocate on it. Then after about an hour and a half of waiting through that, I was allowed to drink some water which cleared the problem instantaneously.. WHEW!
Now I am still in the waiting room, eating my first meal- some vegetably pastey stuff that tastes pretty darn good.
I probably won't be able to hear any changes in my voice until at least 1 month post op if not 2- so patience will definitely need to be had! I have a good feeling that it's going to turn out well. My goal is to be the best little patient and follow all of their directions to a T :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Heather on May 15, 2013, 12:35:37 AM
Post by: Heather on May 15, 2013, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 15, 2013, 12:29:58 AMHey Jenny I'm glad your surgery went well and I'm sure your voice is going to be as beautiful as you are.
Surgery complete! The hardest part is behind me. Now it's time for the waiting game
The staff here is nothing short of incredible. Every moment I have been here has been peaceful, respectful, and reassuring in every way. I am just so super impressed to say the least.
This morning waking up from surgery was a little rough, I had some phlegm deep in my throat that I wasn't allowed to clear out. I kept thinking I would suffocate on it. Then after about an hour and a half of waiting through that, I was allowed to drink some water which cleared the problem instantaneously.. WHEW!
Now I am still in the waiting room, eating my first meal- some vegetably pastey stuff that tastes pretty darn good.
I probably won't be able to hear any changes in my voice until at least 1 month post op if not 2- so patience will definitely need to be had! I have a good feeling that it's going to turn out well. My goal is to be the best little patient and follow all of their directions to a T :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 15, 2013, 12:46:34 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 15, 2013, 12:46:34 AM
Aww heather! That is so sweet of you to say!! :D thank you!!!
I'm just gonna keep updating here!
Also apparently there are two more from the US getting their VFS here in May and another from australia.
I'm just gonna keep updating here!
Also apparently there are two more from the US getting their VFS here in May and another from australia.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on May 15, 2013, 02:56:45 AM
Post by: Kate_H on May 15, 2013, 02:56:45 AM
Glad to hear it went well - you must be jumping up and down in your head waiting to hear the results... and yet having to wait quite some time on top of recovery!
I can't wait to hear from you how you feel about it once you've recovered. Like I said, I think this is definitely on the cards for me as soon as I can arrange it!
Kx
I can't wait to hear from you how you feel about it once you've recovered. Like I said, I think this is definitely on the cards for me as soon as I can arrange it!
Kx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 15, 2013, 09:38:08 AM
Post by: Shantel on May 15, 2013, 09:38:08 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 15, 2013, 12:29:58 AM
Surgery complete! The hardest part is behind me. Now it's time for the waiting game
I probably won't be able to hear any changes in my voice until at least 1 month post op if not 2- so patience will definitely need to be had! I have a good feeling that it's going to turn out well. My goal is to be the best little patient and follow all of their directions to a T :D
Good thinking Jenny, glad it went well for you dear! I remember the gal that went to Dr. Thomas, she went out the door and lit up a smoke right away. What a dumb ass! She messed her voice up right at that moment and it cracks at times because of it. So yes, it is smart to follow the doc's instructions perfectly.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MANDY GG on May 17, 2013, 09:15:52 AM
Post by: MANDY GG on May 17, 2013, 09:15:52 AM
Thank you for shareing your experien jenny . I"m glad all went well for you
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Well I'm not through the thick of it yet. These first 7 days of recovery are crucial to the outcome. I am concentrating so hard on not coughing.
I have been carrying water around Seoul with me because occasionally I'll get hit with a blast of who knows what and it makes me wanna cough!! If I do cough it could undo the main suture holding the tied portion of the vocal folds together. It needs 7 days to have a full heal.
Today I did have a moment where I forgot I couldn't talk.. My friend who is a designer was walking in front of me, and we were passing a design company who had misspelled the word "portfolio" on their sign out front :P they had spelled it "portpolio" lol... Anyway I tried to say "hey!" to my friend ahead of me and then a hoarse sound came out.. I was startled by it! It was definitely higher than I was expecting. It was kind of exciting to be shocked, but I realized I have to be even more careful. If I would actually try to yell something it would almost for sure screw something up being only 60 or so hours post-op.
Either way, I kinda like not talking. It's rather relaxing. I've been typing to my friend a lot on the iPhone and becoming much more familiar with hand gestures. Today it started to hit me that I will never hear my old voice ever again... And I could do nothing but smile from the inside out :D
I have been carrying water around Seoul with me because occasionally I'll get hit with a blast of who knows what and it makes me wanna cough!! If I do cough it could undo the main suture holding the tied portion of the vocal folds together. It needs 7 days to have a full heal.
Today I did have a moment where I forgot I couldn't talk.. My friend who is a designer was walking in front of me, and we were passing a design company who had misspelled the word "portfolio" on their sign out front :P they had spelled it "portpolio" lol... Anyway I tried to say "hey!" to my friend ahead of me and then a hoarse sound came out.. I was startled by it! It was definitely higher than I was expecting. It was kind of exciting to be shocked, but I realized I have to be even more careful. If I would actually try to yell something it would almost for sure screw something up being only 60 or so hours post-op.
Either way, I kinda like not talking. It's rather relaxing. I've been typing to my friend a lot on the iPhone and becoming much more familiar with hand gestures. Today it started to hit me that I will never hear my old voice ever again... And I could do nothing but smile from the inside out :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 10:36:30 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 10:36:30 AM
Congratulation :) hope things go smoothly the rest of the week :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 10:46:27 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 10:46:27 AM
Quote from: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 10:36:30 AM
Congratulation :) hope things go smoothly the rest of the week :)
Thanks, me too! I mean I love Seoul and all.. But- come on, Wednesday! Get here a little faster! ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 10:51:58 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 10:51:58 AM
How much did it end up costing all together to fly to korea, surgery, ect?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 11:03:58 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 11:03:58 AM
Pretty expensive I suppose, still less than Dr Thomas if my memory is correct.
Flight from LAX- 900usd
Surgery- 7400usd
10 day hotel in Myeongdong- 1200usd
Luckily food is pretty inexpensive here, as is the shopping 8)
Flight from LAX- 900usd
Surgery- 7400usd
10 day hotel in Myeongdong- 1200usd
Luckily food is pretty inexpensive here, as is the shopping 8)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 11:08:00 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 11:08:00 AM
OOOOOOOOO Shopping Spree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So looking around $10k plus food and shopping. I will have to remember that? While you were there did you price SRS? Is it cheaper to go there?
So looking around $10k plus food and shopping. I will have to remember that? While you were there did you price SRS? Is it cheaper to go there?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: misschievous on May 17, 2013, 11:08:00 AM
OOOOOOOOO Shopping Spree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So looking around $10k plus food and shopping. I will have to remember that? While you were there did you price SRS? Is it cheaper to go there?
At the recommendation of my endo, SRS is still a ways off for me (early 2015). I haven't researched it at all tbh. Just the surface level stuff.
Anyway with Yeson there are definite perks-- You get to see one of the most advanced and rapidly evolving cities on the planet... Not a bad deal if you ask me! Just want to say again how amazing the staff is, too. They are on top of it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 17, 2013, 03:45:38 PM
Post by: barbie on May 17, 2013, 03:45:38 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
who had misspelled the word "portfolio" on their sign out front :P they had spelled it "portpolio" lol...
Hi, Jenny,
Your surgery seems to go fine, and I hope you throat will recover very soon.
In modern Korean language, there is no distinction in sound between 'f' and 'p'. They always pronounce as 'p'. In ancient Korean, there was. Similarly, no distinction between 'L' and 'R' sound. On the other hand, there are several Korean sounds that English speaking people can not distinguish.
Air is not so much clean in Seoul downtown area. Air pollution was once notorious in Seoul, but recently it became better (for example, all public buses use natural gas instead of diesel). Still, I hesitate to visit or live in Seoul, because of air pollution there. So be careful in coughing. Fortunately, it will rain in the afternoon of Saturday.
I will fly to Saint Petersburg, Russia, on Tuesday evening with my colleagues. Visiting foreign cities is always exciting!
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:32:16 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:32:16 AM
Thanks Barbie. Yeah I was wondering if the air could be making parts of my cough worse. Still definitely dealing with moments of "foreign body sensation" deep in my throat. I really hope one of the sutures didn't come loose! But apparently that feeling is normal. I am probably just being a worry wart. Have fun on your own trip! Wish we could have met up :)
Ok off topic rant time... Don't read this part of the post if you're just looking for info about Yeson :P
Well pooh, my friend and I had kind of a cruddy moment today and I decided to come back to the hotel alone and cool off a bit. Since I can't talk to anyone about it over the phone, this is really my only outlet. Anyway the crud with my friend has been building for a few days. She's just really not good at understanding the sensibilities and insecurities of trans people, I guess. She's got issues of her own to deal with (digestive problems) that have been making her feel kind of off.. But the biggest difference is our sense of style. Normally we are fine doing our thing together (we've been friends several years) but lately she's been making what she thinks are "suggestive comments" about my style and ends up basically laying the smack down on my self confidence. It is really off putting to hear someone say "well with all that makeup you wear and the clothes you like there is a pretty huge mismatch in age".. 'Suggesting' that the clothes I wear are too young. Erm... What? I am happy with my style, I'm not looking for your "suggestions" unless I ask for them.. Being a foreigner and trying to feel confident as an outsider to this country... Not what I need right now. Plus, I don't even agree w/ her. She went on pretending like she was the style goddess or something and I know nothing about dressing for my body type.. Bickering how so and so girl has no hips (but acutally also tiny shoulders I said) and how so and so girl has large shoulders (but acutally has big hips, too- I said). I guess my feelings are exacerbated by the limitation of not being able to respond in any way other than text- so I've just been trying to hold a lot of it in the past couple of days. Like, here is another example that has happened daily.. I'm getting all glammed up to go out, and when I'm done I would look at her for even just a nod of approval. I get nothing. She just says "well we have totally different styles..." shakes her head and looks back down texting someone on her phone. I know not a big deal right? Wrong I guess... It started really getting to me. I like having approval, is that so wrong?
Ok rant over. La, la, la!!
Ok off topic rant time... Don't read this part of the post if you're just looking for info about Yeson :P
Well pooh, my friend and I had kind of a cruddy moment today and I decided to come back to the hotel alone and cool off a bit. Since I can't talk to anyone about it over the phone, this is really my only outlet. Anyway the crud with my friend has been building for a few days. She's just really not good at understanding the sensibilities and insecurities of trans people, I guess. She's got issues of her own to deal with (digestive problems) that have been making her feel kind of off.. But the biggest difference is our sense of style. Normally we are fine doing our thing together (we've been friends several years) but lately she's been making what she thinks are "suggestive comments" about my style and ends up basically laying the smack down on my self confidence. It is really off putting to hear someone say "well with all that makeup you wear and the clothes you like there is a pretty huge mismatch in age".. 'Suggesting' that the clothes I wear are too young. Erm... What? I am happy with my style, I'm not looking for your "suggestions" unless I ask for them.. Being a foreigner and trying to feel confident as an outsider to this country... Not what I need right now. Plus, I don't even agree w/ her. She went on pretending like she was the style goddess or something and I know nothing about dressing for my body type.. Bickering how so and so girl has no hips (but acutally also tiny shoulders I said) and how so and so girl has large shoulders (but acutally has big hips, too- I said). I guess my feelings are exacerbated by the limitation of not being able to respond in any way other than text- so I've just been trying to hold a lot of it in the past couple of days. Like, here is another example that has happened daily.. I'm getting all glammed up to go out, and when I'm done I would look at her for even just a nod of approval. I get nothing. She just says "well we have totally different styles..." shakes her head and looks back down texting someone on her phone. I know not a big deal right? Wrong I guess... It started really getting to me. I like having approval, is that so wrong?
Ok rant over. La, la, la!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 05:03:41 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 05:03:41 AM
Quote from: kyh on May 18, 2013, 04:48:50 AM
That must be so frustrating... If I were you I'd have a really hard time not raising my voice with her... You have an iron will!
And you're never too old or too young to dress and look the way you want.
On the bright side, at least you're not completely alone in Korea right? Though maybe with her rude remarks it'd be better to just be alone at this time?
Hugs!!!!!!
And now she comes back acting like nothing ever happened- so I dont even know if it's worth saying (I mean typing) anything to her... Prolly not I suppose.
Thanks kyh for hearing out my little vent mode. I'm sure I'll figure something out with her... Probably a combo of patience and selective indifference ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 18, 2013, 06:03:29 AM
Post by: barbie on May 18, 2013, 06:03:29 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:32:16 AM
But the biggest difference is our sense of style. Normally we are fine doing our thing together (we've been friends several years) but lately she's been making what she thinks are "suggestive comments" about my style and ends up basically laying the smack down on my self confidence. It is really off putting to hear someone say "well with all that makeup you wear and the clothes you like there is a pretty huge mismatch in age".. 'Suggesting' that the clothes I wear are too young. Erm... What? I am happy with my style, I'm not looking for your "suggestions" unless I ask for them.. Being a foreigner and trying to feel confident as an outsider to this country... Not what I need right now. Plus, I don't even agree w/ her. She went on pretending like she was the style goddess or something and I know nothing about dressing for my body type..
Genetic women know better than us in fashion and style. My wife also complains when I wear too bold clothes such as tube tops in summer. Fortunately I am usually in dull mode at home. I also like clothes for teenagers, because they are far less expensive than adults', and moreover look prettier and sexier. I prefer miniskirts, while my wife recommends relatively long skirts. I purchased several miniskirts, but I occasionally wear them. And, my wife took them to wear at home. I do not complain, but the fact is that they are mine, not hers.
For security reason, I will not wear high heels in Saint Petersburg. Just in dull mode. It is always nice to be precautionary in foreign cities at first.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 18, 2013, 07:51:51 AM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 18, 2013, 07:51:51 AM
Quote from: barbie on May 18, 2013, 06:03:29 AM
Genetic women know better than us in fashion and style.
Not really so as a rule, but probably fair enough as a generalisation. Look how many men dress women in fashion. I do this a lot and I see *nothing* wrong with *any* picture of Jenny. Take it for what it is, opinion. Get a few opinions if it worries you (not that I think it should at all) and then accept that sometimes peoples opinions may vary.
I also have friends who talk like that to me and others. It's like they have no tact. I try not to ask them about things too, unless I am completely prepared for their *opinion* delivered in a verbal boxing glove.
Its pretty much all you can do.
Hugs :-)
xxx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 18, 2013, 08:04:25 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 18, 2013, 08:04:25 AM
I think she is probably trying to help. she probably thinks that she knows more about it than you, being a cis woman. I am sure she was checking out different fashion trends since she was a baby. Parents teach that to girls early with barbie dolls. She is probably wants to help you transition and feels fashion is the best way she knows how. I am not saying that she does or doesn't know more about fashion than you. I know when time comes for me to go full time I will be depending on a few of my friends to help me with fashion and find the best look for my personality.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ashley_thomas on May 18, 2013, 08:45:29 AM
Post by: ashley_thomas on May 18, 2013, 08:45:29 AM
I you don't want input you don't want it. I'm mid thirties and I wear younger fashion at home, mostly because I like it and I didn't get to go through that phase as a girl. When I go out if rather blend in so I go a different fashion direction.
I do think we can all use a trusted cis-female advisor as we play catch up after living life in the wrong gender for some period of yrs. my cis-female partner gives me advice on the little things all the time. It's invaluable to me.
I do think we can all use a trusted cis-female advisor as we play catch up after living life in the wrong gender for some period of yrs. my cis-female partner gives me advice on the little things all the time. It's invaluable to me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 18, 2013, 08:50:06 AM
Post by: Shantel on May 18, 2013, 08:50:06 AM
This is my response to Jenny's rant:
Many if not all trans women don't dress age appropriately initially, for some it's a phase and for other's it's a lifestyle, but so what? Aren't we all trying to make up for a lot of what we missed in our youth? If it looks good and makes you feel good about yourself then by all means do it and don't worry about what others may think! None of us will be getting a do-over, this is a one shot opportunity so be all you can be and enjoy it. Jenny, you have always looked just gorgeous so I don't get what she is talking about. Perhaps her motives are different than what you think? Look I know that we sometimes out ourselves under the scrutiny of cis female eyes by not dressing age appropriate or time and place appropriately, but my feeling is if you've got it, flaunt it and enjoy being who you are while you have the opportunity. A former girlfriend loved to wear her "Daisy Duke" shorts in the summer, she was 30 and generally speaking cis women don't wear them beyond age 14. So what? She had gorgeous legs and enjoyed seeing the double takes she got from men!
Many if not all trans women don't dress age appropriately initially, for some it's a phase and for other's it's a lifestyle, but so what? Aren't we all trying to make up for a lot of what we missed in our youth? If it looks good and makes you feel good about yourself then by all means do it and don't worry about what others may think! None of us will be getting a do-over, this is a one shot opportunity so be all you can be and enjoy it. Jenny, you have always looked just gorgeous so I don't get what she is talking about. Perhaps her motives are different than what you think? Look I know that we sometimes out ourselves under the scrutiny of cis female eyes by not dressing age appropriate or time and place appropriately, but my feeling is if you've got it, flaunt it and enjoy being who you are while you have the opportunity. A former girlfriend loved to wear her "Daisy Duke" shorts in the summer, she was 30 and generally speaking cis women don't wear them beyond age 14. So what? She had gorgeous legs and enjoyed seeing the double takes she got from men!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 08:56:37 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 08:56:37 AM
Barbie- while I think it's true most of the time GG's know more about the whole of fashion and proper presentation, they've also had an entirely different (not necessarily better) becoming into their own femininity. Growing up as a girl can be socially harsh, and sometimes this creates phobias or just a general distaste of things that are perfectly acceptable. I think my friend might fall into that category. She has a very minimalized sense for fashion- not that it is bad. It works for her. Just the way she resists anything else kind of illustrates a closed mindedness that kind of bums me out.
Steph- thanks for your kind words about my photos :) Also yes, I think you hit the nail on the head... My friend is known as being rather tactless when she's cranky. There's an ongoing joke (that she has endearingly come to love) where we tell her to "reverse thrusters"... Lol- I think you get the picture. Also, I've never had anyone else tell me I dress too young. The whole start to my current wardrobe was co-picked by some of my most fashion forward cisfemale friends. I couldn't have done it without them! No way. But now I have a very confident feeling about what works and what I like. It just comes down to comfort... That is key for me. I don't leave the house unless I'm comfortable.
Misschievious- yes I do think you are right, too. At first she was just trying to help by making a suggestion about trying a certain style of clothing (loose baggy top commonly found here in Korea now). Then I said that I don't feel comfortable wearing that style because it isn't flattering for my body type (accentuates shoulders, waist & hip disappear completely). That is the kind of stuff I was wearing when I was trying to look androgynous, and for a little just as I went full time. Then I got smart and realized how it was all wrong for my body. Anyway next thing I knew, she was arguing with me about the differences between male/female body characteristics (and fighting me on it like I'm ignorant) which sent me into a dysphoric mind-jam because it's not like she's ever even had to worry about this stuff.
Ashley- YES exactly what I was thinking I wanted to mention in an earlier post. I didn't ask for her input and didn't want it. Especially delivered like that.
Steph- thanks for your kind words about my photos :) Also yes, I think you hit the nail on the head... My friend is known as being rather tactless when she's cranky. There's an ongoing joke (that she has endearingly come to love) where we tell her to "reverse thrusters"... Lol- I think you get the picture. Also, I've never had anyone else tell me I dress too young. The whole start to my current wardrobe was co-picked by some of my most fashion forward cisfemale friends. I couldn't have done it without them! No way. But now I have a very confident feeling about what works and what I like. It just comes down to comfort... That is key for me. I don't leave the house unless I'm comfortable.
Misschievious- yes I do think you are right, too. At first she was just trying to help by making a suggestion about trying a certain style of clothing (loose baggy top commonly found here in Korea now). Then I said that I don't feel comfortable wearing that style because it isn't flattering for my body type (accentuates shoulders, waist & hip disappear completely). That is the kind of stuff I was wearing when I was trying to look androgynous, and for a little just as I went full time. Then I got smart and realized how it was all wrong for my body. Anyway next thing I knew, she was arguing with me about the differences between male/female body characteristics (and fighting me on it like I'm ignorant) which sent me into a dysphoric mind-jam because it's not like she's ever even had to worry about this stuff.
Ashley- YES exactly what I was thinking I wanted to mention in an earlier post. I didn't ask for her input and didn't want it. Especially delivered like that.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 09:07:01 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 09:07:01 AM
Quote from: Shantel on May 18, 2013, 08:50:06 AM
This is my response to Jenny's rant:
Many if not all trans women don't dress age appropriately initially, for some it's a phase and for other's it's a lifestyle, but so what? Aren't we all trying to make up for a lot of what we missed in our youth? If it looks good and makes you feel good about yourself then by all means do it and don't worry about what others may think! None of us will be getting a do-over, this is a one shot opportunity so be all you can be and enjoy it. Jenny, you have always looked just gorgeous so I don't get what she is talking about. Perhaps her motives are different than what you think? Look I know that we sometimes out ourselves under the scrutiny of cis female eyes by not dressing age appropriate or time and place appropriately, but my feeling is if you've got it, flaunt it and enjoy being who you are while you have the opportunity. A former girlfriend loved to wear her "Daisy Duke" shorts in the summer, she was 30 and generally speaking cis women don't wear them beyond age 14. So what? She had gorgeous legs and enjoyed seeing the double takes she got from men!
Heck yes and that's exactly what I do, Auntie Shan :D
I am very happy with the way I dress and there's ultimately nothing [especially] she can say to change it. Maybe if her own daily fashion presentation inspired me at all I would pay more attention, but she just dresses very safely. Not to mention she has a general dislike for all of the places that I shop because she "doesn't fit into the clothing"... She is quite a bit shorter and has a little wider stance and I shop only at trendy thrift stores where most of the good stuff is S/S. However I have a few other girlfriends with her exact body type that shop there and look totally fabulous every day.
In the end, it's not like I'm pretending to know what would be the best way to dress her- nor would I start making comments about it... Unless she asked me to, only then would I offer my opinions.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 18, 2013, 11:34:43 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 18, 2013, 11:34:43 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 08:56:37 AM
Anyway next thing I knew, she was arguing with me about the differences between male/female body characteristics (and fighting me on it like I'm ignorant) which sent me into a dysphoric mind-jam because it's not like she's ever even had to worry about this stuff.
Trying to help you pick out your cloths is one thing but that is something completely different. You (at least from the picture) look genuine and beautiful. I hope I look halph that good at 5 months hrt.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 18, 2013, 11:50:44 AM
Post by: Shantel on May 18, 2013, 11:50:44 AM
Quote from: misschievous on May 18, 2013, 11:34:43 AM
Trying to help you pick out your cloths is one thing but that is something completely different. You (at least from the picture) look genuine and beautiful. I hope I look halph that good at 5 months hrt.
A lot of us here would agree with misschevious Jenny, you may have to politely confront the cis gal's comments if she persists and find out what's driving her to behave like that toward you. She may even be suffering jealousy pangs, who knows? If she keeps it up you may have to conclude that the friendship has become toxic and take appropriate action because you don't need anyone tearing down your self esteem.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:28:07 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:28:07 PM
I talked (typed) to her about it this morning.
We both woke up rather early (5:30am) and got to talking. She had an anxiety attack in her sleep and I was unable to sleep from a persistent tickle on my vocal chords. Anyway at one point she actually complimented the dress I was wearing yesterday (saying it looked really good on me)... This is the same dress she was saying looked too young for me yesterday. Haha uh what?
So, I said how it meant a lot because yesterday I was kind of thrown off from our conversation. When I mentioned to her that I had realized she was probably just trying to be helpful, she immediately saw the fault / where she went wrong later in the convo yesterday and apologized. She touched on her general lack of knowledge about fashion and makeup, and she also said some nice things about how I had made such big strides in 5 months time and was now probably "better" than her in both regards. I don't really like the word "better" in that form of speech but I took the apology & compliment to heart at face value :)
So, we are smiling again and things are better than ever. I think we have a greater understanding of each other after this, and the weird part is I didn't even "technically" speak any words, lol. Kind of cool.
We both woke up rather early (5:30am) and got to talking. She had an anxiety attack in her sleep and I was unable to sleep from a persistent tickle on my vocal chords. Anyway at one point she actually complimented the dress I was wearing yesterday (saying it looked really good on me)... This is the same dress she was saying looked too young for me yesterday. Haha uh what?
So, I said how it meant a lot because yesterday I was kind of thrown off from our conversation. When I mentioned to her that I had realized she was probably just trying to be helpful, she immediately saw the fault / where she went wrong later in the convo yesterday and apologized. She touched on her general lack of knowledge about fashion and makeup, and she also said some nice things about how I had made such big strides in 5 months time and was now probably "better" than her in both regards. I don't really like the word "better" in that form of speech but I took the apology & compliment to heart at face value :)
So, we are smiling again and things are better than ever. I think we have a greater understanding of each other after this, and the weird part is I didn't even "technically" speak any words, lol. Kind of cool.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:39:19 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:39:19 PM
Oh yeah, and I'm trying to get into Yeson a few days early for a super quick laryngoscope check because this tickle in my throat has me worried- like maybe the healing got messed up somewhere along the way. I'm almost positive it's normal, but having to wait around til Wednesday is going to kill me. I fly out Thursday and what if something is wrong?
They say not to cough or clear your throat at all especially in these first 7 days because it could pull the sutured area apart meaning a re-operation. I have definitely been driven to doing both (albeit VERY lightly) out of reflex (I panicked trying to stop it from occurring but there was no avoiding it).. at first from phlegm and now from this tickle / foreign body sensation. Which, by the way, kept me waking up on the hour from 2a - 5a last night until I finally said "screw this I'm just going to stay up and drink water" ;)
Luckily Jessie, the English coordinator at Yeson, has been so very nice and helpful answering all of my bothersome questions and reassuring my constant worries about the outcome of my surgery! I don't expect to hear back from her until tomorrow though- they are closed on weekends.
They say not to cough or clear your throat at all especially in these first 7 days because it could pull the sutured area apart meaning a re-operation. I have definitely been driven to doing both (albeit VERY lightly) out of reflex (I panicked trying to stop it from occurring but there was no avoiding it).. at first from phlegm and now from this tickle / foreign body sensation. Which, by the way, kept me waking up on the hour from 2a - 5a last night until I finally said "screw this I'm just going to stay up and drink water" ;)
Luckily Jessie, the English coordinator at Yeson, has been so very nice and helpful answering all of my bothersome questions and reassuring my constant worries about the outcome of my surgery! I don't expect to hear back from her until tomorrow though- they are closed on weekends.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 18, 2013, 06:19:29 PM
Post by: Shantel on May 18, 2013, 06:19:29 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 04:28:07 PM
She touched on her general lack of knowledge about fashion and makeup, and she also said some nice things about how I had made such big strides in 5 months time and was now probably "better" than her in both regards.
Uh-huh I suspected that might be what it was all about! It's great that you both have it resolved amicably.
Hang in there, you're probably going to be fine. No coughing now!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kyh on May 18, 2013, 07:34:19 PM
Post by: kyh on May 18, 2013, 07:34:19 PM
That's really great that you're closer with your friend now. I'm really happy you guys worked things out!
And I really really really hope that you won't have to get the operation over again. :( *fingers crossed*
And I really really really hope that you won't have to get the operation over again. :( *fingers crossed*
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 08:19:37 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: kyh on May 18, 2013, 07:34:19 PM
That's really great that you're closer with your friend now. I'm really happy you guys worked things out!
And I really really really hope that you won't have to get the operation over again. :( *fingers crossed*
Thanks shantel and kyh! Yeah breathing sighs of relief over here with my friend!
As far as my recovery... I have a feeling it's the tickle of nerves reconnecting or just healing in general / my tissue getting used to that permanent suture. They said only worry if there was pain after a moment of stress like a hard cough- which I have not had at all. Still I'm a huge worrier when it comes to anything surgical. I always get super antsy when it comes to recovery. "am I okay??? Am I okay?? Is this normal???" ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rowan Rue on May 18, 2013, 09:26:53 PM
Post by: Rowan Rue on May 18, 2013, 09:26:53 PM
"tickling or itching means it's healing" is the phrase I've heard used in regards to such things.
I hate that feeling of having something stuck in my throat though. If I get the same surgery done I'll have to take time to practice ignoring that sensation by swallowing one end of a piece of string or something.
I hate that feeling of having something stuck in my throat though. If I get the same surgery done I'll have to take time to practice ignoring that sensation by swallowing one end of a piece of string or something.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 09:50:06 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 09:50:06 PM
Quote from: Rowan Rue on May 18, 2013, 09:26:53 PM
"tickling or itching means it's healing" is the phrase I've heard used in regards to such things.
I hate that feeling of having something stuck in my throat though. If I get the same surgery done I'll have to take time to practice ignoring that sensation by swallowing one end of a piece of string or something.
Lol.. Good idea Rowan :)
Yeah it's weird, it crops up out of nowhere and sometimes intensely. I have to go jumping up and down waving my hands in the air like I just ate something really spicy- and even that doesn't work all the time haha.
Luckily, for the time being, it seems to have subsided. So for now, I feel great about recovery. Then it will come back and I'll start worrying again. I'm becoming more and more confident everything is indeed fine though.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 10:58:13 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 18, 2013, 10:58:13 PM
Well Jessie got back to me, and I for sure have nothing to worry about.
She said everything will be fine as long as I don't make any noise while coughing or try to talk- which I haven't done at all. I guess it's the cessation of vibrating the vocal chords that matters the most... Makes sense. Now I feel silly for worrying so much, but at the same time I like to be better safe than sorry. Hopefully this experience log will be helpful for people who might do this surgery in the future.
Once again just so happy with the staff at Yeson.
3 more days! Going on a citywide tour tomorrow :)
She said everything will be fine as long as I don't make any noise while coughing or try to talk- which I haven't done at all. I guess it's the cessation of vibrating the vocal chords that matters the most... Makes sense. Now I feel silly for worrying so much, but at the same time I like to be better safe than sorry. Hopefully this experience log will be helpful for people who might do this surgery in the future.
Once again just so happy with the staff at Yeson.
3 more days! Going on a citywide tour tomorrow :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Heather on May 18, 2013, 11:11:19 PM
Post by: Heather on May 18, 2013, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 10:19:38 AMI'm so happy for you Jenny! You have to do a YouTube video when you get done healing up so we can hear your new voice. Great thread btw!
Today it started to hit me that I will never hear my old voice ever again... And I could do nothing but smile from the inside out :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 19, 2013, 07:28:43 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 19, 2013, 07:28:43 AM
I agree with Heather you tube it :) Yes, you helped out alot because I wasn't sure whether to have a surgery or just take voice lessons. I am confident that when the time comes I will choose Yeson along with voice lessons. As far as your friend, I figured as much and glad to see you talked to her and everything worked out.
Have fun on your tour. :)
Have fun on your tour. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MANDY GG on May 19, 2013, 12:58:49 PM
Post by: MANDY GG on May 19, 2013, 12:58:49 PM
You tube would be good.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 19, 2013, 03:17:10 PM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 19, 2013, 03:17:10 PM
Yeah you tube it please :-) :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 19, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 19, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
I would be MOST aware of this type of surgery. Of all the surgeries available today, this is the one with the least success as it is almost totally unpredictable...you can end up with no voice at all or a voice so unrealistic...
There are so many other options to this surgery, all are a solution to this very dangerous option.
Please...don't do it! :(
There are so many other options to this surgery, all are a solution to this very dangerous option.
Please...don't do it! :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 19, 2013, 03:35:40 PM
Post by: misschievous on May 19, 2013, 03:35:40 PM
I was under the impression that the procedure that Yeson does was the safest of the surgeries.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 19, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
Post by: Shantel on May 19, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on May 19, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
I would be MOST aware of this type of surgery. Of all the surgeries available today, this is the one with the least success as it is almost totally unpredictable...you can end up with no voice at all or a voice so unrealistic...
There are so many other options to this surgery, all are a solution to this very dangerous option.
Please...don't do it! :(
So what makes you say something like that? Don't you think that she's done a lot of research first on who is reputed to be the best in this business and has read the reviews by those who have been there and done it?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on May 19, 2013, 03:51:28 PM
Post by: Kate_H on May 19, 2013, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on May 19, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
I would be MOST aware of this type of surgery. Of all the surgeries available today, this is the one with the least success as it is almost totally unpredictable...you can end up with no voice at all or a voice so unrealistic...
There are so many other options to this surgery, all are a solution to this very dangerous option.
Please...don't do it! :(
First of all, she's already done it, and more power to her for it. Secondly I've heard these naysaying things for many years from many quarters, all seem to "know someone who had it and it ruined their voice" - yet never seem to be able to explain further. I'm sure many people said the same about FFS in the early days. Techniques change, its an on-going thing. There are at least a couple of very pro-active surgeons in this field. Most of these views are based on cricothyroid approximation, which is deemed to be the most basic of surgeries in this field - yet still highly effective for many. It's all about the expectations and commitment of the person in question. If they've not managed to develop their voice at all in terms of resonance, then cricothyroid approximation will result in a higher pitched but still "manly" sounding voice. At this point in my life I would've been happy for CTA surgery, as its just the pitch that I have thats lower than I'm comfortable with - but Yeson's technique appears to both raise pitch AND improve resonance - so I'm all for it as soon as I can afford it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 19, 2013, 03:57:23 PM
Post by: misschievous on May 19, 2013, 03:57:23 PM
Way to go Kate :) I too shall get this surgery done when I get the chance :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:22:00 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:22:00 PM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on May 19, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
I would be MOST aware of this type of surgery. Of all the surgeries available today, this is the one with the least success as it is almost totally unpredictable...you can end up with no voice at all or a voice so unrealistic...
There are so many other options to this surgery, all are a solution to this very dangerous option.
Please...don't do it! :(
Kiwi4eva- the surgery with Yeson is nothing like you describe. You are welcome to your opinion, but their procedure is the most predictable of its kind... As far ask risk, surgical procedure method, and outcome, VFS with Yeson is NOTHING like CTA or Dr Thomas' feminization laryngoplasty.
While CTA is non invasive and like Yeson does not incise the vocal folds, the outcome is very unpredictable as you describe in your post. Usually it just cuts the lower range of the voice or "limits" it. This results in a falsetto sound that can sometimes seem like an unrealistic sound. With Yeson, the sound of the voice retains its natural phonation and the pitch is not limited- rather, it is shifted. Additionally, a neck incision is required for CTA and with Yeson it is not- reducing the risk of infection and there is no blood hemorrhage.
With Dr Thomas' approach, the entire voice box is removed, the vocal chords are completely incised along with the neck, and the risk of infection is far greater because of it. The risk of having a complication is far greater with this procedure due to its invasive nature. Comparatively with Yeson, there are no skin incisions, the vocal chords are not incised, and the risk of having a bad outcome is nullified. That is, unless you repeatedly disobey the recovery instructions.
There is only one reason why I did this, because it is safe. There is no other surgery on the planet with such a non invasive approach and with such predictable results. The only complication associated its this surgery is having no improvement in one's pitch. Nobody is ever stuck with a hoarse or lack of a voice for the rest of their life. It's a very safe procedure and Dr Kim is the only one who can do it.
As far as resonance- Yeson's surgery does not modify it, because it is not changing the size of the vocal chamber. Dr Thomas' approach is the only one that makes an attempt to change the resonance of a voice without the person's motivation. So, like CTA or other procedures that thin/stretch/shorten then vocal chords, resonance training is still necessary. For me, I have already figured out how to modify my resonance prior to having this surgery and you would have to as well.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:37:17 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:37:17 PM
Also, I wanted to touch on the fact that during my examination, Dr Kim found that I had a few problems with my vocal chords. From years of trying to raise the pitch of my voice and straining it, I had developed an asymmetry with one vocal chord being thicker than the other one, as well as a hemorrhage on the opposite side from some kind of trauma... Likely this was due to me trying to belt or shout at a higher pitch. As a result, I had a vocal tremor that would have gotten worse over the years. It would have been harder and harder for me to properly phonate- at the same time slowly losing my upper range of frequencies. Even in my voice tests it was showing that it took me a lot more pressure / airflow for me to make a noise than it should.
Thankfully both of these problems were corrected during the surgery. So, if I strictly adhere to the recovery instructions, my voice quality should actually improve along with going up in pitch.
Thankfully both of these problems were corrected during the surgery. So, if I strictly adhere to the recovery instructions, my voice quality should actually improve along with going up in pitch.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie Marie on May 19, 2013, 04:44:35 PM
Post by: Jamie Marie on May 19, 2013, 04:44:35 PM
We can't wait to see hear what the result will be and the suspense is probably torture to you...........
Hope you enjoy the rest of your stay too
Best wishes,
Jamie
Hope you enjoy the rest of your stay too
Best wishes,
Jamie
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:48:33 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:48:33 PM
Quote from: Jamie Marie on May 19, 2013, 04:44:35 PM
We can't wait toseehear what the result will be and the suspense is probably torture to you...........
Hope you enjoy the rest of your stay too
Best wishes,
Jamie
Thanks Jamie :D :D
I just woke up & now it's time for a shower. I'm going on a citywide tour today! Should be a lot of fun... I just hope they feed us! My appetite has been off the hook recently ;)
...and I'm off!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 19, 2013, 05:03:52 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 19, 2013, 05:03:52 PM
:( Sorry, I don't have permission to reply to personal posts...However, I looked into it for myself and did do quite a lot of research as I thought I wanted a new voice...There are some who are older than me who have had an enormous amount of work done on themselves and their bodies. They have had the resources...If you look hard enough (at some of the more popular sites of those who have documented their procedures) you will see that this particular procedure is not one that is recommended. Not trying to "freak you out" but inform you. It just isn't that successful and a lot can go wrong. There are other things you can do to improve your voice...hormones, coaching, and learning how to speak. Not a lot of people do this either, but they should.
As for me...I have just left my voice alone and no one ever suggests I am not female (except sometimes on the phone)
I think I looked at Yoskarn?
As for me...I have just left my voice alone and no one ever suggests I am not female (except sometimes on the phone)
I think I looked at Yoskarn?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 05:47:47 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 05:47:47 PM
And by particular do you mean voice feminization surgery as a whole or specifically Yeson? Because if you are talking about voice feminization surgery as a whole, I would agree with you 100%... if Yeson were not in the picture.
VFS AAC (vocal fold shortening and advancement if the anterior commissure -only offered at Yeson) is a relatively new procedure. CTA has been around for decades and gave voice feminization surgeries kind of a bad rap along with other invasive surgeries modifying the vocal chords.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but maybe the info or opinions that deem it so risky are a little out of date? Yeson's VFS has only been available to everyone since 2007.
Ask any doctor and they will probably tell you exactly what kiwi is saying, because they don't know about this magical place in Korea ;)
VFS AAC (vocal fold shortening and advancement if the anterior commissure -only offered at Yeson) is a relatively new procedure. CTA has been around for decades and gave voice feminization surgeries kind of a bad rap along with other invasive surgeries modifying the vocal chords.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but maybe the info or opinions that deem it so risky are a little out of date? Yeson's VFS has only been available to everyone since 2007.
Ask any doctor and they will probably tell you exactly what kiwi is saying, because they don't know about this magical place in Korea ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:05:14 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:05:14 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:22:00 PM
Kiwi4eva- the surgery with Yeson is nothing like you describe. You are welcome to your opinion, but their procedure is the most predictable of its kind... As far ask risk, surgical procedure method, and outcome, VFS with Yeson is NOTHING like CTA or Dr Thomas' feminization laryngoplasty.
While CTA is non invasive and like Yeson does not incise the vocal folds, the outcome is very unpredictable as you describe in your post. Usually it just cuts the lower range of the voice or "limits" it. This results in a falsetto sound that can sometimes seem like an unrealistic sound. With Yeson, the sound of the voice retains its natural phonation and the pitch is not limited- rather, it is shifted. Additionally, a neck incision is required for CTA and with Yeson it is not- reducing the risk of infection and there is no blood hemorrhage.
With Dr Thomas' approach, the entire voice box is removed, the vocal chords are completely incised along with the neck, and the risk of infection is far greater because of it. The risk of having a complication is far greater with this procedure due to its invasive nature. Comparatively with Yeson, there are no skin incisions, the vocal chords are not incised, and the risk of having a bad outcome is nullified. That is, unless you repeatedly disobey the recovery instructions.
There is only one reason why I did this, because it is safe. There is no other surgery on the planet with such a non invasive approach and with such predictable results. The only complication associated its this surgery is having no improvement in one's pitch. Nobody is ever stuck with a hoarse or lack of a voice for the rest of their life. It's a very safe procedure and Dr Kim is the only one who can do it.
As far as resonance- Yeson's surgery does not modify it, because it is not changing the size of the vocal chamber. Dr Thomas' approach is the only one that makes an attempt to change the resonance of a voice without the person's motivation. So, like CTA or other procedures that thin/stretch/shorten then vocal chords, resonance training is still necessary. For me, I have already figured out how to modify my resonance prior to having this surgery and you would have to as well.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Oh, it does. And I am almost jealous! Thrilled for you. I didn't realise you had had the procedure or I wouldn't have said anything. ANYTHING anyone can do to improve their lives (in this horrible world) is hugely positive. There is a rather famous person who has their own website and I PM'd her and this was one surgery she told me to avoid...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 20, 2013, 04:06:44 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 20, 2013, 04:06:44 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:05:14 AM
Oh, it does. And I am almost jealous! Thrilled for you. I didn't realise you had had the procedure or I wouldn't have said anything. ANYTHING anyone can do to improve their lives (in this horrible world) is hugely positive. There is a rather famous person who has their own website and I PM'd her and this was one surgery she told me to avoid...
She had surgery at Yeson?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:18:10 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:18:10 AM
:)Sorry Jenny...it won't let me answer PM's! No, she is from Northern America (I think) and did not have this surgery (just advised me against it) she did have an awful lot of work done though...I think she was a man for a long time and had a family before changing over...She is married and has a website with a lot of images about her and her procedures.
I really am happy for you...
(I had 10 hours FFS with Dr Suporn) and I know how distracting it can be with all the pros and cons before you decide on someone. He even had some detractors, but my experience was 110% positive...brilliant surgeon and so humble! :)
I really am happy for you...
(I had 10 hours FFS with Dr Suporn) and I know how distracting it can be with all the pros and cons before you decide on someone. He even had some detractors, but my experience was 110% positive...brilliant surgeon and so humble! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:19:41 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:19:41 AM
When & how can I post my image here?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 20, 2013, 04:32:34 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 20, 2013, 04:32:34 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:18:10 AM
:)Sorry Jenny...it won't let me answer PM's! No, she is from Northern America (I think) and did not have this surgery (just advised me against it) she did have an awful lot of work done though...I think she was a man for a long time and had a family before changing over...She is married and has a website with a lot of images about her and her procedures.
I really am happy for you...
(I had 10 hours FFS with Dr Suporn) and I know how distracting it can be with all the pros and cons before you decide on someone. He even had some detractors, but my experience was 110% positive...brilliant surgeon and so humble! :)
Yeah I really wish you hadn't said anything, haha. Now I wanna know why she said not to go to Yeson (even though your wording is still kind of ambiguous as to whether or not she mentioned Yeson specifically).
I have scoured the internet (literally 10 times over 2 months) looking for any review that isn't positive and I found nothing.
Honestly I wonder if she even knows what it is or if she's just falling into that category I mentioned earlier of the preconceived notion that ALL voice surgeries are bad. I mean look here:
http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/voice/voicesurg.html (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/voice/voicesurg.html)
Anyway, I appreciate the kind words. Earlier it seemed like you DID know I had already done the surgery and I was pretty thrown off... not going to lie! It makes more sense to me now why you would say what you did in those posts.
For me with this surgery, the pros and cons were easy. Any option where there was a risk of failure or reported failure.. well it wasn't an option for me to begin with ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on May 20, 2013, 04:36:45 AM
Post by: Kate_H on May 20, 2013, 04:36:45 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on May 20, 2013, 04:19:41 AM
When & how can I post my image here?
Think you should be able to now, after your 15th post :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 20, 2013, 04:40:54 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 20, 2013, 04:40:54 AM
24 hours until my follow up exam. I'm nervous!
I just want everything to be healing perfectly. Seoul is great and all but I am ready to go home!
The tour yesterday was good.. We saw the gyeongbokgung palace, changing of the guards, had bimbimbap, went up to bukchon and meandered for a bit, then went to the Jong myo shrine, and finished up visiting a few markets in Insadong and Namdaemun.
It was a little cold at first but then shaped up to be a perfect day outside :)
I can't wait to get home and edit the pictures!
I just want everything to be healing perfectly. Seoul is great and all but I am ready to go home!
The tour yesterday was good.. We saw the gyeongbokgung palace, changing of the guards, had bimbimbap, went up to bukchon and meandered for a bit, then went to the Jong myo shrine, and finished up visiting a few markets in Insadong and Namdaemun.
It was a little cold at first but then shaped up to be a perfect day outside :)
I can't wait to get home and edit the pictures!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 22, 2013, 07:37:19 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 22, 2013, 07:37:19 AM
Hey Jenny did you get PM I sent you?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 22, 2013, 01:07:21 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 22, 2013, 01:07:21 PM
Yes I got it! But I figured I would just reply to the thread :)
So today I had my follow up exam. I will start out saying that everything is healing PERFECTLY! All of my worries were in vain.. Which is what I was hoping would be the case!!
A pic of me n Sheli in the waiting room at Yeson. You can see the excitement on my face because at this point I am still under the impression that I will be able to start saying a few words today ;)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYYZF6b1.jpg&hash=d241cdd88456101dd0b4d9d0c1b96a0b4bbfcc3b)
I was taken back and given a few sheets of paper that explained the "vocal program" I will begin doing after two months when everything is 100% healed. It will develop my range and give me the voice of my dreams! I have to wait a while before starting the training though.
Then I met with Dr Kim and asked him a whole SLEW of questions by typing into my iPhone and showing it to him. It's how I've been communicating with Sheli too, so I've gotten pretty fast with it :) he understands English perfectly, too, by the way. So awesome.
Then Dr Kim did the usual process to prep me for the laryngoscope which is not too pleasant but not horrible. He basically blows some air down your nostrils followed by some kind of cleaning stuff that probably dries everything up, then vacuums it all out, then blows it all out again. It makes me tear up every time! But it's not bad.
Anyway this was the moment I had been waiting for alllll week.. To know if everything was healing well. Sure enough he had a smile on his face and took some photos while he was down there. In a moment he was done and I was looking at my newly transformed vocal folds on the monitor. Yay!!!! No problems!!
Here is a pic of my vocal chords before. You can see that the left one is thicker, which was causing my vocal tremor.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8Tb9PPQ.jpg&hash=c5dc229586de8c33f5dc7acc157c7715ce472679)
And here is a pic of my vocal chords today :) the blue line is the sutured area, and the green lines represent where the new vibrating area of the folds will develop as I recover. You can see that about an entire HALF has been tied off. He corrected the asymmetry as well.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJbrlqQg.jpg&hash=63a12a94dd1d30d8ffe224f127a14396a8940610)
And now for some pre-op vocal analysis data. The first one is my regular "male" voice- just talking how my genetics wanted me to. The second is my attempt at the feminine voice, which sadly was very out of practice the day I had the exam. I suffered from my usual feeling of being "on the spot" and failed miserably at getting the average pitch up to where it should be.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsZz4gtV.jpg&hash=0e35f76f8173cf7b2c98957cd27c8165cec52a70)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FljkCSCp.jpg&hash=e90e5625a492c9be81496f7366663422ade76aaf)
As you can see, my regular guy voice was around 140hz, which is actually on the high range of male voices (100-150hz). My attempted female voice was a mere 20hz higher, but it is also a voice I am very comfortable with.
So, this surgery should add 75hz to everything. That means comfortably, I will be somewhere around 215hz.. and with motivation I will easily be able to go up to 235hz. Both are great and well within the highly acceptable female range 200-250hz.
Dr Kim told me I should wait another week befor saying anything. Not because I'm not healing well (he said I'm healing VERY well) but because the Botox will make it harder to talk and I don't want to strain or try to push more air. In 7 more days, I can actually start saying "yes" and "no" to stuff for sure. At this point I feel like I have patience of steel.. It doesn't sound too bad... I think I actually kind of like not talking and becoming more accustomed to using hand gestures and facial expressions to communicate has been great :)
My flight is in the morning, and of course I've binged a little on shopping... Here I am trying on the outfit I decided to wear on the plane... LOL. So classy, right ??? The leggings have velvet embellishments and the jacket is glammed up with a studded collar. I'm going to look ridiculous, but I don't care. I feel like a million dollars after today. And "Trill It"? Lol.. ya gotta be kidding me. I had to get this shirt, it was way too LA for me to pass up. Also it has a zipper going all the way down the back which I thought was pretty cool.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0LmT1c9.jpg&hash=83bcfae9a3bd36db63c7ba1e70a0d6dbd58eaad4)
So today I had my follow up exam. I will start out saying that everything is healing PERFECTLY! All of my worries were in vain.. Which is what I was hoping would be the case!!
A pic of me n Sheli in the waiting room at Yeson. You can see the excitement on my face because at this point I am still under the impression that I will be able to start saying a few words today ;)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYYZF6b1.jpg&hash=d241cdd88456101dd0b4d9d0c1b96a0b4bbfcc3b)
I was taken back and given a few sheets of paper that explained the "vocal program" I will begin doing after two months when everything is 100% healed. It will develop my range and give me the voice of my dreams! I have to wait a while before starting the training though.
Then I met with Dr Kim and asked him a whole SLEW of questions by typing into my iPhone and showing it to him. It's how I've been communicating with Sheli too, so I've gotten pretty fast with it :) he understands English perfectly, too, by the way. So awesome.
Then Dr Kim did the usual process to prep me for the laryngoscope which is not too pleasant but not horrible. He basically blows some air down your nostrils followed by some kind of cleaning stuff that probably dries everything up, then vacuums it all out, then blows it all out again. It makes me tear up every time! But it's not bad.
Anyway this was the moment I had been waiting for alllll week.. To know if everything was healing well. Sure enough he had a smile on his face and took some photos while he was down there. In a moment he was done and I was looking at my newly transformed vocal folds on the monitor. Yay!!!! No problems!!
Here is a pic of my vocal chords before. You can see that the left one is thicker, which was causing my vocal tremor.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8Tb9PPQ.jpg&hash=c5dc229586de8c33f5dc7acc157c7715ce472679)
And here is a pic of my vocal chords today :) the blue line is the sutured area, and the green lines represent where the new vibrating area of the folds will develop as I recover. You can see that about an entire HALF has been tied off. He corrected the asymmetry as well.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJbrlqQg.jpg&hash=63a12a94dd1d30d8ffe224f127a14396a8940610)
And now for some pre-op vocal analysis data. The first one is my regular "male" voice- just talking how my genetics wanted me to. The second is my attempt at the feminine voice, which sadly was very out of practice the day I had the exam. I suffered from my usual feeling of being "on the spot" and failed miserably at getting the average pitch up to where it should be.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsZz4gtV.jpg&hash=0e35f76f8173cf7b2c98957cd27c8165cec52a70)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FljkCSCp.jpg&hash=e90e5625a492c9be81496f7366663422ade76aaf)
As you can see, my regular guy voice was around 140hz, which is actually on the high range of male voices (100-150hz). My attempted female voice was a mere 20hz higher, but it is also a voice I am very comfortable with.
So, this surgery should add 75hz to everything. That means comfortably, I will be somewhere around 215hz.. and with motivation I will easily be able to go up to 235hz. Both are great and well within the highly acceptable female range 200-250hz.
Dr Kim told me I should wait another week befor saying anything. Not because I'm not healing well (he said I'm healing VERY well) but because the Botox will make it harder to talk and I don't want to strain or try to push more air. In 7 more days, I can actually start saying "yes" and "no" to stuff for sure. At this point I feel like I have patience of steel.. It doesn't sound too bad... I think I actually kind of like not talking and becoming more accustomed to using hand gestures and facial expressions to communicate has been great :)
My flight is in the morning, and of course I've binged a little on shopping... Here I am trying on the outfit I decided to wear on the plane... LOL. So classy, right ??? The leggings have velvet embellishments and the jacket is glammed up with a studded collar. I'm going to look ridiculous, but I don't care. I feel like a million dollars after today. And "Trill It"? Lol.. ya gotta be kidding me. I had to get this shirt, it was way too LA for me to pass up. Also it has a zipper going all the way down the back which I thought was pretty cool.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0LmT1c9.jpg&hash=83bcfae9a3bd36db63c7ba1e70a0d6dbd58eaad4)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 22, 2013, 03:50:01 PM
Post by: Shantel on May 22, 2013, 03:50:01 PM
WOW, is that one happy looking girl or what? ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on May 22, 2013, 05:03:17 PM
Post by: Lexi Belle on May 22, 2013, 05:03:17 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 22, 2013, 01:07:21 PM
Yes I got it! But I figured I would just reply to the thread :)
So today I had my follow up exam. I will start out saying that everything is healing PERFECTLY! All of my worries were in vain.. Which is what I was hoping would be the case!!
A pic of me n Sheli in the waiting room at Yeson. You can see the excitement on my face because at this point I am still under the impression that I will be able to start saying a few words today ;)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYYZF6b1.jpg&hash=d241cdd88456101dd0b4d9d0c1b96a0b4bbfcc3b)
I was taken back and given a few sheets of paper that explained the "vocal program" I will begin doing after two months when everything is 100% healed. It will develop my range and give me the voice of my dreams! I have to wait a while before starting the training though.
Then I met with Dr Kim and asked him a whole SLEW of questions by typing into my iPhone and showing it to him. It's how I've been communicating with Sheli too, so I've gotten pretty fast with it :) he understands English perfectly, too, by the way. So awesome.
Then Dr Kim did the usual process to prep me for the laryngoscope which is not too pleasant but not horrible. He basically blows some air down your nostrils followed by some kind of cleaning stuff that probably dries everything up, then vacuums it all out, then blows it all out again. It makes me tear up every time! But it's not bad.
Anyway this was the moment I had been waiting for alllll week.. To know if everything was healing well. Sure enough he had a smile on his face and took some photos while he was down there. In a moment he was done and I was looking at my newly transformed vocal folds on the monitor. Yay!!!! No problems!!
Here is a pic of my vocal chords before. You can see that the left one is thicker, which was causing my vocal tremor.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8Tb9PPQ.jpg&hash=c5dc229586de8c33f5dc7acc157c7715ce472679)
And here is a pic of my vocal chords today :) the blue line is the sutured area, and the green lines represent where the new vibrating area of the folds will develop as I recover. You can see that about an entire HALF has been tied off. He corrected the asymmetry as well.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJbrlqQg.jpg&hash=63a12a94dd1d30d8ffe224f127a14396a8940610)
And now for some pre-op vocal analysis data. The first one is my regular "male" voice- just talking how my genetics wanted me to. The second is my attempt at the feminine voice, which sadly was very out of practice the day I had the exam. I suffered from my usual feeling of being "on the spot" and failed miserably at getting the average pitch up to where it should be.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsZz4gtV.jpg&hash=0e35f76f8173cf7b2c98957cd27c8165cec52a70)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FljkCSCp.jpg&hash=e90e5625a492c9be81496f7366663422ade76aaf)
As you can see, my regular guy voice was around 140hz, which is actually on the high range of male voices (100-150hz). My attempted female voice was a mere 20hz higher, but it is also a voice I am very comfortable with.
So, this surgery should add 75hz to everything. That means comfortably, I will be somewhere around 215hz.. and with motivation I will easily be able to go up to 235hz. Both are great and well within the highly acceptable female range 200-250hz.
Dr Kim told me I should wait another week befor saying anything. Not because I'm not healing well (he said I'm healing VERY well) but because the Botox will make it harder to talk and I don't want to strain or try to push more air. In 7 more days, I can actually start saying "yes" and "no" to stuff for sure. At this point I feel like I have patience of steel.. It doesn't sound too bad... I think I actually kind of like not talking and becoming more accustomed to using hand gestures and facial expressions to communicate has been great :)
My flight is in the morning, and of course I've binged a little on shopping... Here I am trying on the outfit I decided to wear on the plane... LOL. So classy, right ??? The leggings have velvet embellishments and the jacket is glammed up with a studded collar. I'm going to look ridiculous, but I don't care. I feel like a million dollars after today. And "Trill It"? Lol.. ya gotta be kidding me. I had to get this shirt, it was way too LA for me to pass up. Also it has a zipper going all the way down the back which I thought was pretty cool.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0LmT1c9.jpg&hash=83bcfae9a3bd36db63c7ba1e70a0d6dbd58eaad4)
Congrats on your voice operation.
Btw, you're gorgeous!...And that fashion is killer. ;p
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 05:38:33 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 05:38:33 AM
Thank you Sierra Belle! I wore that outfit during my travel home... topped it off with my JC open toe black wedge heels ;)
A little update...
I don't think the botox over-relaxed my vocal chords... For the first time, I tried saying a few words today and I was able to make a noise fairly easily.
I even said "Hi, I'm Jenny" very relaxed & softly into the "Praat" app on my mac (what I use for voice analysis), and it showed a 213hz average pitch for the recording (!!!). The range was 180hz - 252hz. Patients are normally allowed to resume speech of a few words per day like this after 7 days, but with botox it initially relaxes the vocal chords so much that sound isn't usually possible for another week. Well that wasn't really the case for me, but I'm going to keep to not talking to anyone until Wednesday... just to be safe!
So... not even two weeks after the procedure and it appears that my voice is already well into the female range pitch wise. I wasn't paying attention to resonance at all in this recording, the only thing I was paying attention to was being as gentle as possible and keeping my voice at the most relaxed / natural feeling point. This is what came out:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOYl5Zbu.png&hash=8e2c65fd2611e0cc290aecb3f27e800f512578f4)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Xdaxj7ZC7F (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Xdaxj7ZC7F)
I am super happy with my voice and it's only been 11 days!!!! 3 more days and I will actually start saying words to people.. I am so excited to talk again!! Even if it's just a few words a day...
A little update...
I don't think the botox over-relaxed my vocal chords... For the first time, I tried saying a few words today and I was able to make a noise fairly easily.
I even said "Hi, I'm Jenny" very relaxed & softly into the "Praat" app on my mac (what I use for voice analysis), and it showed a 213hz average pitch for the recording (!!!). The range was 180hz - 252hz. Patients are normally allowed to resume speech of a few words per day like this after 7 days, but with botox it initially relaxes the vocal chords so much that sound isn't usually possible for another week. Well that wasn't really the case for me, but I'm going to keep to not talking to anyone until Wednesday... just to be safe!
So... not even two weeks after the procedure and it appears that my voice is already well into the female range pitch wise. I wasn't paying attention to resonance at all in this recording, the only thing I was paying attention to was being as gentle as possible and keeping my voice at the most relaxed / natural feeling point. This is what came out:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOYl5Zbu.png&hash=8e2c65fd2611e0cc290aecb3f27e800f512578f4)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Xdaxj7ZC7F (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Xdaxj7ZC7F)
I am super happy with my voice and it's only been 11 days!!!! 3 more days and I will actually start saying words to people.. I am so excited to talk again!! Even if it's just a few words a day...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 26, 2013, 05:44:59 AM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 26, 2013, 05:44:59 AM
Wow. Happy 4u ^_^
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 05:48:36 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 05:48:36 AM
Quote from: Steph21 on May 26, 2013, 05:44:59 AM
Wow. Happy 4u ^_^
Thanks Steph! I know the voice recording probably sounds a little weird and I debated posting it but said what the heck. It's going to change a ton over the next month and a half. I'm just blown away that the pitch is already where it needs to be, I was not expecting that.
Also, I caught a cold immediately when I got back, and right now my sinuses are all sneezy. I can hear it in the recording as well. I will post more when I am farther along in recovery.
What do you think so far though? It sounds pretty close to female to me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 26, 2013, 05:53:11 AM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on May 26, 2013, 05:53:11 AM
It sounds great. I would be super happy with it if I were you too! :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 05:54:40 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 05:54:40 AM
Quote from: Steph21 on May 26, 2013, 05:53:11 AM
It sounds great. I would be super happy with it if I were you too! :-)
Yayy! I'm glad you think so too!
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 26, 2013, 06:01:05 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 26, 2013, 06:01:05 AM
Congratulations
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 06:28:48 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 26, 2013, 06:28:48 AM
Quote from: misschievous on May 26, 2013, 06:01:05 AM
Congratulations
Thanks ms. chevious! :D
I'm finally starting to relax about the outcome. It's a great feeling.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MANDY GG on May 26, 2013, 07:21:48 AM
Post by: MANDY GG on May 26, 2013, 07:21:48 AM
Your voice recording sounds female to me, thanks for posting in
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 26, 2013, 09:05:52 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 26, 2013, 09:05:52 AM
I hope after I get mine done, and it has time to heal, my voice sounds like Aaliyah. ©©©
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 26, 2013, 09:08:03 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 26, 2013, 09:08:03 AM
I know it is a pipe dream but I LOVE her voice ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 27, 2013, 03:34:44 AM
Post by: barbie on May 27, 2013, 03:34:44 AM
Hi, Jenny,
It's nice that your surgery went so well and stayed in Seoul without any problem.
I just returned from Saint Petersburg yesterday afternoon. A little bit tired from jet lags.
There were so many beautiful women in Russia, and I nearly gave up catching them.
Barbie~~
It's nice that your surgery went so well and stayed in Seoul without any problem.
I just returned from Saint Petersburg yesterday afternoon. A little bit tired from jet lags.
There were so many beautiful women in Russia, and I nearly gave up catching them.
Barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 28, 2013, 10:12:55 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 28, 2013, 10:12:55 PM
Quote from: barbie on May 27, 2013, 03:34:44 AM
Hi, Jenny,
It's nice that your surgery went so well and stayed in Seoul without any problem.
I just returned from Saint Petersburg yesterday afternoon. A little bit tired from jet lags.
There were so many beautiful women in Russia, and I nearly gave up catching them.
Barbie~~
That's exactly how I felt in Seoul at times! Haha.
It can be quite discouraging. A lot of days I just stuck to looking like a tourist.
----
Alright a voice update!
Sometimes my throat is kind of filled with phlegm and it won't sound good at all (I got sick as soon as I got home and I'm like 1 day until fully recovered from sickies). But when there's not crap in my throat it sounds a lot better.
I'm feeling better about the way it sounds in my own head. I mean today alone my brain has been adjusting to it a ton. It's quite a big change from where I was. (fundamental frequency change of 75hz).
I think my voice is going to end up pretty high if I am already up so much so early on. Judging by what Dr. Kim told me, he didn't expect me to be in the female range (up 60hz) until 1 or 2 months post op and 75hz up until after a year... But I am already 75hz up just 2 weeks later. No complaints, though. Maybe it was the 4 liters of water I was drinking every day during my first week of recovery :P I think I did a pretty kick-butt job at following his instructions to a T so I guess that could have helped too.
I did another sound recording today because I was actually allowed to start saying a few words. Now that I am a little bit more cozy with the way it sounds/feels, I think I was naturally paying attention to resonance a little bit more. Let me know what you think... Can you hear a difference from the first one?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0b1ChY5eugg (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0b1ChY5eugg)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Darkie on May 28, 2013, 10:18:42 PM
Post by: Darkie on May 28, 2013, 10:18:42 PM
Jenny, you sound adorable!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cosi555 on May 28, 2013, 10:27:43 PM
Post by: Cosi555 on May 28, 2013, 10:27:43 PM
Your voice sounds amazingly feminine. Congrats on such a successful op :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 28, 2013, 11:47:14 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 28, 2013, 11:47:14 PM
Thankyouthankyouthankyou Darkie & Nikki!! :D :D
Right now it only sounds like this when I am very very quiet, because I still have another 5.5 weeks or so left until I'm all the way done recovering. Today trying to say words to people it was kinda hard to get enough volume and have it sound like it does in the recording. But, that will get better in the next couple of weeks and then WAY better by July. For the most part, I'm still keeping pretty quiet for now and typing in my phone to communicate with people. I really don't want to push the volume, I want it to heal perfectly :)
Thanks again for your comments! I'm feeling great about the surgery!
Right now it only sounds like this when I am very very quiet, because I still have another 5.5 weeks or so left until I'm all the way done recovering. Today trying to say words to people it was kinda hard to get enough volume and have it sound like it does in the recording. But, that will get better in the next couple of weeks and then WAY better by July. For the most part, I'm still keeping pretty quiet for now and typing in my phone to communicate with people. I really don't want to push the volume, I want it to heal perfectly :)
Thanks again for your comments! I'm feeling great about the surgery!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kyh on May 29, 2013, 03:20:01 AM
Post by: kyh on May 29, 2013, 03:20:01 AM
Oh my gosh Jenny! >_< Your voice is already perfect! After it's done healing it's going to be godly! Your surgeon deserves a gold medal! And you deserve a high five for being such a good patient! ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on May 29, 2013, 06:52:30 AM
Post by: Kate_H on May 29, 2013, 06:52:30 AM
<ENVIOUS FACE>
:) X
:) X
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sammy on May 29, 2013, 06:57:12 AM
Post by: Sammy on May 29, 2013, 06:57:12 AM
Sounds awesome!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 29, 2013, 10:00:57 AM
Post by: Shantel on May 29, 2013, 10:00:57 AM
Totally, totally 100% female Jennygirl, you did it, kudos!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 29, 2013, 12:51:02 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 29, 2013, 12:51:02 PM
Thank you everyone!!!
Hopefully this thread is helpful to other people looking at having this surgery! In some respects I felt kind of like a guinea pig. There is not that much detailed information about it online right now- especially when it comes to the recovery. It will be interesting to see when it really starts to get better volume wise. I'll let you know!
I'm going to keep updating as I recover :)
Thanks again for all the wonderfully uplifting comments about my voice.
Hopefully this thread is helpful to other people looking at having this surgery! In some respects I felt kind of like a guinea pig. There is not that much detailed information about it online right now- especially when it comes to the recovery. It will be interesting to see when it really starts to get better volume wise. I'll let you know!
I'm going to keep updating as I recover :)
Thanks again for all the wonderfully uplifting comments about my voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kyh on May 29, 2013, 01:10:32 PM
Post by: kyh on May 29, 2013, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 29, 2013, 12:51:02 PM
Thank you everyone!!!
Hopefully this thread is helpful to other people looking at having this surgery! In some respects I felt kind of like a guinea pig. There is not that much detailed information about it online right now- especially when it comes to the recovery. It will be interesting to see when it really starts to get better volume wise. I'll let you know!
I'm going to keep updating as I recover :)
Thanks again for all the wonderfully uplifting comments about my voice.
The very first recording you posted after your surgery sounded kind of falsetto and unnatural to me, but the most recent one is pure female.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 29, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 29, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
Quote from: kyh on May 29, 2013, 01:10:32 PM
The very first recording you posted after your surgery sounded kind of falsetto and unnatural to me, but the most recent one is pure female.
Well good then I wasn't the only one to notice a difference too :)
The biggest difference in feel for me was resonance. With the first one, I was concentrating too much to just keep the pitch steady. At the time it felt very foreign overall to be making such a high noise. With the most recent recording, I am a bit more used to the pitch- which allowed me to relax and apply what I have learned with feminine voice training which I started in January.
I think it's VERY important to note that like any other voice modification surgery, it still requires fem voice training on top of the changes that any surgery will give you. Resonance is huge, and I'd already been comfortable with it for a couple of months before the operation. So while I agree that Dr. Kim is indeed incredible, it still requires a good deal of effort on the patient's part to sound all the way female. Make sense?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 29, 2013, 02:12:35 PM
Post by: Shantel on May 29, 2013, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 29, 2013, 02:06:33 PM
That is what I thought too... HUGE difference, but can't wait to hear a more final result! :)
Me too! Jenny can you read the Gettysberg address for us so that we can bask in the lilt and tone of your new voice? Oh btw, you need to contact the surgeon and tell him that you'll be expecting a bird dog commission on every girl from Susan's who shows up as a result of your great PR job.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kyh on May 29, 2013, 02:14:58 PM
Post by: kyh on May 29, 2013, 02:14:58 PM
Makes total sense Jenny! Of course, pitch isn't everything, resonance is also important. So since you already had the resonance down, you were the perfect candidate for this procedure! I think hahaha :laugh:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 29, 2013, 03:37:04 PM
Post by: misschievous on May 29, 2013, 03:37:04 PM
That was a big difference from the first one. :) I can't wait to hear it when your fully healed :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 29, 2013, 05:27:44 PM
Post by: barbie on May 29, 2013, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 28, 2013, 10:12:55 PM
I did another sound recording today because I was actually allowed to start saying a few words. Now that I am a little bit more cozy with the way it sounds/feels, I think I was naturally paying attention to resonance a little bit more. Let me know what you think... Can you hear a difference from the first one?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0b1ChY5eugg (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0b1ChY5eugg)
Jenny,
Not only just female, but it's actually beautiful. Perfect!
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 30, 2013, 05:21:12 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 30, 2013, 05:21:12 AM
Quote from: Shantel on May 29, 2013, 02:12:35 PM
Me too! Jenny can you read the Gettysberg address for us so that we can bask in the lilt and tone of your new voice? Oh btw, you need to contact the surgeon and tell him that you'll be expecting a bird dog commission on every girl from Susan's who shows up as a result of your great PR job.
Haha that is a GREAT idea. But no, just helping other trans ladies will be enough :)
Thanks for the input everyone. I feel like I'm going to notice a difference day by day. Even today just one day later I noticed a change. But right now I'm only allowed to say 15-20 words MAX in one day. On the 12th of June, though, I can start actually using it all day in conversation. That's a HUGE milestone I have been looking forward to since the day of the procedure.
Now, if this darned cough would go away. I got sick right when I got home (sinus to throat to chest) and I'm allllmost done with it completely. I can't help but cough some of this crap up- I'm just being as gentle as humanly possible. Not supposed to cough or clear the throat for 3 weeks post op. I made it to 2 before I had to do any serious coughing. If I screwed anything up, I would know- it would hurt and my voice would sound different. All is good so far and no pain whatsoever. Just like... comee onnnn really I have to be dealing with cold stuff right now? I guess everyone got sick last week though so what was I gonna do...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 31, 2013, 04:02:24 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 31, 2013, 04:02:24 AM
I'm Sorry to hear your still sick. You should try Sinus Soother Tea. That does wanders for me. There was a really bad chest cold going around, and I got it. I drank a few cups and by the time the second cup was done , I felt alot better and the cough was gone. Overnight the symptoms would come back, But I would do the same thing the next day. Boil water about 3 "coffee cups" seems coffee cups are more like pints.... 1 bag Spearmint tea and 2 bags Sinus Soother Tea cover and let it steep for at least 10 minutes
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 31, 2013, 04:41:15 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 31, 2013, 04:41:15 AM
thanks for the tips misschievous :)
Luckily a lot of it cleared out last night and today. Tonight is the first time in 2 or 3 days I won't be taking cough medicine to fall asleep. I had some of that promethazine stuff left over from a really bad chest cold a couple of years ago. It's the stuff that has codeine in it. KNOCKED me out and kept the tickle away from my vocal chords.
Well it's hard not saying more than 15-20 words in a day. Especially when I want to figure out how to use my new voice. But luckily I have only 10 more days until I can start using it in full conversation mode. I realized that the 11th of June here is actually the 12th in Seoul. I know I know I'm getting SO technical with my countdown.. but can you blame me? :D
Luckily a lot of it cleared out last night and today. Tonight is the first time in 2 or 3 days I won't be taking cough medicine to fall asleep. I had some of that promethazine stuff left over from a really bad chest cold a couple of years ago. It's the stuff that has codeine in it. KNOCKED me out and kept the tickle away from my vocal chords.
Well it's hard not saying more than 15-20 words in a day. Especially when I want to figure out how to use my new voice. But luckily I have only 10 more days until I can start using it in full conversation mode. I realized that the 11th of June here is actually the 12th in Seoul. I know I know I'm getting SO technical with my countdown.. but can you blame me? :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on May 31, 2013, 09:46:44 AM
Post by: Shantel on May 31, 2013, 09:46:44 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 31, 2013, 04:41:15 AM
thanks for the tips misschievous :)
Luckily a lot of it cleared out last night and today. Tonight is the first time in 2 or 3 days I won't be taking cough medicine to fall asleep. I had some of that promethazine stuff left over from a really bad chest cold a couple of years ago. It's the stuff that has codeine in it. KNOCKED me out and kept the tickle away from my vocal chords.
Well it's hard not saying more than 15-20 words in a day. Especially when I want to figure out how to use my new voice. But luckily I have only 10 more days until I can start using it in full conversation mode. I realized that the 11th of June here is actually the 12th in Seoul. I know I know I'm getting SO technical with my countdown.. but can you blame me? :D
I think what you are suffering with is the same locus of the mocus I have along with many others. It used to be that a cold was just a scratchy throat, a cough and sniffles and it was over in a few days, but it seems that these virus's have morphed into something really nasty that goes on for weeks now. Hang in there girlfriend, we all wanna hear that totally girly-girl voice when you're ready.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on May 31, 2013, 10:12:03 AM
Post by: misschievous on May 31, 2013, 10:12:03 AM
Well, you have a right to be technical with the countdown. After all, you want to start talking full conversations when the doctor wants you to. If you go too soon, even a day, you might mess something up. I doubt you would but there is still the chance.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 12:40:29 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 12:40:29 AM
8 days remaining!
An update:
I've been getting a little more used to my voice when talking to other people. It is seriously not easy. My brain is still doing it's thing where when I am alone I am fine, but when I'm with people I know it wants to use a lower tone.
But now, there is no lower tone! So usually when I talk to other people unless I focus on raising the pitch the word comes out sounding like sh**, haha. Today I made some good improvements though. It's starting to sound normal to me to have a higher voice. Little by little, my brain is adjusting.
Also, phlegm is finally going away but still getting quite a bit after drinking water. I think the botox is still affecting my vocal chords and they are still in the semi-over-relaxed state, letting a few drips of water down my esophagus when I swallow water.
Overall my voice is getting a little bit stronger and doesn't sound as hoarse at a louder (but still soft) volume. Things seem to be healing really well.
And this whole time I have had no discomfort or pain or anything. This procedure is truly amazing :D
Just thought I would update you! Every day is a noticeable difference.
An update:
I've been getting a little more used to my voice when talking to other people. It is seriously not easy. My brain is still doing it's thing where when I am alone I am fine, but when I'm with people I know it wants to use a lower tone.
But now, there is no lower tone! So usually when I talk to other people unless I focus on raising the pitch the word comes out sounding like sh**, haha. Today I made some good improvements though. It's starting to sound normal to me to have a higher voice. Little by little, my brain is adjusting.
Also, phlegm is finally going away but still getting quite a bit after drinking water. I think the botox is still affecting my vocal chords and they are still in the semi-over-relaxed state, letting a few drips of water down my esophagus when I swallow water.
Overall my voice is getting a little bit stronger and doesn't sound as hoarse at a louder (but still soft) volume. Things seem to be healing really well.
And this whole time I have had no discomfort or pain or anything. This procedure is truly amazing :D
Just thought I would update you! Every day is a noticeable difference.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 01:46:10 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 01:46:10 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 12:40:29 AM
8 days remaining!
An update:
I've been getting a little more used to my voice when talking to other people. It is seriously not easy. My brain is still doing it's thing where when I am alone I am fine, but when I'm with people I know it wants to use a lower tone.
But now, there is no lower tone! So usually when I talk to other people unless I focus on raising the pitch the word comes out sounding like sh**, haha. Today I made some good improvements though. It's starting to sound normal to me to have a higher voice. Little by little, my brain is adjusting.
Also, phlegm is finally going away but still getting quite a bit after drinking water. I think the botox is still affecting my vocal chords and they are still in the semi-over-relaxed state, letting a few drips of water down my esophagus when I swallow water.
Overall my voice is getting a little bit stronger and doesn't sound as hoarse at a louder (but still soft) volume. Things seem to be healing really well.
And this whole time I have had no discomfort or pain or anything. This procedure is truly amazing :D
Just thought I would update you! Every day is a noticeable difference.
Jenny, I am so thrilled for you...and me, because I am going to have this procedure! Can't wait, but I have to as my FFS is still quite raw. Have been in touch with them and only need to give them 3 weeks advance notice...You know when you talk (pardon the pun) about having to work at it, what do you mean? When you talk, don't you just use what comes out of your mouth and now it's more feminine, totally female? Is it not that simple?
Hugs...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 02:26:23 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 02:26:23 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 01:46:10 AM
Jenny, I am so thrilled for you...and me, because I am going to have this procedure! Can't wait, but I have to as my FFS is still quite raw. Have been in touch with them and only need to give them 3 weeks advance notice...You know when you talk (pardon the pun) about having to work at it, what do you mean? When you talk, don't you just use what comes out of your mouth and now it's more feminine, totally female? Is it not that simple?
Hugs...
Well no it's not really a "boom, now you have a fully female voice". The brain still has to get used to having the higher pitches, as well you have to train yourself to use different resonance, word choice, and inflection. Lemmie put it this way... if someone with a 100% male sounding voice (no feminine voice training at all) were to get this surgery, it would probably end up sounding like a male with a high pitched voice.
All that the surgery does is change the pitch. It's up to you to get the rest down ;)
I'm trilled for you, too, Kiwi :) Hopefully your FFS recovery is quick and easy!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 02:33:07 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 02, 2013, 02:33:07 AM
Oh and sorry I didn't answer the question fully about having to work at it.
Well, I was used to using a lower tone around other people. So, when tried to say words around people (which I've only been allowed to do the past 4 or so days), I have been adjusting to not having those lower pitches available.
Today was kind of a breakthrough day for me. Just a half an hour ago when I was hanging out with a few of my roommates, I noticed I'm becoming much more comfortable with the pitch I need to be using and it's already becoming second nature. Not having lower pitches definitely accelerates the process I think. I really can't even make a noise below ~170hz at the moment. My regular speaking voice used to be 140hz average. Now it is 212hz (as far as I know from the few tests I've done). That is a big change to get used to all in one go!
See what I'm saying?
Well, I was used to using a lower tone around other people. So, when tried to say words around people (which I've only been allowed to do the past 4 or so days), I have been adjusting to not having those lower pitches available.
Today was kind of a breakthrough day for me. Just a half an hour ago when I was hanging out with a few of my roommates, I noticed I'm becoming much more comfortable with the pitch I need to be using and it's already becoming second nature. Not having lower pitches definitely accelerates the process I think. I really can't even make a noise below ~170hz at the moment. My regular speaking voice used to be 140hz average. Now it is 212hz (as far as I know from the few tests I've done). That is a big change to get used to all in one go!
See what I'm saying?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:02:21 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:02:21 AM
:)Perhaps I should say...probably most people don't think there is any need for me to have this surgery, but I don't want to ever be mistaken for a male on the telephone (which has happened) and I don't like the sound of my voice when I leave a message on the telephone answering system...so, I have redone the message over and over until I'm happy with it. Sometimes transgender people sound a certain way...I have been able to discover people just on their voice alone in the past. So yes, I can sound more feminine than other times when I want to, but I'd rather not have to.
As for the FFS...it's taking forever and my hair has thinned remarkably. My face is sore in parts and I wake to different degrees of uncomfortableness in different parts of my face. I would love to know "what" he did. I imagine, hammers, chisels, and god knows what else. I get the most wicked "shocks" in my head as the nerves reattach? A real journey...but already something I didn't expect but have noticed...people are keener to talk to me than before, I guess it's because I look so much better than before the FFS. :)
As for the FFS...it's taking forever and my hair has thinned remarkably. My face is sore in parts and I wake to different degrees of uncomfortableness in different parts of my face. I would love to know "what" he did. I imagine, hammers, chisels, and god knows what else. I get the most wicked "shocks" in my head as the nerves reattach? A real journey...but already something I didn't expect but have noticed...people are keener to talk to me than before, I guess it's because I look so much better than before the FFS. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on June 02, 2013, 10:56:44 AM
Post by: Shantel on June 02, 2013, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:02:21 AM
As for the FFS...it's taking forever and my hair has thinned remarkably. My face is sore in parts and I wake to different degrees of uncomfortableness in different parts of my face. I would love to know "what" he did. I imagine, hammers, chisels, and god knows what else. I get the most wicked "shocks" in my head as the nerves reattach? A real journey...but already something I didn't expect but have noticed...people are keener to talk to me than before, I guess it's because I look so much better than before the FFS. :)
Kiwi, I am assuming that you are a New Zealander right? If that photo that you had previously used as an avatar is indeed you then I can understand clearly how people would be keen to talk with you. I've always been drawn to nice looking women over homely ones, it took me years before I figured out that the external packaging isn't as important as the person inside. That was a strong male trait for me to get over, but I think that women are drawn to want to converse another nice looking woman as well so that desire isn't limited to strict gender proclivities after all.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:12:32 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:12:32 PM
Quote from: Shantel on June 02, 2013, 10:56:44 AM
Kiwi, I am assuming that you are a New Zealander right? If that photo that you had previously used as an avatar is indeed you then I can understand clearly how people would be keen to talk with you.
:) Shantel, thank you for the compliment. I will upload a new one before long but having had FFS, my face is still going through soreness, puffiness & swelling. Yes, I have noticed more people are wanting to approach/talk with me. It can only be due to the FFS surgery...and when I make myself up (doesn't take as long either) the results are nice. :) It makes a difference, because this subtle contact increases my inclusion into society almost automatically. It's something I didn't anticipate. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:18:34 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: Shantel on June 02, 2013, 10:56:44 AM
Kiwi, I am assuming that you are a New Zealander right?
Oh, sorry Shantel, yes, I am...An interesting fact...While we aren't a big country (4 million) and increasingly multi-cultural due to Asian & refugee influences, (we are losing our Kiwi identity :() Years ago there were only a hand-full of "sex-changes" in the country and everyone knew everyone else...an interesting statistic emerged. We were all Cancerian! Born in the Cancerian Horoscope
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on June 02, 2013, 03:44:31 PM
Post by: Shantel on June 02, 2013, 03:44:31 PM
Quote from: Kiwi4Ever on June 02, 2013, 03:18:34 PM
Oh, sorry Shantel, yes, I am...An interesting fact...While we aren't a big country (4 million) and increasingly multi-cultural due to Asian & refugee influences, (we are losing our Kiwi identity :() Years ago there were only a hand-full of "sex-changes" in the country and everyone knew everyone else...an interesting statistic emerged. We were all Cancerian! Born in the Cancerian Horoscope
That's more than just interesting, it's bizarre don't you think?
I knew a big Maori in Vietnam in my earlier life. He was a rather fine fellow we shared a little Scotch and observed Christmas eve out in the boondocks.
Multiculturalism is destroying a lot of western nation's characteristics and supplanting it with something that the former Yugoslav Republic has shown doesn't work, especially when the newcomers refuse to assimilate and insist on changing the existing culture to suit them.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Tristan on June 04, 2013, 12:53:05 PM
Post by: Tristan on June 04, 2013, 12:53:05 PM
Wow girl. I just saw this thread . I must say really awesome
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 05, 2013, 01:05:10 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 05, 2013, 01:05:10 AM
Quote from: Tristan on June 04, 2013, 12:53:05 PM
Wow girl. I just saw this thread . I must say really awesome
Thanks Tristan :D
Today has been awesome! I am really getting used to having a higher pitch and saying words to people is becoming much more natural in the higher register. Seems like it's a combination of healing and also mental adjustment. It also feels like my voice is getting higher as I go- it is definitely most comfortable more towards the 220-230hz range now.
The best part for me- using a higher pitch is really starting to take shape around others, and it feels great :) I still have moments where a word will come out sounding croaky / hoarse because my brain wants to go back down, but that is happening less and less. My whole reason for doing this surgery was because I could not conquer the fear or stage fright or whatever you wanna call it of using my female voice around others. Now that it is forced, I really have no choice in the matter and I could not be happier about that.
A side note of something I noticed... When I have some phlegm and I try to clear it out, it kind of stuns my vocal chords a little bit and my voice becomes very wavered in pitch. So I am trying not to do that whole throat clearing thing for now.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on June 05, 2013, 01:59:20 AM
Post by: Carrie Liz on June 05, 2013, 01:59:20 AM
Jenny, if you don't mind me asking, I've heard you speak many times about how resonance is not changed, only pitch is. So, I'm just really curious, does that mean that things like coughs and sneezes are affected, or not? And also, how much effort does it take to change your resonance so that a surgery like this sounds natural? I'm thinking about it myself for the future because it takes so much effort to push my voice into a higher tone, but I'm a bit scared that because you've said this technique does not change the resonance, would it still require that same amount of effort anyway in order to sound natural?
Again, just curious. My voice is like my #1 dysphoria issue, and I'd give just about anything to have the same soprano notes that I had before my voice changed back, so I am weighing my options.
Again, just curious. My voice is like my #1 dysphoria issue, and I'd give just about anything to have the same soprano notes that I had before my voice changed back, so I am weighing my options.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie Marie on June 05, 2013, 02:18:12 AM
Post by: Jamie Marie on June 05, 2013, 02:18:12 AM
Jenny,
Love your voice.
The wavering pitch thing happens to me tired, dry throat , etc. For me it's normal. Maybe for lots of people. Thinking seriously about the voice surgery. My therapist even says I have the feminine speech range and my voice pitch is very similar to her cis female voice. So i'm not exactly sure what to do different. She said my voice has feminine speech patterns already, the range during speech. Yet I struggle to maintain my female voice for more than short bursts, and singing in my female voice range stresses my voice in 6-10 minutes. Any suggestions? I have range, and inflection down, yet struggle on maintaining pitch and volume for very long.
Thanks
Love your voice.
The wavering pitch thing happens to me tired, dry throat , etc. For me it's normal. Maybe for lots of people. Thinking seriously about the voice surgery. My therapist even says I have the feminine speech range and my voice pitch is very similar to her cis female voice. So i'm not exactly sure what to do different. She said my voice has feminine speech patterns already, the range during speech. Yet I struggle to maintain my female voice for more than short bursts, and singing in my female voice range stresses my voice in 6-10 minutes. Any suggestions? I have range, and inflection down, yet struggle on maintaining pitch and volume for very long.
Thanks
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 05, 2013, 03:05:43 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 05, 2013, 03:05:43 AM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 05, 2013, 01:59:20 AM
Jenny, if you don't mind me asking, I've heard you speak many times about how resonance is not changed, only pitch is. So, I'm just really curious, does that mean that things like coughs and sneezes are affected, or not? And also, how much effort does it take to change your resonance so that a surgery like this sounds natural? I'm thinking about it myself for the future because it takes so much effort to push my voice into a higher tone, but I'm a bit scared that because you've said this technique does not change the resonance, would it still require that same amount of effort anyway in order to sound natural?
Again, just curious. My voice is like my #1 dysphoria issue, and I'd give just about anything to have the same soprano notes that I had before my voice changed back, so I am weighing my options.
I've heard your voice in a video, Carrie! I remember it sounding really really good!
Anyway to answer your questions:
Coughs and sneezes are affected when there is phonation but this is a huge no-no during recovery so I haven't tried it. Everything from laughing to clearing the throat, to sighing and yawning IS feminized. Anything with phonation of any kind. Resonance isn't too much of an issue with these things imo.
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about resonance training. Anyone can do it, you just have to put the time in and learn how to gain access to those muscles to make the voice box smaller. I would say it depends on the person how much effort it takes. If you are a really detailed, observant, and/or methodical learner, you can figure it out pretty fast. It took me about 2 months of regular voice training to have that "ah-ha" moment and resonance clicked. I am also very methodical and extremely determined when it comes to figuring things out during a time of need.
Jamie- Thanks :)
It sounds like you'd be a perfect candidate and would likely have a great outcome out of the gates since you've already done the necessary training. This surgery takes the struggle out of maintaining pitch which seems to be your only issue. Definitely, though, please be very careful about stressing your voice.. because it can really do harm to your vocal chords if you are frequently feeling pain there. They can fix voice complications during the surgery (like they did for me) but I think it's best to start with healthy vocal cords ;)
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 07, 2013, 03:16:40 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 07, 2013, 03:16:40 PM
Omg I love my new voice!!!
It's my first day back at work and I've been saying sentences for a few days already. I love the way it sounds both recorded and as I'm saying stuff!
Still not a lot of volume yet, but it's getting there. Still noticing big differences with every passing day :)
But I looove it!!! Makes me so happy to finally have correct pitch- the resonance and everything else just falls into place automatically now. It feels like every time I open my mouth to say something out comes a pleasant surprise :D
It's my first day back at work and I've been saying sentences for a few days already. I love the way it sounds both recorded and as I'm saying stuff!
Still not a lot of volume yet, but it's getting there. Still noticing big differences with every passing day :)
But I looove it!!! Makes me so happy to finally have correct pitch- the resonance and everything else just falls into place automatically now. It feels like every time I open my mouth to say something out comes a pleasant surprise :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 07, 2013, 04:33:37 PM
Post by: barbie on June 07, 2013, 04:33:37 PM
Jenny,
I remember that you still need to wait until June 12. I am looking forward to listening your fully recovered new voice on that day.
barbie~~
I remember that you still need to wait until June 12. I am looking forward to listening your fully recovered new voice on that day.
barbie~~
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 07, 2013, 05:03:32 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 07, 2013, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: barbie on June 07, 2013, 04:33:37 PM
Jenny,
I remember that you still need to wait until June 12. I am looking forward to listening your fully recovered new voice on that day.
barbie~~
Well it's not going to be fully recovered on that day, but recovered enough to have full conversation at will. Right now I'm keeping it to one word responses for the most part (using a lot of hand gestures) and occasionally saying a sentence here and there.
It won't be until July 10th that I am fully 100% recovered enough to yell and sing. But I've only 3 days left of limited conversation :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Ltl89 on June 07, 2013, 05:50:30 PM
Post by: Ltl89 on June 07, 2013, 05:50:30 PM
I'm glad everything has worked out so well for you. I must admit my earlier concerns on the surgery seem to be misplaced. You sound great! If I ever get the money and my voice continues to not improve at all, I may have to give this a shot. However, finding the money for it is a whole other thing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on June 07, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
Post by: misschievous on June 07, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 07, 2013, 05:03:32 PM
Well it's not going to be fully recovered on that day, but recovered enough to have full conversation at will. Right now I'm keeping it to one word responses for the most part (using a lot of hand gestures) and occasionally saying a sentence here and there.
It won't be until July 10th that I am fully 100% recovered enough to yell and sing. But I've only 3 days left of limited conversation :)
In July we will be expecting a song from you :) lol
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 08, 2013, 04:19:13 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 08, 2013, 04:19:13 AM
Quote from: learningtolive on June 07, 2013, 05:50:30 PM
I'm glad everything has worked out so well for you. I must admit my earlier concerns on the surgery seem to be misplaced. You sound great! If I ever get the money and my voice continues to not improve at all, I may have to give this a shot. However, finding the money for it is a whole other thing.
Aw thank you for saying that :D And I am sure you were not alone in your presumptions.
It is rather expensive, but definitely worth every penny, too.
Quote from: misschievous on June 07, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
In July we will be expecting a song from you :) lol
Don't worry! I'll do some kind of singing thing once I get it back.. it's way too early to tell if my singing voice is going to sound good enough when I hit 2 months though. My guess is I will have to be doing my vocal program (which extends range and increases voice quality) for several months before singing really has any chance of sounding nice. But that's just an assumption! I can always hope it sounds amazing immediately :) So far I have been pleasantly surprised.
The comfortable range of my voice continues to climb as I learn my new "sweet spot". It's likely that the sweet spot itself is changing as the cords heal and re-tension.
Average pitch for test recordings today was around 230hz. It definitely looks like I'm going to end up way above the planned mark of 215hz. Getting really good reactions from people in real life, too. Everyone says that my voice sounds very natural, despite being a little hoarse / breathy at any volume over a 2ft voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on June 08, 2013, 07:07:11 AM
Post by: misschievous on June 08, 2013, 07:07:11 AM
Ok Jenny, we can wait on your singing ::) :P I am really happy for you, that you are having such great success with your voice. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 12, 2013, 05:52:59 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 12, 2013, 05:52:59 AM
Today was the first time I could really talk as much as I wanted to. I've been slowly working up to this point, and my volume is coming back more and more now. I'm no longer having to get SO close to people for them to be able to hear me over background noise and my voice is becoming a lot clearer and way less breathy sounding. So, that is awesome! :)
I am finally experiencing a whole new aspect to transition that I have always been so jealous of other trans women. Unlike most girls who were able to start using their practiced voices around friends and in public, I just could not do it as hard as I tried.
Now, though, it's feeling so natural that I simply just get excited when it's time to use my voice. And out it comes. Life is great, even if I have to be kinda quiet about it ;)
Also, I submitted a voice sample to Yeson reading the same passage as I did during my pre-op. They might be uploading it to their youtube account as an example of 1 month post op voice results. I told Jessie I would be honored!
I am finally experiencing a whole new aspect to transition that I have always been so jealous of other trans women. Unlike most girls who were able to start using their practiced voices around friends and in public, I just could not do it as hard as I tried.
Now, though, it's feeling so natural that I simply just get excited when it's time to use my voice. And out it comes. Life is great, even if I have to be kinda quiet about it ;)
Also, I submitted a voice sample to Yeson reading the same passage as I did during my pre-op. They might be uploading it to their youtube account as an example of 1 month post op voice results. I told Jessie I would be honored!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Antonia J on June 12, 2013, 06:04:06 AM
Post by: Antonia J on June 12, 2013, 06:04:06 AM
Congratulations. Happy for you! Thanks for sharing your journey :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 12, 2013, 06:08:10 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 12, 2013, 06:08:10 AM
Quote from: Antonia J on June 12, 2013, 06:04:06 AM
Congratulations. Happy for you! Thanks for sharing your journey :)
Thanks Antonia :D :D :D
It's my pleasure, I'm glad you appreciate it!
Hopefully I'll be posting a link to a before / after voice sample from Yeson here shortly! Fingers crossed :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on June 12, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Post by: Shantel on June 12, 2013, 09:25:33 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 12, 2013, 05:52:59 AM
I am finally experiencing a whole new aspect to transition that I have always been so jealous of other trans women. Unlike most girls who were able to start using their practiced voices around friends and in public, I just could not do it as hard as I tried.
Now, though, it's feeling so natural that I simply just get excited when it's time to use my voice. And out it comes. Life is great, even if I have to be kinda quiet about it ;)
We are all so pleased for you Jenny! Freddie Mercury "Queen" sang "We are the champions my friend!" You can sing it now Jennygirl!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Susan T on June 12, 2013, 01:16:56 PM
Post by: Susan T on June 12, 2013, 01:16:56 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 12, 2013, 06:08:10 AM
Thanks Antonia :D :D :D
It's my pleasure, I'm glad you appreciate it!
Hopefully I'll be posting a link to a before / after voice sample from Yeson here shortly! Fingers crossed :)
looking forward to hearing it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MANDY GG on June 12, 2013, 01:31:54 PM
Post by: MANDY GG on June 12, 2013, 01:31:54 PM
And me too .
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ZoeM on June 12, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
Post by: ZoeM on June 12, 2013, 01:42:27 PM
I'm definitely looking forward to hearing your results, Jenny. With the voice over and done with, you've pretty much passed into the promised land of passing. And it's a wonderful place.
I'm currently practicing to hit 230hz in standard speech (where my base is 215-220) -
So I think I know what you're experiencing as far as the actual sounds are concerned. I'm also curious how your voice sounds in recording (say, web-recording software) - I really hope the oddities in my own recordings are just recording issues. If everyone sounds that way it's be really encouraging.
I'm kind of curious - is this entirely new territory for you? Can you even access the old lower pitch range?
I'm currently practicing to hit 230hz in standard speech (where my base is 215-220) -
So I think I know what you're experiencing as far as the actual sounds are concerned. I'm also curious how your voice sounds in recording (say, web-recording software) - I really hope the oddities in my own recordings are just recording issues. If everyone sounds that way it's be really encouraging.
I'm kind of curious - is this entirely new territory for you? Can you even access the old lower pitch range?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Ltl89 on June 12, 2013, 04:01:24 PM
Post by: Ltl89 on June 12, 2013, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 12, 2013, 05:52:59 AM
Today was the first time I could really talk as much as I wanted to. I've been slowly working up to this point, and my volume is coming back more and more now. I'm no longer having to get SO close to people for them to be able to hear me over background noise and my voice is becoming a lot clearer and way less breathy sounding. So, that is awesome! :)
I am finally experiencing a whole new aspect to transition that I have always been so jealous of other trans women. Unlike most girls who were able to start using their practiced voices around friends and in public, I just could not do it as hard as I tried.
Now, though, it's feeling so natural that I simply just get excited when it's time to use my voice. And out it comes. Life is great, even if I have to be kinda quiet about it ;)
Also, I submitted a voice sample to Yeson reading the same passage as I did during my pre-op. They might be uploading it to their youtube account as an example of 1 month post op voice results. I told Jessie I would be honored!
That's great news. I can't wait to hear it. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on June 12, 2013, 04:32:54 PM
Post by: misschievous on June 12, 2013, 04:32:54 PM
Happy to hear you have your voice back 24/7 now :) And I can't wait to hear your voice :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 01:05:06 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 01:05:06 AM
Spent nearly the whole day with MaidofOrleans (which was fabulous might I add!!), and not once did my voice give out.
It certainly got a little dry at times, but it is getting soooo much stronger. I am a very happy Jenny.
Here is the recording I submitted to Yeson yesterday. If/when they give me the before clip from my pre-op reading the same passage, I'll post that too ;)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH)
What do you think??
It certainly got a little dry at times, but it is getting soooo much stronger. I am a very happy Jenny.
Here is the recording I submitted to Yeson yesterday. If/when they give me the before clip from my pre-op reading the same passage, I'll post that too ;)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH)
What do you think??
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on June 13, 2013, 02:41:23 AM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on June 13, 2013, 02:41:23 AM
I think you are a lucky girl x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AusBelle on June 13, 2013, 03:06:35 AM
Post by: AusBelle on June 13, 2013, 03:06:35 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 01:05:06 AM
What do you think??
Sounds great. Nice and feminine. You should be pleased :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 13, 2013, 03:07:32 AM
Post by: barbie on June 13, 2013, 03:07:32 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 01:05:06 AM
Spent nearly the whole day with MaidofOrleans (which was fabulous might I add!!), and not once did my voice give out.
It certainly got a little dry at times, but it is getting soooo much stronger. I am a very happy Jenny.
Here is the recording I submitted to Yeson yesterday. If/when they give me the before clip from my pre-op reading the same passage, I'll post that too ;)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH)
What do you think??
Yes. 120% female voice!
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on June 13, 2013, 03:18:22 AM
Post by: Jamie D on June 13, 2013, 03:18:22 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 01:05:06 AM
Spent nearly the whole day with MaidofOrleans (which was fabulous might I add!!), and not once did my voice give out.
It certainly got a little dry at times, but it is getting soooo much stronger. I am a very happy Jenny.
Here is the recording I submitted to Yeson yesterday. If/when they give me the before clip from my pre-op reading the same passage, I'll post that too ;)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH (http://vocaroo.com/i/s0eWbR5XtmHH)
What do you think??
Outstanding Jenny!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 03:26:57 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 03:26:57 AM
Is it acceptable to reach for the ceiling and say "Yesssss!!" when reading these comments of approval?! Because I can't help but not! Lol!
Thank you everyone :D :D :D
You've made a happy Jenny even happier!
Apparently Yeson will have the pre/post op before/after posted by next week if you are curious to hear what my voice sounded like before.
Thank you everyone :D :D :D
You've made a happy Jenny even happier!
Apparently Yeson will have the pre/post op before/after posted by next week if you are curious to hear what my voice sounded like before.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 03:52:59 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 03:52:59 AM
Quote from: Jamie D on June 13, 2013, 03:18:22 AM
Outstanding Jenny!
Lol... thanks for the voice note Jamie :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on June 13, 2013, 04:11:11 AM
Post by: misschievous on June 13, 2013, 04:11:11 AM
Wow, not only does that sound natural, it also sounds outstanding. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on June 13, 2013, 05:46:25 AM
Post by: Nicolette on June 13, 2013, 05:46:25 AM
Jenny, your voice sounds fabulous. Is there any more healing to do? How long before the final result?
Sorry, more questions:
Are you able to sing a major scale? How has your range been affected? Has it become limited or simply shifted upwards? Has the quality of your voice been affected or just the pitch or both?
I'd love to sing in a higher range, but I can't imagine getting away with such surgery. I'd have to give an excuse like surgery for polyps etc. which would explain not being able to speak for a month. Having the quality of my voice altered would be problematic. If it's only the pitch then that's doable.
Sorry, more questions:
Are you able to sing a major scale? How has your range been affected? Has it become limited or simply shifted upwards? Has the quality of your voice been affected or just the pitch or both?
I'd love to sing in a higher range, but I can't imagine getting away with such surgery. I'd have to give an excuse like surgery for polyps etc. which would explain not being able to speak for a month. Having the quality of my voice altered would be problematic. If it's only the pitch then that's doable.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: bullwinklle on June 13, 2013, 09:07:17 AM
Post by: bullwinklle on June 13, 2013, 09:07:17 AM
Your voice sounds amazing!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fevesfangarden.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2Fursula-21.jpg&hash=8e2d2092dac10d20eff81ef5ec7a487bfe41cc1e)
Would you kindly sign this piece of paper? No, don't worry about it; it's just a piece of paper. Just sign.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fevesfangarden.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2Fursula-21.jpg&hash=8e2d2092dac10d20eff81ef5ec7a487bfe41cc1e)
Would you kindly sign this piece of paper? No, don't worry about it; it's just a piece of paper. Just sign.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ZoeM on June 13, 2013, 09:31:19 AM
Post by: ZoeM on June 13, 2013, 09:31:19 AM
My word... O_o
that is beautiful. Congratulations!
that is beautiful. Congratulations!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Ltl89 on June 13, 2013, 11:47:48 AM
Post by: Ltl89 on June 13, 2013, 11:47:48 AM
Wow that's amazing! Really! I mean who knew all that information about rainbows. ;)
Seriously, your voice is great. I'm glad it all worked out.
I think I see a trip to South Korea in my future.
Seriously, your voice is great. I'm glad it all worked out.
I think I see a trip to South Korea in my future.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charley Bea(EmeraldP) on June 13, 2013, 12:08:23 PM
Post by: Charley Bea(EmeraldP) on June 13, 2013, 12:08:23 PM
....words...can't...find...them Holy cow that is amazing congratulations. Can't wait to hear the before.
Huh guess i found some words afterall. XD
Huh guess i found some words afterall. XD
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 12:40:45 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 12:40:45 PM
omygosh thank you girls for all the wonderful comments!!! As I just told Shantel in a PM, I haven't even gotten out of bed and my day has already been made :)
Nicolette, to answer your questions-
There is still a month of recovery to go, I am probably at about 50% right now as it's been just over a month since the operation. Right now I am not allowed to sing at all (they say don't sing whatsoever until the 2-3 month mark) because singing and yelling put a huge amount of vibrational stress on the vocal chords- so much that it could actually stretch the surgical area and risk undoing the surgery. In exactly one month I begin these range building vocal exercises that they taught me how to do at my follow up exam right before I left Korea. They are supposed to improve my range, resonance, and control over my voice. I guess I am not expecting to have much of a singing voice until I've been doing the vocal exercises for a while. Some of the exercises include up/down sweeps and making various noises at different pitches. Kind of standard stuff for anyone wanting to increase the range of their voice. And to answer your last concern, the quality of one's voice is not altered with this surgery- it is only the pitch. As you can hopefully tell there is no falsetto sound in my voice and it is effortless to keep it at the 215hz fundamental frequency. It is actually hard to talk in any other range. If I do try to talk in a lower pitch, my voice bottoms out around 155hz and it sounds like I am trying to be silly.
Neko- hahaha how appropriate. You want to steal my voice?? Well I am sorry to say but I am already human and have no desire to be anything else. Nor would I trade my voice for anything! I've already experienced not talking and I do not wish to go back!
girl you look fierce- I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't know if you can notice it in the recording, but there is still a hint of resistance in my voice.. i.e. it is not up to full volume yet and does take a little bit more air to make a noise. I expect the color and timbre of my voice to change greatly in another month and especially another year when I am able to completely relax my throat and apply resonance the way that I like to. I have a feeling that it will always sound a little childlike, though, that is just my voice ;)
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in, you really have no idea how happy all these comments have made me about my decision to try this surgery. Hopefully these accounts are helpful for you and others. Dr. Kim does incredible work and I hope that this thread gives other people the information and confidence they might need to decide to go through with it as well. It was definitely a little bit nerve wracking not having a nice big source of info on it and I did feel quite a few unknowns popping up (especially about the recovery), and that is part of the reason why I'm trying to be so detailed here!
Nicolette, to answer your questions-
There is still a month of recovery to go, I am probably at about 50% right now as it's been just over a month since the operation. Right now I am not allowed to sing at all (they say don't sing whatsoever until the 2-3 month mark) because singing and yelling put a huge amount of vibrational stress on the vocal chords- so much that it could actually stretch the surgical area and risk undoing the surgery. In exactly one month I begin these range building vocal exercises that they taught me how to do at my follow up exam right before I left Korea. They are supposed to improve my range, resonance, and control over my voice. I guess I am not expecting to have much of a singing voice until I've been doing the vocal exercises for a while. Some of the exercises include up/down sweeps and making various noises at different pitches. Kind of standard stuff for anyone wanting to increase the range of their voice. And to answer your last concern, the quality of one's voice is not altered with this surgery- it is only the pitch. As you can hopefully tell there is no falsetto sound in my voice and it is effortless to keep it at the 215hz fundamental frequency. It is actually hard to talk in any other range. If I do try to talk in a lower pitch, my voice bottoms out around 155hz and it sounds like I am trying to be silly.
Neko- hahaha how appropriate. You want to steal my voice?? Well I am sorry to say but I am already human and have no desire to be anything else. Nor would I trade my voice for anything! I've already experienced not talking and I do not wish to go back!
girl you look fierce- I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't know if you can notice it in the recording, but there is still a hint of resistance in my voice.. i.e. it is not up to full volume yet and does take a little bit more air to make a noise. I expect the color and timbre of my voice to change greatly in another month and especially another year when I am able to completely relax my throat and apply resonance the way that I like to. I have a feeling that it will always sound a little childlike, though, that is just my voice ;)
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in, you really have no idea how happy all these comments have made me about my decision to try this surgery. Hopefully these accounts are helpful for you and others. Dr. Kim does incredible work and I hope that this thread gives other people the information and confidence they might need to decide to go through with it as well. It was definitely a little bit nerve wracking not having a nice big source of info on it and I did feel quite a few unknowns popping up (especially about the recovery), and that is part of the reason why I'm trying to be so detailed here!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: bullwinklle on June 13, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
Post by: bullwinklle on June 13, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 13, 2013, 12:40:45 PM
Neko- hahaha how appropriate. You want to steal my voice?? Well I am sorry to say but I am already human and have no desire to be anything else. Nor would I trade my voice for anything! I've already experienced not talking and I do not wish to go back!
Rats! :( What am I going to do with this extra pair of human legs now?
I won't steal your voice (but don't let your guard down >:-)), but your posts about this have certainly piqued my interest in pursuing the surgery myself. I'm mostly happy with my voice as is, but not being able to sing has been a major letdown for me. If this is a means to that end...time to start saving.
Thank you for sharing your experience in such detail.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 13, 2013, 05:54:39 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 13, 2013, 05:54:39 PM
What an amazing transition. :) I am having this surgery too. Just have to wait until I can afford this. Within another year. Not very nice being mistaken for a male on the telephone. It's all very exciting, and I can't wait! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 14, 2013, 02:28:14 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 14, 2013, 02:28:14 AM
Quote from: NekoKoNeko on June 13, 2013, 01:40:08 PM
Rats! :( What am I going to do with this extra pair of human legs now?
I won't steal your voice (but don't let your guard down >:-)), but your posts about this have certainly piqued my interest in pursuing the surgery myself. I'm mostly happy with my voice as is, but not being able to sing has been a major letdown for me. If this is a means to that end...time to start saving.
Thank you for sharing your experience in such detail.
Well if I remember correctly, you can't steal my voice unless I sing so... guess I won't have to worry about that for at least another month ;) I will definitely try to sing when it's time though- just don't be surprised if it takes me a while to post something because I may want to work on it a little bit!
And it is my pleasure, really. It's a huge joy for me sharing this experience with you :)
Quote from: Kiwi4Ever on June 13, 2013, 05:54:39 PM
What an amazing transition. :) I am having this surgery too. Just have to wait until I can afford this. Within another year. Not very nice being mistaken for a male on the telephone. It's all very exciting, and I can't wait! :)
Congratulations! Yeson did mention to me that they had met another patient thanks to me, I wonder if it was you or someone who has already scheduled? Either way I'm happy for you!
This has been the most amazing point in my transition so far. All of my confidence issues out and about: GONE. In every aspect I am relaxed, happy to be me, and enjoying being a member of society. There is not a single shard of worry about my voice. It wasn't like I was unhappy before, but I always felt a kind of guilt for not using my feminine voice... like I wasn't living up to what I should be able to or something. That feeling is history. I love using my voice now, and I've become instantly more relaxed about everything else in my transition :D
26 days and I can try to sing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 14, 2013, 04:35:50 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Ever on June 14, 2013, 04:35:50 AM
I don't think it would be me Jenny...I haven't discussed Susan's with them...or you ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 04:19:41 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 04:19:41 AM
Well I had no idea how goofy my before voice would sound to me... but here it is anyway :P
[U.S.patient] Voice before and after Voice Feminization Surgery at Yeson Voice Center (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsRHG6GgNA#)
[U.S.patient] Voice before and after Voice Feminization Surgery at Yeson Voice Center (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsRHG6GgNA#)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 04:25:00 AM
Post by: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 04:25:00 AM
That is fantastic!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 19, 2013, 04:34:32 AM
Post by: barbie on June 19, 2013, 04:34:32 AM
Miraculous. Modern medical art has been enhanced so greatly.
By the way, Jenny, no pain or problem in your throat?
barbie~~
By the way, Jenny, no pain or problem in your throat?
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 04:52:11 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 04:52:11 AM
No pain no problem! :D
My volume has come back a TON even from that recording a week ago. Still a little ways to go, but at this rate I think I'll be up to normal volume levels in less than a week. I'm still not allowed to yell or sing though. I have another 3 weeks to wait for that.
Already I'm having no problem holding a conversation with someone even with background noise in the mix.. When I saw MaidofOrleans last week the same could not be said!
I've been having a blast using my voice every chance I get. Simply the most rewarding change I've witnessed in my transition so far. In a parallel life, I would do it again in a heartbeat.
My volume has come back a TON even from that recording a week ago. Still a little ways to go, but at this rate I think I'll be up to normal volume levels in less than a week. I'm still not allowed to yell or sing though. I have another 3 weeks to wait for that.
Already I'm having no problem holding a conversation with someone even with background noise in the mix.. When I saw MaidofOrleans last week the same could not be said!
I've been having a blast using my voice every chance I get. Simply the most rewarding change I've witnessed in my transition so far. In a parallel life, I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kyh on June 19, 2013, 04:56:41 AM
Post by: kyh on June 19, 2013, 04:56:41 AM
That is an amazing change! To be honest I expected your pre op voice to be much girlier than it was, because I looked at your profile and saw a beautiful girl, so I imagined a voice that was very feminine. But it was kind of boyish actually! Now though, so amazing! That is some fantastic work they've done, and you sound 100% female! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 04:59:21 AM
Post by: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 04:59:21 AM
This is so amazing, I'm speechless at the change.
It occurred to me, for passing, this may be more important than SRS, just as some consider FFS as more important.
It occurred to me, for passing, this may be more important than SRS, just as some consider FFS as more important.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kyh on June 19, 2013, 05:12:16 AM
Post by: kyh on June 19, 2013, 05:12:16 AM
Quote from: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 04:59:21 AM
This is so amazing, I'm speechless at the change.
It occurred to me, for passing, this may be more important than SRS, just as some consider FFS as more important.
I think so as well. Honestly, the voice makes more of an impact in my mind. as far as gender goes, than the appearance does. Because there are so many women I see and talk to who are quite masculine looking, and if it wasn't for their female voices I'd be just really confused ???
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on June 19, 2013, 08:07:23 AM
Post by: Shantel on June 19, 2013, 08:07:23 AM
Quote from: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 04:59:21 AM
This is so amazing, I'm speechless at the change.
It occurred to me, for passing, this may be more important than SRS, just as some consider FFS as more important.
Amen to that, Wow Jennygirl!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on June 19, 2013, 08:08:01 AM
Post by: Nicolette on June 19, 2013, 08:08:01 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 04:19:41 AM
Well I had no idea how goofy my before voice would sound to me... but here it is anyway :P
You're voice post-op sounds great now. But your pre-op voice sounds like you had no voice therapy whatsoever. Did you attempt any voice therapy?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on June 19, 2013, 08:22:58 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on June 19, 2013, 08:22:58 AM
Wow you sound amazing! I've been in contact with Yeson and I'm ready to schedule my surgery for December. You're results are really inspiring.
Did you end up going alone or with somebody else? Was it easy enough to get around without being able to speak and without knowing any Korean?
I could be wrong but I think the pre-op test has you speak at your "natural" pitch instead of using your feminine voice.
Did you end up going alone or with somebody else? Was it easy enough to get around without being able to speak and without knowing any Korean?
Quote from: Nicolette on June 19, 2013, 08:08:01 AM
You're voice post-op sounds great now. But your pre-op voice sounds like you had no voice therapy whatsoever. Did you attempt any voice therapy?
I could be wrong but I think the pre-op test has you speak at your "natural" pitch instead of using your feminine voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on June 19, 2013, 08:31:37 AM
Post by: Nicolette on June 19, 2013, 08:31:37 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on June 19, 2013, 08:22:58 AM
Wow you sound amazing! I've been in contact with Yeson and I'm ready to schedule my surgery for December. You're results are really inspiring.
Did you end up going alone or with somebody else? Was it easy enough to get around without being able to speak and without knowing any Korean?
I could be wrong but I think the pre-op test has you speak at your "natural" pitch instead of using your feminine voice.
There comes a point at which one's "natural" voice/pitch becomes one's feminine voice and the muscle memory used to obtain the original pitch is all but forgotten. So it would be interesting how this would go for someone who went through speech therapy and now naturally speaks at 185 Hz. Would they have to relearn how to speak with a lower pitch? Otherwise they may speak ultrasonic post-op.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: eh-lyssa on June 19, 2013, 09:12:30 AM
Post by: eh-lyssa on June 19, 2013, 09:12:30 AM
Holy crap! The before and after don't even sound like the same person. Amazing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Theo on June 19, 2013, 10:56:14 AM
Post by: Theo on June 19, 2013, 10:56:14 AM
That is pretty darn amazing. Methinks I need to stop listening to it, otherwise I'll just forget to continue my voice practice and fly to Seoul... :p
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on June 19, 2013, 12:17:48 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on June 19, 2013, 12:17:48 PM
Okay, now that was pretty darned inspiring. Especially since I feel like my natural speaking voice has a very similar base tone and resonance. That was pretty much what I was waiting for, because I was wondering from the very beginning of this topic whether your pre voice sounded like mine. I'm actually surprised how much it does. So needless to say, although I am still going to proceed with voice training, and I'll re-evaluate once I've been doing it for a bit longer, I am definitely considering this as an option now.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 12:41:57 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 12:41:57 PM
Shantel, eh-lyssa, Theo- thanks for listening and for the feedback :) I could not be happier with my results already!! Still so much recovery and learning to go. I am very excited
Thanks kyh! Yes I agree the regular voice I would always fall back into was very boyish. I had suuuuch a hard time breaking out of it no matter how much I would practice my feminine voice, which was in the fundamental range of about 180hz (my voice now is ~212hz though).
It definitely feels that way. I can't describe to you the difference it has made for me out in public. It's already hard to imagine that not even 6 weeks ago my voice was nearly an octave lower. I am amazed how much I did not care about people clocking me.. Lol
Thanks Nicolette :) Yes I was doing self voice therapy with Kathe Perez' mp3 tutor. I practiced mostly every day for 30 mins or so in the car to/from work. I have some recordings of this time, and listening back I was still quite a far way off despite having resonance figured out and pitch scraping the bare minimum. It was a female voice though- I just did not have the courage to use it because I didn't have any confidence that it sounded legitimate.
In the end, I am SO glad I found Yeson and did the surgery. Upon examination there I found out that my vocal cords were damaged and continuing to train voice feminization without surgery would have landed me with even bigger problems. Surgery turned out to be absolutely the right choice for the health of my vocal chords- not just for the sound and confidence.
And to answer your question about muscle memory, I do not think that someone who normally used a higher pitch would have any issue adjusting. Your brain would already be accustomed to the higher pitch. It definitely took me some time to adjust from 140hz to ~212hz. For the first few days I kept trying to go back down, but the frequencies weren't there so my voice was cracking a lot and I sounded very hoarse. That was probably also partly due to the botox injection for vocal tremor, too.
That is great! Congratulations!! You will not be disappointed with the experience- I can almost guarantee it. They have a wonderful staff and Jessie the english patient coordinator is such a real sweetheart and happily answers all questions you may have during recovery. I had a lot of those ;)
I traveled with a good friend of mine and it wasn't hard at all not talking. I just typed in my smartphone notepad whenever I needed to communicate. We had to learn how to communicate like that, but it did not take long and thinking back it's almost like I had a voice the whole time.
And you are correct about the pre-op recording. That was my natural pitch, as relaxed as possible. They had me do a second recording in an attempt to use my feminine voice, but (like all other times I tried to use it in front of people) I panicked and pretty much the same voice came out. I think my fundamental frequency was only 20hz higher :/ I'm happy they used the regular voice though, that was the one I was stuck using in day to day life.
Keep in mind that I did do about 4 months of feminine voice practice on my own, despite not being able to break into it in public. I was fairly happy with how it sounded, even though it's nothing like what it is now. The biggest change I have noticed is my confidence to use what I've practiced. It seems like the pitch shift makes all the difference for allowing me to use what I have learned.
Quote from: kyh on June 19, 2013, 04:56:41 AM
That is an amazing change! To be honest I expected your pre op voice to be much girlier than it was, because I looked at your profile and saw a beautiful girl, so I imagined a voice that was very feminine. But it was kind of boyish actually! Now though, so amazing! That is some fantastic work they've done, and you sound 100% female! <3
Thanks kyh! Yes I agree the regular voice I would always fall back into was very boyish. I had suuuuch a hard time breaking out of it no matter how much I would practice my feminine voice, which was in the fundamental range of about 180hz (my voice now is ~212hz though).
Quote from: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 04:59:21 AM
This is so amazing, I'm speechless at the change.
It occurred to me, for passing, this may be more important than SRS, just as some consider FFS as more important.
It definitely feels that way. I can't describe to you the difference it has made for me out in public. It's already hard to imagine that not even 6 weeks ago my voice was nearly an octave lower. I am amazed how much I did not care about people clocking me.. Lol
Quote from: Nicolette on June 19, 2013, 08:08:01 AM
You're voice post-op sounds great now. But your pre-op voice sounds like you had no voice therapy whatsoever. Did you attempt any voice therapy?
There comes a point at which one's "natural" voice/pitch becomes one's feminine voice and the muscle memory used to obtain the original pitch is all but forgotten. So it would be interesting how this would go for someone who went through speech therapy and now naturally speaks at 185 Hz. Would they have to relearn how to speak with a lower pitch? Otherwise they may speak ultrasonic post-op.
Thanks Nicolette :) Yes I was doing self voice therapy with Kathe Perez' mp3 tutor. I practiced mostly every day for 30 mins or so in the car to/from work. I have some recordings of this time, and listening back I was still quite a far way off despite having resonance figured out and pitch scraping the bare minimum. It was a female voice though- I just did not have the courage to use it because I didn't have any confidence that it sounded legitimate.
In the end, I am SO glad I found Yeson and did the surgery. Upon examination there I found out that my vocal cords were damaged and continuing to train voice feminization without surgery would have landed me with even bigger problems. Surgery turned out to be absolutely the right choice for the health of my vocal chords- not just for the sound and confidence.
And to answer your question about muscle memory, I do not think that someone who normally used a higher pitch would have any issue adjusting. Your brain would already be accustomed to the higher pitch. It definitely took me some time to adjust from 140hz to ~212hz. For the first few days I kept trying to go back down, but the frequencies weren't there so my voice was cracking a lot and I sounded very hoarse. That was probably also partly due to the botox injection for vocal tremor, too.
Quote from: abbyt89 on June 19, 2013, 08:22:58 AM
Wow you sound amazing! I've been in contact with Yeson and I'm ready to schedule my surgery for December. You're results are really inspiring.
Did you end up going alone or with somebody else? Was it easy enough to get around without being able to speak and without knowing any Korean?
I could be wrong but I think the pre-op test has you speak at your "natural" pitch instead of using your feminine voice.
That is great! Congratulations!! You will not be disappointed with the experience- I can almost guarantee it. They have a wonderful staff and Jessie the english patient coordinator is such a real sweetheart and happily answers all questions you may have during recovery. I had a lot of those ;)
I traveled with a good friend of mine and it wasn't hard at all not talking. I just typed in my smartphone notepad whenever I needed to communicate. We had to learn how to communicate like that, but it did not take long and thinking back it's almost like I had a voice the whole time.
And you are correct about the pre-op recording. That was my natural pitch, as relaxed as possible. They had me do a second recording in an attempt to use my feminine voice, but (like all other times I tried to use it in front of people) I panicked and pretty much the same voice came out. I think my fundamental frequency was only 20hz higher :/ I'm happy they used the regular voice though, that was the one I was stuck using in day to day life.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on June 19, 2013, 12:17:48 PM
Okay, now that was pretty darned inspiring. Especially since I feel like my natural speaking voice has a very similar base tone and resonance. That was pretty much what I was waiting for, because I was wondering from the very beginning of this topic whether your pre voice sounded like mine. I'm actually surprised how much it does. So needless to say, although I am still going to proceed with voice training, and I'll re-evaluate once I've been doing it for a bit longer, I am definitely considering this as an option now.
Keep in mind that I did do about 4 months of feminine voice practice on my own, despite not being able to break into it in public. I was fairly happy with how it sounded, even though it's nothing like what it is now. The biggest change I have noticed is my confidence to use what I've practiced. It seems like the pitch shift makes all the difference for allowing me to use what I have learned.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ZoeM on June 19, 2013, 12:48:35 PM
Post by: ZoeM on June 19, 2013, 12:48:35 PM
The talk of vocal cord damage is worrying. How do you tell? Could a physician diagnose it and see if it's actually damaged?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 12:59:23 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 12:59:23 PM
Quote from: ZoeM on June 19, 2013, 12:48:35 PM
The talk of vocal cord damage is worrying. How do you tell? Could a physician diagnose it and see if it's actually damaged?
Any ENT with a laryngoscope should be able to diagnose it, I don't think a general physician would have the right tools.
An easy way to tell is if your voice has any wavering at all when you try to hold a steady pitch with no vibrato. With my voice, when I tried to hold a note steadily, the volume would slightly cut in and out. For some, the pitch wavers. For others, the volume wavers or completely cuts off sometimes during speech. That is a vocal tremor. Sometimes it's a nerve related thing and sometimes it is from trauma or damage and the body tries to overcompensate for the weakness on one side of the cords.
I always thought I just had phlegm in my throat but it turned out to be a vocal tremor due to trauma I have likely been living with for over a decade. I think the damage was probably done in high school when I was trying to belt out Tenor notes instead of Baritone where I should have been.
If you don't have any problem holding a note perfectly steady, you're probably fine! And if you're worried about future damage, just make sure you give yourself breaks when practicing. You should NEVER try to push your voice through hoarseness, dryness, or pain in the throat. You will not make it stronger. I almost learned that the hard way! I was still doing that crap thinking I was "fine" because of my decades of experience as a singer. Now I believe that singers are probably at a much higher risk.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ZoeM on June 19, 2013, 01:08:12 PM
Post by: ZoeM on June 19, 2013, 01:08:12 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 12:59:23 PM
Any ENT with a laryngoscope should be able to diagnose it, I don't think a general physician would have the right tools.
An easy way to tell is if your voice has any wavering at all when you try to hold a steady pitch with no vibrato. With my voice, when I tried to hold a note steadily, the volume would slightly cut in and out. For some, the pitch wavers. For others, the volume wavers or completely cuts off sometimes during speech. That is a vocal tremor. Sometimes it's a nerve related thing and sometimes it is from trauma or damage and the body tries to overcompensate for the weakness on one side of the cords.
I always thought I just had phlegm in my throat but it turned out to be a vocal tremor due to trauma I have likely been living with for over a decade. I think the damage was probably done in high school when I was trying to belt out Tenor notes instead of Baritone where I should have been.
If you don't have any problem holding a note perfectly steady, you're probably fine! And if you're worried about future damage, just make sure you give yourself breaks when practicing. You should NEVER try to push your voice through hoarseness, dryness, or pain in the throat. You will not make it stronger. I almost learned that the hard way! I was still doing that crap thinking I was "fine" because of my decades of experience as a singer. Now I believe that singers are probably at a much higher risk.
Ok, then - can you listen to this and tell me if it sounds wavery? *can't tell if her own voice shakes or if it's standard vibrations*
http://soundcloud.com/omicron123/sounds-from-wednesday/s-DYNlB (http://soundcloud.com/omicron123/sounds-from-wednesday/s-DYNlB)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 02:40:15 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: ZoeM on June 19, 2013, 01:08:12 PM
Ok, then - can you listen to this and tell me if it sounds wavery? *can't tell if her own voice shakes or if it's standard vibrations*
http://soundcloud.com/omicron123/sounds-from-wednesday/s-DYNlB (http://soundcloud.com/omicron123/sounds-from-wednesday/s-DYNlB)
Well it's just my own untrained subjective assessment, but I don't hear any wavering like I had. It was more of a switch on/off with mine.
You're probably fine :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on June 19, 2013, 03:07:12 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on June 19, 2013, 03:07:12 PM
Okay, I have to admit, that talk about vocal damage due to trying to force the voice higher is also worrying me now, because when my voice first changed I worked like hell to try and force it back into being able to sing in the falsetto range, and I pushed it REALLY hard, beyond what it was physically capable of, because I was so mortified when I lost my soprano notes. And my voice really hasn't had the same purity of tone since... it's a lot rougher and raspier. Okay, now I'm kind of worried... ':(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 03:52:50 PM
Post by: Jamie D on June 19, 2013, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: ZoeM on June 19, 2013, 01:08:12 PM
Ok, then - can you listen to this and tell me if it sounds wavery? *can't tell if her own voice shakes or if it's standard vibrations*
http://soundcloud.com/omicron123/sounds-from-wednesday/s-DYNlB (http://soundcloud.com/omicron123/sounds-from-wednesday/s-DYNlB)
Zoe, just look at the steady line on the graph of your voice. Almost a straight line!
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ashley_thomas on June 19, 2013, 10:41:45 PM
Post by: ashley_thomas on June 19, 2013, 10:41:45 PM
This thread gives me so much hope!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: BunnyBee on June 20, 2013, 01:09:38 PM
Post by: BunnyBee on June 20, 2013, 01:09:38 PM
Still in awe of your new voice, Jenny. I really hope I can find a way to get my voice where I'm happy with it without surgery, but it is def nice to know that there is an option that seems to work wonders if I lose that battle :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Susan T on June 20, 2013, 04:09:46 PM
Post by: Susan T on June 20, 2013, 04:09:46 PM
The results of you surgery are nothing short of spectacular. I don't know how much it cost you, but however much it was it was worth every penny.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on June 20, 2013, 04:31:42 PM
Post by: kathyp on June 20, 2013, 04:31:42 PM
Wow! Thank you so much for following through with updates. Your voice change is amazing! I can totally relate to the stage fright of speaking in public, I just freeze and smile quite often and it sucks. I've been doing Perez's mp3's and she does a good job of teaching resonance and I think she's aware that most students are still stuck after the course ends because four weeks after you commence the course she sends out pitches to sign up for more advanced courses.
I been interested in Yeson for awhile and plan on surgery with them in early fall, your reporting has wiped any doubts I may have had about whether they were the best, now I know.
I do have two questions for you. What hotel do you stay at and are there lower priced accommodations
that would suffice?
Again, Thank You Very Much
Kathy
I been interested in Yeson for awhile and plan on surgery with them in early fall, your reporting has wiped any doubts I may have had about whether they were the best, now I know.
I do have two questions for you. What hotel do you stay at and are there lower priced accommodations
that would suffice?
Again, Thank You Very Much
Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jamielikesyou on June 20, 2013, 07:09:34 PM
Post by: jamielikesyou on June 20, 2013, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: ashley_thomas on June 19, 2013, 10:41:45 PM
This thread gives me so much hope!!!
+1 to this! I'm speechless. I have this thread bookmarked and a new piggybank ready to go :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 20, 2013, 10:46:10 PM
Post by: barbie on June 20, 2013, 10:46:10 PM
Quote from: kathyp on June 20, 2013, 04:31:42 PM
I do have two questions for you. What hotel do you stay at and are there lower priced accommodations
that would suffice?
Again, Thank You Very Much
Kathy
Hotels in Seoul are generally expensive like other mega cities around the world. There are many 'motels' at Seoul area, and the price is between US $40-$50, but I would not recommend them for foreign tourists.
If anybody wants economic hotels, I would recommend 'hotel noble' located in the old town of Seoul. You can make reservation through the internet at: http://www.noblehotel.co.kr/?r=en (http://www.noblehotel.co.kr/?r=en) The price is 70,000 won (about US $65) per night. It was once 50,000 won, but increased recently because of the increasing number of visitors.
A drawback is that you need to walk about 10 mins to reach a nearby subway, and to change the subway line at least once to reach Yeson. Within walking distance, there is 'Insadong', a popular destination for foreign tourists. Also there are two or three beautiful where you can walk around.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on June 20, 2013, 11:04:21 PM
Post by: smile_jma on June 20, 2013, 11:04:21 PM
Thats so amazing, OMG. If you don't mind, can you PM me with a ballpark range of the price you *might* have paid? Don't have to be too specific if you don't want. I live around Seoul, so I'm curious to know how much I ave to save at my low paying job.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 20, 2013, 11:21:42 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 20, 2013, 11:21:42 PM
We paid around $1250 for two of us to stay at Hotel Prince Seoul for 10 nights in a double twin bed room. It is a GREAT location, right next the Myeongdong shopping district and the escalator for the subway system.
I've definitely been to a lot of cities that were waaay more expensive (in Europe). $125 a night for 2 people isn't bad at all. You could probably find cheaper, too. Also, cab faire there is so cheap it's nuts. Like $10 to get all the way across the entire city. If you had 3 people, it would be just as cheap as the subway.
I'm SO happy to see that this thread is helping spread the good word about Yeson's procedure :) Hopefully I can answer all the questions! But Jessie at Yeson is also wonderful, too.
I've definitely been to a lot of cities that were waaay more expensive (in Europe). $125 a night for 2 people isn't bad at all. You could probably find cheaper, too. Also, cab faire there is so cheap it's nuts. Like $10 to get all the way across the entire city. If you had 3 people, it would be just as cheap as the subway.
I'm SO happy to see that this thread is helping spread the good word about Yeson's procedure :) Hopefully I can answer all the questions! But Jessie at Yeson is also wonderful, too.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on June 21, 2013, 12:13:08 AM
Post by: smile_jma on June 21, 2013, 12:13:08 AM
I mean for the procedure itself. I live in Korea, maybe an hour and a half away from Yeson by subway.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 21, 2013, 12:20:56 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 21, 2013, 12:20:56 AM
It's pricey but still not as pricey as Dr. Thomas who is I think [the last time I checked] near 10K.
7350us for the procedure and 400 if you need botox for vocal tremor
7350us for the procedure and 400 if you need botox for vocal tremor
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on June 21, 2013, 12:40:51 AM
Post by: smile_jma on June 21, 2013, 12:40:51 AM
Wow, thank you. A little out of reach for me right now, but now i have a new goal.
What was the surgery like? Were you awake? Were you in a sense able to "pick" your voice during? Or was it just "I'm going to tighten these chords and we'll see the outcome."
What was the surgery like? Were you awake? Were you in a sense able to "pick" your voice during? Or was it just "I'm going to tighten these chords and we'll see the outcome."
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 21, 2013, 08:47:51 AM
Post by: barbie on June 21, 2013, 08:47:51 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 21, 2013, 12:20:56 AM
7350us for the procedure and 400 if you need botox for vocal tremor
That amount nearly equals to my monthly salary :D Actually, I wanted a kind of laser treatment for wrinkles, but my eldest son got laser treatment for acne. I can not afford to do two treatments at the same time, and I postponed the laser treatment for myself. Probably, next year when I will get incentive. And, at that time, my second son probably will need laser treatment.
Some women here in Korea carry handbags of > US$6,000. I am sure.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 22, 2013, 10:43:18 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 22, 2013, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: smile_jma on June 21, 2013, 12:40:51 AM
Wow, thank you. A little out of reach for me right now, but now i have a new goal.
What was the surgery like? Were you awake? Were you in a sense able to "pick" your voice during? Or was it just "I'm going to tighten these chords and we'll see the outcome."
I was asleep for the surgery :) Oh god I can't imagine being awake for it. They use this crazy stainless tube that goes down your throat to keep everything open and accessible, then they go in with their custom developed micro instruments to remove a small mucous membrane and tie the permanent sutures. The surgery takes about 1.5 hours. When I woke up, there was a very dull but intense pain in my throat and my jaw & tongue were a little sore. My tongue was really swollen in one area, like maybe it had been pinched for a while by the throat opening instrument (that took about 1.5 weeks to subside and to regain full taste on that one part of my tongue).
It was also very hard to breathe right after waking up. There was a lot of phlegm and my cords were swollen from the surgery so my throat kept wanting to close when I tried to breathe in too quickly. It was slightly unnerving actually- I wish they would have warned me about that. For a few moments I thought I would suffocate because when I gasped for air it closed up! I just controlled my breathing and I was fine. Just trying VERY hard not to cough up the phlegm. That was the longest hour of my life (they don't let you drink anything for 1 hour after you wake up). Once I was able to drink water, I was in heaven.
They are very certain of the outcome, statistically it raises the pitch of one's voice by 75hz. They were dead on with me. My voice is up ~73hz after 1 month of recovery. Dr. Kim doesn't really let you decide, he just goes for the 75hz on everyone it seems. He will also fix any other problems with your vocal cords simultaneously which is super nice!
I hope this answers your questions :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 23, 2013, 11:33:23 AM
Post by: barbie on June 23, 2013, 11:33:23 AM
Yesterday, a news paper here reported that Yeson has performed voice surgeries for about 180 transgender people from 23 countries around the world. According to the article, the cost is about 1.5 times more expensive than in the U.S., but the higher safety increasingly attracts patients.
barbie~~
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on June 23, 2013, 02:47:52 PM
Post by: Kate_H on June 23, 2013, 02:47:52 PM
Jenny your result is phenomenal, I am So jealous :) I can't wait to follow your lead on this, hopefully early in the new year.. As I'm a bit surgeried out at the mo, seeing as I'm typing this from my hospital bed, having had grs on Friday, lol
Xx
Xx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on June 24, 2013, 04:36:26 AM
Post by: smile_jma on June 24, 2013, 04:36:26 AM
Thank you~ That was actually quite informative.
Will they do trache shaves at the same time or do they recommend those first?
Edit: Sorry, I guess I could email them..
Will they do trache shaves at the same time or do they recommend those first?
Edit: Sorry, I guess I could email them..
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 24, 2013, 04:55:58 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 24, 2013, 04:55:58 AM
Kate- I wish you a speedy recovery! I am jealous of your GRS! I am getting more excited for that as the months go by.
smile_jma- they actually don't recommend trach shaves at all, because it can lower the result in some cases. That was one of the reasons they tied off 1/2 of my cords instead of 1/3- because I have already had the trach shave and there was a chance that my results would be less. But luckily, that was not the case!
I would definitely get it done beforehand and make sure it is from a VERY competent doctor who is not going to take too much off and mess up / lower your pre-VFS voice. It could reduce the amount of tension possible which is necessary to raising the pitch. Also you should space the procedures by at least 2-3 months.
smile_jma- they actually don't recommend trach shaves at all, because it can lower the result in some cases. That was one of the reasons they tied off 1/2 of my cords instead of 1/3- because I have already had the trach shave and there was a chance that my results would be less. But luckily, that was not the case!
I would definitely get it done beforehand and make sure it is from a VERY competent doctor who is not going to take too much off and mess up / lower your pre-VFS voice. It could reduce the amount of tension possible which is necessary to raising the pitch. Also you should space the procedures by at least 2-3 months.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ♥ Dutchess on June 26, 2013, 04:18:43 AM
Post by: ♥ Dutchess on June 26, 2013, 04:18:43 AM
Jenny, girl, you are TRULY inspirational. I am totally happy for you! You sound magnifico!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 26, 2013, 04:45:23 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 26, 2013, 04:45:23 AM
Thank you Dutchess!! :D :D
My voice quality is improving like crazy right now, I'll do another recording of the same passage again in a few weeks. Every now and then I record it again to check my progress. The pitch is staying the same but the tonal quality is changing a lot. It feels soooo much more natural now, not nearly as dry.
Since transitioning, I've never been so happy just to interact with other people. Not that I was unhappy before, but it's truly been a huge quality of life improvement. The past week has left me speechless on many occasions, amazed at how people are treating me differently and really there is no question in my mind whether I would do this surgery again.
Cherrie- I don't have insurance so I couldn't tell you for sure. I'd imagine if you put enough time and effort into it... maybe?
My voice quality is improving like crazy right now, I'll do another recording of the same passage again in a few weeks. Every now and then I record it again to check my progress. The pitch is staying the same but the tonal quality is changing a lot. It feels soooo much more natural now, not nearly as dry.
Since transitioning, I've never been so happy just to interact with other people. Not that I was unhappy before, but it's truly been a huge quality of life improvement. The past week has left me speechless on many occasions, amazed at how people are treating me differently and really there is no question in my mind whether I would do this surgery again.
Cherrie- I don't have insurance so I couldn't tell you for sure. I'd imagine if you put enough time and effort into it... maybe?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on June 26, 2013, 05:22:32 AM
Post by: Carlita on June 26, 2013, 05:22:32 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 19, 2013, 04:19:41 AM
Well I had no idea how goofy my before voice would sound to me... but here it is anyway :P
[U.S.patient] Voice before and after Voice Feminization Surgery at Yeson Voice Center (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsRHG6GgNA#)
Oh. My. God. That is absolutely incredible! I'm not surprised people are treating you better Jenny. ALL they can hear is a girl!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Horizon on June 27, 2013, 12:22:06 AM
Post by: Horizon on June 27, 2013, 12:22:06 AM
HOLY #%(! THAT'S AN UH-MAZING DIFFERENCE!!! I was only expecting a minor change, like a higher male voice to that of a lower female's, but that....that blew my mind. Thank you so much for the inspiration and having the girlballs to take a risk that huge! I want to spend the time training my voice first, but it's nice knowing the surgical options are so effective.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on June 27, 2013, 10:33:10 AM
Post by: Shantel on June 27, 2013, 10:33:10 AM
Yes what an amazing vocal transition Jenny has experienced and she sounds so natural! Something weird about female voices I have been noticing as of late are the young girls as well as women up into their 30's that are suddenly emulating Kim Kardashian's squeeky little girl voice as if they are talking only from high up in their necks. It's aggravating to listen to these parrots!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 27, 2013, 07:05:28 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 27, 2013, 07:05:28 PM
Thank you and thank you again. My goodness. So glad that more people are seeing this as an option! So much better than CTA or really any other voice surgery.
My voice is getting really a lot stronger, and the roughness when speaking at regular volumes is almost completely gone. It is super gone at the lower volumes.
I'm also noticing my range starting to increase during regular speech. I'm really starting to register that this is my voice. I'm no longer having dreams where I still have a low voice :)
My range still has a ways to go (and I hope it goes a LOT) because I still haven't been able to make a squeak higher than I could before the surgery which was a C5 on the scale. I can still only squeak (and I have to do it gently, too) up to a Bb4. It's only two semitones lower, but I really hope to be able to make those super high pitched squeak noises if I want :D It may be wishful thinking though. Only time will tell.
I also wonder what singing range I will have, because right now I feel as though my chest voice switches to a falsetto type of sound at about the same point- even though the falsetto sounds way less like falsetto now. I'm not even trying to sing though, more like saying a single short word at specific pitches to see how it feels.
My voice is getting really a lot stronger, and the roughness when speaking at regular volumes is almost completely gone. It is super gone at the lower volumes.
I'm also noticing my range starting to increase during regular speech. I'm really starting to register that this is my voice. I'm no longer having dreams where I still have a low voice :)
My range still has a ways to go (and I hope it goes a LOT) because I still haven't been able to make a squeak higher than I could before the surgery which was a C5 on the scale. I can still only squeak (and I have to do it gently, too) up to a Bb4. It's only two semitones lower, but I really hope to be able to make those super high pitched squeak noises if I want :D It may be wishful thinking though. Only time will tell.
I also wonder what singing range I will have, because right now I feel as though my chest voice switches to a falsetto type of sound at about the same point- even though the falsetto sounds way less like falsetto now. I'm not even trying to sing though, more like saying a single short word at specific pitches to see how it feels.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on June 28, 2013, 05:53:18 AM
Post by: Carlita on June 28, 2013, 05:53:18 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 27, 2013, 07:05:28 PM
I also wonder what singing range I will have, because right now I feel as though my chest voice switches to a falsetto type of sound at about the same point- even though the falsetto sounds way less like falsetto now. I'm not even trying to sing though, more like saying a single short word at specific pitches to see how it feels.
I'm really looking forward to hearing you sing! I love singing so much that I'd hate to lose that ability ... but if I could finally sing along to Joni Mitchell - including the high notes - well, that would make a trip to South Korea worthwhile in itself!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Yukari-sensei on June 30, 2013, 04:43:48 AM
Post by: Yukari-sensei on June 30, 2013, 04:43:48 AM
Wow! Why did I take Japanese instead of Korean??!!
I was contemplating this but was very skeptical of what surgery could achieve. I hate my voice and thought it was going to be with me forever. Now, maybe it won't. Congratulations Jenny and thank you for sharing this with us!
I was contemplating this but was very skeptical of what surgery could achieve. I hate my voice and thought it was going to be with me forever. Now, maybe it won't. Congratulations Jenny and thank you for sharing this with us!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on June 30, 2013, 05:00:04 AM
Post by: Nicolette on June 30, 2013, 05:00:04 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 27, 2013, 07:05:28 PM
Thank you and thank you again. My goodness. So glad that more people are seeing this as an option! So much better than CTA or really any other voice surgery.
My voice is getting really a lot stronger, and the roughness when speaking at regular volumes is almost completely gone. It is super gone at the lower volumes.
I'm also noticing my range starting to increase during regular speech. I'm really starting to register that this is my voice. I'm no longer having dreams where I still have a low voice :)
My range still has a ways to go (and I hope it goes a LOT) because I still haven't been able to make a squeak higher than I could before the surgery which was a C5 on the scale. I can still only squeak (and I have to do it gently, too) up to a Bb4. It's only two semitones lower, but I really hope to be able to make those super high pitched squeak noises if I want :D It may be wishful thinking though. Only time will tell.
I also wonder what singing range I will have, because right now I feel as though my chest voice switches to a falsetto type of sound at about the same point- even though the falsetto sounds way less like falsetto now. I'm not even trying to sing though, more like saying a single short word at specific pitches to see how it feels.
It currently seems that the surgery doesn't actually shift range, but limits it. It limits the ability to reach low pitches and pushes one's pitch mode to a higher frequency. But it doesn't give one an ability to reach a range that they couldn't reach before the surgery. I'd like this to be disproven though. I suspect if this surgery did extend one's pitch range, singers would be arriving in their droves to have this done.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 30, 2013, 07:35:31 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 30, 2013, 07:35:31 AM
Quote from: Nicolette on June 30, 2013, 05:00:04 AM
It currently seems that the surgery doesn't actually shift range, but limits it. It limits the ability to reach low pitches and pushes one's pitch mode to a higher frequency. But it doesn't give one an ability to reach a range that they couldn't reach before the surgery. I'd like this to be disproven though. I suspect if this surgery did extend one's pitch range, singers would be arriving in their droves to have this done.
They did tell me that until I started vocal exercises at 2 months my voice will be almost monotone sounding with very limited range. Yet, even without vocal exercises, every day I notice a little bit more control over the higher pitches and I would say that the line between chest / head voice is still there but it is slightly disappearing- especially during normal speech. I am just becoming much more comfortable with it overall. People who I haven't seen in a week are telling me that my voice sounds way different now, and the reaction is good good good.
One of the most interesting changes I've noticed over the past couple of weeks has been my laugh. It's gone from kind of a crackly odd sounding lower wavelength to a much more girly giggle. I guess I am having to adapt. I've also noticed that just adding a tinge more resonance modification into the mix sends my voice into über girly land which is sometimes fun to do. I think I tend to do that more around people I haven't met before.
Either way my voice has been passing with no issues for what seems like a week or two and it has kind of changed my whole outlook on living as a female. Going back to work at a place I haven't worked for in 4-5 years has brought all sorts of interesting interactions. I'm pretty sure the office as a whole doesn't have any clue I'm trans, which is definitely a first for me. Unless the word got out from the people that I am working with and new me before, everyone else just thinks I am some girl that is really into procedural animation and advanced visual programming ;)
In a week and a half I will begin the vocal exercises and I am VERY curious to see how much of a difference they make. I have high hopes based on what they told me during the pre and post op consultations. I'll be sure to keep you updated with progress, and most likely a new recording for comparison from last month :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: misschievous on June 30, 2013, 07:59:49 AM
Post by: misschievous on June 30, 2013, 07:59:49 AM
It is amazing how well your voice sounds now and to think you haven't even started voice training yet :) Really interested in how it will sound when it's all said and done.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rose35 on July 02, 2013, 06:29:43 PM
Post by: Rose35 on July 02, 2013, 06:29:43 PM
I am new here and trying to get a grip on a vocal surgery that really works. The type of surgery I am looking is the Feminization laryngoplasty with thyrohyoid elevation which seems to have the best results. I know you said you do not like Dr Thomas procedure so do know of other doctors in the states that do theses surgeries?
Thank you Rose
Thank you Rose
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 02, 2013, 07:59:20 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 02, 2013, 07:59:20 PM
Quote from: Rose35 on July 02, 2013, 06:29:43 PM
I am new here and trying to get a grip on a vocal surgery that really works. The type of surgery I am looking is the Feminization laryngoplasty with thyrohyoid elevation which seems to have the best results. I know you said you do not like Dr Thomas procedure so do know of other doctors in the states that do theses surgeries?
Thank you Rose
Yeah I mean to each her own but the feminization laryngoplasty seemed like some of the worst results to me. Most I the samples came out sounding a bit rough or restricted. And there is the risk that you will permanently sound like that or end up sounding like an ex smoker cancer patient.
No there are no docs in the states that do VFSAAC (vocal fold shortening and advancement of the anterior commissure) it's a procedure that is currently unique to Yeson.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 04, 2013, 06:03:18 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 04, 2013, 06:03:18 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 02, 2013, 07:59:20 PMthere are no docs in the states that do VFSAAC (vocal fold shortening and advancement of the anterior commissure) it's a procedure that is currently unique to Yeson.I don't know about USA, but Yeson is not unique. On May 15, 2012 a surgeon in Kiev for $2500 did exactly this and tracheal shave for Victoria from Kharkov (she is currently in Chonburi recovering from SRS). On June 25, 2013 another surgeon in Moscow did the same (also with tracheal shave) for $2000 for Sasha from Moscow. Those surgeons haven't support structure in place for English-speaking patients and have less experience with this surgery, but it's not that diffucult for an ENT (ear-nose-throat) surgeon.
Jenny wrote that the "before" female voice sample she recorded for the clinic was not the best she could do - she didn't manage to alter resonance sufficiently during that recording, but she could for the "after" sample. Have this in mind while listening to samples. Jenny got how to alter resonance, for many MtF it's not as easy. Jenny is right that if a MtF undergoes this surgery but doesn't manage to alter resonance then her voice is perceived as high-pitched male voice.
What resonance is and how to alter it:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179)
(in order to read that message, you need at first to sign up for an yahooID if you haven't one, then to join the voicets (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/join) group).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:01:46 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 04, 2013, 06:03:18 AM
I don't know about USA, but Yeson is not unique. On May 15, 2012 a surgeon in Kiev for $2500 did exactly this and tracheal shave for Victoria from Kharkov (she is currently in Chonburi recovering from SRS). On June 25, 2013 another surgeon in Moscow did the same (also with tracheal shave) for $2000 for Sasha from Moscow. Those surgeons haven't support structure in place for English-speaking patients and have less experience with this surgery, but it's not that diffucult for an ENT (ear-nose-throat) surgeon.
Jenny wrote that the "before" female voice sample she recorded for the clinic was not the best she could do - she didn't manage to alter resonance sufficiently during that recording, but she could for the "after" sample. Have this in mind while listening to samples. Jenny got how to alter resonance, for many MtF it's not as easy. Jenny is right that if a MtF undergoes this surgery but doesn't manage to alter resonance then her voice is perceived as high-pitched male voice.
What resonance is and how to alter it:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179)
(in order to read that message, you need at first to sign up for an yahooID if you haven't one, then to join the voicets (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/join) group).
I would think after a while that other ENT surgeons across the world will learn how to do this surgery in a similar way, because it is the least invasive way to modify the pitch of a voice that currently exists- as long as they are performing it with no incision. I would be interested to know if the surgeons you mention did it sans-incision. Since they also had trach shave, I would assume that is a definite no.
Everything you say about resonance is true, except I disagree that it is as hard as you make it sound. With a few simple exercises it is possible to give your throat the right shape for proper resonance. The hardest part, in my opinion, is trying to modify pitch and resonance at the same time. To me that was kind of like patting my head with one hand and rubbing my belly with the other. Modifying resonance alone is not hard. And if it is difficult for a person, I feel like any competent voice therapist would be able to show them how with a few productive sessions. At the same time, it is true- it is ultimately up to the patient to incorporate this through their own motivation. Yeson also provides vocal exercises which help improve resonance. I have yet to start these exercises, my 2 month post-op date is in 6 days and that is when I will begin! :D
I sincerely hope that Yeson is not the only one to provide this surgery in the future. I could not recommend any other voice procedure to someone... It would be great if Dr. Kim would teach other surgeons the details on what he does to minimize risk and maximize his results... The TS community would benefit greatly from his experience if he were to share it. Maybe someday he will. In the meantime, perhaps other surgeons will start trying versions of their own.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:17:32 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:17:32 PM
In other news, I have 6 days until full recovery! I feel like I am already ready to start the exercises, though.
I'm consistently blown away with how well I pass now in all situations. Last night I told a guy who was hanging out with my group of friends that I am transgendered. He has been hanging out with us for about a week and has interacted with me several times, and talked for about an hour before I decided to tell him randomly. He was in absolute disbelief when I told him, and had all the classic signs of questioning his own sexuality in response to me still being pre-op (he said he has had a huge attraction for me which I did sense almost immediately). Passing like that is absolutely a new experience that I never really expected to have (I always had a hope, though). I am beginning to just trust that I pass when interacting with people without always wondering whether they are reading me, and that is the real kicker- my mindset.
Ever since the results have been in (I would say over the past 2 weeks or so), I have been super relaxed about further surgeries. I had this laundry list that I am now erasing stuff because it is no longer important to me, which feels a-m-a-z-i-n-g. I think that the new voice has a LOT to do with it, because that is what has made the biggest difference in my ability to pass when interacting with people.
I can definitely see why some say that VFS is right up there with SRS.
Anyway, I have been becoming more and more comfortable with the new sound as well as the limited lower range. When I try to say something in a low range (150-160hz) it just sounds silly.. It sounds just like a girl trying to do a low voice :D I've also been humming a few notes here and there and my chest voice range is climbing up and up and up... The lines between chest & falsetto are blurring into something much more female and that gets me SO EXCITED to start singing!!
Well that's about it, just thought I would do a little update for y'all :)
And happy 4th of July for the U.S. readers! :D :icon_dance:
I'm consistently blown away with how well I pass now in all situations. Last night I told a guy who was hanging out with my group of friends that I am transgendered. He has been hanging out with us for about a week and has interacted with me several times, and talked for about an hour before I decided to tell him randomly. He was in absolute disbelief when I told him, and had all the classic signs of questioning his own sexuality in response to me still being pre-op (he said he has had a huge attraction for me which I did sense almost immediately). Passing like that is absolutely a new experience that I never really expected to have (I always had a hope, though). I am beginning to just trust that I pass when interacting with people without always wondering whether they are reading me, and that is the real kicker- my mindset.
Ever since the results have been in (I would say over the past 2 weeks or so), I have been super relaxed about further surgeries. I had this laundry list that I am now erasing stuff because it is no longer important to me, which feels a-m-a-z-i-n-g. I think that the new voice has a LOT to do with it, because that is what has made the biggest difference in my ability to pass when interacting with people.
I can definitely see why some say that VFS is right up there with SRS.
Anyway, I have been becoming more and more comfortable with the new sound as well as the limited lower range. When I try to say something in a low range (150-160hz) it just sounds silly.. It sounds just like a girl trying to do a low voice :D I've also been humming a few notes here and there and my chest voice range is climbing up and up and up... The lines between chest & falsetto are blurring into something much more female and that gets me SO EXCITED to start singing!!
Well that's about it, just thought I would do a little update for y'all :)
And happy 4th of July for the U.S. readers! :D :icon_dance:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 04, 2013, 02:26:37 PM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 04, 2013, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:01:46 PMI would be interested to know if the surgeons you mention did it sans-incision.They did the incision only for concurrent tracheal shave (thyroid cartilage reduction). The stitch on vocal folds can be applied only from inside, no sense for incision for it. That's two separate surgeries, just performed by the same surgeon during the same general anesthesia.
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:01:46 PMSince they also had trach shaveBecause patients requested it.
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:01:46 PMEverything you say about resonance is true, except I disagree that it is as hard as you make it sound.Most voice therapists also don't understand what resonance is and what it depends on, yours too, as evidenced by you mentioning "size of voice box". Larynx (called also "voice box") size cannot be altered voluntarily. What you managed to learn to change is larynx position and thus vocal tract length (from vocal folds to lips).
And if it is difficult for a person, I feel like any competent voice therapist would be able to show them how with a few productive sessions.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 04, 2013, 02:31:53 PM
Post by: barbie on July 04, 2013, 02:31:53 PM
According to newspaper reports here in S. Korea in 2011, Dr. Kim tried to transfer his technique to some Russian surgeons.
barbie~~
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:35:12 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 04, 2013, 02:26:37 PM
Most voice therapists also don't understand what resonance is and what it depends on, yours too, as evidenced by you mentioning "size of voice box". Larynx (called also "voice box") size cannot be altered voluntarily. What you managed to learn to change is larynx position and thus vocal tract length (from vocal folds to lips).
Well I feel like you're just picking my words apart for some reason, but I'll entertain your critique anyway.
Imagine a trombone, where the diameter of the tube stays the same just like our vocal tract. When the slide moves in and out, the total size of the resonating chamber is modified by changing the length from the vibrating element (the lips touching the mouthpiece) to the exit of the sound vibrations at the horn. In our case, it would be the length from our vocal chords and our mouth. Same concept.
Either way, you are absolutely changing the size of the resonating chamber by modifying the length. And I find it hard to believe that a voice therapist specializing in voice feminization would not know how important resonance is in finding a female voice. That's one of the main points to any voice feminization any way you do it.
Quote from: barbie on July 04, 2013, 02:31:53 PM
According to newspaper reports here in S. Korea in 2011, Dr. Kim tried to transfer his technique to some Russian surgeons.
barbie~~
Well there you have it, it's probably only a matter of time before this procedure hits the rest of the world :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:39:39 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 04, 2013, 02:39:39 PM
Also, the only voice therapy I have done is Kathe Perez' mp3 tutorials. There is an entire chapter dedicated to resonance.
One of the things I found extremely helpful was putting a finger on my adams apple to make sure I am keeping it in the "up" position, slowly letting go of it, and checking it to make sure I hadn't slipped. After a few weeks of practicing this in the car, I had an "ah-ha" moment and it sort of clicked. I've read about many similar experiences with people practicing their feminine voice. At some point, your muscles just "get it" and you honestly have a hard time un-getting it.
One of the things I found extremely helpful was putting a finger on my adams apple to make sure I am keeping it in the "up" position, slowly letting go of it, and checking it to make sure I hadn't slipped. After a few weeks of practicing this in the car, I had an "ah-ha" moment and it sort of clicked. I've read about many similar experiences with people practicing their feminine voice. At some point, your muscles just "get it" and you honestly have a hard time un-getting it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 01:10:59 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 01:10:59 AM
Well I decided to start vocal exercises a day early... But since Korea is also a day early I think I'm gonna be a-ok ;)
I also decided that I would keep track of my progress and recovery stats in a spreadsheet. I figured it might be interesting for those who wonder how my regular speaking voice stacks up compared to when I am reading the rainbow passage in a semi-animated reading tone like the one in my 1 month post op recording. I've noticed a large difference in vocal patterns when reading the passage and when I am talking during normal conversation. I've even heard this mentioned on Kathe Perez' instructional mp3's (reading sounds different from conversing). Eventually I would love to have the two line up in terms of pitch and dynamic capability.
So all in all, I do NOT think that rainbow passage is a very good judge of a voice's actual fundamental frequency. For me, sometimes my natural (actual conversation) speech dips down to the 180's during certain parts of the day when I'm feeling a little worn out from talking a lot. Other times, I am right on the money around 205-210. But really, I hardly ever get any higher than that unless I make a conscious effort to go there. I'm perfectly fine with it though because the average female range is 190-250hz- and a lot of my cis female friends are actually 160-180hz fundamental frequency. Buuut, their resonance is quite a bit different so it just kind of "works" for them. I've been saving working on my resonance any further until I started vocal exercises, but I was already pretty pleased with it to begin with. Some of the exercises also work on resonance, so I may be fine with just that :)
My recovery spreadsheet / doc
http://tinyurl.com/jgvoicerecovery (http://tinyurl.com/jgvoicerecovery)
The recovery curriculum (I will do this twice per day)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIclKX1DTTg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIclKX1DTTg)
And a voice sample from just a moment ago
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JXQYauh779 (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JXQYauh779)
I dunno if you will hear much of a change in my voice through the mic and recording, but I definitely notice a difference in terms of projection and "power" behind my ability to phonate and clearly talk to people without them having to lean in. Also, I haven't started singing yet but I will soon- when I feel like I have more control over my pitch. Starting the vocal exercises tonight showed me how I really do have a ways to go with regaining control over the mid range pitches. But I am not worried about it, even after a few frequency sweeps it is already coming back to me... Gawd it has been such a long time since I have tested my voice like this!! It feels great!!! Like doing vocal pushups :)
I hope you enjoy the voice sample I just made. I decided to just throw something together without really thinking about it. Maybe it will paint a better picture of what my voice normally sounds like.
Much love,
~Jenny
I also decided that I would keep track of my progress and recovery stats in a spreadsheet. I figured it might be interesting for those who wonder how my regular speaking voice stacks up compared to when I am reading the rainbow passage in a semi-animated reading tone like the one in my 1 month post op recording. I've noticed a large difference in vocal patterns when reading the passage and when I am talking during normal conversation. I've even heard this mentioned on Kathe Perez' instructional mp3's (reading sounds different from conversing). Eventually I would love to have the two line up in terms of pitch and dynamic capability.
So all in all, I do NOT think that rainbow passage is a very good judge of a voice's actual fundamental frequency. For me, sometimes my natural (actual conversation) speech dips down to the 180's during certain parts of the day when I'm feeling a little worn out from talking a lot. Other times, I am right on the money around 205-210. But really, I hardly ever get any higher than that unless I make a conscious effort to go there. I'm perfectly fine with it though because the average female range is 190-250hz- and a lot of my cis female friends are actually 160-180hz fundamental frequency. Buuut, their resonance is quite a bit different so it just kind of "works" for them. I've been saving working on my resonance any further until I started vocal exercises, but I was already pretty pleased with it to begin with. Some of the exercises also work on resonance, so I may be fine with just that :)
My recovery spreadsheet / doc
http://tinyurl.com/jgvoicerecovery (http://tinyurl.com/jgvoicerecovery)
The recovery curriculum (I will do this twice per day)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIclKX1DTTg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIclKX1DTTg)
And a voice sample from just a moment ago
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JXQYauh779 (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JXQYauh779)
I dunno if you will hear much of a change in my voice through the mic and recording, but I definitely notice a difference in terms of projection and "power" behind my ability to phonate and clearly talk to people without them having to lean in. Also, I haven't started singing yet but I will soon- when I feel like I have more control over my pitch. Starting the vocal exercises tonight showed me how I really do have a ways to go with regaining control over the mid range pitches. But I am not worried about it, even after a few frequency sweeps it is already coming back to me... Gawd it has been such a long time since I have tested my voice like this!! It feels great!!! Like doing vocal pushups :)
I hope you enjoy the voice sample I just made. I decided to just throw something together without really thinking about it. Maybe it will paint a better picture of what my voice normally sounds like.
Much love,
~Jenny
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 09, 2013, 02:07:00 AM
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 09, 2013, 02:07:00 AM
You sound absolutely fantastic!
And yeah, I can hear that you're still working on regaining control of the pitch, but regardless of that, it sounds 100% female, to the point where I'd have no doubt whatsoever on your gender if I was just listening to it from some random person and trying to determine whether they were male or female on their voice alone.
I can't wait to hear you sing! That's like the #1 thing that I'm curious (and concerned) about with this surgery, since I'm a huge singer myself.
And yeah, I can hear that you're still working on regaining control of the pitch, but regardless of that, it sounds 100% female, to the point where I'd have no doubt whatsoever on your gender if I was just listening to it from some random person and trying to determine whether they were male or female on their voice alone.
I can't wait to hear you sing! That's like the #1 thing that I'm curious (and concerned) about with this surgery, since I'm a huge singer myself.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 02:19:45 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 02:19:45 AM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 09, 2013, 02:07:00 AM
You sound absolutely fantastic!
And yeah, I can hear that you're still working on regaining control of the pitch, but regardless of that, it sounds 100% female, to the point where I'd have no doubt whatsoever on your gender if I was just listening to it from some random person and trying to determine whether they were male or female on their voice alone.
I can't wait to hear you sing! That's like the #1 thing that I'm curious (and concerned) about with this surgery, since I'm a huge singer myself.
(Side note: I'm curious, what software are you using to analyze the pitches?)
Thanks Carrie!! :) I really appreciate the kind and honest words that it does still need work. Even though my voice does pass and it's made me the happiest I've been during the whole transition process out of ANYTHING so far (well besides maybe the acceptance of my mother), it is still a work in progress and I do wish to make it better.
I used to be a huge singer, too... so I am equally excited about that part!
Thanks again!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on July 09, 2013, 05:51:12 AM
Post by: Carlita on July 09, 2013, 05:51:12 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 02:19:45 AM
Thanks Carrie!! :) I really appreciate the kind and honest words that it does still need work. Even though my voice does pass and it's made me the happiest I've been during the whole transition process out of ANYTHING so far (well besides maybe the acceptance of my mother), it is still a work in progress and I do wish to make it better.
I used to be a huge singer, too... so I am equally excited about that part!
Thanks again!
Yeah ... I'm waiting for the singing too! :)
I totally agree with all the compliments about your voice, which just seems to get better by the day. And one thing you said in the recording really hit a chord (no pun intended!) with me ... It was when you said that the surgery helped you relax. that was exactly what the best MTF voice therapist in the UK said to me a few years ago. She'd always been opposed to vocal surgery, thinking it was too risky and the results didn't justify it. But now, she said, she felt much more confident in telling her patients they should consider it as an option. And the main benefit, she said, was that it helped them relax. They weren't having to consciously maintain a feminine voice, or worry about slipping back into a male one. They just spoke in the female range, because that was now their natural range - and the only range they had - so they stopped worrying.
It absolutely confirmed my personal view that the ideal aim for any MTF is not to be able to pass as female. it's to be unable to pass as male.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 11:20:42 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 11:20:42 AM
Quote from: Carlita on July 09, 2013, 05:51:12 AM
They weren't having to consciously maintain a feminine voice, or worry about slipping back into a male one. They just spoke in the female range, because that was now their natural range - and the only range they had - so they stopped worrying.
It absolutely confirmed my personal view that the ideal aim for any MTF is not to be able to pass as female. it's to be unable to pass as male.
Yes yes and yes! That's exactly how I feel and why I did the surgery in the first place. My fear of slipping back into a male range kept me from EVER getting to used my female voice in a public setting even amongst friends (especially amongst friends). I just could not break free. I felt awkward about it and it was a vicious cycle.
Your personal view about being unable to pass as male is dead on, though. That sums it up right there :D I keep thinking that I might be able to pass as male visually, but now with the voice surgery I am fairly certain that it's impossible in any situation where I would actually have to interact with someone. My male voice just isn't there at all anymore, and it never will be.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on July 09, 2013, 12:01:19 PM
Post by: Jamie D on July 09, 2013, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 09, 2013, 01:10:59 AM
And a voice sample from just a moment ago
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JXQYauh779 (http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JXQYauh779)
Jenny - it's just perfect!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 09, 2013, 12:15:41 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 09, 2013, 12:15:41 PM
Ahhhh your voice sounds amazing!!!
I'm so so so happy for you! And thank you for posting such a detailed log of your journey. I'm counting down the days until I have my surgery at Yeson. December can't come soon enough!
I'm so so so happy for you! And thank you for posting such a detailed log of your journey. I'm counting down the days until I have my surgery at Yeson. December can't come soon enough!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 10, 2013, 03:57:22 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 10, 2013, 03:57:22 AM
Ahhhh thank you Jamie and Abby :D
Today was a great day. I sat next to and spoke with a cis female with two toddlers on the plane on the way back to LA for about 30 minutes when for some reason I felt very comfortable around her and decided to tell her that I was trans. Part of me was just curious how well my voice was passing in person. Well, she was completely shocked and had no idea. I dunno why I was so surprised I guess, but being so proximally close to someone does make a difference if you ask me. Anyway I knew by the look on her face that she wasn't just being nice by saying she hadn't noticed. We talked and talked, and it turns out she has a close friend that is MtF, and her brother (who was sitting adjacent the isle) was gay.
Her kids were NUTS. I mean NUTS I tell you. Screaming, nearly kicking me in the face, and just going generally ape. Then she gave them Coca Cola. I was like. WTF lady!! If I wouldn't have had such wonderful conversations with her it would have turned a very pleasurable flight into the most miserable flight possible! Instead of getting mad about the disturbance, I was laughing right along with her. It was great :)
I'm still doing the vocal exercises and already noticing more control- almost immediately. The first few times I did the exercises there was a huge gap in my pitch when doing sweeps low to high or high to low. It's already evening out a lot. Can't wait to be a couple months more along.
Thanks again for the kind words on the most recent recording. I will have my first "sit down and talk" video in the next couple of days. Yeson wants me to do a 2 month post op interview and answer some questions about the surgery in video form. It will be my first time posting a video like that ever! I hope I'm not nervous!
Today was a great day. I sat next to and spoke with a cis female with two toddlers on the plane on the way back to LA for about 30 minutes when for some reason I felt very comfortable around her and decided to tell her that I was trans. Part of me was just curious how well my voice was passing in person. Well, she was completely shocked and had no idea. I dunno why I was so surprised I guess, but being so proximally close to someone does make a difference if you ask me. Anyway I knew by the look on her face that she wasn't just being nice by saying she hadn't noticed. We talked and talked, and it turns out she has a close friend that is MtF, and her brother (who was sitting adjacent the isle) was gay.
Her kids were NUTS. I mean NUTS I tell you. Screaming, nearly kicking me in the face, and just going generally ape. Then she gave them Coca Cola. I was like. WTF lady!! If I wouldn't have had such wonderful conversations with her it would have turned a very pleasurable flight into the most miserable flight possible! Instead of getting mad about the disturbance, I was laughing right along with her. It was great :)
I'm still doing the vocal exercises and already noticing more control- almost immediately. The first few times I did the exercises there was a huge gap in my pitch when doing sweeps low to high or high to low. It's already evening out a lot. Can't wait to be a couple months more along.
Thanks again for the kind words on the most recent recording. I will have my first "sit down and talk" video in the next couple of days. Yeson wants me to do a 2 month post op interview and answer some questions about the surgery in video form. It will be my first time posting a video like that ever! I hope I'm not nervous!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 10, 2013, 05:26:52 AM
Post by: barbie on July 10, 2013, 05:26:52 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 10, 2013, 03:57:22 AM
I hope I'm not nervous!
Indeed. I think you do not need to be nervous on your voice any more. Your voice is not only feminine, but beautiful and your pronunciation is accurate. Maybe you can apply for a radio host woman.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 08:37:15 AM
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 08:37:15 AM
Hi Jennygirl, My name is Ella. I live in London. I had voice feminization surgery at yeson a week after you had yours. I actually saw you and your friend on your last visit to the clinic. I think that was the time I had my operation. May 22. Ive been following your progress here. And amazingly feel the same as you do. Unfortunately, I have not been as detailed as you've been in documenting your progress. I only have my voice recorded on my mobile. Can you please give me the application or software that actually gives frequency/ pitch measurement? I would also like to see how my pitch is doing in terms of numbers. Ive been meeting with my speech therapist here in London who wasn't keen for me to have the operation when I was contemplating on it but now she was convinced that the operation was worth it. I am meeting her every month for post surgery speech therapy. which I believe is really valuable to keep voice control and pitch maintenance. I have yet to email Jessie of Yeson regarding my progress and send her my 2nd month post op voice after July 22.
I'll be looking forward to your reply and really happy that we had this life changing operation.
I'll be looking forward to your reply and really happy that we had this life changing operation.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 11, 2013, 09:18:46 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 11, 2013, 09:18:46 AM
Quote from: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 08:37:15 AMElla, did you speech therapist explain to you how to change resonance?
Ive been meeting with my speech therapist here in London
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on July 11, 2013, 09:48:35 AM
Post by: Kate_H on July 11, 2013, 09:48:35 AM
Hi TamaraElle - dead jealous of both you and Jenny :D Hope to try and get this procedure done SOON. I have a meeting with voice therapy/treatment people in a month or so - I've been trying to get some proper voice help within the NHS (Scotland) for years, and had resigned myself to having to get myself further into debt at some point with a private solution (like everything else I've done - EXCEPT my GRS 3 weeks ago! :D )
Anyway... if you've got an android phone/device - there's a free app called "DaTuner lite" which is a pitch detector. Its a bit basic, but its free, and I've found it to be pretty accurate :)
Kate
Anyway... if you've got an android phone/device - there's a free app called "DaTuner lite" which is a pitch detector. Its a bit basic, but its free, and I've found it to be pretty accurate :)
Kate
Quote from: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 08:37:15 AM
Hi Jennygirl, My name is Ella. I live in London. I had voice feminization surgery at yeson a week after you had yours. I actually saw you and your friend on your last visit to the clinic. I think that was the time I had my operation. May 22. Ive been following your progress here. And amazingly feel the same as you do. Unfortunately, I have not been as detailed as you've been in documenting your progress. I only have my voice recorded on my mobile. Can you please give me the application or software that actually gives frequency/ pitch measurement? I would also like to see how my pitch is doing in terms of numbers. Ive been meeting with my speech therapist here in London who wasn't keen for me to have the operation when I was contemplating on it but now she was convinced that the operation was worth it. I am meeting her every month for post surgery speech therapy. which I believe is really valuable to keep voice control and pitch maintenance. I have yet to email Jessie of Yeson regarding my progress and send her my 2nd month post op voice after July 22.
I'll be looking forward to your reply and really happy that we had this life changing operation.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 09:54:43 AM
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 09:54:43 AM
Hi Lena. Me and my Speech Therapist have been doing exercises both reading and extemporaneous. She emphasizes the importance of tonal variety as opposed to monotonal male voice. For preop, in order to change resonance and increase pitch, the vibration of the voice should be originating from the nose more than the throat which basically masculine and low pitch. As you speak, you have to transpose the vibration to the nose and in turn makes the voice sounds higher and softer resonance.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 09:57:41 AM
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 09:57:41 AM
Quote from: Kate_H on July 11, 2013, 09:48:35 AM
Hi TamaraElle - dead jealous of both you and Jenny :D Hope to try and get this procedure done SOON. I have a meeting with voice therapy/treatment people in a month or so - I've been trying to get some proper voice help within the NHS (Scotland) for years, and had resigned myself to having to get myself further into debt at some point with a private solution (like everything else I've done - EXCEPT my GRS 3 weeks ago! :D )
Anyway... if you've got an android phone/device - there's a free app called "DaTuner lite" which is a pitch detector. Its a bit basic, but its free, and I've found it to be pretty accurate :)
Kate
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 11, 2013, 10:05:43 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 11, 2013, 10:05:43 AM
Quote from: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 09:54:43 AMyou have to transpose the vibration to the noseHow?
I explained how (link above (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139439.msg1175190.html#msg1175190)), but I'm interested what your speech therapist explained to you how to "transpose the vibration to the nose".
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 10:07:50 AM
Post by: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 10:07:50 AM
Hi Kate. Thank you for that info on application. Ill try that.
Regarding Voice Feminization Surgery. I suggest, don't rush. Remember that the operation is not the 100% solution. As my speech therapist emphasizes, operation is 30% and speech therapy is 70%. So it's really important that you attend a number of sessions with a speech therapist before you have the operation. It will strengthen your voice before the operation and you will get more benefit from the surgery as you will increase your pitch already before you have surgery then 3 or 4 more sessions after surgery is good or depends on your need. My speech therapy sessions are free as it's provided by the NHS as you are aware. Im lucky to have availed of this service. So I suggest, invest on good pre op sessions with a good speech therapist. My therapist specializes on transgender voices.
Good luck to you and please be patient.
Regarding Voice Feminization Surgery. I suggest, don't rush. Remember that the operation is not the 100% solution. As my speech therapist emphasizes, operation is 30% and speech therapy is 70%. So it's really important that you attend a number of sessions with a speech therapist before you have the operation. It will strengthen your voice before the operation and you will get more benefit from the surgery as you will increase your pitch already before you have surgery then 3 or 4 more sessions after surgery is good or depends on your need. My speech therapy sessions are free as it's provided by the NHS as you are aware. Im lucky to have availed of this service. So I suggest, invest on good pre op sessions with a good speech therapist. My therapist specializes on transgender voices.
Good luck to you and please be patient.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on July 11, 2013, 10:10:59 AM
Post by: Kate_H on July 11, 2013, 10:10:59 AM
I've been patient for 5 years... now I want to be a patient :D
Kx
Kx
Quote from: TamaraElle on July 11, 2013, 10:07:50 AM
Hi Kate. Thank you for that info on application. Ill try that.
Regarding Voice Feminization Surgery. I suggest, don't rush. Remember that the operation is not the 100% solution. As my speech therapist emphasizes, operation is 30% and speech therapy is 70%. So it's really important that you attend a number of sessions with a speech therapist before you have the operation. It will strengthen your voice before the operation and you will get more benefit from the surgery as you will increase your pitch already before you have surgery then 3 or 4 more sessions after surgery is good or depends on your need. My speech therapy sessions are free as it's provided by the NHS as you are aware. Im lucky to have availed of this service. So I suggest, invest on good pre op sessions with a good speech therapist. My therapist specializes on transgender voices.
Good luck to you and please be patient.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 11:17:07 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 11:17:07 AM
Wow cool it's great to meet another patient! So glad you came here Ella :)
I use a piece of software called "praat" and it is for mac & windows
win: http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_win.html (http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_win.html)
mac: http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_mac.html (http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_mac.html)
It's very helpful! Let me know if you have difficulty using it, I did a short tutorial in a different thread.
I absolutely cannot wait to hear your voice! I am curious, what was your starting fundamental frequency? Mine was 141hz.
Nice to meet you! :D :D
I use a piece of software called "praat" and it is for mac & windows
win: http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_win.html (http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_win.html)
mac: http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_mac.html (http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/download_mac.html)
It's very helpful! Let me know if you have difficulty using it, I did a short tutorial in a different thread.
I absolutely cannot wait to hear your voice! I am curious, what was your starting fundamental frequency? Mine was 141hz.
Nice to meet you! :D :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 12:58:58 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 12:58:58 PM
Also Ella- I am very curious to know how you feel about your upper range- has it changed at all?
I'm going to PM you my email address so we can stay in touch :) I have some questions for you too so shoot me an email.
I'm going to PM you my email address so we can stay in touch :) I have some questions for you too so shoot me an email.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 01:37:35 PM
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 01:37:35 PM
Omg!! Thay is sooo amazing
I can't wait to get mine done...maybe shortly after new year
But not with yeson ...Toby Mayer will do mine
Now that is just as exciting as getting a pretty face from ffs
I can't wait to get mine done...maybe shortly after new year
But not with yeson ...Toby Mayer will do mine
Now that is just as exciting as getting a pretty face from ffs
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 11, 2013, 01:52:11 PM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 11, 2013, 01:52:11 PM
Quote from: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 01:37:35 PMHe doesn't explain what he does.
Toby Mayer will do mine
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 02:50:36 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 02:50:36 PM
I sat in on MaidofOrleans' consult with him about FFS and he brought up his VFS procedure. First of all he said she didn't need it :) Anyway he said that there is about a 50% satisfaction rate. Half looooved it, and half haaated it. Honestly did not seem like that good of odds to me.
There is some info out there on his procedure, what exactly he does. Basically he gains entry to the larynx from an incision over the throat and attaches sutures to the voice box that stretch it- this tensions the vocal cords. He does this under local anesthesia and patients are awake and talking as their voice is being raised. There are definite risks and the outcome is not guaranteed to be permanent because the sutures sometimes come loose.
Christine if I were you I would hold out until a posi okay doc comes along somewhere that learns how to do it Yeson's way. Or maybe you will be part of the group that has a great result? Personally not a risk I would be willing to take. Mayer does seem like a good surgeon though with tons of experience.
There is some info out there on his procedure, what exactly he does. Basically he gains entry to the larynx from an incision over the throat and attaches sutures to the voice box that stretch it- this tensions the vocal cords. He does this under local anesthesia and patients are awake and talking as their voice is being raised. There are definite risks and the outcome is not guaranteed to be permanent because the sutures sometimes come loose.
Christine if I were you I would hold out until a posi okay doc comes along somewhere that learns how to do it Yeson's way. Or maybe you will be part of the group that has a great result? Personally not a risk I would be willing to take. Mayer does seem like a good surgeon though with tons of experience.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on July 11, 2013, 04:59:42 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on July 11, 2013, 04:59:42 PM
I just read through this whole thread, pretty amazing to see the whole process from start to near completion. If I ever get around to transitioning someday, I'll definitely be thinking of having this done. You sound amazing, and I really look forward to hearing how good your voice becomes once you're completely through recovery. Thanks again for sharing this with all of us.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 05:10:26 PM
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 05:10:26 PM
There will never be a posi okay doctor outside of Canada USA Mexico
And Euro in my lifetime ..if ever
We all k ow my viewpoints and will best not to add input
Unless you want me to come over and pull your hair out LOL
Really it's down to the voice doctor who does a total removal of the voice box
And rebuilds it...strange he says other methods not as good
Yeson says other methods not so good...Mayer days he's the best
By the look of it really ..its the same thing between Mayer and yeson
Just differant engineering methods to acheivw same
Effct on vocal cords.. and Mayer claims there is never any
Voice damage with his tchnique...either it improves or it
Doesnt ..and really ..its like less then three pay checks for me ..
As witj any beatification surgery there is always a chance the
Result will not be as good..
And Euro in my lifetime ..if ever
We all k ow my viewpoints and will best not to add input
Unless you want me to come over and pull your hair out LOL
Really it's down to the voice doctor who does a total removal of the voice box
And rebuilds it...strange he says other methods not as good
Yeson says other methods not so good...Mayer days he's the best
By the look of it really ..its the same thing between Mayer and yeson
Just differant engineering methods to acheivw same
Effct on vocal cords.. and Mayer claims there is never any
Voice damage with his tchnique...either it improves or it
Doesnt ..and really ..its like less then three pay checks for me ..
As witj any beatification surgery there is always a chance the
Result will not be as good..
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 11, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
Christine I hope you know I would never say anything to offend anyone on this board! The only reason I mentioned it is because we chatted about it in another thread, I forget which one it was.
Mayers technique is honestly completely different than anything else. But yes you are right I think they are trying to achieve the same thing just with different means. Mayer's technique simply tensions the vocal chords, which does probaly thin them out a little too. Yeson and Dr Thomas actually thin AND shorten the length of the vocal fold, which is quite a bit different than just adding some tension to it. Not saying that Mayer's technique is bad- I am no expert. But it seems to me that the best way to have a natural sounding voice is to physically make the vocal chords as close to female as possible. So that means shortening them.
Just my opinion! Most of my reluctance is based on the way he talked about his own surgery, even he barely trusted it to be permanently successful or successful at all. I think there are probably better (less risky) options that's all I'm saying.
Mayers technique is honestly completely different than anything else. But yes you are right I think they are trying to achieve the same thing just with different means. Mayer's technique simply tensions the vocal chords, which does probaly thin them out a little too. Yeson and Dr Thomas actually thin AND shorten the length of the vocal fold, which is quite a bit different than just adding some tension to it. Not saying that Mayer's technique is bad- I am no expert. But it seems to me that the best way to have a natural sounding voice is to physically make the vocal chords as close to female as possible. So that means shortening them.
Just my opinion! Most of my reluctance is based on the way he talked about his own surgery, even he barely trusted it to be permanently successful or successful at all. I think there are probably better (less risky) options that's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 06:12:27 PM
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 06:12:27 PM
Yes I understand his technique ..I also am in discussion
With James Thomas who's tech apears to me very impressive also
My options aren't limited...if Mayer isn't confident back to
James Thomas
Omg transition isind blowing with the myriad of choices and
Directions one can take
And Jenny I know you wouldn't say anything wrong..
But a lot will jump on the everybody panic wagon and start
Lighting torches for me as last time
Haha
With James Thomas who's tech apears to me very impressive also
My options aren't limited...if Mayer isn't confident back to
James Thomas
Omg transition isind blowing with the myriad of choices and
Directions one can take
And Jenny I know you wouldn't say anything wrong..
But a lot will jump on the everybody panic wagon and start
Lighting torches for me as last time
Haha
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 11, 2013, 07:54:27 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 11, 2013, 07:54:27 PM
Ideally, if Thomas's surgery technique had more consistent healing results, it would be the golden standard since it alters both pitch and resonance, but clearly that does NOT happen. Lots of the "after" samples from that surgery end up sounding extremely raspy, or like there's constantly phlegm in their throats. And that happens with a lot of the more invasive surgery techniques.
So yeah, I agree with Jenny, right now Yeson is probably the best option. I haven't heard a single bad "after" sample from them, just maybe some that it didn't change enough.
So yeah, I agree with Jenny, right now Yeson is probably the best option. I haven't heard a single bad "after" sample from them, just maybe some that it didn't change enough.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
Post by: xchristine on July 11, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
He will laser tune a voice after ....
Since the raspy voice comes from uneven cords .
All than is one is cut to match the other btw...by laser .
Since the raspy voice comes from uneven cords .
All than is one is cut to match the other btw...by laser .
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 12, 2013, 03:06:16 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 12, 2013, 03:06:16 AM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 11, 2013, 07:54:27 PM
Ideally, if Thomas's surgery technique had more consistent healing results, it would be the golden standard since it alters both pitch and resonance, but clearly that does NOT happen. Lots of the "after" samples from that surgery end up sounding extremely raspy, or like there's constantly phlegm in their throats. And that happens with a lot of the more invasive surgery techniques.
So yeah, I agree with Jenny, right now Yeson is probably the best option. I haven't heard a single bad "after" sample from them, just maybe some that it didn't change enough.
You are right... there hasn't been a single raspy voice coming out of Yeson, and that's exactly why I went there. They are the ONLY place bold enough to state "risk free" because they know they can back it up. I have a feeling Dr. Kim's procedure method (or a variation of it) will become the new gold standard once more doctors catch on. That's what I'm hoping you hold tight for, Christine!
I actually had to stop looking at Dr. Thomas' website prior to the surgery because it gave me such horrid pre surgery anxiety. I just visited there again tonight for the first time, and I just want to say I hope nobody decides to go to Dr. Thomas. It's not that I am trying to make myself feel better about my own surgery- I would just hate to see someone have their voice messed up. Chopping up voice boxes and vocal membranes seems like cutting a limb off and expecting it to function perfectly when you stitch it back together. Yes it will work, but it's not ever going to be the same. The body is incredible, but it isn't built to heal perfectly when things are completely severed like that. Noooo way.
Occam's razor: "The simplest solution is often the right one"
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: xchristine on July 12, 2013, 06:29:51 AM
Post by: xchristine on July 12, 2013, 06:29:51 AM
Yea ...I geuss I could wait...if I make a slight effort I can hit
220 consistantly easy . .but I want the resonance also...
And how old is the yeson technique??
And what is it??
220 consistantly easy . .but I want the resonance also...
And how old is the yeson technique??
And what is it??
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 12, 2013, 11:36:06 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 12, 2013, 11:36:06 AM
Quote from: xchristine on July 12, 2013, 06:29:51 AM
Yea ...I geuss I could wait...if I make a slight effort I can hit
220 consistantly easy . .but I want the resonance also...
And how old is the yeson technique??
And what is it??
The procedure has been available since 2003, but it wasn't until 2007 that he presented it in a way that we could really find out about it.
The procedure is called Vocal Fold Shortening and Advancement of the Anterior Commissure. The commissure is the part of the vocal folds at the back that comes together and makes a union. There is a small mucous membrane there as well. To start, they remove the mucous membrane and a small amount of the surrounding tissue (about 3-5mm long). The folds are then tied together with two permanent sutures spaced apart to add strength during recovery. The vocal folds are stretched slightly thinner as they heal together and strengthen. The result is vocal cords that are thinner with a shorter vibrational length, reminiscent of female vocal cords. This is all performed endoscopicly (down the throat) with no neck incision in about an hour and a half.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alaia on July 13, 2013, 10:19:14 PM
Post by: Alaia on July 13, 2013, 10:19:14 PM
OMG, can I just say wow!
Jenny, I just read through the whole thread and I'm amazed with how much your voice has improved. I too had listened to many of the examples on Dr. Thomas' site and while some sounded great, the ones that didn't turned me completely off to the idea of getting VFS. Looking at how well you turned out and with the success rates at Yeson, it has certainly changed my mind!
I am curious though, now that you've had time to recover from surgery and are doing vocal exercises, do you find it easier to reach the upper notes in your range? And can you hit them without sounding too falsetto? Right now I top out around a C5 and can go a bit higher (~680 Hz), but it really strains me when I do and sounds squeaky. It would be awesome if VFS made it easier to hit those high notes and make them sound feminine too.
Eh, maybe just wishful thinking on my part.
Jenny, I just read through the whole thread and I'm amazed with how much your voice has improved. I too had listened to many of the examples on Dr. Thomas' site and while some sounded great, the ones that didn't turned me completely off to the idea of getting VFS. Looking at how well you turned out and with the success rates at Yeson, it has certainly changed my mind!
I am curious though, now that you've had time to recover from surgery and are doing vocal exercises, do you find it easier to reach the upper notes in your range? And can you hit them without sounding too falsetto? Right now I top out around a C5 and can go a bit higher (~680 Hz), but it really strains me when I do and sounds squeaky. It would be awesome if VFS made it easier to hit those high notes and make them sound feminine too.
Eh, maybe just wishful thinking on my part.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 01:08:02 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 01:08:02 AM
Quote from: Alaia on July 13, 2013, 10:19:14 PM
OMG, can I just say wow!
Jenny, I just read through the whole thread and I'm amazed with how much your voice has improved. I too had listened to many of the examples on Dr. Thomas' site and while some sounded great, the ones that didn't turned me completely off to the idea of getting VFS. Looking at how well you turned out and with the success rates at Yeson, it has certainly changed my mind!
I am curious though, now that you've had time to recover from surgery and are doing vocal exercises, do you find it easier to reach the upper notes in your range? And can you hit them without sounding too falsetto? Right now I top out around a C5 and can go a bit higher (~680 Hz), but it really strains me when I do and sounds squeaky. It would be awesome if VFS made it easier to hit those high notes and make them sound feminine too.
Eh, maybe just wishful thinking on my part.
Thanks and I'm glad it helped out :)
I've actually been a little worried about the upper upper range for a while- even before I had the surgery with Yeson I maxed out at C5 (that was the absolute highest noise I could make and very quietly). I forgot to test how high I could go prior to my trach shave with Dr O... but I think it's possible that it slightly limited the very very top range of my voice to a C5 even though I had no noticeable symptoms of voice issues at all.
Anyway currently, I top out at exactly the same point. The very highest pitch I can make is 508hz and that is at super low volume and stretching it. At volume I top out at 465hz - A#4. That isn't bad at all for a normal speaking voice, but no can do on the girly shrieks or squeals yet. That is one thing I have been looking forward to most. Because if I can do that, it means I can sing in a female range, too. So far, no change unfortunately. I just emailed Yeson asking Jessie about it. My guess is she's going to say exactly what I already think - either it's been permanently limited from the tracheal shave or my voice will continue to raise up and up as I do the voice exercises and heal more... I am hoping for the latter!
Hey Ella, what is the highest pitch you can make if you don't mind me asking? I am curious if yours is any higher or if it's changed at all from the surgery.
I just remembered! My grandma did a recording of when I was 10 years old singing soprano in a duet with my Mom. This is the highest my voice ever really was, and it stayed that way until I was nearly in highschool (I was a late bloomer ;))
Also a warning, my grandma's recording device sounds a little distorted so turn the speakers down!
Pie Jesu 1994 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKzAG2KlfKE#)
F5's (~700hz) like it's nothing. I reaallly hope to get that back!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 01:12:39 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 01:12:39 AM
Quote from: Alaia on July 13, 2013, 10:19:14 PMJenny sounds good because she learnt how to change resonance. Did you?
OMG, can I just say wow!
Jenny, I just read through the whole thread and I'm amazed with how much your voice has improved. I too had listened to many of the examples on Dr. Thomas' site and while some sounded great, the ones that didn't turned me completely off to the idea of getting VFS. Looking at how well you turned out and with the success rates at Yeson, it has certainly changed my mind!
Yeson don't explain how to change resonance. They tell to do some exercises, but that isn't what helped Jenny. She learnt how to shorten vocal tract by straining right muscles. Did you? If no then this surgery will not help you to sound female. High-pitched - yes. Female - no. Pitch change is not the one and only measure of success.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 01:16:22 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 01:16:22 AM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 01:12:39 AM
Jenny sounds good because she learnt how to change resonance. Did you?
Yeson don't explain how to change resonance. They tell to do some exercises, but that isn't what helped Jenny. She learnt how to shorten vocal tract by straining right muscles. Did you? If no then this surgery will not help you to sound female. High-pitched - yes. Female - no. Pitch change is not the one and only measure of success.
Thanks Lena :D
And you are right. They do tell you that vocal training is an essential part alongside the surgery. I was aware of that going into it, as well. And yes, I did learn how to change my resonance. Every week I notice I am getting better with it, too, as I learn new ways of expressing my new voice and gaining the real world experience that I missed out on during the entirety of my pre-op voice fem training.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 14, 2013, 02:19:40 AM
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 14, 2013, 02:19:40 AM
Sigh... before my voice changed, I used to be able to make it up all the way to a C6, or 1046.50 hz. I've been wishing that there was a way to restore my soprano voice like forever... and seriously, letting my voice change is one of the biggest regrets that I have in my entire life. (I had this soprano range until I was 15 years old, and then POOF, one day it was gone.) I've been trying to force my voice to be able to make it back up into that range ever since I lost it in the first place. But alas, I don't think that's ever going to happen. In 12 years of trying, I've only managed to get like two notes back. The highest I can make it comfortably now at normal volume is D5, at 587 hz, and I can make it up to the F5 at 698 if I really force it out.
If there really is a way for it to get back up to that range with any surgery, you can count me in. (But I doubt it...)
If there really is a way for it to get back up to that range with any surgery, you can count me in. (But I doubt it...)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 02:54:04 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 02:54:04 AM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 14, 2013, 02:19:40 AM
Sigh... before my voice changed, I used to be able to make it up all the way to a C6, or 1046.50 hz. I've been wishing that there was a way to restore my soprano voice like forever... and seriously, letting my voice change is one of the biggest regrets that I have in my entire life. (I had this soprano range until I was 15 years old, and then POOF, one day it was gone.) I've been trying to force my voice to be able to make it back up into that range ever since I lost it in the first place. But alas, I don't think that's ever going to happen. In 12 years of trying, I've only managed to get like two notes back. The highest I can make it comfortably now at normal volume is D5, at 587 hz, and I can make it up to the F5 at 698 if I really force it out.
If there really is a way for it to get back up to that range with any surgery, you can count me in. (But I doubt it...)
Thanks for posting those statistics on your range Carrie! It's helpful to know. You still have a much higher max range than I currently do! I have my fingers crossed that I get the opposite of that "POOF" effect, but in all reality I am just so darned happy with the results of this surgery that it is all water under the bridge- even currently without the squeaks and squeals and super high soprano notes ;)
My main concern was: does my voice pass? Yes, it does. I went from outing myself every time I had a conversation with someone to effortlessly passing as a female. That, to me, was priceless any way I look at it. The rest is bells and whistles. I am not a professional squealer so I am quite happy where I am already ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: peky on July 14, 2013, 09:42:41 AM
Post by: peky on July 14, 2013, 09:42:41 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 02:54:04 AM
My main concern was: does my voice pass? Yes, it does. I went from outing myself every time I had a conversation with someone to effortlessly passing as a female.
I have tried everything is out there in the internet, I even hired a voice coach...bottom line..nothing worked...and every time I open my mouth I out myself :(
So, Jennygirl, I was a so impressed with your voice change that I will be making an appointment with Dr. Kim as soon as possible. I am not hoping for a change as dramtic as yours but even a small change in my voice would be considered a victory
Thank you for the lead and for sharing your story...xxoo
Peky
BTW...the Pie Jesu is so beautiful on so many accounts...
\
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 09:51:50 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: peky on July 14, 2013, 09:42:41 AMDid you read http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179 (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179) ?
I have tried everything is out there in the internet
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alaia on July 14, 2013, 10:14:31 AM
Post by: Alaia on July 14, 2013, 10:14:31 AM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 01:12:39 AMOk, why do I feel like I'm having my throat jumped down when I only posted to express how impressed I was at Jenny's experience and to ask her a few questions about it?
Jenny sounds good because she learnt how to change resonance. Did you?
Yeson don't explain how to change resonance. They tell to do some exercises, but that isn't what helped Jenny. She learnt how to shorten vocal tract by straining right muscles. Did you? If no then this surgery will not help you to sound female. High-pitched - yes. Female - no. Pitch change is not the one and only measure of success.
But in response, I'm well aware that Jenny has done lots of work to change resonance. I'm also aware that this surgery is intended to modify pitch and not resonance. However, it may have an indirect impact on resonance. Her vocal cords weren't just shortened, they were thinned as well. This may have made some notes that used to only be in her falsetto range available to her modal register. It also may have made it easier to hit some of the higher notes in her modal register without straining too much. Now I'm just starting to learn to develop my female voice, so I'm certainly no expert. But in my own experience I can make my voice sound feminine so long as I'm not straining too much or in falsetto.
So if the surgery can change the point at which one's voice feels strained or when you have to switch to falsetto, which in turn may make it easier to sound feminine, then I'd like to know. That is what I was trying to get at with my questions.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 10:34:01 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: Alaia on July 14, 2013, 10:14:31 AMHer vocal cords weren't just shortened, they were thinned as well.Thickness of vocal folds also affects pitch, not resonance. Resonance depends on VTL - length of vocal tract - the tube from vocal folds to lips. VTL depends on larynx position. Here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/voicets/message/9179) I explained why and how to elevate larynx. It's not about hard work, it's about "getting it". Get it first, use it for few months, then decide whether the surgery is necessary.
BTW, does Yason warn that after this surgery, before next surgeries (if any) you must warn anesthesiologists that you need thin (child's) intubation tube gingerly inserted along posterior pharynx wall?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: Alaia on July 14, 2013, 10:14:31 AM
But in response, I'm well aware that Jenny has done lots of work to change resonance. I'm also aware that this surgery is intended to modify pitch and not resonance. However, it may have an indirect impact on resonance. Her vocal cords weren't just shortened, they were thinned as well. This may have made some notes that used to only be in her falsetto range available to her modal register. It also may have made it easier to hit some of the higher notes in her modal register without straining too much. Now I'm just starting to learn to develop my female voice, so I'm certainly no expert. But in my own experience I can make my voice sound feminine so long as I'm not straining too much or in falsetto.
So if the surgery can change the point at which one's voice feels strained or when you have to switch to falsetto, which in turn may make it easier to sound feminine, then I'd like to know. That is what I was trying to get at with my questions.
Yes absolutely! I did use to strain slightly keeping my voice at anything above 200hz. That has become what is now my natural range which is probably the greatest thing about this surgery.
I definitely have a new modal comfort zone. There is absolutely no strain whatsoever.
As far as the intubation question, no they did not warn me. But if I do have any surgeries I would be VERY adamant about them knowing that I have a smaller opening down there- similar to a female.
And thanks for your post peky- I am glad this thread has helped you! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 11:31:16 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 11:31:16 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 11:17:38 AMNo, not similar to female. Usual women haven't an obstacle attached to anterior (frontal) wall of larynx. Their vocal folds (when relaxed) don't catch the intubation tube. Your anterior parts of vocal folds protrude inside larynx even when relaxed, the photo you posted is of relaxed state. Imagine an anesthesiologist blindly pushing a rigid plastic tube from the top when you are already unconscious.
if I do have any surgeries I would be VERY adamant about them knowing that I have a smaller opening down there- similar to a female.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 12:50:00 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 11:31:16 AM
No, not similar to female. Usual women haven't an obstacle attached to anterior (frontal) wall of larynx. Their vocal folds (when relaxed) don't catch the intubation tube. Your anterior parts of vocal folds protrude inside larynx even when relaxed, the photo you posted is of relaxed state. Imagine an anesthesiologist blindly pushing a rigid plastic tube from the top when you are already unconscious.
Ohhh.. that makes sense. Basically you mean where the surgical area is? The part that they sutured together?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 12:57:24 PM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 14, 2013, 12:57:24 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 12:50:00 PMyou mean where the surgical area is? The part that they sutured together?Yes. It's an unexpected obstacle for an intubation tube. The anesthesiologist must be careful to slide the tube around that obstacle (along the posterior pharynx and larynx wall) instead of blindly pushing the tube down.
Note and explain to each anesthesiologist that on the photo anterior (frontal) end is at the bottom.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alaia on July 14, 2013, 03:05:57 PM
Post by: Alaia on July 14, 2013, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 11:17:38 AMThanks Jenny, that's exactly what I was interested in knowing. Getting something like this done is probably way down the road for me, but I like to consider my options well in advance. In the meantime I'll be focusing on what I can do now like voice training.
Yes absolutely! I did use to strain slightly keeping my voice at anything above 200hz. That has become what is now my natural range which is probably the greatest thing about this surgery.
I definitely have a new modal comfort zone. There is absolutely no strain whatsoever.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on July 14, 2013, 04:20:04 PM
Post by: Jamie D on July 14, 2013, 04:20:04 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 12:50:00 PM
Ohhh.. that makes sense. Basically you mean where the surgical area is? The part that they sutured together?
You could always wear a MedAlert bracelet or necklace. I have one because of my previous heart surgeries and other medical conditions, but if the doctors miss the railroad tracks on my chest, they should not be doctors.
Oh, and Jenny - 1994 - so cute. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 14, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 14, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
Yay I booked my flight and hotel for my surgery! I am having it done on August 13th, less than a month! :)
I'm so excited!
I'm so excited!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 06:39:48 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 14, 2013, 06:39:48 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 14, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
Yay I booked my flight and hotel for my surgery! I am having it done on August 13th, less than a month! :)
I'm so excited!
Wowowow!! Congrats!
I remember the feeling like I was yesterday :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 15, 2013, 02:27:38 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 15, 2013, 02:27:38 AM
I just got a response back from Jessie on the upper range thing.
Dr. Kim said that the max range definitely does move upward (:D yay! :D) but it could take up to a year to finally settle and be fully realized. My normal speaking range has already shifted by about 70-75hz comfortably which has made the largest improvement to my normal speaking voice... that was basically immediate.
It's been 61 days out of 365 for me, so I guess I should have some patience!
Also I definitely notice I talk lower when I am at work trying to speak with a more distinguished professional voice... it goes down into its low register around 180-185hz (still not bad at all for a female range). When my voice feels warmed up though, I have no problem holding 215hz. I find that starting in the mid afternoon is when it starts to creep upward. By the time I get home (or whenever I'm on the phone) it's full val mode ;)
Dr. Kim said that the max range definitely does move upward (:D yay! :D) but it could take up to a year to finally settle and be fully realized. My normal speaking range has already shifted by about 70-75hz comfortably which has made the largest improvement to my normal speaking voice... that was basically immediate.
It's been 61 days out of 365 for me, so I guess I should have some patience!
Also I definitely notice I talk lower when I am at work trying to speak with a more distinguished professional voice... it goes down into its low register around 180-185hz (still not bad at all for a female range). When my voice feels warmed up though, I have no problem holding 215hz. I find that starting in the mid afternoon is when it starts to creep upward. By the time I get home (or whenever I'm on the phone) it's full val mode ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 16, 2013, 04:28:57 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 16, 2013, 04:28:57 AM
I have big news... upper squeak register has been DISCOVERED!
I was testing if the voice exercises had improved my upper range when all of a sudden I slightly relaxed my vocal cords and at the same time kind of tightened up the airway... Up I went to 842hz! Then 920hz! 1086hz! Squeak squeak!
Okay it's not usable at all right now but I am excited to "tame" it!!! One of my cats keeps giving me the "WTF" stare like I'm some kind of weirdo! LOL :laugh:
Haha, I'm getting him every time. He's seriously weirded out. This is great.
I was testing if the voice exercises had improved my upper range when all of a sudden I slightly relaxed my vocal cords and at the same time kind of tightened up the airway... Up I went to 842hz! Then 920hz! 1086hz! Squeak squeak!
Okay it's not usable at all right now but I am excited to "tame" it!!! One of my cats keeps giving me the "WTF" stare like I'm some kind of weirdo! LOL :laugh:
Haha, I'm getting him every time. He's seriously weirded out. This is great.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on July 16, 2013, 07:10:42 AM
Post by: Zoe Snow on July 16, 2013, 07:10:42 AM
That's awesome, and your cat made me laugh.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alaia on July 16, 2013, 12:05:08 PM
Post by: Alaia on July 16, 2013, 12:05:08 PM
That's great news Jenny! Just don't strain yourself... I'd hate to see you hurt yourself after all you've achieved.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 16, 2013, 03:52:52 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 16, 2013, 03:52:52 PM
Quote from: Alaia on July 16, 2013, 12:05:08 PM
That's great news Jenny! Just don't strain yourself... I'd hate to see you hurt yourself after all you've achieved.
As always I'm very careful ;) I really don't sense any kind of strain though, there's barely even any air moving. It's just so good to know it's there!
Very excited to try to work that register into some speech mannerisms. I'm talking to my therapist about good speech feminization specialists in the area- going to start a more vigorous training regimen.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on July 17, 2013, 01:42:48 AM
Post by: kathyp on July 17, 2013, 01:42:48 AM
Well, Jenny I took the plunge as well and am booked for Yeson on September 17.
Your blogging made all the difference for me in my decision. Thanks again!
Are you by any chance residing in SoCal? If so, I would greatly appreciate any Speech Therapists
referrals you may run accross. I must have contacted two dozen SP's and no one has any experiences with voice feminizations.
Kathy
Your blogging made all the difference for me in my decision. Thanks again!
Are you by any chance residing in SoCal? If so, I would greatly appreciate any Speech Therapists
referrals you may run accross. I must have contacted two dozen SP's and no one has any experiences with voice feminizations.
Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 17, 2013, 08:45:44 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 17, 2013, 08:45:44 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 16, 2013, 03:52:52 PMIf you find a speech feminization specialist who knows why and how to elevate larynx, please let me know.
I'm talking to my therapist about good speech feminization specialists in the area
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 17, 2013, 10:56:25 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 17, 2013, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: kathyp on July 17, 2013, 01:42:48 AM
Well, Jenny I took the plunge as well and am booked for Yeson on September 17.
Your blogging made all the difference for me in my decision. Thanks again!
Are you by any chance residing in SoCal? If so, I would greatly appreciate any Speech Therapists
referrals you may run accross. I must have contacted two dozen SP's and no one has any experiences with voice feminizations.
Kathy
Wow that is great! Congratulations Kathy!! :D
You will not be disappointed.
And yes, I live in LA. I'll let you know if I find one.
And Lena- definitely resonance is what I'm specifically looking for.
I'm pretty sure DeepStealth is actually located in Hollywood, so that may be a promising lead. Her voice is incredible, and judging by her videos she is a wonderful teacher.
I just have to get a little more un-busy with work. I've been going crazy with work recently. Making lots of money, but I've hardly any time for anything else. I've been wanting to make my 2 month interview video for Yeson, but I'm just too wiped out by the time I get home. Maybe this weekend!
Congrats again Kathy :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on July 17, 2013, 11:59:10 AM
Post by: Carlita on July 17, 2013, 11:59:10 AM
May I ask you a question, Jenny? Well, probably a series of questions, actually ... ;)
I guess what I'm interested in is how you feel psychologically, now that your male voice isn't available. The normal male voice is kind of the sound of male privilege. it's more dominant than the female, much louder at a lower register, capable of sounding far more aggressive and fearsome. One of the things that female politicians and executives often find really difficult - and unfair - is finding a voice that sounds assertive, without coming across as shrill or screechy. It's much easier for a man to assert himself, dominate a conversation and still be accepted by the other people there.
When a man is under threat, or hyped up for combat his instinct is to roar, to give a show of strength. A woman's is to scream for help. (Obviously, lots of guys get scared and beg for mercy, and some women can sound plenty angry and aggressive when they want to ... but you know what I mean)
So do you feel weaker, or more vulnerable now?
Does your new voice feel feminine, pretty and completely wonderful? (You know I think it sounds great!!)
Or is it a little scary sometimes that you don't have that stronger, deeper, male voice in your locker any more?
I guess what I'm interested in is how you feel psychologically, now that your male voice isn't available. The normal male voice is kind of the sound of male privilege. it's more dominant than the female, much louder at a lower register, capable of sounding far more aggressive and fearsome. One of the things that female politicians and executives often find really difficult - and unfair - is finding a voice that sounds assertive, without coming across as shrill or screechy. It's much easier for a man to assert himself, dominate a conversation and still be accepted by the other people there.
When a man is under threat, or hyped up for combat his instinct is to roar, to give a show of strength. A woman's is to scream for help. (Obviously, lots of guys get scared and beg for mercy, and some women can sound plenty angry and aggressive when they want to ... but you know what I mean)
So do you feel weaker, or more vulnerable now?
Does your new voice feel feminine, pretty and completely wonderful? (You know I think it sounds great!!)
Or is it a little scary sometimes that you don't have that stronger, deeper, male voice in your locker any more?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on July 18, 2013, 04:36:39 AM
Post by: smile_jma on July 18, 2013, 04:36:39 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 14, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
Yay I booked my flight and hotel for my surgery! I am having it done on August 13th, less than a month! :)
I'm so excited!
Be aware...when you're here (Korea...) the weather will be dismal, OMG. Like, 90%+ humidity as well as being hot (90's F/mid 30s C). I don't know where you're coming from, but for some it can be excruciating if you're not used to it. Don't worry, everyone sweats, so there's nothing to hide/worry about. Wear thin clothing, if you can. Your body will thank you.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 18, 2013, 10:21:55 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 18, 2013, 10:21:55 AM
Quote from: Carlita on July 17, 2013, 11:59:10 AM
May I ask you a question, Jenny? Well, probably a series of questions, actually ... ;)
I guess what I'm interested in is how you feel psychologically, now that your male voice isn't available. The normal male voice is kind of the sound of male privilege. it's more dominant than the female, much louder at a lower register, capable of sounding far more aggressive and fearsome. One of the things that female politicians and executives often find really difficult - and unfair - is finding a voice that sounds assertive, without coming across as shrill or screechy. It's much easier for a man to assert himself, dominate a conversation and still be accepted by the other people there.
When a man is under threat, or hyped up for combat his instinct is to roar, to give a show of strength. A woman's is to scream for help. (Obviously, lots of guys get scared and beg for mercy, and some women can sound plenty angry and aggressive when they want to ... but you know what I mean)
So do you feel weaker, or more vulnerable now?
Does your new voice feel feminine, pretty and completely wonderful? (You know I think it sounds great!!)
Or is it a little scary sometimes that you don't have that stronger, deeper, male voice in your locker any more?
Haha, interesting question. I have definitely noticed some differences- that is for sure. These are probably the same things that other girls notice when they start using their feminine voice however they went about finding it.
People definitely pay attention less than they used to when I take issue with something (this one comes down mainly to interactions with friends). I get more of a "yeah you should just deal with it" kind of vibe which has been a little shocking at times and slightly aggravating on one occasion. But most of the time, friends talk to me much more gently than they used to. A lot of people have actually started to apologize when they cuss around me... That one really makes me giggle! And I love to giggle!
It's different at work too. I work in an area of the industry that is 99% males, in fact I have never met another female in my industry that does what I do (I am a freelance 2D/3D animator with a focus on programming to control complex animations in the field of motion graphics for film/broadcast). For example now, I am on a project with about 15 guys. Only a few of them know that I am transgendered because I worked with them before I started transitioning and they recommended me for this job. Regardless if they have told the rest of the team (and I don't think they have, there's no reason - nor do I care) everyone doesn't expect too much out of me which is SUPER NICE because I already expect so much out of myself. This results in them being pleasantly and extremely surprised with what I am able to bring to the table. I feel that ever since I started transitioning (and especially since my voice surgery), my clients have never been happier with me. It almost feels like a night and day difference. It's a little bit sexist, but to me it seems that a lot of people cannot believe that a girl would be so technically minded and it ends up being a good thing for me and women as a whole. Break down those gender barriers!
I built a particle system that "draws" out random circuit boards with streaks of lines and they all pretty much flipped. Not only was it great for the project, their thankfulness has been amazing. The other nice aspect is that before when I would do something like this I would be met with some amount of snickering or hostility- probably from other people feeling threatened or something or like I was trying to assert myself and show someone up. Now as a girl I feel that I am not seen as a threat... so I'm able to just do my job without a worry in the world (and I think I do even better work because of it). Competition in a creative workplace never worked for me, and I will not miss it.
I hope that answers your questions, thanks for asking- that was fun :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 18, 2013, 12:48:31 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 18, 2013, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: smile_jma on July 18, 2013, 04:36:39 AM
Be aware...when you're here (Korea...) the weather will be dismal, OMG. Like, 90%+ humidity as well as being hot (90's F/mid 30s C). I don't know where you're coming from, but for some it can be excruciating if you're not used to it. Don't worry, everyone sweats, so there's nothing to hide/worry about. Wear thin clothing, if you can. Your body will thank you.
Thanks for the advice!
I am very, very used to that kind of weather though. It sounds exactly how it is here in Maryland during the summers. Today it's 97F with humidity bringing the heat index up to 110F. Ughhh.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 19, 2013, 03:47:33 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 19, 2013, 03:47:33 AM
I have an appointment with Joanna Cazden in Burbank. My therapist recommended her and I'm going to give this a shot ... I think it will be worth it on many levels of psyche.
I'm fairly certain that my voice is already passing most of the time, but I feel that having some professional guidance will eventually make it so that I pass confidently ALL the time. At least that is the hope. It certainly can't hurt!
On her page, she mentions some key things I am interested in:
- resonance re shaping inside the throat
- speech activities like shouting and I'm assuming singing too
- adjustments of inflection, word choice, and body language
My first appointment is set for next Saturday, the 27th of July. I could have started this next week but I am too busy with work to make the trip to Burbank on a lunchbreak during the week. I'm very eager to meet her! Judging by the recommendation from my therapist and her webpage she seems very knowledgable.
I'm fairly certain that my voice is already passing most of the time, but I feel that having some professional guidance will eventually make it so that I pass confidently ALL the time. At least that is the hope. It certainly can't hurt!
On her page, she mentions some key things I am interested in:
- resonance re shaping inside the throat
- speech activities like shouting and I'm assuming singing too
- adjustments of inflection, word choice, and body language
My first appointment is set for next Saturday, the 27th of July. I could have started this next week but I am too busy with work to make the trip to Burbank on a lunchbreak during the week. I'm very eager to meet her! Judging by the recommendation from my therapist and her webpage she seems very knowledgable.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on July 19, 2013, 07:54:25 AM
Post by: Carlita on July 19, 2013, 07:54:25 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 18, 2013, 10:21:55 AM
Haha, interesting question. I have definitely noticed some differences- that is for sure. These are probably the same things that other girls notice when they start using their feminine voice however they went about finding it.
People definitely pay attention less than they used to when I take issue with something (this one comes down mainly to interactions with friends). I get more of a "yeah you should just deal with it" kind of vibe which has been a little shocking at times and slightly aggravating on one occasion. But most of the time, friends talk to me much more gently than they used to. A lot of people have actually started to apologize when they cuss around me... That one really makes me giggle! And I love to giggle!
It's different at work too. I work in an area of the industry that is 99% males, in fact I have never met another female in my industry that does what I do (I am a freelance 2D/3D animator with a focus on programming to control complex animations in the field of motion graphics for film/broadcast). For example now, I am on a project with about 15 guys. Only a few of them know that I am transgendered because I worked with them before I started transitioning and they recommended me for this job. Regardless if they have told the rest of the team (and I don't think they have, there's no reason - nor do I care) everyone doesn't expect too much out of me which is SUPER NICE because I already expect so much out of myself. This results in them being pleasantly and extremely surprised with what I am able to bring to the table. I feel that ever since I started transitioning (and especially since my voice surgery), my clients have never been happier with me. It almost feels like a night and day difference. It's a little bit sexist, but to me it seems that a lot of people cannot believe that a girl would be so technically minded and it ends up being a good thing for me and women as a whole. Break down those gender barriers!
I built a particle system that "draws" out random circuit boards with streaks of lines and they all pretty much flipped. Not only was it great for the project, their thankfulness has been amazing. The other nice aspect is that before when I would do something like this I would be met with some amount of snickering or hostility- probably from other people feeling threatened or something or like I was trying to assert myself and show someone up. Now as a girl I feel that I am not seen as a threat... so I'm able to just do my job without a worry in the world (and I think I do even better work because of it). Competition in a creative workplace never worked for me, and I will not miss it.
I hope that answers your questions, thanks for asking- that was fun :)
Thank YOU for replying .. and with such wonderful, positive news.
Who'd have guessed that getting a girly voice would be such a great career move?! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 20, 2013, 04:34:18 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 20, 2013, 04:34:18 AM
Quote from: Carlita on July 19, 2013, 07:54:25 AM
Thank YOU for replying .. and with such wonderful, positive news.
Who'd have guessed that getting a girly voice would be such a great career move?! :)
I think back to when I was presenting female and feeling locked into using a male voice. Whatever it was.. fear, feeling inexperienced, or just a chronic stigma of "stage fright" from early childhood... I am definitely moving past it's burden over my voice. It is a wonderful feeling. This week has been a testament to what this surgery has done for me in terms of my goals since starting transition.
Today I was talking to the art director who I have been working with consistently all day long for 5 days. Well, I had a moderate dose of caffeine today for the first time in 3 months.. and it actually made me TIRED. So much that I couldn't help but yawn during a conversation with him. I apologized and mentioned that I hadn't had caffeine in a while, and he asked why- if I was just trying to avoid it? I told him that I couldn't until now because I'd recently had a surgery, and he asked if I was okay. I said I'd had a voice surgery but my voice had been healthy to start with, and then I told him that it was voice feminization surgery. He looked confused.
I assumed that he had heard from my friend/coworker there (the guy that recommended me) that I was transgendered. Well, apparently he hadn't heard and when I said the words he almost jumped out of his seat. He apparently had no idea I am trans, and I really did believe it. Other than an odd feeling about outing myself, I felt utter elation! He actually congratulated me!
I guess overall I know that I pass with random people every time now, or at least I don't even think about it whatsoever. It's still a little different with people I see every day... I guess because I live and hang out with so many people that have seen me change through this whole process. So, I guess I am used to people knowing and I just assume they do after a while. I felt that I could pass easily on short term, but for some reason I felt that over long term I would do something that would cause me to be read.
The perception I have of myself through other peoples eyes is really starting to change, though. Today made a huge difference for me mentally. Being able to blend while interacting people is bar none the most exciting feeling I have ever felt. It's similar to the feeling I got when I first started to go full time... It's been allowing me to relax, to further explore my identity, and it also just makes me smile a lot.
Today was a really good day. Have a great weekend everyone!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 20, 2013, 08:09:20 AM
Post by: Shantel on July 20, 2013, 08:09:20 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 20, 2013, 04:34:18 AM
The perception I have of myself through other peoples eyes is really starting to change, though. Today made a huge difference for me mentally. Being able to blend while interacting people is bar none the most exciting feeling I have ever felt. It's similar to the feeling I got when I first started to go full time... It's been allowing me to relax, to further explore my identity, and it also just makes me smile a lot.
Today was a really good day. Have a great weekend everyone!
This is how the the realization of personal victory over previous self doubt and fears comes about, it's because you are out and mixing daily with everyday people, getting positive feedback which in turn is making you exude a more positive, self assured persona. It was the voice surgery that made it all the more possible, but aside from that this is the answer for so many of us who shrink away from contact with the everyday world and often remain cloistered in our more "T friendly" environments where no real growth can take place.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 09:45:31 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 09:45:31 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 20, 2013, 04:34:18 AM
I think back to when I was presenting female and feeling locked into using a male voice. Whatever it was.. fear, feeling inexperienced, or just a chronic stigma of "stage fright" from early childhood... I am definitely moving past it's burden over my voice. It is a wonderful feeling. This week has been a testament to what this surgery has done for me in terms of my goals since starting transition.
Today I was talking to the art director who I have been working with consistently all day long for 5 days. Well, I had a moderate dose of caffeine today for the first time in 3 months.. and it actually made me TIRED. So much that I couldn't help but yawn during a conversation with him. I apologized and mentioned that I hadn't had caffeine in a while, and he asked why- if I was just trying to avoid it? I told him that I couldn't until now because I'd recently had a surgery, and he asked if I was okay. I said I'd had a voice surgery but my voice had been healthy to start with, and then I told him that it was voice feminization surgery. He looked confused.
I assumed that he had heard from my friend/coworker there (the guy that recommended me) that I was transgendered. Well, apparently he hadn't heard and when I said the words he almost jumped out of his seat. He apparently had no idea I am trans, and I really did believe it. Other than an odd feeling about outing myself, I felt utter elation! He actually congratulated me!
I guess overall I know that I pass with random people every time now, or at least I don't even think about it whatsoever. It's still a little different with people I see every day... I guess because I live and hang out with so many people that have seen me change through this whole process. So, I guess I am used to people knowing and I just assume they do after a while. I felt that I could pass easily on short term, but for some reason I felt that over long term I would do something that would cause me to be read.
The perception I have of myself through other peoples eyes is really starting to change, though. Today made a huge difference for me mentally. Being able to blend while interacting people is bar none the most exciting feeling I have ever felt. It's similar to the feeling I got when I first started to go full time... It's been allowing me to relax, to further explore my identity, and it also just makes me smile a lot.
Today was a really good day. Have a great weekend everyone!
I am so happy for you Jenny. I can relate so much to your experience with your voice and stage fright and I am so glad you found something that helped you. If I am half as happy as you are with the results at Yeson I will be absolutely thrilled.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 21, 2013, 09:50:40 AM
Post by: Shantel on July 21, 2013, 09:50:40 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 09:45:31 AM
I am so happy for you Jenny. I can relate so much to your experience with your voice and stage fright and I am so glad you found something that helped you. If I am half as happy as you are with the results at Yeson I will be absolutely thrilled.
Hopefully you will share your experiences like Jenny has done!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Antonia J on July 21, 2013, 04:23:41 PM
Post by: Antonia J on July 21, 2013, 04:23:41 PM
Quote from: Shantel on July 21, 2013, 09:50:40 AM
Hopefully you will share your experiences like Jenny has done!
I am thinking the same thing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 04:42:36 PM
I certainly will! I guess I can start a thread for my trip report instead of hijacking this one. I leave August 11th!! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 05:21:09 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 05:21:09 PM
I don't mind either way. I wouldn't consider it hijacking at all.
The original post was more just about Yeson in general and didn't start out as a personal experience report... though it did eventually got to that point ;)
Wow 3 weeks! It's going to fly by! I would recommend nixing alcohol, definitely no over the counter pain meds, obviously no smoking, and start drinking tons of water. And be very careful not to get sick! Maybe take some echinacea goldenseal and/or oil of oregano to fortify your immune system.
The original post was more just about Yeson in general and didn't start out as a personal experience report... though it did eventually got to that point ;)
Wow 3 weeks! It's going to fly by! I would recommend nixing alcohol, definitely no over the counter pain meds, obviously no smoking, and start drinking tons of water. And be very careful not to get sick! Maybe take some echinacea goldenseal and/or oil of oregano to fortify your immune system.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 05:33:34 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 05:33:34 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 05:21:09 PM
I don't mind either way. I wouldn't consider it hijacking at all.
The original post was more just about Yeson in general and didn't start out as a personal experience report... though it did eventually got to that point ;)
Wow 3 weeks! It's going to fly by! I would recommend nixing alcohol, definitely no over the counter pain meds, obviously no smoking, and start drinking tons of water. And be very careful not to get sick! Maybe take some echinacea goldenseal and/or oil of oregano to fortify your immune system.
Thanks for the advice!
I rarely drink and quit smoking cigarettes before HRT. I also quit smoking weed when I scheduled my surgery to make sure that my throat is in the best shape it can be.
Getting sick is really my worst fear at this moment but I will hopefully be ok! I'm actually the healthiest I've ever been in my adult life and have been keeping up on my diet/exercise/vitamins. I've been taking lypospheric vitamin C but I'll look into those other supplements as well.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 05:44:52 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 05:44:52 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 05:33:34 PM
Thanks for the advice!
I rarely drink and quit smoking cigarettes before HRT. I also quit smoking weed when I scheduled my surgery to make sure that my throat is in the best shape it can be.
Getting sick is really my worst fear at this moment but I will hopefully be ok! I'm actually the healthiest I've ever been in my adult life and have been keeping up on my diet/exercise/vitamins. I've been taking lypospheric vitamin C but I'll look into those other supplements as well.
That's super great! And no problem for the advice :)
Can't wait to hear your before / after examples- as I'm sure you can't either!
The wait period before I could really start using my voice was brutal... I wanted to hear it sooo bad!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 05:47:22 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 05:47:22 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 05:44:52 PM'
That's super great! And no problem for the advice :)
Can't wait to hear your before / after examples- as I'm sure you can't either!
The wait period before I could really start using my voice was brutal... I wanted to hear it sooo bad!
I'm sure it was - which just means I'll have to indulge in some retail therapy while I'm there! >:-)
Speaking of which did you spend any time around Gangnam or no because your hotel was in Myeong-dong? Just curious what the shopping is like there.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 07:11:50 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 07:11:50 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 05:47:22 PM
'
I'm sure it was - which just means I'll have to indulge in some retail therapy while I'm there! >:-)
Speaking of which did you spend any time around Gangnam or no because your hotel was in Myeong-dong? Just curious what the shopping is like there.
Yes the shopping is great in Gangnam, too. Myeongdong was a bit more affordable as Gangnam seemed to be focused more on higher end boutique fashion. But there are still places like Forever21 and other chains that are really affordable. I went on a spree there.
Myeongdong was my favorite for clothes shopping, although a bit overwhelming at first. If I go again (and I'm considering going again with Rowan when she goes to Yeson), I have a feeling I will tear it up in Myeongdong!! Still, it was great the first time. It's a lot though... shoulder to shoulder people and shops / restaurants stacked 3 stories tall.
I found Insadong to be absolutely wonderful for shopping as well. Tons of little trinket and jewelry shops along the main strip. I found one woman who makes hand made ceramic necklaces / bracelets / earrings and I fell in love. I had to go back to Insadong to buy 4 more pieces from her... one was not enough! ;) I was so happy when I found her shop again!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 07:17:28 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 07:17:28 PM
Also something else I meant to note...
As an average height MtF shopping in Korea, it was really hard to find clothes that fit properly unless I went to chains that were in America, too. At least for me, a lot of the Korean fashion didn't seem to work at all with my somewhat broad shoulders and slightly taller body. Also, I didn't really even bother looking for shoes. Maybe next time I will look harder for shops that carry larger than a size 9.
I started out being frustrated by it, but then realized that I don't so much prefer the Korean style for myself anyway. It didn't really fit with my fashion formula as well as I thought it would. Maybe round 2 will be better.
As an average height MtF shopping in Korea, it was really hard to find clothes that fit properly unless I went to chains that were in America, too. At least for me, a lot of the Korean fashion didn't seem to work at all with my somewhat broad shoulders and slightly taller body. Also, I didn't really even bother looking for shoes. Maybe next time I will look harder for shops that carry larger than a size 9.
I started out being frustrated by it, but then realized that I don't so much prefer the Korean style for myself anyway. It didn't really fit with my fashion formula as well as I thought it would. Maybe round 2 will be better.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 07:25:29 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 07:25:29 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 07:17:28 PM
Also something else I meant to note...
As an average height MtF shopping in Korea, it was really hard to find clothes that fit properly unless I went to chains that were in America, too. At least for me, a lot of the Korean fashion didn't seem to work at all with my somewhat broad shoulders and slightly taller body. Also, I didn't really even bother looking for shoes. Maybe next time I will look harder for shops that carry larger than a size 9.
I started out being frustrated by it, but then realized that I don't so much prefer the Korean style for myself anyway. It didn't really fit with my fashion formula as well as I thought it would. Maybe round 2 will be better.
I figured, I'm 5'8" and I've been steadily losing weight so don't really want to spend much on clothes to begin with until I'm closer to my goal weight. I mostly planned on shopping for bags and jewelry and definitely all the wonderful korean skincare products out there.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 07:29:49 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 21, 2013, 07:25:29 PM
I figured, I'm 5'8" and I've been steadily losing weight so don't really want to spend much on clothes to begin with until I'm closer to my goal weight. I mostly planned on shopping for bags and jewelry and definitely all the wonderful korean skincare products out there.
Yeah I'm almost exactly the same height so that's a good plan of attack!
You are going to have a lovely shopping experience! Tons of great jewelry. I will warn you though, it does start to look the same sometimes at the street vendor level. That just means it's time to hop on a subway and head to a different part of the city ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on July 22, 2013, 04:53:40 AM
Post by: smile_jma on July 22, 2013, 04:53:40 AM
If you want shoes...Itaewon would be the place to go since that is kind of like "foreign town" and there's a "Gay hill / trans hill" (tons of gay bars/trans bars) there so, some of the shops cater to us.. Not the best, but you should find things that will fit. Gangnam is more for the richer folk, where myeongdong isn't, more for the normal person/tourist. Don't be afraid of underground shopping either.
You'll have NO problem with the Korean makeup here, there are stores like there are starbucks in the US. They're that numerous.
...I'm not sure what else...
What are your plans on getting from the airport to your hotel?
You'll have NO problem with the Korean makeup here, there are stores like there are starbucks in the US. They're that numerous.
...I'm not sure what else...
What are your plans on getting from the airport to your hotel?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 22, 2013, 09:34:00 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 22, 2013, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: smile_jma on July 22, 2013, 04:53:40 AM
If you want shoes...Itaewon would be the place to go since that is kind of like "foreign town" and there's a "Gay hill / trans hill" (tons of gay bars/trans bars) there so, some of the shops cater to us.. Not the best, but you should find things that will fit. Gangnam is more for the richer folk, where myeongdong isn't, more for the normal person/tourist. Don't be afraid of underground shopping either.
You'll have NO problem with the Korean makeup here, there are stores like there are starbucks in the US. They're that numerous.
...I'm not sure what else...
What are your plans on getting from the airport to your hotel?
Well, I would like shoes but I honestly don't think I'll be able to find anything in my size (11 W) while I'm there and it'll just end up making me depressed lol.
And by underground shopping do you mean literally underground like COEX? Are there other places like that?
The surgery center offers a free shuttle to and from the airport, but if my flight is late or something I planned on just taking a bus.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 22, 2013, 10:46:24 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 22, 2013, 10:46:24 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 22, 2013, 09:34:00 AM
The surgery center offers a free shuttle to and from the airport, but if my flight is late or something I planned on just taking a bus.
Ha.. what?! They musta just started offering that.
I took the express train from the airport into Seoul. It was pretty cool- although a private shuttle would have been very nice!
At the very least it was a nice introduction into all of the stares we would be receiving from locals ;)
Apparently it is socially a-ok to stare at people end over end there... So don't feel alarmed if it seems like people are just gazing at you constantly.
smile_jma / barbie- is this true? One of the english speaking friends that we met up with told us about that. We were never quite sure if it was true or not, though.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 22, 2013, 11:29:35 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 22, 2013, 11:29:35 AM
Also I just did my vocal function exercises and I think my pitch is starting to elevate a little... I'm gaining a little on the high end. This morning I was able to hit a Bb4 at volume.
Still feels like a far cry from my goal of F5 which I can only currently get through the "squeak register" ;)
Still feels like a far cry from my goal of F5 which I can only currently get through the "squeak register" ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 22, 2013, 12:57:05 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 22, 2013, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 22, 2013, 10:46:24 AM
Ha.. what?! They musta just started offering that.
I took the express train from the airport into Seoul. It was pretty cool- although a private shuttle would have been very nice!
At the very least it was a nice introduction into all of the stares we would be receiving from locals ;)
Apparently it is socially a-ok to stare at people end over end there... So don't feel alarmed if it seems like people are just gazing at you constantly.
smile_jma / barbie- is this true? One of the english speaking friends that we met up with told us about that. We were never quite sure if it was true or not, though.
Heh yeah the e-mail said:
Additional free service:
※ Airport pick-up & drop off service are available from Monday to Friday if your flight arrival and departure time is between10:00am~05:00pm.
(The service is not provided for 2nd visit. If needed, it's an additional charge.)
※ Seoul city tour 1 time
I'm fine with the stares - everyone I know who's been there has said the same thing. You never felt unsafe or anything there did you? I'm just a little bit nervous since I'll be alone.
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 22, 2013, 11:29:35 AM
Also I just did my vocal function exercises and I think my pitch is starting to elevate a little... I'm gaining a little on the high end. This morning I was able to hit a Bb4 at volume.
Still feels like a far cry from my goal of F5 which I can only currently get through the "squeak register" ;)
If I'm looking that up right that's about 494hz? And is that not in falsetto? Do you remember what you could hit without falsetto prior to the surgery?
Sorry for 21 questions but right now I can hit about 320hz before I have to slip in falsetto and was curious about how far my range might extend.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 22, 2013, 08:56:24 PM
Post by: barbie on July 22, 2013, 08:56:24 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 18, 2013, 12:48:31 PM
Thanks for the advice!
I am very, very used to that kind of weather though. It sounds exactly how it is here in Maryland during the summers. Today it's 97F with humidity bringing the heat index up to 110F. Ughhh.
I once lived in both Maryland and Seoul. I think Seoul is more humid than the most part of Maryland, and above all, the air is not so much clean in Seoul while the air in Mayland and DC is far cleaner. Sweating with dirty air is not so much pleasant to me. A good news is that 110F is too high and rare in Seoul. If it rains, it will be better. There are direct flights from D.C. to Seoul, saving a lot of flight time.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 22, 2013, 09:27:20 PM
Post by: barbie on July 22, 2013, 09:27:20 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 22, 2013, 12:57:05 PM
Heh yeah the e-mail said:
Additional free service:
※ Airport pick-up & drop off service are available from Monday to Friday if your flight arrival and departure time is between10:00am~05:00pm.
(The service is not provided for 2nd visit. If needed, it's an additional charge.)
※ Seoul city tour 1 time
I'm fine with the stares - everyone I know who's been there has said the same thing. You never felt unsafe or anything there did you? I'm just a little bit nervous since I'll be alone.
A lot of people in Seoul may stare at you, because Korea is basically a homogeneous country in its ethnicity. Seoul is better than other cities of Korea, because Seoul people tend to have seen many foreigners. Still, some people, especially aged women, study me when I visit Seoul.
I just returned from Slovenia. A lot of people at the airport watched and stared at me, although I was just wearing a plain black one-piece dress with flat sandals. I am accustomed to it. Even a few men try to speak to me, and mostly I do not understand their language.
Seoul is one of the safest cities in the world, but it is always smart to be cautious in any place. Subway train is the fastest way to reach your hotel, but you may have to change the train two or three times. You have better study a little bit the subway lines of Seoul. There are limousine buses from the airport to the downtown area of Seoul, usually taking more than 1 hour, but you do not need to change to another bus. Both subway train and bus run late at night, and you can take it whenever you arrive at the airport.
If you purchase a prepaid card in convenient stores near the airport, you can use it for both subway trains and public buses, including the limousine. I think a 10,000 won (ca. US$ 9) would be enough for your commuting in Seoul.
The maximum women's shoe size is usually US 9 or 255 mm in Korea (http://www.i18nguy.com/l10n/shoes.html (http://www.i18nguy.com/l10n/shoes.html)). My size is 265 mm, and I usually order online. Two days ago, I tried to purchase high heel sandals at a mall in Ljubljana, Slovenia, but the maximum size was mostly women's 39 (= US 8 1/2 or 251 mm).
And, I do not like shoes and clothes in Korea. They are more expensive, considering the quality and price. Whenever I visit the U.S., I purchase a bunch of clothes at Walmart or Target. The quality and price is far better than most Korean stores. For example, I still wear a pair of athletic leggings I purchased at Target in 2003. The price was just $5. Similar items cost > $200 in Korea, and I am not quite sure how long I will be able to wear them.
For shopping, I think cheap handbags will be fine to be purchased in Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 23, 2013, 01:25:25 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 23, 2013, 01:25:25 AM
That's great info barbie!
It seemed to me and my friend that the fashion rotates so frequently that the clothes aren't really meant to be worn more than a few times. I did most of my clothes shopping at international chains that seemed to have a somewhat selected style. The quality issue with korean made clothing was evident, but there were definite exceptions in certain areas. Regardless, it was all fun to go through ;)
It seemed to me and my friend that the fashion rotates so frequently that the clothes aren't really meant to be worn more than a few times. I did most of my clothes shopping at international chains that seemed to have a somewhat selected style. The quality issue with korean made clothing was evident, but there were definite exceptions in certain areas. Regardless, it was all fun to go through ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 23, 2013, 02:08:27 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 23, 2013, 02:08:27 AM
I just did my voice exercises for the night and I'm definitely noticing a slight difference in upper range :) Every day it becomes a little more noticeable how much easier it is to make the upper noises in regular speech, but having the max range go up is a VERY affirming thing to know about. Versatility is a huge plus for me, and I really hope that my voice continues to shift upward... having a max pitch of under 500hz feels very limiting in terms of versatility. I just have to keep making progress... I.e. last week my max pitch at volume was 460hz with strain and now it is 490hz with no strain. A good improvement if you ask me. I just have to keep going with that!
Also, I feel like a lot of what I'm doing to sound the way I do is mostly mental and from practice. The automatic increased pitch just makes it feel like being on an escalator... I think I am on about floor 3 of 10 when it comes to what I have yet to see/learn/incorporate into everyday interaction.
My goal is F5. I am 7 semitones and ~100hz away.
Also, I feel like a lot of what I'm doing to sound the way I do is mostly mental and from practice. The automatic increased pitch just makes it feel like being on an escalator... I think I am on about floor 3 of 10 when it comes to what I have yet to see/learn/incorporate into everyday interaction.
My goal is F5. I am 7 semitones and ~100hz away.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on July 23, 2013, 02:27:34 AM
Post by: smile_jma on July 23, 2013, 02:27:34 AM
I was going to mention the transportation, but I guess barbie summed it up pretty well.
People stare all the time. I stare back if I feel they're staring too much :) That usually then makes them feel uncomfortable and look away. People stare for different reasons, but for non-Koreans, it's mostly because they're checking out your fashion, style, height, skin, etc., since we are a somewhat homogenous country. When Koreans stare at each other it's because of fashion/hotness/ugliness/acting weird. I guess same as why you'd stare anywhere else, but a lot more common. Growing up in the US, I was taught not to stare, so it is a little weird.
Also, about the subway...On the weekends (Sat/Sun) it stops SOONER than on weekdays. If you go out late at night, just keep that in mind. Instead of 12:45-1am stopping time, they'll stop 11:20~11:50ish (depending where you are).
I don't mind the Korean clothing. The jeans at least, have lasted. Tops are good for about 2 seasons (spring/fall) and then they're done for. If you wear that in summer, too. Say good bye a little sooner.
People stare all the time. I stare back if I feel they're staring too much :) That usually then makes them feel uncomfortable and look away. People stare for different reasons, but for non-Koreans, it's mostly because they're checking out your fashion, style, height, skin, etc., since we are a somewhat homogenous country. When Koreans stare at each other it's because of fashion/hotness/ugliness/acting weird. I guess same as why you'd stare anywhere else, but a lot more common. Growing up in the US, I was taught not to stare, so it is a little weird.
Also, about the subway...On the weekends (Sat/Sun) it stops SOONER than on weekdays. If you go out late at night, just keep that in mind. Instead of 12:45-1am stopping time, they'll stop 11:20~11:50ish (depending where you are).
I don't mind the Korean clothing. The jeans at least, have lasted. Tops are good for about 2 seasons (spring/fall) and then they're done for. If you wear that in summer, too. Say good bye a little sooner.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 23, 2013, 03:58:22 AM
Post by: barbie on July 23, 2013, 03:58:22 AM
Being stared by men is not so good experience. Their eyes flash, seeking some prey, which I had never seen before my crossdressing.
Yesterday, at Istanbul airport, I approached a downward escalator to the gate, and felt a man walking behind me was studying me. He passed me and took the escalator. I well expected that he will turn back to me, and he did. At first, I pretended not to see him, but he was still looking up to me. I was wearing very short one-piece dresses, and he could see my underwear panty from below. I pulled down the dress a little bit by my hands to hide it, and he still saw me. I was a little bit upset, and stared back at him. His eyes met mine, and he seemed embarrassed, eventually turning his head front.
I guessed that this is a kind of every day's life of women in the world.
And I also saw a few women wearing > 5-inch spike heels with hot pants, attracting men's eyes.
barbie~~
Yesterday, at Istanbul airport, I approached a downward escalator to the gate, and felt a man walking behind me was studying me. He passed me and took the escalator. I well expected that he will turn back to me, and he did. At first, I pretended not to see him, but he was still looking up to me. I was wearing very short one-piece dresses, and he could see my underwear panty from below. I pulled down the dress a little bit by my hands to hide it, and he still saw me. I was a little bit upset, and stared back at him. His eyes met mine, and he seemed embarrassed, eventually turning his head front.
I guessed that this is a kind of every day's life of women in the world.
And I also saw a few women wearing > 5-inch spike heels with hot pants, attracting men's eyes.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 23, 2013, 08:22:27 AM
Post by: Shantel on July 23, 2013, 08:22:27 AM
Barbie,
Men are highly excited by visual. Perhaps too he may have been mentally disapproving the short skirt as they are a predominantly Islamic country. But who wouldn't want to stare at those pretty long legs? :D
Men are highly excited by visual. Perhaps too he may have been mentally disapproving the short skirt as they are a predominantly Islamic country. But who wouldn't want to stare at those pretty long legs? :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 23, 2013, 09:18:53 AM
Post by: barbie on July 23, 2013, 09:18:53 AM
Quote from: Shantel on July 23, 2013, 08:22:27 AM
Barbie,
Men are highly excited by visual. Perhaps too he may have been mentally disapproving the short skirt as they are a predominantly Islamic country. But who wouldn't want to stare at those pretty long legs? :D
Out of topic a little bit, but thanks Shan, always.
He was an East Asian guy. He looked stealthy. I was in a kind of dull mode while some other ladies in the airport were wearing fashionable clothes and shoes. I did not want that kind of attention.
Another guy at Ljubljana airport was a kind of kerb crewer. He continued to speak to me in some broken English with some Slovenianish language. He touched my shoulder while getting off the airplane, and stood and chatted loudly in front of me in the shuttle bus in Istanbul airport. Fortunately, he went to different transit line.
I wore the one-piece minidress intentionally, as I had to show my passport on which my sex is clearly labeled as 'Male' and I thought it would be adventurous. Strangely, they attached 'Ms' and 'Mrs' in my passing board and also in hotel reservation, which I had never requested. I guess they did it based on my passport photo.
No problem at all in the airport. Female security officers ransacked me when the buzz sounded. Immigration officers were just busy comparing my face with the passport photo. Flight attendants looked a little bit surprised at my low voice, but they always called me madam.
I changed my clothes to plain short pants in a bathroom at Incheon airport, as my hometown was approaching, and I feared that any of students at my university might recognize me.
Anyway, it was just funnier than wearing plain short pants.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 23, 2013, 09:28:18 AM
Post by: Shantel on July 23, 2013, 09:28:18 AM
Quote from: barbie on July 23, 2013, 09:18:53 AM
Out of topic a little bit, but thanks Shan, always.
He was an East Asian guy. He looked stealthy. I was in a kind of dull mode while some other ladies in the airport were wearing fashionable clothes and shoes. I did not want that kind of attention.
Another guy at Ljubljana airport was a kind of kerb crewer. He continued to speak to me in some broken English with some Slovenianish language. He touched my shoulder while getting off the airplane, and stood and chatted loudly in front of me in the shuttle bus in Istanbul airport. Fortunately, he went to different transit line.
I wore the one-piece minidress intentionally, as I had to show my passport on which my sex is clearly labeled as 'Male' and I thought it would be adventurous. Strangely, they attached 'Ms' and 'Mrs' in my passing board and also in hotel reservation, which I had never requested. I guess they did it based on my passport photo.
No problem at all in the airport. Female security officers ransacked me when the buzz sounded. Immigration officers were just busy comparing my face with the passport photo. Flight attendants looked a little bit surprised at my low voice, but they always called me madam.
I changed my clothes to plain short pants in a bathroom at Incheon airport, as my hometown was approaching, and I feared that any of students at my university might recognize me.
Anyway, it was just funnier than wearing plain short pants.
barbie~~
Hah, yes you are adventurous Barbie! Sorry everyone, we will move back on subject now!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on July 23, 2013, 08:48:21 PM
Post by: smile_jma on July 23, 2013, 08:48:21 PM
I hate getting stared at by guys. I know it comes with the territory, but feels weird and vulnerable.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 23, 2013, 10:10:23 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 23, 2013, 10:10:23 PM
C5 at volume!!!! C#5 quietly = new personal record :D :D
Yes, you could say I am excited.
Yes, you could say I am excited.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on July 23, 2013, 10:47:18 PM
Post by: smile_jma on July 23, 2013, 10:47:18 PM
WOW! Amazing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 23, 2013, 10:59:21 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 23, 2013, 10:59:21 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 23, 2013, 10:10:23 PM
C5 at volume!!!! C#5 quietly = new personal record :D :D
Yes, you could say I am excited.
Wow that's improving like everyday!! Did they say when you can expect to see the full results from the surgery?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 24, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 24, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 23, 2013, 10:59:21 PM
Wow that's improving like everyday!! Did they say when you can expect to see the full results from the surgery?
They said it would be 6 months before full volume and 12 months before the final result
I am enjoying the improvement. There's a difference in my speaking voice too- not just the highest note. I feel a little more free to be expressive upwards. I still feel a little limited in absolute range, but it is getting better. C5 is nowhere near amazing to me. Regular males can sometimes get volume all the way up to A6.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 24, 2013, 06:03:37 AM
Post by: barbie on July 24, 2013, 06:03:37 AM
Jenny,
I think your voice is perfect now.
Last week, I met a teenage girl from the U.S. She was so matured, tall and beautiful. But her voice was so low, making me suspect whether she is m2f. Not. My little daughter also has very low voice, but cute anyway. Usually tall women tend to have lower voice. Compared with these women, your voice is high-pitched, and nobody will suspect anything.
barbie~~
I think your voice is perfect now.
Last week, I met a teenage girl from the U.S. She was so matured, tall and beautiful. But her voice was so low, making me suspect whether she is m2f. Not. My little daughter also has very low voice, but cute anyway. Usually tall women tend to have lower voice. Compared with these women, your voice is high-pitched, and nobody will suspect anything.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 24, 2013, 10:30:48 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 24, 2013, 10:30:48 AM
Quote from: barbie on July 24, 2013, 06:03:37 AM
Jenny,
I think your voice is perfect now.
Last week, I met a teenage girl from the U.S. She was so matured, tall and beautiful. But her voice was so low, making me suspect whether she is m2f. Not. My little daughter also has very low voice, but cute anyway. Usually tall women tend to have lower voice. Compared with these women, your voice is high-pitched, and nobody will suspect anything.
barbie~~
Awww thank you barbie :)
I know at some point I will stop worrying about it, but the limited upper range really does have an effect during normal conversation. I am curious to see if that is something everyone who has this surgery goes through or if it can be related to my own personal voice.
Like I said though, it is already getting better and my upper range is getting higher than it was pre-op. I just passed that threshold- here's to hoping I can blow it out of the water.
Also, my speaking voice is a little bit lower than when I read passages. Soon I'm going to do a 2 month video interview and you will see what I mean. When I read the rainbow passage I consistently get 213hz effortlessly. During normal conversation, I am at around an average of 205hz with occasional dips down to 195hz.
I guess I shouldn't even worry about it, I've noticed the same about taller women with deeper voices.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on July 24, 2013, 10:38:19 AM
Post by: Nicolette on July 24, 2013, 10:38:19 AM
Jenny, do you know which frequency is the point where you break into falsetto? And your C5, is that using your chest or head voice?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 25, 2013, 10:47:28 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 25, 2013, 10:47:28 PM
Nicolette- if I had to guess it would be around F4 not warmed up... Not too much different from my pre op voice.
When I am warmed up, it's almost like falsetto disappears completely. It's kinda cool
Also, I did my two month interview video for Yeson.. I hope you enjoy my youtube debut! Let me know what you think of the video :)
2 month post-op Voice Feminization Surgery interview for Yeson Voice Center (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9iFZI4bTPE#)
When I am warmed up, it's almost like falsetto disappears completely. It's kinda cool
Also, I did my two month interview video for Yeson.. I hope you enjoy my youtube debut! Let me know what you think of the video :)
2 month post-op Voice Feminization Surgery interview for Yeson Voice Center (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9iFZI4bTPE#)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Heather on July 25, 2013, 11:54:24 PM
Post by: Heather on July 25, 2013, 11:54:24 PM
Jenny you sound amazing! Wow that's some voice you got now congrats. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 26, 2013, 12:29:25 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 26, 2013, 12:29:25 AM
Quote from: Heather on July 25, 2013, 11:54:24 PM
Jenny you sound amazing! Wow that's some voice you got now congrats. :)
It's weird I've never put a video of myself online like that... so it's a little scary!
Thanks Heather! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ocean on July 26, 2013, 12:56:50 AM
Post by: ocean on July 26, 2013, 12:56:50 AM
Hi Abbyt89,
I am planing to yeson clinic on this year on December, want to be pair up, sharing accomadation?Pls let me know. thanks
I am planing to yeson clinic on this year on December, want to be pair up, sharing accomadation?Pls let me know. thanks
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MaidofOrleans on July 26, 2013, 01:38:59 AM
Post by: MaidofOrleans on July 26, 2013, 01:38:59 AM
Wow J-girl you're voice is sounding amaaaazing. Super jelly as always ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 26, 2013, 10:49:57 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 26, 2013, 10:49:57 AM
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on July 26, 2013, 01:38:59 AM
Wow J-girl you're voice is sounding amaaaazing. Super jelly as always ;)
Thanks, Maid! :D
In other news, this morning I woke up to a quite wonderful email (to say the least) from Yeson.
Apparently they loved the video, and to show their appreciation they are sending me 20% of my surgery cost back! I can't believe it! Never in a million years did I expect this to happen. I can already tell- today's gonna be a good day!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rowan Rue on July 26, 2013, 11:01:38 AM
Post by: Rowan Rue on July 26, 2013, 11:01:38 AM
holly WOW! that's awesome Jenny! You totally deserve it. You'll be incredibly valuable for their marketing. You convinced me!
Speaking or which, roll on october/november and I will be Korea bound :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jfong on July 26, 2013, 11:21:42 AM
Post by: jfong on July 26, 2013, 11:21:42 AM
That is awesome Jenny. You sounds so good and made me think about Yeson in the future, even though some people say that my regular voice is high enough.. but I don't feel that it's there yet. You sounded even better than some regular cis people that I know.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 26, 2013, 01:28:20 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on July 26, 2013, 01:28:20 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 25, 2013, 10:47:28 PM
Also, I did my two month interview video for Yeson.. I hope you enjoy my youtube debut! Let me know what you think of the video :)
FANTASTIC!!!
Amazing results, and you just look so happy!
I'm so glad this worked out so well for you! (And I'm getting more and more convinced that I'm going to want to pursue this in the future. That prospect of speaking with a female voice completely 100% naturally, of not having to worry about pitch control and whether you pass or not anymore... wow... that must be so amazing!)
So happy for you! Congrats! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 26, 2013, 03:44:02 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 26, 2013, 03:44:02 PM
Jenny you sound amazing and you look so happy!! And that's awesome of Yeson to refund you 20%! You totally deserve it, you alone got at least three other girls to set a date. :)
Unfortunately (well, actually, fortunately for me :p) I moved my surgery date up to August so I'm leaving in a few short weeks. Sorry!!
Quote from: ocean on July 26, 2013, 12:56:50 AM
Hi Abbyt89,
I am planing to yeson clinic on this year on December, want to be pair up, sharing accomadation?Pls let me know. thanks
Unfortunately (well, actually, fortunately for me :p) I moved my surgery date up to August so I'm leaving in a few short weeks. Sorry!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: bullwinklle on July 26, 2013, 08:47:24 PM
Post by: bullwinklle on July 26, 2013, 08:47:24 PM
Jennygirl's voice:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F085%2F444%2F1282786204310.jpg%3F1318992465&hash=851b6acd7dbc08eaea1d15ec0fef7220eebdd720)
Well...maybe those should be coming out of the ears, but whatever. This whole thread has been awesome, Jennygirl.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F085%2F444%2F1282786204310.jpg%3F1318992465&hash=851b6acd7dbc08eaea1d15ec0fef7220eebdd720)
Well...maybe those should be coming out of the ears, but whatever. This whole thread has been awesome, Jennygirl.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 26, 2013, 09:22:50 PM
Post by: barbie on July 26, 2013, 09:22:50 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 26, 2013, 03:44:02 PM
Unfortunately (well, actually, fortunately for me :p) I moved my surgery date up to August so I'm leaving in a few short weeks. Sorry!!
Abby,
You may need to purchase a pre-paid transportation card at any convenience store or any automatic machine like:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc.ask.nate.com%2Fimgs%2Fknsi.php%2F542911%2F1%2F%25ED%2581%25AC%25EA%25B8%25B0%25EB%25B3%2580%25ED%2599%2598_SV300001.JPG&hash=612ed523c59abe005309cc869049ff52bd2b5466)
Please refer to the following site: http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/TR/TR_EN_5_4.jsp (http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/TR/TR_EN_5_4.jsp)
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 26, 2013, 09:44:09 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 26, 2013, 09:44:09 PM
Quote from: barbie on July 26, 2013, 09:22:50 PM
Abby,
You may need to purchase a pre-paid transportation card at any convenience store or any automatic machine like:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc.ask.nate.com%2Fimgs%2Fknsi.php%2F542911%2F1%2F%25ED%2581%25AC%25EA%25B8%25B0%25EB%25B3%2580%25ED%2599%2598_SV300001.JPG&hash=612ed523c59abe005309cc869049ff52bd2b5466)
Please refer to the following site: http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/TR/TR_EN_5_4.jsp (http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/TR/TR_EN_5_4.jsp)
barbie~~
Thanks for the info! One of my friends coincidentally just came back from Seoul and gave me her T-Money card with like 10,000W on it already :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 27, 2013, 10:49:00 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 27, 2013, 10:49:00 AM
Quote from: Rowan Rue on July 26, 2013, 11:01:38 AM
holly WOW! that's awesome Jenny! You totally deserve it. You'll be incredibly valuable for their marketing. You convinced me!
Speaking or which, roll on october/november and I will be Korea bound :)
Thanks Rowan :) I am definitely just excited to help let people know of this surgery- because I do feel that it can help a lot of people blend more easily. Honestly I hope this procedure spreads across the world making it more accessible overall.. which would be great!
Quote from: jfong on July 26, 2013, 11:21:42 AM
That is awesome Jenny. You sounds so good and made me think about Yeson in the future, even though some people say that my regular voice is high enough.. but I don't feel that it's there yet. You sounded even better than some regular cis people that I know.
Thank you jfong! I would say if you've already been able to train your voice and can get your pitch where it should be, this surgery may be excessive for you but it is definitely your call. One thing I did realize about a few weeks ago is that voice is like any other part of the body to me. I always desired to have a voice that passed, but I also desired to have a good voice, too! And hearing from people that it sounds good is wonderful! I feel though that like any other part of my body, it is my duty to keep making it better and constantly trying to improve.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 26, 2013, 01:28:20 PM
FANTASTIC!!!
Amazing results, and you just look so happy!
I'm so glad this worked out so well for you! (And I'm getting more and more convinced that I'm going to want to pursue this in the future. That prospect of speaking with a female voice completely 100% naturally, of not having to worry about pitch control and whether you pass or not anymore... wow... that must be so amazing!)
So happy for you! Congrats! :D
Thank you so much Carrie! I think it's important to note, I still do have to think about a lot when learning how to use my new voice. After all, you can't just go raising the pitch and expect to pass. My biggest fear is giving people the impression that this surgery will take them from start to finish and automatically give them a passing voice. I think there could definitely be some very upset people if that ends up being the case. It still takes work and a big part of my results are due to the time I've logged trying to find my problem areas and fix them.
This afternoon I am seeing Joanna Cazden, a speech therapist in Burbank who offers voice feminization therapy. Very curious to see what problem areas she is able to point out!!!
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 26, 2013, 03:44:02 PM
Jenny you sound amazing and you look so happy!! And that's awesome of Yeson to refund you 20%! You totally deserve it, you alone got at least three other girls to set a date. :)
I was thinking about that the other day, but it did not really dawn on me how many people this could possibly inform. I was and still am way more happy to simply help spread knowledge- but helping Yeson with marketing is neat, too... I really am very thankful for what they've done and this seemed like a small favor and I expected nothing in return.
Quote from: NekoKoNeko on July 26, 2013, 08:47:24 PM
Jennygirl's voice:
...
Well...maybe those should be coming out of the ears, but whatever. This whole thread has been awesome, Jennygirl.
I lol'd when I saw this. Thanks Neko :D
Quote from: barbie on July 26, 2013, 09:22:50 PM
Abby,
You may need to purchase a pre-paid transportation card at any convenience store or any automatic machine like:
Please refer to the following site: http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/TR/TR_EN_5_4.jsp (http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/TR/TR_EN_5_4.jsp)
barbie~~
I found a cute little Hello Kitty pre paid thing in gangnam. I followed the lead of the women there and attached it to my purse.. on the zipper pull actually. It's really nice not having to get something out of your bag to access the train system- especially when you are in a rush or transferring a whole bunch of times!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 27, 2013, 09:30:21 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 27, 2013, 09:30:21 PM
A little update...
I started voice therapy today! I think it went pretty well. She first asked me about the voice surgery and I explained it to her in detail, she said that she was very excited to work with me and tailor this therapy to my needs. Then she asked me what it is that I wanted to work on since my voice was already passing. I explained to her all of the problem areas that I want to correct:
• expressiveness in my voice tends to diminish while around people I've known or after talking for a while
• resonance with louder voice
• weakness in voice / upper pitch range during early part of the day
• singing
She then had me stand up to talk aimlessly about something, and as I talked she felt my jaw, neck, throat, shoulders, back, and ab muscles. She then told me that I hold a lot of tension in my jaw and that I breathe kind of shallow. Apparently it could be from trying to already modify my resonance that I hold my jaw tighter because I am trying to keep my throat and mouth smaller. I wholeheartedly agree with her! Also the shallow breathing can also be attributed to subconscious changes that I have made to sound more feminine.
There is also one really interesting thing she told me about. Apparently one of her friends pursued brain imaging for the sole purpose of relating it to voice studies. One of her findings was that when people hum a low monotone note, there is very little brain activity. When someone sings a low note to a high note, all of the emotional centers of the brain light up. There is a direct correlation between using a larger pitch dynamic and being more emotionally expressive. A likely roadblock for many MtF's is from the social oppressions that males face growing up, since it is common for males to have to subdue or suppress emotions which means monotone voice and never breaking their "cool". Females on the other hand are not usually oppressed in this way, which leads to more emotional expressiveness and larger range of pitch dynamic! I thought that was really interesting and figured I would share :)
One other thing that she mentioned to do with the early day weakness in pitch range.... apparently vocal cords are thinner when you wake up, because they haven't really been warmed up / engorged with blood. It takes a thicker vocal cord to make a higher noise. By the end of the day, blood makes the vocal cords thicker and it is easier to maintain a higher pitch. She said that vocal cords come in all shapes and sizes, and that perhaps I had thin vocal cords to start out with. She thinks that people with thinner vocal cords tend to hit their peak voice sometime in the evening, whereas people with thicker vocal cords are good almost straight out of bed- but feel a little worn out by the end of the day.
The main goal of our therapy right now is to loosen up my jaw and relax my breathing. Really, it is to relax everything. That is going to help with every single one of my problem areas- especially singing, she said. I have been given a secondary set of relaxation / stretching exercises to do alongside of the ones from Yeson, as well as some exercises to further develop proper resonance using a louder voice!
She said that she's really happy to work with me and I'm excited to work with her! I think we will make some good progress together, and I'm looking forward to it!
I started voice therapy today! I think it went pretty well. She first asked me about the voice surgery and I explained it to her in detail, she said that she was very excited to work with me and tailor this therapy to my needs. Then she asked me what it is that I wanted to work on since my voice was already passing. I explained to her all of the problem areas that I want to correct:
• expressiveness in my voice tends to diminish while around people I've known or after talking for a while
• resonance with louder voice
• weakness in voice / upper pitch range during early part of the day
• singing
She then had me stand up to talk aimlessly about something, and as I talked she felt my jaw, neck, throat, shoulders, back, and ab muscles. She then told me that I hold a lot of tension in my jaw and that I breathe kind of shallow. Apparently it could be from trying to already modify my resonance that I hold my jaw tighter because I am trying to keep my throat and mouth smaller. I wholeheartedly agree with her! Also the shallow breathing can also be attributed to subconscious changes that I have made to sound more feminine.
There is also one really interesting thing she told me about. Apparently one of her friends pursued brain imaging for the sole purpose of relating it to voice studies. One of her findings was that when people hum a low monotone note, there is very little brain activity. When someone sings a low note to a high note, all of the emotional centers of the brain light up. There is a direct correlation between using a larger pitch dynamic and being more emotionally expressive. A likely roadblock for many MtF's is from the social oppressions that males face growing up, since it is common for males to have to subdue or suppress emotions which means monotone voice and never breaking their "cool". Females on the other hand are not usually oppressed in this way, which leads to more emotional expressiveness and larger range of pitch dynamic! I thought that was really interesting and figured I would share :)
One other thing that she mentioned to do with the early day weakness in pitch range.... apparently vocal cords are thinner when you wake up, because they haven't really been warmed up / engorged with blood. It takes a thicker vocal cord to make a higher noise. By the end of the day, blood makes the vocal cords thicker and it is easier to maintain a higher pitch. She said that vocal cords come in all shapes and sizes, and that perhaps I had thin vocal cords to start out with. She thinks that people with thinner vocal cords tend to hit their peak voice sometime in the evening, whereas people with thicker vocal cords are good almost straight out of bed- but feel a little worn out by the end of the day.
The main goal of our therapy right now is to loosen up my jaw and relax my breathing. Really, it is to relax everything. That is going to help with every single one of my problem areas- especially singing, she said. I have been given a secondary set of relaxation / stretching exercises to do alongside of the ones from Yeson, as well as some exercises to further develop proper resonance using a louder voice!
She said that she's really happy to work with me and I'm excited to work with her! I think we will make some good progress together, and I'm looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 01:20:40 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 01:20:40 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 27, 2013, 09:30:21 PMI started voice therapyActually, it's the opposite. If vocal folds are "engorged with blood" then their mass increases. More massive vocal folds give lower pitch. The surgeon in Moscow I mentioned in this thread thinned vocal folds (with "Coblator" device) in order to increase pitch besides tying anterior ends of vocal folds together like Yason does.
One other thing that she mentioned to do with the early day weakness in pitch range.... apparently vocal cords are thinner when you wake up, because they haven't really been warmed up / engorged with blood. It takes a thicker vocal cord to make a higher noise. By the end of the day, blood makes the vocal cords thicker and it is easier to maintain a higher pitch.
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 27, 2013, 09:30:21 PMI have been givenPlease describe these exercises. Thanks.
some exercises to further develop proper resonance using a louder voice
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 02:11:58 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 02:11:58 AM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 01:20:40 AM
Actually, it's the opposite. If vocal folds are "engorged with blood" then their mass increases. More massive vocal folds give lower pitch. The surgeon in Moscow I mentioned in this thread thinned vocal folds (with "Coblator" device) in order to increase pitch besides tying anterior ends of vocal folds together like Yason does.
Please describe these exercises. Thanks.
How she described it is that higher pitches require stronger (consequently thicker) vocal cords to make much higher pitches. The example she gave was how old men tend to have softer voices because their vocal chords start to thin with the decline of testosterone in the bloodstream.
It is probable that due to the thinning of the vocal cords during this surgery as well as the limited use of the cords shortly post op, the vocal cords become significantly thinner / weaker and need to be strengthened again just like any other muscle in the body.
The part about blood does make sense to me. A muscle is stronger when it has plenty of blood flow. The vocal muscles I'm pretty sure are no exception.
The relaxation exercises range from opening the jaw all the way and licking the roof of the mouth from front to back... to placing hands across the upper chest providing weight while looking up with jaw open and stretching the tongue up towards the sky. "Sky licks"
She said these would compliment my exercises from Yeson which include lip trill sirens and lip trills on C up to G to name a few!
Hope this answers your questions!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 04:00:01 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 04:00:01 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 02:11:58 AMFrom article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonation) about production of voice:
How she described it is that higher pitches require stronger (consequently thicker) vocal cords to make much higher pitches. The example she gave was how old men tend to have softer voices because their vocal chords start to thin with the decline of testosterone in the bloodstream.
It is probable that due to the thinning of the vocal cords during this surgery as well as the limited use of the cords shortly post op, the vocal cords become significantly thinner / weaker and need to be strengthened again just like any other muscle in the body.
The part about blood does make sense to me. A muscle is stronger when it has plenty of blood flow. The vocal muscles I'm pretty sure are no exception.
| (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flena.kiev.ua%2Fspacer150x1.gif&hash=67ad4b93c0f0ea6d02bce4bcf6b94dcdc9477b92) | Fundamental frequency, the main acoustic cue for the percept pitch, can be varied through a variety of means. Large scale changes are accomplished by increasing the tension in the vocal folds through contraction of the cricothyroid muscle. Smaller changes in tension can be effected by contraction of the thyroarytenoid muscle or changes in the relative position of the thyroid and cricoid cartilages |
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 02:11:58 AMThe relaxation exercises range from opening the jaw all the way and licking the roof of the mouth from front to back... to placing hands across the upper chest providing weight while looking up with jaw open and stretching the tongue up towards the sky. "Sky licks"This is supposed to develop more feminine resonance?
Can she explain why and how to elevate larynx?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 04:37:15 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 04:37:15 AM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 04:00:01 AM
From article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonation) about production of voice:The unscientific phrase "vocal cords" or "vocal chords" is used colloquially for vocal folds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_folds). There are a ligament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_ligament) and a muscle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocalis_muscle) inside each vocal fold. The muscle is called "vocalis muscle" or "thyroarytenoid muscle". But the vocalis muscle relaxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocalis_muscle#Actions) the vocal ligament (inside vocal fold) when strained! The muscle which increases pitch (by making vocal folds more taut) when strained is the cricothyroid muscle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricothyroid_muscle%5B/url) - it's not inside vocal folds, but between thyroid cartilage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid_cartilage) (the large cartilage which has Adam's apple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laryngeal_prominence) on the outside and anterior ends of vocal folds attached on the inside) and cricoid cartilage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricoid_cartilage) (a ring between thyroid cartilage and the trachea tube below from lungs).
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flena.kiev.ua%2Fspacer150x1.gif&hash=67ad4b93c0f0ea6d02bce4bcf6b94dcdc9477b92) Fundamental frequency, the main acoustic cue for the percept pitch, can be varied through a variety of means. Large scale changes are accomplished by increasing the tension in the vocal folds through contraction of the cricothyroid muscle. Smaller changes in tension can be effected by contraction of the thyroarytenoid muscle or changes in the relative position of the thyroid and cricoid cartilages
This is supposed to develop more feminine resonance?
Can she explain why and how to elevate larynx?
Interesting info. I remember reading something about the biology of those muscles quite some time ago.
The exercises I went over are to alleviate the tension I have in my jaw, which also affects resonance- yes.
There is a second set of exercises though that go through a series of M and N sounding words that focus the vibration sensation behind the teeth or in the nose... up and out of the chest. She didn't talk about raising the larynx with me this time, but I've seen it mentioned as part of her methodology when helping trans patients- so I'm assuming she's keen on the topic. Definitely something to ask her about next time!
Did I pass the exam, master? :laugh: I can't help but feel like you are testing me. But that's okay. I can hang!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 05:01:21 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 28, 2013, 05:01:21 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 04:37:15 AMI can't help but feel like you are testing me.If a therapist feeds you some baloney, I try to explain. My goal is to explain to everybody who reads this thread: voice physics, what the resonance is, why it's so important and how to change it. Surgery at Yeson doesn't change resonance.
But I got the impression that even you didn't read the explanation I linked above in this thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139439.msg1175190.html#msg1175190).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 06:04:03 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 06:04:03 AM
Oh, sorry! I don't have a yahoo groups account so yeah. If you quote it here, I'm sure many more (myself included) will see it and would be happy to read it! Resonance is definitely relevant to this thread. I've actually understood the principles behind larynx position as it relates to voice feminization for a while, so I thought your link was more for people who needed to know more about it.
I did not get the impression that the voice therapist I saw today was feeding me baloney at all. Perhaps I did not do a good enough job with the interpretation of what she said. I do feel a little struck down that you think I would accept someone feeding me baloney. I am after all a vegetarian... I watch out for that sorta stuff ;)
I did not get the impression that the voice therapist I saw today was feeding me baloney at all. Perhaps I did not do a good enough job with the interpretation of what she said. I do feel a little struck down that you think I would accept someone feeding me baloney. I am after all a vegetarian... I watch out for that sorta stuff ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on July 29, 2013, 03:59:35 AM
Post by: kathyp on July 29, 2013, 03:59:35 AM
Hi Jenny
I saw Joanne the same day you did, my appointment was at 12:30 (I don't use my real name on this site) am really grateful to have found her before I head off to Yeson. She has me focusing on resonance and ignoring the pitch assuming surgery will fix that part. I'll probably see her 3 or 4 times before I go and more after surgery.
Thanks again for the referral and congrats on the lucrative refund,
Cara
I saw Joanne the same day you did, my appointment was at 12:30 (I don't use my real name on this site) am really grateful to have found her before I head off to Yeson. She has me focusing on resonance and ignoring the pitch assuming surgery will fix that part. I'll probably see her 3 or 4 times before I go and more after surgery.
Thanks again for the referral and congrats on the lucrative refund,
Cara
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on July 29, 2013, 05:31:28 AM
Post by: Carlita on July 29, 2013, 05:31:28 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 26, 2013, 10:49:57 AM
In other news, this morning I woke up to a quite wonderful email (to say the least) from Yeson.
Apparently they loved the video, and to show their appreciation they are sending me 20% of my surgery cost back! I can't believe it! Never in a million years did I expect this to happen. I can already tell- today's gonna be a good day!!
You totally deserve AT LEAST a 20% refund. I can't believe that any girl who sees your video isn't going to think: 'I HAVE TO GO TO YESON NOW!!!!' :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 29, 2013, 09:52:55 AM
Post by: Shantel on July 29, 2013, 09:52:55 AM
Quote from: Carlita on July 29, 2013, 05:31:28 AM
You totally deserve AT LEAST a 20% refund. I can't believe that any girl who sees your video isn't going to think: 'I HAVE TO GO TO YESON NOW!!!!' :)
She's Yeson's best outside sales rep and poster girl for voice feminization surgery, she should get a commission!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 29, 2013, 10:56:17 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 29, 2013, 10:56:17 AM
Quote from: kathyp on July 29, 2013, 03:59:35 AM
Hi Jenny
I saw Joanne the same day you did, my appointment was at 12:30 (I don't use my real name on this site) am really grateful to have found her before I head off to Yeson. She has me focusing on resonance and ignoring the pitch assuming surgery will fix that part. I'll probably see her 3 or 4 times before I go and more after surgery.
Thanks again for the referral and congrats on the lucrative refund,
Cara
Hey neat! I just barely missed you, then :) My appointment was at 2.
Shantel & Carlita-
You guys crack me up. I definitely would not want to be a poster girl or sales rep- it doesn't really suit my personality. I have just been sharing my experience simply because there aren't a lot of people doing it for this specific surgery... and I know how helpful it would have been going into it!
I think a lot of people will want to go there no matter what once learning about it. The list of benefits as compared to other voice feminization surgeries is likely extensive enough to convince about anyone that they should consider.
Dr. Kim deserves every penny he makes... He is a wonderfully caring and detailed surgeon with the most developed procedure and highest amount of skill / experience to pull it off. He has NEVER had a case of someone losing their voice, and only once did he have to re-operate on someone because they yelled too quickly during the recovery period.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on July 29, 2013, 11:35:29 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on July 29, 2013, 11:35:29 AM
Hey Jenny sorry if you've mentioned this somewhere and I just missed it, but how are things like laughs and coughs? Do you have to focus on them to sound feminine?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on July 29, 2013, 04:54:38 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on July 29, 2013, 04:54:38 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on July 29, 2013, 11:35:29 AM
Hey Jenny sorry if you've mentioned this somewhere and I just missed it, but how are things like laughs and coughs? Do you have to focus on them to sound feminine?
It's okay! No I don't think I have addressed it.
Yes I have had to focus on it slightly, but not having that low register makes it pretty easy.
Needless to say, my laugh sounds very different. I had to learn how to laugh and giggle differently within the new higher range. It was fun though. And while I am still working a little bit on the hearty laugh, I have the giggle down ;)
As far as coughing, it does sound different, too. I didn't have to think about that one at all.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 30, 2013, 01:38:52 PM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on July 30, 2013, 01:38:52 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 28, 2013, 06:04:03 AMI don't have a yahoo groups account so yeah. If you quote it here, I'm sure many more (myself included) will see it and would be happy to read it! Resonance is definitely relevant to this thread.I made a webpage with explanation how to change resonance: http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/ (http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/). Surgery at Yeson changes pitch but doesn't change resonance. Change of pitch only is not enough for voice to become female.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: JillSter on July 31, 2013, 03:48:50 AM
Post by: JillSter on July 31, 2013, 03:48:50 AM
Jenny, tbh this thread is half the reason I joined the forum. I wanted to thank you for the info and updates.
Knowing about Yeson has made me so much more confidant. I worry a LOT about my voice. I haven't started transitioning yet, but when I do I'll be a lot more confidant because I know this is on the horizon. I'll still do voice training though. :) Gotta cover all your bases, right?
Thank you!
And btw, you're adorable! ;)
Knowing about Yeson has made me so much more confidant. I worry a LOT about my voice. I haven't started transitioning yet, but when I do I'll be a lot more confidant because I know this is on the horizon. I'll still do voice training though. :) Gotta cover all your bases, right?
Thank you!
And btw, you're adorable! ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 01, 2013, 01:48:17 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 01, 2013, 01:48:17 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on July 29, 2013, 04:54:38 PM
It's okay! No I don't think I have addressed it.
Yes I have had to focus on it slightly, but not having that low register makes it pretty easy.
Needless to say, my laugh sounds very different. I had to learn how to laugh and giggle differently within the new higher range. It was fun though. And while I am still working a little bit on the hearty laugh, I have the giggle down ;)
As far as coughing, it does sound different, too. I didn't have to think about that one at all.
Yay that's awesome! I'm sure learning how to laugh again must have been pretty neat. I can't wait until i can get my giggle down!! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 02, 2013, 11:06:41 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 02, 2013, 11:06:41 AM
Lena- that's a great page! Yeah I don't think most voice therapists would go into that depth of info. You are probably right surmising that they just teach exercises. Knowing about pulling the larynx back, too, is helpful to me. Thanks for linking it here :) That is a REALLY good read!
Jillian- I think that kind of confidence is absolutely key when planning transition. When I started, I was fairly confident I could get my voice with practice alone. Well, I was half right. I could use my voice in private, but I had absolutely no ability to transfer it into public conversation.
And thanks for your kind words, too :)
Abby- yeah I am still figuring it out little by little, and it is exciting because about every week I notice an increase in the kinds of sounds I am able to make. I am also becoming more confident making louder noises, which I think is slowly strengthening my vocal cords back closer to what they were before. My voice is still kinda soft, but it's gotten so much better even this past week!
And a little update about my recovery progress... I hit a D5 yesterday in the car on the way home from work :D :D That is a personal record for me. Before when I would try to hit a high note, my voice would get up to about a Bb4 and crack down to a F#4 as I continued to add more tension.. Now it's starting to feel stronger and I am able to extend my range upwards. Honestly it feels like I might be able to go much higher once I regain strength.
Also another interesting thing... My low range (135-150hz) is really starting to click to me as LOW. I am continually amazed at the lack of lower range that I have and I don't even think about it now. Even just thinking about those pitches doesn't register anymore. I have no idea what my voice used to sound like from inside my head.
The stretching exercises my speech therapist gave me seem to be working. I'm able to warm up my voice sufficiently on the way to work. I do the stretches right in the middle of Yeson's voice functionality exercises and I no longer feel any strain after completing the exercises. By the time I get to work, I have almost full range capabilities whereas before I usually felt much more limited. So, yay :)
I'm going to do another video update kinda soon here. The response I've received from the videos I have up on youtube is kind of shocking to me and I think I will try to roll with it.
Happy Friday everyone :D
Jillian- I think that kind of confidence is absolutely key when planning transition. When I started, I was fairly confident I could get my voice with practice alone. Well, I was half right. I could use my voice in private, but I had absolutely no ability to transfer it into public conversation.
And thanks for your kind words, too :)
Abby- yeah I am still figuring it out little by little, and it is exciting because about every week I notice an increase in the kinds of sounds I am able to make. I am also becoming more confident making louder noises, which I think is slowly strengthening my vocal cords back closer to what they were before. My voice is still kinda soft, but it's gotten so much better even this past week!
And a little update about my recovery progress... I hit a D5 yesterday in the car on the way home from work :D :D That is a personal record for me. Before when I would try to hit a high note, my voice would get up to about a Bb4 and crack down to a F#4 as I continued to add more tension.. Now it's starting to feel stronger and I am able to extend my range upwards. Honestly it feels like I might be able to go much higher once I regain strength.
Also another interesting thing... My low range (135-150hz) is really starting to click to me as LOW. I am continually amazed at the lack of lower range that I have and I don't even think about it now. Even just thinking about those pitches doesn't register anymore. I have no idea what my voice used to sound like from inside my head.
The stretching exercises my speech therapist gave me seem to be working. I'm able to warm up my voice sufficiently on the way to work. I do the stretches right in the middle of Yeson's voice functionality exercises and I no longer feel any strain after completing the exercises. By the time I get to work, I have almost full range capabilities whereas before I usually felt much more limited. So, yay :)
I'm going to do another video update kinda soon here. The response I've received from the videos I have up on youtube is kind of shocking to me and I think I will try to roll with it.
Happy Friday everyone :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on August 03, 2013, 12:35:51 PM
Post by: Jamie D on August 03, 2013, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on July 30, 2013, 01:38:52 PM
I made a webpage with explanation how to change resonance: http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/ (http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/). Surgery at Yeson changes pitch but doesn't change resonance. Change of pitch only is not enough for voice to become female.
Thank you for posting the link Lena! :D
I love great explanatory graphics - it helps me visualize the issues.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 05, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 05, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
A teensy update!
I hit E5 660hz sustained!!! C5 is now a piece of cake :D
I think I will be raising my goal of F5 very shortly!
I hit E5 660hz sustained!!! C5 is now a piece of cake :D
I think I will be raising my goal of F5 very shortly!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 05, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Post by: Shantel on August 05, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 05, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
A teensy update!
I hit E5 660hz sustained!!! C5 is now a piece of cake :D
I think I will be raising my goal of F5 very shortly!
:eusa_clap:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 10, 2013, 04:15:14 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 10, 2013, 04:15:14 PM
Well, I just came back from vacation and just finished packing again for Seoul!
My flight leaves tomorrow from DC, I'm so excited!
Thank you so much Jenny and everyone else in this thread who has helped me plan for this trip :) I will be sure to keep everyone updated while I am there!
My flight leaves tomorrow from DC, I'm so excited!
Thank you so much Jenny and everyone else in this thread who has helped me plan for this trip :) I will be sure to keep everyone updated while I am there!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on August 10, 2013, 04:20:29 PM
Post by: Jamie D on August 10, 2013, 04:20:29 PM
Have a great trip Abby!! Watch out for "gaebul" (also known as "penis worms" - a delicacy when eaten raw).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 10, 2013, 06:38:32 PM
Post by: Shantel on August 10, 2013, 06:38:32 PM
Gross!
[/b]
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on August 10, 2013, 08:58:35 PM
Post by: barbie on August 10, 2013, 08:58:35 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 10, 2013, 04:15:14 PM
Well, I just came back from vacation and just finished packing again for Seoul!
My flight leaves tomorrow from DC, I'm so excited!
Thank you so much Jenny and everyone else in this thread who has helped me plan for this trip :) I will be sure to keep everyone updated while I am there!
Everyday newspaper and TV report the temperatures are record high nationwide here in Korea. The strong North Pacific high pressure continues to dominate, and no chance of any tropical cyclone (typhoon) within 2 weeks. In my hometown, we had not seen any significant rain during the past 40 days, a record. Temperature in Seoul reaches > 33 degree Celcius (92 F) everyday, but there have been some showers, better than my home town.
Be ready for a hottest summer.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 11, 2013, 04:29:05 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 11, 2013, 04:29:05 AM
Soooo excited for you Abby!!!
Yeah Jamie is right: watch out for those larvae or whatever they are. The smell is unmistakable though (in a really gross way) so I'm pretty sure you'll naturally steer clear :o eww gross smell!
Ahhh you're going to be so happy with your voice! I was happy with mine the second I was able to hear it for the first time, but over the past 2 months it's gained an entirely different tonal quality. Since the top range is starting to extend, it's giving me all sorts of upward mobility with inflection and dynamics of pitch. It's becoming really fun to talk and I find that my conversational pitch range is pretty much right on par with most of the cis women around me. Sometimes I really surprise myself with how girly I sound ;D I try to remember those moments and learn from them.
And a few words on recovering... pre-op, the absolute highest pitch I could make was ~520hz. 1-2 months post op I was down to ~440hz and a little worried about it. Now at 3 months post op I am getting ~660hz and it becomes easier every day. At the same time, I feel more free to be myself. I can't describe in words how happy I am that my upper range is "shifting" like they said it would.
Another example about recovery... 1.5 months ago, I had an appointment with my endo. He made no mention of my voice, but I did let him know I had a voice surgery. Well yesterday, I had a follow up. He had forgotten I had voice surgery and asked "what on earth" I had done- he was blown away! He wanted all the information about Yeson so he could recommend it to his other patients. Recovery really does take a while, but you'll get there!
Are you excited to be mute for a week? Ha ha ha ;)
Yeah Jamie is right: watch out for those larvae or whatever they are. The smell is unmistakable though (in a really gross way) so I'm pretty sure you'll naturally steer clear :o eww gross smell!
Ahhh you're going to be so happy with your voice! I was happy with mine the second I was able to hear it for the first time, but over the past 2 months it's gained an entirely different tonal quality. Since the top range is starting to extend, it's giving me all sorts of upward mobility with inflection and dynamics of pitch. It's becoming really fun to talk and I find that my conversational pitch range is pretty much right on par with most of the cis women around me. Sometimes I really surprise myself with how girly I sound ;D I try to remember those moments and learn from them.
And a few words on recovering... pre-op, the absolute highest pitch I could make was ~520hz. 1-2 months post op I was down to ~440hz and a little worried about it. Now at 3 months post op I am getting ~660hz and it becomes easier every day. At the same time, I feel more free to be myself. I can't describe in words how happy I am that my upper range is "shifting" like they said it would.
Another example about recovery... 1.5 months ago, I had an appointment with my endo. He made no mention of my voice, but I did let him know I had a voice surgery. Well yesterday, I had a follow up. He had forgotten I had voice surgery and asked "what on earth" I had done- he was blown away! He wanted all the information about Yeson so he could recommend it to his other patients. Recovery really does take a while, but you'll get there!
Are you excited to be mute for a week? Ha ha ha ;)
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jfong on August 11, 2013, 08:31:51 AM
Post by: jfong on August 11, 2013, 08:31:51 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 11, 2013, 04:29:05 AM
Soooo excited for you Abby!!!
Yeah Jamie is right: watch out for those larvae or whatever they are. The smell is unmistakable though (in a really gross way) so I'm pretty sure you'll naturally steer clear :o eww gross smell!
Good luck Abby...
Btw those larvae is called Beondegi (번데기) and it's different from Gaebul (개불) which is some sort of seafood. But I do agree it smelled bad...I tried them once and they didn't taste any better than they smell (and I am pretty adventurous with what I'm eating)...
I would love to try Gaebul next time I'm in Korea though haha...
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on August 12, 2013, 02:50:45 AM
Post by: barbie on August 12, 2013, 02:50:45 AM
Quote from: jfong on August 11, 2013, 08:31:51 AM
Good luck Abby...
Btw those larvae is called Beondegi (번데기) and it's different from Gaebul (개불) which is some sort of seafood. But I do agree it smelled bad...I tried them once and they didn't taste any better than they smell (and I am pretty adventurous with what I'm eating)...
I would love to try Gaebul next time I'm in Korea though haha...
Some people will not like the texture of Gaebul. I have observed that most of people from Seoul do not eat Gaebul, they just can eat sashimi of teleost fish like flounder or plaice. If you can eat live oyster, then you may try Gaegul.
Beondegi is the larva of silkworm. In Korea, there were once so many mulberry trees around the country to produce silk during the 1970s. Beondegi became popular in that time, and without any prejudice, it tastes good.
You may also try dog meat. Many people from France actually ask us to guide to a restaurant for dog meat.
However, keep in mind that traditional Korean dishes are basically vegetarian. You may find some nice restaurants for veggies, too. Usually they are based on buddists' meals. As Jenny said, bibimbab is always nice for foreigners. If you are a veggie, then you can remove just the meat before eating bibimbab: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibimbap. Korean air line always serves bibimbab.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 12, 2013, 06:10:53 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 12, 2013, 06:10:53 AM
Thanks for all the information about the food! I'll be honest I'm curious about dog meat but I don't think I could mentally do it.
I did try the bibimbap today on the airplane - I must say Korean Air is fantastic and this was by far the most pleasant (well, as pleasant as a 14 hour flight can be) flight I have ever taken.
Anyway I made it to my hotel, Jacquelynn from Yeson met me right outside of immigration and had a car waiting for me. It was so nice! She took me right to my hotel and even helped me check in!
Tomorrow I have my check-up and if all goes well I will have the surgery Wednesday morning.
I seriously can't believe it's here already, I feel like I'm dreaming! :)
I did try the bibimbap today on the airplane - I must say Korean Air is fantastic and this was by far the most pleasant (well, as pleasant as a 14 hour flight can be) flight I have ever taken.
Anyway I made it to my hotel, Jacquelynn from Yeson met me right outside of immigration and had a car waiting for me. It was so nice! She took me right to my hotel and even helped me check in!
Tomorrow I have my check-up and if all goes well I will have the surgery Wednesday morning.
I seriously can't believe it's here already, I feel like I'm dreaming! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 12, 2013, 07:49:01 AM
Post by: Shantel on August 12, 2013, 07:49:01 AM
Good luck Abby, we're with you in spirit and hope for the best!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 12, 2013, 12:27:19 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 12, 2013, 12:27:19 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 12, 2013, 06:10:53 AM
Thanks for all the information about the food! I'll be honest I'm curious about dog meat but I don't think I could mentally do it.
I did try the bibimbap today on the airplane - I must say Korean Air is fantastic and this was by far the most pleasant (well, as pleasant as a 14 hour flight can be) flight I have ever taken.
Anyway I made it to my hotel, Jacquelynn from Yeson met me right outside of immigration and had a car waiting for me. It was so nice! She took me right to my hotel and even helped me check in!
Tomorrow I have my check-up and if all goes well I will have the surgery Wednesday morning.
I seriously can't believe it's here already, I feel like I'm dreaming! :)
Omg super nice! I wish they had that car service when I was there. Definitely taking Korean Air if they have bap on the plane. Sheesh! Sounds like a great trip so far :D
I hope your check up goes well!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on August 13, 2013, 12:43:01 AM
Post by: barbie on August 13, 2013, 12:43:01 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 12, 2013, 06:10:53 AM
I did try the bibimbap today on the airplane - I must say Korean Air is fantastic and this was by far the most pleasant (well, as pleasant as a 14 hour flight can be) flight I have ever taken.
Anyway I made it to my hotel, Jacquelynn from Yeson met me right outside of immigration and had a car waiting for me. It was so nice! She took me right to my hotel and even helped me check in!
Tomorrow I have my check-up and if all goes well I will have the surgery Wednesday morning.
Yes. Korean air line is at a top class in serving passengers, but the airfare is accordingly more expensive than other air lines. My feeling has been that attendants of Korean air line treat passengers as human, but other airliners (I would not specify them) treat passengers as baggage.
And, S. Korean government ordered all of public government offices to shut down air conditioning for 3 days (Aug 12-14). I am in a national university and with no air conditioning right now. Most private sectors are also trying hard to save electricity in fear of nationwide blackout.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-11/south-korea-urges-power-saving-as-shutdowns-portend-shortage.html
Fortunately, today I feel a smack of autumn, but it will be hotter in Seoul anyway.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 02:36:33 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: barbie on August 13, 2013, 12:43:01 AM
Yes. Korean air line is at a top class in serving passengers, but the airfare is accordingly more expensive than other air lines. My feeling has been that attendants of Korean air line treat passengers as human, but other airliners (I would not specify them) treat passengers as baggage.
And, S. Korean government ordered all of public government offices to shut down air conditioning for 3 days (Aug 12-14). I am in a national university and with no air conditioning right now. Most private sectors are also trying hard to save electricity in fear of nationwide blackout.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-11/south-korea-urges-power-saving-as-shutdowns-portend-shortage.html
Fortunately, today I feel a smack of autumn, but it will be hotter in Seoul anyway.
barbie~~
Yes it's about 93 degrees right now and the humidity is astounding! I knew it was going to be bad but gosh I was drenched just walking the 5 minutes it took to get from my hotel to the metro station. I think my hotel might have turned off air conditioning in the lobby because they have all the doors open and it's really hot...thankfully my room is nice and cool!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 02:38:05 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 02:38:05 AM
I just came back from my pre-op exam where I met Dr. Kim and had a bunch of vocal tests run to see where my voice was at and to identify any potential issues with my voice/vocal chords. I have a slight vocal tremor but not enough to require botox during the surgery, so that's good because that would've meant two weeks without being able to talk instead of one.
My mean pitch at my normal male speaking voice is at about 125hz, which is square in the middle of the male range. When I speak at a comfortable female voice (not straining at all, just a comfortable higher pitch than my normal voice) I have a mean frequency of 170hz, which is about 30hz below the bottom end of the female range. With this procedure, the median increase in pitch is about 75hz, so even without "trying" I should have a pitch at the low female end, which is perfectly fine with me.
The staff couldn't have been more friendly and the place was really nice. Jessie was fantastic, as expected. She sat with my through every step of the ~3 hour appointment and made me feel super comfortable.
I have my surgery at 8:00 local time tomorrow morning, so a few hours after that I should be awake and hopefully "there" enough to provide a coherent update! :)
My mean pitch at my normal male speaking voice is at about 125hz, which is square in the middle of the male range. When I speak at a comfortable female voice (not straining at all, just a comfortable higher pitch than my normal voice) I have a mean frequency of 170hz, which is about 30hz below the bottom end of the female range. With this procedure, the median increase in pitch is about 75hz, so even without "trying" I should have a pitch at the low female end, which is perfectly fine with me.
The staff couldn't have been more friendly and the place was really nice. Jessie was fantastic, as expected. She sat with my through every step of the ~3 hour appointment and made me feel super comfortable.
I have my surgery at 8:00 local time tomorrow morning, so a few hours after that I should be awake and hopefully "there" enough to provide a coherent update! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on August 13, 2013, 05:32:20 AM
Post by: Jamie D on August 13, 2013, 05:32:20 AM
Fingers crossed for Abby!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 13, 2013, 09:46:15 AM
Post by: Shantel on August 13, 2013, 09:46:15 AM
Quote from: Jamie D on August 13, 2013, 05:32:20 AM
Fingers crossed for Abby!
Yes me too, good luck hon!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 13, 2013, 12:00:56 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 13, 2013, 12:00:56 PM
Aww Abby, I'm so happy for you!!!
I'll be sending massively positive thoughts your way at around 4PM LA time and wishing you a perfect initial recovery and beyond!
I don't know if you will experience this but when I woke up after surgery it was a little bit hard to breathe, and it kind of scared me for a few minutes. I quickly realized I just had to relax & breathe slowly which made everything fine. Also, I had a lot of phlegm for the first 24 hours and it was really hard to not try to cough up. Take water with you wherever you go! The more water you drink the better. Just a little tip!
You're gonna do great! I'm already so excited to hear your results!
I'll be sending massively positive thoughts your way at around 4PM LA time and wishing you a perfect initial recovery and beyond!
I don't know if you will experience this but when I woke up after surgery it was a little bit hard to breathe, and it kind of scared me for a few minutes. I quickly realized I just had to relax & breathe slowly which made everything fine. Also, I had a lot of phlegm for the first 24 hours and it was really hard to not try to cough up. Take water with you wherever you go! The more water you drink the better. Just a little tip!
You're gonna do great! I'm already so excited to hear your results!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 03:34:52 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 13, 2013, 12:00:56 PM
Aww Abby, I'm so happy for you!!!
I'll be sending massively positive thoughts your way at around 4PM LA time and wishing you a perfect initial recovery and beyond!
I don't know if you will experience this but when I woke up after surgery it was a little bit hard to breathe, and it kind of scared me for a few minutes. I quickly realized I just had to relax & breathe slowly which made everything fine. Also, I had a lot of phlegm for the first 24 hours and it was really hard to not try to cough up. Take water with you wherever you go! The more water you drink the better. Just a little tip!
You're gonna do great! I'm already so excited to hear your results!
Thanks so much for the positive words and the heads up! I will keep in mind about the breathing :)
I'm really only worried about two things. I'm afraid that I will wake up groggy from the surgery and forget that I'm not supposed to be able to talk and scream and yell for the nurse or something lol.
And then the other thing is the no coughing part. Earlier today I felt a cough and tried really, really hard to suppress it. I was able to hold it off for about 5 minutes and then I involuntarily coughed. I'm worried that that will happen again over the next week or so and mess up the results :(. How did you deal with that?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 13, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 13, 2013, 08:38:27 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 03:34:52 PM
Thanks so much for the positive words and the heads up! I will keep in mind about the breathing :)
I'm really only worried about two things. I'm afraid that I will wake up groggy from the surgery and forget that I'm not supposed to be able to talk and scream and yell for the nurse or something lol.
And then the other thing is the no coughing part. Earlier today I felt a cough and tried really, really hard to suppress it. I was able to hold it off for about 5 minutes and then I involuntarily coughed. I'm worried that that will happen again over the next week or so and mess up the results :(. How did you deal with that?
First of all how are you feeling and I hope your surgery went well!!!
I definitely felt that issue with coughing and clearing the throat. I had pretty heavy phlegm for the first 24 hours, then moderate for the next 4 or 5 days and totally fine after that.
To deal with that tingling cough feeling I just always made sure I had a water bottle with me, and I would pretty much be sipping it constantly if I felt one coming on. I went through a TON of water... Almost 3L a day.
Sipping little bits of water repeatedly did seem to help a lot. Also they will give you cough suppressant meds along with several expectorants to take to keep the phlegm as light as possible. If I remember correctly I wanted to cough the most about 1/2 hr after eating. Really try to stay away from spicy/sugary/greasy foods because they will irritate your throat, create mucous and make you want to cough.
Not coughing is the hardest part of recovery. Not talking is easy!
Soooo excited to hear from you!!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 09:10:39 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 09:10:39 PM
I just woke up! Will give full update later when im less groggym first thing I did after waking up was coughed a lot and tries to talk lol, but they said im fine. :)
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 14, 2013, 12:26:02 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 14, 2013, 12:26:02 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 13, 2013, 09:10:39 PM
I just woke up! Will give full update later when im less groggym first thing I did after waking up was coughed a lot and tries to talk lol, but they said im fine. :)
Lol. Great to hear that the surgery went well :)
Happy recovery-ing!
P.s. Let me know if you find a black zip up sweater in the recovery room... ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kate_H on August 14, 2013, 04:29:53 AM
Post by: Kate_H on August 14, 2013, 04:29:53 AM
So excited for Jenny, Abby and anyone else progressing or planning to progress this procedure, it sounds like what we've all been waiting for FOREVER. I can't wait to go myself, hopefully within a year, or less! \o/
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 14, 2013, 05:35:39 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 14, 2013, 05:35:39 AM
Quote from: Kate_H on August 14, 2013, 04:29:53 AM
So excited for Jenny, Abby and anyone else progressing or planning to progress this procedure, it sounds like what we've all been waiting for FOREVER. I can't wait to go myself, hopefully within a year, or less! \o/
Thank you so much, I'm excited for you too! I obviously haven't heard my results yet but I'm pretty optimistic :)
So I just got back to my hotel after having my surgery. I don't think things could have gone any smoother!
The procedure was quick and pretty much painless. I was out and awake again in under an hour, and aside from a slightly sore throat and a slightly numb tongue, I don't feel anything. It's really annoying not being able to really cough because I have a lot of phlegm, but they prescribed me a lot of expectorants and cough medicine to help with it.
I'm eating normal food, it just has to be soft and not spicy, so I cooked some eggs and noodles and just plan on hanging out in my hotel the rest of the night.
I was really surprised by how normal my vocal folds look when the doctor examined them prior to discharge. No blood or anything, and you can barely see the suture. Dr. Kim was very pleased with how they looked.
I can't wait until I can hear my new voice...7 days!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on August 14, 2013, 05:46:44 AM
Post by: Jamie D on August 14, 2013, 05:46:44 AM
Yay Abby! Good for you.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on August 14, 2013, 07:19:43 AM
Post by: barbie on August 14, 2013, 07:19:43 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 14, 2013, 05:35:39 AM
Thank you so much, I'm excited for you too! I obviously haven't heard my results yet but I'm pretty optimistic :)
So I just got back to my hotel after having my surgery. I don't think things could have gone any smoother!
The procedure was quick and pretty much painless. I was out and awake again in under an hour, and aside from a slightly sore throat and a slightly numb tongue, I don't feel anything. It's really annoying not being able to really cough because I have a lot of phlegm, but they prescribed me a lot of expectorants and cough medicine to help with it.
I'm eating normal food, it just has to be soft and not spicy, so I cooked some eggs and noodles and just plan on hanging out in my hotel the rest of the night.
I was really surprised by how normal my vocal folds look when the doctor examined them prior to discharge. No blood or anything, and you can barely see the suture. Dr. Kim was very pleased with how they looked.
I can't wait until I can hear my new voice...7 days!
Abby,
Congrats. It seems the surgery went well, although the details will be available sooner or later.
At night, it becomes suddenly cool, and the power shortage crisis was over today. You may enjoy Seoul summer. Humidity will be still high, which is anyway good for your throat. I do not like a life in Seoul.
Keep in touch,
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 14, 2013, 01:47:31 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 14, 2013, 01:47:31 PM
Great to hear, Abby! Especially about your vocal cords being in good shape. I bet you will get the best possible result!
The numb tongue thing is weird and annoying. Dr. Kim told me it was from when they insert the apparatus that holds your throat open and makes the vocal cords accessible directly in a straight line. The tongue can get caught or pinched a little during the process. It took almost 2 weeks until it was completely gone, but by the second week I didn't notice it unless I felt for it. My guess is that tool also causes mild sore throat. The actual surgical area is miniscule.
Oh yeah, and how does it feel to be permanently rid of the male vocal range?? I remember that being an especially joyous realization even during the no-talk period :D
So glad that you are doing well and that your vocal cords are already looking great. Don't stop drinkin that water girl!
The numb tongue thing is weird and annoying. Dr. Kim told me it was from when they insert the apparatus that holds your throat open and makes the vocal cords accessible directly in a straight line. The tongue can get caught or pinched a little during the process. It took almost 2 weeks until it was completely gone, but by the second week I didn't notice it unless I felt for it. My guess is that tool also causes mild sore throat. The actual surgical area is miniscule.
Oh yeah, and how does it feel to be permanently rid of the male vocal range?? I remember that being an especially joyous realization even during the no-talk period :D
So glad that you are doing well and that your vocal cords are already looking great. Don't stop drinkin that water girl!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 14, 2013, 07:17:26 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 14, 2013, 07:17:26 PM
Quote from: barbie on August 14, 2013, 07:19:43 AM
Abby,
Congrats. It seems the surgery went well, although the details will be available sooner or later.
At night, it becomes suddenly cool, and the power shortage crisis was over today. You may enjoy Seoul summer. Humidity will be still high, which is anyway good for your throat. I do not like a life in Seoul.
Keep in touch,
barbie~~
Thank you! And yeah, the first full day I was here (Tuesday) was the worst! Yesterday it was very pleasant in the evening, hopefully it is just as nice today/tonight :)
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 14, 2013, 01:47:31 PM
Great to hear, Abby! Especially about your vocal cords being in good shape. I bet you will get the best possible result!
The numb tongue thing is weird and annoying. Dr. Kim told me it was from when they insert the apparatus that holds your throat open and makes the vocal cords accessible directly in a straight line. The tongue can get caught or pinched a little during the process. It took almost 2 weeks until it was completely gone, but by the second week I didn't notice it unless I felt for it. My guess is that tool also causes mild sore throat. The actual surgical area is miniscule.
Oh yeah, and how does it feel to be permanently rid of the male vocal range?? I remember that being an especially joyous realization even during the no-talk period :D
So glad that you are doing well and that your vocal cords are already looking great. Don't stop drinkin that water girl!
It feels weird!! I was just thinking that lol. Definitely a good weird though :) I'm so excited I feel like these next 6 days are going to go by soooo slowly.
I've been drinking tons of water! My hotel is really nice, they provide me with 4 bottles of water each day and I carry two around in my purse whenever I go anywhere :)
Today I feel a little bit drained...not sure from the medications or what, and my neck is a bit sore. But my throat feels pretty much back to normal and the medications are doing a great job of keeping the phlegm manageable and I haven't felt a need to cough. :)
I'm going to the COEX mall today to get some shopping done! I hope it's open, apparently it's Korean Independence Day so a lot of places might be closed.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 14, 2013, 09:15:07 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 14, 2013, 09:15:07 PM
Glad to hear you are getting enough water and that the meds are keeping your throat clear!
I'm sure the humidity in the air must help a lot, too!
I had a bit of an affirming experience just now. My friend who has no cell phone and only makes calls from a land-line (I know right?!) dialed the wrong number and thought for 5 min that he was talking to one of my good female friends. Apparently I pass as her over the phone! Lol. This was after coming back from a meeting with my gender therapist (who I haven't seen for months) and she was super blown away with my voice. She kept saying how this was the future and how excited she was- asked me all about the procedure and said she will for sure be recommending it to her colleagues.
I'd have to say that out of all the things I have done throughout my transition so far, the voice surgery has been by far the biggest and most life changing difference besides going full time. I may not pass allll the time but I don't care. I will always love the way I sound even to myself.
I'm sure the humidity in the air must help a lot, too!
I had a bit of an affirming experience just now. My friend who has no cell phone and only makes calls from a land-line (I know right?!) dialed the wrong number and thought for 5 min that he was talking to one of my good female friends. Apparently I pass as her over the phone! Lol. This was after coming back from a meeting with my gender therapist (who I haven't seen for months) and she was super blown away with my voice. She kept saying how this was the future and how excited she was- asked me all about the procedure and said she will for sure be recommending it to her colleagues.
I'd have to say that out of all the things I have done throughout my transition so far, the voice surgery has been by far the biggest and most life changing difference besides going full time. I may not pass allll the time but I don't care. I will always love the way I sound even to myself.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charley Bea(EmeraldP) on August 14, 2013, 10:50:12 PM
Post by: Charley Bea(EmeraldP) on August 14, 2013, 10:50:12 PM
Curious as to whether you still have to put on a voice a little(learning that myself) or if you don't need to anymore and just talk and it comes out female?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 03:45:11 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 03:45:11 AM
The best way for me to describe it is a little bit of both. Not only did I want to, I pretty much had to put on a voice that is in the female range because after the surgery I had no other option to comfortably make conversation.
There is a lot that goes into a voice to make it sound like a natural female. Pitch, what this surgery modifies, is just one of them. There is still resonance, pitch dynamics, cadence, word choice, phrasing, emotion, and a whole slew of other things that this surgery doesn't do and you have to learn on your own. After they modify the fundamental pitch, it is up to you to continue training your voice all the way to sounding completely female/passable. It seems way easier this way to me, though, because of two reasons: #1 voice automatically feels more natural in a higher range and #2 never being afraid to make the mistake of going back down into a male frequency range.
No voice surgery is going to make you sound female. If you already have a very feminine voice, then perhaps it totally will. But if you were like me with a very male pattern voice, it still takes a considerable amount of work to pass. It's just easier because it seems less like a search and more like a discovery.
There is a lot that goes into a voice to make it sound like a natural female. Pitch, what this surgery modifies, is just one of them. There is still resonance, pitch dynamics, cadence, word choice, phrasing, emotion, and a whole slew of other things that this surgery doesn't do and you have to learn on your own. After they modify the fundamental pitch, it is up to you to continue training your voice all the way to sounding completely female/passable. It seems way easier this way to me, though, because of two reasons: #1 voice automatically feels more natural in a higher range and #2 never being afraid to make the mistake of going back down into a male frequency range.
No voice surgery is going to make you sound female. If you already have a very feminine voice, then perhaps it totally will. But if you were like me with a very male pattern voice, it still takes a considerable amount of work to pass. It's just easier because it seems less like a search and more like a discovery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on August 15, 2013, 07:11:35 AM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on August 15, 2013, 07:11:35 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 03:45:11 AM
It's just easier because it seems less like a search and more like a discovery.
You know when somebody says something that really sets your thoughts going ...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on August 15, 2013, 07:45:40 AM
Post by: Nicolette on August 15, 2013, 07:45:40 AM
Quote from: EmeraldPerpugilliam on August 14, 2013, 10:50:12 PM
Curious as to whether you still have to put on a voice a little(learning that myself) or if you don't need to anymore and just talk and it comes out female?
I look at it this way. When I stopped 'putting on' a male voice, I started sounding much more female. Also, if one raises their pitch alone, it will sound 'off', and one is at risk of sounding like a prepubescent boy and not like a woman.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jaelithe on August 15, 2013, 07:56:17 AM
Post by: Jaelithe on August 15, 2013, 07:56:17 AM
What a lovely discovery! I am certainly going to make a note of this, as face and voice are currently at the top of my list for potential surgeries depending on how everything else falls out in the coming year or two.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 12:46:51 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 12:46:51 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 03:45:11 AM
It seems way easier this way to me, though, because of two reasons: #1 voice automatically feels more natural in a higher range and #2 never being afraid to make the mistake of going back down into a male frequency range.
This! This was the biggest thing for me. From doing voice therapy for about 5 months I developed a somewhat passable female voice but it was so so easy for me to slip back into my male range that it made it difficult/impossible to use it in public. The other voice surgeries try to do the whole shebang at a pretty crazy risk when all I really wanted was the peace of mind that no matter what I would be unable to speak in a male range. I knew going into this that it wouldn't fix everything with my voice and I'm perfectly fine with that. If this surgery wasn't available I wouldn't have done any voice surgery and would have just dealt with my voice the way it was. But after learning about this surgery and reading others' experiences I decided to do it as a comfort/quality of life thing.
So everything seems to be healing fine! I have no more pain at all, and while my tongue is still numb it's only a small part of it and I don't even notice it unless I focus on it.
I've been really good about not coughing but gosh I didn't realize how much I involuntarily make noise or talk to myself when I'm alone lol. :( On three occasions I've caught myself trying to make a noise, like saying "aww" when I saw a picture of a really cute kitten or try to hum when one of my favorite songs started playing. Nothing really came out and it didn't hurt and I'm certainly not straining anything, so I really hope it didn't mess anything up since it hasn't even been 48 hours. :( I imagine I'm fine and just worrying about it too much but I'm trying really, really hard to focus on not making any noises.
It was still nice and hot in Seoul today (heat index got up to almost 110!) so I went to a big mall/aquarium and walked around and did some shopping. It was Korean Independance Day so a lot of people were off work and it was really crowded. Tomorrow I'm going on a full day city tour that Jessie at Yeson scheduled for me as part of the price of the surgery package.
5 more days until my post-op checkup and test drive of the new voice!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: RachelH on August 15, 2013, 01:09:48 PM
Post by: RachelH on August 15, 2013, 01:09:48 PM
Can I just say a big thankyou to both Abby and Jenny for such a detailed and and amazing report on Yeson's. I hope you both continue to heal, and your voices become as beautiful as you both are!
I've added this to my list of things I will be doing next year, when I can book time off work. I've been looking into VFS for over 6 months and wanted to have it but was very scared of the very high risks. My reasons are exactly the same I want the security of never going into the male range again.
I'll be watching eagerly as you both heal :)
I've added this to my list of things I will be doing next year, when I can book time off work. I've been looking into VFS for over 6 months and wanted to have it but was very scared of the very high risks. My reasons are exactly the same I want the security of never going into the male range again.
I'll be watching eagerly as you both heal :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 15, 2013, 01:41:45 PM
Post by: Shantel on August 15, 2013, 01:41:45 PM
Congrats to you Abby and to Jenny, this isn't something that I'll ever do but I'm happy for you both because you will be able to reach your fullest potential and always be fully passable as two rather foxy looking women, we are all pleased for you both. The women that follow your footsteps would probably never have known had you not shared your experiences with them.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 01:58:43 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 01:58:43 PM
Sooo happy to be able to help by sharing experiences! Thank you for the kindness and appreciation :D
Abby I'm sure you're fine. I nearly tried to yell to get my friend's attention 3 days post op, then I proceeded to freak out thinking I might have messed something up. I texted Jessie immediately and she said as long as I felt no pain I would be totally fine. I also found out that over ten years and the hundreds of times Dr. Kim has performed this surgery, only one person has messed up their recovery badly enough to warrant doing the procedure over again due to a torn suture (apparently they tried to yell very loudly). Sorry to make you even think about it, but that was definitely a statistic that eased my mind!
So, if you have no pain in your throat I'm sure you are a-okay!
Keep healing well, we are all super excited to hear that beautiful voice!
Thanks again Jaelithe, Rachel, and Shan for the really kind words :)
Abby I'm sure you're fine. I nearly tried to yell to get my friend's attention 3 days post op, then I proceeded to freak out thinking I might have messed something up. I texted Jessie immediately and she said as long as I felt no pain I would be totally fine. I also found out that over ten years and the hundreds of times Dr. Kim has performed this surgery, only one person has messed up their recovery badly enough to warrant doing the procedure over again due to a torn suture (apparently they tried to yell very loudly). Sorry to make you even think about it, but that was definitely a statistic that eased my mind!
So, if you have no pain in your throat I'm sure you are a-okay!
Keep healing well, we are all super excited to hear that beautiful voice!
Thanks again Jaelithe, Rachel, and Shan for the really kind words :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:01:37 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 19, 2013, 04:37:17 PM
Also, I wanted to touch on the fact that during my examination, Dr Kim found that I had a few problems with my vocal chords. From years of trying to raise the pitch of my voice and straining it, I had developed an asymmetry with one vocal chord being thicker than the other one, as well as a hemorrhage on the opposite side from some kind of trauma... Likely this was due to me trying to belt or shout at a higher pitch. As a result, I had a vocal tremor that would have gotten worse over the years. It would have been harder and harder for me to properly phonate- at the same time slowly losing my upper range of frequencies. Even in my voice tests it was showing that it took me a lot more pressure / airflow for me to make a noise than it should.
Thankfully both of these problems were corrected during the surgery. So, if I strictly adhere to the recovery instructions, my voice quality should actually improve along with going up in pitch.
Jenny I know this is from way back but I've been re-reading your posts from right after surgery. I had the same issues with my vocal folds - there was a slight imbalance that was corrected during surgery and a slight tremor that he said medication would help. Also during the examination he found I had the same issue with having to use more pressure and energy to speak, likely related to the imbalances.
You said he mentioned that medication alone would deal with the tremor but then you mentioned you couldn't speak for another week after the initial period because of botox. So Dr. Kim ended up going that route instead of just medication? For me he didn't do the Botox, or at least didn't mention it if he did.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:03:13 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: RachelH on August 15, 2013, 01:09:48 PM
Can I just say a big thankyou to both Abby and Jenny for such a detailed and and amazing report on Yeson's. I hope you both continue to heal, and your voices become as beautiful as you both are!
I've added this to my list of things I will be doing next year, when I can book time off work. I've been looking into VFS for over 6 months and wanted to have it but was very scared of the very high risks. My reasons are exactly the same I want the security of never going into the male range again.
I'll be watching eagerly as you both heal :)
Thank you but really Jenny is the one that deserves all the credit here! She was the brave one who decided to go into it a lot more blindly than myself!! It wasn't for her I wouldn't be here!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:04:09 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:04:09 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 01:58:43 PM
Sooo happy to be able to help by sharing experiences! Thank you for the kindness and appreciation :D
Abby I'm sure you're fine. I nearly tried to yell to get my friend's attention 3 days post op, then I proceeded to freak out thinking I might have messed something up. I texted Jessie immediately and she said as long as I felt no pain I would be totally fine. I also found out that over ten years and the hundreds of times Dr. Kim has performed this surgery, only one person has messed up their recovery badly enough to warrant doing the procedure over again due to a torn suture (apparently they tried to yell very loudly). Sorry to make you even think about it, but that was definitely a statistic that eased my mind!
So, if you have no pain in your throat I'm sure you are a-okay!
Keep healing well, we are all super excited to hear that beautiful voice!
Thanks again Jaelithe, Rachel, and Shan for the really kind words :)
Phew, thank you! That statistic actually really helps. :) I figure I have nothing to worry about since there's no pain I'm just sure you understand how important it is to me that the healing period goes perfectly!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 02:17:43 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:01:37 PM
Jenny I know this is from way back but I've been re-reading your posts from right after surgery. I had the same issues with my vocal folds - there was a slight imbalance that was corrected during surgery and a slight tremor that he said medication would help. Also during the examination he found I had the same issue with having to use more pressure and energy to speak, likely related to the imbalances.
You said he mentioned that medication alone would deal with the tremor but then you mentioned you couldn't speak for another week after the initial period because of botox. So Dr. Kim ended up going that route instead of just medication? For me he didn't do the Botox, or at least didn't mention it if he did.
Interesting that you had the asymmetry as well! I wonder if it possibly has to do with straining while training the female voice.
I didn't get the botox injection until my 7 day checkup. On that day, they took me into a room and Dr. Kim positioned the laryngoscope. Then he asked me to try to hold any pitch while he examined the vocal folds. It was INCREDIBLY hard to make any noise at all, and what did come out sounded kind of like a high pitched zombie, haha. After that he said everything looked great and I wrote to him something like, "Wooo! I can talk now?!" He said sorry no and that I would have to stay silent for another week because of the botox injection I was about to get. BLUH are you serious?! lol. That next week after (when I got home) was TRULY the longest week ever ;)
If you had a tremor, most likely he will recommend the botox and ask you to not talk for another week (or maybe two? I forget). Laryngeal botox injection has the effect of completely relaxing your vocal cords to the point where making sound is not even possible and very difficult for 2-3 weeks following. He said it was great for the healing though because it prevents any damage due to over-tightening the vocal cords too early on in recovery. They won't do the botox injection unless you want it, though, and it was an extra 400usd when they did it for me.
The medication part comes in when the botox wears off after 3-4 months. That reminds me... it's almost time for me to start taking that!
If you had an asymmetry and needed botox like me, I would try not to get your hopes up on talking immediately following that 7 day checkup. It could be another week or two more that he asks you to remain quiet.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 02:25:05 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 02:25:05 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:04:09 PM
Phew, thank you! That statistic actually really helps. :) I figure I have nothing to worry about since there's no pain I'm just sure you understand how important it is to me that the healing period goes perfectly!
Awww I know EXACTLY how you feel. Lol
I studied that post-op checklist daily like it was a life and death situation :D Also another huge reason I was so impressed with Jessie was that she never once showed any kind of regret for giving me her private cell phone number- even though I felt like I was flooding her phone daily with anxiety driven questions! Ha!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:32:49 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 15, 2013, 02:32:49 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on August 15, 2013, 02:17:43 PM
Interesting that you had the asymmetry as well! I wonder if it possibly has to do with straining while training the female voice.
I didn't get the botox injection until my 7 day checkup. On that day, they took me into a room and Dr. Kim positioned the laryngoscope. Then he asked me to try to hold any pitch while he examined the vocal folds. It was INCREDIBLY hard to make any noise at all, and what did come out sounded kind of like a high pitched zombie, haha. After that he said everything looked great and I wrote to him something like, "Wooo! I can talk now?!" He said sorry no and that I would have to stay silent for another week because of the botox injection I was about to get. BLUH are you serious?! lol. That next week after (when I got home) was TRULY the longest week ever ;)
If you had a tremor, most likely he will recommend the botox and ask you to not talk for another week (or maybe two? I forget). Laryngeal botox injection has the effect of completely relaxing your vocal cords to the point where making sound is not even possible and very difficult for 2-3 weeks following. He said it was great for the healing though because it prevents any damage due to over-tightening the vocal cords too early on in recovery. They won't do the botox injection unless you want it, though, and it was an extra 400usd when they did it for me.
The medication part comes in when the botox wears off after 3-4 months. That reminds me... it's almost time for me to start taking that!
If you had an asymmetry and needed botox like me, I would try not to get your hopes up on talking immediately following that 7 day checkup. It could be another week or two more that he asks you to remain quiet.
Oh okay thanks for clarifying! Actually as long as there is no downside I would probably prefer to get the botox no matter what if it means making the healing period go that much better.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 16, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 16, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
Yesterday was a lot of fun! The tour Yeson sent me on ended up being a private one because the only other person scheduled was a no show lol. We saw some beautiful palaces, ate bibimbap for lunch, and did a lot of shopping.
I seriously think I need to sew my mouth shut or something though! Last night I again muttered a couple of words under my breath without realizing it. This time actual words came out but I don't think they sounded any different in pitch. I'm really hoping I'm not messing anything up here..
And then this morning I was crying when I woke up and I'm worried that I made noises in my sleep. I dreamt that I was slightly rude to a stranger and then I found out that his wife had died recently so I burst into tears in my dream. In my dream I realized I was making noises so I stopped immediately and then I woke up in tears (thanks hormones!!). I'm not sure if I actually made any whining noises in my sleep or not but since my throat feels fine I'm going to try not to worry about it too much.
I seriously think I need to sew my mouth shut or something though! Last night I again muttered a couple of words under my breath without realizing it. This time actual words came out but I don't think they sounded any different in pitch. I'm really hoping I'm not messing anything up here..
And then this morning I was crying when I woke up and I'm worried that I made noises in my sleep. I dreamt that I was slightly rude to a stranger and then I found out that his wife had died recently so I burst into tears in my dream. In my dream I realized I was making noises so I stopped immediately and then I woke up in tears (thanks hormones!!). I'm not sure if I actually made any whining noises in my sleep or not but since my throat feels fine I'm going to try not to worry about it too much.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 16, 2013, 07:20:34 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 16, 2013, 07:20:34 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 16, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
Yesterday was a lot of fun! The tour Yeson sent me on ended up being a private one because the only other person scheduled was a no show lol. We saw some beautiful palaces, ate bibimbap for lunch, and did a lot of shopping.
I seriously think I need to sew my mouth shut or something though! Last night I again muttered a couple of words under my breath without realizing it. This time actual words came out but I don't think they sounded any different in pitch. I'm really hoping I'm not messing anything up here..
And then this morning I was crying when I woke up and I'm worried that I made noises in my sleep. I dreamt that I was slightly rude to a stranger and then I found out that his wife had died recently so I burst into tears in my dream. In my dream I realized I was making noises so I stopped immediately and then I woke up in tears (thanks hormones!!). I'm not sure if I actually made any whining noises in my sleep or not but since my throat feels fine I'm going to try not to worry about it too much.
You're probably fine, but definitely try to be as careful as possible to not make any more noises. These first 7 days are crucial because the surgical area hasn't yet had a chance to heal all the way.
I'm sure if you don't feel any pain you're doing great.. Definitely not worth worrying about anything being screwed up! I completely understand the feeling, though. I was an anxious mess- constantly worried that every little thing was somehow going to affect my results :P Still, I think being a little overly cautious is a-okay.
Hopefully tomorrow night your dreams are a little more understanding of your recovery situation ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 16, 2013, 07:56:26 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 16, 2013, 07:56:26 PM
Yeah, I know how important it is...which makes it so frustrating! Like yesterday I was out and about ALL day and did not make a single peep...and then I was back at my hotel washing up and I overheard something on the TV that made me mutter "no >-bleeped-<" under my breath. I was so pissed off at myself!
I am far from a talkative person and figured that the no-talk period would be easy-peasy for me but so far it's happened once a day where I was careless and let something slip. Ugh!
I am far from a talkative person and figured that the no-talk period would be easy-peasy for me but so far it's happened once a day where I was careless and let something slip. Ugh!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 17, 2013, 09:55:14 AM
Post by: Shantel on August 17, 2013, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 16, 2013, 07:56:26 PM
Yeah, I know how important it is...which makes it so frustrating! Like yesterday I was out and about ALL day and did not make a single peep...and then I was back at my hotel washing up and I overheard something on the TV that made me mutter "no >-bleeped-<" under my breath. I was so pissed off at myself!
I am far from a talkative person and figured that the no-talk period would be easy-peasy for me but so far it's happened once a day where I was careless and let something slip. Ugh!
Are you doing a before and after voice tape like Jenny did?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 17, 2013, 06:50:06 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 17, 2013, 06:50:06 PM
Quote from: Shantel on August 17, 2013, 09:55:14 AM
Are you doing a before and after voice tape like Jenny did?
Yes I am! The surgery center did a few voice recordings before my operation and I think at one month post-op (Jenny can confirm!) I will do my after recording and send it in to them.
In other news yesterday went great and I did not make any noise or have any hormone-induced sleep-crying, YAY!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 17, 2013, 09:13:56 PM
Post by: Shantel on August 17, 2013, 09:13:56 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 17, 2013, 06:50:06 PM
Yes I am! The surgery center did a few voice recordings before my operation and I think at one month post-op (Jenny can confirm!) I will do my after recording and send it in to them.
In other news yesterday went great and I did not make any noise or have any hormone-induced sleep-crying, YAY!
Good going Abby, hope we get to hear your new voice when you're ready.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 20, 2013, 04:45:32 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 20, 2013, 04:45:32 PM
Today is my one week follow up at Yeson! Jeeze I can't believe how fast it's gone by. I'm only in Seoul for two more days but I'm definitely coming back at some point so I can experience the city more fully (and when the weather is a bit more forgiving.)
Since my sleep crying incident I haven't made a peep so I'm really happy with myself. We will see today how well everything is healing and whether or not I need botox.
I'll update you guys after the appointment!
Since my sleep crying incident I haven't made a peep so I'm really happy with myself. We will see today how well everything is healing and whether or not I need botox.
I'll update you guys after the appointment!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 21, 2013, 06:51:33 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 21, 2013, 06:51:33 AM
My appointment went great! Dr. Kim said everything is healing fine and decided that botox was not necessary. So I can now say a few words a day for the next three weeks!
Here is a voice recording of me saying "hello". This is just speaking normally without trying to raise pitch and without focusing on resonance: http://vocaroo.com/i/s07wITcCLBy1
It sounds pretty androgynous to me (I'm guessing that I'm at maybe 180hz there) but I'm very happy considering how weak my voice is and the fact that I'm only one week post op. The surgeon said that over the next 6-12 months my pitch will slowly rise as the scar tissue heals and tightens.
Here is a voice recording of me saying "hello". This is just speaking normally without trying to raise pitch and without focusing on resonance: http://vocaroo.com/i/s07wITcCLBy1
It sounds pretty androgynous to me (I'm guessing that I'm at maybe 180hz there) but I'm very happy considering how weak my voice is and the fact that I'm only one week post op. The surgeon said that over the next 6-12 months my pitch will slowly rise as the scar tissue heals and tightens.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: margaux29 on August 21, 2013, 10:39:39 AM
Post by: margaux29 on August 21, 2013, 10:39:39 AM
hello! I am French, I am 25 years old, hrt for 7 months, I am full-time in my life. I wanted to thank you for sharing your experience on surgery voice. I think Yeson voice center is the best surgery in the world today, most secure.
Today, I have a very androgynous voice, I would be interested to go to South Korea in 2014, after my ffs in Paris in December. I find your very beautiful and natural voice Jenny, I'm happy for you. I also listen to your audio clip, Abbyt, your voice is natural, I think the healing time and if you apply the advantage of resonance will be very feminine.
I was not able to put a picture on my avatar, here are two pictures both me, makeup and non-makeup. excuse me, I do not write very well in English
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_326096Photodemoi12.png&hash=6ca5a5c166929531666b429fea9a1cf272d55bee)][URL=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=326096Photodemoi12.png](https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_326096Photodemoi12.png&hash=6ca5a5c166929531666b429fea9a1cf272d55bee) (http://[url=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=326096Photodemoi12.png)[/url]
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_505693Photodemoi19.png&hash=0087688eb64dae025417e77f790606f95b287674)][URL=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=505693Photodemoi19.png](https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_505693Photodemoi19.png&hash=0087688eb64dae025417e77f790606f95b287674) (http://[url=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=505693Photodemoi19.png)[/url]
Today, I have a very androgynous voice, I would be interested to go to South Korea in 2014, after my ffs in Paris in December. I find your very beautiful and natural voice Jenny, I'm happy for you. I also listen to your audio clip, Abbyt, your voice is natural, I think the healing time and if you apply the advantage of resonance will be very feminine.
I was not able to put a picture on my avatar, here are two pictures both me, makeup and non-makeup. excuse me, I do not write very well in English
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_326096Photodemoi12.png&hash=6ca5a5c166929531666b429fea9a1cf272d55bee)][URL=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=326096Photodemoi12.png](https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_326096Photodemoi12.png&hash=6ca5a5c166929531666b429fea9a1cf272d55bee) (http://[url=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=326096Photodemoi12.png)[/url]
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_505693Photodemoi19.png&hash=0087688eb64dae025417e77f790606f95b287674)][URL=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=505693Photodemoi19.png](https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_505693Photodemoi19.png&hash=0087688eb64dae025417e77f790606f95b287674) (http://[url=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=505693Photodemoi19.png)[/url]
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 21, 2013, 11:04:03 AM
Post by: Shantel on August 21, 2013, 11:04:03 AM
Quote from: margaux29 on August 21, 2013, 10:39:39 AM
hello! I am French, I am 25 years old, hrt for 7 months, I am full-time in my life. I wanted to thank you for sharing your experience on surgery voice.
I was not able to put a picture on my avatar, here are two pictures both me, makeup and non-makeup. excuse me, I do not write very well in English
Hello and welcome Margaux,
You write just fine and I must say that you are a very attractive young woman!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 22, 2013, 10:00:55 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 22, 2013, 10:00:55 PM
Hi Margeaux, your English is fine...and I must say you look fantastic!
I hope all goes well with your FFS and if you're interested in voice surgery definitely look into Yeson. I have been so pleased with my experience so far.
Today is my last day in Seoul! It's sad leaving but I am excited to get home to my friends and family and of course my two kitties. This city is so neat, and I only was able to experience a teeny tiny fraction of it. I definitely want to come back, maybe in the spring I'll do my follow up.
I have been sticking to saying no more than a few words a day, in fact I don't think I said any yesterday. I'm getting pretty used to it by now lol.
Yesterday I went on a bit of a shopping spree and bought roughly two years worth of skincare products from Missha. I've ordered skincare stuff from them in the US but it was sooo much cheaper here and they had way more of a selection. I was also able to try some of their makeup and fell in love with an eyeliner pen so much that I'm bringing 10 of them back with me lol. Korean women are experts when it comes to skincare and eye makeup, I swear!
I'll keep you guys updated with how my voice is healing!
I hope all goes well with your FFS and if you're interested in voice surgery definitely look into Yeson. I have been so pleased with my experience so far.
Today is my last day in Seoul! It's sad leaving but I am excited to get home to my friends and family and of course my two kitties. This city is so neat, and I only was able to experience a teeny tiny fraction of it. I definitely want to come back, maybe in the spring I'll do my follow up.
I have been sticking to saying no more than a few words a day, in fact I don't think I said any yesterday. I'm getting pretty used to it by now lol.
Yesterday I went on a bit of a shopping spree and bought roughly two years worth of skincare products from Missha. I've ordered skincare stuff from them in the US but it was sooo much cheaper here and they had way more of a selection. I was also able to try some of their makeup and fell in love with an eyeliner pen so much that I'm bringing 10 of them back with me lol. Korean women are experts when it comes to skincare and eye makeup, I swear!
I'll keep you guys updated with how my voice is healing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 22, 2013, 10:28:18 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 22, 2013, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: Glitterfly on August 22, 2013, 10:13:44 PM
Hey I'm really glad you posted this topic! I've been thinking about this too, I heard about someone doing this in Korea but I never got a name/address... Yeson voice center, now I have the name of the clinic! Do you know their prices? Do they have a website and are the prices listed there? Do you know if they do it with a scalpel or laser? Will they leave staples in permanently or will it be all 'clean' (nothing left behind) after they remove the stitches/...?
My voice is in the female range and I'm never mistaken for anything but a female because of my voice but I'm not really satisfied with it... Like you, I'd like there to be no alternative for my pitch, I don't want to worry about my voice dropping/sounding bad if I get a cold or something stuck in my throat or or... you know? I'd prefer it to be a 'sure thing' and that's what the surgery would accomplish (in my eyes at least). I'm willing to go for it despite it not being a 100% sure thing and 80% satisfactio rate sounds good!
Hey SO great to hear from someone who's just recently had surgery there! ^^ I'll be sure to read your updates (feel free to PM me if you remember/feel like it!) Can you give me the contact info? Also, can you answer the questions I asked above (bolded)? How much did the surgery cost?
edited: I read on page 4 that the surgery cost $7400... is that how much you paid for it? Just wanting to make sure :)
Hello glitterfly! Here is a link to their website, which should answer most of your questions. If not, just e-mail them and Jessie will be more than happy to answer any additional questions:
http://www.yesonvc.net/disease/feminization_surgery.asp
The procedure is completely endoscopic, meaning no incision is made at all so there is no scar. The procedure itself is very short, like 30 minutes. I was put under and woke up in under an hour and only had very minor throat pain for about 24 hours.
The surgery itself was about $7,400, yes. My flight from DC was $1,700 and 11 nights in a hotel here was about $1,600. With all other costs I think I spent roughly $12,000 for the entire trip.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 23, 2013, 04:48:59 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 23, 2013, 04:48:59 AM
Sorry I've been away from the forums for a few days... Super duper busy right now :o
Glad to hear things are going well, Abby! Sounds like you are right on track! It is neat because even at first you'll likely be pleased with your voice, but it will just keep getting better. The excitement still hasn't faded for me. I still notice a difference every week or so, and I'm at 3 months and 1 week post op. I have a feeling that at 12 months it's going to sound quite different! I love using my voice and learning new things to make it sound even better. It just seems to happen naturally.
Glitteryfly- I'm glad that this thread has helped you! I found it to be kind of strange that nobody had documented it already, and I immediately set out to do the best I could to do just that.. in the hopes that it would somehow be of use to someone like you :)
Honestly I've been re-thinking both of the other surgeries I was interested in (aside from SRS) because my quality of life has been ramping up as the weeks go on and my voice continues to improve. It's hard to say how much is due to actual surgical recovery versus how much I am learning as a product of my natural speaking pitch being altered. What I do know is that I am a lot happier than I ever have been and my dysphoria is at an all time low. Now I am just looking forward to SRS and it feels great to know that is what's next on the horizon.
I have listened to my pre-op voice only a few times since they posted my 1 month before/after, and it just becomes weirder and weirder to hear it. "How on earth did I EVER sound like that??" -my brain
I am super busy right now with getting ready for this huge party in the desert called Burning Man, so I don't know when I'll have a chance to respond again. But regardless, it's nice to see that Abby is doing well and that this thread is helping to spread the word to those that need it :D
Keep up the good recovery, Abby! Can't wait to hear you speak sentences!!
Glad to hear things are going well, Abby! Sounds like you are right on track! It is neat because even at first you'll likely be pleased with your voice, but it will just keep getting better. The excitement still hasn't faded for me. I still notice a difference every week or so, and I'm at 3 months and 1 week post op. I have a feeling that at 12 months it's going to sound quite different! I love using my voice and learning new things to make it sound even better. It just seems to happen naturally.
Glitteryfly- I'm glad that this thread has helped you! I found it to be kind of strange that nobody had documented it already, and I immediately set out to do the best I could to do just that.. in the hopes that it would somehow be of use to someone like you :)
Honestly I've been re-thinking both of the other surgeries I was interested in (aside from SRS) because my quality of life has been ramping up as the weeks go on and my voice continues to improve. It's hard to say how much is due to actual surgical recovery versus how much I am learning as a product of my natural speaking pitch being altered. What I do know is that I am a lot happier than I ever have been and my dysphoria is at an all time low. Now I am just looking forward to SRS and it feels great to know that is what's next on the horizon.
I have listened to my pre-op voice only a few times since they posted my 1 month before/after, and it just becomes weirder and weirder to hear it. "How on earth did I EVER sound like that??" -my brain
I am super busy right now with getting ready for this huge party in the desert called Burning Man, so I don't know when I'll have a chance to respond again. But regardless, it's nice to see that Abby is doing well and that this thread is helping to spread the word to those that need it :D
Keep up the good recovery, Abby! Can't wait to hear you speak sentences!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 23, 2013, 05:45:57 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 23, 2013, 05:45:57 AM
Thanks, I will! I've been to it 3 other times, but this will be my first time presenting there as a girl... and a single one, too! ;) It's going to be completely different (moreso because of the singleness but who knows) and I'm mega looking forward.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 25, 2013, 03:17:24 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 25, 2013, 03:17:24 AM
Oh my gosh Burning Man is something that is definitely on my bucket list...I hope you have a great time Jenny!
So it's been 11 days since my surgery and my pitch has continued to go up a bit. Here's another small recording (this time two words!!) - I was saying good morning to my two cats (lol I know, I know...)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1srBlbY3UUN
Average pitch was 211hz and the range was 177-257hz.
I really can't wait until I start my vocal exercises and can work in my resonance training into my new voice, I think it's going to sound great in a month or two!
So it's been 11 days since my surgery and my pitch has continued to go up a bit. Here's another small recording (this time two words!!) - I was saying good morning to my two cats (lol I know, I know...)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1srBlbY3UUN
Average pitch was 211hz and the range was 177-257hz.
I really can't wait until I start my vocal exercises and can work in my resonance training into my new voice, I think it's going to sound great in a month or two!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on August 25, 2013, 04:41:08 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on August 25, 2013, 04:41:08 AM
Thanks Abby :D This will be my fourth time going in the past 5 years. Wow they really do start to add up! I am leaving sometime between tomorrow night and Tuesday morning! So very excited!
Your voice sounds good for being only 11 days. I was instructed to not say a word until day 15 and it sounded way more restricted. It sounds like you are right on track if not ahead of where I was :)
I as well could not wait to start the vocal exercises. They have helped me a lot, especially now that I am combining stretching exercises in the middle.
Keep healing up, can't wait to hear you at 1 month!
Your voice sounds good for being only 11 days. I was instructed to not say a word until day 15 and it sounded way more restricted. It sounds like you are right on track if not ahead of where I was :)
I as well could not wait to start the vocal exercises. They have helped me a lot, especially now that I am combining stretching exercises in the middle.
Keep healing up, can't wait to hear you at 1 month!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 25, 2013, 11:28:15 AM
Post by: Shantel on August 25, 2013, 11:28:15 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 25, 2013, 03:17:24 AM
Oh my gosh Burning Man is something that is definitely on my bucket list...I hope you have a great time Jenny!
So it's been 11 days since my surgery and my pitch has continued to go up a bit. Here's another small recording (this time two words!!) - I was saying good morning to my two cats (lol I know, I know...)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1srBlbY3UUN
Average pitch was 211hz and the range was 177-257hz.
I really can't wait until I start my vocal exercises and can work in my resonance training into my new voice, I think it's going to sound great in a month or two!
Wow, big change already Abby!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on August 28, 2013, 06:27:09 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on August 28, 2013, 06:27:09 PM
Today I am two weeks post-op and the strength of my voice has come back a lot and it's taking much less effort to actually speak.
Here are two clips of me saying hi to my cat Buddy.
The first one is me just talking without thinking about pitch at all. The average pitch is 180hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1E2rTk4S7Gg
And here is one where I'm raising the pitch, but not with any real effort. The average is 225hz, which is in the female range and required a LOT of effort for me to do prior to the surgery. http://vocaroo.com/i/s0GPmXpiz6SR
As a reminder my normal speaking voice was 125hz and my comfortable female voice was 170hz before surgery. I could do over 200hz but not for any length of time and it caused a lot of strain.
Here are two clips of me saying hi to my cat Buddy.
The first one is me just talking without thinking about pitch at all. The average pitch is 180hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1E2rTk4S7Gg
And here is one where I'm raising the pitch, but not with any real effort. The average is 225hz, which is in the female range and required a LOT of effort for me to do prior to the surgery. http://vocaroo.com/i/s0GPmXpiz6SR
As a reminder my normal speaking voice was 125hz and my comfortable female voice was 170hz before surgery. I could do over 200hz but not for any length of time and it caused a lot of strain.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on August 28, 2013, 07:28:48 PM
Post by: barbie on August 28, 2013, 07:28:48 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 28, 2013, 06:27:09 PM
Today I am two weeks post-op and the strength of my voice has come back a lot and it's taking much less effort to actually speak.
Here are two clips of me saying hi to my cat Buddy.
The first one is me just talking without thinking about pitch at all. The average pitch is 180hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1E2rTk4S7Gg
Yes. It sounds complete female voice to me. I am looking forward to listening you reading several sentences.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on August 28, 2013, 07:35:20 PM
Post by: Jamie D on August 28, 2013, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on August 21, 2013, 06:51:33 AM
My appointment went great! Dr. Kim said everything is healing fine and decided that botox was not necessary. So I can now say a few words a day for the next three weeks!
Here is a voice recording of me saying "hello". This is just speaking normally without trying to raise pitch and without focusing on resonance: http://vocaroo.com/i/s07wITcCLBy1
It sounds pretty androgynous to me (I'm guessing that I'm at maybe 180hz there) but I'm very happy considering how weak my voice is and the fact that I'm only one week post op. The surgeon said that over the next 6-12 months my pitch will slowly rise as the scar tissue heals and tightens.
This is good news that you have healed so well. As Jenny pointed out, you will be able to m ore easily work on your pitch and range now. Can't wait for your 1-month and 6-month recordings!
EDIT: Let me add a suggestion though. Speak naturally.
Don't read from text (that always sounds unnatural to me).
The female voice cannot really be recognized from two-word snippets.
I would like you to tell me, in your own words, about what Korea is like.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: collettemichelle on August 31, 2013, 05:08:32 PM
Post by: collettemichelle on August 31, 2013, 05:08:32 PM
First things first:-A humungous thank you to Jennygirl for starting this thread and for being so open about her experiences.Reading through this has been more than eye opening and encouraging.
This reply is in reference to Lena from Kiev's valid point expressing concern that this procedure may make future intubation (insertion of a breathing tube for surgery) more difficult and/or higher risk.
I posed the question regarding intubation of a patient who has undergone this procedure previously to one the Pulmonologist/Intensivist
on my ICU. He stated that as long as the anesthesiologist was aware then there should be no increased risk nor difficulty.On the proviso that there isn't an increased amount of scaring on the vocal cords themselves.The only adjustment may be to use a smaller endotracheal tube.
This would therefore imply that- because the Yeson clinic technique decreases the chance of scaring of the vocal cords- undergoing this procedure at the Yeson clinic would reduce the risks for those of us with other procedures/surgeries planned.
Again Jennygirl...Thank You very much.
This reply is in reference to Lena from Kiev's valid point expressing concern that this procedure may make future intubation (insertion of a breathing tube for surgery) more difficult and/or higher risk.
I posed the question regarding intubation of a patient who has undergone this procedure previously to one the Pulmonologist/Intensivist
on my ICU. He stated that as long as the anesthesiologist was aware then there should be no increased risk nor difficulty.On the proviso that there isn't an increased amount of scaring on the vocal cords themselves.The only adjustment may be to use a smaller endotracheal tube.
This would therefore imply that- because the Yeson clinic technique decreases the chance of scaring of the vocal cords- undergoing this procedure at the Yeson clinic would reduce the risks for those of us with other procedures/surgeries planned.
Again Jennygirl...Thank You very much.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on September 02, 2013, 08:57:01 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on September 02, 2013, 08:57:01 AM
Quote from: Glitterfly on September 02, 2013, 12:33:42 AMI looked into the "FEMLAR" procedure also mentioned here and that did NOT seem permanent at all...FEMLAR is definitely permanent. What Yeson does is permanent if you don't talk for how long they tell you (give the stitch time to heal). CTA (crico-thyroid approximation) is not permanent because vocal cords stretch out.
Remember that what Yeson does is not enough: you need to learn to change resonance (http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/) too. Learn that first. Quite possibly, you'll find that it's enough.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LilDevilOfPrada on September 02, 2013, 05:14:36 PM
Post by: LilDevilOfPrada on September 02, 2013, 05:14:36 PM
I curious i red the website but I didnt see any mention if doing a thractal(sigh i forgot how to spell it) shave before or after would effect the results.
Just curious as my adams apple is like a my cats tail pointy and noticable.Note shes a japanese bob tail cute as hell she is.
Just curious as my adams apple is like a my cats tail pointy and noticable.Note shes a japanese bob tail cute as hell she is.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LilDevilOfPrada on September 03, 2013, 02:27:50 AM
Post by: LilDevilOfPrada on September 03, 2013, 02:27:50 AM
Quote from: Glitterfly on September 02, 2013, 10:00:17 PM
Hey :)
I received information that Yeson does NOT do tracheal shave. So sorry ^^
You misunderstood me but thank you for the reply. I was asking weather tracheal shave will interfer with his surgerys outcome.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on September 03, 2013, 02:40:49 AM
Post by: Jamie D on September 03, 2013, 02:40:49 AM
Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on September 03, 2013, 02:27:50 AM
You misunderstood me but thank you for the reply. I was asking weather tracheal shave will interfer with his surgerys outcome.
Jennygirl had a tracheal shave with Dr. Ousterhout prior to going to Yeson.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 03, 2013, 10:57:35 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 03, 2013, 10:57:35 AM
Quote from: Glitterfly on September 03, 2013, 02:52:36 AM
Glad he didn't cut her head off...
Yes such a pretty head and squarely placed on her shoulders as well!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LilDevilOfPrada on September 03, 2013, 12:03:13 PM
Post by: LilDevilOfPrada on September 03, 2013, 12:03:13 PM
Quote from: Glitterfly on September 03, 2013, 02:37:30 AM
Oh so sorry :o how did I misread your post, so silly of me~! Yes, tracheal shave can affect the results, which is why it would be good to have your trachea shaved before this surgery. That way it won't ruin the results you get from this surgery afterwards ^^
^^ thanks this is after all important for someone like me who has a large adams apple.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on September 03, 2013, 12:12:18 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on September 03, 2013, 12:12:18 PM
Jennygirl,
It's been a while since you've posted, and I think I recall a lot of people being curious about singing on this tread, (myself included,) so I'm kind of curious how this surgery affects your singing voice.
What's the experience like in that regard once the surgery has healed? Do you have to relearn where all of the notes are? Do you have to relearn the same control or not? How does it affect your tone? Does your singing sound any more female, or does it just sound more like falsetto? Does it make it more shrill, or is it still rich?
I'm just curious. I've been itching to know this for quite a while.
It's been a while since you've posted, and I think I recall a lot of people being curious about singing on this tread, (myself included,) so I'm kind of curious how this surgery affects your singing voice.
What's the experience like in that regard once the surgery has healed? Do you have to relearn where all of the notes are? Do you have to relearn the same control or not? How does it affect your tone? Does your singing sound any more female, or does it just sound more like falsetto? Does it make it more shrill, or is it still rich?
I'm just curious. I've been itching to know this for quite a while.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 04, 2013, 03:29:17 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 04, 2013, 03:29:17 AM
My lovelies... so sorry I have been M.I.A.! I was at burning man for the past week or so .. which was GREAT by the way! I received the most affirming chain of "passing" experiences I have had since beginning transition. Even without really being able to use makeup in such a hot dusty environment, I passed better than ever. Out of the 4 cuties I ended up having some "facetime" with, not one of them believed me at first when I told them I was trans (nor did they care at all!). I know that my voice was a big part of that ;)
Aanyway! It's good to be back!
Carrie- My singing voice is still definitely not even close to what it was before the surgery, but bear in mind I used to be able to sing my heart out as a baritone ;) Also, I haven't been trying to sing at all. They say that you can resume singing somewhere around 4-6 months and I'm not even to the 4 months mark yet. Honestly, I think it will take even longer than 6 to get my singing voice back to where it was in terms of clarity and power. Maybe more than a year. If singing is your career or a HUGE part of your livelihood, I can't yet recommend that this surgery is a good idea. As far as where my chest/head voice intersects, it seems like it's still in close to the same point... Maybe a few semitones higher. My voice sure has changed, though- "falsetto" sounds way different especially in the mid range. And, I'm still noticing improvements on almost a weekly basis! I know if it was a big deal to me and I worked on it, I would probably get there a lot sooner.
About the trach shave- they actually recommend against it because it can weaken the voice box if done improperly (taking too much cartilage away). Basically if you get a trach shave and it messes with your voice or makes it lower, it will impede your results from this surgery. I had mine done about 3 months pre-op and had no such symptoms, my voice seemed to stay exactly the same. I was adamant with Dr. Outserhout about not taking away too much of the thyroid cartilage because my biggest fear was having it negatively impact my voice. Regardless, when I found Yeson, I was very concerned about having had a tracheal shave. I asked Jessie and she told me if it did not affect my voice I would be fine- they have operated on numerous patients who have undergone thyroid cartilage reduction with a normal outcome. It turns out she was right- I am VERY happy with my results, and my topmost frequency capabilities have actually increased from 523hz to 660hz :D :D
If you are going to need a trach shave, I would say get it done as soon as possible by a reputable surgeon who displays an acute attention to detail when it comes to protecting the voice. I would also ask the potential surgeon how many times they have performed the procedure and how many times out of that the patient has reported any voice changes post-op. I think that is the only thing besides being careless during recovery that could possibly negatively affect the outcome of this surgery.
Hope that helps! And I'll say it again- it's great to be back :)
Aanyway! It's good to be back!
Carrie- My singing voice is still definitely not even close to what it was before the surgery, but bear in mind I used to be able to sing my heart out as a baritone ;) Also, I haven't been trying to sing at all. They say that you can resume singing somewhere around 4-6 months and I'm not even to the 4 months mark yet. Honestly, I think it will take even longer than 6 to get my singing voice back to where it was in terms of clarity and power. Maybe more than a year. If singing is your career or a HUGE part of your livelihood, I can't yet recommend that this surgery is a good idea. As far as where my chest/head voice intersects, it seems like it's still in close to the same point... Maybe a few semitones higher. My voice sure has changed, though- "falsetto" sounds way different especially in the mid range. And, I'm still noticing improvements on almost a weekly basis! I know if it was a big deal to me and I worked on it, I would probably get there a lot sooner.
About the trach shave- they actually recommend against it because it can weaken the voice box if done improperly (taking too much cartilage away). Basically if you get a trach shave and it messes with your voice or makes it lower, it will impede your results from this surgery. I had mine done about 3 months pre-op and had no such symptoms, my voice seemed to stay exactly the same. I was adamant with Dr. Outserhout about not taking away too much of the thyroid cartilage because my biggest fear was having it negatively impact my voice. Regardless, when I found Yeson, I was very concerned about having had a tracheal shave. I asked Jessie and she told me if it did not affect my voice I would be fine- they have operated on numerous patients who have undergone thyroid cartilage reduction with a normal outcome. It turns out she was right- I am VERY happy with my results, and my topmost frequency capabilities have actually increased from 523hz to 660hz :D :D
If you are going to need a trach shave, I would say get it done as soon as possible by a reputable surgeon who displays an acute attention to detail when it comes to protecting the voice. I would also ask the potential surgeon how many times they have performed the procedure and how many times out of that the patient has reported any voice changes post-op. I think that is the only thing besides being careless during recovery that could possibly negatively affect the outcome of this surgery.
Hope that helps! And I'll say it again- it's great to be back :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on September 04, 2013, 09:17:03 AM
Post by: Carrie Liz on September 04, 2013, 09:17:03 AM
Okay, thank you Jenny.
No, singing isn't part of my career or anything, but it's definitely one of the things that I do the most often, just on my own in my room, for personal enjoyment. And I'm just curious about it because ever since I lost my unchanged treble singing voice at about age 16, I've been kind of desperate to get it back.
Honestly, if the surgery messed with my singing voice to the point that it didn't sound good anymore, I don't think I'd do it. Wheras if it makes the falsetto sound better, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That's why I was asking. It's not because singing is my livelihood, it's just because it's something that brings me a GREAT deal of personal enjoyment, and I'd be devastated if this surgery messed with it.
Just trying to weigh all of the options and all of the concerns and possible consequences before I consider it.
No, singing isn't part of my career or anything, but it's definitely one of the things that I do the most often, just on my own in my room, for personal enjoyment. And I'm just curious about it because ever since I lost my unchanged treble singing voice at about age 16, I've been kind of desperate to get it back.
Honestly, if the surgery messed with my singing voice to the point that it didn't sound good anymore, I don't think I'd do it. Wheras if it makes the falsetto sound better, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That's why I was asking. It's not because singing is my livelihood, it's just because it's something that brings me a GREAT deal of personal enjoyment, and I'd be devastated if this surgery messed with it.
Just trying to weigh all of the options and all of the concerns and possible consequences before I consider it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 04, 2013, 01:01:10 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 04, 2013, 01:01:10 PM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on September 04, 2013, 09:17:03 AM
Okay, thank you Jenny.
No, singing isn't part of my career or anything, but it's definitely one of the things that I do the most often, just on my own in my room, for personal enjoyment. And I'm just curious about it because ever since I lost my unchanged treble singing voice at about age 16, I've been kind of desperate to get it back.
Honestly, if the surgery messed with my singing voice to the point that it didn't sound good anymore, I don't think I'd do it. Wheras if it makes the falsetto sound better, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That's why I was asking. It's not because singing is my livelihood, it's just because it's something that brings me a GREAT deal of personal enjoyment, and I'd be devastated if this surgery messed with it.
Just trying to weigh all of the options and all of the concerns and possible consequences before I consider it.
For sure! I feel similarly to you, but my speaking voice is way more important to me at this point in my life. When I was younger, I was much more of an active singer.
As time goes on I am sure I will be working on getting it back and then some ;) I'll be sure to keep you updated!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 09:45:24 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 09:45:24 AM
Yay Jennygirl's back, I'm glad you had a great time at burning man!!
I'm just over 3 weeks post op and the strength of my voice has improved a ton.
Today I read the first few sentences of the rainbow passage and was a bit disappointed to see that my natural speaking pitch has only gone up 25hz to 150hz. I knew going into it that it could take 3-6 months for the voice to fully heal and for you to see your final pitch, so I don't mind that it's so low now, I just hope this doesn't mean that I won't see anywhere near the average of 75hz.
That being said, it's also possible that mentally I'm kind of stuck in this lower register since I am so used to the voice I've had. I say this because my voice doesn't allow me to go much lower than 150hz. The lowest noise I can eek out is 115hz, where as before surgery I could go way way lower than my 125hz speaking voice. So looking at my range there is a ton of room above my natural speaking voice and just a little bit below it, rather than it being closer to the middle.
So I also did a recording of me reading part of the rainbow passage but trying to increase my pitch comfortably. It ended up being 190hz. Before surgery my comfortable feminine voice was 170hz. How feminine does this sound to you guys?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0oz79JCGonF
Oh I do want to say that things like clearing my throat and even the few times I've allowed myself to laugh have feminized greatly! I'm really happy with that.
I'm just over 3 weeks post op and the strength of my voice has improved a ton.
Today I read the first few sentences of the rainbow passage and was a bit disappointed to see that my natural speaking pitch has only gone up 25hz to 150hz. I knew going into it that it could take 3-6 months for the voice to fully heal and for you to see your final pitch, so I don't mind that it's so low now, I just hope this doesn't mean that I won't see anywhere near the average of 75hz.
That being said, it's also possible that mentally I'm kind of stuck in this lower register since I am so used to the voice I've had. I say this because my voice doesn't allow me to go much lower than 150hz. The lowest noise I can eek out is 115hz, where as before surgery I could go way way lower than my 125hz speaking voice. So looking at my range there is a ton of room above my natural speaking voice and just a little bit below it, rather than it being closer to the middle.
So I also did a recording of me reading part of the rainbow passage but trying to increase my pitch comfortably. It ended up being 190hz. Before surgery my comfortable feminine voice was 170hz. How feminine does this sound to you guys?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0oz79JCGonF
Oh I do want to say that things like clearing my throat and even the few times I've allowed myself to laugh have feminized greatly! I'm really happy with that.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 06, 2013, 10:01:01 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 06, 2013, 10:01:01 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 09:45:24 AM
How feminine does this sound to you guys?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0oz79JCGonF
Oh I do want to say that things like clearing my throat and even the few times I've allowed myself to laugh have feminized greatly! I'm really happy with that.
Good Lord Abby, you sound terrific!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 10:04:14 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 10:04:14 AM
Quote from: Shantel on September 06, 2013, 10:01:01 AM
Good Lord Abby, you sound terrific!
I hope you're not just saying that to be nice!!!
Here's one a little bit higher, just over 200hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s16DE97YIfcs
This is starting to sound a little bit forced maybe? Not sure which one I think sounds more feminine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 06, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 06, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 10:04:14 AM
I hope you're not just saying that to be nice!!!
Here's one a little bit higher, just over 200hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s16DE97YIfcs
This is starting to sound a little bit forced maybe? Not sure which one I think sounds more feminine.
No, both recordings are terrific! Rather than BS someone and saying things just to be nice I don't respond to posts when I think someone has done a face plant or is delusional. I think you have a wonderful sounding woman's voice Abby! Congratulations!! :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 10:22:16 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Shantel on September 06, 2013, 10:11:44 AM
No, both recordings are terrific! Rather than BS someone and saying things just to be nice I don't respond to posts when I think someone has done a face plant or is delusional. I think you have a wonderful sounding woman's voice Abby! Congratulations!! :eusa_clap:
Well thank you very much! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on September 06, 2013, 10:43:31 AM
Post by: Jamie D on September 06, 2013, 10:43:31 AM
I agree with Shan, Abby. Very feminine-sounding to me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:12:33 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:12:33 PM
You sound terrific, Abby :) Really, you sound like a cis female to me in both examples. The timbre of your voice sounds very soft and natural.
I think you are absolutely right on about training yourself to find and use the higher pitch. I know I had to do the same. Even Dr. Kim himself told me I would have to train the brain to use the higher available frequencies *tapping his finger on his noggin as he said it*. Although I am surprised you can eek out a sound as low as 114hz- the absolute lowest I can do is about 138hz right before going to bed. I think you are still VERY early on in recovery, not even to a month yet!
Either way, when I was at 1 month and officially able to start saying sentences, I found that I was talking to people more in the range of 160hz and my voice would occasionally bottom out which sounded silly. The 210hz range was easily possible, but I had to consciously think about it for some time. This was especially pronounced when talking to people like my mother and other family members in person. Also of note, my mother who is 105lbs and 5'4" has an average pitch of 175hz and sings contra soprano. I'm like, what?!
One thing you will find is that in different situations you will find yourself using different pitches. My speech therapist explained this to me as very normal especially for women. We subconsciously somewhat try to pitch match the person we are talking to, but sometimes when the difference is so great we go the opposite way. I'll give you some examples.... When I am hanging around a bunch of guys, my voice goes up to the 210+ range and I sometimes even shock myself with how high I talk. However when I am hanging out with one of my bestie cisfemale friends who has a quite low voice of 160hz, my voice falls down to 170hz. When I talk to people I don't know, my voice jumps all the way up to 225-230hz. I've noticed that cis gendered females do exactly the same thing. It is normal to have a wide range as a female :)
It sounds to me like you are right on track! Keep us updated, it's wonderful listening to your examples!!
I think you are absolutely right on about training yourself to find and use the higher pitch. I know I had to do the same. Even Dr. Kim himself told me I would have to train the brain to use the higher available frequencies *tapping his finger on his noggin as he said it*. Although I am surprised you can eek out a sound as low as 114hz- the absolute lowest I can do is about 138hz right before going to bed. I think you are still VERY early on in recovery, not even to a month yet!
Either way, when I was at 1 month and officially able to start saying sentences, I found that I was talking to people more in the range of 160hz and my voice would occasionally bottom out which sounded silly. The 210hz range was easily possible, but I had to consciously think about it for some time. This was especially pronounced when talking to people like my mother and other family members in person. Also of note, my mother who is 105lbs and 5'4" has an average pitch of 175hz and sings contra soprano. I'm like, what?!
One thing you will find is that in different situations you will find yourself using different pitches. My speech therapist explained this to me as very normal especially for women. We subconsciously somewhat try to pitch match the person we are talking to, but sometimes when the difference is so great we go the opposite way. I'll give you some examples.... When I am hanging around a bunch of guys, my voice goes up to the 210+ range and I sometimes even shock myself with how high I talk. However when I am hanging out with one of my bestie cisfemale friends who has a quite low voice of 160hz, my voice falls down to 170hz. When I talk to people I don't know, my voice jumps all the way up to 225-230hz. I've noticed that cis gendered females do exactly the same thing. It is normal to have a wide range as a female :)
It sounds to me like you are right on track! Keep us updated, it's wonderful listening to your examples!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:12:33 PM
You sound terrific, Abby :) Really, you sound like a cis female to me in both examples. The timbre of your voice sounds very soft and natural.
I think you are absolutely right on about training yourself to find and use the higher pitch. I know I had to do the same. Even Dr. Kim himself told me I would have to train the brain to use the higher available frequencies *tapping his finger on his noggin as he said it*. Although I am surprised you can eek out a sound as low as 114hz- the absolute lowest I can do is about 138hz right before going to bed. I think you are still VERY early on in recovery, not even to a month yet!
Either way, when I was at 1 month and officially able to start saying sentences, I found that I was talking to people more in the range of 160hz and my voice would occasionally bottom out which sounded silly. The 210hz range was easily possible, but I had to consciously think about it for some time. This was especially pronounced when talking to people like my mother and other family members in person. Also of note, my mother who is 105lbs and 5'4" has an average pitch of 175hz and sings contra soprano. I'm like, what?!
One thing you will find is that in different situations you will find yourself using different pitches. My speech therapist explained this to me as very normal especially for women. We subconsciously somewhat try to pitch match the person we are talking to, but sometimes when the difference is so great we go the opposite way. I'll give you some examples.... When I am hanging around a bunch of guys, my voice goes up to the 210+ range and I sometimes even shock myself with how high I talk. However when I am hanging out with one of my bestie cisfemale friends who has a quite low voice of 160hz, my voice falls down to 170hz. When I talk to people I don't know, my voice jumps all the way up to 225-230hz. I've noticed that cis gendered females do exactly the same thing. It is normal to have a wide range as a female :)
It sounds to me like you are right on track! Keep us updated, it's wonderful listening to your examples!!
Thank you for this post - it's very reassuring!! And yeah I know I'm not even a month post op so I have a long way to go healing wise I'm just nervous about the passability of my new voice since I will actually be using it regularly in public in about a week.
And yeah I thought I remember Dr. Kim saying something about that as well, and it does make sense. As far as how low I can go, keep in mind my pitch started out 15hz lower than yours, and also Dr. Kim didn't tie my vocal chords up as much as yours I don't think. You said he did almost 1/2? He did a teeny bit more than 1/3 for me. I asked him and he said the 75hz average was for 1/3 so I was fine with him just doing that.
So I have a question about where you were at when you re-read the rainbow passage at 1 month (it was one month right, or was it two?) for the before/after video. Did you consciously try to raise the pitch at all or mentally were you at the point where you just naturally found a higher but comfortable pitch?
Edit: Also, you've started the vocal exercises they gave you, right? How has that been going? Has it been helpful?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
So I have a question about where you were at when you re-read the rainbow passage at 1 month (it was one month right, or was it two?) for the before/after video. Did you consciously try to raise the pitch at all or mentally were you at the point where you just naturally found a higher but comfortable pitch?
Edit: Also, you've started the vocal exercises they gave you, right? How has that been going? Has it been helpful?
Happy to give you some reassurance Abby :) Yes I was consciously raising the pitch at that point but to a comfortable level. My speaking voice face to face with other people was quite different. Now the two are much closer, but my pitch when reading the rainbow passage is still quite a bit higher than my conversational voice.
As far as the vocal exercises, yes I have been doing them and yes they do help! A lot! My max upper frequency has somewhat plateaued at E5 660hz but my voice is also still doing the little crack thing when I get up that high, so I know when my vocal cords continue to regain strength I will likely be able to go even higher. Before starting the exercises, the crack was happening around A4/Bb4 or 450hz. Quite a difference!
Also worth noting though is that as pitch goes up linearly as interpreted by our brains, the difference in hz also increases. For example, the hz difference of a semitone at C3 - C#3 is 8hz. The semitone difference at C5 - C#5 is 31hz. Basically what I'm getting at is even though my max frequency has gone up by 210hz since the surgery, it's much less of a difference than it would be in lower registers. Perceived note pitch is a linear scale, whereas the relative frequency in hz is on an exponential scale.
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
EDIT: in case you are interested, my absolute range pre-op was D2 - C5 (72hz - 523hz). Now it is C#3 - E5 (138hz - 660hz).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 12:48:29 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 12:48:29 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
Happy to give you some reassurance Abby :) Yes I was consciously raising the pitch at that point but to a comfortable level. My speaking voice face to face with other people was quite different. Now the two are much closer, but my pitch when reading the rainbow passage is still quite a bit higher than my conversational voice.
As far as the vocal exercises, yes I have been doing them and yes they do help! A lot! My max upper frequency has somewhat plateaued at E5 660hz but my voice is also still doing the little crack thing when I get up that high, so I know when my vocal cords continue to regain strength I will likely be able to go even higher. Before starting the exercises, the crack was happening around A4/Bb4 or 450hz. Quite a difference!
Also worth noting though is that as pitch goes up linearly as interpreted by our brains, the difference in hz also increases. For example, the hz difference of a semitone at C3 - C#3 is 8hz. The semitone difference at C5 - C#5 is 31hz. Basically what I'm getting at is even though my max frequency has gone up by 210hz since the surgery, it's much less of a difference than it would be in lower registers. Perceived note pitch is a linear scale, whereas the relative frequency in hz is on an exponential scale.
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
Wow that's interesting. So if I'm understanding you correctly (I'm not very musically inclined) the perceived difference between say 125hz and 175hz is much greater than the perceived difference between 175hz and 225hz?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:58:57 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:58:57 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 12:48:29 PM
Wow that's interesting. So if I'm understanding you correctly (I'm not very musically inclined) the perceived difference between say 125hz and 175hz is much greater than the perceived difference between 175hz and 225hz?
Exactamundo :) 6 perceptible semitones vs 4 in that case.
I'm pretty sure that not even the musically inclined pay attention to this sort of stuff. It's more apt for the physics inclined ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 09, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 09, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
How's it going, Abby? If my calculations are correct you've got only a few days left of limiting conversation? So eager to hear more :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 09, 2013, 01:06:16 PM
Post by: Shantel on September 09, 2013, 01:06:16 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 09, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
How's it going, Abby? If my calculations are correct you've got only a few days left of limiting conversation? So eager to hear more :)
Me too along with everyone else!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 10, 2013, 07:32:18 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 10, 2013, 07:32:18 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 09, 2013, 01:02:49 PM
How's it going, Abby? If my calculations are correct you've got only a few days left of limiting conversation? So eager to hear more :)
Yep, tomorrow I can start speaking more.
I'm still at just about a 25hz increase in my normal speaking voice since surgery. I'm hoping that it goes up (it hasn't gone up since I started recording a couple sentences each day) but at this point I'll be ecstatic if I see even just a 50hz increase. I'll give it the full 3-6 months healing time but I was maybe a little bit too optimistic about how much it would increase a month after surgery. I feel no more confident using my voice since my male range is still there and it's just as easy as ever to slip into it, which is the entire reason I sought surgery. But again, 3-6 months is the full healing time so I will reserve my final judgment until then when hopefully things have improved.
Worst case scenario it doesn't go any higher from here, and as far as voice surgeries go that being the worst case scenario is hardly a bad thing. It just means I spent a lot of money for a minor increase in pitch. But at least my voice is "fine", unlike the risks of other voice surgeries.
I'll probably be getting an e-mail from Jesse soon to send in my "after" recording. I'm not sure if I want to do it in my normal speaking voice or one where I try to raise the pitch. I'm leaning towards the former since they take your normal recording and not your feminine one for the "before" part of the video. So my normal voice went from 125-150hz and my feminine voice from 170-195. If I were to use my feminine voice it would seem like a 70hz increase but that really isn't the case.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 10, 2013, 01:36:16 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 10, 2013, 01:36:16 PM
I think you are still well within the range of normal recovery. Maybe it's just taking your vocal muscles a bit longer to re-contract after being sutured together? I'm sure Jessie will have some answers for you. I remember she told me it was normal for patients to sound almost the same right after the procedure (sometimes even somewhat mono-tone), and that the voice increases in pitch greatly over the next 2 months and then following that a little bit more to the year mark. I doubt you've any reason to be worried about a lacking result!
At first, I remember having to concentrate on pitch pretty regularly because I kept bottoming out at 140-145hz which could have also been due to the botox injection at 1 week post op. Additionally, my brain did not want to initially accept the higher pitch range as normal. Maybe it was indeed the difference of tying off 1/2 of the vocal cords vs 1/3. I did also tell Dr. Kim to air on the side of aggressive, mainly due to worries I had about tracheal shave weakening the voice box. I told him I would be fine if it came out a little higher than average, having a feeling the extra boost would do no harm. Post op after adjusting to my voice, I ended up with a very average result- at least 60hz up "naturally" and 75hz+ easily when thinking about it.
140hz normal speaking to 200hz
162hz consciously raising pitch to 230hz
73hz bottom out to 138hz
523hz top out to 660hz
That is where I am at now. In my case, I haven't noticed a significant change in my fundamental pitch from the first day I could say words, but that is rather rare and may have been attributable to my obsessiveness about recovery ;) I drank water like a FISH! The water bottle was always near to me and half full for the first 4 weeks post op. It was the only thing I could do to fend off coughing fits from a cold I caught shortly after returning home.
From what Jessie told me, you may not even notice much of a change until you start vocal exercises at 2 months. Hang in there and be very kind to your cords.. Drink a TON of water and try not to make low notes at all. I was kind of afraid to use a lower range at all for fear that it might stretch something or lessen the result.
Either way, the recordings you have posted so far have been great! And I know I'm not alone when I say I am looking forward to hearing more :)
At first, I remember having to concentrate on pitch pretty regularly because I kept bottoming out at 140-145hz which could have also been due to the botox injection at 1 week post op. Additionally, my brain did not want to initially accept the higher pitch range as normal. Maybe it was indeed the difference of tying off 1/2 of the vocal cords vs 1/3. I did also tell Dr. Kim to air on the side of aggressive, mainly due to worries I had about tracheal shave weakening the voice box. I told him I would be fine if it came out a little higher than average, having a feeling the extra boost would do no harm. Post op after adjusting to my voice, I ended up with a very average result- at least 60hz up "naturally" and 75hz+ easily when thinking about it.
140hz normal speaking to 200hz
162hz consciously raising pitch to 230hz
73hz bottom out to 138hz
523hz top out to 660hz
That is where I am at now. In my case, I haven't noticed a significant change in my fundamental pitch from the first day I could say words, but that is rather rare and may have been attributable to my obsessiveness about recovery ;) I drank water like a FISH! The water bottle was always near to me and half full for the first 4 weeks post op. It was the only thing I could do to fend off coughing fits from a cold I caught shortly after returning home.
From what Jessie told me, you may not even notice much of a change until you start vocal exercises at 2 months. Hang in there and be very kind to your cords.. Drink a TON of water and try not to make low notes at all. I was kind of afraid to use a lower range at all for fear that it might stretch something or lessen the result.
Either way, the recordings you have posted so far have been great! And I know I'm not alone when I say I am looking forward to hearing more :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 11, 2013, 05:13:23 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 11, 2013, 05:13:23 AM
Thanks for the response Jenny!
My post sounded a bit "complain-y" on second read and I really am not disappointed with where I am now as much as I am eager for it to fully heal. The fact that my voice isn't exactly where I want it to be is perfectly understandable and acceptable especially since I was told multiple times to give it several months to heal.
So I'm just going to continue taking it easy with my voice and letting it recover. When thinking about it my body does tend to take a little while for things to heal, so that could be part of the reason. And I have been following the aftercare instructions as closely as possible! I eat healthy and literally drink nothing but water, no caffeine, no alcohol, nothing. My Spiro and another (non hrt) med I take tend to be dehydrating so I down probably a gallon of water a day easily, and I quit smoking weed a few weeks before surgery and don't plan on doing it again until maybe 6 months from now, maybe.
So I'm just going to give it time. Again thanks for the reassurance, you've been so informative and helpful with all of this!
My post sounded a bit "complain-y" on second read and I really am not disappointed with where I am now as much as I am eager for it to fully heal. The fact that my voice isn't exactly where I want it to be is perfectly understandable and acceptable especially since I was told multiple times to give it several months to heal.
So I'm just going to continue taking it easy with my voice and letting it recover. When thinking about it my body does tend to take a little while for things to heal, so that could be part of the reason. And I have been following the aftercare instructions as closely as possible! I eat healthy and literally drink nothing but water, no caffeine, no alcohol, nothing. My Spiro and another (non hrt) med I take tend to be dehydrating so I down probably a gallon of water a day easily, and I quit smoking weed a few weeks before surgery and don't plan on doing it again until maybe 6 months from now, maybe.
So I'm just going to give it time. Again thanks for the reassurance, you've been so informative and helpful with all of this!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 12, 2013, 01:32:40 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 12, 2013, 01:32:40 AM
Glad to help! You are welcome :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 12, 2013, 03:00:54 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 12, 2013, 03:00:54 PM
Hi Jenny,
I just wanted to thank you so much for your informative posts throughout your recovery. It's really been helpful to me. I, too, was skeptical of voice surgery for the longest time because there was such a stigma of bad results in the community. Hearing your results, as well as Abby's, has given me confidence that the Yeson technique is finally what I've been waiting for.
It's so awesome that you have taken the time for so long to continue updating people with your progress and answering questions. I'm sure you can understand just how helpful it is to the community. I did the same thing when I had my SRS (you can find those posts if you click through my post history) and I'm so glad you did the same with your voice surgery, especially with it being so unknown in the community at this point.
I am actually very likely going to be booking an appointment for the surgery with Yeson for late October or early November. The voice is the last thing that's holding me back in my life, and even with the risks I feel it's necessary. I'm going to follow your lead and keep a record of my progress here on Susans to benefit the community.
Thanks!
Sarah
I just wanted to thank you so much for your informative posts throughout your recovery. It's really been helpful to me. I, too, was skeptical of voice surgery for the longest time because there was such a stigma of bad results in the community. Hearing your results, as well as Abby's, has given me confidence that the Yeson technique is finally what I've been waiting for.
It's so awesome that you have taken the time for so long to continue updating people with your progress and answering questions. I'm sure you can understand just how helpful it is to the community. I did the same thing when I had my SRS (you can find those posts if you click through my post history) and I'm so glad you did the same with your voice surgery, especially with it being so unknown in the community at this point.
I am actually very likely going to be booking an appointment for the surgery with Yeson for late October or early November. The voice is the last thing that's holding me back in my life, and even with the risks I feel it's necessary. I'm going to follow your lead and keep a record of my progress here on Susans to benefit the community.
Thanks!
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on September 12, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
Post by: kathyp on September 12, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
Wow! Abby you really sound great so soon after surgery.
O.K., in 36 hours I will boarding a flight to Seoul for my Yeson experience. My question to the both of you
Jenny & Abby, looking back would you recommend the 1/2 " more aggressive approach or the safer 1/3",
and do you really have that much say in the matter with Dr Kim?
Thanks, Kathy
O.K., in 36 hours I will boarding a flight to Seoul for my Yeson experience. My question to the both of you
Jenny & Abby, looking back would you recommend the 1/2 " more aggressive approach or the safer 1/3",
and do you really have that much say in the matter with Dr Kim?
Thanks, Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 12, 2013, 11:17:59 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 12, 2013, 11:17:59 PM
Hey kathyp, please keep us updated as much as you can during your recovery, if at all possible! I'm trying to book the surgery for the end of October and I'd love to hear how it goes for you. Good luck with everything. I can't wait to hear your new voice!
Sarah
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: smile_jma on September 13, 2013, 12:42:03 AM
Post by: smile_jma on September 13, 2013, 12:42:03 AM
Quote from: SarahR on September 12, 2013, 11:17:59 PM
Hey kathyp, please keep us updated as much as you can during your recovery, if at all possible! I'm trying to book the surgery for the end of October and I'd love to hear how it goes for you. Good luck with everything. I can't wait to hear your new voice!
Sarah
Good luck to you, too~ If you can, you should go sightseeing here, too. Might be chilly, but it's still a beautiful place when it's not raining.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 13, 2013, 02:26:28 AM
Post by: sarahb on September 13, 2013, 02:26:28 AM
Quote from: smile_jma on September 13, 2013, 12:42:03 AM
Good luck to you, too~ If you can, you should go sightseeing here, too. Might be chilly, but it's still a beautiful place when it's not raining.
Thank you! Yeah, definitely, I can't wait to check out Seoul.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 13, 2013, 04:27:04 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 13, 2013, 04:27:04 AM
Quote from: kathyp on September 12, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
Wow! Abby you really sound great so soon after surgery.
O.K., in 36 hours I will boarding a flight to Seoul for my Yeson experience. My question to the both of you
Jenny & Abby, looking back would you recommend the 1/2 " more aggressive approach or the safer 1/3",
and do you really have that much say in the matter with Dr Kim?
Thanks, Kathy
Woowooo!!!
I would definitely just ask Dr. Kim what he thinks. His decision will be based on your pre-op consultation/exam, where your current fundamental frequency stands, and any other concerns you may have. He is very perceptive and listens very intently to what you want. I have a feeling that if you were say something he doesn't understand, he will let you know instead of just saying "uh-huh" like most people do when they can't seem to translate. I had no problem communicating with him.. his english seemed just fine :) If that is a concern you have, then absolutely voice it!
Congrats and keep us updated!! Excited for you!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 13, 2013, 12:58:36 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 13, 2013, 12:58:36 PM
Jennygirl, are you going to be doing more video updates to show how your voice has been progressing? It's been just about 4 months now, right?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 13, 2013, 01:01:31 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 13, 2013, 01:01:31 PM
Yes you are right, perhaps another video is in order. To me, the only real difference has been a slight bit of range increase and a big increase in volume :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on September 14, 2013, 03:23:21 PM
Post by: barbie on September 14, 2013, 03:23:21 PM
Quote from: SarahR on September 12, 2013, 11:17:59 PM
Hey kathyp, please keep us updated as much as you can during your recovery, if at all possible! I'm trying to book the surgery for the end of October and I'd love to hear how it goes for you. Good luck with everything. I can't wait to hear your new voice!
Sarah
The end of October is a nice period to visit Seoul. Not cold and not hot. The sky will be blue, and you can enjoy colorful fall leaves.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on September 15, 2013, 08:51:26 PM
Post by: kathyp on September 15, 2013, 08:51:26 PM
Hello
Thanks all for your encouragement, I am in Seoul now in a few hours I have my pre-op exam.
If anyone is interested we are staying at one of the recommended places on Yeson's list, Jin studio's (Airbnb)
it costs $832USD for 10 days. It's a studio apt. with private bath, wifi & kitchen. It is supposed to be within walking distance to Yeson.
Kathy
Thanks all for your encouragement, I am in Seoul now in a few hours I have my pre-op exam.
If anyone is interested we are staying at one of the recommended places on Yeson's list, Jin studio's (Airbnb)
it costs $832USD for 10 days. It's a studio apt. with private bath, wifi & kitchen. It is supposed to be within walking distance to Yeson.
Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 16, 2013, 05:08:53 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 16, 2013, 05:08:53 AM
Quote from: kathyp on September 15, 2013, 08:51:26 PM
Hello
Thanks all for your encouragement, I am in Seoul now in a few hours I have my pre-op exam.
If anyone is interested we are staying at one of the recommended places on Yeson's list, Jin studio's (Airbnb)
it costs $832USD for 10 days. It's a studio apt. with private bath, wifi & kitchen. It is supposed to be within walking distance to Yeson.
Kathy
Awesome, Kathy. Sounds like a cheaper and better option than what I had!
Have fun at your pre-op consult & exam, and say hello to Jessie for me :)
I am now officially at 4 months post op. Feeling better about my voice every week. I've even started to hum/sing some stuff which seems to have gotten a lot better. A word of advice, get plenty of sleep when recovering from this surgery... It makes a huge impact on voice quality for the day, I've noticed.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on September 16, 2013, 07:10:55 AM
Post by: kathyp on September 16, 2013, 07:10:55 AM
Hi
Jenny I said Hi for you, they smiled fondly.
Dr Kim is super patient and thorough. He says I will need 1/3 inch removal and I should go from 139Hz to
218Hz. I do have a Tremor so Botox and an extra week of silence, my wife is ecstatic!
Seoul is a pleasant surprise for us. The city is super clean, very safe at least in Gangham and the people
are really friendly when you engage them otherwise they mind their own business. I am a 6'2" blond hair giant
over here and I really don't get overt stares. The only big obstacle for us has been finding our way around without Google Maps. Sim cards for foreign visitor phones are new and not readily available.
Question for Jenny, was the tour Yeson arranges for you worth it. The reason I ask is we have to pay extra (73.00USD)for my wife.
Thanks, Kathy
Jenny I said Hi for you, they smiled fondly.
Dr Kim is super patient and thorough. He says I will need 1/3 inch removal and I should go from 139Hz to
218Hz. I do have a Tremor so Botox and an extra week of silence, my wife is ecstatic!
Seoul is a pleasant surprise for us. The city is super clean, very safe at least in Gangham and the people
are really friendly when you engage them otherwise they mind their own business. I am a 6'2" blond hair giant
over here and I really don't get overt stares. The only big obstacle for us has been finding our way around without Google Maps. Sim cards for foreign visitor phones are new and not readily available.
Question for Jenny, was the tour Yeson arranges for you worth it. The reason I ask is we have to pay extra (73.00USD)for my wife.
Thanks, Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on September 16, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
Post by: barbie on September 16, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
Quote from: kathyp on September 16, 2013, 07:10:55 AM
The only big obstacle for us has been finding our way around without Google Maps. Sim cards for foreign visitor phones are new and not readily available.
You could rent a smartphone at the airport. For example, http://www.skroaming.com/en/main.asp
The price seems reasonable to me. I also rely on smartphone when visiting Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: NIP on September 16, 2013, 08:01:12 AM
Post by: NIP on September 16, 2013, 08:01:12 AM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on September 02, 2013, 08:57:01 AM
FEMLAR is definitely permanent. What Yeson does is permanent if you don't talk for how long they tell you (give the stitch time to heal). CTA (crico-thyroid approximation) is not permanent because vocal cords stretch out.
Remember that what Yeson does is not enough: you need to learn to change resonance (http://lena.kiev.ua/voice/) too. Learn that first. Quite possibly, you'll find that it's enough.
That technique detailed on your website really interests me and sounds highly intuitive in how it produces results, but I'm having difficultly progressing in my ability to do anything but delay the descent of the larynx. I can't seem to move from visualising the location of the muscles I'm supposed to be using to actually using them on demand. I don't know whether I'm over-tensing. I often seem to be holding my breath. Could you describe what I'm supposed to feel and where I'm supposed to feel it?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on September 16, 2013, 08:11:10 AM
Post by: barbie on September 16, 2013, 08:11:10 AM
Quote from: kathyp on September 16, 2013, 07:10:55 AM
Question for Jenny, was the tour Yeson arranges for you worth it. The reason I ask is we have to pay extra (73.00USD)for my wife.
As you know, Sep 19 is a national holiday (a kind of Thanksgiving day) here, and most stores will be closed. The real population of Seoul will be decreased to more than a half between Sep 18 and 20, as 35 millions nationwide (70% of the entire Korea population) will leave for their hometown to meet their family and relatives. I think you have better tour the city on those days. The price seems reasonable to me.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on September 16, 2013, 08:22:24 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on September 16, 2013, 08:22:24 AM
Quote from: NIP on September 16, 2013, 08:01:12 AMI'm having difficultly progressing in my ability to do anything but delay the descent of the larynx. I can't seem to move from visualising the location of the muscles I'm supposed to be using to actually using them on demand. I don't know whether I'm over-tensing. I often seem to be holding my breath.If you can delay the descent of the larynx then you do it by using the right muscles. It's the same muscles which pull larynx up when you swallow or gargle.
Quote from: NIP on September 16, 2013, 08:01:12 AMCould you describe what I'm supposed to feel and where I'm supposed to feel it?If you see in a mirror that your Adam's apple moves up then you do the right thing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 16, 2013, 09:00:23 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 16, 2013, 09:00:23 AM
Quote from: kathyp on September 16, 2013, 07:10:55 AM
Hi
Jenny I said Hi for you, they smiled fondly.
Dr Kim is super patient and thorough. He says I will need 1/3 inch removal and I should go from 139Hz to
218Hz. I do have a Tremor so Botox and an extra week of silence, my wife is ecstatic!
Seoul is a pleasant surprise for us. The city is super clean, very safe at least in Gangham and the people
are really friendly when you engage them otherwise they mind their own business. I am a 6'2" blond hair giant
over here and I really don't get overt stares. The only big obstacle for us has been finding our way around without Google Maps. Sim cards for foreign visitor phones are new and not readily available.
Question for Jenny, was the tour Yeson arranges for you worth it. The reason I ask is we have to pay extra (73.00USD)for my wife.
Thanks, Kathy
Hi Kathy,
I am so glad you got to Seoul OK! I was also very very impressed with how clean and safe the city is!
As for phones, you can rent a wireless hotspot (called like an egg wifi or something) but from what I could tell you had to do it in advance and could only pick it up at the airport. I forgot to do that, and was really regretting it. I too was having difficulty getting around without data on my phone so I sucked it up and added a Global Data plan to my phone since I would only have to deal with it for a month. With Verizon, it was $25 for 200mb of data which was plenty since I was just using it for google maps and quick google searches. If you don't have Verizon or Sprint that won't work though because AT&T and T-mobile use a different type of cell service (GSM compared to CDMA in South Korea) for their phones.
As for the tour, I think it would be worth $80 since it's such a small group of people. For me it was supposed to only be 2 people but one person didn't show so I had a personal tour with my own guide and driver! It was really nice because I got to see all of the typical touristy things you would want to do in Seoul without having to worry about getting around due to the language barrier and lack of ability to talk.
Good luck with the surgery, I hope it goes well!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 16, 2013, 01:17:29 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 16, 2013, 01:17:29 PM
Oh and an update on my voice:
My natural speaking pitch has gone up over the last week! I don't know why I got so worked up last week lol, just me being impatient I guess. Anyway, on Sept. 9th I was at 152hz, and today I am at 166hz. So the total increase one month and two days post-op is 41hz. :)
The quality of my voice continues to improve, but I still can't say more than a couple sentences at a time before my voice starts to crack a little bit and the volume begins to fade. The after-care instructions say to continue to limit use of my voice for another month, at which point I should hopefully be able to hold a full conversation. I can't wait for that because I've been DYING to see my therapist but there's no way I can do an hour session with her until then.
So yeah I am very happy with where I am at one month post-op (I seriously can not believe it's been over a month already!!) and I am looking forward to the next couple of months as it continues to heal. My natural speaking pitch is definitely up out of the male range and into the gender neutral range now which makes me a lot more comfortable with using my voice in public. And knowing it's only going to get better from here is amazing!
My natural speaking pitch has gone up over the last week! I don't know why I got so worked up last week lol, just me being impatient I guess. Anyway, on Sept. 9th I was at 152hz, and today I am at 166hz. So the total increase one month and two days post-op is 41hz. :)
The quality of my voice continues to improve, but I still can't say more than a couple sentences at a time before my voice starts to crack a little bit and the volume begins to fade. The after-care instructions say to continue to limit use of my voice for another month, at which point I should hopefully be able to hold a full conversation. I can't wait for that because I've been DYING to see my therapist but there's no way I can do an hour session with her until then.
So yeah I am very happy with where I am at one month post-op (I seriously can not believe it's been over a month already!!) and I am looking forward to the next couple of months as it continues to heal. My natural speaking pitch is definitely up out of the male range and into the gender neutral range now which makes me a lot more comfortable with using my voice in public. And knowing it's only going to get better from here is amazing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 16, 2013, 01:47:53 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 16, 2013, 01:47:53 PM
That's great to hear Abby! I hope it continues to get better over the next few weeks. Keep us updated :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 16, 2013, 02:24:47 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 16, 2013, 02:24:47 PM
Seconded, that is awesome to hear Abby :) Keep up the great recovery!
Kathy, my friend came with and had to pay the extra 75 and she seemed to think it was worth it. We had a pretty good time just being driven around all over the city. I would do it earlier on in your trip and then that way if you want to go back somewhere to shop or sightsee more you know where to go. I did mine pretty late for some reason, and we had already been to some of the places- which felt kind of redundant. Either way, yes it was worth it! Sheesh, all this talk is really making me want to go back! I would love to visit Insadong again. I found a woman who makes hand crafted ceramic jewelry and it's been my favorite accessories ever since going.
Super excited to hear your results as well Kathy! Good luck at your surgery tomorrow!!
Kathy, my friend came with and had to pay the extra 75 and she seemed to think it was worth it. We had a pretty good time just being driven around all over the city. I would do it earlier on in your trip and then that way if you want to go back somewhere to shop or sightsee more you know where to go. I did mine pretty late for some reason, and we had already been to some of the places- which felt kind of redundant. Either way, yes it was worth it! Sheesh, all this talk is really making me want to go back! I would love to visit Insadong again. I found a woman who makes hand crafted ceramic jewelry and it's been my favorite accessories ever since going.
Super excited to hear your results as well Kathy! Good luck at your surgery tomorrow!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 16, 2013, 08:31:24 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 16, 2013, 08:31:24 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 06, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
in case you are interested, my absolute range pre-op was D2 - C5 (72hz - 523hz). Now it is C#3 - E5 (138hz - 660hz).
When you say your minimum and maximum range, what exactly do you mean? Is your max like the highest you can squeak out a noise? I ask because I tested myself and I found my range to be 100Hz - 700Hz (pretty much exactly even at each end, which is weird). That is me rumbling the absolute lowest I can, and the highest-pitch squeak I can manage. I'm a little dubious about my max range being 700Hz though, so I'm wondering if we're talking about the same thing. Now, I can't consistently go from 100Hz smoothly all the way up to 700Hz, but if I pause in between I can work my way up to it. Does that sound right? I'm thinking maybe I didn't have an accurate measurement.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 17, 2013, 04:45:13 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 17, 2013, 04:45:13 AM
Exactly, the highest I can go doing a sweep from lowest to highest and back down... A siren I guess some might call it.
It sounds like you're doing an accurate measurement. When I say 660hz max that is the absolute highest pitch I can make. I would loooove to be able to go higher and I'm working on it. I think it's just going to take practice and some vocal weight lifting to fully realize it. I could definitely be lifting heavier weights, but I really don't want to overdo!
It sounds like you're doing an accurate measurement. When I say 660hz max that is the absolute highest pitch I can make. I would loooove to be able to go higher and I'm working on it. I think it's just going to take practice and some vocal weight lifting to fully realize it. I could definitely be lifting heavier weights, but I really don't want to overdo!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LizMarie on September 18, 2013, 10:45:06 AM
Post by: LizMarie on September 18, 2013, 10:45:06 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 06, 2013, 10:04:14 AM
I hope you're not just saying that to be nice!!!
Here's one a little bit higher, just over 200hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s16DE97YIfcs
This is starting to sound a little bit forced maybe? Not sure which one I think sounds more feminine.
Abby, you have a beautiful voice! It reminds me of some of my favorite jazz singers like Diana Krall. :)
Jenny, your successes here caused me to write to the Yeson clinic explaining my specific medical issues. You see, in 1996 I had a laryngoplasty to insert the old style teflon inserts because one vocal cord became paralyzed after chemotherapy and surgery removed a cancerous tumor that was wrapped around the left vocal cord nerve. So that vocal cord of mine is completely not retrainable. (To be retrained you have to have muscle control and the nerve there is gone.)
I'm waiting for an answer and I realize my situation would be non-standard. I never had much resonance in my voice and have been able to remove almost all of it with ease, but increasing pitch has been difficult for me and even more than a few minutes ends up being problematic so surgery is the only way I can increase that pitch.
I was previously considering Dr. Thomas in Oregon but this seems to focus exactly on what I need, pitch, not overall voice change, plus your results and Abby's results are simply fantastic. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on September 19, 2013, 09:42:12 AM
Post by: kathyp on September 19, 2013, 09:42:12 AM
Hi
Well I am 2 1/2 days now. The surgery went well, I got there at 8 a.m and stayed until 6pm. We walked back to our apartment and voila! That in retrospect was the easy part the hard part is not TALKING and not COUGHING! Abby now I know how you must have felt when you awoke to find yourself talking! I just lightly coughed a little while go and I am feeling really pessimistic that I blew it, I know I'm #2 out of 200.LOL!
Were you, Jenny and Abby completely silent and cough-less?
Anyways, to all who are contemplating going to Yeson, I must add to the FYI that the clinic is top notch,
first class environment. The day of surgery your recovery room is like a hotel room with couch, refer, snacks
but no mini bar :), so if anyone accompanies you they will be comfortable as well. After FFS in Peru this was a dream!
Thanks for the heads up about the Moon Holiday, your right it's a ghost town around here. I think it's fascinating for everyone to take a long weekend because it's a full moon. I was told that if you pray to the moon during this time you will get what you want.
I finally came to the same conclusion as Abby did that any Sim card issue needs to be dealt with at the airport. I do have Verizon so I'll do the same.
Reading about the evolving progress of Jenny and Abby keeps me motivated. Thank you for staying on the forum and responding.
Kathy
Well I am 2 1/2 days now. The surgery went well, I got there at 8 a.m and stayed until 6pm. We walked back to our apartment and voila! That in retrospect was the easy part the hard part is not TALKING and not COUGHING! Abby now I know how you must have felt when you awoke to find yourself talking! I just lightly coughed a little while go and I am feeling really pessimistic that I blew it, I know I'm #2 out of 200.LOL!
Were you, Jenny and Abby completely silent and cough-less?
Anyways, to all who are contemplating going to Yeson, I must add to the FYI that the clinic is top notch,
first class environment. The day of surgery your recovery room is like a hotel room with couch, refer, snacks
but no mini bar :), so if anyone accompanies you they will be comfortable as well. After FFS in Peru this was a dream!
Thanks for the heads up about the Moon Holiday, your right it's a ghost town around here. I think it's fascinating for everyone to take a long weekend because it's a full moon. I was told that if you pray to the moon during this time you will get what you want.
I finally came to the same conclusion as Abby did that any Sim card issue needs to be dealt with at the airport. I do have Verizon so I'll do the same.
Reading about the evolving progress of Jenny and Abby keeps me motivated. Thank you for staying on the forum and responding.
Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 19, 2013, 10:20:43 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 19, 2013, 10:20:43 AM
Good report Kathy, glad it went well for you! Jennygirl has got to be Yeson's best outside sales rep huh?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 19, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 19, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: kathyp on September 19, 2013, 09:42:12 AM
Hi
Well I am 2 1/2 days now. The surgery went well, I got there at 8 a.m and stayed until 6pm. We walked back to our apartment and voila! That in retrospect was the easy part the hard part is not TALKING and not COUGHING! Abby now I know how you must have felt when you awoke to find yourself talking! I just lightly coughed a little while go and I am feeling really pessimistic that I blew it, I know I'm #2 out of 200.LOL!
Were you, Jenny and Abby completely silent and cough-less?
Anyways, to all who are contemplating going to Yeson, I must add to the FYI that the clinic is top notch,
first class environment. The day of surgery your recovery room is like a hotel room with couch, refer, snacks
but no mini bar :), so if anyone accompanies you they will be comfortable as well. After FFS in Peru this was a dream!
Thanks for the heads up about the Moon Holiday, your right it's a ghost town around here. I think it's fascinating for everyone to take a long weekend because it's a full moon. I was told that if you pray to the moon during this time you will get what you want.
I finally came to the same conclusion as Abby did that any Sim card issue needs to be dealt with at the airport. I do have Verizon so I'll do the same.
Reading about the evolving progress of Jenny and Abby keeps me motivated. Thank you for staying on the forum and responding.
Kathy
I'm so glad it went well!!
I was pretty much completely coughless for the first 7 days, yes. Make sure you take the medicine they give you religiously (I love love love how they separated it into packets for each dose, so convenient!) because it really helps keep the phlegm down. For me, the first 3 days or so were the worst, so keep a bottle of water with you at all times in case you feel some phlegm in your throat. For me the "open mouth" coughing technique they showed you plus the water worked well enough to keep me from coughing.
As for talking, I accidentally said two words a couple of days after the surgery and was convinced I ruined everything! But it turned out fine, after that I just made sure I was super super careful not to talk.
Please keep us updated on your recovery!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 19, 2013, 01:35:53 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 19, 2013, 01:35:53 PM
I had a few minor coughs early on, too. There was nothing I could do. Then I was so angry that I'd done it I almost hit myself, lol :P
I was super concerned and asked Jessie if I was screwed, and she said I should be fine as long as I haven't tried to talk and there was no sudden pain... That is the biggie to look out for apparently! Still, out of the hundreds of people they've treated with this procedure, only one has needed to come back for a fix... And that was because they tried to yell on day 3 or 4 or something and it affected the suture tying the cords together. Yikes, that must have been painful!
Glad to hear everything is going excellently for you as well, kathy :D I agree, their facility is great and very comforting. I remember having absolutely no doubts that what I was doing was a good idea. Barely any nerves at all. It sounds like others are having similar experiences, which is good!
I was super concerned and asked Jessie if I was screwed, and she said I should be fine as long as I haven't tried to talk and there was no sudden pain... That is the biggie to look out for apparently! Still, out of the hundreds of people they've treated with this procedure, only one has needed to come back for a fix... And that was because they tried to yell on day 3 or 4 or something and it affected the suture tying the cords together. Yikes, that must have been painful!
Glad to hear everything is going excellently for you as well, kathy :D I agree, their facility is great and very comforting. I remember having absolutely no doubts that what I was doing was a good idea. Barely any nerves at all. It sounds like others are having similar experiences, which is good!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 19, 2013, 03:45:18 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 19, 2013, 03:45:18 PM
That's so good to hear Kathy!!! It sounds like you don't have to worry too much if you accidentally cough very minimally, so long as there's no pain. I myself am worrying about that too, as well as talking in my sleep, which I sometimes do.
Thank you for the updates. It's really helping me as I look forward to my own surgery. Please keep them coming!
Thank you for the updates. It's really helping me as I look forward to my own surgery. Please keep them coming!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on September 19, 2013, 11:49:58 PM
Post by: kathyp on September 19, 2013, 11:49:58 PM
Hi
Well no pain yet so I might be alright, Thanks.
Jenny & Abby did you remember what station you met the tour at? We were told the station no. the first hour on Monday and we can't remember if it's station 2,3 or 4 and no one wrote it down, Jessie or us.
Problem is we have no way of contacting them until Mon morning and the tour is Sat a.m.. I'm not sure whether they adjust the meeting place to where you are staying or it's a set place irregardless.
Kathy
Well no pain yet so I might be alright, Thanks.
Jenny & Abby did you remember what station you met the tour at? We were told the station no. the first hour on Monday and we can't remember if it's station 2,3 or 4 and no one wrote it down, Jessie or us.
Problem is we have no way of contacting them until Mon morning and the tour is Sat a.m.. I'm not sure whether they adjust the meeting place to where you are staying or it's a set place irregardless.
Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 20, 2013, 03:50:49 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 20, 2013, 03:50:49 AM
Kathy- I hope everything is going well! I'm sure it is :)
If you told Jessie where you were staying, I'd bet that she told the tour company your address.
If I remember correctly, my friend took a call the evening before to confirm the time from them. I was picked up at my hotel at around 8:20am, if that helps!
Have fun! Really excited that people are sharing their experiences like this, because I can mentally put myself there in a heartbeat... And it makes me want to go back to Seoul to see more.
The tour will be good because you'll get a primer and then know which places you might want to see more of... I did my tour at the end so it ended up being a little redundant because we'd already been to some of the places. The palaces are awesome though, it's a really cool tour. Wear good walking shoes ;)
If you told Jessie where you were staying, I'd bet that she told the tour company your address.
If I remember correctly, my friend took a call the evening before to confirm the time from them. I was picked up at my hotel at around 8:20am, if that helps!
Have fun! Really excited that people are sharing their experiences like this, because I can mentally put myself there in a heartbeat... And it makes me want to go back to Seoul to see more.
The tour will be good because you'll get a primer and then know which places you might want to see more of... I did my tour at the end so it ended up being a little redundant because we'd already been to some of the places. The palaces are awesome though, it's a really cool tour. Wear good walking shoes ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 04:11:45 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 04:11:45 AM
I am somwhere halfway through this ultra long thread and just wanted to say that you made me cry. Those voice recordings just a month after your visit in Korea were so amazing and incited in me a longing that I have not felt for over a decade. I dont know what to make of that experience yet, just wanted to say that. Sigh
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 20, 2013, 05:02:23 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 20, 2013, 05:02:23 AM
Quote from: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 04:11:45 AM
I am somwhere halfway through this ultra long thread and just wanted to say that you made me cry. Those voice recordings just a month after your visit in Korea were so amazing and incited in me a longing that I have not felt for over a decade. I dont know what to make of that experience yet, just wanted to say that. Sigh
Well let's just have a big cry party, then :) I am already there with you. I was just looking through pics from months ago, and the changeover after voice surgery is obvious to me even in the pictures. As soon as my male voice left for good, a part of my past left for good as well. For me, not having gone through SRS yet, it was the moment when I knew there would be absolutely no turning back- and it progressed me as a person and as a female.
Just tonight, a VERY close friend of mine (actually the closest of all right now ;)) told me how he noticed over the past week that my "voice has gone up higher"... Something I had not noticed at all. The results from this surgery keep getting better and better. I'm almost in tears thinking about it!! I can't imagine going back. And sometimes when I think maybe my voice sounds low one day, I listen to my pre-op voice and I'm like hooooollllyy s!@#. "How did I ever sound like that..." I can't even make those noises anymore.. at all.
Recently, life has been good. I mean... really really good. Seeing the changes from HRT and simultaneously feeling my voice become stronger has been a very uplifting experience, and I wouldn't trade my decision to transition for the world.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 06:29:19 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 06:29:19 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 20, 2013, 05:02:23 AMYes - this is definitely what happens. I noticed that this is different for different people - sometimes it is SRS like it was with me, sometimes it is FFS or voice surgery, whatever comes first I guess. It is the point the irrevokable (well at least to 99% or so) decision is made to really be on the female side. In the cases of people being happy afterwards, I think almost all of them had that moment - often before any surgery when the decision really was made with the impacts after the surgery coming to pass. I called this in other posts a rite of passage and that is what I think it is. At that point one can (is allowed to, does not need to do otherwise, maybe even is forced a bit in a gentle way) let go of shreds and bits of a former "male" self presentation. And this is incredibly liberating - knowing that one can discard of so many things now that they are really no longer needed because the final decision was made to live in a way that does not have a use for them.
As soon as my male voice left for good, a part of my past left for good as well. For me, not having gone through SRS yet, it was the moment when I knew there would be absolutely no turning back- and it progressed me as a person and as a female.
QuoteAnd sometimes when I think maybe my voice sounds low one day, I listen to my pre-op voice and I'm like hooooollllyy s!@#. "How did I ever sound like that..." I can't even make those noises anymore.. at all.Thats wow. Incredible how sometimes not to be able to do something (a diminished choice in a way) can be really liberating :D . Ah that sounds great. I am back at voice training for myself the next weeks. Just ordered microphone and such. I treid experimenting a bit now as people tell me I have a low pitch voice quite often. I wondered and found that yes i am doing many of the things described in various voice training videos and such already. So I mustered up all my courage and tried to get to my very very old voice. I barely managed but when I did I found that yes it is holy >-bleeped-< even so much deeper down O.O - so then I thought well, I have come a long way already but its far from good. And then I listened to your recordings and cried.
Ah sorry for being writing so much and whining a bit :) - I will finish that thread reading now - 12 more pages to go. dont wat to write too much before knowing what was already said ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige on September 20, 2013, 10:51:50 AM
Post by: Paige on September 20, 2013, 10:51:50 AM
JennyGirl thank you so much for starting this thread. I always thought the voice issue would be the one thing that would make life extremely difficult transitioning. Now I can actually imagine myself sort of passing if I ever get the courage to do it. :-)
Also, I keep wondering when this surgery is going to take off in North America. It seems so much better than all the other options.
Also, I keep wondering when this surgery is going to take off in North America. It seems so much better than all the other options.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on September 20, 2013, 03:08:27 PM
Post by: barbie on September 20, 2013, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: kathyp on September 19, 2013, 11:49:58 PM
Jenny & Abby did you remember what station you met the tour at? We were told the station no. the first hour on Monday and we can't remember if it's station 2,3 or 4 and no one wrote it down, Jessie or us.
Kathy,
If nobody yet called you, then you may try to wait in the front of Entrance #2 of Apgujeong Station (do not go down to the stairs). Entrance #2 is closest to Yeson clinic.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 05:41:22 PM
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 05:41:22 PM
I am looking forward to hear more recordings. These voices are beautiful. I kind of dread tomorrow when the mic comes and I will do some testing on how I sound now without effort, how with effort to raise pitch and how with effort to actually go to the male voice I have not used in years. I dont know what it will be like and how bad it really will turn out to be. Even more scary for me at least is the thought that I will actually have the desire to follow your examples here as voice is such a major issue for me still - its IMO close to 100% of the reason I get misgendered. I did only a bit of voice training years ago with the Melanie Ann Phillips way - I think I am not too bad in terms of resonance but I dont know really. So I have a question. Is there a way to get all these voice qualities analyzed at the PC? Like the pitch range, average pitch but also see somehow if resonance is good or not?
Meh it is weird. I am scared at listening to my own voice, quite afraid of doing any voice surgery that basically reduces my pitch range and maybe other properties of the voice - but I am even more hurt by people misgendering me and I have a hard time to use a high pitch - it is straineous and I somehow dont really feel comfortable using a higher pitch with other people. I think listeining to my higher pitched voice in my head only and not in recording makes it sound higher than it is, so I feel like talking Mickey Mouse but once I recorded it with the cellphone and it was not that high at all. But the emotional response I had when listening to the Audio here was of a quality I did not have in a time - and when it comes to trans-issues I didnt have it in 13 years actually, so yeah - I dont know what will happen. I think first I need to look for a voice therapist and see what they can do. But the whole "not being able to speak like a man again ever" or the "not being able to pass as a man" statements really strike me as something I WANT. :D -
Confused,
A.Q.
Meh it is weird. I am scared at listening to my own voice, quite afraid of doing any voice surgery that basically reduces my pitch range and maybe other properties of the voice - but I am even more hurt by people misgendering me and I have a hard time to use a high pitch - it is straineous and I somehow dont really feel comfortable using a higher pitch with other people. I think listeining to my higher pitched voice in my head only and not in recording makes it sound higher than it is, so I feel like talking Mickey Mouse but once I recorded it with the cellphone and it was not that high at all. But the emotional response I had when listening to the Audio here was of a quality I did not have in a time - and when it comes to trans-issues I didnt have it in 13 years actually, so yeah - I dont know what will happen. I think first I need to look for a voice therapist and see what they can do. But the whole "not being able to speak like a man again ever" or the "not being able to pass as a man" statements really strike me as something I WANT. :D -
Confused,
A.Q.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 08:32:41 PM
Post by: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 08:32:41 PM
I have come up with a question I want to ask about this surgery. I knew a person who had this surgery. She did it in the early years of the last decade, must have been 2002 or so. I dont know where she went but she had this technique done that is described here with the fusing of the voice cords with a suture to reduce length to 2/3 or 1/2. Now I think she was th eonly one in our support group that got a voice surgery, everyone else was scared and I have to admit I was not enthusiastic about the outcome. I think the pitch was too high and she sounded squeaky at first. It did settle down a bit but I am still not thrilled although I heard much worse examples on the net. So while just now as I was talking about surgeries and such my best friend who always told me to not do anything in terms of surgeries except SRS felt that this topic is tough for me told me if I could "not just get this done by a surgery" I was baffled and in a way relieved that there will not be opposition on that end if I should decide for that, but that result of the other friend I have not met in a decade, only heard the voice on the phone was what kept me from investigatin any of this for over a decade now. This is why I wrote above that i am scared, despite the great results shown here.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on September 20, 2013, 11:04:30 PM
Post by: Lexi Belle on September 20, 2013, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: anjaq on September 20, 2013, 08:32:41 PM
I have come up with a question I want to ask about this surgery. I knew a person who had this surgery. She did it in the early years of the last decade, must have been 2002 or so. I dont know where she went but she had this technique done that is described here with the fusing of the voice cords with a suture to reduce length to 2/3 or 1/2. Now I think she was th eonly one in our support group that got a voice surgery, everyone else was scared and I have to admit I was not enthusiastic about the outcome. I think the pitch was too high and she sounded squeaky at first. It did settle down a bit but I am still not thrilled although I heard much worse examples on the net. So while just now as I was talking about surgeries and such my best friend who always told me to not do anything in terms of surgeries except SRS felt that this topic is tough for me told me if I could "not just get this done by a surgery" I was baffled and in a way relieved that there will not be opposition on that end if I should decide for that, but that result of the other friend I have not met in a decade, only heard the voice on the phone was what kept me from investigatin any of this for over a decade now. This is why I wrote above that i am scared, despite the great results shown here.
You should probably be familiar with which surgery she ACTUALLY got. I didn't actually know this place was doing TG vocal surgeries for that long? Could be wrong? But anyway, if I'm not mistaken when I investigated Yeson's site and searched different outcomes it seems to be by far the very LEAST invasive vocal operation I have come across and it's success rate is reaaally high. Every example I have heard has sounded very natural. I think your fear, as well as your support group's fear is of the OTHER vocal operations as they are all very invasive and much of them have a very poor chance of a good success. Yeson, as far as I know is the ONLY place that does what they do as far as the operation goes.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 02:40:37 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 02:40:37 AM
I suppose there is a chance she had it done at Yeson. From what I understand, 2002 or shortly thereafter was around the time that Dr. Kim initially began performing VFS.. It wasn't until 2007 that he presented it, though.
I haven't heard any examples of voices sounding squeaky or too high coming from Yeson, but I have heard a few that sounded like resonance hadn't been worked on much. Still, it wasn't enough of a problem that I would have gendered their voice male at all. Going into it I knew I would still have a lot of learning to do with the new pitch. Heck, I am still learning :) It's a very rewarding experience.
I had a great day today because of my voice, actually. This morning I was on the phone with the DMV and had to identify myself as my previous identity to match the registration on the car... Even after the woman saw my file and that I'm still in the books as male, she still called me ma'am twice later on in the conversation! I didn't tell her I was trans or anything suggesting that. She didn't even catch herself to say "I'm sorry about that" with a correction. That to me was the most affirming experience I have had talking to someone random over the phone, and it tooootally made my day.
On top of that, today I noticed that the super high squeak register I discovered months ago has officially made its way into my laugh. I was almost shocked when I heard it this evening because it came out completely involuntarily. It is MUCH easier to go into that register now... I never used to be able to do that :) I'm excited.
Today was a great day!
I haven't heard any examples of voices sounding squeaky or too high coming from Yeson, but I have heard a few that sounded like resonance hadn't been worked on much. Still, it wasn't enough of a problem that I would have gendered their voice male at all. Going into it I knew I would still have a lot of learning to do with the new pitch. Heck, I am still learning :) It's a very rewarding experience.
I had a great day today because of my voice, actually. This morning I was on the phone with the DMV and had to identify myself as my previous identity to match the registration on the car... Even after the woman saw my file and that I'm still in the books as male, she still called me ma'am twice later on in the conversation! I didn't tell her I was trans or anything suggesting that. She didn't even catch herself to say "I'm sorry about that" with a correction. That to me was the most affirming experience I have had talking to someone random over the phone, and it tooootally made my day.
On top of that, today I noticed that the super high squeak register I discovered months ago has officially made its way into my laugh. I was almost shocked when I heard it this evening because it came out completely involuntarily. It is MUCH easier to go into that register now... I never used to be able to do that :) I'm excited.
Today was a great day!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 21, 2013, 07:31:06 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 21, 2013, 07:31:06 AM
Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 20, 2013, 11:04:30 PMOh I did not want to say that this is not the case - and from what I got from a friend of mine who met her lately the voice is good and I dont think there have been complaints. I didnt see her in a long time as after 2002, we all more or less disappeared from each other and the TG stuff - many moved away. Anyways I dont know as of now her surgeon or EXACTLY what was done except that IIRC she got a procedure that was rather new at that time and that involved taking the vocal cords and basically "sewing them together" to make the opening for the air smaller and the active part of the vocal cords shorter. This sounds to me like what Yeson is doing, so either it is just close to that or some other surgeons performed this as early as 2002 or she actually was one of the very early patients of Yeson (which would also mean that very likely the procedure was further developed since then). I think I even remember that she did a short presentation at the support group about this - with the ususal sceptic reactions (that group was sceptic to everything which sounded like an easier way - laser hair removal, RLT without skirts, early HRT, FFS, ...). So what I remember from back then was that the voice was very squeaky at first - really high pitched and she did not control resonance well so it sounded not really great (I cannot be said enough that #1 priority is to get resonance trained). I found the pitch to be too high for a woman of her stature - rather tall and as many TS people not overly femme in face and body, so I think I perceived that a bit as a mismatch - that pitch would have me expect a smaller, tinyer, more feminine woman. And from what I gathered the pitch is still really high now after 10 years (so on the upside this is a good hint that the effects of the surgery are long lasting). I have to meet her again to see how things are and ask her some things about it if I really should consider this, which I am absolutely not sure but rather scared about. Oh and that scare - it is only to a minor degree a scare about maybe lack of success in the result - from what I hear here, the results seem to be awesome. Its also that I just generally am scared of surgery (the last one I had was SRS and that did not go that well) and I am scared of doing such a step now - being 13 years post op and all that - how would I explain to anyone what I did without coming out again. So thats mostly about me. My fear of surgery comes in part of me often getting nerve problems - does this surgery potenitally injure any nerves? I hear somethign about the tongue being numb? I tend to be among the fraction of a percent in such cases in which nerves do not regenerate well. Once I pinched a finger too hard and it took over 2 months to regain sensitivity :( .
You should probably be familiar with which surgery she ACTUALLY got. [....]it seems to be by far the very LEAST invasive vocal operation I have come across and it's success rate is reaaally high. Every example I have heard has sounded very natural. I think your fear, as well as your support group's fear is of the OTHER vocal operations
Regarding the surgery resulsts - from how I understand it, it basically reduces your vocal pitch range, restricts it to the upper half. I guess that is all right as who wants to use the lower half anyways except if one is a singer or actor. But did I get that right?
Oh and one more - Do they have at least a guess as to what happens long term? I mean like 20 or 40 years out? they cannot know anything about more than 10 years of course because there was no such surgery before but do they have a guess? Will pitch stay, come down a bit, could the modifications cause some other problems in old age with breathing or therelike?
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 02:40:37 AMI dont know where she went or how she got the information. I would have to meet her again and ask. It was outside the country though for sure.
I suppose there is a chance she had it done at Yeson. From what I understand, 2002 or shortly thereafter was around the time that Dr. Kim initially began performing VFS.. It wasn't until 2007 that he presented it, though.
Again - what I heard was the initial result more or less some weeks after surgery, so that was not well trained. What I noticed was that I thought the pitch would be too high - well in a female range of course but IMO unusual for a woman like her in this country. By the way I tend to think, I would be interested if someone has info on that, that women in different countries use different pitch. In Germany a lot more women seem to use a lower pitch than in the US and rarely I hear some of the very high pitched voices here in Germany that are at least common in the US media. Maybe that is also why I thought the pitch was too high because of the context - maybe it was more like a US woman than a German woman.
(EDIT: Found a study on that: www.qmu.ac.uk/casl/PitchRange/Mennen_et_al_ICPHS07_final.pdf - it says that there is an average 5 Hz difference plus a difference in the pitch range used... )
QuoteGoing into it I knew I would still have a lot of learning to do with the new pitch. Heck, I am still learning :) It's a very rewarding experience.That sounds cool. I can imagine that it is much more fun to learn with a voice that is in the right range than to try and learn the same thing with a voice that "breaks off" to the low range. I really was so put back in the one face to face voice lesson I had with a trainer because she wanted me to go into my deeper voice to feel the resonance - by that time I really did not want to hear that sound coming out from me....
EDIT: Jenny, you mentioned that you wrote something about how to use the praat software for voice training, can you give the link? I just tried and its quite complicated program. If I get this right, my pitch range seems to be 90-420, original voice is at 110-120, regular voice now (the way I am using it without having to think too much about it) is between 125 and 160, if I make some effort it seems to go in the range of 200-210 (though to me this is already the point I scare away of using it outside training). But I'd like to know more on the program as I am not sure I am using it right. I am recording and looking at the blue numbers at the bottom in the voice pattern image after zooming in to 10 seconds.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on September 21, 2013, 08:09:43 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on September 21, 2013, 08:09:43 AM
Quote from: anjaq on September 21, 2013, 07:31:06 AMI dont know as of now her surgeon or EXACTLY what was done except that IIRC she got a procedure that was rather new at that time and that involved taking the vocal cords and basically "sewing them together" to make the opening for the air smaller and the active part of the vocal cords shorter. This sounds to me like what Yeson is doing, so either it is just close to that or some other surgeons performed this as early as 2002In Germany (perhaps Berlin) Dr. Manfred Gross did what he called "anterior web creation (http://www.annelawrence.com/voicesurgery.html)" - the same surgery as Yeson does. Ask here (http://audiologie-phoniatrie.charite.de).
rarely I hear some of the very high pitched voices here in Germany that are at least common in the US media.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 10:08:19 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 10:08:19 AM
Hi everyone I thought I would share a few more voice clips with you all.
Reading the rainbow passage, my natural speaking voice is now up to about 177hz, and can be heard here: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0sG1qZuozcq
And here's me reading the same passage but trying to elevate the pitch a little bit. I am not trying super hard here, and definitely not straining my voice at all - just a comfortable elevation. It is at 210hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0pkZJttqIud
I'm about 5.5 weeks post-op and my voice is getting better every day. I still am resting my voice and trying to use it as little as possible, as they recommend that until the 8 week point. At that point I can start my vocal exercises and I'll post another update. :)
My normal conversation pitch is a bit lower, at around 160-165hz, but part of that is I think mental and part of that is I also need to work on my inflection a bit, as the rainbow passage really forces you to use a wider pitch range. So when using it in public, my voice doesn't sound quite as feminine but at least it is gender neutral. Considering I still have a while to heal and I'm still getting used to my new voice, I'm very very happy with where I am right now. :)
Reading the rainbow passage, my natural speaking voice is now up to about 177hz, and can be heard here: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0sG1qZuozcq
And here's me reading the same passage but trying to elevate the pitch a little bit. I am not trying super hard here, and definitely not straining my voice at all - just a comfortable elevation. It is at 210hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0pkZJttqIud
I'm about 5.5 weeks post-op and my voice is getting better every day. I still am resting my voice and trying to use it as little as possible, as they recommend that until the 8 week point. At that point I can start my vocal exercises and I'll post another update. :)
My normal conversation pitch is a bit lower, at around 160-165hz, but part of that is I think mental and part of that is I also need to work on my inflection a bit, as the rainbow passage really forces you to use a wider pitch range. So when using it in public, my voice doesn't sound quite as feminine but at least it is gender neutral. Considering I still have a while to heal and I'm still getting used to my new voice, I'm very very happy with where I am right now. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 21, 2013, 10:16:35 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 21, 2013, 10:16:35 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 10:08:19 AM
Hi everyone I thought I would share a few more voice clips with you all.
Reading the rainbow passage, my natural speaking voice is now up to about 177hz, and can be heard here: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0sG1qZuozcq
And here's me reading the same passage but trying to elevate the pitch a little bit. I am not trying super hard here, and definitely not straining my voice at all - just a comfortable elevation. It is at 210hz: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0pkZJttqIud
I'm about 5.5 weeks post-op and my voice is getting better every day. I still am resting my voice and trying to use it as little as possible, as they recommend that until the 8 week point. At that point I can start my vocal exercises and I'll post another update. :)
My normal conversation pitch is a bit lower, at around 160-165hz, but part of that is I think mental and part of that is I also need to work on my inflection a bit, as the rainbow passage really forces you to use a wider pitch range. So when using it in public, my voice doesn't sound quite as feminine but at least it is gender neutral. Considering I still have a while to heal and I'm still getting used to my new voice, I'm very very happy with where I am right now. :)
Amazing progress, both tracks very feminine Abby and such a huge change from the former voice! Even as it sounds now in either clip no-one would ever suspect your birth gender, couple that with your terrific looks, you're good to go doll baby!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 21, 2013, 11:01:10 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 21, 2013, 11:01:10 AM
Yes, totally agree that the latest audio clips are great. The first one is really a bit on the lower range, could be considered a bit neutral in terms of pitch, though as you control resonance there, it's good and female sounding. The second recording obviously is quite distinctively female. But as I understood it the goal of this surgery is to elevate the pitch you are having without having to raise it. Or is it now quite easy to get to the second pitch compared to pre-op?
Which brings up a general question about this - did you Abby and Jenny have the same voice as you have now in the recording post-op also pre-op during voice training when you consiously elevated pitch? I mean can you compare a pre-op voice recording at lets say 220 Hz with a post-op recording at the same pitch?
But this also means that Yeson is neither the first nor the only one who does that surgery - he may still be the most experienced one as usually in Germany doctors doing gender surgeries of all kinds perform mostly other tasks and only a small percentage of their operations are gender related. I doubt anyone of them could get to 500+ gender-related surgeries in a few years.
Oh and thanks Lena for the "shortcut" voice article. Its is intersting. I could probably not have learned resonance from that one, but it does explain it in medical terms. I never knew what exactly I am doing there ;). I must say for me it is still a bit of a strain to do this all the time. I sometimes get a bit of a weird feeling in the throat if I do the resonance control all day long. It is a lot worse when I try to elevate pitch. Both of them have lead me over the years to become a person that does not speak a lot and I have sort of lost the initial high pitch low resonance voice as it was somehow too straineous to keep up. Both is not good - I would really like to talk more with people.
Which brings up a general question about this - did you Abby and Jenny have the same voice as you have now in the recording post-op also pre-op during voice training when you consiously elevated pitch? I mean can you compare a pre-op voice recording at lets say 220 Hz with a post-op recording at the same pitch?
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on September 21, 2013, 08:09:43 AMI think thats probably it, yes. According to the article he started to do this in 1999, which is a few years before the time I mentioned, which was somewhere between 2001 and 2003 I believe. And it makes of course sense then that there was information on this going around in the support groups. He does not seem to promote that on the website though, or I have not found it yet. I wonder if they actually do this on insurance cost as some of the other procedures. It will be a bit harder to get a good set of before and after recordings and personal evaluations of patients I can imagine, but I might actually check this out.
In Germany (perhaps Berlin) Dr. Manfred Gross did what he called "anterior web creation (http://www.annelawrence.com/voicesurgery.html)" - the same surgery as Yeson does.
But this also means that Yeson is neither the first nor the only one who does that surgery - he may still be the most experienced one as usually in Germany doctors doing gender surgeries of all kinds perform mostly other tasks and only a small percentage of their operations are gender related. I doubt anyone of them could get to 500+ gender-related surgeries in a few years.
Oh and thanks Lena for the "shortcut" voice article. Its is intersting. I could probably not have learned resonance from that one, but it does explain it in medical terms. I never knew what exactly I am doing there ;). I must say for me it is still a bit of a strain to do this all the time. I sometimes get a bit of a weird feeling in the throat if I do the resonance control all day long. It is a lot worse when I try to elevate pitch. Both of them have lead me over the years to become a person that does not speak a lot and I have sort of lost the initial high pitch low resonance voice as it was somehow too straineous to keep up. Both is not good - I would really like to talk more with people.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 11:05:20 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 11:05:20 AM
Thank you Shan!!
Yeah, the overall goal is to elevate the pitch so I don't have to focus on it at all. That was the first recording, me just speaking at a normal pitch. It has gone up quite a bit and if I see the average increase by the time it is fully healed (another 2-3 months, everyone heals differently) then that normal speaking pitch should be up around 200hz.
And yes, the pitch of the second recording was me putting very, very little effort into raising the pitch. Before surgery, my normal speaking pitch was 125hz and my feminine pitch was 170hz. I could do 200hz but not sustained for any period of time as it was very straining on my vocal chords. Compared to before, getting over 200hz now is a breeze, and it should be where my natural voice eventually ends up.
Edit: Oh and it's good to hear that the resonance sounds good in my recordings, since I'm not even focusing on it at all!! That's why I really can't wait until I can start my vocal exercises because I know that will improve my resonance a bit on top of the pitch still increasing.
Quote from: anjaq on September 21, 2013, 11:01:10 AM
Yes, totally agree that the latest audio clips are great. The first one is really a bit on the lower range, could be considered a bit neutral in terms of pitch, though as you control resonance there, it's good and female sounding. The second recording obviously is quite distinctively female. But as I understood it the goal of this surgery is to elevate the pitch you are having without having to raise it. Or is it now quite easy to get to the second pitch compared to pre-op?
Which brings up a general question about this - did you Abby and Jenny have the same voice as you have now in the recording post-op also pre-op during voice training when you consiously elevated pitch? I mean can you compare a pre-op voice recording at lets say 220 Hz with a post-op recording at the same pitch?
Yeah, the overall goal is to elevate the pitch so I don't have to focus on it at all. That was the first recording, me just speaking at a normal pitch. It has gone up quite a bit and if I see the average increase by the time it is fully healed (another 2-3 months, everyone heals differently) then that normal speaking pitch should be up around 200hz.
And yes, the pitch of the second recording was me putting very, very little effort into raising the pitch. Before surgery, my normal speaking pitch was 125hz and my feminine pitch was 170hz. I could do 200hz but not sustained for any period of time as it was very straining on my vocal chords. Compared to before, getting over 200hz now is a breeze, and it should be where my natural voice eventually ends up.
Edit: Oh and it's good to hear that the resonance sounds good in my recordings, since I'm not even focusing on it at all!! That's why I really can't wait until I can start my vocal exercises because I know that will improve my resonance a bit on top of the pitch still increasing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 11:39:15 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 11:39:15 AM
Seriously sounding great Abby :) I know how you feel with looking forward to vocal exercises. I couldn't wait! They really help so much. I kind of slacked doing them for a few weeks in August because I was waking up late and was off of work (I would normally do the exercises in my car to/from work). I feel kind of weird doing the exercises when I know my roommates can hear :P Lately I haven't been caring as much what they think because I love hearing my voice get better, and it still is.
anjaq- to answer your question, I second what Abby said. I think my starting voice was just shy of 20hz higher than hers, and the shift I have experienced pre/post op is almost exactly the same. Pre-op normal speaking range for me was 130-140hz and w/ practiced female voice up to 220 for short periods of time. Post-op normal relaxed speaking range 190-200hz and rainbow passage at 215hz... up to 235hz comfortably raising pitch thinking about it. The 235hz has pretty much stayed the same for me, it's the average speaking pitch that has gone up noticeably. I guess I am just more comfortable with the sound of my voice now, and I've been adding vocal inflections all the while.
I think when I first started talking, in conversation my voice was around 170-180 on average- but it was just a voice training thing. Every time I would record something (not talking to people) my voice jumped up to 210-215. Like I said, now my conversational voice is up to 190-200.
I guess I should really do another recording. The last time I recorded something and posted it was from 2 months post-op, when I did my interview video. That was just after I had started vocal exercises. I am now 4 months post op!
anjaq- to answer your question, I second what Abby said. I think my starting voice was just shy of 20hz higher than hers, and the shift I have experienced pre/post op is almost exactly the same. Pre-op normal speaking range for me was 130-140hz and w/ practiced female voice up to 220 for short periods of time. Post-op normal relaxed speaking range 190-200hz and rainbow passage at 215hz... up to 235hz comfortably raising pitch thinking about it. The 235hz has pretty much stayed the same for me, it's the average speaking pitch that has gone up noticeably. I guess I am just more comfortable with the sound of my voice now, and I've been adding vocal inflections all the while.
I think when I first started talking, in conversation my voice was around 170-180 on average- but it was just a voice training thing. Every time I would record something (not talking to people) my voice jumped up to 210-215. Like I said, now my conversational voice is up to 190-200.
I guess I should really do another recording. The last time I recorded something and posted it was from 2 months post-op, when I did my interview video. That was just after I had started vocal exercises. I am now 4 months post op!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 11:50:09 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 11:50:09 AM
Also, Lena- it looks like the endoscopic version of the web creation procedure detailed in the link you most recently posted is exactly the same procedure that Yeson offers. I'd be interested to know if the technique differs at all when it comes to how the "web" is created... i.e. placement of the sutures and how much is tied off. average increase of 81hz sounds right on the money to Yeson's 75hz. However, there haven't been any reports of weak or breathy voice coming from Yeson... so that's why I wonder about whether the technique is slightly different.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 21, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 21, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Abby, you're sounding very good! How much talking do you do these days being only 5.5 weeks post-op? I know you mentioned that you're trying not to talk too much until at least 8 weeks, but how much talking does that mean you limit it to?
Also, when you do talk is there any pain or anything? Do you have to strain to talk or does it come out pretty easily? I'm just curious if after the surgery and until it's healed enough if you're always in a little pain or have to actually strain to talk at all.
Also, when you do talk is there any pain or anything? Do you have to strain to talk or does it come out pretty easily? I'm just curious if after the surgery and until it's healed enough if you're always in a little pain or have to actually strain to talk at all.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 01:38:28 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 01:38:28 PM
Quote from: SarahR on September 21, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Also, when you do talk is there any pain or anything? Do you have to strain to talk or does it come out pretty easily? I'm just curious if after the surgery and until it's healed enough if you're always in a little pain or have to actually strain to talk at all.
I haven't experienced a single moment of strain or pain, not even right after I began talking again :)
The only day there was any throat pain was the day following surgery. All that was left after that was my tongue being a little sore from the instrument that opens the throat.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 21, 2013, 01:50:57 PM
Post by: Shantel on September 21, 2013, 01:50:57 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 01:38:28 PM
I haven't experienced a single moment of strain or pain, not even right after I began talking again :)
The only day there was any throat pain was the day following surgery. All that was left after that was my tongue being a little sore from the instrument that opens the throat.
I had a procedure done at ENT recently where the doc poofed some powder up my nostrils to accommodate a fiberoptic eye inspection. I suddenly was unable to swallow for about fifteen minutes and felt a bit panicky, does that happen at Yeson during the voice procedure?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 02:40:25 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 02:40:25 PM
During the examinations via laryngoscope, he does spray something in your nostrils first... I think probably to keep things dry and clear temporarily. I had no problem swallowing, though.
The only panicky moment I had was waking up after surgery, because for 10 or 15 seconds I was trying to gasp for air and my throat closed up. I immediately started breathing slow and everything was fine from there on out :)
The only panicky moment I had was waking up after surgery, because for 10 or 15 seconds I was trying to gasp for air and my throat closed up. I immediately started breathing slow and everything was fine from there on out :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kathyp on September 21, 2013, 06:19:52 PM
Post by: kathyp on September 21, 2013, 06:19:52 PM
Wow! Abby that voice update is already sounding great. I want to go into a time machine and be able to right now speak.
An update here is Seoul. We never went on the tour, not having a clue as to where our meeting place
was supposed to be and not having any way of contacting anybody from the clinic for the last four days we decided to cross our fingers and hope the tour company would pick us up at our apt. like they had for Jenny. We waited until 9 am no one showed so we embarked on our own self guided tour. Korea is really growing on me I would love to come back with a voice and a bike and stay longer. But not in Winter!
My recuperating after 5 days is I assume like everyone else's at this point, your convinced that you have damaged your sutures because of some involuntary cough or exclaimation. Then your logical side steps in and reassures you that 1 patient out of 200 is only 1/2% and she was in a car accident and you haven't so etc.......The worry won't cease until they stick the camera back down my throat and Dr Kim says everything is looking good. Two more days!
Kathy
An update here is Seoul. We never went on the tour, not having a clue as to where our meeting place
was supposed to be and not having any way of contacting anybody from the clinic for the last four days we decided to cross our fingers and hope the tour company would pick us up at our apt. like they had for Jenny. We waited until 9 am no one showed so we embarked on our own self guided tour. Korea is really growing on me I would love to come back with a voice and a bike and stay longer. But not in Winter!
My recuperating after 5 days is I assume like everyone else's at this point, your convinced that you have damaged your sutures because of some involuntary cough or exclaimation. Then your logical side steps in and reassures you that 1 patient out of 200 is only 1/2% and she was in a car accident and you haven't so etc.......The worry won't cease until they stick the camera back down my throat and Dr Kim says everything is looking good. Two more days!
Kathy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 06:34:20 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 06:34:20 PM
Quote from: kathyp on September 21, 2013, 06:19:52 PM
My recuperating after 5 days is I assume like everyone else's at this point, your convinced that you have damaged your sutures because of some involuntary cough or exclaimation. Then your logical side steps in and reassures you that 1 patient out of 200 is only 1/2% and she was in a car accident and you haven't so etc.......The worry won't cease until they stick the camera back down my throat and Dr Kim says everything is looking good. Two more days!
Kathy
Urrgh... That dreadful wait to know that recovery is going okay! So nerve wracking. Yes, I completely understand your desire for a time machine. I was counting down the days, too, if you look back earlier in the thread :D I think I was probably driving my friend NUTS typing to her about it so much! Actually I almost went into Yeson 2 days early to get checked out just because I was so worried about it. I lost a lot of sleep.
Rest assured, Jessie even told me that past patients were permitted to cough even during early recovery and they healed fine. Then they started asking patients not to cough at all and instead do the whoosh as a precaution.
I think the main danger when coughing is not the initial hold and release of air in the throat- it's buzzing noise as the air comes out from a very powerful sickly cough that is dangerous because it vibrates the vocal cords (I think ppl would call it a "whooping" cough or something). The main thing they don't want is for your vocal cords to vibrate.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 09:11:55 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 09:11:55 PM
Quote from: SarahR on September 21, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
Abby, you're sounding very good! How much talking do you do these days being only 5.5 weeks post-op? I know you mentioned that you're trying not to talk too much until at least 8 weeks, but how much talking does that mean you limit it to?
Also, when you do talk is there any pain or anything? Do you have to strain to talk or does it come out pretty easily? I'm just curious if after the surgery and until it's healed enough if you're always in a little pain or have to actually strain to talk at all.
Hi Sarah,
I talk here and there, but only when I need to. If I'm having a conversation with someone I try to limit it to no more than a few sentences at a time. I know that I've been talking too much when the quality of my voice starts to go down, like sometimes it will crack.
There is no pain or strain, thankfully!! It comes out very easily, but it took a few weeks to reach that point. I'd say for the first three weeks it took a bit of effort to say a word and didn't sound too pretty either.
And same with Jenny, the only pain from the surgery was a mild sore throat that lasted less than 24 hours. A small section of my tongue was numb for about 4 or 5 days too, from the device they use to keep your mouth open.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 09:15:16 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: kathyp on September 21, 2013, 06:19:52 PM
Wow! Abby that voice update is already sounding great. I want to go into a time machine and be able to right now speak.
An update here is Seoul. We never went on the tour, not having a clue as to where our meeting place
was supposed to be and not having any way of contacting anybody from the clinic for the last four days we decided to cross our fingers and hope the tour company would pick us up at our apt. like they had for Jenny. We waited until 9 am no one showed so we embarked on our own self guided tour. Korea is really growing on me I would love to come back with a voice and a bike and stay longer. But not in Winter!
My recuperating after 5 days is I assume like everyone else's at this point, your convinced that you have damaged your sutures because of some involuntary cough or exclaimation. Then your logical side steps in and reassures you that 1 patient out of 200 is only 1/2% and she was in a car accident and you haven't so etc.......The worry won't cease until they stick the camera back down my throat and Dr Kim says everything is looking good. Two more days!
Kathy
So sorry to hear you missed your tour, but at least you got to see some sights! Seoul really did grow on me for the two weeks I was there, I would love love love to visit again. Maybe someday I'll take a trip there with a Susan's girl who is going alone. That was honestly the worst part about the entire experience for me, is not going with anyone.
Good luck with your follow-up! I'm sure it will go fine. And please keep us update with your recovery!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on September 23, 2013, 06:24:11 AM
Post by: Carlita on September 23, 2013, 06:24:11 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 11:50:09 AM
Also, Lena- it looks like the endoscopic version of the web creation procedure detailed in the link you most recently posted is exactly the same procedure that Yeson offers. I'd be interested to know if the technique differs at all when it comes to how the "web" is created... i.e. placement of the sutures and how much is tied off. average increase of 81hz sounds right on the money to Yeson's 75hz. However, there haven't been any reports of weak or breathy voice coming from Yeson... so that's why I wonder about whether the technique is slightly different.
Golly ... I've got a long way to go. My regular speaking voice is way down at 95Hz, so if I added another 80Hz that would only take me up to 175Hz ... within the female range, but I'd still need to do a LOT of work on resonance, intonation, breathing and expression. But, oh, the relief of losing that bass register!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on September 23, 2013, 02:39:55 PM
Post by: Lexi Belle on September 23, 2013, 02:39:55 PM
Quote from: Carlita on September 23, 2013, 06:24:11 AM
Golly ... I've got a long way to go. My regular speaking voice is way down at 95Hz, so if I added another 80Hz that would only take me up to 175Hz ... within the female range, but I'd still need to do a LOT of work on resonance, intonation, breathing and expression. But, oh, the relief of losing that bass register!
I wish i knew how to find out my Hz xD
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 03:43:28 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on September 21, 2013, 01:38:28 PM
I haven't experienced a single moment of strain or pain, not even right after I began talking again :)
The only day there was any throat pain was the day following surgery. All that was left after that was my tongue being a little sore from the instrument that opens the throat.
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 21, 2013, 09:11:55 PM
There is no pain or strain, thankfully!! It comes out very easily, but it took a few weeks to reach that point. I'd say for the first three weeks it took a bit of effort to say a word and didn't sound too pretty either.
And same with Jenny, the only pain from the surgery was a mild sore throat that lasted less than 24 hours. A small section of my tongue was numb for about 4 or 5 days too, from the device they use to keep your mouth open.
Fantastic! It sounds like other than not being able to talk (which I can only imagine must be itself pretty difficult) there really is not much pain involved with this surgery. It seems like most of the time in Seoul is then free to just vacation, basically, as opposed to focusing on the healing process like with FFS or SRS.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 04:24:17 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 04:24:17 PM
Quote from: SarahR on September 23, 2013, 03:43:28 PM
Fantastic! It sounds like other than not being able to talk (which I can only imagine must be itself pretty difficult) there really is not much pain involved with this surgery. It seems like most of the time in Seoul is then free to just vacation, basically, as opposed to focusing on the healing process like with FFS or SRS.
Oh for sure - you're back in your hotel the same day and I felt 100% the next day. I had 10 days after the surgery to just screw around in Seoul. It just sucked being alone and not being able to eat anything spicy (basically everything in Korean cuisine is spicy so you have to be very careful.)
For me the worst part of the recovery at this point, is not being able to sing! It's so frustrating, because I love to sing and they want you to wait at least two or three months before singing again. Every once in a while when I'm listening to music I'll hit just one note, quietly, that I know I couldn't have hit pre-op. It's such a great feeling especially since if Jenny's experience is anything to go by my upper range is only going to go up up up from here!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 04:24:17 PM
Oh for sure - you're back in your hotel the same day and I felt 100% the next day. I had 10 days after the surgery to just screw around in Seoul. It just sucked being alone and not being able to eat anything spicy (basically everything in Korean cuisine is spicy so you have to be very careful.)
For me the worst part of the recovery at this point, is not being able to sing! It's so frustrating, because I love to sing and they want you to wait at least two or three months before singing again. Every once in a while when I'm listening to music I'll hit just one note, quietly, that I know I couldn't have hit pre-op. It's such a great feeling especially since if Jenny's experience is anything to go by my upper range is only going to go up up up from here!
It's just crazy that this is now available, a technique that is less invasive and seemingly more consistent and yet does not involve the amount of pain and recovery that goes along with all the other crap we have to go through. I'm still in awe really!
Yeah, I can see that being hard not singing! I love to sing, not that I'm good or anything, but it goes hand-in-hand with my love of music and dancing. That will definitely be hard to stop for a few months, but worth it in the long run. How do you think your ability to sing will be as your recovery progresses? Can you tell yet whether you'll be able to sing as you did before or anything?
So what do you think is harder: not talking at all during the first few weeks, or being able to talk now but only a little (it would seem like such a tease)? This question is for both you and Jenny, since you two have a couple months between each other and can give some good perspective on it.
Also, have you continued to notice your voice change? Is it like a daily thing in the first few weeks or months where each day it's slightly different, more refined, or is it like the same for a while then one day you'll wake up and it's a little different?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
Quote from: SarahR on September 23, 2013, 04:41:16 PM
It's just crazy that this is now available, a technique that is less invasive and seemingly more consistent and yet does not involve the amount of pain and recovery that goes along with all the other crap we have to go through. I'm still in awe really!
Yeah, I can see that being hard not singing! I love to sing, not that I'm good or anything, but it goes hand-in-hand with my love of music and dancing. That will definitely be hard to stop for a few months, but worth it in the long run. How do you think your ability to sing will be as your recovery progresses? Can you tell yet whether you'll be able to sing as you did before or anything?
So what do you think is harder: not talking at all during the first few weeks, or being able to talk now but only a little (it would seem like such a tease)? This question is for both you and Jenny, since you two have a couple months between each other and can give some good perspective on it.
Also, have you continued to notice your voice change? Is it like a daily thing in the first few weeks or months where each day it's slightly different, more refined, or is it like the same for a while then one day you'll wake up and it's a little different?
I think my ability to sing will stay the same, most of singing is being able to stay on key and my ability to do that won't change. I haven't really tried to sing so I can't tell you for sure, I just know that my range has definitely been extended.
It's definitely harder in the beginning because you can't really communicate without typing into a phone, trying to get people to read lips, or playing charades. Right now I can have a normal conversation I just feel my voice getting a bit weaker and my throat a little dry after a few minutes or so and that's when I know it's time to rest my voice. But every day I notice I can go on a bit longer before I get to that point.
For me, I didn't notice much of a change in the first two weeks or so of being able to talk - my voice was weak enough that although it was healing, I didn't really notice it changing that much. If you go back a few pages you can see I posted in frustration about that because I felt like I wasn't making any progress and was worried I was stuck.
But it got better, pretty quickly in fact. The last 10 days or so (so at around 4 weeks post-op) the quality of my voice came back a ton and the pitch steadily went up. At the same time, I feel like I'm getting used to my new voice and I'm really starting to let it develop mentally I guess? I don't know it's hard to explain, but in the last 4 or 5 days alone my normal speaking pitch has gone up 15-20hz, my confidence is way up, and my voice is sounding better and better.
Everybody heals differently though, and Yeson stressed the fact many times that for some people they didn't notice any real change for quite a while. But given enough time, your voice WILL heal and your pitch WILL go up. So don't freak out like me if it doesn't change as fast as you hoped. :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 05:02:54 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 05:02:54 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 04:48:00 PM
I think my ability to sing will stay the same, most of singing is being able to stay on key and my ability to do that won't change. I haven't really tried to sing so I can't tell you for sure, I just know that my range has definitely been extended.
It's definitely harder in the beginning because you can't really communicate without typing into a phone, trying to get people to read lips, or playing charades. Right now I can have a normal conversation I just feel my voice getting a bit weaker and my throat a little dry after a few minutes or so and that's when I know it's time to rest my voice. But every day I notice I can go on a bit longer before I get to that point.
For me, I didn't notice much of a change in the first two weeks or so of being able to talk - my voice was weak enough that although it was healing, I didn't really notice it changing that much. If you go back a few pages you can see I posted in frustration about that because I felt like I wasn't making any progress and was worried I was stuck.
But it got better, pretty quickly in fact. The last 10 days or so (so at around 4 weeks post-op) the quality of my voice came back a ton and the pitch steadily went up. At the same time, I feel like I'm getting used to my new voice and I'm really starting to let it develop mentally I guess? I don't know it's hard to explain, but in the last 4 or 5 days alone my normal speaking pitch has gone up 15-20hz, my confidence is way up, and my voice is sounding better and better.
Everybody heals differently though, and Yeson stressed the fact many times that for some people they didn't notice any real change for quite a while. But given enough time, your voice WILL heal and your pitch WILL go up. So don't freak out like me if it doesn't change as fast as you hoped. :P
Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely keep that in mind during recovery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 23, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
Post by: anjaq on September 23, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
abby, your range actually INcreased? thats cool. I thought the surgery would decrease pitch range a bit as it "cuts off" the lower frequencies. Jenny said she initially lost a lot of range but got most of it back. But actually increase that woul dbe great. I hate not being able to go up beyong what praat tells me is 410 Hz.
So abby, at what normal speaking range are you now? You had 160 Hz a while ago IIRC when not doing anything consciously. Did that change now?
So abby, at what normal speaking range are you now? You had 160 Hz a while ago IIRC when not doing anything consciously. Did that change now?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 06:40:26 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 06:40:26 PM
Quote from: anjaq on September 23, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
abby, your range actually INcreased? thats cool. I thought the surgery would decrease pitch range a bit as it "cuts off" the lower frequencies. Jenny said she initially lost a lot of range but got most of it back. But actually increase that woul dbe great. I hate not being able to go up beyong what praat tells me is 410 Hz.
So abby, at what normal speaking range are you now? You had 160 Hz a while ago IIRC when not doing anything consciously. Did that change now?
Yeah, that's one of the things I'm actually excited about if it does actually increase the range and not just limit it to the higher frequencies already available. I recall Jenny mentioning that initially her range decreased, where she was able to only go up to somewhere in the upper 400Hz range post-op (as opposed to the mid 500Hz range pre-op) but then after a while her range started to increase and is now into the mid 600Hz range.
Right now my range is ~100Hz (lowest rumble I can manage) and ~700Hz (at the absolute highest-pitch squeak I can manage). Realistically, I can go smoothly from 100Hz all the way up to about 550Hz before my voice kind of cuts out. Then I can continue around there and go all the way up to just under 700Hz. I'm hoping that post-op I can more easily get into the upper frequencies without the break in between, and potentially go higher than ~700Hz.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 23, 2013, 06:43:33 PM
Post by: anjaq on September 23, 2013, 06:43:33 PM
700!!! - oh wow. And 500 without breaking - geez, I break at 300 or so and can go up to 410 at max. I start at about 90, so your range is incredible to me. Even if you loose some of that, its still very good. Did you do something to get there? Voice training, singing,...?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 07:03:44 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 23, 2013, 07:03:44 PM
Quote from: anjaq on September 23, 2013, 06:43:33 PM
700!!! - oh wow. I suck. I get to 410. And 500 without breaking - geez, I break at 300 or so. I start at about 90, so your range is incredible to me. Even if you loose some of that, its still very good. Did you do something to get there? Voice training, singing,...?
Hmm, not really. I mean, I have been adjusting it during normal conversation and fine-tuning my voice for the past 5 years of being full-time which I'm sure has helped. I do sing along with songs a lot and I try to match the pitch and notes (not very well most of the time, lol) but in general I haven't explicitly practiced on my voice really. The only time I "practice" is when I'm in different speaking situations and I have to try and get something that sounds decent to me so i don't out myself, and each time it's slightly different based on the time of day, how much I've talked during the day, how tired I am, etc.
Other than that I'm not sure why my range is so large. Initially I thought I may have just messed up when I was measuring it, but I've tried a few different applications and they all agree. Really, my biggest desire is to just not have to force myself into the naturally-female range. I don't feel honest when I have to do that, and it distracts me from focusing on the conversation I'm having rather than how I'm speaking. If I lose some range (which doesn't sound like that will happen anyways) I'm fine with that, so long as my natural speaking voice is decidedly female without having to force it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 07:57:38 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 23, 2013, 07:57:38 PM
Quote from: anjaq on September 23, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
abby, your range actually INcreased? thats cool. I thought the surgery would decrease pitch range a bit as it "cuts off" the lower frequencies. Jenny said she initially lost a lot of range but got most of it back. But actually increase that woul dbe great. I hate not being able to go up beyong what praat tells me is 410 Hz.
So abby, at what normal speaking range are you now? You had 160 Hz a while ago IIRC when not doing anything consciously. Did that change now?
Sorry - I should have mentioned that it was just my upper range. I don't actually know what my range was pre-op (sorry!) and until my voice has healed more I'm not going to try to see what my range tops out at right now. All I know is I can definitely hit notes that were too high before which is awesome. :)
And yes, my normal speaking voice is now up to about 175-180hz :).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 24, 2013, 01:07:01 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 24, 2013, 01:07:01 AM
Oh Abby that sounds great. 180 as normal without doing anything, thats way good and I guess to that comes then the normal variatiuon in pitch that depends on situation which easily brings it up to 200 or so then. At least for it seems to be so that if I talk to some people, my pitch will just wander up a bit, withothers it goes down a bit, but if 180 more or less is the average that is good. So probably you bottom out at 140 or smth?
Sarah, you are blessed then with a great voice in terms of range. I think I did not saw any numbers like that posted ;). I totally get what you mean by not wanting to concentrate on it. I hate that. In a conversation I keep checking myself and if I dont I may end up loosing it - if I give a talk it does not really work out at all, so I just hope that people dont think too much on it, but I just cannot do it - be in front of many peole, concentrate on the content of the presentation, concentrate on what to say, making up what to say as I go, concentrate on how to say it in english as a foreign language AND then keep resonance good AND then also pitch - thats a bit too much. I think usually I do not too bad in resonance, but pitch just goes down in the 140-160 range.
Ok, I am almost 40 now, so I dont need to be up at 220 or so, but still 140-160 is way too low and androgynous at best.
I did some adjustments as well obviously now over a decade of being fulltime, but well, I only got it from 110 Hz to the 140-160 range in normal conversation which is not sufficient. I am not sure if I may even have lost some pitch range after transition when I was getting less "girly" and more "woman" with time and focussed more on work and such rather than play.
Hehe - I loved singing along for a while but never managed to match the pitch. I am not very musical and cant seem to match my voice well to others. I may try one of these programs they have now to train for singing. I think with these computer games that make you sing, there are some tools out there now that can help with that, just matching a tone and keeping it. I need to get the upper range up a bit, especially the speaking range.
But 700 Hz - can you destroy glasses by singing with that ;) :D
Sarah, you are blessed then with a great voice in terms of range. I think I did not saw any numbers like that posted ;). I totally get what you mean by not wanting to concentrate on it. I hate that. In a conversation I keep checking myself and if I dont I may end up loosing it - if I give a talk it does not really work out at all, so I just hope that people dont think too much on it, but I just cannot do it - be in front of many peole, concentrate on the content of the presentation, concentrate on what to say, making up what to say as I go, concentrate on how to say it in english as a foreign language AND then keep resonance good AND then also pitch - thats a bit too much. I think usually I do not too bad in resonance, but pitch just goes down in the 140-160 range.
Ok, I am almost 40 now, so I dont need to be up at 220 or so, but still 140-160 is way too low and androgynous at best.
I did some adjustments as well obviously now over a decade of being fulltime, but well, I only got it from 110 Hz to the 140-160 range in normal conversation which is not sufficient. I am not sure if I may even have lost some pitch range after transition when I was getting less "girly" and more "woman" with time and focussed more on work and such rather than play.
Hehe - I loved singing along for a while but never managed to match the pitch. I am not very musical and cant seem to match my voice well to others. I may try one of these programs they have now to train for singing. I think with these computer games that make you sing, there are some tools out there now that can help with that, just matching a tone and keeping it. I need to get the upper range up a bit, especially the speaking range.
But 700 Hz - can you destroy glasses by singing with that ;) :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 24, 2013, 04:09:19 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 24, 2013, 04:09:19 AM
My voice is doing this squeak thing now, too.. usually involuntarily sometimes when I laugh really hard. My pitch goes up anywhere from 700-1000hz. It's what I've been calling the squeak register :laugh: It seems that resonance is working for me in that register, too. I like the way it sounds.
It only happens when I'm having a good voice day... which comes from being well hydrated and well rested. Very important for the voice!
And on that note, g'night!
It only happens when I'm having a good voice day... which comes from being well hydrated and well rested. Very important for the voice!
And on that note, g'night!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 24, 2013, 08:01:10 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 24, 2013, 08:01:10 AM
I recorded a little message for you all ! :D
http://vocaroo.com/i/s07FIdks3hsJ
This is my natural speaking voice, unlike the rainbow passage which sort of forces me into a higher pitch due to the tone and inflection and what not.
That recording is about 177hz average - it starts a bit higher and goes down towards the end, which is something I am trying to work on. I also notice that my ands and umms and much lower and more masculine sounding which is just something mental that I need to readjust to.
But yeah like I said I'm happy with where it is right now. While I don't think it's super feminine sounding yet it is definitely gender neutral enough that I have no issues passing when combined with my overall presentation. It's great being able to go out and not worry about my voice, my confidence has improved a hundred fold just in the past week or so as my voice has really started to develop. :)
Edit: I wish I would have recorded myself doing a normal speaking voice before surgery! According to my documents I have from my voice therapy sessions my old normal speaking voice was about 110hz - so I've seen roughly 65-70hz increase! But Jessie does have my "after" recording for the before/after video for yeson so I'll be sure to post that as soon as I get it. :)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s07FIdks3hsJ
This is my natural speaking voice, unlike the rainbow passage which sort of forces me into a higher pitch due to the tone and inflection and what not.
That recording is about 177hz average - it starts a bit higher and goes down towards the end, which is something I am trying to work on. I also notice that my ands and umms and much lower and more masculine sounding which is just something mental that I need to readjust to.
But yeah like I said I'm happy with where it is right now. While I don't think it's super feminine sounding yet it is definitely gender neutral enough that I have no issues passing when combined with my overall presentation. It's great being able to go out and not worry about my voice, my confidence has improved a hundred fold just in the past week or so as my voice has really started to develop. :)
Edit: I wish I would have recorded myself doing a normal speaking voice before surgery! According to my documents I have from my voice therapy sessions my old normal speaking voice was about 110hz - so I've seen roughly 65-70hz increase! But Jessie does have my "after" recording for the before/after video for yeson so I'll be sure to post that as soon as I get it. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 24, 2013, 08:09:37 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 24, 2013, 08:09:37 AM
Abby,
You sound good right there and it is really amazing. If your voice never moved from that point to a higher pitch it would make no difference because your voice is now unmistakable female, female, female. Kudos!
You sound good right there and it is really amazing. If your voice never moved from that point to a higher pitch it would make no difference because your voice is now unmistakable female, female, female. Kudos!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on September 24, 2013, 08:11:38 AM
Post by: Carlita on September 24, 2013, 08:11:38 AM
Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 23, 2013, 02:39:55 PM
I wish i knew how to find out my Hz xD
Well, I was lucky. I went to a specialist vocal coach at Charing Cross Hospital in London (the UK's main centre for all trans treatments) and she told me. I've got to admit, I was really shocked when I realised how low I spoke. I'd never thought of myself as having that deep a voice and it was quite upsetting. But then she told me she could get me into the 170s, just by doing the right training, exercises, practice, etc and suddenly I was MUCH happier. If I could combine that kind of vocal therapy and surgery, I think a normal female range should definitely be achievable.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 24, 2013, 09:56:03 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 24, 2013, 09:56:03 AM
Thanks for the recent update. The pitch is ok I think, probably you will go up a notch from that still when you start speaking more, at least thats what I think was the case with Jenny? I noticed that you did not focus on resonance as you said. I think if you start doing that (again?) the voice will be even more definitely female. I personally think that as of now it is good. While not impossible, it is hard to imagine it coming from anyone not being female ;). So you finally got the 70 Hz as well, I remember you were worried about that. Weird though that the umms and such are lower still - but I guess these are more resonance sounds and as resonance does not change, the pitch of these sounds stays a bit lower unless one changes resonance???
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 24, 2013, 08:14:44 PM
Post by: sarahb on September 24, 2013, 08:14:44 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 24, 2013, 08:01:10 AM
I recorded a little message for you all ! :D
http://vocaroo.com/i/s07FIdks3hsJ
This is my natural speaking voice, unlike the rainbow passage which sort of forces me into a higher pitch due to the tone and inflection and what not.
That recording is about 177hz average - it starts a bit higher and goes down towards the end, which is something I am trying to work on. I also notice that my ands and umms and much lower and more masculine sounding which is just something mental that I need to readjust to.
But yeah like I said I'm happy with where it is right now. While I don't think it's super feminine sounding yet it is definitely gender neutral enough that I have no issues passing when combined with my overall presentation. It's great being able to go out and not worry about my voice, my confidence has improved a hundred fold just in the past week or so as my voice has really started to develop. :)
Edit: I wish I would have recorded myself doing a normal speaking voice before surgery! According to my documents I have from my voice therapy sessions my old normal speaking voice was about 110hz - so I've seen roughly 65-70hz increase! But Jessie does have my "after" recording for the before/after video for yeson so I'll be sure to post that as soon as I get it. :)
Very, very nice Abby! Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: bullwinklle on September 24, 2013, 10:35:02 PM
Post by: bullwinklle on September 24, 2013, 10:35:02 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 24, 2013, 08:01:10 AM
I recorded a little message for you all ! :D
http://vocaroo.com/i/s07FIdks3hsJ
Amazing! 2 paws up!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on September 26, 2013, 02:33:13 AM
Post by: Paige0000 on September 26, 2013, 02:33:13 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 24, 2013, 08:01:10 AM
I recorded a little message for you all ! :D
http://vocaroo.com/i/s07FIdks3hsJ
Wow Abby, I just can't believe the difference, I can't wait to hear you once fully healed, if this is anything to go by you will sound amazing! :)
Oh also a question regarding Yeson's how long would you say it takes to get a reply back from them via email? I sent a consultation email ( with Au live Hotmail) to them a couple days ago and have yet heard anything back.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 26, 2013, 08:15:42 AM
Post by: sarahb on September 26, 2013, 08:15:42 AM
Quote from: Paige0000 on September 26, 2013, 02:33:13 AM
Wow Abby, I just can't believe the difference, I can't wait to hear you once fully healed, if this is anything to go by you will sound amazing! :)
Oh also a question regarding Yeson's how long would you say it takes to get a reply back from them via email? I sent a consultation email ( with Au live Hotmail) to them a couple days ago and have yet heard anything back.
I got a reply within the first 24 hours. They are 16 hours ahead of me so replies usually come at odd times. Maybe check your spam folder. So far after maybe 5 or 6 emails they've responded within 24 hours, or as soon as possible when it was over a weekend.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 26, 2013, 08:17:02 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 26, 2013, 08:17:02 AM
Quote from: Paige0000 on September 26, 2013, 02:33:13 AM
Wow Abby, I just can't believe the difference, I can't wait to hear you once fully healed, if this is anything to go by you will sound amazing! :)
Oh also a question regarding Yeson's how long would you say it takes to get a reply back from them via email? I sent a consultation email ( with Au live Hotmail) to them a couple days ago and have yet heard anything back.
My first e-mail they apparently didn't get, so I resent it after waiting like a week. Jessie was super apologetic and after that I always got a response by the next day.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on September 26, 2013, 04:34:31 PM
Post by: Paige0000 on September 26, 2013, 04:34:31 PM
Well I sent another and Jessie replied only a few hours later so I'm guessing my first email must not have been received as Jessie made no mention of it. Oh well at least things seem to be a ok now :).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 06:54:16 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 06:54:16 AM
Hey everyone, Yeson uploaded my before/after clip. You can listen to it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIPEDCxMx3g
I forgot how deep my voice used to be!!
I forgot how deep my voice used to be!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Bookworm on September 30, 2013, 09:19:10 AM
Post by: Bookworm on September 30, 2013, 09:19:10 AM
I will look when I get home. I am glad of the good news.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on September 30, 2013, 10:07:52 AM
Post by: sarahb on September 30, 2013, 10:07:52 AM
Well, another great example of their work. Thanks abby for sharing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 30, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 30, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 06:54:16 AM
Hey everyone, Yeson uploaded my before/after clip.
I forgot how deep my voice used to be!!
OMG Abby, it's like the difference between night and day, what an amazing change! Well worth every cent and all the time and effort you spent on getting it done. Thanks for sharing hon!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 30, 2013, 10:56:44 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 30, 2013, 10:56:44 AM
Wow Abby!! Truly night and day! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 11:23:41 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 11:23:41 AM
Whoa - thats ... O.O <3
Is this your unmodified pre-op voice and if so did you also compare pre-op trained/modified voice with post-op voice? Just asking because if I would put up my original voice now - if I can manage to actually do it - it would be probably even deeper. But I never fall back to that I think. So I would be curious to see a comparison between the voice you used daily before op compared to post-op, in case you did already modify the voice pre-op by some effort.
Is this your unmodified pre-op voice and if so did you also compare pre-op trained/modified voice with post-op voice? Just asking because if I would put up my original voice now - if I can manage to actually do it - it would be probably even deeper. But I never fall back to that I think. So I would be curious to see a comparison between the voice you used daily before op compared to post-op, in case you did already modify the voice pre-op by some effort.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 11:53:30 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 11:53:30 AM
Thanks everyone :)
Yes, that is my unmodified pre-op voice. They recorded my feminine voice doing that reading, which was around 170hz.
But the pre-op voice is the one I did use daily since my feminine voice didn't sound great and was difficult to use in public. Thankfully I was only full-time for a few weeks before my surgery.
Quote from: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 11:23:41 AM
Whoa - thats ... O.O <3
Is this your unmodified pre-op voice and if so did you also compare pre-op trained/modified voice with post-op voice? Just asking because if I would put up my original voice now - if I can manage to actually do it - it would be probably even deeper. But I never fall back to that I think. So I would be curious to see a comparison between the voice you used daily before op compared to post-op, in case you did already modify the voice pre-op by some effort.
Yes, that is my unmodified pre-op voice. They recorded my feminine voice doing that reading, which was around 170hz.
But the pre-op voice is the one I did use daily since my feminine voice didn't sound great and was difficult to use in public. Thankfully I was only full-time for a few weeks before my surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 30, 2013, 12:04:21 PM
Post by: Shantel on September 30, 2013, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 11:53:30 AM
Thanks everyone :)
Yes, that is my unmodified pre-op voice. They recorded my feminine voice doing that reading, which was around 170hz.
But the pre-op voice is the one I did use daily since my feminine voice didn't sound great and was difficult to use in public. Thankfully I was only full-time for a few weeks before my surgery.
Your darned good looking and sound terrific, so nothing is going to out you from this point on Abby, just a terrific transition! :icon_bunch:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 12:13:33 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Shantel on September 30, 2013, 12:04:21 PM
Your darned good looking and sound terrific, so nothing is going to out you from this point on Abby, just a terrific transition! :icon_bunch:
Thank you! My pictures are hiding my forehead though, so those in the know can clock me pretty easily. But overall I'm happy with where I'm at at this stage. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 01:16:13 PM
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 01:16:13 PM
The forehead cannot be that bad if you can hide it in that picture, Abby ;)
So did you also read the same passage in a feminine pre op voice? It would be interesting possibly to compare those. Good for you you did that very soon. I think it will make a lot of things easier for you, seeing how well that one went :)
I personally still would much rather use my feminine voice in public than what I had before, even if it seems that it really is not so good - at least it is somewhat passable in combination with myself. The older one - no chance in hell ;) . But I guess it is smarter to do it like you did. I think I damaged my vocal cords from years of doing what I do. And getting a cold now to the 10th time or so this year does not help either :(
So did you also read the same passage in a feminine pre op voice? It would be interesting possibly to compare those. Good for you you did that very soon. I think it will make a lot of things easier for you, seeing how well that one went :)
I personally still would much rather use my feminine voice in public than what I had before, even if it seems that it really is not so good - at least it is somewhat passable in combination with myself. The older one - no chance in hell ;) . But I guess it is smarter to do it like you did. I think I damaged my vocal cords from years of doing what I do. And getting a cold now to the 10th time or so this year does not help either :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 30, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Post by: Shantel on September 30, 2013, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 01:16:13 PM
The forehead cannot be that bad if you can hide it in that picture, Abby ;)
Probably like so many still envisioning their former self every time they look into a mirror. She's gorgeous, there's nothing wrong with her forehead, it's what's inside her head that has to catch up with her new reality! Shush, she'll hear us talking about her. :D ;D :laugh:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 01:31:25 PM
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 01:31:25 PM
yeah right, Shantel. I could probably show a pic of mine and go on about how it looks so male-ish and no one would believe me either ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 02:18:38 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 02:18:38 PM
Lol, I know part of it is me seeing my old self, but trust me it's masculine - I have the trifecta of sloped forehead, brow ridge, and temporal lines.
Anyway to answer your question Anjaq, yes they did record me doing it in my feminine voice. I'll ask Jessie if she can send me the file.
Anyway to answer your question Anjaq, yes they did record me doing it in my feminine voice. I'll ask Jessie if she can send me the file.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
Post by: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
Well if that is so then you did a terrific job at hiding that in the picture because I see none of that at all. Or at least not substantial enough to require action. Or did you photoshop it ;)
But thanks for looking for the recording. Thats interesting.
But thanks for looking for the recording. Thats interesting.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on September 30, 2013, 07:45:37 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on September 30, 2013, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: anjaq on September 30, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
Well if that is so then you did a terrific job at hiding that in the picture because I see none of that at all. Or at least not substantial enough to require action.
+1. You gawgeous! :D :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Antonia J on September 30, 2013, 09:35:44 PM
Post by: Antonia J on September 30, 2013, 09:35:44 PM
Abby - that is amazing. Thank you for being so open and sharing. Your journey is quite inspiring! Toni
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 06:01:01 AM
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 06:01:01 AM
hi. I'm happy for you, Abby, your voice is natural, this surgery reassures me when I see the result. My doctor's voice in paris, taught me a great news! I show him the technique Yeson voice center and its results, it is not surprise. For her, this is the best technical surgery today. For 20 years, the service of the best voices of France, in Paris, Practical surgery of the voice (femization, cancer, ...), but the result was random, because techique aproximation cricopharyngeal thyoridiene is often disappointing (voice hoarse, electric, volume loss, ....) even if it Practical by a very good surgeon. Before my doctor's voice, would send his patient who had a very masculine voice, For people with an androgynous female voice between both team paris discourage the operation because the risk was too great. Over the past year, the team performs paris even technical Yeson voice center, My doctor told me that the voice its superb result. Today my voice is androgynous female, but in public, I still can not use my voice with stress. I'm study Realtor, I love communicating with gents! and the voice is very important in this trade! My doctor advised me the operation on the operation. They perform the operation on 15 patient and not failure. But my doctor told me, after the operation, it is necessary to work the resonance and intonation. I can not give you the coordinate of the service, in paris, I ask if I can serve to advertise internationally. In France my operation would reimburse 100%. When you make a transition in France, and is followed by a psychiatrist and endrocrinologue official, hormones and consultations and srs are reimbursed at 100%, my laser hair removal 50%, ffs if the person is very masculine. But I prefer to do my srs with Suporn which for me is the best, in France made progress in srs but I do not totally trust ais! I give you the coordinate service if it allows me, in France the law prohibits the surgeon to the pub, unlike other countries, it is frowned upon, each country has different custom. The surgeons are very good reputation among the patient (forum ...). Most gliomas so dificult in France when you make a transition is the change of paper, must be operating to begin the process and is very long! I love my country but there is the thing that gets on my nerves deeply. France is a country that loves to morale countries and appears when the country of human rights! But the story and go from France is not wonderful, (war, nuclear tests, colonization, after the usa, russia, china, country sells more weapons, sending his old military ship in countries poor, ..). Excuse me, I'm me depart the main subject. France is among the countries where life is very expensive, but prices are very correct operations. The same operation as in Paris Yeson would estimate up to $ 3,000, the price of hotels in paris are between 100 and 200 dollard night. I think to have surgery in 4-6 months, I would testify to my experience in Paris.
I can not seem to put a picture of me on my avatar
for people who do not know me, I have a presentation to me on page 22.
Sorry, my english writing is not terrible
I can not seem to put a picture of me on my avatar
for people who do not know me, I have a presentation to me on page 22.
Sorry, my english writing is not terrible
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 06:34:02 AM
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 06:34:02 AM
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KOAuMfTd7y
Here is a recording of my voice, my English is not great and I have French intonnation
my normal human voice is 130 Hz, and my female voice is 170 Hz, sometimes I can best assets a resonance, but it is very hard to control the pitch and resonance simultaneously.
Here is a recording of my voice, my English is not great and I have French intonnation
my normal human voice is 130 Hz, and my female voice is 170 Hz, sometimes I can best assets a resonance, but it is very hard to control the pitch and resonance simultaneously.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 02, 2013, 07:03:57 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 02, 2013, 07:03:57 AM
Hello, to France, we are in global terms neighbors then. Here in Germany it seems that it is at least possible to get insurance cover for voice surgery, but I am not sure. It seems that you need to jump through a couple of hops for that. We also have a lot of the same benefits as in france in respect to surgeries covered by insurances, so we are kind of spoiled in terms of not paying much for transition. I assume that in France you have the same issue with going out of the country, that is the insurance will not cover it if you go to a different country to do a voice surgery or SRS? This is kind of really mean, you are faced with the decision then to do it locally (in Germany voice surgery seems to be done in Berlin with the same technique) with doctors who may not have as much experience because they do mostly other surgeries and this is only less than 1% or so. Or you have the choice to go to a different country and go to Korea for example, but then you have to pay a lot for it, while otherwise you would get it on insurance. I find it hard to judge if the skill of Yeson compard to the skill of the people in Europe is really that much different that it is worth spending roughly $10000 more on it.
Its idiotic anyways I believe. The insurance probably would save money sending people to Korea instead of Berlin. Esp as they don't need to cover hotel and flight. I am sure the people in Berlin will charge the insurance more than the $7000 Yeson charges. But thats the system :s
I like your voice, Margeaux - if surgery allows you to keep that at all times and not just when you really watch it, it would be nice for you. It is a lower pitch, but still female and sounds good. I think in Europe voices of women generally have a lower pitch than in the USA - I read a study on that recently. Seems that women are using higher pitch in the USA than in Germany. Thats some cultural difference. I dont know about France, though.
A big question to Jenny and Abby though as I saw again resonance training being mentioned:
If you already looked into it or have begun it (or still use some techniques from before) - in what way do you have to train resonance. I always focussed a lot on the elimination of chest resonance which is done as we all probably know by pulling up the voicebox. Now I learned that the other part of resonance is to improve head resonance. So you have to focus on both of them after the surgery, do you still need to do as much control on the chest resonance as before, or is resonance control easier for the chest resonance and you focus more on getting head resonance up to make the voice fuller and louder?
Thank you
Its idiotic anyways I believe. The insurance probably would save money sending people to Korea instead of Berlin. Esp as they don't need to cover hotel and flight. I am sure the people in Berlin will charge the insurance more than the $7000 Yeson charges. But thats the system :s
I like your voice, Margeaux - if surgery allows you to keep that at all times and not just when you really watch it, it would be nice for you. It is a lower pitch, but still female and sounds good. I think in Europe voices of women generally have a lower pitch than in the USA - I read a study on that recently. Seems that women are using higher pitch in the USA than in Germany. Thats some cultural difference. I dont know about France, though.
A big question to Jenny and Abby though as I saw again resonance training being mentioned:
If you already looked into it or have begun it (or still use some techniques from before) - in what way do you have to train resonance. I always focussed a lot on the elimination of chest resonance which is done as we all probably know by pulling up the voicebox. Now I learned that the other part of resonance is to improve head resonance. So you have to focus on both of them after the surgery, do you still need to do as much control on the chest resonance as before, or is resonance control easier for the chest resonance and you focus more on getting head resonance up to make the voice fuller and louder?
Thank you
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 02, 2013, 08:59:23 AM
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 02, 2013, 08:59:23 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on September 30, 2013, 06:54:16 AM
Hey everyone, Yeson uploaded my before/after clip. You can listen to it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIPEDCxMx3g
I forgot how deep my voice used to be!!
The change is sooooo RADICAL!!! :o
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 02, 2013, 09:00:11 AM
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 02, 2013, 09:00:11 AM
Quote from: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 06:34:02 AM
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0KOAuMfTd7y
Here is a recording of my voice, my English is not great and I have French intonnation
my normal human voice is 130 Hz, and my female voice is 170 Hz, sometimes I can best assets a resonance, but it is very hard to control the pitch and resonance simultaneously.
Did you do with Yeson as well? Very impressing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 09:37:04 AM
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 09:37:04 AM
thank you, no, I have not done surgery voice is female voice with my training, it's very hard for me to keep it constantly and I think it still sounds a male can.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 02, 2013, 09:49:21 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 02, 2013, 09:49:21 AM
Margeaux, I don't think it sounds male at all. Its a good voice really. I guess the only reason to do a surgery on that voice is if you have trouble keeping it, if it strains too much or such. Funny how it seems to be taken for a post-surgery voice even :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on October 02, 2013, 09:50:49 AM
Post by: Shantel on October 02, 2013, 09:50:49 AM
Quote from: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 09:37:04 AM
thank you, no, I have not done surgery voice is female voice with my training, it's very hard for me to keep it constantly and I think it still sounds a male can.
Margaux,
It is a very feminine female voice to be sure, but keeping constant is always such a problem for everyone. That is the beauty of what Jenny, Abby and others have achieved at Yeson, because now it is no longer anything they have to think about, work at or be concerned about. Very nice voice recording though, thank you for sharing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 10:11:42 AM
Post by: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 10:11:42 AM
Here is my normal voice guy, unfortunately, I can not keep my voice constantly, (tired, sore throat, stress), but I will never back down to 130 hz, if I speak without thinking I should be around 150 hz but this is too low for her to be a female voice. I understand jenny abby and why we do the surgery. My doctor's voice is not worried, because I master the resonance. The transaction increases the height, it is a comfort, but it is the resonance that makes the difference and intonnation.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Bws1tk4LQI
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on October 02, 2013, 10:15:56 AM
Post by: Shantel on October 02, 2013, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: margaux29 on October 02, 2013, 10:11:42 AM
Here is my normal voice guy, unfortunately, I can not keep my voice constantly, (tired, sore throat, stress), but I will never back down to 130 hz, if I speak without thinking I should be around 150 hz but this is too low for her to be a female voice. I understand jenny abby and why we do the surgery. My doctor's voice is not worried, because I master the resonance. The transaction increases the height, it is a comfort, but it is the resonance that makes the difference and intonnation.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Bws1tk4LQI
Quite a remarkable difference from female to male voice. Still, even your male voice has a certain soft lilt to it that is a little unlike many males, perhaps it's because you are French?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 01:59:14 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 01:59:14 AM
So a little story.. I got my new cell phone today (the galaxy note 3 - it is huuge and awesome!! ;)). I called AT&T because I wanted to change my phone number along with getting the new phone, and I verified all of my info using my old name because I still hadn't changed it. When I told the lady on the line that I wanted to change my number, she kind of laughed and asked me... "So be honest with me, are you just some crazy girlfriend trying to screw with your ex?"
She really doubted me at first, but then I told her that I was trans and that there was nothing I could do to sound any different because I had a voice surgery. After a few details about my transition, I finally made a believer out of her. She then became so happy for me that she ended up waiving the fee to change numbers and sent me on my merry way!
To avoid any further confusion, I also had her switch the name on the account. Another one down!
Kinda makes me laugh because I realized how easy it would be for someone posing as someone else to play a fake trans card over the phone. Like.. if I actually was just a crazy ex and told her I was trans to get out of being found out, someone could really wreak havoc on an account as long as they had the right information. Lol...
Either way, it is yet another shining example of how badly I male-fail all over the phone anymore. I was actually trying to lower my pitch a little bit at first and it still wasn't enough to make my voice be read as anything but female. I had to be down in the 150-160hz range because I also have a cold, but it still wasn't enough. This surgery is absolutely priceless, and I'm so incredibly happy for all of us that it exists.
She really doubted me at first, but then I told her that I was trans and that there was nothing I could do to sound any different because I had a voice surgery. After a few details about my transition, I finally made a believer out of her. She then became so happy for me that she ended up waiving the fee to change numbers and sent me on my merry way!
To avoid any further confusion, I also had her switch the name on the account. Another one down!
Kinda makes me laugh because I realized how easy it would be for someone posing as someone else to play a fake trans card over the phone. Like.. if I actually was just a crazy ex and told her I was trans to get out of being found out, someone could really wreak havoc on an account as long as they had the right information. Lol...
Either way, it is yet another shining example of how badly I male-fail all over the phone anymore. I was actually trying to lower my pitch a little bit at first and it still wasn't enough to make my voice be read as anything but female. I had to be down in the 150-160hz range because I also have a cold, but it still wasn't enough. This surgery is absolutely priceless, and I'm so incredibly happy for all of us that it exists.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 03, 2013, 05:53:52 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 03, 2013, 05:53:52 AM
Haha - nice story :)
I liked the "i cannot go lower" part ;)
But dont give the crazy ex girlfriends any ideas there, maybe in the future it would be not so easy for us anymore to get things done that way if some ex girlfriends pulled that number ;)
Curious though - if you go down to 150 and stop resonance control - would you manage to sound androgynous then? From what I heard resonance makes a huge difference and you seem to be really good at doing that right... did some of that change with voice surgery?
I liked the "i cannot go lower" part ;)
But dont give the crazy ex girlfriends any ideas there, maybe in the future it would be not so easy for us anymore to get things done that way if some ex girlfriends pulled that number ;)
Curious though - if you go down to 150 and stop resonance control - would you manage to sound androgynous then? From what I heard resonance makes a huge difference and you seem to be really good at doing that right... did some of that change with voice surgery?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 03, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 03, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: anjaq on October 03, 2013, 05:53:52 AM
Haha - nice story :)
I liked the "i cannot go lower" part ;)
But dont give the crazy ex girlfriends any ideas there, maybe in the future it would be not so easy for us anymore to get things done that way if some ex girlfriends pulled that number ;)
Curious though - if you go down to 150 and stop resonance control - would you manage to sound androgynous then? From what I heard resonance makes a huge difference and you seem to be really good at doing that right... did some of that change with voice surgery?
Resonance is literally the defining difference, IMHO. You can have a high pitch with the typical chest resonance, and you'll just sound like a boy. Really though, it's usually good to start with a lower pitch than what your goal is and slowing creep your way up through comfort. Don't just push it up there and fight for it, take it slow!
Oh, and here's where I'm at right now, I thought about this surgery for a while, but anymore I think it'll be one of the last things I get done. Let me know what you guys think!
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0qvr5NWLunM
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on October 03, 2013, 12:09:08 PM
Post by: Shantel on October 03, 2013, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Sierra Belle on October 03, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Resonance is literally the defining difference, IMHO. You can have a high pitch with the typical chest resonance, and you'll just sound like a boy. Really though, it's usually good to start with a lower pitch than what your goal is and slowing creep your way up through comfort. Don't just push it up there and fight for it, take it slow!
Oh, and here's where I'm at right now, I thought about this surgery for a while, but anymore I think it'll be one of the last things I get done. Let me know what you guys think!
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0qvr5NWLunM
Good advice, love your voice!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on October 03, 2013, 12:31:17 PM
Post by: Carlita on October 03, 2013, 12:31:17 PM
Quote from: Sierra Belle on October 03, 2013, 11:23:24 AM
Resonance is literally the defining difference, IMHO. You can have a high pitch with the typical chest resonance, and you'll just sound like a boy. Really though, it's usually good to start with a lower pitch than what your goal is and slowing creep your way up through comfort. Don't just push it up there and fight for it, take it slow!
Oh, and here's where I'm at right now, I thought about this surgery for a while, but anymore I think it'll be one of the last things I get done. Let me know what you guys think!
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0qvr5NWLunM
That sounds totally feminine ... if you can maintain that voice without strain - and also cough, laugh, giggle and sigh in a female way then I don't see you'll need surgery. The only reason to do it would be to create the relaxation that comes from removing the lower register from your range. But really, you sound great!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 03, 2013, 12:35:49 PM
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 03, 2013, 12:35:49 PM
Quote from: Carlita on October 03, 2013, 12:31:17 PM
That sounds totally feminine ... if you can maintain that voice without strain - and also cough, laugh, giggle and sigh in a female way then I don't see you'll need surgery. The only reason to do it would be to create the relaxation that comes from removing the lower register from your range. But really, you sound great!
Laughs hiccup very occasionally, but it's not enough to out me, I can sigh and cough feminine. (I do naturally)
It's pretty well replaced my old voice, I literally have to try to drop down now. I was so excited when I realized I don't strain any more. :)
I also realized, I have a much better singing voice now than I did before.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 12:50:55 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 12:50:55 PM
Sierra Belle- I like your voice a lot, it sounds very feminine. You definitely don't need voice surgery imo- especially if you can maintain and use that voice! My only constructive crit is to work a little bit on extending your pitch dynamics- it would add even more feminine sound to your voice. Your voice does pass as is, but it sounds slightly monotone. I am working on the same issue :)
As far as what my voice sounds like at lower pitches, no it doesn't sound the same. If I really opened up my throat a lot to increase resonance back to what it was (the muscles are now trained to stay in a certain position) it just sounds kind of like a girl trying to imitate a guy.. I think most of it is because things get a little raspy and it's obvious that I have no lower range. Also the slight thinning of the vocal cords may have something to do w/ it.
As far as what my voice sounds like at lower pitches, no it doesn't sound the same. If I really opened up my throat a lot to increase resonance back to what it was (the muscles are now trained to stay in a certain position) it just sounds kind of like a girl trying to imitate a guy.. I think most of it is because things get a little raspy and it's obvious that I have no lower range. Also the slight thinning of the vocal cords may have something to do w/ it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 03, 2013, 12:56:54 PM
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 03, 2013, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 12:50:55 PM
Sierra Belle- I like your voice a lot, it sounds very feminine. You definitely don't need voice surgery imo- especially if you can maintain and use that voice! My only constructive crit is to work a little bit on extending your pitch dynamics- it would add even more feminine sound to your voice. Your voice does pass as is, but it sounds slightly monotone. I am working on the same issue :)
As far as what my voice sounds like at lower pitches, no it doesn't sound the same. If I really opened up my throat a lot to increase resonance back to what it was (the muscles are now trained to stay in a certain position) it just sounds kind of like a girl trying to imitate a guy.. I think most of it is because things get a little raspy and it's obvious that I have no lower range. Also the slight thinning of the vocal cords may have something to do w/ it.
Yep, I was actually gonna say that but I cut it short. I know my voice is very monotonous, but ya know. It's only been a few months, I think I'll get there eventually. It used to be A LOT worse!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 03, 2013, 04:02:31 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 03, 2013, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 01:59:14 AM
So a little story.. I got my new cell phone today (the galaxy note 3 - it is huuge and awesome!! ;)). I called AT&T because I wanted to change my phone number along with getting the new phone, and I verified all of my info using my old name because I still hadn't changed it. When I told the lady on the line that I wanted to change my number, she kind of laughed and asked me... "So be honest with me, are you just some crazy girlfriend trying to screw with your ex?"
She really doubted me at first, but then I told her that I was trans and that there was nothing I could do to sound any different because I had a voice surgery. After a few details about my transition, I finally made a believer out of her. She then became so happy for me that she ended up waiving the fee to change numbers and sent me on my merry way!
To avoid any further confusion, I also had her switch the name on the account. Another one down!
Kinda makes me laugh because I realized how easy it would be for someone posing as someone else to play a fake trans card over the phone. Like.. if I actually was just a crazy ex and told her I was trans to get out of being found out, someone could really wreak havoc on an account as long as they had the right information. Lol...
Either way, it is yet another shining example of how badly I male-fail all over the phone anymore. I was actually trying to lower my pitch a little bit at first and it still wasn't enough to make my voice be read as anything but female. I had to be down in the 150-160hz range because I also have a cold, but it still wasn't enough. This surgery is absolutely priceless, and I'm so incredibly happy for all of us that it exists.
Such a great story, and it shows just how successful the surgery was for you! By the way, not to keep bringing this up, but do you have plans any time to do another video, or at least a short audio clip? It'd be cool to see if there any changes from your 2-month video now that you are 4+ months post-op. And *ahem* how's that singing voice coming along :)
And congrats on the new phone. I have no clue how people tote around such huge phones lol.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
Well right now I'm in the middle of a cloggy sinus infection- all holed up in my room recovering. But if you are still curious to hear what I sound like while I'm a bit under the weather, here it is:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0zrQ0Wf3ca8
These are literally the first words I've said all day, so my voice is not even the least bit warmed up. The fundamental pitch is (as I expected) a little bit lower than normal for me and coming in at 193hz (normally I'm at 205hz for relaxed speaking). Still with the sickness and un-warmed-up voice, I have no pain or strain whatsoever. At least the cold decided to stay away from my throat this time :)
When I'm up to full steam I'll do another clip.. or perhaps a video. Right now, I would probably run away from any camera within a 20ft radius ;)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0zrQ0Wf3ca8
These are literally the first words I've said all day, so my voice is not even the least bit warmed up. The fundamental pitch is (as I expected) a little bit lower than normal for me and coming in at 193hz (normally I'm at 205hz for relaxed speaking). Still with the sickness and un-warmed-up voice, I have no pain or strain whatsoever. At least the cold decided to stay away from my throat this time :)
When I'm up to full steam I'll do another clip.. or perhaps a video. Right now, I would probably run away from any camera within a 20ft radius ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 03, 2013, 06:58:23 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 03, 2013, 06:58:23 PM
That voice still is incredible. Cold or no cold. Wow, sooooo impressive. I think you also just have a beautiful voice in terms of tone and all that - no matter now pitch or surgery - it just is a very friendly voice you have there.
I think you lost resonance at one moment and it sounded basically just like you had a bit of a cold there which is what you do, not at all that what people keep saying that if one doesnt control resonance well or looses resonance control at some moments for any reason at all one sounds like "a guy trying to speak in a high pitch" - i dont think thats the case with you at all, Jenny, even if you loose some resonance control to the cold, so you are really lucky there. Congrats!
I think you lost resonance at one moment and it sounded basically just like you had a bit of a cold there which is what you do, not at all that what people keep saying that if one doesnt control resonance well or looses resonance control at some moments for any reason at all one sounds like "a guy trying to speak in a high pitch" - i dont think thats the case with you at all, Jenny, even if you loose some resonance control to the cold, so you are really lucky there. Congrats!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 08:20:51 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 08:20:51 PM
Quote from: anjaq on October 03, 2013, 06:58:23 PM
That voice still is incredible. Cold or no cold. Wow, sooooo impressive. I think you also just have a beautiful voice in terms of tone and all that - no matter now pitch or surgery - it just is a very friendly voice you have there.
I think you lost resonance at one moment and it sounded basically just like you had a bit of a cold there which is what you do, not at all that what people keep saying that if one doesnt control resonance well or looses resonance control at some moments for any reason at all one sounds like "a guy trying to speak in a high pitch" - i dont think thats the case with you at all, Jenny, even if you loose some resonance control to the cold, so you are really lucky there. Congrats!
Aw thanks Anja- I'm glad you like my voice and think it still sounds female :) I'm super happy with it, and to know that others like it too is part of where that happiness comes from. So thanks!!
What you said is very kind and brought a smile to my face on a sickly day. I really appreciate it.
I do think I hear what you mean with a moment of losing resonance. I think my sinuses being clogged are making praat do weird things. Spectral analysis says I'm in the 3.2-4.5k range for spectral power, and female voice is supposed to be 3.0-3.5. Actually the moment when I said "yesterday" (0:30) sounds like the best example, the resonance seems to drop a little but that was actually one of the highest frequency moments of spectral power which seems backwards. I was expecting to see 2.2k and instead it was 4.5k... quite possibly due to my sinus cavities being swollen and resonating a higher harmonic? Dunno for sure. It's interesting though :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 04, 2013, 02:29:31 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 04, 2013, 02:29:31 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 08:20:51 PMYes, you really dont have to worry at all. Its amazing :)
Aw thanks Anja- I'm glad you like my voice and think it still sounds female :) I'm super happy with it, and to know that others like it too is part of where that happiness comes from. So thanks!!
QuoteSpectral analysis says I'm in the 3.2-4.5k range for spectral power, and female voice is supposed to be 3.0-3.5.I thought I'd PMd you about praat but maybe that got lost. Aksing how to use it properly for analysis. Can you give me a small bit here on how to use that spectral analysis you mentioned? How to get that reading and what it mens (and what to change to make it fit the desired range).
thx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on October 04, 2013, 07:27:59 AM
Post by: Carlita on October 04, 2013, 07:27:59 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
Well right now I'm in the middle of a cloggy sinus infection- all holed up in my room recovering. But if you are still curious to hear what I sound like while I'm a bit under the weather, here it is:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0zrQ0Wf3ca8
These are literally the first words I've said all day, so my voice is not even the least bit warmed up. The fundamental pitch is (as I expected) a little bit lower than normal for me and coming in at 193hz (normally I'm at 205hz for relaxed speaking). Still with the sickness and un-warmed-up voice, I have no pain or strain whatsoever. At least the cold decided to stay away from my throat this time :)
When I'm up to full steam I'll do another clip.. or perhaps a video. Right now, I would probably run away from any camera within a 20ft radius ;)
Your vice sounds 100% feminine and it's not just the pitch, or resonance or any of the technical stuff, it's the actual way you speak ... the pace, word-patterns, intonation, slight moments of nervous hesitancy. I'd say it's really come on a long way since your operation and my guess is that it's all part of the process of relaxation. Like learning to drive ... there's a point when you just don't think about the pedals, the gears, the indicators, etc - you just drive. Now, you don't have to think about how you produce your voice. You just talk. And the more you talk with a woman's voice, the more your speech itself becomes female. It's cute!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 04, 2013, 12:32:28 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 04, 2013, 12:32:28 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 03, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
Well right now I'm in the middle of a cloggy sinus infection- all holed up in my room recovering. But if you are still curious to hear what I sound like while I'm a bit under the weather, here it is:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0zrQ0Wf3ca8
These are literally the first words I've said all day, so my voice is not even the least bit warmed up. The fundamental pitch is (as I expected) a little bit lower than normal for me and coming in at 193hz (normally I'm at 205hz for relaxed speaking). Still with the sickness and un-warmed-up voice, I have no pain or strain whatsoever. At least the cold decided to stay away from my throat this time :)
When I'm up to full steam I'll do another clip.. or perhaps a video. Right now, I would probably run away from any camera within a 20ft radius ;)
Yep, still sounds absolutely amazing Jenny! Even with you being sick it sounds perfectly female. I appreciate you doing a recording while you're all sick, and I hope you feel better soon!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 04, 2013, 01:37:28 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 04, 2013, 01:37:28 PM
Ahh thank you both so very much!!!! :D That is great to hear!
I'll do another clip once I'm all better :)
I'll do another clip once I'm all better :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 04, 2013, 02:28:10 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 04, 2013, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: anjaq on October 04, 2013, 02:29:31 AM
I thought I'd PMd you about praat but maybe that got lost. Aksing how to use it properly for analysis. Can you give me a small bit here on how to use that spectral analysis you mentioned? How to get that reading and what it mens (and what to change to make it fit the desired range).
thx
When I saw your PM I decided to make a tutorial. Then my internet went kablam, and I forgot to post it! Here it is (in the voice therapy forum):
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 04, 2013, 03:44:21 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 04, 2013, 03:44:21 PM
Oh cool, Jenny, thanks :) I will check it out right away.
I dont know if I asked you that before but just because I tried some things while driving today with singing - there is that point where the voice breaks on the high pitch and then I think from there it goes into falsetto. I hit that when I tried to sing along with the Clockwork Dolls music I had in the car. I noticed that it breaks rather soon at a relatively low pitch. Did you notice any change in that point after your surgery? Maybe you notice while singing? You said that you can overall go more up in pitch at the upper end, but the upper end is already that falsetto - the intersting part would be if that breaking point changes and maybe if your research on the topic before you went to do it turned up anything along these lines? The general ssumption I read is that this surgery basically only cuts the lower part and maybe increases the all upper end a tiny bit. The reason is that if that breaking point stays, I probably should not aim for a pitch above 180Hz or so as speaking range as otherwise I would always hit that breaking point if I do use pitch shifts in speaking (you know - high pitch for some words or therelike). Thats true now if I try to shift pitch up from my rather low Hz speaking voice into something like 200 Hz - I end up rather low volume (that can be trained) but I also hit that upper limit when speaking. Mayve you have some info on that from your experience and the seemingly extensive pre-surgery research you have done on this :)
Thanks,
I dont know if I asked you that before but just because I tried some things while driving today with singing - there is that point where the voice breaks on the high pitch and then I think from there it goes into falsetto. I hit that when I tried to sing along with the Clockwork Dolls music I had in the car. I noticed that it breaks rather soon at a relatively low pitch. Did you notice any change in that point after your surgery? Maybe you notice while singing? You said that you can overall go more up in pitch at the upper end, but the upper end is already that falsetto - the intersting part would be if that breaking point changes and maybe if your research on the topic before you went to do it turned up anything along these lines? The general ssumption I read is that this surgery basically only cuts the lower part and maybe increases the all upper end a tiny bit. The reason is that if that breaking point stays, I probably should not aim for a pitch above 180Hz or so as speaking range as otherwise I would always hit that breaking point if I do use pitch shifts in speaking (you know - high pitch for some words or therelike). Thats true now if I try to shift pitch up from my rather low Hz speaking voice into something like 200 Hz - I end up rather low volume (that can be trained) but I also hit that upper limit when speaking. Mayve you have some info on that from your experience and the seemingly extensive pre-surgery research you have done on this :)
Thanks,
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jennifer@ on October 05, 2013, 08:05:23 AM
Post by: jennifer@ on October 05, 2013, 08:05:23 AM
First off I would like to thank Jenny for starting this thread and for sharing her VFS experience. It has been really helpful.
A little history about transition. I started my transition in 2010. After losing my job I went back to school and earned two degrees and got a new job with a great company that is TG friendly (my insurance also covers GRS). Things have finally started to come together and time is flying by. I'll be going to Korea in Dec of this year for my VFS. When I return I will be living full time as Jennifer. I'm not sure when to change all my state and federal ID's, before I leave or after I return. So I have a few questions for the ladies that have been to Korea.
1. Did you go to Korea as female? If so, did run into issue when trying to enter or leave, problems using your credit cards?
2. What hotel would you recommend?
3. Places to eat?
4. Anything other things I should know that would help.
A little history about transition. I started my transition in 2010. After losing my job I went back to school and earned two degrees and got a new job with a great company that is TG friendly (my insurance also covers GRS). Things have finally started to come together and time is flying by. I'll be going to Korea in Dec of this year for my VFS. When I return I will be living full time as Jennifer. I'm not sure when to change all my state and federal ID's, before I leave or after I return. So I have a few questions for the ladies that have been to Korea.
1. Did you go to Korea as female? If so, did run into issue when trying to enter or leave, problems using your credit cards?
2. What hotel would you recommend?
3. Places to eat?
4. Anything other things I should know that would help.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on October 06, 2013, 12:34:53 AM
Post by: Paige0000 on October 06, 2013, 12:34:53 AM
Quick question Jenny. I was wondering did this surgery help your ability to emit a high pitched feminine scream? I've always wished I had the ability to scream a high pitched scream just like a lot of females can but when I try raising my vocals to such a degree all I get is a squeak or no sound at all.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 12:40:40 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 12:40:40 AM
Anja- Your question about the range changes with Yeson I cannot fully answer yet, my range is still changing. They say that you don't lose any range at all.. and I'm still getting mine back.. so no way to tell for sure in my case yet. Full recovery is after 12months.
Jennifer- Yes, I was full time before I went to Korea. I did not have any issues except for my bank shutting my card down and not being able to talk to them to reactivate it. You aren't even allowed to whisper. Make SURE your bank knows you will be traveling and absolutely not to shut it off for any reason at all because it could be dangerous otherwise. Luckily I was with a friend, and she was able to spot for me. What a nightmare that was.
I would ask Abby what hotel she was at, it sounded a lot better than Hotel Prince in Myeongdong :)
Try everywhere for food. It's more about what you want to eat than where. I bet barbie has some great suggestions! I really like hot stone bimbimbap and korean bbq... those were my favorite meal experiences!
Paige- I am getting there, but it's more like a scream rather than a shriek. I think I still have a bit of range finding to do before I can shriek ;) Although i can make this squeaky noise that I never be able to make before. It's super high pitched (700hz-1000hz) and still pretty unexplored territory. Maybe that is the high range I've been looking for and I have to learn how to use it?
Jennifer- Yes, I was full time before I went to Korea. I did not have any issues except for my bank shutting my card down and not being able to talk to them to reactivate it. You aren't even allowed to whisper. Make SURE your bank knows you will be traveling and absolutely not to shut it off for any reason at all because it could be dangerous otherwise. Luckily I was with a friend, and she was able to spot for me. What a nightmare that was.
I would ask Abby what hotel she was at, it sounded a lot better than Hotel Prince in Myeongdong :)
Try everywhere for food. It's more about what you want to eat than where. I bet barbie has some great suggestions! I really like hot stone bimbimbap and korean bbq... those were my favorite meal experiences!
Paige- I am getting there, but it's more like a scream rather than a shriek. I think I still have a bit of range finding to do before I can shriek ;) Although i can make this squeaky noise that I never be able to make before. It's super high pitched (700hz-1000hz) and still pretty unexplored territory. Maybe that is the high range I've been looking for and I have to learn how to use it?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 07:43:38 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 07:43:38 AM
Quote from: jennifer@ on October 05, 2013, 08:05:23 AM
First off I would like to thank Jenny for starting this thread and for sharing her VFS experience. It has been really helpful.
A little history about transition. I started my transition in 2010. After losing my job I went back to school and earned two degrees and got a new job with a great company that is TG friendly (my insurance also covers GRS). Things have finally started to come together and time is flying by. I'll be going to Korea in Dec of this year for my VFS. When I return I will be living full time as Jennifer. I'm not sure when to change all my state and federal ID's, before I leave or after I return. So I have a few questions for the ladies that have been to Korea.
1. Did you go to Korea as female? If so, did run into issue when trying to enter or leave, problems using your credit cards?
2. What hotel would you recommend?
3. Places to eat?
4. Anything other things I should know that would help.
Hey Jennifer! I think I can help answer some questions:
1. I did, yes. My original plan was to go to Korea, have the surgery, and then come back and present full-time. Then I decided I would just be full-time while in Korea, and then ultimately I just went full-time before I left lol. I had my passport updated to show my new picture, so even though I had a male name I had no issues with identification leaving or entering. Credit cards I had no issue using, but like Jenny said you must call your bank and let them know you are travelling to Korea so they won't automatically freeze your card once it's used.
2. I stayed at Gangnam Artnouveau City II. It's a very nice hotel very conveniently located in Gangnam at a pretty great price. I have some more information about the hotel and its location in my posts on this page of Sarah's Yeson thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,148880.40.html. And here's a link to the hotel itself:http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294197-d1643621-Reviews-Gangnam_Artnouveau_City_II-Seoul.html
3. There are a million places to eat in Seoul! Just keep in mind that a lot of Korean cuisine is spicy and that you must avoid spicy food during the recovery. There are a ton of fast food restaurants and chain restaurants like Paris Baguette Cafe (sort of like Panera Bread) all around Seoul, and if you're more adventurous you can just wander any of the side streets and come across a ton of more authentic restaurants. The hotel I stayed in has a kitchen with fridge/freezer so you can also cook from there if you like.
4. It can be a little bit daunting getting around at first since everything is so different! But thankfully the subway is so easy to use and everything is written in English. Jessie is super helpful with everything so if you have any specific questions that we can't answer I'm sure she can help. Also Barbie is a seoul native who pops in this thread from time to time so maybe she can give you some advice too. And I know this thread is really long at this point but if you read through it you'll see a lot of helpful posts.
Good luck!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 10:02:52 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 10:02:52 AM
Oh and here's some more recordings for you guys :)
Here a message about how my voice is healing: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-10-7-13
And here is a simple recording of me counting to give you an idea of how my voice has progressed: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/counting-timeline
The first one was recorded about 3 weeks post-op and was 140hz. The second one was at about 4 weeks and was 150hz, and then the last one was at about 7 weeks and was 175hz. I unfortunately don't have one from before surgery, but according to my patient file from the voice therapy I did it was at 115hz. So so far I've seen about a 60hz increase :D
Here a message about how my voice is healing: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-10-7-13
And here is a simple recording of me counting to give you an idea of how my voice has progressed: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/counting-timeline
The first one was recorded about 3 weeks post-op and was 140hz. The second one was at about 4 weeks and was 150hz, and then the last one was at about 7 weeks and was 175hz. I unfortunately don't have one from before surgery, but according to my patient file from the voice therapy I did it was at 115hz. So so far I've seen about a 60hz increase :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on October 07, 2013, 10:45:26 AM
Post by: Carlita on October 07, 2013, 10:45:26 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 10:02:52 AM
Oh and here's some more recordings for you guys :)
Here a message about how my voice is healing: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-10-7-13
And here is a simple recording of me counting to give you an idea of how my voice has progressed: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/counting-timeline
The first one was recorded about 3 weeks post-op and was 140hz. The second one was at about 4 weeks and was 150hz, and then the last one was at about 7 weeks and was 175hz. I unfortunately don't have one from before surgery, but according to my patient file from the voice therapy I did it was at 115hz. So so far I've seen about a 60hz increase :D
Wow! What a dramatic improvement on the counting between 4 and 7 weeks! MUCH more feminine - anyone listening to that, without any knowledge of who they were listening to would automatically register it as a woman's voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 11:02:18 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 11:02:18 AM
Cool that this worked yout for you. In the counting I dont hear much diference between 1 and 2 but #3 is clearly better in pitch as well as in the sound - sounds well feminine. Healing is going well, I would say :) - Do you do anything consciously with the voice, like that "voice box raising" that people are always recommending to create a different resonance? You did have voice training before the surgery, so I guess you have learned to do something like that maybe?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 11:14:36 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 11:14:36 AM
Quote from: Carlita on October 07, 2013, 10:45:26 AM
Wow! What a dramatic improvement on the counting between 4 and 7 weeks! MUCH more feminine - anyone listening to that, without any knowledge of who they were listening to would automatically register it as a woman's voice.
Thanks!
Quote from: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 11:02:18 AM
Cool that this worked yout for you. In the counting I dont hear much diference between 1 and 2 but #3 is clearly better in pitch as well as in the sound - sounds well feminine. Healing is going well, I would say :) - Do you do anything consciously with the voice, like that "voice box raising" that people are always recommending to create a different resonance? You did have voice training before the surgery, so I guess you have learned to do something like that maybe?
Well, I didn't really learn that much from voice therapy, it just helped me raise my pitch. My pre-surgery feminine voice was pretty bad.
I am not doing anything consciously in that recording - it's just how it comes out. Now sub-consciously I may be just because my voice feels more feminine overall, but I can't answer that for sure! All I know is that recording you hear is absolutely effortless for me and requires no thought or anything - I love it!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 11:39:41 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 11:39:41 AM
So great, Abby. I am happy for you :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 12:12:12 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 12:12:12 PM
Sounding really good Abby :)
Seems like we have very similar results.. About 60hz increase in pitch. I have a feeling that we will both easily accrue the extra 15hz over time during the first year of recovery. I am almost to 5 months! Crazy how time starts to fly after that 2 month post op period :) Life is great!
Congrats Abby, its awesome to hear it really working out for you, too!
Seems like we have very similar results.. About 60hz increase in pitch. I have a feeling that we will both easily accrue the extra 15hz over time during the first year of recovery. I am almost to 5 months! Crazy how time starts to fly after that 2 month post op period :) Life is great!
Congrats Abby, its awesome to hear it really working out for you, too!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 02:24:19 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 02:24:19 PM
Whoa - I just read something that made me cringe. There are 2 clinics here in Germany that do this procedure and I read a report of a patient that was in one of them. She complained a bit about how coughing was sounding like dogs barking and how she could only whisper after the surgery. I mean right after the surgery! Dont they have the right procedures to NOT do any of that? I begin to wonder if that is part of why I find mostly bad comments on voice surgery in german language. Again shows me that in this country you always have to think for yourself when in hospitals. Also they seem to use botox to numb the vocal chords and it wears off only several weeks after the surgery... does that really last that long or are they overdoing it a bit. Well I suppose if you use botox, you are less likely to hurt your chords when trying to speak as you basically cannot do anything with them anyways, so they dont get strained...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 07, 2013, 03:29:59 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 07, 2013, 03:29:59 PM
Quote from: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 02:24:19 PM
Whoa - I just read something that made me cringe. There are 2 clinics here in Germany that do this procedure and I read a report of a patient that was in one of them. She complained a bit about how coughing was sounding like dogs barking and how she could only whisper after the surgery. I mean right after the surgery! Dont they have the right procedures to NOT do any of that? I begin to wonder if that is part of why I find mostly bad comments on voice surgery in german language. Again shows me that in this country you always have to think for yourself when in hospitals. Also they seem to use botox to numb the vocal chords and it wears off only several weeks after the surgery... does that really last that long or are they overdoing it a bit. Well I suppose if you use botox, you are less likely to hurt your chords when trying to speak as you basically cannot do anything with them anyways, so they dont get strained...
From what I remember, Jenny said that the botox seemed to last a few weeks, so that sounds plausible. Also, I would think that it may do *more* damage if you have the botox and try to speak too soon or too much since you'd have to push it more to get sound, to get past the relaxation, and that could mess up the suture or something.
It definitely sounds like the doctors in Russia do not take the same precautions and I could see that making a huge difference in the results.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 04:04:47 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 04:04:47 PM
The botox lasts 4-6 months, but the initial effects relax the vocal cords to the point that they cannot even really make noise. Yes whispering is baaad don't do it ;)
Yeah this is why I think the procedure somewhat varies.. Perhaps somewhere crucial to having predictable results?
If I were looking to have this surgery, I would still go to Yeson even if there was a local surgeon. They are the only ones that advertise it as a risk free procedure. Voice is just one of those things I would not be tossing the dice with anything but the best odds.
Yeah this is why I think the procedure somewhat varies.. Perhaps somewhere crucial to having predictable results?
If I were looking to have this surgery, I would still go to Yeson even if there was a local surgeon. They are the only ones that advertise it as a risk free procedure. Voice is just one of those things I would not be tossing the dice with anything but the best odds.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 07, 2013, 04:27:10 PM
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 07, 2013, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 04:04:47 PM
The botox lasts 4-6 months, but the initial effects relax the vocal cords to the point that they cannot even really make noise. Yes whispering is baaad don't do it ;)
Yeah this is why I think the procedure somewhat varies.. Perhaps somewhere crucial to having predictable results?
If I were looking to have this surgery, I would still go to Yeson even if there was a local surgeon. They are the only ones that advertise it as a risk free procedure. Voice is just one of those things I would not be tossing the dice with anything but the best odds.
That is a very smart decision, too. I'm probably going to end up going there myself in a few years, too. I'd love to just have a fully natural female range, it'll probably give me a higher highs too, being permanently raised.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 07, 2013, 05:03:18 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 07, 2013, 05:03:18 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 04:04:47 PM
The botox lasts 4-6 months, but the initial effects relax the vocal cords to the point that they cannot even really make noise. Yes whispering is baaad don't do it ;)
So do you notice any effects from the botox still? I had no idea it lasted that long.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 05:25:18 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 05:25:18 PM
Haha, its not Russia but Germany but anyways it sounded not good. It was a patient report though, so maybe she didnt give too much on the docs suggestions but I know that at times here they just forget. The surgeon thinks the nurse has done the instructions, the nurse thinks the doc will do it...
I once almost ended up getting a wrong surgery due to a mixup. Maybe I am just unlucky because German healthcare has a good reputation otherwise. I need to check the Berlin hospital though. I read some good patient reports on that one and he advertises with having the largest number of patients woldwide which have gotten a shortening of active vocal cord length. I wonder if that is still true or if that claim was made a while ago and Yesons are outperforming him by quite a bit by now. At least that clinic also does voice surgery on singers and other people, si I assume they should know their field, but I stll want some before and after recordings and patient reports.
Aw god, I talk as if I am already planning this, which I said I will not, its just so....tempting...
I need to find good local information :s, but it is scarce. I dont have $10000 to go to Yeson now, it will take me at least 3 years of massive saving to get that, while doing it locally would be free with some good referral letters.
I once almost ended up getting a wrong surgery due to a mixup. Maybe I am just unlucky because German healthcare has a good reputation otherwise. I need to check the Berlin hospital though. I read some good patient reports on that one and he advertises with having the largest number of patients woldwide which have gotten a shortening of active vocal cord length. I wonder if that is still true or if that claim was made a while ago and Yesons are outperforming him by quite a bit by now. At least that clinic also does voice surgery on singers and other people, si I assume they should know their field, but I stll want some before and after recordings and patient reports.
Aw god, I talk as if I am already planning this, which I said I will not, its just so....tempting...
I need to find good local information :s, but it is scarce. I dont have $10000 to go to Yeson now, it will take me at least 3 years of massive saving to get that, while doing it locally would be free with some good referral letters.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 07, 2013, 05:38:07 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 07, 2013, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: anjaq on October 07, 2013, 05:25:18 PM
Haha, its not Russia but Germany
Haha, oops. I think I had Russia in my head because of something else and I typed it out without thinking :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 08, 2013, 06:08:10 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 08, 2013, 06:08:10 PM
So because of the time difference I realized I am exactly 8 weeks post-op and can now do my vocal exercises, yay!!
Looks my lowest noise I can make now is 130hz, and the highest is about 450hz. I really, really regret not knowing what my range was prior to surgery, but I know 450hz was out of my range because I can hit notes that I used to not be able to.
Jenny, are you still seeing an increase in your upper end? What is it at now? I'm hoping I can get up at least a few more semitones.
Looks my lowest noise I can make now is 130hz, and the highest is about 450hz. I really, really regret not knowing what my range was prior to surgery, but I know 450hz was out of my range because I can hit notes that I used to not be able to.
Jenny, are you still seeing an increase in your upper end? What is it at now? I'm hoping I can get up at least a few more semitones.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 08, 2013, 06:44:00 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 08, 2013, 06:44:00 PM
What is your highest without "breaking" into falsetto? 'Cause I know I can squeak and make sort of higher pitched sounds but its in falsetto, meaning there is that "break" when I try to go from my normal range up and up. I think thats about the max that can be used for a speaking voice then.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 08, 2013, 06:53:25 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 08, 2013, 06:53:25 PM
Quote from: anjaq on October 08, 2013, 06:44:00 PM
What is your highest without "breaking" into falsetto? 'Cause I know I can squeak and make sort of higher pitched sounds but its in falsetto, meaning there is that "break" when I try to go from my normal range up and up. I think thats about the max that can be used for a speaking voice then.
At around 300hz I break into my falsetto it sounds like. I could be wrong. there is not nearly as clear of a break between my normal voice and falsetto as there used to be.
Also I lied, the highest pitch I can actually reach is about 483hz, so not quite a B4.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 08, 2013, 07:28:58 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 08, 2013, 07:28:58 PM
The most noticeable change in the way I support my voice happens at around F#4 (370hz) but this also varies depending on the vowel sound.
It's as if falsetto is not nearly as accessible anymore. In fact, I can't make a falsettoey sound at all. It just goes from chest to head with a seamless blend in between. A problem is that my head voice cuts off at 660hz (okay not really a problem, but it would be nice to go higher)
So I would say that max pitch is still somewhere around E5 660hz, but my squeak register is right there and I am starting to be able to control it. With the "squeak register", I find I can go as high as 850hz easy and sustain it and even bring it down and blend it into my head voice. It sounds like a piccolo flute, lol :D The problem is going up it is a lot harder to break into.
One of the things I'd love to be able to do is blend head voice with the very high register squeak thing. I get the feeling that the squeak stuff is just the extended upper range from having shortened vocal cords and my muscles just still aren't strong enough / shaped perfectly like a V yet to realize it. That is pure speculation, though!
It's as if falsetto is not nearly as accessible anymore. In fact, I can't make a falsettoey sound at all. It just goes from chest to head with a seamless blend in between. A problem is that my head voice cuts off at 660hz (okay not really a problem, but it would be nice to go higher)
So I would say that max pitch is still somewhere around E5 660hz, but my squeak register is right there and I am starting to be able to control it. With the "squeak register", I find I can go as high as 850hz easy and sustain it and even bring it down and blend it into my head voice. It sounds like a piccolo flute, lol :D The problem is going up it is a lot harder to break into.
One of the things I'd love to be able to do is blend head voice with the very high register squeak thing. I get the feeling that the squeak stuff is just the extended upper range from having shortened vocal cords and my muscles just still aren't strong enough / shaped perfectly like a V yet to realize it. That is pure speculation, though!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 08, 2013, 07:55:11 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 08, 2013, 07:55:11 PM
Yeah, that's what I mean by there's not really as clear break anymore, because my falsetto doesn't sound like falsetto used to. It is very natural sounding.
And gosh if I could get up to 660hz I would be absolutely ecstatic!! Hopefully my vocal exercises will push me up there. :)
And gosh if I could get up to 660hz I would be absolutely ecstatic!! Hopefully my vocal exercises will push me up there. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 08, 2013, 08:02:30 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 08, 2013, 08:02:30 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 08, 2013, 07:55:11 PM
Yeah, that's what I mean by there's not really as clear break anymore, because my falsetto doesn't sound like falsetto used to. It is very natural sounding.
And gosh if I could get up to 660hz I would be absolutely ecstatic!! Hopefully my vocal exercises will push me up there. :)
You'll get there, Abby :) When I started vocal exercises 2 months post op I had to strain to reach 470hz. A big key in getting more range was relaxing my entire jaw & throat. My speech therapist gave me some muscle stretching / relaxation exercises to do that really seemed to do the trick.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 09, 2013, 01:33:36 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 09, 2013, 01:33:36 AM
This sound again too great to hope for. I believe you, though, its just - I sooo hope this would be true for me if I would go for this. It sound so awesome... I wonder what voice surgery like that does to someone like me who tried speaking in a modded voice for long time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 09, 2013, 11:34:21 AM
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 09, 2013, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 08, 2013, 08:02:30 PMMy Hz seems to peak out at 180. Lol.
You'll get there, Abby :) When I started vocal exercises 2 months post op I had to strain to reach 470hz. A big key in getting more range was relaxing my entire jaw & throat. My speech therapist gave me some muscle stretching / relaxation exercises to do that really seemed to do the trick.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: vlmitchell on October 09, 2013, 12:46:08 PM
Post by: vlmitchell on October 09, 2013, 12:46:08 PM
You'll get there. You can't actually change the pitch-range of the voice through surgery. Given that the vocal cords stay the same size, thickness wise, all that you can do is decrease the resonance that the larynx produces and shorten the vocal tract... a little. The Yeson method is, like has been mentioned before, just basically a vocal capo.
FWIW: I can hit 460+hz with just exercise and training. The samples you've heard are the voice that I settled on because I didn't want to go so ridiculously high that the voice would sound weird for someone my size to have. I just warmed up my vocal tract and did that little sequence I do with an average pitch of ~260 (30 greater than female normal) and a F3 of 3191. My old voice was about 190hz with a F3 of ~2400hz so, don't worry too much about it.
FWIW: I can hit 460+hz with just exercise and training. The samples you've heard are the voice that I settled on because I didn't want to go so ridiculously high that the voice would sound weird for someone my size to have. I just warmed up my vocal tract and did that little sequence I do with an average pitch of ~260 (30 greater than female normal) and a F3 of 3191. My old voice was about 190hz with a F3 of ~2400hz so, don't worry too much about it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jennifer@ on October 10, 2013, 07:41:57 PM
Post by: jennifer@ on October 10, 2013, 07:41:57 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 07, 2013, 12:40:40 AM
Anja- Your question about the range changes with Yeson I cannot fully answer yet, my range is still changing. They say that you don't lose any range at all.. and I'm still getting mine back.. so no way to tell for sure in my case yet. Full recovery is after 12months.
Jennifer- Yes, I was full time before I went to Korea. I did not have any issues except for my bank shutting my card down and not being able to talk to them to reactivate it. You aren't even allowed to whisper. Make SURE your bank knows you will be traveling and absolutely not to shut it off for any reason at all because it could be dangerous otherwise. Luckily I was with a friend, and she was able to spot for me. What a nightmare that was.
I would ask Abby what hotel she was at, it sounded a lot better than Hotel Prince in Myeongdong :)
Try everywhere for food. It's more about what you want to eat than where. I bet barbie has some great suggestions! I really like hot stone bimbimbap and korean bbq... those were my favorite meal experiences!
Paige- I am getting there, but it's more like a scream rather than a shriek. I think I still have a bit of range finding to do before I can shriek ;) Although i can make this squeaky noise that I never be able to make before. It's super high pitched (700hz-1000hz) and still pretty unexplored territory. Maybe that is the high range I've been looking for and I have to learn how to use it?
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 07, 2013, 07:43:38 AM
Hey Jennifer! I think I can help answer some questions:
1. I did, yes. My original plan was to go to Korea, have the surgery, and then come back and present full-time. Then I decided I would just be full-time while in Korea, and then ultimately I just went full-time before I left lol. I had my passport updated to show my new picture, so even though I had a male name I had no issues with identification leaving or entering. Credit cards I had no issue using, but like Jenny said you must call your bank and let them know you are travelling to Korea so they won't automatically freeze your card once it's used.
2. I stayed at Gangnam Artnouveau City II. It's a very nice hotel very conveniently located in Gangnam at a pretty great price. I have some more information about the hotel and its location in my posts on this page of Sarah's Yeson thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,148880.40.html. And here's a link to the hotel itself:http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294197-d1643621-Reviews-Gangnam_Artnouveau_City_II-Seoul.html
3. There are a million places to eat in Seoul! Just keep in mind that a lot of Korean cuisine is spicy and that you must avoid spicy food during the recovery. There are a ton of fast food restaurants and chain restaurants like Paris Baguette Cafe (sort of like Panera Bread) all around Seoul, and if you're more adventurous you can just wander any of the side streets and come across a ton of more authentic restaurants. The hotel I stayed in has a kitchen with fridge/freezer so you can also cook from there if you like.
4. It can be a little bit daunting getting around at first since everything is so different! But thankfully the subway is so easy to use and everything is written in English. Jessie is super helpful with everything so if you have any specific questions that we can't answer I'm sure she can help. Also Barbie is a seoul native who pops in this thread from time to time so maybe she can give you some advice too. And I know this thread is really long at this point but if you read through it you'll see a lot of helpful posts.
Good luck!
Thanks Jenny and Abby for the great information. BTW you both sound great....
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 02:53:13 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 02:53:13 AM
Quote from: Victoria Mitchell on October 09, 2013, 12:46:08 PM
You'll get there. You can't actually change the pitch-range of the voice through surgery. Given that the vocal cords stay the same size, thickness wise, all that you can do is decrease the resonance that the larynx produces and shorten the vocal tract... a little. The Yeson method is, like has been mentioned before, just basically a vocal capo.
I just re read this and I don't think it's necessarily a limitation of Yeson's surgery. It's not actually just like a capo... Guitar strings are completely different from a vibrating vocal membrane. This surgery would be more relatable if it was a capo on a guitar with thick rubber band strings and 4" fret height that the capo would have to squash down into. More tension = thinner stretched membrane. Not just shortened length.
Another thing that Dr. Kim at Yeson told me to consider was that the voice post op will continue to sound more female due to the thinning effects on the vocal cords from estrogen. As you are on HRT for longer, the vocal cords do become less beefy. It's just that if there is no decrease in length to accompany, there is no change to the range other than weakness at lower frequencies... Maybe that partly explains why women who have long been on HRT and using a female voice can have pain when trying to go back to their previous lower voice?
Just judging from my own results so far with this surgery, I've had about a 4 semitone increase in upper head voice range and it feels like there will be more range to realize as I continue to recover.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on October 11, 2013, 03:13:14 AM
Post by: barbie on October 11, 2013, 03:13:14 AM
Quote from: jennifer@ on October 05, 2013, 08:05:23 AM
3. Places to eat?
Jennifer,
It would depend on what type of food you want to eat. I try to avoid meat, but here usually people eat together, not alone, in restaurant, and I sometimes have to eat pork and beef.
There are some food streets in Seoul, especially in Gangbuk (old town), where you can look food and sit in a chair to eat food. Keep in mind that red color means very spicy, but some foreigners do like spicy food. If you like sea food, there are various restaurant. Japanese tourists like sea food here, because the price is much cheaper than in Japan.
I heard one guy from the U.S. suffered here because he does not eat garlic. Virtually every dish here contains garlic, and his last resort was Kentucky Fried Chicken. If you are not adventurous, then you can look for McDonald, Pizza Hut and Domino pizza.
Also there are many internet sites on restaurants in Seoul: http://www.tripadvisor.co.kr/Restaurants-g294197-Seoul.html
I always carry more than 3 credit cards when traveling abroad, because some credit companies have too high security policy and can close my credit account temporarily. They even try to contact me through international call. Also, I leave at least one credit card in the hotel room for the case I lose my wallet. When I once stayed in San Francisco, I lost my wallet, but I could use one credit card kept in the hotel room to get some emergency cash from ATM.
I am going to fly to Vancouver, Canada, tomorrow. It will be far colder than here and I have to pack up winter clothes.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 11, 2013, 03:19:37 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 11, 2013, 03:19:37 AM
Interesting about the estrogen effect. I caanot say i noticed that significantly as my female voice actuallly does sound a bit worse than at the start. I cannot totally reproduce the old voice any longer, but i think that is due to psychological reasons and due to my different use of the voice box muscles. I. Did not try use it for more than 30 sec though, so maybe i would be in pain if that would be longer.
I do not quite get why the capo analogy is wrong. As i understood it, the surgery does not change tension or resonance but just the active length of the vocal chords?
That increase in head voice capability sounds awesome. Is it from voice training or really from surgery? Most people seem to write in the net that there is only a loss at the low range, but then again most are very negative about it overall.
What i wanted to ask-sorry if i ask to much - you did have a female voice pre opn yes? With higher pitch. If you speak now, does it feel more like you do the same thing as in the unaltered voice before, the female voice before, or something else? If you do what you did in the female voice pre op (muscle tension etc) will you be in a very high pitch range? I noticed that if i focus on getting resonance right, i am always also increasing pitch, so i wonder if my original pitch is 100 hz and if i appy resonance i am at 150, where would i end up after such a surgery with +70 hz? At 170 or at 220. I need to do the effort of resonance contol afterwards still, after all.
Thanks a bunch. I am so excited at how this worked for you after only hearing and reading bad stuff on voice surgeries.
I do not quite get why the capo analogy is wrong. As i understood it, the surgery does not change tension or resonance but just the active length of the vocal chords?
That increase in head voice capability sounds awesome. Is it from voice training or really from surgery? Most people seem to write in the net that there is only a loss at the low range, but then again most are very negative about it overall.
What i wanted to ask-sorry if i ask to much - you did have a female voice pre opn yes? With higher pitch. If you speak now, does it feel more like you do the same thing as in the unaltered voice before, the female voice before, or something else? If you do what you did in the female voice pre op (muscle tension etc) will you be in a very high pitch range? I noticed that if i focus on getting resonance right, i am always also increasing pitch, so i wonder if my original pitch is 100 hz and if i appy resonance i am at 150, where would i end up after such a surgery with +70 hz? At 170 or at 220. I need to do the effort of resonance contol afterwards still, after all.
Thanks a bunch. I am so excited at how this worked for you after only hearing and reading bad stuff on voice surgeries.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 03:40:44 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 03:40:44 AM
One of the reasons Yeson recommends against tracheal shaves (which I guess they offer a "safe" one now?) is that if too much is taken away it will reduce the support needed to increase tension on the vocal cords, possibly limiting results.
So in a nutshell, yes in addition to shortening the vocal cords they are also slightly tensioned and thinned.
Comparing my no effort voice pre to post op is where the money is. When asked to sing "ahh" "aay" "eee" "oooh" "ooo" at a comfortable pitch for Yeson during my pre-op exam, it was 140hz. Now if I just make a hum noise at the most comfortable pitch with no effort, I come in regularly at 205hz. Does the rest of my voice feel different, too? Absolutely!
As far as the upper range extension being due to vocal exercises alone? I doubt it. Pre op, I had a very regular voice training regimen going on in my car to and from work ;)
The loud voice is getting there... Worlds better than what it was 2 months ago.
So in a nutshell, yes in addition to shortening the vocal cords they are also slightly tensioned and thinned.
Comparing my no effort voice pre to post op is where the money is. When asked to sing "ahh" "aay" "eee" "oooh" "ooo" at a comfortable pitch for Yeson during my pre-op exam, it was 140hz. Now if I just make a hum noise at the most comfortable pitch with no effort, I come in regularly at 205hz. Does the rest of my voice feel different, too? Absolutely!
As far as the upper range extension being due to vocal exercises alone? I doubt it. Pre op, I had a very regular voice training regimen going on in my car to and from work ;)
The loud voice is getting there... Worlds better than what it was 2 months ago.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on October 11, 2013, 03:58:16 AM
Post by: barbie on October 11, 2013, 03:58:16 AM
I envy your girls who underwent VFS, but it is not an option for me. My daughter and sons love my low voice. They say my voice is softer than mom's, sedating them.
Instead, today I got hyaluronic filler to reduce wrinkles connecting my nosewings and lips before going to Canada. It costed about US$500, and the doctor recommended me to come again in 3 months to take another one. And, she added like "you may not need so many fillers, because you are a man." I replied like "Why not? I will do everything I can." I guess it will be addictive... and I may need more and more.
Anyway, right now is a best period to visit Seoul, as it is not too hot or cold.
barbie~~
Instead, today I got hyaluronic filler to reduce wrinkles connecting my nosewings and lips before going to Canada. It costed about US$500, and the doctor recommended me to come again in 3 months to take another one. And, she added like "you may not need so many fillers, because you are a man." I replied like "Why not? I will do everything I can." I guess it will be addictive... and I may need more and more.
Anyway, right now is a best period to visit Seoul, as it is not too hot or cold.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on October 11, 2013, 05:11:23 AM
Post by: Paige0000 on October 11, 2013, 05:11:23 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 03:40:44 AM
One of the reasons Yeson recommends against tracheal shaves (which I guess they offer a "safe" one now?) is that if too much is taken away it will reduce the support needed to increase tension on the vocal cords, possibly limiting results.
So in a nutshell, yes in addition to shortening the vocal cords they are also slightly tensioned and thinned.
Interesting. Do you think shaving only a little off would be okay? Mines not too bad but I would prefer the bump reduced abit. I can live with having a minor shave and a good vocal surgery result over no shave and a very good result. Would they allow this you think?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 11, 2013, 06:29:13 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 11, 2013, 06:29:13 AM
Ah ok, so the tension increases becauso of the sutures or do they deliberately add tension? I read abot vfs that focusses on tension alone - it is one of the examples for ineffectiveness in many as the tension seems to normalize later. So i guess if it does not it is good, otherwise its better to do the yeson method as it does not rely on it - it just gives some patients an additional benefit. Not all though, i imagine.
So, jenny what happens if you do the same things as you did befor when you did the female vouice? Are you up in th 260ies then? I guess for me it is a bit odd now as i have both voices - originally at 100 hz, but that no longer is my comfort zone as i have not used that relaxed(?) voice in years. I am comfortable now at 140 or 150, so i guess that may be a starting point then - Ooor i would have to get in the habit of going down again to relax my voice into the way that makes it 100 pre and maybe 170 post then. I guess it is hard for you to describe how your vocal tract works pre and post op resp with doing a female voice pre vs now?
Barbie, i am getting nice comments on my voice as well of that kind. As in i supposedly have a calm and pretty voice. Sadly it is androgynous as well. So i am a bit afraid if a vfs would change not only pitch but also the "prettyness" of the voice. But i guess it is a risk. A typical arielle problem again as it is with many trans things...
At least i dont need to worry about trach shaves.
So, jenny what happens if you do the same things as you did befor when you did the female vouice? Are you up in th 260ies then? I guess for me it is a bit odd now as i have both voices - originally at 100 hz, but that no longer is my comfort zone as i have not used that relaxed(?) voice in years. I am comfortable now at 140 or 150, so i guess that may be a starting point then - Ooor i would have to get in the habit of going down again to relax my voice into the way that makes it 100 pre and maybe 170 post then. I guess it is hard for you to describe how your vocal tract works pre and post op resp with doing a female voice pre vs now?
Barbie, i am getting nice comments on my voice as well of that kind. As in i supposedly have a calm and pretty voice. Sadly it is androgynous as well. So i am a bit afraid if a vfs would change not only pitch but also the "prettyness" of the voice. But i guess it is a risk. A typical arielle problem again as it is with many trans things...
At least i dont need to worry about trach shaves.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 11, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 11, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 03:40:44 AM
One of the reasons Yeson recommends against tracheal shaves (which I guess they offer a "safe" one now?) is that if too much is taken away it will reduce the support needed to increase tension on the vocal cords, possibly limiting results.
My frend sent an email and they told her the result wont be so good cos she had Trachea shave before. It's still prominent and she has to do it again, she tried to do with Yeson for the same day of VFS but they said the result wont be good. But my friend told me that she should have it BEFORE going to Korea or AFTER but I'm not so sure maybe she misunderstood what they told and it's not so clear till now. Reading the email myself, I understood it as... HAVING TRACHEA SHAVE BEFORE AND DOlNG THAT VFS SURGERY WlLL HAVE BAD RESULTS. We're still waiting for Korea's response again to clarify.
I have a very prominent adam's apple. I went already though Trachea shave once and I need to go a 2nd time again, so will that VFS not work for me anymore as I'm gonna go 2 times. Its UNBEARABLE to remain with adam's apple, YOU CAN BE CLOCKED MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE. Better remove it than have a SLIGHT masculine voice.
CAN SOMEONE CLARIFY THAT TRACHEA SHAVE AND VFS IN KOREA PLEASE?
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jfong on October 11, 2013, 07:54:01 AM
Post by: jfong on October 11, 2013, 07:54:01 AM
Quote from: barbie on October 11, 2013, 03:13:14 AM
I am going to fly to Vancouver, Canada, tomorrow. It will be far colder than here and I have to pack up winter clothes.
barbie~~
Actually only today and Sat that will be a bit cold and wet here in Vancouver. After that it should be pretty nice (and crisp). My roomate who just come back from Seoul said that it was still pretty hot there.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 11, 2013, 09:02:32 AM
Post by: sarahb on October 11, 2013, 09:02:32 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 03:40:44 AM
One of the reasons Yeson recommends against tracheal shaves (which I guess they offer a "safe" one now?) is that if too much is taken away it will reduce the support needed to increase tension on the vocal cords, possibly limiting results.
Jenny, didn't you have a trachea shave before the VFS? I thought I saw somewhere that you did. I'm curious since I'm reading a lot of comments here about how the results won't be as good if you had it done prior to surgery. I had mine done back in '08, about 5 years ago, with Dr. O. I'm hoping it doesn't affect my results too much.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 12:14:12 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 12:14:12 PM
This is what Jessie told me when I freaked out asking almost the exact same questions:
If you've had the trach shave and your voice was 100% unaffected, you'll be fine. However, if you've had a trach shave and lost vocal range, your results from the surgery will be limited.
Sarah- I went to Dr. O for tracheal shave 3 months prior to going to Korea. Everything turned out great :)
The only reason to worry is having a trach shave affect your voice. That is the signifier that going to Yeson is not a good idea. And I would totally NOT recommend doing tracheal shave after this surgery. Noooo way would I want to put my voice at risk! I would recommend doing it before and finding someone who you know will be super careful not to take too much cartilage away!
I had an extremely prominent adams apple so I completely understand the comment about passing and needing to have it done. I completely agree. I just can't stress enough, don't go to a doctor who will butcher you if you plan on having this surgery. My adams apple is still visible, but at the very least it's been rounded out and gender neutral enough that with the rest of my presentation it never gets me clocked. Dr. O did a fantastic job and was adamant about not taking too much cartilage away. I was sure to let him know how concerned I was about my voice.
If you've had the trach shave and your voice was 100% unaffected, you'll be fine. However, if you've had a trach shave and lost vocal range, your results from the surgery will be limited.
Sarah- I went to Dr. O for tracheal shave 3 months prior to going to Korea. Everything turned out great :)
The only reason to worry is having a trach shave affect your voice. That is the signifier that going to Yeson is not a good idea. And I would totally NOT recommend doing tracheal shave after this surgery. Noooo way would I want to put my voice at risk! I would recommend doing it before and finding someone who you know will be super careful not to take too much cartilage away!
I had an extremely prominent adams apple so I completely understand the comment about passing and needing to have it done. I completely agree. I just can't stress enough, don't go to a doctor who will butcher you if you plan on having this surgery. My adams apple is still visible, but at the very least it's been rounded out and gender neutral enough that with the rest of my presentation it never gets me clocked. Dr. O did a fantastic job and was adamant about not taking too much cartilage away. I was sure to let him know how concerned I was about my voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 11, 2013, 01:21:35 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 11, 2013, 01:21:35 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 12:14:12 PM
This is what Jessie told me when I freaked out asking almost the exact same questions:
If you've had the trach shave and your voice was 100% unaffected, you'll be fine. However, if you've had a trach shave and lost vocal range, your results from the surgery will be limited.
Sarah- I went to Dr. O for tracheal shave 3 months prior to going to Korea. Everything turned out great :)
The only reason to worry is having a trach shave affect your voice. That is the signifier that going to Yeson is not a good idea. And I would totally NOT recommend doing tracheal shave after this surgery. Noooo way would I want to put my voice at risk! I would recommend doing it before and finding someone who you know will be super careful not to take too much cartilage away!
I had an extremely prominent adams apple so I completely understand the comment about passing and needing to have it done. I completely agree. I just can't stress enough, don't go to a doctor who will butcher you if you plan on having this surgery. My adams apple is still visible, but at the very least it's been rounded out and gender neutral enough that with the rest of my presentation it never gets me clocked. Dr. O did a fantastic job and was adamant about not taking too much cartilage away. I was sure to let him know how concerned I was about my voice.
Ok, that makes me feel better! I don't think the trach shave affected my voice so I should be fine I guess.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 01:23:19 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 01:23:19 PM
Quote from: SarahR on October 11, 2013, 01:21:35 PM
Ok, that makes me feel better! I don't think the trach shave affected my voice so I should be fine I guess.
Yep, you have no reason to worry Sarah! It's gonna be great!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on October 11, 2013, 02:38:42 PM
Post by: Paige0000 on October 11, 2013, 02:38:42 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 12:14:12 PM
This is what Jessie told me when I freaked out asking almost the exact same questions:
If you've had the trach shave and your voice was 100% unaffected, you'll be fine. However, if you've had a trach shave and lost vocal range, your results from the surgery will be limited.
Sarah- I went to Dr. O for tracheal shave 3 months prior to going to Korea. Everything turned out great :)
The only reason to worry is having a trach shave affect your voice. That is the signifier that going to Yeson is not a good idea. And I would totally NOT recommend doing tracheal shave after this surgery. Noooo way would I want to put my voice at risk! I would recommend doing it before and finding someone who you know will be super careful not to take too much cartilage away!
I had an extremely prominent adams apple so I completely understand the comment about passing and needing to have it done. I completely agree. I just can't stress enough, don't go to a doctor who will butcher you if you plan on having this surgery. My adams apple is still visible, but at the very least it's been rounded out and gender neutral enough that with the rest of my presentation it never gets me clocked. Dr. O did a fantastic job and was adamant about not taking too much cartilage away. I was sure to let him know how concerned I was about my voice.
They suggested for me that if I really desire a shave that they do it themselves to limit the risk. Do you think I should or instead get the shave done with a top quality surgeon before getting my vocal surgery? I'm at an impasse on what to do right now :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ilubfood on October 11, 2013, 02:53:23 PM
Post by: ilubfood on October 11, 2013, 02:53:23 PM
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Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 11, 2013, 03:05:00 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 11, 2013, 03:05:00 PM
Welcome ilubfood. Good to have you here :) . I hope you will keep us updated with your progress and results and if you like, we certainly would love to hear clips of the progress and maybe a before and after, if you like to share. No pressure though, if you dont like to have your voice in public thats totally understandable :)
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 09:53:41 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 09:53:41 PM
Quote from: Paige0000 on October 11, 2013, 02:38:42 PM
They suggested for me that if I really desire a shave that they do it themselves to limit the risk. Do you think I should or instead get the shave done with a top quality surgeon before getting my vocal surgery? I'm at an impasse on what to do right now :(
I would ask more.. Aka location of scar, etc. I would also ask who would do it (Dr Kim or a different doctor) and how many times they've performed thyroid cartilage reduction and to see a few before and after pictures. It's a cosmetic procedure which I was not aware that they did. It is after all a voice clinic. But, the area that they are in (Gangnam) probably has one of (if not the) highest concentration of plastic surgeons. It totally felt like the Beverly Hills of Korea in that regard. Excited to hear what barbie will have to say about it :)
Quote from: ilubfood on October 11, 2013, 02:53:23 PM
Hi Everyone,
My name is Ava and i had just recently had the VFS with Yeson as well! I have just got back to California for 2 days now from Seoul and i can't wait to hear the results! Thank you for Jenny and Abby for documenting your recovery on here. I find it very helpful as i am going through it at the moment!
Thanks for sharing and can't wait to hear your results! Welcome!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lauren5 on October 11, 2013, 10:06:59 PM
Post by: Lauren5 on October 11, 2013, 10:06:59 PM
Sorry if it's a rude question, but about how much does the procedure cost?
Just trying to get an overall estimate of the cost of the whole transition process. I'm not sure if I'd need this, as I have a large vocal range, but settle towards the bottom of it, but just in case, to have the number.
Just trying to get an overall estimate of the cost of the whole transition process. I'm not sure if I'd need this, as I have a large vocal range, but settle towards the bottom of it, but just in case, to have the number.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 10:36:55 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 10:36:55 PM
It's about 10K usd for the trip.
7350 for the surgery itself, 400 extra if you have a vocal tremor and need botox
7350 for the surgery itself, 400 extra if you have a vocal tremor and need botox
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lauren5 on October 11, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
Post by: Lauren5 on October 11, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 10:36:55 PMIt's about 10K usd for the trip.How long did you stay? Cause 10K sounds a little high. But being an airline guru, I know how to take shortcuts to cut it down a bit.
7350 for the surgery itself, 400 extra if you have a vocal tremor and need botox
So something else to add as a possibility.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on October 12, 2013, 02:21:47 AM
Post by: Paige0000 on October 12, 2013, 02:21:47 AM
Other question how do you find your crying sounds have changed? I hate it when I really tear up my vocal sobs sound quite masculine, which really annoys me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 12, 2013, 02:24:20 AM
Post by: Evolving Beauty on October 12, 2013, 02:24:20 AM
Can someone please explain what's the botox all about related to this surgery? Still don't get it.
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 12, 2013, 05:55:09 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 12, 2013, 05:55:09 AM
Quote from: Willow on October 11, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
How long did you stay? Cause 10K sounds a little high. But being an airline guru, I know how to take shortcuts to cut it down a bit.
So something else to add as a possibility.
Yeson asks that you stay 9-10 days
this is about how my trip ended up~
Day 0.5 arrive (Monday Seoul time)
Day 1 pre op exam & consult
Day 2 surgery
Day 3 recovery
Day 4/5+ visiting & exploring
Day 9 post op exam & consult
Day 10 depart
You might be able to shave a day or two, but I wouldn't recommend risking it. The first week of recovery is the most important of all!
Quote from: Paige0000 on October 12, 2013, 02:21:47 AM
Other question how do you find your crying sounds have changed? I hate it when I really tear up my vocal sobs sound quite masculine, which really annoys me.
I think the hardest thing to control during that moment is resonance. Everything seems to want to open up (larynx down from lump in the throat) and for me it's pretty hard to control it in moments like those. Luckily the pitch is quite a bit higher and overall has less low end which helps.
Quote from: Evolving Beauty on October 12, 2013, 02:24:20 AM
Can someone please explain what's the botox all about related to this surgery? Still don't get it.
Some people (myself included) have had preexisting issues with vocal cords without even knowing it. They expose these things during the pre op exam. If it is actually causing a vocal problem like a vocal tremor (which makes the voice behave erratically or stop when holding a tone), they can provide a botox injection serving to inhibit the vocal muscles from twitching or spasming (what physically causes a vocal tremor). I hope that makes sense.
I'm not a doctor so if someone has a medically appropriate explanation of laryngeal botox injection please do chime in!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ilubfood on October 12, 2013, 06:02:57 AM
Post by: ilubfood on October 12, 2013, 06:02:57 AM
Thank you :D ill be sure to keep you all updated as i do have many questions of recovery
Jenny: hi jenny, congrats on your progress. I was wondering if you could answer a few questions beause jessie takes a while to get back to me and i think its nice to have someone who actually went through with the procedure. Its been a week and a half since surgery for me now. 2 days after i got back to california, i had a couple of sneezes and was not able to control it. I also had botox injection and dr kim sutured 1/3 of my vocal chord as well. I was wondering if the sneezes had damaged the surgical area as i do have a bit of discomfort or is it just from the botox? Also i tried to say one word and it came out very hoarse still. When should i be able to actually produce a normal decent word?
Thank you for your time
Jenny: hi jenny, congrats on your progress. I was wondering if you could answer a few questions beause jessie takes a while to get back to me and i think its nice to have someone who actually went through with the procedure. Its been a week and a half since surgery for me now. 2 days after i got back to california, i had a couple of sneezes and was not able to control it. I also had botox injection and dr kim sutured 1/3 of my vocal chord as well. I was wondering if the sneezes had damaged the surgical area as i do have a bit of discomfort or is it just from the botox? Also i tried to say one word and it came out very hoarse still. When should i be able to actually produce a normal decent word?
Thank you for your time
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 12, 2013, 09:33:50 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 12, 2013, 09:33:50 AM
Quote from: Willow on October 11, 2013, 10:48:39 PM
How long did you stay? Cause 10K sounds a little high. But being an airline guru, I know how to take shortcuts to cut it down a bit.
So something else to add as a possibility.
Hey Willow,
My total cost for my trip was $12,238.31 (I'm studying accounting lol, the costs concerning my transition have been recorded meticulously)
Airfare from DC-Seoul was $1,678. I booked mine only three weeks in advance so it's likely if you book it far in advance and/or are flying out from the west coast that it would be several hundred dollars cheaper.
The hotel was $1,596 for 11 days. There are certainly cheaper options but I wanted to a suite with a kitchen since I did a lot of cooking from my hotel room.
The surgery itself, including foreign transaction fees that my credit card company charged, was $7,734. This was NOT including Botox. Actually, Jenny I meant to ask, did you get charged exactly $7,380 for the surgery? I completely forgot to follow up on this because it's like $400 more than I thought would be charged. Maybe it was due to an unfavorable exchange rate. I need to talk to Jessie.
And then I spent about $1,200 on food/entertainment/shopping during my stay.
I would say at the minimum, if you got a flight for $1,000, a hotel for $1,000, and spent $500 during your stay you would be looking at a hair under $10k.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 12, 2013, 09:35:16 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 12, 2013, 09:35:16 AM
Quote from: Paige0000 on October 12, 2013, 02:21:47 AM
Other question how do you find your crying sounds have changed? I hate it when I really tear up my vocal sobs sound quite masculine, which really annoys me.
I would answer this but I haven't cried since my surgery lol. At least, not the kind where I would make any noise.
I can tell you that simple things like clearing my throat are now feminized. Laughing is difficult to control and my voice is still a bit weak in that area so I'm not really sure exactly how it sounds, gender wise. It's certainly higher pitched than it was but I don't think it will sound too feminine until my voice heals some more.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lauren5 on October 12, 2013, 10:03:55 AM
Post by: Lauren5 on October 12, 2013, 10:03:55 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 12, 2013, 09:33:50 AMHey Willow,Something I've noticed, is that flying out of Lansing, which is also far closer to me, is always $100 cheaper than flying from Detroit, even though you take a plane where I hit me head on the roof all the time for 15-20 minutes to get to Detroit from Lansing!
My total cost for my trip was $12,238.31 (I'm studying accounting lol, the costs concerning my transition have been recorded meticulously)
Airfare from DC-Seoul was $1,678. I booked mine only three weeks in advance so it's likely if you book it far in advance and/or are flying out from the west coast that it would be several hundred dollars cheaper.
The hotel was $1,596 for 11 days. There are certainly cheaper options but I wanted to a suite with a kitchen since I did a lot of cooking from my hotel room.
The surgery itself, including foreign transaction fees that my credit card company charged, was $7,734. This was NOT including Botox. Actually, Jenny I meant to ask, did you get charged exactly $7,380 for the surgery? I completely forgot to follow up on this because it's like $400 more than I thought would be charged. Maybe it was due to an unfavorable exchange rate. I need to talk to Jessie.
And then I spent about $1,200 on food/entertainment/shopping during my stay.
I would say at the minimum, if you got a flight for $1,000, a hotel for $1,000, and spent $500 during your stay you would be looking at a hair under $10k.
Now, seeing all the figures laid out, 10K makes much more sense. Plus it means I can take Seoul off my round the world trip plan :p
It also all depends on how comfortable with myself I would be when I had this. If I was well into my transition, I'd be likely to overspend in clothes and maybe go to a club or two. I'd I stool felt uncomfortable, I don't think I'd get out of my room too much.
Come to think of it, 1.5k is excellent for a hotel in the Gangam district. You did say you stayed in the Gangam district, or wad that something else?
Another question for you singers out there; how has this affected your singing voice?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 12, 2013, 11:24:56 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 12, 2013, 11:24:56 AM
Speaking of kathyp, how you doing girl? I don't think we've heard from you since you had your surgery which must have been a month ago.
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on October 13, 2013, 08:24:34 AM
Post by: barbie on October 13, 2013, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 09:53:41 PM
But, the area that they are in (Gangnam) probably has one of (if not the) highest concentration of plastic surgeons. It totally felt like the Beverly Hills of Korea in that regard. Excited to hear what barbie will have to say about it :)
Jenny,
Yes. It is, but plastic surgeries there are usually famous among East Asian girls. Due to the influence of K-pop, may young Asian women come to Gangnam, asking plastic surgeons to make their face look like K-pop idols. Their surgery skill is among the highest in the world, I am sure. I think the costs vary, but are similar to the U.S., and I heard that some westerners also visit there for cosmetic surgery. In my hometown, the skills of surgeons are not so much credible, and people recommend to go to Gangnam or Busan.
The reputations of surgeons there are critical in their business success, and the most influential group of patients is actually M2F transsexual, according to my friend, who is a doctor. Because M2F transsexual people are so much picky on the results of the surgery, word-of-mouth reputation among them is a most critical benchmark of the business success of Gangnam surgeons.
And, the problem is that many girls in Seoul look too much similar. There are several types of face I can recognize. I do not have exact statistics, but I guess a lot of young girls, probably more than 20%, undergo cosmetic surgery, especially in Seoul.
I just arrived in Nanaimo, BC. It feels like late fall, and I changed my summer clothes in Vancouver airport. I will purchase some fall clothes in a nearby shopping center. Young people here seem to like watching ice-hockey games.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 13, 2013, 08:58:34 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 13, 2013, 08:58:34 AM
Thats interesting about the influence of MtFs on the reputation of surgeons there. I assume that there are several there doing FFS as well? I mostly hear non Korean names in that respect.
Jenny - I have another question to you. I hope you dont mind. Now recently people have told me and my experiments with praats f3 function also hint to that, that maybe a main issue for me is resonance. You did resonance training before the vfs, right? And you apply it now, so you still have to do some conscious voice changing always, is that so? What happens if you forget for a moment, e.g when tired or so. Does your voice still sound good enough or is it sounding a bit odd then? I heard some people claim that if one does not apply resonance control after vfs, one is supposedly sounding fake or falsetto, or even male. What are your experiences on how the voice sounds if you "slip" on resonance control? As you may be uncomfly with that I will say that as much as I'd like a soundbit from you about that, it is maybe too much to ask ;)
Jenny - I have another question to you. I hope you dont mind. Now recently people have told me and my experiments with praats f3 function also hint to that, that maybe a main issue for me is resonance. You did resonance training before the vfs, right? And you apply it now, so you still have to do some conscious voice changing always, is that so? What happens if you forget for a moment, e.g when tired or so. Does your voice still sound good enough or is it sounding a bit odd then? I heard some people claim that if one does not apply resonance control after vfs, one is supposedly sounding fake or falsetto, or even male. What are your experiences on how the voice sounds if you "slip" on resonance control? As you may be uncomfly with that I will say that as much as I'd like a soundbit from you about that, it is maybe too much to ask ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on October 13, 2013, 09:07:50 AM
Post by: barbie on October 13, 2013, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: anjaq on October 13, 2013, 08:58:34 AM
Thats interesting about the influence of MtFs on the reputation of surgeons there. I assume that there are several there doing FFS as well? I mostly hear non Korean names in that respect.
anjaq,
I am unfamiliar with FFS, but there are several sites after googling: http://www.whatclinic.com/cosmetic-plastic-surgery/south-korea/seoul/ffs-facial-feminization-surgery
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on October 15, 2013, 07:59:17 AM
Post by: Carlita on October 15, 2013, 07:59:17 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 11, 2013, 10:36:55 PM
It's about 10K usd for the trip.
7350 for the surgery itself, 400 extra if you have a vocal tremor and need botox
$7,350 sounds like quite a lot of money for a procedure which sells itself on being so minimal. Did you ever ask about that? And, of so, what reason did the Yeson Clinic give for the cost?
... Other than, 'All you bitches want it, so we can charge what we want!' ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 15, 2013, 08:19:59 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 15, 2013, 08:19:59 AM
Quote from: Carlita on October 15, 2013, 07:59:17 AM
$7,350 sounds like quite a lot of money for a procedure which sells itself on being so minimal. Did you ever ask about that? And, of so, what reason did the Yeson Clinic give for the cost?
... Other than, 'All you bitches want it, so we can charge what we want!' ;)
Well you have salaries for the 4 people that are actually in the operating room performing your surgery. The surgeon, anesthesiologist, and two nurses. Then you have the overhead related to the facility (Yeson runs out of their own surgical center rather than doing it at a hospital or somewhere else), the cost of the tests they run and the medications they provide, as well as whatever their profit margin is. Keep in mind that Yeson is a very well respected voice center in the most affluent area of Seoul, which overall is an expensive city to live in.
It's still cheaper than U.S.-based voice surgeries when you look at the cost of the operation alone. I think Dr. Thomas charges almost $10k.
But part of it is that yes they can charge that much because they know people will pay it. Voice fem. surgery is not their main focus at Yeson, I think Jesse said Dr. Kim does 1-2 a week. They could probably still make a profit by charging say $5k for the surgery but they wouldn't have the ability to meet the demand at that price.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on October 15, 2013, 12:28:38 PM
Post by: Carlita on October 15, 2013, 12:28:38 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 15, 2013, 08:19:59 AM
Well you have salaries for the 4 people that are actually in the operating room performing your surgery. The surgeon, anesthesiologist, and two nurses. Then you have the overhead related to the facility (Yeson runs out of their own surgical center rather than doing it at a hospital or somewhere else), the cost of the tests they run and the medications they provide, as well as whatever their profit margin is. Keep in mind that Yeson is a very well respected voice center in the most affluent area of Seoul, which overall is an expensive city to live in.
It's still cheaper than U.S.-based voice surgeries when you look at the cost of the operation alone. I think Dr. Thomas charges almost $10k.
But part of it is that yes they can charge that much because they know people will pay it. Voice fem. surgery is not their main focus at Yeson, I think Jesse said Dr. Kim does 1-2 a week. They could probably still make a profit by charging say $5k for the surgery but they wouldn't have the ability to meet the demand at that price.
And, let's face it, girls will pay ANYTHING to get voices as pretty as the ones Yeson provides!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 15, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 15, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
Quote from: Carlita on October 15, 2013, 12:28:38 PM
And, let's face it, girls will pay ANYTHING to get voices as pretty as the ones Yeson provides!
Hmm, I wonder how much we'd actually pay before it's just ridiculous and we boycott it. It's a hard question since the voice is so important, to me at least, that the possibility of having a voice that is so natural and feminine sounding as the ones Yeson is outputting makes any price seem worth it for a lifetime of happiness. Although, I think if it were $50k+ then it would become easier and easier to say fuggit and just practice reeeaaaaly hard on my voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 15, 2013, 03:09:01 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 15, 2013, 03:09:01 PM
I was just thinking about all the awesome things I've heard from the ones who've done the voice surgery, but a thought popped into my head.
Is there anything you don't like about the surgery or the results? This could be not enough change, too much change, decreased vocal range, you snore more now, lol. Can you say anything bad about the surgery?
It's not going to sway me or anything, I don't think anything can at this point unless I get definitive proof that Jenny and Abby are just actresses to market for Yeson :) I just like to go in knowing some of the things I may be able to expect and can prepare for them if need be.
Is there anything you don't like about the surgery or the results? This could be not enough change, too much change, decreased vocal range, you snore more now, lol. Can you say anything bad about the surgery?
It's not going to sway me or anything, I don't think anything can at this point unless I get definitive proof that Jenny and Abby are just actresses to market for Yeson :) I just like to go in knowing some of the things I may be able to expect and can prepare for them if need be.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 15, 2013, 03:22:16 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 15, 2013, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: SarahR on October 15, 2013, 03:09:01 PM
I was just thinking about all the awesome things I've heard from the ones who've done the voice surgery, but a thought popped into my head.
Is there anything you don't like about the surgery or the results? This could be not enough change, too much change, decreased vocal range, you snore more now, lol. Can you say anything bad about the surgery?
It's not going to sway me or anything, I don't think anything can at this point unless I get definitive proof that Jenny and Abby are just actresses to market for Yeson :) I just like to go in knowing some of the things I may be able to expect and can prepare for them if need be.
You caught us!!!
In all seriousness Jenny is probably in a better position to answer this since she is further along but neither of us are fully healed yet.
Let's play hypothetical and pretend that my voice right now is fully healed.
If that were the case the only real downside would be a limited vocal range since my highs aren't as high as I would like them.
I am happy with how much my pitch has changed. Even if it doesn't go up any more from here, I've already seen the average pitch increase and it's feminine enough that I don't worry about passing anymore. I don't think I will see that much more of an increase since I've already seen so much - if I see 10hz more I will be thrilled.
IF my pitch stays where it is now, I would still be happy with the surgery but in hindsight I would probably have asked Dr. Kim to do just a slight bit more to get me to around 215hz and comfortably in the female range. But who knows, maybe I will get to that point by the time it's fully healed. :)
Edit: Although be prepared to not see a big change for a while. Jesse warned me that some patients are not happy initially because they don't notice much if any change for sometimes several months. In the end though she said that everyone sees an increase by the time its fully healed.
If you look through my posts you can see how I was a little bit impatient that after only 3 weeks post op my voice was only at 150-160hz. Even though I knew that it would take time for the pitch to rise I was frustrated because I expected too much after such a short time going into it. So be patient, and don't be disappointed if it takes a while to really see a difference.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 15, 2013, 03:33:35 PM
Post by: Lexi Belle on October 15, 2013, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: SarahR on October 15, 2013, 03:09:01 PM
I was just thinking about all the awesome things I've heard from the ones who've done the voice surgery, but a thought popped into my head.
Is there anything you don't like about the surgery or the results? This could be not enough change, too much change, decreased vocal range, you snore more now, lol. Can you say anything bad about the surgery?
It's not going to sway me or anything, I don't think anything can at this point unless I get definitive proof that Jenny and Abby are just actresses to market for Yeson :) I just like to go in knowing some of the things I may be able to expect and can prepare for them if need be.
Pretty faces, pretty voices. I believe it, they're actresses. The deceit! They've been advertising all along! Darn media.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 15, 2013, 05:49:05 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 15, 2013, 05:49:05 PM
I have wondered SO many times if I come across like some sort of marketing scheme, lol.
I do agree w/ abby about the limited vocal range, I find that most if not all females can still make much higher noises easily with their voices (probably in the 500hz-900hz range). Hopefully that is yet to come for us (but happy otherwise regardless).
Other than that there is literally nothing that I would wish were different. Still improving here, too, and I can't wait to hear the results after a year of re-strengthening :)
I do agree w/ abby about the limited vocal range, I find that most if not all females can still make much higher noises easily with their voices (probably in the 500hz-900hz range). Hopefully that is yet to come for us (but happy otherwise regardless).
Other than that there is literally nothing that I would wish were different. Still improving here, too, and I can't wait to hear the results after a year of re-strengthening :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 15, 2013, 09:58:43 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 15, 2013, 09:58:43 PM
Lol, yeah, I saw that on your Youtube channels where some of the commenters accused you of being a cis-woman that Yeson paid off to do a plug for them. :p
Consider it a pretty damned good compliment!
Consider it a pretty damned good compliment!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 15, 2013, 10:01:17 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 15, 2013, 10:01:17 PM
Hey guys, I'm a huge Excel nerd so I created a spreadsheet to track my progress now that I've started my vocal exercises.
You can download it here if you're interested in using it: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96561242/Yeson%20Vocal%20Exercise%20Worksheet.xlsx
Along the bottom you will see 17 different tabs. The first one is the "Dashboard" tab that pulls the averages for each exercise from each week's worksheet. It also calculates changes between weeks so you can see how much progress you're making on a weekly basis.
The next 16 tabs are the worksheets for each week. Since you start the exercises at about 2 months post-op, 16 weeks of exercises would bring you to roughly 6 months. For each exercise, you fill in your results as you do your exercises. At the bottom of each worksheet, there are averages that update as the week goes along. It calculates separate averages for your morning and evening exercises as they will probably vary a bit, as well as an overall average. This overall average is what gets transferred to the "Dashboard" tab.
The exercises on the weekly worksheets are the same ones that Yeson provides you after your surgery. The only difference is I added 4 more readings at the end. There is one for the rainbow passage (I only do a shortened version), one for a natural speaking voice (I just have a little 15 second message that I record - it doesn't matter what you choose as long as you say the same thing every time), one for counting from 1-10, and one for group 1 of the Harvard Sentences. I added these so I can get an idea of what my average speaking pitch is under different circumstances.
Everything is updated automatically - all the calculations and all the links between the weekly worksheets and the dashboard. So all you have to do is fill in your results each time you do your exercises and everything updates.
I'm not sure if this will be helpful to anyone else but I personally like to be able to visually see my progress. I've only finished my first week of exercises but going forward I'll give you guys updates so you can see how much my pitch improves each week.
You can download it here if you're interested in using it: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96561242/Yeson%20Vocal%20Exercise%20Worksheet.xlsx
Along the bottom you will see 17 different tabs. The first one is the "Dashboard" tab that pulls the averages for each exercise from each week's worksheet. It also calculates changes between weeks so you can see how much progress you're making on a weekly basis.
The next 16 tabs are the worksheets for each week. Since you start the exercises at about 2 months post-op, 16 weeks of exercises would bring you to roughly 6 months. For each exercise, you fill in your results as you do your exercises. At the bottom of each worksheet, there are averages that update as the week goes along. It calculates separate averages for your morning and evening exercises as they will probably vary a bit, as well as an overall average. This overall average is what gets transferred to the "Dashboard" tab.
The exercises on the weekly worksheets are the same ones that Yeson provides you after your surgery. The only difference is I added 4 more readings at the end. There is one for the rainbow passage (I only do a shortened version), one for a natural speaking voice (I just have a little 15 second message that I record - it doesn't matter what you choose as long as you say the same thing every time), one for counting from 1-10, and one for group 1 of the Harvard Sentences. I added these so I can get an idea of what my average speaking pitch is under different circumstances.
Everything is updated automatically - all the calculations and all the links between the weekly worksheets and the dashboard. So all you have to do is fill in your results each time you do your exercises and everything updates.
I'm not sure if this will be helpful to anyone else but I personally like to be able to visually see my progress. I've only finished my first week of exercises but going forward I'll give you guys updates so you can see how much my pitch improves each week.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 16, 2013, 12:16:24 AM
Post by: sarahb on October 16, 2013, 12:16:24 AM
That's great Abby, thanks! I'll check it out once I'm at my computer. I'll definitely be using it myself.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on October 16, 2013, 08:15:24 AM
Post by: Shantel on October 16, 2013, 08:15:24 AM
We sure have a lot of really smart gals here!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
Alright so the first week of vocal exercise is complete! I am exactly 9 weeks post-op (holy cow time is flying by) and this is where my voice currently sits:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fp2vANhO.png&hash=21e6314cddd74fb6aba2450f204b2d6560ba8908)
Jenny - at this point in your recovery do you remember about where you were at pitch wise? I'm just wondering if it's realistic for me to expect another 10-15hz increase or so.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fp2vANhO.png&hash=21e6314cddd74fb6aba2450f204b2d6560ba8908)
Jenny - at this point in your recovery do you remember about where you were at pitch wise? I'm just wondering if it's realistic for me to expect another 10-15hz increase or so.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 16, 2013, 05:48:42 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 16, 2013, 05:48:42 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
Alright so the first week of vocal exercise is complete! I am exactly 9 weeks post-op (holy cow time is flying by) and this is where my voice currently sits:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fp2vANhO.png&hash=21e6314cddd74fb6aba2450f204b2d6560ba8908)
Jenny - at this point in your recovery do you remember about where you were at pitch wise? I'm just wondering if it's realistic for me to expect another 10-15hz increase or so.
Those numbers look good! I recall you saying you were something like 15Hz lower than Jenny before the surgery, right? That would put you around 125Hz I think? So it looks like you have attained about a 65Hz increase from before (based on your natural speaking voice).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 06:08:31 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 06:08:31 PM
Quote from: SarahR on October 16, 2013, 05:48:42 PM
Those numbers look good! I recall you saying you were something like 15Hz lower than Jenny before the surgery, right? That would put you around 125Hz I think? So it looks like you have attained about a 65Hz increase from before (based on your natural speaking voice).
Yeah after we did all of the tests at Yeson the print out said my average pitch was 125hz.
But when I downloaded my before reading of the rainbow passage it was only 115hz. And looking through my records from voice therapy it had my normal speaking voice at 114hz. So yeah anywhere from 65-75hz increase so far.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 06:21:33 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 06:21:33 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 05:41:13 PM
Alright so the first week of vocal exercise is complete! I am exactly 9 weeks post-op (holy cow time is flying by) and this is where my voice currently sits:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fp2vANhO.png&hash=21e6314cddd74fb6aba2450f204b2d6560ba8908)
Jenny - at this point in your recovery do you remember about where you were at pitch wise? I'm just wondering if it's realistic for me to expect another 10-15hz increase or so.
Well it's good that you ask today and not a few days ago, because just a few days ago I was starting to feel as if my sickness had somehow affected my voice. Luckily today I'm finally feeling free of the cough & phlegm, so decided to do another rainbow recording :)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1DSxGW0s2Qo
This recording has an F0 of 236hz! I was kind of shocked when I saw it, because I really wasn't putting any extra lift into my voice. Then I did a recording of just regular relaxed talking and with 3 tries the average was 219hz.
I don't know exactly why my F0 has seemingly increased so much (I was at 213hz rainbow immediately post op and 205hz normal speaking), but I have a feeling it is because I have been paying more attention towards upward pitch dynamics... or being more expressive with pitch is a good way to describe what I've been working on. It still takes a little bit of remembering to think about it, but it is becoming part of the way I talk normally. I think that is most likely what made my F0 jump up so much, because I am not talking in such a monotone manner and rather trying to float the pitch around.
Let me know what you think of the recording... I might submit it to Yeson since I am at exactly 5 months today! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 06:32:31 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 06:32:31 PM
Ahh that's awesome! Just getting better and better :)
And they say 6-12 months until it's fully healed so I guess we shouldn't be that surprised that you're still noticing an increase at 5 months.
That makes me very hopeful - I would love love love for my natural speaking voice to just be a bit higher - 200-205hz or so.
And they say 6-12 months until it's fully healed so I guess we shouldn't be that surprised that you're still noticing an increase at 5 months.
That makes me very hopeful - I would love love love for my natural speaking voice to just be a bit higher - 200-205hz or so.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 06:41:24 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 06:32:31 PM
Ahh that's awesome! Just getting better and better :)
And they say 6-12 months until it's fully healed so I guess we shouldn't be that surprised that you're still noticing an increase at 5 months.
That makes me very hopeful - I would love love love for my natural speaking voice to just be a bit higher - 200-205hz or so.
I am sure you will hit that, Abby. Seems to me that half of the recovery process is simply adjusting to the shortened vocal cords and learning how to use them. Although my voice does feel stronger now than it did a month ago... A lot stronger... usually I can tell when I'm trying to be loud. It's becoming easier to access higher pitches with a louder voice.
It kind of parallels what Dr. Kim told me, that I would have to learn how to use the voice at a higher pitch- it would not happen automatically.
Also the past couple of months I have been humming and lightly singing... I definitely have my mid range back but the high range is what I'm werkin on!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 16, 2013, 06:44:40 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 16, 2013, 06:44:40 PM
I still adore your voice so much, Jenny! Seriously it is amazing. For some reason I think that you did some weird kind of intonation on the rainbow passage there, but I am not an english native speaker, so I am not sure, just I thought the intonation was different last time?
tomorrow I will call the voice clinic here and see if I can get an examination and voice training. I did some more recordings and my F0 according to praat is now often in the 170-190 range, so somehow I slipped back into a more female F0 range in conversations it seems, it depends on my mood though. But I have resonance issues and my voice totally strains. I am being silly a bit now and try to convince everyone at work that I have constantly had reoccuring/chronic throat infections for the past years, which is quite believable given that I did had lots of issues in the past months. The reason is that if I do some major changes to my voice now by training and quite possibly by surgery, I need a coverstory - I dont know if it is believable. Need to start another thread on that.
What i really love about your voice Jenny is how clear it is - that makes all the beauty. F0 is a definitive plus too. 236 Hz thats really up there ;)
tomorrow I will call the voice clinic here and see if I can get an examination and voice training. I did some more recordings and my F0 according to praat is now often in the 170-190 range, so somehow I slipped back into a more female F0 range in conversations it seems, it depends on my mood though. But I have resonance issues and my voice totally strains. I am being silly a bit now and try to convince everyone at work that I have constantly had reoccuring/chronic throat infections for the past years, which is quite believable given that I did had lots of issues in the past months. The reason is that if I do some major changes to my voice now by training and quite possibly by surgery, I need a coverstory - I dont know if it is believable. Need to start another thread on that.
What i really love about your voice Jenny is how clear it is - that makes all the beauty. F0 is a definitive plus too. 236 Hz thats really up there ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 07:00:43 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 07:00:43 PM
Thanks Anja!! Yeah I have been trying to forget the millions of times I've practiced the rainbow passage with an intonation I have come to know so well. Otherwise if I don't it's beginning to feel a little too practiced and almost like cheating for more Hz or something.
Yeah colds are sucky. I've had a lingering chest cold that was giving me tons of issues with my voice the past couple of weeks. Phlegm = not good for feminine voice! No matter how much water I drank, it did not even matter. Good thing it's really cleared up today, because it was starting giving me pangs of dysphoria!
As far as a coverstory, you could always say that you need to have a corrective vocal cord surgery which wouldn't even be a lie... Then if they ask about it you could just say that you're getting a polyp removed because it was causing a vocal tremor. Very similar recovery ;)
Yeah colds are sucky. I've had a lingering chest cold that was giving me tons of issues with my voice the past couple of weeks. Phlegm = not good for feminine voice! No matter how much water I drank, it did not even matter. Good thing it's really cleared up today, because it was starting giving me pangs of dysphoria!
As far as a coverstory, you could always say that you need to have a corrective vocal cord surgery which wouldn't even be a lie... Then if they ask about it you could just say that you're getting a polyp removed because it was causing a vocal tremor. Very similar recovery ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige on October 16, 2013, 09:42:40 PM
Post by: Paige on October 16, 2013, 09:42:40 PM
Jenny you really seemed to have got this transitioning down to a science. Your voice sounds great, your profile pics keep getting better and better. Every time I look at them I can't believe how feminine you've become. If I ever get up the nerve to do it, I'm definitely going to follow your lead.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 09:58:42 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 09:58:42 PM
Seconding that you look fantastic Jenny!!
Also I wanted to share an awesome thing that just happened. So I was watching a TV show and I laughed out loud really hard for the first time since surgery. I've laughed before but it was always really quiet because my voice was weak and I also didn't want to laugh too hard on accident.
So anyway I'm watching this TV show and laughing out loud for a while. A few minutes later my dad came into the room and told me how feminine my laugh sounded. It was the first time he heard it and at first he thought one of my friends came over and he didn't hear them come in the door. He was seriously shocked at how feminine it sounded!
That's just one of the awesome side benefits of this surgery. Not having to think about my laugh at all and having it sound feminine is so nice! It definitely is something I would have hated to have to focus on. I was having enough trouble with my voice that working on a feminine laugh was a complete after thought.
I just can't wait to hear what everything is like when it's fully healed!!
Also I wanted to share an awesome thing that just happened. So I was watching a TV show and I laughed out loud really hard for the first time since surgery. I've laughed before but it was always really quiet because my voice was weak and I also didn't want to laugh too hard on accident.
So anyway I'm watching this TV show and laughing out loud for a while. A few minutes later my dad came into the room and told me how feminine my laugh sounded. It was the first time he heard it and at first he thought one of my friends came over and he didn't hear them come in the door. He was seriously shocked at how feminine it sounded!
That's just one of the awesome side benefits of this surgery. Not having to think about my laugh at all and having it sound feminine is so nice! It definitely is something I would have hated to have to focus on. I was having enough trouble with my voice that working on a feminine laugh was a complete after thought.
I just can't wait to hear what everything is like when it's fully healed!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 10:10:55 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 16, 2013, 10:10:55 PM
Quote from: Paige on October 16, 2013, 09:42:40 PM
Jenny you really seemed to have got this transitioning down to a science. Your voice sounds great, your profile pics keep getting better and better. Every time I look at them I can't believe how feminine you've become. If I ever get up the nerve to do it, I'm definitely going to follow your lead.
Thank you so much Paige :D :D :D Your comment really warmed my heart! I hope you find that nerve and show it who's boss! Lol
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 16, 2013, 09:58:42 PM
Seconding that you look fantastic Jenny!!
Also I wanted to share an awesome thing that just happened. So I was watching a TV show and I laughed out loud really hard for the first time since surgery. I've laughed before but it was always really quiet because my voice was weak and I also didn't want to laugh too hard on accident.
So anyway I'm watching this TV show and laughing out loud for a while. A few minutes later my dad came into the room and told me how feminine my laugh sounded. It was the first time he heard it and at first he thought one of my friends came over and he didn't hear them come in the door. He was seriously shocked at how feminine it sounded!
That's just one of the awesome side benefits of this surgery. Not having to think about my laugh at all and having it sound feminine is so nice! It definitely is something I would have hated to have to focus on. I was having enough trouble with my voice that working on a feminine laugh was a complete after thought.
I just can't wait to hear what everything is like when it's fully healed!!
Thanks so much Abby!
Yeah the laugh is a MAJOR bonus. I remember when I started to find my new laugh. So super exciting with the realization that it's not going away either given any circumstance. Congrats on the discovery! Keep em coming!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 12:58:26 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 12:58:26 AM
Aww :) - you are back at making promotions there ;) - no, seriously this all sounds quite amazing, I keep wondering and searching for where the flaw is, the things not told that make it less than fantastic, but can see only few so far (though reduced vocal range and the need to still tightly control resonance are some points).
Yes I think my voice genuinely suffers these days - maybe its psychosomatic as so many health issues I had. As in - I hate my voice thus I get sickness there for months and years making it worse. I probably even really have some damage, so I would maybe not even be lying for my coverstory, it would be hard to explain a pitch increase though, but from what I gather here, I might not really have a pitch increase with this kind of surgery anyways, but I cannot be sure as I think some questions I have are hard to answer. Like I get the impression that with such a surgery, I would not actually get a pitch increase in my speaking voice as it is now (with increased pitch by training) that much, but would be able to relax a bit more when trying to maintain that pitch and cut off some of the lower parts so I dont accidentially slip into them. So in the end I might sound more or less as on days now on which I am having a decent pitch control. But I cannot be sure of that. I already told them that i will do voice training also for loudness because I am lecturing for students as well and they have issues hearing me in the back. This will be another challenge in case I do surgery - I could not do this for several months I guess - how long until you can speak in a similar volume after this surgery? half a year? And they would probably wonder as well why I sound different if that happens. In a way I desire and crave that it sound different after, but in a way it also might cause some issues. Paradoxically I fear a bit that having this would actually in some cases cause people to be suspicious about my past rather than not having it - it would rather be an "investment" in the future. I'd not like it much if my coworkers or students would get the rumours that I had a voice change surgery because I was trans or something like that...
Oh and I saw the changed avatar photo as well - you are looking amazing Jenny, this in combination with your great face and the wonderful vooice, you are one success story!
The thing about the laugh was great too - I dont even know how I sound laughing, I think I have a "brek" in there between giggling and laughing a bit at high pitch and laughing louder which isa at a lower pitch. I thought this would be among the things controlled by resonance stuff as well, good to hear that it also changes from this procedure.
Yes I think my voice genuinely suffers these days - maybe its psychosomatic as so many health issues I had. As in - I hate my voice thus I get sickness there for months and years making it worse. I probably even really have some damage, so I would maybe not even be lying for my coverstory, it would be hard to explain a pitch increase though, but from what I gather here, I might not really have a pitch increase with this kind of surgery anyways, but I cannot be sure as I think some questions I have are hard to answer. Like I get the impression that with such a surgery, I would not actually get a pitch increase in my speaking voice as it is now (with increased pitch by training) that much, but would be able to relax a bit more when trying to maintain that pitch and cut off some of the lower parts so I dont accidentially slip into them. So in the end I might sound more or less as on days now on which I am having a decent pitch control. But I cannot be sure of that. I already told them that i will do voice training also for loudness because I am lecturing for students as well and they have issues hearing me in the back. This will be another challenge in case I do surgery - I could not do this for several months I guess - how long until you can speak in a similar volume after this surgery? half a year? And they would probably wonder as well why I sound different if that happens. In a way I desire and crave that it sound different after, but in a way it also might cause some issues. Paradoxically I fear a bit that having this would actually in some cases cause people to be suspicious about my past rather than not having it - it would rather be an "investment" in the future. I'd not like it much if my coworkers or students would get the rumours that I had a voice change surgery because I was trans or something like that...
Oh and I saw the changed avatar photo as well - you are looking amazing Jenny, this in combination with your great face and the wonderful vooice, you are one success story!
The thing about the laugh was great too - I dont even know how I sound laughing, I think I have a "brek" in there between giggling and laughing a bit at high pitch and laughing louder which isa at a lower pitch. I thought this would be among the things controlled by resonance stuff as well, good to hear that it also changes from this procedure.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 17, 2013, 10:52:36 AM
Post by: sarahb on October 17, 2013, 10:52:36 AM
anjaq - I'm running through those same questions regarding everyone hearing a difference in the voice and essentially likely "coming out" to everyone who I'm currently not out to. This includes my work, which up until I told my bosses that I needed time off for voice surgery I hadn't come out to any of them. This also includes my boyfriend's family. I haven't told any of them and I'm pretty darn sure that they'll notice the difference. That's actually one of the biggest factors in me wanting to get this surgery is that my voice wavers so much around his family, since they have a large extended family and it seems like I'm almost always meeting someone new. Every time I have to meet someone new I get really self-conscious about my voice and it fluctuates wildly. After the surgery it will [hopefully] be solidly female. On one hand it'll be great since I won't have anymore hesitation around them, but on the other hand they'll likely suspect something.
It's an interesting dichotomy since I'm naturally a pretty overt person, but my voice has made it impossible for me to feel comfortable socializing or doing anything that involves speaking (which affects so many different areas of my life, from calling to make appointments with doctors, to going shopping, to ordering food at restaurants). It sucks that I have to consciously think before I ever say a single word, and when I do talk I'm always thinking of how I sound and whether I need to make adjustments. It takes so much effort and concentration just to do that, that I don't engage in the situation itself.
That's the only reason I'm doing this surgery, to allow me to engage in life 100% and to stop engaging in myself. I have been able to feel completely comfortable with my appearance and knowing that I pass physically, so it would seem, everywhere to where I don't ever think about that aspect of passing. But really, the thing that I associate with myself the most is my voice, since I hear myself all the time...I don't see myself all the time. Always hearing a guy (or at least a "fake" female voice) has made it so hard to completely let go of my past and fully let myself out. I can't even imagine how much having a passable female voice, without any effort, will change my life.
Also, Jenny, I have to agree with everyone else in that you're coming along amazingly!
Abby, that sounds amazing! That, right there, is exactly what I'm talking about. Being able to just live life and fully engage in whatever you're doing without an afterthought.
It's an interesting dichotomy since I'm naturally a pretty overt person, but my voice has made it impossible for me to feel comfortable socializing or doing anything that involves speaking (which affects so many different areas of my life, from calling to make appointments with doctors, to going shopping, to ordering food at restaurants). It sucks that I have to consciously think before I ever say a single word, and when I do talk I'm always thinking of how I sound and whether I need to make adjustments. It takes so much effort and concentration just to do that, that I don't engage in the situation itself.
That's the only reason I'm doing this surgery, to allow me to engage in life 100% and to stop engaging in myself. I have been able to feel completely comfortable with my appearance and knowing that I pass physically, so it would seem, everywhere to where I don't ever think about that aspect of passing. But really, the thing that I associate with myself the most is my voice, since I hear myself all the time...I don't see myself all the time. Always hearing a guy (or at least a "fake" female voice) has made it so hard to completely let go of my past and fully let myself out. I can't even imagine how much having a passable female voice, without any effort, will change my life.
Also, Jenny, I have to agree with everyone else in that you're coming along amazingly!
Abby, that sounds amazing! That, right there, is exactly what I'm talking about. Being able to just live life and fully engage in whatever you're doing without an afterthought.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on October 17, 2013, 11:41:07 AM
Post by: Shantel on October 17, 2013, 11:41:07 AM
Sarah,
Your comments are such a straight forward assessment of what holds us all in it's grip of fear and self doubt. I am so impressed with what Yeson is able to accomplish for people, it is obviously the best answer to that "elephant in the room" problem that we all experience.
Your comments are such a straight forward assessment of what holds us all in it's grip of fear and self doubt. I am so impressed with what Yeson is able to accomplish for people, it is obviously the best answer to that "elephant in the room" problem that we all experience.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 17, 2013, 01:14:41 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 17, 2013, 01:14:41 PM
Thanks Anja and SarahR. It's one thing to feel good about transition to myself, but to hear other people responding to it in such a positive way is something I truly appreciate. Thank you guys :D
Sarah- that is pretty much the exact reason I chose to have this surgery. Even at just 5 months into transition and just starting to pass decently enough visually, I was very much in tune with becoming overly conscious about my voice as the void between those parts of my presentation began to grow. In order to avoid the months or years worth of adjustment and struggle I saw myself needing to acquire a passable voice, I decided to act swiftly and deliberately and go to Yeson in an attempt to avoid it all and have a few added benefits in the process.
I cannot imagine doing it any other way given how comfortable things are now. Whenever I see people who haven't met with me since before my transition, it is a shock for them- but easy for me to forget how different I look/sound compared to a year ago. I think this surgery played a HUGE role (if not the biggest) in allowing me to continue the happy parade without any hiccups whatsoever. Next and final step: SRS!
Sarah- that is pretty much the exact reason I chose to have this surgery. Even at just 5 months into transition and just starting to pass decently enough visually, I was very much in tune with becoming overly conscious about my voice as the void between those parts of my presentation began to grow. In order to avoid the months or years worth of adjustment and struggle I saw myself needing to acquire a passable voice, I decided to act swiftly and deliberately and go to Yeson in an attempt to avoid it all and have a few added benefits in the process.
I cannot imagine doing it any other way given how comfortable things are now. Whenever I see people who haven't met with me since before my transition, it is a shock for them- but easy for me to forget how different I look/sound compared to a year ago. I think this surgery played a HUGE role (if not the biggest) in allowing me to continue the happy parade without any hiccups whatsoever. Next and final step: SRS!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 06:09:46 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 06:09:46 PM
Jenny, I envy you a bit I must say. I was way too scared ( and probably not without reason ) to have a voice surgery that early in transition - it would have helped me a bunch I can imagine. Instead I followed the advice of everyone to not do that and tried without and now thats where it has lead me - 15 years later I still have voice problems, passing problems as a result and self confidence problems.
At least I made a first step today and got an appointment at the voice clinig here who will do an assessment of my voice. They told me it takes 3 hours, so I guess they will do a thorough checkup and see if I damaged my voice in some way or if there are any secondary reasons it sounds bad other than testosterone poisoning. And then I most likely will get a recipe for voice training first which means I get to pay only a small fee in addition to insurance money and get 6 or 10 training sessions and maybe a repeat of that later. I am nervous about trying to talk to them about voice surgery though. They may not be in favour of that but they are more qualified to tell me if it makes sense for me or not than other transpeople who seem to be scared >-bleeped-< of VFS mostly. I also requested some information from the VFS surgeon in Berlin, but got no reply yet. With the state of my voice now I think VFS would be a mistake as I would probably loose too much vocal range and still sound not so great because of the roughness in my voice (maybe wrong resonance too). I really want to have a clear and clean voice as yours Jenny :D
So I dont know what will happen - I am trying to set up this coverstory there of having frequent throat infections (which is not even a lie) and then maybe tell something about having polyps or cycts removed from the vocal cords and explain my changes with that if I have any changes with training or surgery. I dont know if it is believable.
I mean if that surgery could assure me that I would never have to worry about my voice again, I would be extremely tempted, but again everyone says that it can only solve pitch and that is like 30% of the deal.
So I hope this is true and with this step you really can just stop worrying or thinking at all about the voice. It seems that initially you have to do even more self-watching and training and all that than before. Some people claim that this sort of voice training that you do post op in this case are the more important part as in them you basically let the other stuff that makes voice sound female sink into your memory.
At least I made a first step today and got an appointment at the voice clinig here who will do an assessment of my voice. They told me it takes 3 hours, so I guess they will do a thorough checkup and see if I damaged my voice in some way or if there are any secondary reasons it sounds bad other than testosterone poisoning. And then I most likely will get a recipe for voice training first which means I get to pay only a small fee in addition to insurance money and get 6 or 10 training sessions and maybe a repeat of that later. I am nervous about trying to talk to them about voice surgery though. They may not be in favour of that but they are more qualified to tell me if it makes sense for me or not than other transpeople who seem to be scared >-bleeped-< of VFS mostly. I also requested some information from the VFS surgeon in Berlin, but got no reply yet. With the state of my voice now I think VFS would be a mistake as I would probably loose too much vocal range and still sound not so great because of the roughness in my voice (maybe wrong resonance too). I really want to have a clear and clean voice as yours Jenny :D
So I dont know what will happen - I am trying to set up this coverstory there of having frequent throat infections (which is not even a lie) and then maybe tell something about having polyps or cycts removed from the vocal cords and explain my changes with that if I have any changes with training or surgery. I dont know if it is believable.
Quote from: SarahR on October 17, 2013, 10:52:36 AMHave you thought of some strategy as to how to explain this? You are doing this VFS rather late as well IIRC - like 5 years after transition or so? i dont remember, sorry. Will you make up a coverstory?
anjaq - I'm running through those same questions regarding everyone hearing a difference in the voice and essentially likely "coming out" to everyone who I'm currently not out to.
QuoteAfter the surgery it will [hopefully] be solidly female. On one hand it'll be great since I won't have anymore hesitation around them, but on the other hand they'll likely suspect something.Well I gues sif you got all the other things under control, it will be. But yeah its a paradox. Like with me, I would really want to get my voice in order to not be throught of as trans by coworkers and students - but maybe doing such a change would cause exactly that... bugs me...
QuoteIt sucks that I have to consciously think before I ever say a single word, and when I do talk I'm always thinking of how I sound and whether I need to make adjustments. It takes so much effort and concentration just to do that, that I don't engage in the situation itself.That sounds perfect. Do you think it will be like that? If so this is seriously great stuff. My worry is that because it only changes pitch and nothing else, I would after this still have to consciously think about stuff when speaking and make adjustments. Especially resonance but also the other stuff like inflection. Someone sent me in chat a recording of a 130 Hz voice with good resonance control and I had a hard time to gender it male because of the frequency as the resonance seemed so clearly female. And I think to keep that controlled also takes a conscious effort, does it not? What are you doing right now - probably already resonance control and then trying pitch as well? With me it is so depending on who I am with and in what situation if I have 130 Hz, 150Hz or even 190Hz on average and what my bandwisth at that moment is. Around friends it is lower (more relaxed), in a bar it is higher (as thats the only way others can understand me at all in the noise)
That's the only reason I'm doing this surgery, to allow me to engage in life 100% and to stop engaging in myself.
I mean if that surgery could assure me that I would never have to worry about my voice again, I would be extremely tempted, but again everyone says that it can only solve pitch and that is like 30% of the deal.
QuoteAlways hearing a guy (or at least a "fake" female voice) has made it so hard to completely let go of my past and fully let myself out. I can't even imagine how much having a passable female voice, without any effort, will change my life.Yes to that. I feel always weird "doing my voice" even though it really is second nature now to me and I cannot do my "male voice" without large effort. It still sounds and feels to me like it is a voice I dont really identify with, it sounds rather androgynous to me and others unless maybe I put more effort into it in which case it sounds more "fake". I focus so much on speaking that it bugs me as it is just always a reminder of my trans-ness and i cannot just let it go.
So I hope this is true and with this step you really can just stop worrying or thinking at all about the voice. It seems that initially you have to do even more self-watching and training and all that than before. Some people claim that this sort of voice training that you do post op in this case are the more important part as in them you basically let the other stuff that makes voice sound female sink into your memory.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 17, 2013, 07:12:24 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 17, 2013, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 06:09:46 PM
Have you thought of some strategy as to how to explain this? You are doing this VFS rather late as well IIRC - like 5 years after transition or so? i dont remember, sorry. Will you make up a coverstory?
Yeah, I first came out to myself around late '05 and went full-time on December 15th, 2007, so I've been on this journey for a good 7 or 8 years, full-time for almost 6 years. I actually don't really care if people suspect I'm trans afterward due to my voice being different than before. If they ask I'd likely just say yeah, I'm trans. I had no problem coming out to my bosses when I told them about the surgery. It's actually funny now that I say that since in my mind there have been two points for me wanting this surgery. The first being that I don't want to be clocked when I talk (which I really don't think happens often). The second reason though, and way more important one, is that I want to feel like it's "me" when I talk. I always focus on the first point though, when really the second point is the more important one for me, since I really don't care if people know I'm trans so long as they treat me with the dignity and respect I give them. Right now when I talk I feel like someone else's voice is saying my words. It's like before when I looked in the mirror and saw someone else looking back. The physical part is over with, I can look in the mirror and I see myself completely. But then out comes this voice that totally breaks the disconnect between my body and my mind.
Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 06:09:46 PM
That sounds perfect. Do you think it will be like that? If so this is seriously great stuff. My worry is that because it only changes pitch and nothing else, I would after this still have to consciously think about stuff when speaking and make adjustments. Especially resonance but also the other stuff like inflection. Someone sent me in chat a recording of a 130 Hz voice with good resonance control and I had a hard time to gender it male because of the frequency as the resonance seemed so clearly female. And I think to keep that controlled also takes a conscious effort, does it not? What are you doing right now - probably already resonance control and then trying pitch as well? With me it is so depending on who I am with and in what situation if I have 130 Hz, 150Hz or even 190Hz on average and what my bandwisth at that moment is. Around friends it is lower (more relaxed), in a bar it is higher (as thats the only way others can understand me at all in the noise)
I really do think it'll be like that. For me, being full-time for as long as I have I've gotten past so many of the barriers that I put up to protect myself. I'm sure you can relate. In those few times where I absolutely forget about thinking about my voice I am truly and completely myself, free, outspoken. I look back at the rest of the times and I can honestly say that the only thing I have any sort of dysphoria with is my voice, and the only thing I think about with regard to transition is my voice. If I can attain a passable voice with no effort, one that I can finally hear as my own, it will be the final piece of the puzzle. I can say that with 100% confidence.
Quote from: anjaq on October 17, 2013, 06:09:46 PM
I mean if that surgery could assure me that I would never have to worry about my voice again, I would be extremely tempted, but again everyone says that it can only solve pitch and that is like 30% of the deal.
Yes to that. I feel always weird "doing my voice" even though it really is second nature now to me and I cannot do my "male voice" without large effort. It still sounds and feels to me like it is a voice I dont really identify with, it sounds rather androgynous to me and others unless maybe I put more effort into it in which case it sounds more "fake". I focus so much on speaking that it bugs me as it is just always a reminder of my trans-ness and i cannot just let it go.
So I hope this is true and with this step you really can just stop worrying or thinking at all about the voice. It seems that initially you have to do even more self-watching and training and all that than before. Some people claim that this sort of voice training that you do post op in this case are the more important part as in them you basically let the other stuff that makes voice sound female sink into your memory.
I think I have resonance down pretty well, and I don't really find myself having to think or struggle with resonance. Really it's just the pitch that I have a hard time keeping stable throughout the day. I can have a completely passable voice when I need to, it just never feels real to me since I have to think about it so much, which is the biggest reason why I can't use it all the time. I hate feeling fake and when I talk I feel fake. I know there is some work I'll have to do to get the voice where I want it after surgery. I'm not under this illusion that there will be no work involved. But it'll all be worth it if I can get a passable, and more importantly, natural, voice with such ease as I've heard from Abby and Jenny.
If in the end I don't attain the increase I'm hoping for then I can at least settle my mind down and be content with the fact that I tried. Then I'll be able to move on, no matter the outcome.
All we can do is wait and see I guess. In about 2 months, once I'm more than 1-month post-op and I can talk a little and hear my new voice, I'll make sure and explain in detail exactly how it has changed my life, whether it's for the better or for the worse :) Especially since you and I are both quite far along in our transition it'll be a good barometer to see how the outcome really affects someone in our situation.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 17, 2013, 08:10:09 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 17, 2013, 08:10:09 PM
So I did my 2 month interview for Yeson - they're refunding me 20% of my surgery cost too!!! The downside is that there is a video of me on the internet for all of eternity but I doubt anybody is going to randomly come across it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-awYrlTyQk
Let me know what you guys think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-awYrlTyQk
Let me know what you guys think!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Megumi on October 17, 2013, 09:07:36 PM
Post by: Megumi on October 17, 2013, 09:07:36 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 17, 2013, 08:10:09 PMYou sound great!
So I did my 2 month interview for Yeson - they're refunding me 20% of my surgery cost too!!! The downside is that there is a video of me on the internet for all of eternity but I doubt anybody is going to randomly come across it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH0ah_sTSOY&feature=youtu.be
Let me know what you guys think!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on October 18, 2013, 05:26:22 AM
Post by: Carlita on October 18, 2013, 05:26:22 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 17, 2013, 01:14:41 PM
Thanks Anja and SarahR. It's one thing to feel good about transition to myself, but to hear other people responding to it in such a positive way is something I truly appreciate. Thank you guys :D
Sarah- that is pretty much the exact reason I chose to have this surgery. Even at just 5 months into transition and just starting to pass decently enough visually, I was very much in tune with becoming overly conscious about my voice as the void between those parts of my presentation began to grow. In order to avoid the months or years worth of adjustment and struggle I saw myself needing to acquire a passable voice, I decided to act swiftly and deliberately and go to Yeson in an attempt to avoid it all and have a few added benefits in the process.
I cannot imagine doing it any other way given how comfortable things are now. Whenever I see people who haven't met with me since before my transition, it is a shock for them- but easy for me to forget how different I look/sound compared to a year ago. I think this surgery played a HUGE role (if not the biggest) in allowing me to continue the happy parade without any hiccups whatsoever. Next and final step: SRS!
It's so wonderful - and inspirational - to read such an incredibly positive account of your transition experience. Thank you!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 18, 2013, 06:35:55 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 18, 2013, 06:35:55 AM
Abby, that sounds really good and natural. I am amazed. You are not sounding as girly as Jenny does, but it matches your type really good. And I think the voice will even improve a little bit from what Jenny described in terms of fullness. Happy for you :D ;D
And I totally get what you are saying there about it feeling like someones elses voice. I mean probably everyone feels that way when listening to a recording , but to me even hearing my voice in my head sounds ... odd ... spiced with a few grains of dysphoria. I still also have issues with mirrors though, I need to work on getting that out of my head. My face is sort of ok, but it still is androgynous so it can go both ways depending on my mood :\ Any tips on how you solved that? (Not to be too much offtopic here, maybe via PM)
And yes - I do have these moments wher eI dont think about the voice and relax and feel all right but as you can guess this also means things drop and it is even tougher to stand that exactly at those good moments I can count on someone making a comment about my voice or misgendering me. Yeah great - at tha tprecise moment when I am open (and vulnerable).
Quote from: SarahR on October 17, 2013, 07:12:24 PM...I've been on this journey for a good 7 or 8 years, full-time for almost 6 years. I actually don't really care if people suspect I'm trans afterward due to my voice being different than before. If they ask I'd likely just say yeah, I'm trans. I had no problem coming out to my bosses when I told them about the surgery. It's actually funny now that I say that since in my mind there have been two points for me wanting this surgery. The first being that I don't want to be clocked when I talk (which I really don't think happens often). The second reason though, and way more important one, is that I want to feel like it's "me" when I talk. I always focus on the first point though, when really the second point is the more important one for me, since I really don't care if people know I'm trans so long as they treat me with the dignity and respect I give them.That is a healthy attitude and I guess I should work on getting back to that. I kind of lost it some years ago, since no one did actually ask me about being trans and I did not feel the need to come out about it to anyone. But honestly the insecurity about if people know or suspect and the dread of the moment they may ask is not nice, it is hard for me to decide if I shlud admit or not - if I do to one person, it will travel of course. Strangely enough while no one asked me openly, I was misgendered a couple of times and that was totall at odds with my other experiences.
Right now when I talk I feel like someone else's voice is saying my words. It's like before when I looked in the mirror and saw someone else looking back. The physical part is over with, I can look in the mirror and I see myself completely. But then out comes this voice that totally breaks the disconnect between my body and my mind.
And I totally get what you are saying there about it feeling like someones elses voice. I mean probably everyone feels that way when listening to a recording , but to me even hearing my voice in my head sounds ... odd ... spiced with a few grains of dysphoria. I still also have issues with mirrors though, I need to work on getting that out of my head. My face is sort of ok, but it still is androgynous so it can go both ways depending on my mood :\ Any tips on how you solved that? (Not to be too much offtopic here, maybe via PM)
QuoteI really do think it'll be like that. For me, being full-time for as long as I have I've gotten past so many of the barriers that I put up to protect myself. I'm sure you can relate. In those few times where I absolutely forget about thinking about my voice I am truly and completely myself, free, outspoken. I look back at the rest of the times and I can honestly say that the only thing I have any sort of dysphoria with is my voice, and the only thing I think about with regard to transition is my voice. If I can attain a passable voice with no effort, one that I can finally hear as my own, it will be the final piece of the puzzle. I can say that with 100% confidence.Sigh - that sounds great. I so hope this will be as you expect it to be and that you can report back with good news (but dont hold back with the bad ones if you have any ;) ) once you are done with this. And oh yes, I put up sooo many barriers and so many of them were gone with transition and SRS, but indeed I still have some. Just situations where I feel awkward and not at odds with myself as if I still have to "pretend" - but this time to "pretend to be female" while I am not - in a physical sense that is - internally this affects me badly because my mind just does not get it why I would have to do that and reacts by thinking at the back of my head that if I have to "pretend to be female", then I must be something else and that is not a good feeling. And these situations circle basically around two main issues - that is voice (like constantly thinking about doing the voice right - and still not getting there) and the other one is face (which basically as a main consequence leads to me nervously brushing my bangs into my face when being around other people). These situations are a reminder of me having that trans past and they bug me. So I think I would give a lot if that would go away, just as you say. If it really comes out to not having to worry about voice anymore at all, its bliss.
And yes - I do have these moments wher eI dont think about the voice and relax and feel all right but as you can guess this also means things drop and it is even tougher to stand that exactly at those good moments I can count on someone making a comment about my voice or misgendering me. Yeah great - at tha tprecise moment when I am open (and vulnerable).
QuoteI think I have resonance down pretty well, and I don't really find myself having to think or struggle with resonance. Really it's just the pitch that I have a hard time keeping stable throughout the day. I can have a completely passable voice when I need to, it just never feels real to me since I have to think about it so much, which is the biggest reason why I can't use it all the time. I hate feeling fake and when I talk I feel fake. I know there is some work I'll have to do to get the voice where I want it after surgery. I'm not under this illusion that there will be no work involved. But it'll all be worth it if I can get a passable, and more importantly, natural, voice with such ease as I've heard from Abby and Jenny.Ok yoou have an advantage then there as I seem to struggle with that a bit. Maybe its because I try to focus on both at the same time, pitch and resonance - I dont know. I was convinced I had resonance down quite well but my recent analysis does not say that it is good yet, even though my chest resonance is gone, there is something else that is not great. Can you have a head resonance that is male? I dont know. I will ask the people at the voice clinic in 4 weeks if they can tell me something. I definitely will do the voice training first and see if I can at least get there with effort and then think again if that effort is something I have to do always or if it will become "second nature" as some others claim. In any case I just set a $500 monthy savings transfer. In case I decide in favour of Yeson, I can have it in 2 years if I can maintain that cash flow. I will have to reduce other expenses though :\ . Still have not heard much about Berlin. Thats not the best sign. But yeah that "fake" feeling is what bugs me hugely even with my voice now as it is and as it has become "second nature" - it still is just "second" - so I do it automatically but it still feels weird. I cannot really snap out of it though, so I guess if I would go for VFS, I would also have to learn to actually relax more in some ways.
QuoteIf in the end I don't attain the increase I'm hoping for then I can at least settle my mind down and be content with the fact that I tried. Then I'll be able to move on, no matter the outcome.Well I think my biggest worries would not be that the increase does not happen, I think that is pretty much certain. More about the side effects like decreased vocal range. In my case thats a biggie and I will have to check with the clinic in 4 weeks and see what my ranges are now and how I could improve them as presently I am pretty much feeling restricted there already. If I would loose much more, I may become monotonous and then fail passing because I cannot do the pitch changes anymore :\ - So I need to get that checked first.
QuoteAll we can do is wait and see I guess. In about 2 months, once I'm more than 1-month post-op and I can talk a little and hear my new voice, I'll make sure and explain in detail exactly how it has changed my life, whether it's for the better or for the worse :) Especially since you and I are both quite far along in our transition it'll be a good barometer to see how the outcome really affects someone in our situation.Oh thank you , It will read your every word on that because indeed we have at least somewhat similar situations being so far from the beginning of transition. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 18, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 18, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 17, 2013, 08:10:09 PM
So I did my 2 month interview for Yeson - they're refunding me 20% of my surgery cost too!!! The downside is that there is a video of me on the internet for all of eternity but I doubt anybody is going to randomly come across it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-awYrlTyQk
Let me know what you guys think!
Hmm, the video doesn't seem to be working anymore.
Edit: Interesting, it's working again. Before I was getting a message saying the user removed the video.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 18, 2013, 01:51:03 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 18, 2013, 01:51:03 PM
Quote from: SarahR on October 18, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
Hmm, the video doesn't seem to be working anymore.
Edit: Interesting, it's working again. Before I was getting a message saying the user removed the video.
Yeah same!
Sounding fantastically feminine, Abby!!! You have a very natural voice, it suits you so well! :D
Where's kathyp? So curious to hear her results, too.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 18, 2013, 01:53:11 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 18, 2013, 01:53:11 PM
Thanks guys :)
And yeah I re-uploaded it. I hate how Google forces you to use your full real name now, so I took down the first one and put it up under an alternate account.
And yeah I re-uploaded it. I hate how Google forces you to use your full real name now, so I took down the first one and put it up under an alternate account.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on October 20, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
Post by: barbie on October 20, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
Abby,
Your voice sounds feminine and natural. Above all, you look and sound confident.
One interesting point is that both you and Jenny pronounce so accurately that even non-native English speakers like me easily understand your talking.
Barbie~~
Your voice sounds feminine and natural. Above all, you look and sound confident.
One interesting point is that both you and Jenny pronounce so accurately that even non-native English speakers like me easily understand your talking.
Barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 21, 2013, 10:04:54 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 21, 2013, 10:04:54 PM
Ok so I was just doing my vocal exercises on the way home from work, and I made a huge discovery.
I dunno if you remember me talking about the "squeak register" as I was calling it... It is definitely not a squeak anymore. It's becoming my new head voice, I am sure of it.
SO what does that mean?? It means I am now consistently and accurately making a clean sound up to about 1050hz or C6!!! There is still a bit of a dead zone which is rather inaccurate at around 670-700hz where the crossover exists between my normal register and this new one.
Before, it used sound tinny and pinched- but now it's starting to sound very round and clean. I literally almost cried as I tried to sing a C6 with different vowel sounds and it WORKED!
I'm smiling ear to ear right now!!! I was beginning to accept that I might have lost vocal range, but not anymore. I've never been able to make these noises consistently until now. I am so excited I might have to do some jumping jacks!!!
:D :D :D
I dunno if you remember me talking about the "squeak register" as I was calling it... It is definitely not a squeak anymore. It's becoming my new head voice, I am sure of it.
SO what does that mean?? It means I am now consistently and accurately making a clean sound up to about 1050hz or C6!!! There is still a bit of a dead zone which is rather inaccurate at around 670-700hz where the crossover exists between my normal register and this new one.
Before, it used sound tinny and pinched- but now it's starting to sound very round and clean. I literally almost cried as I tried to sing a C6 with different vowel sounds and it WORKED!
I'm smiling ear to ear right now!!! I was beginning to accept that I might have lost vocal range, but not anymore. I've never been able to make these noises consistently until now. I am so excited I might have to do some jumping jacks!!!
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 21, 2013, 10:20:10 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 21, 2013, 10:20:10 PM
Here is a current comparison of my range pre and post op (all of these are an estimation +/- 1 or 2 wholetones)
Pre-op
Chest bottom end: Eb2 - 78hz
Chest top end: E4 - 330hz
Head bottom end: D4 - 294hz
Head top end: C5 - 523hz
Overall range: just under 3 octaves
Immediately post-op
Chest bottom end: D3 - 147hz
Chest top end: E4 - 330hz
Head bottom end: E4 - 330hz
Head top end: Bb4 - 460hz
Overall range: 1.5 octaves
Currently
Chest bottom end: D3 - 147hz
Chest top end: A4 - 440hz
?Head? bottom end: E4 - 330hz
?Head? top end: E5 - 660hz
New register bottom end: G5 - 784hz
New register top end: Db6 - 1109hz
Overall range: just under 3 octaves
* The reason I have ?Head? with question marks is because it seems to blend with the chest voice
Pre-op
Chest bottom end: Eb2 - 78hz
Chest top end: E4 - 330hz
Head bottom end: D4 - 294hz
Head top end: C5 - 523hz
Overall range: just under 3 octaves
Immediately post-op
Chest bottom end: D3 - 147hz
Chest top end: E4 - 330hz
Head bottom end: E4 - 330hz
Head top end: Bb4 - 460hz
Overall range: 1.5 octaves
Currently
Chest bottom end: D3 - 147hz
Chest top end: A4 - 440hz
?Head? bottom end: E4 - 330hz
?Head? top end: E5 - 660hz
New register bottom end: G5 - 784hz
New register top end: Db6 - 1109hz
Overall range: just under 3 octaves
* The reason I have ?Head? with question marks is because it seems to blend with the chest voice
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 21, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 21, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 21, 2013, 10:20:10 PM
Here is a current comparison of my range pre and post op (all of these are an estimation +/- 1 or 2 wholetones)
Pre-op
Chest bottom end: Eb2 - 78hz
Chest top end: E4 - 330hz
Head bottom end: D4 - 294hz
Head top end: C5 - 523hz
Overall range: just under 3 octaves
Immediately post-op
Chest bottom end: D3 - 147hz
Chest top end: E4 - 330hz
Head bottom end: E4 - 330hz
Head top end: Bb4 - 460hz
Overall range: 1.5 octaves
Currently
Chest bottom end: D3 - 147hz
Chest top end: A4 - 440hz
?Head? bottom end: E4 - 330hz
?Head? top end: E5 - 660hz
New register bottom end: G5 - 784hz
New register top end: Db6 - 1109hz
Overall range: just under 3 octaves
* The reason I have ?Head? with question marks is because it seems to blend with the chest voice
Awesome! Congrats on the new discovery. Those numbers are pretty amazing! How does this play into singing? I know you mentioned you tried to "sing" some vowels, have you tried singing in general and if so what is it like?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 22, 2013, 03:20:17 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 22, 2013, 03:20:17 AM
That sounds awesome, Jenny! Is that very high register the one that is called "Falsetto"? I think that is usually what makes the extreme high pitches in a voice. Do you actually use chest voice now for regular speaking? I am confused, I was told that using the chest voice would be connected to a deep resonance that no matter the pitch would cause a timbre that may sound male-ish? Maybe you can describe this a bit more, I would be glad to hear. Maybe I will get more info at the voice clinic in 3 weeks and they can tell me about these registers and the voice rehab person can maybe tell me about resonance. I think face to face it may be easier to explain. By then I will have the first $$ on my savings account. I am a bit nervours but also excited that I think no matter how this runs now I have a good chance that I will get some things significantly improved :) - I am starting to have hopes for myself...
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 22, 2013, 04:12:48 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 22, 2013, 04:12:48 AM
Quote from: SarahR on October 21, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
Awesome! Congrats on the new discovery. Those numbers are pretty amazing! How does this play into singing? I know you mentioned you tried to "sing" some vowels, have you tried singing in general and if so what is it like?
I'm slowly getting somewhere, still way not enough steam in the most central range for female singing voice- specifically around G4 to E5. But it is getting better
Quote from: anjaq on October 22, 2013, 03:20:17 AM
That sounds awesome, Jenny! Is that very high register the one that is called "Falsetto"? I think that is usually what makes the extreme high pitches in a voice. Do you actually use chest voice now for regular speaking? I am confused, I was told that using the chest voice would be connected to a deep resonance that no matter the pitch would cause a timbre that may sound male-ish? Maybe you can describe this a bit more, I would be glad to hear. Maybe I will get more info at the voice clinic in 3 weeks and they can tell me about these registers and the voice rehab person can maybe tell me about resonance. I think face to face it may be easier to explain. By then I will have the first $$ on my savings account. I am a bit nervours but also excited that I think no matter how this runs now I have a good chance that I will get some things significantly improved :) - I am starting to have hopes for myself...
I just always connected chest voice to the part with the most power and requiring the most diaphragm support. Head voice being the opposite and carrying a lighter load on the diaphragm and using less air.
Think of falsetto as a way of using head voice- they actually aren't separate registers. Honestly right now I can't make a falsetto noise to save my life. Not that I would ever want to again anyway! Cis females can also use falsetto, but it is harder for them than males. Hence I take the fact that I no longer have falsetto as a good thing.
Yes I use chest voice for talking. Rarely does anyone use a head speaking voice on the regular.. Sometimes females do when they talk gently- I've noticed it on several occasions. Some use head voice more than others, some not at all. Being that the female head voice is what I'm still hoping to develop, I have to stick to chest voice completely for now. But that seems to be perfectly acceptable. If recovery involves developing a fully accessible female head voice, then this surgery is perfect.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 22, 2013, 01:29:55 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 22, 2013, 01:29:55 PM
Ok. Thanks Jenny. I am not sure I understand though. I need to talk to the voice rehab people to learn more. And it will be a bit hard then to relate this to your experiences here. I connected chest voice with the voice you do when resonance is in the chest, that means you can feel the lower part of the throat vibrating. If I do that I sound 100% male. Instead I do this stuff that CandiFla and other voice videos suggest and move the voice box up and get the resonce away from the chest and if one does it well it goes into the head and that is what I considered head voice. You said that you do control resonance, otherwise the sound of your voice would not be that nice and clear and beautiful either :) . Do you avoid chest resonance then as I assume? If so what makes the chest voice you are describing now a chest voice?
This is so confusing :\
This is so confusing :\
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 22, 2013, 08:39:07 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 22, 2013, 08:39:07 PM
It's okay Anja! Just because your resonance changes out of the chest and into the head/nose/face does not make it a head voice.
Voice register (chest or head voice) is a different thing from resonance. They work in tandem. Like I said you want to use your chest voice with a resonance that brings the sound up towards your head. Using a head voice to speak usually sounds like falsetto.
When you change your resonance, you are changing the size/length of your vocal tract which makes the voice sound bigger or smaller.
When you change voice registers, your vocal cords vibrate in an entirely different way and use different parts of the muscle.
Hopefully that sheds some light?
Voice register (chest or head voice) is a different thing from resonance. They work in tandem. Like I said you want to use your chest voice with a resonance that brings the sound up towards your head. Using a head voice to speak usually sounds like falsetto.
When you change your resonance, you are changing the size/length of your vocal tract which makes the voice sound bigger or smaller.
When you change voice registers, your vocal cords vibrate in an entirely different way and use different parts of the muscle.
Hopefully that sheds some light?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 23, 2013, 08:50:20 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 23, 2013, 08:50:20 AM
Yes in a way it makes sense, though I am not sure I exactly know my voice well enough for that. Maybe I just always do both?
What I found is that if I manage to get resonance to where it is better, I automatically increase pitch as well, which kind of makes me wonder if maybe with training to get resonance right, my pitch will just be fine at the same time. Fine meaning 170-180 Hz F0. Or if I have to disconnect pitch and resonance because this is actually what causes me problems with my voice and leads to the problems I have with projection/loudness, missing intonation when I go too high in pitch/low in resonance and most of all the strain that may be a cause of me having throat roughness almost permanently now. I guess I am just really in need for that voice checkup in 3 weeks ;)
What I found is that if I manage to get resonance to where it is better, I automatically increase pitch as well, which kind of makes me wonder if maybe with training to get resonance right, my pitch will just be fine at the same time. Fine meaning 170-180 Hz F0. Or if I have to disconnect pitch and resonance because this is actually what causes me problems with my voice and leads to the problems I have with projection/loudness, missing intonation when I go too high in pitch/low in resonance and most of all the strain that may be a cause of me having throat roughness almost permanently now. I guess I am just really in need for that voice checkup in 3 weeks ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 23, 2013, 09:05:09 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 23, 2013, 09:05:09 AM
Hey guys here's an update on where my voice is at. I just finished my second week of exercises.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkuXP9Rx.png&hash=9d17e7be6b2e87e90e9af7beec0fc6d4a40d4944)
A pretty big increase over one week. I think that part of it is due to the fact that I'm regularly exercising my voice, but also part of it is probably due to me being more aware the pitch. So while the exercises are me speaking normally without focusing on the pitch, I think subconsciously I might be a little bit. So I don't expect to maintain this sort of increase over the course of my recovery, but I'm happy with where things are headed. :)
Edit: Oh and an interesting thing about my voice: as expected, the averages for the speaking exercises (rainbow, "natural, counting, harvard sentences) are higher in the evening than in the morning by a few hz. But the other exercises that focus on a maximum pitch (the glides and the cooldown) are significantly higher in the morning than they are in the evening. This is really surprising to me since I figured my voice would be much more relaxed and warmed up by the time I did my evening exercises. I'm curious if you've noticed the same thing Jenny.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkuXP9Rx.png&hash=9d17e7be6b2e87e90e9af7beec0fc6d4a40d4944)
A pretty big increase over one week. I think that part of it is due to the fact that I'm regularly exercising my voice, but also part of it is probably due to me being more aware the pitch. So while the exercises are me speaking normally without focusing on the pitch, I think subconsciously I might be a little bit. So I don't expect to maintain this sort of increase over the course of my recovery, but I'm happy with where things are headed. :)
Edit: Oh and an interesting thing about my voice: as expected, the averages for the speaking exercises (rainbow, "natural, counting, harvard sentences) are higher in the evening than in the morning by a few hz. But the other exercises that focus on a maximum pitch (the glides and the cooldown) are significantly higher in the morning than they are in the evening. This is really surprising to me since I figured my voice would be much more relaxed and warmed up by the time I did my evening exercises. I'm curious if you've noticed the same thing Jenny.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 23, 2013, 10:47:47 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 23, 2013, 10:47:47 AM
Everything is usually higher for me in the evening, especially the warm up exercises so I'm slightly different.
Looks like you've made some great improvements Abby :) can't wait to hear another sample after a little while!
Looks like you've made some great improvements Abby :) can't wait to hear another sample after a little while!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 23, 2013, 02:39:35 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 23, 2013, 02:39:35 PM
That's interesting. Just continues to prove that we're all different :)
And yes, my voice has improved a lot just since I started those exercises.
I actually re-recorded my interview for Yeson again today since my voice has improved so much recently. The pitch for the first interview was about 189hz, and just now it was 202hz! I'll link the video when Jessie posts it on their account.
And yes, my voice has improved a lot just since I started those exercises.
I actually re-recorded my interview for Yeson again today since my voice has improved so much recently. The pitch for the first interview was about 189hz, and just now it was 202hz! I'll link the video when Jessie posts it on their account.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 24, 2013, 04:19:10 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 24, 2013, 04:19:10 PM
A new message for you guys!
https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-10-24-13
My natural speaking voice has gone up so much just since I started my vocal exercises! It's crazy!
That recording was at 208hz where as on October 7th it was at 181hz. :)
https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-10-24-13
My natural speaking voice has gone up so much just since I started my vocal exercises! It's crazy!
That recording was at 208hz where as on October 7th it was at 181hz. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 24, 2013, 04:42:00 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 24, 2013, 04:42:00 PM
Holy smokes... sounding fantastic! And you're also getting a lot more of the feminine inflections into there... the upward inflections, the pitch variation, the little pauses... fantastic! You sound great!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 24, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 24, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
Sounding GREAT Abby!! Wow what a difference!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on October 24, 2013, 07:17:18 PM
Post by: Shantel on October 24, 2013, 07:17:18 PM
Wow Abby, you're sounding great hon! :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 24, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 24, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
Went up another whole tone today during my voice exercises! Now I'm at F#5 / 740hz!
My goal was to eventually reach F5 and I just surpassed it!! So I guess it's time for a new goal... Here's hoping for an A5 / 880hz!
Keep up the vocal exercises Abby, they make such a HUGE difference! I've been noticing the past week that my reg speaking voice has gone up a little bit, and doing the rainbow reading at 235hz is a lot easier.
So weird how I was stuck at E5 / 660hz for the longest time. There was definitely a period around burning man in the beginning of September that I wasn't doing my exercises as much as I should. But lately, I've been doing them rigidly and the difference is quite noticeable. Going up a whole tone is big to me. I've now gained half an octave on my upper range after the surgery. Let's keep it going, little vocal cords!!
My goal was to eventually reach F5 and I just surpassed it!! So I guess it's time for a new goal... Here's hoping for an A5 / 880hz!
Keep up the vocal exercises Abby, they make such a HUGE difference! I've been noticing the past week that my reg speaking voice has gone up a little bit, and doing the rainbow reading at 235hz is a lot easier.
So weird how I was stuck at E5 / 660hz for the longest time. There was definitely a period around burning man in the beginning of September that I wasn't doing my exercises as much as I should. But lately, I've been doing them rigidly and the difference is quite noticeable. Going up a whole tone is big to me. I've now gained half an octave on my upper range after the surgery. Let's keep it going, little vocal cords!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 24, 2013, 11:39:10 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 24, 2013, 11:39:10 PM
Ok, so this has definitely reinvigorated my excitement for the surgery Abby! I just can't stop hoping that my results turn out as amazing as yours and Jenny's!!! It's getting so close now, just 15 days until I leave. Even with the bad experience that's been discussed in the other thread it just gets overshadowed by excitement when I hear your voice!
Also Jenny, that's amazing that you are seeing such an increase in your upper range like that. I'm interested to see where you're at after 1 year post-op. You'll be easily hitting 1000Hz! :)
Also Jenny, that's amazing that you are seeing such an increase in your upper range like that. I'm interested to see where you're at after 1 year post-op. You'll be easily hitting 1000Hz! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 25, 2013, 01:08:50 AM
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 25, 2013, 01:08:50 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 24, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
I've now gained half an octave on my upper range after the surgery. Let's keep it going, little vocal cords!!
Jesus... that is one hell of an awesome result. And I'll admit, it makes me insanely jealous, because before my voice changed, in that pre-pubertal soprano singing voice that I loved so much, I could sing all the way up to C6. Now after years of emotional turmoil over my voice, training, training, and training some more, doing everything in my power to get my voice back up into the high range on its own, I've gotten my falsetto up to an F5, and I can hit the G5 if I push it. So... man... the prospect of gaining a half-octave, plus of the falsetto sounding natural again... I would basically have my pre-pubertal voice back. Half an octave on top of the F5 would put me all the way up to a C6 again, plus from what you're saying, it wouldn't sound like falsetto anymore.
I know you say that my voice is fine, Jenny, but God, this is seriously starting to sound too good to be true. I'd give almost anything to be able to sing soprano again. Does the falsetto seriously sound naturally female now, rather than the breathy fake cartoon-character Bee Gees type voice sound? Because if it really is possible to get my soprano singing voice back, and actually have it sound female, I seriously think that I'd take this voice surgery over even SRS. I don't even know if you can understand how much this possibly would mean to me... it would mean that it really is possible to reverse the single most traumatizing experience of my entire life.
So please tell me, Jenny, is this really all true? I'm seriously tearing up just thinking that it might even be possible, after 12 years of having to live with accepting that the single greatest joy of my entire life was gone, and that it was never coming back.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LizMarie on October 25, 2013, 01:22:55 AM
Post by: LizMarie on October 25, 2013, 01:22:55 AM
Your results are nothing short of amazing. I am awed! Given my medical issues (paralyzed vocal cord) and already having gotten assurances from Yeson that they can still work with me, this gives me hope!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 25, 2013, 01:30:15 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 25, 2013, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: SarahR on October 24, 2013, 11:39:10 PM
I'm interested to see where you're at after 1 year post-op. You'll be easily hitting 1000Hz! :)
OH my god I hope you are right! :D :D :D
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 25, 2013, 01:08:50 AM
I'd give almost anything to be able to sing soprano again.
I know exactly what you mean, Carrie. I dream of the day. Even after this surgery I can't be exactly sure whether it will be possible for me, but I can sure as heck try. If you are already able to hit F5, I'd say you are in a VERY good place to sing alto at the very least. And, I've heard your voice multiple times. It's incredibly high without sounding strained at all. You're a very lucky gal. Especially for being less than a year in transition... you're voice = amazeballs :)
Quote from: LizMarie on October 25, 2013, 01:22:55 AM
Your results are nothing short of amazing. I am awed! Given my medical issues (paralyzed vocal cord) and already having gotten assurances from Yeson that they can still work with me, this gives me hope!
That is one of the best parts about Yeson!! Even more than VFS, they fix vocal issues of all kinds. They will fix you right on up! I had a severe asymmetry of the vocal cords and Dr. Kim corrected it as part of my VFS.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on October 25, 2013, 06:12:04 AM
Post by: Carlita on October 25, 2013, 06:12:04 AM
Wow, Abby ... that's amazing! Your voice now sounds completely natural and feminine. You and Jenny seem to have made a very similar shift, at about the same time after your operation. The voice just changes from one that could be heard as female, or as a feminized male voice (as you said: gender-neutral) to one that is unmistakably female.
It's great work by Yeson .. but great work by you, too!
It's great work by Yeson .. but great work by you, too!
Title: sarahb
Post by: sarahb on October 25, 2013, 06:14:45 AM
Post by: sarahb on October 25, 2013, 06:14:45 AM
So Jenny, do you realize just how much you may have affected the trans community in the best way possible? :-)
I mean, you may have started a revolution where VFS is now a common thing and one of the biggest dysphoria-causing problems is solveable (and more importantly, people know about it). I really do think having a passable, but even moreso a naturally feminine voice, affects how people see us and that sometimes affects whether they support our community or not. We could be on the verge of a major shift in public perception all because some girl named Jenny decided to document her results and jump head first into something that was previously almost unknown.
Anyways, I just want to thank you again for being brave enough to do this without much out there about it, and then sharing your experience with us. You're changing lives, including mine :-)
I mean, you may have started a revolution where VFS is now a common thing and one of the biggest dysphoria-causing problems is solveable (and more importantly, people know about it). I really do think having a passable, but even moreso a naturally feminine voice, affects how people see us and that sometimes affects whether they support our community or not. We could be on the verge of a major shift in public perception all because some girl named Jenny decided to document her results and jump head first into something that was previously almost unknown.
Anyways, I just want to thank you again for being brave enough to do this without much out there about it, and then sharing your experience with us. You're changing lives, including mine :-)
Title: Re: sarahb
Post by: Carlita on October 25, 2013, 08:36:19 AM
Post by: Carlita on October 25, 2013, 08:36:19 AM
Quote from: SarahR on October 25, 2013, 06:14:45 AM
So Jenny, do you realize just how much you may have affected the trans community in the best way possible? :-)
I mean, you may have started a revolution where VFS is now a common thing and one of the biggest dysphoria-causing problems is solveable (and more importantly, people know about it). I really do think having a passable, but even moreso a naturally feminine voice, affects how people see us and that sometimes affects whether they support our community or not. We could be on the verge of a major shift in public perception all because some girl named Jenny decided to document her results and jump head first into something that was previously almost unknown.
Anyways, I just want to thank you again for being brave enough to do this without much out there about it, and then sharing your experience with us. You're changing lives, including mine :-)
WELL SAID, SARAH!!! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 25, 2013, 08:49:48 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 25, 2013, 08:49:48 AM
Thank you so much guys! This is the first time I'm hearing my voice and hear a feminine one rather than a gender neutral one. Now I wouldn't have really minded if it stayed in the ~190hz gender neutral range since it still passed well enough but I am so so soooo happy that it's still going up. And if Jenny's any indication there's still more to come!
Speaking of which, Jenny that's AMAZING and I am so happy for you! I cannot wait until my voice is as healed as yours is! I'm already noticing a little bit of an increase in my upper range every day, I can now squeak out a D5 which is definitely higher than before but I would really like for it to go way up.
And Sarah, I completely agree!! I never considered voice surgeries because from the beginning of my transition everything I read said to stay away from them. If it weren't for finding Jenny's thread here I would have never had the guts to go through with it and I would still be struggling with my voice right now. So THANK YOU so much Jenny :)
Speaking of which, Jenny that's AMAZING and I am so happy for you! I cannot wait until my voice is as healed as yours is! I'm already noticing a little bit of an increase in my upper range every day, I can now squeak out a D5 which is definitely higher than before but I would really like for it to go way up.
And Sarah, I completely agree!! I never considered voice surgeries because from the beginning of my transition everything I read said to stay away from them. If it weren't for finding Jenny's thread here I would have never had the guts to go through with it and I would still be struggling with my voice right now. So THANK YOU so much Jenny :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on October 25, 2013, 09:10:28 AM
Post by: Shantel on October 25, 2013, 09:10:28 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 25, 2013, 08:49:48 AM
And Sarah, I completely agree!! I never considered voice surgeries because from the beginning of my transition everything I read said to stay away from them. If it weren't for finding Jenny's thread here I would have never had the guts to go through with it and I would still be struggling with my voice right now. So THANK YOU so much Jenny :)
I feel constrained to comment on this, Jenny has been a real blessing to this community, from the day she first showed up I had a gut feeling that she was a real winner! This gal is the most positive and selfless person ever, always eager to share herself with others rather than withhold information. These traits are so uncommon because we often tend to be excessively ego-centric as part of the business of our own transition. My hat's off to Jenny she's someone we can all appreciate, love and admire!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 25, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 25, 2013, 04:18:46 PM
That is a great recording Abby - One can hear that your vocal range is recovering and you use your pitch better. I guess some of that is from the vocal exercises. I wonder if some of them would also benefit us who have no voice surgery? So you surpassed the average pitch increase promoted (was it 75 Hz) by a bit now???
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 25, 2013, 07:14:44 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 25, 2013, 07:14:44 PM
OH my goodness this is too much too much! I am sorry I haven't had time to respond to this thread until now. When I read all of this this morning right before I hopped in the shower, I let out such a big sigh and had one of the best happy cries I've had in a long while. I just want to say thanks for appreciating me so much. Good lord I am almost in tears again!!
You have all really warmed my heart. Thank you all so much for the wonderful words.
Shan, hearing you say that especially means a lot because it brings me back to exactly a year ago when I was still just thinking about creating an account here- and the amount that has changed in that time is absolutely mind blowing to me. Thank you for reminding me of all those mysterious and wonderful times :D Your support was a big part of making all those times flow and gel smoothly together into so far the most happy and unforgettable year of my life.
Gush gush gush. Thanks again guys, it really means a lot to me :)
You have all really warmed my heart. Thank you all so much for the wonderful words.
Shan, hearing you say that especially means a lot because it brings me back to exactly a year ago when I was still just thinking about creating an account here- and the amount that has changed in that time is absolutely mind blowing to me. Thank you for reminding me of all those mysterious and wonderful times :D Your support was a big part of making all those times flow and gel smoothly together into so far the most happy and unforgettable year of my life.
Gush gush gush. Thanks again guys, it really means a lot to me :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 25, 2013, 09:55:45 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 25, 2013, 09:55:45 PM
G5 / 784hz
When it rains it pours... glorious herz!
When it rains it pours... glorious herz!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 27, 2013, 04:18:43 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 27, 2013, 04:18:43 AM
Jenny!
I hope you don't mind me asking...Is my voice really going to change? It's probably 3 weeks since I had it done. And my "voice" still feels like I have a sore throat. Occasionally I find myself talking...but only at a whisper.
Hope :)
I hope you don't mind me asking...Is my voice really going to change? It's probably 3 weeks since I had it done. And my "voice" still feels like I have a sore throat. Occasionally I find myself talking...but only at a whisper.
Hope :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: crowcrow223 on October 27, 2013, 06:11:39 AM
Post by: crowcrow223 on October 27, 2013, 06:11:39 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on October 27, 2013, 04:18:43 AM
Jenny!
I hope you don't mind me asking...Is my voice really going to change? It's probably 3 weeks since I had it done. And my "voice" still feels like I have a sore throat. Occasionally I find myself talking...but only at a whisper.
Hope :)
As far as I know You are under no circumstances allowed to talk for a period of up to 2 months?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 27, 2013, 10:52:51 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 27, 2013, 10:52:51 AM
For the first 7 days you aren't allowed to talk at all. After that you can say a few words a day for another few weeks. For me my voice was weak to the point that I ended up just resting my voice pretty much 100% of the time until about 4 weeks post op.
And Kiwi, I wouldn't worry about anything. It took a while for me for my voice quality to really start to come back. I'd say it wasn't until around 6 weeks post-op that my voice quality had returned enough to where I could have a long conversation without my voice quality dropping or my throat getting dry and scratchy.
And Kiwi, I wouldn't worry about anything. It took a while for me for my voice quality to really start to come back. I'd say it wasn't until around 6 weeks post-op that my voice quality had returned enough to where I could have a long conversation without my voice quality dropping or my throat getting dry and scratchy.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 11:53:28 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 27, 2013, 10:52:51 AM
For the first 7 days you aren't allowed to talk at all. After that you can say a few words a day for another few weeks. For me my voice was weak to the point that I ended up just resting my voice pretty much 100% of the time until about 4 weeks post op.
And Kiwi, I wouldn't worry about anything. It took a while for me for my voice quality to really start to come back. I'd say it wasn't until around 6 weeks post-op that my voice quality had returned enough to where I could have a long conversation without my voice quality dropping or my throat getting dry and scratchy.
Yeah pretty much the same for me. 1 month before I started talking at all, then 2 months before I had any conversation ability (voice still would give out somewhat after long conversations), and around 3 months before I had enough power in my voice not to have to lean in while talking to people with any background noise. It wasn't until 4 months that I really had much power to speak up and my voice was starting to feel more normal to me. It takes a while to heal!
Also Kiwi you had the botox injection, so that keeps your vocal cords loose for a good while. At 3 weeks post op you have absolutely nothing to worry about. The little 10 word recording I did way early on (at around 2-3 weeks) was with the computer mic right next to my mouth ;)
Also NO whispering!! It will delay your recovery bigtime from what I read all over the internets.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/health/08really.html
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 11:56:30 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 11:56:30 AM
Also I will add it wasn't until about 5 months that my yelling voice started to go up in pitch.
I wouldn't even recommend trying to yell until you are at least 3 months out. Don't force anything :)
I wouldn't even recommend trying to yell until you are at least 3 months out. Don't force anything :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 27, 2013, 03:37:29 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 27, 2013, 03:37:29 PM
I wonder one thing - why are they at Yesons doing the "official" pre/post op videos and recordings after 2 months? It seems to me that after 2 months the voice is barely healed enough to be used at all and still sounds weak and strained a bit. Would it not be better to also do a 4 or 6 months interview or recording? I have shown some of the recordings from Yeson (well actually only the ones of Maja, Jenny and Abby, I found the other ones not very good mainly because the people in them spoke weird pre- and postop) and they kind of told me I should stay away from it becuase the voices sound so weak and strained and I had to explain that this is still not healed... but could not really show them via the Yeson youtube channels how things sound like as a final result.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
I asked Jessie the same thing, and it's the same answer- very hard to follow up with people after so long.
It's crazy how much of a difference a little bit of background noise makes with a voice not fully healed. After about 3 months I finally no longer felt restrained in those scenarios. But for my recordings pre 3 months, there was absolutely no background noise so I was able to speak quietly and comfortably within my volume range at the time.
And as I've said before, I don't think any professional voice practitioner would EVER recommend that you have any sort of surgery to modify your vocal cords unless you had a defect that was not solvable through practice. Honestly unless you want to be given a weird look, convincing a voice therapist of its benefits would be a fruitless effort. Even when I met with a voice feminization therapist in LA after my surgery, I could sense that on the inside she was kind of scoffing at me or something like I had cheated or taken the easy road. She was still helpful in that one lesson, but it didn't feel like a good mesh for how much she charged and I decided to stop going. I'm not going to pay $200 a session to feel a strange vibe. Flash forward a month when I had another session with my gender therapist - her jaw hit the floor when she heard me and flooded me with questions about the surgery. Quite a different response!
It's crazy how much of a difference a little bit of background noise makes with a voice not fully healed. After about 3 months I finally no longer felt restrained in those scenarios. But for my recordings pre 3 months, there was absolutely no background noise so I was able to speak quietly and comfortably within my volume range at the time.
And as I've said before, I don't think any professional voice practitioner would EVER recommend that you have any sort of surgery to modify your vocal cords unless you had a defect that was not solvable through practice. Honestly unless you want to be given a weird look, convincing a voice therapist of its benefits would be a fruitless effort. Even when I met with a voice feminization therapist in LA after my surgery, I could sense that on the inside she was kind of scoffing at me or something like I had cheated or taken the easy road. She was still helpful in that one lesson, but it didn't feel like a good mesh for how much she charged and I decided to stop going. I'm not going to pay $200 a session to feel a strange vibe. Flash forward a month when I had another session with my gender therapist - her jaw hit the floor when she heard me and flooded me with questions about the surgery. Quite a different response!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 04:30:31 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 04:30:31 PM
I guess all I'm saying is that only you yourself can decide whether this surgery is right for you. Seeking approval from voice practitioners is likely going to get you nowhere no matter how many good examples you can present to them. They might even go so far as to turn you off from the idea thinking they are protecting you.
In my case I had told my gender therapist beforehand about Yeson and she asked me not to do it. Well, obviously I did it anyway, and now she sees what a huge benefit for me it's been across the board.
In my case I had told my gender therapist beforehand about Yeson and she asked me not to do it. Well, obviously I did it anyway, and now she sees what a huge benefit for me it's been across the board.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 27, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 27, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
Yes I can imagine that a voice therapistwould not ever want to suggest a surgery or approve of it. A voice clinic might consider it at least an option though for them it would probably also be a last resort effort. In that case I was trying to get information again on the Berlin surgeon via german language TG groups and I am starting to get the "usual" comments about how I should try voice training first (and then they give all those nice recordings how great their voices are now after training - and it really can be totally great, it seems) and that all voice surgery is leading to weak or constrained voices and that - and if I try to show them that it can be good results, saldy the Yeson recordings are too short post op to really be convincing. I got one contact who will go to Berlin soon though, so thats an upside - chance to get a report of a first hand experience.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige on October 27, 2013, 09:29:02 PM
Post by: Paige on October 27, 2013, 09:29:02 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 27, 2013, 04:30:31 PM
I guess all I'm saying is that only you yourself can decide whether this surgery is right for you. Seeking approval from voice practitioners is likely going to get you nowhere no matter how many good examples you can present to them. They might even go so far as to turn you off from the idea thinking they are protecting you.
In my case I had told my gender therapist beforehand about Yeson and she asked me not to do it. Well, obviously I did it anyway, and now she sees what a huge benefit for me it's been across the board.
I guess this is all to be expected, for years voice surgery has had such a bad name, it's going to take some time for it to turn around. I would also guess that there's a prejudice against foreign medical procedures that will need to be overcome. With that said I bet more and more will follow Jenny and Abby, and eventually people will start to notice. Perhaps some voice surgeons in North America will figure out that this is the way to do it and start doing the procedure here?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 27, 2013, 09:46:22 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 27, 2013, 09:46:22 PM
So, does full voice volume and power eventually come back with the Yeson procedure? Or is the voice always a bit quieter? I guess I hadn't really thought about the full connotations of the weakened volume until those last few posts.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige on October 27, 2013, 10:07:32 PM
Post by: Paige on October 27, 2013, 10:07:32 PM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 27, 2013, 09:46:22 PM
So, does full voice volume and power eventually come back with the Yeson procedure? Or is the voice always a bit quieter? I guess I hadn't really thought about the full connotations of the weakened volume until those last few posts.
This actually reminds me of a question that popped into my head the other day. Can you scream and if not will you be able to in the future without damaging anything?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 27, 2013, 11:52:28 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 27, 2013, 11:52:28 PM
Quote from: Paige on October 27, 2013, 10:07:32 PM
This actually reminds me of a question that popped into my head the other day. Can you scream and if not will you be able to in the future without damaging anything?
Yes, you can scream when your voice is healed to a certain point but it's stressful so like singing I plan on avoiding it until I'm at least 6 months post-op.
As for the volume thing, that actually isn't an issue at all with my voice. I don't think it's any quieter than my voice was pre-op and I can talk loudly without any issue. I actually speak at a higher pitch when I speak louder too.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 12:19:13 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 12:19:13 AM
Quote from: Paige on October 27, 2013, 09:29:02 PM
Perhaps some voice surgeons in North America will figure out that this is the way to do it and start doing the procedure here?
For the benefit of others, I hope you are right! I have a feeling that Yeson will be the best for a while though. They already have a huge headstart on performing it and perfecting it.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 27, 2013, 09:46:22 PM
So, does full voice volume and power eventually come back with the Yeson procedure? Or is the voice always a bit quieter? I guess I hadn't really thought about the full connotations of the weakened volume until those last few posts.
As of now it feels to me like my voice is full power. At higher frequencies, I feel like I have more power than I used to- at the very least the same. It still seems to be improving every week- I'm still not done recovering yet.
Quote from: Paige on October 27, 2013, 10:07:32 PM
This actually reminds me of a question that popped into my head the other day. Can you scream and if not will you be able to in the future without damaging anything?
Yes I have screamed many times. And while I may not be pouring the full brunt of my airways into it, it is very loud. I lead bikerides around Los Angeles and have to scream directions loud enough for people to know where and when to turn. So far I have had absolutely no problem projecting my voice even over a loud soundsystem that sits right behind me :)
A little update on my recovery...
I think this past week has been one of the biggest so far. There is a new range or register coming in that is becoming much more easy to access. I did a little research on it and it looks like it's known as the "whistle" register and is also known as the flageolet register. Earlier in the thread I was referring to it as the "squeak" register, lol. However now I am able to take it down to lower pitches and it feels very much like head voice used to as a male. As I go up, it becomes bright and edgy. The whistle register is an extension of head register, they are intertwined.
Tonight I was once again able to hit a G5 / 784hz doing my down/up/down sirens. I am VERY happy about this!!! Once I'm done with my exercises is when I try out that new register. It seems to get better almost with every day. Today, the bottom range of the upper register ranged from E5 all the way up to... G6 / 1,568hz! I actually sang a scale going all the way up to G6 and down with full control staying in that register. Anything below E5 / 660hz and it begins to break up. I think it's such a good sign of things to come from this surgery!!! I am becoming more and more confident that after another 6 or so months of recovery I will be able to sing alto. After 2 years I have almost no doubt!
Well that's about it, I hope my tales of recovery are helpful to those of you thinking about having this surgery. So far it looks like every single one of the claims they make are turning out to be true for me.
Also where are you, kathyp?? I've been so eager to here how your recovery is going!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 12:32:43 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 12:32:43 AM
I have to share something...apart from my teeth ending up in my stomach and wearing an orange sized bruise on my shoulder...my support person, a kindred spirit of some 40 years, came with me. Her job was to sit back and enjoy the ride and be my voice for me. She didn't. I don't know why, I really don't. I know she hated Seoul and the way people stared at us. She was homesick (so was I) but in spite of her all-expenses paid trip my friend of 40 years attempted to kill herself in the Palace Grounds in Seoul. I was taking my medication with a drink at the tourist shop when she walked off. Imagine the scenario if you can. I wasn't too concerned so carried on to the display of the King and his guards, fully expecting to see her in the crowd of thousands. After 4 hours and looking for her, I had no choice but to go to the information centre and between writing on a pad and crying, trying to explain my friend had disappeared.
Four hours later the police and palace security came and told me they thought they had found her. They asked me to come with them as she was hysterical and wouldn't let anyone near her.
Oh Shiiiit!.
Before this happened I was pleading with her not to make me talk. But she seemed fascinated with what had happened to me and yes there was some psychiatric stuff going on obviously.
She had confided in me about how her partner of 25 years had been abusing her. She is 64, and will never get those years back. She has Hep C too so she knows the chances of getting procedures are pretty unlikely.
Jessie asked her if she would like to have her Adam's Apple (Shaved I suppose) and this would cost $2500 U.S. I think she just came out and asked her. And my friend doesn't do anything to hide it or wear clothes to hide how emaciated she has become.
She had a sex change (many years ago) and ended up with this guy...In spite of me seeing her every day I never knew the extent of what he was doing to her, but I did know they had been able to own three homes because she was on a benefit. In our country you aren't allowed to be on a benefit if you have a partner. Because of her benefit she never changed her legal status from male to female. I was quite shocked...
I have learned a lot from my journey to Chonburi, from many of the ladies here, and from my friends situation.
We're all different.
My choices aren't necessarily going to be yours. And I have no right to expect anyone else to make the choices I have.
Some people like their Adam's Apples. They like to look different.
She performed in shows and was very good at it.
Her performance in Seoul was a mix of her psychiatric issues and shame & jealousy. Shame because she tried to kill herself (and planned it before we left!) and I have photographed it - I was terrified. Suddenly I had to mother her, and there was no support for me. I was also very worried that Korean mental health would get hold of her and how would I get her released. It was a nightmare.
We flew home 1st Class (got upgraded) and it was on the long journey where she ate everything and behaved normally that I realized my friend really had died in Seoul.
Her partner (and 2 other men) were there to chaperone her from the airport and she never said goodbye.
So I was worried that maybe I had done damage to my voice, because I hadn't been able to rest it till I got home, not really.
Hopefully I am wrong. She did have me laughing in Seoul. Without a voice...you know, you can do it through your neck. And I had a very high pitched laugh.
My throat no longer feels like sandpaper and it is getting a lot of rest (no stress)
Maybe I am wrong, but it did seem a little like the only way I could destroy the procedure would be if I yelled and tore the sutures (I have 2) I have never done that.
I don't feel good sharing this but it's true.
Please ladies, don't accept 2nd best in a relationship, you only have the one life and you deserve better. My friends partner used her for her benefit (and helped her to commit benefit fraud) it's a sad story of abuse, and we all need to be extra careful to ensure we don't let people take advantage of us because of our vulnerability. Because of who we are...
Four hours later the police and palace security came and told me they thought they had found her. They asked me to come with them as she was hysterical and wouldn't let anyone near her.
Oh Shiiiit!.
Before this happened I was pleading with her not to make me talk. But she seemed fascinated with what had happened to me and yes there was some psychiatric stuff going on obviously.
She had confided in me about how her partner of 25 years had been abusing her. She is 64, and will never get those years back. She has Hep C too so she knows the chances of getting procedures are pretty unlikely.
Jessie asked her if she would like to have her Adam's Apple (Shaved I suppose) and this would cost $2500 U.S. I think she just came out and asked her. And my friend doesn't do anything to hide it or wear clothes to hide how emaciated she has become.
She had a sex change (many years ago) and ended up with this guy...In spite of me seeing her every day I never knew the extent of what he was doing to her, but I did know they had been able to own three homes because she was on a benefit. In our country you aren't allowed to be on a benefit if you have a partner. Because of her benefit she never changed her legal status from male to female. I was quite shocked...
I have learned a lot from my journey to Chonburi, from many of the ladies here, and from my friends situation.
We're all different.
My choices aren't necessarily going to be yours. And I have no right to expect anyone else to make the choices I have.
Some people like their Adam's Apples. They like to look different.
She performed in shows and was very good at it.
Her performance in Seoul was a mix of her psychiatric issues and shame & jealousy. Shame because she tried to kill herself (and planned it before we left!) and I have photographed it - I was terrified. Suddenly I had to mother her, and there was no support for me. I was also very worried that Korean mental health would get hold of her and how would I get her released. It was a nightmare.
We flew home 1st Class (got upgraded) and it was on the long journey where she ate everything and behaved normally that I realized my friend really had died in Seoul.
Her partner (and 2 other men) were there to chaperone her from the airport and she never said goodbye.
So I was worried that maybe I had done damage to my voice, because I hadn't been able to rest it till I got home, not really.
Hopefully I am wrong. She did have me laughing in Seoul. Without a voice...you know, you can do it through your neck. And I had a very high pitched laugh.
My throat no longer feels like sandpaper and it is getting a lot of rest (no stress)
Maybe I am wrong, but it did seem a little like the only way I could destroy the procedure would be if I yelled and tore the sutures (I have 2) I have never done that.
I don't feel good sharing this but it's true.
Please ladies, don't accept 2nd best in a relationship, you only have the one life and you deserve better. My friends partner used her for her benefit (and helped her to commit benefit fraud) it's a sad story of abuse, and we all need to be extra careful to ensure we don't let people take advantage of us because of our vulnerability. Because of who we are...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 01:51:22 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 01:51:22 AM
Wooooooowwwww Kiwi that is ssssoooooo intense. I had no idea. I can't even imagine what that would be like. I would be freaked out of my mind especially being in a foreign country where I don't know the language and cannot even talk! Agh. I'm so sorry to hear about that :(
When you say you weren't able to rest it until you got home, do you mean that you were talking or whispering a lot while in Seoul? I sincerely hope not, that cannot be good. Either way if you had your 1 week post op check up and Dr. Kim said you were healing well, I'm sure you'll be fine. It's hugely important not to talk or whisper at all within the first week though :o
Lady you need to make sure to take it easy on that voice! Rest rest rest water water water!
So sorry to hear about your friend and your trip, too. I seriously cannot even imagine.
When you say you weren't able to rest it until you got home, do you mean that you were talking or whispering a lot while in Seoul? I sincerely hope not, that cannot be good. Either way if you had your 1 week post op check up and Dr. Kim said you were healing well, I'm sure you'll be fine. It's hugely important not to talk or whisper at all within the first week though :o
Lady you need to make sure to take it easy on that voice! Rest rest rest water water water!
So sorry to hear about your friend and your trip, too. I seriously cannot even imagine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 28, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
Post by: sarahb on October 28, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
Kiwi, that's such a tragic story. I'm sorry your friend put you through that (and planned it beforehand!?!) when she knew you wouldn't be able to talk and needed support yourself. I just hope that now that you have the time you need to fully rest your voice that you won't have any problems achieving the voice you want! As Jenny said, lots of water and lots of rest!
I do hope your friend realizes that she needs to be a little more selfish and not accept a life of abuse just to be with someone. I'm glad you shared this story so that maybe it'll help someone else who may be going through a similar situation.
I do hope your friend realizes that she needs to be a little more selfish and not accept a life of abuse just to be with someone. I'm glad you shared this story so that maybe it'll help someone else who may be going through a similar situation.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 01:14:50 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 01:14:50 PM
Jenny - Wow it's crazy the improvement you've been seeing lately! It's like you've uncovered this second wind it's so exciting!
Kiwi, I am so sorry about the whole experience! I honestly don't know how you kept yourself together through it all - I know I wouldn't have been able to. It's good that your throat doesn't feel scratchy anymore and I hope that now you are able to let your voice heal a bit better.
Alright so I have exactly two audio clips of my "feminine" voice prior to surgery.
The first recording was me reading a little paragraph from the back of a book and the pitch was at about 187hz. My old female voice was super nasally but it was the only way for me to keep my pitch up enough. The voice didn't pass at all and that was where I was at after like 4 months of voice therapy. So I re-recorded it this morning. I tried my best to keep it at around 187hz which at this point requires me to actively focus on lowering my pitch - that's why it's much quieter. But anyway you can hear how much of a difference there is between the voices even though they are pretty much at the same pitch. I also recorded it at my normal speaking voice as of today which came in at 208hz.
All three of the recordings can be heard in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/before-after-audrey-hepburn
And the second recording was me at Yeson. I was asked to read the rainbow passage at an elevated pitch. For me, this was about 172hz. That was the highest I could comfortably speak it and needless to say it wasn't very feminine. So again I re-recorded it this morning, trying to match 172hz. It was really hard, the best I could do was like 175hz. I also did a recording of me reading it normally which came in at about 205hz.
You can here all of those in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/rainbow-passage-before-and
Kiwi, I am so sorry about the whole experience! I honestly don't know how you kept yourself together through it all - I know I wouldn't have been able to. It's good that your throat doesn't feel scratchy anymore and I hope that now you are able to let your voice heal a bit better.
Alright so I have exactly two audio clips of my "feminine" voice prior to surgery.
The first recording was me reading a little paragraph from the back of a book and the pitch was at about 187hz. My old female voice was super nasally but it was the only way for me to keep my pitch up enough. The voice didn't pass at all and that was where I was at after like 4 months of voice therapy. So I re-recorded it this morning. I tried my best to keep it at around 187hz which at this point requires me to actively focus on lowering my pitch - that's why it's much quieter. But anyway you can hear how much of a difference there is between the voices even though they are pretty much at the same pitch. I also recorded it at my normal speaking voice as of today which came in at 208hz.
All three of the recordings can be heard in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/before-after-audrey-hepburn
And the second recording was me at Yeson. I was asked to read the rainbow passage at an elevated pitch. For me, this was about 172hz. That was the highest I could comfortably speak it and needless to say it wasn't very feminine. So again I re-recorded it this morning, trying to match 172hz. It was really hard, the best I could do was like 175hz. I also did a recording of me reading it normally which came in at about 205hz.
You can here all of those in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/rainbow-passage-before-and
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
Sounding so great Abby!
Seems like you are taking off on the recovery, I bet if we could see a graph you'd be surpassing me when I was at your length of post-op time :)
Seems like you are taking off on the recovery, I bet if we could see a graph you'd be surpassing me when I was at your length of post-op time :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 28, 2013, 03:07:48 PM
Post by: Carrie Liz on October 28, 2013, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 01:14:50 PM
Jenny - Wow it's crazy the improvement you've been seeing lately! It's like you've uncovered this second wind it's so exciting!
Kiwi, I am so sorry about the whole experience! I honestly don't know how you kept yourself together through it all - I know I wouldn't have been able to. It's good that your throat doesn't feel scratchy anymore and I hope that now you are able to let your voice heal a bit better.
Alright so I have exactly two audio clips of my "feminine" voice prior to surgery.
The first recording was me reading a little paragraph from the back of a book and the pitch was at about 187hz. My old female voice was super nasally but it was the only way for me to keep my pitch up enough. The voice didn't pass at all and that was where I was at after like 4 months of voice therapy. So I re-recorded it this morning. I tried my best to keep it at around 187hz which at this point requires me to actively focus on lowering my pitch - that's why it's much quieter. But anyway you can hear how much of a difference there is between the voices even though they are pretty much at the same pitch. I also recorded it at my normal speaking voice as of today which came in at 208hz.
All three of the recordings can be heard in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/before-after-audrey-hepburn
And the second recording was me at Yeson. I was asked to read the rainbow passage at an elevated pitch. For me, this was about 172hz. That was the highest I could comfortably speak it and needless to say it wasn't very feminine. So again I re-recorded it this morning, trying to match 172hz. It was really hard, the best I could do was like 175hz. I also did a recording of me reading it normally which came in at about 205hz.
You can here all of those in a row here: https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/rainbow-passage-before-and
Sheesh... for a voice surgery that supposedly doesn't alter your resonance, it sure does still make a HUGE difference in the fundamental tone of one's voice. It's like all of the deeper throaty growls and the maleish vocal fry vanish, and it sounds female even when you're doing them.
Thanks, Abby. I was seriously hoping that a recording like that would surface somewhere, so that I could compare the "girl voice" pre-op versus post-op. Pretty darned good difference, if you ask me. (Gets more and more tempted to start saving money for this...)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 03:28:56 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 03:28:56 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
Sounding so great Abby!
Seems like you are taking off on the recovery, I bet if we could see a graph you'd be surpassing me when I was at your length of post-op time :)
Thanks! :)
I'm not really sure where the recent jump is coming from. I was originally thinking it was the vocal exercises and getting more used to my voice and not the voice really healing all that much. But when I did these recordings this morning and realized how difficult it was to talk at 170hz it made me think that maybe physiologically there have been some changes. It wasn't too long ago where 170hz was my normal speaking voice.
You know everyone's bodies heal so differently so I'm wondering if maybe you and I are sort of at the same stage in the healing process since you've seen a pretty big bump recently too. I've seen such a big increase from my normal speaking voice that I really don't think there's much more room for me to go up.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 28, 2013, 03:07:48 PM
Sheesh... for a voice surgery that supposedly doesn't alter your resonance, it sure does still make a HUGE difference in the fundamental tone of one's voice. It's like all of the deeper throaty growls and the maleish vocal fry vanish, and it sounds female even when you're doing them.
Thanks, Abby. I was seriously hoping that a recording like that would surface somewhere, so that I could compare the "girl voice" pre-op versus post-op. Pretty darned good difference, if you ask me. (Gets more and more tempted to start saving money for this...)
It really has made a difference in my resonance...part of the surgery is also thinning the vocal folds if I'm remembering correctly (Jenny can confirm). That would explain some of the change in the resonance even though size-wise all the resonating chambers haven't changed. But a lot of it could also be a psychological thing. Like having a more feminine pitch might make me subconsciously work on the resonance more. I obviously can't say for sure how much of it may be psychological, but what I do know is that my voice is completely effortless which is all that really matters to me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 03:42:32 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 03:42:32 PM
Just a couple of questions ladies...
Are you still taking the pills (for after botox wears off - 1 a night - he has given me 90) When did you start them? I have been told to after 3 months when the botox "wears off"
You all talk as if you know your voice range in Hz. I haven't got a clue, but do know before it was 146.40 (Mean Frequency Yeson called it) and when did you start the voice exercises they gave us?
Sorry for all the questions but I never received the email they promised me (probably glad to see the end of me LOL)
Are you still taking the pills (for after botox wears off - 1 a night - he has given me 90) When did you start them? I have been told to after 3 months when the botox "wears off"
You all talk as if you know your voice range in Hz. I haven't got a clue, but do know before it was 146.40 (Mean Frequency Yeson called it) and when did you start the voice exercises they gave us?
Sorry for all the questions but I never received the email they promised me (probably glad to see the end of me LOL)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 03:53:17 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 03:53:17 PM
Wait did they not give you your patient medical record before you left? They gave me a folder with a letter from the surgeon, the results of all my tests, after-care instructions, and even a little USB thingy with video of my vocal folds pre-op.
If you didn't get that let me know and I can scan mine - it has all the information about your voice recovery.
I didn't have botox and I was instructed to take the medication (Klonopin - who knew that would somehow help your voice?) starting from one week from my surgery date. I'm still taking it - I was given a four month supply of it.
You can start the voice exercises at around 8 weeks post-op.
If you didn't get that let me know and I can scan mine - it has all the information about your voice recovery.
I didn't have botox and I was instructed to take the medication (Klonopin - who knew that would somehow help your voice?) starting from one week from my surgery date. I'm still taking it - I was given a four month supply of it.
You can start the voice exercises at around 8 weeks post-op.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 04:02:11 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 04:02:11 PM
Oh, yes they did...!
But to someone like me all that info is a bit mind boggling.
Except this bit...
Medical Certificate:
3. Past History
SRS (+) FFS (+)
4. Clinical Findings
Her chief complaints were low and deep voice. He has had intermittent voice break, however she showed normal speech rhythm (etc)
Now, if you were me. What part of that portion of the medical certificate would you be happy with?
But to someone like me all that info is a bit mind boggling.
Except this bit...
Medical Certificate:
3. Past History
SRS (+) FFS (+)
4. Clinical Findings
Her chief complaints were low and deep voice. He has had intermittent voice break, however she showed normal speech rhythm (etc)
Now, if you were me. What part of that portion of the medical certificate would you be happy with?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 04:11:44 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 04:11:44 PM
In your little folder did you get two separate instruction sheets?
One should be titled "Required Instructions after Voice Feminization Surgery" and it says:
1. For the prevention of complication and sanitary recovery of surgical region, you should not be using your voice for 7 days. Try to limit using your voice for up to 3 weeks.
2. Avoid using loud voice and whispering for up to 2 months after the operation.
3. Singing is allowed 2 to 6 months after the operation.
4. Avoid caffeinated drinks such as coffee, tea, soda, and spicy food for approximately 4 to 8 weeks. Avoid greasy and salty foods.
5. You must quit smoking and drinking for at least 3 months because any congestion or damage on the surgical area may occur.
6. Avoid lifting any heavy items and having weight training for up to 3 weeks after the surgery. Avoid swimming, playing golf or tennis, rock climbing, etc. Jogging and walking are allowed.
7. Be careful not to catch a cold.
8. Avoid clearing you throat and when coughing, just open up your mouth wide and let the air go out without making any sound.
9. Drink lots of water, about 8 cups per day.
10. Before taking any medication, see your medical specialist and receive a consultation.
They also gave me a sheet titled "Required Instructions after Botox Injection Treatment". It says:
1. You should limit your conversations and limit your voice for three weeks during the hoarseness period.
2. You may have pains or discomfort in your throat for 2-7 days.
3. Do not drink alcohol. If you drink, hoarseness will occur.
4. When you drink water, lightly bow your head down and slowly swallow water so that it wouldn't get your throat stuffy.
One should be titled "Required Instructions after Voice Feminization Surgery" and it says:
1. For the prevention of complication and sanitary recovery of surgical region, you should not be using your voice for 7 days. Try to limit using your voice for up to 3 weeks.
2. Avoid using loud voice and whispering for up to 2 months after the operation.
3. Singing is allowed 2 to 6 months after the operation.
4. Avoid caffeinated drinks such as coffee, tea, soda, and spicy food for approximately 4 to 8 weeks. Avoid greasy and salty foods.
5. You must quit smoking and drinking for at least 3 months because any congestion or damage on the surgical area may occur.
6. Avoid lifting any heavy items and having weight training for up to 3 weeks after the surgery. Avoid swimming, playing golf or tennis, rock climbing, etc. Jogging and walking are allowed.
7. Be careful not to catch a cold.
8. Avoid clearing you throat and when coughing, just open up your mouth wide and let the air go out without making any sound.
9. Drink lots of water, about 8 cups per day.
10. Before taking any medication, see your medical specialist and receive a consultation.
They also gave me a sheet titled "Required Instructions after Botox Injection Treatment". It says:
1. You should limit your conversations and limit your voice for three weeks during the hoarseness period.
2. You may have pains or discomfort in your throat for 2-7 days.
3. Do not drink alcohol. If you drink, hoarseness will occur.
4. When you drink water, lightly bow your head down and slowly swallow water so that it wouldn't get your throat stuffy.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 04:17:20 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 28, 2013, 04:17:20 PM
Yes, yes...I got all those.
However, have not had any issues with swallowing water (that's after the botox I think) I just drink it normally. :)
However, have not had any issues with swallowing water (that's after the botox I think) I just drink it normally. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 28, 2013, 07:26:11 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 28, 2013, 07:26:11 PM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 28, 2013, 03:07:48 PMYes I was waiting for such a recording as well. It is really a huge difference - how? IDK. I totally am amazed evenif I think the after-recordings seem to be more muffled (bad mic? voice not yet healed enough?). I will keep that monthly money transfer going to my savings account. Which is nuts because I could have it on insurance if I would do it inland but I know if I cannot fix my voice otherwise, I want to go to a place that I feel is doing good work and not stupid German doctors who dont even show their patients recordings during consultation or reply to emails asking about infos
Sheesh... for a voice surgery that supposedly doesn't alter your resonance, it sure does still make a HUGE difference in the fundamental tone of one's voice. It's like all of the deeper throaty growls and the maleish vocal fry vanish, and it sounds female even when you're doing them.
Thanks, Abby. I was seriously hoping that a recording like that would surface somewhere, so that I could compare the "girl voice" pre-op versus post-op. Pretty darned good difference, if you ask me. (Gets more and more tempted to start saving money for this...)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on October 28, 2013, 08:33:42 PM
Post by: sarahb on October 28, 2013, 08:33:42 PM
Amazing difference Abby! Wow, just amazing! It's crazy how much it changes week after week during the first few months. It's like a different voice every time you post a new recording...getting higher and higher and more natural as time goes on.
So you don't even have to try or think about it with those last recordings? It just comes out that way as you speak, with no effort? Sheesh, I'm on cloud nine right now thinking that in a few weeks I'll be just starting to be able to say a couple words and will have a voice like yours!
So you don't even have to try or think about it with those last recordings? It just comes out that way as you speak, with no effort? Sheesh, I'm on cloud nine right now thinking that in a few weeks I'll be just starting to be able to say a couple words and will have a voice like yours!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 08:46:25 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 08:46:25 PM
Quote from: SarahR on October 28, 2013, 08:33:42 PM
Amazing difference Abby! Wow, just amazing! It's crazy how much it changes week after week during the first few months. It's like a different voice every time you post a new recording...getting higher and higher and more natural as time goes on.
So you don't even have to try or think about it with those last recordings? It just comes out that way as you speak, with no effort? Sheesh, I'm on cloud nine right now thinking that in a few weeks I'll be just starting to be able to say a couple words and will have a voice like yours!
Thank you :) And nope, I'm not trying at all in those recordings. When I do try to raise my pitch it ends up being like 220-225hz.
And I bet you're getting so excited! Ahhh I remember being in your shoes just a few months ago and can't believe how far my voice has come since then. Before you know it you'll be a few months post-op yourself. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 09:26:12 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 28, 2013, 09:26:12 PM
Yes yes yes!! Very excited for you Sarah!!! It's going to be so awesome!
Can I just say how amazing it is to see all of you having this surgery?! I'm so STOKED about it!!!
My rainbow readings these days are coming out at 223hz with no effort. Actually to me, it feels slightly low. When I concentrate on it a little, I'm getting exactly 245hz every time. With effort going DOWN, I am now at 213hz. I never thought in a million years that would feel low.
Abby, I think you and I are indeed on a similar track right now. I can't believe it, but today I went up yet another semitone doing the voice exercises. That puts me at G#5 / 830hz :D :D
Can I just say how amazing it is to see all of you having this surgery?! I'm so STOKED about it!!!
My rainbow readings these days are coming out at 223hz with no effort. Actually to me, it feels slightly low. When I concentrate on it a little, I'm getting exactly 245hz every time. With effort going DOWN, I am now at 213hz. I never thought in a million years that would feel low.
Abby, I think you and I are indeed on a similar track right now. I can't believe it, but today I went up yet another semitone doing the voice exercises. That puts me at G#5 / 830hz :D :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 29, 2013, 06:40:55 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 29, 2013, 06:40:55 AM
Oh this sounds all too good to be real...
What I found interesting was that the recordings with the "femme voice" before and the regular or lowered voice after are sounding different but not THAT different. What I mean is that if you regularly do the "femme voice" before and then after the surgery you just relax more and end up with a similar pitch that later goes up, thats perfect in terms of people slowly getting used to that change and maybe not ask too much. A friend of us did a voice change procedure however and she was really high pitched afterwards immediately. As she never did a "femme voice" before, it was quite a huge discontinuity there.
So I guess now what remains to be seen is how you all will do with volume and fullness long term (no putting the mic right next to the mouth anymore to cheat ;) LOL ).
Oh and just in case we did not say that enough: MANY THANKS to you far all these reports. :laugh:
Quote from: abbyt89 on October 28, 2013, 08:46:25 PMOh that is so cool. No effort at all? Sheesh. Thinking that I could if I go there maybe get rid of this effort that I basically thought about every single time I opened my mouth in the past 15 years - can you imagine what weight would be lifted off me if this would really work for me like that? I dont know if it will or can, but I am getting my hopes up when I read all of this.
Thank you :) And nope, I'm not trying at all in those recordings. When I do try to raise my pitch it ends up being like 220-225hz.
What I found interesting was that the recordings with the "femme voice" before and the regular or lowered voice after are sounding different but not THAT different. What I mean is that if you regularly do the "femme voice" before and then after the surgery you just relax more and end up with a similar pitch that later goes up, thats perfect in terms of people slowly getting used to that change and maybe not ask too much. A friend of us did a voice change procedure however and she was really high pitched afterwards immediately. As she never did a "femme voice" before, it was quite a huge discontinuity there.
So I guess now what remains to be seen is how you all will do with volume and fullness long term (no putting the mic right next to the mouth anymore to cheat ;) LOL ).
Oh and just in case we did not say that enough: MANY THANKS to you far all these reports. :laugh:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kaylee on October 29, 2013, 07:27:33 AM
Post by: Kaylee on October 29, 2013, 07:27:33 AM
I'm seriously considering having this done at some point in the near future (as soon as I can save the funds basically), all the results I've heard seem amazing!!!
I've worked out so far that I'll need about £5000-£5500 for surgery and flights depending on the FX rate at the time. It shouldn't take too long to scrape together (yipee for Christmas bonuses, though I may need to sell some of my massive collection of Transformers :().
I was wondering what expenses are like once over in Seoul?
Are hotels expensive, does it cost much to get about?
Do you need any sort of follow up appointment while/after healing?
I've seen that some people have a botox injection after, what does this do?
Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but I don't have the time to read through 35+ pages of a thread!
I've worked out so far that I'll need about £5000-£5500 for surgery and flights depending on the FX rate at the time. It shouldn't take too long to scrape together (yipee for Christmas bonuses, though I may need to sell some of my massive collection of Transformers :().
I was wondering what expenses are like once over in Seoul?
Are hotels expensive, does it cost much to get about?
Do you need any sort of follow up appointment while/after healing?
I've seen that some people have a botox injection after, what does this do?
Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but I don't have the time to read through 35+ pages of a thread!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 29, 2013, 09:05:58 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 29, 2013, 09:05:58 AM
Hehe, Kaylee, so they "infected" you , too. Just saying, its totally worth reading all these pages because they also contain the recovery stories and some additonal questions. And really - if you spend 5000 on this, whats a few hours of reading ;) - plus I just bookmark the thread to look for the good hotels and practical tipps in it again if I end up needing them. As I read it total expenses with surgery, hotel and flight and all are like $10000-$12000. I guess one should see it as a vacation as well - sightseeing and all that. As long as it is not too painful in the first days one might actually see something interesting. I wonder if it even pays off to fly in the area, do a vacation nearby and combine that, but I guess these expenses would be just too much. I think I could muster up the money in about 1.5-2 years, maybe sooner if I accept taking up a loan... thats rather ok. I think I will know if I need or want this in a few months after trying voice rehab training again, by then I would be at about 1/3 or so of the savings. And I bet it takes some waiting before one can get an appointment as well? Well - thinking of it, I may get very impatient if I make the decision and then have to wait another year ;) - but I need to plan this well. I cannot have this as long as I am doing lectures. So there will be very limited timeframes where I can do this as I probably cannot work 100% for at least 3 months, more like 4-5 months after it since parts of the work include to talk to students in a lecture room for an hour or so. I guess this is advisable only like 4 months post op... maybe longer? It needs the ability to speak for like 90 minutes at a decent volume. When do you think this is possible for sure, Jenny/Abby?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 29, 2013, 03:25:50 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on October 29, 2013, 03:25:50 PM
Quote from: Kaylee on October 29, 2013, 07:27:33 AM
I'm seriously considering having this done at some point in the near future (as soon as I can save the funds basically), all the results I've heard seem amazing!!!
I was wondering what expenses are like once over in Seoul?
Are hotels expensive, does it cost much to get about?
Do you need any sort of follow up appointment while/after healing?
I've seen that some people have a botox injection after, what does this do?
Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but I don't have the time to read through 35+ pages of a thread!
Before we left I checked out the hotels (Seoul is huge) and we settled on an apartment through Airbnb - just google it. An apartment, but in our case they had a building with many different apartments/choices. For us, this was the most affordable at around $85 N.Z. per night. You need to be there for a minimum of 9 Days but really you should stay 2 weeks. There is a follow up with Dr Kim 7 days later. 1 day to arrive, the following day for tests, the following surgery, and then the following 7 days for follow up.
The botox injection is given after you've had surgery at the follow-up point, if your going to have it. This is an additional $400 U.S. I understand it is used for those of us who have tremor in our vocal chords - you'll know after he does the voice examinations on day 2. The day after you arrive.
Taxis are wildly cheap - only 10% of the cost of what they are here. But only take the ORANGE cabs. The others (there are millions) don't have the same reputation, and all the orange cabs have a translation service. We never spent more than $14 and that was for a 40 minute taxi fare!
As I think you are in pounds, you could budget for no more than $70 pounds max, per day. And that's eating out 2 or 3 times a day, and I'm not talking Pizza Hut, but nice food, or at least seemingly up-market food outlets/restaraunts. In saying that I'm quoting for two people.
We stayed in Gangnam. It takes maybe 10 minutes by taxi to get to Yeson from there, and you could walk it in 13 minutes. Be prepared to be stared at and stared through, because you are not Korean.
Seoul is huge - the biggest city I have ever been in, so you do need to have a little bit of inner compass.
I don't smoke but cigarettes are $2.70 a packet of 20. Here they are $20
But a two litre bottle of water is $15!
There is heaps to do in Seoul. Museums, Palaces, River Cruises, Going to the DMZ (but warning - choose a reputable tour, some are not and will rip you off) but, you should go!
Nice if you could take someone with you...very few people speak english. This was our biggest barrier!
But for what the surgery does, it's a short time span for such a huge result.
Go for it!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on October 30, 2013, 10:01:39 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on October 30, 2013, 10:01:39 AM
Quote from: Kaylee on October 29, 2013, 07:27:33 AM
I'm seriously considering having this done at some point in the near future (as soon as I can save the funds basically), all the results I've heard seem amazing!!!
I've worked out so far that I'll need about £5000-£5500 for surgery and flights depending on the FX rate at the time. It shouldn't take too long to scrape together (yipee for Christmas bonuses, though I may need to sell some of my massive collection of Transformers :().
I was wondering what expenses are like once over in Seoul?
Are hotels expensive, does it cost much to get about?
Do you need any sort of follow up appointment while/after healing?
I've seen that some people have a botox injection after, what does this do?
Sorry if these questions have already been answered, but I don't have the time to read through 35+ pages of a thread!
Hi Kaylee, I think I can answer some of your questions:
Expenses: Seoul overall is an expensive city, especially being in Gangnam. Most day to day things were at least as expensive as cities in the U.S. But I had no problem finding good places to eat dinner for <$15-$20 and not including lodging you can easily work with $40-$50 a day.
Hotels/Getting Around: As Kiwi said you can always use AirBnB to rent somebody's apartment. This will typically be cheaper than a hotel with more space but none of the amenities that come with a hotel. However, the hotels weren't as expensive as I thought they would be in Gangnam. I stayed in a suite with kitchen and washer/dryer for <$150 a night at a 4 star hotel. There were plenty of nice looking but cheaper hotels in the area for <$100. As far as getting around, their metro is really clean and efficient. I used it a lot for 10 days and I think I spent less than $15-$20 the whole time. Taxi's are also cheap. My hotel was about 3km from Yeson and even with heavy traffic the fare was never more than ~$8.
Follow-up: You have a one week follow-up appointment during your stay. This is why your trip has to be at least ~10 days long. They recommend you see a laryngologist within the first year of your surgery but they didn't stress this to me as being important. Most Koreans that have the surgery just go back to Yeson since a second follow up within a year is included in the surgery cost.
Botox: If you have a vocal tremor they may recommend Botox. The reason Dr. Kim gave me was that even a slight tremor can be sort of "magnified" once the vocal folds are shortened. In my case my existing tremor was very minor so I was just prescribed a medication to help with it. I haven't noticed any issues with a vocal tremor and didn't notice any before surgery either.
Edit: And yeah, if you do decide to go through with the surgery it's definitely worth reading the whole thread. A lot of great information!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
I have another question - what is the deal with the vocal tremor - can you feel or notice it beforehand and what is the problem with it - if it is botoxed, it will only go away for some time and then come back, right? Will it have a negative effect then later on?
And another one - do you or Jenny consider going to Yeson for the followup? What is done at the followup - anything important or anything like some corrections that may be needed? If it is just a checkup with no procedures, I guess there is no need to go to Yeson, but a checkup is usually only done if there is a chance that some thigns will be noticed at that time that require intervention - in that case I guess Yeson would be the right place to find out if that is so and what to do (and do it)? It probably would be a financial issue - another flight, 2 hotel nights at least etc - so its the question if that would be worth considereing or not. Does he give instructions to other doctors in your own country as to what to check for at that followup?
And another one - do you or Jenny consider going to Yeson for the followup? What is done at the followup - anything important or anything like some corrections that may be needed? If it is just a checkup with no procedures, I guess there is no need to go to Yeson, but a checkup is usually only done if there is a chance that some thigns will be noticed at that time that require intervention - in that case I guess Yeson would be the right place to find out if that is so and what to do (and do it)? It probably would be a financial issue - another flight, 2 hotel nights at least etc - so its the question if that would be worth considereing or not. Does he give instructions to other doctors in your own country as to what to check for at that followup?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kaylee on October 31, 2013, 12:43:55 PM
Post by: Kaylee on October 31, 2013, 12:43:55 PM
Thanks for the info guys, really appreciate it.
Definitely gonna go for it I think. I can normally pass quite well nowadays (I hope anyway, I had a friend that I'd not seen in a while try and introduce themselves the other day!) but get given away as soon as I open my mouth :(.
I have quite a deep voice naturally, which is exacerbated by a thick Teesside/Yorkshire accent, not a lot of vocal control, always feel a bit silly trying to do voice practice at home and always forget to try and maintain it when I'm with friends (or when a little bit tipsy!), it'd be good to not have the option of slipping into a gruff male voice.
Time to get saving I suppose!
Definitely gonna go for it I think. I can normally pass quite well nowadays (I hope anyway, I had a friend that I'd not seen in a while try and introduce themselves the other day!) but get given away as soon as I open my mouth :(.
I have quite a deep voice naturally, which is exacerbated by a thick Teesside/Yorkshire accent, not a lot of vocal control, always feel a bit silly trying to do voice practice at home and always forget to try and maintain it when I'm with friends (or when a little bit tipsy!), it'd be good to not have the option of slipping into a gruff male voice.
Time to get saving I suppose!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on October 31, 2013, 10:37:35 PM
Post by: Paige0000 on October 31, 2013, 10:37:35 PM
Alright so after doing some emailing with Jessie I've decided to definitely pursue this surgery (will get a trachea shave too, though only the notch so as not to risk affecting my surgery). I plan on getting it done jan or Feb next year so I have a bit of planning to do (Getting a Passport, booking accommodations, flights etc). Now a bit of an obstacle is that I'll need a parents birth certificate to qualify for a passport in Australia. Have to think about obtaining this as I doubt my parents will be compliant to give it to me. Hmm.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 01, 2013, 04:14:54 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 01, 2013, 04:14:54 AM
Kaylee - I understand that totally. I just saw the first money trickle in to my savings account ;) - Though I am not sure if you have not a lot of vocal control if the surgery will really do what you hope? As I understood it, it only increases average pitch basically by cutting off the lower ranges. You still need to train to speak inthe new range and you still need to control your voice for resonances (the "gruffy" part of the voice). Isnt that so? This is why I want to do proper voice training first to be able to get a good voice "by willpower and training" alone and only want to do the surgery if I find I cannot maintain it, loose it in some situations, find it too much of an effort etc. And I think this will be so. But I somehow expect that this would help me to later control that new voice as well as it still has to be controlled as I understand it, but that this should be a lot easier then. Please correct or affirm me there, Jenny and Abby?
On the "homefront" I get a lot of "flak" (is that how you say it in american military speech? ;) ) for considering VFS. Two of my closest friends are supportive if this is what I feel that I need to do (even though they say they will miss my voice as it supposedly is "attractive, sonorous and calming"). Others just think it is a bad idea and even the two say that I am risking something there - to get pitch up too high as a result or to get breathy (as this was the result of two friends of them who had the Y-suture). I tried to get into local TG support groups online but they are like 99% bombarding me with warnings there. Some claim that Dr Thomas in Portland would be the only one who can do a good result - I read on his procedure and it is massively invasive. But most just say that 99% of TS women made it with training, so why should I be different. I dont know. Maybe I am, maybe I am not, maybe for some of them its not important, maybe some of them just dont care if they are seen as TS - I have no idea why I as one of a very few TS out there in the world want to do VFS and not just be content with doing voice training. But its in my head, so lets see where it goes. What I did not get was - I pointed them to the yeson youtube channel to check the recordings, I also linked to posts here that had the long term recordings in them. It did not convince them - they claimed that the results were ok but not great and that with voice training they could do better - I dont get it - I find the recodings here nothing short but amazing. Yes, some voice training results are totally amazing too, but I dont think that invalidates the option discussed here. I think this may just be a certain bias there. Interestingly the same people vehemently are in facour of FFS and suggested 5 different procedures there for me, shocking me to bits with it.
On the "homefront" I get a lot of "flak" (is that how you say it in american military speech? ;) ) for considering VFS. Two of my closest friends are supportive if this is what I feel that I need to do (even though they say they will miss my voice as it supposedly is "attractive, sonorous and calming"). Others just think it is a bad idea and even the two say that I am risking something there - to get pitch up too high as a result or to get breathy (as this was the result of two friends of them who had the Y-suture). I tried to get into local TG support groups online but they are like 99% bombarding me with warnings there. Some claim that Dr Thomas in Portland would be the only one who can do a good result - I read on his procedure and it is massively invasive. But most just say that 99% of TS women made it with training, so why should I be different. I dont know. Maybe I am, maybe I am not, maybe for some of them its not important, maybe some of them just dont care if they are seen as TS - I have no idea why I as one of a very few TS out there in the world want to do VFS and not just be content with doing voice training. But its in my head, so lets see where it goes. What I did not get was - I pointed them to the yeson youtube channel to check the recordings, I also linked to posts here that had the long term recordings in them. It did not convince them - they claimed that the results were ok but not great and that with voice training they could do better - I dont get it - I find the recodings here nothing short but amazing. Yes, some voice training results are totally amazing too, but I dont think that invalidates the option discussed here. I think this may just be a certain bias there. Interestingly the same people vehemently are in facour of FFS and suggested 5 different procedures there for me, shocking me to bits with it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on November 03, 2013, 02:58:49 AM
Post by: barbie on November 03, 2013, 02:58:49 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on October 29, 2013, 03:25:50 PM
Taxis are wildly cheap - only 10% of the cost of what they are here. But only take the ORANGE cabs. The others (there are millions) don't have the same reputation, and all the orange cabs have a translation service. We never spent more than $14 and that was for a 40 minute taxi fare!
As I think you are in pounds, you could budget for no more than $70 pounds max, per day. And that's eating out 2 or 3 times a day, and I'm not talking Pizza Hut, but nice food, or at least seemingly up-market food outlets/restaraunts. In saying that I'm quoting for two people.
We stayed in Gangnam. It takes maybe 10 minutes by taxi to get to Yeson from there, and you could walk it in 13 minutes. Be prepared to be stared at and stared through, because you are not Korean.
Seoul is huge - the biggest city I have ever been in, so you do need to have a little bit of inner compass.
I don't smoke but cigarettes are $2.70 a packet of 20. Here they are $20
But a two litre bottle of water is $15!
Visiting Seoul is not so much challenging.
I am also tired of being stared here everyday. Some people study my face more than 1 min. This is the same in foreign countries. Recently I visited Germany, Slovenia, Finland, Russia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan and Canada. The only places where people did not stare at me so much were Japan and Canada.
Young Koreans are generally more fluent in English, and workers in hotels can help you in translation.
For ordinary tax, if you pronounce the destination in Korean clearly, then most taxi drivers will understand it and take you there. Or you can show the driver a map or a memo on the destination written in Korean, which workers in hotels can prepare for you. Drivers can not cheat you, because the fee is displayed in the meter.
Or, you have a phone or others can make a call for you, you can call a taxi and they will come within a few minutes. The prices is nearly the same.
http://www.korea4expats.com/article-call-reserve-taxi-seoul.html
I usually call a taxi, rather than waiting in the street.
Transportation cost within Korea is far cheaper than other countries, because the government severely regulates the fees. For example, from Seoul to Jeju island by plane, taking about 1 hour, it costs < US$100, and you can take one every 5 mins. From Seoul to Busan, by the express train, taking about 2.5 hours for ca. 400 km = 250 mile, it costs about US$50, and you can take it every 15 minutes. You can travel to other cities or places in Korea with far cheaper budget.
For comparison, in Canada, they asked ca. US$400 for just a 20 min. trip from Vancouver to Nanaimo by the small plane. It was cancelled from the dense fog, and I took a ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver at ca. US$15. And, I paid Canada $90 to the Vancouver airport by the taxi, including the tip.
In Seoul, I can have nice breakfast or lunch at a minimum of ca. US$ 3, but mostly US$ 7-8.
Water bottles are not not so much expensive. They cost about US$ 1 at convenient stores (at my home town, it costs about US$ 0.5).
Hotels in Seoul are mostly expensive. I can search and find for affordable hotels < US$50, but I would not recommend these hotels to you. Most hotels in Seoul are old, except those in Gangnam. In Gangnam, the minimum cost is about US$80 per night. This is nearly the same as in New York Manhattan. But the hotel prices in Seoul are less expensive than Helsinki or Saint Petersburg, Russia, I am sure. When I was in a Marriott hotel at Okinawa, Japan, I paid ca. US$300 per night, even though it was winter, not a high-demand season. And, two weeks ago in Nanaimo, Canada, I paid US$ 75 per night, although it was the cheapest one in the area.
Cigarette is cheaper than other countries, but beer and wine are more expensive in Seoul, because of absurdly higher tax on alcohol products. I like Korean traditional rice wine, but it is very difficult to find nice Makeolli bottles in Seoul: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makgeolli It is cheaper and above all very nice for your health.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Paige0000 on November 05, 2013, 12:58:36 AM
Post by: Paige0000 on November 05, 2013, 12:58:36 AM
Oh I was wondering is payment paid in advance for surgery or is the bill sent to you post op?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 05, 2013, 01:06:52 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 05, 2013, 01:06:52 AM
Quote from: Paige0000 on November 05, 2013, 12:58:36 AM
Oh I was wondering is payment paid in advance for surgery or is the bill sent to you post op?
Are you serious?
Your bill will be required to be paid about 3 weeks in advance (as mine was) and you may even be asked to pay again (as I was) before I pointed out I had paid my bill in full.
I would be very surprised if you were ever given the opportunity to pay off your account, although I was for a procedure in my own country, however the surgeon was not aware of my "status" and treated me with the respect most other people in society enjoy. I did pay off my bill...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 05, 2013, 02:46:47 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 05, 2013, 02:46:47 AM
I paid up front on the first day I had an appointment, and then 400 right before the botox injection.
Luckily I had brought with me exactly 400usd to keep in the hotel safe for traveling expenses or in case my card got stolen. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have been able to pay for the botox (my bank shut down my card and would not reactivate it because I couldn't speak over the phone to reauthorize it). In desperation, I whispered over the phone to verify myself and I was worried sick that I had messed something up. Then they froze it again immediately after I made my first ATM transaction.
Also very luckily, my friend had enough to cover for my food expenses until we got back to the states. I THEN had to go into the branch location to try to convince a blank employee I was myself, even though I don't look the same as my male ID- still without being able to talk.
I forgot how much of a nightmare my bank was. Ugh. Always make sure you let your bank know in every possible way that you will be traveling. Being in a foreign country without access to your bank account is nerve wracking to say the least! I DID let my bank know several times both on the phone and at the branch beforehand and the "card protection services" still managed to screw it up. By the end of it I was calling them "card jerkoff services". I could never say it though, only write ;)
On the plus side, I paid the botox charge in cash and there was no conversion rate at all so I saved some money there. :P
Luckily I had brought with me exactly 400usd to keep in the hotel safe for traveling expenses or in case my card got stolen. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have been able to pay for the botox (my bank shut down my card and would not reactivate it because I couldn't speak over the phone to reauthorize it). In desperation, I whispered over the phone to verify myself and I was worried sick that I had messed something up. Then they froze it again immediately after I made my first ATM transaction.
Also very luckily, my friend had enough to cover for my food expenses until we got back to the states. I THEN had to go into the branch location to try to convince a blank employee I was myself, even though I don't look the same as my male ID- still without being able to talk.
I forgot how much of a nightmare my bank was. Ugh. Always make sure you let your bank know in every possible way that you will be traveling. Being in a foreign country without access to your bank account is nerve wracking to say the least! I DID let my bank know several times both on the phone and at the branch beforehand and the "card protection services" still managed to screw it up. By the end of it I was calling them "card jerkoff services". I could never say it though, only write ;)
On the plus side, I paid the botox charge in cash and there was no conversion rate at all so I saved some money there. :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 05, 2013, 03:48:20 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 05, 2013, 03:48:20 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 05, 2013, 02:46:47 AM
I paid up front on the first day I had an appointment, and then 400 right before the botox injection.
Luckily I had brought with me exactly 400usd to keep in the hotel safe for traveling expenses or in case my card got stolen. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have been able to pay for the botox (my bank shut down my card and would not reactivate it because I couldn't speak over the phone to reauthorize it). In desperation, I whispered over the phone to verify myself and I was worried sick that I had messed something up. Then they froze it again immediately after I made my first ATM transaction.
Also very luckily, my friend had enough to cover for my food expenses until we got back to the states. I THEN had to go into the branch location to try to convince a blank employee I was myself, even though I don't look the same as my male ID- still without being able to talk.
I forgot how much of a nightmare my bank was. Ugh. Always make sure you let your bank know in every possible way that you will be traveling. Being in a foreign country without access to your bank account is nerve wracking to say the least! I DID let my bank know several times both on the phone and at the branch beforehand and the "card protection services" still managed to screw it up. By the end of it I was calling them "card jerkoff services". I could never say it though, only write ;)
On the plus side, I paid the botox charge in cash and there was no conversion rate at all so I saved some money there. :P
Sorry, I forgot to mention that...yes, I to paid the $400 for the botox in cash. Except (because they >-bleeped-<ed me around) I only paid $200. (see previous posts about my experience)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 05, 2013, 08:47:09 AM
Post by: sarahb on November 05, 2013, 08:47:09 AM
All the documents I've gotten from them have said that full payment is due during the first consultation (the day before surgery). I am a week away from surgery and haven't had any requirement to pay in advance. Although, if I wanted to I could pay beforehand using a wire transfer, which they said does have to be made at least three weeks prior, likely to make sure everything goes through ok. But if you're paying with cash or credit card then it's due the day before surgery.
Jenny, I've been stressing about my bank too. They said they put a note on my account so I shouldn't have any issues, but I sent a message to them to double check that it's correct. Although I do have my American Express and I'm hoping I won't have any troubles with that, but if I do I'd like to know that my bank card won't be declined.
Jenny, I've been stressing about my bank too. They said they put a note on my account so I shouldn't have any issues, but I sent a message to them to double check that it's correct. Although I do have my American Express and I'm hoping I won't have any troubles with that, but if I do I'd like to know that my bank card won't be declined.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 05, 2013, 08:54:23 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 05, 2013, 08:54:23 AM
that sounds good. So if you happen to fall ill and get a cold or whatever, you have not already paid and then maybe need to find a way to refund the money. I mean not in your case, I am sure you will avoid any colds and such ;) - but generally for others who go there.
BTW: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,153240.html
BTW: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,153240.html
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 05, 2013, 04:35:12 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 05, 2013, 04:35:12 PM
Sarah- I would try to get through to the department within your bank that deals directly with identity protection, or whichever department actually puts the card in a "protected" or disabled state.
You could also call back in a few days and see if they have indeed notated your account. Even after two attempts with my bank, nobody could see that it had ever been notated that I would be traveling.
It's really good that you have your American Express as a backup either way, but with the amount of prep you are doing you probably won't need it :)
You could also call back in a few days and see if they have indeed notated your account. Even after two attempts with my bank, nobody could see that it had ever been notated that I would be traveling.
It's really good that you have your American Express as a backup either way, but with the amount of prep you are doing you probably won't need it :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 06, 2013, 06:35:52 PM
Post by: sarahb on November 06, 2013, 06:35:52 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 05, 2013, 04:35:12 PM
Sarah- I would try to get through to the department within your bank that deals directly with identity protection, or whichever department actually puts the card in a "protected" or disabled state.
You could also call back in a few days and see if they have indeed notated your account. Even after two attempts with my bank, nobody could see that it had ever been notated that I would be traveling.
It's really good that you have your American Express as a backup either way, but with the amount of prep you are doing you probably won't need it :)
I just called my bank directly today and had them add a note so my card is ok. They didn't mention anything about a previous note already being there, even though I had online communication with them that said they added it (twice). Thanks for the suggestion, I feel confident now that the note is there. I also asked about the daily limit being increased.
Right now my bank card has a daily limit of $2,500, so if I had to use it to pay for the surgery if my Amex is declined for some reason I wouldn't be able to. They do allow me to call on the day of the transaction to increase it temporarily, however, it only lasts until the end of the day. The problem is that Seoul is 16 or 17 hours ahead which would put it on Sunday when I'd have to call to have it increased, since my consultation is on Monday (South Korean time). I asked the guy on the phone about it and he didn't know, so he asked his supervisor and they are now going to test some things tonight to see if they can have the limit raised for more than a day to accommodate me. It's not guaranteed that it'll work, but it's awesome that they're trying to work with me and figure out a way to get it done. They said they'll give me a call tomorrow to let me know if it'll work or not! That's pretty awesome customer service!
In the end though my bank card is only there as a backup for the Amex, so hopefully I won't have any issues with the Amex. I did double check the Amex website and they explicitly say that there's no need to inform them of international travel, so that, along with the fact that I've already called them, gives me even more confidence that it'll be fine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on November 07, 2013, 04:31:24 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on November 07, 2013, 04:31:24 PM
Sarah - I'm sure everything is going to be fine! I can't believe it's so close!!
I know it's been a while since I posted - sorry! If you want to hear an update I've uploaded one here - sorry it's kind of long!
https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-11-7-2013
I know it's been a while since I posted - sorry! If you want to hear an update I've uploaded one here - sorry it's kind of long!
https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-11-7-2013
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 07, 2013, 05:39:43 PM
Post by: Shantel on November 07, 2013, 05:39:43 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 07, 2013, 04:31:24 PM
Sarah - I'm sure everything is going to be fine! I can't believe it's so close!!
I know it's been a while since I posted - sorry! If you want to hear an update I've uploaded one here - sorry it's kind of long!
https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-11-7-2013
Abby, your voice tonal quality and pitch is just fine. The only difference between your voice and Jenny's is that you are two completely different people. I think you may have to work on your delivery at some point, but that may just be because you are making a tape and not actually having a one-on-one conversation with somebody which would come across as more natural. When making a tape you will speak in a halting manner and suddenly go to a quick staccato with each sentence, you're going to have to modify that to a more typically female conversational tempo.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: amZo on November 08, 2013, 03:10:34 PM
Post by: amZo on November 08, 2013, 03:10:34 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 07, 2013, 04:31:24 PM
Sarah - I'm sure everything is going to be fine! I can't believe it's so close!!
I know it's been a while since I posted - sorry! If you want to hear an update I've uploaded one here - sorry it's kind of long!
https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-11-7-2013
Very nice female voice. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 08, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
Post by: sarahb on November 08, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 07, 2013, 04:31:24 PM
Sarah - I'm sure everything is going to be fine! I can't believe it's so close!!
I know it's been a while since I posted - sorry! If you want to hear an update I've uploaded one here - sorry it's kind of long!
https://soundcloud.com/abbyev89/susans-message-11-7-2013
Thanks Abby. You're voice sounds really good, btw. How are you coming along with loudness? Do you feel like you've regained your loudness 100%, and is your overall upper range still increasing?
Oh and congrats on FFS in a couple months!! So excited for you :) Keep us updated on how that goes and post pictures!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LizMarie on November 10, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Post by: LizMarie on November 10, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
Quote from: Shantel on November 07, 2013, 05:39:43 PM
Abby, your voice tonal quality and pitch is just fine. The only difference between your voice and Jenny's is that you are two completely different people. I think you may have to work on your delivery at some point, but that may just be because you are making a tape and not actually having a one-on-one conversation with somebody which would come across as more natural. When making a tape you will speak in a halting manner and suddenly go to a quick staccato with each sentence, you're going to have to modify that to a more typically female conversational tempo.
I know several cisgender women who speak in that quick staccato, and every single one of them is a geologist, engineer, or computer scientist. ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 10, 2013, 10:26:03 AM
Post by: Shantel on November 10, 2013, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: LizMarie on November 10, 2013, 10:19:38 AM
I know several cisgender women who speak in that quick staccato, and every single one of them is a geologist, engineer, or computer scientist. ;)
Hmm you may have clicked on a valid point, I don't know what Abby does. I think her voice has changed beautifully and hope I didn't upset her with my comments, I'm not here to hurt people's feelings.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LizMarie on November 10, 2013, 05:50:55 PM
Post by: LizMarie on November 10, 2013, 05:50:55 PM
Quote from: Shantel on November 10, 2013, 10:26:03 AM
Hmm you may have clicked on a valid point, I don't know what Abby does. I think her voice has changed beautifully and hope I didn't upset her with my comments, I'm not here to hurt people's feelings.
I didn't see it as hurtful, Shantel! :)
My intent was simply to point out that it appears that some women adopt more "male" speaking habits when working in what are usually heavily male dominated fields. In my experience, often those same women revert to more feminine speaking habits outside meetings and the office, such as at lunch, Friday happy hour, etc. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 10, 2013, 06:55:20 PM
Post by: Shantel on November 10, 2013, 06:55:20 PM
Quote from: LizMarie on November 10, 2013, 05:50:55 PM
I didn't see it as hurtful, Shantel! :)
My intent was simply to point out that it appears that some women adopt more "male" speaking habits when working in what are usually heavily male dominated fields. In my experience, often those same women revert to more feminine speaking habits outside meetings and the office, such as at lunch, Friday happy hour, etc. :)
Oh gotcha hon, makes sense!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on November 11, 2013, 04:50:24 AM
Post by: Carlita on November 11, 2013, 04:50:24 AM
Quote from: Shantel on November 07, 2013, 05:39:43 PM
Abby, your voice tonal quality and pitch is just fine. The only difference between your voice and Jenny's is that you are two completely different people. I think you may have to work on your delivery at some point, but that may just be because you are making a tape and not actually having a one-on-one conversation with somebody which would come across as more natural. When making a tape you will speak in a halting manner and suddenly go to a quick staccato with each sentence, you're going to have to modify that to a more typically female conversational tempo.
I agree with you Shantel about Abby's pitch and tonal quality being just fine. The voice on this recording is well within the norm for a female voice - whatever the pitch in Hz might be. So the issue now becomes one of speech patterns, modulation, inflexion, character ... just the general ways of speaking that help us distinguish between male and female speech. And I'm sure that's a matter of relaxing into a new voice, learning to 'own' it and then just letting the woman inside come out and speak as she wants to speak.
And one thing's for sure, Abby ... no one's going to call the voice on that recording 'Mister'! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 11, 2013, 09:57:18 AM
Post by: Shantel on November 11, 2013, 09:57:18 AM
Quote from: Carlita on November 11, 2013, 04:50:24 AM
I agree with you Shantel about Abby's pitch and tonal quality being just fine. The voice on this recording is well within the norm for a female voice - whatever the pitch in Hz might be. So the issue now becomes one of speech patterns, modulation, inflexion, character ... just the general ways of speaking that help us distinguish between male and female speech. And I'm sure that's a matter of relaxing into a new voice, learning to 'own' it and then just letting the woman inside come out and speak as she wants to speak.
And one thing's for sure, Abby ... no one's going to call the voice on that recording 'Mister'! :)
Thanks Carlita, you said it so much more succinctly than I was able to.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 11, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 11, 2013, 03:14:19 PM
I totally notice that. If i am talking at work with the geologists, I tend to do different voice patterns than if I am in a circle of women only. Its situational.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on November 11, 2013, 05:50:02 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on November 11, 2013, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Shantel on November 10, 2013, 10:26:03 AM
Hmm you may have clicked on a valid point, I don't know what Abby does. I think her voice has changed beautifully and hope I didn't upset her with my comments, I'm not here to hurt people's feelings.
Oh gosh of course not! And yeah the staccato/the way I talk in that recording is moreso me not really knowing what to say haha.
But anyway thanks for the kind words everyone :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on November 15, 2013, 11:11:15 PM
Post by: abbyt89 on November 15, 2013, 11:11:15 PM
Sorry for posting more recordings - I know it's a lot!! But I've been doing a lot of work with my voice today and have two different voices at a pretty big difference in pitch (~20hz) and I'm curious what you think sounds better.
Message: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1HM6f6XAov2
Voice 1 (205hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JzL23LqAVz
Voice 2 (185hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1PwDIsek91Z
Message: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1HM6f6XAov2
Voice 1 (205hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JzL23LqAVz
Voice 2 (185hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1PwDIsek91Z
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 16, 2013, 12:33:58 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 16, 2013, 12:33:58 AM
Abby, if I were you...
I wouldn't stress so much with your voice. Do your exercises and let it happen, naturally.
That's what I will be doing. And, I will never try and "drop" my voice again, to talk like a man. I don't need to do it anymore, and it would be counter-productive.
Rest - Relax - and let it happen. :)
I wouldn't stress so much with your voice. Do your exercises and let it happen, naturally.
That's what I will be doing. And, I will never try and "drop" my voice again, to talk like a man. I don't need to do it anymore, and it would be counter-productive.
Rest - Relax - and let it happen. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 16, 2013, 02:02:20 AM
Post by: sarahb on November 16, 2013, 02:02:20 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 15, 2013, 11:11:15 PM
Sorry for posting more recordings - I know it's a lot!! But I've been doing a lot of work with my voice today and have two different voices at a pretty big difference in pitch (~20hz) and I'm curious what you think sounds better.
Message: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1HM6f6XAov2
Voice 1 (205hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JzL23LqAVz
Voice 2 (185hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1PwDIsek91Z
To be honest, I think the biggest change I notice in all three of these recordings is your change in inflection, which I think has made all three of these recording sound better than any of your other ones. Your previous recordings would have good resonance and pitch, but the inflection would seem a little exaggerated at times. In these recordings they are more natural sounding. Also, I don't hear a guy in any of these recordings so I wouldn't even be worrying about that, lol. I would say focus most of your time on honing in on a natural inflection like you have here and you'll likely be able to choose either pitch and it'll sound perfect.
Really, Abby, it's sounding great as you're perfecting each area of your voice! Keep these recordings coming, I'm loving it :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 16, 2013, 08:47:26 AM
Post by: Shantel on November 16, 2013, 08:47:26 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 15, 2013, 11:11:15 PM
Sorry for posting more recordings - I know it's a lot!! But I've been doing a lot of work with my voice today and have two different voices at a pretty big difference in pitch (~20hz) and I'm curious what you think sounds better.
Message: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1HM6f6XAov2
Voice 1 (205hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JzL23LqAVz
Voice 2 (185hz): http://vocaroo.com/i/s1PwDIsek91Z
Abby,
I like them all but the last one sounds more natural and perhaps if it is more natural sounding to you and feels easier and more natural for you to speak in that tone then that is obviously where you should be. There is nothing male in any of the recordings and I do prefer the last one.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on November 16, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on November 16, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
@Kiwi: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do lol, it's not really working too well. It's just the kind of person I am, I tend to obsess over things. But like I said in my recording I'm trying to stop worrying about the actual pitch of my voice. I am still doing my vocal exercises every day but I stopped keeping track of all the readings that I do.
@Sarah: Thanks, these recordings are definitely most in line with how I talk in real life so it's good to hear that the inflection and such is great. And yeah, that's my main focus now - just kind of refining my voice.
@Shan: Thanks :) I think I prefer the lower pitch as long as it doesn't sound more male or anything because I just feel like it fits me better I guess? I dunno, but going into the voice surgery the one thing I wanted to avoid was something that was way too high.
@Sarah: Thanks, these recordings are definitely most in line with how I talk in real life so it's good to hear that the inflection and such is great. And yeah, that's my main focus now - just kind of refining my voice.
@Shan: Thanks :) I think I prefer the lower pitch as long as it doesn't sound more male or anything because I just feel like it fits me better I guess? I dunno, but going into the voice surgery the one thing I wanted to avoid was something that was way too high.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 16, 2013, 10:57:01 AM
Post by: Shantel on November 16, 2013, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on November 16, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
@Shan: Thanks :) I think I prefer the lower pitch as long as it doesn't sound more male or anything because I just feel like it fits me better I guess? I dunno, but going into the voice surgery the one thing I wanted to avoid was something that was way too high.
Good plan, that's the way I would go too, it sounds remarkably female so go with it. Maybe is you were a little 5' 2" thing with a tweety bird boney little chest the higher pitch would be fine, but it would seem unnatural coming out of you given what I've seen of you in that lovely full length photo you put up awhile back.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2013, 05:35:36 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2013, 05:35:36 PM
I think the 185 Hz recording is great - and I think if you can do this more or less effortless, this is the best way to go. After all why would you want to go though all the stress about having a VFS if afterwards you still are putting too much effort into maintaining an even higher pitch. At least fo me the main goal of this whole thing if I would do it would be to not give a bleep anymore about pitch and just focus on sounding clear (meaning no odd resonances that do not fit).
I also think that all of these recordings sound very female - not overly feminine, but thats not the goal - the goal was to sound female and that is working out fine :) - Interestingly I think that for some reason even if you drop down to some chest resonance, it still does sound female and I wonder how this is working really -is Yeson doing something more than just working on the pitch - some magic that he does not tell anyone ;)
I also think that all of these recordings sound very female - not overly feminine, but thats not the goal - the goal was to sound female and that is working out fine :) - Interestingly I think that for some reason even if you drop down to some chest resonance, it still does sound female and I wonder how this is working really -is Yeson doing something more than just working on the pitch - some magic that he does not tell anyone ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 16, 2013, 06:16:02 PM
Post by: Shantel on November 16, 2013, 06:16:02 PM
Quote from: anjaq on November 16, 2013, 05:35:36 PM
I wonder how this is working really -is Yeson doing something more than just working on the pitch - some magic that he does not tell anyone ;)
Perhaps you're up for a trip to Korea soon Anjaq?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 16, 2013, 06:18:32 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 16, 2013, 06:18:32 PM
After what Dr. Kim said to me, it is my understanding that you still have to train the voice to access the higher pitches. Without any training, the natural tendency is to keep it at the low range (still sounds female though)
For most of us, I think the low range will be enough. But you can always train it higher to take full advantage.
I do kind of a mix... It's situational. Having access to the higher pitches (especially for speaking up!) seems like a good idea.
That's one thing I need to practice more... speaking up. Sometimes when I speak loudly it still sounds a bit on the male side of androgynous or almost like my voice is getting tired. I presume it's all because of how long it takes the vocal cords to adjust and re-tighten. It's certainly getting better at times. I noticed that if I have more than one alcoholic beverage, the next morning is kind of a sh** show when it comes to pitch. Sooo hard to access those higher frequencies. In November I cut back my alcohol intake drastically and I've been much happier with my voice as a result.
For most of us, I think the low range will be enough. But you can always train it higher to take full advantage.
I do kind of a mix... It's situational. Having access to the higher pitches (especially for speaking up!) seems like a good idea.
That's one thing I need to practice more... speaking up. Sometimes when I speak loudly it still sounds a bit on the male side of androgynous or almost like my voice is getting tired. I presume it's all because of how long it takes the vocal cords to adjust and re-tighten. It's certainly getting better at times. I noticed that if I have more than one alcoholic beverage, the next morning is kind of a sh** show when it comes to pitch. Sooo hard to access those higher frequencies. In November I cut back my alcohol intake drastically and I've been much happier with my voice as a result.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 16, 2013, 06:24:50 PM
Post by: sarahb on November 16, 2013, 06:24:50 PM
I can definitely see it taking practice to reach the higher frequencies as it would be so unfamiliar.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2013, 06:28:28 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2013, 06:28:28 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 16, 2013, 06:18:32 PMInteresting. Well I would have assumed that you can access the higher pitches with voice training alone as well (without surgery)? I guess using higher pitches situationally yes that is probably something to do, but I think to have some way to not drop too much is also good. From what I heard with you, even the lowest range is still female, right?
After what Dr. Kim said to me, it is my understanding that you still have to train the voice to access the higher pitches. Without any training, the natural tendency is to keep it at the low range (still sounds female though)
QuoteThat's one thing I need to practice more... speaking up. Sometimes when I speak loudly it still sounds a bit on the male side of androgynous or almost like my voice is getting tired. I presume it's all because of how long it takes the vocal cords to adjust and re-tighten.Oh ok - thats not great then - on the male side really just from speaking up? How come? Is it about resonance or does your pitch drop at these situations as well? It will be interesting to know how things will be when you are fully healed. Up to now you all can put off any flaws you still have (like not enough loudness, projection, pitch increase) on the timetable of healing more. I hope that it will all sort out and in half a year or so you can tell us that those things really went away (and prove all the doubters in my country wrong who claim that after a VFS one still will sound male at times and one does not have as much loudness as before)
QuoteI noticed that if I have more than one alcoholic beverage, the next morning is kind of a sh** show when it comes to pitch. Sooo hard to access those higher frequencies. In November I cut back my alcohol intake drastically and I've been much happier with my voice as a result.Oh no - that was one of the situations I have in my list of time when I was thinking to need VFS as my voice drops now when I am drunk ;)
Quote from: Shantel on November 16, 2013, 06:16:02 PMDont you push that topic also ;) - Jenny and Sarah are already convinced that I will go for sure :P - more than me being convinced that I will spend the money i am saving up now actually on doing this and not on some nice vacation instead if I manage to get this fixed without VFS ...
Perhaps you're up for a trip to Korea soon Anjaq?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 16, 2013, 06:37:07 PM
Post by: sarahb on November 16, 2013, 06:37:07 PM
Oh and Jenny, I highly doubt you sound male in those situations ;) Maybe a lower frequency, but from what I've heard you cannot sound male. Even when you use a lower frequency you just sound like a girl doing a lower pitch.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 16, 2013, 07:08:26 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 16, 2013, 07:08:26 PM
anjac- I think it's a matter of more practice and more strength in my vocal cords to be able to keep up with talking loudly. I'm technically only halfway through to a full recovery so I'm not at all worried about it.
True true, I don't think it sounds full male- there's no way. I guess just constantly comparing my voice to cis women has made me realize that when speaking up girls voices to get way up there with no effort at all. If I've been doing a bunch of talking it seems to be harder to keep it in the 260-300hz range where I want to be. Compared to even a month ago, it is already way better. Just have to keep practicing and building vocal strength back.
Quote from: SarahR on November 16, 2013, 06:37:07 PM
Oh and Jenny, I highly doubt you sound male in those situations ;) Maybe a lower frequency, but from what I've heard you cannot sound male. Even when you use a lower frequency you just sound like a girl doing a lower pitch.
True true, I don't think it sounds full male- there's no way. I guess just constantly comparing my voice to cis women has made me realize that when speaking up girls voices to get way up there with no effort at all. If I've been doing a bunch of talking it seems to be harder to keep it in the 260-300hz range where I want to be. Compared to even a month ago, it is already way better. Just have to keep practicing and building vocal strength back.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 17, 2013, 03:51:05 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 17, 2013, 03:51:05 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 16, 2013, 07:08:26 PM
If I've been doing a bunch of talking it seems to be harder to keep it in the 260-300hz range where I want to be. Compared to even a month ago, it is already way better. Just have to keep practicing and building vocal strength back.
Ok, but that 260 Hz plus range is more like exceptional short moments right, single words and such. What I do when I go from my regular 150 Hz up to 190 or so for some words... I am really interested in getting to know how your strength is developing. It is one thing most people who warned me about doing VFS will say as an argument to not do it - that vocal strength is not as good as it was pre op. I dont think they have to be right and Dr Gross who did the Y-suture and followed the results and found a diminished vocal strength in all his patiens except one who had a low strength pre op anyways - that was after less than a year I think and he wrote that it can be improved with more exercises.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 17, 2013, 04:59:31 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 17, 2013, 04:59:31 PM
Well if it comes down to choosing a weaker voice compared to a passable voice, I choose the weaker voice. Personally mine does not feel any weaker.. Quite the contrary especially in the 180-250hz range.
Last night I went to a burlesque party and it was a true test. My voice did wonderfully all night and passed to everyone that didn't already know I am trans. I even got a few cute guys' numbers ;) But this morning, I was in a state of recovery from all of the yelling over the music. A gentle vocal warm up + a bit of water and I'm already almost back to normal. A month ago, my voice would have been gone all through the day after speaking so loudly. It takes time to rebuild the strength + endurance.
Either way, it feels like it's getting there in terms of stamina. Even when my voice is a bit tired from a heavy vocal workout the night before (like it is now), it still passes and doesn't sound raspy or quiet at all.
Last night I went to a burlesque party and it was a true test. My voice did wonderfully all night and passed to everyone that didn't already know I am trans. I even got a few cute guys' numbers ;) But this morning, I was in a state of recovery from all of the yelling over the music. A gentle vocal warm up + a bit of water and I'm already almost back to normal. A month ago, my voice would have been gone all through the day after speaking so loudly. It takes time to rebuild the strength + endurance.
Either way, it feels like it's getting there in terms of stamina. Even when my voice is a bit tired from a heavy vocal workout the night before (like it is now), it still passes and doesn't sound raspy or quiet at all.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on November 17, 2013, 05:28:21 PM
Post by: voodle on November 17, 2013, 05:28:21 PM
I regret posting here
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 17, 2013, 05:41:58 PM
Post by: sarahb on November 17, 2013, 05:41:58 PM
@voodle Umm, to me your voice sounds really good in all three post-op recordings. Yeah, the pitch is lower in the second post-op one but it still sounds naturally female to me. I think we need to stop focusing just on the frequency after surgery and go after a natural sounding voice instead. Abby has been making some breakthroughs in this regard lately as well, in my opinion. Really, your post-op recordings make me even more excited about my results if that voice is a disappointment for you, haha.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on November 17, 2013, 06:08:36 PM
Post by: voodle on November 17, 2013, 06:08:36 PM
I regret posting here
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 17, 2013, 06:25:52 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 17, 2013, 06:25:52 PM
What what how can you be unhappy with that result? Lol
You sound fantastic in these recordings. All of them, actually- even your pre op.
I don't know whether it's the difference in accent or what, but you sound completely female to me.
Neat that you were there in May- you and I are basically on the same recovery timetable. I'm sorry to hear that you aren't happy with your result, though. Were you expecting a much higher pitch?
My voice is constantly fluctuating in pitch capability and sometimes it feels as if it's going down. I think that's definitely a big mental part of the game.
I've done quite a lot of thinking about it, and I've come up with a possibility that seems to make sense. Granted, not every person will recover the same way.
Pre op, you start out with a low voice that you must focus and work with to maintain a high pitch. You are used to bringing your pitch up and fighting with it.
Immediately post op (when you are able to first talk) you have very limited range- almost monotone. Mentally, you become used to being able to relax your vocal cords because you have such limited range anyway.
Long into recovery (approaching 6 months) the range of your new voice starts to widen again as the vocal cords heal and adjust to their new shape (increased range both up AND down). Mentally this could create an issue... Maybe due to having such limited range for so long, the mind becomes lazy with applying the needed tension to sit well within the ideal part of new range. So instead, you revert back to using a lower, more familiar/relaxed pitch which is actually the very bottom end of your range.
I do find myself doing that sometimes.. Especially when talking to people like my mom over the phone for instance. It's weird. Sometimes I'll record my voice while talking to her and I sink it down to 175-180hz. She has a VERY dynamic speaking voice, though- and most of the time it's much lower than mine unless she is shrieking about something :D
You sound fantastic in these recordings. All of them, actually- even your pre op.
I don't know whether it's the difference in accent or what, but you sound completely female to me.
Neat that you were there in May- you and I are basically on the same recovery timetable. I'm sorry to hear that you aren't happy with your result, though. Were you expecting a much higher pitch?
My voice is constantly fluctuating in pitch capability and sometimes it feels as if it's going down. I think that's definitely a big mental part of the game.
I've done quite a lot of thinking about it, and I've come up with a possibility that seems to make sense. Granted, not every person will recover the same way.
Pre op, you start out with a low voice that you must focus and work with to maintain a high pitch. You are used to bringing your pitch up and fighting with it.
Immediately post op (when you are able to first talk) you have very limited range- almost monotone. Mentally, you become used to being able to relax your vocal cords because you have such limited range anyway.
Long into recovery (approaching 6 months) the range of your new voice starts to widen again as the vocal cords heal and adjust to their new shape (increased range both up AND down). Mentally this could create an issue... Maybe due to having such limited range for so long, the mind becomes lazy with applying the needed tension to sit well within the ideal part of new range. So instead, you revert back to using a lower, more familiar/relaxed pitch which is actually the very bottom end of your range.
I do find myself doing that sometimes.. Especially when talking to people like my mom over the phone for instance. It's weird. Sometimes I'll record my voice while talking to her and I sink it down to 175-180hz. She has a VERY dynamic speaking voice, though- and most of the time it's much lower than mine unless she is shrieking about something :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 17, 2013, 07:46:27 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 17, 2013, 07:46:27 PM
I can see why voodle was disappointed. As I understand it, all the voices in these recordings are basically with some voice training lessons applied, so i guess it is harder to judge what surgery did improve and what changed due to voice training.
I think in terms of the surgery though, it is quite ok to focus on the pitch. This is after all the main reason for this surgery - to increase pitch. All the other qualities are dony by the voice training and can be done without the surgery as well, right? So if i only would get a 20 Hz increase in pitch from such an expensive and straineous procedure, I would also feel a bit disappointed. I wonder one thing though - to get to the same pitch as before the surgery, do you have to put as much effort into that now, voodle? Because that is what I am thinking here - if you have a lower voice that is not changed by voice training (relaxed voice) and then usually do a changed voice at a higher pitch with resonance control and all that - but it takes an effort to do so. And then you have the surgery and speak in the same range as that second, higher, but not effortless voice, but this time you do not need to put effort into it - is that what happens? Or is it still as hard to get to that pitch range as pre-op?
I think in terms of the surgery though, it is quite ok to focus on the pitch. This is after all the main reason for this surgery - to increase pitch. All the other qualities are dony by the voice training and can be done without the surgery as well, right? So if i only would get a 20 Hz increase in pitch from such an expensive and straineous procedure, I would also feel a bit disappointed. I wonder one thing though - to get to the same pitch as before the surgery, do you have to put as much effort into that now, voodle? Because that is what I am thinking here - if you have a lower voice that is not changed by voice training (relaxed voice) and then usually do a changed voice at a higher pitch with resonance control and all that - but it takes an effort to do so. And then you have the surgery and speak in the same range as that second, higher, but not effortless voice, but this time you do not need to put effort into it - is that what happens? Or is it still as hard to get to that pitch range as pre-op?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on November 18, 2013, 04:39:07 AM
Post by: voodle on November 18, 2013, 04:39:07 AM
I regret posting here
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 18, 2013, 04:54:34 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 18, 2013, 04:54:34 AM
voodle- that's great to hear that you've made some progress! :D
I'm very curious to know what your maximum range is currently, from lowest possible frequency to the highest that you can produce?
I'm very curious to know what your maximum range is currently, from lowest possible frequency to the highest that you can produce?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 18, 2013, 05:24:59 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 18, 2013, 05:24:59 AM
Quotethe surgery has improved that so now my falsetto sounds female. This also means that my upper range can achieve lower pitches giving me a more typical vocal rangeOh that sounds like a great gain already. Pitch is something quite variable. I mean I can obviously now go from 130 (100 if I really drop resonance control too) up to 200 regularly, somewhere above 200 I am going into a falsetto and it sounds bad, if this changes it is already something. So if you are really much more comfortable now using the higher ranges or it is less effort to go there, that would be more or less the goal achieved as this basically means that the surgery made it easier to go into a range that is good with more comfort. Is that how it worked out for you or is it as much effort as before to speak and maintain the voice in the upper range?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 18, 2013, 04:41:09 PM
Post by: sarahb on November 18, 2013, 04:41:09 PM
Sooo, has anyone heard from kathyp lately? I'm kind of curious about what she's been up to and a little worried that we haven't heard from her.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 18, 2013, 05:18:29 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 18, 2013, 05:18:29 PM
I know things get better...it's only natural after any surgery. Some here have wonderful results. If much of this is psychological, then I am still confident of the outcome. My biggest fear has to be that my age will impede my result. Will I be able to get a really good voice at my age? I have had no "voice training - voice coaching" and I'm not going to start. I've always been naturally me and I'm not going to change that.
Whatever, this surgery has to be a winner.
Unfortunately not all surgeries go the way the patient (or surgeon) hopes, that is a fact of life and is born out by surgical statistics.
Some people (the medical profession mainly - LOL) would berate me for going to "Asia" to have surgery. But they can all get f#*^*@d as it is "them" who are so arrogant. The medical facilities in both Thailand and Korea were impeccable.
I'll take my chances with this surgery, it's better than any option here. :) ;)
Whatever, this surgery has to be a winner.
Unfortunately not all surgeries go the way the patient (or surgeon) hopes, that is a fact of life and is born out by surgical statistics.
Some people (the medical profession mainly - LOL) would berate me for going to "Asia" to have surgery. But they can all get f#*^*@d as it is "them" who are so arrogant. The medical facilities in both Thailand and Korea were impeccable.
I'll take my chances with this surgery, it's better than any option here. :) ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 22, 2013, 07:00:56 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 22, 2013, 07:00:56 PM
I'm going to be taking a little breather from these threads and possibly the boards altogether, so I encourage anyone who has questions about this surgery to contact Jessie at Yeson (english@yesonvc.com). She is a joy to communicate with and usually very fast to answer.. as well she talks directly to the surgeon himself!
It's been wonderful seeing how many people have been co-inspired to have this surgery, and I'll still be back from time to time to see how people are progressing. I just need a break from being in a position where I feel I must defend this procedure's credibility and real benefit time and time again.
If I may have one last recommendation, it is to listen to the doctor carefully and follow his directions TO THE TEE during recovery. That is the most important, because the surgical risk is incredibly low. Ask questions before you go through with it, and do not assume that this is a miracle procedure that magically gives you a female voice. The procedure will get you halfway there , but it still takes a lot of patience, practice, and effort to achieve a truly great result.
I hope it can help some of you find the voice of your dreams as it has for me. I'll be seeing ya 'round :)
It's been wonderful seeing how many people have been co-inspired to have this surgery, and I'll still be back from time to time to see how people are progressing. I just need a break from being in a position where I feel I must defend this procedure's credibility and real benefit time and time again.
If I may have one last recommendation, it is to listen to the doctor carefully and follow his directions TO THE TEE during recovery. That is the most important, because the surgical risk is incredibly low. Ask questions before you go through with it, and do not assume that this is a miracle procedure that magically gives you a female voice. The procedure will get you halfway there , but it still takes a lot of patience, practice, and effort to achieve a truly great result.
I hope it can help some of you find the voice of your dreams as it has for me. I'll be seeing ya 'round :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 22, 2013, 07:54:46 PM
Post by: Shantel on November 22, 2013, 07:54:46 PM
Bye Jennygirl, stay in touch hon!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 23, 2013, 01:15:04 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 23, 2013, 01:15:04 AM
Quote from: Shantel on November 22, 2013, 07:54:46 PM
Bye Jennygirl, stay in touch hon!
I will, and I'll be back :)
Thanks, Auntie Shan <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 23, 2013, 02:50:20 AM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 23, 2013, 02:50:20 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on November 18, 2013, 05:18:29 PM
I know things get better...it's only natural after any surgery. Some here have wonderful results. If much of this is psychological, then I am still confident of the outcome. My biggest fear has to be that my age will impede my result. Will I be able to get a really good voice at my age? I have had no "voice training - voice coaching" and I'm not going to start. I've always been naturally me and I'm not going to change that.
Whatever, this surgery has to be a winner.
Unfortunately not all surgeries go the way the patient (or surgeon) hopes, that is a fact of life and is born out by surgical statistics.
Some people (the medical profession mainly - LOL) would berate me for going to "Asia" to have surgery. But they can all get f#*^*@d as it is "them" who are so arrogant. The medical facilities in both Thailand and Korea were impeccable.
I'll take my chances with this surgery, it's better than any option here. :) ;)
I know I'm 55, but unless I have gone totally mad, my post here shows what I think of this surgery and how anyone can construe it as negative is beyond me. :o Having lived as a female for over 40 years...
I am now being told by others (who haven't) how I don't know how to behave like one?
Being female is all I have ever known. EVER...
My preference would be to take instructions from those older than me who have lived as female for longer than I have, not those who haven't.
The money I spent in Seoul on this surgery was well spent.
My only regret is I don't have a modern Suporn vagina. What I have is hideous to look at...I was butchered over 40 years ago. Those of us who are still alive (from that era) were also butchered because that is what surgeons did (to us) in those days :'(
Oh how I wish I could be one of the many girls who are turned into true females by Suporn today. You are all so lucky. So very fortunate.
You are so lucky :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindy on November 23, 2013, 02:59:47 AM
Post by: Cindy on November 23, 2013, 02:59:47 AM
I would like everyone to calm down please.
Let us take a deep breath and a break.
Thank You
Cindy
Let us take a deep breath and a break.
Thank You
Cindy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 23, 2013, 09:08:38 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 23, 2013, 09:08:38 AM
Quote from: Kiwi4Eva on November 23, 2013, 02:50:20 AM
I am now being told by others (who haven't) how I don't know how to behave like one?
Being female is all I have ever known. EVER...
I dont think anyone here really questions this.
I hope you will keep us posted on your recovery as well, Kiwi, in terms of what is happening to your voice as time goes by and as you do the exercises. :)
QuoteOh how I wish I could be one of the many girls who are turned into true females by Suporn today. You are all so lucky. So very fortunate.Yes to that. I really feel you there, though of course you probably was treated much less well than I was in the late 90ies, but that new technique by Suporn and others - it makes me want to cry everytime I think of it. Actually I do cry - but I also am happy that the younger ones now are able to get it. Just wish I had that chance... ah well... spilled milk and off topic here....
You are so lucky :)
hmm - though - I am wondering - is some surgeon working right now at a miraculous technique to alter voice that is superior to anything we know now? ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 23, 2013, 02:01:27 PM
Post by: Kiwi4Eva on November 23, 2013, 02:01:27 PM
Quote from: anjaq on November 23, 2013, 09:08:38 AM
hmm - though - I am wondering - is some surgeon working right now at a miraculous technique to alter voice that is superior to anything we know now? ;)
I think Yeson's surgery is worth every cent. You used to hear horror stories about people trying to surgically change their voice. Like playing Russian Roulette...not any longer :) A voice is so visual and no matter what, having a female voice has to be important.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Corra on November 23, 2013, 05:15:43 PM
Post by: Corra on November 23, 2013, 05:15:43 PM
Hi :)
I was wondering (i did read a lot of the pages of this topic) whether Jenny posted her post-op voice with no extra resonance etc... I.e post -op male voice? Just curious to hear the 'high pitch male' voice really :p
I was wondering (i did read a lot of the pages of this topic) whether Jenny posted her post-op voice with no extra resonance etc... I.e post -op male voice? Just curious to hear the 'high pitch male' voice really :p
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 25, 2013, 02:37:40 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 25, 2013, 02:37:40 AM
Hi all,
as always, I'm too late asking my question, as Jennie "officially" retired from this thread. She mentioned somewhere in the conversation that she used to sing back in her male voice days. I'd have liked to ask her whether she attempted singing post-surgery and how that went. I'm considering the procedure, even though I have a passable speaking voice. The reason is I'm a pro musician and very frequently have to sing. And it's an immensely laborious process to sing convincingly in a feminine voice and range when you have male vocal cords. You have to worry about so many things, like at what range to start adding breath to simulate "noting out" in the lower register, between what notes to put the transition and how to balance that, have good cord closure in the midrange and twang like crazy up top to add brilliance. And anything (the remaining major 3rd I can hit) higher than e'' (high midrange for sopranos, top for altos, above the tenor's high C) will result in a scream, anyway. To put it succinctly, it's hard technical work and definitely a killjoy for singing.
It would be so much easier if the cord fundamental were higher. Does anyone here have experience with singing post-op? I sincerely hope Jennie still takes a look at this thread and can answer my question, or anybody else who had the procedure and is musically inclined.
Regards,
Amy
as always, I'm too late asking my question, as Jennie "officially" retired from this thread. She mentioned somewhere in the conversation that she used to sing back in her male voice days. I'd have liked to ask her whether she attempted singing post-surgery and how that went. I'm considering the procedure, even though I have a passable speaking voice. The reason is I'm a pro musician and very frequently have to sing. And it's an immensely laborious process to sing convincingly in a feminine voice and range when you have male vocal cords. You have to worry about so many things, like at what range to start adding breath to simulate "noting out" in the lower register, between what notes to put the transition and how to balance that, have good cord closure in the midrange and twang like crazy up top to add brilliance. And anything (the remaining major 3rd I can hit) higher than e'' (high midrange for sopranos, top for altos, above the tenor's high C) will result in a scream, anyway. To put it succinctly, it's hard technical work and definitely a killjoy for singing.
It would be so much easier if the cord fundamental were higher. Does anyone here have experience with singing post-op? I sincerely hope Jennie still takes a look at this thread and can answer my question, or anybody else who had the procedure and is musically inclined.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 25, 2013, 11:34:15 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 25, 2013, 11:34:15 AM
Corra- unfortunately the phone that I had done all of my pre-op female voice recordings on the Voice Recorder app is now bricked from an unfortunate electrical accident. If I am ever able to recover it, I would be happy to do a direct comparison and post it.
AmyBerlin- I am slowly getting my singing voice back, and I think it will still take quite a bit of time to be fully realized. I now have enough control to sing powerfully and with decent resonance within the E3 - C5 range- I have been able to sing along with most tenor male voices as well as some lower female voices listening to radio on solo car missions. I'm not quite comfortable yet with the sound of it to be posting an example, though. It's not quite there. But, I know that the timbre of my voice while singing has definitely changed compared to what I remember.
I don't know that I'll ever have the super high pitch capability of a soprano, but I think alto range will definitely be in reach given another 6-18 months of recovery. My chest/head voice crossover continues to raise in pitch ever so slowly, but if I put a lot of force behind it I can "belt" waaaay higher than I used to be able to. It's the soft and gentle singing that needs work (and usually that is the most important!).
For a frame of reference, I used to sing baritone with a chest range of D2 - E5 on a good day. If no baritone part was available, I would always try for tenor but switch to bass if the score had many notes above middle C in the tenor part.
I hope this helps!
AmyBerlin- I am slowly getting my singing voice back, and I think it will still take quite a bit of time to be fully realized. I now have enough control to sing powerfully and with decent resonance within the E3 - C5 range- I have been able to sing along with most tenor male voices as well as some lower female voices listening to radio on solo car missions. I'm not quite comfortable yet with the sound of it to be posting an example, though. It's not quite there. But, I know that the timbre of my voice while singing has definitely changed compared to what I remember.
I don't know that I'll ever have the super high pitch capability of a soprano, but I think alto range will definitely be in reach given another 6-18 months of recovery. My chest/head voice crossover continues to raise in pitch ever so slowly, but if I put a lot of force behind it I can "belt" waaaay higher than I used to be able to. It's the soft and gentle singing that needs work (and usually that is the most important!).
For a frame of reference, I used to sing baritone with a chest range of D2 - E5 on a good day. If no baritone part was available, I would always try for tenor but switch to bass if the score had many notes above middle C in the tenor part.
I hope this helps!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jennifer@ on November 25, 2013, 10:08:54 PM
Post by: jennifer@ on November 25, 2013, 10:08:54 PM
In two weeks I'll be in Korea. I hope it all goes well...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on November 25, 2013, 10:11:23 PM
Post by: sarahb on November 25, 2013, 10:11:23 PM
Quote from: jennifer@ on November 25, 2013, 10:08:54 PM
In two weeks I'll be in Korea. I hope it all goes well...
Congratulations! You'll love the clinic and Jessie and Dr. Kim! I still miss Korea! Enjoy your time there :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Corra on November 26, 2013, 01:16:36 AM
Post by: Corra on November 26, 2013, 01:16:36 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 25, 2013, 11:34:15 AM
Corra- unfortunately the phone that I had done all of my pre-op female voice recordings on the Voice Recorder app is now bricked from an unfortunate electrical accident. If I am ever able to recover it, I would be happy to do a direct comparison and post it.
I hope this helps!
That would be super, but i meant like if you were to try and do your male voice now...? :p Also wanted to say you've been a great inspiration with going through with this surgery... When i'm at this point in transition, i expect to go to Yeson :D
xx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 26, 2013, 03:16:29 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 26, 2013, 03:16:29 AM
Quote from: Corra on November 26, 2013, 01:16:36 AM
That would be super, but i meant like if you were to try and do your male voice now...? :p Also wanted to say you've been a great inspiration with going through with this surgery... When i'm at this point in transition, i expect to go to Yeson :D
xx
I'm glad this thread has help you Corra! :) Thanks for your comment
As far as me trying to do a male voice now... I dunno if that would work- my low end is almost an entire octave higher (up from 80hz to 140hz). If I try to keep it at 140hz now or even 150hz, it sounds like a joke because I can't go any lower.. Put simply there's just no way without it sounding hilarious. I mean I guess I could try?? Haha
As well I have completely forgotten how to talk like a male. That also contributes to the joke factor.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 26, 2013, 05:09:47 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 26, 2013, 05:09:47 PM
Hehe - sounds great - not to be able to do that male voice again. Though what happens if you do not do resonance control - you still do that, right? VFS only changes pitch but not resonance, so I guess one could change resonance still. Dont know if that would really be able to make a voice like yours sound male though - its so great.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Corra on November 27, 2013, 01:07:33 AM
Post by: Corra on November 27, 2013, 01:07:33 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 26, 2013, 03:16:29 AM
I'm glad this thread has help you Corra! :) Thanks for your comment
As far as me trying to do a male voice now... I dunno if that would work- my low end is almost an entire octave higher (up from 80hz to 140hz). If I try to keep it at 140hz now or even 150hz, it sounds like a joke because I can't go any lower.. Put simply there's just no way without it sounding hilarious. I mean I guess I could try?? Haha
As well I have completely forgotten how to talk like a male. That also contributes to the joke factor.
Well that's great to know, kinda the dream scenario really, isn't it :D ditto Anjaq? Sorry, i keep asking questions!! :O
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 03:17:57 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 03:17:57 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 25, 2013, 11:34:15 AM
AmyBerlin- I am slowly getting my singing voice back, and I think it will still take quite a bit of time to be fully realized. I now have enough control to sing powerfully and with decent resonance within the E3 - C5 range- I have been able to sing along with most tenor male voices as well as some lower female voices listening to radio on solo car missions. I'm not quite comfortable yet with the sound of it to be posting an example, though. It's not quite there. But, I know that the timbre of my voice while singing has definitely changed compared to what I remember.
I don't know that I'll ever have the super high pitch capability of a soprano, but I think alto range will definitely be in reach given another 6-18 months of recovery. My chest/head voice crossover continues to raise in pitch ever so slowly, but if I put a lot of force behind it I can "belt" waaaay higher than I used to be able to. It's the soft and gentle singing that needs work (and usually that is the most important!).
Dear Jenny,
thanks for your kind and thorough reply, which is really helpful. I have a slightly higher voice than you used to have (about a whole step). So the surgery should definitely put me in the same ballpark. And regarding the range you have now, that's fantastic for just half a year of recovery.
And I wouldn't expect the point of chest/head crossover to change much. After all, according to one theory, it's largely determined by the distance of the air path from vocal cords to mouth opening, and only secondarily by vocal cord length/weight. But the way this crossover sounds should be directly influenced by the surgery, as the chest voice with the shortened vocal folds has much less of a chance for resonance build-up at the 1st overtone.
A friend of mine who's within commutable distance, and also is an experienced singer, had the surgery yesterday, and I'll be in contact with her through her recovery. I've also emailed Jessie, who sent me the paperwork she needs. The funds are in place. What I need to do now is find a time frame for the surgery. As a pro musician, I have to prepare the groups I'm working with that I'll be unavailable for singing for about half a year, and see that I pick a time frame that I don't have to do a lot of choir directing in (as the choir does sacred music, that means, one without religious holidays, read: late spring, which will give me a break until autumn). That enables me to hear my friend at her 4-month mark before I need to book my surgery. To me, that sounds like a plan. Korea, here I come!
Love,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 27, 2013, 03:34:59 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 27, 2013, 03:34:59 AM
Amy - this will be great to hear from someone who knows a lot about tones and voices because of being a pro singer and doing that surgery. If you can still sing at that level afterwards, it would be a very good argument for this surgery as this is what people usually say about VFS "you cannot sing, you have a restriced and hoarse voice afterwards". It would be cool if your frieind could prove them wrong. I hope she considers doing before and after recodings and sharing them. Is she in Korea now? then give her my best wishes for the recovery.
Just out of curiousity - are you really from Berlin or is that just a name? ;)
The shift in the breaking point from chest to head voice would be interesting. As I see it now, the VFS cuts off the lower frequencies mainly. As a result average and lowest pitch is going up and you basically have to talk at a higher average frequency to get the benefits from the surgery and still maintain pitch shifts. If that new speaking range then would be in the range where the voice breaks from chest to head voice and it is not possible to change that point as it is determined by vocal tract length - I can imagine this might be quite a problem then as you would be speaking partly in chest and partly in head voice depending on your pitch at that moment and if there is a break, it would be hard to do, so I think that break has to be either shifted or be trained to not sound like a break anymore. Do I get this right, Amy?
Just out of curiousity - are you really from Berlin or is that just a name? ;)
The shift in the breaking point from chest to head voice would be interesting. As I see it now, the VFS cuts off the lower frequencies mainly. As a result average and lowest pitch is going up and you basically have to talk at a higher average frequency to get the benefits from the surgery and still maintain pitch shifts. If that new speaking range then would be in the range where the voice breaks from chest to head voice and it is not possible to change that point as it is determined by vocal tract length - I can imagine this might be quite a problem then as you would be speaking partly in chest and partly in head voice depending on your pitch at that moment and if there is a break, it would be hard to do, so I think that break has to be either shifted or be trained to not sound like a break anymore. Do I get this right, Amy?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 06:14:32 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 06:14:32 AM
Dear Anjaq -- Yes, I am from Berlin. I'm just using this as a nickname in order not to divulge my last name.
I've got some MP3s of my friend's singing voice, and she probably has tons of material herself, so a direct comparison will be possible at a later date. She's in Seoul right now, and will be for the coming week.
And no, the break does not get in the way of speaking. Because the break (depending on your anatomy) is anywhere between 330 and 390 Hz, there's enough space between that and the 200-230 Hz range, which is the target speaking frequency for women. But from what I gather from post-op sound clips, what happens to the new chest voice after surgery is that its overtone spectrum is also altered to include more higher overtones and less of the lower overtones in which the male voice is so rich.
Thus the discrepancy between chest and head voice doesn't sound that harsh anymore, plus the head voice will "speak" better because of decreased moving mass in the vocal folds. Try it out on a guitar, and play the open B string (which is near feminine speaking pitch). Then play the same note on the G string at the 4th fret, on the D string at the 9th, on the A string at the 14th, and if your guitar allows, on the bottom E string at the 19th. You will see how the same note will progressively sound darker, but also tubbier and punchier. This is exactly the same phenomenon our voices are dealing with.
Myself, I've been using a central speaking frequency of around 200 Hz on a male vocal tract without damaging my voice for the last 20 years. However, it is quite tiring to speak or sing for a long time, and it requires quite drastic resonance modification to boost high and cut lower overtones to approximate the natural female sound. In modulation, I pass the break all the time. If you concentrate on speaking and singing with your jaw quite loose, and at not all too high a volume, you will notice that you can slide past the break quite easily. It feels as though your voice is squeezing past the break in the back of the throat (at least that's my subjective image). So, if I say "Hello, dear", the "-lo" will be above the break and the other two syllables below. If you know what I mean.
Regards,
Amy
I've got some MP3s of my friend's singing voice, and she probably has tons of material herself, so a direct comparison will be possible at a later date. She's in Seoul right now, and will be for the coming week.
And no, the break does not get in the way of speaking. Because the break (depending on your anatomy) is anywhere between 330 and 390 Hz, there's enough space between that and the 200-230 Hz range, which is the target speaking frequency for women. But from what I gather from post-op sound clips, what happens to the new chest voice after surgery is that its overtone spectrum is also altered to include more higher overtones and less of the lower overtones in which the male voice is so rich.
Thus the discrepancy between chest and head voice doesn't sound that harsh anymore, plus the head voice will "speak" better because of decreased moving mass in the vocal folds. Try it out on a guitar, and play the open B string (which is near feminine speaking pitch). Then play the same note on the G string at the 4th fret, on the D string at the 9th, on the A string at the 14th, and if your guitar allows, on the bottom E string at the 19th. You will see how the same note will progressively sound darker, but also tubbier and punchier. This is exactly the same phenomenon our voices are dealing with.
Myself, I've been using a central speaking frequency of around 200 Hz on a male vocal tract without damaging my voice for the last 20 years. However, it is quite tiring to speak or sing for a long time, and it requires quite drastic resonance modification to boost high and cut lower overtones to approximate the natural female sound. In modulation, I pass the break all the time. If you concentrate on speaking and singing with your jaw quite loose, and at not all too high a volume, you will notice that you can slide past the break quite easily. It feels as though your voice is squeezing past the break in the back of the throat (at least that's my subjective image). So, if I say "Hello, dear", the "-lo" will be above the break and the other two syllables below. If you know what I mean.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 08:18:09 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 08:18:09 AM
Hi all,
I should maybe clarify that the pitch difference of the crossover in male and female voices is just a minor third on average, according to Sadolin's textbook, and thus much smaller than the overall pitch difference of male and female voices. This implies that a relatively greater segment of the female range is in the head register. This is in part due to the somewhat shorter airway in females (which this surgery does not alter) and the different harmonic content and greater "give" of shorter, lighter vocal folds that allow for a greater approximation to the limit. So I'd probably expect the crossover point to move up a half or whole step, from a musical point of view.
Best wishes to all,
Amy
I should maybe clarify that the pitch difference of the crossover in male and female voices is just a minor third on average, according to Sadolin's textbook, and thus much smaller than the overall pitch difference of male and female voices. This implies that a relatively greater segment of the female range is in the head register. This is in part due to the somewhat shorter airway in females (which this surgery does not alter) and the different harmonic content and greater "give" of shorter, lighter vocal folds that allow for a greater approximation to the limit. So I'd probably expect the crossover point to move up a half or whole step, from a musical point of view.
Best wishes to all,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 27, 2013, 12:10:11 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 27, 2013, 12:10:11 PM
Amy, I think you are right. If I do nothing to modify resonance (which now means intentionally relaxing and lowering the position of my larynx) my break is somewhere around E4. In HS singing baritone, my break under the same circumstances was anything above D4... So that affirms what you say.
Conversely if use the larynx position that now feels normal for speech, the break occurs around F#4-G4.
I would not be surprised if that is a major contributor to why the outcome still sounds familiar to people instead of a completely different voice?
Also I wanted to thank you for sharing the bit about the guitar. I am sure I'm not alone saying that your insight here is greatly appreciated! Thank you!!
Conversely if use the larynx position that now feels normal for speech, the break occurs around F#4-G4.
I would not be surprised if that is a major contributor to why the outcome still sounds familiar to people instead of a completely different voice?
Also I wanted to thank you for sharing the bit about the guitar. I am sure I'm not alone saying that your insight here is greatly appreciated! Thank you!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 01:31:44 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 01:31:44 PM
Dear Jenny,
Precisely. According to Sadolin's theory, larynx position has a direct and immediate bearing on the upper limit of the chest register, so it can be modified to a certain degree. I can also verify that if I sing classical-type music, with low larynx position, I prepare the transition somewhere around B3, and by E4 I'm past the break. If however I sing the blues, I sometimes belt a G4 or Ab4 in full-blown chest register, with the larynx position at its upper limit. I hope to be able to continue both after surgery, with the transition maybe a full or half step higher.
Best wishes,
Amy
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 27, 2013, 12:10:11 PM
If I do nothing to modify resonance (which now means intentionally relaxing and lowering the position of my larynx) my break is somewhere around E4. In HS singing baritone, my break under the same circumstances was anything above D4... So that affirms what you say.
Conversely if use the larynx position that now feels normal for speech, the break occurs around F#4-G4.
Precisely. According to Sadolin's theory, larynx position has a direct and immediate bearing on the upper limit of the chest register, so it can be modified to a certain degree. I can also verify that if I sing classical-type music, with low larynx position, I prepare the transition somewhere around B3, and by E4 I'm past the break. If however I sing the blues, I sometimes belt a G4 or Ab4 in full-blown chest register, with the larynx position at its upper limit. I hope to be able to continue both after surgery, with the transition maybe a full or half step higher.
Best wishes,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 27, 2013, 03:18:24 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 27, 2013, 03:18:24 PM
Rargh, so interesting! I had no idea about the relation between vocal tract length to chest/head voice break. It makes a whole lot more sense now. Thanks for shedding some light!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 27, 2013, 05:36:16 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 27, 2013, 05:36:16 PM
Amy that is interesting though I did not understand all of it.
The guitar example - it measn simulating this procedure by shortening the length of the chord or is it something else you mean?
I totally get how trying to not have the break means to move the larynx in a different position.
So what do you think moves up that breaking point or crossover point from chest to head voice? Is it the change in resonance that we do by pulling up the larynx? Or is it something about the surgery itself?
I am also in Germany by the way. more to the south though, Amy. Since you are in Berlin, did you or your friend consider Dr Gross at the Charité? I looked at his paper and description and it sounded just like Yesons, but I got almost no information from there, email was not replied to, its hard to get in contact with patients and if I ask about it elsewhere i will just get anecdotal evicende that VFS in general or VFS at the Charité is not good - without proof why. So I wonder if he really does the same thing, what could be the difference etc...
The guitar example - it measn simulating this procedure by shortening the length of the chord or is it something else you mean?
I totally get how trying to not have the break means to move the larynx in a different position.
So what do you think moves up that breaking point or crossover point from chest to head voice? Is it the change in resonance that we do by pulling up the larynx? Or is it something about the surgery itself?
I am also in Germany by the way. more to the south though, Amy. Since you are in Berlin, did you or your friend consider Dr Gross at the Charité? I looked at his paper and description and it sounded just like Yesons, but I got almost no information from there, email was not replied to, its hard to get in contact with patients and if I ask about it elsewhere i will just get anecdotal evicende that VFS in general or VFS at the Charité is not good - without proof why. So I wonder if he really does the same thing, what could be the difference etc...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 28, 2013, 01:23:03 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 28, 2013, 01:23:03 AM
Dear Anja,
let me try to clarify: the guitar example was supposed to show how less vibrating mass (the B string, which is thin) creates a different overtone spectrum, namely one with more, and higher, overtones, than a large vibrating mass (the A or E strings) at the same frequency. This has to do with the stiffness (or inharmonicity) of the string material, and its inertia.
To bypass the break and generally to arrive at a less masculine chest voice, try to keep the lower jaw loose and don't force the tone, don't use very high volumes. This is what Cathrine Sadolin describes in her textbook "Complete Vocal Technique" as "Neutral mode" -- google that, you should find a description.
If you're singing loudly and have to deal with the break, then a higher larynx position will allow for a few more semitones before the break hits. But beware, singing in that area with male vocal folds usually generates a loud and quite masculine sounding tone if you're not being extra cautious. The surgery itself might displace the break for another semitone or two upwards, as Jenny describes.
Whereabouts in South Germany are you from? I was born in Bavaria. This, however, would lead to a private conversation that I don't know how to initiate in this forum. Maybe you can help me.
Regarding Dr. Gross's paper, do you mean Gross, M., Pitch-raising surgery in male-to-female transsexuals, J Voice 13: 246-250 (1999)? The technique indeed sounds identical to Kim's. But unless I've listened to a good bunch of his surgery results, I wouldn't submit to the procedure. My voice is too important to me. A nontrans colleague of mine, also a professional singer, had surgery with him to remove nodules and was very satisfied. I've been playing piano for her before and after, and it improved her voice a whole lot. Regarding trans surgeries, however, I have no idea of his results. There are no audio examples on the Net, no hard evidence that his procedure works and sounds good. OTOH, Kim's results are well-documented.
Regards,
Amy
let me try to clarify: the guitar example was supposed to show how less vibrating mass (the B string, which is thin) creates a different overtone spectrum, namely one with more, and higher, overtones, than a large vibrating mass (the A or E strings) at the same frequency. This has to do with the stiffness (or inharmonicity) of the string material, and its inertia.
To bypass the break and generally to arrive at a less masculine chest voice, try to keep the lower jaw loose and don't force the tone, don't use very high volumes. This is what Cathrine Sadolin describes in her textbook "Complete Vocal Technique" as "Neutral mode" -- google that, you should find a description.
If you're singing loudly and have to deal with the break, then a higher larynx position will allow for a few more semitones before the break hits. But beware, singing in that area with male vocal folds usually generates a loud and quite masculine sounding tone if you're not being extra cautious. The surgery itself might displace the break for another semitone or two upwards, as Jenny describes.
Whereabouts in South Germany are you from? I was born in Bavaria. This, however, would lead to a private conversation that I don't know how to initiate in this forum. Maybe you can help me.
Regarding Dr. Gross's paper, do you mean Gross, M., Pitch-raising surgery in male-to-female transsexuals, J Voice 13: 246-250 (1999)? The technique indeed sounds identical to Kim's. But unless I've listened to a good bunch of his surgery results, I wouldn't submit to the procedure. My voice is too important to me. A nontrans colleague of mine, also a professional singer, had surgery with him to remove nodules and was very satisfied. I've been playing piano for her before and after, and it improved her voice a whole lot. Regarding trans surgeries, however, I have no idea of his results. There are no audio examples on the Net, no hard evidence that his procedure works and sounds good. OTOH, Kim's results are well-documented.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 28, 2013, 01:48:30 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 28, 2013, 01:48:30 AM
Dear Anja,
since I'm living in Berlin and could easily attend a preliminary meeting without undue burden, I'd volunteer to call there and see if they can supply me with any postoperative recordings and/or details about the surgery they're offering, contacts to previous patients as well as the pricing of their procedure.
This would hopefully shed some light on this area as to what the market has to offer and if anything can be recommended or not.
Putting Gross's paper into perspective: he documented surgeries on 10 transwomen.
Their speaking frequency increased from 116.9±2.8 to 201.0±8.9 Hz, a difference of 84.1±8.5 Hz, that is, a generous major 6th. However, at the top, it didn't look all that good, range shrunk on average from 2.7 to 1.9 octaves. Only 1 person showed a range gain. The top note accessible was relatively unaffected in 3 patients, 4 showed considerable treble range gain, the remaining 3 lost range at the top (!). Voice loudness dropped considerably in 4 patients, was relatively unaffected in another 4, 2 showed loudness increases. However, we need to bear in mind that all of these surgeries were performed in 1996 or before, so they represent a dated procedure.
We shall see what they say when I speak to them personally.
Regards,
Amy
since I'm living in Berlin and could easily attend a preliminary meeting without undue burden, I'd volunteer to call there and see if they can supply me with any postoperative recordings and/or details about the surgery they're offering, contacts to previous patients as well as the pricing of their procedure.
This would hopefully shed some light on this area as to what the market has to offer and if anything can be recommended or not.
Putting Gross's paper into perspective: he documented surgeries on 10 transwomen.
Their speaking frequency increased from 116.9±2.8 to 201.0±8.9 Hz, a difference of 84.1±8.5 Hz, that is, a generous major 6th. However, at the top, it didn't look all that good, range shrunk on average from 2.7 to 1.9 octaves. Only 1 person showed a range gain. The top note accessible was relatively unaffected in 3 patients, 4 showed considerable treble range gain, the remaining 3 lost range at the top (!). Voice loudness dropped considerably in 4 patients, was relatively unaffected in another 4, 2 showed loudness increases. However, we need to bear in mind that all of these surgeries were performed in 1996 or before, so they represent a dated procedure.
We shall see what they say when I speak to them personally.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Kaylee on November 28, 2013, 02:42:34 AM
Post by: Kaylee on November 28, 2013, 02:42:34 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 28, 2013, 01:48:30 AM
Dear Anja,
since I'm living in Berlin and could easily attend a preliminary meeting without undue burden, I'd volunteer to call there and see if they can supply me with any postoperative recordings and/or details about the surgery they're offering, contacts to previous patients as well as the pricing of their procedure.
This would hopefully shed some light on this area as to what the market has to offer and if anything can be recommended or not.
Regards,
Amy
Hi Amy,
I would be interested in this as well, as I'm in the UK the option to get VFS in Germany instead of Korea would save me a lot of cash (I could possibly even commute by car/train if I wanted to cut out a lengthy hotel stay!).
I'm sure many others in UK/Europe would be interested in a clinic that can perform Yeson style basically on our doorstep!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 28, 2013, 05:17:59 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 28, 2013, 05:17:59 AM
Dear all,
finally I've reached someone at Charité, and set an appointment for mid-February(!). We'll see what they'll have to say.
The information on the website is partially erroneous: e.g. the telephone number +49-30-84452449 is wrong, +49-30-450555125 is correct.
Regards,
Amy
finally I've reached someone at Charité, and set an appointment for mid-February(!). We'll see what they'll have to say.
The information on the website is partially erroneous: e.g. the telephone number +49-30-84452449 is wrong, +49-30-450555125 is correct.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: megan2929 on November 28, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
Post by: megan2929 on November 28, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
Jenny: I just wanted to say that you sound like Alyson Hannigan in your Yeson video. Really amazing transformation from your old voice and now you've got me seriously considering this surgery too. I'm only on the fence about timing. I know this surgery would be a huge quality of life improvement, but I am tentatively scheduled for SRS in February and I'm debating which to do first. Ideally I think I'd like the voice surgery first but I worry that when they intubate me for my SRS surgery a few months later that they might damage my throat. On the other hand, if I have SRS first, I probably won't feel up to traveling to Korea for quite awhile so I'd be pushing off the voice surgery for a long time (maybe a year from now). Ack. decisions, decisions.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
Great, Amy!
I have the same concerns there about Dr Gross - they do not provide audio samples. the study was interesting but the results were recorded much less than a year post op. I think it was 2 months or so? So no wonder there was still a lot of voice missing. He also reports that the patients who did voice training afterwards regained their loudness.
Still no audio samples is bad. I sent an email and got no reply at all. But of course - paying $7000 plus travel just to do the same thing but with audio samples is kind of bugging me. But well - I am like you - rather be safe than sorry. My voice trainer said that the ones she heard who were in Berlin for VFS all had some sort of hoarseness or breathyness in the voice. Dont know if that was also within the 1 year. But I am happy that you are volunteering to find out more while knowing about Yeson!
That tip to get rid of the break into the head voice - it totally works and it sorks great in conjuction with my voice training lessons who are focussing on being more relaxed in the jaw and such. But it only lasts for a while after doing these exercises.
It sounds like you know a lot about voice and still consider this surgery, even after 20 years, thats 5 years more than me. I cannot keep 200 Hz though, it was too straining and left me with some voice issues.
I will write you a PN as well
I have the same concerns there about Dr Gross - they do not provide audio samples. the study was interesting but the results were recorded much less than a year post op. I think it was 2 months or so? So no wonder there was still a lot of voice missing. He also reports that the patients who did voice training afterwards regained their loudness.
Still no audio samples is bad. I sent an email and got no reply at all. But of course - paying $7000 plus travel just to do the same thing but with audio samples is kind of bugging me. But well - I am like you - rather be safe than sorry. My voice trainer said that the ones she heard who were in Berlin for VFS all had some sort of hoarseness or breathyness in the voice. Dont know if that was also within the 1 year. But I am happy that you are volunteering to find out more while knowing about Yeson!
That tip to get rid of the break into the head voice - it totally works and it sorks great in conjuction with my voice training lessons who are focussing on being more relaxed in the jaw and such. But it only lasts for a while after doing these exercises.
It sounds like you know a lot about voice and still consider this surgery, even after 20 years, thats 5 years more than me. I cannot keep 200 Hz though, it was too straining and left me with some voice issues.
I will write you a PN as well
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 02:48:44 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 02:48:44 AM
Dear Anja,
I just got finished composing a lengthy reply to your message, then the system reset the compose window. So I'll try again, see if I can remember everything and compose this message in an editor window, for safety's sake. For clarity, please let me answer your posting bit-by-bit.
I'm not sure if we're referring to the same study. Mine (literature quote above) was just 5 pages of text, without any recorded results. Maybe you can send me a link?
Yes, it's better to play it safe. We've only got one voice, so we should give it the best treatment possible.
I can't make it to Yeson before May anyway, for scheduling reasons. So I'd need to book the surgery in March. Having the appointment with Gross in mid-February provides ample time to balance the pros and cons and arrive at an informed decision.
It takes a while before speaking with a loose jaw becomes second nature. But it will. The loose lower jaw also eliminates much of the masculine sound of the chest register, so it's a worthwhile endeavor to learn the technique.
Well, a lot of that has to do with who I am as a person. Like many of us, I was aware of my gender dissonance from early childhood, and vocal about it. However, the topic was always rigorously silenced in my family. I also took up music at an early age, starting piano lessons at 5. As a child, I used to sing a lot, and, dare I say, very well. So when male puberty struck, it was absolutely horrific – this was the 80s, with no medical support network in place and literally no-one to turn to. So when my voice deepened, I stopped singing entirely (until my 30s). I ended up with a good baritone, but the voice never really felt like it belonged to me. And to this day, I use it merely as a working, albeit crude and imperfect tool to communicate with the world. It's like trying to knit with Chinese chopsticks for needles. It works, but the tips are too blunt, the taper is working against you and the stitches keep falling off the far end – AARGH! So I studied everything in my grasp about voice, singing and speech in order to still maintain a feminine speaking voice despite the hormonal changes.
I finished high school at 19, in 1994, and moved into my own place where I was safe to explore and finally able to do my research to tackle my transition. The Internet was still far from being a mass medium, so research was still tedious. In fall 1996 I went full-time, receiving HRT in early 1997, and SRS in Munich in early 1998. That was all the treatment available back then, and word about Ousterhout's new FFS had just begun to spread. Being young and reasonably good-looking back then, I skipped FFS, but would later follow through with it with Noorman van der Dussen in Antwerp, when the first (unflattering) signs of not being a spring chicken any more began to appear.
Through this, my feminine voice has served me well, I never had problems passing on the phone and such. But as I get older, it becomes more and more strenuous to maintain the voice quality I've gotten used to. And plus, as my business as a musician expanded, and I had to communicate my musical ideas to singers and choirs, I had to take up singing again. Applying the full force of my armamentarium of vocal technique to the process, I was able to morph my natural baritone into a mediocre alto to – what? – direct a choir in stealth mode. But it's a daunting process, you put in twice the effort for half the result. And you never quite lose the anxiety that something would go wrong, that the voice would slip or break. So I'd give the world for a safe surgical option to fix just that.
I was able to receive it, but not to reply to it. Something seems to be desperately wrong with my account, I'm not allowed to answer or write personal messages, I can't use an avatar picture, and have only very limited choices in terms of profile settings. Maybe one of you reading this message is a moderator and can help me out. Thanks in advance!
For the time being, Anja, please send me another private message with your email address included, in order for us to communicate that way in the meantime. Thanks!
Hugs,
Amy
I just got finished composing a lengthy reply to your message, then the system reset the compose window. So I'll try again, see if I can remember everything and compose this message in an editor window, for safety's sake. For clarity, please let me answer your posting bit-by-bit.
Quote from: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
the study was interesting but the results were recorded much less than a year post op.
I'm not sure if we're referring to the same study. Mine (literature quote above) was just 5 pages of text, without any recorded results. Maybe you can send me a link?
Quote from: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
But of course - paying $7000 plus travel just to do the same thing but with audio samples is kind of bugging me. But well - I am like you - rather be safe than sorry.
Yes, it's better to play it safe. We've only got one voice, so we should give it the best treatment possible.
Quote from: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
But I am happy that you are volunteering to find out more while knowing about Yeson!
I can't make it to Yeson before May anyway, for scheduling reasons. So I'd need to book the surgery in March. Having the appointment with Gross in mid-February provides ample time to balance the pros and cons and arrive at an informed decision.
Quote from: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
That tip to get rid of the break into the head voice - it totally works [...] But it only lasts for a while after doing these exercises.
It takes a while before speaking with a loose jaw becomes second nature. But it will. The loose lower jaw also eliminates much of the masculine sound of the chest register, so it's a worthwhile endeavor to learn the technique.
Quote from: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
It sounds like you know a lot about voice and still consider this surgery, even after 20 years, thats 5 years more than me.
Well, a lot of that has to do with who I am as a person. Like many of us, I was aware of my gender dissonance from early childhood, and vocal about it. However, the topic was always rigorously silenced in my family. I also took up music at an early age, starting piano lessons at 5. As a child, I used to sing a lot, and, dare I say, very well. So when male puberty struck, it was absolutely horrific – this was the 80s, with no medical support network in place and literally no-one to turn to. So when my voice deepened, I stopped singing entirely (until my 30s). I ended up with a good baritone, but the voice never really felt like it belonged to me. And to this day, I use it merely as a working, albeit crude and imperfect tool to communicate with the world. It's like trying to knit with Chinese chopsticks for needles. It works, but the tips are too blunt, the taper is working against you and the stitches keep falling off the far end – AARGH! So I studied everything in my grasp about voice, singing and speech in order to still maintain a feminine speaking voice despite the hormonal changes.
I finished high school at 19, in 1994, and moved into my own place where I was safe to explore and finally able to do my research to tackle my transition. The Internet was still far from being a mass medium, so research was still tedious. In fall 1996 I went full-time, receiving HRT in early 1997, and SRS in Munich in early 1998. That was all the treatment available back then, and word about Ousterhout's new FFS had just begun to spread. Being young and reasonably good-looking back then, I skipped FFS, but would later follow through with it with Noorman van der Dussen in Antwerp, when the first (unflattering) signs of not being a spring chicken any more began to appear.
Through this, my feminine voice has served me well, I never had problems passing on the phone and such. But as I get older, it becomes more and more strenuous to maintain the voice quality I've gotten used to. And plus, as my business as a musician expanded, and I had to communicate my musical ideas to singers and choirs, I had to take up singing again. Applying the full force of my armamentarium of vocal technique to the process, I was able to morph my natural baritone into a mediocre alto to – what? – direct a choir in stealth mode. But it's a daunting process, you put in twice the effort for half the result. And you never quite lose the anxiety that something would go wrong, that the voice would slip or break. So I'd give the world for a safe surgical option to fix just that.
Quote from: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
I will write you a PN as well
I was able to receive it, but not to reply to it. Something seems to be desperately wrong with my account, I'm not allowed to answer or write personal messages, I can't use an avatar picture, and have only very limited choices in terms of profile settings. Maybe one of you reading this message is a moderator and can help me out. Thanks in advance!
For the time being, Anja, please send me another private message with your email address included, in order for us to communicate that way in the meantime. Thanks!
Hugs,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 03:08:45 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 03:08:45 AM
Dear Megan,
Yeson's patient information brochure states there should be a waiting period of 2 months before and after VFS without further procedures under general anesthesia.
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: megan2929 on November 28, 2013, 05:56:45 PM
Ideally I think I'd like the voice surgery first but I worry that when they intubate me for my SRS surgery a few months later that they might damage my throat.
Yeson's patient information brochure states there should be a waiting period of 2 months before and after VFS without further procedures under general anesthesia.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:56:39 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:56:39 AM
Hi all,
a quick addendum to my Reply #834 above: I was notified that my account problems were due to not having posted 15 comments yet. So everything's in order, let's keep the conversation going.
Amy
a quick addendum to my Reply #834 above: I was notified that my account problems were due to not having posted 15 comments yet. So everything's in order, let's keep the conversation going.
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 08:10:02 AM
Post by: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 08:10:02 AM
Quote from: anjaq on November 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
That tip to get rid of the break into the head voice - it totally works and it sorks great in conjuction with my voice training lessons who are focussing on being more relaxed in the jaw and such. But it only lasts for a while after doing these exercises.
If this has been explained in a PM, would you mind explaining this again on this forum? It sounds rather interesting and maybe useful for singing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 08:34:42 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 08:34:42 AM
Dear Nicolette,
It is extremely useful for singing. And the discussion was here in this thread. But, to reiterate and expand: If you are at a soft to medium volume, keep your lower jaw loose and you can slide past the break. Right at the pitch when you pass it, you can feel the tone constrict a tiny bit at the back of the throat, but this is barely audible. If you want an edgier, louder tone, there's also a trick to bypass the break: imagine you were holding your breath before you head for the break and keep this "hold" up as you go up or down past the break. This will also slide you past. The tone might get a little bit of a whining, pleading quality the first few times you do it, but this is easily controlled. And if you need super high volume, think more of a scream, not a shout. Screams slide past the break, shouts don't.
And, on an OT note: are you quoting Rabbi Waldenberg's responsum in your signature, in which he recommended that MtF transpeople substitute "shehafchani l'isha" in the appropriate location of the Morning Prayers – "Blessed are you, Lord, [...], who has made me into a woman"? Not that I find the wording totally fitting, but it's a good sign that slowly but steadily, even the Orthodox world is coming around. Keeping Joy Ladin on board is cause for hope. And joy. Chanukkah sameach, by the way!
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 08:10:02 AM
If this has been explained in a PM, would you mind explaining this again on this forum? It sounds rather interesting and maybe useful for singing.
It is extremely useful for singing. And the discussion was here in this thread. But, to reiterate and expand: If you are at a soft to medium volume, keep your lower jaw loose and you can slide past the break. Right at the pitch when you pass it, you can feel the tone constrict a tiny bit at the back of the throat, but this is barely audible. If you want an edgier, louder tone, there's also a trick to bypass the break: imagine you were holding your breath before you head for the break and keep this "hold" up as you go up or down past the break. This will also slide you past. The tone might get a little bit of a whining, pleading quality the first few times you do it, but this is easily controlled. And if you need super high volume, think more of a scream, not a shout. Screams slide past the break, shouts don't.
And, on an OT note: are you quoting Rabbi Waldenberg's responsum in your signature, in which he recommended that MtF transpeople substitute "shehafchani l'isha" in the appropriate location of the Morning Prayers – "Blessed are you, Lord, [...], who has made me into a woman"? Not that I find the wording totally fitting, but it's a good sign that slowly but steadily, even the Orthodox world is coming around. Keeping Joy Ladin on board is cause for hope. And joy. Chanukkah sameach, by the way!
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 10:30:59 AM
Post by: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 10:30:59 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 08:34:42 AM
Dear Nicolette,
It is extremely useful for singing. And the discussion was here in this thread. But, to reiterate and expand: If you are at a soft to medium volume, keep your lower jaw loose and you can slide past the break. Right at the pitch when you pass it, you can feel the tone constrict a tiny bit at the back of the throat, but this is barely audible. If you want an edgier, louder tone, there's also a trick to bypass the break: imagine you were holding your breath before you head for the break and keep this "hold" up as you go up or down past the break. This will also slide you past. The tone might get a little bit of a whining, pleading quality the first few times you do it, but this is easily controlled. And if you need super high volume, think more of a scream, not a shout. Screams slide past the break, shouts don't.
Wow, thanks. I have postponed a piano music exam because it requires sight
edit: oops, I meant sight-singing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 10:48:36 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 10:48:36 AM
Quote from: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 10:30:59 AM
No way! [goosebumps] I never thought anyone would be that perceptive! This always stuck in my mind when I was taught religious education at school. The irony is that I'm now man-made. Of course, Liberal Judaism has always been very accepting. My liberal rabbi even wanted to offer me financial support when I was transitioning in '94. I didn't know about Joy Ladin, but I do now. Thanks. And yes, Happy Hanukkah! You made my day.
Thanks for the kind words! Shabbat shalom!
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 11:01:56 AM
Post by: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 10:48:36 AM
Thanks for the kind words! Shabbat shalom!
No problem! I read these threads in case someone gives definitive proof that VFS improves singing range and abilities. It would be interesting if you were to have this surgery to give first-hand experience, given your background.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 02:12:52 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 02:12:52 PM
So Amy I have a question for you... You said when you are singing blues you sometimes belt a G4... What would be the equivalent belt for female voice? Would it be higher than a minor third more or would it be a Bb4? I feel like some Tenors can go even go as high as C5 (belting)?
Thank you for joining the thread and offering your expertise :)
Thank you for joining the thread and offering your expertise :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 02:48:44 AMYes we are - its the one mentioned at Dr Gross website from 1999. They did not provide actual audio recordings, but they did in the study mention that they did followups and the data listed in the study is IIRc of only a few months post op - the tables there with the decreased vocal range and loudness. In the very last paragraph they mention that the patients who went through voice training afterwards regained their loudness.
I'm not sure if we're referring to the same study. Mine (literature quote above) was just 5 pages of text, without any recorded results. Maybe you can send me a link?
QuoteIt takes a while before speaking with a loose jaw becomes second nature. But it will. The loose lower jaw also eliminates much of the masculine sound of the chest register, so it's a worthwhile endeavor to learn the technique.Yes, sounds great. I am looking forward to have such improvements.
Quote[...]As a child, I used to sing a lot, and, dare I say, very well. So when male puberty struck, it was absolutely horrific – this was the 80s, with no medical support network in place and literally no-one to turn to.I feel you - loosing my voice was one of the most horrific experiences. I never talked much and did not sing a lot but with puberty that became worse.
To the next section i have to say - "hello sister!" - we should PM as soon as it works. Because I can almost copy your dates. I finished school in 1994 as well, Internet was not that great by then and WFT - I chose the name "Amy" for a while even (still carry it in my passport but not as first name). In all other aspects you were 2 years ahead - I came out in 1997, got HRT and went fulltime in 98, got my SRS in Munich as well in 2000. This is quite spooky!
QuoteThat was all the treatment available back then, and word about Ousterhout's new FFS had just begun to spread. Being young and reasonably good-looking back then, I skipped FFS, but would later follow through with it with Noorman van der Dussen in Antwerp, when the first (unflattering) signs of not being a spring chicken any more began to appear.Yes i remember Dr O being the only one doing this and hearing of him. i only heard that it is more common in this year though, so I never did that.
QuoteThrough this, my feminine voice has served me well, I never had problems passing on the phone and such. But as I get older, it becomes more and more strenuous to maintain the voice quality I've gotten used to. And plus, as my business as a musician expandedYeah I get that same thing. I have now "functional dysphonia" which means basically I overstrained my voice in order to maintain it sounding as it did. It served me well for like 5 years and then it started to loose and get harder. Which is why i am here now.
You can reply to my PN maybe when it comes to our stories ;) - and keep the VFS stuff for this thread to not bomb it ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 04:32:01 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 04:32:01 PM
Dear Nicolette,
Well, VFS surely will not improve singing abilities. If you can't hold a tune now, you won't be able to afterwards either. And I would expect a narrowing of the range, as the range loss at the bottom will most certainly outweigh the range increase at the top, as the vocal folds are only being shortened, not thinned out, which would increase their ability to sound high frequencies. Given the physics of the process, I'd factor in a loss of about a 4th, but with the benefit of having a fully functional head voice. In other words, more of a functional gain than a range increase.
And yet and still, I must say, I'm really tempted to have the surgery by now :-)
Amy
Quote from: Nicolette on November 29, 2013, 11:01:56 AM
No problem! I read these threads in case someone gives definitive proof that VFS improves singing range and abilities. It would be interesting if you were to have this surgery to give first-hand experience, given your background.
Well, VFS surely will not improve singing abilities. If you can't hold a tune now, you won't be able to afterwards either. And I would expect a narrowing of the range, as the range loss at the bottom will most certainly outweigh the range increase at the top, as the vocal folds are only being shortened, not thinned out, which would increase their ability to sound high frequencies. Given the physics of the process, I'd factor in a loss of about a 4th, but with the benefit of having a fully functional head voice. In other words, more of a functional gain than a range increase.
And yet and still, I must say, I'm really tempted to have the surgery by now :-)
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
Well honestly the total range is not that relevant, is it? i mean when am I ever going to use 760 Hz which is my highest not eI can reach now? Would it hurt me if that would be only 700 Hz or benefit me if it is 780 Hz? i dont think so, the functional gain would be much more desireable - meaning to be able to use higher frequencies more easily and without thinking while speaking and singing.
What worries me a bit is:
What worries me a bit is:
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 27, 2013, 06:14:32 AMI tested my breaking point and it is starting at the 290 Hz range and goes up to something like 350 Hz or so. So it is lower and more close to the speaking range. If I would speak at lets say 220 Hz and then do some pitch variation, I most likely would hit it. :\
And no, the break does not get in the way of speaking. Because the break (depending on your anatomy) is anywhere between 330 and 390 Hz, there's enough space between that and the 200-230 Hz range, which is the target speaking frequency for women.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 04:50:22 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 04:50:22 PM
Dear Jenny,
A better question is: what is "belting"? Pushing "chest voice" (which Sadolin calls "Overdrive") to its upper limit? She cautions not to try C5 or higher with a male voice, and D5/Eb5 or higher with a female voice. In any case, approximating this limit will result in a very loud and aggressive sound. As far as I'm informed, the classical tenor's high C is produced with lots of twang instead of Overdrive (another way to get a full and edgy sound at the top end). The highest I've ever had to go, and in fact, the highest I've ever been able to go in Overdrive was an A4 (on the word "leave" in the background choir alto part of Joe Cocker's "You Can Leave Your Hat On" in the key of C; the pitch sequence for these syllables is F4-F4-A4-D4-F4-E4). Bb4 and B4 are totally elusive for me, completely out of reach.
Hope this helps,
Amy
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 02:12:52 PM
So Amy I have a question for you... You said when you are singing blues you sometimes belt a G4... What would be the equivalent belt for female voice? Would it be higher than a minor third more or would it be a Bb4? I feel like some Tenors can go even go as high as C5 (belting)?
A better question is: what is "belting"? Pushing "chest voice" (which Sadolin calls "Overdrive") to its upper limit? She cautions not to try C5 or higher with a male voice, and D5/Eb5 or higher with a female voice. In any case, approximating this limit will result in a very loud and aggressive sound. As far as I'm informed, the classical tenor's high C is produced with lots of twang instead of Overdrive (another way to get a full and edgy sound at the top end). The highest I've ever had to go, and in fact, the highest I've ever been able to go in Overdrive was an A4 (on the word "leave" in the background choir alto part of Joe Cocker's "You Can Leave Your Hat On" in the key of C; the pitch sequence for these syllables is F4-F4-A4-D4-F4-E4). Bb4 and B4 are totally elusive for me, completely out of reach.
Hope this helps,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
Thanks that does help! I guess I should be pretty happy with my break being around the F#4/G4 area!
Does your voice follow in the Tenor range? I used to sing Baritone.
Does your voice follow in the Tenor range? I used to sing Baritone.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:18:56 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:18:56 PM
Dear Anja,
yes, we should DEFINITELY PM. It should work now, just finished my 15. posting before. Not tonight though, it's getting late here.
I had to. My looks started deteriorating rapidly and masculine bone structure started to emerge when I hit 35.
I hear you. And I don't want my voice to conk out on me by the time I'm 50, so I should better seek professional help while it's still working as well as it is.
This is true for daily life, definitely. My absolute limit on a good day is 830Hz, or a G#5. But there are hardly any musical uses for it, and definitely no speaking uses. I've used it once in an ending cadenza on a recording, buried somewhere in the mix, but that's about everything that note ever was good for. The functional gain of a well-speaking midrange would definitely outweigh that. But losing several 100 Hz at the top (as was the case in one of Gross's cases) would hurt deeply.
I think you're talking about larynx position variation. Jenny and I exchanged messages on that this afternoon. With a low larynx position, the break occurs at much lower pitch than with a high larynx position. But as Jenny pointed out, after the surgery you tend to use a higher larynx position anyway to match the new voice's resonance, so the break rises in proportion and gets out of the way of speaking. Plus (and Jenny, you have the new voice already, so please correct me if my conjectures are wrong), the higher overall pitch will lessen the contrast in sound between chest and head voice and make the transition much easier than it used to be with the old voice. Even now, I'm continually going back and forth between the two with the old voice, so why shouldn't I post-surgery, when it's even easier?
Love,
Amy
yes, we should DEFINITELY PM. It should work now, just finished my 15. posting before. Not tonight though, it's getting late here.
Quote from: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Yes i remember Dr O being the only one doing this and hearing of him. i only heard that it is more common in this year though, so I never did that.
I had to. My looks started deteriorating rapidly and masculine bone structure started to emerge when I hit 35.
Quote from: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Yeah I get that same thing. I have now "functional dysphonia" which means basically I overstrained my voice in order to maintain it sounding as it did. It served me well for like 5 years and then it started to loose and get harder. Which is why i am here now.
I hear you. And I don't want my voice to conk out on me by the time I'm 50, so I should better seek professional help while it's still working as well as it is.
Quote from: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
Well honestly the total range is not that relevant, is it? i mean when am I ever going to use 760 Hz which is my highest not eI can reach now? Would it hurt me if that would be only 700 Hz or benefit me if it is 780 Hz? i dont think so, the functional gain would be much more desireable - meaning to be able to use higher frequencies more easily and without thinking while speaking and singing.
This is true for daily life, definitely. My absolute limit on a good day is 830Hz, or a G#5. But there are hardly any musical uses for it, and definitely no speaking uses. I've used it once in an ending cadenza on a recording, buried somewhere in the mix, but that's about everything that note ever was good for. The functional gain of a well-speaking midrange would definitely outweigh that. But losing several 100 Hz at the top (as was the case in one of Gross's cases) would hurt deeply.
Quote from: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
What worries me a bit is:I tested my breaking point and it is starting at the 290 Hz range and goes up to something like 350 Hz or so.
I think you're talking about larynx position variation. Jenny and I exchanged messages on that this afternoon. With a low larynx position, the break occurs at much lower pitch than with a high larynx position. But as Jenny pointed out, after the surgery you tend to use a higher larynx position anyway to match the new voice's resonance, so the break rises in proportion and gets out of the way of speaking. Plus (and Jenny, you have the new voice already, so please correct me if my conjectures are wrong), the higher overall pitch will lessen the contrast in sound between chest and head voice and make the transition much easier than it used to be with the old voice. Even now, I'm continually going back and forth between the two with the old voice, so why shouldn't I post-surgery, when it's even easier?
Love,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:21:38 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:21:38 PM
Dear Jenny,
Baritone here, too. E2-G4 in chest voice, extendable up to G#5 with head voice use.
With functional voice modification, I'm a dysfunctional alto ;-(
Amy
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
Does your voice follow in the Tenor range? I used to sing Baritone.
Baritone here, too. E2-G4 in chest voice, extendable up to G#5 with head voice use.
With functional voice modification, I'm a dysfunctional alto ;-(
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 05:49:58 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 05:49:58 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:18:56 PMThis is what drives me to this now too. It is also why I did for a while consider FFS even - This is the time to do such things , not with 50 or 60. Because it only gets harder and the earlier is done the longer one has the benefits of it as well. If it has to be done anyways at some point. And i dont want to be a granny with a guy voice because I cannot remember my voice training lessons or such ;)
I hear you. And I don't want my voice to conk out on me by the time I'm 50, so I should better seek professional help while it's still working as well as it is.
QuoteI think you're talking about larynx position variation. Jenny and I exchanged messages on that this afternoon. With a low larynx position, the break occurs at much lower pitch than with a high larynx position. But as Jenny pointed out, after the surgery you tend to use a higher larynx position anyway to match the new voice's resonance, so the break rises in proportion and gets out of the way of speaking.Hmm - i think i am already speaking mostly with my larynx in an elevated position. Its how I get to the voice I have now compared to my pre-transition voice. So I am not sure I would gain much there. :\ - its sad really. I had to start with such bad prerequesites - low pitch, strong resonance. i had to change a lot to get to where I am now and this is what causes the strain. But if i cannot elevate the breaking point or make it go away somehow, I may run into problems with it. 300 Hz is in the regular pitch variation at a 220 Hz F0. But then again, I will not be at 220 Hz F0 after a VFS anyways. It raises pitch by ~75 Hz, which would give me 175 if I take the original voice pitch as a reference.
I am looking forward to the PM
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 07:25:29 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 07:25:29 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 05:18:56 PM
I think you're talking about larynx position variation. Jenny and I exchanged messages on that this afternoon. With a low larynx position, the break occurs at much lower pitch than with a high larynx position. But as Jenny pointed out, after the surgery you tend to use a higher larynx position anyway to match the new voice's resonance, so the break rises in proportion and gets out of the way of speaking. Plus (and Jenny, you have the new voice already, so please correct me if my conjectures are wrong), the higher overall pitch will lessen the contrast in sound between chest and head voice and make the transition much easier than it used to be with the old voice. Even now, I'm continually going back and forth between the two with the old voice, so why shouldn't I post-surgery, when it's even easier?
Love,
Amy
I think you are right on the money with the larynx position. To talk with it in a down position sounds silly altogether.
I wonder what makes that chest/head transition more flowy? Perhaps from the shorter vocal cords?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on November 30, 2013, 12:38:29 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on November 30, 2013, 12:38:29 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 29, 2013, 04:32:01 PMas the vocal folds are only being shortened, not thinned out, which would increase their ability to sound high frequencies.Ivanchenko (http://lorphonplus.ru/) (an ENT surgeon in Moscow) both ties vocal folds together like Yeson does (though the stitch is not as far away from the anterior end as Yeson did for Jenny) and thins out vocal folds with Coblator device. Also, he can combine that with Adam's apple reduction (incision over it). $2000 for everything for Russians, I don't know about foreigners.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 30, 2013, 02:14:29 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 30, 2013, 02:14:29 AM
Dear Anja,
it's very hard to give you any pointers not having heard your voice. But a 100 Hz F0 is exceedingly low. You're probably a bass, range-wise. And this makes it hard to give you any tips, because I can't relate firsthand to how your voice feels for you. And this also explains why you put such incredible strain on your voice to speak, because you need to compensate much more than I ever had to. In comparison, my F0 is 130 Hz, actually more toward the upper end of the male range, so I only need to push it up by a fifth to be in safe female territory, whereas for you it's almost an octave.
Love,
Amy
Quote from: anjaq on November 29, 2013, 05:49:58 PM
I had to start with such bad prerequesites - low pitch, strong resonance. i had to change a lot to get to where I am now and this is what causes the strain. But if i cannot elevate the breaking point or make it go away somehow, I may run into problems with it. 300 Hz is in the regular pitch variation at a 220 Hz F0. But then again, I will not be at 220 Hz F0 after a VFS anyways. It raises pitch by ~75 Hz, which would give me 175 if I take the original voice pitch as a reference.
it's very hard to give you any pointers not having heard your voice. But a 100 Hz F0 is exceedingly low. You're probably a bass, range-wise. And this makes it hard to give you any tips, because I can't relate firsthand to how your voice feels for you. And this also explains why you put such incredible strain on your voice to speak, because you need to compensate much more than I ever had to. In comparison, my F0 is 130 Hz, actually more toward the upper end of the male range, so I only need to push it up by a fifth to be in safe female territory, whereas for you it's almost an octave.
Love,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 30, 2013, 02:43:07 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on November 30, 2013, 02:43:07 AM
Dear Jenny,
Let me give you the explanation I once got from a voice teacher, and it made sense to me:
Imagine your throat as a variable acoustic filter, and consider two "settings" of it, Neutral (which we'd use in head voice) and Overdrive (which we'd use in chest voice). This is Sadolin's terminology, I'm just using it for convenience's sake. Below the break, we can use either (using the loose jaw, that is, the Neutral setting, below the break, is equal to extending the head voice down into the chest voice range), whereas above the break, for reasons of physics, only Neutral will speak, not Overdrive.
These two acoustic filters emphasize certain frequency bands in the acoustic spectrum, and cut others, much like an equalizer does on a mixing console or stereo system. Now we're basically dealing with two equalizer settings, one for Overdrive and one for Neutral. Overdrive is basically a very strong low-mid boost, whereas Neutral cuts the low mids, but emphasizes the high mids, but less so than Overdrive.
Now we're feeding two distinct input signals into this system, the sound of the male vocal cords and the sound of the shortened, female vocal cords. What happens?
The male signal concentrates a lot of power in the low midrange, but less so in the high mids. Run this through the Overdrive filter and presto: its natural strength on the low mids is further emphasized, and almost all of the signal's strength passes through. Run it through Neutral, and most its power is consumed by the low-mid cut, and the hi-mid boost doesn't compensate a lot, because the original signal didn't have a lot of power in this frequency band, anyway. So you wind up with very strong Overdrive, but very weak Neutral.
Now consider the female signal. It has less low-mid strength, but more hi-mids. So it hardly profits from the huge lo-mid boost Overdrive imparts, but also doesn't lose as much from Neutral's lo-mid cut. But as Neutral brings out its hi-mid strengths, the two filters produce signals of almost equal intensity and clarity. And so you get a nice balance between chest and head voice, and the two don't sound all that different at all.
And you can imagine it's easier to blend two signals of equal strength (to make it across the break, the female case) than a very strong and a very weak one (the male case).
Maybe it makes sense to you too.
Love,
Amy
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 29, 2013, 07:25:29 PM
I wonder what makes that chest/head transition more flowy? Perhaps from the shorter vocal cords?
Let me give you the explanation I once got from a voice teacher, and it made sense to me:
Imagine your throat as a variable acoustic filter, and consider two "settings" of it, Neutral (which we'd use in head voice) and Overdrive (which we'd use in chest voice). This is Sadolin's terminology, I'm just using it for convenience's sake. Below the break, we can use either (using the loose jaw, that is, the Neutral setting, below the break, is equal to extending the head voice down into the chest voice range), whereas above the break, for reasons of physics, only Neutral will speak, not Overdrive.
These two acoustic filters emphasize certain frequency bands in the acoustic spectrum, and cut others, much like an equalizer does on a mixing console or stereo system. Now we're basically dealing with two equalizer settings, one for Overdrive and one for Neutral. Overdrive is basically a very strong low-mid boost, whereas Neutral cuts the low mids, but emphasizes the high mids, but less so than Overdrive.
Now we're feeding two distinct input signals into this system, the sound of the male vocal cords and the sound of the shortened, female vocal cords. What happens?
The male signal concentrates a lot of power in the low midrange, but less so in the high mids. Run this through the Overdrive filter and presto: its natural strength on the low mids is further emphasized, and almost all of the signal's strength passes through. Run it through Neutral, and most its power is consumed by the low-mid cut, and the hi-mid boost doesn't compensate a lot, because the original signal didn't have a lot of power in this frequency band, anyway. So you wind up with very strong Overdrive, but very weak Neutral.
Now consider the female signal. It has less low-mid strength, but more hi-mids. So it hardly profits from the huge lo-mid boost Overdrive imparts, but also doesn't lose as much from Neutral's lo-mid cut. But as Neutral brings out its hi-mid strengths, the two filters produce signals of almost equal intensity and clarity. And so you get a nice balance between chest and head voice, and the two don't sound all that different at all.
And you can imagine it's easier to blend two signals of equal strength (to make it across the break, the female case) than a very strong and a very weak one (the male case).
Maybe it makes sense to you too.
Love,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 30, 2013, 03:18:14 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 30, 2013, 03:18:14 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on November 30, 2013, 02:14:29 AMI know - this is the main reason why I think I could benefit from Yesons. To make it easier for me to get and stay in that range. I managed to get it up by about 40-80 Hz depeding on how well I do now (40 when I am tired, 80 when I want to sound more feminine), the 40 still is rather ok, I do not strain a lot, but the higher ones are straining. And 140 Hz which is my average pitch when talking without effort is just still in the male range. I compensate by using resonance and modulation and all that and people usually do perceive my voice as female, especially since I frequently use the 160-180 Hz range, so they just assume it is a matter of maybe having some sore throat occasionally etc. But on the phone, F0 seems more important and I get more "male gendering". Well, I am trying training now to put less strain on it, but i think if I want to be in the 180Hz plus range permanently, I will need to consider the VFS. Otherwise I would have to keep relying on the other voice parameters to get a lower pitched voice gendered correctly - which may work, some women have low F0 and still get gendered correctly. But I am not sure I like to be that or can do as well as they do without a female shaped and sized larynx..
it's very hard to give you any pointers not having heard your voice. But a 100 Hz F0 is exceedingly low. You're probably a bass, range-wise. And this makes it hard to give you any tips, because I can't relate firsthand to how your voice feels for you. And this also explains why you put such incredible strain on your voice to speak, because you need to compensate much more than I ever had to.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: megan2929 on November 30, 2013, 12:44:38 PM
Post by: megan2929 on November 30, 2013, 12:44:38 PM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on November 30, 2013, 12:38:29 AM
Ivanchenko (http://lorphonplus.ru/) (an ENT surgeon in Moscow) both ties vocal folds together like Yeson does (though the stitch is not as far away from the anterior end as Yeson did for Jenny) and thins out vocal folds with Coblator device. Also, he can combine that with Adam's apple reduction (incision over it). $2000 for everything for Russians, I don't know about foreigners.
Personally as a gay trans woman, I would be terrified to travel to Russia right now.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 30, 2013, 01:04:43 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 30, 2013, 01:04:43 PM
Well this seems relatable to bring up... Dr. Kim told me that with the vocal cords being stretched ever so slightly from the suture, they are also slightly thinned out (imagine stretching a rubber band, it gets thinner).
Also effects from HRT can make the vocal cords thinner, he said. The voice will continue to get better the longer one has been taking estrogen. He related it to older men whose voices tend to go up in pitch as they age (testosterone levels drop and the vocal folds thin out). He told me all of this during the pre-operative exam.
Also effects from HRT can make the vocal cords thinner, he said. The voice will continue to get better the longer one has been taking estrogen. He related it to older men whose voices tend to go up in pitch as they age (testosterone levels drop and the vocal folds thin out). He told me all of this during the pre-operative exam.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on November 30, 2013, 01:20:42 PM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on November 30, 2013, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: megan2929 on November 30, 2013, 12:44:38 PMI would be terrified to travel to RussiaBut not to Korea or USA? Interesting...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 30, 2013, 02:19:12 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 30, 2013, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 30, 2013, 01:04:43 PMI am not sure of the latter. I have been on E2 for 15 years now and I casn still eek out s rather fair simulation of my old voice, though it is not easy to do for me but I think that is more psychological than actually vocal chord issues. Ok, I did not get the best HRT, so maybe that is not great evidence, but I definitely had no T to speak of.
Well this seems relatable to bring up... Dr. Kim told me that with the vocal cords being stretched ever so slightly from the suture, they are also slightly thinned out (imagine stretching a rubber band, it gets thinner).
Also effects from HRT can make the vocal cords thinner, he said. The voice will continue to get better the longer one has been taking estrogen.
That thinning of the chords by stretching them - will it last? I know there is that method of vocal chord stretching as a main avenue of a certain technique of VFS (cycrothyroid appoximation I think?) and it works for a while but then the chords "relax" and unstretch, the voice gets lower in pitch again.
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on November 30, 2013, 01:20:42 PMI must say I would feel safer in Portland or Seoul as a transwoman (or a lesbian or a lesbian transwoman) than in Russia with its not that great reputation about trans/homophobia. I dont know Russia well enough but I was to Hungary and was scared at the nationalists patrolling the streets at night - I did only leave the hotel once at that time ...
But not to Korea or USA? Interesting...
Plus as with any surgeon doing this - I would want to see details on his technique and hear voice samples as well as get contact to (english/german speaking) patients first. Dr Gross is not on top of my list because I could not find that information on him yet, even though I could probably get the VFS there on insurance money and without a far trip.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 30, 2013, 02:28:23 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 30, 2013, 02:28:23 PM
Anja- I think what you are referencing with the stretching approach is done by Dr. Toby Mayer in Beverly Hills. I am actually having my FFS with him. He places sutures laterally on the voice box which adds tension to the vocal cords.
The look on his face when I told him about Yeson was kind of like "well, f***" lol. He has been doing the stretching method for years with variable amounts of success. It depends on the person, and he is not a voice doctor but a facial plastic surgeon first and foremost. On the voice samples and satisfaction rate spoken from his mouth, I could not recommend it.
Cricothyroid approximation is a different approach by forcing a person into a falsetto voice at all times and is one of the old procedures that allowed VFS to gain such a negative reputation... because it hardly ever sounds natural.
The look on his face when I told him about Yeson was kind of like "well, f***" lol. He has been doing the stretching method for years with variable amounts of success. It depends on the person, and he is not a voice doctor but a facial plastic surgeon first and foremost. On the voice samples and satisfaction rate spoken from his mouth, I could not recommend it.
Cricothyroid approximation is a different approach by forcing a person into a falsetto voice at all times and is one of the old procedures that allowed VFS to gain such a negative reputation... because it hardly ever sounds natural.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 02, 2013, 03:05:10 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 02, 2013, 03:05:10 AM
Dear all,
having asked a few friends who use their voice professionally (speakers, singers), Dr. Gross appears to have a really good rep as a phoniatrist among this crowd. That's promising. In any case, I'll check him out in Feb. and have him take a look at my voice box to get an opinion on the status quo of my problem, and will try to obtain more detailed information on the surgery he's doing. Under the very restrictive German laws, he can't publicly supply before/after recordings, but he could do so on a one-on-one basis. If he doesn't, it's not a good sign, but if he does, I'll let you know how they rate up in comparison to Yeson's work. However, I feel it would take absolutely top-notch results for me to consider choosing him over Yeson.
Meanwhile my friend is on her road to recovery and I'm very curious how she'll sound. I feel that the availability of this kind of surgery, performed at Yeson's level of perfection, is truly a revolutionary life-changer for trans women, on a par with the advent of FFS 25 years ago, and it's exciting to be a part of it. Actually, I can hardly wait having the procedure, and the prospect of having to wait another half year really sucks (pardon my French).
Amy
having asked a few friends who use their voice professionally (speakers, singers), Dr. Gross appears to have a really good rep as a phoniatrist among this crowd. That's promising. In any case, I'll check him out in Feb. and have him take a look at my voice box to get an opinion on the status quo of my problem, and will try to obtain more detailed information on the surgery he's doing. Under the very restrictive German laws, he can't publicly supply before/after recordings, but he could do so on a one-on-one basis. If he doesn't, it's not a good sign, but if he does, I'll let you know how they rate up in comparison to Yeson's work. However, I feel it would take absolutely top-notch results for me to consider choosing him over Yeson.
Meanwhile my friend is on her road to recovery and I'm very curious how she'll sound. I feel that the availability of this kind of surgery, performed at Yeson's level of perfection, is truly a revolutionary life-changer for trans women, on a par with the advent of FFS 25 years ago, and it's exciting to be a part of it. Actually, I can hardly wait having the procedure, and the prospect of having to wait another half year really sucks (pardon my French).
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 05:00:40 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 05:00:40 AM
Hi Amy
I am not sure if they did not ask for them or if he does not give them they were not provided (or his patients generally refuse to give them due to privacy reasons). So I was kind of stuck with anecdotes about the voices being often a bit hoarse or breathy. I am still trying to get someone who had the surgery there on the skypephone to get an impression. I really would like to hear some of the voices of people who had done the surgery either at Yesons or at Dr Gross to get a direct impression, which would mean more to me than a recording, which means more to me than someone writing online that it was great (very subjective!)
Greetings
Quote from: AmyBerlin on December 02, 2013, 03:05:10 AMDid you also have a very specific problem like I do with overstraining? Do you already know what the issue there is? Or is the problem the whole issue about pitch and such?
That's promising. In any case, I'll check him out in Feb. and have him take a look at my voice box to get an opinion on the status quo of my problem
QuoteUnder the very restrictive German laws, he can't publicly supply before/after recordings, but he could do so on a one-on-one basis.Yes - to clarify this, there is a regulation that prohibits medical professionals who offer health services that are usually covered by health insurance to do advertisement. The idea is that it would be detrimental if doctors (often at publicly funded institutions) would have to spend lots of money to participate in a advertisement battle. It makes a lot of sense, but to consider voice samples an advertisement is stretching it :( - I would say it is important information.
QuoteIf he doesn't, it's not a good sign, but if he does, I'll let you know how they rate up in comparison to Yeson's work.I exchanged some facebook comments with two people who had to do with Dr Gross and both told me they did not listen to voice samples -
QuoteMeanwhile my friend is on her road to recovery and I'm very curious how she'll sound.I am looking very much forward to it, also because it will be possible to get a recording of a german language sample then - which is easier for me to judge of course than a foreign language one!
QuoteActually, I can hardly wait having the procedure, and the prospect of having to wait another half year really sucks (pardon my French).Ah half a year will be over in no time. For me, if I should go for this it would be at least a year out from now. More like 1.5 years.
Greetings
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 02, 2013, 07:35:12 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 02, 2013, 07:35:12 AM
Hi Anja,
The problem is that it's an awful lot of work. Keeping my speaking voice up is work in itself, but singing takes an excruciating amount of control and diaphragm support. I suppose there won't be any voice problems per se, since I have fairly good technique, but I'd like to rule out such a case before seeing Dr. Kim.
Anecdotes are NOT evidence. Question is, how do we track down patients who had the procedure with him, and get a voice sample from them? Apparently there's no conclusive information floating around on the Internets.
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 05:00:40 AM
Did you also have a very specific problem like I do with overstraining? Do you already know what the issue there is? Or is the problem the whole issue about pitch and such?
The problem is that it's an awful lot of work. Keeping my speaking voice up is work in itself, but singing takes an excruciating amount of control and diaphragm support. I suppose there won't be any voice problems per se, since I have fairly good technique, but I'd like to rule out such a case before seeing Dr. Kim.
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 05:00:40 AM
I exchanged some facebook comments with two people who had to do with Dr Gross and both told me they did not listen to voice samples -I am not sure if they did not ask for them or if he does not give themthey were not provided (or his patients generally refuse to give them due to privacy reasons). So I was kind of stuck with anecdotes about the voices being often a bit hoarse or breathy. I am still trying to get someone who had the surgery there on the skypephone to get an impression. I really would like to hear some of the voices of people who had done the surgery either at Yesons or at Dr Gross to get a direct impression, which would mean more to me than a recording, which means more to me than someone writing online that it was great (very subjective!)
Anecdotes are NOT evidence. Question is, how do we track down patients who had the procedure with him, and get a voice sample from them? Apparently there's no conclusive information floating around on the Internets.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
Yes - very little Information. I am trying to collect some now. Its a hard Job and people dont like to give voice samples. I guess they are afraid that it is not as good as they think it is, just like with all our procedures...
I have interesting news. a) Dr Gross seems to almost never talk to the patients himself in the consultation but sends his co-surgeon. b) they seem to never give out voice samples and do not even give you the detailled results of your voice examination unless you request it
and the biggest one: c) I think I have a hint on what makes a glottoplasty a success or not. One of the girls who went there found out that they say the hoarseness/breathiness that some experience is coming from a wrong angle in the new V-shape. So basically if it is a wider angle (which is inevitable with this method) or if there is an assymetry, this may cause the problem. What I think as a result is that a good and experienced surgeon can better predict the angle of his results, maybe even correct assymetries, ensure that the angle is good. And then the result is a voice that is not hoarse or breathy. If the surgeon cannot do that, the angle does not work out and there is a flaw in the resulting voice, which in theory could probably be corrected surgically, but few would go through all of this again for such a minor correction. This is just my impresison now - it is not said so by the surgeons.
And Amy - if you go to Charité for the consultation - make sure you ask for voice samples, make sure you try to get the most information about this issue with the hoarseness and the angle of the vocal chords ("c.") and make sure you ask them for videos, pictures and printouts of your voice analysis. It seems they are typical german doctors who think that it is enough if the doctors know all that information and the patient just has to know the minimum information needed.
I have interesting news. a) Dr Gross seems to almost never talk to the patients himself in the consultation but sends his co-surgeon. b) they seem to never give out voice samples and do not even give you the detailled results of your voice examination unless you request it
and the biggest one: c) I think I have a hint on what makes a glottoplasty a success or not. One of the girls who went there found out that they say the hoarseness/breathiness that some experience is coming from a wrong angle in the new V-shape. So basically if it is a wider angle (which is inevitable with this method) or if there is an assymetry, this may cause the problem. What I think as a result is that a good and experienced surgeon can better predict the angle of his results, maybe even correct assymetries, ensure that the angle is good. And then the result is a voice that is not hoarse or breathy. If the surgeon cannot do that, the angle does not work out and there is a flaw in the resulting voice, which in theory could probably be corrected surgically, but few would go through all of this again for such a minor correction. This is just my impresison now - it is not said so by the surgeons.
And Amy - if you go to Charité for the consultation - make sure you ask for voice samples, make sure you try to get the most information about this issue with the hoarseness and the angle of the vocal chords ("c.") and make sure you ask them for videos, pictures and printouts of your voice analysis. It seems they are typical german doctors who think that it is enough if the doctors know all that information and the patient just has to know the minimum information needed.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 03, 2013, 01:40:15 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 03, 2013, 01:40:15 AM
Dear Anja,
This is an alarming sign. People who are happy with their surgery result should be pleased to readily submit an anonymous voice sample.
No sample, no surgery. For me at least. Not with him.
This is likely the point, and the only sensible reason why Dr. Kim limits his glottoplasties to a 75 Hz increase. Were the angle irrelevant, the stitch could be placed in an arbitrary position and the voice retuned at will. Probably the 75 Hz are just at the limit where the arytenoid cartilages can still maintain good vocal fold closure for loud phonation. Hoarseness or even breathiness preclude loud volumes at the risk of injury, and definitely are pathologic signs for a voice.
I'll try and squeeze as much information out of them as I possibly can. I'll be taking a detailed list of questions with me and systematically work my way down. Also, I'll take an USB drive, digital camera (to copy printouts) and notepad. It could also help (and indeed has helped me in dealing with a lot of physicians in Germany) if I state my Ph.D. on the admission form. OTOH, I've also seen cases where it seemingly backfired, though they are few and far between. Having the degree and a good background on the subject matter often help in restoring the loaded doctor-patient authority see-saw to balance and level out the playing field.
Well, I'd be happy if they gave me the information needed. I need a whole lot of information to make an informed decision, I would say!
Have a great day,
Amy
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
I am trying to collect some now. Its a hard Job and people dont like to give voice samples. I guess they are afraid that it is not as good as they think it is, just like with all our procedures...
This is an alarming sign. People who are happy with their surgery result should be pleased to readily submit an anonymous voice sample.
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
b) they seem to never give out voice samples and do not even give you the detailled results of your voice examination unless you request it
No sample, no surgery. For me at least. Not with him.
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
So basically if it is a wider angle (which is inevitable with this method) or if there is an assymetry, this may cause the problem. What I think as a result is that a good and experienced surgeon can better predict the angle of his results, maybe even correct assymetries, ensure that the angle is good.
This is likely the point, and the only sensible reason why Dr. Kim limits his glottoplasties to a 75 Hz increase. Were the angle irrelevant, the stitch could be placed in an arbitrary position and the voice retuned at will. Probably the 75 Hz are just at the limit where the arytenoid cartilages can still maintain good vocal fold closure for loud phonation. Hoarseness or even breathiness preclude loud volumes at the risk of injury, and definitely are pathologic signs for a voice.
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
make sure you ask for voice samples, make sure you try to get the most information about this issue with the hoarseness and the angle of the vocal chords ("c.") and make sure you ask them for videos, pictures and printouts of your voice analysis.
I'll try and squeeze as much information out of them as I possibly can. I'll be taking a detailed list of questions with me and systematically work my way down. Also, I'll take an USB drive, digital camera (to copy printouts) and notepad. It could also help (and indeed has helped me in dealing with a lot of physicians in Germany) if I state my Ph.D. on the admission form. OTOH, I've also seen cases where it seemingly backfired, though they are few and far between. Having the degree and a good background on the subject matter often help in restoring the loaded doctor-patient authority see-saw to balance and level out the playing field.
Quote from: anjaq on December 02, 2013, 10:10:09 AM
It seems they are typical german doctors who think that it is enough if the doctors know all that information and the patient just has to know the minimum information needed.
Well, I'd be happy if they gave me the information needed. I need a whole lot of information to make an informed decision, I would say!
Have a great day,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 03, 2013, 02:42:08 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 03, 2013, 02:42:08 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on December 03, 2013, 01:40:15 AMYes indeed. I must admit however that Germans seem always a bit more privacy oriented than lets say Americans. I personally would not want my pictures or videos to be seen on the web in this context. But I think I would not mind to give an anonymous voice sample, especially if it is not publicized. But I guess the German surgeons do maybe not even ask for samples to be shown to others? I can imagine they don't...
This is an alarming sign. People who are happy with their surgery result should be pleased to readily submit an anonymous voice sample.
No sample, no surgery. For me at least. Not with him.
QuoteThis is likely the point, and the only sensible reason why Dr. Kim limits his glottoplasties to a 75 Hz increase.I think this range is also the one others are aiming at but I think it is probably a crucial detail on how the stitches are done in that area, how well the surgeon can predict the post operative shapes and such.
Also it totally makes even more sense now with this information on the importance of the angle on the voice, that post operative restrictions (no speaking, no coughing etc) are kept to the letter because I can imagine that even small tears in the area of the commissure (the tip of the "V") can alter its shape enough to endanger the overall result. After all this is a delicate area post op. Imagine two strips of cloth and sewing them halfway together, then pulling at them even slightly - there may be tears in the fabric or widening of the holes of the stitches right at the commissure.
QuoteI'll try and squeeze as much information out of them as I possibly can. I'll be taking a detailed list of questions with me and systematically work my way down. Also, I'll take an USB drive, digital camera (to copy printouts) and notepad. It could also help (and indeed has helped me in dealing with a lot of physicians in Germany) if I state my Ph.D. on the admission form.Yeah - you seem to be well equipped then :) - Its what one needs, it seems , to get good quality information out of some doctors. I have to try that trick with the PhD - I thought of that too - they seem to sort of treat people differently if they see one has an academic degree. I did not put it on the admission form however if I think that it could rise fees because they think I am well off because of it :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 05, 2013, 02:47:42 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 05, 2013, 02:47:42 AM
Hi all,
Having thought intensely about the geometry of the glottis, I think the V's tip shape is much more important than the angle per se, because, on phonation, the arytenoid cartilages bring the posterior end of the vocal folds in line, no matter how obtuse the angle in front. But what's absolutely key to phonation is that the two vocal folds meet at a well-defined point in front. If that point takes on a rounded shape post-surgically, or is blunted or stiffened by scar tissue formation, the folds won't be able to make contact in front, thereby letting a jet of air escape in a turbulent airstream, without contributing to phonation. The unused air gives the voice a breathy quality and the turbulence of the airstream creates an irregular pull on the vocal folds at higher volumes that could potentially lead to additional vocal fold wear and hoarseness. And that's why you have to adhere to the post-op instructions so precisely, to ensure scar-free healing.
But this is just my conjecture of what could go wrong during the procedure.
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: anjaq on December 03, 2013, 02:42:08 AM
I think this range is also the one others are aiming at but I think it is probably a crucial detail on how the stitches are done in that area, how well the surgeon can predict the post operative shapes and such.
Also it totally makes even more sense now with this information on the importance of the angle on the voice, that post operative restrictions (no speaking, no coughing etc) are kept to the letter because I can imagine that even small tears in the area of the commissure (the tip of the "V") can alter its shape enough to endanger the overall result.
Having thought intensely about the geometry of the glottis, I think the V's tip shape is much more important than the angle per se, because, on phonation, the arytenoid cartilages bring the posterior end of the vocal folds in line, no matter how obtuse the angle in front. But what's absolutely key to phonation is that the two vocal folds meet at a well-defined point in front. If that point takes on a rounded shape post-surgically, or is blunted or stiffened by scar tissue formation, the folds won't be able to make contact in front, thereby letting a jet of air escape in a turbulent airstream, without contributing to phonation. The unused air gives the voice a breathy quality and the turbulence of the airstream creates an irregular pull on the vocal folds at higher volumes that could potentially lead to additional vocal fold wear and hoarseness. And that's why you have to adhere to the post-op instructions so precisely, to ensure scar-free healing.
But this is just my conjecture of what could go wrong during the procedure.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Mx Pippa on December 05, 2013, 04:55:27 AM
Post by: Mx Pippa on December 05, 2013, 04:55:27 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:09:10 PM
Hi everyone! I have been looking into this place "Yeson Voice Center" more and more. My practiced female voice is coming along but I am still finding great difficulty using it around people I already knew- which leads to difficulties across the board. I want to use it all the time but just... can't... for some reason.
Glad to know I'm not alone on this Jenny, I've tied most things to get a wonderful fem voice, Andrea James to start, even had Skype lessons from Kathe Perez, who said my voice was just where it should be, but as soon as I confront some one, in kicks my male voice. I'm sure it's just in my mind so giving the Hypnotherapy root a try now.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2013, 06:55:10 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2013, 06:55:10 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on December 05, 2013, 02:47:42 AMThis totally makes sense and I think that is what Dr Gross' Assistant meant actually - I think she was talking about the microstructure there (the tiny tip of the V) with the angle, not the whole vocal chord angle. It has to stay V-shaped and not U shaped or like a V with a wider angle. I guess this is in part surgical experience and good aftercare to make this happen.
Having thought intensely about the geometry of the glottis, I think the V's tip shape is much more important than the angle per se[...] If that point takes on a rounded shape post-surgically, or is blunted or stiffened by scar tissue formation, the folds won't be able to make contact in front, thereby letting a jet of air escape in a turbulent airstream, without contributing to phonation. The unused air gives the voice a breathy quality and the turbulence of the airstream creates an irregular pull on the vocal folds at higher volumes that could potentially lead to additional vocal fold wear and hoarseness. And that's why you have to adhere to the post-op instructions so precisely, to ensure scar-free healing.
My vocal chords now do something like this because of my condition - they do not close completely in that area. I guess my voice is a bit breathy as a result (which is partly desired as it makes the voioce more feminine) but also causes problems. I seem to somehow correct it or maybe it is just not as strong, as the phonetics doctor and my voice tainer both said that my voice is a lot less breathy than they would expect with that condition. So a bad shape in the Tip of the V definitely should be avoided and I can imagine this makes a whole lot of difference.
This complication does not explain a lack in the increase of average pitch though, as some have experienced it. This is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Mx Pippa on December 07, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
Post by: Mx Pippa on December 07, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
This is a mighty big thread, so I just may have missed it, but has price been mentioned?
I seem to remember trawling thought the web site but not really getting an incing of the cost.
I seem to remember trawling thought the web site but not really getting an incing of the cost.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sarahb on December 07, 2013, 05:33:45 PM
Post by: sarahb on December 07, 2013, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: Mx Pippa on December 07, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
This is a mighty big thread, so I just may have missed it, but has price been mentioned?
I seem to remember trawling thought the web site but not really getting an incing of the cost.
It was $7,380 when I was there almost a month ago. If you need the Botox it's another $400.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Mx Pippa on December 07, 2013, 07:54:47 PM
Post by: Mx Pippa on December 07, 2013, 07:54:47 PM
Thanks Sarah, It seems I have to bookmark you or something, until I get 50 posts (sorry another thread), then I can give you a reputation point. Anyways, thanks again, your a star, sorry to say no Yeson for me, unless my lottery numbers come up.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 21, 2013, 01:57:04 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 21, 2013, 01:57:04 AM
Dear all,
the following link leads to a poster that details the results of VFS performed by Miethe et al. at Katharinenhospital, Stuttgart, Germany:
http://www.egms.de/static/pdf/journals/cpo/2006-2/cpo000215.pdf (http://www.egms.de/static/pdf/journals/cpo/2006-2/cpo000215.pdf)
They apparently use the same basic technique as Gross and Kim. I'm not going to translate the text that only highlights the deep lack of concern many physicians have toward issues we, their trans* patients, face, but will only point out what the figures mean.
Fig. 1: Vocal folds with mucosa removed in the anterior portion. Very similar to the corresponding picture supplied by Yeson.
Fig. 2: Completed surgery. The result is worse than Yeson's in three aspects:
Fig. 4: Patients' self-assessment of satisfaction with their pre- (green) and postoperative (magenta) voices. X axis: Satisfaction on an ascending 10-point scale, Y axis: Number of patients.
Compared to Yeson's counterparts of Figs. 2 and 4 (Fig. 1 is indeed very similar), Yeson's procedure has a clear edge over Stuttgart's. How Gross (Berlin) compares to either is yet to be determined.
I'm looking forward to any comments and suggestions as to the comparison of the two results.
Best regards,
Amy
the following link leads to a poster that details the results of VFS performed by Miethe et al. at Katharinenhospital, Stuttgart, Germany:
http://www.egms.de/static/pdf/journals/cpo/2006-2/cpo000215.pdf (http://www.egms.de/static/pdf/journals/cpo/2006-2/cpo000215.pdf)
They apparently use the same basic technique as Gross and Kim. I'm not going to translate the text that only highlights the deep lack of concern many physicians have toward issues we, their trans* patients, face, but will only point out what the figures mean.
Fig. 1: Vocal folds with mucosa removed in the anterior portion. Very similar to the corresponding picture supplied by Yeson.
Fig. 2: Completed surgery. The result is worse than Yeson's in three aspects:
- Sutures are not horizontal, thus possibly leading to an uneven distribution of tension between the two vocal folds.
- The surgery created lesions on the vibrating portion of the vocal folds that may hamper phonation post-surgically. The left fold is marred by an attempt at a stitch, the right appears swollen.
- The two folds do not meet in a well-defined contact point, the re-located commissure, but instead the right one was pulled over the left, thus vertically displaced. This may possibly also negatively affect sound quality afterwards.
Fig. 4: Patients' self-assessment of satisfaction with their pre- (green) and postoperative (magenta) voices. X axis: Satisfaction on an ascending 10-point scale, Y axis: Number of patients.
Compared to Yeson's counterparts of Figs. 2 and 4 (Fig. 1 is indeed very similar), Yeson's procedure has a clear edge over Stuttgart's. How Gross (Berlin) compares to either is yet to be determined.
I'm looking forward to any comments and suggestions as to the comparison of the two results.
Best regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 21, 2013, 04:11:44 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 21, 2013, 04:11:44 AM
Thanks Amy for sharing this. I would really like to see that Fig 2 without all the blood in it to get a clear picture, but the unevenness of the sutures is really striking in any case. I also would like to see a higher res picture of the results from Yesons to see how their commissure is looking like. But indeed from the comparison of these pictures to http://www.yesonvc.net/disease/feminization_surgery.asp I would say that the people in Stuttgart are doing not that great of a job. Ok, this is of course just n=1, one sample, pictures chosen for whatever illustrative purposes. Still it says something.
Maybe there is a chance to get more pictures. Have you sent this document to Dr Kim?
Maybe there is a chance to get more pictures. Have you sent this document to Dr Kim?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on December 21, 2013, 02:58:20 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on December 21, 2013, 02:58:20 PM
For a frame of reference, here is a before/after of my vocal cords
day before surgery
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8Tb9PPQ.jpg&hash=c5dc229586de8c33f5dc7acc157c7715ce472679)
7 days post-op
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJbrlqQg.jpg&hash=63a12a94dd1d30d8ffe224f127a14396a8940610)
I would really love to see how my cords look NOW. Maybe it's time to schedule an appointment with a local ENT to have a look. Yes, I think I will do that. I'm extremely curious to see if the V shape has returned fully.
day before surgery
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8Tb9PPQ.jpg&hash=c5dc229586de8c33f5dc7acc157c7715ce472679)
7 days post-op
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJbrlqQg.jpg&hash=63a12a94dd1d30d8ffe224f127a14396a8940610)
I would really love to see how my cords look NOW. Maybe it's time to schedule an appointment with a local ENT to have a look. Yes, I think I will do that. I'm extremely curious to see if the V shape has returned fully.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 21, 2013, 03:30:53 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 21, 2013, 03:30:53 PM
Dear Jenny,
thanks for posting your before/afters. As far as I can see, this is VERY good work by Dr. Kim. And please note that the large "V" only exists with the vocal folds in the breathing position, so you don't have anything to worry about. In phonation position, the folds touch along the midline. And the "V" we've been talking about is far smaller: just the little contact point of the newly formed commissure (where the green and blue lines would touch in your picture). If the procedure caused scarring, there wouldn't be a neat contact point, but more or less of a gap through which excess air would escape without contributing to phonation.
BTW, I just got off the phone with a Stuttgart patient (a decade postop with Drs. Hagen/Miethe). She sounded very convincingly feminine to my ears, although her voice was a tad duller sounding than yours that has this wonderful mezzo ring to it. But this could be because of being inexperienced in voice technique. But the main outcome of this conversation was to provide a frame of reference for the long-term effect of this surgery: it's indeed absolutely permanent, her voice reportedly hasn't changed since, which I'm more than ready to believe. She mentioned that she lost some volume with the surgery, though. Jenny, can you fill us in how volume develops after a Yeson surgery?
Plus, I heard that Gross is no longer doing most of the Berlin surgeries, apparently a colleague of his, Dr. Nawka is. Hearsay has it he's also good. But that's for me to find out in February. I wrote to them again if they could provide me with samples in advance of our meeting. Let's see how they react.
Bottom line: Kim still remains top choice for me, although sound-wise Stuttgart appears to be a viable option for people unwilling to make the trip to Korea.
Best wishes, happy holidays to all,
Amy
thanks for posting your before/afters. As far as I can see, this is VERY good work by Dr. Kim. And please note that the large "V" only exists with the vocal folds in the breathing position, so you don't have anything to worry about. In phonation position, the folds touch along the midline. And the "V" we've been talking about is far smaller: just the little contact point of the newly formed commissure (where the green and blue lines would touch in your picture). If the procedure caused scarring, there wouldn't be a neat contact point, but more or less of a gap through which excess air would escape without contributing to phonation.
BTW, I just got off the phone with a Stuttgart patient (a decade postop with Drs. Hagen/Miethe). She sounded very convincingly feminine to my ears, although her voice was a tad duller sounding than yours that has this wonderful mezzo ring to it. But this could be because of being inexperienced in voice technique. But the main outcome of this conversation was to provide a frame of reference for the long-term effect of this surgery: it's indeed absolutely permanent, her voice reportedly hasn't changed since, which I'm more than ready to believe. She mentioned that she lost some volume with the surgery, though. Jenny, can you fill us in how volume develops after a Yeson surgery?
Plus, I heard that Gross is no longer doing most of the Berlin surgeries, apparently a colleague of his, Dr. Nawka is. Hearsay has it he's also good. But that's for me to find out in February. I wrote to them again if they could provide me with samples in advance of our meeting. Let's see how they react.
Bottom line: Kim still remains top choice for me, although sound-wise Stuttgart appears to be a viable option for people unwilling to make the trip to Korea.
Best wishes, happy holidays to all,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on December 21, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on December 21, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
I decided to do another check in video, including my before reading of rainbow passage. Haven't posted anything in quite a while!! I took analyzation graphs from Praat and animated it along with the videos to provide better frame of reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLIar0LPVrk
As far as volume, I am still gaining it back... but by no means do I feel like it is a problem. On numerous occasions I have had to yell, and I am surprised by how loud & high I can get. When I really push it, I can go much much higher and louder than I used to be able to and purely in a head voice.
Under normal speaking circumstances the volume difference is a little bit more noticeable, where I find myself having to speak up a bit more than I was used to. I also find that usually in this case I just need to focus more on bringing the pitch up instead rather than putting more air through.
I hope that makes sense. It certainly is getting better still. Being home for Christmas my mom has told me numerous times how wonderful she thinks my voice sounds, and I have been passing to everyone I've come in contact with which eases her mind soooo much. It's quite wonderful what this surgery has done :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLIar0LPVrk
As far as volume, I am still gaining it back... but by no means do I feel like it is a problem. On numerous occasions I have had to yell, and I am surprised by how loud & high I can get. When I really push it, I can go much much higher and louder than I used to be able to and purely in a head voice.
Under normal speaking circumstances the volume difference is a little bit more noticeable, where I find myself having to speak up a bit more than I was used to. I also find that usually in this case I just need to focus more on bringing the pitch up instead rather than putting more air through.
I hope that makes sense. It certainly is getting better still. Being home for Christmas my mom has told me numerous times how wonderful she thinks my voice sounds, and I have been passing to everyone I've come in contact with which eases her mind soooo much. It's quite wonderful what this surgery has done :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 22, 2013, 03:32:42 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 22, 2013, 03:32:42 AM
Dear Jenny,
thanks for all the information. I'm so glad that you have such a supportive mother. And that she, as a retired voice professional, is happy with your voice says a lot to the credit of Dr. Kim. And I'm relieved to hear that with him, volume is not an issue. Now, over half a year past the procedure, your voice just keeps sounding stronger and better. Congratulations! I can't wait until April rolls around and I have the time to go to Yeson to have the surgery. I could afford it, like, immediately, but unfortunately, my work schedule is jam-packed until mid-April.
BTW, didn't your old ticker say you'd get FFS soon? I don't think you need it, I think you're pretty the way you are, but in any case I wish you lots of success with that and that all your dreams and aspirations come true! Who you're having it with?
Love,
Amy
thanks for all the information. I'm so glad that you have such a supportive mother. And that she, as a retired voice professional, is happy with your voice says a lot to the credit of Dr. Kim. And I'm relieved to hear that with him, volume is not an issue. Now, over half a year past the procedure, your voice just keeps sounding stronger and better. Congratulations! I can't wait until April rolls around and I have the time to go to Yeson to have the surgery. I could afford it, like, immediately, but unfortunately, my work schedule is jam-packed until mid-April.
BTW, didn't your old ticker say you'd get FFS soon? I don't think you need it, I think you're pretty the way you are, but in any case I wish you lots of success with that and that all your dreams and aspirations come true! Who you're having it with?
Love,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on December 22, 2013, 10:06:03 AM
Post by: barbie on December 22, 2013, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on December 21, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
I hope that makes sense. It certainly is getting better still. Being home for Christmas my mom has told me numerous times how wonderful she thinks my voice sounds, and I have been passing to everyone I've come in contact with which eases her mind soooo much. It's quite wonderful what this surgery has done :)
Yes. Jenny, it seems a surprising gift for Christmas to your family.
I hope to listen you delivering a lecture or a speech next year.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on December 22, 2013, 01:13:50 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on December 22, 2013, 01:13:50 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on December 22, 2013, 03:32:42 AM
Dear Jenny,
thanks for all the information. I'm so glad that you have such a supportive mother. And that she, as a retired voice professional, is happy with your voice says a lot to the credit of Dr. Kim. And I'm relieved to hear that with him, volume is not an issue. Now, over half a year past the procedure, your voice just keeps sounding stronger and better. Congratulations! I can't wait until April rolls around and I have the time to go to Yeson to have the surgery. I could afford it, like, immediately, but unfortunately, my work schedule is jam-packed until mid-April.
BTW, didn't your old ticker say you'd get FFS soon? I don't think you need it, I think you're pretty the way you are, but in any case I wish you lots of success with that and that all your dreams and aspirations come true! Who you're having it with?
Love,
Amy
Thank you for your blessing, Amy :) And I too hope that it times out well for you in April, I am ecstatic anytime I hear that someone is going to have this surgery. The joy that it has brought me gives me a sense of compersion to know that others will be much happier with their own voices too.
You are correct, my old ticker did say that I was getting FFS. I changed it because Rowan will be coming down to take care of me for a bit right after my surgery, and to have FFS ticker in my signature felt a bit like I was bragging anyway so I changed it. Plus I am equally excited to see Rowan again!
Thank you for saying that you think I don't need it, my hope is that from the front of my face it won't change a thing besides turning back the age clock a few years for years to come (I am turning 30 in february). The only thing I really have a concern about on my face is my brow bossing, which is only visible from the side. At the same time though I am having my under eye bags corrected (a hereditary trait - thanks mom!) and nasolabial folds filled in a bit with the leftover tissue from my brow bossing/hairline reshaping procedure. All in all, they are very minor things to have done and I'm not expecting to look much different from the front... it's really only my side profile that you can see why I'm going through with it- or if I am sitting directly underneath a very strong overhead light.
Quote from: barbie on December 22, 2013, 10:06:03 AM
Yes. Jenny, it seems a surprising gift for Christmas to your family.
I hope to listen you delivering a lecture or a speech next year.
barbie~~
Thanks for that barbie! That would be pretty neat :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 22, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
Post by: anjaq on December 22, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
Hi, Jenny.
I wish you all the best for the new year and the surgeries you will go for right at the start of that new year :) - I need to bookmark your videos, just in case my condition should get better enough to give good prospects for VFS but not good enough results to go without VFS. Its kind of funny - the report from the ENT said, that my vocal chords are having the best vibrational pattern at 200 Hz. Weird, huh? I thought going deeper would make it better if the problems come from speaking to high pitched.
Greetings
I wish you all the best for the new year and the surgeries you will go for right at the start of that new year :) - I need to bookmark your videos, just in case my condition should get better enough to give good prospects for VFS but not good enough results to go without VFS. Its kind of funny - the report from the ENT said, that my vocal chords are having the best vibrational pattern at 200 Hz. Weird, huh? I thought going deeper would make it better if the problems come from speaking to high pitched.
Quote from: Jennygirl on December 22, 2013, 01:13:50 PMYou always sound so enthusiastic, it is really infectious (do you say that?) - it makes me excited as well. I will be looking forward to Amys experience resports :)
Thank you for your blessing, Amy :) And I too hope that it times out well for you in April, I am ecstatic anytime I hear that someone is going to have this surgery. The joy that it has brought me gives me a sense of compersion to know that others will be much happier with their own voices too.
QuoteThank you for saying that you think I don't need it, my hope is that from the front of my face it won't change a thing [...]it's really only my side profile that you can see why I'm going through with it- or if I am sitting directly underneath a very strong overhead light.Its funny, I saw that ticker with half an eye once and for some reason thought you already had FFS - LOL - so I guess I also would not have thought you need it. But I totally get that overhead light issue - I have this as well. I hate elevators and such...
Greetings
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 22, 2013, 03:44:43 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 22, 2013, 03:44:43 PM
Dear Jenny, Anja,
That's what I'm hoping for, too – to substitute the constant struggle with my voice in making it do what it was never designed to do with simple, peaceful joy and contentment.
That was my FFS motivation too. The only procedure I added was a chin advance (I used to have a receding chin). And it eased my mind so much. Now I feel so happy and at home when I look at my reflection in a mirror or shop window.
Although I was fully aware of my trans status by age 4, back then it was impossible to procure treatment before reaching the age of maturity. And so I had to watch my body go to shambles before being allowed to do anything about it. And then it felt like I got handed a puzzle with 1000+ pieces and had to put it back together. I've mostly succeeded, and most people would say, also voice-wise, but they don't know the constant effort it takes to operate this instrument. I always say "I'm trying to play oboe concertos on a bassoon". That pretty much nails it.
I will open a new thread as soon as the date is confirmed. Up until then, I'll get in shape as good as possible, with daily trips to the gym, no more partying and hanging out at night, so the postoperative austerity won't be as much of a shock.
G'nite y'all,
Amy
Quote from: Jennygirl on December 22, 2013, 01:13:50 PM
The joy that it has brought me gives me a sense of compersion to know that others will be much happier with their own voices too.
That's what I'm hoping for, too – to substitute the constant struggle with my voice in making it do what it was never designed to do with simple, peaceful joy and contentment.
Quote from: Jennygirl on December 22, 2013, 01:13:50 PM
The only thing I really have a concern about on my face is my brow bossing, which is only visible from the side.
That was my FFS motivation too. The only procedure I added was a chin advance (I used to have a receding chin). And it eased my mind so much. Now I feel so happy and at home when I look at my reflection in a mirror or shop window.
Although I was fully aware of my trans status by age 4, back then it was impossible to procure treatment before reaching the age of maturity. And so I had to watch my body go to shambles before being allowed to do anything about it. And then it felt like I got handed a puzzle with 1000+ pieces and had to put it back together. I've mostly succeeded, and most people would say, also voice-wise, but they don't know the constant effort it takes to operate this instrument. I always say "I'm trying to play oboe concertos on a bassoon". That pretty much nails it.
Quote from: anjaq on December 22, 2013, 01:32:12 PM
I will be looking forward to Amys experience resports :)
I will open a new thread as soon as the date is confirmed. Up until then, I'll get in shape as good as possible, with daily trips to the gym, no more partying and hanging out at night, so the postoperative austerity won't be as much of a shock.
G'nite y'all,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 08, 2014, 03:09:33 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 08, 2014, 03:09:33 AM
Hi all,
now I know a few more things about the history of glottoplasty or VFS-AAC:
Apparently, Gross et al. presented his technique at the Voice Foundation's 25th annual symposium in 1996:
http://ncvs.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-Voice-Foundations-25th-Annual-Symposium-1996.pdf (http://ncvs.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-Voice-Foundations-25th-Annual-Symposium-1996.pdf), page 12 (June 9, 9:45am).
Kim presented his at the very same symposium (its 36th edition) in 2007 (couldn't find the program on the web, sadly).
http://yesonvc.net/en/introduce/researchView.asp?idx=25 (http://yesonvc.net/en/introduce/researchView.asp?idx=25)
It would be odd indeed if no participant (or even the committee in charge of the symposium) had noted the similarity of the two approaches, wouldn't it? OTOH, they're 11 years apart, and transgender issues are probably not the most important thing on their minds.
Regards,
Amy
now I know a few more things about the history of glottoplasty or VFS-AAC:
Apparently, Gross et al. presented his technique at the Voice Foundation's 25th annual symposium in 1996:
http://ncvs.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-Voice-Foundations-25th-Annual-Symposium-1996.pdf (http://ncvs.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-Voice-Foundations-25th-Annual-Symposium-1996.pdf), page 12 (June 9, 9:45am).
Kim presented his at the very same symposium (its 36th edition) in 2007 (couldn't find the program on the web, sadly).
http://yesonvc.net/en/introduce/researchView.asp?idx=25 (http://yesonvc.net/en/introduce/researchView.asp?idx=25)
It would be odd indeed if no participant (or even the committee in charge of the symposium) had noted the similarity of the two approaches, wouldn't it? OTOH, they're 11 years apart, and transgender issues are probably not the most important thing on their minds.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: abbyt89 on January 13, 2014, 08:36:45 AM
Post by: abbyt89 on January 13, 2014, 08:36:45 AM
Hey guys! I'm so sorry it's been literally forever since I've updated you guys but here it goes:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0vDBHVmLylT
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0vDBHVmLylT
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on January 13, 2014, 10:37:40 AM
Post by: Shantel on January 13, 2014, 10:37:40 AM
Quote from: abbyt89 on January 13, 2014, 08:36:45 AM
Hey guys! I'm so sorry it's been literally forever since I've updated you guys but here it goes:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0vDBHVmLylT
Actually it has gotten even better than it was on your last update Abby. You sound great, look beautiful and seem good to go lady! So now what's next on the agenda for you?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LizMarie on January 13, 2014, 04:17:00 PM
Post by: LizMarie on January 13, 2014, 04:17:00 PM
You sound great to me, Abby! And I think you hit on the critical thing - you no longer have to even think about your voice. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: megan2929 on January 13, 2014, 07:29:13 PM
Post by: megan2929 on January 13, 2014, 07:29:13 PM
So I know I don't post much, but count me in as another future Yeson client. I'm reserved for Feb. 25th and now just need to troll through all these posts to see which hotel some other ladies were mentioning. I don't mind my current voice and it passes in daily life, but like Abby, I want to not even have to think about it, and to have a naturally higher pitch that is unambiguously female in all situations. I'm getting really excited about this!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 13, 2014, 08:19:15 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 13, 2014, 08:19:15 PM
Quote from: megan2929 on January 13, 2014, 07:29:13 PM
So I know I don't post much, but count me in as another future Yeson client. I'm reserved for Feb. 25th and now just need to troll through all these posts to see which hotel some other ladies were mentioning. I don't mind my current voice and it passes in daily life, but like Abby, I want to not even have to think about it, and to have a naturally higher pitch that is unambiguously female in all situations. I'm getting really excited about this!
Congrats Megan!! :)
I stayed at Hotel Prince Seoul, but I think Abby and Sarah both had better accommodations that were closer to Yeson.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 14, 2014, 02:44:07 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 14, 2014, 02:44:07 AM
Hi Megan,
Congratulations! Saskia and me are going 2 months later. I'm very happy for you and so looking forward to it myself!
Jenny, Abby, and Sarah on this forum have done a great job documenting their results. Given the bad rep voice surgery still has, this has already worked wonders in reassuring people that the Yeson procedure is a different and much more viable option. Maybe you'd consider documenting yours too?
As for me, I've recorded some pre-op clips, that's all I can do for now. Posting them, without the ability to compare them with postop results, doesn't make sense. And postop recordings will have to wait until it's done :-)
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: megan2929 on January 13, 2014, 07:29:13 PM
I'm reserved for Feb. 25th
Congratulations! Saskia and me are going 2 months later. I'm very happy for you and so looking forward to it myself!
Jenny, Abby, and Sarah on this forum have done a great job documenting their results. Given the bad rep voice surgery still has, this has already worked wonders in reassuring people that the Yeson procedure is a different and much more viable option. Maybe you'd consider documenting yours too?
As for me, I've recorded some pre-op clips, that's all I can do for now. Posting them, without the ability to compare them with postop results, doesn't make sense. And postop recordings will have to wait until it's done :-)
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 14, 2014, 03:07:36 AM
Post by: anjaq on January 14, 2014, 03:07:36 AM
Thanks for the update, Abby :) - Good to hear that you are doing well and that it is effortless for you to speak with this good voice of yours now - really great. Sadly at least for me the recording is not that great - I guess either my headphones at work here are not that good or the microphone you used was not good, but the recording seems to have a bit of a low sound quality :\ . But thanks anyways, cool to hear that you settled in so well :)
Megan, I totally support what Amy was saying. it would be awesome if you could also document your experience and also add some audio clips. Maybe Amy can tell you of the different recordings she made, she is so great at figuring out how to make this really sciency almost :P - if not, even just a bit of a pre/post comparison would be already helping tons and really appreciated. I know if I should do this surgery at some time, I definitely would post recordings (but no video, I am too paranoid on that ;) ). Hope you consider it...
And have a safe trip and great experience and result there - February is not far away now... :) :D
Greetings
Megan, I totally support what Amy was saying. it would be awesome if you could also document your experience and also add some audio clips. Maybe Amy can tell you of the different recordings she made, she is so great at figuring out how to make this really sciency almost :P - if not, even just a bit of a pre/post comparison would be already helping tons and really appreciated. I know if I should do this surgery at some time, I definitely would post recordings (but no video, I am too paranoid on that ;) ). Hope you consider it...
And have a safe trip and great experience and result there - February is not far away now... :) :D
Greetings
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: megan2929 on January 15, 2014, 09:16:02 AM
Post by: megan2929 on January 15, 2014, 09:16:02 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on January 13, 2014, 08:19:15 PM
I stayed at Hotel Prince Seoul, but I think Abby and Sarah both had better accommodations that were closer to Yeson.
Jenny, did you like Myeongdong? I'm thinking of staying in that area as well for the shopping and free makeup samples! I figure it's not too hard to get over to Yeson 3 times by subway or taxi.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on January 15, 2014, 09:22:34 AM
Post by: Shantel on January 15, 2014, 09:22:34 AM
Megan,
Will you be doing before and after voice comparisons here? So far it's been so inspiring listening to the other women's great vocal changes.
Will you be doing before and after voice comparisons here? So far it's been so inspiring listening to the other women's great vocal changes.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: megan2929 on January 15, 2014, 11:32:07 AM
Post by: megan2929 on January 15, 2014, 11:32:07 AM
Quote from: Shantel on January 15, 2014, 09:22:34 AM
Megan,
Will you be doing before and after voice comparisons here? So far it's been so inspiring listening to the other women's great vocal changes.
Yes I'll definitely try.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 15, 2014, 02:44:10 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 15, 2014, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: megan2929 on January 15, 2014, 09:16:02 AM
Jenny, did you like Myeongdong? I'm thinking of staying in that area as well for the shopping and free makeup samples! I figure it's not too hard to get over to Yeson 3 times by subway or taxi.
Yeah I definitely did like it a lot, but I could only handle that shopping arena about twice. It's pretty overwhelming! Tons of great food though, too.
And yeah, I just took a taxi every time I went to Yeson. They are sooooo cheap in Seoul.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 01:45:21 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 01:45:21 AM
Hey guys!
I'm new to here but I've been viewing this post for a long time :P
In fact, I just went to Yeson (and I'm still in Seoul!) for this VFS and I'm gonna share a different experience in Yeson ;D
I think I went through all that "a" "e" "i" "o" "u" things and "low note" "high note" as most of you did and then I read a passage.
After the examinations, Dr. Kim told me, "Your vocal folds are already in female length and female shape, even on the smaller side of the average" and then he dismissed me without letting me do this surgery for the reason that "If I perform this surgery for you, it will just be a very artificial odd "male voice" speaking in 230-ish Hz if you don't learn how to speak like a female(!!), and after you learn, both your male and female voices will sound artificially too high" :'(
He also told me, when I attempted to hit soprano C when he made me do a falsetto, I'm using female mechanism instead of male falsetto.
I was so surprised and happy, but also sad with "why I still sound like a dude with a gifted female cords", and I tried to persuade myself by: "Michael Maniaci is a natural male soprano, and he still speaks like a male" :'(
So this trip I'm left with infinitely many curiosities.
To those of you who actually went over this surgery, did you learn minimally any kind of vocal technique or voice therapy to make your voice sound female? I never tried... and my speaking is always very deep-chesty-heavy (aka you can feel your breast vibrating really hard when speaking).
I'm new to here but I've been viewing this post for a long time :P
In fact, I just went to Yeson (and I'm still in Seoul!) for this VFS and I'm gonna share a different experience in Yeson ;D
I think I went through all that "a" "e" "i" "o" "u" things and "low note" "high note" as most of you did and then I read a passage.
After the examinations, Dr. Kim told me, "Your vocal folds are already in female length and female shape, even on the smaller side of the average" and then he dismissed me without letting me do this surgery for the reason that "If I perform this surgery for you, it will just be a very artificial odd "male voice" speaking in 230-ish Hz if you don't learn how to speak like a female(!!), and after you learn, both your male and female voices will sound artificially too high" :'(
He also told me, when I attempted to hit soprano C when he made me do a falsetto, I'm using female mechanism instead of male falsetto.
I was so surprised and happy, but also sad with "why I still sound like a dude with a gifted female cords", and I tried to persuade myself by: "Michael Maniaci is a natural male soprano, and he still speaks like a male" :'(
So this trip I'm left with infinitely many curiosities.
To those of you who actually went over this surgery, did you learn minimally any kind of vocal technique or voice therapy to make your voice sound female? I never tried... and my speaking is always very deep-chesty-heavy (aka you can feel your breast vibrating really hard when speaking).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jamie D on January 21, 2014, 02:16:58 AM
Post by: Jamie D on January 21, 2014, 02:16:58 AM
Wow, Alexia! That is sort of mind-boggling.
Do you want to post a audio file?
Oh! And welcome to you.
Do you want to post a audio file?
Oh! And welcome to you.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:25:06 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:25:06 AM
Quote from: Jamie D on January 21, 2014, 02:16:58 AM
Wow, Alexia! That is sort of mind-boggling.
Do you want to post a audio file?
Oh! And welcome to you.
Probably not now XD
I hate leaving recording of my masculine voices :embarrassed:
So my issue now is: if it's already in female standard, what factors prevent it from sounding feminine :-\
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on January 21, 2014, 04:54:34 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on January 21, 2014, 04:54:34 AM
Quote from: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 01:45:21 AMThen try: http://lena.kiev.ua/voice (http://lena.kiev.ua/voice)
did you learn minimally any kind of vocal technique or voice therapy to make your voice sound female? I never tried... and my speaking is always very deep-chesty-heavy (aka you can feel your breast vibrating really hard when speaking).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 06:51:45 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 06:51:45 AM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on January 21, 2014, 04:54:34 AM
Then try: http://lena.kiev.ua/voice (http://lena.kiev.ua/voice)
Thanks Lena!
Personally I can tell that my deep-chesty-heavy voice is not really that deep voice of usual males, even those light tenors lol. I can say C5 to Eb5 is totally sustainable for me, but beyond that it becomes more like screaming - as I don't know how to use my middle voice and head voice correctly.
In fact I can sing most of Christina Aguilera songs with bad belting technique, bad quality as I've never learnt how to do them correctly (i.e. F5-G5-G#5) :P
One thing I really hate is to be classified as a tenor because of gender. This sucks, and I hate the word tenor for no reason ::) Doesn't "soprano" sound way better? :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 21, 2014, 06:59:09 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 21, 2014, 06:59:09 AM
Dear Alexia,
this is quite a story you're posting here.
Well, then it seems to be that pitch is not your problem, but resonance. And that's not the good doctor's fault.
Can you put this in context: what is soprano C for you? The soprano range has 3 Cs:
So in essence, can you provide us with your range? Lowest and highest pitch you can comfortably hit, plus F0 (speaking pitch average). Dr. Kim should have given you a printout with all this information on it.
The lowest pitch you can comfortably hit is usually the best clue for voice type.
Regards,
Amy
this is quite a story you're posting here.
Quote from: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 01:45:21 AM
After the examinations, Dr. Kim told me, "Your vocal folds are already in female length and female shape, even on the smaller side of the average" and then he dismissed me without letting me do this surgery for the reason that "If I perform this surgery for you, it will just be a very artificial odd "male voice" speaking in 230-ish Hz if you don't learn how to speak like a female(!!), and after you learn, both your male and female voices will sound artificially too high" :'(
Well, then it seems to be that pitch is not your problem, but resonance. And that's not the good doctor's fault.
Quote from: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 01:45:21 AM
He also told me, when I attempted to hit soprano C when he made me do a falsetto, I'm using female mechanism instead of male falsetto.
Can you put this in context: what is soprano C for you? The soprano range has 3 Cs:
- middle C on the piano, aka C4 (that's the one everybody can sing, regardless of voice type),
- the one an octave above, C5, just over midway in treble clef (that's "tenor high C"),
- and C6 above treble clef, soprano high C (Queen of the Night is a perfect fourth above that still).
So in essence, can you provide us with your range? Lowest and highest pitch you can comfortably hit, plus F0 (speaking pitch average). Dr. Kim should have given you a printout with all this information on it.
The lowest pitch you can comfortably hit is usually the best clue for voice type.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 08:59:47 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 08:59:47 AM
Thanks Amy for replying!
You're probably one of the persons here who I hope can give me an explanation cuz you know so much in singing ;D
So the soprano C I was indicating is the C6 - Soprano High C. I'm sure it's not falsetto and glad my cords aren't "corrupted" by testosterone.
By comfortably hitting, F3 is usable without any modifications, but with pushing the larynx down I can go to A2 (and the volume will decrease) - that's the lowest, and then no matter how harsh I push it's gonna be fry. (well Mariah Carey goes down to G2... shameful to me)
and then I go up to Eb6 with a connected voice, head to chest, vice versa, ascending and descending. I don't have whistle register.
and as comfortably high - I will say it's Bb5. This question is quite hard for me since I had a bad singing habit - always pushing chest up too much and not knowing how to pass passaggio smoothly (i.e. I always work too hard, and even feel uncomfortable if I don't "attack" on high notes - despite I can.)
Seems like my voice is always muffled until E4.
You're probably one of the persons here who I hope can give me an explanation cuz you know so much in singing ;D
So the soprano C I was indicating is the C6 - Soprano High C. I'm sure it's not falsetto and glad my cords aren't "corrupted" by testosterone.
By comfortably hitting, F3 is usable without any modifications, but with pushing the larynx down I can go to A2 (and the volume will decrease) - that's the lowest, and then no matter how harsh I push it's gonna be fry. (well Mariah Carey goes down to G2... shameful to me)
and then I go up to Eb6 with a connected voice, head to chest, vice versa, ascending and descending. I don't have whistle register.
and as comfortably high - I will say it's Bb5. This question is quite hard for me since I had a bad singing habit - always pushing chest up too much and not knowing how to pass passaggio smoothly (i.e. I always work too hard, and even feel uncomfortable if I don't "attack" on high notes - despite I can.)
Seems like my voice is always muffled until E4.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 09:29:13 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 09:29:13 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on January 21, 2014, 06:59:09 AM
Dear Alexia,
this is quite a story you're posting here.
Well, then it seems to be that pitch is not your problem, but resonance. And that's not the good doctor's fault.
Can you put this in context: what is soprano C for you? The soprano range has 3 Cs:Can you tell us which one you're referring to as "soprano C"? Soprano high C is usually out of range for testosterone-modified vocal cords, although my friend Martin – quite a tenor –, who died in 2002, was able to hit it with lots of force.
- middle C on the piano, aka C4 (that's the one everybody can sing, regardless of voice type),
- the one an octave above, C5, just over midway in treble clef (that's "tenor high C"),
- and C6 above treble clef, soprano high C (Queen of the Night is a perfect fourth above that still).
So in essence, can you provide us with your range? Lowest and highest pitch you can comfortably hit, plus F0 (speaking pitch average). Dr. Kim should have given you a printout with all this information on it.
The lowest pitch you can comfortably hit is usually the best clue for voice type.
Regards,
Amy
BTW, I would definitely recommend Dr. Kim to you, Amy. He is knowledgeable, honest, and patient. He knows both really well in speaking and singing since there are a lot of professional K-POP singers having treatments with him. I asked him about an hour of questions (and most of the patients only get 10 minutes to meet him lol). I even discussed some questions about singing with him!
He mentioned that the result of this VFS surgery is not gonna make you a soprano, or even mezzo - only alto - for whatever reason if you were not one of those voice types, but falsetto will disappear after the surgery since one can hit the note with modal head voice (which is more natural). Singing is more complicated according to him, it involves physiological muscle differences, tissue density, and the pattern of how to use these muscles in your brain (I think you're fine with this cuz you're professional and can control :P), but he's not willing to tell me so much in detail.
Statistically, based only on the size of the vocal cords, mine sit in the range or high-mezzo and low-soprano, but I don't use it properly. C6 is probably the highest note I can go with bad techniques and little effort, and without pushing and squeaking my throat. I rarely sing with head voice (una voce poco fa in Maria Callas's key is probably the "upper comfortable limit" to me, and Queen of the night is beyond my range - I can't get that F6). But Bb5 is a piece of cake - the high note Christina sang in Run to You.
I don't know whether this is correct and I hope you can answer me, Amy. Might "habits" influences one's comfortable range in some aspect? For example, Maria Callas has a low speaking voice and tends to use deep resonance in speaking - and that made a dramatic soprano being misclassified as a contra-alto, and in fact in a recording she sings really easily and heavily in A3 chest. So if biological females were taught to speak with deep resonance and low-larynx since they start talking, will they end be like this girl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpU6NoDvvVI?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 09:40:31 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 09:40:31 AM
F0 (speaking pitch average): 161 Hz with male and chest resonance (high end about 232 Hz, low end about 83 Hz)
F0 (ah): 198 Hz, I just follow the note produced by the nurse - and the interpreter told me it's too high, but I wasn't able to go lower, so I ended up with this number.
F0 (ah): 198 Hz, I just follow the note produced by the nurse - and the interpreter told me it's too high, but I wasn't able to go lower, so I ended up with this number.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 10:38:00 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 10:38:00 AM
So Amy,
Let me ask you a question: what does comfortably singing mean? Is it like, not purposely lowering your volume and larynx?
If that is the definition, my lower comfortable end is probably really close to the F0 in "ah" which is G3 (196 Hz). I have an abrupt drop of volume from A3 to G3 and requires some lowering of larynx. As for A2-G3, it is sustainable, but muffled, and can be clearly perceived as a male voice with chest resonance add-in.
So I think voice therapy is gonna be hard for me since I always spoke in low larynx, I intentionally pressed down my voice as I didn't want people to view me as a fag, and that forms a bad habit here :-X But apparently the pitch goes way higher when I laugh (people all look at me), and my mom blamed me for being girly.
I also have some genetic tremor (as Spasmodic Dysphonia) on vocal cords and Dr. Kim suggests Botox every 3 months. This requires me to use about 5-8x of airflow and tension to speak & sing comparing to normal people - which I believe have strongly lowered my passaggio. It's sad cuz he said this is not curable - which means Botox injection is REQUIRED every three months (and life-long!) otherwise the vocal ability will be unstable :'(
Let me ask you a question: what does comfortably singing mean? Is it like, not purposely lowering your volume and larynx?
If that is the definition, my lower comfortable end is probably really close to the F0 in "ah" which is G3 (196 Hz). I have an abrupt drop of volume from A3 to G3 and requires some lowering of larynx. As for A2-G3, it is sustainable, but muffled, and can be clearly perceived as a male voice with chest resonance add-in.
So I think voice therapy is gonna be hard for me since I always spoke in low larynx, I intentionally pressed down my voice as I didn't want people to view me as a fag, and that forms a bad habit here :-X But apparently the pitch goes way higher when I laugh (people all look at me), and my mom blamed me for being girly.
I also have some genetic tremor (as Spasmodic Dysphonia) on vocal cords and Dr. Kim suggests Botox every 3 months. This requires me to use about 5-8x of airflow and tension to speak & sing comparing to normal people - which I believe have strongly lowered my passaggio. It's sad cuz he said this is not curable - which means Botox injection is REQUIRED every three months (and life-long!) otherwise the vocal ability will be unstable :'(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 12:06:49 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 12:06:49 PM
Definitely an Alto here, or at least I'm working on it :)
Thanks for the info from Dr. Kim about singing. That seems to make a great deal of sense to me now.
Also, alexia, I had particularly (extremely) long and thick vocal cords, but my mean F0 was 140hz. I think I may have had even a lower F0 and I was trying to make it sound less boomy during the consultation. My speaking F0 now is somewhere around 200-205hz talking normally (to people I know) and up to 225hz around strangers.
Perhaps my difficulty reaching a fully alto range at the top is the thickness of my vocal cords. Not that I want to mess with my voice at all, but I wonder if laser thinning of the vocal membrane is something Dr. Kim will add to the procedure in future years. My hunch is that he's already looked into it and doesn't do it for some reason... Maybe it is hard to guarantee a symmetrical outcome.
Thanks for the info from Dr. Kim about singing. That seems to make a great deal of sense to me now.
Also, alexia, I had particularly (extremely) long and thick vocal cords, but my mean F0 was 140hz. I think I may have had even a lower F0 and I was trying to make it sound less boomy during the consultation. My speaking F0 now is somewhere around 200-205hz talking normally (to people I know) and up to 225hz around strangers.
Perhaps my difficulty reaching a fully alto range at the top is the thickness of my vocal cords. Not that I want to mess with my voice at all, but I wonder if laser thinning of the vocal membrane is something Dr. Kim will add to the procedure in future years. My hunch is that he's already looked into it and doesn't do it for some reason... Maybe it is hard to guarantee a symmetrical outcome.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 21, 2014, 12:37:25 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 21, 2014, 12:37:25 PM
Dear Alexia,
wow, this is a lot of information to reply to. To me your range doesn't read masculine at all, not in the slightest. To give you my figures:
lowest possible note: D2, lowest comfortable note E2, about 3 octaves of comfortably connected voice from there, with a transition area E4-G4 (roughly), highest comfortable note F5, highest possible note G#5. That's quite a difference to yours. You see, for me C6 is totally out of range. And my lowest, say, fifth is totally out of range for you.
At the low end, a tenor needs to have a C3 at the least, which is already in the uncomfortable/very soft zone for you. So your range is definitely much higher than a tenor's. So in my opinion, you don't need pitch-raising surgery at all, but rather a good voice instructor that will teach you proper resonance and support and you'll be good to go.
And of course speaking/singing habits directly influence range. Not all resonances or even vowels are obtainable at all pitches. The girl singing "Happy Birthday" was just making use of Overdrive (aka male resonance) in her lower register, which is perfectly permissible. Rock singers like Melissa Etheridge do it all the time.
You said your F0 speaking was 161 Hz. That's an E3. You must have REALLY pressed it down. And bottoming out another octave lower... something's wrong here. This all doesn't make sense to me. You said that your voice starts thinning out below A3/G3. Then it doesn't make sense at all that you should have spoken at an E3.
And by "comfortably hitting" I mean "not with outrageous amounts of support" or "not only at high/low volumes". The range that's always there, no matter the circumstances. Of course you'll have to modify resonance and larynx position over a 3-or-so octave range.
Hope this helps,
Amy
wow, this is a lot of information to reply to. To me your range doesn't read masculine at all, not in the slightest. To give you my figures:
lowest possible note: D2, lowest comfortable note E2, about 3 octaves of comfortably connected voice from there, with a transition area E4-G4 (roughly), highest comfortable note F5, highest possible note G#5. That's quite a difference to yours. You see, for me C6 is totally out of range. And my lowest, say, fifth is totally out of range for you.
At the low end, a tenor needs to have a C3 at the least, which is already in the uncomfortable/very soft zone for you. So your range is definitely much higher than a tenor's. So in my opinion, you don't need pitch-raising surgery at all, but rather a good voice instructor that will teach you proper resonance and support and you'll be good to go.
And of course speaking/singing habits directly influence range. Not all resonances or even vowels are obtainable at all pitches. The girl singing "Happy Birthday" was just making use of Overdrive (aka male resonance) in her lower register, which is perfectly permissible. Rock singers like Melissa Etheridge do it all the time.
You said your F0 speaking was 161 Hz. That's an E3. You must have REALLY pressed it down. And bottoming out another octave lower... something's wrong here. This all doesn't make sense to me. You said that your voice starts thinning out below A3/G3. Then it doesn't make sense at all that you should have spoken at an E3.
And by "comfortably hitting" I mean "not with outrageous amounts of support" or "not only at high/low volumes". The range that's always there, no matter the circumstances. Of course you'll have to modify resonance and larynx position over a 3-or-so octave range.
Hope this helps,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:07:05 PM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:07:05 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 12:06:49 PM
Definitely an Alto here, or at least I'm working on it :)
Thanks for the info from Dr. Kim about singing. That seems to make a great deal of sense to me now.
Also, alexia, I had particularly (extremely) long and thick vocal cords, but my mean F0 was 140hz. I think I may have had even a lower F0 and I was trying to make it sound less boomy during the consultation. My speaking F0 now is somewhere around 200-205hz talking normally (to people I know) and up to 225hz around strangers.
Perhaps my difficulty reaching a fully alto range at the top is the thickness of my vocal cords. Not that I want to mess with my voice at all, but I wonder if laser thinning of the vocal membrane is something Dr. Kim will add to the procedure in future years. My hunch is that he's already looked into it and doesn't do it for some reason... Maybe it is hard to guarantee a symmetrical outcome.
Thanks Jenny for replying :P
According to previous tutorial link provided by Lena, I think the tracheal shave indeed helps instead of lowering your voice!
One information I heard from Dr. Kim is that besides the difference in "size" of the folds, the rigidness of that portion is also a factor influencing one's voice. So you might lose some power in holding notes, but that's more alike a biological female's part (influencing agility) ;)
Mine is not visible, even when I raise my head there's almost nothing there - but I think there indeed is something there! Perhaps myself have no conscious that the muscle is stiffer and less agile so that it always sounds masculine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:23:38 PM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:23:38 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on January 21, 2014, 12:37:25 PM
Dear Alexia,
wow, this is a lot of information to reply to. To me your range doesn't read masculine at all, not in the slightest. To give you my figures:
lowest possible note: D2, lowest comfortable note E2, about 3 octaves of comfortably connected voice from there, with a transition area E4-G4 (roughly), highest comfortable note F5, highest possible note G#5. That's quite a difference to yours. You see, for me C6 is totally out of range. And my lowest, say, fifth is totally out of range for you.
At the low end, a tenor needs to have a C3 at the least, which is already in the uncomfortable/very soft zone for you. So your range is definitely much higher than a tenor's. So in my opinion, you don't need pitch-raising surgery at all, but rather a good voice instructor that will teach you proper resonance and support and you'll be good to go.
And of course speaking/singing habits directly influence range. Not all resonances or even vowels are obtainable at all pitches. The girl singing "Happy Birthday" was just making use of Overdrive (aka male resonance) in her lower register, which is perfectly permissible. Rock singers like Melissa Etheridge do it all the time.
You said your F0 speaking was 161 Hz. That's an E3. You must have REALLY pressed it down. And bottoming out another octave lower... something's wrong here. This all doesn't make sense to me. You said that your voice starts thinning out below A3/G3. Then it doesn't make sense at all that you should have spoken at an E3.
And by "comfortably hitting" I mean "not with outrageous amounts of support" or "not only at high/low volumes". The range that's always there, no matter the circumstances. Of course you'll have to modify resonance and larynx position over a 3-or-so octave range.
Hope this helps,
Amy
Thanks for the reply, Amy!
"You said your F0 speaking was 161 Hz. That's an E3. You must have REALLY pressed it down. And bottoming out another octave lower... something's wrong here. This all doesn't make sense to me. You said that your voice starts thinning out below A3/G3. Then it doesn't make sense at all that you should have spoken at an E3."
I feel very true for this, and I feel very creepy when speaking in that way. When I speak like this I have two feelings: 1. people often asks me "what was I saying" and 2. I can't make conversations smoothly, I have to breath very fast and cut a sentence into several halves.
I have a really loud voice (I think this is probably the result I get from adapting genetic tremor), so it's not reasonable for people to ask "what I was saying". But I also feel that when I tried to speak on A3, my voice is way way too loud. Again, it's probably because of tremor, but I have no idea; I'm gonna see what happens after Botox injection. According to Dr. Kim, people with tremor tend to use very low voice or very high voice (that will be falsetto), and I have no feeling that I'm using upper part of my voice at all.
E2 is way beyond my range :P Even with vocal fry. I'm still not clear on it because it seems like I have to use way more airflow and forces on everything so nothing's truly comfortable :embarrassed:
For example, is the low note (D3) Christina sings here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jusP47mMThI considered comfortable? I might get an idea from this.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 04:30:58 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 04:30:58 PM
Your welcome :) I would consider myself very lucky if I were you. The only thing you need to worry about is isolating and strengthening the muscles that hold your larynx up and back... creating a female resonance to match your already female-sized vocal cords. Lena's page on resonance is an amazing resource, if I would have had it in the beginning I probably would have figured it out much sooner.
Thanks again Lena :D
I had success with a few of Kathe Perez' mp3s early on that had some decent resonance exercises. The thing that stuck with me was trying to sound like kermit the frog. I used the kermit the frog throat position as a way of weightlifting with my larynx- or something like that. It was a quick way to get warmed up at least.
You are definitely very lucky. As soon as you train your larynx, your voice will sound undeniably female. Getting used to it and integrating it is indeed the hardest part. Heck that's the whole reason I had this surgery (voice integration). But with the range you have now, you should consider yourself an incredibly lucky person. Dr. Kim is right! Even just the slightest bit of resonance modification and female sounding inflection will go a long way for you.
Keep re-reading Lena's page ;) And keep us updated on the resonance stuff. I would love to hear your voice!
Thanks again Lena :D
I had success with a few of Kathe Perez' mp3s early on that had some decent resonance exercises. The thing that stuck with me was trying to sound like kermit the frog. I used the kermit the frog throat position as a way of weightlifting with my larynx- or something like that. It was a quick way to get warmed up at least.
You are definitely very lucky. As soon as you train your larynx, your voice will sound undeniably female. Getting used to it and integrating it is indeed the hardest part. Heck that's the whole reason I had this surgery (voice integration). But with the range you have now, you should consider yourself an incredibly lucky person. Dr. Kim is right! Even just the slightest bit of resonance modification and female sounding inflection will go a long way for you.
Keep re-reading Lena's page ;) And keep us updated on the resonance stuff. I would love to hear your voice!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 12:06:49 PM
Definitely an Alto here, or at least I'm working on it :)
Thanks for the info from Dr. Kim about singing. That seems to make a great deal of sense to me now.
Also, alexia, I had particularly (extremely) long and thick vocal cords, but my mean F0 was 140hz. I think I may have had even a lower F0 and I was trying to make it sound less boomy during the consultation. My speaking F0 now is somewhere around 200-205hz talking normally (to people I know) and up to 225hz around strangers.
Perhaps my difficulty reaching a fully alto range at the top is the thickness of my vocal cords. Not that I want to mess with my voice at all, but I wonder if laser thinning of the vocal membrane is something Dr. Kim will add to the procedure in future years. My hunch is that he's already looked into it and doesn't do it for some reason... Maybe it is hard to guarantee a symmetrical outcome.
Dear Jenny,
Laser thinning out is definitely dangerous :o as vocal cords are not just soft tissues ::)
I don't think Dr. Kim will perform this. I did some researches on tremor and found out that one surgical treatment for it is "laser thinning out vocal membrane", but it has extremely unpredictable complications (some people even lose their voices!!) - I guess that's why Dr. Kim, and even Dr. Thomas uses Botox only for tremor.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:36:45 PM
Post by: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:36:45 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 04:30:58 PM
Your welcome :) I would consider myself very lucky if I were you. The only thing you need to worry about is isolating and strengthening the muscles that hold your larynx up and back... creating a female resonance to match your already female-sized vocal cords. Lena's page on resonance is an amazing resource, if I would have had it in the beginning I probably would have figured it out much sooner.
Thanks again Lena :D
I had success with a few of Kathe Perez' mp3s early on that had some decent resonance exercises. The thing that stuck with me was trying to sound like kermit the frog. I used the kermit the frog throat position as a way of weightlifting with my larynx- or something like that. It was a quick way to get warmed up at least.
You are definitely very lucky. As soon as you train your larynx, your voice will sound undeniably female. Getting used to it and integrating it is indeed the hardest part. Heck that's the whole reason I had this surgery (voice integration). But with the range you have now, you should consider yourself an incredibly lucky person. Dr. Kim is right! Even just the slightest bit of resonance modification and female sounding inflection will go a long way for you.
Keep re-reading Lena's page ;) And keep us updated on the resonance stuff. I would love to hear your voice!
I feel so happy if even you say this ;D
I'm definitely gonna try Kathe Perez's MP3, I think it will be useful, and I probably don't have to raise my larynx so much.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 04:44:35 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 21, 2014, 04:44:35 PM
Quote from: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
Dear Jenny,
Laser thinning out is definitely dangerous :o as vocal cords are not just soft tissues ::)
I don't think Dr. Kim will perform this. I did some researches on tremor and found out that one surgical treatment for it is "laser thinning out vocal membrane", but it has extremely unpredictable complications (some people even lose their voices!!) - I guess that's why Dr. Kim, and even Dr. Thomas uses Botox only for tremor.
Yeah I watched a video of the laser on vocal cords one time (I can't seem to find it these days) and it scared the crap out of me. It's hard to watch. I think it was from a place in New York.
I know Dr. Thomas does do lasering of the vocal cords because I have seen and read about a few patients of his that went back for "laser retuning" or something. I'm pretty sure he even mentions it on the website as a revisionary type of thing. It is no wonder his whole VFS procedure is so risky, even the revisions themselves are risky.
Quote from: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:36:45 PM
I feel so happy if even you say this ;D
I'm definitely gonna try Kathe Perez's MP3, I think it will be useful, and I probably don't have to raise my larynx so much.
Good! You should be happy! Yeah I don't think it will be hard for you at all. Also I have a hunch that the vocal tremor might resolve once you start talking within the range which your voice is built ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 22, 2014, 03:57:51 AM
Post by: anjaq on January 22, 2014, 03:57:51 AM
I am not sure I would want to recommend laser treatments. I heard that it can increase pitch by 2 semitones and make the voice less "boomy", but it causes some scarring on the vocal chords which means that the voice could become a bit hoarse or raspy. But I am no expert in that. Someone I know was suggested this as a minimally invasive treatment by Dr Thomas actually, so he does that, but she did not think it was worth it.
alex, I would be so happy, if I were you. Only bugger that maybe you could have found out about this before you went through all the trouble of saving up money and organizing a trip to Korea ;) - But then again, Seoul certainly is a interesting place for a short vacation. From how it sounds to me you did not really get a drop in voice in puberty, so you are very lucky. But you learned how to speak in a lowered and maculine sounding voice, in part deliberatly. On the upside this basically just means you have to unlearn these patterns and you will be naturally female sounding. On the downside it means that you probably still would need some voice therapy. Maybe you dont even have to do all the things that are done in trans-specific voice training but just learn how to use your voice in a physiological (natural, fitting to your larynx biology) way. This is something a lot of people are doing in voice therapy. You can certainly try Lenas suggestion or youtube.search for the CandiFla videos or even check out the old Melanie Anne Phillips voice lessons. They all operate on the concept of using the larynx muscles differently so that the larynx moves up a bit. A common way to do this is to go into that falsetto range where the male resonance goes away, you described this already and then keep the resonance and lower the voice again. Also relaxing the jaw seems to work great. But I think the best would be you take some of the money you wanted to spend on Dr Kim and get a good voice therapist and book a couple of lessons with her and you probably will be fine. What may be needed are some additional lessons or hours on liberating other parts of the voice like intonation, melody and such - people regarded as males are trained to speak in a different way and that also has to be unlearned. Again a speech therapist may help there, though maybe for that it would be beneficial to have one with gender related experiences.
So dont be sad that Dr Kim could not help, be happy that he did not need to help :D
Bummer about the trmor though - what does it result in, what does it do to your voice? Is it really having a negative effect that much and would that be alleviated with Botox? He told me I have a tremor too in the remote consultation, but I think almost all who went to him had such a tremor and got botox after VFS - I think it is also why the voices change still abit between the official 2 months post op videos and 6 months, as the botox wears off and some aspects of the voice that were softened are returning. But would botox not also cause a loss in loudness and intensity of the voice?
Maybe vocal termour can also be somehow be managed with voice training?
Anyways I am again glad that Dr Kim seems to be rather honest - he did not just take the money and do a surgery but aimed to have the best result for the people who come to him. Thats good. He basically told me to not have the VFS at this time due to some voice issues as well, so I get the feeling he will really only do the procedure if he is convinced it will be beneficial and work out.
Greetings
alex, I would be so happy, if I were you. Only bugger that maybe you could have found out about this before you went through all the trouble of saving up money and organizing a trip to Korea ;) - But then again, Seoul certainly is a interesting place for a short vacation. From how it sounds to me you did not really get a drop in voice in puberty, so you are very lucky. But you learned how to speak in a lowered and maculine sounding voice, in part deliberatly. On the upside this basically just means you have to unlearn these patterns and you will be naturally female sounding. On the downside it means that you probably still would need some voice therapy. Maybe you dont even have to do all the things that are done in trans-specific voice training but just learn how to use your voice in a physiological (natural, fitting to your larynx biology) way. This is something a lot of people are doing in voice therapy. You can certainly try Lenas suggestion or youtube.search for the CandiFla videos or even check out the old Melanie Anne Phillips voice lessons. They all operate on the concept of using the larynx muscles differently so that the larynx moves up a bit. A common way to do this is to go into that falsetto range where the male resonance goes away, you described this already and then keep the resonance and lower the voice again. Also relaxing the jaw seems to work great. But I think the best would be you take some of the money you wanted to spend on Dr Kim and get a good voice therapist and book a couple of lessons with her and you probably will be fine. What may be needed are some additional lessons or hours on liberating other parts of the voice like intonation, melody and such - people regarded as males are trained to speak in a different way and that also has to be unlearned. Again a speech therapist may help there, though maybe for that it would be beneficial to have one with gender related experiences.
So dont be sad that Dr Kim could not help, be happy that he did not need to help :D
Bummer about the trmor though - what does it result in, what does it do to your voice? Is it really having a negative effect that much and would that be alleviated with Botox? He told me I have a tremor too in the remote consultation, but I think almost all who went to him had such a tremor and got botox after VFS - I think it is also why the voices change still abit between the official 2 months post op videos and 6 months, as the botox wears off and some aspects of the voice that were softened are returning. But would botox not also cause a loss in loudness and intensity of the voice?
Maybe vocal termour can also be somehow be managed with voice training?
Anyways I am again glad that Dr Kim seems to be rather honest - he did not just take the money and do a surgery but aimed to have the best result for the people who come to him. Thats good. He basically told me to not have the VFS at this time due to some voice issues as well, so I get the feeling he will really only do the procedure if he is convinced it will be beneficial and work out.
Greetings
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 05:44:57 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 05:44:57 AM
Quote from: anjaq on January 22, 2014, 03:57:51 AM
I am not sure I would want to recommend laser treatments. I heard that it can increase pitch by 2 semitones and make the voice less "boomy", but it causes some scarring on the vocal chords which means that the voice could become a bit hoarse or raspy. But I am no expert in that. Someone I know was suggested this as a minimally invasive treatment by Dr Thomas actually, so he does that, but she did not think it was worth it.
alex, I would be so happy, if I were you. Only bugger that maybe you could have found out about this before you went through all the trouble of saving up money and organizing a trip to Korea ;) - But then again, Seoul certainly is a interesting place for a short vacation. From how it sounds to me you did not really get a drop in voice in puberty, so you are very lucky. But you learned how to speak in a lowered and maculine sounding voice, in part deliberatly. On the upside this basically just means you have to unlearn these patterns and you will be naturally female sounding. On the downside it means that you probably still would need some voice therapy. Maybe you dont even have to do all the things that are done in trans-specific voice training but just learn how to use your voice in a physiological (natural, fitting to your larynx biology) way. This is something a lot of people are doing in voice therapy. You can certainly try Lenas suggestion or youtube.search for the CandiFla videos or even check out the old Melanie Anne Phillips voice lessons. They all operate on the concept of using the larynx muscles differently so that the larynx moves up a bit. A common way to do this is to go into that falsetto range where the male resonance goes away, you described this already and then keep the resonance and lower the voice again. Also relaxing the jaw seems to work great. But I think the best would be you take some of the money you wanted to spend on Dr Kim and get a good voice therapist and book a couple of lessons with her and you probably will be fine. What may be needed are some additional lessons or hours on liberating other parts of the voice like intonation, melody and such - people regarded as males are trained to speak in a different way and that also has to be unlearned. Again a speech therapist may help there, though maybe for that it would be beneficial to have one with gender related experiences.
So dont be sad that Dr Kim could not help, be happy that he did not need to help :D
Bummer about the trmor though - what does it result in, what does it do to your voice? Is it really having a negative effect that much and would that be alleviated with Botox? He told me I have a tremor too in the remote consultation, but I think almost all who went to him had such a tremor and got botox after VFS - I think it is also why the voices change still abit between the official 2 months post op videos and 6 months, as the botox wears off and some aspects of the voice that were softened are returning. But would botox not also cause a loss in loudness and intensity of the voice?
Maybe vocal termour can also be somehow be managed with voice training?
Anyways I am again glad that Dr Kim seems to be rather honest - he did not just take the money and do a surgery but aimed to have the best result for the people who come to him. Thats good. He basically told me to not have the VFS at this time due to some voice issues as well, so I get the feeling he will really only do the procedure if he is convinced it will be beneficial and work out.
Greetings
Vocal therapy is definitely a need in my case I think, and it's not like my voice didn't drop in puberty, even female's voice will drop a bit :P (for example, pre-puberty's folds are only half sized! so even if a little boy speaking in male resonance it still sounds high-pitched) Also I feel like my larynx did become rigid - perhaps the size and cavity didn't grow a lot.
For tremor - it's not the kind that some of you experienced because of pro-longed time speaking in falsetto. Mine is more like genetics - aka having it since I was born. When I was young this seems to be a plus because in most cases "treble" do not have vibrato, and this kind of tremor gave me some kind of "natural vibrato" when I was a kid. Now adding in the vibrato in adult, it's just too much for the cords itself I guess.
I don't think Botox is a bad thing to vocal folds actually. It's rather popular because it expands one's vocal folds ability to maximum (like clearer and cleaner, and more stable, less shaky) Intensity is probably not the work of vocal folds I guess; I think it's more about resonance and space cavity.
Tremor of my kind is hardly treatable from vocal training because it's more related to the neuron and muscles, and even brain itself. So it's not like something you could learn easily. It's possible, but only when "muscle relax" becomes the patient's reflex action according to Dr. Kim.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jenny87 on January 22, 2014, 08:46:44 AM
Post by: Jenny87 on January 22, 2014, 08:46:44 AM
Hi everyone and thank you very much Jennygirl for making this thread :)
I'm new to these forums after lurking for a long time, I'll have to go and post in introductions after this :).
I've read through this thread a lot as I'm seriously considering going out to Yeson. If its ok I'd like to tell you what I have in mind and see if I'm making any mistakes as my doctor isn't very keen on the idea of traveling to Korea for voice surgery :(. I've been in contact with Yeson and am so excited by the prospect of their procedure and what it could do for my quality of life! I can not wait to book and confirm dates with them more than anything but Im not sure if my excitement is getting in the way of making the best decision.
To put it simply my voice really gets to me, I feel extremely uncomfortable when having to speak and like many others here I don't want to have to even think about the sounds I make. I plan on going out to Korea in June and by that point I will have been on HRT for 4 months. I'm 26 and in the UK, currently part time and just legally changed my name this afternoon :)
I haven't yet had any formal voice coaching. Do you think this may be too soon? Should I have my vocal range tested somewhere before, is that what most people do?
Sorry I've only come here with questions but when I go out I promise i'll give people all the information they want and as many updates as are asked for :)
Thank you to everyone in this thread, all the information is so wonderful :)
Jennifer
I'm new to these forums after lurking for a long time, I'll have to go and post in introductions after this :).
I've read through this thread a lot as I'm seriously considering going out to Yeson. If its ok I'd like to tell you what I have in mind and see if I'm making any mistakes as my doctor isn't very keen on the idea of traveling to Korea for voice surgery :(. I've been in contact with Yeson and am so excited by the prospect of their procedure and what it could do for my quality of life! I can not wait to book and confirm dates with them more than anything but Im not sure if my excitement is getting in the way of making the best decision.
To put it simply my voice really gets to me, I feel extremely uncomfortable when having to speak and like many others here I don't want to have to even think about the sounds I make. I plan on going out to Korea in June and by that point I will have been on HRT for 4 months. I'm 26 and in the UK, currently part time and just legally changed my name this afternoon :)
I haven't yet had any formal voice coaching. Do you think this may be too soon? Should I have my vocal range tested somewhere before, is that what most people do?
Sorry I've only come here with questions but when I go out I promise i'll give people all the information they want and as many updates as are asked for :)
Thank you to everyone in this thread, all the information is so wonderful :)
Jennifer
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 22, 2014, 09:06:18 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 22, 2014, 09:06:18 AM
Jenny87- welcome to the forums first of all :D
I'm super glad you have found this thread to be useful! That is why it's here after all!
As far as your own situation, I would definitely recommend getting your voice to a point where you are at least semi-happy with it in private before having this surgery. The keyword here is practice! Practice in the car, at home, or anywhere you feel safe to be making noises that might seem a little uncomfortable at first.
I did most of my practice in the car to and from work ;)
Mostly what you need to work on for a smooth transition after having this surgery is feminine inflection, word choice, and resonance. Also make sure not to over-practice as this can lead to damage of the vocal tissues which is not what you want before this surgery. So, if at any point you feel strained or hoarse, immediately stop practice and come back to it later. Your voice will get stronger, just need to keep at it!
If you have any more questions feel free to post them here or wherever in the voice therapy forum. And once again welcome to Susan's! Congrats on de-lurking ;)
I'm super glad you have found this thread to be useful! That is why it's here after all!
As far as your own situation, I would definitely recommend getting your voice to a point where you are at least semi-happy with it in private before having this surgery. The keyword here is practice! Practice in the car, at home, or anywhere you feel safe to be making noises that might seem a little uncomfortable at first.
I did most of my practice in the car to and from work ;)
Mostly what you need to work on for a smooth transition after having this surgery is feminine inflection, word choice, and resonance. Also make sure not to over-practice as this can lead to damage of the vocal tissues which is not what you want before this surgery. So, if at any point you feel strained or hoarse, immediately stop practice and come back to it later. Your voice will get stronger, just need to keep at it!
If you have any more questions feel free to post them here or wherever in the voice therapy forum. And once again welcome to Susan's! Congrats on de-lurking ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jenny87 on January 22, 2014, 09:47:53 AM
Post by: Jenny87 on January 22, 2014, 09:47:53 AM
Thanks very much for the welcome Jenny :)
I'm going to get working on my voice basically right now! :D Hopefully I can get it to a point where I'm not terrified of it by June and I'll book some dates with Yeson in the next couple of weeks depending on how I start to feel :p. I like the idea of practicing in the car, I think I'll do that too :).
I'm going to get working on my voice basically right now! :D Hopefully I can get it to a point where I'm not terrified of it by June and I'll book some dates with Yeson in the next couple of weeks depending on how I start to feel :p. I like the idea of practicing in the car, I think I'll do that too :).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on January 22, 2014, 11:59:03 AM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on January 22, 2014, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: alexiakk on January 21, 2014, 04:36:45 PMI'm definitely gonna try Kathe Perez's MP3, I think it will be useful, and I probably don't have to raise my larynx so much.You are resisting against raising larynx. Why?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 01:00:27 PM
Post by: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 01:00:27 PM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on January 22, 2014, 11:59:03 AM
You are resisting against raising larynx. Why?
Not really, but raising it "too much" will result in uncomfortable and thus hard to make it as natural habit right?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on January 22, 2014, 01:13:50 PM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on January 22, 2014, 01:13:50 PM
Quote from: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 01:00:27 PMIt's necessary for female voice.
but raising it "too much" will result in uncomfortable and thus hard to make it as natural habit right?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 22, 2014, 03:12:32 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 22, 2014, 03:12:32 PM
Quote from: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 01:00:27 PMi would say a yes to it. If you overdo it, it is kind of a strain. you need to find a good way in the middle, but it may actually be helpful to do too much at first for training and kind of get used to that and then relax it a bit to a middle. Kind of like in voice excercises for inflection this is totally exxagerated in training so it settles to a natural way when dropping the excess.
Not really, but raising it "too much" will result in uncomfortable and thus hard to make it as natural habit right?
Quote from: Jenny87 on January 22, 2014, 08:46:44 AMPersonally I would suggest you do some voice training of your own like Jenny recommended but also try and find a voice coach and do some training. They can also measure your average speaking pitch, pitch range and a ENT can also take a look at your vocal chords and make sure they are ok, which will be helpful for the decision. Voice training is needed in any case. to get resonance right and depending on how you speak now it may also be good to change the way you speak (intonation, inflection etc). If that is all good before the VFS, I think it is more likely to really be stunned by the results like one can see with Jenny. If that is not done before, I can imagine that it may not be that miracle change at first as that work will then have to be done afterwards... so maybe then one could be a bit dissapointed by pitch elevation surgery at first as the effects will only show after addintional voice coaching.
I haven't yet had any formal voice coaching. Do you think this may be too soon? Should I have my vocal range tested somewhere before, is that what most people do?
Quote from: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 05:44:57 AMOh, did Dr kim say that that is the cause of the trmor in most of his patients? I only suspected that it may be the cause for me but dont really know the cause. I assumed it also could be just a natural condition for me.
For tremor - it's not the kind that some of you experienced because of pro-longed time speaking in falsetto.
QuoteMine is more like genetics - aka having it since I was born.Hmm - ok, sounds a bit like what I am doing in voice rehab now. Try to relax relax and then tension up in a different place to make sounds. I have no idea if it will also do something against the tremor or the assymetry - the main goal is to fix the incomplete glottal closure...
Tremor of my kind is hardly treatable from vocal training because it's more related to the neuron and muscles, and even brain itself. So it's not like something you could learn easily. It's possible, but only when "muscle relax" becomes the patient's reflex action according to Dr. Kim.
So I guess for you it really is the task now to find a good voice trainer and then get working on all of these things that you learned from Dr Kim.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 23, 2014, 02:14:05 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 23, 2014, 02:14:05 AM
Dear Jenny,
welcome to the voice threads :-)
Well, the question is not what most people do, but the question is if it's useful. You have to know that there are several parameters to your voice that can be adjusted independently. One is pitch and range, that's what this surgery addresses. Female voices are higher in pitch than male ones, on average. So if your voice is medium or low for male standards, it'll be too low for female standards and this surgery may very well be for you. However, if your voice is high for male standards, it may be just right for female standards and you've nothing to gain from the procedure. Alexia's case goes to show that.
The other parameters are resonance/sound (the way you shape the tone your vocal cords make – there's are two distinct male and female patterns that you can switch between. That's a learning process, nothing that Yeson's surgery will fix), speech melody (women use more of it) and word choice (women phrase things differently).
So if it's pitch that's your problem, get informed, make your decision and go to Yeson :-)
Hugs,
Amy
welcome to the voice threads :-)
Quote from: Jenny87 on January 22, 2014, 08:46:44 AM
I haven't yet had any formal voice coaching. Do you think this may be too soon? Should I have my vocal range tested somewhere before, is that what most people do?
Well, the question is not what most people do, but the question is if it's useful. You have to know that there are several parameters to your voice that can be adjusted independently. One is pitch and range, that's what this surgery addresses. Female voices are higher in pitch than male ones, on average. So if your voice is medium or low for male standards, it'll be too low for female standards and this surgery may very well be for you. However, if your voice is high for male standards, it may be just right for female standards and you've nothing to gain from the procedure. Alexia's case goes to show that.
The other parameters are resonance/sound (the way you shape the tone your vocal cords make – there's are two distinct male and female patterns that you can switch between. That's a learning process, nothing that Yeson's surgery will fix), speech melody (women use more of it) and word choice (women phrase things differently).
So if it's pitch that's your problem, get informed, make your decision and go to Yeson :-)
Hugs,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 23, 2014, 02:16:16 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 23, 2014, 02:16:16 AM
Hi Alexia,
(on raising the larynx:)
It's not uncomfortable at all, it'll be second nature in no time and will help you immensely in attaining a good and female-sounding voice.
Amy
(on raising the larynx:)
Quote from: alexiakk on January 22, 2014, 01:00:27 PM
Not really, but raising it "too much" will result in uncomfortable and thus hard to make it as natural habit right?
It's not uncomfortable at all, it'll be second nature in no time and will help you immensely in attaining a good and female-sounding voice.
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jenny87 on January 23, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
Post by: Jenny87 on January 23, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
Thanks so much Jenny, anjaq and AmyBerlin, I'm going to take your advice and go to a voice coach as soon as I can, spend some time practicing and have my pitch measured and see how things are looking by march before I commit to anything. I think I'm just a teensy bit too eager :).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 23, 2014, 10:22:34 AM
Post by: anjaq on January 23, 2014, 10:22:34 AM
I totally can relate to being eager to just book a ticket and go there Jenny87 - especially after listening a bit to the videos from Jenny in this thread and the others in the other threads. Its so very tempting. But for me sadly there was this dissapointment. I did my ENT appointment with pitch range and speaking pitch measurement as well as vocal chord videos and sent it all in to Yesons and they told me that they see problems there that should be fixed before I do such a surgery as they would diminish the result and increase the recovery time, so I guess it was good to do some work in advance.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 24, 2014, 05:44:19 PM
Post by: alexiakk on January 24, 2014, 05:44:19 PM
Now my main concern will be whether there is a way to attain "voice feminization singing"... To me I'm a bit different. I can stand my speaking voice to be a masculine female voice (as Mariah Carey and Beyonce who have deep speaking voice) - and in fact I don't want my voice to be soft and delicate instead I admire those strong women's voices. HOWEVER, despite being a counter-tenor in full voice, I can't stand any "male-like" factors in singing voice...
I really regret letting my voice change - should've taken female hormones before it started to change :'(
Now if there are more advanced technologies as vocal "TRACT" space reduction I'll definitely do it lol
I really regret letting my voice change - should've taken female hormones before it started to change :'(
Now if there are more advanced technologies as vocal "TRACT" space reduction I'll definitely do it lol
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sophiabutterfly09 on January 28, 2014, 08:23:06 PM
Post by: Sophiabutterfly09 on January 28, 2014, 08:23:06 PM
I CANT WAIT :D lol i haven't even contacted them yet. I didn't know that your supposed to send in a voice recording beforehand. I really have a good feeling about this surgery, it has and will continue to change the lives of many transwomen YAYY!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 29, 2014, 05:41:29 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 29, 2014, 05:41:29 AM
Dear Sophia,
That makes me wonder. They didn't ask me for that...
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: Sophiabutterfly09 on January 28, 2014, 08:23:06 PM
I didn't know that your supposed to send in a voice recording beforehand.
That makes me wonder. They didn't ask me for that...
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sophiabutterfly09 on January 29, 2014, 06:46:46 AM
Post by: Sophiabutterfly09 on January 29, 2014, 06:46:46 AM
Hey Amy, I would love to hear about your upcoming expierence with yeson :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 29, 2014, 09:31:16 AM
Post by: anjaq on January 29, 2014, 09:31:16 AM
I dont think they request anything as you will do a thorough examination once you are there and he will judge about the possible procedures then. I did send in examination results from my examination here and he cautioned me that he can only make an uncertain judgement on that information as he did not perform the examination himself. In my case it was a video and an image with the pitch parameters. What he judged from that was that I would run into problems with the surgery due to some vocal chord issues I have and that would have to be fixed first. He also said he could not totally feminize my voice due to the original pitch being too low. That last judgement however was made on the assumption that my original voice was at F0 of 100 Hz and if he adds 75 Hz to that it still would not be in what he considers a female range wnd which is about 200 Hz. Since I do not really speak at 100 Hz anymore I would hope that this does not hold true and if it does that at least it would make it easier for me to go up a bit. There is a risk that he will not reach the 75 Hz though and that the original F0 is the important parameter, in whcih case I would fall below 175 Hz new F0 which would not be that different from now.
So I guess it is not a bad idea to do some examinations at home and do recordings (rainbow passage?) or let someone analyze the speaking voice F0 and send it to him, but he can only make a limited judgement on it. Unless something is totally wrong (or totally great) with the voice or vocal chords (as it was with me with my broken vocal chords and Alex here with her already female vocal chords), I think he will only say that things are ok and you will get the examination in Seoul.
So I guess it is not a bad idea to do some examinations at home and do recordings (rainbow passage?) or let someone analyze the speaking voice F0 and send it to him, but he can only make a limited judgement on it. Unless something is totally wrong (or totally great) with the voice or vocal chords (as it was with me with my broken vocal chords and Alex here with her already female vocal chords), I think he will only say that things are ok and you will get the examination in Seoul.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 30, 2014, 02:15:46 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on January 30, 2014, 02:15:46 AM
Hey Sophia, Anja,
You bet you will! The thread is already there: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156860.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156860.0.html). But, as I said, I had to schedule for mid-April for work reasons, meaning that if you book your surgery now, without time constraints, you'll end up having an appointment earlier than mine.
Since pitch is logarithmic, I find it odd anyway that he's describing frequency gain linearly (+75 Hz) and not with a factor (such as ·3/2 for "a fifth higher" or ·16/9 for "a minor seventh higher").
Me, I've an F0 of 130 Hz and a lower limit of 82 Hz for the old male voice. Adding 75 Hz would yield F0=205 Hz (more than enough) and a low end of 157 Hz. In order not to have to transpose my whole repertoire, I'd need to be able to access 147 Hz though (which is the lowest note I'm using on stage). I think I should still talk to Jessie about that...
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: Sophiabutterfly09 on January 29, 2014, 06:46:46 AM
Hey Amy, I would love to hear about your upcoming expierence with yeson :)
You bet you will! The thread is already there: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156860.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156860.0.html). But, as I said, I had to schedule for mid-April for work reasons, meaning that if you book your surgery now, without time constraints, you'll end up having an appointment earlier than mine.
Quote from: anjaq on January 29, 2014, 09:31:16 AM
That last judgement however was made on the assumption that my original voice was at F0 of 100 Hz and if he adds 75 Hz to that it still would not be in what he considers a female range wnd which is about 200 Hz.
Since pitch is logarithmic, I find it odd anyway that he's describing frequency gain linearly (+75 Hz) and not with a factor (such as ·3/2 for "a fifth higher" or ·16/9 for "a minor seventh higher").
Me, I've an F0 of 130 Hz and a lower limit of 82 Hz for the old male voice. Adding 75 Hz would yield F0=205 Hz (more than enough) and a low end of 157 Hz. In order not to have to transpose my whole repertoire, I'd need to be able to access 147 Hz though (which is the lowest note I'm using on stage). I think I should still talk to Jessie about that...
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 30, 2014, 03:17:34 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 30, 2014, 03:17:34 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on January 30, 2014, 02:15:46 AM
Hey Sophia, Anja,
You bet you will! The thread is already there: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156860.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156860.0.html). But, as I said, I had to schedule for mid-April for work reasons, meaning that if you book your surgery now, without time constraints, you'll end up having an appointment earlier than mine.
Since pitch is logarithmic, I find it odd anyway that he's describing frequency gain linearly (+75 Hz) and not with a factor (such as ·3/2 for "a fifth higher" or ·16/9 for "a minor seventh higher").
Me, I've an F0 of 130 Hz and a lower limit of 82 Hz for the old male voice. Adding 75 Hz would yield F0=205 Hz (more than enough) and a low end of 157 Hz. In order not to have to transpose my whole repertoire, I'd need to be able to access 147 Hz though (which is the lowest note I'm using on stage). I think I should still talk to Jessie about that...
Regards,
Amy
Amy- my pre-op voice is almost a perfect match to yours. My lower limit was the same as yours.. E2 (82hz). And my current lower limit happens to be D3 (146.8hz).
I found it odd that he used a linear scale as well. I think it more pertains to the F0 range of transposition from male to female though- it is probably just a simple average figure he uses.
It would make sense that someone with a lower starting pitch would gain less in hertz than someone with a higher starting pitch. As pitch raises, so does the amount of difference in hertz between notes (a la logarithmic - just explaining to the other folks who may be interested - I know you already understand this ;))
If you think of it like putting a capo on a guitar (shortening the strings like shortening vocal cords), no matter where you put the capo all strings on the guitar (aka different people's voices) get the same amount of pitch lift with the same proportion of capo position.
For example a C3 string (131hz) with capo on fret 7 would then be a G3 (196hz), a 65hz increase. Correspondingly, a D#3 string (156hz) with a capo on the same 7th fret would be a Bb3 (233hz), a 77hz increase with the same amount of pitch lift.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 30, 2014, 03:31:42 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 30, 2014, 03:31:42 AM
It seems like he always goes for exactly 1/3 the length to be sutured unless there is something to suggest that he should go more. In my case because I had had a trach shave and due to my vocal cords being unusually long and thick, he decided to tie off closer to 1/2. Since I had a very deep perceived voice to begin with, I was not concerned about it being too much at all.
My hunch is that the more he ties off, the more volume or power is potentially lost from the voice. I know that my volume is still slightly lower now over 8 months into recovery. Whether it will be a temporary or permanent loss I don't care at all. It's never a problem. Sometimes with a night of moderate drinking I can overexert my voice though, and my voice can become incredibly limited in the upper range the next morning. When I was first recovered enough to let myself be loud again, this would happen almost nightly- and it could take up to 1.5 days to get my upper range back. That recovery time after a night of heavy voice use is diminishing more and more. Now if that happens, I am good by midday the next day.
I think of it like the relative size of a vibrating reed in a wind instrument to the body of the instrument itself. Kind of like making the mouthpiece on a saxaphone smaller. The result would be a less optimized volume level and a slightly smaller/softer sounding tone to the instrument. I don't know for sure if this relates, it's merely a thought I just had.
My hunch is that the more he ties off, the more volume or power is potentially lost from the voice. I know that my volume is still slightly lower now over 8 months into recovery. Whether it will be a temporary or permanent loss I don't care at all. It's never a problem. Sometimes with a night of moderate drinking I can overexert my voice though, and my voice can become incredibly limited in the upper range the next morning. When I was first recovered enough to let myself be loud again, this would happen almost nightly- and it could take up to 1.5 days to get my upper range back. That recovery time after a night of heavy voice use is diminishing more and more. Now if that happens, I am good by midday the next day.
I think of it like the relative size of a vibrating reed in a wind instrument to the body of the instrument itself. Kind of like making the mouthpiece on a saxaphone smaller. The result would be a less optimized volume level and a slightly smaller/softer sounding tone to the instrument. I don't know for sure if this relates, it's merely a thought I just had.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on January 30, 2014, 08:00:30 AM
Post by: alexiakk on January 30, 2014, 08:00:30 AM
I recently found some interesting information about the physiological differences between males and females speaking, and feel like what Anja said to me before "But you learned how to speak in a lowered and masculine sounding voice, in part deliberately. On the upside this basically just means you have to unlearn these patterns and you will be naturally female sounding. On the downside it means that you probably still would need some voice therapy." is totally true!
Basically children use the same part of brains in speaking, but during puberty the male hormones not only affects one's larynx & vocal cords but also tell one's brain to switch "speech function" to another area in order to adapt to the heavier larynx (the processes are separate though). That's why some unique males, despite having small vocal cords, still get lower voice - hormones might not infected their cords but indeed affected their brains. As this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2liGFJFuGk his speaking Hz is a bit above average male, but not really "that high", while he's a male soprano. That said, males naturally lose the function they "might" still be able to do post-puberty. So I really think that voice therapy might be a need for anyone regardless of the surgery, according to: http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx
"A genetic female uses a different part of the brain to produce speech than a genetic male, and has a certain sing-song quality called prosody. This prosody is what the brain of someone listening to you will subconsciously process the voice as being perceived female versus a high-pitched male voice. (Visual cues are also very important, but for the purposes of this discussion, visual cues are assumed absent, such as telephone conversation). Prosody can not be changed with hormones or surgery. It must be learned, the way an actor would acquire the skills to take on another's personality of sorts. It requires a speech therapist very, very experienced in transgender voice changes, who can teach prosody. In most, it also requires years of practice to perfect and have it sound natural and effortless."
so yeah I'm gonna find the brain functionality back! :D
Basically children use the same part of brains in speaking, but during puberty the male hormones not only affects one's larynx & vocal cords but also tell one's brain to switch "speech function" to another area in order to adapt to the heavier larynx (the processes are separate though). That's why some unique males, despite having small vocal cords, still get lower voice - hormones might not infected their cords but indeed affected their brains. As this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2liGFJFuGk his speaking Hz is a bit above average male, but not really "that high", while he's a male soprano. That said, males naturally lose the function they "might" still be able to do post-puberty. So I really think that voice therapy might be a need for anyone regardless of the surgery, according to: http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx
"A genetic female uses a different part of the brain to produce speech than a genetic male, and has a certain sing-song quality called prosody. This prosody is what the brain of someone listening to you will subconsciously process the voice as being perceived female versus a high-pitched male voice. (Visual cues are also very important, but for the purposes of this discussion, visual cues are assumed absent, such as telephone conversation). Prosody can not be changed with hormones or surgery. It must be learned, the way an actor would acquire the skills to take on another's personality of sorts. It requires a speech therapist very, very experienced in transgender voice changes, who can teach prosody. In most, it also requires years of practice to perfect and have it sound natural and effortless."
so yeah I'm gonna find the brain functionality back! :D
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: eh-lyssa on January 30, 2014, 10:21:55 AM
Post by: eh-lyssa on January 30, 2014, 10:21:55 AM
I am looking into voice surgery because of difficulties in changing my pitch due to a previous injury due to a blood clot killing the nerve to my left vocal cord. Since then the nerve has healed and have regained some function but I don't have the pitch range I used to.
I saw a voice specialist (Dr Kirkham) about my injury and asked him about voice feminization surgery and he strongly advised me against it due to the restriction in your airway that results. He said any inflammation (like allergy) can result in closing off your airway much easier than without surgery.
He said he used to do voice feminization surgery but would never do it again for this reason.
Anyone who has had the surgery, have you had any issues with this?
Thanks
Alyssa
I saw a voice specialist (Dr Kirkham) about my injury and asked him about voice feminization surgery and he strongly advised me against it due to the restriction in your airway that results. He said any inflammation (like allergy) can result in closing off your airway much easier than without surgery.
He said he used to do voice feminization surgery but would never do it again for this reason.
Anyone who has had the surgery, have you had any issues with this?
Thanks
Alyssa
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Expressgirl on January 30, 2014, 09:24:50 PM
Post by: Expressgirl on January 30, 2014, 09:24:50 PM
Quote from: anjaq on January 29, 2014, 09:31:16 AM
I dont think they request anything as you will do a thorough examination once you are there and he will judge about the possible procedures then. I did send in examination results from my examination here and he cautioned me that he can only make an uncertain judgement on that information as he did not perform the examination himself. In my case it was a video and an image with the pitch parameters. What he judged from that was that I would run into problems with the surgery due to some vocal chord issues I have and that would have to be fixed first. He also said he could not totally feminize my voice due to the original pitch being too low. That last judgement however was made on the assumption that my original voice was at F0 of 100 Hz and if he adds 75 Hz to that it still would not be in what he considers a female range wnd which is about 200 Hz. Since I do not really speak at 100 Hz anymore I would hope that this does not hold true and if it does that at least it would make it easier for me to go up a bit. There is a risk that he will not reach the 75 Hz though and that the original F0 is the important parameter, in whcih case I would fall below 175 Hz new F0 which would not be that different from now.
So I guess it is not a bad idea to do some examinations at home and do recordings (rainbow passage?) or let someone analyze the speaking voice F0 and send it to him, but he can only make a limited judgement on it. Unless something is totally wrong (or totally great) with the voice or vocal chords (as it was with me with my broken vocal chords and Alex here with her already female vocal chords), I think he will only say that things are ok and you will get the examination in Seoul.
Hi,
I have also been one of the people reading over this post for quite some time. Now that I am ready to take the plunge I am getting really nervous. I am talking to Jessie about booking a date in March, but I would hate to get to Korea and be told I am unable to complete the surgery. I would hate to take the time off work, spend the money to travel to Korea with my partner and then not have the surgery (unless it is like Alexiakk's situation). I have a very low natural voice too about 100-110 Hz, but I haven't used that voice for almost two years. When I asked Jessie if this is an issue that would prevent me from having successful results, she said no, Dr. Kim would just place the suture closer to halfway point of my vocal cords. It does not ease my concern that I can't speak with Dr. Kim until I arrive in Korea. I would like to send them the same video/pitch parameters, which you did. What did you ask your ENT to do when you wanted to send Dr. Kim your results? What vocal cord issues do you have? Is there something specific I can ask my ENT to look for?
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on January 30, 2014, 09:58:46 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on January 30, 2014, 09:58:46 PM
Alyssa- I have horrible respiratory allergies including asthma reactions to them as well. I have not had any issues at all.
Dr. Kim will not make your vocal cords too small.
I would contact him about the vocal fold paralysis, it may be something he can fix at the same time as the surgery.
Dr. Kim will not make your vocal cords too small.
I would contact him about the vocal fold paralysis, it may be something he can fix at the same time as the surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 08:16:58 AM
Post by: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 08:16:58 AM
So, Jenny& Amy - If a 1/3 reduction in the chord length brings a 130 Hz voice to 205 Hz (+75Hz), what would it do to a 100 Hz voice? It would not go to 175 Hz but what - 160 Hz?
Basically what I had done was an endocsopic video with different frequencies (I had to say "aaa"). They gave me the video on request. Also, they did a speech analysis which consisted of me reading stuff, talking, making very low up to very high tones, keep one tone as long as I could and so on. From that they determined how much air loss I have while speaking (short length of keeping a tone), what my average speaking frequency is, what my pitch range is. They diagnosed me with a double sided incomplete glottal closure, which means I have two gaps when my vocal chords are closing, which is not good as it means I have hypertension and I loose a lot of air by that, so that I cannot hold a tone for more than 9 seconds and have a breathy sound a bit. Also it means that I am straining my voice a lot just by regular conversation. In addition I have some sort of assymetric vibration. In addition to these two things, Dr Kim told me from the videos he got from me, that I also have a vocal tremor. Otherwise he confirmed the results. Since my speaking range now is about 140 Hz, he did not comment on that as this is the normal range for him to do the surgery on (130 Hz to 200 Hz increase). I wrote him only later that my original voice was at 100 Hz and then he raised some concerns about not reaching the 200 Hz. Also he said that the hypertension and tremor as well as the assymetry might affect the healing period and the pitch increase even further, so he advised more or less against it for now. I am presently working on fixing the issuew with voice training.
Quote from: Expressgirl on January 30, 2014, 09:24:50 PMI have made a thread on my voice myself - https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,153931.new.html
I would like to send them the same video/pitch parameters, which you did. What did you ask your ENT to do when you wanted to send Dr. Kim your results? What vocal cord issues do you have? Is there something specific I can ask my ENT to look for?
Basically what I had done was an endocsopic video with different frequencies (I had to say "aaa"). They gave me the video on request. Also, they did a speech analysis which consisted of me reading stuff, talking, making very low up to very high tones, keep one tone as long as I could and so on. From that they determined how much air loss I have while speaking (short length of keeping a tone), what my average speaking frequency is, what my pitch range is. They diagnosed me with a double sided incomplete glottal closure, which means I have two gaps when my vocal chords are closing, which is not good as it means I have hypertension and I loose a lot of air by that, so that I cannot hold a tone for more than 9 seconds and have a breathy sound a bit. Also it means that I am straining my voice a lot just by regular conversation. In addition I have some sort of assymetric vibration. In addition to these two things, Dr Kim told me from the videos he got from me, that I also have a vocal tremor. Otherwise he confirmed the results. Since my speaking range now is about 140 Hz, he did not comment on that as this is the normal range for him to do the surgery on (130 Hz to 200 Hz increase). I wrote him only later that my original voice was at 100 Hz and then he raised some concerns about not reaching the 200 Hz. Also he said that the hypertension and tremor as well as the assymetry might affect the healing period and the pitch increase even further, so he advised more or less against it for now. I am presently working on fixing the issuew with voice training.
Quote from: eh-lyssa on January 30, 2014, 10:21:55 AMTell this in detail to Dr Kim and send him data. There is a chance that he can help with that, but there is also a chance that it can actually make it harder for him and you to get good results
I am looking into voice surgery because of difficulties in changing my pitch due to a previous injury due to a blood clot killing the nerve to my left vocal cord. Since then the nerve has healed and have regained some function but I don't have the pitch range I used to.
QuoteI saw a voice specialist (Dr Kirkham) about my injury and asked him about voice feminization surgery and he strongly advised me against it due to the restriction in your airway that results. He said any inflammation (like allergy) can result in closing off your airway much easier than without surgery.I am not sure this is true. I heard there is an issue with intubations as they may choose the wrong intubator in an emergency surgery. But I think most women will have a similar sized larynx opening and still breathe ok, isnt that so?
He said he used to do voice feminization surgery but would never do it again for this reason.
Quote from: alexiakk on January 30, 2014, 08:00:30 AMYes, that is important and I think it also is still part of my problems. Since I started to work on that a bit mor eagain, more people are telling my my voice is ok as it is and I should not alter pitch as it is not pitch that is important but resonance and prosody and intonation and melody and all that - basically telling me I could have a totally female voice at 140 Hz or so... I am not sure...
Prosody can not be changed with hormones or surgery. It must be learned, the way an actor would acquire the skills to take on another's personality of sorts. It requires a speech therapist very, very experienced in transgender voice changes, who can teach prosody. In most, it also requires years of practice to perfect and have it sound natural and effortless."
I'm gonna find the brain functionality back! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Saskia on January 31, 2014, 11:46:56 AM
Post by: Saskia on January 31, 2014, 11:46:56 AM
I really wish I understood all the techy stuff you folks are talking about. I've no idea what my pitch is or anything else about my voice. Back in the 1980's I did have a visit to a speech therapist who told me my voice was within the normal female range although of course towards the deeper end, so I was of course very happy with that, and the voice I've developed now seems to be mostly OK. I'm no longer able to speak in my old voice as I've beein using this voice for 20 plus years.
I am very worried however that for some reason Dr Kim will find something wrong and I'll not be able to have the operation, and a lot of money will have been wasted travelling to South Korea. I guess I'll have to just take the risk. But it is always at the back of my mind.
I am very worried however that for some reason Dr Kim will find something wrong and I'll not be able to have the operation, and a lot of money will have been wasted travelling to South Korea. I guess I'll have to just take the risk. But it is always at the back of my mind.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 03:51:44 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 03:51:44 PM
As this was linked above: http://professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx - there is a picture in there that looks like they have somehow without a suture managed to mend together the vocal chords. Apparently they are doing that wiht a laser? I have not heard of that method yet, basically a glottoplasty but not with a permanent thread that keeps them in place but with a laser scar? Is there more information on that out there? As it is scarring, I can imagine that the critical point in the commissure is not well shaped and it can be more risk of breathyness? But they say they can just advance the commisure even more and then basically reshape it.
Interesting technology...
Saskia - if your voice is in a female range and you cannot leave that range or your present voice and it worked for 20 years, why are you considering going to Dr Kim then? Is it straining the voice to use it as you do?
By the way Jenny - is it more straining to use the voice now or less than it was before to keep the same pitch? It would be a good motivator for me to put less strain on the voice after a VFS and basically not even sound that different from when I use a higher pitched voice now but doing it more effortless and without straining my voice too much when doing so...
Greeings
Interesting technology...
Saskia - if your voice is in a female range and you cannot leave that range or your present voice and it worked for 20 years, why are you considering going to Dr Kim then? Is it straining the voice to use it as you do?
By the way Jenny - is it more straining to use the voice now or less than it was before to keep the same pitch? It would be a good motivator for me to put less strain on the voice after a VFS and basically not even sound that different from when I use a higher pitched voice now but doing it more effortless and without straining my voice too much when doing so...
Greeings
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: samantha.mich on January 31, 2014, 04:20:20 PM
Post by: samantha.mich on January 31, 2014, 04:20:20 PM
Hi, I'm considering getting VFS and was wondering if you still have to do a lot of speech therapy after your surgery to get a voice that passes well? I have been working on my voice for awhile now and it still just doesn't sound right. Kinda bad actually. It's really frustrating! And I can't even do it for any length of time without feeling like I'm getting a sore throat. Did you your surgery help this? Thank you.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Expressgirl on January 31, 2014, 06:03:53 PM
Post by: Expressgirl on January 31, 2014, 06:03:53 PM
Anjaq,
Did you get the video and voice pitch recording done with your ENT? I really want to send Dr. Kim something before I go, just so I don't feel like I am going on blind luck. I had FFS here in the US 8 months ago and before I even booked the surgery I had like a half dozen discussions with my chosen surgeon. So going out of country without even speaking with the surgeon feels very odd.
Did you get the video and voice pitch recording done with your ENT? I really want to send Dr. Kim something before I go, just so I don't feel like I am going on blind luck. I had FFS here in the US 8 months ago and before I even booked the surgery I had like a half dozen discussions with my chosen surgeon. So going out of country without even speaking with the surgeon feels very odd.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 06:50:42 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 06:50:42 PM
Expressgirl - yes I did get an examination locally and collected all the data and sent them in. It is not as thorough as the examination Dr Kim does and he can only do a partial diagnosis on that, I am not sure how much time he wants to spend on it unless you are booked and if you are booked he will say just wait until he does the examination. He also suggested to me to have the examination with him because he could not judge really well only from the video. I think what helps in the initial assessment though is to somehow communicate if your local ENT has discovered any voice anomalies (so Dr Kim can say if they can be fixed or if they are hinderances) and to communicate your pitch level and range to allow Dr Kim to estimate a target pitch.
samantha - I think you definitely should do voice training before and after - pitch is like 20-50% of the feminization of the voice from what I have heard - it is something that causes a lot of sore throat if it is forced though. Focus in your voice training on intonation, resonance and all the other little things and not much on pitch as pitch will come with the VFS. Those other parameters will not change with VFS too much though I guess some changes are possible there too...
samantha - I think you definitely should do voice training before and after - pitch is like 20-50% of the feminization of the voice from what I have heard - it is something that causes a lot of sore throat if it is forced though. Focus in your voice training on intonation, resonance and all the other little things and not much on pitch as pitch will come with the VFS. Those other parameters will not change with VFS too much though I guess some changes are possible there too...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Saskia on February 01, 2014, 01:37:10 AM
Post by: Saskia on February 01, 2014, 01:37:10 AM
Quote from: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 03:51:44 PM
Saskia - if your voice is in a female range and you cannot leave that range or your present voice and it worked for 20 years, why are you considering going to Dr Kim then? Is it straining the voice to use it as you do?
Good question Anja. I really hate my voice especially when I hear it myself. I cringe with embarrassment. The only time I have a problem with my voice for eample on the phone is if I have a cold and then it goes like horribly deep. I asked my niece to give me honest feedback on my voice and this is exactly what she told me (below). I guess it's down to my own personal perception. The voices I've heard after VFS sound so very natural, whereas I don't think mine does.
Quote from my Nieces' email
"Regarding the operation. How do you feel about it and what has made you decide that now is the time? I will be honest and say perhaps your voice is ever so slightly deeper than some womens voices but you definitely don't sound male and there are a couple of women in my office, one in particular especially, who get mistaken for men all the time as their voices are so deep. I don't think that would ever happen to you. But if it will make you feel more confident and if you are sure it is safe and you can afford it then go for it"
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: samantha.mich on February 01, 2014, 07:31:39 AM
Post by: samantha.mich on February 01, 2014, 07:31:39 AM
Anjaq thanks for answering my question. So dose this surgery truly make your range higher or dose it just help remove the lower range? I don't mean to sound stupid but dose everything move up? And you get a little bit higher range? Because if I try and go to high up my voice kind of breaks when I go to high up. So I'm hoping that this surgery would help me with that. I'm getting voice therapy this spring right now I'm using online videos to help me. I just don't think I can get the proper range without surgery too.
Quote from: anjaq on January 31, 2014, 06:50:42 PM
Expressgirl - yes I did get an examination locally and collected all the data and sent them in. It is not as thorough as the examination Dr Kim does and he can only do a partial diagnosis on that, I am not sure how much time he wants to spend on it unless you are booked and if you are booked he will say just wait until he does the examination. He also suggested to me to have the examination with him because he could not judge really well only from the video. I think what helps in the initial assessment though is to somehow communicate if your local ENT has discovered any voice anomalies (so Dr Kim can say if they can be fixed or if they are hinderances) and to communicate your pitch level and range to allow Dr Kim to estimate a target pitch.
samantha - I think you definitely should do voice training before and after - pitch is like 20-50% of the feminization of the voice from what I have heard - it is something that causes a lot of sore throat if it is forced though. Focus in your voice training on intonation, resonance and all the other little things and not much on pitch as pitch will come with the VFS. Those other parameters will not change with VFS too much though I guess some changes are possible there too...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 01, 2014, 12:44:09 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 01, 2014, 12:44:09 PM
Saskia, I guess I can only agree to your niece there - if it makes you feel better and more confident and you trust the procedure well enough - thats cool. And if the pitch really is lower than most of the other womens voices then surgery will have some effect for sure.
Samantha - Jenny can tell more on this as she experienced also an upward shift. However "officially" the main effect is the removal of the lower range as the upper range is more limited by your muscle control and not the vocal chords. It seems to be easier to get that control though if the surgery is done. Your main concern is the break and that was also a biggie for me when I started to look into voice issues. I was concerned that I would hit that break all the time when speaking in a higher pitch- howver I must say I hardly ever hit it up to now when speaking at a higher pitch without surgery except when I am doing a lot of pitch changes. I think that break point probably does not change, or maybe someone post op can tell you more on the pitch at which that break happens. However some have said that the break is less noticeable and let me tell you, I did start voice rehab 3 months ago and I was having a severe break there. We did a few trainigns and easy lip flutter exercises and "siren sounds" and that break now is really manageable. I can make a tone that goes from low to high without breaking but it looses a bit of volume in that break range. So this break is something you can manage with voice training for sure and then you are free to use the pitches in the upper range and mix them with the rest ;)
Samantha - Jenny can tell more on this as she experienced also an upward shift. However "officially" the main effect is the removal of the lower range as the upper range is more limited by your muscle control and not the vocal chords. It seems to be easier to get that control though if the surgery is done. Your main concern is the break and that was also a biggie for me when I started to look into voice issues. I was concerned that I would hit that break all the time when speaking in a higher pitch- howver I must say I hardly ever hit it up to now when speaking at a higher pitch without surgery except when I am doing a lot of pitch changes. I think that break point probably does not change, or maybe someone post op can tell you more on the pitch at which that break happens. However some have said that the break is less noticeable and let me tell you, I did start voice rehab 3 months ago and I was having a severe break there. We did a few trainigns and easy lip flutter exercises and "siren sounds" and that break now is really manageable. I can make a tone that goes from low to high without breaking but it looses a bit of volume in that break range. So this break is something you can manage with voice training for sure and then you are free to use the pitches in the upper range and mix them with the rest ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on February 01, 2014, 03:29:35 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on February 01, 2014, 03:29:35 PM
My break has gone up almost 2 wholetones, but I think it is more due to adapting to having proper resonance at all times- because my voice sounds weird otherwise... It sounds like I am a girl trying to imitate a guy voice so I don't ever drop my larynx. This is purely due to habit, and it is probably correspondingly strengthening the muscles associated with using a feminized larynx position further cementing it.
Someone who has successfully feminized their voice without surgery would likely find the same exact thing about getting used to a new larynx position and how that changes the break of your voice. The only exception being that it is possible to retrain a non-VFS'd voice to use the lower range again. After VFS, that possibility is permanently eliminated.
And yes the lip flutter exercises and sirens have definitely helped I think. Yeson has you do voice strengthening exercises and those are the main component.
This is what I do twice a day (as directed by Yeson, until I am 12 months post op), but anyone could do this to develop their voice regardless if they've had the surgery:
warm up
• soft lip trill on F3 (this is towards the bottom of my range and feels like somewhat of a low note)
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
• soft lip trill on F3
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
stretching & contracting (stay quiet, careful not to strain)
• soft lip trill siren from lowest to highest x 4
• soft "noooh" sound from lowest to highest x 4 (using air like blowing a candle)
(current range D3 147hz to Ab5 831hz)
power
• hold lip trill on C4 as long as possible (relax and breathe from diaphragm)
• hold "noooh" on C4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on D4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on D4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on E4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on E4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on F4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on F4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on G4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on G4 as long as possible
warm down (quietly)
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg" sound, like in the word "sing"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
It's a really great exercise while driving alone ;)
Someone who has successfully feminized their voice without surgery would likely find the same exact thing about getting used to a new larynx position and how that changes the break of your voice. The only exception being that it is possible to retrain a non-VFS'd voice to use the lower range again. After VFS, that possibility is permanently eliminated.
And yes the lip flutter exercises and sirens have definitely helped I think. Yeson has you do voice strengthening exercises and those are the main component.
This is what I do twice a day (as directed by Yeson, until I am 12 months post op), but anyone could do this to develop their voice regardless if they've had the surgery:
warm up
• soft lip trill on F3 (this is towards the bottom of my range and feels like somewhat of a low note)
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
• soft lip trill on F3
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
stretching & contracting (stay quiet, careful not to strain)
• soft lip trill siren from lowest to highest x 4
• soft "noooh" sound from lowest to highest x 4 (using air like blowing a candle)
(current range D3 147hz to Ab5 831hz)
power
• hold lip trill on C4 as long as possible (relax and breathe from diaphragm)
• hold "noooh" on C4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on D4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on D4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on E4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on E4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on F4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on F4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on G4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on G4 as long as possible
warm down (quietly)
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg" sound, like in the word "sing"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
It's a really great exercise while driving alone ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: samantha.mich on February 01, 2014, 04:09:40 PM
Post by: samantha.mich on February 01, 2014, 04:09:40 PM
Anjaq and Jenny, thanks so much for this information! This is so awesome to know. I have been so sad and just frustrated about not being able to change my voice in any clear manor that I was figuring what's the point? My voice will be to low or break just almost as soon as I raise it and go falsetto. And it's not from not trying and being diligent. It's kind of heart breaking to me to keep my practicing up and always sounding so bad. I got called miss at the store the other day and it just killed me to answer her and see that look on her face.... I will start practicing this right away! Thank you both!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 01, 2014, 05:41:24 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 01, 2014, 05:41:24 PM
Samantha - there are some youtube videos explaining the lip trill/lip flutter exercises - they are what helped me most. Also that "ffffeeee" and "ffffooooo" sound - using a lot of air to make the sounds - those are great to train the voice to not have a break and to no thave tension too much. I do them a lot. I recognize some of the trainings in the list from Jenny there. not all of them though. But the siren lip trill - going from lowest to highest and try not to break - those are the best. use a lot of air. Rather do it in 2 or 3 steps if you cannot go from lowest to highest possible in one run but use a lot of air it makes the break go away easier.Good luck - this is what can be done with voice training and without surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: samantha.mich on February 01, 2014, 06:48:04 PM
Post by: samantha.mich on February 01, 2014, 06:48:04 PM
Anjaq, Awesome! I will look for those you tube videos. Thank you again for all your tips and help!
Samantha
Samantha
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 12:37:05 PM
Post by: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 12:37:05 PM
I hope someone can answer these questions for me:
1. Does genetic females tend to pull their larynx up when speaking also , or it's just a way that genetic males need to do in order to produce similar sound? I tried to observe gen-females around me these 2 days, and their larynx kinda being pulled up a bit when speaking.
2. Can you produce large volume female voice with the method taught in voice therapy? Most of the trans-girls I saw on youtube speak very softly... but I want to sound energetic.
3. This one I hope Amy can answer me: why do females have such a wide range of "middle register"? Is this trainable? I don't think this one has too much to deal with the vocal cords size... as females even alto have almost an octave of middle register. Leggerio tenors or tenorino might have similar size of cords, but still the range of zona di passaggio is only about a 4th. Is this somehow related to speech habits (ok I saw that middle register is what US vocal coaches called "call voice", so that's what I think)?
1. Does genetic females tend to pull their larynx up when speaking also , or it's just a way that genetic males need to do in order to produce similar sound? I tried to observe gen-females around me these 2 days, and their larynx kinda being pulled up a bit when speaking.
2. Can you produce large volume female voice with the method taught in voice therapy? Most of the trans-girls I saw on youtube speak very softly... but I want to sound energetic.
3. This one I hope Amy can answer me: why do females have such a wide range of "middle register"? Is this trainable? I don't think this one has too much to deal with the vocal cords size... as females even alto have almost an octave of middle register. Leggerio tenors or tenorino might have similar size of cords, but still the range of zona di passaggio is only about a 4th. Is this somehow related to speech habits (ok I saw that middle register is what US vocal coaches called "call voice", so that's what I think)?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 12:41:04 PM
Post by: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 12:41:04 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on February 01, 2014, 03:29:35 PM
My break has gone up almost 2 wholetones, but I think it is more due to adapting to having proper resonance at all times- because my voice sounds weird otherwise... It sounds like I am a girl trying to imitate a guy voice so I don't ever drop my larynx. This is purely due to habit, and it is probably correspondingly strengthening the muscles associated with using a feminized larynx position further cementing it.
Someone who has successfully feminized their voice without surgery would likely find the same exact thing about getting used to a new larynx position and how that changes the break of your voice. The only exception being that it is possible to retrain a non-VFS'd voice to use the lower range again. After VFS, that possibility is permanently eliminated.
And yes the lip flutter exercises and sirens have definitely helped I think. Yeson has you do voice strengthening exercises and those are the main component.
This is what I do twice a day (as directed by Yeson, until I am 12 months post op), but anyone could do this to develop their voice regardless if they've had the surgery:
warm up
• soft lip trill on F3 (this is towards the bottom of my range and feels like somewhat of a low note)
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
• soft lip trill on F3
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
stretching & contracting (stay quiet, careful not to strain)
• soft lip trill siren from lowest to highest x 4
• soft "noooh" sound from lowest to highest x 4 (using air like blowing a candle)
(current range D3 147hz to Ab5 831hz)
power
• hold lip trill on C4 as long as possible (relax and breathe from diaphragm)
• hold "noooh" on C4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on D4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on D4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on E4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on E4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on F4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on F4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on G4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on G4 as long as possible
warm down (quietly)
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg" sound, like in the word "sing"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
It's a really great exercise while driving alone ;)
So Jenny, do you still have to do some kind of resonance modification after the Yeson VFS?
Thanks!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 01:27:10 PM
Post by: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 01:27:10 PM
Ok I've been practicing Jenny's warm up exercises and my range is a lot lower then I thought. No where near Jenny's high of Ab5. She's had surgery I know and I haven't... The highest note I can reach with these warm ups is F4 maybe if I really push a G4 buts it's super hard to get there and it's really thin sounding. Should I just not try to get that high up? And practice a lot lower? Is practicing lower even going to help me in the long run? Thanks.
Quote from: Jennygirl on February 01, 2014, 03:29:35 PM
My break has gone up almost 2 wholetones, but I think it is more due to adapting to having proper resonance at all times- because my voice sounds weird otherwise... It sounds like I am a girl trying to imitate a guy voice so I don't ever drop my larynx. This is purely due to habit, and it is probably correspondingly strengthening the muscles associated with using a feminized larynx position further cementing it.
Someone who has successfully feminized their voice without surgery would likely find the same exact thing about getting used to a new larynx position and how that changes the break of your voice. The only exception being that it is possible to retrain a non-VFS'd voice to use the lower range again. After VFS, that possibility is permanently eliminated.
And yes the lip flutter exercises and sirens have definitely helped I think. Yeson has you do voice strengthening exercises and those are the main component.
This is what I do twice a day (as directed by Yeson, until I am 12 months post op), but anyone could do this to develop their voice regardless if they've had the surgery:
warm up
• soft lip trill on F3 (this is towards the bottom of my range and feels like somewhat of a low note)
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
• soft lip trill on F3
• soft "neeeeee" sound on F3
stretching & contracting (stay quiet, careful not to strain)
• soft lip trill siren from lowest to highest x 4
• soft "noooh" sound from lowest to highest x 4 (using air like blowing a candle)
(current range D3 147hz to Ab5 831hz)
power
• hold lip trill on C4 as long as possible (relax and breathe from diaphragm)
• hold "noooh" on C4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on D4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on D4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on E4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on E4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on F4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on F4 as long as possible
• hold lip trill on G4 as long as possible
• hold "noooh" on G4 as long as possible
warm down (quietly)
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg" sound, like in the word "sing"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
• G4 down to G3 siren using "nnngg"
It's a really great exercise while driving alone ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on February 03, 2014, 01:59:38 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on February 03, 2014, 01:59:38 PM
Quote from: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 01:27:10 PM
Ok I've been practicing Jenny's warm up exercises and my range is a lot lower then I thought. No where near Jenny's high of Ab5. She's had surgery I know and I haven't... The highest note I can reach with these warm ups is F4 maybe if I really push a G4 buts it's super hard to get there and it's really thin sounding. Should I just not try to get that high up? And practice a lot lower? Is practicing lower even going to help me in the long run? Thanks.
Sounds like you're probably a great candidate for Yeson VFS! But I would keep going with the exercises. After a couple of months I'm sure your upper range will improve :)
Quote from: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 12:41:04 PM
So Jenny, do you still have to do some kind of resonance modification after the Yeson VFS?
Thanks!!
Yes, definitely. But at some point it just becomes second nature. With your already supa-high voice I'm sure a little will go a long way. You could try the kermit the frog exercise I mentioned earlier, and in the meantime I will look for the practice sheet that voice therapist gave to me. It had all sorts of exercises to work out your larynx!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on February 03, 2014, 02:07:19 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on February 03, 2014, 02:07:19 PM
Found it!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FY1TIJdT.jpg&hash=d1b75414a879dd1da2a31ef31a31cbeea17fdf2f)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FY1TIJdT.jpg&hash=d1b75414a879dd1da2a31ef31a31cbeea17fdf2f)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 03, 2014, 03:08:12 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 03, 2014, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 01:27:10 PMWow I mean Ab5 is really high - I can reach a G5 but not much more. A F4 should be manageable though especially with vocal chords that are already female in size. It is only training I would guess - the whole upper range is mostly training. And in some people VFS doe snot really increase upper range that much anyways - some claim it cannot do it but Jenny has shown that it can - if you also do the voice training at the same time.
Ok I've been practicing Jenny's warm up exercises and my range is a lot lower then I thought. No where near Jenny's high of Ab5. She's had surgery I know and I haven't... The highest note I can reach with these warm ups is F4 maybe if I really push a G4 buts it's super hard to get there and it's really thin sounding. Should I just not try to get that high up? And practice a lot lower? Is practicing lower even going to help me in the long run? Thanks.
If you want to practice higher notes what my voice therapist did was to let me sing two-tones. Like a tone where I fo the ffffooooooo sound - use alot of air and make an o vowel. And then go up thre semitones from that without stopping the sound (glide up) and change the vowel to an U. And then without breaking again down to the original tone. Then go up a semitone and do the same thing again and again until you reach your upper limits and then go down with it. Do lip flutter exercises before that. When we did that she claimed I reached the "high c" - but I think she just wanted me to feel good :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 03:33:43 PM
Post by: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 03, 2014, 03:08:12 PM
Wow I mean Ab5 is really high - I can reach a G5 but not much more. A F4 should be manageable though especially with vocal chords that are already female in size. It is only training I would guess - the whole upper range is mostly training. And in some people VFS doe snot really increase upper range that much anyways - some claim it cannot do it but Jenny has shown that it can - if you also do the voice training at the same time.
If you want to practice higher notes what my voice therapist did was to let me sing two-tones. Like a tone where I fo the ffffooooooo sound - use alot of air and make an o vowel. And then go up thre semitones from that without stopping the sound (glide up) and change the vowel to an U. And then without breaking again down to the original tone. Then go up a semitone and do the same thing again and again until you reach your upper limits and then go down with it. Do lip flutter exercises before that. When we did that she claimed I reached the "high c" - but I think she just wanted me to feel good :P
Sounds like your therapist is a sweetie! I will try this as well. So what then is an expectable range note wise to practice speaking in my female range? I can hit and speak at A3 to C4 (to me this sounds weird). but my male voice is more like A2 to C3.... I just want to make some progress while I'm saving for surgery. Thanks!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
Post by: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on February 03, 2014, 02:07:19 PM
Found it!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FY1TIJdT.jpg&hash=d1b75414a879dd1da2a31ef31a31cbeea17fdf2f)
Thanks Jenny!
I think I should start practicing now ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Buterfly99 on February 03, 2014, 07:40:30 PM
Post by: Buterfly99 on February 03, 2014, 07:40:30 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 25, 2013, 10:50:34 AM
I got my tickets last night! I am 100% ready now :) I fly out on the 12th and I'm back in the states on the 23rd. The 12th can't seem to come soon enough- but I know the next two weeks are going to fly by at lightning speed as I mentally ramp up and prepare for this whole thing.
I'll keep you updated! Thank you again for the support :)
Dear Jennygirl,
I sent an email to Jessie today to schedule my VFS at Yeson Center. I saw your videos on YouTube and I'm so impressed with the quality of your voice that i contacted Dr Kim hoping to have a decent result. I'm waiting for the confirmation email.. Id like to ask you if I could contact you for some questions.. Thank you so much..
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Expressgirl on February 03, 2014, 09:40:09 PM
Post by: Expressgirl on February 03, 2014, 09:40:09 PM
I am booked!! March 14th. I'm so excited for the surgery, and I am really looking forward to Korea too. I have never left North America so I don't really know what to expect. I am going with my partner, so at least she will be able to speak for me. I must admit that the thought of not speaking for a month scares me more than the surgery.
I was also wondering, for those of you that have done the surgery, how did you tell your job? Were you able to qualify for FMLA? How long until you were able to return to work. I was able to get FFS covered under FMLA so I am hoping that this will also, but my company recently changed their policy and now everything has to be approved through CIGNA. Obviously they don't consider this a "medically necessary" procedure or they would cover it on the insurance plan, but hopefully they understand this is treatment for GID.
I was also wondering, for those of you that have done the surgery, how did you tell your job? Were you able to qualify for FMLA? How long until you were able to return to work. I was able to get FFS covered under FMLA so I am hoping that this will also, but my company recently changed their policy and now everything has to be approved through CIGNA. Obviously they don't consider this a "medically necessary" procedure or they would cover it on the insurance plan, but hopefully they understand this is treatment for GID.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 04, 2014, 12:58:43 AM
Post by: barbie on February 04, 2014, 12:58:43 AM
Quote from: Expressgirl on February 03, 2014, 09:40:09 PM
I am booked!! March 14th. I'm so excited for the surgery, and I am really looking forward to Korea too. I have never left North America so I don't really know what to expect. I am going with my partner, so at least she will be able to speak for me. I must admit that the thought of not speaking for a month scares me more than the surgery.
Most Korean can read English, even they are not good at speaking and listening. For emergency case, you may carry some paper or smartphone for memo to write and show it to nearby Koreans. Thus, being unable to speak will not be serious drawback during your stay in Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on February 04, 2014, 03:19:47 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on February 04, 2014, 03:19:47 PM
Hi all,
it's incredible that so many messages poured in during the short time that I didn't keep up with the boards. And good to hear that a lot of people are deciding to make the trip to Korea :-)
Regarding the speaking voice: Typical male speaking voices have F0s between G2 and C#3. D3 to F#3 is the gender-neutral zone and G3 to C4 is female territory. Even as females speak more melodically than males, it doesn't make sense to practice notes higher than, say, A4 for speaking. Nobody uses higher notes in speaking, not even at the ends of questions, except maybe to comfort infants or the like.
Anyone can go higher than a G4. The thing is, with male resonance you can't. If you're using female resonance (or, initially, falsetto) you can go higher. It's what's called "the break". Loosen your lower jaw, start with soft notes and try not to resonate so much in the chest, but focus on bringing your resonance up and to the front. And raise your larynx.
I notice a certain volume limit in the low range too. You can fake a loud voice with male resonance near its upper pitch limit, an extremely high larynx position and placing your vowels and consonants very much to the front of the mouth (in Europe we say "speaking into the mask"). Namoli Brennet uses this for singing sometimes.
I'm unfamiliar with the term "call voice". But I think what you mean could be one of the keys to feminizing your voice. If you're familiar with using the passaggio in singing, then go into the passaggio from above and just stay there as you go lower and lower and you'll get a much more female-sounding low end (don't go deeper than the D3 though, that's male turf). In other words, do as though you were in passaggio, even though you could use chest voice, and you'll obtain a feminized sound. Keep a loose lower jaw.
Hope this helps,
Amy
it's incredible that so many messages poured in during the short time that I didn't keep up with the boards. And good to hear that a lot of people are deciding to make the trip to Korea :-)
Regarding the speaking voice: Typical male speaking voices have F0s between G2 and C#3. D3 to F#3 is the gender-neutral zone and G3 to C4 is female territory. Even as females speak more melodically than males, it doesn't make sense to practice notes higher than, say, A4 for speaking. Nobody uses higher notes in speaking, not even at the ends of questions, except maybe to comfort infants or the like.
Quote from: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 01:27:10 PM
The highest note I can reach with these warm ups is F4 maybe if I really push a G4 buts it's super hard to get there and it's really thin sounding. Should I just not try to get that high up?
Anyone can go higher than a G4. The thing is, with male resonance you can't. If you're using female resonance (or, initially, falsetto) you can go higher. It's what's called "the break". Loosen your lower jaw, start with soft notes and try not to resonate so much in the chest, but focus on bringing your resonance up and to the front. And raise your larynx.
Quote from: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 12:37:05 PM
2. Can you produce large volume female voice with the method taught in voice therapy? Most of the trans-girls I saw on youtube speak very softly... but I want to sound energetic.
I notice a certain volume limit in the low range too. You can fake a loud voice with male resonance near its upper pitch limit, an extremely high larynx position and placing your vowels and consonants very much to the front of the mouth (in Europe we say "speaking into the mask"). Namoli Brennet uses this for singing sometimes.
Quote from: alexiakk on February 03, 2014, 12:37:05 PM
3. why do females have such a wide range of "middle register"? Is this trainable? I don't think this one has too much to deal with the vocal cords size... as females even alto have almost an octave of middle register. Leggerio tenors or tenorino might have similar size of cords, but still the range of zona di passaggio is only about a 4th. Is this somehow related to speech habits (ok I saw that middle register is what US vocal coaches called "call voice", so that's what I think)?
I'm unfamiliar with the term "call voice". But I think what you mean could be one of the keys to feminizing your voice. If you're familiar with using the passaggio in singing, then go into the passaggio from above and just stay there as you go lower and lower and you'll get a much more female-sounding low end (don't go deeper than the D3 though, that's male turf). In other words, do as though you were in passaggio, even though you could use chest voice, and you'll obtain a feminized sound. Keep a loose lower jaw.
Hope this helps,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on February 05, 2014, 09:45:39 PM
Post by: alexiakk on February 05, 2014, 09:45:39 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on February 04, 2014, 03:19:47 PM
Hi all,
it's incredible that so many messages poured in during the short time that I didn't keep up with the boards. And good to hear that a lot of people are deciding to make the trip to Korea :-)
Regarding the speaking voice: Typical male speaking voices have F0s between G2 and C#3. D3 to F#3 is the gender-neutral zone and G3 to C4 is female territory. Even as females speak more melodically than males, it doesn't make sense to practice notes higher than, say, A4 for speaking. Nobody uses higher notes in speaking, not even at the ends of questions, except maybe to comfort infants or the like.
Anyone can go higher than a G4. The thing is, with male resonance you can't. If you're using female resonance (or, initially, falsetto) you can go higher. It's what's called "the break". Loosen your lower jaw, start with soft notes and try not to resonate so much in the chest, but focus on bringing your resonance up and to the front. And raise your larynx.
I notice a certain volume limit in the low range too. You can fake a loud voice with male resonance near its upper pitch limit, an extremely high larynx position and placing your vowels and consonants very much to the front of the mouth (in Europe we say "speaking into the mask"). Namoli Brennet uses this for singing sometimes.
I'm unfamiliar with the term "call voice". But I think what you mean could be one of the keys to feminizing your voice. If you're familiar with using the passaggio in singing, then go into the passaggio from above and just stay there as you go lower and lower and you'll get a much more female-sounding low end (don't go deeper than the D3 though, that's male turf). In other words, do as though you were in passaggio, even though you could use chest voice, and you'll obtain a feminized sound. Keep a loose lower jaw.
Hope this helps,
Amy
Thanks Amy for replying!! An evidence that I'm pretty sure I'm not using falsetto in C6 is that I can connect it very smoothly back to lower chest voice range when singing descending scales - and I'm kinda adapted to it. However, I really have a difficulty in connection when doing ascending scales and thus I tend to "push" through passaggios instead of transition smoothly... no problem with lip trills though.
As for the "mask" - I think this is interesting as my new vocal coach always use this term ;D "Always singing forwardly" and "Always sing in the mask". But when doing ascending scale through the first passaggio, I feel uncomfortable and even suspicious about whether I'm singing in falsetto... as it's weak and I don't know how to strengthen it (stuck in throat!)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: michelle_h on February 05, 2014, 11:29:58 PM
Post by: michelle_h on February 05, 2014, 11:29:58 PM
Hi all,
First off, thanks to all that have posted such great info. Jessie has me booked for May 8th. Wondered if anyone has any advice for someone travelling alone to get the VFS done. From what I gather most of you who've completed this had a travel companion who could speak for you. So...getting meals, dealing with the hotel staff, and getting back to the clinic etc. for a follow up I'm sure will be a challenge without being able to speak for a week.
On another note, the boyfriend is nervous I'm planning this. He thinks my voice is just fine and I don't need this. He's afraid this procedure will change my voice so quickly I'll have to explain myself to his kids and parents. They don't know about my past. My understanding is there will be a change up front but the bulk of the voice change will take place over the course of a year provided the voice exercises are followed. I don't need this to pass, but like others have mentioned it would be nice to have a natural sounding voice without effort or thinking about it. I teach in computer labs and video production studios so I'm hoping to be able to speak loudly without my voice dropping or cracking which it does now and then. Also would like to record tutorial videos for my students. Can't stand my voice at the moment so I've avoided that as much as possible.
Thanks for any advice / help,
Michelle
First off, thanks to all that have posted such great info. Jessie has me booked for May 8th. Wondered if anyone has any advice for someone travelling alone to get the VFS done. From what I gather most of you who've completed this had a travel companion who could speak for you. So...getting meals, dealing with the hotel staff, and getting back to the clinic etc. for a follow up I'm sure will be a challenge without being able to speak for a week.
On another note, the boyfriend is nervous I'm planning this. He thinks my voice is just fine and I don't need this. He's afraid this procedure will change my voice so quickly I'll have to explain myself to his kids and parents. They don't know about my past. My understanding is there will be a change up front but the bulk of the voice change will take place over the course of a year provided the voice exercises are followed. I don't need this to pass, but like others have mentioned it would be nice to have a natural sounding voice without effort or thinking about it. I teach in computer labs and video production studios so I'm hoping to be able to speak loudly without my voice dropping or cracking which it does now and then. Also would like to record tutorial videos for my students. Can't stand my voice at the moment so I've avoided that as much as possible.
Thanks for any advice / help,
Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 06, 2014, 10:17:02 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 06, 2014, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: samantha.mich on February 03, 2014, 03:33:43 PMOh she is nice yes. Tries to do something to help me, though I think she overestimates how well my voice is as she said I dont need to focus on learning prosody changes anymore but I know I do as others have noticed it. Still she is good and has had quite a few trans-patients. I actually did just today send he links to some of the youtube videos from Yeson as she has a cold and cannot work this week, maybe she will not be that totally opposed to me even mentioning any kind of surgery after that - it would be kind of good to hear her opinion on it and if I should still want to have VFS after the training in this year, I would like to have a voice therapist to wrok with me afterwards to get things back into shape again.
Sounds like your therapist is a sweetie! I will try this as well. So what then is an expectable range note wise to practice speaking in my female range? I can hit and speak at A3 to C4 (to me this sounds weird). but my male voice is more like A2 to C3.... I just want to make some progress while I'm saving for surgery. Thanks!
Amy explained the part on natural speaking ranges rather well. I would however really not focus too much on pitch at this point and especially not if you are aiming for a VFS. Rainig pitch can cause tension, it can make it harder to train the other parameters and the success of training a higher pitch is lost with VFS as you dont need it anymore then. So better focus on resonance, inflection, prosody, melody, sound and other qualities like that as well as expanding your (singing) range and improving your breathing and get over that "break". The whole "raining your larynx" thing is critical to reach higher notes and resonance and the breathing as well as relaxing the jaw is a key towards get over the break. All of this has nothing to do with raising your average speaking pitch and it is plenty of work as it is, so I would focus on that. Me for example - I am now actualyl (which is kind of awkward) deliberately speaking in a lower pitch thatn I would like to just because I know that otherwise the hypertension is getting worse again and that is what I need to cure before any next step.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: samantha.mich on February 06, 2014, 01:48:28 PM
Post by: samantha.mich on February 06, 2014, 01:48:28 PM
Amy and Anjaq, Thank you for answering my questions! Ok I'm practicing at least once sometimes twice a day the exercises that Jenny posted along with some of the other tips I've received on this thread and on you tube. Now if I don't focus so much on pitch as Anjaq has suggested since I'm aiming to have VFS before the end of this year. How will be able to know if the other parts of my voice are correct sounding (resonance, inflection,prosody and melody) if I'm practicing at a lower pitch? Is this a ridiculous question? And I'm not really sure how to even practice prosody. I very much appreciate your time. Thanks!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 06, 2014, 05:16:42 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 06, 2014, 05:16:42 PM
Well I guess you could try to raise pitch to test it but I guess generally if you sound like a female with a very deep voice, you are doing great. That wont really work with a 100 Hz baritone or something like that, but if you get resonance trained by raising the larynx, your pitch will go up a tad anyways . I guess just raise th epitch a little bit to a point where it is not straining, where you are still totally free to have a melody and go up and down without hitting a ceiling. if you feel that the voice is tight, constrained, sounding and you can not go up several semitones during speech (because of intonation and melody and prosody) from that point without straining, then you are aiming too high. My guess would be like 140-160 Hz or so. the best would be to do this with a trans experienced voice trainer though, they can evaluate the progress and also should know about prosody, i have never trained that myself. I guess basically training that consists of repeating recorded female voices or something?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Expressgirl on February 17, 2014, 07:42:21 PM
Post by: Expressgirl on February 17, 2014, 07:42:21 PM
I see that most people stay in Gangnam. I don't really want to because I would like to be centrally located for the rest of my stay. Do you think that will be an issue? The hotel, PJ hotel is 5 minutes from the subway station so I should be able to get around easily and get to the Yeson center on the three days I need to.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 18, 2014, 02:00:49 AM
Post by: barbie on February 18, 2014, 02:00:49 AM
My present schedule says I will be in Seoul on Feb. 19-20, and March 7-8. For future additional schedules in Seoul, I will let you know, ladies. I hope to meet some of you to have dinner together. I will treat you!
barbie~~
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Boca.Lisa on February 19, 2014, 11:46:53 AM
Post by: Boca.Lisa on February 19, 2014, 11:46:53 AM
express girl
Looks like we'll overlap. Im arriving evening of the 18th. If you want to connect before, please email me or message back.
Hope to see you there (we can type at each other - lol)
Lisa
Looks like we'll overlap. Im arriving evening of the 18th. If you want to connect before, please email me or message back.
Hope to see you there (we can type at each other - lol)
Lisa
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2014, 05:49:21 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2014, 05:49:21 PM
Sooo many going there. Seriously - this is great!!! I would really really love to hear honest before and after recordings from all of you. If Dr Kim is as good as we think he is, we should not have many coming back who have no improvements or hoarseness or lack of volume (after some months healing that is).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Boca.Lisa on February 19, 2014, 06:00:05 PM
Post by: Boca.Lisa on February 19, 2014, 06:00:05 PM
Anjaq, if I can figure out how to attach a file, ill definately post them.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
you can upload voice samples on vocaroo.com or soundcloud and link them - I think to attach files to this forum you need more permissions???
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Expressgirl on February 25, 2014, 09:30:30 PM
Post by: Expressgirl on February 25, 2014, 09:30:30 PM
So I sent Dr Kim a video of my vocal cords to make sure there was nothing that would disqualify me from the procedure. I am a good candidate for the surgery but Dr Kim did find "tension discrepancy is observed on each side of your vocal folds indicating you have hyper functional medialization on phonation on your false vocal fold" He thinks I will need balancing bilateral vocal fold tension, but he will know more during the pre-op examination. Jennie, is this the same issue you had with one vocal cord being thicker than the other? It definitely looks like that from the video. It is weird to think my old voice will be gone forever. I am very hopeful to have a good outcome as my voice used to be really low and monotone.
Title: Re: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on February 25, 2014, 11:54:45 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on February 25, 2014, 11:54:45 PM
Quote from: Expressgirl on February 25, 2014, 09:30:30 PM
So I sent Dr Kim a video of my vocal cords to make sure there was nothing that would disqualify me from the procedure. I am a good candidate for the surgery but Dr Kim did find "tension discrepancy is observed on each side of your vocal folds indicating you have hyper functional medialization on phonation on your false vocal fold" He thinks I will need balancing bilateral vocal fold tension, but he will know more during the pre-op examination. Jennie, is this the same issue you had with one vocal cord being thicker than the other? It definitely looks like that from the video. It is weird to think my old voice will be gone forever. I am very hopeful to have a good outcome as my voice used to be really low and monotone.
Yes that's exactly what I had, and mine was bad. I haven't seen my vocal folds since the post op exam in Seoul, but Dr. Kim said that he had corrected the asymmetry.
As well it was noted pre-op that I had a small blood hemorrhage / damage on the smaller side. He said it was probably the damage that caused the muscle folds to become asymmetric.
Dr. Kim is awesome :D :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: megan2929 on February 26, 2014, 01:28:45 PM
Post by: megan2929 on February 26, 2014, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: michelle_h on February 05, 2014, 11:29:58 PM
Hi all,
First off, thanks to all that have posted such great info. Jessie has me booked for May 8th. Wondered if anyone has any advice for someone travelling alone to get the VFS done. From what I gather most of you who've completed this had a travel companion who could speak for you. So...getting meals, dealing with the hotel staff, and getting back to the clinic etc. for a follow up I'm sure will be a challenge without being able to speak for a week.
On another note, the boyfriend is nervous I'm planning this. He thinks my voice is just fine and I don't need this. He's afraid this procedure will change my voice so quickly I'll have to explain myself to his kids and parents. They don't know about my past. My understanding is there will be a change up front but the bulk of the voice change will take place over the course of a year provided the voice exercises are followed. I don't need this to pass, but like others have mentioned it would be nice to have a natural sounding voice without effort or thinking about it. I teach in computer labs and video production studios so I'm hoping to be able to speak loudly without my voice dropping or cracking which it does now and then. Also would like to record tutorial videos for my students. Can't stand my voice at the moment so I've avoided that as much as possible.
Thanks for any advice / help,
Michelle
So I just had my surgery yesterday so I obviously can't comment first-hand, but Dr. Kim explained that for the first month and half you don't really get much of a change at all because you're not really talking. Around the two month mark is when you get a very rapid change to a higher pitch and you begin your voice exercises. It then continues to improve and sound more natural over the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 26, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
Post by: barbie on February 26, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
Quote from: megan2929 on February 26, 2014, 01:28:45 PM
So I just had my surgery yesterday so I obviously can't comment first-hand, but Dr. Kim explained that for the first month and half you don't really get much of a change at all because you're not really talking. Around the two month mark is when you get a very rapid change to a higher pitch and you begin your voice exercises. It then continues to improve and sound more natural over the rest of the year.
Megan,
Your voice already sounded feminine to my ears, but you still wanted to enhance it. I hope you get what you expected.
Here the level of dust is now normal, but a warning level of micro-dusts in Seoul area will continue until it rains.
Take care!
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on February 26, 2014, 05:57:18 PM
Post by: Shantel on February 26, 2014, 05:57:18 PM
Quote from: barbie on February 26, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
Megan,
Your voice already sounded feminine to my ears, but you still wanted to enhance it. I hope you get what you expected.
Here the level of dust is now normal, but a warning level of micro-dusts in Seoul area will continue until it rains.
Take care!
barbie~~
So nice that you were there to meet up with her, you both looked so good, she's just a doll face isn't she Barbie?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Expressgirl on February 26, 2014, 06:11:50 PM
Post by: Expressgirl on February 26, 2014, 06:11:50 PM
Hey BocaLisa. Sure, we can meet, where are you staying? I am going to be staying at the PJ hotel.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: michelle_h on March 03, 2014, 10:05:02 PM
Post by: michelle_h on March 03, 2014, 10:05:02 PM
Hi Megan,
Is your post-op exam this Wednesday? Hope recovery is going well. How many days after the exam are you staying?
I was curious how many days most stayed after the exam. Jessie told me I could leave the next day. I thought I might stay a few extra days just in case.
Thanks for your previous reply too.
Michelle
Is your post-op exam this Wednesday? Hope recovery is going well. How many days after the exam are you staying?
I was curious how many days most stayed after the exam. Jessie told me I could leave the next day. I thought I might stay a few extra days just in case.
Thanks for your previous reply too.
Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on March 04, 2014, 04:58:58 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on March 04, 2014, 04:58:58 AM
Quote from: Shantel on February 26, 2014, 05:57:18 PM
So nice that you were there to meet up with her, you both looked so good, she's just a doll face isn't she Barbie?
I have to agree, major doll face! :D :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: megan2929 on March 07, 2014, 03:53:03 AM
Post by: megan2929 on March 07, 2014, 03:53:03 AM
Quote from: michelle_h on March 03, 2014, 10:05:02 PM
Hi Megan,
Is your post-op exam this Wednesday? Hope recovery is going well. How many days after the exam are you staying?
I was curious how many days most stayed after the exam. Jessie told me I could leave the next day. I thought I might stay a few extra days just in case.
Thanks for your previous reply too.
Michelle
Hi Michelle, I left the day after the checkup. I was a little worried about that too, just in case they discovered something but luckily it was all fine and Dr. Kim said it was healing great so there was no problem with me leaving the next day. I've updated my other post with more details: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,157812.0.html
Quote from: Jennygirl on March 04, 2014, 04:58:58 AM
I have to agree, major doll face! :D :D
*chubby and round :P (but thanks!) - All you ladies are gorgeous!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Laurelin on March 07, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
Post by: Laurelin on March 07, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
So I went through the whole thread in one go! I decided on getting this done thanks to jenny&abby for sharing their experiences and amazing voices
I have a few questions and I dont want to start a new thread
1-I somehow survived puberty without much T damage, I dont have a visible adams apple and people say that my voice is already in gender ambiguous territory. I did the analyze thing with praat and seems like I am somewhere between 160hz -170hz. I read the case where dr kim denied surgery to a patient because of a female sized voice box. Can I get the surgery with this pitch or am I doomed to get stuck in this place?
2-I have been practicing my voice for the last month using the kathe perez mp3 voice tutor, I am currently focusing on resonance but seems like I cant really get the whole "raise your larynx" thing, I cant even check with my hand because the thing is sized like a small peanut and easily disappears when I open my mouth. Can I have a passable voice just with surgery or do I need to get this whole resonance thing down at some point. I just want to speak without effort.
I have a few questions and I dont want to start a new thread
1-I somehow survived puberty without much T damage, I dont have a visible adams apple and people say that my voice is already in gender ambiguous territory. I did the analyze thing with praat and seems like I am somewhere between 160hz -170hz. I read the case where dr kim denied surgery to a patient because of a female sized voice box. Can I get the surgery with this pitch or am I doomed to get stuck in this place?
2-I have been practicing my voice for the last month using the kathe perez mp3 voice tutor, I am currently focusing on resonance but seems like I cant really get the whole "raise your larynx" thing, I cant even check with my hand because the thing is sized like a small peanut and easily disappears when I open my mouth. Can I have a passable voice just with surgery or do I need to get this whole resonance thing down at some point. I just want to speak without effort.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on March 08, 2014, 02:45:29 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on March 08, 2014, 02:45:29 AM
Quote from: Laurelin on March 07, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
1-I somehow survived puberty without much T damage, I dont have a visible adams apple and people say that my voice is already in gender ambiguous territory. I did the analyze thing with praat and seems like I am somewhere between 160hz -170hz. I read the case where dr kim denied surgery to a patient because of a female sized voice box. Can I get the surgery with this pitch or am I doomed to get stuck in this place?
I don't have a visible Adam's apple either. That seems quite common. However, it doesn't say anything about your voice box. A good predictor what vocal range you are is usually not the frequency you speak at, but the lowest pitch you can comfortably reach. If you can make a sound at 100 Hz or below that, I'd say, you definitely have a male voice box. But in any case I'd alert Jessie to that so she can give you proper counseling what to do best in your case.
Quote from: Laurelin on March 07, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
2-I have been practicing my voice for the last month using the kathe perez mp3 voice tutor, I am currently focusing on resonance but seems like I cant really get the whole "raise your larynx" thing, I cant even check with my hand because the thing is sized like a small peanut and easily disappears when I open my mouth. Can I have a passable voice just with surgery or do I need to get this whole resonance thing down at some point. I just want to speak without effort.
If your larynx sort of disappears while you speak, it might just be you're already raising it, which is good. Dr. Kim's surgery only works on pitch, not on resonance, so you might still need to work on that. Remember to keep your larynx up and your jaw relaxed and you should be good to go.
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Laurelin on March 08, 2014, 12:38:56 PM
Post by: Laurelin on March 08, 2014, 12:38:56 PM
The lowest note I can make is g2 and I cant go down from there so maybe I have hope after all ^^
I still have time since I plan to fulltime in january next year and I plan to have the surgery right before that, getting in contact with jessie seems to be the best idea
I am just afraid, going all the way to korea with my hopes up than getting denied would be soul crushing for me
Thanks for helping :D
I still have time since I plan to fulltime in january next year and I plan to have the surgery right before that, getting in contact with jessie seems to be the best idea
I am just afraid, going all the way to korea with my hopes up than getting denied would be soul crushing for me
Thanks for helping :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on March 09, 2014, 04:20:07 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on March 09, 2014, 04:20:07 AM
Hi Laurelin,
g2 is definitely male territory. Not the lowest of male voices, but a male voice, definitely. Most women bottom out somewhere between b2-f3.
My pre-operative bottom is e2, just a minor third lower than you, and I'm a baritone. So I'd guess, you're a tenor, plain and simple.
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: Laurelin on March 08, 2014, 12:38:56 PM
The lowest note I can make is g2 and I cant go down from there so maybe I have hope after all ^^
g2 is definitely male territory. Not the lowest of male voices, but a male voice, definitely. Most women bottom out somewhere between b2-f3.
My pre-operative bottom is e2, just a minor third lower than you, and I'm a baritone. So I'd guess, you're a tenor, plain and simple.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: sad panda on March 09, 2014, 05:38:47 AM
Post by: sad panda on March 09, 2014, 05:38:47 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on March 09, 2014, 04:20:07 AM
Hi Laurelin,
g2 is definitely male territory. Not the lowest of male voices, but a male voice, definitely. Most women bottom out somewhere between b2-f3.
My pre-operative bottom is e2, just a minor third lower than you, and I'm a baritone. So I'd guess, you're a tenor, plain and simple.
Regards,
Amy
How do you know what your lowest is?? You just hum and go the lowest you can without it breaking up? If that is C3 does that mean my voice should be female range?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Laurelin on March 09, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
Post by: Laurelin on March 09, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on March 09, 2014, 04:20:07 AM
Hi Laurelin,
g2 is definitely male territory. Not the lowest of male voices, but a male voice, definitely. Most women bottom out somewhere between b2-f3.
My pre-operative bottom is e2, just a minor third lower than you, and I'm a baritone. So I'd guess, you're a tenor, plain and simple.
Regards,
Amy
thanks! you gave me much needed hope :D
so another question, the surgery raises pitch by around 75hz right? I am already at 160-170hz so it will put me at around 235-245hz. Is it too high or squeaky? I dont know anything about voice so I dont know the female range is. should I be worried about being to high or is this a good spot?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on March 10, 2014, 03:02:42 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on March 10, 2014, 03:02:42 AM
Hi Sad Panda, Laurelin,
Just use a simple vowel ("aaah" works nicely) and let your voice drop. The last note (it might be soft) before the sound becomes choppy and/or raspy is what I'm referring to.
Well, wouldn't it have been better the other way around, if your voice was already female? Then you'd save yourself the expense and hassle!
I wouldn't worry one bit about that. First of all, the technique is tuneable, so if he'll suture up a smaller section of vocal cord, the change won't be as drastic. And 235-245 Hz is only about 2-3 semitones above average, so that's not a whole lot, anyway. The question is rather, is 160-170 Hz your relaxed speaking pitch or is it the trained "feminine inflection" that we all use? You should measure up 75 Hz from relaxed speaking pitch. In my case, the difference between the two is rather drastic, relaxed speaking pitch is 130 Hz, and "trained feminine" is 195 Hz on average.
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: sad panda on March 09, 2014, 05:38:47 AM
How do you know what your lowest is?? You just hum and go the lowest you can without it breaking up? If that is C3 does that mean my voice should be female range?
Just use a simple vowel ("aaah" works nicely) and let your voice drop. The last note (it might be soft) before the sound becomes choppy and/or raspy is what I'm referring to.
Quote from: Laurelin on March 09, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
thanks! you gave me much needed hope :D
Well, wouldn't it have been better the other way around, if your voice was already female? Then you'd save yourself the expense and hassle!
Quote from: Laurelin on March 09, 2014, 04:33:33 PM
so another question, the surgery raises pitch by around 75hz right? I am already at 160-170hz so it will put me at around 235-245hz. Is it too high or squeaky? I dont know anything about voice so I dont know the female range is. should I be worried about being to high or is this a good spot?
I wouldn't worry one bit about that. First of all, the technique is tuneable, so if he'll suture up a smaller section of vocal cord, the change won't be as drastic. And 235-245 Hz is only about 2-3 semitones above average, so that's not a whole lot, anyway. The question is rather, is 160-170 Hz your relaxed speaking pitch or is it the trained "feminine inflection" that we all use? You should measure up 75 Hz from relaxed speaking pitch. In my case, the difference between the two is rather drastic, relaxed speaking pitch is 130 Hz, and "trained feminine" is 195 Hz on average.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 10, 2014, 09:00:23 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 10, 2014, 09:00:23 AM
If 170 Hz is the relaxed speaking voice, I would not really do the surgery. I mean that is just 30 Hz away from a average femal voice or so. So it is slightly under average, if you just do a tiny bit - if you have not done resonance control which you should do anyways then doing so will automatically increase this by 20 Hz or so - then you are well in a good female range while speaking relaxed - what else do you need. Of course if 170 Hz is the trained elevated voice, something which I cannot do at the moment anymore but which I did for a while some years back, then you should go to the relaxed voice for analysis. mine is at about 130-140, my goal would actually be 180-200
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Laurelin on March 10, 2014, 09:48:06 AM
Post by: Laurelin on March 10, 2014, 09:48:06 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on March 10, 2014, 03:02:42 AM
Well, wouldn't it have been better the other way around, if your voice was already female? Then you'd save yourself the expense and hassle!
what I am afraid of is getting stuck in a place where my voice isnt male or female >_< at least there is hope to get it fixed with surgery this way
Quote from: AmyBerlin on March 10, 2014, 03:02:42 AM
I wouldn't worry one bit about that. First of all, the technique is tuneable, so if he'll suture up a smaller section of vocal cord, the change won't be as drastic. And 235-245 Hz is only about 2-3 semitones above average, so that's not a whole lot, anyway. The question is rather, is 160-170 Hz your relaxed speaking pitch or is it the trained "feminine inflection" that we all use? You should measure up 75 Hz from relaxed speaking pitch. In my case, the difference between the two is rather drastic, relaxed speaking pitch is 130 Hz, and "trained feminine" is 195 Hz on average.
160-170hz is my relaxed speaking pitch, here is a sample
https://soundcloud.com/arya-lyrical/untitled
I have been training my voice for the past month and seems like I can easily reach 210-220hz but I still cant do the resonance thing so my voice sounds kinda weird >_< here is another sample at 218hz
https://soundcloud.com/arya-lyrical/9-march-2014
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 10, 2014, 01:08:49 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 10, 2014, 01:08:49 PM
If I were you, I would, before planning any surgery, work on the resonance and infelction and all that other stuff. It is well possible that if you get these things working, which do not change with surgery anyways, your voice could be naturally female sounding. If it does not, you still can add surgery to increase pitch a bit, but I personally think that the main issue is those other parameters. I would try to invest some money in a good personal voice training and/or do some of the online courses, but since these are two different things - surgery/pitch and resonance/inflection/melody and both have to be adressed independently, you should not be held back by the thought of having surgery from training those other things. If you can reach 220 Hz *easily*, you are already way into female range there and this is all that surgery could do for you, bring you in that range - it cannot correct the other issues, so focus on them first. The only thing I heard about resonance in terms of surgery is Dr Thomas - he seems to try to adress this issue as well in patients who absolutely cannot do that by themselves, but his procedure is very invasive.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on March 10, 2014, 10:50:28 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on March 10, 2014, 10:50:28 PM
Laurelin- You will benefit from this surgery in my opinion. I wouldn't have any worry at all about it being too high. My relaxed pitch as recorded at the pre-op exam was 142hz
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on March 12, 2014, 08:01:05 PM
Post by: alexiakk on March 12, 2014, 08:01:05 PM
So recently, I've contacted Dr. Kim again regarding this surgery, and he said if I insisted on cutting my lower range he can perform it for me ::)
Hey Jenny, do you mind if I ask some questions? [please]~~
So you were singing soprano in church for Christmas, and I'm kinda wondering how you feel about singing after VFS. Do you also sound like females when singing? Or only speaking? Do you still have to "mimic" in singing after VFS otherwise it still sounds like a male? How dramatic is the change in timbre (and range) to you from "baritone" to "alto" :-\?
Thanks~~ I'm looking forward to visit Yeson again ;D
Hey Jenny, do you mind if I ask some questions? [please]~~
So you were singing soprano in church for Christmas, and I'm kinda wondering how you feel about singing after VFS. Do you also sound like females when singing? Or only speaking? Do you still have to "mimic" in singing after VFS otherwise it still sounds like a male? How dramatic is the change in timbre (and range) to you from "baritone" to "alto" :-\?
Thanks~~ I'm looking forward to visit Yeson again ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jayme-h on March 29, 2014, 07:22:06 PM
Post by: jayme-h on March 29, 2014, 07:22:06 PM
Hi Jenny,
I'm not usually one to post a lot on forums. I found this thread while doing more research this morning on Yeson. I've been impressed with their work for some time. Anyway to make a long story short. After reading eight pages of the thread I couldn't wait any longer and was able to find your Yeson video on the Web. I have to say that not only is your new voice amazing but the visual presentation between the pre-operative stage, the two month stage and the seven month stage is also amazing. You are a very beautiful young lady and the world is blessed to have you in it.
Jayme
I'm not usually one to post a lot on forums. I found this thread while doing more research this morning on Yeson. I've been impressed with their work for some time. Anyway to make a long story short. After reading eight pages of the thread I couldn't wait any longer and was able to find your Yeson video on the Web. I have to say that not only is your new voice amazing but the visual presentation between the pre-operative stage, the two month stage and the seven month stage is also amazing. You are a very beautiful young lady and the world is blessed to have you in it.
Jayme
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 03, 2014, 12:22:16 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 03, 2014, 12:22:16 AM
Sorry I haven't checked these threads in a while! Apologies!
Thank you so much Jayme! That is really nice of you to say and I hope the video helped with your research :) Yeson has asked me to do another video at the year mark so you can expect another one!
@Alexia
The change in timbre is very noticeable. In fact I was singing a little bit on my way home from work tonight, doing some upper harmonies to male vocals. It was really fun. I hadn't sung in a while, but I still have just as much control over my voice intonation-wise as before. As well my head voice sounds a lot different, like it is more centered and not like falsetto at all. Granted, I was singing very softly.
Congratulations on getting the go-ahead from Dr. Kim :)
Thank you so much Jayme! That is really nice of you to say and I hope the video helped with your research :) Yeson has asked me to do another video at the year mark so you can expect another one!
@Alexia
The change in timbre is very noticeable. In fact I was singing a little bit on my way home from work tonight, doing some upper harmonies to male vocals. It was really fun. I hadn't sung in a while, but I still have just as much control over my voice intonation-wise as before. As well my head voice sounds a lot different, like it is more centered and not like falsetto at all. Granted, I was singing very softly.
Congratulations on getting the go-ahead from Dr. Kim :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: alexiakk on April 04, 2014, 11:58:09 AM
Post by: alexiakk on April 04, 2014, 11:58:09 AM
Jenny, thank you a lot :)
I'm so relieved to hear that the timbre will also change as my biggest worry is that I just become a "male with high voice" after the surgery :D
Going to see Dr. Kim again in July ;D
I'm so relieved to hear that the timbre will also change as my biggest worry is that I just become a "male with high voice" after the surgery :D
Going to see Dr. Kim again in July ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 11:08:49 AM
Post by: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 11:08:49 AM
Jenny, Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread but I think this is relevant and really importaint.
This is a question to all the Post op VFS Girls.
I wanted to ask everyone the following for clarification. Jessie said, "Normal conversation after 30 days" but Dr. Kim said, "The most significant change is at 60 days and to stay silent as close to that as possible". Jen, Sarah and Abby have all posted voice clips at 30 days which sounded significantly different than their pre-op voice and very similar to their 60 day voice. I've texted with ExpressGirl and Jenn90210 who were both in Korea when I was there. Jenn90210 has begun speaking and has seen significant change in her voice at near 30 days while ExpressGirl's result appears more like Megan, who at 30 days was feeling the result was less than desired. I am only 23 days post and have said only a word or 2 which to me sounds the same as my pre-op voice suggesting I've not benefitted much. (yes that makes me nervous and a bit sad)
Can everyone comment on how long until they returned to general conversation and when the most noticeable change took place.
We are all so hopeful to have a wonderful result but it seems like there are a couple of recently post 30 day girls who are not seeing significant changes and as you can imaging its a bit nerve wrecking.
Thanks a bunch!!!
This is a question to all the Post op VFS Girls.
I wanted to ask everyone the following for clarification. Jessie said, "Normal conversation after 30 days" but Dr. Kim said, "The most significant change is at 60 days and to stay silent as close to that as possible". Jen, Sarah and Abby have all posted voice clips at 30 days which sounded significantly different than their pre-op voice and very similar to their 60 day voice. I've texted with ExpressGirl and Jenn90210 who were both in Korea when I was there. Jenn90210 has begun speaking and has seen significant change in her voice at near 30 days while ExpressGirl's result appears more like Megan, who at 30 days was feeling the result was less than desired. I am only 23 days post and have said only a word or 2 which to me sounds the same as my pre-op voice suggesting I've not benefitted much. (yes that makes me nervous and a bit sad)
Can everyone comment on how long until they returned to general conversation and when the most noticeable change took place.
We are all so hopeful to have a wonderful result but it seems like there are a couple of recently post 30 day girls who are not seeing significant changes and as you can imaging its a bit nerve wrecking.
Thanks a bunch!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:00:44 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:00:44 PM
Both Jessie and Dr. Kim will tell you that with some people it can take up to 2 months to notice any difference at all. This is due to swelling of the vocal cords from surgery. Some people get rid of the swelling faster than others. Drinking a TON of water will help with this as well as staying away from overly salty/sweet/spicy/greasy foods.
Something that a lot of people miss is that I was talking extremely quietly while using my voice at around the month mark. Like, almost a whisper. If I would have pushed it any more than that it probably would have been lower.
Stick with it, and do not give up hope. Also keep in mind you will have to retrain your brain to access the higher pitches instead of just using the relaxed lower register that you used to have. This will take many months if you hadn't already assimilated a female voice pre-op.
Never give up hope. I'm sure that Dr. Kim did a wonderful job. If he showed you the post surgical result and your vocal cords have been successfully shortened, there's not really any chance of not noticing a difference once things are healed. It's physics! ;)
Something that a lot of people miss is that I was talking extremely quietly while using my voice at around the month mark. Like, almost a whisper. If I would have pushed it any more than that it probably would have been lower.
Stick with it, and do not give up hope. Also keep in mind you will have to retrain your brain to access the higher pitches instead of just using the relaxed lower register that you used to have. This will take many months if you hadn't already assimilated a female voice pre-op.
Never give up hope. I'm sure that Dr. Kim did a wonderful job. If he showed you the post surgical result and your vocal cords have been successfully shortened, there's not really any chance of not noticing a difference once things are healed. It's physics! ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:01:11 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:01:11 PM
And don't feel bad, you're not hijacking at all :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:32:31 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:32:31 PM
Here is a graph that will maybe ease your mind.
This shows (to the best of my memory) how my range changed from pre op through the first 7 months
The red squares are an approximation of my fundamental frequency in normal speech. The blue rectangles show my minimum/maximum range. Obviously when I was where you are now so early in recovery, I wasn't actually testing my range to the fullest extent. This is where it seemed to be though.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFGBbzlG.png&hash=a1808baeeda0f4e3658e9c7267e76313aedc8906)
I hope this helps!
This shows (to the best of my memory) how my range changed from pre op through the first 7 months
The red squares are an approximation of my fundamental frequency in normal speech. The blue rectangles show my minimum/maximum range. Obviously when I was where you are now so early in recovery, I wasn't actually testing my range to the fullest extent. This is where it seemed to be though.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFGBbzlG.png&hash=a1808baeeda0f4e3658e9c7267e76313aedc8906)
I hope this helps!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 02:42:22 PM
Post by: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 02:42:22 PM
Thanks. What tool did you use to do this? I'd love to chart mine. I know Dr. Kim told me my "boy" voice was 167hz and trained was 207hz but that was top of range.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:47:51 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 02:42:22 PM
Thanks. What tool did you use to do this? I'd love to chart mine. I know Dr. Kim told me my "boy" voice was 167hz and trained was 207hz but that was top of range.
Girl, you're gonna do great. Don't even fret about it ;)
I used Adobe Illustrator to put the graph together and eye'd it, happy to send you the vector file if you like!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 15, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
Post by: anjaq on April 15, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
QuoteAlso keep in mind you will have to retrain your brain to access the higher pitches instead of just using the relaxed lower register that you used to have.I would like to know a bit more about this. How does it differ from pre-op voice training? I mean, my logopaedist now keeps trying to get me speaking in a higher pitch but I have a hard time keeping it up there for long even if it is physically no issue but my mind keeps going low into a more relaxed lower voice. Is this similar to what you describe that it has to be trained ? If so, it would mean that even after a surgery you still would have to train to speak in a higher pitch just as it is trained in non-ops to get the pitch up? Or is it differently?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 05:11:51 PM
Post by: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 05:11:51 PM
Anjaq, its different unlike voice training where you are gradually increasing pitch while focussing on inflection, the lip trills used post surgery is more like the warm up a singer might use. It expands the range.
Here's a link.
http://www.yesonvc.net/disease/voiceMovie6.asp
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 16, 2014, 02:50:07 AM
Post by: anjaq on April 16, 2014, 02:50:07 AM
Thanks, I will watch the video. I did not get the difference now - the gradual increase in pitch and inflection are what you should do together with lip trills post surgery?
Its what I presently am doing - usually we start in sessions with a lot of lip trills and glissandos to expand range and get rid of any breaks, then we do a bit of pitch training, basically just slowly increasing pitch a bit with lip trills and then vowels and then speaking words in that range. Sometimes we also do som inflection training, usually to liberate my voice to allow itself to go quite up in pitch in some words in a sentence or within a word even. I seem to have a bit of a blockade going over the "break" into head voice in mid sentence. Is that similar to what you do post surgery as I read it the way that you also are doing pitch training and warmups, although inflection training is probably something that is universal and can be done at any time - the same as resonance training. If those two are not done pre surgery they probably will have to be done later anyways?
Its what I presently am doing - usually we start in sessions with a lot of lip trills and glissandos to expand range and get rid of any breaks, then we do a bit of pitch training, basically just slowly increasing pitch a bit with lip trills and then vowels and then speaking words in that range. Sometimes we also do som inflection training, usually to liberate my voice to allow itself to go quite up in pitch in some words in a sentence or within a word even. I seem to have a bit of a blockade going over the "break" into head voice in mid sentence. Is that similar to what you do post surgery as I read it the way that you also are doing pitch training and warmups, although inflection training is probably something that is universal and can be done at any time - the same as resonance training. If those two are not done pre surgery they probably will have to be done later anyways?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 16, 2014, 03:01:33 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 16, 2014, 03:01:33 AM
Anjaq- It sounds to me like you've got some really amazing voice training going on. To me you seem very lucky to have found such a great resource. Regardless if you end up deciding to have the surgery or not, the experience you are gaining with it seems extremely helpful. If I would have had a voice coach like you do, I may not have even needed surgery!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 16, 2014, 09:00:34 AM
Post by: anjaq on April 16, 2014, 09:00:34 AM
Quote from: Boca.Lisa on April 15, 2014, 05:11:51 PMOk, this is basically what I do as a daily practice for the past months now except the "cool down" part. They are pretty cool exercises, helped me a lot to get rid of the "break" between chest voice and head voice to a good degree. It still is there but not as prominent. I understand that these are basically restorative voice trainings which was the focus of my voice therapy in the past months to restore it from the issues I had with speaking too high in pitch without training. Seems the same are used post surgically. What we also do a lot is to go from the lip trill to vowels - basically move from lip trill over to the /w/ phonation and then keep the airflow but open the mouth to make a vowel sound and then maybe even change the pitch on that. Sadly I think that most of these don't really help me that much with the genderification of my voice. The pitch in daily life is the same or has even dropped as my vocal chords are relaxing more, it does little towards resonance.
http://www.yesonvc.net/disease/voiceMovie6.asp
So I guess basically after surgery what they do is to give you the exercises that are designed to simply restore and heal the voice, but they do not make a lot of effort to feminize it further? I may have misread that but I had the impression that there was also something about changing pitch deliberately to get the brain used to the higher pitch. I could use that definitely - just tell my brain to just use the higher pitch that I am able to use of course and cut out the lower pitches :P
My voice therapist however said, if I should do that surgery, she will do these restorative trainings with me to get the voice as good as it still can be after a surgery (she does not trust this procedure at all) and minimize breathiness and such. But she seems to be really motivated to do her best to get my voice well enough now to distract me from the thought of surgical options ;) :P - Even wants to take a look at the FYFV Videos together with me to see if we can utilize some of that.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on April 17, 2014, 01:49:32 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on April 17, 2014, 01:49:32 AM
Dear Jenny, all,
wow, I just took a short break from the forum and a whole slew of new postings awaits! My own trip to Korea is only 3 days away and I am getting a weird mix of giddy and nervous. My body apparently doesn't really know how to feel yet.
Can you send me the vector file as well, Jenny, pretty please? For now, use e96582d3@opayq.com as my email address. I'll reply with my "official" one, I just don't want to put it out here for every spambot on the planet.
Have a great day,
Amy
wow, I just took a short break from the forum and a whole slew of new postings awaits! My own trip to Korea is only 3 days away and I am getting a weird mix of giddy and nervous. My body apparently doesn't really know how to feel yet.
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 15, 2014, 02:47:51 PM
I used Adobe Illustrator to put the graph together and eye'd it, happy to send you the vector file if you like!
Can you send me the vector file as well, Jenny, pretty please? For now, use e96582d3@opayq.com as my email address. I'll reply with my "official" one, I just don't want to put it out here for every spambot on the planet.
Have a great day,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 17, 2014, 02:05:36 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 17, 2014, 02:05:36 AM
Sent :)
Keep in mind I just eye'd it, but it is accurate to the best of my memory
Keep in mind I just eye'd it, but it is accurate to the best of my memory
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: cjdougan on April 19, 2014, 03:11:41 AM
Post by: cjdougan on April 19, 2014, 03:11:41 AM
Hi Jenny,
I signed up to Susan's just to thank you for this thread, also, thank all the other girls who have since went to Yeson for VFS.
I'm booked for surgery on the 5th of June, one year and one day after my SRS ;D
Christine
I signed up to Susan's just to thank you for this thread, also, thank all the other girls who have since went to Yeson for VFS.
I'm booked for surgery on the 5th of June, one year and one day after my SRS ;D
Christine
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on April 21, 2014, 12:37:02 PM
Post by: kira21 ♡♡♡ on April 21, 2014, 12:37:02 PM
Can I ask how your singing voice is affected? Did you need to re-learn things? Is it comfortable and does it sound just as femme as your speaking voice?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 21, 2014, 05:57:17 PM
Post by: anjaq on April 21, 2014, 05:57:17 PM
Oh, I am wondering one more thing now that I have talked to someone who was at Yesons on the phone - she mentioned that she feels it is a bit harder to take in air, especially when singing. My voice doctors told me that this may be an issue regarding sports and such - that it is harder to get in as much air as before. Makes sense as the airway post surgery is 1/3 smaller. Is it hard to get used to that?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on April 21, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on April 21, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
Oh wow, now that's something I want to hear some experience about too, since I'm a runner :) it would in effect mean 1/3 VO2
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2014, 01:22:28 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on April 22, 2014, 01:22:28 AM
Quote from: cjdougan on April 19, 2014, 03:11:41 AM
Hi Jenny,
I signed up to Susan's just to thank you for this thread, also, thank all the other girls who have since went to Yeson for VFS.
I'm booked for surgery on the 5th of June, one year and one day after my SRS ;D
Christine
You're quite welcome :) And congratulations on your upcoming procedure with Dr. Kim!
Quote from: kira21 ♡♡♡ on April 21, 2014, 12:37:02 PM
Can I ask how your singing voice is affected? Did you need to re-learn things? Is it comfortable and does it sound just as femme as your speaking voice?
My singing voice is affected, but learning proper resonance control is still a must. I haven't tried to sing much, but I know I can. There is somewhat less power behind my voice than there used to be, but I can still belt... I am very careful about it. The last thing I would want to do is damage my voice.
Overall it does sound a bit different, and I am still regaining control.. But it has become much better in the past 4 months :)
Quote from: anjaq on April 21, 2014, 05:57:17 PM
Oh, I am wondering one more thing now that I have talked to someone who was at Yesons on the phone - she mentioned that she feels it is a bit harder to take in air, especially when singing. My voice doctors told me that this may be an issue regarding sports and such - that it is harder to get in as much air as before. Makes sense as the airway post surgery is 1/3 smaller. Is it hard to get used to that?
I haven't noticed that at all, even with a 1/2 suture point. It's never been a problem for me, and I am well accustomed to how a restricted airway feels (I have allergy and exercised induced asthmatic symptoms - for which I take an inhaler at times).
Quote from: MeganChristine on April 21, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
Oh wow, now that's something I want to hear some experience about too, since I'm a runner :) it would in effect mean 1/3 VO2
It feels no different to me really, and if you think about it why would it- Yeson will not shorten the length to any less than that of a cis female. So it would seem to me that a cis female would have the same difficulty breathing?
Perhaps when my vocal cords were still very swollen it might have had an effect, but even then I did not notice a difference. You will probably be fine is my guess... But if it's definitely a big concern you have I would for sure ask Jessie/Dr. Kim! They always seem happy to answer questions like that.
Lately Jessie has taken some time to get back to me, which makes me wonder if they have a lot of incoming emails to deal with. But she does get back
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: @Diana on April 22, 2014, 03:12:53 AM
Post by: @Diana on April 22, 2014, 03:12:53 AM
Super Amazing , thank you for sharing !!!
I had VFS in 2007 at Yanhee hospital in Bangkok, it was good but i felt like something stuck in my throat all the time and felt uncomfortable most of the time , few years later i went back to Thailand again to have adam's apple shaving with another surgeon, he accidentally removed the vocal cord that tied up together, so my voice is now back to normal deep voice ... so Yeson is the choice I'm planning to go ASAP
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 22, 2014, 06:15:23 AM
Post by: anjaq on April 22, 2014, 06:15:23 AM
Quote from: DianaWonderWoman on April 22, 2014, 03:12:53 AMhe accidentally removed the vocal cord that tied up together, so my voice is now back to normal deep voice ... so Yeson is the choice I'm planning to go ASAP [/color]Oh thats a crazy story - how could he accidentially remove that. Will they reimburse you for the damage t pay for some of the costs to restore the suture? What was the VFS that you had before like?
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 22, 2014, 01:22:28 AMAh - I guess it is not that you would run into a problem with it generally, probably just a subjective thing as one is used to breathe differently and now has to adjust? That was all I was wondering about - I have no doubt that you will get enough air - should be no problem at all. Just that it may feel different as that woman I was talking to describ
It feels no different to me really, and if you think about it why would it- Yeson will not shorten the length to any less than that of a cis female. So it would seem to me that a cis female would have the same difficulty breathing?
Lately Jessie has taken some time to get back to me, which makes me wonder if they have a lot of incoming emails to deal with. But she does get back
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on May 26, 2014, 10:22:24 PM
Post by: AshleyL on May 26, 2014, 10:22:24 PM
Hello! I'm little late to the party, I know, but I wanted to express my thanks to Jenny and everyone else who's contributed to this thread. I saw that Jenny was saying she was going to take a step back from having a major role in this thread, but I'm hoping that some of you are still checking up on it!
I first found out about Yeson through Youtube a few weeks ago, and interestingly enough, the first video I happened to watch was Jenny's. I was blown away by the results! I've been post op and living full time for about 8-9 years now, and while most people don't seem to look at me strangely when I speak and my friends and family say my voice is just fine, it has always been a bit of a sticking point for me - I've never quite liked the way my voice sounds. Actually, generally I think it sounds okay to myself, but I'm well aware that what I hear when I talk is very different from what other people hear when I speak, given the way that sound resonates within the skull. I always semi-cringe when I hear my own recorded voice.
In the end, I think SarahR put it best when she said that she just didn't want to have to worry about maintaining her voice all the time. I agree in that I think exercising strict control over your voice at all times affects you in subtle ways, you avoid participating in certain things for fear of slipping. I feel apprehensive when meeting new people, talking on the phone, or, being an avid gamer, talking to people over voice chat when your identity and relationship essentially rides on the sound of your voice.
As it is, I'm hoping to schedule surgery with Yeson in the fall, around October. I was wondering though, has anybody here had the surgery who had previously been living full time and stealth for an extended period of time? How did you explain away the change in the pitch and quality of your voice? With my job there is a relatively high staff turn over rate, and it has been long enough that the number of people who know about my history has dwindled down to a small fraction of the people I consistently work with. Am I going to have to come out all over again?
I first found out about Yeson through Youtube a few weeks ago, and interestingly enough, the first video I happened to watch was Jenny's. I was blown away by the results! I've been post op and living full time for about 8-9 years now, and while most people don't seem to look at me strangely when I speak and my friends and family say my voice is just fine, it has always been a bit of a sticking point for me - I've never quite liked the way my voice sounds. Actually, generally I think it sounds okay to myself, but I'm well aware that what I hear when I talk is very different from what other people hear when I speak, given the way that sound resonates within the skull. I always semi-cringe when I hear my own recorded voice.
In the end, I think SarahR put it best when she said that she just didn't want to have to worry about maintaining her voice all the time. I agree in that I think exercising strict control over your voice at all times affects you in subtle ways, you avoid participating in certain things for fear of slipping. I feel apprehensive when meeting new people, talking on the phone, or, being an avid gamer, talking to people over voice chat when your identity and relationship essentially rides on the sound of your voice.
As it is, I'm hoping to schedule surgery with Yeson in the fall, around October. I was wondering though, has anybody here had the surgery who had previously been living full time and stealth for an extended period of time? How did you explain away the change in the pitch and quality of your voice? With my job there is a relatively high staff turn over rate, and it has been long enough that the number of people who know about my history has dwindled down to a small fraction of the people I consistently work with. Am I going to have to come out all over again?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on May 27, 2014, 12:14:22 AM
Post by: MeganChristine on May 27, 2014, 12:14:22 AM
Quote from: AshleyL on May 26, 2014, 10:22:24 PM
As it is, I'm hoping to schedule surgery with Yeson in the fall, around October. I was wondering though, has anybody here had the surgery who had previously been living full time and stealth for an extended period of time? How did you explain away the change in the pitch and quality of your voice? With my job there is a relatively high staff turn over rate, and it has been long enough that the number of people who know about my history has dwindled down to a small fraction of the people I consistently work with. Am I going to have to come out all over again?
Hello Ashley,
I've been stealth and post-op for 11 years. I've been pondering the same question myself, but I'm going for the polyps on the vocal folds ;) Not sure how it'll play out in the end, but I guess people here will know by fall how it went :D Been in my current job for the past seven years, so it'll indeed be exciting to see how people will react over time.
I'm going to Yeson in the beginning of July.
-MegC
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on May 27, 2014, 12:45:55 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on May 27, 2014, 12:45:55 AM
Hi Ashley
Both Saskia on this board and me have had our respective VFSs 5 weeks ago, and we've both been full-time for ~20 years. I used a vocal fold tear as an explanation, which was convenient, because my mum had one when she was around the age I am now, and so I could say "the propensity apparently runs in the family".
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: AshleyL on May 26, 2014, 10:22:24 PM
I was wondering though, has anybody here had the surgery who had previously been living full time and stealth for an extended period of time? How did you explain away the change in the pitch and quality of your voice?
Both Saskia on this board and me have had our respective VFSs 5 weeks ago, and we've both been full-time for ~20 years. I used a vocal fold tear as an explanation, which was convenient, because my mum had one when she was around the age I am now, and so I could say "the propensity apparently runs in the family".
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 05:28:59 AM
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 05:28:59 AM
I already told some people at work that I have voice issues and I am going to therapy regularly. I did not tell them about my history. It has been 15 years for me now. If I should go for a VFS, I would say that my voice issues have gotten worse and I need to get a treatment for that. I do not expect too much change in the voice from a VFS - not enough to sound completely different, just a bit more feminine version of my current voice with a bit more pitch but probably more a pitch taht I sometimes use now anyways if I watch it. The difference would be that I dont have days where the voice goes down too much. Of course if you go from a low voice to a high one it is harder to explain but as you said, your coworkers and others alreday do not question the voice, so I guess most differnce will be in how easy it is to generate that voice. It may not even sound that differently in terms of pitch after VFS if you compare your pre-op feminized elevated voice with the post op relaxed voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 09:49:02 AM
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 09:49:02 AM
Congratulations on your surgery! I was actually considering the same explanation, either polyps or nodes of some sort. I'm not entirely sure how to broach the subject, or even if I should until after the procedure and recovery.
The management is aware and supportive of my intentions, so getting the time off will not be a problem (yay for benefits!). In regards to the pitch of my voice and passing, I think I average around 170 Hz when speaking normally, and can reach about 220 or so with effort before breaking into falsetto, so I think there will be a noticeable change in pitch. Even, so, every time I hear my recorded voice I have to wonder why people don't clock me every time I open my mouth.
I've already found an SLP and voice coach to help me after recovery, and I'm actually going to have a few appointments before to see if she can help me out with the overall quality of my voice before the procedure to perhaps get a head start on some exercises.
It's kind of funny, I did the whole voice coaching thing almost 10 years ago when I first started transitioning. It helped, to an extent, but my benefits ran out and I had other things I needed to save money for. Now that all of the expensive surgeries are out of the way (not including Yeson) it's almost like I'm retracing my steps all over again.
Ashley
The management is aware and supportive of my intentions, so getting the time off will not be a problem (yay for benefits!). In regards to the pitch of my voice and passing, I think I average around 170 Hz when speaking normally, and can reach about 220 or so with effort before breaking into falsetto, so I think there will be a noticeable change in pitch. Even, so, every time I hear my recorded voice I have to wonder why people don't clock me every time I open my mouth.
I've already found an SLP and voice coach to help me after recovery, and I'm actually going to have a few appointments before to see if she can help me out with the overall quality of my voice before the procedure to perhaps get a head start on some exercises.
It's kind of funny, I did the whole voice coaching thing almost 10 years ago when I first started transitioning. It helped, to an extent, but my benefits ran out and I had other things I needed to save money for. Now that all of the expensive surgeries are out of the way (not including Yeson) it's almost like I'm retracing my steps all over again.
Ashley
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charlotte on May 27, 2014, 10:25:43 AM
Post by: Charlotte on May 27, 2014, 10:25:43 AM
Hello Ashley,
It's nice to hear from another old-timer. :D :) I transitioned about 16 years ago and I'm stealth and yet here I am having VFS in a couple of weeks.
I've decided that I'm not telling anyone that I'm having VFS. I just don't want to mention the word 'surgery' because even if I lie and say that it's for nodules (my original plan) I worry that someone might be able to connect the dots IYSWIM.
My voice moves around a lot anyway. When I'm talking normally it's between 115-140Hz but if I really have to I can get it to 200Hz. So I think people are used to me having an odd voice. I'm also not expected a huge change post-surgey. Obviously if I end up sounding like Jenny that would be incredible and then I'd very happily deal with awkward questions!
It's nice to hear from another old-timer. :D :) I transitioned about 16 years ago and I'm stealth and yet here I am having VFS in a couple of weeks.
I've decided that I'm not telling anyone that I'm having VFS. I just don't want to mention the word 'surgery' because even if I lie and say that it's for nodules (my original plan) I worry that someone might be able to connect the dots IYSWIM.
My voice moves around a lot anyway. When I'm talking normally it's between 115-140Hz but if I really have to I can get it to 200Hz. So I think people are used to me having an odd voice. I'm also not expected a huge change post-surgey. Obviously if I end up sounding like Jenny that would be incredible and then I'd very happily deal with awkward questions!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 11:50:27 AM
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 11:50:27 AM
Quote from: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 09:49:02 AMTotally! I call it either "transition 2.0" or "transition reloaded" ;)
It's kind of funny, I did the whole voice coaching thing almost 10 years ago when I first started transitioning. It helped, to an extent, but my benefits ran out and I had other things I needed to save money for. Now that all of the expensive surgeries are out of the way (not including Yeson) it's almost like I'm retracing my steps all over again.
For me, basically all major steps were done with 14 years ago. Now some things started out to not go that well anymore and I am retracing some issues, getting hormone therapy fixed to actually work, and I found out on the way that nowadays there are actually things like FFS and VFS which are viable options and not far fetched attempts for the more desparate people. So I am actually reconsidereing a lot. I have done now 20 hours of voice therapy to get my voice in shape - it was quite affected of speaking 16 years in a bad voice, so it can really help, especially to get rid of that breaking point at 220 Hz - it should not be that low, thats most likely something caused by not using your voice in a healthy manner.
What I wonder about explaining it away is - either plan it ahead with the others and say it is something that needs to be done - "why? your voice sounds fine to me?" - or go for it and explain it later in a way that says it was a sudden defect that had to be fixed surgically. The prior is weirder but gives others time to plan ahead for ones absence.
One has to explain something though - 4 weeks of no speaking, 2 of them in Korea and then another month of having a rather bad voice - unless you have a lot of vacation to spare, this is something thet needs explanations.
I find it soooo incredible that the majority of those considering this procedure here at Susans are "old timers", who transitioned a long time ago like me - 10, 15, even 29 years ago. Why is that?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 02:09:19 PM
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 02:09:19 PM
Well, I don't really consider myself an old timer *quite* yet! I'm turning 36 this year, and I still feel very young, thank you very much =P
That said, it's interesting that you mentioned hormone therapy. In my personal experience I really found that hormones did next to nothing for me, aside from some *very* mild development. Nothing really shrunk, and nothing really grew. I guess it doesn't help that I've always had that problem, gaining weight has been nigh impossible for me my entire life. I know, I shouldn't be complaining, but when you're trying to develop some curves, it can be very frustrating. I think my physician took a rather conservative approach, but I haven't really revisited it since (just taking a maintenance dose now). Have you found it's made any difference?
I'm not entirely sure where my break is, I kind of rattled that number off the top of my head. It's probably a bit higher than that, but not by too much. I'll have to check again with the praat software when I get home. But even so, at whatever frequency my break is at, my voice sounds very strained and not very melodic at all. Hopefully the SPL can help out with that.
As for the sick leave, I think any kind of vocal surgery would require a period of non vocalization. Unfortunately, in my line of work I'm speaking and communicating with people on a continual basis, so working is not an option during my recovery, so I'll be taking an extended sick leave for the entire duration. I'm hoping that after 6-7 weeks I can ease myself back in to work. We'll quite literally be playing it by ear, I imagine.
In terms of "old timers" opting for surgery, I imagine it is because we are at a point in our lives where we have enough capitol or credit stored up to the point where it requires considerably less time and planning to get to the point where we can opt to have the procedure done, so a lot of us are 'early adopters'.
That said, it's interesting that you mentioned hormone therapy. In my personal experience I really found that hormones did next to nothing for me, aside from some *very* mild development. Nothing really shrunk, and nothing really grew. I guess it doesn't help that I've always had that problem, gaining weight has been nigh impossible for me my entire life. I know, I shouldn't be complaining, but when you're trying to develop some curves, it can be very frustrating. I think my physician took a rather conservative approach, but I haven't really revisited it since (just taking a maintenance dose now). Have you found it's made any difference?
I'm not entirely sure where my break is, I kind of rattled that number off the top of my head. It's probably a bit higher than that, but not by too much. I'll have to check again with the praat software when I get home. But even so, at whatever frequency my break is at, my voice sounds very strained and not very melodic at all. Hopefully the SPL can help out with that.
As for the sick leave, I think any kind of vocal surgery would require a period of non vocalization. Unfortunately, in my line of work I'm speaking and communicating with people on a continual basis, so working is not an option during my recovery, so I'll be taking an extended sick leave for the entire duration. I'm hoping that after 6-7 weeks I can ease myself back in to work. We'll quite literally be playing it by ear, I imagine.
In terms of "old timers" opting for surgery, I imagine it is because we are at a point in our lives where we have enough capitol or credit stored up to the point where it requires considerably less time and planning to get to the point where we can opt to have the procedure done, so a lot of us are 'early adopters'.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 02:36:34 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 02:36:34 PM
Oh, I was not refering to "old timers" in the terms of age an thus also not financial abilities. I was thinking of "transition age" - I read over and over again that people have transitioned 10, 20 or more years ago and are just NOW after all these years considering going to Yesons. This is what puzzles me - I barely ever saw so many comments of people that transitioned that long ago who plan for surgery again compard to those who are more or less just at the point of transitioning.
I thknk you should get that numbers checked. I am sure the break is higher. You can try lip trills , its an easy exercise and then do glissandos with that. I got rid of my break in just a few sessions. But I guess if you have a voice therapist they will do that anyways. those trainings can really improve voice quality quite a bit. I am a bit disappointed by mine in terms of sounding more feminine, but she surely got my voice health back.
If I would opt for surgery, I would also take a sick leave. I cannot afford 4-6 weeks of vacation for this one event and in the job I am now at, I can do such a thing without being fired ;)
Regarding Hormone therapy. I think this is offtopic for this thread but feel free to PM me so I can share my experiences with what I changed...
I thknk you should get that numbers checked. I am sure the break is higher. You can try lip trills , its an easy exercise and then do glissandos with that. I got rid of my break in just a few sessions. But I guess if you have a voice therapist they will do that anyways. those trainings can really improve voice quality quite a bit. I am a bit disappointed by mine in terms of sounding more feminine, but she surely got my voice health back.
If I would opt for surgery, I would also take a sick leave. I cannot afford 4-6 weeks of vacation for this one event and in the job I am now at, I can do such a thing without being fired ;)
Regarding Hormone therapy. I think this is offtopic for this thread but feel free to PM me so I can share my experiences with what I changed...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Ducks on May 27, 2014, 02:46:07 PM
Post by: Ducks on May 27, 2014, 02:46:07 PM
Quote from: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 02:36:34 PMI fit this description. I transitioned in 1988 and am considering Yeson surgery because I love to sing and want to get my singing voice back, and because my voice has always been something that wasn't quite right for my body, and having it fixed would make me feel better. Ultimately it is only interesting because for so many years there was no option that didn't carry a huge risk of losing your voice altogether. Yeson's approach may not be reversible, but the downside is really negligible compared to the other options that have been out there for the past 20 years.
Oh, I was not referin gto "old timers" in the terms of age an thus also not financial abilities. I was thinkin gof "transition age" - I read over and over again that peopl ehave transitioned 10, 20 or more years ago and are just NOW considering going to Yesons. This is what puzzles me - I barely ever saw so many comments of people that transitioned tha tlong ago who plan for surgery again compard to those who are more or less just at the point of transitioning.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 03:30:55 PM
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 03:30:55 PM
It could be like what Ducks said. From what I've read, the Yeson clinic has only really been performing this procedure since about 2007 (iirc) so before now it could probably have been considered a relatively new and unknown technique.
Thanks to Jenny and everyone else who have so generously posted their results, Yeson's VSF is just now starting to become more widely known, and thus, many people who have been waiting for something like this to be developed or had simply resigned themselves to having a less than optimal voice are lining up to have it done?
Also, having such a procedure be performed endoscopically and being minimally invasive is a huge selling point for me. I was lucky enough to not need to have any kind of tracheal shave done and less scarring is always better in my book.
Thanks to Jenny and everyone else who have so generously posted their results, Yeson's VSF is just now starting to become more widely known, and thus, many people who have been waiting for something like this to be developed or had simply resigned themselves to having a less than optimal voice are lining up to have it done?
Also, having such a procedure be performed endoscopically and being minimally invasive is a huge selling point for me. I was lucky enough to not need to have any kind of tracheal shave done and less scarring is always better in my book.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 05:22:21 PM
Post by: AshleyL on May 27, 2014, 05:22:21 PM
So Anjaq you were correct, I was off by quite a bit. I did a quick praat test with a lip trill and it looks like my break is around 330 Hz, but upon listening to it good lord is it ever cringe worthy! ;D I also verified that my normal speaking/reading range is around 170, though when relaxed/not paying attention it can often drop down to 140-150.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 27, 2014, 06:08:36 PM
Sounds similar to me. I have a break at 350 Hz I think, but I can now go over it after some voice training, mostly the lip trills. My voice average is probably about 150-170, but for some words or sentences it can go down to 140 or even ocassionaly to 130. If I push it a bit I can be at average of 190, but I think the key issue is not so much the average as the lowest sections. If I have a lot of melody, the average will be higher, but it does not help much if there are single words in between that are at 130 Hz - those are the ones that people pick up on and find them odd...
I guess this would be a benefit of glottoplasty - they would be gone...
I guess this would be a benefit of glottoplasty - they would be gone...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on May 28, 2014, 01:01:01 PM
Post by: AshleyL on May 28, 2014, 01:01:01 PM
It sounds like we have very similar ranges. I sometimes hit peaks in normal speaking over 200 Hz, but usually it's just part of my inflection and speech pattern. It's nice to know that I have something of an average range, which hopefully will be given the go ahead for VSF.
From reading over the forums, I do believe that I'm using the 'proper' larynx position; I recall using the 'swallow' technique mentioned on Lena's webpage to locate and learn to manipulate my larynx position. I find when I'm speaking to patients I tend to resonate more in the front of mouth, but when I'm chatting with my friends I think I tend to relax a bit and it moves closer to the back of my oral cavity. Or something.
I do find that my own recorded voice sounds overly nasally to my ears, and I'm hoping to address this and work on the overall quality of my voice with the SPL in a couple of weeks. I'm wondering if I'm being overly critical of my own voice because of what I *think* it should sound like when I hear myself talk.
Sorry if I keep going on and on about everything. I'm sort of babbling on to just kill time; I tend to obsess about things after I've decided on a course of action, and the clinic I going to has horrible hours making it difficult to schedule around work. So here I am all raring to go but with nothing really to do except twiddle my thumbs =P
Ashley
P.S. Anjaq I'd like to send you a PM eventually, but I think I'm still too new of a member to do that yet?
From reading over the forums, I do believe that I'm using the 'proper' larynx position; I recall using the 'swallow' technique mentioned on Lena's webpage to locate and learn to manipulate my larynx position. I find when I'm speaking to patients I tend to resonate more in the front of mouth, but when I'm chatting with my friends I think I tend to relax a bit and it moves closer to the back of my oral cavity. Or something.
I do find that my own recorded voice sounds overly nasally to my ears, and I'm hoping to address this and work on the overall quality of my voice with the SPL in a couple of weeks. I'm wondering if I'm being overly critical of my own voice because of what I *think* it should sound like when I hear myself talk.
Sorry if I keep going on and on about everything. I'm sort of babbling on to just kill time; I tend to obsess about things after I've decided on a course of action, and the clinic I going to has horrible hours making it difficult to schedule around work. So here I am all raring to go but with nothing really to do except twiddle my thumbs =P
Ashley
P.S. Anjaq I'd like to send you a PM eventually, but I think I'm still too new of a member to do that yet?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 28, 2014, 04:26:49 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 28, 2014, 04:26:49 PM
Yes. I need to work more on resonance and such, especially intonation and prosody - pitch is just one issue. I wonder how to train those other things properly. If I try to repeat after recordings, I am not able to follow fast enough. I do some things there but it is not quite right yet.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: inspire on May 29, 2014, 04:39:04 PM
Post by: inspire on May 29, 2014, 04:39:04 PM
So I just got back from South Korea. The surgery went well. Had the botox shot. Since then I have had sore throat n runny nose and been coughing a bit. I am not sure whats wrong. I do sound hoarse. You guys have any feedback. Botox side effects?
I am 10 days post op.
~Riya
I am 10 days post op.
~Riya
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 29, 2014, 09:51:38 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 29, 2014, 09:51:38 PM
With the botox which relaxes things, I would expect to wait 2 weeks after the injection to hear something that doesn't sound totally groggy.. So that would mean @ 21 days post op. As long as you have no pain from stressing vocal cords you are right on track.
You are only 3 days after the botox injection, so things are still VERY "loose".
You are only 3 days after the botox injection, so things are still VERY "loose".
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: inspire on May 29, 2014, 10:08:29 PM
Post by: inspire on May 29, 2014, 10:08:29 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 29, 2014, 09:51:38 PM
With the botox which relaxes things, I would expect to wait 2 weeks after the injection to hear something that doesn't sound totally groggy.. So that would mean @ 21 days post op. As long as you have no pain from stressing vocal cords you are right on track.
You are only 3 days after the botox injection, so things are still VERY "loose".
Thanks Jenny for your inputs :) I have just been coughing and sneezing a bit more past 2 days:(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Roni on May 31, 2014, 08:33:46 PM
Post by: Roni on May 31, 2014, 08:33:46 PM
How much is this procedure now? I know Jenny originally paid 7.5k for the actual surgery itself, and it states even on Yeson's customer consultation page that the surgery is 7.5k, but I read somewhere on here that the surgery has since gone up to $10k? Is that still the price?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on May 31, 2014, 11:13:04 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on May 31, 2014, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: Roni on May 31, 2014, 08:33:46 PM
How much is this procedure now? I know Jenny originally paid 7.5k for the actual surgery itself, and it states even on Yeson's customer consultation page that the surgery is 7.5k, but I read somewhere on here that the surgery has since gone up to $10k? Is that still the price?
Hmm, my estimate was $7.380, at least thats what I'm expecting to pay in July :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 01, 2014, 08:12:34 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 01, 2014, 08:12:34 PM
wow up to 10k???
holy crap!
I guess demand is rising faster than they must be able to handle. I wonder if this is becoming Dr. Kim's most popular procedure
holy crap!
I guess demand is rising faster than they must be able to handle. I wonder if this is becoming Dr. Kim's most popular procedure
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 01, 2014, 08:43:53 PM
Post by: barbie on June 01, 2014, 08:43:53 PM
A few days ago, newspapers here reported that Yeson had successfully treated 8 foreign patients of laryngeal papillomatosis, a rare medical condition of the throat.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhealth.chosun.com%2Fsite%2Fdata%2Fimg_dir%2F2014%2F05%2F30%2F2014053002322_0.jpg&hash=47da1d226fa7473c7a3a37096bf642ab40195ff9)
barbie~~
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhealth.chosun.com%2Fsite%2Fdata%2Fimg_dir%2F2014%2F05%2F30%2F2014053002322_0.jpg&hash=47da1d226fa7473c7a3a37096bf642ab40195ff9)
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: FalseHybridPrincess on June 01, 2014, 10:08:47 PM
Post by: FalseHybridPrincess on June 01, 2014, 10:08:47 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 01, 2014, 08:12:34 PM
wow up to 10k???
holy crap!
I guess demand is rising faster than they must be able to handle. I wonder if this is becoming Dr. Kim's most popular procedure
nah , I emailed them and the cost is still 7.5 usd
quick question
they say you have to stop hormones 14 days prior to surgery
I suppose that includes both e pills and aa ,right?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lena from Kiev on June 01, 2014, 11:14:25 PM
Post by: Lena from Kiev on June 01, 2014, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: FalseHybridPrincess on June 01, 2014, 10:08:47 PMthey say you have to stop hormones 14 days prior to surgeryThe word "hormones" means that they don't know what they are talking about.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: FalseHybridPrincess on June 01, 2014, 11:16:59 PM
Post by: FalseHybridPrincess on June 01, 2014, 11:16:59 PM
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on June 01, 2014, 11:14:25 PM
The word "hormones" means that they don't know what they are talking about.
explain please?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 03, 2014, 12:25:02 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 03, 2014, 12:25:02 AM
Yeah I dunno what Lena means but it only applies to oral estrogen due to clotting risks. When I told them I was having E administered through pellets they said there was nothing to worry about.
I think they know what they are talking about...
I think they know what they are talking about...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jmtl on June 03, 2014, 02:14:40 AM
Post by: Jmtl on June 03, 2014, 02:14:40 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 03, 2014, 12:25:02 AM
Yeah I dunno what Lena means but it only applies to oral estrogen due to clotting risks. When I told them I was having E administered through pellets they said there was nothing to worry about.
I think they know what they are talking about...
Yah! Thats right jenny! And most of the surgery i had , Drs. Would tell me about the hormones, due to possible blood clotting. Btw, Im was with jessie today and i told her about you, and she said you were sweet and a positive girl. ☺️
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 03, 2014, 09:49:24 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 03, 2014, 09:49:24 AM
Dawwww :D
Please say hi for me? I miss Jessie so much!
Please say hi for me? I miss Jessie so much!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jmtl on June 03, 2014, 01:04:52 PM
Post by: Jmtl on June 03, 2014, 01:04:52 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 03, 2014, 09:49:24 AM
Dawwww :D
Please say hi for me? I miss Jessie so much!
Haha ok i will!!! I'll see her today and i will show her this.☺️
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jmtl on June 03, 2014, 10:20:42 PM
Post by: Jmtl on June 03, 2014, 10:20:42 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 03, 2014, 09:49:24 AM
Dawwww :D
Please say hi for me? I miss Jessie so much!
Jessie said hi to you jenny! :) my operation went well, but i coughed 2x just after the operationc cant control it just went out. Did it happened to you?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Gigi_J on June 05, 2014, 12:54:57 PM
Post by: Gigi_J on June 05, 2014, 12:54:57 PM
Hope you're still well Joanne...I just wrote a message in the thread I started in case you haven't seen it yet...sorry for my quiet spell, been in Italy as I explained in that post!
So are you guys saying if you're on hormone patches (as I am) that you don't have to stop taking them 14 days prior to the operation? You only have to stop if they are taken orally?
Think I'll write to Jessie again but I'm sure I mentioned the patches weeks ago and she didn't say I wouldn't have to stop them so I'm totally confused now. Obviously, if I don't have to stop them, the better....less mood swings!! :D
Gx
So are you guys saying if you're on hormone patches (as I am) that you don't have to stop taking them 14 days prior to the operation? You only have to stop if they are taken orally?
Think I'll write to Jessie again but I'm sure I mentioned the patches weeks ago and she didn't say I wouldn't have to stop them so I'm totally confused now. Obviously, if I don't have to stop them, the better....less mood swings!! :D
Gx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kimdp999 on June 05, 2014, 11:42:51 PM
Post by: kimdp999 on June 05, 2014, 11:42:51 PM
Hey there Gigi- definitely please post the reply to the hormone question on here. I'll be heading to Korea the 14th and I just stopped the hormones a couple of days ago (sucks...). I'll be staying at the Riveria, surgery is on the 18th. Can't wait :)
Cheers:)
Kim
Cheers:)
Kim
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on June 07, 2014, 10:21:05 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on June 07, 2014, 10:21:05 AM
Hi all,
well, they had me stop hormone gel, so I don't think it would be any different with patches...
Amy
well, they had me stop hormone gel, so I don't think it would be any different with patches...
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on June 07, 2014, 11:47:07 AM
Post by: Shantel on June 07, 2014, 11:47:07 AM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on June 07, 2014, 10:21:05 AM
Hi all,
well, they had me stop hormone gel, so I don't think it would be any different with patches...
Amy
More than likely they are reducing any clotting risks.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kimdp999 on June 08, 2014, 10:35:29 PM
Post by: kimdp999 on June 08, 2014, 10:35:29 PM
I'm thinking that's correct (blood clots)/DVT from flying. Always imteresting hearing differing opinions though.
Thx
Kim
Thx
Kim
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 09, 2014, 04:33:26 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 09, 2014, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: blankaizabell on June 09, 2014, 05:56:17 AMSounds great. Good for you. I hope you will be willing to do a couple of different pre-op recordings (like just speaking regularly, reading the rainbow passage or something like that) and do the same some moths after the surgery. It is always interesting to see the difference, for yourself as well as for the ones who are planning this as well
i like to travel to south korea soon, i already send them my voice record and thay said is ok, we can do the surgery!
Quote from: Lena from Kiev on June 01, 2014, 11:14:25 PMWell said!
The word "hormones" means that they don't know what they are talking about.
Usually they refer to Estradiol (E2), the main ingredient in regular HT. I guess they dont want to yonfuse patients with specifities, so they just generally say to stop "hormones".
It is a blatant oversimplification though:
Estradiol is only one out of many possible hormones that they do not mention - and most of them pose no issue at all during healing. For example progesterone, testosterone, thyroid hormones - its all hormones...
The next thing that bugs me is that the main reason for this advice is the fear of blood clots, mostly caused by oral estradiol - pills. the probably reason for this is that they have to pass through the liver first and produce a lot of metabolites. Gels or patches should not pose that much of a problem, and since you do not stay in bed for a long time after the surgery, the risk of thrombosis is very small anyways.
And then there is the fact that other women who happen to have their own estradiol are not advised to use estrogen suppressants or something therelike before any surgery. So they go in there with high estradiol levels and come out well.
If you stop HT, your body will be in a state of hormone deprivation, the hypothalamus will start to ask the gonads to make more hormones, your hormone balance will shift and overall the body will probably be stressed. I am not sure if this is the best thing to do.
Of course, if they give you the advice, I would ask them what exactly they want you to stop and why (and if this applies to your form of application as well). Personally, I would not stop progesterone and ask if it is ok to only reduce estradiol gel and also ask how long post op that should be done still. I think I definitely would stop AAs weeks before such a surgery, specifically Spiro, as it actually changes your vocal chords.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 10, 2014, 10:17:33 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 10, 2014, 10:17:33 AM
Quote from: blankaizabell on June 10, 2014, 08:44:12 AMI am not sure I totally understand. But i will try to answer.
It is always interesting to see the difference, for yourself as well as for the ones who are planning this as well-why anjaq? you not recommend this surgery! Is there anybbody here who not recommend this voice surgery! ecouse i still afraid so much! i always heared very bad storys about the voice surgerys! i just desided to do becouse its seems different! Spiro is really change my vocal chords? this surgery is so important for me, becouse i am leaveing as a normal girl so long time and the only thing which is still shows i was born a boy is my voice! (sorry for my english)
I think it it interesting to collect many before and after recordings to see and demonstrate that this really works better than other methods and also to see if in some cases maybe the result is great while in others it is just ok. Up to now, 90% or so of the patients there recommended the surgery and the few exceptions basically came around to a degree later on. It also helps us to see what behaviour improves the chances for a good voice and which don't. For example useing the voice in the first weeks is bad, certain kinds of voice training are good etc.
Recommendations by others are no good thing to base your choice on. I had several people tell me they are totally happy with their voice surgery here in Germany. they never get sirred on the phone anymore, all is great for them. I phoned some of them. Their voices were mostly female sounding but hoarse and broken. I would never want such a voice. biut they are happy and recommended it. Why? Because their expectations were different than mine and they were fulfilled. their goal was to sound female and that they do - I personally want to sound female and not sound hoarse or broken.
I would be very careful - this is also true for FFS and GRS - for some people a numb face is a acceptable price to look female, for some it is acceptable to loose sensation in the vulva or to have no vaginal depth at all after SRS because they either dont care or they are lesbians - or for many other reaons. I have met people who were happy about their SRS, lost all sensation in their genitals but were happy because they could now go to the womans locker room and shower and haf a F in the passport. They recommended their surgeon to others.
Bottom line is, it is always better to get your own picture by looking at examples, listening to them and asking about complications and drawbacks rather than just following recommendations, because your own expectations my differ.
And yes - Spiro is known to change the voice. I would recommend not taking it prior to a voice surgery as it might create a situation for the surgeon that is harder to judge, especially if you ever plan to not take Spiro anymore
May i ask how long you have been living normal as a girl? For me it is 15 years since I started treatments, but I am still having voice issues :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 10, 2014, 06:34:02 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 10, 2014, 06:34:02 PM
Well I am happy that Jenny, Abby, Sarah and a few others did and will provide recordings - it gives a good impression, but you know - more data, more reliability in the statistics. To make sure they were not just the lucky ones where it worked ;)
Spiro is a antiandrogen that is used mainly in the US I think. Spironolactone. Do you take any antiandrogens, or just estrogen and maybe progesterone?
5 years is already a bit. For me it is 15 years. After 5 years, I guess you have some basics changed already?
Spiro is a antiandrogen that is used mainly in the US I think. Spironolactone. Do you take any antiandrogens, or just estrogen and maybe progesterone?
5 years is already a bit. For me it is 15 years. After 5 years, I guess you have some basics changed already?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AlexD on June 12, 2014, 03:33:45 PM
Post by: AlexD on June 12, 2014, 03:33:45 PM
Hi everybody! I read the entire thread and was very excited by people's experience, especially Jenny's. First of all, I'd like to explain my situation. I am a 20yr old guy and I have a very deep voice. My range is C2 - E4 (comfortable speaking tone is about D2 to G2). I am a heterosexual. Maybe you'll say I'm crazy, but I want to raise my voice freq with the help of Yeson. I like to sing very much. I always have had very good control over my voice and can easily reach all the notes of my range. The problem is I want to sing like most men. It's hard to explain, but my dream is to sing in normal tenor/baritone range (A2 - A4 (or higher)). I am saving the money for the surgery, so I'm serious about it. I want to ask you, people, who went through this kind of surgery, some important questions. Someone here (Amy?) said that it is optional about frequency raising. I just think that if my voice would be raised up for a full octave (74hz) it'll become female like. So is this really optional? The other question is a about range. Would my range (2 octaves+) stay with me if I'll go through the surgery (For sure I'll do all the necessary for it)? I would be very happy if anybody here recognize my problem. Thanks!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 12, 2014, 03:42:13 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 12, 2014, 03:42:13 PM
Hi Alex- in your case I would not recommend this surgery. It does make singing more difficult and I doubt that Dr. Kim would perform the surgery for you. I mean you could always ask, or insist, but I honestly would not recommend it unless you are specifically trying to feminize your voice and there is no other option.
I would be very interested to hear what Dr. Kim has to say to you in your case, so if you do ask please let us know? I am very curious :)
Best of luck
I would be very interested to hear what Dr. Kim has to say to you in your case, so if you do ask please let us know? I am very curious :)
Best of luck
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AlexD on June 12, 2014, 03:52:23 PM
Post by: AlexD on June 12, 2014, 03:52:23 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 12, 2014, 03:42:13 PM
Hi Alex- in your case I would not recommend this surgery. It does make singing more difficult and I doubt that Dr. Kim would perform the surgery for you. I mean you could always ask, or insist, but I honestly would not recommend it unless you are specifically trying to feminize your voice and there is no other option.
I would be very interested to hear what Dr. Kim has to say to you in your case, so if you do ask please let us know? I am very curious :)
Best of luck
Oh, thank you very much, Jenny, for your quick reply! I'll sure inform you when I'll ask about it Dr. Kim.
It's really sad if it's true( As I remember, you wrote that you are able to sing already. Can you tell please, what are the difficulties you face while singing with your new voice? It's very interesting for me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 12, 2014, 04:53:58 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 12, 2014, 04:53:58 PM
Oh that is a bit sad to hear, Jenny, that singing is now harder? How so?
Amy Berlin may know best about singing and this surgery. She also had less stitches to not get the full increase in pitch, although it had different reasons. I guess that of course you will loose something at the lower end but not gain as much on the upper end. I am not sure what you think you would gain from this surgery. I have done a vocal analysis some times and I came out at a range that is over 3 octaves. I dont expect the upper range to shift at all if I go for this surgery, if anything then it will drop and has to be regained by training. but at the low end some part would be missing - not a big loss for me, but for a singer who wants to go for the whole spectrum... I know a trans woman who is a singer. She said she doe snot want a surgery because she likes to use the full range for performances - going down deep and all the way up.
Amy Berlin may know best about singing and this surgery. She also had less stitches to not get the full increase in pitch, although it had different reasons. I guess that of course you will loose something at the lower end but not gain as much on the upper end. I am not sure what you think you would gain from this surgery. I have done a vocal analysis some times and I came out at a range that is over 3 octaves. I dont expect the upper range to shift at all if I go for this surgery, if anything then it will drop and has to be regained by training. but at the low end some part would be missing - not a big loss for me, but for a singer who wants to go for the whole spectrum... I know a trans woman who is a singer. She said she doe snot want a surgery because she likes to use the full range for performances - going down deep and all the way up.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 12, 2014, 04:57:19 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 12, 2014, 04:57:19 PM
The surgery is not limited to trans people though, but I am not sure he will do it on males. I asked once and because I dont apply the term transgender to myself, they assumed I was a ciswoman and still offered to do it. As I understand it there are some ciswomen who have voice issues as well
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AlexD on June 12, 2014, 05:16:41 PM
Post by: AlexD on June 12, 2014, 05:16:41 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 12, 2014, 04:53:58 PM
Oh that is a bit sad to hear, Jenny, that singing is now harder? How so?
Amy Berlin may know best about singing and this surgery. She also had less stitches to not get the full increase in pitch, although it had different reasons. I guess that of course you will loose something at the lower end but not gain as much on the upper end. I am not sure what you think you would gain from this surgery. I have done a vocal analysis some times and I came out at a range that is over 3 octaves. I dont expect the upper range to shift at all if I go for this surgery, if anything then it will drop and has to be regained by training. but at the low end some part would be missing - not a big loss for me, but for a singer who wants to go for the whole spectrum... I know a trans woman who is a singer. She said she doe snot want a surgery because she likes to use the full range for performances - going down deep and all the way up.
Anjaq, thank you for your comment!
Yea, I think I understand what you talking about. As for me, I am not afraid to loose at the low-end. I have the full bass octave (c2-c3), and I use it rarely. It would be OK for me to have at least B2 - B4 range. Besides, there are different vocal techniques to produce higher notes (very few male singers produce high Tenor C with full voice). But it's really bad to have for example B2 - F4 natural range because of the surgery. But why it can happen? Disproportional reducing of length and size? Interesting aspect, especially for "singing" patients.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 08:07:59 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 08:07:59 AM
Yes it is harder to sing, I don't have as much range as I once did. But I still can, and on pitch too. It's just range.
I never practice singing btw, I imagine if I did I would be much better at it. Even before the surgery my singing voice had nearly gone to crap from getting out of practice. So I guess I don't honestly know how to correlate that with the surgery itself- but it does seem a little bit harder and not as familiar as it once was. Like I said, I think practice would help immensely but it's just not a personal priority.
So don't get all sad on me ;) I have a feeling Amy will do much better in the singing arena post-op
I never practice singing btw, I imagine if I did I would be much better at it. Even before the surgery my singing voice had nearly gone to crap from getting out of practice. So I guess I don't honestly know how to correlate that with the surgery itself- but it does seem a little bit harder and not as familiar as it once was. Like I said, I think practice would help immensely but it's just not a personal priority.
So don't get all sad on me ;) I have a feeling Amy will do much better in the singing arena post-op
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 09:55:31 AM
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 09:55:31 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 08:07:59 AM
Yes it is harder to sing, I don't have as much range as I once did. But I still can, and on pitch too. It's just range.
I never practice singing btw, I imagine if I did I would be much better at it. Even before the surgery my singing voice had nearly gone to crap from getting out of practice. So I guess I don't honestly know how to correlate that with the surgery itself- but it does seem a little bit harder and not as familiar as it once was. Like I said, I think practice would help immensely but it's just not a personal priority.
So don't get all sad on me ;) I have a feeling Amy will do much better in the singing arena post-op
Hmm.. Am I right that now you are still a bit afraid to push your voice higher with the help of breath support (while singing)? I try not to build illusions, but maybe it's not so familiar cause of the brain habit. I think, it is really necessary to test your voice at least on the basic range to let your brain understand and remember new positions. You know, maybe the alike senses can be felt through using raising-pitch software live with earphones (just thoughts, but maybe It worth testing).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on June 13, 2014, 10:15:37 AM
Post by: AshleyL on June 13, 2014, 10:15:37 AM
So I finally made it to see an SLP. I have to say my experience was very different from my previous one ~8 years ago. If I recall correctly, the doctor I saw previously admitted to not having a lot of experience with transgendered individuals and the voice therapy involved. The specialist I'm seeing now was very open and enthusiastic about helping me with fine tuning my voice to get it to a point where I'm happy with how it sounds and presents. Overall it was a very positive experience and I'm looking forward to working with her.
However, now it puts me on the fence about having VFS :P. While I'm not entirely comfortable with my overall range (average about 170, peaks around 220-230 and lows around 135 Hz) I do realize that a lot of my issues are probably with my overall resonance and personal hangups about how it actually sounds vs what I hear when I speak, though my SLP did say my voice was quite passable. She actually a bit sneaky and made a couple recordings during our interview so that she could sample my voice while I was speaking naturally in conversation, rather than when I was reading a passage with knowledge about being recorded.
I also directed her to this thread as she did show some interest in this surgery when I told her about it. Maybe she'll even join in the conversation! (No pressure if you read this :P)
I had a question though about the recovery period and voice therapy after the procedure though. It's been said that Yeson's technique will only raise the pitch, and have no effect on resonance, and that voice therapy is recommended afterwards; I'm wondering how difficult it was after the procedure? What did you change about the way you were speaking after the procedure (larynx position, loose jaw, etc) and how did it sound before you incorporated all those techniques? Was it the same as your old voice but only with a higher pitch?
However, now it puts me on the fence about having VFS :P. While I'm not entirely comfortable with my overall range (average about 170, peaks around 220-230 and lows around 135 Hz) I do realize that a lot of my issues are probably with my overall resonance and personal hangups about how it actually sounds vs what I hear when I speak, though my SLP did say my voice was quite passable. She actually a bit sneaky and made a couple recordings during our interview so that she could sample my voice while I was speaking naturally in conversation, rather than when I was reading a passage with knowledge about being recorded.
I also directed her to this thread as she did show some interest in this surgery when I told her about it. Maybe she'll even join in the conversation! (No pressure if you read this :P)
I had a question though about the recovery period and voice therapy after the procedure though. It's been said that Yeson's technique will only raise the pitch, and have no effect on resonance, and that voice therapy is recommended afterwards; I'm wondering how difficult it was after the procedure? What did you change about the way you were speaking after the procedure (larynx position, loose jaw, etc) and how did it sound before you incorporated all those techniques? Was it the same as your old voice but only with a higher pitch?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 11:40:18 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 11:40:18 AM
Quote from: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 09:55:31 AM
Hmm.. Am I right that now you are still a bit afraid to push your voice higher with the help of breath support (while singing)? I try not to build illusions, but maybe it's not so familiar cause of the brain habit. I think, it is really necessary to test your voice at least on the basic range to let your brain understand and remember new positions. You know, maybe the alike senses can be felt through using raising-pitch software live with earphones (just thoughts, but maybe It worth testing).
You might be right, but I think physics played a role as well. I have an abnormally large larynx and equally large vocal cords. Dr. Kim said I had one of the largest throat structures he had ever seen. Plus with a vocal tremor (which I also have) it lessens the possibility of high upper notes even more. Training was innately key in my case, but I think it would make training for singing 5X more of a hassle.
Luckily in speech this isn't a problem at all- I just can't screech up to the high notes like a gg can. That is okay with me, all I wanted from this surgery was to gain the ability to raise my pitch involuntarily during speech. Singing would have been a bonus, but it wasn't a dealbreaker.
I hope this info is helpful. I have absolutely gone into total nerd land when it comes to vocal analyzation- using Praat. Haven't ever tried recording myself singing, but then again I don't really sing that much to begin with ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
I really need to get a wiki going, these questions are just getting asked again and again :icon_ballbounce:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 12:11:34 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 12:11:34 PM
Indeed, I feel with so many experiences from Jenny and the others that now are doing this, it would be great to have some information collection in the Wiki of this site about this. It would be great info for all who will do this.
I checked in an analyzer software, though praat is failing if I try it so I used spectro-gram. If I screech now, I am in the 900 Hz range. Praat seems to loose it if I hit about 700 or so? It then chooses a different band or something. Odd.
So it really is a lot easier or even involuntary now to just raise pitch during speech? It is something I really have to get more relaxed about. My voice therapist this week let me speak the part of a rather annoying farmers wife in a role play. She played the guy part and I was the girl part and had to totally use high pitches in some sentences if possible. It was kind of fun, but she had to say "go higher, dont be so monotonous" a lot. For some reason, if I raise pitch generally (f0) it is a lot easier for me to also go even higher in intonations. If I have my regular lower average pitch to start with, there is a barrier to go very high in speech.
I kind of disappointed my speech doctor last week though. LOL - she kind of expected me to be post op by now and have a chance to look at the result. On the other hand she happily wrote me more therapy on insurance now.
Greetings.
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 11:40:18 AMBut you were not able to hit those high screeches before the surgery neither, or did you?
Luckily in speech this isn't a problem at all- I just can't screech up to the high notes like a gg can. That is okay with me, all I wanted from this surgery was to gain the ability to raise my pitch involuntarily during speech.
I checked in an analyzer software, though praat is failing if I try it so I used spectro-gram. If I screech now, I am in the 900 Hz range. Praat seems to loose it if I hit about 700 or so? It then chooses a different band or something. Odd.
So it really is a lot easier or even involuntary now to just raise pitch during speech? It is something I really have to get more relaxed about. My voice therapist this week let me speak the part of a rather annoying farmers wife in a role play. She played the guy part and I was the girl part and had to totally use high pitches in some sentences if possible. It was kind of fun, but she had to say "go higher, dont be so monotonous" a lot. For some reason, if I raise pitch generally (f0) it is a lot easier for me to also go even higher in intonations. If I have my regular lower average pitch to start with, there is a barrier to go very high in speech.
I kind of disappointed my speech doctor last week though. LOL - she kind of expected me to be post op by now and have a chance to look at the result. On the other hand she happily wrote me more therapy on insurance now.
Greetings.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 03:17:06 PM
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 03:17:06 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 12:11:34 PM
Indeed, I feel with so many experiences from Jenny and the others that now are doing this, it would be great to have some information collection in the Wiki of this site about this. It would be great info for all who will do this. But you were not able to hit those high screeches before the surgery neither, or did you?
I checked in an analyzer software, though praat is failing if I try it so I used spectro-gram. If I screech now, I am in the 900 Hz range. Praat seems to loose it if I hit about 700 or so? It then chooses a different band or something. Odd.
So it really is a lot easier or even involuntary now to just raise pitch during speech? It is something I really have to get more relaxed about. My voice therapist this week let me speak the part of a rather annoying farmers wife in a role play. She played the guy part and I was the girl part and had to totally use high pitches in some sentences if possible. It was kind of fun, but she had to say "go higher, dont be so monotonous" a lot. For some reason, if I raise pitch generally (f0) it is a lot easier for me to also go even higher in intonations. If I have my regular lower average pitch to start with, there is a barrier to go very high in speech.
I kind of disappointed my speech doctor last week though. LOL - she kind of expected me to be post op by now and have a chance to look at the result. On the other hand she happily wrote me more therapy on insurance now.
Greetings.
But why the problem with range can appear after the the successful surgery? If a surgeon makes your cords just like women's your tessiture would change. And that's all. But maybe there's cut something more, I dunno...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 03:56:38 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 03:56:38 PM
Sadly they cannot make the vocal chords "just like that of a woman". Basically they create a synchenie of the vocal chords - its a condition that can also occur naturally. So resonance and larynx size and position do not change. Plus the range to the upper end seems to not really depend that much on the vocal chord length. So you can post op not go as low as before but the upper end is more a thing of training. For example I can phonate at a pitch that amazes my voice therapist, she says she can not really go there easily herself. I dont totally believe her about the latter ;) - she wants me to feel special, but I think that there is little point in my ability to phonate in tat range anyways unless I want to sing in some upper soprano range. I am not sure however if that would rather go away and shrink down due to the changes in surgery (there is some damage after all) or if it will actually be easier to phonate there. Reading Jennys post, I get the impression it rather is the former than the latter...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 04:15:37 PM
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 04:15:37 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 03:56:38 PM
Sadly they cannot make the vocal chords "just like that of a woman". Basically they create a synchenie of the vocal chords - its a condition that can also occur naturally. So resonance and larynx size and position do not change. Plus the range to the upper end seems to not really depend that much on the vocal chord length. So you can post op not go as low as before but the upper end is more a thing of training. For example I can phonate at a pitch that amazes my voice therapist, she says she can not really go there easily herself. I dont totally believe her about the latter ;) - she wants me to feel special, but I think that there is little point in my ability to phonate in tat range anyways unless I want to sing in some upper soprano range. I am not sure however if that would rather go away and shrink down due to the changes in surgery (there is some damage after all) or if it will actually be easier to phonate there. Reading Jennys post, I get the impression it rather is the former than the latter...
Ok, I understand about the resonance. About upper range: well, I've read about older surgeries, that really cut the range a half shorter, just because they made muscles work only on the needed freq (in that case the upper range for sure stays the same). BTW, in "Yeson" kind of surgery, if I get it right, the cords are just made smaller. 99% you need training to get the maximum of the new cords. Maybe I just really need to talk to Dr. Kim. He know this for sure :D But the idea stays the same: very high female sopranos have very tiny cords, but that doesn't make their range smaller.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 05:43:58 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 05:43:58 PM
The length of the vocal chords mostly seems to influence the lower range. even a very high soprano singer will probably not talk in a squeakyvoice but in a normal female range . The ability to go extremely high is to a large degree something to do with practice and motor control. I guess if the surgery would be perfect, it would allow a higher pitch at the upper end and thus less decrease in range but it is not perfect and honestly, comparing Dr Kims result to the ones I know who did a similar procedure with ohter doctors, it is already amazing what he does. The others usually have hoarseness or breahiness in the voice that basically makes singing impossible, they loose a lot of volume and definitely loose some range at the upper end too. So to stay the same at the upper range limit is already an improvement.
I dont know about the volume and screaming, shouting etc - I heard that if you do that, you risk damage :( - that scared me last week when I read in an article that the sutures "frequently" rip. It was an article made to scare people away from voice surgeries though so I do not give a lot on it. I still wonder how often this can happen and if Dr Kim gives instructions to not shout or scream ?
I dont know about the volume and screaming, shouting etc - I heard that if you do that, you risk damage :( - that scared me last week when I read in an article that the sutures "frequently" rip. It was an article made to scare people away from voice surgeries though so I do not give a lot on it. I still wonder how often this can happen and if Dr Kim gives instructions to not shout or scream ?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Post by: AlexD on June 13, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 13, 2014, 05:43:58 PM
The length of the vocal chords mostly seems to influence the lower range. even a very high soprano singer will probably not talk in a squeakyvoice but in a normal female range . The ability to go extremely high is to a large degree something to do with practice and motor control. I guess if the surgery would be perfect, it would allow a higher pitch at the upper end and thus less decrease in range but it is not perfect and honestly, comparing Dr Kims result to the ones I know who did a similar procedure with ohter doctors, it is already amazing what he does. The others usually have hoarseness or breahiness in the voice that basically makes singing impossible, they loose a lot of volume and definitely loose some range at the upper end too. So to stay the same at the upper range limit is already an improvement.
I dont know about the volume and screaming, shouting etc - I heard that if you do that, you risk damage :( - that scared me last week when I read in an article that the sutures "frequently" rip. It was an article made to scare people away from voice surgeries though so I do not give a lot on it. I still wonder how often this can happen and if Dr Kim gives instructions to not shout or scream ?
It's sad that many clinics do this surgery so bad. I didn't know really. I live in Russia, and there is a respected voice center in Moscow. They also doing Yeson's method.
Hmm.. I remember there was a graphic table of Jenny's range results. BTW they were very good: About G5 at the upper end. I am still interested if the results are the same. There's was also another person in this thread who marked increase in her high notes. Actually, it gives hope.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 09:27:19 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 09:27:19 PM
Yes I think upper range has to do with luck, if you are able to use the vocal cords efficiently and succinctly. In my case, I had a lack of upper range post op and it increased a little bit post op. But, mind you, I had also become very active about training my voice- so that may have played a rather large part?
Either way, I think there is always the risk that you could lose a bit of range. It is something you will have to decide if the surgery is right for you. As Anja said and it's been said almost a hundred times, this surgery does not modify the underlying structures to the vocal chamber and can't be expected to be "perfect" in any way. It is just probably the best available option at this moment in time. Perhaps in 20 or 30 years they will be able to implant a full DNA compatible larynx complete with vocal cords, but until then it seems like this is what we have to work with. The key is remembering that it does take training and is not a cure-all. It CAN be a cure-all, though, with what it opens up as far as involuntary fundamental frequency. That was exactly what I knew I needed, and that's why I was so confident going into it (and probably why I had a great result, too). I didn't expect too much from it
Either way, I think there is always the risk that you could lose a bit of range. It is something you will have to decide if the surgery is right for you. As Anja said and it's been said almost a hundred times, this surgery does not modify the underlying structures to the vocal chamber and can't be expected to be "perfect" in any way. It is just probably the best available option at this moment in time. Perhaps in 20 or 30 years they will be able to implant a full DNA compatible larynx complete with vocal cords, but until then it seems like this is what we have to work with. The key is remembering that it does take training and is not a cure-all. It CAN be a cure-all, though, with what it opens up as far as involuntary fundamental frequency. That was exactly what I knew I needed, and that's why I was so confident going into it (and probably why I had a great result, too). I didn't expect too much from it
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on June 13, 2014, 11:26:04 PM
Post by: AshleyL on June 13, 2014, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 13, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
I really need to get a wiki going, these questions are just getting asked again and again :icon_ballbounce:
Hi, sorry for inundating you with questions that had already been answered. Reading back through the thread again I saw that you had actually posted several recordings of yourself back in the early stages of your recovery. Sadly, I found this thread too late, and most of the earlier vocaroo recordings have expired and are no longer available. It's too bad - I was really interested in hearing what your earlier results sounded like. I'll try to be more diligent about reading through the entire thread before posting more questions. A wiki sounds like it would be awesome though!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 14, 2014, 06:33:55 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 14, 2014, 06:33:55 AM
It's okay to ask, luckily there are others now who are able to help answer the questions :)
I just say we need to get a wiki going because it is getting repetitive, not because I'm getting annoyed or something. I would be a time saver for everyone as I think it's very hard for someone to go back through and read a 50 page thread! Yipes!
Luckily I saved all of the recordings locally before uploading to vocaroo! I will try to remember to upload those again for you from my own personal webspace that will never expire. Or I guess I could do soundcloud
I just say we need to get a wiki going because it is getting repetitive, not because I'm getting annoyed or something. I would be a time saver for everyone as I think it's very hard for someone to go back through and read a 50 page thread! Yipes!
Luckily I saved all of the recordings locally before uploading to vocaroo! I will try to remember to upload those again for you from my own personal webspace that will never expire. Or I guess I could do soundcloud
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 09:43:08 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 09:43:08 AM
Hi Jenny!
It's a been a long time since your surgery so you're probably very bored of answering questions on this subject, but...
I'd just like to say a massive massive massive thank you to you for creating this thread and introducing so many of us to Yeson!!!
I had always ruled out VFS as the procedures sounded horrific and the results I had heard were even worse... For the three years of my transition I had been concentrating on other surgeries (FFS/GRS etc...) but no matter how well I passed visually it was always ruined when I spoke. This has had the effect of making me more and more introverted and silent in public. And when I do speak it's very quietly :( Like you, no matter how good my practised voice got in private, I've always found it impossible to do in front of people... especially friends! It's so ridiculous to get stage fright about my voice when friends have seen me through so many other changes and have always been supportive! Being introduced as Olivia on work conference calls but not having a female voice has always been a massive stress to me. I have tried using a female voice on calls but as soon as I have to concentrate on the subject of the call my voice ends up slipping back down...
Early this year, while I was in Marbella having some FFS revisions, my surgeon mentioned that he met Dr Kim at WPATH in Thailand and that it was certainly worth looking into VFS with Yeson. I googled Yeson when I got home and I saw your 2 month video and started reading this post. I was completely blown away that a procedure like this existed that gave such great results and had so few if any risks!
I emailed Yeson and spoke with Jessie (who is SO lovely!) and booked surgery shortly after :) It had to wait a little while as I was a few weeks away from GRS... and then I had to wait 2 months after that before I was allowed further surgery... Boo! Strangely a friend of mine (who I hadn't spoken to about it at the time) had already booked her surgery with Yeson for when I was having my GRS and had booked her GRS for when I had my surgery with Yeson. It's been lovely that we have been able to chat to each other while we were both going through surgeries that the other had just been through!
Anyway... I returned from an AMAZING trip to Seoul late last week :) Seoul was one of the nicest places that I have been to, so friendly and the shopping (especially cosmetics) was to die for!
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714100916.jpeg)
The pre-op went well, the tests they run are extensive to say the least (It's so weird to see videos of your vocal chords!) Some of the tests are a little uncomfortable to do, especially the one that you have to make noises when you have a camera down your throat... it's almost impossible not to gag! Dr Kim went through all of the test results and seemed happy that I'd have a good result. My starting pitches were 143hz when speaking normally and 165hz when making an effort (although I think I was a bit shy and could have done much better...)
The surgery itself was pretty painless in general... Waking up from the anaesthetic was pretty unpleasant as I couldn't breathe properly, had a MASSIVE tongue, bad headache and very sore throat. This only lasted a few hours though... as soon as I was allowed some water and food I started feeling much better :)
I was SO nervous at the post op exam... I was really worried that somehow I would have damaged the op site (Apparently I made a noise while I was asleep one night that sounded like a dolphin!) and that it would all be ruined. Luckily all was good and Dr Kim said I was healing perfectly! The little noise he makes you make while checking your new folds does indeed sound like a high pitched zombie! I had to have the Botox injection as well as I had some tremor... I was sure this was going to hurt like crazy, but I barely felt it. After that I went through the voice exercises with Jessie and another nurse... this was fairly hysterical as I really struggled to do the lip trills (I think it's because of my FFS lip lift) and could only make a farting noise for ages. We were all laughing (me silently of course) hopefully I'll be able to do them when it comes to it after two months!
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714101927.jpeg)
The staff at Yeson were so lovely, Jessie was a complete sweetie (I'll certainly be keeping in touch and visiting her sometime) Dr Kim was such a lovely, understanding and patient surgeon who went all out to explain everything in great detail. I also have to say my nurse was amazing as well, such a friendly, smiley, bubbly girl (she reminded me a bit of nurse Joy from Pokemon...)
So I'm now 12 days post op... I noticed that you posted a sample of yourself here after 11 days, but it's expired :( Is there any way you could repost the couple of very early samples you posted? Or if not post on here, message them to me? I risked couple of words today, and sampled as you did "hello I'm Olivia" into Praat. I was a little surprised to see an average pitch of 231hz... a gain of 88hz in 11 days... erm what?! I'm not sure if I was straining to make that sound of not... it was pretty hard to get anything out tbh... And I sounded a bit like a cartoon character that's been punched in the neck... is this normal?! I've had no pain post-op really and hardly any of the mucus that other people have complained about. I've been drinking a ton of aloe gel which might have helped.
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714101303.jpeg)
All in all I couldn't recommend Yeson more highly. If anyone is considering any vocal fem surgery that is not Yeson, please stop!
I'll stop waffling now...
Thank you so so so much again for making such a huge difference to my life Jenny! Had you not posted about Yeson and made those YouTube videos, I would not have had this surgery, hopefully be well on the way to passing completely, getting all of my confidence back and being a very happy bunny!
Loves
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714100510.jpeg)
Liv xxx
It's a been a long time since your surgery so you're probably very bored of answering questions on this subject, but...
I'd just like to say a massive massive massive thank you to you for creating this thread and introducing so many of us to Yeson!!!
I had always ruled out VFS as the procedures sounded horrific and the results I had heard were even worse... For the three years of my transition I had been concentrating on other surgeries (FFS/GRS etc...) but no matter how well I passed visually it was always ruined when I spoke. This has had the effect of making me more and more introverted and silent in public. And when I do speak it's very quietly :( Like you, no matter how good my practised voice got in private, I've always found it impossible to do in front of people... especially friends! It's so ridiculous to get stage fright about my voice when friends have seen me through so many other changes and have always been supportive! Being introduced as Olivia on work conference calls but not having a female voice has always been a massive stress to me. I have tried using a female voice on calls but as soon as I have to concentrate on the subject of the call my voice ends up slipping back down...
Early this year, while I was in Marbella having some FFS revisions, my surgeon mentioned that he met Dr Kim at WPATH in Thailand and that it was certainly worth looking into VFS with Yeson. I googled Yeson when I got home and I saw your 2 month video and started reading this post. I was completely blown away that a procedure like this existed that gave such great results and had so few if any risks!
I emailed Yeson and spoke with Jessie (who is SO lovely!) and booked surgery shortly after :) It had to wait a little while as I was a few weeks away from GRS... and then I had to wait 2 months after that before I was allowed further surgery... Boo! Strangely a friend of mine (who I hadn't spoken to about it at the time) had already booked her surgery with Yeson for when I was having my GRS and had booked her GRS for when I had my surgery with Yeson. It's been lovely that we have been able to chat to each other while we were both going through surgeries that the other had just been through!
Anyway... I returned from an AMAZING trip to Seoul late last week :) Seoul was one of the nicest places that I have been to, so friendly and the shopping (especially cosmetics) was to die for!
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714100916.jpeg)
The pre-op went well, the tests they run are extensive to say the least (It's so weird to see videos of your vocal chords!) Some of the tests are a little uncomfortable to do, especially the one that you have to make noises when you have a camera down your throat... it's almost impossible not to gag! Dr Kim went through all of the test results and seemed happy that I'd have a good result. My starting pitches were 143hz when speaking normally and 165hz when making an effort (although I think I was a bit shy and could have done much better...)
The surgery itself was pretty painless in general... Waking up from the anaesthetic was pretty unpleasant as I couldn't breathe properly, had a MASSIVE tongue, bad headache and very sore throat. This only lasted a few hours though... as soon as I was allowed some water and food I started feeling much better :)
I was SO nervous at the post op exam... I was really worried that somehow I would have damaged the op site (Apparently I made a noise while I was asleep one night that sounded like a dolphin!) and that it would all be ruined. Luckily all was good and Dr Kim said I was healing perfectly! The little noise he makes you make while checking your new folds does indeed sound like a high pitched zombie! I had to have the Botox injection as well as I had some tremor... I was sure this was going to hurt like crazy, but I barely felt it. After that I went through the voice exercises with Jessie and another nurse... this was fairly hysterical as I really struggled to do the lip trills (I think it's because of my FFS lip lift) and could only make a farting noise for ages. We were all laughing (me silently of course) hopefully I'll be able to do them when it comes to it after two months!
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714101927.jpeg)
The staff at Yeson were so lovely, Jessie was a complete sweetie (I'll certainly be keeping in touch and visiting her sometime) Dr Kim was such a lovely, understanding and patient surgeon who went all out to explain everything in great detail. I also have to say my nurse was amazing as well, such a friendly, smiley, bubbly girl (she reminded me a bit of nurse Joy from Pokemon...)
So I'm now 12 days post op... I noticed that you posted a sample of yourself here after 11 days, but it's expired :( Is there any way you could repost the couple of very early samples you posted? Or if not post on here, message them to me? I risked couple of words today, and sampled as you did "hello I'm Olivia" into Praat. I was a little surprised to see an average pitch of 231hz... a gain of 88hz in 11 days... erm what?! I'm not sure if I was straining to make that sound of not... it was pretty hard to get anything out tbh... And I sounded a bit like a cartoon character that's been punched in the neck... is this normal?! I've had no pain post-op really and hardly any of the mucus that other people have complained about. I've been drinking a ton of aloe gel which might have helped.
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714101303.jpeg)
All in all I couldn't recommend Yeson more highly. If anyone is considering any vocal fem surgery that is not Yeson, please stop!
I'll stop waffling now...
Thank you so so so much again for making such a huge difference to my life Jenny! Had you not posted about Yeson and made those YouTube videos, I would not have had this surgery, hopefully be well on the way to passing completely, getting all of my confidence back and being a very happy bunny!
Loves
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714100510.jpeg)
Liv xxx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nero on July 06, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Post by: Nero on July 06, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 09:43:08 AM
(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/34951-060714101927.jpeg)
Wow, what is that? Your throat?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 10:42:45 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 10:42:45 AM
Quote from: FA on July 06, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Wow, what is that? Your throat?
Haha, it sure is! What else could it possibly be?! ;)
Check out the little blue stitches where my vocal folds were made shorter... so clever!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nero on July 06, 2014, 10:49:37 AM
Post by: Nero on July 06, 2014, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 10:42:45 AMQuote from: FA on July 06, 2014, 10:39:31 AM
Wow, what is that? Your throat?
Haha, it sure is! What else could it possibly be?! ;)
Check out the little blue stitches where my vocal folds were made shorter... so clever!
Can't tell the stitches. What side are they on? It looks like they made the opening bigger. Or is that just you contracting it in the first one? What did they actually do? Remove something?
Sorry lol. Never really gave much thought to vocal surgery as I'm ftm, but that picture is just fascinating!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 11:09:02 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 06, 2014, 11:09:02 AM
Quote from: FA on July 06, 2014, 10:49:37 AM
Haha, it sure is! What else could it possibly be?! ;)
Check out the little blue stitches where my vocal folds were made shorter... so clever!
Can't tell the stitches. What side are they on? It looks like they made the opening bigger. Or is that just you contracting it in the first one? What did they actually do? Remove something?
Sorry lol. Never really gave much thought to vocal surgery as I'm ftm, but that picture is just fascinating!
I find these things fascinating as well, I'm not squeamish at all:)
So basically that first picture (top left) is me making a high pitch sound (the noise sounded not unlike a manatee or other sea mammal) if you look at the at the rest of the pics, my vocal folds used to go down all the way to the bottom of that outside V, but now have two very small stitches in to make them shorter. The shorter and thiner the folds are, the higher the vocal pitch you produce :)
Most other vocal surgeries techniques that are done involve fairly horrific remodelling of voice box... Which carry a long list of potential side effects, and is why I had never considered it until I read this post. This is a revolutionary new endoscopic technique that carries little if no risk! It takes away the hardest bit of feminising your voice which is maintaining a higher pitch. The other element which is the resonance is a fairly easy thing to learn. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on July 10, 2014, 05:53:33 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on July 10, 2014, 05:53:33 PM
Hi everyone. I have a question about Yeson. I've been doing my research with the few people I can find who have been to Yeson and are older, and generally their results are nowhere near as good as Jenny's and other younger women. I'm older but perhaps unusual inasmuch as I have trained my female head voice so that now (after 30 years!) I use it unconsciously. However, I'm still on edge when I sneeze or shout and as for screaming, forget it! I know those male sounds would re-emerge. I'd love to go to Yeson just so that I can relax about all this and some people have said that these 'vegetative' sounds are feminised by the Yeson technique.
I'm wondering if the older Yeson patients I've heard whose results aren't so wonderful are late transitioners who haven't trained their voices prior to surgery. If that's the case, I wonder if I might get a good result anyhow, despite being older?
Does anyone have any insight into this?
Thanks,
Sarah
I'm wondering if the older Yeson patients I've heard whose results aren't so wonderful are late transitioners who haven't trained their voices prior to surgery. If that's the case, I wonder if I might get a good result anyhow, despite being older?
Does anyone have any insight into this?
Thanks,
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on July 10, 2014, 06:38:46 PM
Post by: Nicolette on July 10, 2014, 06:38:46 PM
I only have instinct based on observations from this forum, plus common sense :). It seems you have made some good observations yourself regarding results. If your voice already is reasonable then Yeson will not make it worse and there is a good chance that it will be improved in nice, subtle ways. Transitioning later may make it more difficult for voice therapy to have dramatic effects, whilst testosterone will have a propensity to thicken vocal cords yet further. It sounds like these are not your issues.
I understand your concern about re-emerging male sounds. I used to grunt very occasionally whilst I slept! I only knew when my not too pleased boyfriend alerted me to it. The fact that the lower register is still there and can be potentially used can be disconcerting.
I understand your concern about re-emerging male sounds. I used to grunt very occasionally whilst I slept! I only knew when my not too pleased boyfriend alerted me to it. The fact that the lower register is still there and can be potentially used can be disconcerting.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 06:52:09 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 06:52:09 AM
Just how old are you talking about? 50ish? I dont know why the results of the older ones should be different - I have not yet seen many videos or heard recordings of women here who are older than maybe late 30ies? Maybe 1 or 2? So I am not sure who you are referring to. I think if you are having a good voice, it should work out fine, although I guess if you have a good trained voice the changes if doing a recording are not as dramatic as you basically get the same voice in general but with some small changes and the elimination of the lower registers that could accidentially be accessed.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: GinaS on July 11, 2014, 07:43:24 AM
Post by: GinaS on July 11, 2014, 07:43:24 AM
i was in Seoul 16 aprill this year :)
Yeson Voice senter was so kind and helpfull :)
now am 2,5 month post op, but the Botox its still in place and have alot of voice pracsis on my new voice.
the 1 mounth silence was a hell periode :P i just love to speak and it dident make it esier when not allowed to eat strong food in Korea :)
all in all i miss Seoul alot :D guess going with a friend thats also going to undergo the surgery there :)
i watched your movie Jenny, then i just new where i wanted to go :)
thx and hope you doing well :D
Yeson Voice senter was so kind and helpfull :)
now am 2,5 month post op, but the Botox its still in place and have alot of voice pracsis on my new voice.
the 1 mounth silence was a hell periode :P i just love to speak and it dident make it esier when not allowed to eat strong food in Korea :)
all in all i miss Seoul alot :D guess going with a friend thats also going to undergo the surgery there :)
i watched your movie Jenny, then i just new where i wanted to go :)
thx and hope you doing well :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 08:18:10 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 08:18:10 AM
Congrats then GinaS - I hope you are happy with the results? Have you made some recordings or videos like Jenny did? I think it is so awesome that she and some others did all these recordings to take away the fear of this procedure from people watching them :) - If you have done so, maybe you want to upload them - you can do it in a way that doe snot compromise your "stealthyness" ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 11, 2014, 08:23:57 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 11, 2014, 08:23:57 AM
Quote from: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 08:18:10 AM
Congrats then GinaS - I hope you are happy with the results? Have you made some recordings or videos like Jenny did? I think it is so awesome that she and some others did all these recordings to take away the fear of this procedure from people watching them :) - If you have done so, maybe you want to upload them - you can do it in a way that doe snot compromise your "stealthyness" ;)
I was certainly planning to make a video after I've healed a bit more, I'm only a few weeks post op! Unfortunately I didn't do a before one, but maybe Yeson will let me have the copy of the one they made :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 09:19:45 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 09:19:45 AM
I imagine they will - or if you do their 2 month interview you can have it both on yesons channel on youtube
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 11, 2014, 11:09:45 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 11, 2014, 11:09:45 PM
Quote from: Nicolette on July 10, 2014, 06:38:46 PM
I understand your concern about re-emerging male sounds. I used to grunt very occasionally whilst I slept! I only knew when my not too pleased boyfriend alerted me to it. The fact that the lower register is still there and can be potentially used can be disconcerting.
Oh thank god I'm not the only one who's done this! The only difference is that in my case I'm a pretty light sleeper and I usually shock myself awake at the deep grunt/moan that comes out of my throat. This and other involuntary/uncontrollable sounds are the main reason I'm seriously considering this surgery. Well, that and not having to be in constant control of this aspect of my life every second of every day anymore. I'm a bad enough control freak as it is :P
Ashley
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on July 12, 2014, 07:58:24 AM
Post by: Nicolette on July 12, 2014, 07:58:24 AM
Hi Ashley, I think it happened to me also when I was in more of a light sleep than deep one. I'd be resting against my pillow just dozing off when I'd awake myself. My boyfriend would then explain that he heard me make some deep grunting noise. And I'd feel totally ashamed and embarrassed! I find myself, like you, in need of complete control. I haven't dared drink too much when around colleagues and need to be in full control of all my faculties. I suppose some of this anxiety has eased somewhat since becoming post-op. But I'm now focussing more on my voice. And I'm becoming more dissatisfied as I hear more and more Yeson success stories. I'm getting really jealous! So have you booked Yeson, yet?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on July 12, 2014, 08:20:11 AM
Post by: Teslagirl on July 12, 2014, 08:20:11 AM
Quote from: anjaq on July 11, 2014, 06:52:09 AM
Just how old are you talking about? 50ish? I dont know why the results of the older ones should be different - I have not yet seen many videos or heard recordings of women here who are older than maybe late 30ies? Maybe 1 or 2? So I am not sure who you are referring to.
You shouldn't assume you've heard every older woman who has been to Yeson. At my request Jessie has put me in touch with older women who have had the surgery but don't want to be out on public media or make Youtube videos. As I've said, I've done my research and the result with older women does not seem to be as good as with younger women, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on July 12, 2014, 08:23:24 AM
Post by: Nicolette on July 12, 2014, 08:23:24 AM
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 12, 2014, 08:20:11 AM
You shouldn't assume you've heard every older woman who has been to Yeson. At my request Jessie has put me in touch with older women who have had the surgery but don't want to be out on public media or make Youtube videos. As I've said, I've done my research and the result with older women does not seem to be as good as with younger women, for whatever reason.
To clarify, these are older women who transitioned relatively recently?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 12, 2014, 05:15:48 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 12, 2014, 05:15:48 PM
Also what age are we talking about there? I am not 20 anymore ;) - what are the downsides that those older women have experienced? More hoarseness or voice damage?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 14, 2014, 04:15:05 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 14, 2014, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: Nicolette on July 12, 2014, 07:58:24 AM
Hi Ashley, I think it happened to me also when I was in more of a light sleep than deep one. I'd be resting against my pillow just dozing off when I'd awake myself. My boyfriend would then explain that he heard me make some deep grunting noise. And I'd feel totally ashamed and embarrassed! I find myself, like you, in need of complete control. I haven't dared drink too much when around colleagues and need to be in full control of all my faculties. I suppose some of this anxiety has eased somewhat since becoming post-op. But I'm now focussing more on my voice. And I'm becoming more dissatisfied as I hear more and more Yeson success stories. I'm getting really jealous! So have you booked Yeson, yet?
I actually just booked my appointment for October 16th! Looking at booking flights now, actually. I just googled the route from the airport to Sinsa-dong.... 2 hours! I'll have to figure out how to get into the area because most of the flights I'm looking at are outside the hours for the shuttle service Yeson provides.
In a way the compulsive need for control has kept me from developing some more mainstream bad habits.... like alcoholism, smoking and pot. Too much risk of doing something I would later regret! I'm more leaning towards the line of thinking where I would be satisified with the procedure even if I came out not sounding much different from what my trained voice is like now, but without the lower range underneath it, just to avoid those situations. I'm so tired of being afraid to laugh out loud when I'm having too much fun because I'm afraid of what sound will come out of my mouth.
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 12, 2014, 08:20:11 AM
You shouldn't assume you've heard every older woman who has been to Yeson. At my request Jessie has put me in touch with older women who have had the surgery but don't want to be out on public media or make Youtube videos. As I've said, I've done my research and the result with older women does not seem to be as good as with younger women, for whatever reason.
I'm interested in this too. I wasn't sure if Jessie would put me in touch with some of those people. I am curious as to what age group and their circumstances as well. I don't think I quite qualify as 'older' yet though, I transitioned in my mid-20s and am only 35 now. I don't smoke, and only drink occasionally, so I think I should be alright.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 15, 2014, 03:10:09 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 15, 2014, 03:10:09 AM
QuoteI transitioned in my mid-20s and am only 35 nowI am similar - Early 20ies and 39 now. I don't think I am too old and am still not sure how this should matter. Maybe if the brain has to retrain itself to the new voice and that is harder the older one gets?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 15, 2014, 06:03:33 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 15, 2014, 06:03:33 AM
Hi ladies!
I just thought I'd put this out there... Some of the preferred hotels that are on the Yeson site are fairly horrific and I've heard really bad things from a few girls.
We stayed here
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3569&language=en_US (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3569&language=en_US)
It was totally amazing! Aside from having a metro station in the basement, it's also part of a really great mall that has EVERYTHING that you could possibly want in! It's got some really great local, Japanese, American (TGI's) restaurants, a couple of Starbucks, a supermarket, hotel deli etc... and some great cosmetic shops (Missha, Etude) In the area just outside, there is a lovely park where couples and friends gather every evening to be romantic or chill out. It's really lovely :)
The staff were some of the friendliest people that I've ever met, so polite and accommodating! If you ask them to order you a taxi, not only do they do that but they spend a serious amount of time talking to the driver when he arrives to explain exactly where you want to go. We taxied between the hotel and Yeson (taxi's are seriously cheep), but we could have easily caught the metro... Speaking of which, there is nothing easier than the Korean Metro, it's total genius
Here's a pretty cool, if cheesy promo video
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/videos/index.html?propertyID=3569 (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/videos/index.html?propertyID=3569)
Hope this helps :)
Livvy x
I just thought I'd put this out there... Some of the preferred hotels that are on the Yeson site are fairly horrific and I've heard really bad things from a few girls.
We stayed here
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3569&language=en_US (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3569&language=en_US)
It was totally amazing! Aside from having a metro station in the basement, it's also part of a really great mall that has EVERYTHING that you could possibly want in! It's got some really great local, Japanese, American (TGI's) restaurants, a couple of Starbucks, a supermarket, hotel deli etc... and some great cosmetic shops (Missha, Etude) In the area just outside, there is a lovely park where couples and friends gather every evening to be romantic or chill out. It's really lovely :)
The staff were some of the friendliest people that I've ever met, so polite and accommodating! If you ask them to order you a taxi, not only do they do that but they spend a serious amount of time talking to the driver when he arrives to explain exactly where you want to go. We taxied between the hotel and Yeson (taxi's are seriously cheep), but we could have easily caught the metro... Speaking of which, there is nothing easier than the Korean Metro, it's total genius
Here's a pretty cool, if cheesy promo video
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/videos/index.html?propertyID=3569 (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/videos/index.html?propertyID=3569)
Hope this helps :)
Livvy x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessray on July 15, 2014, 09:03:49 AM
Post by: Jessray on July 15, 2014, 09:03:49 AM
How much did you pay for your room there? That looks really nice but also really expensive ($200ish USD a night if I'm reading the website right?) I'm currently shopping around for a place to stay while there and that sounds great otherwise.
Thanks :)
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 15, 2014, 09:56:53 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 15, 2014, 09:56:53 AM
Quote from: Jessray on July 15, 2014, 09:03:49 AM
How much did you pay for your room there? That looks really nice but also really expensive ($200ish USD a night if I'm reading the website right?) I'm currently shopping around for a place to stay while there and that sounds great otherwise.
Thanks :)
Hmm, I'll find out for you... We booked it as a package on Expedia with the flights... I've just done a quick search on Expedia and for two people flying from the UK and staying 10 nights in August at the Sheraton it's pretty much spot on £1500... £750 each and 10 days at such a lovely hotel is a complete bargain! You'll get it a lot cheaper if you book it with the flights on Expedia than if you go direct to the hotel for room bookings :)
You'll love it there though! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 15, 2014, 11:49:24 AM
Post by: AshleyL on July 15, 2014, 11:49:24 AM
I was planning on staying at the Princess hotel because its within walking distance to the voice center. I don't want to worry about trying to communicate with a taxi driver or something while being unable to talk.
Out of curiosity, what exactly was said about the hotels that was so bad?
Out of curiosity, what exactly was said about the hotels that was so bad?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on July 15, 2014, 12:36:45 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on July 15, 2014, 12:36:45 PM
I stayed at the gangnam artnouveau city II (still here for a few more hours :p), close to Gangnam Station, and from there it was just one change from Line 2 to Line 3 Bundang line to get to Apgujeong Rodeo station, which is a measly 3 - 5 minute walk to Yeson.
I really recommend using the Metro. Hilariously cheap and it gets you everywhere. 1050won per trip if you have the T-card, which you can purchase at any station :) Top it up with a wanted amount and it deducts you 1050 for every trip. Single ride ticket is 1650won. 500won deposit for the single ride ticket it self. Refund machines places besides every ticked machine on each station :) Oh, there is no fee to change to another line at a connecting station :D
I really recommend using the Metro. Hilariously cheap and it gets you everywhere. 1050won per trip if you have the T-card, which you can purchase at any station :) Top it up with a wanted amount and it deducts you 1050 for every trip. Single ride ticket is 1650won. 500won deposit for the single ride ticket it self. Refund machines places besides every ticked machine on each station :) Oh, there is no fee to change to another line at a connecting station :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessray on July 15, 2014, 12:49:09 PM
Post by: Jessray on July 15, 2014, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 15, 2014, 09:56:53 AM
Hmm, I'll find out for you... We booked it as a package on Expedia with the flights... I've just done a quick search on Expedia and for two people flying from the UK and staying 10 nights in August at the Sheraton it's pretty much spot on £1500... £750 each and 10 days at such a lovely hotel is a complete bargain! You'll get it a lot cheaper if you book it with the flights on Expedia than if you go direct to the hotel for room bookings :)
You'll love it there though! :)
I unfortunately don't have that option because I've already booked my flight separately some time ago, hehe. Oh well. Hmm.. 1500 GBP for 10 days comes out to 270 CAD a night, and the website quotes me 240-372 a night, so it's in the same ballpark, but eek at the prices. The place looks great though mmm. I'll need to take a peek at the others too, thanks for the recommendations, and have a safe trip back, MeganChristine. :)
I am definitely looking forward to abusing the train system, I don't like being cooped up so hopefully I can get some sightseeing done in the week or so where I'll be able to move around some!
Sorry for somewhat hijacking the thread!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on July 15, 2014, 01:00:34 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on July 15, 2014, 01:00:34 PM
Thank you, Jessray :D
The pinnacle of my trip was obviously the DMZ and Panmunjom (JSA) Tour. Standing there in the conference room on the North Korean border was - awesome. If you want to do that tour, I advice you to make a booking several days in advance. The UN need a photocopy of your passport to get you into the Joint Security Area (make sure you book DMZ & Panmunjom, not just DMZ).
I was also considering taking a real spa treatment, but my camera wanted otherwise :p Spent most of my time walking around the city :)
The pinnacle of my trip was obviously the DMZ and Panmunjom (JSA) Tour. Standing there in the conference room on the North Korean border was - awesome. If you want to do that tour, I advice you to make a booking several days in advance. The UN need a photocopy of your passport to get you into the Joint Security Area (make sure you book DMZ & Panmunjom, not just DMZ).
I was also considering taking a real spa treatment, but my camera wanted otherwise :p Spent most of my time walking around the city :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 15, 2014, 05:16:57 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 15, 2014, 05:16:57 PM
I'm hoping to join a group that's going out to Jeju Island actually. My parents and some of their friends are doing a trip down to Japan and South Korea and hopefully I've timed my VFS right so that I can hop on over and join their tour group for a few days.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 16, 2014, 07:34:02 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 16, 2014, 07:34:02 AM
Quote from: AshleyL on July 15, 2014, 11:49:24 AM
I was planning on staying at the Princess hotel because its within walking distance to the voice center. I don't want to worry about trying to communicate with a taxi driver or something while being unable to talk.
Out of curiosity, what exactly was said about the hotels that was so bad?
Hi Ashley,
That was where my friend stayed... she said it was the WORST place she had ever ever stayed in her life! For a start her room had no windows and it stunk of old smoke... it went down hill from there
The Metro is the easiest thing in the world to use, far quicker than the Taxi's If you do use Taxi's just show them the address, it's very easy for them to find.
I haven't been to the Princess... I'm just going on what I was told.
Livvy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 16, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Post by: AshleyL on July 16, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 16, 2014, 07:34:02 AM
Hi Ashley,
That was where my friend stayed... she said it was the WORST place she had ever ever stayed in her life! For a start her room had no windows and it stunk of old smoke... it went down hill from there
The Metro is the easiest thing in the world to use, far quicker than the Taxi's If you do use Taxi's just show them the address, it's very easy for them to find.
I haven't been to the Princess... I'm just going on what I was told.
Livvy
Yeek! I hope it's not that bad when I go! Even so it will only be for a few nights then I'm checking out to go stay with my family so hopefully it will be bearable. If I may ask how did you get from the airport to your hotel? Does the subway go there or is it easier to take a taxi considering you have your luggage with you?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 16, 2014, 10:35:58 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 16, 2014, 10:35:58 AM
Quote from: AshleyL on July 16, 2014, 09:32:00 AM
Yeek! I hope it's not that bad when I go! Even so it will only be for a few nights then I'm checking out to go stay with my family so hopefully it will be bearable. If I may ask how did you get from the airport to your hotel? Does the subway go there or is it easier to take a taxi considering you have your luggage with you?
Oh I'm sure it will be fine, the important thing is the surgery, there's so much to see in Seoul anyway... you won't be at the hotel for long! :)
We just hopped in a taxi, they're cheap... I think it was £14 for us from the airport and it took 45 minutes. I really didn't want to muck about with the Metro or buses after a 14 hour flight...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessray on July 16, 2014, 01:11:43 PM
Post by: Jessray on July 16, 2014, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: MeganChristine on July 15, 2014, 01:00:34 PM
Thank you, Jessray :D
The pinnacle of my trip was obviously the DMZ and Panmunjom (JSA) Tour. Standing there in the conference room on the North Korean border was - awesome. If you want to do that tour, I advice you to make a booking several days in advance. The UN need a photocopy of your passport to get you into the Joint Security Area (make sure you book DMZ & Panmunjom, not just DMZ).
I was also considering taking a real spa treatment, but my camera wanted otherwise :p Spent most of my time walking around the city :)
Is that tour part of whatever tour Yeson offers, or is it from somewhere else entirely? Details! :)
Also it looks like I'm currently booked to stay in the same hotel you were at, barring finding a better hotel for a comparable price, so thanks for the recommendation!
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on July 16, 2014, 03:10:45 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on July 16, 2014, 03:10:45 PM
Not a part of the tour yeson offers, the DMZ Panmunjom your takes a whole day :) booked it through viator.com :) found the link through tripadvisor :)
I'll post more details as soon as I'm within my four walls at home :D in about an hour ;)
I'll post more details as soon as I'm within my four walls at home :D in about an hour ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on July 16, 2014, 04:07:56 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on July 16, 2014, 04:07:56 PM
Here is the Tour page :D (http://www.viator.com/tours/Seoul/Korean-Demilitarized-Zone-DMZ-and-JSA-Panmunjom-Tour-from-Seoul/d973-5754ICNDMZJSA)
it's $134 for the tour, but that includes hotel pickup (not drop off), and lunch between the DMZ tour and the JSA-tour. :D
it's $134 for the tour, but that includes hotel pickup (not drop off), and lunch between the DMZ tour and the JSA-tour. :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessray on July 16, 2014, 06:06:03 PM
Post by: Jessray on July 16, 2014, 06:06:03 PM
Hmm thanks!
Decisions decisions.. suddenly I wish I'd booked a few extra days stay in Seoul. :P
Decisions decisions.. suddenly I wish I'd booked a few extra days stay in Seoul. :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Aphaea on July 16, 2014, 10:54:49 PM
Post by: Aphaea on July 16, 2014, 10:54:49 PM
Can confirm Princess Hotel as being a dump as I stayed there for two weeks. Another hotel I saw was Artnouveau City and learned that it would have only cost 10$ more. Artnouveau City is a step above most hotels/motels you will use in America.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 18, 2014, 06:54:58 PM
Post by: barbie on July 18, 2014, 06:54:58 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 15, 2014, 09:56:53 AM
Hmm, I'll find out for you... We booked it as a package on Expedia with the flights... I've just done a quick search on Expedia and for two people flying from the UK and staying 10 nights in August at the Sheraton it's pretty much spot on £1500... £750 each and 10 days at such a lovely hotel is a complete bargain! You'll get it a lot cheaper if you book it with the flights on Expedia than if you go direct to the hotel for room bookings :)
You'll love it there though! :)
Livvykins,
You seems to have been lucky to find the hotel. The area (guro-gu) was once occupied by apparel and semi-conductor plants, but recently changed to a digital-industry center. It is not an area for tourism or shopping.
I guess the price is relatively inexpensive, because it is not located in the downtown areas of Seoul. Artnouveau City is located in Gangnam, the most expensive area in Korea. In Gangnam, you need to pay at least USD 100 per night, and even USD 300 for hotels like Sheraton. The Princess hotel is also located in the downtown of Seoul, although it is relatively less expensive than Gangnam.
If you prefer accessibility, the hotels in downtown area are fine, although they are not so much comfortable. I think the Sheraton is a nice option if anybody is willing to study Seoul metro network, and can enjoy a half or one hour transportation by the train or taxi.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 18, 2014, 06:59:31 PM
Post by: barbie on July 18, 2014, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: AshleyL on July 15, 2014, 05:16:57 PM
I'm hoping to join a group that's going out to Jeju Island actually. My parents and some of their friends are doing a trip down to Japan and South Korea and hopefully I've timed my VFS right so that I can hop on over and join their tour group for a few days.
Oh. If you are ever going to Jeju island, please send PM to me. In summer, I receive guests from the main land at least once per week.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: EchelonHunt on July 19, 2014, 10:49:07 AM
Post by: EchelonHunt on July 19, 2014, 10:49:07 AM
Thank you so much, Jenny and Abby for documenting your experiences. It has given me confidence in working diligently on training my voice and if I can, hopefully get VFS with Yeson in the future.
Thank you!
Thank you!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 19, 2014, 10:54:49 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 19, 2014, 10:54:49 AM
Quote from: barbie on July 18, 2014, 06:54:58 PM
Livvykins,
You seems to have been lucky to find the hotel. The area (guro-gu) was once occupied by apparel and semi-conductor plants, but recently changed to a digital-industry center. It is not an area for tourism or shopping.
I guess the price is relatively inexpensive, because it is not located in the downtown areas of Seoul. Artnouveau City is located in Gangnam, the most expensive area in Korea. In Gangnam, you need to pay at least USD 100 per night, and even USD 300 for hotels like Sheraton. The Princess hotel is also located in the downtown of Seoul, although it is relatively less expensive than Gangnam.
If you prefer accessibility, the hotels in downtown area are fine, although they are not so much comfortable. I think the Sheraton is a nice option if anybody is willing to study Seoul metro network, and can enjoy a half or one hour transportation by the train or taxi.
barbie~~
Hey Barbie!
I think the thing we liked most (aside from the hotel and rooms being lovely) was having the convenience of a large mall and subway station attached to the hotel... It was actually the best mall we went in (and we visited a LOT!) it was large and had pretty much everything you could ask for :) We didn't really spend much time in the immediately surrounding area, although every evening we went to the park and chilled out with all of the other couples. The metro station bellow is on lines 1 and 2, it was 15 mins to Seoul station (where there was a massive Lotte outlet/supermarket and only a short walk to the HUGE market at Namdaemun) and then only 2 stops east on line 4 to Myongdong (which we LOVED!)
We did consider hotel Shin Shin, which looked lovely and was bang in the centre of Myongdong, but went to Sheraton based on it's No1 Trip Advisor rating... we were honestly SO pleased with our choice, it was a bargain as well :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 19, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 19, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
Quote from: barbie on July 18, 2014, 06:59:31 PM
Oh. If you are ever going to Jeju island, please send PM to me. In summer, I receive guests from the main land at least once per week.
barbie~~
Hey Barbie! I think we'll be flying to jeju island on the 20th, but the tour includes hotels/lodging. Not sure how much free time we'll have, but I imagine we'd be free in the evenings. I'll definitely try to send you a PM when I'm there.
I was wondering, has anyone tried using a text-to-speech program to communicate during their periods of post op silence or prerecorded any commonly used phrases on their phone for quick playback?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 19, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 19, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
Quote from: AshleyL on July 19, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
I was wondering, has anyone tried using a text-to-speech program to communicate during their periods of post op silence or prerecorded any commonly used phrases on their phone for quick playback?
That's what I've been doing, it works pretty well... it's still exceptionally frustrating! Only 5 days left till I can speak... Whoop whoop!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Apollymi on July 19, 2014, 08:48:53 PM
Post by: Apollymi on July 19, 2014, 08:48:53 PM
Hi Livvykins
It's hard to believe that's it been almost a month since we had surgery! I don't know about anyone else but not speaking has been really hard especially being a people manager. I'm so looking forward to being able to talk again! :D
I was wondering if any of the girls that have had the surgery have any advice for starting to talk again? Should a person just talk normally or talk in a higher voice? Does recording your voice help? Etc etc etc.....
Thanks
Dana
It's hard to believe that's it been almost a month since we had surgery! I don't know about anyone else but not speaking has been really hard especially being a people manager. I'm so looking forward to being able to talk again! :D
I was wondering if any of the girls that have had the surgery have any advice for starting to talk again? Should a person just talk normally or talk in a higher voice? Does recording your voice help? Etc etc etc.....
Thanks
Dana
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on July 19, 2014, 08:56:07 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on July 19, 2014, 08:56:07 PM
OMG, I'm so excited to hear your recordings :D triple Whoop whoop!
Just 10 days left before I can start working out again :D 17 days until Short Convo :D
Just 10 days left before I can start working out again :D 17 days until Short Convo :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 20, 2014, 12:31:29 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 20, 2014, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: MeganChristine on July 19, 2014, 08:56:07 PM
OMG, I'm so excited to hear your recordings :D triple Whoop whoop!
Just 10 days left before I can start working out again :D 17 days until Short Convo :D
Ok so I was a little naughty as I haven't said anything in a whole week... none of my 1-4 words a day... I thought I'd do a very quick sentence from the start of Rainbow passage....
I wasn't concentrating on flow, phonation or resonance... just trying to get the words out! lol
Pre-op I started at 143, the average of this was 211hz although I started at 235hz and got a little horse by the end. No more till Friday now, when I can start properly :)
What do you think? It's very early days....
https://soundcloud.com/hedstatic/olivia-yeson-vocal-test-200714 (https://soundcloud.com/hedstatic/olivia-yeson-vocal-test-200714)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 20, 2014, 01:14:09 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 20, 2014, 01:14:09 PM
No attention to resonance or anything? That is way cool - totally feminine in pitch and sound. I guess you have done some subconscious changes to your voice as many who use a trained voice pre op do, but still - I find this ia very nice and I am happy for you :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 20, 2014, 01:47:40 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 20, 2014, 01:47:40 PM
Quote from: anjaq on July 20, 2014, 01:14:09 PM
No attention to resonance or anything? That is way cool - totally feminine in pitch and sound. I guess you have done some subconscious changes to your voice as many who use a trained voice pre op do, but still - I find this ia very nice and I am happy for you :)
Aw thanks so much, that's made my day! I've honestly done very very little conscious training and certainly none with a therapist... I did a little bit of practise with the Kathe Perez course, but got fed up doing it after a while as I found the course recording really irritating... I've probably made sub conscious changes though over the past couple of years. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 21, 2014, 07:07:01 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 21, 2014, 07:07:01 PM
I have a question I was wondering about... in a lot of cases, different qualities of our voices are influenced by body size and habitus. Taller people can tend to have longer tracheas and bigger lungs, pharynx, etc. While VFS won't change any of those features, it does alter how our vocal chords interact with them.
So my question is this: Do you think your body size, and relevant proportional vocal anatomy, had an effect on the outcome of your post VFS voice? And how? Did certain features disappear or change?
I know a lot of this can be manipulated with proper vocal training, but my vocal coach brought up this question during our last session and I was intrigued by it as well, so I thought I'd post it here.
So my question is this: Do you think your body size, and relevant proportional vocal anatomy, had an effect on the outcome of your post VFS voice? And how? Did certain features disappear or change?
I know a lot of this can be manipulated with proper vocal training, but my vocal coach brought up this question during our last session and I was intrigued by it as well, so I thought I'd post it here.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on July 22, 2014, 03:54:21 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on July 22, 2014, 03:54:21 PM
Dear Ashley,
I'm 5'10" and have quite a sturdy build. My male voice pre-surgery was a dramatic baritone. When I didn't pay attention to raising my larynx and making my voice come out femininely, the male voice would always resurface and come out loud and clear. Post surgery, this register is unavailable. If I just relax and speak or sing with low larynx position, it gets strenuous and the voice, while still feminine, will tire in a relatively short timespan. If I raise my larynx, however, my voice can keep going for hours without problem. So the surgery sort of forces you to use the correct larynx position.
I find it crucial that you're able to reach the feminine-voice "sweet spot" before surgery, because you'll need that post-surgery to find a comfortable place to speak from.
Regards,
Amy
I'm 5'10" and have quite a sturdy build. My male voice pre-surgery was a dramatic baritone. When I didn't pay attention to raising my larynx and making my voice come out femininely, the male voice would always resurface and come out loud and clear. Post surgery, this register is unavailable. If I just relax and speak or sing with low larynx position, it gets strenuous and the voice, while still feminine, will tire in a relatively short timespan. If I raise my larynx, however, my voice can keep going for hours without problem. So the surgery sort of forces you to use the correct larynx position.
I find it crucial that you're able to reach the feminine-voice "sweet spot" before surgery, because you'll need that post-surgery to find a comfortable place to speak from.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 22, 2014, 04:08:41 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 22, 2014, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on July 22, 2014, 03:54:21 PM
Dear Ashley,
I'm 5'10" and have quite a sturdy build. My male voice pre-surgery was a dramatic baritone. When I didn't pay attention to raising my larynx and making my voice come out femininely, the male voice would always resurface and come out loud and clear. Post surgery, this register is unavailable. If I just relax and speak or sing with low larynx position, it gets strenuous and the voice, while still feminine, will tire in a relatively short timespan. If I raise my larynx, however, my voice can keep going for hours without problem. So the surgery sort of forces you to use the correct larynx position.
I find it crucial that you're able to reach the feminine-voice "sweet spot" before surgery, because you'll need that post-surgery to find a comfortable place to speak from.
Regards,
Amy
Well said Amy, totally agree! That is certainly how I've found things as well :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 22, 2014, 06:51:36 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 22, 2014, 06:51:36 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on July 22, 2014, 03:54:21 PM
Dear Ashley,
I'm 5'10" and have quite a sturdy build. My male voice pre-surgery was a dramatic baritone. When I didn't pay attention to raising my larynx and making my voice come out femininely, the male voice would always resurface and come out loud and clear. Post surgery, this register is unavailable. If I just relax and speak or sing with low larynx position, it gets strenuous and the voice, while still feminine, will tire in a relatively short timespan. If I raise my larynx, however, my voice can keep going for hours without problem. So the surgery sort of forces you to use the correct larynx position.
I find it crucial that you're able to reach the feminine-voice "sweet spot" before surgery, because you'll need that post-surgery to find a comfortable place to speak from.
Regards,
Amy
Thanks for the responses! I'm wondering though, since you've had significant vocal training and have used a high larynx position for quite some time, is it because you had used a high larynx position that it sort of became the 'default' muscle memory position (to a small degree) and using a lower larynx position takes conscious effort, which is why it tires out more quickly?
For me, I think I semi-unconsciously maintain a higher larynx position most of the time, except when I'm doing some involuntary actions (laughing while trying to talk is probably the worst) and I don't tend to have to think about it for day to day stuff. So it's mostly automatic, but it requires a sort of unconscious effort to maintain, if that makes any sense.
I'm about 6'3", but luckily I have a pretty slim build. My male voice goes down to about 100 hz, but nowadays when I do recordings the average is around 130 because of learned usage of inflections in my speech patterns. My trained voice is usually around 160, which sort of fits for my size.
My personal hang ups about the sound of my voice notwithstanding, my friends and family in the know say my voice passes fine, and I don't usually get any odd looks (except to gawk at my height) when speaking with patients.
Ashley.
I swear... waiting 2 1/2 more months is going to be torture! :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 23, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 23, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on July 22, 2014, 03:54:21 PMOh that is a bit weird. Because this is already happening to me now. If I drop my voice too much - which is in a way a relaxation - it strains a lot, I get more voice assymetry - bad sounds etc. So I guess this makes sense:
If I just relax and speak or sing with low larynx position, it gets strenuous and the voice, while still feminine, will tire in a relatively short timespan. If I raise my larynx, however, my voice can keep going for hours without problem. So the surgery sort of forces you to use the correct larynx position
Quote from: AshleyL on July 22, 2014, 06:51:36 PMThe upside is, Amy says it still sounds feminine which is good for the cases one slips. And as I understand it, when doing the raised larynx position, it is also easier then to speak? After all, a raised larynx always seems to go along with an increase in pitch, for some that is enough to be in the female range, for some it means one has to push even higher from that position...
Thanks for the responses! I'm wondering though, since you've had significant vocal training and have used a high larynx position for quite some time, is it because you had used a high larynx position that it sort of became the 'default' muscle memory position (to a small degree) and using a lower larynx position takes conscious effort, which is why it tires out more quickly?
Something I just realized though: We are often talking about average speaking frequency F0. Simply by increasing intonation, "speech melody" that F0 goes up quite a bit as it means the average goes up due to some of the sylabils that are high pitched. If F0 then a good measure to analyze voices at all? I mean, I can read the rainbow passage with an F0 of 160 Hz but still have low pitched words in it at 125 Hz but some >200 Hz words will compensate for them. Reading something else or using less intonation will shift this and then I have only F0 of 140 Hz - or reading an example page that has only questions written on it (going way up in pitch a tthe end of the word or sentence - its a voice training page), I would have an F0 of 180 maybe.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 23, 2014, 01:18:39 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 23, 2014, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: anjaq on July 23, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Oh that is a bit weird. Because this is already happening to me now. If I drop my voice too much - which is in a way a relaxation - it strains a lot, I get more voice assymetry - bad sounds etc. So I guess this makes sense:The upside is, Amy says it still sounds feminine which is good for the cases one slips. And as I understand it, when doing the raised larynx position, it is also easier then to speak? After all, a raised larynx always seems to go along with an increase in pitch, for some that is enough to be in the female range, for some it means one has to push even higher from that position...
When I start to get lazy or relax too much with my voice I tend to feel like I'm speaking more from the back of my throat/mouth, rather than resonating in the front, and while my larynx may drop a little, I'm pretty sure it stays in a raised position.
Quote from: anjaq on July 23, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Something I just realized though: We are often talking about average speaking frequency F0. Simply by increasing intonation, "speech melody" that F0 goes up quite a bit as it means the average goes up due to some of the sylabils that are high pitched. If F0 then a good measure to analyze voices at all? I mean, I can read the rainbow passage with an F0 of 160 Hz but still have low pitched words in it at 125 Hz but some >200 Hz words will compensate for them. Reading something else or using less intonation will shift this and then I have only F0 of 140 Hz - or reading an example page that has only questions written on it (going way up in pitch a tthe end of the word or sentence - its a voice training page), I would have an F0 of 180 maybe.
This is what I meant when I was talking about learned inflection. I think the F0 is still a good measure, but one should be aware that it is in fact an average of the entire recording and you should still look to the source to look at the highs and lows. Plus, considering that the bulk of your speech will typically be in the F0 range, depending on how many points the software samples, a few peaks may not have that much of an effect on the overall average. No one really speaks in a monotone day to day anyway. Personally I don't really like reading from passages when doing recordings because I'm conscious of a change in my speech pattern when reading. I've been working on memorizing the rainbow passage and then trying to recite it as though I were explaining the phenomenon to someone else in casual conversation.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 23, 2014, 05:46:18 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 23, 2014, 05:46:18 PM
I notice in praat that I will typically have a sort of baseline and then peaks going up from that with some intermediate area where it goes a bit up and down. I always also look at the baseline or take sections that dont have those super high peaks in them as they tend to raise the overall average F0 by several 10s.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: northcountrymassage on July 23, 2014, 10:39:52 PM
Post by: northcountrymassage on July 23, 2014, 10:39:52 PM
So listening to you girls does that mean since I never had any training beforehand, and only used my regular voice (137 Hz) that my voice is going to be weird and will tire/get sore quickly? I know that Dr. Kim said that I will probably only need the one shot of Botox and with professional coaching afterwards that I should see good improvement somewhere from 2 to 4 months, but now I'm a little freaked out again. I plan on training hard, but I'm now worried that if for some reason my brain just doesn't get it I will have problems from here on out. I suppose worrying is foolish as the deed is done, and there is no turning back now. Operation was on Monday and I think everything is healing fine, I have my follow up tomorrow afternoon and then fly back to the states Saturday. Oh another question for you all. It seems like for the past couple of days I have been really tired, do you think this is because of the jet lag, restarting the HRT, the fact that the surgery is over, or just a combination of all of the above?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 23, 2014, 11:28:48 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 23, 2014, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: northcountrymassage on July 23, 2014, 10:39:52 PM
So listening to you girls does that mean since I never had any training beforehand, and only used my regular voice (137 Hz) that my voice is going to be weird and will tire/get sore quickly? I know that Dr. Kim said that I will probably only need the one shot of Botox and with professional coaching afterwards that I should see good improvement somewhere from 2 to 4 months, but now I'm a little freaked out again. I plan on training hard, but I'm now worried that if for some reason my brain just doesn't get it I will have problems from here on out. I suppose worrying is foolish as the deed is done, and there is no turning back now. Operation was on Monday and I think everything is healing fine, I have my follow up tomorrow afternoon and then fly back to the states Saturday. Oh another question for you all. It seems like for the past couple of days I have been really tired, do you think this is because of the jet lag, restarting the HRT, the fact that the surgery is over, or just a combination of all of the above?
I don't know for sure whether or not if using your voice as you normally did will tire you out quickly or not. But if I recall correctly, Jenny didn't do a whole lot of voice training beforehand and I don't think she reported any drastic vocal fatigue after her surgery. It should be interesting to compare notes as you recover. As for the training part, the good part is that from here on out it's all in your hands (well, having a professional coach wouldn't hurt either). You don't have to worry about something going wrong that's out of your control anymore, and however long it takes, I'm sure you'll find your voice eventually :).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 24, 2014, 01:38:20 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 24, 2014, 01:38:20 AM
The part about Jenny is not entirely true. Actually she did a lot of voice training before and I think she really was paying attention to it a lot aftwerwards as well. So she is probably not the person one should take as an example for someone with less training.
But the other parts I think are so true. To me it seems a big benefit is, that post op you cannot do anything wrong in the sense that it goes into male register anymore. You basically "only" have to worry about souding good and to speak healthy and not so much anymore about sounding female. And those issues are basically regular voice training - the type that singers, speakers, teachers or people who had any other voice issues are doing. I believe this makes it a lot easier on the mind.
But the other parts I think are so true. To me it seems a big benefit is, that post op you cannot do anything wrong in the sense that it goes into male register anymore. You basically "only" have to worry about souding good and to speak healthy and not so much anymore about sounding female. And those issues are basically regular voice training - the type that singers, speakers, teachers or people who had any other voice issues are doing. I believe this makes it a lot easier on the mind.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: northcountrymassage on July 24, 2014, 06:09:54 AM
Post by: northcountrymassage on July 24, 2014, 06:09:54 AM
Thank you anjaq, that does help ease my mind quite a bit knowing that I will have to work on fine tuning it to sound the best that it can, and not that it is going to sound awful. :-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 24, 2014, 07:17:43 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 24, 2014, 07:17:43 AM
Mind you this is only what I gather from the ones who were reporting about it. I did not have this procedure.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 27, 2014, 04:11:24 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 27, 2014, 04:11:24 PM
Well it's finally been a month and I can talk again... YAY!!!
OMG I'm SO hoarse the whole time! I start off the day hoarse, get a little better mid day, and can barely say anything by the evening. Still it's such a massive relief to be able to communicate without a text to speech app...
So I recorded my one month video to send to Jessie, I really should have done it earlier in the day before I got as croaky
But here it is anyway...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ4UE27Xsj4
I'll record another one each month for the next year, sorry if they get boring!
Livvy x
OMG I'm SO hoarse the whole time! I start off the day hoarse, get a little better mid day, and can barely say anything by the evening. Still it's such a massive relief to be able to communicate without a text to speech app...
So I recorded my one month video to send to Jessie, I really should have done it earlier in the day before I got as croaky
But here it is anyway...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ4UE27Xsj4
I'll record another one each month for the next year, sorry if they get boring!
Livvy x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 27, 2014, 04:43:22 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 27, 2014, 04:43:22 PM
Sounds like oyu are breaking upo a bit some of the time, but when it works it sounds great. No doubt this was a success, I think, as long as the hoarseness will go away as nicely as it always seems to have done up to now with others.
Can you describe a bit how it felt to speak in the video? Did you use some control, some of the things you did in voice training, did you deliberately control pitch, resonance or anything? Did it feel the same in terms of using muscles and your voice as it did pre op with a lower pitch?
So glad this works out good for you! Best wishes for the next months
Can you describe a bit how it felt to speak in the video? Did you use some control, some of the things you did in voice training, did you deliberately control pitch, resonance or anything? Did it feel the same in terms of using muscles and your voice as it did pre op with a lower pitch?
So glad this works out good for you! Best wishes for the next months
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 27, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 27, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
Quote from: anjaq on July 27, 2014, 04:43:22 PM
Sounds like oyu are breaking upo a bit some of the time, but when it works it sounds great. No doubt this was a success, I think, as long as the hoarseness will go away as nicely as it always seems to have done up to now with others.
Can you describe a bit how it felt to speak in the video? Did you use some control, some of the things you did in voice training, did you deliberately control pitch, resonance or anything? Did it feel the same in terms of using muscles and your voice as it did pre op with a lower pitch?
So glad this works out good for you! Best wishes for the next months
Thanks! I honestly should have recorded it in the morning not late afternoon... it wasn't breaking up anywhere like that much earlier... Also after like the first sentence it was getting a lot harder to say anything at all. It certainly drops in pitch when it wears out.
I honestly don't think I was doing anything while speaking in the vid, except trying to get through it before my voice gave out... certainly nothing resonancey... It felt just like speaking naturally, using exactly the same muscles, but as if you've lost or losing your voice with laryngitis if you've ever had that. Also I've been really snuffly the last couple of days, I think I've got a cold coming
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 28, 2014, 11:18:03 AM
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 28, 2014, 11:18:03 AM
Wow you sound great for just one month post-op! Very little hoarseness. :)
Did you have the full half of your vocal cords tied up?
Did you have the full half of your vocal cords tied up?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 28, 2014, 11:25:56 AM
Post by: Livvykins on July 28, 2014, 11:25:56 AM
Quote from: Charlotte2 on July 28, 2014, 11:18:03 AM
Wow you sound great for just one month post-op! Very little hoarseness. :)
Did you have the full half of your vocal cords tied up?
Thanks Charlotte!
I'm not really sure how it compares to other girls results for one month, I've only really seen Jenny's vids and I think the earliest one was from two months...
No it was just a third I think... if you go back a few pages you should be able to find the picture I posted of my vocal chords :)
I was trying to use as relaxed a voice as possible and speak naturally without any use of resonance training or raising my pitch at all... when I try raising my pitch is goes a lot higher... I thought speaking without would be a lot more useful for the video though. By the end of the passage my voice was failing a bit... I had been nattering quite a lot that day, I should have recorded it in the morning with a rested voice. Oops... next time!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 28, 2014, 12:24:10 PM
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 28, 2014, 12:24:10 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 28, 2014, 11:25:56 AMI'm about a week off the 2 month mark and I still have a bit more hoarseness than you even now. So good job! :D ;D
Thanks Charlotte!
I'm not really sure how it compares to other girls results for one month, I've only really seen Jenny's vids and I think the earliest one was from two months...
No it was just a third I think... if you go back a few pages you should be able to find the picture I posted of my vocal chords :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 28, 2014, 12:38:11 PM
Post by: Shantel on July 28, 2014, 12:38:11 PM
Olivia,
I clicked on you're video and it said discontinued so I watched it on YouTube and my gosh you sound just wonderful to me dear, nice job Dr. Kim!
I clicked on you're video and it said discontinued so I watched it on YouTube and my gosh you sound just wonderful to me dear, nice job Dr. Kim!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 28, 2014, 01:04:54 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 28, 2014, 01:04:54 PM
Quote from: Shantel on July 28, 2014, 12:38:11 PM
Olivia,
I clicked on you're video and it said discontinued so I watched it on YouTube and my gosh you sound just wonderful to me dear, nice job Dr. Kim!
Thanks Shantel, that's very kind! I can't wait for month two when I can sing again!!! :) x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 28, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
Post by: Shantel on July 28, 2014, 01:25:10 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 28, 2014, 01:04:54 PM
Thanks Shantel, that's very kind! I can't wait for month two when I can sing again!!! :) x
You have a very feminine voice and delivery, love your accent, you sound very sweet!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AshleyL on July 28, 2014, 06:36:27 PM
Post by: AshleyL on July 28, 2014, 06:36:27 PM
Olivia, you sound great! Even with no resonance or pitch modulation it sounds very good! I can hear the hoarseness you're talking about, but I'm sure that will get better with time! I'm so happy for you!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on July 29, 2014, 03:09:50 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on July 29, 2014, 03:09:50 AM
Dear Olivia,
congratulations on a great result! Keep me posted how things are going singing-wise. I'm 3 months post and slowly regaining my singing powers...
Amy
congratulations on a great result! Keep me posted how things are going singing-wise. I'm 3 months post and slowly regaining my singing powers...
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on July 29, 2014, 11:57:25 AM
Post by: Carlita on July 29, 2014, 11:57:25 AM
Quote from: Shantel on July 28, 2014, 12:38:11 PM
Olivia,
I clicked on you're video and it said discontinued so I watched it on YouTube and my gosh you sound just wonderful to me dear, nice job Dr. Kim!
How did you find it on YouTube? I've tried every combination of Olivia/Livvy/Yeson/update I can think of without any success ... and I'm longing to hear how a fellow-Brit sounds after Yeson!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 29, 2014, 12:00:10 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 29, 2014, 12:00:10 PM
Quote from: Carlita on July 29, 2014, 11:57:25 AM
How did you find it on YouTube? I've tried every combination of Olivia/Livvy/Yeson/update I can think of without any success ... and I'm longing to hear how a fellow-Brit sounds after Yeson!
Oh I wonder why the link doesn't work...
Try this :)
http://youtu.be/FJ4UE27Xsj4
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on July 29, 2014, 12:34:36 PM
Post by: Shantel on July 29, 2014, 12:34:36 PM
Quote from: Carlita on July 29, 2014, 11:57:25 AM
How did you find it on YouTube? I've tried every combination of Olivia/Livvy/Yeson/update I can think of without any success ... and I'm longing to hear how a fellow-Brit sounds after Yeson!
It doesn't work so click on the banner at the top of the video and it brings up her YouTube video.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on July 29, 2014, 01:04:18 PM
Post by: Livvykins on July 29, 2014, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Shantel on July 29, 2014, 12:34:36 PM
It doesn't work so click on the banner at the top of the video and it brings up her YouTube video.
Oops! Sorry I had turned off the 'allow embedding' off...
Should work now :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 30, 2014, 04:54:07 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 30, 2014, 04:54:07 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 27, 2014, 06:31:13 PMThats way cool then. this as a natural no-effort voice, plus some healing happening about the breakups and strength of the voice - it will be perfect :)
It felt just like speaking naturally, using exactly the same muscles, but as if you've lost or losing your voice with laryngitis if you've ever had that.
Yes I definitely had my voice give up some times. I had voice issues from overusing a feminized voice for years sadly. One time I tried to record my old voice out of interest. Something went wrong there and my voice was breaking up oin the hours after that and then I could not speak for 2 days. I so was thinking "a , this is how it is for the girl who are post op in Korea now" :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on July 31, 2014, 05:51:05 AM
Post by: Carlita on July 31, 2014, 05:51:05 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on July 29, 2014, 12:00:10 PM
Oh I wonder why the link doesn't work...
Try this :)
http://youtu.be/FJ4UE27Xsj4
I did ... and it's amazing! You sound wonderful, and it's really helpful to hear an English accent, because I have a much better, instinctive ability to assess how it sounds. And my assessment is: good work, young lady!
And good work, Yeson, too ... Seoul really is becoming an essential stop on the MTF transition journey ...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 31, 2014, 10:57:31 AM
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 31, 2014, 10:57:31 AM
Quote from: Carlita on July 31, 2014, 05:51:05 AMHi Carlita,
I did ... and it's amazing! You sound wonderful, and it's really helpful to hear an English accent, because I have a much better, instinctive ability to assess how it sounds. And my assessment is: good work, young lady!
And good work, Yeson, too ... Seoul really is becoming an essential stop on the MTF transition journey ...
IIRC Voodle is another British patient of Dr Kim's. She put up her 1 year result about 2-3 months ago on here. I think it was really impressive and shows very nicely how Yeson voices evolve over time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 31, 2014, 01:23:17 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 31, 2014, 01:23:17 PM
Oh, i remember how voodle was quite disappointed at first. I heard she was getting more out of it with time. Do you have the link to her post with the 1 year recording to share here?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 31, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 31, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Yes I think she was quite upset at first but, in my opinion anyway, the end result is one of the nicest voices I've heard. :)
It's still here, I think:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1IL24PWe1fE
It's still here, I think:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1IL24PWe1fE
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 31, 2014, 02:00:56 PM
Post by: Charlotte2 on July 31, 2014, 02:00:56 PM
Also the thread is here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156860.80.html
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kim27 on July 31, 2014, 04:14:40 PM
Post by: kim27 on July 31, 2014, 04:14:40 PM
Just wanted to say a huge thank you to Jennygirl - you have been an inspiration!!! When I showed a you tube video to a friend at work her jaw dropped at the difference from before to after. I always heard bad stories about vocal surgery, but I am now intending to try and get it done in 6 months (it will take a while to save up) lol - but thank you xxx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 31, 2014, 04:59:38 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 31, 2014, 04:59:38 PM
You are right - i heard that before and found it was nice and obviously yes of course - resonance (raising the larynx) is still needed. Maybe she did not know that as her voice therapist seems to not have trained that. once she does that, she sounds great.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: northcountrymassage on August 03, 2014, 09:58:43 PM
Post by: northcountrymassage on August 03, 2014, 09:58:43 PM
That's odd that you talk about raising the larynx, because the exercises they gave me for the two month period specifically states to not raise it up or down, just back and forth.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 03:31:19 AM
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 03:31:19 AM
How do you move the larynx back and forth - AFAIK it only can move up and down?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 04:03:15 AM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 04:03:15 AM
I was told to totally relax the larynx when I was talking, not to try an push it up again. Just plain natural speech.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 05:04:50 AM
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 05:04:50 AM
Odd - would this not result in a male resonance and one sounds like a high pitched guy because pitch is after all not all there is to a feminine voice. I guess it makes sense to first not strain things too much but after a while, one will have to do something, not? I mean - there are some people who did have voice surgeries that I have heard (not from yeson but from others with a similar technique) who do not really sound that female despite the higher pitch, because they did not change the rest of their voices.
If it would be so easy - to just speak without any effort and sound female, it would be a quick fix surgery for the voice, but that seems to me to be unlikely.
If it would be so easy - to just speak without any effort and sound female, it would be a quick fix surgery for the voice, but that seems to me to be unlikely.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 10:56:50 AM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 10:56:50 AM
It really is that easy, today a friend said that I lacked the raspiness now. It's softer. Before it sounded like I was constantly in the verge of getting a cold. With other words, I'm right here I used to be when I had to push my larynx up... Within doing it anymore! Wooohoo!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on August 04, 2014, 11:36:14 AM
Post by: Livvykins on August 04, 2014, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 10:56:50 AM
It really is that easy, today a friend said that I lacked the raspiness now. It's softer. Before it sounded like I was constantly in the verge of getting a cold. With other words, I'm right here I used to be when I had to push my larynx up... Within doing it anymore! Wooohoo!
Yay! Really pleased for you :) I can't wait for the raspiness to disappear... I think I'll be the same as you soon. To be honest, when I do try and push my larynx up now, I go all squeaky and unnatural sounding... it sounds a lot better when I just relax and just speak normally. Which is exactly what I always wanted :) Whoop!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 02:40:21 PM
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 02:40:21 PM
Ok, this really is interesting. I am not even sure I know how to lower my larynx without getting it strained anymore, it somehow got stuck there a bit. It does not change the pitch too much though - maybe 20-30 Hz. As long as you do not sound male in resonance when you lower the larynx, I guess there is no need to push it into a squeaky voice. As long as you do not have to use the sequaky to sound female in resonance and timbre ;) - I war talking to my GP today about voice and she thinks my voice is quite good and clear when I drop the pitch to what comes out naturally and not raise it. If I raise it, I often sound more unnatural and forced, so I try to avoid it if I can now. I still am not that comfy with that deep 140-150 Hz voice that is the result then, going down as low as 125 in some words. Thats clearly not in the normal female range. Considereing going up in pitch results in a false or forced or strained sound more easily for me, a VFS would probably be able to solve that, I am now just confused about how to make a female resonance or timbre post op. If you do not raise the larynx anymore, how do you make it so that you do not sound like a high pitched guy - I always thought, resonance is the key to making a voice sound female, not pitch.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
Data from the pre-op analysis at Yeson for those who are interested, bet you are Anja ;)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1381.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah231%2FMegC%2FYeson%2FIMG_8154_zps27d8faac.jpg&hash=a683813f1526fa6af5e410e34e55f50b28622c84) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1381.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah231%2FMegC%2FYeson%2FIMG_8155_zpse9b1f2f1.jpg&hash=1646c56b8d13919e658ad9e8aa6e2ac448a53b9c) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1381.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah231%2FMegC%2FYeson%2FIMG_8156_zps07a9984f.jpg&hash=d6601e1ba42418c8cee6cf98eb043f89aa2e3047)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1381.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah231%2FMegC%2FYeson%2FIMG_8154_zps27d8faac.jpg&hash=a683813f1526fa6af5e410e34e55f50b28622c84) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1381.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah231%2FMegC%2FYeson%2FIMG_8155_zpse9b1f2f1.jpg&hash=1646c56b8d13919e658ad9e8aa6e2ac448a53b9c) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1381.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah231%2FMegC%2FYeson%2FIMG_8156_zps07a9984f.jpg&hash=d6601e1ba42418c8cee6cf98eb043f89aa2e3047)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 06:18:15 PM
Post by: anjaq on August 04, 2014, 06:18:15 PM
Intersting - what are the first two ones - two differntly pitched voices? Dis you have to speak at the lowest and highest frequencies you can or was it just you reading something and the min and max frequencies are the ones occuring in that? A min of 90 Hz seems awfully low for something to occur in a normal text - I can only go there if I deliberately lower my voice. In speech it never goes that deep except maybe for the odd light cough or "hmm"
But for a test of vocal range, the range seems rather small - just 2 octaves... maybe you can say a bit more what was done in these tests
But for a test of vocal range, the range seems rather small - just 2 octaves... maybe you can say a bit more what was done in these tests
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 06:28:01 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 04, 2014, 06:28:01 PM
No text, this was to test your voice from the lowest to the highest? And the frequency you normally produce. Statistic A is natural, whilst statistic B is trained voice.
The last image is where you feel most comfortable, on a even consistent tone. This was to find jitter and breakups. Which eventually led to the fact that I needed a Botox shot
The tests was the aaaa eeeee ooo's ;))
The last image is where you feel most comfortable, on a even consistent tone. This was to find jitter and breakups. Which eventually led to the fact that I needed a Botox shot
The tests was the aaaa eeeee ooo's ;))
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 05, 2014, 12:28:28 AM
Post by: anjaq on August 05, 2014, 12:28:28 AM
Oh ok. So your range was only 82 Hz to 390 Hz? Interesting. Maybe it will increase at the upper end now with the vocal exercises. My range was also 83 at the lowest but went up to 800 or more in the upper range. But this is that "flagolet"/"whistle register", I guess. It is of coourse not available for speaking ;) - the only thing it is good for to me it seems is to puzzle my voice therapist ;)
I see - the lower graph basically is an atomatic analysis and if that shows vocal tremor, you get Botox. Hmm. So one should be careful to make clean sounds there if one wants to avoid botoxing ;)
The other ones - you basically were doing your vocal range with vowels there and then you had to do the vowels in your normal speaking range, but no reading? The Spectrograms there are thus basically just vowels? I find it hard to test my voice base frequency without saying some words, but I guess it could work.
I see - the lower graph basically is an atomatic analysis and if that shows vocal tremor, you get Botox. Hmm. So one should be careful to make clean sounds there if one wants to avoid botoxing ;)
The other ones - you basically were doing your vocal range with vowels there and then you had to do the vowels in your normal speaking range, but no reading? The Spectrograms there are thus basically just vowels? I find it hard to test my voice base frequency without saying some words, but I guess it could work.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 05, 2014, 04:13:38 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 05, 2014, 04:13:38 PM
There was allot of tests done.
- Vowels
- How clean you could keep a tone
- How long you were able to hold a tone
- How long your were able to make a tone before you ran out of air
- X-rays
- Highspeed camera making a slowmo video of your vocalfolds to see how they connected
- Reading the rainbow passage with normal voice and trained voice
The tests were extensive, the data was extensive.
- Vowels
- How clean you could keep a tone
- How long you were able to hold a tone
- How long your were able to make a tone before you ran out of air
- X-rays
- Highspeed camera making a slowmo video of your vocalfolds to see how they connected
- Reading the rainbow passage with normal voice and trained voice
The tests were extensive, the data was extensive.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on August 05, 2014, 05:24:52 PM
Post by: Livvykins on August 05, 2014, 05:24:52 PM
Quote from: MeganChristine on August 05, 2014, 04:13:38 PM
There was allot of tests done.
- Vowels
- How clean you could keep a tone
- How long you were able to hold a tone
- How long your were able to make a tone before you ran out of air
- X-rays
- Highspeed camera making a slowmo video of your vocalfolds to see how they connected
- Reading the rainbow passage with normal voice and trained voice
The tests were extensive, the data was extensive.
Yep, a lot of tests... Most of which made me gag! ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 05, 2014, 05:34:05 PM
Post by: anjaq on August 05, 2014, 05:34:05 PM
Yes - I have done these tests in part here at the phoniater. Nice slowmo video and then all the rest like how long and how clear one can make a vowel. how loud one can shout, low to high notes singing, reading some odd sentences starting with vowels and reading a passage... seems similar to what I know :)
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 05, 2014, 06:05:00 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 05, 2014, 06:05:00 PM
@livvykins: haha! Yeah, it's the first time someone ever has pulled my tongue and stuffed a metal rod with a stroboscope in the back of my mouth.
The nasal camera was no problem at all :) :p kind of a funny sensation when being numbed in the middle of the face :p
The nasal camera was no problem at all :) :p kind of a funny sensation when being numbed in the middle of the face :p
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 06, 2014, 03:26:08 PM
Post by: anjaq on August 06, 2014, 03:26:08 PM
That camera in the mouth - indeed. I was wondering if this really can give a realistic view. Like when she said then that I have a hypertension dysphonia - I wondered if the hypertension may be because of a metal rod being shoved into my throat :P - But I guess not.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 07, 2014, 12:15:11 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 07, 2014, 12:15:11 PM
Update:
Went to the doc today to get an update on the ongoing healing:
- Still some edema present in the vocal folds, and therefore the pitch has not increased that much yet
- The post chink I had is now very small, and should not be posing a problem
- Healing as expected and the suture area looks really nice.
Went to the doc today to get an update on the ongoing healing:
- Still some edema present in the vocal folds, and therefore the pitch has not increased that much yet
- The post chink I had is now very small, and should not be posing a problem
- Healing as expected and the suture area looks really nice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on August 20, 2014, 05:59:16 AM
Post by: Teslagirl on August 20, 2014, 05:59:16 AM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 17, 2013, 11:03:58 AM
Pretty expensive I suppose, still less than Dr Thomas if my memory is correct.
Flight from LAX- 900usd
Surgery- 7400usd
10 day hotel in Myeongdong- 1200usd
Luckily food is pretty inexpensive here, as is the shopping 8)
Jenny, if you're still watching this thread and are not too tired of answering questions... Were these costs for one person or two? Thanks.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 21, 2014, 01:51:25 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 21, 2014, 01:51:25 PM
Happy first-post for me!
After spending what has to be the better part of the past several days reading through every page, thinking about it throughout the days and absorbing an overwhelming amount of information to ponder, reflect upon, and take to heart, I've come to realize this is what's been missing for me and why I've had such a crushing anxiety condition & depression in recent years.
Previously I'd written off the risks & potential gains of voice surgery as too great and too scant to even consider it. But I've still felt not myself. It's always something I'm trying to compensate for. As a trained singer I've mastered the resonance, inflection, and singing capability I have, but unfortunately it takes unnatural effort, and when it comes to speaking the only way my voice sounds truly good is if I try to sound like I'm narrating for NPR or speaking calmly in soft tones. I cannot sound ok yelling, coughing, using squeak register (harsh falsetto breaks around E4-G4) or exiting that narrow range.
My voice passes great in these aspects and can be quite sexy at its best, but it becomes tired quickly and I end up with a limited expressive range. I often sound much more tired, drug-addicted, and older than fits my personality, emotional state, and behavior; being an inherently aware & empathic person, I can't help but notice constantly how it affects me socially. I even lost the will to continue my career largely because that is one area where my voice's limitations just really showed. I cringe hearing myself on evaluation videos (pitch often sits around C3-E3.)
Learning about Yeson and hearing the voices & reflections you, friends, have posted... this has been as a fog clearing under the radiant sun. My enthusiasm and hope are returning! I'm so happy that I don't have to give up on my dream of sounding the way I should.
I'm going to try and get an appointment scheduled right away - soonest I could probably do is in that week or two that college students get in between finals and the winter holidays. It sounds like a chilly time to visit. But it sounds like a breeze.
Surely I'll have some questions as things begin to materialize. This is the first thing on Susan's that has really made me feel called to participate in the discussion. Tytytyty for a very +1'able post!
~Rachel
After spending what has to be the better part of the past several days reading through every page, thinking about it throughout the days and absorbing an overwhelming amount of information to ponder, reflect upon, and take to heart, I've come to realize this is what's been missing for me and why I've had such a crushing anxiety condition & depression in recent years.
Previously I'd written off the risks & potential gains of voice surgery as too great and too scant to even consider it. But I've still felt not myself. It's always something I'm trying to compensate for. As a trained singer I've mastered the resonance, inflection, and singing capability I have, but unfortunately it takes unnatural effort, and when it comes to speaking the only way my voice sounds truly good is if I try to sound like I'm narrating for NPR or speaking calmly in soft tones. I cannot sound ok yelling, coughing, using squeak register (harsh falsetto breaks around E4-G4) or exiting that narrow range.
My voice passes great in these aspects and can be quite sexy at its best, but it becomes tired quickly and I end up with a limited expressive range. I often sound much more tired, drug-addicted, and older than fits my personality, emotional state, and behavior; being an inherently aware & empathic person, I can't help but notice constantly how it affects me socially. I even lost the will to continue my career largely because that is one area where my voice's limitations just really showed. I cringe hearing myself on evaluation videos (pitch often sits around C3-E3.)
Learning about Yeson and hearing the voices & reflections you, friends, have posted... this has been as a fog clearing under the radiant sun. My enthusiasm and hope are returning! I'm so happy that I don't have to give up on my dream of sounding the way I should.
I'm going to try and get an appointment scheduled right away - soonest I could probably do is in that week or two that college students get in between finals and the winter holidays. It sounds like a chilly time to visit. But it sounds like a breeze.
Surely I'll have some questions as things begin to materialize. This is the first thing on Susan's that has really made me feel called to participate in the discussion. Tytytyty for a very +1'able post!
~Rachel
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 21, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
Post by: anjaq on August 21, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
Thats great to hear Rachel. You have about the same speaking range tha tI often have then. C3-E3. And it sounds like for you it has been a while since you changed your voice (and a lot other than that ;) ) - probably also a decoare or so? You are teaching as well? two weeks off for the students. that a short period, hardly enough to properly rest. I am lucky and our students have about 6 weeks break ;).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 21, 2014, 03:12:32 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 21, 2014, 03:12:32 PM
Yes I've had ~8 years to really work on the voice (GCS exceptionally early in that time-frame, as well.) Voice was one of my first priorities. I frequently speak all over the G3-C4+ range, but because that's with effort the tone quality & resonance don't hold up in discussion at length. I can then keep resonance / tone quality passable to androgynous in the relaxed voice, at the sacrifice of not being able to vary pitch in a natural-sounding way.
I have no qualms about how I sound singing, the "falsetto" is very pure compared to counter-tenors I've heard (my chest voice singing sounds too male for me to accept.) In a classical style, my voice is feminine and powerful between ~E4 to ~F5 - which if that doesn't improve or get easier from surgery, I'd be fine. It sounds like those here have at least had not had negatives regarding singing, anyway.
Total vocal extreme range is G2-C3 up to A5 or possibly squeaking slightly higher, each depending on the day. Pardon to those who like frequencies (since it's what the docs use!) but I'm just more familiar with voices in terms of musical notes / register.
I haven't been teaching in years. Well, substituting, but I can give my voice any rest it needs. I'm actually back to study myself. It was odd looking like I could be a student but sounding (and performing!) like a veteran teach :P
Trach shave beforehand is one thing I've considered, but I really want a good voice first of all, and Yeson does recommend against it. The thing is, my laryngeal prominence is sort of borderline with what can be found in many cis-women (Kristen Stewart, etc) , and the part I'd actually care about reducing (cricoid cartilage) is probably that which would have the highest risk of weakening the anchors on my vocal folds! But I tend to think even those who gender police on such grounds have the ground crumble beneath them when it's accompanied by a very feminine voice, as opposed to vice versa :3
Ty for the warm welcome!
I have no qualms about how I sound singing, the "falsetto" is very pure compared to counter-tenors I've heard (my chest voice singing sounds too male for me to accept.) In a classical style, my voice is feminine and powerful between ~E4 to ~F5 - which if that doesn't improve or get easier from surgery, I'd be fine. It sounds like those here have at least had not had negatives regarding singing, anyway.
Total vocal extreme range is G2-C3 up to A5 or possibly squeaking slightly higher, each depending on the day. Pardon to those who like frequencies (since it's what the docs use!) but I'm just more familiar with voices in terms of musical notes / register.
I haven't been teaching in years. Well, substituting, but I can give my voice any rest it needs. I'm actually back to study myself. It was odd looking like I could be a student but sounding (and performing!) like a veteran teach :P
Trach shave beforehand is one thing I've considered, but I really want a good voice first of all, and Yeson does recommend against it. The thing is, my laryngeal prominence is sort of borderline with what can be found in many cis-women (Kristen Stewart, etc) , and the part I'd actually care about reducing (cricoid cartilage) is probably that which would have the highest risk of weakening the anchors on my vocal folds! But I tend to think even those who gender police on such grounds have the ground crumble beneath them when it's accompanied by a very feminine voice, as opposed to vice versa :3
Ty for the warm welcome!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 21, 2014, 03:29:18 PM
Post by: anjaq on August 21, 2014, 03:29:18 PM
Ah yes. it sounds very familiar except I do not sing at all :P - I am only teaching in a limited way, but still, I fee a bit nervous there about my voice , especially in practical work outdoors when I have to concentrate on 100 different things than voice. If the trach shave is not needed, why bother. If everything else fits and that part is borderline, leave it and rather get a good voice and not have a scar at the place, even if it is hidden, it still is there for the gender police to see ;) - And IMO it would be more of a red flag than a borderline laryngal prominence.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 21, 2014, 07:07:47 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 21, 2014, 07:07:47 PM
Quote from: anjaq on August 21, 2014, 03:29:18 PM
Ah yes. it sounds very familiar except I do not sing at all :P - I am only teaching in a limited way, but still, I fee a bit nervous there about my voice , especially in practical work outdoors when I have to concentrate on 100 different things than voice. If the trach shave is not needed, why bother. If everything else fits and that part is borderline, leave it and rather get a good voice and not have a scar at the place, even if it is hidden, it still is there for the gender police to see ;) - And IMO it would be more of a red flag than a borderline laryngal prominence.
Totally understandable. The risk of having a voice lowered from trach shave that then cannot be fixed, combined with the scar (I'm slender, so zero fat folds in which to hide it) just outweighs the potential gains.
I empathize with you in work, too. I'm sure having to speak at a louder than medium volume for very long, or speak/yell loudly at all, could get me clocked easily. And like you said, it's always something that requires concentration. I actually listened to some recordings of my voice recently.
They're not bad, certainly decent in most regards since I've put my heart, soul, and warfare into controlling this instrument, but my voice definitely gravitates towards ~150hz on its own. I can make that sound feminine. If Yeson didn't exist, I'd probably make do.
But the central issue for me is it's constantly me "vs" my voice - if I want to say something or express something vocally, I have to calculate the chance it will sound okay and gamble. Repeatedly, each day. And for me, that's compromising my personality, self-expression, and ultimately my life based on a characteristic that should simply "be" rather than having such power over me. I would love for my voice to finally not have the capacity to get me clocked and instead reflect what I feel inside.
Also Jenny what you describe as the division between chest voice & head voice or the 'break' going away... just sounds AMAZING. I struggle in that area, cracking like an adolescent -.-
Emotions are rolling. Gosh is that an understatement. I had everything in the world to do today besides focus mostly on more such research. Hopefully I'll be able to get the process rolling too in the next couple weeks!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 22, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
Post by: anjaq on August 22, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
Quote from: Rachelicious on August 21, 2014, 07:07:47 PMYes, same here except I have given up the warfare and just settled for now to have that 150 Hz and try my best to make it sound feminine. The downside of course is if I have VFS, people will probably notice if pitch goes up from there. I made it through it for the past 15 years, but discovering this option has gotten good enough to actually consider it really is tempting
They're not bad, certainly decent in most regards since I've put my heart, soul, and warfare into controlling this instrument, but my voice definitely gravitates towards ~150hz on its own. I can make that sound feminine. If Yeson didn't exist, I'd probably make do
QuoteBut the central issue for me is it's constantly me "vs" my voice - if I want to say something or express something vocally, I have to calculate the chance it will sound okay and gamble. Repeatedly, each day. And for me, that's compromising my personality, self-expression, and ultimately my life based on a characteristic that should simply "be" rather than having such power over me. I would love for my voice to finally not have the capacity to get me clocked and instead reflect what I feel inside.Exactly - The liberation would be the greatest part. I do not really expect to "pass" better that much, but just to have the safety and security that it cannot go wrong, to stop humming before answering a phone or coughing before speaking to the cashier at the supermarket to chek if pitch and resonance are all right - this is a constant reminder of being different. One feels - even if it is not so - as if one is just acting. I am not acting to be like a woman, I am a woman and I dont want to feel like I am an act. This probably is really a huge temptation for me to have a surgery.
QuoteAlso Jenny what you describe as the division between chest voice & head voice or the 'break' going away... just sounds AMAZING. I struggle in that area, cracking like an adolescent -.-This would be huge! I have learned how to mostly avoid that cracking and breaking and can do slides over it and also use some of that part for speaking single sylabils, but it takes some twisting of the voice. it is not easy. if that would be eased and the voice would feel less "locked" in th elwoer parts but can flow more easily upwards, it would be a uge improvement, but I think in part this will always be training. Some people even seem to get locked in the lower range after VFS and then think it was not a success, so it seems to be at least in part a psychological or training thing and to the other part a surgery result.
QuoteHopefully I'll be able to get the process rolling too in the next couple weeks!Good for you. You are making it a lot easier for yourself than me, thinking about this forever and wanting to make sure it really is working. Well plus I dont have the money and the student-free gap until February. I gues sif I had the money and time for it now, my decision would be faster ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Carlita on August 22, 2014, 11:09:01 AM
Post by: Carlita on August 22, 2014, 11:09:01 AM
Quote from: Charlotte2 on July 31, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Yes I think she was quite upset at first but, in my opinion anyway, the end result is one of the nicest voices I've heard. :)
It's still here, I think:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1IL24PWe1fE
Wow ... thanks for that! She sounds completely female and has to make a special effort to return to anything at all like a male range. Doctor, doctor ...I WANT WHAT SHE HAD!! ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery (double note on some words?)
Post by: Teslagirl on August 28, 2014, 02:46:41 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on August 28, 2014, 02:46:41 PM
There is a woman on Youtube (letsflybutterfly) who has posted two very detailed and informative videos of her experiences with Yeson. She sounds great but there is one thing I'd like reassurance on. I said this in a post to her channel:
I notice that you sometimes have a double note when starting some words, for example the word 'my' at 3:30 in the phrase "...my voice surgery". I've noticed this in some other Yeson patients. Is it something that will settle with time?
Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone know if it is a permanent thing?
I notice that you sometimes have a double note when starting some words, for example the word 'my' at 3:30 in the phrase "...my voice surgery". I've noticed this in some other Yeson patients. Is it something that will settle with time?
Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone know if it is a permanent thing?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery (double note on some words?)
Post by: Rachelicious on August 28, 2014, 03:51:24 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 28, 2014, 03:51:24 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on August 28, 2014, 02:46:41 PM
Has anyone else noticed this? Does anyone know if it is a permanent thing?
I'm going totally on instinct here, but she's speaking very close to her vocal fry in the linked video, and at ~2 months recovery I'd imagine she may have prior speech habits that lessened typical low-bass resonance to untrain in the new voice. It's a characteristic of how she's speaking rather than of the voice itself.
I also don't hear (or quite understand) what exactly you're referring to nor have I noticed any peculiar pitch matters in any Yeson girl's voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on August 29, 2014, 06:54:50 AM
Post by: Teslagirl on August 29, 2014, 06:54:50 AM
Without being able to post actual links here (not allowed!) I can't directly let you hear what I mean, but there is a definite double tone on some words with some patients, as if the main tone is underlain with a lower note. It's usually a sort of catch at the beginning of words, a bit like you hear when a boy's voice is breaking. I might put an example through Praat to see if I can visualise a double waveform. It would be great if you could hear what I mean as I sometimes feel I'm hallucinating!!
I very much want this surgery, but I need to be certain I'll benefit. My voice 'passes' in nearly all interactions, but it is controlled, and I can hear that control. With Jenny and others who've been to Yeson, the 'control' quality is missing and they just sound natural. That's also true of Letsflybutterfly. Her pitch is very similar pre and post, but she sounds somehow purer in the post video (except for the catch I mentioned above). Can anyone else hear what I mean?
I very much want this surgery, but I need to be certain I'll benefit. My voice 'passes' in nearly all interactions, but it is controlled, and I can hear that control. With Jenny and others who've been to Yeson, the 'control' quality is missing and they just sound natural. That's also true of Letsflybutterfly. Her pitch is very similar pre and post, but she sounds somehow purer in the post video (except for the catch I mentioned above). Can anyone else hear what I mean?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 29, 2014, 03:18:08 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 29, 2014, 03:18:08 PM
Oh, that. I was listening to the wrong video :D
Yes that can happen when speaking with a lot of the vocal fry, which tends to happen more when anxious or with a very nasal voice (as bass-voice ladies tend to in order to compensate.) I've heard the voices of old women (70'ish) speak in that sound plenty of times, so at the very least it is gender-normative. Notice how her voice sounds regular when singing or when speaking beyond a monotone.
Yes that can happen when speaking with a lot of the vocal fry, which tends to happen more when anxious or with a very nasal voice (as bass-voice ladies tend to in order to compensate.) I've heard the voices of old women (70'ish) speak in that sound plenty of times, so at the very least it is gender-normative. Notice how her voice sounds regular when singing or when speaking beyond a monotone.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 29, 2014, 03:29:27 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 29, 2014, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on August 29, 2014, 06:54:50 AM
My voice 'passes' in nearly all interactions, but it is controlled, and I can hear that control. With Jenny and others who've been to Yeson, the 'control' quality is missing and they just sound natural.
That's exactly why I'm looking to go. Before Yeson, voice work was just too poor-quality in results for me to consider it. I gave up on the idea of my vocal condition improving :( After 7+ years full-time, aside from electro that I'm finishing it is really the last big obstacle for me in terms of passing unconditionally all the time no matter what.
Quote from: Teslagirl on August 29, 2014, 06:54:50 AM
That's also true of Letsflybutterfly. Her pitch is very similar pre and post, but she sounds somehow purer in the post video (except for the catch I mentioned above). Can anyone else hear what I mean?
It's because she's able to speak properly without all the 1337 breath, resonance, and larynx effort that it takes to make a bass voice type sound as not-half-bad-at-all as she did pre-op. I'll be curious to hear the months ahead.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 30, 2014, 03:15:27 AM
Post by: anjaq on August 30, 2014, 03:15:27 AM
Speaking with less control would be great indeed. I am trending to just do that now actually. It results in a low pitched voice of course, but then I only have to control resonance and tension. And those I will have to do anyways for life :( - surgery or not. Interestingly in the past weeks I had the feeling that it actually seems to work. People seem to accept the voice as a low pitched female voice as long as I control the resonance properly, but if I slip there it is not good of course. What I noticed last week was, I have trouble singing at higher pitches - it works, but I feel that there is always a low timbre to it plus it takes a lot of effort and tension to just sing along with the other women in a group at the campfire. And I tend to raise pitch in some situations , but I feel that this drains energy - its not easy. So for these reasons I still consider VFS although I am now actually a bit worried about the pitch increase being very noticeable to others, since I am not using a trained high pitched voice.
About that diplophonia - I had this described to me by someone alse who was at Yeson. She noticed it a lot when singing. Apparently it became better with time though, especially the first phases with the medication and the botox should not really be counted as a result of VFS, IMO. There are too many factors playing a role in that time. The botox makes the voice softer, breathier, more feminine, but also a bit hoarse at times and rather low volume. The medication also makes the voice more soft and clear. If both at done with and the training was done for a while, I think that is the time for a true post op comparison recording. The 2 months yeson are posting on the youtube are too short. I think 6 Months would be appropriate.
About that diplophonia - I had this described to me by someone alse who was at Yeson. She noticed it a lot when singing. Apparently it became better with time though, especially the first phases with the medication and the botox should not really be counted as a result of VFS, IMO. There are too many factors playing a role in that time. The botox makes the voice softer, breathier, more feminine, but also a bit hoarse at times and rather low volume. The medication also makes the voice more soft and clear. If both at done with and the training was done for a while, I think that is the time for a true post op comparison recording. The 2 months yeson are posting on the youtube are too short. I think 6 Months would be appropriate.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
Quote from: Rachelicious on August 29, 2014, 03:18:08 PM
Oh, that. I was listening to the wrong video :D
Yes that can happen when speaking with a lot of the vocal fry, which tends to happen more when anxious or with a very nasal voice (as bass-voice ladies tend to in order to compensate.) I've heard the voices of old women (70'ish) speak in that sound plenty of times, so at the very least it is gender-normative. Notice how her voice sounds regular when singing or when speaking beyond a monotone.
I had to look up 'vocal fry' as I'd never heard the term before. It is most often mentioned (critically) as a deliberate affectation by young women in the US but I take it it can occur involuntarily. All I want to know is whether after surgery with Yeson, you can be saddled with this sound whether you want it or not. I don't like the sound personally.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 30, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 30, 2014, 01:27:45 PM
It is a part of the vocal register. And she only sounds that way for some of the video...
Let some girls who have had it already give feedback, but I really think you have nothing to worry about regarding this.
Let some girls who have had it already give feedback, but I really think you have nothing to worry about regarding this.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 01:31:39 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 01:31:39 PM
Quote from: anjaq on August 30, 2014, 03:15:27 AM
...although I am now actually a bit worried about the pitch increase being very noticeable to others, since I am not using a trained high pitched voice.
I was initially worried about this, but from all the examples it seems that the pitch pre and post is not vastly difference and as Jenny said, it climbs over the months. It's probably a slow enough process that no-one will notice and that's what I'm relying on.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 01:36:08 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: Rachelicious on August 29, 2014, 03:29:27 PM
It's because she's able to speak properly without all the 1337 breath, resonance, and larynx effort that it takes to make a bass voice type sound as not-half-bad-at-all as she did pre-op. I'll be curious to hear the months ahead.
What is '1337'?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on August 30, 2014, 01:45:51 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on August 30, 2014, 01:45:51 PM
Leet -> elite in hax0r0r0r
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 03:05:13 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 03:05:13 PM
Quote from: MeganChristine on August 30, 2014, 01:45:51 PMNow I fell really old. (My tee-shirts say 'The Future is Analogue')
Leet -> elite in hax0r0r0r
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 30, 2014, 03:27:23 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 30, 2014, 03:27:23 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on August 30, 2014, 01:31:39 PM
It's probably a slow enough process that no-one will notice and that's what I'm relying on.
Interesting approach. It's easy to pass off voice surgery & rest on the removal of polyps, nodes, or practically anything really. Most people do not actually know much about the voice.
I'll probably do something similar, and pitch gain will just be attributed to the lack of an afflicting condition.
Quote from: MeganChristine on August 30, 2014, 01:45:51 PM
Leet -> elite in hax0r0r0r
Yeah, it really is pretty amazing what some girls can pull off. Bass is not a forgiving voice type. For those curious, her vocal state in the 2month video actually IS quite a bit higher already - the lowest note she sang corresponds to the bottom of tenor range. So already she has gone up one entire voice part (Bass > Tenor > Alto > Sop) which is quite promising regarding future months!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on August 30, 2014, 04:24:08 PM
Post by: anjaq on August 30, 2014, 04:24:08 PM
I think I am probably also a bit of a bass - the lowest tone I can squeeze out is a F at about 90 Hz. In reality I could probably be more of a bariton if I would have sung before.
If pitch increases slowly , definitely saying a removal of nodules and something to fix my deformed vocal chords (I have pictures to prove that one) is a good solution. I already prepped the people at work in case it will happen (hinting towards my bad voice condition, also I dont have to find a way to expplain away my weekly voice therapy sessions). But with Jenny at least, the 2 months post op video and the early recordings showed a very fast increase in pitch and in some others it was like that as well. In some others it took forever and some have not reported back at what point it eventually improved. I still do not know how this happens, but it seems like it is a bit unpredictable. But certainly a somewhat higher pitch would be explainable if a voice conditionw as fixed that was damaging the voice.
If pitch increases slowly , definitely saying a removal of nodules and something to fix my deformed vocal chords (I have pictures to prove that one) is a good solution. I already prepped the people at work in case it will happen (hinting towards my bad voice condition, also I dont have to find a way to expplain away my weekly voice therapy sessions). But with Jenny at least, the 2 months post op video and the early recordings showed a very fast increase in pitch and in some others it was like that as well. In some others it took forever and some have not reported back at what point it eventually improved. I still do not know how this happens, but it seems like it is a bit unpredictable. But certainly a somewhat higher pitch would be explainable if a voice conditionw as fixed that was damaging the voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on August 31, 2014, 08:19:21 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on August 31, 2014, 08:19:21 AM
Quote from: anjaq on August 30, 2014, 04:24:08 PM
But with Jenny at least, the 2 months post op video and the early recordings showed a very fast increase in pitch and in some others it was like that as well. In some others it took forever and some have not reported back at what point it eventually improved. I still do not know how this happens, but it seems like it is a bit unpredictable. But certainly a somewhat higher pitch would be explainable if a voice conditionw as fixed that was damaging the voice.
Even with letsflybutterfly who identified herself as a bass (let's conservatively guess her previous lowest pitch at an F2=90, which it could well be lower) going up to lowest note at a C3=130hz, that is still a 40hz gain after 2 months. If she had a low-D before, she's gained 75hz already!
Let me say from honest experience I've heard lots, lots, lots of women talk in low-tenor register. Especially with a thinner vocal timbre, I think if a bass lady were concerned about 'only' becoming a tenor with Yeson, it is still a tremendous improvement especially with the increased passability of a thinner vocal timbre.
I feel part of the difference Yeson offers is being able to effortlessly speak at a good pitch, as opposed to being able to speak at pitch only with concentration. I know that's a huge factor for me and you can really hear the effortlessness of letsfly's 2 month video.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Amy1988 on August 31, 2014, 01:31:40 PM
Post by: Amy1988 on August 31, 2014, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on April 22, 2013, 06:09:10 PM
Hi everyone! I have been looking into this place "Yeson Voice Center" more and more. My practiced female voice is coming along but I am still finding great difficulty using it around people I already knew- which leads to difficulties across the board. I want to use it all the time but just... can't... for some reason.
From what I have found, Yeson seems to offer the safest and least invasive voice surgery out there, and according to them they have done over a hundred voices with about an 80% satisfaction rate. The other 20% mainly just felt they did not have enough change- there has been not a single patient who has had any sort of complication that made the voice worse.. aka no risk of losing the voice or sounding hoarse.
I guess the main reason I am so interested is (probably like anyone considering voice surgery): it would "force" me to have the correct voice no matter who I am around. When I do find the confidence to use a near female voice around my friends they seem to respond well, but i find it incredibly unnatural to keep the pitch up- yet I can feel the goodness as they really start to gender me properly from all angles due the way I sound. It's just soooo harrrrdd.. Especially talking loudly which I seem to have to frequently do- because I go to lots of musical events talking to someone in the midst of a loud sound system trying to pass. My voice gets worn out sooo fast like this. Also I laugh a ton, and it's a dead giveaway when I'm trying to pass. I don't want to hate my laugh for that or try to learn a new laugh that doesn't just come from within.
Anyone have experience with Yeson or know someone who's used them? I've already emailed Yeson and they were super on top of getting back to me about my initial questions, but I would love to chat with someone who's actually done the surgery and lives in the US if possible.
Thank you in advance girlies <3 <3
Where is Yeson?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on August 31, 2014, 01:52:43 PM
Post by: Shantel on August 31, 2014, 01:52:43 PM
Quote from: Amy1988 on August 31, 2014, 01:31:40 PM
Where is Yeson?
Seoul, South Korea
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Amy1988 on August 31, 2014, 04:14:14 PM
Post by: Amy1988 on August 31, 2014, 04:14:14 PM
Quote from: Shantel on August 31, 2014, 01:52:43 PM
Seoul, South Korea
Too far. I'm looking at Dr. Haben in Rochester.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 01, 2014, 06:47:29 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 01, 2014, 06:47:29 AM
Dont be worried about distance. I would fly to the moon if it meant a good result compared to something less than good by staing here :P - Ok, maybe not the moon, but actually I could probably get an insurance covered VFS in my countra but would probably rather spend the money for the flight and surgery in Korea than to let them butcher me. Dr Haben seems to be ok though , although we have only one woman here who went there and she is not that long post op now. Plus he will give you a neck scar, if that is of condern to you...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on September 01, 2014, 09:40:58 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on September 01, 2014, 09:40:58 AM
Quote from: anjaq on September 01, 2014, 06:47:29 AM
Dont be worried about distance. I would fly to the moon if it meant a good result compared to something less than good by staing here :P
This. I flew myself all the way out there for Pichet because he was inexpensive, so there's no way I could say no to the amazing results of Yeson just because they're only slightly less far away.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 01, 2014, 11:22:49 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 01, 2014, 11:22:49 AM
Hey!
It's been another few weeks... Just over 2 months now!
I haven't had a chance to do a video but here's my most recent sample.
https://soundcloud.com/hedstatic/olivia-010914
O x
It's been another few weeks... Just over 2 months now!
I haven't had a chance to do a video but here's my most recent sample.
https://soundcloud.com/hedstatic/olivia-010914
O x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 01, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
Post by: Shantel on September 01, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 01, 2014, 11:22:49 AM
Hey!
It's been another few weeks... Just over 2 months now!
I haven't had a chance to do a video but here's my most recent sample.
https://soundcloud.com/hedstatic/olivia-010914
O x
Love your sweet voice Olivia, it's perfect and you sound just darling! :icon_bunch: :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on September 01, 2014, 11:51:31 PM
Post by: barbie on September 01, 2014, 11:51:31 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 01, 2014, 11:22:49 AM
Hey!
It's been another few weeks... Just over 2 months now!
I haven't had a chance to do a video but here's my most recent sample.
https://soundcloud.com/hedstatic/olivia-010914
O x
Without doubt, it is a woman's voice. And it sounds beautiful.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 02, 2014, 04:18:36 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 02, 2014, 04:18:36 AM
Quote from: barbie on September 01, 2014, 11:51:31 PM
Without doubt, it is a woman's voice. And it sounds beautiful.
barbie~~
Thank you SO much Barbie!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 02, 2014, 04:19:00 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 02, 2014, 04:19:00 AM
Quote from: Shantel on September 01, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
Love your sweet voice Olivia, it's perfect and you sound just darling! :icon_bunch: :eusa_clap:
:) Thanks Shantel!!! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 02, 2014, 04:22:37 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 02, 2014, 04:22:37 AM
Hi girls!
So I've finally got my pre-op video from Jessie! :)
It's been really useful for me to hear as I completely forgot to make a recording before my surgery...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGENszqXrXI
So I've finally got my pre-op video from Jessie! :)
It's been really useful for me to hear as I completely forgot to make a recording before my surgery...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGENszqXrXI
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on September 02, 2014, 01:22:27 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on September 02, 2014, 01:22:27 PM
My head is completely bonkers :p Managed to answer in the wrong thread :)
@Livvykins: You sound totally awesome :D Such an huge improvements in just two months :)
Hitting the 2 month marker my self in 6 days, and I'm not even remotely close to that :/ Slow healer :p
@Livvykins: You sound totally awesome :D Such an huge improvements in just two months :)
Hitting the 2 month marker my self in 6 days, and I'm not even remotely close to that :/ Slow healer :p
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 11:54:11 AM
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 11:54:11 AM
Can someone give me an idea on the price for this procedure? I'm wanting to get it done and can't find a cost on the MD site.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on September 03, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on September 03, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
@Wynternight: The procedure was $7.300 and $400 for the botox :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 12:26:48 PM
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 12:26:48 PM
Quote from: MeganChristine on September 03, 2014, 12:16:39 PM
@Wynternight: The procedure was $7.300 and $400 for the botox :D
Cheers!! Time so start saving and planning. :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on September 03, 2014, 12:31:41 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on September 03, 2014, 12:31:41 PM
Good on you girl! :D
Did a test yesterday and got 192hz as an average :) So it's slowly rising :D
Did a test yesterday and got 192hz as an average :) So it's slowly rising :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 12:33:55 PM
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 12:33:55 PM
Quote from: MeganChristine on September 03, 2014, 12:31:41 PM
Good on you girl! :D
Did a test yesterday and got 192hz as an average :) So it's slowly rising :D
Outstanding! Congratulations!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 03, 2014, 05:34:13 PM
Post by: Livvykins on September 03, 2014, 05:34:13 PM
Hey lovelies!
Right I promise this will be the last video I post for a while!
This is my more official 2 month update video that I have to send Yeson. You can tell it's official because I bothered with some makeup this time, as Jessie wants to make a before/after vid for their channel from it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CedNbW-Oqm0&feature=youtu.be
O x
PS I'll post in the other thread as well. Not wanting to spam it around, but there are different people in each
Right I promise this will be the last video I post for a while!
This is my more official 2 month update video that I have to send Yeson. You can tell it's official because I bothered with some makeup this time, as Jessie wants to make a before/after vid for their channel from it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CedNbW-Oqm0&feature=youtu.be
O x
PS I'll post in the other thread as well. Not wanting to spam it around, but there are different people in each
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 05:40:03 PM
Post by: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 05:40:03 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 03, 2014, 05:34:13 PM
Hey lovelies!
Right I promise this will be the last video I post for a while!
This is my more official 2 month update video that I have to send Yeson. You can tell it's official because I bothered with some makeup this time, as Jessie wants to make a before/after vid for their channel from it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CedNbW-Oqm0&feature=youtu.be
O x
PS I'll post in the other thread as well. Not wanting to spam it around, but there are different people in each
You sound wonderful!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 07:52:04 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 07:52:04 AM
Quote from: Wynternight on September 03, 2014, 05:40:03 PM
You sound wonderful!!!
Thanks Wynternight, that's really kind! :) x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 07:52:39 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 07:52:39 AM
Question... Has anyone started taken the pills that were given to you by Yeson?
I'm getting the time that I was told to start taking them... I just googled what kind of drug they are, and I'm pretty worried about taking them... Has anyone had any negative effects? Clonazepam sounds pretty hardcore to me
I'm getting the time that I was told to start taking them... I just googled what kind of drug they are, and I'm pretty worried about taking them... Has anyone had any negative effects? Clonazepam sounds pretty hardcore to me
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on September 20, 2014, 10:15:14 AM
Post by: Wynternight on September 20, 2014, 10:15:14 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 07:52:39 AM
Question... Has anyone started taken the pills that were given to you by Yeson?
I'm getting the time that I was told to start taking them... I just googled what kind of drug they are, and I'm pretty worried about taking them... Has anyone had any negative effects? Clonazepam sounds pretty hardcore to me
Why does he put you on clonazepam?? I'm guessing for the muscle relaxant effects but it can cause pretty serious drowsiness. I use it as needed for insomnia and it knocks me out. How many mg does he prescribe?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 11:20:16 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 11:20:16 AM
Quote from: Wynternight on September 20, 2014, 10:15:14 AM
Why does he put you on clonazepam?? I'm guessing for the muscle relaxant effects but it can cause pretty serious drowsiness. I use it as needed for insomnia and it knocks me out. How many mg does he prescribe?
It's for when the Botox wears off after 3-4 months... I'm not sure if I need to start or not yet. He prescribes 0.5mg to be taken before bed. As you say it's to relax the vocal chord's if they need it. I'm hopeful that I won't need it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on September 20, 2014, 11:32:21 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on September 20, 2014, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 11:20:16 AM
It's for when the Botox wears off after 3-4 months... I'm not sure if I need to start or not yet. He prescribes 0.5mg to be taken before bed. As you say it's to relax the vocal chord's if they need it. I'm hopeful that I won't need it.
I'm guessing it helps mimic the effect of botox on an overnight basis? I've seen it knock people out before. My own theory is the botox/relaxation helps the muscles surrounding the vocal folds become less strong - imagine if you changed bass guitar strings into guitar strings, the supporting apparatus would need to be less taut as well.
Since moving cleanly across the break is a priority of mine, my thoughts are if I'm having issues around the voice break by the time botox wears off, I'll probably take said pills, but if I'm adapting well I'd likely pass on the prescription meds or improvise my own remedies.
(Hopefully getting my Yeson trip funded today or within the next week!)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on September 20, 2014, 01:04:14 PM
Post by: Wynternight on September 20, 2014, 01:04:14 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 11:20:16 AM
It's for when the Botox wears off after 3-4 months... I'm not sure if I need to start or not yet. He prescribes 0.5mg to be taken before bed. As you say it's to relax the vocal chord's if they need it. I'm hopeful that I won't need it.
0.5 before bed is reasonable. I take 2mg which is why it hits me so hard but 0.5 is a typical divided dose when it's taken as an anxiolytic. How long does he recommend you use it?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jmtl on September 20, 2014, 09:31:03 PM
Post by: Jmtl on September 20, 2014, 09:31:03 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 11:20:16 AM
It's for when the Botox wears off after 3-4 months... I'm not sure if I need to start or not yet. He prescribes 0.5mg to be taken before bed. As you say it's to relax the vocal chord's if they need it. I'm hopeful that I won't need it.
Hey livvy! I have been taking it for few days now, and it really knocks me out, thats why they told u just to take it before bed time. ☺️ But its been helpful for the voice. My voice starts cracking and the hoarseness.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 21, 2014, 07:14:35 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 21, 2014, 07:14:35 AM
Quote from: Jmtl on September 20, 2014, 09:31:03 PM
Hey livvy! I have been taking it for few days now, and it really knocks me out, thats why they told u just to take it before bed time. ☺️ But its been helpful for the voice. My voice starts cracking and the hoarseness.
thanks Jmtl, that's good to know! :)
So it doesn't seem to affect your mood or make you tired the next day?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jmtl on September 21, 2014, 08:50:42 AM
Post by: Jmtl on September 21, 2014, 08:50:42 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 21, 2014, 07:14:35 AM
thanks Jmtl, that's good to know! :)
So it doesn't seem to affect your mood or make you tired the next day?
Well, its been a week today since i started. And i dont feel any changes or tiredness at all, i even read all the side effects of it but i didnt have it yet and hoping will not. and i guess probably because its such a low dosage. But we'll see for the next coming days. Haha i'll let u know. Xoxo
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on September 23, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on September 23, 2014, 05:33:15 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 11:20:16 AMHi Livvy. Voices from Yeson all seem to have a remarkable clarity. I'm wondering if a lot of this is due to the botox, and whether the voice becomes less clear again after the botox wears off and the tablets run out?
It's for when the Botox wears off after 3-4 months... I'm not sure if I need to start or not yet. He prescribes 0.5mg to be taken before bed. As you say it's to relax the vocal chord's if they need it. I'm hopeful that I won't need it.
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Ali on September 24, 2014, 02:53:56 AM
Post by: Ali on September 24, 2014, 02:53:56 AM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 20, 2014, 07:52:39 AM
Question... Has anyone started taken the pills that were given to you by Yeson?
I'm getting the time that I was told to start taking them... I just googled what kind of drug they are, and I'm pretty worried about taking them... Has anyone had any negative effects? Clonazepam sounds pretty hardcore to me
they are anti-anxiety pills, It is strange why would it be helpful in relaxing vocal muscles.
I was given those for anxiety control, they are powerful and you need to know that they kinda numb you. I would say keep them to the minimum and never drink with them as the effect of alcohol will intensify.
You sound wonderful :icon_bunch:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on September 24, 2014, 03:43:13 AM
Post by: anjaq on September 24, 2014, 03:43:13 AM
Quote from: Teslagirl on September 23, 2014, 05:33:15 PMThis is what i eorry about as well. Most recordings here were done in the first months wit botox or pills in effect. There are a few who have longer experience in the range of 6 months plus. As i understand it, the voice really gets a bit rougher at that time the botox wears off and then the pills. It probably helps a lot to have a good voice for that time to start with and getting used to that good voice, the voice exercises should then take over as step 3 after botox and pills. At least this is my impression. They all seem to act against tension in different ways and strength
Hi Livvy. Voices from Yeson all seem to have a remarkable clarity. I'm wondering if a lot of this is due to the botox, and whether the voice becomes less clear again after the botox wears off and the tablets run out?
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 29, 2014, 06:08:46 PM
Post by: Livvykins on September 29, 2014, 06:08:46 PM
Hey everyone!
Time is going so quickly...
Here's my 3 month post op vid :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dWgaKFy1e9I
Time is going so quickly...
Here's my 3 month post op vid :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dWgaKFy1e9I
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on September 29, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Post by: Shantel on September 29, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on September 29, 2014, 06:08:46 PM
Hey everyone!
Time is going so quickly...
Here's my 3 month post op vid :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dWgaKFy1e9I
Olivia,
You sound sweeter and more feminine than 99% of cis females, I love your accent and could listen to you all day long. You come across as a darling woman!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on September 30, 2014, 09:24:10 AM
Post by: Livvykins on September 30, 2014, 09:24:10 AM
Quote from: Shantel on September 29, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Olivia,
You sound sweeter and more feminine than 99% of cis females, I love your accent and could listen to you all day long. You come across as a darling woman!
AW, you've just made my day Shantel! :) Thank you, that's very kind! x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Mai on October 25, 2014, 11:03:24 PM
Post by: Mai on October 25, 2014, 11:03:24 PM
hi all, just finished reading through the whole thread. i have not been able to start hormones yet (for various reasons) but ive started to work twords transitioning and working on my voice already. and this surgery sounds very interesting for when ill be able to afford it. a few people (jenny in particular) mentioned singing a few times, which for me as a musician is a major outlet of enjoyment in my life, was wondering if anyone who has had this done might be able to make a video or recording of themselves singing something after having healed enough to do so? and how long did it take afterwards.
i love singing along with female lines, but i try not to use falsetto. mmm, my normal range runs from ~G2 and breaks around E4/F4. usually sing around or just under C4 quite a few lower pitched female singers i sing along with always have that 1 note in the melody that i just cant hit and i have to sing a harmony note. normal speech seems to be around mmm, E3/F3 ~170hz. but id love to be able to have a higher singing voice as well.
and wow, the difference in speaking pitches. such a massive improvement. even where your voice sounds feminine before surgery, afterwards, there is no mistaking it imo.
i love singing along with female lines, but i try not to use falsetto. mmm, my normal range runs from ~G2 and breaks around E4/F4. usually sing around or just under C4 quite a few lower pitched female singers i sing along with always have that 1 note in the melody that i just cant hit and i have to sing a harmony note. normal speech seems to be around mmm, E3/F3 ~170hz. but id love to be able to have a higher singing voice as well.
and wow, the difference in speaking pitches. such a massive improvement. even where your voice sounds feminine before surgery, afterwards, there is no mistaking it imo.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 26, 2014, 06:32:52 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 26, 2014, 06:32:52 PM
Amy Berlin does sing post op and she did a recording of it, I dont know if anyone else did one.
Also I found this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJuZmB_5rLU which is not that great though as she is just barely at the time to be allowed to sing.
Also I found this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJuZmB_5rLU which is not that great though as she is just barely at the time to be allowed to sing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on October 27, 2014, 12:33:25 AM
Post by: divineintervention on October 27, 2014, 12:33:25 AM
I have a question: will you feel like there is some foreign substance or just weird feeling in your throat after the surgery?
Thanks
Thanks
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on October 27, 2014, 06:52:35 AM
Post by: Livvykins on October 27, 2014, 06:52:35 AM
Quote from: divineintervention on October 27, 2014, 12:33:25 AM
I have a question: will you feel like there is some foreign substance or just weird feeling in your throat after the surgery?
Thanks
It does occasionally feel like you've got a lump in your throat... that goes though. It's not permanent.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 27, 2014, 04:48:37 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 27, 2014, 04:48:37 PM
Will that get better with time or will this always come and go?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on October 27, 2014, 04:54:46 PM
Post by: Livvykins on October 27, 2014, 04:54:46 PM
Quote from: anjaq on October 27, 2014, 04:48:37 PM
Will that get better with time or will this always come and go?
Well fingers crossed it won't stay... I think it happens when the Botox wears off... That would be about the right time period for me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on October 29, 2014, 06:33:00 AM
Post by: divineintervention on October 29, 2014, 06:33:00 AM
Have you asked others this question? People who have done it in the past? Would you kindly share if so?
Thanks! Think i might just go ahead and make a booking if the side effects are minimal.
Thanks! Think i might just go ahead and make a booking if the side effects are minimal.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on October 29, 2014, 05:46:18 PM
Post by: voodle on October 29, 2014, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on October 27, 2014, 04:54:46 PM
Well fingers crossed it won't stay... I think it happens when the Botox wears off... That would be about the right time period for me.
It goes after long enough :)
I do find that phlegm builds up in my throat quite frequently though, to the point where I have to cough some up every day regardless of if I'm ill or not. I wonder if anyone else has this or just me? I think it's quite possible due to the change in how the vocal folds sit and who knows, maybe I'm still using my voice wrong?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 29, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
Post by: anjaq on October 29, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
Hey voodle. How did things turn out for you. Its a long time now since VFS. Did everything really turn out good in the end and how is the voice now? Effortless and feminine as it should be?
I can imagine that due to the "pocket" under the sutured area, there can be some more phlegm collecting?
I can imagine that due to the "pocket" under the sutured area, there can be some more phlegm collecting?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 30, 2014, 02:51:51 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 30, 2014, 02:51:51 AM
no phlegm and no throat sensation for me, all good after month 6 or so... hard to remember exactly when.
My voice is still improving. Not in pitch or sound quality so much as strength and stamina. I can talk for a lot longer without it feeling fatigued. I noticed just the other day that I don't lose my voice anymore like I used to after a night of heavy talking.
My voice is still improving. Not in pitch or sound quality so much as strength and stamina. I can talk for a lot longer without it feeling fatigued. I noticed just the other day that I don't lose my voice anymore like I used to after a night of heavy talking.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2014, 02:59:15 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2014, 02:59:15 AM
Sounds great Jenny :) - My voice sucks after an evening out without surgery, so if that would stay, its not a difference :P ;)
But I think it may depend on the healing. Some seem to heal less quickly and take a longer time, others are really fast.
But I think it may depend on the healing. Some seem to heal less quickly and take a longer time, others are really fast.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on October 30, 2014, 06:16:37 AM
Post by: voodle on October 30, 2014, 06:16:37 AM
Quote from: anjaq on October 29, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
Hey voodle. How did things turn out for you. Its a long time now since VFS. Did everything really turn out good in the end and how is the voice now? Effortless and feminine as it should be?
haha well, I'm happy with my voice now in that I'm not getting misgendered on the phone so much and it works how I want it to and I'm more comfortable with how I sound, I guess my voice sounds feminine though it's hardly effortless since my brain keeps putting it back to the wrong voice if I don't do some occasional practise to keep the tone in the right place. I was scared a few months ago because I got quite ill and a bad coughing fit put my pitch back to what it was prior to the surgery but it seems to have gone back up again. I talked to Jessie and considered visiting Korea again so they could have a look but I don't have the money at the moment, nor enough money to go see a speech therapist; fitting it in around work and the cost of the initial consultation, I have other cash priorities at the moment.
The clonazepam also improved my voice quite a bit but I had to stop taking it for medical reasons and it ran out and I had to re-learn how to sound good after that, which I think I've done so now :)
Quote
I can imagine that due to the "pocket" under the sutured area, there can be some more phlegm collecting?
The phlegm thing is weird and I don't know who to talk to about it. I see it being like that but I wonder if I've even healed up 100%? It's hard to tell really.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on October 30, 2014, 06:23:06 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on October 30, 2014, 06:23:06 AM
Since the membrane Dr. Kim removes is a mucous membrane, it could be that other parts of the body have to compensate for moistening the vocal folds. You could start with getting scoped and mention that.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2014, 07:58:16 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2014, 07:58:16 AM
Quote from: voodle on October 30, 2014, 06:16:37 AMOk, but that is more about sound and resonance? Pitch should be changed now without effort, right?
I guess my voice sounds feminine though it's hardly effortless since my brain keeps putting it back to the wrong voice if I don't do some occasional practise to keep the tone in the right place.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on October 30, 2014, 09:44:11 AM
Post by: voodle on October 30, 2014, 09:44:11 AM
Yep, the pitch has settled upwards definitely, I was checking this last night and it seems that no effort talking seems to be around 220hz average with how I speak now and me trying to speak as low as I can (which was weird), is around 160hz. I suppose maybe I just take quite a long time to heal up from things.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2014, 10:01:09 AM
Post by: anjaq on October 30, 2014, 10:01:09 AM
Sounds perfect. 220 Hz is the goal for many. If that goes effortless and 160 is the lowest, this is probably beyond the 75 Hz Dr Kim says, or was it 150 Hz average in relaxed mode pre op?
The other things - resonance/tone and way of speaking/prosody - I think you will get used to it so it becomes second nature with time. As you dont need the effort now to also raise pitch, I would guess it may even be a bit easier now for you to get these right than pre op.
The other things - resonance/tone and way of speaking/prosody - I think you will get used to it so it becomes second nature with time. As you dont need the effort now to also raise pitch, I would guess it may even be a bit easier now for you to get these right than pre op.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on October 31, 2014, 02:15:13 AM
Post by: ElleA on October 31, 2014, 02:15:13 AM
Hi ladies,
I had a quick question about those of you who have had a pre and post op video posted by Yeson to youtube.
Did they ask you if this was ok first and did you get some kind of kickback for it, eg. money or discount to the surgery?
Just curious... ;)
I had a quick question about those of you who have had a pre and post op video posted by Yeson to youtube.
Did they ask you if this was ok first and did you get some kind of kickback for it, eg. money or discount to the surgery?
Just curious... ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 31, 2014, 02:44:43 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 31, 2014, 02:44:43 AM
I did a video just for the heck of it because I saw the somewhat unknown procedure (at the time) as something that a lot of people might benefit from.. and with the sole intention of sharing how it changed my life. If I remember correctly, it was after about a month that Jessie contacted me and offered me some money back if they could use the video on their website. I was ecstatic that they liked it so much to want to use it as part of their portfolio, but never expected anything back except for a thank you. Then they offered me another bonus for a year post op video (which I still haven't done yet).
I actually recorded one the other night, but it was late and I floundered around in some of my responses to the questions when my cat decided to puke right in front of me.. LOL. I'll probably do it again sometime in the next week or so, which should be almost exactly at the 1.5yr mark.
I'm super happy with my voice these days. I've had several freelance jobs and pass like there's no tomorrow- it's not even a thing that I think about at all unless I work with someone that knew me before transition. It hasn't been a big deal for anyone in that regard either, I'm getting called in by previous clients now more than ever. Such a dream. Couldn't have done it without the forums here and without Dr. Kim.
I kinda want to practice some singing because one of the parts they want me to do in the interview is sing, but you guys... I haven't used my singing voice in prob about 10 years. It's embarrassing, haha. I dunno if I will even try, especially with always being a little shy about my singing voice even before the surgery. Needless to say I have never done karaoke and likely never will ;) sorry if that disappoints. Hopefully there are enough other examples out there to satiate people's questions about singing post op.
I actually recorded one the other night, but it was late and I floundered around in some of my responses to the questions when my cat decided to puke right in front of me.. LOL. I'll probably do it again sometime in the next week or so, which should be almost exactly at the 1.5yr mark.
I'm super happy with my voice these days. I've had several freelance jobs and pass like there's no tomorrow- it's not even a thing that I think about at all unless I work with someone that knew me before transition. It hasn't been a big deal for anyone in that regard either, I'm getting called in by previous clients now more than ever. Such a dream. Couldn't have done it without the forums here and without Dr. Kim.
I kinda want to practice some singing because one of the parts they want me to do in the interview is sing, but you guys... I haven't used my singing voice in prob about 10 years. It's embarrassing, haha. I dunno if I will even try, especially with always being a little shy about my singing voice even before the surgery. Needless to say I have never done karaoke and likely never will ;) sorry if that disappoints. Hopefully there are enough other examples out there to satiate people's questions about singing post op.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on October 31, 2014, 03:10:12 PM
Post by: ElleA on October 31, 2014, 03:10:12 PM
Cool thanks Jenny, I was thinking that I would probably document it all either way. Just for my own and others interest. But if they will give you a little cash back that would be awesome. It's a great way to offset the costs of the surgery.
I can't believe I am actually booked in now. It's all quite exciting.
I can't believe I am actually booked in now. It's all quite exciting.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on October 31, 2014, 10:52:24 PM
Post by: divineintervention on October 31, 2014, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on October 31, 2014, 02:44:43 AM
I did a video just for the heck of it because I saw the somewhat unknown procedure (at the time) as something that a lot of people might benefit from.. and with the sole intention of sharing how it changed my life. If I remember correctly, it was after about a month that Jessie contacted me and offered me some money back if they could use the video on their website. I was ecstatic that they liked it so much to want to use it as part of their portfolio, but never expected anything back except for a thank you. Then they offered me another bonus for a year post op video (which I still haven't done yet).
I actually recorded one the other night, but it was late and I floundered around in some of my responses to the questions when my cat decided to puke right in front of me.. LOL. I'll probably do it again sometime in the next week or so, which should be almost exactly at the 1.5yr mark.
I'm super happy with my voice these days. I've had several freelance jobs and pass like there's no tomorrow- it's not even a thing that I think about at all unless I work with someone that knew me before transition. It hasn't been a big deal for anyone in that regard either, I'm getting called in by previous clients now more than ever. Such a dream. Couldn't have done it without the forums here and without Dr. Kim.
I kinda want to practice some singing because one of the parts they want me to do in the interview is sing, but you guys... I haven't used my singing voice in prob about 10 years. It's embarrassing, haha. I dunno if I will even try, especially with always being a little shy about my singing voice even before the surgery. Needless to say I have never done karaoke and likely never will ;) sorry if that disappoints. Hopefully there are enough other examples out there to satiate people's questions about singing post op.
Hi jenny! sorry to probe but do you consciously feel like there is something in your throat? like can you actually feel like there's a scar? Thank you!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on October 31, 2014, 11:31:07 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on October 31, 2014, 11:31:07 PM
Yes congrats Elle! It's a major milestone for sure. Good lord, probably the hugest one of my transition so far!
divineintervention- no I don't have any sensation like that at all. Nadda. At first I did, it probably lasted me 1.5 to 2 months by the time it was gone. It's hard to remember. Not anymore though, not since I can remember. I also had a cold right when I got home and attributed some of it to that. The only sensation I had was phlegm.. Almost like a post nasal drip. Could have been the cold.
My year checkup with the ENT in Los Angeles showed a perfect healing of the surgical site. She was blown away with how clean it looked, said that she had never seen anterior web creation done so meticulously. I had a very good heal. I was also extremely (almost excessively) careful about my recovery
divineintervention- no I don't have any sensation like that at all. Nadda. At first I did, it probably lasted me 1.5 to 2 months by the time it was gone. It's hard to remember. Not anymore though, not since I can remember. I also had a cold right when I got home and attributed some of it to that. The only sensation I had was phlegm.. Almost like a post nasal drip. Could have been the cold.
My year checkup with the ENT in Los Angeles showed a perfect healing of the surgical site. She was blown away with how clean it looked, said that she had never seen anterior web creation done so meticulously. I had a very good heal. I was also extremely (almost excessively) careful about my recovery
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: celinemealone on November 01, 2014, 10:35:06 PM
Post by: celinemealone on November 01, 2014, 10:35:06 PM
Hello every one, I am a new member in this forum and have just begin HRT for 2 months.
I just have a few question in mind about YESON. Recently I have had my first surgery to reduce the prominence of my adams apple and during the consultation with a ENT and Head and Neck surgeon in Melbourne, Australia. I asked about the procedure i would like to get done at Yeson and showed him the website, it came to my surprise that he states that this was a old "2 minute" procedure and should not worth $8000. I was pretty sure about Yeson until now and is considering doing this with the same ENT surgeon, but I am quite concerned of the result since i reckon less people know about this place than Yeson. I hope some one here have some info about the procedure and can help me with my decision :'(
I just have a few question in mind about YESON. Recently I have had my first surgery to reduce the prominence of my adams apple and during the consultation with a ENT and Head and Neck surgeon in Melbourne, Australia. I asked about the procedure i would like to get done at Yeson and showed him the website, it came to my surprise that he states that this was a old "2 minute" procedure and should not worth $8000. I was pretty sure about Yeson until now and is considering doing this with the same ENT surgeon, but I am quite concerned of the result since i reckon less people know about this place than Yeson. I hope some one here have some info about the procedure and can help me with my decision :'(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 12:57:43 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 12:57:43 AM
As I understand it (I'm no doctor/surgeon) is that the goal of "anterior web formation" is the same. To fuse part of the vocal folds together, effectively shortening them.
The difference is the technique involved. ENT's are familiar with using lasers to fuse, but Dr. Kim employs a microscalpel (that he apparently designed himself) and permanent sutures. I think with his method there is less risk of uneven fusing and damage to surrounding tissue which could lead to weaker voice due to uneven tensions on either side. I might be a little off base here, so take it worth a grain of salt from me.
Your best bet would be to email Jessie at Yeson and ask her directly what sets Yeson apart from other ENT surgeons familiar with the anterior web creation procedure.
As I just said a few posts back, the ENT I saw in Los Angeles for my 1 year checkup said that it was indeed a common procedure. However she also stated that it seemed to have been done with such precision that she had never really seen anything like it. I mean literally you could not even see that anything had been done (not even a scar line visible where they were fused). There are thousands of ENT's out there, but do you want to go to the one who has never performed a feminization surgery for MtF or the one who has researched and developed his/her technique around it?
Obviously the call is up to you, but I would contact Jessie. Please share back here, because I am interested as well! :) Good luck!
The difference is the technique involved. ENT's are familiar with using lasers to fuse, but Dr. Kim employs a microscalpel (that he apparently designed himself) and permanent sutures. I think with his method there is less risk of uneven fusing and damage to surrounding tissue which could lead to weaker voice due to uneven tensions on either side. I might be a little off base here, so take it worth a grain of salt from me.
Your best bet would be to email Jessie at Yeson and ask her directly what sets Yeson apart from other ENT surgeons familiar with the anterior web creation procedure.
As I just said a few posts back, the ENT I saw in Los Angeles for my 1 year checkup said that it was indeed a common procedure. However she also stated that it seemed to have been done with such precision that she had never really seen anything like it. I mean literally you could not even see that anything had been done (not even a scar line visible where they were fused). There are thousands of ENT's out there, but do you want to go to the one who has never performed a feminization surgery for MtF or the one who has researched and developed his/her technique around it?
Obviously the call is up to you, but I would contact Jessie. Please share back here, because I am interested as well! :) Good luck!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 02, 2014, 01:18:55 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 02, 2014, 01:18:55 AM
Hi celinemealone, just a question. Was it Neil Valance by any chance. I saw him and was told the same thing.
I ended up doing a lot of research and asking a friend from Adelaide who is also a ENT and she said that the 2 minute procedure is not the same and that they don't suture in the same way as Dr Kim. Similar to what Jenny said the procedures that are approved in Australia use lasers. Neil is grate for tracheal shaves and many other ENT procedures but yeson is far more effective and safe in terms of damage.
My ENT friend is actually the reason I choose Yeson, well that and the results of Jenny and Sarah. She went to a couple of conferences that dr Kim presented at and said that his technique is impressive and there is nothing else like it.
I ended up doing a lot of research and asking a friend from Adelaide who is also a ENT and she said that the 2 minute procedure is not the same and that they don't suture in the same way as Dr Kim. Similar to what Jenny said the procedures that are approved in Australia use lasers. Neil is grate for tracheal shaves and many other ENT procedures but yeson is far more effective and safe in terms of damage.
My ENT friend is actually the reason I choose Yeson, well that and the results of Jenny and Sarah. She went to a couple of conferences that dr Kim presented at and said that his technique is impressive and there is nothing else like it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 01:31:39 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 01:31:39 AM
Thanks for the info Elle! That doesn't really surprise me and appreciate you sharing the info.
Sounds like that ENT would benefit from a sit-in on one of Dr. Kim's conference lectures ;)
Sounds like that ENT would benefit from a sit-in on one of Dr. Kim's conference lectures ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: celinemealone on November 02, 2014, 04:27:53 AM
Post by: celinemealone on November 02, 2014, 04:27:53 AM
:D thank you for your answers, I really appreciated it Jenny and Elle!!
and yes it was indeed Dr. Vallance who I saw, i chose him over a plastic surgeon in Brisbane for my tracheal shave and I am quite happy with the front view, however from side view it is still quite bumpy (i am really skinny and used to have prominent fat trachea :( ) , which i am kinda worry about.
as for my VFS the definite answer now would be YESON ;)
and yes it was indeed Dr. Vallance who I saw, i chose him over a plastic surgeon in Brisbane for my tracheal shave and I am quite happy with the front view, however from side view it is still quite bumpy (i am really skinny and used to have prominent fat trachea :( ) , which i am kinda worry about.
as for my VFS the definite answer now would be YESON ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 02, 2014, 05:12:01 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 02, 2014, 05:12:01 AM
As i understand it the principle of the procedure dates back to the 1980ies (Wendler glottoplasty) when it was still performed via a neck incision. There is a study from Dr Gross in Berlin from 1999, who performed it on several "transgender patients" and reports the results, which ware somwhat mixed (great variation in the pitch increase, in all cases a loss in volume and a higher dysphonia index). AFAIK they use scalpes and dissolving thread. Later the method was improved more, they then used lasers and stitches with dissolving threads. One thing that seems to persist is the higher dysphonia index (hoarseness, breathiness) and the loss of volume as well as an unpredictability of the pitch increase. I contacted the Clinic in Stuttgart who do the procedure but they said something like a pitch increase of maybe 4 semitones with a 40% closure of the vocal fold opening would be possible. The doctors following Dr Gross in Berlin (he himself does not seem to do this now) apparently tell patients that there is a 1:1:1 chance that it get better:same:worse than before. Amy_Berlin from this forum was at Yeson and showed the doctirs in Berlin her result and apparently they were so impressed that they see little scarring that they want to learn this technique. This apparently sets Dr Kim at Yeson apart from the others. He uses scalpels again and not laser, which seems to be more reliable, especially if he has as Jenny said, done some development on them. He uses permanent sutures which probably allow the sutures to be more stable during the long healing phase (dissolving sutures are gone afte a few weeks when the healing still is not finished completely) and may also just help along in the later times. He also places the sutures differently than other surgeons, not touching the active part of the vocal folds. The rest seems to be mainly experience and precision. With 350+ procedures done he is able to make the sutures very precisely parallel and avoid scarring. The scarring is what makes the dysphonia, uneven sutures make the voice unstable or cause diplophonia. Also he amazingly is able to estimate very well the increase in pitch for each patient and also he seem to manage to increase pitch by 75 Hz, that is about 7 semitones with a 33% suture, which is a higher rate than I read from any of the others.
So I believe that others can learn from him and his long experience. Sadly many ENTs seem to operate on the voice just 3 times a year and then claim it is easy but it is not a good option. I met one of them recently for a consultation. I was horrified at the idea that someone does a procedure 3 times a year - he can never have the experience needed. You would not go to a GRS surgeon who has done this 10 times over the past 5 years or so.
However I agree that the costs clearly are not a matter of how much time is needed. $7000 for a 30 minute surgery plus examination is quite a lot in terms of hourly costs, but you are not paying for the time but for the precision and experience. A FFS or GRS may take only 4-5 hours but you also pay 20k for it.
Greetings
So I believe that others can learn from him and his long experience. Sadly many ENTs seem to operate on the voice just 3 times a year and then claim it is easy but it is not a good option. I met one of them recently for a consultation. I was horrified at the idea that someone does a procedure 3 times a year - he can never have the experience needed. You would not go to a GRS surgeon who has done this 10 times over the past 5 years or so.
However I agree that the costs clearly are not a matter of how much time is needed. $7000 for a 30 minute surgery plus examination is quite a lot in terms of hourly costs, but you are not paying for the time but for the precision and experience. A FFS or GRS may take only 4-5 hours but you also pay 20k for it.
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 12:57:43 AMIf there is a reply to that, I would love to read it and would hope it can be shared here, as this would really be good to have - we are just puzzling stuff together , but a clear statement of Dr Kim about what he is doing differently would be a really good thing to have.
Your best bet would be to email Jessie at Yeson and ask her directly what sets Yeson apart from other ENT surgeons familiar with the anterior web creation procedure.
Greetings
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 09:49:52 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 09:49:52 AM
Quote from: anjaq on November 02, 2014, 05:12:01 AM
However I agree that the costs clearly are not a matter of how much time is needed. $7000 for a 30 minute surgery plus examination is quite a lot in terms of hourly costs, but you are not paying for the time but for the precision and experience. A FFS or GRS may take only 4-5 hours but you also pay 20k for it.
To me, this procedure is priceless in a way- I never felt it was too expensive. I'm sure many women feel the same about their GRS or FFS.
The only reason I could see it being too expensive is if the person simply has zero way to afford it ever. In that case it would be nice to see them offer somewhat of a sliding scale. However, I think Dr. Kim probably has enough work as it is.
A much better idea would be for him to train some other surgeons in different parts of the world, spreading his technique to other areas and making this treatment more available.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on November 02, 2014, 10:23:59 AM
Post by: Jessika on November 02, 2014, 10:23:59 AM
I was wondering if I went to Korea to have the procedure done in the future, does flying at high altitude have any effects on the vocal cords after the procedure?
Is it ok to fly?
Thanks
Is it ok to fly?
Thanks
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 11:19:13 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 11:19:13 AM
Yes you'll be fine. If anything I was more worried about the clotting risks associated with HRT.
The surgical site is very very small.. I believe an average of 2-5mm in size.
On long flights I usually try to get up and move about the cabin every 90 minutes or so. An aisle seat is helpful for this. If no aisle seat, you can always do calf pumps while sitting in your seat and bend your legs around frequently. I do it on every flight just in case.
The surgical site is very very small.. I believe an average of 2-5mm in size.
On long flights I usually try to get up and move about the cabin every 90 minutes or so. An aisle seat is helpful for this. If no aisle seat, you can always do calf pumps while sitting in your seat and bend your legs around frequently. I do it on every flight just in case.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on November 02, 2014, 11:38:48 AM
Post by: Jessika on November 02, 2014, 11:38:48 AM
I am 47, going on 48 in Jan, 6 ft tall weigh 205 lbs and dropping slowly.
I have a fear of the clotting risks as I am more than likely starting hormones within the next 3 months. I walk about 5 miles a day, not sure if that would help.
I have a fear of the clotting risks as I am more than likely starting hormones within the next 3 months. I walk about 5 miles a day, not sure if that would help.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 11:42:25 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 02, 2014, 11:42:25 AM
It probably does help, I would check in with your endocrinologist about the long flights though. It's a good idea to hear what they think.
Sorry I can't be more of help, I'm not going to pretend to give you medical advice ;)
Sorry I can't be more of help, I'm not going to pretend to give you medical advice ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on November 02, 2014, 01:16:39 PM
Post by: Wynternight on November 02, 2014, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: Jessika on November 02, 2014, 11:38:48 AM
I am 47, going on 48 in Jan, 6 ft tall weigh 205 lbs and dropping slowly.
I have a fear of the clotting risks as I am more than likely starting hormones within the next 3 months. I walk about 5 miles a day, not sure if that would help.
Staying active and walking is the best way to avoid venostasis and the concurrent risk of DVT.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 02, 2014, 06:43:47 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 02, 2014, 06:43:47 PM
If you are on pills (spiro, androcur, estradiol tablets), I think the risk of DVT is higher than when on patches or gel. So that may be an idea to avoid risks there.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 02, 2014, 07:20:07 PM
Post by: ElleA on November 02, 2014, 07:20:07 PM
I use to do a lot of travelling and when I was doing any long haul flights I would always swap to patches about 3-4 weeks before flying. That was what my endo recommended
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 08:34:58 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 08:34:58 AM
I have the conviction that if it is better for flights, why should I return to something more harmful when back ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nicolette on November 03, 2014, 09:00:59 AM
Post by: Nicolette on November 03, 2014, 09:00:59 AM
The last time I was on a long flight, I got up and walked about at least every hour. And then whilst sitting, I'd make sure I was exercising my calves. It was the first time that I did not experience swollen feet or ankles. So I recommend being active in flight. But a 5 mile walk in flight may not be viewed in as positive light by other passengers. :laugh:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 09:08:51 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 09:08:51 AM
So I'm seriously mapping this as part of my transition. Voice is a very important part of my plan.
I am diabetic but not that bad (A1C below 7 and controlled). I also may have to on occasion use my voice for 24-48 hours straight, but I realize that I can't do this early on in the healing process. I'm 36 and starting HRT soon.
Does Dr Kim say anything about the above?
I am diabetic but not that bad (A1C below 7 and controlled). I also may have to on occasion use my voice for 24-48 hours straight, but I realize that I can't do this early on in the healing process. I'm 36 and starting HRT soon.
Does Dr Kim say anything about the above?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 10:12:58 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 10:12:58 AM
Just ask them, write a mail to Jessie ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on November 03, 2014, 10:20:00 AM
Post by: Wynternight on November 03, 2014, 10:20:00 AM
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 09:08:51 AM
So I'm seriously mapping this as part of my transition. Voice is a very important part of my plan.
I am diabetic but not that bad (A1C below 7 and controlled). I also may have to on occasion use my voice for 24-48 hours straight, but I realize that I can't do this early on in the healing process. I'm 36 and starting HRT soon.
Does Dr Kim say anything about the above?
In general surgeons like your A1C to be below the 6.9 mark because wound healing is slower in poorly-controlled diabetes.
Judging by what everyone here has said you have a month where you can't talk at all and another month where your use must be limited so I believe it's not until month three that you can go back to normal use.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 10:28:04 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 10:28:04 AM
Quote from: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 10:12:58 AM
Just ask them, write a mail to Jessie ;)
I did. Got an autoresponse that says she won't be back until November 9.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 10:31:30 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 10:31:30 AM
Quote from: Wynternight on November 03, 2014, 10:20:00 AM
In general surgeons like your A1C to be below the 6.9 mark because wound healing is slower in poorly-controlled diabetes.
Judging by what everyone here has said you have a month where you can't talk at all and another month where your use must be limited so I believe it's not until month three that you can go back to normal use.
That's not a problem for me. My A1C is actually in the normal range (around 5) but only because I watch what I eat and exercise. However if I go off overeating and gaining weight it can shoot up to almost 8.0. Now that I'm preparing for transition I'm actually being quite a good girl, eating healthy and my weight is dropping rather quickly so I should be pretty healthy in preparation for everything that I need to do.
I basically want to time it so I'm not taking part in any ham radio activities for at least a couple of months, but I can send morse code anyway without my voice. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 03, 2014, 06:07:34 PM
Post by: ElleA on November 03, 2014, 06:07:34 PM
Quote from: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 08:34:58 AM
I have the conviction that if it is better for flights, why should I return to something more harmful when back ;)
The reason would be that patches don't offer the same dosages as other methods. I'm actually on pellets now and god they are the best thing ever. I feel so level and have so much energy. Plus I don't have the ups and downs of not taking the pills at exactly the right time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 03, 2014, 06:08:54 PM
Post by: ElleA on November 03, 2014, 06:08:54 PM
Just a note that Jessie is on holidays. I booked in just before she left.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 06:10:16 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 06:10:16 PM
Pellets are those implants? (sorry for the offtopic)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 07:31:13 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: anjaq on November 03, 2014, 06:10:16 PM
Pellets are those implants? (sorry for the offtopic)
Yes
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 04, 2014, 02:50:44 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 04, 2014, 02:50:44 AM
Hey ^^;!! I had my VFS on October 3rd!! Now I'm up to the point of "Short Conversations" on month 2. I was just wondering if any of you who've had it, ever spoke a little too much, and what happened? I tend to talk a bit much, and I think what happens is the voice just gets weaker and pitch lowers a bit, but after rest it goes back up? Ugh.. it's so confusing! And bad bad me for talking a bit too much :S! I'm just so satisfied that I sometimes get a bit excited...
And I'm a little new here, sorry for the intrusion in the conversations... just thought I'd ask others who've had it done :)!
And I'm a little new here, sorry for the intrusion in the conversations... just thought I'd ask others who've had it done :)!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on November 04, 2014, 03:42:02 AM
Post by: mk854 on November 04, 2014, 03:42:02 AM
Hello Friends,
Is anyone of you girls planning to go to Yeson in the middle of January from USA? I am planning to go alone on Jan 17' 2015 from New York and just scared. I would appreciate your company for traveling and sharing room with you. I am a Nurse working in NY.
Michelle
Is anyone of you girls planning to go to Yeson in the middle of January from USA? I am planning to go alone on Jan 17' 2015 from New York and just scared. I would appreciate your company for traveling and sharing room with you. I am a Nurse working in NY.
Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 04, 2014, 04:23:19 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 04, 2014, 04:23:19 AM
Hi Michelle, an Aussie here I am heading there just after you, for the 1st of February.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 04, 2014, 04:17:09 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 04, 2014, 04:17:09 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 04, 2014, 02:50:44 AMSounds good. I think you should really restrain yourself from speaking too much too early. Otherwise it may take longer until the voice is back to normal abilities. Are you doing audio recordings and would you like to share them with us at some point? Its always good to have more people showing how things turned out for them.
Hey ^^;!! I had my VFS on October 3rd!! I'm just so satisfied that I sometimes get a bit excited...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on November 04, 2014, 04:21:18 PM
Post by: Jessika on November 04, 2014, 04:21:18 PM
Don't know if posting prices is allowed here but could anyone who is going PM me the prices/statistics of Yeson please, in USD? Thank you.:)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 04, 2014, 09:27:28 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 04, 2014, 09:27:28 PM
Quote from: anjaq on November 04, 2014, 04:17:09 PM
Sounds good. I think you should really restrain yourself from speaking too much too early. Otherwise it may take longer until the voice is back to normal abilities. Are you doing audio recordings and would you like to share them with us at some point? Its always good to have more people showing how things turned out for them.
Oh ya totally. Actually I gave Yeson full permission to post my before and after, but I can put together a quick before and after for you guys to see :)!! <3
Edit:
Here's a before and after! For this who have little knowledge of who I am, I've made somewhat of an impact in the video game world with my music in Dance Dance Revolution, so many people were sad that I was going to rid myself of the voice I didn't feel comfortable with. However they were happy for me and gave me full support too! Onto new things I say!
Anyways, sappy story aside, here is me just 2 days before surgery and 1 month later (1 day ahead of schedual for short convos...) I know I know.. bad J-Mi! Can you blame the excitement though!?
I really hope to inspire others into thinking more about what they want to be happy :)! I also want to hopefully rid doctors around here of that nightmare surgery they have drilled into their heads!
http://youtu.be/2AJ_PXomaDY
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 05, 2014, 04:21:52 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 05, 2014, 04:21:52 AM
Sounds ok indeed. Pitch change is really great already that soon. Your voice obviously seems a bit broken ("surgical laryngitis , someone called it ;) ), but this is totally normal at month 1 :) - Keep us posted ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on November 05, 2014, 07:47:49 AM
Post by: mk854 on November 05, 2014, 07:47:49 AM
Hi ElleA,
I would love to meet you there if our stay overlaps. Michelle
I would love to meet you there if our stay overlaps. Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 05, 2014, 01:23:57 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 05, 2014, 01:23:57 PM
Sounds to me like you have had an excellent result, especially for 1 month :D
Congrats!!
Congrats!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 05, 2014, 02:02:43 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 05, 2014, 02:02:43 PM
Thanks a lot Jenny! I was really moved by your video initially and it's what inspired and motivated me to seek their help!! <3 So thank you for sharing your wonderful results :)!! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on November 05, 2014, 02:11:56 PM
Post by: Livvykins on November 05, 2014, 02:11:56 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 04, 2014, 09:27:28 PM
Oh ya totally. Actually I gave Yeson full permission to post my before and after, but I can put together a quick before and after for you guys to see :)!! <3
Edit:
Here's a before and after! For this who have little knowledge of who I am, I've made somewhat of an impact in the video game world with my music in Dance Dance Revolution, so many people were sad that I was going to rid myself of the voice I didn't feel comfortable with. However they were happy for me and gave me full support too! Onto new things I say!
Anyways, sappy story aside, here is me just 2 days before surgery and 1 month later (1 day ahead of schedual for short convos...) I know I know.. bad J-Mi! Can you blame the excitement though!?
I really hope to inspire others into thinking more about what they want to be happy :)! I also want to hopefully rid doctors around here of that nightmare surgery they have drilled into their heads!
http://youtu.be/2AJ_PXomaDY
Amazing result, so pleased for you!!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on November 05, 2014, 02:15:55 PM
Post by: Livvykins on November 05, 2014, 02:15:55 PM
Hi Lovlies!
Here's my 4 month post-op vid :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFD5PZM8WQ&list=UUoVY86enVDAqxSscn5ro8Rw
I think 4 months must be the hard bit... hopefully it will get easier from here!
Liv x
Here's my 4 month post-op vid :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFD5PZM8WQ&list=UUoVY86enVDAqxSscn5ro8Rw
I think 4 months must be the hard bit... hopefully it will get easier from here!
Liv x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 05, 2014, 02:19:57 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 05, 2014, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on November 05, 2014, 02:15:55 PM
Hi Lovlies!
Here's my 4 month post-op vid :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFD5PZM8WQ&list=UUoVY86enVDAqxSscn5ro8Rw
I think 4 months must be the hard bit... hopefully it will get easier from here!
Liv x
You sound amazing as well!! Thank you for you kind comment btw! :) <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on November 05, 2014, 02:23:07 PM
Post by: barbie on November 05, 2014, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Livvykins on November 05, 2014, 02:15:55 PM
Hi Lovlies!
Here's my 4 month post-op vid :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFD5PZM8WQ&list=UUoVY86enVDAqxSscn5ro8Rw
I think 4 months must be the hard bit... hopefully it will get easier from here!
Liv x
Yes. A great movie!
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 03:43:38 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 03:43:38 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 04, 2014, 09:27:28 PM
Oh ya totally. Actually I gave Yeson full permission to post my before and after, but I can put together a quick before and after for you guys to see :)!! <3
Edit:
Here's a before and after! For this who have little knowledge of who I am, I've made somewhat of an impact in the video game world with my music in Dance Dance Revolution, so many people were sad that I was going to rid myself of the voice I didn't feel comfortable with. However they were happy for me and gave me full support too! Onto new things I say!
Anyways, sappy story aside, here is me just 2 days before surgery and 1 month later (1 day ahead of schedual for short convos...) I know I know.. bad J-Mi! Can you blame the excitement though!?
I really hope to inspire others into thinking more about what they want to be happy :)! I also want to hopefully rid doctors around here of that nightmare surgery they have drilled into their heads!
http://youtu.be/2AJ_PXomaDY
Your voice is pretty outstanding and unmistakeably female. This or something similar is what I'd like to aim for.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 03:46:17 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 03:46:17 PM
Quote from: Jessika on November 04, 2014, 04:21:18 PM
Don't know if posting prices is allowed here but could anyone who is going PM me the prices/statistics of Yeson please, in USD? Thank you.:)
As mentioned earlier in this thread, total is about 10k USD including travel to and hotel accommodation in Korea.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on November 09, 2014, 04:14:28 PM
Post by: Jessika on November 09, 2014, 04:14:28 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 03:46:17 PMThank you so much. I need a bigger Piggy bank. ::)
As mentioned earlier in this thread, total is about 10k USD including travel to and hotel accommodation in Korea.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 04:54:30 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 04:54:30 PM
Yeah I'm saving up already lol
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 07:58:11 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 07:58:11 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 03, 2014, 10:31:30 AM
That's not a problem for me. My A1C is actually in the normal range (around 5) but only because I watch what I eat and exercise. However if I go off overeating and gaining weight it can shoot up to almost 8.0. Now that I'm preparing for transition I'm actually being quite a good girl, eating healthy and my weight is dropping rather quickly so I should be pretty healthy in preparation for everything that I need to do.
I basically want to time it so I'm not taking part in any ham radio activities for at least a couple of months, but I can send morse code anyway without my voice. :)
They got back to me and said once diabetes is under control I'm good.
Let's see how things go. I see a trip to Korea in my future, possibly middle of next year. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 09, 2014, 08:14:58 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 09, 2014, 08:14:58 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 09, 2014, 03:43:38 PM
Your voice is pretty outstanding and unmistakeably female. This or something similar is what I'd like to aim for.
Thank you so much :) <3 ....
Also money wise, I'd said 12k if you're up in Canada! I made the mistake of forgetting people telling me 10k but in USD haha .. I'm so dense sometimes.... derp ... but hey .. tis all worth it :)!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on November 10, 2014, 06:28:32 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on November 10, 2014, 06:28:32 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 09, 2014, 08:14:58 PM
Thank you so much :) <3 ....
Also money wise, I'd said 12k if you're up in Canada! I made the mistake of forgetting people telling me 10k but in USD haha .. I'm so dense sometimes.... derp ... but hey .. tis all worth it :)!!
From around the New York area (as opposed to say, SF) it's definitely closer to 11-12k USD. But that's because the only free time in which I can have this done without drastically impacting my daily life for awhile is over the holiday season - easily 500-1000 higher on travel expenses. Ironic that travelling on Christmas costs less than travelling after it lol.
Also, 14-hour time zone difference. To the ends of the earth!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 10, 2014, 12:34:15 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 10, 2014, 12:34:15 PM
Quote from: Rachelicious on November 10, 2014, 06:28:32 AM
To the ends of the earth!
Basically what my mother told me after I told her I was going to S. Korea to have my voice operated upon. This was after she said "THERE IS NO WAY I'M LETTING YOU GO TO KOREA"
Relax, mom! It's not North Korea! Actually it's more like Beverly Hills in Gangnam- if not more Beverly Hills than Beverly Hills itself ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on November 10, 2014, 04:42:02 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on November 10, 2014, 04:42:02 PM
Totally! I'm constantly re-explaining, "Yes, this surgery really is that unique. No, there's nothing similar anywhere else, let alone locally, etc." My family finally seem on board with the idea but I don't think they can really imagine the magnitude of what having the right voice is going to do for me :)
Omigosh I can't wait. I've been in a state of anticipation for months
Omigosh I can't wait. I've been in a state of anticipation for months
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 10, 2014, 06:16:36 PM
Post by: ElleA on November 10, 2014, 06:16:36 PM
I just decided not to tell anyone but my partner. It's easier that way. [emoji3]
That way I don't have to have any of those conversations and I can just get on with life.
Sometime I just find it better not to tell people that don't need to know
That way I don't have to have any of those conversations and I can just get on with life.
Sometime I just find it better not to tell people that don't need to know
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:03:53 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:03:53 AM
So before I left, I did the obvious "Rainbow Passage" recording. I made sure to record it in high quality via my studio mic so that later comparisons could show the full quality of voice surgery. I just now recorded my "month and a half" recording on the same studio mic and here's the results!! I'm super duper thrilled with the results so far!!
http://youtu.be/W6iuE91VR2Y
http://youtu.be/W6iuE91VR2Y
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 12, 2014, 12:16:59 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 12, 2014, 12:16:59 AM
Ohhh yeah. I am so excited to have this done February can't come soon enough. Lovelyjmi your results are amazing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:22:08 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:22:08 AM
Quote from: ElleA on November 12, 2014, 12:16:59 AM
Ohhh yeah. I am so excited to have this done February can't come soon enough. Lovelyjmi your results are amazing.
Merci!!! <3 ... It's sooo worth it!! You'll be so happy I'm sure!! For me, it's so magical that I can now go talk in public and not FEEL that old boomy voice come out of me!! AHHH!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on November 12, 2014, 12:22:17 AM
Post by: Wynternight on November 12, 2014, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:03:53 AM
So before I left, I did the obvious "Rainbow Passage" recording. I made sure to record it in high quality via my studio mic so that later comparisons could show the full quality of voice surgery. I just now recorded my "month and a half" recording on the same studio mic and here's the results!! I'm super duper thrilled with the results so far!!
http://youtu.be/W6iuE91VR2Y
That's just amasing. I am going to save for this surgery; all of the results posted here have been incredible.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:24:37 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:24:37 AM
The crazy thing is, Dr. Kim says my pitch should increase even further! I'm so stoked!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 12, 2014, 12:40:48 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 12, 2014, 12:40:48 AM
Woot you gotta be happy that's for sure.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:42:49 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:42:49 AM
Absolutely!! Ahhh... so happy :3 <3!! And I'm so happy for you as well!! Heck I'm happy for everyone on here going for what makes them happy <3!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 04:10:04 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 04:10:04 AM
Hey so, I added the Hz! Thanks to my new friend Olivia for taking the time to walk me through figuring it all out! My voice has risen this morning. I am incredibly excited to use it more :D!
PS: This is not the same clip as earlier! This is a newer one :)
http://youtu.be/-lwDYUMFGEo
PS: This is not the same clip as earlier! This is a newer one :)
http://youtu.be/-lwDYUMFGEo
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on November 12, 2014, 05:26:07 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on November 12, 2014, 05:26:07 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 04:10:04 AM
Hey so, I added the Hz! Thanks to my new friend Olivia for taking the time to walk me through figuring it all out! My voice has risen this morning. I am incredibly excited to use it more :D!
Congrats! They sound quite good. 244hz whoa :) Are you perhaps subconsciously elevating pitch in this one? I ask because it sounds slightly strained (well, 6 weeks, duh) compared to the previous one, which sounds less strained but 100% natural and feminine. (I myself have been practicing my voice in its 'fundamental frequency' area to get ready for not having to force my voice upward post-op.)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 05:32:30 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 05:32:30 AM
Nop. I'm just having one of those "good" moments this morning! I always read stuff out like I talk normally. But my voice is still weak! Believe me a lot more of the times it lowers itself off and on, but today was the first day I've ever just opened my mouth and heard that pitch o_o!
Edit: I may have slightly forced a tiny bit, but not much. I must point out that as a music producer, I do a lot of voice over and singing, so it's just natural for me to force a little bit. BUT I wasn't squeezing my vocal chords like I used to in public :)! I was more or less just pushing out more air than anything :3 <3!
Thank you for all the kind comments though!! <3
Edit: I may have slightly forced a tiny bit, but not much. I must point out that as a music producer, I do a lot of voice over and singing, so it's just natural for me to force a little bit. BUT I wasn't squeezing my vocal chords like I used to in public :)! I was more or less just pushing out more air than anything :3 <3!
Thank you for all the kind comments though!! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 12, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 12, 2014, 03:41:51 PM
This really sounds good. Amazing really! I like the first (218Hz) better than the second one though actually. Sounds more free and natural to me :) - But honestly - you also changed your voice behaviour , right? In the pre OP recordings I have the feeling you are forcing the voice down in pitch, also adding a lot of vocal fry. Post op you do not use vocal fry like that . Can it be that the botox just does not allow for it, or did you just stop doing it?
Hehe, make a visit to Berlin to the voice doctor there and see how someone would fall off his chair - LOL. Now all you need to do is to sing with that good voice once it is posible and you can also give him a heart attack from envy ;)
Hehe, make a visit to Berlin to the voice doctor there and see how someone would fall off his chair - LOL. Now all you need to do is to sing with that good voice once it is posible and you can also give him a heart attack from envy ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 10:55:25 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 10:55:25 PM
Actually in the first one, that's really my original original voice. They told me to just speak how I originally did, so I just kinda let it go! :) I also had vocal tremors and one other issue with my vocal chords not closing completely at the top as I spoke, thus leading me to run out of breath really quickly, so it affected the way I used to speak too!
I'm still learning my balance though (obviously as it's just a month and a half) but I'm starting to understand how this new voice works now after some experimenting all day!
As for voice behaviour, I think it's more me being happy now more than anything. Cause I really am a peppy person, but when I had to listen to that old voice I got depressed and frustrated. I had a really grumbly voice.
Thanks for the kind comments though :3! <3 Will keep you posted on recovery!
Edit: I will totally sing something once I can!! I promised my fans, so I'll promise you guys as well :3! <3
I'm still learning my balance though (obviously as it's just a month and a half) but I'm starting to understand how this new voice works now after some experimenting all day!
As for voice behaviour, I think it's more me being happy now more than anything. Cause I really am a peppy person, but when I had to listen to that old voice I got depressed and frustrated. I had a really grumbly voice.
Thanks for the kind comments though :3! <3 Will keep you posted on recovery!
Edit: I will totally sing something once I can!! I promised my fans, so I'll promise you guys as well :3! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 13, 2014, 07:37:28 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 13, 2014, 07:37:28 AM
What's the wait time look like for scheduling? If I'm doing this mid to late next year, when should I schedule?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 13, 2014, 08:12:45 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 13, 2014, 08:12:45 AM
They only take booking a maximum of three months ahead so you'll have to wait until next year to book. I got pretty well straight in for the dates I wanted but that was right on the edge of the far bookings. I don't see you having any issues
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 13, 2014, 08:40:44 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 13, 2014, 08:40:44 AM
Quote from: ElleA on November 13, 2014, 08:12:45 AM
They only take booking a maximum of three months ahead so you'll have to wait until next year to book. I got pretty well straight in for the dates I wanted but that was right on the edge of the far bookings. I don't see you having any issues
yeah it's far off for me anyway. I want to do about a year of HRT first if I even go for this.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 13, 2014, 11:55:29 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 13, 2014, 11:55:29 PM
OK! So, granted, reading the Rainbow Passage is great to compare and all, it's also not as natural since I'm reading something, and I'm always keen on reading it "properly". Call it the perfectionist producer in me. It kinda makes me talk slightly higher.
That all said, I recorded this hyperactive video of me to give you a glimpse of what I naturally sound like in my daily life! With some other fun tid bits that may be of interest about what I've learned!
http://youtu.be/fFHgr-3IZ-Y
Enjoy!
PS: I'm healing up quite a lot faster than some people, so don't worry too much about how talky I am!! I'm totes fine! I usually give it a rest after a speech like that =)!!
That all said, I recorded this hyperactive video of me to give you a glimpse of what I naturally sound like in my daily life! With some other fun tid bits that may be of interest about what I've learned!
http://youtu.be/fFHgr-3IZ-Y
Enjoy!
PS: I'm healing up quite a lot faster than some people, so don't worry too much about how talky I am!! I'm totes fine! I usually give it a rest after a speech like that =)!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on November 14, 2014, 12:43:52 AM
Post by: Wynternight on November 14, 2014, 12:43:52 AM
I love this video, J-Mi. :)
It tickles me to see you so happy.
It tickles me to see you so happy.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 14, 2014, 12:44:34 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 14, 2014, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: Wynternight on November 14, 2014, 12:43:52 AM
I love this video, J-Mi. :)
It tickles me to see you so happy.
Haaaa... thank you! I really am!! I mean this is a dream come true @_@!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 14, 2014, 09:42:22 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 14, 2014, 09:42:22 AM
That last video was... amazing!
I think I'm leaning more into the direction of doing this. I really don't want to have to think of using my voice.
I think I'm leaning more into the direction of doing this. I really don't want to have to think of using my voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 14, 2014, 10:06:08 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 14, 2014, 10:06:08 AM
Why thank you!! It's really fun to be using it now :3! <3 I think I really got the understanding of how it works now. And Jessie says I'm healing up extremely fast. Which is fantastic!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: melanie maritz on November 14, 2014, 10:58:29 AM
Post by: melanie maritz on November 14, 2014, 10:58:29 AM
Wow that's so unbelievably awesome! Congratulations on your new voice :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 14, 2014, 12:29:52 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 14, 2014, 12:29:52 PM
Thanks a lot!! It went up a bit more this morning!! I'm soooo loving this <3!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 14, 2014, 01:14:48 PM
Post by: Shantel on November 14, 2014, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 14, 2014, 12:29:52 PM
Thanks a lot!! It went up a bit more this morning!! I'm soooo loving this <3!
Listened to your last video and OMG what a darling perky little woman you are, love your personality and the voice is just great!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 14, 2014, 03:18:10 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 14, 2014, 03:18:10 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 10:55:25 PMAh - yes of course in that case you can of course make the voice sound really bad, so the contrast is higher. I wish they would make 3 recordings. Original, pre op everyday voice and then post op.
Actually in the first one, that's really my original original voice. They told me to just speak how I originally did, so I just kinda let it go! :) I also had vocal tremors and one other issue with my vocal chords not closing completely at the top as I spoke, thus leading me to run out of breath really quickly, so it affected the way I used to speak too!
I think ALL here have vocal tremors and that little gap at the top/back. Maybe it has to do with speaking in a different voice, with hormones - who knows
[quoteI'm still learning my balance though (obviously as it's just a month and a half) but I'm starting to understand how this new voice works now after some experimenting all day! [/quote]
What is so differently?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 01:47:08 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 01:47:08 AM
Thanks Shantel!!! <3
And Anjaq, what I mean by them telling me to do my original voice, is not using my "trained" voice. The one where I sqweez my vocal chords. Because that, is not natural. My original voice was natural. So yea the contrast is big, but it's also real. And they want to show people what they can do to fix your natural voice. Not your trained one.
The difference is actually quite interesting. It's hard to explain with words, but in what I've learned on my own, you need to teach yourself to speak from the throat, and not from the chest. If you speak from the chest after surgery, which will happen because it is a habit from the male voice, it'll come out sounding weird and sound like a woman trying to speak like a guy (think Japanese anime where actresses do boy voices). But if you speak from the throat, and make it more breathy and sing songy, it comes out as very feminine. Likewise, if I had done the throat talking with the male voice, it would be very falsetto and weird sounding. It's kind of inverted now. Really, it's all about re-training your brain as Dr. Kim says.
And Anjaq, what I mean by them telling me to do my original voice, is not using my "trained" voice. The one where I sqweez my vocal chords. Because that, is not natural. My original voice was natural. So yea the contrast is big, but it's also real. And they want to show people what they can do to fix your natural voice. Not your trained one.
The difference is actually quite interesting. It's hard to explain with words, but in what I've learned on my own, you need to teach yourself to speak from the throat, and not from the chest. If you speak from the chest after surgery, which will happen because it is a habit from the male voice, it'll come out sounding weird and sound like a woman trying to speak like a guy (think Japanese anime where actresses do boy voices). But if you speak from the throat, and make it more breathy and sing songy, it comes out as very feminine. Likewise, if I had done the throat talking with the male voice, it would be very falsetto and weird sounding. It's kind of inverted now. Really, it's all about re-training your brain as Dr. Kim says.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 08:55:25 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 08:55:25 AM
Peppyness has returned! Questions answered in more detail and in VIDEO! :O
http://youtu.be/OdQw66ll4ew
http://youtu.be/OdQw66ll4ew
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 15, 2014, 09:16:23 AM
Post by: Shantel on November 15, 2014, 09:16:23 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 08:55:25 AM
Peppyness has returned! Questions answered in more detail and in VIDEO! :O
http://youtu.be/OdQw66ll4ew
Hahaha love it you goofy girl! You sound like one of the perky teenage girls next door. You should consider theater with that outgoing personality sweetie!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:06:39 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:06:39 AM
hahahahaha... why thank you!! Not bad for a 30 year old eh? lolll I do work in entertainment of sorts! I'm a music producer, and I do bits of voice acting here and there in music. I shall take note of your suggestion tho hahaha....
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 15, 2014, 10:35:05 AM
Post by: Shantel on November 15, 2014, 10:35:05 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:06:39 AM
hahahahaha... why thank you!! Not bad for a 30 year old eh? lolll I do work in entertainment of sorts! I'm a music producer, and I do bits of voice acting here and there in music. I shall take note of your suggestion tho hahaha....
You should, you have talent and you're good!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:38:26 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:38:26 AM
Why thank you!! You're so sweet! Wait till you hear my Yeson interview.... hahaha....omg... I warned them I'd be having fun with it versus just sitting in front of my phone!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Shantel on November 15, 2014, 10:43:26 AM
Post by: Shantel on November 15, 2014, 10:43:26 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:38:26 AM
Why thank you!! You're so sweet! Wait till you hear my Yeson interview.... hahaha....omg... I warned them I'd be having fun with it versus just sitting in front of my phone!
Can't wait, you've got my attention cute pie!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on November 15, 2014, 10:46:31 AM
Post by: Wynternight on November 15, 2014, 10:46:31 AM
J-mi - can you describe how you felt when you woke up from the procedure? Was there much in the way of pain? Was it hard to swallow? How long before you could eat and drink again?
Do you dream of the Rainbow Passage?
Do you dream of the Rainbow Passage?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 10:56:53 AM
Ohhh .. when I woke up, funny story, I almost screamed. Or at least tried too. I also felt the need to cough, but, not so much pain other than maybeeeeeee ... a bit of a bruise type sensation. But yes, tried to scream, and Jessie kinda just grabbed my arm and said nooooo .. don't don't don't!! And I calmed down quick! I think I was just a little shocked when I woke up because I knew I wasn't supposed to talk....
As for eating, eating was pretty easy. First day was liquid things, next day was back to normal things! And I ate with no problem! Honestly, I think I pigged out a bit much too... put on a couple of pounds hahaha... The food is AWESOME!! Though I miss not eating spicey food :(! I can't till next month.... U_U!
Do I dream of it? I hope not! I say it everyday! hahaha ... it's gotten to be a hilarious jokey thing for me now. Husband thinks I've gone mad whenever I randomly spout it out!
If you got more questions, ask away! :)
As for eating, eating was pretty easy. First day was liquid things, next day was back to normal things! And I ate with no problem! Honestly, I think I pigged out a bit much too... put on a couple of pounds hahaha... The food is AWESOME!! Though I miss not eating spicey food :(! I can't till next month.... U_U!
Do I dream of it? I hope not! I say it everyday! hahaha ... it's gotten to be a hilarious jokey thing for me now. Husband thinks I've gone mad whenever I randomly spout it out!
If you got more questions, ask away! :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on November 15, 2014, 11:45:42 AM
Post by: Wynternight on November 15, 2014, 11:45:42 AM
Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 12:01:41 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 12:01:41 PM
Absolutely!! Anytime :)! <3 I'm here for you guys!! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on November 15, 2014, 12:29:05 PM
Post by: Livvykins on November 15, 2014, 12:29:05 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 08:55:25 AM
Peppyness has returned! Questions answered in more detail and in VIDEO! :O
http://youtu.be/OdQw66ll4ew
Perfect. xxx
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 12:45:45 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 12:45:45 PM
Thankys! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 15, 2014, 12:58:44 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 15, 2014, 12:58:44 PM
I saw someone say "camera up the nose" is that uncomfortable? How much so?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 01:10:23 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 01:10:23 PM
How is it not? LOL ... It's just weird.. they spray stuff in your nose to freeze everything, stick a tube in your nose, then extend the camera down it and to your vocal chords! It feels just weird haha .. no otherway to describe it! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 15, 2014, 05:22:06 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 15, 2014, 05:22:06 PM
Can't be worse than getting tear gassed, something I've experienced more than a few times. :police:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on November 16, 2014, 02:56:55 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on November 16, 2014, 02:56:55 AM
Yeah the back of the throat nose-cam is just weird and that's it. It's not uncomfortable at all. It kinda bends around and doesn't cause any pain at all... At least it didn't for me.
The stuff they spray in there makes your nose feel dry for a while- that's about the only discomfort I noticed.
Jmi great video :) You are super spunky. I love it! Thanks for sharing it with us!
The stuff they spray in there makes your nose feel dry for a while- that's about the only discomfort I noticed.
Jmi great video :) You are super spunky. I love it! Thanks for sharing it with us!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eva on November 16, 2014, 08:02:32 AM
Post by: Eva on November 16, 2014, 08:02:32 AM
Hi Jenny I just wanted to thank you for putting this out there.... Also thanks to everyone else too Im only 1/2 way through this epic thread and Ive learned a lot 8)
Im into my 4th day of recovery from a similar procedure done by Dr Haben in NY...
Its going great so far I think and Im doing well with no real discomfort except for the occasional itchy throat... Water and sugar free cough drops have been my friends so far... Im not taking any kind of pain meds or even prescription cough meds at all... I tried some narcotic cough medicine at the hospital post op and I thought it actually made my itching worse... Ive been on nothing at all since then.... Just a few instances of very easy light coughing, clearing my throat... I do try to avoid that though....
I have no real trouble mostly not talking at all... Even living alone here aside from my dog its been surprisingly hard not to slip and say something... I guess I never realized how much I talk to myself... My poor dog is kinda confused because I like to talk to him... SOON.... I hope he likes momma's new voice 8)
Anyway my question was for any of you Yeson girls... Could you please post your aftercare instructions??? I cant find anything anywhere on that... I was just told no talking for a week and no dietary restrictions...
Thanks again ;)
Im into my 4th day of recovery from a similar procedure done by Dr Haben in NY...
Its going great so far I think and Im doing well with no real discomfort except for the occasional itchy throat... Water and sugar free cough drops have been my friends so far... Im not taking any kind of pain meds or even prescription cough meds at all... I tried some narcotic cough medicine at the hospital post op and I thought it actually made my itching worse... Ive been on nothing at all since then.... Just a few instances of very easy light coughing, clearing my throat... I do try to avoid that though....
I have no real trouble mostly not talking at all... Even living alone here aside from my dog its been surprisingly hard not to slip and say something... I guess I never realized how much I talk to myself... My poor dog is kinda confused because I like to talk to him... SOON.... I hope he likes momma's new voice 8)
Anyway my question was for any of you Yeson girls... Could you please post your aftercare instructions??? I cant find anything anywhere on that... I was just told no talking for a week and no dietary restrictions...
Thanks again ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2014, 04:18:04 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2014, 04:18:04 PM
Very cool. You totally have a female voice now but it is a bit hoarse. Be careful there, maybe you are healing faster than others, but dont overdo it. If you were told by Yeson that it is ok to fully use it already, then of course it should be fine :)
It is really amazing how different those two voices are. I showed it to a friend who very often even with voices I consider well trained would say it still has maleness in it - she was telling me that it is 100% female, also in the "free" recordings. And this she really says very rarely :)
@Eva - post op instructions are AFAIK no talking for 2 weeks, just a few words a day for another 2 weeks, then take it easy, full conversation only after 8 weeks. no spicy foods, alcohol, caffeeine or anything upsetting for the throat for several weeks. But the "Yeson girls" can certainly be more precise.
EDITED to be less offensive (sorry MegC)
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 15, 2014, 01:47:08 AMOk, but I still would find it interesting. I had the inmpression that this was even worse than your original voice, with all the vocal fry in it...I tend to do the same when I am told to "do my old voice" ;)
And Anjaq, what I mean by them telling me to do my original voice, is not using my "trained" voice. The one where I sqweez my vocal chords. Because that, is not natural. My original voice was natural. So yea the contrast is big, but it's also real. And they want to show people what they can do to fix your natural voice. Not your trained one.
It is really amazing how different those two voices are. I showed it to a friend who very often even with voices I consider well trained would say it still has maleness in it - she was telling me that it is 100% female, also in the "free" recordings. And this she really says very rarely :)
QuoteWell but is that something related to surgery? I heard this description with others doing voice training as well and it seems to be really a key component.
The difference is actually quite interesting. It's hard to explain with words, but in what I've learned on my own, you need to teach yourself to speak from the throat, and not from the chest. If you speak from the chest after surgery, which will happen because it is a habit from the male voice, it'll come out sounding weird and sound like a woman trying to speak like a guy (think Japanese anime where actresses do boy voices). But if you speak from the throat, and make it more breathy and sing songy, it comes out as very feminine. Likewise, if I had done the throat talking with the male voice, it would be very falsetto and weird sounding. It's kind of inverted now. Really, it's all about re-training your brain as Dr. Kim says.
@Eva - post op instructions are AFAIK no talking for 2 weeks, just a few words a day for another 2 weeks, then take it easy, full conversation only after 8 weeks. no spicy foods, alcohol, caffeeine or anything upsetting for the throat for several weeks. But the "Yeson girls" can certainly be more precise.
EDITED to be less offensive (sorry MegC)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eva on November 16, 2014, 04:19:34 PM
Post by: Eva on November 16, 2014, 04:19:34 PM
OK I just read this entire thread, it took a while!!!
I am right now unable to talk at all and dreaming of results as good as what Ive heard here :o
Another question I have is if your all using the "trained" raised larynx position or just talking???
I guess I will find out for my self soon enough, I just hope for a result from Dr Haben as good as Yeson...
He did tell me to be prepared for a long rough recovery, at least a month before its gonna sound anywhere near good...
I am right now unable to talk at all and dreaming of results as good as what Ive heard here :o
Another question I have is if your all using the "trained" raised larynx position or just talking???
I guess I will find out for my self soon enough, I just hope for a result from Dr Haben as good as Yeson...
He did tell me to be prepared for a long rough recovery, at least a month before its gonna sound anywhere near good...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eva on November 16, 2014, 04:26:20 PM
Post by: Eva on November 16, 2014, 04:26:20 PM
Quote@Eva - post op instructions are AFAIK no talking for 2 weeks, just a few words a day for another 2 weeks, then take it easy, full conversation only after 8 weeks. no spicy foods, alcohol, caffeeine or anything upsetting for the throat for several weeks. But the "Yeson girls" can certainly be more precise.
Well WTF am I gonna eat and drink then, thats like half of my diet right there :-\
Really no salt??? I gotta have salt with my spiro...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: MeganChristine on November 16, 2014, 05:22:44 PM
Post by: MeganChristine on November 16, 2014, 05:22:44 PM
Anjaq, what is up with you?
For far to long have I been sitting here reading all your comments on surgical procedures and comparing them to your own AWESOME technique, and at the same time destructively pulling girls down to the ground from their euphoria for their achievements.
Instead of supporting them, you are telling them to hold back, to come back down from that state they are in. Literally dragging them down from their joy, robbing them of the feeling of accomplishment.
You of all, who has done so much "research" on the subject, should know that females MODULATE their voices in different situations, like when they are reading, talking to strangers, close relatives or singing. Heck even dudes use a mixed voice when they are singing - in fact, there is a whole how to find your mixed voice for dudes on youtube.
The surgery is like tuning the guitar, tuning it UP and getting rid of the male edge of the voice, hence the increased frequency.
So instead of dragging people down, cherish them for their accomplishment and LEARN from it! Stop comparing it to what you do right now, 'cause that is NOT COMPARABLE!
I can only say again what my sister told me: "You still kind of have the same voice, but with the male edge taken away from it". Mind you that I had 175 - 178hz trained voice, and after my VFS at Yeson I'm now at 220 when I speak normally with other people. 190 when I talk to relatives and over 220 when I'm reading. Why? I'm unintentionally modulating my voice. Every women does that. Men does it the other way, they make their voice deeper to show dominance and masculinity.
Okey, there, I've said it. Now considering the status you have on this page, you can ban me if you want to, or smite me. But I stand by these words from pure observations over several threats and posts...
-MegC
For far to long have I been sitting here reading all your comments on surgical procedures and comparing them to your own AWESOME technique, and at the same time destructively pulling girls down to the ground from their euphoria for their achievements.
Instead of supporting them, you are telling them to hold back, to come back down from that state they are in. Literally dragging them down from their joy, robbing them of the feeling of accomplishment.
You of all, who has done so much "research" on the subject, should know that females MODULATE their voices in different situations, like when they are reading, talking to strangers, close relatives or singing. Heck even dudes use a mixed voice when they are singing - in fact, there is a whole how to find your mixed voice for dudes on youtube.
The surgery is like tuning the guitar, tuning it UP and getting rid of the male edge of the voice, hence the increased frequency.
So instead of dragging people down, cherish them for their accomplishment and LEARN from it! Stop comparing it to what you do right now, 'cause that is NOT COMPARABLE!
I can only say again what my sister told me: "You still kind of have the same voice, but with the male edge taken away from it". Mind you that I had 175 - 178hz trained voice, and after my VFS at Yeson I'm now at 220 when I speak normally with other people. 190 when I talk to relatives and over 220 when I'm reading. Why? I'm unintentionally modulating my voice. Every women does that. Men does it the other way, they make their voice deeper to show dominance and masculinity.
Okey, there, I've said it. Now considering the status you have on this page, you can ban me if you want to, or smite me. But I stand by these words from pure observations over several threats and posts...
-MegC
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2014, 05:47:10 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 16, 2014, 05:47:10 PM
I apologize if it came across like I wanted to pull anyone down. I am not quite sure what you refer to MegC . In respect to J-Mi I was only trying to prevent her from overusing her voice now at week 6 - since I read so many times my thosw who have been to Yesons that this is not a good thing - I was just trying to say to be a bit careful until week 8.
I am not sure what I said. but I did not want to hurt anyone. I guess it is time for me to go into my hut and brood for a while instead of being on the forums, if I start to pull people down by my comments. I can then brood if I will take that date I was aiming for or not. It turns out it is far from perfect now that I have an exam put right in the middle of my proposed time window. But I guess I should just be quiet for now, listen to my feelings and then book that date in February. The consultation in Berlin last week showed me that a local surgery is no option at all and his amazement at the one person he saw who was at Yeson was just saying it all. So I guess within the next 3 Weeks or so the decision will fall about me and until then I will just not interfere.
And I was not trying to say anything bad about J-Mi s voice. I find it amazing at only 6 weeks to have that clearly and undeniably female voice - its really cool and J-Mi is so happy in the video, I totally can feel with her.
Bye for now
I am not sure what I said. but I did not want to hurt anyone. I guess it is time for me to go into my hut and brood for a while instead of being on the forums, if I start to pull people down by my comments. I can then brood if I will take that date I was aiming for or not. It turns out it is far from perfect now that I have an exam put right in the middle of my proposed time window. But I guess I should just be quiet for now, listen to my feelings and then book that date in February. The consultation in Berlin last week showed me that a local surgery is no option at all and his amazement at the one person he saw who was at Yeson was just saying it all. So I guess within the next 3 Weeks or so the decision will fall about me and until then I will just not interfere.
And I was not trying to say anything bad about J-Mi s voice. I find it amazing at only 6 weeks to have that clearly and undeniably female voice - its really cool and J-Mi is so happy in the video, I totally can feel with her.
Bye for now
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 16, 2014, 08:18:53 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 16, 2014, 08:18:53 PM
Quote from: anjaq on November 16, 2014, 05:47:10 PM
I apologize if it came across like I wanted to pull anyone down. I am not quite sure what you refer to MegC . In respect to J-Mi I was only trying to prevent her from overusing her voice now at week 6 - since I read so many times my thosw who have been to Yesons that this is not a good thing - I was just trying to say to be a bit careful until week 8.
I am not sure what I said. but I did not want to hurt anyone. I guess it is time for me to go into my hut and brood for a while instead of being on the forums, if I start to pull people down by my comments. I can then brood if I will take that date I was aiming for or not. It turns out it is far from perfect now that I have an exam put right in the middle of my proposed time window. But I guess I should just be quiet for now, listen to my feelings and then book that date in February. The consultation in Berlin last week showed me that a local surgery is no option at all and his amazement at the one person he saw who was at Yeson was just saying it all. So I guess within the next 3 Weeks or so the decision will fall about me and until then I will just not interfere.
And I was not trying to say anything bad about J-Mi s voice. I find it amazing at only 6 weeks to have that clearly and undeniably female voice - its really cool and J-Mi is so happy in the video, I totally can feel with her.
Bye for now
All is good, but I do agree with MegC ... you do come across like that, but honestly I don't care at all. I've had people pulling me left and right my entire life, and your comments won't affect my happiness. Now, that said, I only signed up here to help others who were thinking of going for Yeson. I care about other people because growing up no one really gave a crap about helping me.
I didn't come here to be lectured about not speaking. Yeson gave me the OK to speak more than most people at this point because I've healed a lot faster. I mention that in one of the videos. Sorry I don't like to sound like this or be negative, but your comments are exactly why I don't like joining a lot of communities online.
*rant over*
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 16, 2014, 08:23:33 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 16, 2014, 08:23:33 PM
Quote from: Eva on November 16, 2014, 04:26:20 PM
Well WTF am I gonna eat and drink then, thats like half of my diet right there :-\
Really no salt??? I gotta have salt with my spiro...
You can have salt, just not a ton. Lightly salted things are ok as pretty much anything you buy in Korea has salt in it a tad. They usually tell you a lot of things in exaggeration only because a lot of people react differently to it. I DO avoid caffeine, spicy or alcohol like the plague but salty things.. ehhhh .. I still eat it, and I'm fine! =)) ..
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 16, 2014, 08:32:04 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 16, 2014, 08:32:04 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 16, 2014, 02:56:55 AM
Yeah the back of the throat nose-cam is just weird and that's it. It's not uncomfortable at all. It kinda bends around and doesn't cause any pain at all... At least it didn't for me.
The stuff they spray in there makes your nose feel dry for a while- that's about the only discomfort I noticed.
Jmi great video :) You are super spunky. I love it! Thanks for sharing it with us!
And finally, thank you Jenny!! <3 You're too sweet!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 17, 2014, 12:37:54 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 17, 2014, 12:37:54 AM
When I read the stuff you can and can't eat and drink. I was like yeah that seems fine but the more I think about it, it feels like they just want you to have a healthy diet.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 01:02:05 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 01:02:05 AM
Quote from: ElleA on November 17, 2014, 12:37:54 AM
When I read the stuff you can and can't eat and drink. I was like yeah that seems fine but the more I think about it, it feels like they just want you to have a healthy diet.
Yea pretty much. It's just all about making recovery a lot faster! Don't get sick especially heh ... but really I think it's greatly exaggerated into making you more cautious. Which is fine if you ask me! They make you worry before hand, then you adapt better =))!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 17, 2014, 01:26:38 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 17, 2014, 01:26:38 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 16, 2014, 08:18:53 PMOk. I apologize. I will take a step back and not let my own fears and insecurities affect others. I need to "fight with my own demons" over this in private. Thanks for telling me though, both of you, so I wont bug more people with this now.
Sorry I don't like to sound like this or be negative, but your comments are exactly why I don't like joining a lot of communities online.
And dont get me wrong - I really think your voice is great J-Mi - I really did not mean to say it is not. And considering its 6 weeks, this seems to be amazing as you already are all full up and about and can already use it fully - way cool (y)
Ok, see you all in some weeks.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eva on November 17, 2014, 06:34:00 AM
Post by: Eva on November 17, 2014, 06:34:00 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 01:02:05 AM
Yea pretty much. It's just all about making recovery a lot faster! Don't get sick especially heh ... but really I think it's greatly exaggerated into making you more cautious. Which is fine if you ask me! They make you worry before hand, then you adapt better =))!
Well I didnt go to Yeson, just too far away for me... I was just told "no dietary restrictions" basically he said just use common sense and take good care of yourself...
So Im having my morning coffee, I did have a couple of bloody marys last night... Really I haven't changed anything but I have been eating less and a bit better... Thats mostly just because the weather here has been really cold and snowy though.... Also my tongue and taste has been messed up but thats coming back I think.....Good weather to sit around and do nothing in... I usually like to walk a few miles a day....
2 more days and then I gotta do some things that must get done, bad voice or not... Im gonna try to use it as little as possible though unless I all of a sudden make an unlikely miraculous recovery...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 07:38:03 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 07:38:03 AM
Ahhh!! Right then!! I imagine it'd be the same thing any ways... it's hard to cut total salt out! I hope you get the voice you want =3 <3!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on November 17, 2014, 11:20:30 AM
Post by: Wynternight on November 17, 2014, 11:20:30 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 07:38:03 AM
Ahhh!! Right then!! I imagine it'd be the same thing any ways... it's hard to cut total salt out! I hope you get the voice you want =3 <3!!!
There's no way I could cut salt out. I like salt. I love it since starting HRT and have, in fact, been craving it. I use salt then add salt to my salt then salt my salt so I'm having salt with my salt.
Yo dawg, I heard you like salt so here's some salt for your salt whilst you salt your salt!
Mmm....salt...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on November 17, 2014, 01:19:11 PM
Post by: Jessika on November 17, 2014, 01:19:11 PM
At what stage of transition would you girls recommend going to Yeson if that were the place of choice?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 01:24:09 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 01:24:09 PM
hahahahaha Wynternight, I'm totally with ya on that!! (btw sorry I never caught your name!)
Jessika, I couldn't tell you as it's been already 6 years for me since I've completed transition, but I'd imagine you could go whenever. However, lets see what everyone else thinks :)!!
Jessika, I couldn't tell you as it's been already 6 years for me since I've completed transition, but I'd imagine you could go whenever. However, lets see what everyone else thinks :)!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on November 17, 2014, 01:49:42 PM
Post by: Jessika on November 17, 2014, 01:49:42 PM
I was thinking after Laser/Electro hair removal, Being on HRT at least a year and after name changes on Documents. My voice is my biggest downfall thou.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 03:05:32 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 17, 2014, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: Jessika on November 17, 2014, 01:49:42 PM
I was thinking after Laser/Electro hair removal, Being on HRT at least a year and after name changes on Documents. My voice is my biggest downfall thou.
I know them feels *hugs* ... my biggest downfall, for me anyways, was my Jaw, and my voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 17, 2014, 04:04:05 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 17, 2014, 04:04:05 PM
My plan is to try voice training first and if I can't get a passable voice that comes out without effort with a year on HRT I'm going for a surgical option.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on November 17, 2014, 05:10:28 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on November 17, 2014, 05:10:28 PM
Quote from: Jessika on November 17, 2014, 01:49:42 PM
I was thinking after Laser/Electro hair removal, Being on HRT at least a year and after name changes on Documents. My voice is my biggest downfall thou.
I think everyone's priority system is different, no doubt influenced by available resources. I had surgery long before starting electro, even though many start electro long before even going full-time. I think if Yeson had been around/known when I transitioned, it would have been pretty high on my list.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 17, 2014, 11:10:28 PM
Post by: ElleA on November 17, 2014, 11:10:28 PM
This when to get it talk made me think of another question. I have a pretty passable voice already but it definitely gets lower after a big talking day or i struggle to talk with out clearing my throat. Does anyone else have the same problem? And if you did and have been to Yeson is this something surgery resolved? I never had this problem using a deep voice before trying to speak in a higher pitch.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 12:05:51 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: ElleA on November 17, 2014, 11:10:28 PM
This when to get it talk made me think of another question. I have a pretty passable voice already but it definitely gets lower after a big talking day or i struggle to talk with out clearing my throat. Does anyone else have the same problem? And if you did and have been to Yeson is this something surgery resolved? I never had this problem using a deep voice before trying to speak in a higher pitch.
Let me tell ya, I used to be good at raising my pitch and holding it for a little while, but I got tired so fast and my voice got super weak. After Yeson, I don't even have to force to keep it up. It actually seems easier to hold it up than to keep it down now!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 18, 2014, 12:15:02 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 18, 2014, 12:15:02 AM
I really hope so I so sick of being so weak in the afternoons
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 12:40:20 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 12:40:20 AM
Quote from: ElleA on November 18, 2014, 12:15:02 AM
I really hope so I so sick of being so weak in the afternoons
I feel you. That's why I just told myself, I'd rather get it done, and never have to worry about those problems ever again! And, in my case, Dr. Kim solved a couple of other problems I had at the same time! One being this breathing problem I've had since I was a kid. My vocal chords didn't close all the way at the top, so it caused me to run out of breath quick, which also made my voice weaker. And because of my "personal pitch shift" I used to do by squeezing my vocal chords, I caused my vocal folds to be asymmetrical over time. He fixed that too ^_^!! So like, 3 problems in one go!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 12:45:09 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 12:45:09 AM
BTW ... my frequencies have gone up quite a bit! And I've regained more power in my voice! AND I've been inspired by Olivia to do 1 video a month! So I'll do a compilation of sorts.
I also went and dug up the oldest Rainbow Passage from Pre-OP that I could find :)!!
http://youtu.be/JKMEPBbkuMM
I also went and dug up the oldest Rainbow Passage from Pre-OP that I could find :)!!
http://youtu.be/JKMEPBbkuMM
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eva on November 18, 2014, 08:36:31 AM
Post by: Eva on November 18, 2014, 08:36:31 AM
Quote from: Wynternight on November 17, 2014, 11:20:30 AM
There's no way I could cut salt out. I like salt. I love it since starting HRT and have, in fact, been craving it. I use salt then add salt to my salt then salt my salt so I'm having salt with my salt.
Yo dawg, I heard you like salt so here's some salt for your salt whilst you salt your salt!
Mmm....salt...
Yep I like bacon too, I like salt on my salty bacon :) Oh and pickles, I love a nice spicy salty pickle :laugh:
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 08:40:46 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 08:40:46 AM
*cocks gun* NEVAH TAKE MY BACON AWAY!!! lolll
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eva on November 18, 2014, 08:41:18 AM
Post by: Eva on November 18, 2014, 08:41:18 AM
Thats AWESOME Lovelyjmi, its gotta be like living a dream to have a PERMANENT voice like that ;D
So COOL 8)
I WANT!!!
So COOL 8)
I WANT!!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 08:47:00 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 18, 2014, 08:47:00 AM
Quote from: Eva on November 18, 2014, 08:41:18 AM
Thats AWESOME Lovelyjmi, its gotta be like living a dream to have a PERMANENT voice like that ;D
So COOL 8)
I WANT!!!
Sqweee... I hope it sticks! Like many before me have said, you gotta work a little for it too! I just so happen to be good with using my voice and I've had so much experience in the past with it. But, I'm trying my best!! I dread month 4 though!! Botox wearing off will be something to get used to!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 10:38:09 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 10:38:09 AM
Hey guys!! I got a message from Jessie at Yeson to pass onto people looking into VFS!
"Nowadays our centre is getting busier than ever so if you have anyone interested in our procedure around you, please inform them
that they should make an appointment 4~5 months in advance. At the moment, the earliest one available for VFS surgery is March. (Probably there are some in February as well but I should check them out)
Only within a few weeks, January and February were all fully booked out due to the increasing number of local patients as well. I usually inform my patients that they should make an appointment 1~3 months in advance
but things got different here now so I need your help to spread this news that they should make an appointment 3~5 months in advance to others if possible :) "
Take note of that :)!! <3
"Nowadays our centre is getting busier than ever so if you have anyone interested in our procedure around you, please inform them
that they should make an appointment 4~5 months in advance. At the moment, the earliest one available for VFS surgery is March. (Probably there are some in February as well but I should check them out)
Only within a few weeks, January and February were all fully booked out due to the increasing number of local patients as well. I usually inform my patients that they should make an appointment 1~3 months in advance
but things got different here now so I need your help to spread this news that they should make an appointment 3~5 months in advance to others if possible :) "
Take note of that :)!! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 20, 2014, 01:00:04 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 20, 2014, 01:00:04 PM
Your old voice actually doesn't sound that bad even though it's not in the full female range. However the new one is pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 20, 2014, 01:01:00 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 20, 2014, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 10:38:09 AM
Hey guys!! I got a message from Jessie at Yeson to pass onto people looking into VFS!
"Nowadays our centre is getting busier than ever so if you have anyone interested in our procedure around you, please inform them
that they should make an appointment 4~5 months in advance. At the moment, the earliest one available for VFS surgery is March. (Probably there are some in February as well but I should check them out)
Only within a few weeks, January and February were all fully booked out due to the increasing number of local patients as well. I usually inform my patients that they should make an appointment 1~3 months in advance
but things got different here now so I need your help to spread this news that they should make an appointment 3~5 months in advance to others if possible :) "
Take note of that :)!! <3
Yeah they told me 4 months when I contacted them. So I figure in January I will schedule them and hopefully I'll get my appointment before Christmas, LOL.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 02:36:38 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 02:36:38 PM
My old voice was in the higher male range and I think it's terrible and weak sounding... but thank you!
Edit: Plus getting called Mister on the phone, wasn't exactly making me feel very feminine... just saying...
Edit: Plus getting called Mister on the phone, wasn't exactly making me feel very feminine... just saying...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 20, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 20, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 02:36:38 PM
My old voice was in the higher male range and I think it's terrible and weak sounding... but thank you!
Edit: Plus getting called Mister on the phone, wasn't exactly making me feel very feminine... just saying...
Just curious, did you have any formal voice training? I mean voice feminization, not necessarily work related.
I have had training for work and public speaking (I work in television and media and I do talks at conferences and seminars sometimes) but nothing re feminization.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 09:44:15 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 20, 2014, 09:44:15 PM
I went to speech therapy for a while, but if I didn't keep up with exercises every single day, it did no good for me. It just got to the point where I was straining my voice all the time :(! And Dr. Kim pointed that out too. I did it for 6 years... really took a toll on me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on November 23, 2014, 09:26:43 PM
Post by: seattlesarah on November 23, 2014, 09:26:43 PM
Hello, I've read through this entire thread and sent Yeson an enquiry to see when I can get an appointment. While I wait, I was wondering if lovelyjmi or any of the other girls who have been through this could tell me, if you are (majorly) stealth before the surgery, and then you have it, are you likely to be outed by the healing period in the first 6 months?
Here's my situation: I've been stealth for about 5 years (why I don't have a profile pic), and in that time have moved, gone into a whole new line of work unrelated to the transition job, and met a partner who I told after we'd been together for a while, but who's family have no idea. I've known them over 3 years.
My male voice fundamental frequency is 104Hz. I was a super-bass in choir. My female voice fundamental frequency in normal conversation is 196Hz. I did a LOT of work to have the voice I have.
It's perfectly fine - low and raspy for a female but passable on the phone, and I can hold it in nervous situations, but my reason for this surgery is that I am capable of putting out noises of down to 75Hz when I sob heavily in a super resonant loud echoey way, and I cannot sing or yell because I just do not have the range in an alto register and when I yell I cannot keep resonance out of my voice. I also have to really suppress my laugh to not make a bellowing sound, and the MOST frustrating thing is that when girls around me start getting excited together their pitch goes up and up while I am stuck down around this super calm and steady range of vocalization which makes me seem like a zen never-flustered sort of woman when I am anything but. It REALLY gets in the way of bonding with women.
I believe my vocal chords are probably damaged - another reason I want this surgery - from when my voice dropped at 16. Suddenly I couldn't sing Time After Time with Cindy Lauper at the same pitch she could and I really really tried and pushed my voice up for years before I admitted defeat. I think it's damaged because I definitely have vocal tremor - I am totally unable to hold a note without vibrato, which I cannot control the level of - and I have no ability to quickly move between pitches to do melismas despite years of trying.
My vocal range is 75Hz to 622Hz when I use maximum volume - that's Eb2 to Eb5 - which sounds great on paper, but in reality I sound *ridiculous* in falsetto because it sounds so unnatural and strained: my break is around Eb4-G4, and I can't really enunciate words at anything above Bb4 in falsetto and have to really blow wind hard through my chords to get above that. I don't have a voice that can practically sing a scale in alto at all, and I can really only sound female for about 3 or 4 notes around C4 without extreme strain or resonance or lowness of pitch or ridiculous hollowness in the falsetto outing me. I can't even sing Happy Birthday To You without giving myself away as trans.
So I want the surgery for all these reasons. My question is: will I be stuck down around 104Hz for 3-6 months after the surgery, effectively outing me to anyone who hears me, and worst of all, exposing my partner to my low low voice in that range (which she has never heard and which I don't want her to hear for fear she will lose attraction to me - she's a pretty hardcore lesbian in terms of who she is attracted to).
I can work around it by being totally silent until my ability to speak at 196Hz is back, but I don't know if my partner could stand me not talking for that long as I am the outgoing one who talks the most between us, and she finds that comforting.
I'm also a little worried about losing the raspiness (like Demi Moore/Scarlet Johannsen) altogether as she finds that attractive, but I'll deal with that if it happens. I just really don't want to go through the rest of my life never sounding excited again.
Here's my situation: I've been stealth for about 5 years (why I don't have a profile pic), and in that time have moved, gone into a whole new line of work unrelated to the transition job, and met a partner who I told after we'd been together for a while, but who's family have no idea. I've known them over 3 years.
My male voice fundamental frequency is 104Hz. I was a super-bass in choir. My female voice fundamental frequency in normal conversation is 196Hz. I did a LOT of work to have the voice I have.
It's perfectly fine - low and raspy for a female but passable on the phone, and I can hold it in nervous situations, but my reason for this surgery is that I am capable of putting out noises of down to 75Hz when I sob heavily in a super resonant loud echoey way, and I cannot sing or yell because I just do not have the range in an alto register and when I yell I cannot keep resonance out of my voice. I also have to really suppress my laugh to not make a bellowing sound, and the MOST frustrating thing is that when girls around me start getting excited together their pitch goes up and up while I am stuck down around this super calm and steady range of vocalization which makes me seem like a zen never-flustered sort of woman when I am anything but. It REALLY gets in the way of bonding with women.
I believe my vocal chords are probably damaged - another reason I want this surgery - from when my voice dropped at 16. Suddenly I couldn't sing Time After Time with Cindy Lauper at the same pitch she could and I really really tried and pushed my voice up for years before I admitted defeat. I think it's damaged because I definitely have vocal tremor - I am totally unable to hold a note without vibrato, which I cannot control the level of - and I have no ability to quickly move between pitches to do melismas despite years of trying.
My vocal range is 75Hz to 622Hz when I use maximum volume - that's Eb2 to Eb5 - which sounds great on paper, but in reality I sound *ridiculous* in falsetto because it sounds so unnatural and strained: my break is around Eb4-G4, and I can't really enunciate words at anything above Bb4 in falsetto and have to really blow wind hard through my chords to get above that. I don't have a voice that can practically sing a scale in alto at all, and I can really only sound female for about 3 or 4 notes around C4 without extreme strain or resonance or lowness of pitch or ridiculous hollowness in the falsetto outing me. I can't even sing Happy Birthday To You without giving myself away as trans.
So I want the surgery for all these reasons. My question is: will I be stuck down around 104Hz for 3-6 months after the surgery, effectively outing me to anyone who hears me, and worst of all, exposing my partner to my low low voice in that range (which she has never heard and which I don't want her to hear for fear she will lose attraction to me - she's a pretty hardcore lesbian in terms of who she is attracted to).
I can work around it by being totally silent until my ability to speak at 196Hz is back, but I don't know if my partner could stand me not talking for that long as I am the outgoing one who talks the most between us, and she finds that comforting.
I'm also a little worried about losing the raspiness (like Demi Moore/Scarlet Johannsen) altogether as she finds that attractive, but I'll deal with that if it happens. I just really don't want to go through the rest of my life never sounding excited again.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 09:19:59 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 09:19:59 AM
Hiya!! While I'm certainly not 100% stealth, just because I'm kinda public eye due to my career choice, and that makes it hard to be stealth, I'm also very open minded about being trans only because I like to educate and help others in my position. SO with that said, I can guarantee, at least in my case, I've not been outed as male on the phone or in person ever since surgery :)! Which makes me extremely happy!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 24, 2014, 09:53:04 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 24, 2014, 09:53:04 AM
I won't likely be 100% stealth either but I'm hoping the voice at least gets me to "stealth" with strangers. I don't mind people who respect trans people knowing I am. However as I explained in my thread about training I may have to go into some extremely transphobic places and having a passable voice is a must.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 12:44:06 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 12:44:06 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on November 24, 2014, 09:53:04 AM
I won't likely be 100% stealth either but I'm hoping the voice at least gets me to "stealth" with strangers. I don't mind people who respect trans people knowing I am. However as I explained in my thread about training I may have to go into some extremely transphobic places and having a passable voice is a must.
Totally a given! I'm the same way! If it's people who show respect or are friends, I'm totally cool with it. I'm proud to be trans. I mean, we get to experience 2 different worlds, why not enjoy that to our advantage? Sure I hated being physically male, cause I'm not male, but the experience has shown me different ways to understand men as well. I understand some of their problems and struggles. BUT I would not give up what I've fought so hard for in a million years! Becoming myself has made me more confident and a better person :)! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on November 24, 2014, 05:49:06 PM
Post by: seattlesarah on November 24, 2014, 05:49:06 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 09:19:59 AM
Hiya!! While I'm certainly not 100% stealth, just because I'm kinda public eye due to my career choice, and that makes it hard to be stealth, I'm also very open minded about being trans only because I like to educate and help others in my position. SO with that said, I can guarantee, at least in my case, I've not been outed as male on the phone or in person ever since surgery :)! Which makes me extremely happy!
Thanks for replying. I think your original voice fundamental was nowhere near as low as mine (104hz)? So I guess the question I have for you is, are you stuck at that pre-surgery unaltered pitch hz position initially, or can you still elevate it as soon as your voice comes back after that initial period of silence?
I need to elevate mine at least 70Hz from it's original position to sound close to feminine. I'm just wondering if that's possible in the first 3-6 months. No amount of resonance suppression or other tonal quality would make a 104hz voice sound female, and it would just scare people to hear it coming out of me. It would be like I had been possessed!
Also, sorry, I didn't mean to only answer if you lived stealth, I just meant, IF you WERE majorly stealth, would it have outed you. Geez I really did not mean to put anyone in a mindset to think about stealth vs out or to state a position on that. We all live the way we find most comfortable and no one solution is right for everyone, and everyone can go through stages of living different ways, and that's ok. I just really do not want to NOT be stealth at this point in time, or for my partner to hear my old voice pitch level coming out of me.
I really appreciate you and the other girls in the thread who have shared your experiences, and also thank you to Jenny for starting the thread and making this procedure known to everyone.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 06:33:12 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 06:33:12 PM
Haha .. no you didn't put me on the spot! I just thought I'd explain my situation a little more as it could differ!
My initial voice was around 134-144 Hz (male voice) .. which is pretty high for a male voice, so as soon as I could speak, my voice was much higher, and believe me I can't go even close to my old voice anymore. HOWEVER, the botox helps with that, so I'm awaiting the dreaded month 4 when it wears off.
However, I've been doing voice acting/rapping/singing for a long time, and it's helped a lot with me sounding better, so my case might be a little different from yours. I also mentioned in one of my videos about learning the "Speaking from the neck" versus "Speaking from the chest" trick too. I'm just a fast learner. And I suppose when you really want something, you work for it quickly!
But as for am I stuck with the pre-Hz voice, not at all. They pretty much cut off all that low frequency so that it makes it impossible to "Accidentally" fall back into.
I think that's the best I can explain things, if you want to know anything else, post? <3 Haha ...!
My initial voice was around 134-144 Hz (male voice) .. which is pretty high for a male voice, so as soon as I could speak, my voice was much higher, and believe me I can't go even close to my old voice anymore. HOWEVER, the botox helps with that, so I'm awaiting the dreaded month 4 when it wears off.
However, I've been doing voice acting/rapping/singing for a long time, and it's helped a lot with me sounding better, so my case might be a little different from yours. I also mentioned in one of my videos about learning the "Speaking from the neck" versus "Speaking from the chest" trick too. I'm just a fast learner. And I suppose when you really want something, you work for it quickly!
But as for am I stuck with the pre-Hz voice, not at all. They pretty much cut off all that low frequency so that it makes it impossible to "Accidentally" fall back into.
I think that's the best I can explain things, if you want to know anything else, post? <3 Haha ...!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on November 24, 2014, 09:04:29 PM
Post by: seattlesarah on November 24, 2014, 09:04:29 PM
Awesome, that is so comforting to hear, thank you! My resonance on praat is up in the female range, about 3200hz on all the vowels except o (2834hz) so I am already trained in speaking from the throat (pretty sure this is what you mean), so it sounds like it will be ok.
Thanks for answering. Still waiting for a reply from the Yeson center. My emails have a habit of getting lost by companies. :/
Thanks for answering. Still waiting for a reply from the Yeson center. My emails have a habit of getting lost by companies. :/
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 09:15:55 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on November 24, 2014, 09:15:55 PM
Nah, I wouldn't worry! Jessie said they're packed with people atm, so it'd take them a little longer to get back to everyone :)! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on November 29, 2014, 12:11:07 AM
Post by: seattlesarah on November 29, 2014, 12:11:07 AM
My original email to Yeson ended up in their spam mail folder! A week later when I wrote again to see if they got my first email, it was found.
I have a booking for the 29th of January. I haven't sent my flight itinerary yet. I was expecting to be asked to do some voice recordings for them beforehand, but nothing about that was said, I just answered a questionnaire. Is that normal? It sounds like other people have sent recordings before going.
I have a booking for the 29th of January. I haven't sent my flight itinerary yet. I was expecting to be asked to do some voice recordings for them beforehand, but nothing about that was said, I just answered a questionnaire. Is that normal? It sounds like other people have sent recordings before going.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 29, 2014, 03:09:20 AM
Post by: ElleA on November 29, 2014, 03:09:20 AM
Hey Seattle Sarah, I'm booked in for the 2nd of February so we will probably be there at the same time. I haven't been asked for anything but the itinerary yet. My thought is that they will wait until a lot closer to the date.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2014, 05:39:37 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2014, 05:39:37 AM
I dont think they ask recordings of you, the first day there is packed with examinations from what others were telling, so all will be on that day. Some people like me were a bit super cauteous and sent in recordings and/or ENT examination results (endoscopic video, pitch range, jitter,...) beforehand in order to see if the surgery is possible (in my case that was a rather negative result the first time, so I had to give it a year - Jessie said, it would be worth fixing some other voice issues before doing the sirgery). But it is no need, if you are already booked, They can do everything needed on site.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 05:58:44 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 05:58:44 AM
Typically how long on HRT are you before you go? I really ideally want to do this around when I go FT. Right now I am not on HRT yet (seeing the endo on mon) but my voice is KILLING me. I swear, people are afraid to gender me and I get "ma'amed" when I go out andro/femme but when they hear my voice I get a pretty rapid "sir" and that depresses me to no end. Yeah yeah I know I should be patient.
I was planning for 9mths to a year on HRT before I do any voice surgery. I will be doing voice training as well.
I was planning for 9mths to a year on HRT before I do any voice surgery. I will be doing voice training as well.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2014, 06:05:51 AM
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2014, 06:05:51 AM
I dont think the amount of HRT has anything to do with it at all! If anything then the amount of voice training you have done.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on November 29, 2014, 08:05:42 AM
Post by: Jessika on November 29, 2014, 08:05:42 AM
I don't have the motivation for voice training. I will let Yeson do the work for me. After all, it's what I will be paying them for.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 08:39:16 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 08:39:16 AM
Quote from: Jessika on November 29, 2014, 08:05:42 AM
I don't have the motivation for voice training. I will let Yeson do the work for me. After all, it's what I will be paying them for.
True to an extent but you still need to get rid of the other "male" characteristics of your voice that don't involve pitch. Things like prosody and resonance have to be worked on.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 10:00:26 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 10:00:26 AM
Quote from: Hanazono on November 29, 2014, 09:59:09 AM
HRT has no bearing upon these other than a placebo effect
I know. I was replying to Jessika about her saying that Yeson will do all the work for her.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on November 29, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
Post by: seattlesarah on November 29, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
Quote from: ElleA on November 29, 2014, 03:09:20 AM
Hey Seattle Sarah, I'm booked in for the 2nd of February so we will probably be there at the same time. I haven't been asked for anything but the itinerary yet. My thought is that they will wait until a lot closer to the date.
Thanks ElleA and Anjaq. It just seems too easy to get an appointment, especially after having to get letters from psychiatrists and having to make payment in advance for SRS! I almost feel like I'll get there and they'll say "who are you?"
ImagineKate: I don't think there are any HRT requirements etc, however if you are not presenting female when you go I imagine there'd be a bit of double-checking that you really wanted to do this. I should think after 9 months of HRT and voice training you'll be more than ready. They're probably not too worried about stopping anyone from doing the procedure because it is reversible if you wanted to change your mind later.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on November 29, 2014, 03:34:06 PM
Post by: ElleA on November 29, 2014, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: seattlesarah on November 29, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
Thanks ElleA and Anjaq. It just seems too easy to get an appointment, especially after having to get letters from psychiatrists and having to make payment in advance for SRS! I almost feel like I'll get there and they'll say "who are you"
I can only think this is because the procedure is completely reversible unlike SRS
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2014, 04:13:06 PM
Post by: anjaq on November 29, 2014, 04:13:06 PM
It is in some way reversible, but not completely. If reversed, there will be damage, but its more like growing boobs and then having them removed if it was not what felt right.
I know of at least 2 people who went there still presenting male because they had not enough HRT, wanted FFS and VFS to be done prior to presenting female and they also got their surgery. Its not trans related anyways - they also treat women with androphonia and with other surgeries there also treat singers who have voice damage.
I know of at least 2 people who went there still presenting male because they had not enough HRT, wanted FFS and VFS to be done prior to presenting female and they also got their surgery. Its not trans related anyways - they also treat women with androphonia and with other surgeries there also treat singers who have voice damage.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on November 29, 2014, 05:32:19 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on November 29, 2014, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: seattlesarah on November 29, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
They're probably not too worried about stopping anyone from doing the procedure because it is reversible if you wanted to change your mind later.
While there's certainly room to get less change due to improper recovery care, it's really not reversible in any true sense of the word. It's like SRS - things are actually removed that can't be regrown or easily approximated back to the way they were, and you would be solidly healed before you would be able to have any kind of informed opinion about how your new voice sounds, anyway.
Quote from: Hanazono on November 29, 2014, 05:03:21 PM
I really like how you all sound after yeson. I'm seriously considering. do you think I could be a potential candidate?
here's a voice clip of me...
https://soundcloud.com/shizuma7775/rainbow-frequency-shift
It's hard to say based off this: you're speaking in what I assume is your raised / feminine voice? Yeson is really interested in your "fundamental frequency" - essentially, speaking at a comfortably low pitch without forcing your voice lower. After surgery, that's the part of the voice you want to be able to use without sounding masculine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 07:08:10 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on November 29, 2014, 07:08:10 PM
Quote from: seattlesarah on November 29, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
Thanks ElleA and Anjaq. It just seems too easy to get an appointment, especially after having to get letters from psychiatrists and having to make payment in advance for SRS! I almost feel like I'll get there and they'll say "who are you?"
ImagineKate: I don't think there are any HRT requirements etc, however if you are not presenting female when you go I imagine there'd be a bit of double-checking that you really wanted to do this. I should think after 9 months of HRT and voice training you'll be more than ready. They're probably not too worried about stopping anyone from doing the procedure because it is reversible if you wanted to change your mind later.
Oh I definitely will be presenting female. I mean, I do it now even without HRT, but I will be full time when I am ready to have my surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alysinspace on November 29, 2014, 07:15:43 PM
Post by: Alysinspace on November 29, 2014, 07:15:43 PM
Ive been looking up yeson and videos ive seen everyone seems to have good results in fact i have a hard time finding someone who got bad results. but also everything i read says vfs has a very low success rate and is super risky. i dunno if itd be worth it. thoughts?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on December 01, 2014, 08:04:11 AM
Post by: Livvykins on December 01, 2014, 08:04:11 AM
Hey lovelies!
Here's my month 5 update! My voice is now averaging 250-260Hz when relaxed talking... YAY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyPjRh36JtY&list=UUoVY86enVDAqxSscn5ro8Rw
Here's my month 5 update! My voice is now averaging 250-260Hz when relaxed talking... YAY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyPjRh36JtY&list=UUoVY86enVDAqxSscn5ro8Rw
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 01, 2014, 12:31:55 PM
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 01, 2014, 12:31:55 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on November 10, 2014, 12:34:15 PM
Basically what my mother told me after I told her I was going to S. Korea to have my voice operated upon. This was after she said "THERE IS NO WAY I'M LETTING YOU GO TO KOREA"
Relax, mom! It's not North Korea! Actually it's more like Beverly Hills in Gangnam- if not more Beverly Hills than Beverly Hills itself ;)
Ahah, this!
my mum is dead set against me travelling out to get this operation... But after being so inspired by all the girls who've had it done... It's kinda hard to let her drag me down ;p
But seriously, i think she's mainly worried about the results... She's 'seen results that have reverted' on the tv, and i gotta be honest, i haven't got a way to disprove to her that 1 year... 2 years... down the line my voice won't have lost the higher pitch...
To that end, and only if anyone who's got some result of 1 year+ post-op with Yeson, me and mum would love to hear your results!! :D
x x x
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 01, 2014, 02:24:34 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 01, 2014, 02:24:34 PM
So I got a question.
Some of you who did this were evaluated by ENT specialists in the USA (or other countries) before flying to Korea.
What do you go ask them for? Does Yeson tell you what you need to get, or give them instructions?
Some of you who did this were evaluated by ENT specialists in the USA (or other countries) before flying to Korea.
What do you go ask them for? Does Yeson tell you what you need to get, or give them instructions?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alaia on December 01, 2014, 03:23:34 PM
Post by: Alaia on December 01, 2014, 03:23:34 PM
Gotta say, this is one of my dream surgeries to have done. There are just so many situations where I loose control of my voice completely and it just sounds awful. The other day I was going through a sort of physical and spiritual detox bootcamp. I shared some things that just had me sobbing uncontrollably, and it sounded just like a guy crying... I hate that, I can't even let my emotions out without feeling dysphoria.
So anyway, just curious, how much does one need to plan for financially in getting this done? This is starting to feel more important to me than FFS.
So anyway, just curious, how much does one need to plan for financially in getting this done? This is starting to feel more important to me than FFS.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on December 01, 2014, 03:33:29 PM
Post by: ElleA on December 01, 2014, 03:33:29 PM
That's a question that had been asked many times. It's around the $10,000-11,000 USD. All in, with flights accommodation, food and the surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 01, 2014, 03:40:59 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 01, 2014, 03:40:59 PM
Probably closer to 12k from the east coast USA.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 01, 2014, 05:33:18 PM
Post by: anjaq on December 01, 2014, 05:33:18 PM
Quote from: Alaia on December 01, 2014, 03:23:34 PMI totally get that. I was at a spiritual camp as well - in a day long workshop on finding a path in life - and well - what happened was that people called me a he and afterwards people came by telling me that they still would regard me a woman despite my condition. It was the most horrible experience that drove me towards seeking a way to fix that. 3 months later I found the videos from this thread, another 2 months later i was readly to book - then Dr Kim was giving me some warnings on the examinations I sent in adn I could just not find a way to pull $10000 out of my empty pockets so Now it is a year later and I am waiting for the assessment of Dr Kim if i improved in a year of voice therapy. So in a weird way maybe for both of us these experiences at spiritual events guide us towards this?
The other day I was going through a sort of physical and spiritual detox bootcamp. I shared some things that just had me sobbing uncontrollably, and it sounded just like a guy crying...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on December 01, 2014, 06:12:24 PM
Post by: Wynternight on December 01, 2014, 06:12:24 PM
Can Yeson do chondrolaryngoplasty at the same time if it's requested? Or does he just specialise in the vocal cord surgery?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on December 01, 2014, 06:55:32 PM
Post by: ElleA on December 01, 2014, 06:55:32 PM
No they don't, plus that can mess with the results of the surgery, Dr Kim recommends having it done well before having his surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on December 01, 2014, 07:38:58 PM
Post by: Wynternight on December 01, 2014, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: ElleA on December 01, 2014, 06:55:32 PM
No they don't, plus that can mess with the results of the surgery, Dr Kim recommends having it done well before having his surgery.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Calycé on December 02, 2014, 01:33:09 AM
Post by: Calycé on December 02, 2014, 01:33:09 AM
- I finally did it !
- What ? The operation ?
- No, read the whole thread ;D
More seriously, I just registered to Susan's in order to really thank you Jennygirl.
This thread was an incredible and invaluable read to me and I'd also like to thanks abbyt89, Lena from Kiev, barbie, anjaq, AmyBerlin, ... just to name a few.
Really girls, THANK YOU !
- What ? The operation ?
- No, read the whole thread ;D
More seriously, I just registered to Susan's in order to really thank you Jennygirl.
This thread was an incredible and invaluable read to me and I'd also like to thanks abbyt89, Lena from Kiev, barbie, anjaq, AmyBerlin, ... just to name a few.
Really girls, THANK YOU !
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 02, 2014, 10:14:51 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 02, 2014, 10:14:51 PM
Oh .. my .. funk... I have reached.. a new pitch ... O_O! So, I put together a NEW studio quality recording month 2!
Old Voice: 134.4 Hz
New Voice: 265.2 Hz
http://youtu.be/AUrC_7hIdM4
Old Voice: 134.4 Hz
New Voice: 265.2 Hz
http://youtu.be/AUrC_7hIdM4
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 03, 2014, 03:17:00 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 03, 2014, 03:17:00 AM
Thats a 130 Hz increase - thats almost double of what Yeson describes on the website and in the flyers (74Hz). Wow. O.O
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on December 03, 2014, 03:19:40 AM
Post by: Livvykins on December 03, 2014, 03:19:40 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on December 02, 2014, 10:14:51 PM
Oh .. my .. funk... I have reached.. a new pitch ... O_O! So, I put together a NEW studio quality recording month 2!
Old Voice: 134.4 Hz
New Voice: 265.2 Hz
http://youtu.be/AUrC_7hIdM4
Amazing! :) My stats are currently
Old Voice: 143 Hz
New Voice: 267 Hz
Lol you're winning the Hz increase wars Gawd daym it!
Stupid cold this morning has my voice down to 250... Grr!
I'll be back... And in greater numbers!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 11:22:22 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 11:22:22 AM
bahaha... bring it on!! XD
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 03, 2014, 12:42:53 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 03, 2014, 12:42:53 PM
Not bad, not bad. The pitch is definitely feminine. The prosody seems a little off but you'll get it sooner or later I'm guessing. But to me the prosody comes off more like a foreign accent rather than "male" so I don't think you'll have any issues at all getting clocked.
ANy answer to my other question? I want to make sure I'm good before I go booking a flight to Korea and wasting time knowing he can't work on me.
ANy answer to my other question? I want to make sure I'm good before I go booking a flight to Korea and wasting time knowing he can't work on me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 02:05:53 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 02:05:53 PM
I ... am Canadian? Maybe that's the "Accent" you hear? XD! I definitely speak very girly :P! Don't forget this is just me reading!
Also, you'll have to email them for that! I know they're backed up for a bit!
Here's me speaking more naturally:
http://youtu.be/tGFZVDlLwV4
Also, you'll have to email them for that! I know they're backed up for a bit!
Here's me speaking more naturally:
http://youtu.be/tGFZVDlLwV4
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on December 03, 2014, 02:23:59 PM
Post by: barbie on December 03, 2014, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on December 02, 2014, 10:14:51 PM
Oh .. my .. funk... I have reached.. a new pitch ... O_O! So, I put together a NEW studio quality recording month 2!
Old Voice: 134.4 Hz
New Voice: 265.2 Hz
http://youtu.be/AUrC_7hIdM4
Wow!
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 03, 2014, 02:49:01 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 03, 2014, 02:49:01 PM
Oh right, Canadian, that's why it threw me off, LOL.
Did you see an ENT specialist in North America before you went to Yeson? Or did you just take a blind leap of faith?
Reason I'm asking is that my new primary/endo is very very cooperative with my transition plans, and will refer me for anything I need/want. If I need an ENT specialist to take a pic of my vocal cords they can arrange that. But I need to know if Yeson has any specific requirements.
Maybe I should just email Jessie and see. Hmm.
Did you see an ENT specialist in North America before you went to Yeson? Or did you just take a blind leap of faith?
Reason I'm asking is that my new primary/endo is very very cooperative with my transition plans, and will refer me for anything I need/want. If I need an ENT specialist to take a pic of my vocal cords they can arrange that. But I need to know if Yeson has any specific requirements.
Maybe I should just email Jessie and see. Hmm.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on December 03, 2014, 03:18:19 PM
Post by: Jessika on December 03, 2014, 03:18:19 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on December 03, 2014, 02:49:01 PMThis Link (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,179012.0.html) may help you. :)
Oh right, Canadian, that's why it threw me off, LOL.
Did you see an ENT specialist in North America before you went to Yeson? Or did you just take a blind leap of faith?
Reason I'm asking is that my new primary/endo is very very cooperative with my transition plans, and will refer me for anything I need/want. If I need an ENT specialist to take a pic of my vocal cords they can arrange that. But I need to know if Yeson has any specific requirements.
Maybe I should just email Jessie and see. Hmm.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 06:35:25 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 06:35:25 PM
Nah I didn't go to an ENT, because I decide what makes me happy :P .. not a doctor! I've had it up to here with doctors telling me not to do this or that. I've had so many bad ones. But my family doctor has always been the most kind person in the world and helped me transition! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on December 03, 2014, 07:01:12 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on December 03, 2014, 07:01:12 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 02:05:53 PM
http://youtu.be/tGFZVDlLwV4
Indeed, you totally hit the ball out of the park with this one :)
Happy to hear your casual voice so good! You have me quite psyched for my own trip.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 11:30:07 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 11:30:07 PM
Thank ya! :) <3 .. You'll love and hate it all the way lol... Seriously though, excited for you :D! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 11:14:11 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 11:14:11 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on December 03, 2014, 06:35:25 PM
Nah I didn't go to an ENT, because I decide what makes me happy :P .. not a doctor! I've had it up to here with doctors telling me not to do this or that. I've had so many bad ones. But my family doctor has always been the most kind person in the world and helped me transition! <3
OK I did not mean for any gatekeeping purposes, just to avoid flying all the way to Korea just to be turned down by Dr Kim himself (however, he seems to be able to fix nearly anything with the voice, but I am not about to blow a flight and hotel stay just for an expensive and depressing vacation.) I seem to remember Jenny went and had pictures taken of her vocal cords before she went. In any case though Jessie has been very helpful and communicative and after sending her the pre op forms and voice recordings we'll see what's what.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 11:14:48 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 11:14:48 AM
Quote from: Jessika on December 03, 2014, 03:18:19 PM
This Link (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,179012.0.html) may help you. :)
Thanks but that's the same email I got.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 04, 2014, 12:24:47 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 04, 2014, 12:24:47 PM
Well, all I did was send Yeson a voice clip of Rainbow flipping Passage haha .. and all was good. They said "Yup. We can fix that."! And that was all :)!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on December 04, 2014, 01:06:18 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on December 04, 2014, 01:06:18 PM
Indeed. I've yet to arrive, but I did the same thing as jmi. Dr. Kim heard my voice sample and his language in answering my questions implied I'm a good candidate.
Also, I had my vocal folds scoped years ago for a laryngitis issue - based on the ENT's rather shocked reaction upon arriving at my vocal folds, I'd say there's work to be done.
Also, I had my vocal folds scoped years ago for a laryngitis issue - based on the ENT's rather shocked reaction upon arriving at my vocal folds, I'd say there's work to be done.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alexis79 on December 04, 2014, 01:24:18 PM
Post by: Alexis79 on December 04, 2014, 01:24:18 PM
72 pages.. whew...not enough time to read up all of it.
Can somebody please newer this much since I don't see it in the last 6 pages or so...
How much difference from a generally untrained voice is there? And...if vocal training has been going...how much difference from there instead?
Looking for generoli ties as opposed to hz numbers.
Thanks.
Can somebody please newer this much since I don't see it in the last 6 pages or so...
How much difference from a generally untrained voice is there? And...if vocal training has been going...how much difference from there instead?
Looking for generoli ties as opposed to hz numbers.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
Quote from: anonymous79 on December 04, 2014, 01:24:18 PM
72 pages.. whew...not enough time to read up all of it.
Can somebody please newer this much since I don't see it in the last 6 pages or so...
How much difference from a generally untrained voice is there? And...if vocal training has been going...how much difference from there instead?
Looking for generoli ties as opposed to hz numbers.
Thanks.
There are quite a few videos and sound clips posted here. In a nutshell the difference is quite dramatic. I would instantly gender the "fixed" voice female in an instant.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessika on December 04, 2014, 01:44:26 PM
Post by: Jessika on December 04, 2014, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 11:14:48 AMYes, I only posted the link since you were contemplating e-mailing them less than 30 mins after I replied to your post. :)
Thanks but that's the same email I got.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 04, 2014, 08:24:45 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 04, 2014, 08:24:45 PM
Quote from: anonymous79 on December 04, 2014, 01:24:18 PM
72 pages.. whew...not enough time to read up all of it.
Can somebody please newer this much since I don't see it in the last 6 pages or so...
How much difference from a generally untrained voice is there? And...if vocal training has been going...how much difference from there instead?
Looking for generoli ties as opposed to hz numbers.
Thanks.
Well, male vocal chords are long, while female chords are short, so they shorten your vocal chords to match female vocal chords, thus cutting off lower frequencies and allowing you to easily speak in the female range. However, you do need voice training after during recovery to boost it up. My range has doubled the expected pitch of 75 Hz by training it. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 09:59:14 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 04, 2014, 09:59:14 PM
I sent them my natural voice. They also made me do "ah" for 10 seconds twice, which I am guessing is to check for vocal tremors. I think I have, so I might be getting botox too.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: byakuren25 on December 04, 2014, 10:43:15 PM
Post by: byakuren25 on December 04, 2014, 10:43:15 PM
Hi Everyone,
Everything sounds so amazing here and a lot of people seem to be having amazing results. Its nice to see how this surgery can change so much by making someone to happy, (referring to you lovelyjmi :) so see extremely overjoyed and love the continual updates + also look forward to your singing update).But I have a few questions that I'm worried about and I hope someone could help me out.
1) I speak at around 160hz normally on a casual basis, and as you can see from lovelyjmi, her pitch has increased significantly, but she had started at 137 so I guess it was a great change for her, but if I have the same results I could end up speaking at 308hz and that would sound a bit too high and as an average it would be a bit child like. But I had been told by Jessie that people who have the laryngeal shave experience a minor drop in pitch, and thus I was thinking even with the 74hz increase, the minor pitch drop wouldn't effect me too much. So does anyone here have an results on how much of a drop people could probably encounter after the surgery has taken place.
2) One of my main reasons to do this surgery is to be able to sing in a female range. I'm not a professional singer (not that good) but I do love to sing nevertheless. So for the people who have had the surgery and are well into recovery, I was wondering if you could post you pre/post-op results of vocal capabilities. So for example like fry/chest/head/falsetto (if so)/whistle (vocally)/belts(especially this one) etc. I remember reading Jenny's results and I was amazed, but more results can help to really make a decision.
3) Also another question for post-ops, how long did it take for you to start actually properly reusing your whole range and you did prior to surgery and (for those that understand musical stuff and piano notes) did your range increase sequentially? By this I mean, did your chest voice raise 3/4 of an octave and as did you head and other registers, or was it more like, chest voice increased by 3/4 of an octave and the head voice only 1/2 and octave and continually getting smaller increases as you go up. For this in notes I mean chest voice (highest changing from E4 to C5) and head voice going from (highest E5 to C6) or was it more like chest (E4 to C5) and then for head (E5 to A5). These figure are not exact but relative and I hope you understand what I mean.
I apologize if this was the wrong place to post these questions and sorry for being so long and extensive lol, I didn't really know how to explain everything simply and yea. But thank you for reading anyway and hopefully someone can help me out.
Thanks everyone and good luck with the recovery and future surgery for those who haven't had it yet.
Everything sounds so amazing here and a lot of people seem to be having amazing results. Its nice to see how this surgery can change so much by making someone to happy, (referring to you lovelyjmi :) so see extremely overjoyed and love the continual updates + also look forward to your singing update).But I have a few questions that I'm worried about and I hope someone could help me out.
1) I speak at around 160hz normally on a casual basis, and as you can see from lovelyjmi, her pitch has increased significantly, but she had started at 137 so I guess it was a great change for her, but if I have the same results I could end up speaking at 308hz and that would sound a bit too high and as an average it would be a bit child like. But I had been told by Jessie that people who have the laryngeal shave experience a minor drop in pitch, and thus I was thinking even with the 74hz increase, the minor pitch drop wouldn't effect me too much. So does anyone here have an results on how much of a drop people could probably encounter after the surgery has taken place.
2) One of my main reasons to do this surgery is to be able to sing in a female range. I'm not a professional singer (not that good) but I do love to sing nevertheless. So for the people who have had the surgery and are well into recovery, I was wondering if you could post you pre/post-op results of vocal capabilities. So for example like fry/chest/head/falsetto (if so)/whistle (vocally)/belts(especially this one) etc. I remember reading Jenny's results and I was amazed, but more results can help to really make a decision.
3) Also another question for post-ops, how long did it take for you to start actually properly reusing your whole range and you did prior to surgery and (for those that understand musical stuff and piano notes) did your range increase sequentially? By this I mean, did your chest voice raise 3/4 of an octave and as did you head and other registers, or was it more like, chest voice increased by 3/4 of an octave and the head voice only 1/2 and octave and continually getting smaller increases as you go up. For this in notes I mean chest voice (highest changing from E4 to C5) and head voice going from (highest E5 to C6) or was it more like chest (E4 to C5) and then for head (E5 to A5). These figure are not exact but relative and I hope you understand what I mean.
I apologize if this was the wrong place to post these questions and sorry for being so long and extensive lol, I didn't really know how to explain everything simply and yea. But thank you for reading anyway and hopefully someone can help me out.
Thanks everyone and good luck with the recovery and future surgery for those who haven't had it yet.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 04, 2014, 11:03:33 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 04, 2014, 11:03:33 PM
Thank you for the compliments!!
As I mentioned, I work at my voice with the exercises, so my pitch has gone up and up. My main goal is 250-260 for an average. If I didn't do the exercises, my voice would be much lower. Cause I do them 3-4-5 times a day just to give them a kick in the ass to stay high. Every day gets easier to maintain it though :)! <3
I think you shouldn't be worried. I've never heard an un-natural pitch so far. And they'd be able to assure you that with a voice demo. Try to stay positive! If you wanna be happy with your voice and you're unhappy now, just send them a demo and go for it :)! <3
As I mentioned, I work at my voice with the exercises, so my pitch has gone up and up. My main goal is 250-260 for an average. If I didn't do the exercises, my voice would be much lower. Cause I do them 3-4-5 times a day just to give them a kick in the ass to stay high. Every day gets easier to maintain it though :)! <3
I think you shouldn't be worried. I've never heard an un-natural pitch so far. And they'd be able to assure you that with a voice demo. Try to stay positive! If you wanna be happy with your voice and you're unhappy now, just send them a demo and go for it :)! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2014, 07:12:16 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2014, 07:12:16 AM
If a voice is naturally high in a totally relaxed state (!) meaning no (sub-) conscious change is done to it, I believe Dr Kim will be able to adapt the increase to your needs. Amy had a shorter part sutured for example because her vocal folds were already rather short and because she wanted to keep an Alto singing voice. As I understand it JMI as well as Jenny had more the extended version with more vocal chord length sutured. So it can be adapted.
Also I believe that voice training, which you are supposed to do anyways after a surgery or before or in general always ;) - will change the average pitch anyways and give an increase. If you speak monotonous, your average will be lower than if you speak with a lot of melody. What I think personally is, that the low ends of the spectrum one talks at are what counts a lot. If your average is 140 or 180 or 220 but your lowest notes in that are at 110 Hz - the voice will not sound totally female no matter what the average says. And I think this is what can only be fixed by surgery or somehow always speaking at a non relaxed voice.
Regarding pre-Yeson examinations - I heard up to now only of one case where the patient was sent back after the examination in Seoul because the examination showed that the pitch range was already female in range and Dr Kim recommended to rather train to get a feminine tone and sound to the voice instead of focussing on pitch. In my case he was warning me when I sent in the pre examination results that it would probably not be the best idea to do the surgery at the time and recommended voice rehab before doing a surgery. I think if I did not sent in the examination results, he still would have done the surgery but told me that it may take much longer for me to heal and get my voice right under these conditions, but I dont think he would have sent me home. So I think if you can do it, it may be a bonus, but it is not needed
Regarding the voice range shifts - From what I heard from others here and from my consultation with a voice doctor here, the lower register will be shortened - the very low notes will be gone, so that is an overall decrease in pitch range, the "break" from chest to head voice will not shift a lot, because it apparently does not that strongly depend on gender anyways. The upper range seems to be a bit of a game of luck. In most cases it seems to go down a lot right after surgery and then increase again - in many cases it seems to return to near where it was before surgery, in quite a few cases it seems to have gone up a small bit even. Overall I understand it that the gain in the upper limit of pitch is not always very pronounced and usually does not compensate the loss in the lowest pitch range in terms of musical notes. If whistling works afterwards - that would be interesting to know.
Maybe the musicians here can explain it a lot better
Also I believe that voice training, which you are supposed to do anyways after a surgery or before or in general always ;) - will change the average pitch anyways and give an increase. If you speak monotonous, your average will be lower than if you speak with a lot of melody. What I think personally is, that the low ends of the spectrum one talks at are what counts a lot. If your average is 140 or 180 or 220 but your lowest notes in that are at 110 Hz - the voice will not sound totally female no matter what the average says. And I think this is what can only be fixed by surgery or somehow always speaking at a non relaxed voice.
Regarding pre-Yeson examinations - I heard up to now only of one case where the patient was sent back after the examination in Seoul because the examination showed that the pitch range was already female in range and Dr Kim recommended to rather train to get a feminine tone and sound to the voice instead of focussing on pitch. In my case he was warning me when I sent in the pre examination results that it would probably not be the best idea to do the surgery at the time and recommended voice rehab before doing a surgery. I think if I did not sent in the examination results, he still would have done the surgery but told me that it may take much longer for me to heal and get my voice right under these conditions, but I dont think he would have sent me home. So I think if you can do it, it may be a bonus, but it is not needed
Regarding the voice range shifts - From what I heard from others here and from my consultation with a voice doctor here, the lower register will be shortened - the very low notes will be gone, so that is an overall decrease in pitch range, the "break" from chest to head voice will not shift a lot, because it apparently does not that strongly depend on gender anyways. The upper range seems to be a bit of a game of luck. In most cases it seems to go down a lot right after surgery and then increase again - in many cases it seems to return to near where it was before surgery, in quite a few cases it seems to have gone up a small bit even. Overall I understand it that the gain in the upper limit of pitch is not always very pronounced and usually does not compensate the loss in the lowest pitch range in terms of musical notes. If whistling works afterwards - that would be interesting to know.
Maybe the musicians here can explain it a lot better
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 05, 2014, 08:51:59 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 05, 2014, 08:51:59 AM
I can go very low if I want right now, almost down to 75Hz. I actually do a very good Michael Savage or Howard Stern voice. I did the rainbow passage for Yeson pre-analysis and my mean pitch is 139.1 So a normal relaxed, speaking voice with regular volume is around 140Hz. If I get the claimed 75Hz pitch increase I'll be ecstatic. I am not really aiming to go squeaky high but at least above 200.
Come to think of it I have myself naturally speaking in a podcast somewhere as well as on TV. Let me see if I can find it. This was this last Summer so it's pretty recent.
Come to think of it I have myself naturally speaking in a podcast somewhere as well as on TV. Let me see if I can find it. This was this last Summer so it's pretty recent.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 05, 2014, 11:31:36 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 05, 2014, 11:31:36 AM
Yep, 132.7Hz during normal conversation.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 05, 2014, 12:28:35 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 05, 2014, 12:28:35 PM
Correct Aurora. What you said about speaking melodically, that's how women usually talk. That's the "Throat" voice. While men are speaking more from the chest. If you keep talking from the chest, you'll have a much lower outcome. I speak from the throat all the time. I believe most of the impressive videos you see, are of people who learned to do that too :)! If you ask me, that's what gives the best results as of sound.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 05, 2014, 02:04:31 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 05, 2014, 02:04:31 PM
There are a few things that distinguish male and female voices.
First is pitch. This by itself makes a huge difference.
The second is resonance. This is the voice coming from head or chest.
The third is prosody. Prosody in a typical female voice is a musical sing-songy type of voice that is natural for cis women but takes practice for trans. This is also where men and women pronounce things differently and may have a different cadence to their voices.
First is pitch. This by itself makes a huge difference.
The second is resonance. This is the voice coming from head or chest.
The third is prosody. Prosody in a typical female voice is a musical sing-songy type of voice that is natural for cis women but takes practice for trans. This is also where men and women pronounce things differently and may have a different cadence to their voices.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2014, 03:00:36 PM
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2014, 03:00:36 PM
Jamie, yes of course - one needs to use a female register anyways. otherwise the voice is all harsh and has a deep timbre and soulds masculine. That would be the "chest resonance". If you do that, pitch does only help to a small degree. So getting the voice "cleaner" also makes it sound higher pitched even if it is not. I had the experience when I worked on this thing this year again, I had my pitch drop because of my voice damage but I improved resonance again and people told me that I talk "higher" now and that this suits me well. Praat says the opposite of course ;)
But melody or prosody or intonation really make a big difference. From the gender perception of course , but also they get the average pitch all changed. I tried - monotonous speaking voice - F0 is about 140 Hz - with really a lot of melody and prosody (but without being silly about it), 190 Hz. This is why i am very careful now about using F0 or average speaking pitch as a measure of how pitch is perceived as a voice factor to people.
But clearly - if you can get the "throat voice" that Jamie mentioned, or "head resonance" as some say - this is IMO really what makes a huge difference and i also think that those videos with good voices all have this "nailed" ;)
Its tough if you dont manage to get this done - I think in that case also a voice surgery may help , but only to a degree as this part of the puzzle needs to be found as well to make the voice complete.
But melody or prosody or intonation really make a big difference. From the gender perception of course , but also they get the average pitch all changed. I tried - monotonous speaking voice - F0 is about 140 Hz - with really a lot of melody and prosody (but without being silly about it), 190 Hz. This is why i am very careful now about using F0 or average speaking pitch as a measure of how pitch is perceived as a voice factor to people.
But clearly - if you can get the "throat voice" that Jamie mentioned, or "head resonance" as some say - this is IMO really what makes a huge difference and i also think that those videos with good voices all have this "nailed" ;)
Its tough if you dont manage to get this done - I think in that case also a voice surgery may help , but only to a degree as this part of the puzzle needs to be found as well to make the voice complete.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 05, 2014, 09:56:31 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 05, 2014, 09:56:31 PM
Indeed. I'm sorta sing songy, but not all women are sing songy either. I have my certain type of character that defines me. And I'm still called miss 101% of the time now :)! <3
Like, I hate to say this, but a lot of people are trying way too hard to be super cliche femmy girls... just be yourself! I've never been miss-gendered for the way I sound or act now :)! <3
Like, I hate to say this, but a lot of people are trying way too hard to be super cliche femmy girls... just be yourself! I've never been miss-gendered for the way I sound or act now :)! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2014, 11:41:59 PM
Post by: anjaq on December 05, 2014, 11:41:59 PM
Very true Jamie - many are just trying to hard, probably sometimes also just to overcome the voice shortcomings they have otherwise
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 05, 2014, 11:55:11 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 05, 2014, 11:55:11 PM
I just find that, and this isn't everyone, but a lot of trans men and women just try way too hard to be super girly or manly. All we want is to be accepted correctly, but sometimes it just comes off as un-natural when we try too hard. So really, being yourself, makes you more natural. Regardless as to what you think a woman should sound like or not. I mean, who's judging now when we say a woman should always be ditzy or head spoken. It just doesn't work for everyone. If I did that stuff, people would be like, wtf? I have attitude and character. I like to be out there and loud. I do act girly though, just not the stereotype you know? I've never once been told since VFS that I sound un-natural. In fact, I've been told I sound SO girly and come off as super happy now. And I think, that's the most important thing here. Being happy and acting like yourself.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 06, 2014, 01:30:56 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 06, 2014, 01:30:56 AM
Totally true - many transfolks seem to try and over-act. And some want to push that on you as well. I had to defend still wearing sneakers and wise Jeans and basically very few makeup when I transitioned because some people thought they had to push their womanly ideals on me LOL - But I was just me and this is what I found now a bit annoying about voice training - the idea to have to "learn how to speak properly" was putting me off. But apparently some of that is needed - even more so if your voice is naturally low. But then I tend to feel like I am "faking" it. And wait, what was the goal of transition again, to just be me and free?!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on December 06, 2014, 03:24:23 PM
Post by: ElleA on December 06, 2014, 03:24:23 PM
So I've booked my filights, and now everything is real. I am actually going! I always seem to talk about having surgery for so long and then it all seems to get booked and done within a matter of weeks
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 06, 2014, 05:48:35 PM
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 06, 2014, 05:48:35 PM
Quote from: Jess-Taku on December 01, 2014, 12:31:55 PM
Ahah, this!
my mum is dead set against me travelling out to get this operation... But after being so inspired by all the girls who've had it done... It's kinda hard to let her drag me down ;p
But seriously, i think she's mainly worried about the results... She's 'seen results that have reverted' on the tv, and i gotta be honest, i haven't got a way to disprove to her that 1 year... 2 years... down the line my voice won't have lost the higher pitch...
To that end, and only if anyone who's got some result of 1 year+ post-op with Yeson, me and mum would love to hear your results!! :D
x x x
Did anyone have any feedback on this? ^_^
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on December 06, 2014, 10:49:37 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on December 06, 2014, 10:49:37 PM
Quote from: Jess-Taku on December 06, 2014, 05:48:35 PM
Did anyone have any feedback on this? ^_^
In spite of the awesome short-term results and anecdontes of the voice continuing to get better over time, I have to say I agree. I know people want their privacy and I totally respect that, for how many post-op vids we have it's kind of a shock that Sarah's 1-year'ish vid is the longest we have of anyone.
If it was presented to a voice symposium in 2007, where are the people from even, say, 2010?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on December 07, 2014, 12:14:45 AM
Post by: ElleA on December 07, 2014, 12:14:45 AM
I have to say that until Jenny I don't think that there were any westerners that have had surgery from Yeson. I think that it is also a surgery that a lot of us don't want talk about long term as we just want to get on with our lives. This is the same for most surgeries, I am sure if you asked Jenny or Sarah how they feel about the surgery now they would still be stoked.
I think it a misnomer to expect people to keep showing there results, it's not like you see women that have had breast implants showing there results off 12months later they just get on with life.
I think it a misnomer to expect people to keep showing there results, it's not like you see women that have had breast implants showing there results off 12months later they just get on with life.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on December 07, 2014, 10:09:58 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on December 07, 2014, 10:09:58 AM
You basically rehashed everything I just said. For something as imperative as the voice, and considering it's been good enough to present at an international voice symposium since 2007, I do think we deserve to hear results beyond a year or so.
Sure Yeson gave Jenny incentive to do vids, but what about the non-Westerners who've apparently had this done for a long time? Is there no reason to give long-term patients incentive to take 15 minutes of one day of their life to speak into a camera, blur their face out, and help prospective patients feel more secure in the long-term potential? Or is our world really so ADHD that only the immediate matters and not years down the line?
Bear in mind, I think the results we have bode extremely well for long-term potential, but I and others would like more than just prognostication when, quite frankly, it is a resource Yeson could tap.
Sure Yeson gave Jenny incentive to do vids, but what about the non-Westerners who've apparently had this done for a long time? Is there no reason to give long-term patients incentive to take 15 minutes of one day of their life to speak into a camera, blur their face out, and help prospective patients feel more secure in the long-term potential? Or is our world really so ADHD that only the immediate matters and not years down the line?
Bear in mind, I think the results we have bode extremely well for long-term potential, but I and others would like more than just prognostication when, quite frankly, it is a resource Yeson could tap.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 07, 2014, 01:26:46 PM
Post by: anjaq on December 07, 2014, 01:26:46 PM
I think there are some reports that glottoplasty is keeping the pitch up over the years. I have to ask a friend of mine if it was glottoplasty that she got about 15 years ago, but I think it was. But yes of course this is very sparse and people just seem to disappear after they are through with what they need. I did the same back then when I had all my surgeries and had done everything that was reasonably possible medically at that time. So I dont blame anyone becaus eI did also not really share my story to others how my GRS went and all of that. But I guess it would be possible to somehow pull some of those who came before back just for some short words.
I think there were a few Westerners at Yeson before - around the time I saw Jennys videos I also saw a documentary in which two Europeans went for voice surgery in Korea and GRS at Suporns. Also Jenny had I think two western language voice examples which made her go?
I think there were a few Westerners at Yeson before - around the time I saw Jennys videos I also saw a documentary in which two Europeans went for voice surgery in Korea and GRS at Suporns. Also Jenny had I think two western language voice examples which made her go?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on December 07, 2014, 02:09:40 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on December 07, 2014, 02:09:40 PM
I hope nobody assumes I'm suggesting that people are bad for falling off the face of the Earth after they're happy with the results - because that is, of course, to be expected.
I'm saying Yeson should incentivize long-term results. We know what 1-4 months sounds like, more of that is hardly a revelation at this point compared to what 1-4 years could be. You can't reasonably expect more than a handful of exceptional people to go out of their way to provide such unless they're suitably rewarded.
I'm saying Yeson should incentivize long-term results. We know what 1-4 months sounds like, more of that is hardly a revelation at this point compared to what 1-4 years could be. You can't reasonably expect more than a handful of exceptional people to go out of their way to provide such unless they're suitably rewarded.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Livvykins on December 09, 2014, 06:01:42 AM
Post by: Livvykins on December 09, 2014, 06:01:42 AM
Quote from: Rachelicious on December 07, 2014, 02:09:40 PM
I hope nobody assumes I'm suggesting that people are bad for falling off the face of the Earth after they're happy with the results - because that is, of course, to be expected.
I'm saying Yeson should incentivize long-term results. We know what 1-4 months sounds like, more of that is hardly a revelation at this point compared to what 1-4 years could be. You can't reasonably expect more than a handful of exceptional people to go out of their way to provide such unless they're suitably rewarded.
Hey there, well I posted my 5 months vid the other day. Jessie has asked me to record one every month for a year, and I fully intend to do so. I agree, there aren't enough videos for the later stages of healing. I know Jamie will be doing the same as well.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 09, 2014, 11:38:16 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 09, 2014, 11:38:16 PM
Yup I will!! Bloody month 4 is nearing me ever so slightly lolll...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 10, 2014, 03:44:35 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 10, 2014, 03:44:35 AM
Hey - I just have booked a date as well, finally. February 25th. OMG - I feel very weird now but excited :D - Will anybody here be there in that time?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on December 10, 2014, 06:24:50 PM
Post by: ReDucks on December 10, 2014, 06:24:50 PM
Quote from: anjaq on December 10, 2014, 03:44:35 AM
Hey - I just have booked a date as well, finally. February 25th. OMG - I feel very weird now but excited :D - Will anybody here be there in that time?
CONGRATS! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 11, 2014, 03:13:47 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 11, 2014, 03:13:47 AM
Holy funk. My embarrassing Yeson interview is up now! Enjoy it yo!
http://youtu.be/xMTuaYk_qdk
http://youtu.be/xMTuaYk_qdk
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: warmbody28 on December 11, 2014, 08:18:17 AM
Post by: warmbody28 on December 11, 2014, 08:18:17 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on December 11, 2014, 03:13:47 AM
Holy funk. My embarrassing Yeson interview is up now! Enjoy it yo!
http://youtu.be/xMTuaYk_qdk
i really liked your video. it was a good way to answer questions
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 11, 2014, 09:14:57 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 11, 2014, 09:14:57 AM
Hey thank ya!! <3 I tried to make it a little more fun than just sitting in front of a camera and belting out answers haha!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 11, 2014, 11:22:05 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 11, 2014, 11:22:05 AM
Hehe - the video is really cool. I would be such a contrast, being on the opposite edge of the extrovert-introvert spectrum ;)
There totally needs to be a Rainbow Passage compilation with samples from all the ones who had been at Yeson and some music added ;)
There totally needs to be a Rainbow Passage compilation with samples from all the ones who had been at Yeson and some music added ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 16, 2014, 05:56:17 AM
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 16, 2014, 05:56:17 AM
Quote from: ElleA on December 07, 2014, 12:14:45 AM
I have to say that until Jenny I don't think that there were any westerners that have had surgery from Yeson. I think that it is also a surgery that a lot of us don't want talk about long term as we just want to get on with our lives. This is the same for most surgeries, I am sure if you asked Jenny or Sarah how they feel about the surgery now they would still be stoked.
I think it a misnomer to expect people to keep showing there results, it's not like you see women that have had breast implants showing there results off 12months later they just get on with life.
Hey Elle, i never expected anyone to 'keep showing results' and fully understand reluctance to keep uploading data. Having said that, i had merely asked if anyone had done so. It would be nice know that 1 year onwards, 2 years on... The voice is still great quality! If i get a response, brilliant! If not, no big deal, i'll just continue to be unsure :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 16, 2014, 05:58:18 AM
Post by: Jess-Taku on December 16, 2014, 05:58:18 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on December 11, 2014, 03:13:47 AM
Holy funk. My embarrassing Yeson interview is up now! Enjoy it yo!
http://youtu.be/xMTuaYk_qdk
This is great! :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 04:21:49 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 04:21:49 AM
Thank you!! It only gets better.. especially mid month 3!! OMFG!
http://youtu.be/x9GsRZe--yE
http://youtu.be/x9GsRZe--yE
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 09:06:09 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 09:06:09 AM
Thats pretty crazy :) (y) - how much did he shorten your vocal chords and did he say anything about how long they were pre op?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 09:19:48 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 09:19:48 AM
not sure.. I have my after op pics .. but I'd have to ask.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 09:34:23 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 09:34:23 AM
Oh - does he not plan talk about this in the consultation? I know Amy was told her vocal chords are alreday rather short, so they did a shorter suture of less than 1/3, most get 1/3, Jenny hat 1/2 of the length shortened...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 09:58:47 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 09:58:47 AM
*sigh* again searching for bad things... fine let me rephrase that, "I don't remember what he told me." Dr. Kim and his team are some of the most amazing people in the world, they tell you ever inch and every detail. You have nothing to worry about. I just have very short term memory.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 10:12:14 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 10:12:14 AM
Nooo :( - I am not searching for bad things, I was just puzzled for a moment because the other women here were reporting about how much of their vocal chords was shortened and I just assumed that you had the information as well. Sorry for that :( - I guess I am just a med geek that way. I always keep all the records and examination reports that I can get at any doctor ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 10:18:30 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 17, 2014, 10:18:30 AM
Well for me, I just don't care what they did, as long as it worked. It's not like it'll make a difference anyways as everyone is different and gets different things. But, my results speak for themselves! It was a success and I'm more than pleased :)!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on December 17, 2014, 10:55:11 AM
Post by: Wynternight on December 17, 2014, 10:55:11 AM
What are the exercises you have to do to get the desired results?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 01:55:28 PM
Post by: anjaq on December 17, 2014, 01:55:28 PM
Indeed, Jamie, its the result that counts in the end and you really cannot complain at all ;) - 270 Hz - so amazing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Damara on December 19, 2014, 12:17:12 AM
Post by: Damara on December 19, 2014, 12:17:12 AM
i'm also curious about the exercises! It seems that they exist but I have no idea in what form they're given.. are they written instruction? DVD? CD? lol! Sorry if this is a silly question!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 19, 2014, 01:45:51 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 19, 2014, 01:45:51 AM
There's a paper, but there's a video too! Funnily enough, some get the paper, and some get the video.. and rarely, get both. Thankfully, most of us have one or the other and we trade around XD! lol!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 19, 2014, 11:12:39 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 19, 2014, 11:12:39 AM
They have the videos online on their website.
http://www.yesonvc.net/disease/voiceMovie6.asp
http://www.yesonvc.net/disease/voiceMovie6.asp
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 20, 2014, 05:15:54 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 20, 2014, 05:15:54 AM
Personally I think that in addition to that - depending if you had voice therapy before - it cannot hurt to do some voice rehab with a real person as well. I think they can give you better feedback than to try doing all of this just with your smartphone ;)
My voice doctor will very likely give me at least 20 hours or voice therapy on insurance (yay) after the VFS, so I can work with that in addition to the exercises. She can then also work on improving my resonance and timbre and speech melody if needed. Plus at least here these sessions are always fun. I usually chat with her half of the time and then we read funny texts or do some singing... I am actually a bit sad that I will have to take a 3 month break of that now, but as I understand it, voice exercises should be done only 3 month post op.
My voice doctor will very likely give me at least 20 hours or voice therapy on insurance (yay) after the VFS, so I can work with that in addition to the exercises. She can then also work on improving my resonance and timbre and speech melody if needed. Plus at least here these sessions are always fun. I usually chat with her half of the time and then we read funny texts or do some singing... I am actually a bit sad that I will have to take a 3 month break of that now, but as I understand it, voice exercises should be done only 3 month post op.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nadia-t on December 20, 2014, 05:30:47 AM
Post by: Nadia-t on December 20, 2014, 05:30:47 AM
Hello! I have been a secret reader for quite some time, and i also had the op at Yeson november 25th, thanks for all of you ladies who posted on here, without you i wouldn't have gone.
I am just 5 days away from being able to talk but im a bit concerned as i need to start working in Christmas and all the words i say they just sound so bad and hoarse still.
These weeks have been like hell not being able to talk, work or exercise. And i must admit i have whispered at my boyfriend many days, as we live together and find it so slow having to write down everything to communicate.
Could this be the reason (the whispering) im healing so slow and my voice still sounding so badly?
I am just 5 days away from being able to talk but im a bit concerned as i need to start working in Christmas and all the words i say they just sound so bad and hoarse still.
These weeks have been like hell not being able to talk, work or exercise. And i must admit i have whispered at my boyfriend many days, as we live together and find it so slow having to write down everything to communicate.
Could this be the reason (the whispering) im healing so slow and my voice still sounding so badly?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 20, 2014, 06:00:49 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 20, 2014, 06:00:49 AM
I read somewhere , I think Jenny said that, that whispering is as bad or worse as just speaking :( - so maybe it would be better to not whisper but rather speak normally then if it is needed.
I wonder how this is going to be - 4 weeks not speaking... I actually bought a Smartphone now and installed an app for voice disabled people on it - I need to see if this works. One can obviously just type and show but also it can read the text, it also has the option to use and also to stroe new predefined sentences and words. I think it will weird me out to use this and speak with a computer voice like a cyborg ;)
I wonder how this is going to be - 4 weeks not speaking... I actually bought a Smartphone now and installed an app for voice disabled people on it - I need to see if this works. One can obviously just type and show but also it can read the text, it also has the option to use and also to stroe new predefined sentences and words. I think it will weird me out to use this and speak with a computer voice like a cyborg ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 20, 2014, 04:04:35 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 20, 2014, 04:04:35 PM
It is bad, but a few tiny times won't destroy/wreck anything :P!! You just need to be careful. Believe me, I think none of us followed the rules 100% ... gawd knows I talked a lot more than I should have... and my pitch level max has gotten to "278 Hz". So don't worry about it ;)!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Nadia-t on December 21, 2014, 06:17:06 AM
Post by: Nadia-t on December 21, 2014, 06:17:06 AM
Aww thank you girls <3
Anjaq- I actually downloaded the app "text to speech" and been using it outside in shops etc to order but if its a noisy place u will have to show it to them. Although they freak out a bit and people start asking what happens to my voice, and tell me i should take medicines lol
Lovelyjmi- thanks i feel a bit better now, knowing i wasnt the only one. I will not say a word now until wednesday that i can speak again and hopefully i heal a bit more. Just wish i would get same outstanding results as you !
Anjaq- I actually downloaded the app "text to speech" and been using it outside in shops etc to order but if its a noisy place u will have to show it to them. Although they freak out a bit and people start asking what happens to my voice, and tell me i should take medicines lol
Lovelyjmi- thanks i feel a bit better now, knowing i wasnt the only one. I will not say a word now until wednesday that i can speak again and hopefully i heal a bit more. Just wish i would get same outstanding results as you !
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 21, 2014, 11:35:48 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 21, 2014, 11:35:48 AM
Ah. I am still looking for a good app that works better. The one I have now is called "Speech assistant", I believe and it has the option to download a higher quality audio generator and it has buttons for preset words that are customizable. It looks pretty neat. I just need to learn to type faster on this little smartphone screen
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 21, 2014, 06:54:42 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 21, 2014, 06:54:42 PM
I'm so worried lol, I have kids and I have to constantly talk and yell behind them. Going to be interesting when I get the surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 21, 2014, 07:38:07 PM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 21, 2014, 07:38:07 PM
Ahhh you're welcome!! Believe me, it's SO hard not to talk... I mean .. come on.. who doesn't wanna hear their new voice XD? <3 I'm gonna put together a video with Olivia, to explain some new techniques we've come up with to help with recovery :) <3! Look forward to that!! We want everyone to have fantastic results!! <3
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on December 22, 2014, 02:40:41 AM
Post by: divineintervention on December 22, 2014, 02:40:41 AM
curious to know: Can you talk for hours with the new voice at 2 month post op?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 22, 2014, 03:40:33 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 22, 2014, 03:40:33 AM
Lol .... can I ever....
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 22, 2014, 03:58:03 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 22, 2014, 03:58:03 AM
If you have kids and a dog and other stuff going around, Kate, please make 100% sure that you have someone who really helps you. A friend of mine did not. She ran into a situation less than 2 weeks post op (not at Yeson but with a very similar technique) where the dog-and-kids situation escalated and she had to shout at them. This was the worst case scenario with the expected bad consequences. So really - make sour your SO or family can support you and take care of kids etc. Maybe get a whistle for emergencies - I dunno, but that voice rest in the first 2 weeks is very crucial, I think whispering or saying some words in the first month may be not so good but not doing too much damage, but shouting can be really bad.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on December 22, 2014, 09:19:24 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on December 22, 2014, 09:19:24 AM
Quote from: anjaq on December 22, 2014, 03:58:03 AM
If you have kids and a dog and other stuff going around, Kate, please make 100% sure that you have someone who really helps you. A friend of mine did not. She ran into a situation less than 2 weeks post op (not at Yeson but with a very similar technique) where the dog-and-kids situation escalated and she had to shout at them. This was the worst case scenario with the expected bad consequences. So really - make sour your SO or family can support you and take care of kids etc. Maybe get a whistle for emergencies - I dunno, but that voice rest in the first 2 weeks is very crucial, I think whispering or saying some words in the first month may be not so good but not doing too much damage, but shouting can be really bad.
Yeah I do plan on that... however it's natural. My son is SO bad sometimes. I wonder how I keep my sanity. :(
And the worst part is that my wife often just gives up and looks at me because the kids mostly listen to me, not her. I am the voice of authority in the house as I lay down the law. Going to be extremely hard. But I am determined to not let anything stop me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 22, 2014, 09:45:21 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 22, 2014, 09:45:21 AM
Thats what I meant - make sure beforehand that your kids understand this and that you S.O. has the authority for that time at least. Also that you are not left to be the only person who has authority in the room. I know its not easy, but you can make the arrangements beforehand now - if your son is misbehaving and your S.O. somtimes gives up on that, its even more important. It just is for 2-4 weeks, but especially in the beginning I believe it is really important. I know some people take a whistle and use that as an attention getter and "stop signal" in bad situations in that time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on December 27, 2014, 08:02:53 AM
Post by: divineintervention on December 27, 2014, 08:02:53 AM
Wish someone / would be grateful if someone could post a video of them singing with new voice!
I am getting my Yeson surgery next year and I am just excited to sing with a new voice! (I can never reach Ariana Grande notes now)
I am getting my Yeson surgery next year and I am just excited to sing with a new voice! (I can never reach Ariana Grande notes now)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 28, 2014, 04:38:25 PM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 28, 2014, 04:38:25 PM
Dear divineintervention,
I'm a professional musician (mostly piano/guitar) and had the Yeson surgery 8 months ago. My preconditions were far from ideal in that I had (for somebody who'd gone through male puberty) extremely short (about the size of an alto's), but thick vocal cords. I was a baritone before, with about Eb2-F4 chest voice, F4-C5 falsetto, C5-G#5 whistle.
Because of the shortened vocal cords, I have now about soprano vocal cord length, but due to the thickness, I have alto range. Chest voice starts from a C3, with full volume available from Eb3, that transitions smoothly into head voice at around G4. That's about the most important change: chest and head voice blend seamlessly now. If needed, I can belt chest voice up to B4. Head voice ends at around G5, and E5-G5 require sufficient support and quite some volume. I haven't been able to use whistle voice post-surgery (yet). Maybe I haven't found it yet, who knows.
I have been singing choir alto parts post-surgery no problem and am in the process of recording some of my own tunes. I can keep you posted on how that goes.
Regards,
Amy
Quote from: divineintervention on December 27, 2014, 08:02:53 AM
Wish someone / would be grateful if someone could post a video of them singing with new voice!
I am getting my Yeson surgery next year and I am just excited to sing with a new voice! (I can never reach Ariana Grande notes now)
I'm a professional musician (mostly piano/guitar) and had the Yeson surgery 8 months ago. My preconditions were far from ideal in that I had (for somebody who'd gone through male puberty) extremely short (about the size of an alto's), but thick vocal cords. I was a baritone before, with about Eb2-F4 chest voice, F4-C5 falsetto, C5-G#5 whistle.
Because of the shortened vocal cords, I have now about soprano vocal cord length, but due to the thickness, I have alto range. Chest voice starts from a C3, with full volume available from Eb3, that transitions smoothly into head voice at around G4. That's about the most important change: chest and head voice blend seamlessly now. If needed, I can belt chest voice up to B4. Head voice ends at around G5, and E5-G5 require sufficient support and quite some volume. I haven't been able to use whistle voice post-surgery (yet). Maybe I haven't found it yet, who knows.
I have been singing choir alto parts post-surgery no problem and am in the process of recording some of my own tunes. I can keep you posted on how that goes.
Regards,
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 28, 2014, 05:42:15 PM
Post by: anjaq on December 28, 2014, 05:42:15 PM
Neat - I noticed that you can reach the same upmost pitch now without whistle where before you needed whistle register :) - thats a nice gain - you did not loose anything in the upper range, but can use it differently now and maybe increase it if you manage to get whistle register again. I wonder what will happen to me. I can now go up to A#5, but I am not sure where whistle register starts since I am not a musician. I hope I can also keep that upper range or maybe even increase it with some exercises. If things go well, I think I may take singing lessons one day - it would be great to finally sing again. I lost the motivation when puberty hit :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 29, 2014, 02:24:37 AM
Post by: AmyBerlin on December 29, 2014, 02:24:37 AM
Hi Anja,
The transition into whistle happens around C5 +/- 2 semitones in a masculinized larynx, but doesn't feel like a "break". If you can sing notes significantly higher than that, you can be sure you have found whistle register. What happens physiologically is that the vocal cords "zip up" along part of their length from the commissure and only the rear part vibrates (much like the state post-VFS).
It may very well be that my current inability to whistle has to do with resistance from the vocal cords to "zip up" any further from the new commissure. They're already very short, and maybe a further shortening would make them so stiff they wouldn't vibrate at all.
Thou speakest to our condition.
Amy
Quote from: anjaq on December 28, 2014, 05:42:15 PM
I can now go up to A#5, but I am not sure where whistle register starts since I am not a musician.
The transition into whistle happens around C5 +/- 2 semitones in a masculinized larynx, but doesn't feel like a "break". If you can sing notes significantly higher than that, you can be sure you have found whistle register. What happens physiologically is that the vocal cords "zip up" along part of their length from the commissure and only the rear part vibrates (much like the state post-VFS).
It may very well be that my current inability to whistle has to do with resistance from the vocal cords to "zip up" any further from the new commissure. They're already very short, and maybe a further shortening would make them so stiff they wouldn't vibrate at all.
Quote from: anjaq on December 28, 2014, 05:42:15 PM
it would be great to finally sing again. I lost the motivation when puberty hit :(
Thou speakest to our condition.
Amy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on December 29, 2014, 04:29:12 AM
Post by: anjaq on December 29, 2014, 04:29:12 AM
Hmm - yes ok, I think whistle then may be the point where everything sounds like an "eee" - I am pretty sue I use that in the upper range - 930 Hz. My voice therapist is always fascinated that I can go there. If that would be the range without whistling post op, it would clearly be totally fine with me, I do not need the whistle then ;)
Maybe I can do it because I used to inactivate part of my vocal chords for years and simulate a VFS in a way to get my female voice - sadly it was unhealthy to do that all the time.
Maybe I can do it because I used to inactivate part of my vocal chords for years and simulate a VFS in a way to get my female voice - sadly it was unhealthy to do that all the time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jettsetter on December 30, 2014, 12:44:21 AM
Post by: jettsetter on December 30, 2014, 12:44:21 AM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on December 11, 2014, 03:13:47 AM
Holy funk. My embarrassing Yeson interview is up now! Enjoy it yo!
http://youtu.be/xMTuaYk_qdk
Great video... You are a riot. Amazing voice. I'm envious. I never knew that a surgery existed before that could produce such a beautiful result. Thank you for sharing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 31, 2014, 11:13:56 AM
Post by: lovelyjmi on December 31, 2014, 11:13:56 AM
Hey thanks!! It's even better now!! In fact, Yeson posted my month 3!
http://youtu.be/aeZ6SNLGP_c
http://youtu.be/aeZ6SNLGP_c
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on January 13, 2015, 07:58:10 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on January 13, 2015, 07:58:10 PM
I want to thank everyone for sharing so much about this procedure. I just scheduled a date with Yeson for early May. I never thought voice surgery was a viable option until I stumbled across this thread. Can't wait for May to get here!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on January 13, 2015, 08:09:41 PM
Post by: barbie on January 13, 2015, 08:09:41 PM
Quote from: Zoe Snow on January 13, 2015, 07:58:10 PM
I want to thank everyone for sharing so much about this procedure. I just scheduled a date with Yeson for early May. I never thought voice surgery was a viable option until I stumbled across this thread. Can't wait for May to get here!
Bring a nice mask to protect your throat from the episodic storms of yellow dust from China. Or, you can purchase one in Seoul. May is a nice season to visit Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessie_tran on January 13, 2015, 09:12:39 PM
Post by: Jessie_tran on January 13, 2015, 09:12:39 PM
Quote from: lovelyjmi on November 12, 2014, 12:24:37 AM
The crazy thing is, Dr. Kim says my pitch should increase even further! I'm so stoked!
I have listened to all the samples at much high hertz but 218 seems to be the more natural sounding. At 265-270 it sounds very strained and much higher then the average female voice. What are the rest of your opinions.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 14, 2015, 04:45:01 AM
Post by: anjaq on January 14, 2015, 04:45:01 AM
Personally I would love to get to 200 Hz, maybe 220, but not higher. I think it would not fit me. So I think I will ask Dr Kim to be modest enough to get there. But since my original pitch is at 110-130 Hz, the normal average increase of 75 Hz would perfectly do it for me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElizMarie on January 14, 2015, 10:46:11 AM
Post by: ElizMarie on January 14, 2015, 10:46:11 AM
Wow, J-Mi. What a change. It's amazing that your pitch ended up that high, but it's a good thing. No one will ever mistake you for male again.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on January 14, 2015, 12:44:32 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on January 14, 2015, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: barbie on January 13, 2015, 08:09:41 PM
Bring a nice mask to protect your throat from the episodic storms of yellow dust from China. Or, you can purchase one in Seoul. May is a nice season to visit Seoul.
barbie~~
How is it in Summer? That's when I'm shooting for.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on January 14, 2015, 12:46:05 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on January 14, 2015, 12:46:05 PM
Quote from: anjaq on January 14, 2015, 04:45:01 AM
Personally I would love to get to 200 Hz, maybe 220, but not higher. I think it would not fit me. So I think I will ask Dr Kim to be modest enough to get there. But since my original pitch is at 110-130 Hz, the normal average increase of 75 Hz would perfectly do it for me.
I'm in the same boat more or less. Natural speaking voice is around 130Hz so 75Hz increase would put me nicely at 205Hz. With a little practice I can probably get up to "average female" range of 220Hz or maybe I can ask Dr Kim what he can do.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on January 14, 2015, 09:05:25 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on January 14, 2015, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: Zoe Snow on January 13, 2015, 07:58:10 PM
I want to thank everyone for sharing so much about this procedure. I just scheduled a date with Yeson for early May. I never thought voice surgery was a viable option until I stumbled across this thread. Can't wait for May to get here!
Me too. I'll be there the 2nd full week of May. I had to wait until the end of the semester. And it's going to be such a distraction during finals week.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 14, 2015, 11:24:06 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 14, 2015, 11:24:06 PM
Quote from: barbie on January 13, 2015, 08:09:41 PMSo how is climate and smog in the end of February? I will be there in 6 weeks. Probably still very cold. Maybe snow? So probably no sightseeing in the national parks.
Bring a nice mask to protect your throat from the episodic storms of yellow dust from China.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on January 17, 2015, 11:44:29 AM
Post by: barbie on January 17, 2015, 11:44:29 AM
Quote from: ImagineKate on January 14, 2015, 12:44:32 PM
How is it in Summer? That's when I'm shooting for.
In summer, it will be fine.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndmi.go.kr%2Fcommon%2Fimages%2Fcontents%2Fknow_1601.jpg&hash=738345565b0faaa232f889c1d398a6ef07b0ad05)
<Monthly frequency of yellow dust in South Korea (right panel)>
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 17, 2015, 01:21:36 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 17, 2015, 01:21:36 PM
Oh great, so end of February is the worst month for that? Great! I picked totally the wrong date. Horrible exchange rate, yellow dust and coldness. Sigh.
Ah well - it was the only date possible for me and in the museums and shops there will hopefully be neither cold nor smog. So we just have to do more indoors stuff. I still hope to find some good XXL clothes shopping - I doubt any korean shop will have my size, then shopping gets frustrating.
Ah well - it was the only date possible for me and in the museums and shops there will hopefully be neither cold nor smog. So we just have to do more indoors stuff. I still hope to find some good XXL clothes shopping - I doubt any korean shop will have my size, then shopping gets frustrating.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on January 17, 2015, 11:22:41 PM
Post by: barbie on January 17, 2015, 11:22:41 PM
Quote from: anjaq on January 17, 2015, 01:21:36 PM
Oh great, so end of February is the worst month for that? Great! I picked totally the wrong date. Horrible exchange rate, yellow dust and coldness. Sigh.
End of February is not so bad. March is the worst period. Anyway, Seoul is very cold in winter and very hot in summer. Still, you may enjoy some outdoor activities.
A lot of people here travel abroad because of dropping exchange rate.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 18, 2015, 03:25:18 AM
Post by: anjaq on January 18, 2015, 03:25:18 AM
i wonder what we can do. in that time in Seoul. Its end of February and Beginning of March. I wont go skiing, thats pretty sure :P - maybe better indoors stuff and some sightseeing of the old village? Any other good tips? ;)
Our exchange rate is horrible. Yeson costs me now $1000 more in my currency than it would have cost a year ago and food and hotel will also be 20% more expensive.
By the way - how many days after surgery should one plan to not do any activities? I was thinking 1 or 2 days are probably spend just recovering from the anaesthesia?
Our exchange rate is horrible. Yeson costs me now $1000 more in my currency than it would have cost a year ago and food and hotel will also be 20% more expensive.
By the way - how many days after surgery should one plan to not do any activities? I was thinking 1 or 2 days are probably spend just recovering from the anaesthesia?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 19, 2015, 04:18:52 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 19, 2015, 04:18:52 PM
I booked a room at the Phil Guest House, it is recommended by Yeson and Amy here. It is roughly 50 EU a night I think and it has room enough for me any another person that comes along with me, I think tha tis a good deal. I was just b*tching about everything outside the EU getting 20-30% more expensive due to the exchange rate dropping into an abyss :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on January 19, 2015, 04:21:55 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on January 19, 2015, 04:21:55 PM
LOL, I'm hoping the exchange rate holds up so my US$ is worth more when I'm ready to go.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 19, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 19, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
Unfair! :P :( - at least I paid all now and even bought KRW so I dont loose more by waiting
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Alaia on January 21, 2015, 06:05:05 PM
Post by: Alaia on January 21, 2015, 06:05:05 PM
I'm thinking more and more that this will be the first surgery I pay out of pocket for. There's just so many times where I just loose control and go back down to my male sounding voice. I hate it.
Then there's singing, I like singing, and I've got a great singing voice--for a guy. I can even hit some pretty high notes, but it just sounds like a guy up in his falsetto. And I don't want to sound like a guy singing high in his falsetto :/
I seem to recall Jenny or someone saying that they were able to hit their higher notes afterwards without it sounding falsetto or strained. I really want that if it is possible with this surgery.
Then there's singing, I like singing, and I've got a great singing voice--for a guy. I can even hit some pretty high notes, but it just sounds like a guy up in his falsetto. And I don't want to sound like a guy singing high in his falsetto :/
I seem to recall Jenny or someone saying that they were able to hit their higher notes afterwards without it sounding falsetto or strained. I really want that if it is possible with this surgery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on January 22, 2015, 03:14:41 AM
Post by: ElleA on January 22, 2015, 03:14:41 AM
I hope so too Alaia, I have my surgery in 8 days now.
It's a little bit weird to think you will go in fine and then not be able to speak for up to a month after, so many questions in my head about how I will sound.
It's a little bit weird to think you will go in fine and then not be able to speak for up to a month after, so many questions in my head about how I will sound.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 04:45:44 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 04:45:44 AM
Quote from: Alaia on January 21, 2015, 06:05:05 PM
I'm thinking more and more that this will be the first surgery I pay out of pocket for. There's just so many times where I just loose control and go back down to my male sounding voice. I hate it.
Then there's singing, I like singing, and I've got a great singing voice--for a guy. I can even hit some pretty high notes, but it just sounds like a guy up in his falsetto. And I don't want to sound like a guy singing high in his falsetto :/
I seem to recall Jenny or someone saying that they were able to hit their higher notes afterwards without it sounding falsetto or strained. I really want that if it is possible with this surgery.
One of the many reasons I want it is because I might slip back. In public with the kids instinct just takes over.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 11:24:45 AM
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 11:24:45 AM
Quote from: Alaia on January 21, 2015, 06:05:05 PM
I'm thinking more and more that this will be the first surgery I pay out of pocket for. There's just so many times where I just loose control and go back down to my male sounding voice. I hate it.
Then there's singing, I like singing, and I've got a great singing voice--for a guy. I can even hit some pretty high notes, but it just sounds like a guy up in his falsetto. And I don't want to sound like a guy singing high in his falsetto :/
I seem to recall Jenny or someone saying that they were able to hit their higher notes afterwards without it sounding falsetto or strained. I really want that if it is possible with this surgery.
I'm with you. This and trach shave are going to be the out of pocket ones. If I do GRS with Bowers insurance will cover it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 11:48:12 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 11:48:12 AM
Just remember if you do trach shave you may not be a suitable candidate for Yeson.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 12:05:59 PM
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 11:48:12 AM
Just remember if you do trach shave you may not be a suitable candidate for Yeson.
I thought he was OK with it as long as it's done before the Yeson procedure.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 12:07:58 PM
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 12:07:58 PM
I found this thread from two years ago with a response from the Yeson Center:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=149644.0
"Dear Paige
When to have trachea shave doesn't matter. It anyway affects your voice if they make a high resection on your thyroid notch.
That's why we do not recommend it. If you really want to do that, we recommend you should receive the surgery with us to minimize the damage to your vocal folds."
And this:
"Dear Paige
Thank you for resending your e-mail :-)
Regarding your inquiry, Dr. Kim ,as a professional surgeon, will perform the thyroid cartilage shaving on you.
To not affect the outcome of VFS surgery, only a little ressection on your thyroid notch will be made.
Sorry before and after photos are not available. We will be glad to answer your further inquiries
Thank you and warm regards,"
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=149644.0
"Dear Paige
When to have trachea shave doesn't matter. It anyway affects your voice if they make a high resection on your thyroid notch.
That's why we do not recommend it. If you really want to do that, we recommend you should receive the surgery with us to minimize the damage to your vocal folds."
And this:
"Dear Paige
Thank you for resending your e-mail :-)
Regarding your inquiry, Dr. Kim ,as a professional surgeon, will perform the thyroid cartilage shaving on you.
To not affect the outcome of VFS surgery, only a little ressection on your thyroid notch will be made.
Sorry before and after photos are not available. We will be glad to answer your further inquiries
Thank you and warm regards,"
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 01:13:55 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on January 22, 2015, 01:13:55 PM
Yep if they do it it might be better.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 01:21:32 PM
Post by: Wynternight on January 22, 2015, 01:21:32 PM
Methinks I shall look into both at the same time with Dr. Kim.
I know Dr. O is tops but he's pricey and I do worry about how much cartilage he shaves.
I know Dr. O is tops but he's pricey and I do worry about how much cartilage he shaves.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on January 22, 2015, 01:51:30 PM
Post by: anjaq on January 22, 2015, 01:51:30 PM
I think this is really hard to say. I would probably go for Dr Kim with it - or at least get information from him how much to do. He will probably know best how much to remove. Other surgeons may be more concerned with getting rid of as much as possible to give the best look possible.
But be aware that there are different techniques on where to put the incision for trach shave - some are more visible than others. Some are directly at the neck, others are unter the chin.
I wonder how trach shave inferferes with VFS though - it is not a CTA voice surgery where one tensions up the vocal folds, ideall there should not be more tension on the trach after this VFS...
But be aware that there are different techniques on where to put the incision for trach shave - some are more visible than others. Some are directly at the neck, others are unter the chin.
I wonder how trach shave inferferes with VFS though - it is not a CTA voice surgery where one tensions up the vocal folds, ideall there should not be more tension on the trach after this VFS...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on January 23, 2015, 08:00:46 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on January 23, 2015, 08:00:46 AM
This is why Dr. Kim recommends against trach shave, unless it is really needed. Obviously we've had a couple cases get it done beforehand and turn out just great, but I'm pretty sure if the head voice doc in the world tells you a trach shave with his procedure is "doable" but not recommended, that probably means it's doable, but not really a risk you should want to consider. He also will probably be extremely minimal in removing tissue and probably focus more on changing the cartilage angle instead.
Get it done 2 months before so you get results you're happy with. This isn't like FFS where you're out for days and you can load on a bunch of procedures that don't compromise one another's healing.
Get it done 2 months before so you get results you're happy with. This isn't like FFS where you're out for days and you can load on a bunch of procedures that don't compromise one another's healing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on January 23, 2015, 10:03:21 AM
Post by: barbie on January 23, 2015, 10:03:21 AM
Quote from: anjaq on January 18, 2015, 03:25:18 AM
i wonder what we can do. in that time in Seoul. Its end of February and Beginning of March. I wont go skiing, thats pretty sure :P - maybe better indoors stuff and some sightseeing of the old village? Any other good tips? ;)
I am not quite sure, but some suggestions for indoor stuff.
The National Museum of Korea
http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/SI/SI_EN_3_1_1_1.jsp?cid=268137
Bukchon Hanok Village
http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/SI/SI_EN_3_1_1_1.jsp?cid=561382
Namdaemun market
http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/SH/SH_EN_7_2.jsp?cid=273760
N Seoul Tower
http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/SI/SI_EN_3_1_1_1.jsp?cid=264550
For more destinations:
http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/mapInfo.kto?func_name=depth2&md=enu&lang_se=ENG&area_code=1
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eveline on January 30, 2015, 02:04:20 PM
Post by: Eveline on January 30, 2015, 02:04:20 PM
I remember how excited I was when Jennygirl started this thread. Compared to all the other scary procedures I read about, this one seemed unbelievably safe and effective.
Well it's two years later and I finally get to go! :)
I'm planning to be at Yeson Voice Center during the 3rd and 4th weeks of April. Anybody else going to be there?
BTW, thanks to everyone who has posted in this tread - it's a great testament to Dr. Kim's work...
Well it's two years later and I finally get to go! :)
I'm planning to be at Yeson Voice Center during the 3rd and 4th weeks of April. Anybody else going to be there?
BTW, thanks to everyone who has posted in this tread - it's a great testament to Dr. Kim's work...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on January 30, 2015, 02:20:10 PM
Post by: ElleA on January 30, 2015, 02:20:10 PM
Good luck newgrrrl I'm heading to South Korea tomorrow for the next 12 days. It will be freezing while I'm there so hoping it will be a little warmer for you when your there
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eveline on January 30, 2015, 02:24:34 PM
Post by: Eveline on January 30, 2015, 02:24:34 PM
Thanks, ElleA - dress warm, and no coughing!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on January 31, 2015, 04:40:31 AM
Post by: ElleA on January 31, 2015, 04:40:31 AM
Will do, hehe. My partner is coming with me and is great at looking after me post op so I am sure I will do fine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on January 31, 2015, 12:36:17 PM
Post by: ElleA on January 31, 2015, 12:36:17 PM
Ugh 5am start for flights. Hopefully there are some good movies onboard. I will try to post a video in the next day or so of my pre-op voice for comparison.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on January 31, 2015, 08:59:44 PM
Post by: divineintervention on January 31, 2015, 08:59:44 PM
Can someone post a video with their new voice singing :(?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Damara on February 02, 2015, 10:40:30 AM
Post by: Damara on February 02, 2015, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: divineintervention on January 31, 2015, 08:59:44 PM
Can someone post a video with their new voice singing :(?
I'm very interested in this as well! Singing is majorly important to me, and although I'm 96% sure I'm getting this procedure in the future no matter what, I'd definitely like to hear some serious post op attempts attempts at singing. ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: nossolar on February 02, 2015, 12:32:24 PM
Post by: nossolar on February 02, 2015, 12:32:24 PM
Dear Girls
I need your help! I am a pre op ts-girl, i leave in Europe! LAst wednesday i just had my vocal folds shortering surgery! Not in Yason! In my country! Doktor said everything is fine! i just got home today and before i left a hospital the doktor asked me to say a world! I did and i shocked! My voice was so weak, so whisppering and hoarse! i tried it two more time and still so ad voice! Asolutly not higher peach! at all! I followed all the orders from my doktor, ut he is a proffesor, so usy dont have to much time for me, and i am a shy persone! I read a lot of skary staff aout voice surgeries! so now i am skared, i skared to loose my voice, and i dont know when will e my voice became more feminime! now actually i dont have any voice, seems i lost it! i tried to not cough, siense the surgery but its not really possible! My docktor gaved me a medicine agains the cough ut he said is not really affect the result!
Now i am at home and i just hope to getting better, i dont know how long i have to e silence and when will came back any voice!
please help me girls
I need your help! I am a pre op ts-girl, i leave in Europe! LAst wednesday i just had my vocal folds shortering surgery! Not in Yason! In my country! Doktor said everything is fine! i just got home today and before i left a hospital the doktor asked me to say a world! I did and i shocked! My voice was so weak, so whisppering and hoarse! i tried it two more time and still so ad voice! Asolutly not higher peach! at all! I followed all the orders from my doktor, ut he is a proffesor, so usy dont have to much time for me, and i am a shy persone! I read a lot of skary staff aout voice surgeries! so now i am skared, i skared to loose my voice, and i dont know when will e my voice became more feminime! now actually i dont have any voice, seems i lost it! i tried to not cough, siense the surgery but its not really possible! My docktor gaved me a medicine agains the cough ut he said is not really affect the result!
Now i am at home and i just hope to getting better, i dont know how long i have to e silence and when will came back any voice!
please help me girls
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 02, 2015, 01:31:01 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 02, 2015, 01:31:01 PM
Hello, nossolar
May I ask you where in Europe did you get your voice surgery and who the surgeon was? Do you happen to know what technique he was using?
Generally I think it is a bad idea to talk or cough that early after the surgery - How long was it between the surgery and the doctor asking you to speak? But some words of calming: I think also for people at Yeson, it takes some weeks for the voice to be not hoarse anymore, to be a bit stronger and to increase in pitch. At the beginning, all will be swollen and that means the vocal chords thicken and make a lower pitch, the scars are not healed yet, so the voice is hoarse and the muscles are weakened, so is the voice, if you get botox, the muscles are even paralyzed. At Yeson, people are advised not to speak for 2 weeks, so few people really know what happens if you really would try earlier, and those that did by accident said they made no sound at all. So it is perfectly normal to go out of the surgery with a weak, hoarse and lower pitched voice, but after the rest period all of this gradually changes usually.
May I ask you where in Europe did you get your voice surgery and who the surgeon was? Do you happen to know what technique he was using?
Generally I think it is a bad idea to talk or cough that early after the surgery - How long was it between the surgery and the doctor asking you to speak? But some words of calming: I think also for people at Yeson, it takes some weeks for the voice to be not hoarse anymore, to be a bit stronger and to increase in pitch. At the beginning, all will be swollen and that means the vocal chords thicken and make a lower pitch, the scars are not healed yet, so the voice is hoarse and the muscles are weakened, so is the voice, if you get botox, the muscles are even paralyzed. At Yeson, people are advised not to speak for 2 weeks, so few people really know what happens if you really would try earlier, and those that did by accident said they made no sound at all. So it is perfectly normal to go out of the surgery with a weak, hoarse and lower pitched voice, but after the rest period all of this gradually changes usually.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: nossolar on February 03, 2015, 12:17:50 AM
Post by: nossolar on February 03, 2015, 12:17:50 AM
Hi
The surgery was in midde Europe! He is a proffesor so he is running a full earl, nose , throat clinic! He asked me to say only one world just to try the voice! He told me: my voice is even higher but i didnt felt that! He made the vocal folds shorter and he not use laser! He also told me i should not speak for two weeks at least!The prolem is : he is extramly busy and dont have time for my questions!
I am just skared now, i think it should have any feeling about my voice going to be higher! I didnt get botox
So now i just waitig, dont say a world, drink a lot of tea and take vitamins!
thank you for the nice worlds
The surgery was in midde Europe! He is a proffesor so he is running a full earl, nose , throat clinic! He asked me to say only one world just to try the voice! He told me: my voice is even higher but i didnt felt that! He made the vocal folds shorter and he not use laser! He also told me i should not speak for two weeks at least!The prolem is : he is extramly busy and dont have time for my questions!
I am just skared now, i think it should have any feeling about my voice going to be higher! I didnt get botox
So now i just waitig, dont say a world, drink a lot of tea and take vitamins!
thank you for the nice worlds
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 03, 2015, 06:36:15 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 03, 2015, 06:36:15 AM
That sounds ok to me - that one word wont do any damage, I think and if you keep silent now for two weeks it should all improve. But dont expect a full and feminine voice after 2 weeks - it may be still low from swelling, it will be weak and it may be hoarse. I know two clinics here in Germany who do this type of surgery and in one of them apparently patients were not told to keep the silence, so they tried to speak as soon as they could and wrote that there was no sound coming at all or only extremely hoarse and weak voices for those 2 weeks - but I think to even try is not really helping, so I think it is better to just keep the silence. And remember, also for Dr Kim it was said that in some cases it takes wekks, months and up to a year to gain a higher pitch, so dont be impatient, give yourself rest and wait and drink tea ;)
P.S.: You dont want to mention the city or clinic this was perfomed in?
P.S.: You dont want to mention the city or clinic this was perfomed in?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: nossolar on February 03, 2015, 01:00:42 PM
Post by: nossolar on February 03, 2015, 01:00:42 PM
HI
Yes thats the best for me, just be patient and wait! i taking a lot of vitamine c, pills for cough, calcium, and antibiotic! I didnt got any botox! I dont know why is good that? i not mationed the city and my professor name still i dont know the results! He is running for a ear, nose, throat clinic and this is just one of the lot and different kind of surgeries he made! He is not a speacialist of voice feminization, he just make for me the vocal fords shortening! But he is a good doktor, famous and busy! You feel when you meet with a good docktor, you feel he is demanding of his job!I am not in Germany,but not really far, my sister leaving in Hanover, and i was thinikg to move there too, i like that country!
Yes thats the best for me, just be patient and wait! i taking a lot of vitamine c, pills for cough, calcium, and antibiotic! I didnt got any botox! I dont know why is good that? i not mationed the city and my professor name still i dont know the results! He is running for a ear, nose, throat clinic and this is just one of the lot and different kind of surgeries he made! He is not a speacialist of voice feminization, he just make for me the vocal fords shortening! But he is a good doktor, famous and busy! You feel when you meet with a good docktor, you feel he is demanding of his job!I am not in Germany,but not really far, my sister leaving in Hanover, and i was thinikg to move there too, i like that country!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 03, 2015, 02:02:29 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 03, 2015, 02:02:29 PM
I think the botox is not mandatory. If you did not get it, I think it is not an issue, but you should definitely stick to the rest period and calm down :) - if you know the Prof is doing good work, I think he will know how to not take away your voice but improve it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 05, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 05, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
I'm getting ready to schedule my surgery and book a flight.
What airport should I fly into? I have never been to Korea.
I normally fly Delta or a partner airline as I have medallion status and collect the miles but I can also fly American with a corp discount.
Decisions, decisions.
It also kinda sucks that I won't be doing my name change until I get back, don't want to risk it with passport drama.
What airport should I fly into? I have never been to Korea.
I normally fly Delta or a partner airline as I have medallion status and collect the miles but I can also fly American with a corp discount.
Decisions, decisions.
It also kinda sucks that I won't be doing my name change until I get back, don't want to risk it with passport drama.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on February 05, 2015, 03:52:15 PM
Post by: voodle on February 05, 2015, 03:52:15 PM
I went to Incheon and got a train into the city which was actually really cheap. There's also airport shuttle buses that go from all over the city so, Incheon is the nice airport to go to.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
Post by: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
And I have finally worked up the courage to post a video of me speaking, behold, a sub-par voice surgery result!
http://youtu.be/7_4opu2R_1g
I have no idea what to do really, I still don't like how my voice sounds, but it's sort of good enough, but I don't think it's good enough and it still hits low pitches far too easily.
the result of this stupid surgery and my stupid screwed up ffs result are really getting me down lately - I wish I could have surgery like normal people and just have a good result afterwards but no, everything has to go wrong.
http://youtu.be/7_4opu2R_1g
I have no idea what to do really, I still don't like how my voice sounds, but it's sort of good enough, but I don't think it's good enough and it still hits low pitches far too easily.
the result of this stupid surgery and my stupid screwed up ffs result are really getting me down lately - I wish I could have surgery like normal people and just have a good result afterwards but no, everything has to go wrong.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 05, 2015, 06:13:19 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 05, 2015, 06:13:19 PM
Quote from: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
And I have finally worked up the courage to post a video of me speaking, behold, a sub-par voice surgery result!
http://youtu.be/7_4opu2R_1g
I have no idea what to do really, I still don't like how my voice sounds, but it's sort of good enough, but I don't think it's good enough and it still hits low pitches far too easily.
the result of this stupid surgery and my stupid screwed up ffs result are really getting me down lately - I wish I could have surgery like normal people and just have a good result afterwards but no, everything has to go wrong.
Who did this? Yeson or someone else?
Ok nevermind it is yeson.
However maybe I'm not listening properly but your "old voice" doesn't really sound different from the trained one. It sounds good. Maybe I ought to listen closer.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 05, 2015, 07:12:54 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 05, 2015, 07:12:54 PM
Voodle, I think you sound and look wonderful. You seem to be a bit prone to getting down on yourself, in this case, I don't think you have a reason to. I hope you will find some self love and acceptance to help you get over this. Count me as someone who would be pleased with either your old voice (and over the moon for your new one) or your FFS results. You look and sound totally feminine and female :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: KimSails on February 05, 2015, 08:49:49 PM
Post by: KimSails on February 05, 2015, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: ReDucks on February 05, 2015, 07:12:54 PM
Voodle, I think you sound and look wonderful. You seem to be a bit prone to getting down on yourself, in this case, I don't think you have a reason to. I hope you will find some self love and acceptance to help you get over this. Count me as someone who would be pleased with either your old voice (and over the moon for your new one) or your FFS results. You look and sound totally feminine and female :)
I have to agree. I think you look and sound like a cis-female. no question. My wife overheard your voice and said the same thing.
Kim :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on February 06, 2015, 01:50:35 AM
Post by: Rachelicious on February 06, 2015, 01:50:35 AM
Quote from: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PMI have no idea what to do really, I still don't like how my voice sounds, but it's sort of good enough, but I don't think it's good enough and it still hits low pitches far too easily.
So you're complaining, specifically, that after the doctor's pills ran out, you ran into vocal issues? Has anyone else here experienced something similar?
Also, you keep referring to lots of effort, but mention that the coughs etc. are feminized. How much are do you really have to work this vs just use your voice and appropriate resonance?
Obviously there's practice in pitch flexability, that's a given. But are you really having to cram your voice into the upper register? It doesn't sound like it, if so. You're using parts of a range far above what a guy would have.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on February 06, 2015, 04:44:20 AM
Post by: voodle on February 06, 2015, 04:44:20 AM
Quote from: ImagineKate on February 05, 2015, 06:13:19 PMYep, Yeson did the surgery. And um yeah, my 'old voice' haha, it goes deeper than that but I suppose using my trained voice for that long makes it harder to get there. It certainly goes deeper when my voice gets tired or I overuse it / get dehydrated.
Who did this? Yeson or someone else?
Ok nevermind it is yeson.
However maybe I'm not listening properly but your "old voice" doesn't really sound different from the trained one. It sounds good. Maybe I ought to listen closer.
Quote from: Rachelicious on February 06, 2015, 01:50:35 AMI'm kind of rambling, in the video. I suppose what I'm saying is that Clonazepam is not a great drug to take on a regular basis just to sound better and I had a nasty surprise when I ran out of it. I do wonder if anyone else has experienced this?
So you're complaining, specifically, that after the doctor's pills ran out, you ran into vocal issues? Has anyone else here experienced something similar?
Also, you keep referring to lots of effort, but mention that the coughs etc. are feminized. How much are do you really have to work this vs just use your voice and appropriate resonance?
Obviously there's practice in pitch flexability, that's a given. But are you really having to cram your voice into the upper register? It doesn't sound like it, if so. You're using parts of a range far above what a guy would have.
And you are kind of right about the pitch thing, I just don't 'like' my voice particularly, there are aspects of it that weren't in this video that don't sound good.
Quote from: ReDucks on February 05, 2015, 07:12:54 PM
Voodle, I think you sound and look wonderful. You seem to be a bit prone to getting down on yourself, in this case, I don't think you have a reason to. I hope you will find some self love and acceptance to help you get over this. Count me as someone who would be pleased with either your old voice (and over the moon for your new one) or your FFS results. You look and sound totally feminine and female :)
Quote from: KimSails on February 05, 2015, 08:49:49 PMThank you :) I have trouble with thinking my voice sounds good, especially listening to other people's results with the voice surgery.
I have to agree. I think you look and sound like a cis-female. no question. My wife overheard your voice and said the same thing.
Kim :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 06, 2015, 04:48:02 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 06, 2015, 04:48:02 AM
I think comparing it to Jenny's and Jmi's is unrealistic as they seem to have more of their vocal chords tied off so unless you request that I don't think you'll have that kind of result.. I've seen other YouTube videos and they seem to be more in line with your voice.
Either way after I'm done I'm going to have some sessions with a voice coach.
Either way after I'm done I'm going to have some sessions with a voice coach.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Charlotte2 on February 06, 2015, 06:14:12 AM
Post by: Charlotte2 on February 06, 2015, 06:14:12 AM
Quote from: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PMHi Voodle,
And I have finally worked up the courage to post a video of me speaking, behold, a sub-par voice surgery result!
http://youtu.be/7_4opu2R_1g
I have no idea what to do really, I still don't like how my voice sounds, but it's sort of good enough, but I don't think it's good enough and it still hits low pitches far too easily.
the result of this stupid surgery and my stupid screwed up ffs result are really getting me down lately - I wish I could have surgery like normal people and just have a good result afterwards but no, everything has to go wrong.
Just wanted to say I think you sound great. I think your voice sounds very clear and very polished. Even when you try speaking at lower pitch you have a cis-woman's timbre. So, yeah, cis no question. :)
I think I remember you got 1/2 of your cords tied off. Have you had a camera down there since surgery?
Charlotte
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 06, 2015, 07:18:45 AM
Post by: barbie on February 06, 2015, 07:18:45 AM
Quote from: KimSails on February 05, 2015, 08:49:49 PM
I have to agree. I think you look and sound like a cis-female. no question. My wife overheard your voice and said the same thing.
Kim :)
+1
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 06, 2015, 07:21:40 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 06, 2015, 07:21:40 AM
Voodle, I think your voice sounds very good in all the video. But yes of course when you try to do the old voice it sounds a bit different - to most it probably will just sound like a woman trying to be a bit more masculine like some businesswomen do or like some women do if they try to speak like a guy. I think the timbre is not male at all which is a big gain. I dont know your pitch pre and post op, you would have to provide a pre op "original voice and trained voice" recording to compare for that.
But what did you mean by having to re-learn how to feminize your voice post op? Did the old changed ways to use your voice not work anymore?
I like your pitch actually - it is not as high as Jenny or Jamie or Olivia, but I actually think it is fine - I personally would not even want a pitch that is in the 240 Hz or more range ;)
So what are you doing now to change your voice - how mucn consious effort do you have to put into it and is it straining your voice? Did you have any situations since the VFS where people asked you if you are trans or misgenderd you based on the voice? I highly would doubt it...
But what did you mean by having to re-learn how to feminize your voice post op? Did the old changed ways to use your voice not work anymore?
I like your pitch actually - it is not as high as Jenny or Jamie or Olivia, but I actually think it is fine - I personally would not even want a pitch that is in the 240 Hz or more range ;)
So what are you doing now to change your voice - how mucn consious effort do you have to put into it and is it straining your voice? Did you have any situations since the VFS where people asked you if you are trans or misgenderd you based on the voice? I highly would doubt it...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 06, 2015, 10:13:33 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 06, 2015, 10:13:33 AM
I had a chance to view voodle's video again with good quality headphones. I can sense a wee bit of resonance in the "old" voice but it really does not sound bad at all. The resonance may be exacerbated by the room acoustics.
Either way I am surprised that the voice would not pass. I do have questions though.
You said you coughed once you woke up because of phlegm. Do they tell you how to prevent this? I'm wondering how exactly they prevent one from "coughing away £7000 surgery result." When they did the follow up, did they see it damaged or something? I'm just wondering if the coughing had something to do with it or if it's just the surgery itself that you weren't happy with.
Either way I am surprised that the voice would not pass. I do have questions though.
You said you coughed once you woke up because of phlegm. Do they tell you how to prevent this? I'm wondering how exactly they prevent one from "coughing away £7000 surgery result." When they did the follow up, did they see it damaged or something? I'm just wondering if the coughing had something to do with it or if it's just the surgery itself that you weren't happy with.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on February 06, 2015, 10:14:24 AM
Post by: Wynternight on February 06, 2015, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
And I have finally worked up the courage to post a video of me speaking, behold, a sub-par voice surgery result!
http://youtu.be/7_4opu2R_1g
I have no idea what to do really, I still don't like how my voice sounds, but it's sort of good enough, but I don't think it's good enough and it still hits low pitches far too easily.
the result of this stupid surgery and my stupid screwed up ffs result are really getting me down lately - I wish I could have surgery like normal people and just have a good result afterwards but no, everything has to go wrong.
You sound and look absolutey lovely.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mmmmm on February 06, 2015, 11:45:34 AM
Post by: mmmmm on February 06, 2015, 11:45:34 AM
Quote from: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
the result of this stupid surgery and my stupid screwed up ffs result are really getting me down lately - I wish I could have surgery like normal people and just have a good result afterwards but no, everything has to go wrong.
Hey. Based on your before/after photos on FFS-Support group and this video, I can't say I understand what you mean by screwed up FFS result. You look really pretty, and I mean that seriously, not just to make you feel better. Maybe you had different expectations. I remember you mentioned a dent in the forehead, but it's definitely not a huge problem. Maybe not big enough to revise the forehead area just because of that. It would make more sense if you had also other problems in that area, but your orbital rims and expression change really works fine. A subtle rhinoplastly would maybe change some things for you. You need to understand that dr. Bart does a plenty good job as far as feminization goes, but doesn't seem to be worried the same about beauty and aesthetics. You can see that on most of his patients, with the main indicator being poorly done nose work (as far as beauty approach goes, not feminization!) or lack of it, as it is with your case. His approach to this side of things was the reason why I crossed him out very early in the decision/research process, despite the Belgium being the nearest option and his very reasonable prices.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Eveline on February 06, 2015, 12:03:10 PM
Post by: Eveline on February 06, 2015, 12:03:10 PM
voodle, I watched your video, and i see a very attractive women with a wonderfully female voice.
If I had watched the video without knowing about your transition, I would never have guessed.
Honestly, I hope my voice sounds a good as yours someday...
If I had watched the video without knowing about your transition, I would never have guessed.
Honestly, I hope my voice sounds a good as yours someday...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 08, 2015, 04:08:11 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 08, 2015, 04:08:11 AM
Ice cream sounds very good :)
Voodle - I listened to your video but could not really hear a 120 Hz part - when do you reach that 120 Hz? Is it when you try to sing a note and go as low as possible? Was that at 120 Hz before the surgery as well? For me it is presently about 75-80 Hz, so if it goes up to 120 it would already be a gain for me :)
Voodle - I listened to your video but could not really hear a 120 Hz part - when do you reach that 120 Hz? Is it when you try to sing a note and go as low as possible? Was that at 120 Hz before the surgery as well? For me it is presently about 75-80 Hz, so if it goes up to 120 it would already be a gain for me :)
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 08, 2015, 06:31:27 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 08, 2015, 06:31:27 AM
Thank you voodle.
And again you have a beautiful voice, sounds unmistakably like a beautiful young English cis woman. No doubt whatsoever about it sounding female.
And again you have a beautiful voice, sounds unmistakably like a beautiful young English cis woman. No doubt whatsoever about it sounding female.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 10, 2015, 09:41:45 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 10, 2015, 09:41:45 AM
I am scheduled!!!
Can't wait. Meanwhile I'm prepping myself physically, losing some more weight, getting all my numbers in line (they mostly are).
Can't wait. Meanwhile I'm prepping myself physically, losing some more weight, getting all my numbers in line (they mostly are).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ShadowCharms on February 10, 2015, 04:10:31 PM
Post by: ShadowCharms on February 10, 2015, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: voodle on February 05, 2015, 04:16:25 PM
And I have finally worked up the courage to post a video of me speaking, behold, a sub-par voice surgery result!
http://youtu.be/7_4opu2R_1g
I have no idea what to do really, I still don't like how my voice sounds, but it's sort of good enough, but I don't think it's good enough and it still hits low pitches far too easily.
the result of this stupid surgery and my stupid screwed up ffs result are really getting me down lately - I wish I could have surgery like normal people and just have a good result afterwards but no, everything has to go wrong.
You look and sound lovely. If your video had not been about transitioning, I never in a million years would have guessed that you weren't a cisgender woman. If I could ever achieve results even remotely close to as good as yours, I would be thrilled. Even when you go into your "low" voice, you still sound like a cis woman to me. I know some cisgender women who have voices lower than your "low" voice, and no one ever cares how they sound.
I know a lot about being hard on oneself, and I know that it can be hard to stop picking out all of the littlest flaws and making them into something bigger than they are. I think you're great just the way you are.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 11, 2015, 11:28:36 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 11, 2015, 11:28:36 AM
So is anyone else going to be in Seoul in June? That's when I'm scheduled.
Looking for hotels and flights but I have time.
Looking for hotels and flights but I have time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 01:48:03 PM
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 01:48:03 PM
Good Evening Ladies,
So far I was going around trought my girlfriend profile. Now I created mine 'cause I feel the need to share my experience at Yeson Voice Center.
I scheduled and had my feminization voice surgery after all positive reviews here and video on youtube.
My experience is negative in term of results and in term of human experience
Does anyone had no results or I am the only?
So far I was going around trought my girlfriend profile. Now I created mine 'cause I feel the need to share my experience at Yeson Voice Center.
I scheduled and had my feminization voice surgery after all positive reviews here and video on youtube.
My experience is negative in term of results and in term of human experience
Does anyone had no results or I am the only?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on February 12, 2015, 02:41:00 PM
Post by: kwala on February 12, 2015, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 01:48:03 PMI'm so sorry to hear that. Can you go into detail about what you disliked about the experience? Did your voice not change at all? Did it not change enough? Were the staff not courteous?
Good Evening Ladies,
So far I was going around trought my girlfriend profile. Now I created mine 'cause I feel the need to share my experience at Yeson Voice Center.
I scheduled and had my feminization voice surgery after all positive reviews here and video on youtube.
My experience is negative in term of results and in term of human experience
Does anyone had no results or I am the only?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on February 12, 2015, 04:18:59 PM
Post by: voodle on February 12, 2015, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 01:48:03 PM
Good Evening Ladies,
So far I was going around trought my girlfriend profile. Now I created mine 'cause I feel the need to share my experience at Yeson Voice Center.
I scheduled and had my feminization voice surgery after all positive reviews here and video on youtube.
My experience is negative in term of results and in term of human experience
Does anyone had no results or I am the only?
I thought I had a really bad result initially, the botox and my lack of voice training meant my pitch hadn't gone up at all and I was as displeased if not more so than you are. Also I don't enjoy Korea but that was admittedly a very difficult time for me (since I hadn't gone full time yet).
Give it time, although it will be interesting to hear how you sound and how long it has been since your voice surgery. Are you still taking clonazepam?
Also if things aren't working out, definitely see a speech therapist - I finally saw one the other day and she had some really good suggestions about how I can improve my voice :)
Also Also!! Wow thank you everyone, it's good to have some reassurance that my voice is okay, I worry about it because I don't get a lot of positive feedback IRL (or any, hah) so I judge how I sound quite harshly.
I've become aware that there are some things I can improve on by learning to use my voice correctly, apparently I've been making it too breathy and the tone/intonation is off but now I have some idea of what I'm doing I can work on it :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on February 12, 2015, 04:41:33 PM
Post by: voodle on February 12, 2015, 04:41:33 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on February 06, 2015, 10:13:33 AM
I had a chance to view voodle's video again with good quality headphones. I can sense a wee bit of resonance in the "old" voice but it really does not sound bad at all. The resonance may be exacerbated by the room acoustics.
Either way I am surprised that the voice would not pass. I do have questions though.
You said you coughed once you woke up because of phlegm. Do they tell you how to prevent this? I'm wondering how exactly they prevent one from "coughing away £7000 surgery result." When they did the follow up, did they see it damaged or something? I'm just wondering if the coughing had something to do with it or if it's just the surgery itself that you weren't happy with.
Haha that particular attempt at sounding like my old voice didn't really work - I found some old recordings actually:
Right before the surgery, tired: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0a8yakZNwoB
Three weeks after the surgery, this is why I was disappointed: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1D6FdqlEhpv
Three months after the surgery, sounds okay but could sound better: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1b1l3IIdtkN
Listening to these again really made me appreciate that I should've got some guidance on my voice a lot sooner but I was a really depressed mess throughout 2013 so it didn't happen.
I was reading another woman's blog of her experience at yeson, she had surgery a week or two ago, apparently they give a cough suppressant now. I know that the coughing stretched things BUT we did confirm that my vocal chords had healed up normally (as far as anyone could tell) and that in combination with the botox most likely caused the lackluster pitch increase. Since then though, the botox has long since worn off and my vocal chords have healed up so I can appreciate that my pitch did go up, so I'm slowly getting over my issues with the surgery.
For future reference, if someone is upset about their result from a voice surgery, please tell them to go see a speech therapist rather than telling them they screwed up.
Also I found out last year that a bad coughing fit can make my pitch drop temporarily, but it does go back up (for now haha).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 12, 2015, 05:00:37 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 12, 2015, 05:00:37 PM
I do appreciate it, voodle. I am excited but nervous.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 05:59:13 PM
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 05:59:13 PM
Quote from: kwala on February 12, 2015, 02:41:00 PMThe voice is exactly the same, I was not expecting an huge results as other girls shown on youtube but at least a noticiable difference. I'd like to write a specific post about my experience at Ye-son Voice Center but I found that they are not Transgender oriented in their standard of care, they are not genuinely interested in Transgender community
I'm so sorry to hear that. Can you go into detail about what you disliked about the experience? Did your voice not change at all? Did it not change enough? Were the staff not courteous?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 06:07:51 PM
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 06:07:51 PM
Quote from: voodle on February 12, 2015, 04:41:33 PMYes I asked help to a speech therapist but he told me that exercise will help but the pitch increase after 3 month is quite unlikely. I heard your voice records and I can find the difference between the before and after when you was complaining, then there is no difference in term of picht between the first after and your final result, just a different skill in the way you use your voice
Haha that particular attempt at sounding like my old voice didn't really work - I found some old recordings actually:
Right before the surgery, tired: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0a8yakZNwoB
Three weeks after the surgery, this is why I was disappointed: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1D6FdqlEhpv
Three months after the surgery, sounds okay but could sound better: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1b1l3IIdtkN
Listening to these again really made me appreciate that I should've got some guidance on my voice a lot sooner but I was a really depressed mess throughout 2013 so it didn't happen.
I was reading another woman's blog of her experience at yeson, she had surgery a week or two ago, apparently they give a cough suppressant now. I know that the coughing stretched things BUT we did confirm that my vocal chords had healed up normally (as far as anyone could tell) and that in combination with the botox most likely caused the lackluster pitch increase. Since then though, the botox has long since worn off and my vocal chords have healed up so I can appreciate that my pitch did go up, so I'm slowly getting over my issues with the surgery).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 12, 2015, 07:10:10 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 12, 2015, 07:10:10 PM
Quote from: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 05:59:13 PM
The voice is exactly the same, I was not expecting an huge results as other girls shown on youtube but at least a noticiable difference. I'd like to write a specific post about my experience at Ye-son Voice Center but I found that they are not Transgender oriented in their standard of care, they are not genuinely interested in Transgender community
Same result as your natural or trained voice?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 07:20:41 PM
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on February 12, 2015, 07:10:10 PMI think trained 'cause I transitioned many years ago and my voice wasn't completely male, was like a female with deep voice
Same result as your natural or trained voice?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on February 12, 2015, 10:43:04 PM
Post by: kwala on February 12, 2015, 10:43:04 PM
Quote from: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 07:20:41 PMSo sorry about that. How long has it been since the procedure was done?
I think trained 'cause I transitioned many years ago and my voice wasn't completely male, was like a female with deep voice
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 13, 2015, 12:46:45 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 13, 2015, 12:46:45 AM
Quote from: voodle on February 12, 2015, 04:41:33 PM
Haha that particular attempt at sounding like my old voice didn't really work - I found some old recordings actually:
Right before the surgery, tired: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0a8yakZNwoB
Three weeks after the surgery, this is why I was disappointed: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1D6FdqlEhpv
Three months after the surgery, sounds okay but could sound better: http://vocaroo.com/i/s1b1l3IIdtkN
Listening to these again really made me appreciate that I should've got some guidance on my voice a lot sooner but I was a really depressed mess throughout 2013 so it didn't happen.
I was reading another woman's blog of her experience at yeson, she had surgery a week or two ago, apparently they give a cough suppressant now. I know that the coughing stretched things BUT we did confirm that my vocal chords had healed up normally (as far as anyone could tell) and that in combination with the botox most likely caused the lackluster pitch increase. Since then though, the botox has long since worn off and my vocal chords have healed up so I can appreciate that my pitch did go up, so I'm slowly getting over my issues with the surgery.
For future reference, if someone is upset about their result from a voice surgery, please tell them to go see a speech therapist rather than telling them they screwed up.
Also I found out last year that a bad coughing fit can make my pitch drop temporarily, but it does go back up (for now haha).
Hey voodle,
Your month 2 sounds almost like that lady from BBC radio 5 i used to listen to (Victoria Pendleton?) or one of the news readers on the world service. There is still some surgical laryngitis I can detect though.
Month 3 sounds pretty good.
Your pre voice actually sounds feminine, but I can detect a bit of male resonance in it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 13, 2015, 02:52:10 AM
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 13, 2015, 02:52:10 AM
Quote from: kwala on February 12, 2015, 10:43:04 PM3 Months
So sorry about that. How long has it been since the procedure was done?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 12:15:56 PM
Just a couple comments. First of all, while we all love to hear great results on YouTube and here, I think that those are mostly the good days. Everyone has ups and downs in their recovery, and I think we all need to consider the things that are worthy of being posted are most likely to be the very best recordings. Maybe even a bit forced into sounding good, beyond the day-to-day habitual voice.
Secondly, in my consultations with Yeson, both before I was accepted for surgery and afterward, Yeson was very clear that it would take as long as a year to hear the final results. Dr. Kim drew out a progression of pitch where for the first 2 to 6 months, the voice would be similar to my old voice, and then the pitch would increase over a period of 1-2 months, and sustain at the new higher pitch. This was just for pitch. If we don't follow the exercises and get voice therapy, the impression of female or male won't necessarily change - it is not enough to have a higher pitch, we also need to learn to speak without resonance and in a way that is more female than male to get the best results possible. So as far as pitch vs. training, I don't know of anyone, including Jennygirl who has been post op 1 year. I would love to hear their results when they do get to their fully healed pitch level, they already sound great from a prosody / resonance perspective (IMHO).
I'm still a week from speaking short conversations but have been able to speak a couple words a day for the past 2 weeks, and frankly, I sound like I have a cold. Too soon to draw any conclusions at all. I'll try to record something when I hit 1 month, without 'prettying it up', so people can hear what it sounds like after a month.
Hang in there everyone, stick with the program and you'll never have to look back after a year and wonder if you cheated yourself from your best results.
Secondly, in my consultations with Yeson, both before I was accepted for surgery and afterward, Yeson was very clear that it would take as long as a year to hear the final results. Dr. Kim drew out a progression of pitch where for the first 2 to 6 months, the voice would be similar to my old voice, and then the pitch would increase over a period of 1-2 months, and sustain at the new higher pitch. This was just for pitch. If we don't follow the exercises and get voice therapy, the impression of female or male won't necessarily change - it is not enough to have a higher pitch, we also need to learn to speak without resonance and in a way that is more female than male to get the best results possible. So as far as pitch vs. training, I don't know of anyone, including Jennygirl who has been post op 1 year. I would love to hear their results when they do get to their fully healed pitch level, they already sound great from a prosody / resonance perspective (IMHO).
I'm still a week from speaking short conversations but have been able to speak a couple words a day for the past 2 weeks, and frankly, I sound like I have a cold. Too soon to draw any conclusions at all. I'll try to record something when I hit 1 month, without 'prettying it up', so people can hear what it sounds like after a month.
Hang in there everyone, stick with the program and you'll never have to look back after a year and wonder if you cheated yourself from your best results.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 13, 2015, 12:37:10 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 13, 2015, 12:37:10 PM
Quote from: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 12:15:56 PMSo as far as pitch vs. training, I don't know of anyone, including Jennygirl who has been post op 1 year.
Jenny and a few others are post op 1 year and more. They got their surgeries in 2013.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 12:46:28 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 12:46:28 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on February 13, 2015, 12:37:10 PM
Jenny and a few others are post op 1 year and more. They got their surgeries in 2013.
Duh, I didn't realize I was off, I was going by their post surgery videos, is anyone posting post 1 year results?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 13, 2015, 02:31:37 PM
Post by: LittleMarmaid on February 13, 2015, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 12:15:56 PMI am doing my post op program, exercise and voice tranining as Yeson direction. I just had the need to say my opinion and experience not only in term of results. If it is not welcome that's fine. I guess the forum mission is to be helpfull sharing both positive and negative experience
Just a couple comments. First of all, while we all love to hear great results on YouTube and here, I think that those are mostly the good days. Everyone has ups and downs in their recovery, and I think we all need to consider the things that are worthy of being posted are most likely to be the very best recordings. Maybe even a bit forced into sounding good, beyond the day-to-day habitual voice.
Secondly, in my consultations with Yeson, both before I was accepted for surgery and afterward, Yeson was very clear that it would take as long as a year to hear the final results. Dr. Kim drew out a progression of pitch where for the first 2 to 6 months, the voice would be similar to my old voice, and then the pitch would increase over a period of 1-2 months, and sustain at the new higher pitch. This was just for pitch. If we don't follow the exercises and get voice therapy, the impression of female or male won't necessarily change - it is not enough to have a higher pitch, we also need to learn to speak without resonance and in a way that is more female than male to get the best results possible. So as far as pitch vs. training, I don't know of anyone, including Jennygirl who has been post op 1 year. I would love to hear their results when they do get to their fully healed pitch level, they already sound great from a prosody / resonance perspective (IMHO).
I'm still a week from speaking short conversations but have been able to speak a couple words a day for the past 2 weeks, and frankly, I sound like I have a cold. Too soon to draw any conclusions at all. I'll try to record something when I hit 1 month, without 'prettying it up', so people can hear what it sounds like after a month.
Hang in there everyone, stick with the program and you'll never have to look back after a year and wonder if you cheated yourself from your best results.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 13, 2015, 03:05:30 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 13, 2015, 03:05:30 PM
What I have seen is that girls who already have a trained voice are underwhelmed by the changes, that it's not enough. That is understandable, because they are already close to what the surgery will give them.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
Quote from: LittleMarmaid on February 13, 2015, 02:31:37 PMI'm sorry if you felt singled out by my response, it wasn't directed only at you but as a general comment. I think both positive and negative comments should be offered, it is how people will get educated about these types of things. That said, I think negative comments demand more context so that we can figure out if the negative is something that might apply to us. For example, you said that your speech therapist told you that your pitch won't get any higher after 3 months. What is that therapist's basis for saying that? Is it based on their experience with this surgery or from some other surgery? I only ask because it is not what the Dr. told me, and he has done many of these surgeries over the past 10 years of experience and seen and followed up with many trans women who had the surgery.
I am doing my post op program, exercise and voice tranining as Yeson direction. I just had the need to say my opinion and experience not only in term of results. If it is not welcome that's fine. I guess the forum mission is to be helpfull sharing both positive and negative experience
I am sorry to hear you didn't have a good personal experience, though I did enjoy my time there, and found them all very respectful, I can't say what happened in your case.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 04:38:39 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: LittleMarmaid on February 12, 2015, 06:07:51 PM
...then there is no difference in term of picht between the first after and your final result, just a different skill in the way you use your voice
Voodle, I played your 3 month and 3 week at the same time and there is quite a difference in pitch when you hear them together! Great results so far. I can't wait to hear how things go in the future
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on February 13, 2015, 08:19:31 PM
Post by: voodle on February 13, 2015, 08:19:31 PM
Quote from: ReDucks on February 13, 2015, 04:38:39 PM:D Here's nearly 2 years on (may 13 > feb 15), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_4opu2R_1g Also I saw a speech therapist and now it sounds possibly even better? Sort of
Voodle, I played your 3 month and 3 week at the same time and there is quite a difference in pitch when you hear them together! Great results so far. I can't wait to hear how things go in the future
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 14, 2015, 09:16:13 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 14, 2015, 09:16:13 AM
Mermaid - that sounds like you are really disappointed. I am sure your opinion and experiences are welcome here, maybe open a new thread for them , this one is kind of getting really long and mixed ;) - maybe you can include older recordings in natural or untrained and trained voice for comparison? What I heard is that if people have a good trained voice before VFS, there is a tendency that the change is not as large as one might hope for, but the way the voice is made is different. Easier, More natural. So especially Sarah and Amy had that experience, the voice itself from the outside did not change all that much, but it was just a lot easier to make that voice, it was no longer feeling like faking but just natural. Did you not experience anything like that?
I hope you do not get discouraged to post more about what bugs you about the voice. All kinds of stuff play a role there - pitch being one thing and many other modifyers are in it as well. So maybe you canb describe some more. I know many who have done the surgery and love it are a bit rough if someone says that it did not work (implying that Dr Kim is doing not that good work), but I noticed in the past that often there are explanations besides the skill of the Doctor that exlain why someone is unhappy with the result or still perceived as male.
The way I see it is the surgery makes some thing seasier by giving us some tools to work with, a modyfied instrument to play, but if we modded our own instrument a lot before, it may not seem like much of an improvement and if we dont know how to play it right, the new instrument does not help much either.
I am glad I have a good voice therapist at hand who will start with me right when it is allowed to. I now just need all your best wishes to get rid of my bronchitis until the beginning of next week, because otherwise I would have to cancel the trip to Seoul planned for the end of next week .
I hope you do not get discouraged to post more about what bugs you about the voice. All kinds of stuff play a role there - pitch being one thing and many other modifyers are in it as well. So maybe you canb describe some more. I know many who have done the surgery and love it are a bit rough if someone says that it did not work (implying that Dr Kim is doing not that good work), but I noticed in the past that often there are explanations besides the skill of the Doctor that exlain why someone is unhappy with the result or still perceived as male.
The way I see it is the surgery makes some thing seasier by giving us some tools to work with, a modyfied instrument to play, but if we modded our own instrument a lot before, it may not seem like much of an improvement and if we dont know how to play it right, the new instrument does not help much either.
I am glad I have a good voice therapist at hand who will start with me right when it is allowed to. I now just need all your best wishes to get rid of my bronchitis until the beginning of next week, because otherwise I would have to cancel the trip to Seoul planned for the end of next week .
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on February 14, 2015, 12:49:44 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on February 14, 2015, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 14, 2015, 09:16:13 AM
The way I see it is the surgery makes some thing seasier by giving us some tools to work with, a modyfied instrument to play, but if we modded our own instrument a lot before, it may not seem like much of an improvement and if we dont know how to play it right, the new instrument does not help much either.
I am glad I have a good voice therapist at hand who will start with me right when it is allowed to. I now just need all your best wishes to get rid of my bronchitis until the beginning of next week, because otherwise I would have to cancel the trip to Seoul planned for the end of next week .
Good luck Anja! Hope your throat eases up soon.
The idea of this surgery is that your voice / instrument should be female-sounding in pitch (and to some extent, resonance, but that's largely up to the user) across all or nearly all of your range - as opposed to pre-op, where you have a great portion of your range that cannot be used.
What this means is, when you speak, it should "feel like" you're using the old part of your voice that sounded bad, except that it will sound fine - like using the same fingerings going from a tenor sax to an alto sax.
If you listen to J-Mi's recent videos for instance, I really don't believe Dr. Kim took her from 135hz to 270hz. What I believe we're hearing is her being used to using the upper register of her instrument, and not using the full range, which is perhaps why she sounds a bit strained / constrained in her upper register around D3-G3. Her 2-month, for instance, sounds like a completely different instrument to get used to from her first, and current.
Regarding outcomes, the voice is not really "final" until 1 year, and in that time it's changing. One really can't expect every single person to give herself exemplary healing conditions and immediately know exactly how to use their new voice as intended, and you can reasonably expect to hear the outcomes of that in this now overwhelmingly huge thread.
And naturally, the vast majority of those dissatisfied are going to blame the surgeon, chance, etc, because that's what people do when accustomed to living in a world of in-and-out data and quick fixes that does not encourage training yourself or thinking for yourself.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 14, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 14, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
I was at the Berlin clinic for a consultation last fall. It was a bit hard to really get good info there, but they said their success rate in glottoplasty is 30% - measured exclusively by the satisfaction of the patients. 30% said it was worse and the rest was ok, not much change. Now for one thing, thats a horrible rate and another reason to go to Yeson instead, but what puzzled me was how this can be - if you tie up the vocal chords, the lowest possible pitch HAS to increase unless you really harm something else. The Prof there hinted towards that the pitch increase actually really doe shappen. The old studies of the clinic also show that there is almost always a significant increase in pitch (the Gross et al paper). So adding the experiences from the people in this forum and in the Yeson group on facebook, my conclusion was that besides the possibility of harming the voice due to the surgery - which certainy is part of why the stats in Berlin are so bad - if the voice gets weak, breathy, hoarse, people will of course describe it as unsatisfactory - a main reason why people are not satisfied with the voice may well be the expectations they had about it.
Many go there with the expectation that their boomy bass male voice will be made into a female sounding voice , which usually does not happen with surgery alone, it always takes additional training and they dont like that or see it as a flaw of the surgery. Another group seems to be the ones who did voice training, have a good feminine voice and expect somehow that the voice gets even more feminine with surgery, which also does not happen as it will just make using the feminine voice easier. The ones most satisfied seem to be the ones who had a feminine trained voice before, but had a hard time to keep it up, strained while doing so, were sad that it still had a male edge to it and that they could still accidentially drop down from it - in that case surgery helped to take away the strain, made it more natural and removed some of the male edge to it, making it more naturally feminine.
So I would never dismiss a concern or dissatisfaction of someone with a voice after VFS, but I would always look into what really happened, what were the expectations, what changed really and how does it relate to the results that can realistically be expected and the expectations of the patient.
That said, a total lack of change in pitch (especially the lowest possible pitch) or easiness to reach a feminine pitch when speaking after 3 months would worry me too. If the suture holds, which can be easily checked at a ENT with an endoscope, the only reason I can imagine is swelling of the chords which keeps the pitch low until it is gone, accordiung to Yeson this seems to take up to 6-12 months...
Many go there with the expectation that their boomy bass male voice will be made into a female sounding voice , which usually does not happen with surgery alone, it always takes additional training and they dont like that or see it as a flaw of the surgery. Another group seems to be the ones who did voice training, have a good feminine voice and expect somehow that the voice gets even more feminine with surgery, which also does not happen as it will just make using the feminine voice easier. The ones most satisfied seem to be the ones who had a feminine trained voice before, but had a hard time to keep it up, strained while doing so, were sad that it still had a male edge to it and that they could still accidentially drop down from it - in that case surgery helped to take away the strain, made it more natural and removed some of the male edge to it, making it more naturally feminine.
So I would never dismiss a concern or dissatisfaction of someone with a voice after VFS, but I would always look into what really happened, what were the expectations, what changed really and how does it relate to the results that can realistically be expected and the expectations of the patient.
That said, a total lack of change in pitch (especially the lowest possible pitch) or easiness to reach a feminine pitch when speaking after 3 months would worry me too. If the suture holds, which can be easily checked at a ENT with an endoscope, the only reason I can imagine is swelling of the chords which keeps the pitch low until it is gone, accordiung to Yeson this seems to take up to 6-12 months...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on February 14, 2015, 02:29:58 PM
Post by: kwala on February 14, 2015, 02:29:58 PM
Quote from: Rachelicious on February 14, 2015, 12:49:44 PMI think that this is a great analogy! I think the idea is not so much that you gain overall range (which even most surgeons out there will tell you is false, and if anything you lose some of the lower end) but that the way those notes are created/the place they come from is altered, so it's like you are playing a different instrument. I'll take it a bit further. When you play a different saxophone, you can use the same fingerings and in general all of the notes will come out, but because the pitch and overtone series differs, you still have to "voice" them differently. That means air pressure, tongue position, soft palette position, etc will have to change if you want the optimal sound and intonation. What this means for us is that we have a new instrument that's still in the same family, but we still have adjustments to make on our own for the best possible tone quality. Pitch is only half the battle.
Good luck Anja! Hope your throat eases up soon.
The idea of this surgery is that your voice / instrument should be female-sounding in pitch (and to some extent, resonance, but that's largely up to the user) across all or nearly all of your range - as opposed to pre-op, where you have a great portion of your range that cannot be used.
What this means is, when you speak, it should "feel like" you're using the old part of your voice that sounded bad, except that it will sound fine - like using the same fingerings going from a tenor sax to an alto sax.
Anjaq, I am sending you good health vibes! I've been reading your posts for a long time and I know you've done your homework on this so I really hope you get to go through with this as planned :)
Question for those who have undergone a glottoplasty procedure. Does your break from modal to head voice actually change, or is it more like you feel less strained and less apt to crack around the break area?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: celinemealone on February 15, 2015, 05:34:08 AM
Post by: celinemealone on February 15, 2015, 05:34:08 AM
Hello everyone! :D
I just came back from Seoul and is on the sixth day of recovery and i have to say that my experience at Yeson is going to be something I will remember for the rest of my life, the staff Jessie and especially Dr Kim were so nice and supportive would be what I felt while i was there.
For my surgery the days before final check up was totally fine with little 1 or 2 coughs and as i saw Dr Kim again everything was onpoint, however when I was on my flight back home I had a few more of the involuntary coughs and they got abit worse when I landed as my throat was so dry. I am in that mind set now that i feel i've just ruined everything. Im soo worried. It makes me wonder what are the signs when you damage the suture?
I just came back from Seoul and is on the sixth day of recovery and i have to say that my experience at Yeson is going to be something I will remember for the rest of my life, the staff Jessie and especially Dr Kim were so nice and supportive would be what I felt while i was there.
For my surgery the days before final check up was totally fine with little 1 or 2 coughs and as i saw Dr Kim again everything was onpoint, however when I was on my flight back home I had a few more of the involuntary coughs and they got abit worse when I landed as my throat was so dry. I am in that mind set now that i feel i've just ruined everything. Im soo worried. It makes me wonder what are the signs when you damage the suture?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 05:58:59 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 05:58:59 AM
If worried, ask Jessie ;) - As I read it many times here, the signs would be sharp pain and possibly blood coughed up.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mmmmm on February 15, 2015, 07:10:11 AM
Post by: mmmmm on February 15, 2015, 07:10:11 AM
It does seems like most people take their bags and go home very soon after the surgery. Like 5-7 days after. I don't know, but is Seoul really such a >-bleeped-<ty place that its not worth to stay longer, maybe travel around a little, experience local cuisine, etc? It's definitely better to stay around for another week or more, and do a cheekup or two more with dr. Kim, just to make shure everything is alright before you take a long, terrible and exhausting flight towards home. It's not like everybody needs to rush back home because they go to work the next day.. So why not play a tourist safely, do the things you can do, eat the things you can eat, experience the other side of the world a little.. and take a little more time to stay around?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 07:55:37 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 07:55:37 AM
Hmm - well most people do stay for almost 2 weeks - between arrival and departure and in the week after the surgery they do some sightseeing. I think the surgery includes only one checkup regularly, one would have to ask if they have time (and maybe want some more money) for another one. I believe however many are still a bit worried about being without speech when being a tourist. It may take away some of the fun of being there. Plus at least for me, a two week absence (from takeoff to arrival back home) is already quite some time, being off work and leaving the home and dogs alone in that time and all of this. But I guess it would be nice to put in another week, since that week is probably of flimits for being back to work anyways.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 15, 2015, 09:11:58 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 15, 2015, 09:11:58 AM
I am only staying 9 days because I can't take that much time off work plus I have other obligations at home. But I guess if you can stay longer, go for it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on February 15, 2015, 09:42:41 AM
Post by: seattlesarah on February 15, 2015, 09:42:41 AM
I had the surgery on the 29th of January and stayed in Seoul a total of 9 days. I enjoyed aspects of Seoul but I couldn't wait to leave and I'll never go back just to visit. I feel like I've seen the place pretty comprehensively now and I didn't enjoy the general feel of it enough to want to experience it again. I guess you have to go to understand. I went to Tokyo for a week after and it was like I could breathe again somehow. Tokyo has a much harder to use subway system and Korean food is better than Japanese imo, but I just jived with the Japanese aesthetic and way of interacting. A lot more people there understand Engliah too so it's not as isolating.
Something I have found incredibly hard about this operation has been having to be silent. No one has talked about this much, but I have literally had mornings where I woke up crying due to dreams where people couldn't hear me and were ignoring me, and I am so frustrated so often when I can't stop someone and ask a question with my voice when they are out of reach and not looking. I feel emotionally separated from my partner and my family and really really isolated. I can't express myself in any complexity when limited to the speed with which I can type during a "conversation", and I often miss the opportunity to get to say anything at all. I wasn't prepared for the emotional toll of this aspect of the recovery.
My voice sounds low and croaky and awful as of today, but they said it would until a few weeks after the Botox shot, and that I may not see an increase in pitch until around months 4-6. Right now I just feel like I have months of >-bleeped-< ahead of me with an impassable voice when it was perfectly passable before. The end result should be better than before the op but having to go through this silenced period probably followed by a degendering period where my voice is low and I'm not supposed to do my regular "tricks" to lift it (which caused all sorts of damage to my vocal folds apparently) is really depressing and distressing. I know how to modify resonance without being breathy and straining to raise pitch but resonance alone with a 135hz voice won't cut it, and I think that's what I'm looking at at the end of the 2 month no talking period (stricter for me because of swelling that hadn't gone down enough at the 1 week mark).
Something I have found incredibly hard about this operation has been having to be silent. No one has talked about this much, but I have literally had mornings where I woke up crying due to dreams where people couldn't hear me and were ignoring me, and I am so frustrated so often when I can't stop someone and ask a question with my voice when they are out of reach and not looking. I feel emotionally separated from my partner and my family and really really isolated. I can't express myself in any complexity when limited to the speed with which I can type during a "conversation", and I often miss the opportunity to get to say anything at all. I wasn't prepared for the emotional toll of this aspect of the recovery.
My voice sounds low and croaky and awful as of today, but they said it would until a few weeks after the Botox shot, and that I may not see an increase in pitch until around months 4-6. Right now I just feel like I have months of >-bleeped-< ahead of me with an impassable voice when it was perfectly passable before. The end result should be better than before the op but having to go through this silenced period probably followed by a degendering period where my voice is low and I'm not supposed to do my regular "tricks" to lift it (which caused all sorts of damage to my vocal folds apparently) is really depressing and distressing. I know how to modify resonance without being breathy and straining to raise pitch but resonance alone with a 135hz voice won't cut it, and I think that's what I'm looking at at the end of the 2 month no talking period (stricter for me because of swelling that hadn't gone down enough at the 1 week mark).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 10:25:53 AM
Dont worry too much on speaking a lower pitch for a while. For once, people already know you had surgery or some damage, so they will be gentle to you about this Also, my voice had dropped to 130 Hz average since my voice doctor here discovered I had that damage from trying too long to speak elevated and had me do voice rehab - as a result my voice is more healthy now but dropped to 130-140 Hz. I do have apparently a mostly female resonance as people tell me I should have no issue, if I mention that I want surgery they ask me "do you have pain? why would you want surgery?" - to my own amazement, the voice seems to be deep and low pitched but apparently female or androgynous enough to allow people to gender me correctly if they also see me. On the phone its a different story though, but that is bearable for a while. So dont worry, I dont think you will be outed or de-gendered from the voice, given that you obviously will have surgical laryngitis which is a good explanation that people will have in their heads about why your voice is so deep.
Bu tI certainly hope that I will not have a big drop after the surgery - if I drop to 110 Hz which is my original pitch, that definitely is according to my voice therapist below the point where she would perceive my voice still female. But for most, a small increase at least was already happening soon after.
Does it cause issues with the new voice if you do something to elevate it? I mean after all you still should be able to use your voice melody and that means going up in pitch as well, right? Or do you have to stay in a monotonous voice?
Bu tI certainly hope that I will not have a big drop after the surgery - if I drop to 110 Hz which is my original pitch, that definitely is according to my voice therapist below the point where she would perceive my voice still female. But for most, a small increase at least was already happening soon after.
Does it cause issues with the new voice if you do something to elevate it? I mean after all you still should be able to use your voice melody and that means going up in pitch as well, right? Or do you have to stay in a monotonous voice?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 15, 2015, 10:33:52 AM
Post by: ReDucks on February 15, 2015, 10:33:52 AM
Quote from: seattlesarah on February 15, 2015, 09:42:41 AMStay Strong SS, you can handle it. I was there just before you, . I think you've hit the 'why don't you stay and sightsee' question on the head. It is very hard to communicate even when you can use your voice... after it is nearly impossible.
I had the surgery on the 29th of January and stayed in Seoul a total of 9 days. I enjoyed aspects of Seoul but I couldn't wait to leave and I'll never go back just to visit. I feel like I've seen the place pretty comprehensively now and I didn't enjoy the general feel of it enough to want to experience it again. I guess you have to go to understand. I went to Tokyo for a week after and it was like I could breathe again somehow. Tokyo has a much harder to use subway system and Korean food is better than Japanese imo, but I just jived with the Japanese aesthetic and way of interacting. A lot more people there understand Engliah too so it's not as isolating.
Something I have found incredibly hard about this operation has been having to be silent. No one has talked about this much, but I have literally had mornings where I woke up crying due to dreams where people couldn't hear me and were ignoring me, and I am so frustrated so often when I can't stop someone and ask a question with my voice when they are out of reach and not looking. I feel emotionally separated from my partner and my family and really really isolated. I can't express myself in any complexity when limited to the speed with which I can type during a "conversation", and I often miss the opportunity to get to say anything at all. I wasn't prepared for the emotional toll of this aspect of the recovery.
My voice sounds low and croaky and awful as of today, but they said it would until a few weeks after the Botox shot, and that I may not see an increase in pitch until around months 4-6. Right now I just feel like I have months of >-bleeped-< ahead of me with an impassable voice when it was perfectly passable before. The end result should be better than before the op but having to go through this silenced period probably followed by a degendering period where my voice is low and I'm not supposed to do my regular "tricks" to lift it (which caused all sorts of damage to my vocal folds apparently) is really depressing and distressing. I know how to modify resonance without being breathy and straining to raise pitch but resonance alone with a 135hz voice won't cut it, and I think that's what I'm looking at at the end of the 2 month no talking period (stricter for me because of swelling that hadn't gone down enough at the 1 week mark).
I also had the Botox and had a couple miss-steps on the plane and the way home, but nothing bad happened, and now almost at my 1 month mark (where I can talk short conversations), my voice is starting to clear up but it is hoarse sounding. I haven't spoken enough to tell if it will get worse with use, but right now my pitch is definitely higher than it was. (You and I have the same starting place at 135Hz). If in doubt ask Jessie, but unless you're bleeding, I wouldn't be too concerned about any damage.
The silence is also the hardest part for me. I wake up most mornings in the midst of a dream where I am talking, and worry that I may have been talking in my sleep. So far, I haven't been loud enough to wake up my partner so I am guessing not... either way, I tis only 3 weeks into a long journey so there is a lot of time for things to heal and get better.
I'm pulling for you, I hope it gets easier for you with time. Have you found a voice therapist in the area yet? PM me when you get 15 posts if you do, I haven't found anyone t-friendly who has openings so far.
Anjaq, the difference I think in speaking higher or singing after surgery is that you should do it with full voice not with the breathy squeezed 'trained' voice that many of us developed before we knew it was bad for our folds. In that regard, our old 'tricks' won't be available for us or won't produce the same sounding voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 11:25:35 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 11:25:35 AM
I think with voice rehab due to my voice damage what I still have is a bit of a breathy voice, but we worked on unlearning the squeezing already. Well. Its going to be an adventure. Worst case is , I would have to learn some new ways to make my voice sound not just high pitched but also female again :\
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 15, 2015, 11:33:39 AM
Post by: ReDucks on February 15, 2015, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 11:25:35 AMAnjaq, I think you have the properly trained voice that isn't going to be adversely affected by the surgery. Dr. Kim mentioned that having proper training in advance would help achieve better results (if pitch is your goal) as it did with J-Mi.
I think with voice rehab due to my voice damage what I still have is a bit of a breathy voice, but we worked on unlearning the squeezing already. Well. Its going to be an adventure. Worst case is , I would have to learn some new ways to make my voice sound not just high pitched but also female again :\
Keeping a positive attitude really helps me get through the uncertainty. That and drinking lots of water :)
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 15, 2015, 02:06:50 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 15, 2015, 02:06:50 PM
Honestly the silence is a small price to pay for me not having to worry about my voice ever again. I mean right now I can go out, pass (often without makeup) but from the time I open my mouth it's "sir" or "him." Today I walked into a fast food restaurant and proceed to order. I start talking and the cashier started to grin uncontrollably. I think I've just been clocked... Ugh. At least I didn't get sir.
But yeah I can get how it is stressful not being able to talk. But I keep my eyes on the prize,
But yeah I can get how it is stressful not being able to talk. But I keep my eyes on the prize,
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 03:02:42 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 15, 2015, 03:02:42 PM
I am not even sure it will be that hard. The worst might be among friends since I might forget myself there. But sometimes i have rather silent days anyways and just dont talk a lot. Either if I am in that kind of mood or if I am very self conscious that day about my voice and dont want to use it anyways a lot. My worries are way way more about coughing and sneezing since I do both rather uncontrolled :( - And me having a bronchitis right now, 10 days pre op does not really help boost my confidence that I can make it without a cough for 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on February 15, 2015, 04:35:30 PM
Post by: Wynternight on February 15, 2015, 04:35:30 PM
I honestly can't wait for a month of silence. I may be weird but I love silence and not talking. I don't think it will bother me too much.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 15, 2015, 04:43:13 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 15, 2015, 04:43:13 PM
Yeah coughing and sneezing are a problem. I'm more worried about the kids doing something and I can't talk to them. My son especially doesn't listen to anyone but me. He totally tunes out his mom. His teachers write me notes every week. :( We are practicing though as I know 2 months of silence is not going to be easy.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 15, 2015, 07:17:33 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 15, 2015, 07:17:33 PM
For me the protocol was one week of silence after surgery then 3 more weeks of only one or two words a day, then at 1 month post-op short conversations of a few sentences, then at 2 months the exercises start and you can speak a normal amount. Coughing and sneezing shouldn't be a big problem if you resist the urge to vocalize during them, but having cold symptoms before surgery is one of the things that I think they will not accept. Anjaq my thoughts are with you for full healing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on February 16, 2015, 05:36:48 PM
Post by: seattlesarah on February 16, 2015, 05:36:48 PM
Thanks ReDucks and Anjaq for the reassurance. I haven't started looking for a voice therapist yet ReDucks, I have to organise moving house and getting some work done on my PhD right now so I am super busy.
But I have amazing news! I just had to get some reassurance so even though I'm not even 3 weeks post-op, I recorded myself saying a few words (not many, softly, and I'm resting again for another week now). My unmodified, speaking as nature allows me voice is now at the same pitch level as my old "trained" voice when I was relaxed and around people I knew well and had let it drop a bit. This is a pitch increase of my unmodified voice of 37 Hz in just 3 weeks! And that's less than 2 weeks after the botox injection.
It sounded like Barry White after smoking for 50 years just a few days ago when I accidentally said a few words so I'm enormously relieved. I should get the standard 75Hz increase so the operation has worked. :)
But I have amazing news! I just had to get some reassurance so even though I'm not even 3 weeks post-op, I recorded myself saying a few words (not many, softly, and I'm resting again for another week now). My unmodified, speaking as nature allows me voice is now at the same pitch level as my old "trained" voice when I was relaxed and around people I knew well and had let it drop a bit. This is a pitch increase of my unmodified voice of 37 Hz in just 3 weeks! And that's less than 2 weeks after the botox injection.
It sounded like Barry White after smoking for 50 years just a few days ago when I accidentally said a few words so I'm enormously relieved. I should get the standard 75Hz increase so the operation has worked. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: voodle on February 16, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
Post by: voodle on February 16, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
Haha it's weird to think how much I must have screwed things up with coughing since initially I only went up a few hz and you've already got a nearly 40hz pitch increase, that's great :D I suspect my lack of trained voice had a big effect on that though - one thing I'm noticing is that at lower pitches, the surgery doesn't make a lot of difference, but it makes higher pitches much more easily possible than they were before the surgery and they sound better.
I don't like sharing them but I have some early videos of my voice just about a week after the surgery and I sounded pretty similar to your first concerned post, it improves quite quickly though and it's mostly the effect of the botox.
It's crazy to think I did actually have a good result - I went to a group speech therapy session the other day and I felt so bad, it was like I was wasting everyone else's time because my voice is actually already there :/ (although I do think it still has room for improvement). The speech therapist kinda did that on purpose.
edit: daaaamn, I mean comparatively I did get a rubbish result haha, girls having the surgery now are getting amazing results almost immediately after the surgery compared to what Yeson used to achieve?
haha aaand now I'm in a bad mood again, hooray! my untrained voice still drops to 130hz (160hz average) while my trained voice is more like 190hz minimum (250hz average). hmmmmm
Maybe I should just move on and not visit voice surgery threads again, all it does is depress me with the realisation of how hard everything was and how not great my result is.
edit more: idk, I'm being stupid again, this surgery doesn't (in my case) specifically raise pitch, it does however make it easier to make higher pitches and sound good at those pitches, so I should go to bed.
I don't like sharing them but I have some early videos of my voice just about a week after the surgery and I sounded pretty similar to your first concerned post, it improves quite quickly though and it's mostly the effect of the botox.
It's crazy to think I did actually have a good result - I went to a group speech therapy session the other day and I felt so bad, it was like I was wasting everyone else's time because my voice is actually already there :/ (although I do think it still has room for improvement). The speech therapist kinda did that on purpose.
edit: daaaamn, I mean comparatively I did get a rubbish result haha, girls having the surgery now are getting amazing results almost immediately after the surgery compared to what Yeson used to achieve?
haha aaand now I'm in a bad mood again, hooray! my untrained voice still drops to 130hz (160hz average) while my trained voice is more like 190hz minimum (250hz average). hmmmmm
Maybe I should just move on and not visit voice surgery threads again, all it does is depress me with the realisation of how hard everything was and how not great my result is.
edit more: idk, I'm being stupid again, this surgery doesn't (in my case) specifically raise pitch, it does however make it easier to make higher pitches and sound good at those pitches, so I should go to bed.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on February 16, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
Post by: kwala on February 16, 2015, 09:36:50 PM
Quote from: voodle on February 16, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
Haha it's weird to think how much I must have screwed things up with coughing since initially I only went up a few hz and you've already got a nearly 40hz pitch increase, that's great :D I suspect my lack of trained voice had a big effect on that though - one thing I'm noticing is that at lower pitches, the surgery doesn't make a lot of difference, but it makes higher pitches much more easily possible than they were before the surgery and they sound better.
I don't like sharing them but I have some early videos of my voice just about a week after the surgery and I sounded pretty similar to your first concerned post, it improves quite quickly though and it's mostly the effect of the botox.
It's crazy to think I did actually have a good result - I went to a group speech therapy session the other day and I felt so bad, it was like I was wasting everyone else's time because my voice is actually already there :/ (although I do think it still has room for improvement). The speech therapist kinda did that on purpose.
edit: daaaamn, I mean comparatively I did get a rubbish result haha, girls having the surgery now are getting amazing results almost immediately after the surgery compared to what Yeson used to achieve?
haha aaand now I'm in a bad mood again, hooray! my untrained voice still drops to 130hz (160hz average) while my trained voice is more like 190hz minimum (250hz average). hmmmmm
Maybe I should just move on and not visit voice surgery threads again, all it does is depress me with the realisation of how hard everything was and how not great my result is.
edit more: idk, I'm being stupid again, this surgery doesn't (in my case) specifically raise pitch, it does however make it easier to make higher pitches and sound good at those pitches, so I should go to bed.
Voodle, dear, your voice sounds WONDERFUL and everyone who has heard it here thinks so. Remember that everyone, regardless of gender, has a unique voice in terms of quality and pitch so I wouldn't get too hung up on comparing your results with others. Your voice sounds great to me, and unmistakably feminine even when you speak in your "untrained register." There may be a few little quirks that bother you and I'm sure that the therapist can help you with whatever those may be, but to the rest of us, it already sounds amazing. If I undergo this surgery and have an end result like yours it I will consider it 100% successful :).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on February 16, 2015, 11:28:49 PM
Post by: ElleA on February 16, 2015, 11:28:49 PM
Hi Seattlesarah, what date did you have yours done, mine was on Feb 3rd so we must have been in Seoul at the same time. I haven't been game enough to say anything so far but the one accidental word I did say was the same as you say, at my trained pitch which is an awesome outcome for me. I am still hopeful that It will get better from here but even if it didn't change any further I would be pretty happy.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Rachelicious on February 16, 2015, 11:36:25 PM
Post by: Rachelicious on February 16, 2015, 11:36:25 PM
Please get it out of your head that "being able to" hit 130hz is weird, it's just going to sideline people into your myopic and idealised perspective of your voice that, honestly, goes beyond any gender cues perceptible to others.
This is voice feminization surgery. I know voice frequences and I can tell you it is far from uncommon for a woman's speaking range to extend that low in relaxed dialogue - it should very much be a lower extreme of sorts, and *not* where speech tends to dwell, but it is common in women.
Your voice is fine. Go have tea.
This is voice feminization surgery. I know voice frequences and I can tell you it is far from uncommon for a woman's speaking range to extend that low in relaxed dialogue - it should very much be a lower extreme of sorts, and *not* where speech tends to dwell, but it is common in women.
Your voice is fine. Go have tea.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 17, 2015, 03:44:27 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 17, 2015, 03:44:27 AM
Quote from: Rachelicious on February 16, 2015, 11:36:25 PMWell, I would not dismiss Voodles issues. If her average voice now is in a relaxed mode at 160 Hz, its not really the increase she hoped for, giving her 200 Hz . And it may well be that it is so - Yesons number 75 is an average increase, this means for some it may be a little less and for some it may be more. So its well possible she only got lets say 40 Hz increase and is disappointed by that, despite her voice really sounding good to my ears too, but one would have to compare pre and post op trained and untrained voice recordings to get a clearer picture of how much has changed.
Please get it out of your head that "being able to" hit 130hz is weird, it's just going to sideline people into your myopic and idealised perspective of your voice that, honestly, goes beyond any gender cues perceptible to others.
This is voice feminization surgery. I know voice frequences and I can tell you it is far from uncommon for a woman's speaking range to extend that low in relaxed dialogue - it should very much be a lower extreme of sorts, and *not* where speech tends to dwell, but it is common in women.
Your voice is fine. Go have tea.
I think 130 Hz should rather be the bottom of the voice. Presently 130 Hz is above my realxed level or around that. If I drop low I got into the two digit numbers. So I would hope that later 130 Hz would feel like the two digits now. But if the voice rests in a relaxed manner at the 130 Hz, I would be disappointed as this is what it does right now as well. Voodle - can you tell us where those 130 Hz for you are? Are they the very bottom of your voice or is it a relaxed speech for you? I did not perceive a 130 Hz word in your recording, so I kind of assume that it is more the lower limit if you try to speak really low. What was your low end before? In many who had VFS the low end before was 80 or 90 Hz and it went up to 130 Hz.
Quote from: voodle on February 16, 2015, 06:35:40 PMI doubt it has to do with the coughing. I hope so, since I will go into the surgery just recovering from a cold and certainly will have to cough a few times :( - but Yeson gives out that chart with different edevelopments and for some it is initially faster and for some it is slower, he did not say why that is though, AFAIK... So you were just not one of those who had a fast increase. I suspect I will not be one either since my body tends to react with a lot of swelling to surgeries and this would certainly bring down the pitch.
Haha it's weird to think how much I must have screwed things up with coughing since initially I only went up a few hz and you've already got a nearly 40hz pitch increase, that's great
Also I dont think it has to do nything with "nowadays" - In the FB group there are some who had the same issues - slow initial pitch gain but later on it was going up - and they had surgery within the past 6 months. Dont be so hard on yourself, please.
QuoteIt's crazy to think I did actually have a good result - I went to a group speech therapy session the other day and I felt so bad, it was like I was wasting everyone else's time because my voice is actually already there :/ (although I do think it still has room for improvement). The speech therapist kinda did that on purpose.Yes. To remind you that your surgery DID work and that it is a alot easier now for you to speak normally, right?
I think you are right with the statement that the surger mainly makes it easier to use a new voice. It gives you a new instrument and it is easiert to play it at a higher pitch. That does not mean it is impossible to hit some pretty low pitches with some effort but the "sweet point" where your voice returns to in a relaxed mood should be higher, the pitch to speak in easily should be higher and the upper trange should be easier accessible. I think all of that was achieved to you - the VFS does not make you sound like a cis teenage girl, it just takes your voice and makes it less likely to hit low pitches, cuts off the very bottom and makes it easier to reach the upper pitches for speaking. Also it should take away some of the low timbre of the voice, which is not really measurable that easily, but it is audible and is why your "low pitch voice" still sounds very much like a woman trying to speak low and not male.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 04:40:09 AM
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 04:40:09 AM
Quote from: ElleA on February 16, 2015, 11:28:49 PM
Hi Seattlesarah, what date did you have yours done, mine was on Feb 3rd so we must have been in Seoul at the same time. I haven't been game enough to say anything so far but the one accidental word I did say was the same as you say, at my trained pitch which is an awesome outcome for me. I am still hopeful that It will get better from here but even if it didn't change any further I would be pretty happy.
Jan 29 for me. How strange we didn't see each other in a city of 10 million people. ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on February 17, 2015, 04:41:19 AM
Post by: ElleA on February 17, 2015, 04:41:19 AM
Haha, it was probably because it was so cold we were inside most of the time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: celinemealone on February 17, 2015, 05:09:08 AM
Post by: celinemealone on February 17, 2015, 05:09:08 AM
Yes I hope coughing doesn't effect the outcome too, because it was quite sad that i was able to have kept silence until the checkup and than the coughs started and those coughs are the ones i cant control. On my positive side i think coughing abit after the 6days healing should be fine (as Jessie said so) and better than the first few days, but on the negative side I cant tell if i have done any damaged or not as I cannot be reassured by Dr. Kim.
You know when you damaged the sutures as you will have severe throat pain and alot of blood coughed up, but on top of that I really if that is the only degree that you can damage it.
I kinda wish Yeson has a hospitalization system and a longer period of treatment for post-op patients as it will mean a lot more of reassurance and really a peace of mind.
I really liked Korea and enjoyed my stay up until the silence period. Getting around was no longer pleasant as get dressed and head to the subway station or get a cab. I had the fear of suddenly sneezing or coughing when out as it was cold when I was there. When I can no longer speak it was very frustrating to get a taxi (taxi drivers can get very rude) and also to eat out or even go shopping. Mainly because people thought that I was Korean and so they talk to me in Korean. Im very likely to come back to Korea because being to talk would make it so much better and worthwhile.
You know when you damaged the sutures as you will have severe throat pain and alot of blood coughed up, but on top of that I really if that is the only degree that you can damage it.
I kinda wish Yeson has a hospitalization system and a longer period of treatment for post-op patients as it will mean a lot more of reassurance and really a peace of mind.
I really liked Korea and enjoyed my stay up until the silence period. Getting around was no longer pleasant as get dressed and head to the subway station or get a cab. I had the fear of suddenly sneezing or coughing when out as it was cold when I was there. When I can no longer speak it was very frustrating to get a taxi (taxi drivers can get very rude) and also to eat out or even go shopping. Mainly because people thought that I was Korean and so they talk to me in Korean. Im very likely to come back to Korea because being to talk would make it so much better and worthwhile.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 17, 2015, 06:00:36 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 17, 2015, 06:00:36 AM
I so will pump my body full of cough suppressants in the forst week since I really would cough a lot otherwise. I guess I am less afraid of rupturing the whole suture, but tht delicate little bit that will give my voice its good sound as opposed to stay hoarse or breathy - if I had wanted that, I could have done the surgery for almost free in my country. But I really think, if one can plan it freely - always choose a summer date...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 06:12:38 AM
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 06:12:38 AM
It really pays to use the subway there, it's incredibly easy and clean and cheap and efficient. It's the best subway I have seen anywhere in the world. I went to Tokyo straight after and it was a nightmare by comparison, and Tokyo's is actually excellent.
I hate hospitalisation so even though I had a few coughs during the week I'd rather have been in my hotel and out and about than stuck in a hospital bed. I don't think anything can reduce post-op anxiety, I had it with both FFS and SRS regardless of being in a hospital bed for 5 days after each (maybe it was 3 for FFS I don't remember now). I think the whole process could be a little improved by having them practice safe coughing with you before the op so you know exactly how to handle it. If coughing makes the outcome worse, then I'll definitely have a less than optimal outcome. I was really choking on phlegm for the first 5 days and a little cough here and there couldn't possibly be prevented.
The cold made me really nervous too. I ended up using a face mask to keep the cold air out of my throat, and I carried a small bottle of hand sanitizer to use after every subway trip and before eating, being very conscious of touching my face. I also had a flu shot before going. Make sure you pack thermal underwear and layer your clothes because some of the buildings are super overheated - the Yeson offices included (it gets really hot in there at the end of the day). I ended up fine and my partner caught a cold!
I hate hospitalisation so even though I had a few coughs during the week I'd rather have been in my hotel and out and about than stuck in a hospital bed. I don't think anything can reduce post-op anxiety, I had it with both FFS and SRS regardless of being in a hospital bed for 5 days after each (maybe it was 3 for FFS I don't remember now). I think the whole process could be a little improved by having them practice safe coughing with you before the op so you know exactly how to handle it. If coughing makes the outcome worse, then I'll definitely have a less than optimal outcome. I was really choking on phlegm for the first 5 days and a little cough here and there couldn't possibly be prevented.
The cold made me really nervous too. I ended up using a face mask to keep the cold air out of my throat, and I carried a small bottle of hand sanitizer to use after every subway trip and before eating, being very conscious of touching my face. I also had a flu shot before going. Make sure you pack thermal underwear and layer your clothes because some of the buildings are super overheated - the Yeson offices included (it gets really hot in there at the end of the day). I ended up fine and my partner caught a cold!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 17, 2015, 07:50:04 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 17, 2015, 07:50:04 AM
Ok, thanks for the tipps. I will definitely buy those face masks you described. Probably they sell them everywhere there? I am a bir scared of subways with lots of people to get sick from. Maybe I will take a taxi from the airport and during the first days to go to the clinic and back - its not cheap , but I dont want to get a flu from some Koreans in the subway. After all its not the cold that gets you a cold but the viruses by the people. But sweating certainly is not a good idea. I try and practise to cough without it being too painful or hard on the throat and sometimes it works, sometimes not. I hope I am doing this right , I was told, there is an explanation how to do this at Yeson, so I will definitely need that. Plus the cough suppressants I am going to bring some, in case they have none or only weak ones there. I heard mixed things from others at Yeson - some seem to have gotten cough suppressants, others apparently not. May depend on the time of year though.
Oh I am nervous :P
Oh I am nervous :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 17, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 17, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
I got single dose packets of cough suppressant to take with each dose of the pills I took 3x a day, that seemed to work pretty well but I had no cough at all so far since surgery so maybe it was just that I didn't need to cough. You can always bring some with you just keep it under the airline max per container.
I find that the trick to clear the throat without using the vocal cords is to breathe out through your mouth like you are trying to fog a mirror. Try to make the sound haa not heh and drop your jaw while you do it. That is how I feel the least friction in my throat, you may be different. Now while doin gthat, just concentrate the breath into a short burst from the diaphragm like you got hit in the stomach but were ready for it. Do that over and over until you feel the urge to clear your throat go away, swallowing / spitting out anything that comes up.
I got the flu shot and while at the Dr. for that, I noticed they had surgical masks in the lobby to use if you had a cold so I grabbed a couple of those to use if I needed to. (I didn't)
My flight came in before 5pm Seoul time, so the free ride from the airport was available. If your flight is also before 5, you might be able to get that if it is still being offered.
Good luck Anjaq, don't be nervous :)
I find that the trick to clear the throat without using the vocal cords is to breathe out through your mouth like you are trying to fog a mirror. Try to make the sound haa not heh and drop your jaw while you do it. That is how I feel the least friction in my throat, you may be different. Now while doin gthat, just concentrate the breath into a short burst from the diaphragm like you got hit in the stomach but were ready for it. Do that over and over until you feel the urge to clear your throat go away, swallowing / spitting out anything that comes up.
I got the flu shot and while at the Dr. for that, I noticed they had surgical masks in the lobby to use if you had a cold so I grabbed a couple of those to use if I needed to. (I didn't)
My flight came in before 5pm Seoul time, so the free ride from the airport was available. If your flight is also before 5, you might be able to get that if it is still being offered.
Good luck Anjaq, don't be nervous :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 06:07:59 PM
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 06:07:59 PM
Surgical masks are at all the convenience stores, and the subways all have one.
See I understand what to do now to cough properly because I just got to read a good description of it - I didn't get what they were telling me to do at the clinic at ALL. I just can't take instructions verbally. This is why my job options are so restricted.
Anjaq I caught the subway 4 to 8 times a day and didn't get sick. Masks for the cold air and more importantly, an awareness of touching public objects and using hand sanitizer when you do will keep you safe. Most viruses are transmitted onto your skin and then into your mouth. You're no less exposed in a taxi because it is also a public space and you're touching the same things a million other people have so at least use hand sanitizer. Oh and carry some hand cream too because hand sanitizer plus cold dry air drys out your skin FAST.
See I understand what to do now to cough properly because I just got to read a good description of it - I didn't get what they were telling me to do at the clinic at ALL. I just can't take instructions verbally. This is why my job options are so restricted.
Anjaq I caught the subway 4 to 8 times a day and didn't get sick. Masks for the cold air and more importantly, an awareness of touching public objects and using hand sanitizer when you do will keep you safe. Most viruses are transmitted onto your skin and then into your mouth. You're no less exposed in a taxi because it is also a public space and you're touching the same things a million other people have so at least use hand sanitizer. Oh and carry some hand cream too because hand sanitizer plus cold dry air drys out your skin FAST.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: celinemealone on February 17, 2015, 08:00:19 PM
Post by: celinemealone on February 17, 2015, 08:00:19 PM
Quote from: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 06:07:59 PM
See I understand what to do now to cough properly because I just got to read a good description of it - I didn't get what they were telling me to do at the clinic at ALL. I just can't take instructions verbally. This is why my job options are so restricted.
Me too, All i got told was to open your mouth wide and let all the air out without making any noise, but to me it was quite impossible to not make sound, Im a visual learner too. I got my flu shot right before I left and it really helped. My first flight back from Korea was with Korean air and they were amazing, they gave me a big water bottle to keep hydrated the whole flight. However the transit flight i had to take was with China air and even though i asked, i was told to get it by myself at the fountain. Also make sure you choose the right food on the plane because they all seem very salty to me and definitely stay away from cheese.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 08:07:58 PM
Post by: seattlesarah on February 17, 2015, 08:07:58 PM
?? What's the problem with cheese? I WANT TO EAT ALL OF THE CHEESE.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: celinemealone on February 17, 2015, 08:39:54 PM
Post by: celinemealone on February 17, 2015, 08:39:54 PM
:D i read from a few articles that diary products can produce phlegm, at least for me the cheesy dish i had on the plane triggered some coughs
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: LordKAT on February 17, 2015, 10:15:56 PM
Post by: LordKAT on February 17, 2015, 10:15:56 PM
Dairy thickens phlegm, not causes it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on February 17, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
Post by: Wynternight on February 17, 2015, 10:41:02 PM
So much good info here. I'm hoping I can get mine done before the end of the year.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 17, 2015, 11:04:08 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 17, 2015, 11:04:08 PM
You need to book 3-4 months in advance now. They are pretty busy. Jessie is extremely helpful.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on February 17, 2015, 11:20:26 PM
Post by: Wynternight on February 17, 2015, 11:20:26 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on February 17, 2015, 11:04:08 PM
You need to book 3-4 months in advance now. They are pretty busy. Jessie is extremely helpful.
Money is the issue right now. If I can save enough that it looks doable this year then I'll see about calling them.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 07:00:16 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 07:00:16 AM
Oh thanks for the good winter-related tipps. I am going to be a bit of a hypochondirac then and keep a sanitizer and sanitizer towels with me at all times and get these breathing masks there. I am not sure about the subway still - touching is one thing but if someone sneezes or coughs you can also get sick just from breathing in, right? And that certainly will happen more in a subway than in a taxi with just one driver.
I think I got how to "cough" without coughing but it is not nearly as efficient as coughing and it can cause a cough reflex. So I definitely will take the codeine I got prescribed here with me as well as the DXM and see if I have to or should combine it with whatever they give me there. I am usually good at understanding instructions. I am a bit of a teacher myself after all, so I should.
Sadly I will arrive on a Sunday , so no free pickup is possible from the Airport. Plus apparently now they have until Sunday a new years festival there, so everything is closed until the new year - so when I am arriving there maybe the shops will even be closed , but on Monday the new year probably starts - maybe this means good luck to be one of the patients getting surgery very soon after a new year started?
Greetings
I think I got how to "cough" without coughing but it is not nearly as efficient as coughing and it can cause a cough reflex. So I definitely will take the codeine I got prescribed here with me as well as the DXM and see if I have to or should combine it with whatever they give me there. I am usually good at understanding instructions. I am a bit of a teacher myself after all, so I should.
Sadly I will arrive on a Sunday , so no free pickup is possible from the Airport. Plus apparently now they have until Sunday a new years festival there, so everything is closed until the new year - so when I am arriving there maybe the shops will even be closed , but on Monday the new year probably starts - maybe this means good luck to be one of the patients getting surgery very soon after a new year started?
Greetings
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 18, 2015, 07:18:50 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 18, 2015, 07:18:50 AM
Which hotels would you recommend? Also, how about credit cards? Here in the USA we are so backwards with implementing EMV. We are going chip and signature not chip and PIN which causes issues. Will my card work there? I have one chip and PIN card from UNFCU but if I can avoid using it I would.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 18, 2015, 08:22:18 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 18, 2015, 08:22:18 AM
Hi Anjac this is Michelle from New York, I am an Emergency Room RN. First of all, I want to wish you a safe trip and a successful VFS. My VFS at Yeson was on 22nd January 2015 and I came back on 30th January 2015. Do not worry about anything at Yeson. They are highly trained professionals and very kind and considerate people.
You do not need to take codeine with you as Yeson will give you cough syrup, cough suppressant pills, and antibiotics. You just need a big bottle of water next to you all the time. Whenever you feel that coughing spell is coming just take a sip or two and it will go away. At night you might have a choking feeling due to phlegm accumulation since you wouldn't be allowed to clear your throat. In that case, just drink water and it will go away.
CAUTION! If you do not have any arrangement to pick you up from Incheon airport then be careful of getting into a cab. I was taken for a ride! Majority of the cab drivers are very honest and will not charge you extra. I landed on 20th January 2015 at 5:30 am. Mr. Paul from Phillhouse promised to send a cab but he didn't. I texted him several times but received no answer from him. I was alone and frightened and took a cab to Phillhouse. It was a 50 to 55 minutes ride and cab driver charged me $180 and it was according to his meter. Actual fare should be around $80 and no more than $90. It was very dark I was alone and scared and gave him the money. When I arrived at Phillhouse, Mr. Paul was just waking up from his sleep and I asked him that he promised to send a taxi for me and he didn't, why? He answered, sorry, it was just a mix up and he was sorry. I told Jessie as well she was genuinely very sad to know what had happened to me.
You do not need to take codeine with you as Yeson will give you cough syrup, cough suppressant pills, and antibiotics. You just need a big bottle of water next to you all the time. Whenever you feel that coughing spell is coming just take a sip or two and it will go away. At night you might have a choking feeling due to phlegm accumulation since you wouldn't be allowed to clear your throat. In that case, just drink water and it will go away.
CAUTION! If you do not have any arrangement to pick you up from Incheon airport then be careful of getting into a cab. I was taken for a ride! Majority of the cab drivers are very honest and will not charge you extra. I landed on 20th January 2015 at 5:30 am. Mr. Paul from Phillhouse promised to send a cab but he didn't. I texted him several times but received no answer from him. I was alone and frightened and took a cab to Phillhouse. It was a 50 to 55 minutes ride and cab driver charged me $180 and it was according to his meter. Actual fare should be around $80 and no more than $90. It was very dark I was alone and scared and gave him the money. When I arrived at Phillhouse, Mr. Paul was just waking up from his sleep and I asked him that he promised to send a taxi for me and he didn't, why? He answered, sorry, it was just a mix up and he was sorry. I told Jessie as well she was genuinely very sad to know what had happened to me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 18, 2015, 08:30:26 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 18, 2015, 08:30:26 AM
Imaginekate - My credit card from my chase back worked fine at the Yeson
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 18, 2015, 09:10:12 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 18, 2015, 09:10:12 AM
Quote from: mk854 on February 18, 2015, 08:30:26 AM
Imaginekate - My credit card from my chase back worked fine at the Yeson
Thanks.
My new (replacement) chase visa and my amex platinum both have chips but I think only the amex has a PIN capability. However I'm not sure how widely it is accepted in Korea.
I am more concerned about things like the subway and similar.
I was also thinking of getting a SIM card for my phone when I'm there but since I wouldn't be able to talk, why even bother. There is supposedly free wifi everywhere and my work phone has international roaming if I need to use it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 18, 2015, 09:39:13 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 18, 2015, 09:39:13 AM
Hi Imaginkate, you are welcome, if you have international roaming for your phone then you would have no problem but sim card is another option. I only used my smart phone there mostly text messages and it worked. I don't know about other credit cards but my Chase card worked fine for Yeson. Just keep in mind that if you use credit card then you would be charged extra for international transactions. It is better to take some cash for subway and other rides just in case if your card transaction is denied. However, credit cards can be used for cab rides as well. Best wishes
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 02:23:24 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 02:23:24 PM
Hi, Michelle
Thanks for the reassurance. If the Yeson clinic provides good medication that is really strong, I will of course stick to that. Just some people I asked did not know if they had any. I suppose they just too "the pills" they were given without knowing what they are ;) - since I need to be extra careful with the coughing maybe I will take a bit more than the usual dosage, so I will take some with me just to be sure. I also need to eat slowly - if I eat too fast or too much I have phlegm :( - Also I need to coordinate the antibiotics - I am still on AB until tuesday, the examination day - they are against the bacterial part of my bronchitis. I was told to stop them 2 days after I get well, but am not sure if I consider myself well , given that I am still coughing. I will have to ask Jessie about that on Monday when I am there, before that they are on holidays. Maybe I just take the same AB some more time, or we have to make sure that the new AB matches the onld one I got now.
I will take my "Camelback" for the water, I think. At least for running arond in the city if I make that happening. Then I am no more than 3 seconds away from a sip of water ;)
I am sure it will not always work, I can just hope to be good enough in supressing the coughing so that it does not happen too often.
Mr Paul from Phil House recommended we take the Bus or train from ICN as the cab supposedly is about 60-70EU (or more as you describe). It involves several transfers though to the subway and I dont know yet how to use the subway. I do bring some physical money with me though, so it should not be an issue to buy a train ticket or bus ticket first and then and subway ticket. I just need to find the Phil house then from the subway station. He said Exit 3, but I have no idea if I will then find it right away or walk into a different direction :P - my mobile wont work with data there either I suppose unless I feind free Wifi spots, so I cannot even use google maps to navigate. But maybe I can print out a small map of the area in advance. I definitely will take the cab to go to the clinic and back I think. it is not far and I dont think it can cost much, can it (it is 15 minutes by cab, Jessie said)? Maybe for the post op examination thats not needed anymore, but on the first day I dont want to miss the time and of course for surgery I want to be relaxed and get an easy ride there and back - I will be soooo stomped after the anaesthesia... and sooo nervous before, so better use a cab then.
Do you have any recommendations what to do near Phil house? any places to get important stuff like water or food or breathing masks or Wifi? ;) Is Phil house nice? We will be there in a twin Room, me and a friend.
Greetings
Anja
Thanks for the reassurance. If the Yeson clinic provides good medication that is really strong, I will of course stick to that. Just some people I asked did not know if they had any. I suppose they just too "the pills" they were given without knowing what they are ;) - since I need to be extra careful with the coughing maybe I will take a bit more than the usual dosage, so I will take some with me just to be sure. I also need to eat slowly - if I eat too fast or too much I have phlegm :( - Also I need to coordinate the antibiotics - I am still on AB until tuesday, the examination day - they are against the bacterial part of my bronchitis. I was told to stop them 2 days after I get well, but am not sure if I consider myself well , given that I am still coughing. I will have to ask Jessie about that on Monday when I am there, before that they are on holidays. Maybe I just take the same AB some more time, or we have to make sure that the new AB matches the onld one I got now.
I will take my "Camelback" for the water, I think. At least for running arond in the city if I make that happening. Then I am no more than 3 seconds away from a sip of water ;)
I am sure it will not always work, I can just hope to be good enough in supressing the coughing so that it does not happen too often.
Mr Paul from Phil House recommended we take the Bus or train from ICN as the cab supposedly is about 60-70EU (or more as you describe). It involves several transfers though to the subway and I dont know yet how to use the subway. I do bring some physical money with me though, so it should not be an issue to buy a train ticket or bus ticket first and then and subway ticket. I just need to find the Phil house then from the subway station. He said Exit 3, but I have no idea if I will then find it right away or walk into a different direction :P - my mobile wont work with data there either I suppose unless I feind free Wifi spots, so I cannot even use google maps to navigate. But maybe I can print out a small map of the area in advance. I definitely will take the cab to go to the clinic and back I think. it is not far and I dont think it can cost much, can it (it is 15 minutes by cab, Jessie said)? Maybe for the post op examination thats not needed anymore, but on the first day I dont want to miss the time and of course for surgery I want to be relaxed and get an easy ride there and back - I will be soooo stomped after the anaesthesia... and sooo nervous before, so better use a cab then.
Do you have any recommendations what to do near Phil house? any places to get important stuff like water or food or breathing masks or Wifi? ;) Is Phil house nice? We will be there in a twin Room, me and a friend.
Greetings
Anja
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 02:25:23 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 02:25:23 PM
Oh and I understand they take "Maestro Card" or "EC Card", the usual european chip-cardmoney with PIN to get money from ATMs? I hope this is true. Dies Yeson also take this payment for the Botox? The rest of the money is already there, but I need to get enough for the Botox and I have no PIN for my Credit Card, I could just use it with signature , if Yeson takes that?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 18, 2015, 03:13:42 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 18, 2015, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 02:25:23 PM
Oh and I understand they take "Maestro Card" or "EC Card", the usual european chip-cardmoney with PIN to get money from ATMs? I hope this is true. Dies Yeson also take this payment for the Botox? The rest of the money is already there, but I need to get enough for the Botox and I have no PIN for my Credit Card, I could just use it with signature , if Yeson takes that?
Yeson uses signature for your card. my card has no chip or pin and it worked fine. I made sure to tell my card company that I was in Korea so they didn't block it from working due to fraud prevention. I paid cash in US$ for Botox just to avoid any currency exchange charges - they took it without comment. I didn't try to use an ATM while I was there.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on February 18, 2015, 11:44:43 PM
Post by: ElleA on February 18, 2015, 11:44:43 PM
We used plenty of ATMs and visa almost everywhere we went. It's all signatures except the ATMs
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 04:28:22 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 04:28:22 AM
Hi Anjac,
Medications from Yeson are very strong and effective. You really don't need extra medications with you. Please don't overdose on cough medications or they wouldn't work. If it makes you feel better, just take it with you but do not use it.
For your cough and AB, just contact Yeson for better advice. Exchange your money at the airport it is easier and safer.
Remember that water almost always works instantly to reduce coughing spell because it lubricates dry mucous membrane and thins out phlegm. Teach your brain from now on that water WILL work, ha-ha.
I asked anesthesiologist prior to surgery about anesthetics. Yeson uses Propofol which is a safe, quick and short acting drug. Once they stop the drip you will wake up quickly with no after effects. You will meet anesthesiologist right before surgery in your room. You can ask as many questions as you want.
From ICN to Phillhouse, I think, you should take the bus and then a cab. It would be easier and cheaper to reach to Phillhouse and you don't need to look for it. Make sure you print out Phillhouse address in both Korean and English. Also, print out the confirmation and instructions document sent to you by Jessie. It contains Yeson address in both languages. I highlighted that address with a yellow highlighter and made a few copies. I just showed highlighted portion to cab drivers and had no problem. From Phil to Yeson it is only $10 and a quick ride.
I didn't use subway because I was scared to get lost. However, subway stop and Taxi stand are just 3 to 4 minutes' walk to Phillhouse or even less. I traveled once by subway there but with another lady who was living at Phill and worked in Korea and it was very smooth and quick ride. All the passengers are well behaved and no one talks to anyone, very quiet ride; Stops signs are in both languages (English/Korean).
There is a 24 hour shop right underneath Phillhouse. I bought eight bottles 1.5 or 2 liters each and that was enough for me. They have a lot of stuff in that shop. There is another strip of shops just across the subway stop and you can buy almost everything there (organic vegies, fruits, eggs, house hold items etc.). You can ask Phillhouse especially Massie for directions to these places. Massie speaks English and she is very helpful. There is a huge park right next to Phillhouse, beautiful to walk.
Yes you do have Wi-Fi at Phillouse and at Yeson. Phillhouse has a couple of computers downstairs for you to use if you need. Accommodation @ Phill is ok and not bad at all and is cheap compare to other places.
I had no problem using my credit card at yeson you just need to sign the transaction. I used my CC for the Botox and gave cash for surgery. Just remember, if you use CC there would be an extra charge for international transaction.
If you need my help while there and want to contact me via email the let me know I'll give you my email address. Best wishes
Medications from Yeson are very strong and effective. You really don't need extra medications with you. Please don't overdose on cough medications or they wouldn't work. If it makes you feel better, just take it with you but do not use it.
For your cough and AB, just contact Yeson for better advice. Exchange your money at the airport it is easier and safer.
Remember that water almost always works instantly to reduce coughing spell because it lubricates dry mucous membrane and thins out phlegm. Teach your brain from now on that water WILL work, ha-ha.
I asked anesthesiologist prior to surgery about anesthetics. Yeson uses Propofol which is a safe, quick and short acting drug. Once they stop the drip you will wake up quickly with no after effects. You will meet anesthesiologist right before surgery in your room. You can ask as many questions as you want.
From ICN to Phillhouse, I think, you should take the bus and then a cab. It would be easier and cheaper to reach to Phillhouse and you don't need to look for it. Make sure you print out Phillhouse address in both Korean and English. Also, print out the confirmation and instructions document sent to you by Jessie. It contains Yeson address in both languages. I highlighted that address with a yellow highlighter and made a few copies. I just showed highlighted portion to cab drivers and had no problem. From Phil to Yeson it is only $10 and a quick ride.
I didn't use subway because I was scared to get lost. However, subway stop and Taxi stand are just 3 to 4 minutes' walk to Phillhouse or even less. I traveled once by subway there but with another lady who was living at Phill and worked in Korea and it was very smooth and quick ride. All the passengers are well behaved and no one talks to anyone, very quiet ride; Stops signs are in both languages (English/Korean).
There is a 24 hour shop right underneath Phillhouse. I bought eight bottles 1.5 or 2 liters each and that was enough for me. They have a lot of stuff in that shop. There is another strip of shops just across the subway stop and you can buy almost everything there (organic vegies, fruits, eggs, house hold items etc.). You can ask Phillhouse especially Massie for directions to these places. Massie speaks English and she is very helpful. There is a huge park right next to Phillhouse, beautiful to walk.
Yes you do have Wi-Fi at Phillouse and at Yeson. Phillhouse has a couple of computers downstairs for you to use if you need. Accommodation @ Phill is ok and not bad at all and is cheap compare to other places.
I had no problem using my credit card at yeson you just need to sign the transaction. I used my CC for the Botox and gave cash for surgery. Just remember, if you use CC there would be an extra charge for international transaction.
If you need my help while there and want to contact me via email the let me know I'll give you my email address. Best wishes
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 04:34:38 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 04:34:38 AM
Hi ElleA,
How are you doing? Today is my 29th day post VFS; I am still at home and will go to work at Feb 23. Please keep in touch so that we can share the results. I wish you a speedy recovery. Michelle
How are you doing? Today is my 29th day post VFS; I am still at home and will go to work at Feb 23. Please keep in touch so that we can share the results. I wish you a speedy recovery. Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on February 19, 2015, 04:52:17 AM
Post by: ElleA on February 19, 2015, 04:52:17 AM
Hi mk854, I'm great. I have had no pain since the surgery, the worst that I had was all within the first week and it was the feeling of scratchiness (if that can be a word) in my throat and a numb tongue.
I went back to work on Monday, I work with around 100 people in a larger heavy talking environment. Works been amazing though they supplied me with an iPad and have really found work for me that doesn't require me to speak.
Anywho enough about me how's things going for you.
I went back to work on Monday, I work with around 100 people in a larger heavy talking environment. Works been amazing though they supplied me with an iPad and have really found work for me that doesn't require me to speak.
Anywho enough about me how's things going for you.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on February 19, 2015, 04:56:07 AM
Post by: ElleA on February 19, 2015, 04:56:07 AM
I also must say to those that are worried about Seoul, I stayed in an Airbnb place in sinsa-dong with my partner. We had an amazing time, she learnt enough korean before we left to order decaf coffee for me and food for both of us. I found no trouble getting around on busses, taxi, or the subway (metro) which was impressive. We managed to do a lot of touring just one day after the surgery onwards.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 05:11:28 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 05:11:28 AM
Hi ElleA,
I had the same feelings post VFS, but no pain at all. However, after the Botox, I started having muscles pain that I never had in my life. it is getting better though. You are lucky to have a job where you can use a note pad. I am a nurse in an emergency room and must talk to patients and healthcare staff. I am due back on 23rh of Feb. I'll keep you posted. If you ever want to contact me via email let me know I'll forward my email to you. Best Wishes Michelle
I had the same feelings post VFS, but no pain at all. However, after the Botox, I started having muscles pain that I never had in my life. it is getting better though. You are lucky to have a job where you can use a note pad. I am a nurse in an emergency room and must talk to patients and healthcare staff. I am due back on 23rh of Feb. I'll keep you posted. If you ever want to contact me via email let me know I'll forward my email to you. Best Wishes Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2015, 06:34:43 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2015, 06:34:43 AM
Hmm - I will have to be back at work about 2.5 weeks post VFS. But I hope I can get by without talking, at that stage it is at least not a problem if i slip up. I am worried much more about tll the things right after VFS - no coughing, not making any sounds for a week and then during the flight back and then another week. Geez. Also that numb tomgue worries me - not everyone seems to have had it, but I am rather sensitive to such stuff, so I definitely will be scared about that once it occurs and worry about it going away again.
Thanks for all the tipps about Phil House and the area. Taking a bus and then a cab from the airport sounds a bit silly if there is a subway. But I will consider it. That way at least I do not have to search Phil House from the subway station.
Thanks for all the tipps about Phil House and the area. Taking a bus and then a cab from the airport sounds a bit silly if there is a subway. But I will consider it. That way at least I do not have to search Phil House from the subway station.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 06:53:26 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 19, 2015, 06:53:26 AM
Hi Anjac,
If you get off at the correct train station then it is just a 3 to 4 minutes walk, even less. You need to change trains also. Bus brings you almost 3/4 way and taking a cab will be ok. This I was suggested by people living there for coming back to USA.
Numbness to tongue is due to kind of heavy equipment resting on the tongue for 30 minutes or so while work is being done to your vocal cord. However, it is temporary and will go away, my numbness is totally gone now. It was very weird feeling though, not scary, Dr. Kim will tell you before surgery about that.
At this stage of post VFS, I would say that I was worried for nothing and I was alone, and I think you shouldn't be worried as well. Best Wishes
If you get off at the correct train station then it is just a 3 to 4 minutes walk, even less. You need to change trains also. Bus brings you almost 3/4 way and taking a cab will be ok. This I was suggested by people living there for coming back to USA.
Numbness to tongue is due to kind of heavy equipment resting on the tongue for 30 minutes or so while work is being done to your vocal cord. However, it is temporary and will go away, my numbness is totally gone now. It was very weird feeling though, not scary, Dr. Kim will tell you before surgery about that.
At this stage of post VFS, I would say that I was worried for nothing and I was alone, and I think you shouldn't be worried as well. Best Wishes
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: seattlesarah on February 19, 2015, 08:36:35 AM
Post by: seattlesarah on February 19, 2015, 08:36:35 AM
For what it's worth Anjaq I didn't have a numb tongue at all.
I can't wait to see how you go with the procedure, you've been here all through the thread asking questions and talking about it, I really want you to have a great result.
3 weeks out now and I still have a scratchy throat. Not painful, just, I'm aware of feeling something. No-one else seems to have said this and I'm a little worried about it. Time goes so slowly waiting for this two month period to blow over.
I can't wait to see how you go with the procedure, you've been here all through the thread asking questions and talking about it, I really want you to have a great result.
3 weeks out now and I still have a scratchy throat. Not painful, just, I'm aware of feeling something. No-one else seems to have said this and I'm a little worried about it. Time goes so slowly waiting for this two month period to blow over.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 19, 2015, 08:38:30 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 19, 2015, 08:38:30 AM
2.5 weeks... hmm. I may have to work out something with my boss to work from home for a few days. I come back the July 4th weekend and then I return to work on that Monday. I don't really talk a lot at my job, except for meetings. I was thinking getting a cute sign like wile e coyote that says "can't talk, doctor's orders" or something lol.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 19, 2015, 10:32:45 AM
Post by: barbie on February 19, 2015, 10:32:45 AM
Quote from: anjaq on February 18, 2015, 02:23:24 PM
Mr Paul from Phil House recommended we take the Bus or train from ICN as the cab supposedly is about 60-70EU (or more as you describe). It involves several transfers though to the subway and I dont know yet how to use the subway. I do bring some physical money with me though, so it should not be an issue to buy a train ticket or bus ticket first and then and subway ticket. I just need to find the Phil house then from the subway station. He said Exit 3, but I have no idea if I will then find it right away or walk into a different direction :P - my mobile wont work with data there either I suppose unless I feind free Wifi spots, so I cannot even use google maps to navigate. But maybe I can print out a small map of the area in advance. I definitely will take the cab to go to the clinic and back I think. it is not far and I dont think it can cost much, can it (it is 15 minutes by cab, Jessie said)? Maybe for the post op examination thats not needed anymore, but on the first day I dont want to miss the time and of course for surgery I want to be relaxed and get an easy ride there and back - I will be soooo stomped after the anaesthesia... and sooo nervous before, so better use a cab then.
Very few people in Seoul use cash to purchase tickets. You have better purchase a pre-paid trasnportation card called " T-money": http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/TR/TR_EN_5_1_4.jsp
You can purchase it at any of convenience store.
You may also ask about city transportation in the information center in the airport.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2015, 11:36:46 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 19, 2015, 11:36:46 AM
Oh, so the subway is prepaid, I would need to get a ticket at the airport then. I checked on google maps and Phil house really is directly at the subway station, it seems, I guess we can then follow their instructions on how to get there but google says it will take 1:40h from ICN to the guest house, that is a long time. I hate it if they put airports that extremely far away
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 19, 2015, 02:26:52 PM
Post by: barbie on February 19, 2015, 02:26:52 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 19, 2015, 11:36:46 AM
Oh, so the subway is prepaid, I would need to get a ticket at the airport then. I checked on google maps and Phil house really is directly at the subway station, it seems, I guess we can then follow their instructions on how to get there but google says it will take 1:40h from ICN to the guest house, that is a long time. I hate it if they put airports that extremely far away
According to the Korean site (map.naver.com), it will take 1h 44m.
Direction:
Walk 264 meters from ICN to Exit #3 of ICN subway station (4 min).
Take the subway and get off at Gongdeok Station ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongdeok_Station ) (55 min while passing 9 stations)
Transit to Line #5 (two ways).
Take the one in the direction to Aeogae or Sangil-dong station .
Get off at Achasan Station (39 min while passing 16 stations)
Go to Exit 3.
Upon exiting the station, turn right in the direction of Kyung Bok Elementary School.
Walk 100 m to arrive at the Phil House on the right (3 min).
Also refer to:
http://www.philhouse.co.kr/04/location01.php
http://asiaenglish.visitkorea.or.kr/ena/SI/SI_EN_3_1_1_1.jsp?cid=1566248
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 19, 2015, 02:44:13 PM
Post by: barbie on February 19, 2015, 02:44:13 PM
Some street view photos from Achasan station to Phil-house:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7317/16396363858_6672ca8ff2_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/16582374131_18df9b1178_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7356/16583592105_c88a06feb4_b.jpg)
barbie~~
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7317/16396363858_6672ca8ff2_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/16582374131_18df9b1178_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7356/16583592105_c88a06feb4_b.jpg)
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 21, 2015, 04:17:52 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 21, 2015, 04:17:52 AM
Oh thank you very much. This will surely help us. We are about to board the plane now.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 21, 2015, 06:26:31 AM
Post by: mk854 on February 21, 2015, 06:26:31 AM
Hi Anjac,
I wish you a safe and successful trip. Please keep in touch.
Michelle
I wish you a safe and successful trip. Please keep in touch.
Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
We arrived some hours ago. The trip was rather horrible, but we found the house and if I would not be jetlagged I might sleep right now.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 22, 2015, 04:31:26 PM
Post by: ReDucks on February 22, 2015, 04:31:26 PM
hope you adjust quickly! Sorry to hear about the trip, isn't flying a pain these days?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 22, 2015, 07:10:12 PM
Post by: barbie on February 22, 2015, 07:10:12 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
We arrived some hours ago. The trip was rather horrible, but we found the house and if I would not be jetlagged I might sleep right now.
But you will be awaken in a few hours.
The severest yellow dust storm in 4 years is hitting the Korean peninsula right now. Even in my hometown (Jeju island), I see dense fog of dust. In Seoul, it is indeed severe and intolerable. You have better stay indoor, and may purchase a mask that can filter micro-dust in a nearby pharmacy, albeit it is not so much effective, but better than without it. The storm comes from the northern Chinese area, is expected to be weaken tomorrow afternoon (Tuesday).
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: HaleyT on February 22, 2015, 10:37:18 PM
Post by: HaleyT on February 22, 2015, 10:37:18 PM
Hi all!
I haven't been online for a while, but since I'm also heading to Seoul, I thought I would say hi to everyone!
I'll be on a plane in about 35 hours, with surgery scheduled for this Friday. Anjaq, maybe we'll run in to each other? Personally, I'm super excited! I can't wait for the surgery and to hear what I'll sound like once I'm all recovered. I'm starting out around 100Hz average, so I've got a long way to go! :)
~Haley
I haven't been online for a while, but since I'm also heading to Seoul, I thought I would say hi to everyone!
I'll be on a plane in about 35 hours, with surgery scheduled for this Friday. Anjaq, maybe we'll run in to each other? Personally, I'm super excited! I can't wait for the surgery and to hear what I'll sound like once I'm all recovered. I'm starting out around 100Hz average, so I've got a long way to go! :)
~Haley
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 11:01:04 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 11:01:04 PM
Great timing about the dust storm. I will have to check where I can get such a mask nearby. I bet some of them are sold and are rip offs which are ineffective, right? I hope I can detect which are really good ones and which not so much. We are indoors today mostly, trying to recover, but even so, I feel some dryness in the throat that is unusual...must be the dust. We are too tired to do sightseeing today anyways. I hope it goes away soon, so that it leaves my poor cold-damaged throat alone in time for the examination and surgery.
The journey was not pleasant. First flight was delayed already, so it was very close to meet the second, that one was mediocre but ok and ended in Bejing, where we had a lot of "fun" with chinese security. Luckily we had 3.5h transit time, because we needed all of that to have every bit of out hand luggage opened, examined, checked, analyzed, returned to us to pack back in the bags and then open the bags again with the same stuff going on until our stuff was all mixed up and partially lost or damaged. We had to undress to the underwear and be checked over again. We had to explain what all the stuff was in our bags - especially all the medication we carried to be sure to have it if the main baggage would get lost and the inhalator I carried to keep my airways hydrated during the return flight. I guess they thought the inhalator was for using illegal drugs and all the medication would be illegal drugs too or something. The connectin "almost-domestic" flight to Seoul was clearly designed for Chinese with the seats so small that we barely could move. At some point (I think it was when the horrible food arrived) we just had to flash.laugh and could not stop because it was just too absurd and we were so tired. ICN airport then was gigantic - one has to walk and walk and take a train and walk and walk some more to get to the baggage claim. And it is about an hour drive by bus from the city.
So I guess my advice, especially for those who have no legal name/gender change or are not post-GRS yet - avoid Bejing at all costs - they seem to not know what international transit is and I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if upon undressing they would have discovered apparent "mismatches" between my appearance, passport name or gender and body configuration. Drug smugglers that use a false identity would probably have been their guess... Crazy people...
Oh and the dry air in the planes was horrible for the throat and nose :(
But we made it, somehow have to make it back with the slight hindrance that upon return travel I canot talk myself out of it again.
So it con only get better now here I guess - tomorrow is the examination and then hopefully a good surgery on Wednesday.
Haley - where will you stay? If you stay at Phil House, we surely will meet. I will be at the clinic probably only on Tuesday, Wednesday and a week later on Wednesday.
The journey was not pleasant. First flight was delayed already, so it was very close to meet the second, that one was mediocre but ok and ended in Bejing, where we had a lot of "fun" with chinese security. Luckily we had 3.5h transit time, because we needed all of that to have every bit of out hand luggage opened, examined, checked, analyzed, returned to us to pack back in the bags and then open the bags again with the same stuff going on until our stuff was all mixed up and partially lost or damaged. We had to undress to the underwear and be checked over again. We had to explain what all the stuff was in our bags - especially all the medication we carried to be sure to have it if the main baggage would get lost and the inhalator I carried to keep my airways hydrated during the return flight. I guess they thought the inhalator was for using illegal drugs and all the medication would be illegal drugs too or something. The connectin "almost-domestic" flight to Seoul was clearly designed for Chinese with the seats so small that we barely could move. At some point (I think it was when the horrible food arrived) we just had to flash.laugh and could not stop because it was just too absurd and we were so tired. ICN airport then was gigantic - one has to walk and walk and take a train and walk and walk some more to get to the baggage claim. And it is about an hour drive by bus from the city.
So I guess my advice, especially for those who have no legal name/gender change or are not post-GRS yet - avoid Bejing at all costs - they seem to not know what international transit is and I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if upon undressing they would have discovered apparent "mismatches" between my appearance, passport name or gender and body configuration. Drug smugglers that use a false identity would probably have been their guess... Crazy people...
Oh and the dry air in the planes was horrible for the throat and nose :(
But we made it, somehow have to make it back with the slight hindrance that upon return travel I canot talk myself out of it again.
So it con only get better now here I guess - tomorrow is the examination and then hopefully a good surgery on Wednesday.
Haley - where will you stay? If you stay at Phil House, we surely will meet. I will be at the clinic probably only on Tuesday, Wednesday and a week later on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on February 22, 2015, 11:20:43 PM
Post by: ElleA on February 22, 2015, 11:20:43 PM
Olive Green is a good place to start for dust mask. They are pretty much everywhere
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: HaleyT on February 22, 2015, 11:48:03 PM
Post by: HaleyT on February 22, 2015, 11:48:03 PM
Anjaq - I'm staying in an AirBnB in Samseong-Dong, and will be at the clinic Thursday/Friday so we probably won't naturally cross paths... maybe if we're both feeling up for it we can find some other way to say hi. :)
~Haley
~Haley
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 12:49:08 AM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 12:49:08 AM
Quote from: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 11:01:04 PM
Great timing about the dust storm. I will have to check where I can get such a mask nearby. I bet some of them are sold and are rip offs which are ineffective, right? I hope I can detect which are really good ones and which not so much. We are indoors today mostly, trying to recover, but even so, I feel some dryness in the throat that is unusual...must be the dust. We are too tired to do sightseeing today anyways. I hope it goes away soon, so that it leaves my poor cold-damaged throat alone in time for the examination and surgery.
There are many kinds of mask, but you may need a special one for protecting from yellow dust. Those masks in Seoul are marked by "KF80" as follows:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jikimimall.com%2Fshopimages%2Fykjikimi%2F044003000009.jpg&hash=dece7e1bf4dbe5039edeb44eecbd47d04abccd63)
Or, they can be labelled as PM10 or PM2.5, which are for filtering out micro-dust.
Yellow dust is mostly natural one, but micro-dust is mostly from pollution. Anyway, both are bad for your health.
Just ago, I purchased a mask labled as PM2.5.
News reports here say that the yellow dust will be weakened tomorrow.
This is the worst one in 5 years.
You may check the level of yellow dust at: http://web.kma.go.kr/eng/weather/asiandust/timeseries.jsp
Usually it should be below 80, which is normal.
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2015/02/22/81/0302000000AEN20150222003700315F.html
Hopefully you will not see another yellow storm during your stay in Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 12:51:54 AM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 12:51:54 AM
Probably you may purchase a nice mask in a nearby convenient store such as "Family Mart".
barbie~~
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 01:01:13 AM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 01:01:13 AM
Quote from: anjaq on February 22, 2015, 11:01:04 PM
So I guess my advice, especially for those who have no legal name/gender change or are not post-GRS yet - avoid Bejing at all costs - they seem to not know what international transit is and I dont even want to imagine what would have happened if upon undressing they would have discovered apparent "mismatches" between my appearance, passport name or gender and body configuration. Drug smugglers that use a false identity would probably have been their guess... Crazy people...
I have never been to China, but if anybody indeed wants to avoid Beijing, there are many direct flights from major cities of Europe (e.g., Frankfurt, Paris) to ICN, albeit the fair should be a little bit more expensive. I heard that Finnair is a nice carrier from Helsinki to ICN, too. Emirates from Dubai to ICN was not so bad, as I remember.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 01:43:07 AM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 01:43:07 AM
Quote from: HaleyT on February 22, 2015, 11:48:03 PM
Anjaq - I'm staying in an AirBnB in Samseong-Dong, and will be at the clinic Thursday/Friday so we probably won't naturally cross paths... maybe if we're both feeling up for it we can find some other way to say hi. :)
~Haley
It will take less than 25 mins by taxi from Phil House to Samseong-Dong or Yeson clinic . The fare will about 10,000 KRW.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 02:02:39 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 02:02:39 AM
Ok, so I guess I bought the wrong mask then. I bought one from a pharmacy, hoping it would be a good one. I will watch out for another one, but if the dust is going away tomorrow maybe I dont need it then and am ok with the less good one just to keep my breath wet.
http://i.imgur.com/gzYTwfe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dZPTXh9.jpg
I guess a direct flight really makes sense, but it was about 150% of the price as the others. I would not want to stop anywhere in the eastern Africa or arabic area either if I still was in a mixed up state with name and appearance. They dont seem to be very fond of transpeople there either. I guess if i had this issue, I would just add the 50% for the direct flight. I guess I should have done so too to avoid stress, but at least they did not send me back or arrest me or anything like that.
Haley, why not - I am not sure how fast I will recover to do sightseeing. But maybe we could have a (silent) look at each other ;) when taking a trip to the Seoul Tower or something? Meeting for a chat would probably not make a whole lot sense :P ;)
http://i.imgur.com/gzYTwfe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dZPTXh9.jpg
I guess a direct flight really makes sense, but it was about 150% of the price as the others. I would not want to stop anywhere in the eastern Africa or arabic area either if I still was in a mixed up state with name and appearance. They dont seem to be very fond of transpeople there either. I guess if i had this issue, I would just add the 50% for the direct flight. I guess I should have done so too to avoid stress, but at least they did not send me back or arrest me or anything like that.
Haley, why not - I am not sure how fast I will recover to do sightseeing. But maybe we could have a (silent) look at each other ;) when taking a trip to the Seoul Tower or something? Meeting for a chat would probably not make a whole lot sense :P ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 02:20:42 AM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 02:20:42 AM
Quote from: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 02:02:39 AM
Ok, so I guess I bought the wrong mask then. I bought one from a pharmacy, hoping it would be a good one. I will watch out for another one, but if the dust is going away tomorrow maybe I dont need it then and am ok with the less good one just to keep my breath wet.
http://i.imgur.com/gzYTwfe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dZPTXh9.jpg
Uh oh. Anjaq, that mask is for warming your face in winter.
If another storm approaches, then you have better purchase a mask for "Yellow Dust".
it is not so much expensive, probably less than 5,000 KRW (US$ 5).
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 04:05:31 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 04:05:31 AM
Good thing we did not go outside much anyways today, so I did not even use the mask yet, but for warming in winter is also good maybe when there is no dust. Silly pharmacy. I asked for a face mask against the dust, but apparently they do not understand english well. I will check for other masks then in the little stores they have here, I did not see any really larger store yet.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 04:35:35 AM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 04:35:35 AM
Quote from: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 04:05:31 AM
Good thing we did not go outside much anyways today, so I did not even use the mask yet, but for warming in winter is also good maybe when there is no dust. Silly pharmacy. I asked for a face mask against the dust, but apparently they do not understand english well. I will check for other masks then in the little stores they have here, I did not see any really larger store yet.
You may show this note in Korean (Hangeul) to the clerk when purchasing a mask for yellow dust.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8680/16436542089_371a60e1bb_b.jpg)
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 09:42:13 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 09:42:13 AM
Ok, we just tried to find food at a reasonable price in the late evening around here and were amazed and shocked at just ho expensive it is here. The only thing that was reasonably affordable was basically soms sort of soup with seafood or meat on a bone in it. It was about 6000 Won, Other foods seem to start at 25000 Won , even a Pizza was 25000-37000 Won at one place we looked at. That is over 25 EU for a meal - I think in the nearest city at home (renowned to be expensive for Germany) I can have about 2-3 meals for that price.
Are we doing something wrong? How to find food at a reasonable price - or where to get raw food to cook for ourselves at a reasonable price at least, so we can maybe just cook pasta in our rental room.
My budget was supposed to be about 1000 EU for the reminder of the hotel costs, food & sightseeing for two people and I was kind of expecting to be able to pay some of the botox bill at yeson with the remainder of the money, I did not really expect to pay 25 EU per Person and day for the main meal :o
Are we doing something wrong? How to find food at a reasonable price - or where to get raw food to cook for ourselves at a reasonable price at least, so we can maybe just cook pasta in our rental room.
My budget was supposed to be about 1000 EU for the reminder of the hotel costs, food & sightseeing for two people and I was kind of expecting to be able to pay some of the botox bill at yeson with the remainder of the money, I did not really expect to pay 25 EU per Person and day for the main meal :o
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on February 23, 2015, 11:18:35 AM
Post by: ReDucks on February 23, 2015, 11:18:35 AM
Anjaq, I went to a grocery store and bought some milk and breakfast cereal and bowls of ramen soup then only paid for food for dinner. The prices where I stayed weren't as high as yours, but perhaps you are going to better restaurants? I avoided anything that looked too fancy.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 23, 2015, 03:20:03 PM
Post by: mk854 on February 23, 2015, 03:20:03 PM
Hi Anjac,
That is true, food was very expensive, even raw food. However, I bought eggs, some vegetables, and fruit, plus a loaf of bread. I made soup with spinach, pasta, potatoes and had for three days. It is just about 3 minutes walk from Phill to go to these stores but you just need to cross that main road by the train station. Phill has map on the wall or ask them. Still I used more money for food there than I budgeted that is why I had to use my credit card for the Botox. Best Wishes Michele
That is true, food was very expensive, even raw food. However, I bought eggs, some vegetables, and fruit, plus a loaf of bread. I made soup with spinach, pasta, potatoes and had for three days. It is just about 3 minutes walk from Phill to go to these stores but you just need to cross that main road by the train station. Phill has map on the wall or ask them. Still I used more money for food there than I budgeted that is why I had to use my credit card for the Botox. Best Wishes Michele
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 03:49:39 PM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 09:42:13 AM
Ok, we just tried to find food at a reasonable price in the late evening around here and were amazed and shocked at just ho expensive it is here. The only thing that was reasonably affordable was basically soms sort of soup with seafood or meat on a bone in it. It was about 6000 Won, Other foods seem to start at 25000 Won , even a Pizza was 25000-37000 Won at one place we looked at. That is over 25 EU for a meal -
Anjaq,
You were attracted to one of the most expensive restaurants in that area. We seldom go to that kind of European-style restaurant, probably once or twice per month. Families and young couples go there during weekend or for some special events.
Korean-style restaurants are far more economic. There are many ultra-cheap, but still reasonably nice restaurants in that area. For example, cross the subway station (Achasan) and go to Exit #1. You will see the restaurant with the red signboard behind "Paris Baguette".
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8644/16440550898_0e182a4929_b.jpg) (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8650/16440719970_7179f6d10b_b.jpg)
You see the photos and prices of the menu. I guess it starts with US$ 1. Most of dishes there are less than US$ 5. And, in most cases, that kind of restaurant opens for 24 hours. And, avoid any red food, if you do not like spicy food.
BTW, a few weeks ago, I went to that kind of European-style restaurant at my hometown with two of my friends. I paid more than US$ 200 with 2 bottles of wine.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 04:00:46 PM
Post by: barbie on February 23, 2015, 04:00:46 PM
If you walk further, you will see another similar restaurant.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8639/16601940546_538d098c91_b.jpg)
It clearly says that it opens for 24 hours. It starts with US$ 1.00 (gimbab: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbap ).
barbie~~
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8639/16601940546_538d098c91_b.jpg)
It clearly says that it opens for 24 hours. It starts with US$ 1.00 (gimbab: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbap ).
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 23, 2015, 04:40:21 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 23, 2015, 04:40:21 PM
For this one I decided not to cheap out on the flight. I got a direct flight from JFK.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ChloëAri on February 24, 2015, 10:50:18 AM
Post by: ChloëAri on February 24, 2015, 10:50:18 AM
I'm sorry if this has already been answered, however there's over 84 pages...
Does this surgery allow one to scream? I know that most people are able to yell, but I lost my true scream at around the age of 10.
I know it's not the most important thing, but it does serve social purposes, such as at the amusement park (instead of a cute scream I have to deal with simply forcing myself to be silent instead of emitting an ugly yell). It also has security purposes, such as attracting attention in the case of being attacked for example.
Does this surgery allow one to scream? I know that most people are able to yell, but I lost my true scream at around the age of 10.
I know it's not the most important thing, but it does serve social purposes, such as at the amusement park (instead of a cute scream I have to deal with simply forcing myself to be silent instead of emitting an ugly yell). It also has security purposes, such as attracting attention in the case of being attacked for example.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on February 24, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Post by: kwala on February 24, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Quote from: ChloëAri on February 24, 2015, 10:50:18 AM
I'm sorry if this has already been answered, however there's over 84 pages...
Does this surgery allow one to scream? I know that most people are able to yell, but I lost my true scream at around the age of 10.
I know it's not the most important thing, but it does serve social purposes, such as at the amusement park (instead of a cute scream I have to deal with simply forcing myself to be silent instead of emitting an ugly yell). It also has security purposes, such as attracting attention in the case of being attacked for example.
I do remember reading (way back) that Jenny was eventually able to get into the whistle register, and if one could get there at a decent volume, then the "roller coaster scream" you talk about would definitely be possible. I don't know if anyone else has been able to access that as of yet, but I suspect that this would be something you would have to practice and maintain, or your muscles would lose the ability...assuming you can get there in the first place :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 24, 2015, 12:39:37 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 24, 2015, 12:39:37 PM
I can still do the "roller coaster scream" I think but I don't do it because I don't want to damage my vocal folds.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on February 24, 2015, 05:42:31 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on February 24, 2015, 05:42:31 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 23, 2015, 09:42:13 AM
Ok, we just tried to find food at a reasonable price in the late evening around here and were amazed and shocked at just ho expensive it is here. The only thing that was reasonably affordable was basically soms sort of soup with seafood or meat on a bone in it. It was about 6000 Won, Other foods seem to start at 25000 Won , even a Pizza was 25000-37000 Won at one place we looked at. That is over 25 EU for a meal - I think in the nearest city at home (renowned to be expensive for Germany) I can have about 2-3 meals for that price.
Are we doing something wrong? How to find food at a reasonable price - or where to get raw food to cook for ourselves at a reasonable price at least, so we can maybe just cook pasta in our rental room.
My budget was supposed to be about 1000 EU for the reminder of the hotel costs, food & sightseeing for two people and I was kind of expecting to be able to pay some of the botox bill at yeson with the remainder of the money, I did not really expect to pay 25 EU per Person and day for the main meal :o
Anja, how are you getting on with communicating? Do you have a translation app on your phone? How about reading menus? If and when I go, I think I'll probably end up losing a lot of weight from not eating much!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on February 24, 2015, 10:28:37 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on February 24, 2015, 10:28:37 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on February 24, 2015, 05:42:31 PM
Anja, how are you getting on with communicating? Do you have a translation app on your phone? How about reading menus? If and when I go, I think I'll probably end up losing a lot of weight from not eating much!
This prompted me to check out my google translate app to see if they improved it. I had stopped using it because the only foreign language I really have to use is Spanish, and I am fluent in that so I don't have to use translate.
But Google Translate has become pretty awesome now. You can translate using the camera to read text, just like word lens, which is a paid app. We ordered chinese food and I had so much fun photographing the menu and receipt which had (simplified) Chinese characters.
So I guess this is how I'm going to work my way around Korea, when dealing with people who don't speak English.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 24, 2015, 11:56:10 PM
Post by: barbie on February 24, 2015, 11:56:10 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on February 24, 2015, 10:28:37 PM
This prompted me to check out my google translate app to see if they improved it. I had stopped using it because the only foreign language I really have to use is Spanish, and I am fluent in that so I don't have to use translate.
But Google Translate has become pretty awesome now. You can translate using the camera to read text, just like word lens, which is a paid app. We ordered chinese food and I had so much fun photographing the menu and receipt which had (simplified) Chinese characters.
So I guess this is how I'm going to work my way around Korea, when dealing with people who don't speak English.
Most Koreans can read English, although they have difficulty in listening and speaking. Thus, just show your note written in English will be enough, and better than inaccurate translation.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 25, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 25, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
Thanks for the restaurant tips. We will check them out. We specifically searched for not European restaurants but it seemed they all either closed at 10pm our did not understand us. Our had only soup. We will try again. I love gimbap and nominal. It was so good at Korean restaurants in Germany.
Communicating is hard. No one really seems to understand English. We made photos of the displays they had outside the restaurants and showed them to the service people. Some did not even have Latin numbers for prices so we avoided these.
Now we have some trouble using the Maestro card to get money. Internet said it should be possible, but so far no luck and I have not much credit left on the MasterCard.
Communicating is hard. No one really seems to understand English. We made photos of the displays they had outside the restaurants and showed them to the service people. Some did not even have Latin numbers for prices so we avoided these.
Now we have some trouble using the Maestro card to get money. Internet said it should be possible, but so far no luck and I have not much credit left on the MasterCard.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 25, 2015, 06:23:58 PM
Post by: barbie on February 25, 2015, 06:23:58 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 25, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
Communicating is hard. No one really seems to understand English. We made photos of the displays they had outside the restaurants and showed them to the service people. Some did not even have Latin numbers for prices so we avoided these.
Now we have some trouble using the Maestro card to get money. Internet said it should be possible, but so far no luck and I have not much credit left on the MasterCard.
Your fingers are the most effective and universal tool for communication. Although I do not speak or read Japanese, I once guided several guys from various countries to a restaurant in Japan. They seemed to think that I am better than them in communicating with Japanese, but the fact is that I am the same in understanding Japanese. I chose a menu item and ordered beer using my fingers.
Credit card is a headache. Yes. When I first used my credit card in foreign countries, it was rejected for payment. Fortunately, nowadays I do not have any problem, as the banks now know that I am a frequent traveler to other countries. Usually I carry more than 2 credit cards, keeping one in the hotel for any emergency.
Remember this Korean word. It is "gimbap".
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8618/16622797886_a77efce9b7_o.png)
A good news is that the air becomes clean in Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 12:45:47 AM
Post by: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 12:45:47 AM
Oh, about the rollercoaster scream.... I hope I will retain that ability. I had it before VFS - I could acream in the 900 Hz range, probably "whistle register", but it is unclear if that is retained. Amy said her whistle register is not accessible anymore, while apparently Jenny found hers again. Maybe it takes time and trying hard... I dont know. I can just hope. Dr Kim reassured me however that since his sutures are thicker and more massive and stable, one can scream and shout after it is all healed.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 26, 2015, 02:46:48 PM
Post by: mk854 on February 26, 2015, 02:46:48 PM
Hi Anjac,
How are you doing post VFS? Best Wishes
How are you doing post VFS? Best Wishes
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on February 26, 2015, 04:26:56 PM
Post by: kwala on February 26, 2015, 04:26:56 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 12:45:47 AM
Oh, about the rollercoaster scream.... I hope I will retain that ability. I had it before VFS - I could acream in the 900 Hz range, probably "whistle register", but it is unclear if that is retained. Amy said her whistle register is not accessible anymore, while apparently Jenny found hers again. Maybe it takes time and trying hard... I dont know. I can just hope. Dr Kim reassured me however that since his sutures are thicker and more massive and stable, one can scream and shout after it is all healed.
Anja, the whistle register is usually thought to start at Eb6, a minor third above the soprano high C which would be 1318.15 hz. I read a post by Jenny where she said her "squeak voice" went all the way up to G6 which is Mariah Carey territory. Most women describe this as a second break, or for a male voice box it would be like if your falsetto had a falsetto lol. This is possible for some males.
900 hz, is about my current limit as well, going just above on really good days. I can sustain notes up there at loud volumes. This is still REALLY high, especially for male vocal cords, but not in the whistle range.
I wouldn't expect to suddenly develop a whistle register after surgery but I would really hate to lose my regular high notes!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 10:13:43 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 10:13:43 PM
Michele - I think I am doing ok. I slipped up a very few times with some small coughs and even stupidly two times said a word in a stupid situation. But I hope to be able to avoid that if I concentrate more. Other than that - the throat feels basically just like having some laryngitis - some sensation of a inflammation or "lump", but not much. Feels too healthy almost ;) - one tends to forget that something there has radically changed. We managed to get cheaper food yesterday, anything remotely western (sandwich bread, sort-of-cheese, ham, sort-of-butter) is expensive, but KFC (Korean style fried chicken :P) was affordable since the prices some restaurants show are actually often for two people sharing a meal that is large enough. I hope to be able to do some sightseeing today. Maybe the N Seoul tower... we still need to find an ATM that accepts MAESTRO though...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 10:16:46 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 10:16:46 PM
Well - that "whistle register" is such a stupid debate - I tried to find out a bit, but it seems everyone has different definitions. I was told if I can go with a "male" voice box to above 700 or 800 Hz, it has to be whistle register already. So I dont know really. I know my screams are probably getting in the 900 Hz range and that is pretty squeaky - I have no idea what to expect post VFS. if it stays, it is ok, my upper limit seems to be unusual for a testosterone damaged voice box, if it goes up, i will be thrilled, I hope it will not go down.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 27, 2015, 12:10:18 AM
Post by: barbie on February 27, 2015, 12:10:18 AM
Quote from: anjaq on February 26, 2015, 10:13:43 PM
we still need to find an ATM that accepts MAESTRO though...
I am looking at http://www.maestrocard.com/gateway/where/where_atm.html (choose 'Korea Republic of' and input 'seoul' in the city name field). It seems to me that "Family mart" has an ATM ("Family bank") for mastro card. Have you checked whether there is an ATM in Mini Family Mart just next to Phil House?
I search again an ATM closer to your location.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on February 27, 2015, 12:59:47 AM
Post by: barbie on February 27, 2015, 12:59:47 AM
Anjaq,
I just called Kookmin bank (KB) to find a branch close to your location. It is KOOKMIN BANK, Guui-dong branch.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8582/16658869071_a7f7d03ce1_b.jpg) (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8657/16040351043_c071a2241a_b.jpg)
It is about 800 m from Phil house, and takes 12 minutes by walking.
If it is difficult to find, you may take taxi and showing the following address.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8606/16659248482_b7358babc9_b.jpg)
barbie~~
I just called Kookmin bank (KB) to find a branch close to your location. It is KOOKMIN BANK, Guui-dong branch.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8582/16658869071_a7f7d03ce1_b.jpg) (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8657/16040351043_c071a2241a_b.jpg)
It is about 800 m from Phil house, and takes 12 minutes by walking.
If it is difficult to find, you may take taxi and showing the following address.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8606/16659248482_b7358babc9_b.jpg)
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on February 27, 2015, 03:35:28 PM
Post by: mk854 on February 27, 2015, 03:35:28 PM
Anjac,
I am glad to hear that you are doing ok. Just a few more days and you'll be back home. I think most of us had cough here and there and forgot no to talk during 1st week. I did that too, not a big deal.
So, did you guys take subway from Incheon to Phill? Michelle
I am glad to hear that you are doing ok. Just a few more days and you'll be back home. I think most of us had cough here and there and forgot no to talk during 1st week. I did that too, not a big deal.
So, did you guys take subway from Incheon to Phill? Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on February 27, 2015, 08:49:13 PM
Post by: anjaq on February 27, 2015, 08:49:13 PM
Thanks barbie. We found out that apparently it is about which bank we have at home. My card worked without any issue at all at some random global ATM we choose, my friend's did not work at any of 6 ATMs we picked.
Michelle - I hope it all is well. I try not to speak more words as hard as I can. We took the bus from ICN to Gunja station and then the subway to Achasan where Phil House is. it was not too bad, but we were soooo tired that it seemed like it takes forever. On the way back we probably take the subway - the one from Achasan goes directly to the Gimpo airport in an hour...
Michelle - I hope it all is well. I try not to speak more words as hard as I can. We took the bus from ICN to Gunja station and then the subway to Achasan where Phil House is. it was not too bad, but we were soooo tired that it seemed like it takes forever. On the way back we probably take the subway - the one from Achasan goes directly to the Gimpo airport in an hour...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on March 01, 2015, 05:27:00 PM
Post by: ElleA on March 01, 2015, 05:27:00 PM
Hi MK854/Michelle,
Have you started talking yet? I am just two days away. I have actually managed to make it through an entire month only saying five words total.
I for one am looking very much forward to talking even if it's only a little.
Have you started talking yet? I am just two days away. I have actually managed to make it through an entire month only saying five words total.
I for one am looking very much forward to talking even if it's only a little.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on March 01, 2015, 06:37:39 PM
Post by: barbie on March 01, 2015, 06:37:39 PM
Another Asian dust storm hit the peninsula, although the intensity is far less than the previous one. But it is still high to be categorized as 'Bad'.
http://web.kma.go.kr/eng/weather/asiandust/timeseries.jsp?area=0&stnId=108&view=1
barbie~~
http://web.kma.go.kr/eng/weather/asiandust/timeseries.jsp?area=0&stnId=108&view=1
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on March 02, 2015, 03:04:14 PM
Post by: mk854 on March 02, 2015, 03:04:14 PM
Hi ElleA,
Yes, I started talking after one month because I cannot work without talking to my patients. I really do not feel any difference in voice than before. How about you? soon you will start talking and please let me know if you feel any difference in your voice than before. I am kind of worried about that. But I remembered Dr. Kim said my voice would be same as before and may be lower after BOTOX and after 4 months I would start noticing change. When I read Sarah and Jenny's account, they said that they noticed change right away. Is it? I am so worried and scared. Best Wishes Michelle
Yes, I started talking after one month because I cannot work without talking to my patients. I really do not feel any difference in voice than before. How about you? soon you will start talking and please let me know if you feel any difference in your voice than before. I am kind of worried about that. But I remembered Dr. Kim said my voice would be same as before and may be lower after BOTOX and after 4 months I would start noticing change. When I read Sarah and Jenny's account, they said that they noticed change right away. Is it? I am so worried and scared. Best Wishes Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 02, 2015, 08:12:13 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 02, 2015, 08:12:13 PM
As I understand it, it varies from person to person. For me he predicted it will increase between month 2 and 4. So I kind of don't even want to try saying any word at all in the first month when three words a day are allowed, because it probably just would sound horrible and low pitched and then I would worry for weeks...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 02, 2015, 10:55:00 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 02, 2015, 10:55:00 PM
I feel like such an old pioneer. When I had my SRS, FFS was hardly common, and VFS hadn't even been tried. So, all I got was the vaginoplasty and some chest silicon. I worked with my voice for years to get it to answer the phone correctly. I notice it slipping down among friends all the time. However, I'm going through a divorce and am screening my calls. I wanted my EX to hear a man's voice if he calls in. So, I pulled out the ole switcheroo. I could not believe the difference between my basso and what my normal slackared voice sound like. If I'm very conscientious, I sound fine and never get stirred. It's just hard to hold that concentration. I'd like to have VFS, but I seem to get by fine without it although I know my register is down from a typical female. It's all in how you speak. I've had many female friends with much lower voices than what I normally use, yet they sound totally feminine. Think Irish inflection. That actually helped me. I thank you all for contributing to this fabulous topic. I'm sorry I missed it as it was happening.
I suppose that for the time, I was very lucky indeed. I am tall, but I learned to pass pretty quickly. I have found this thread so amazing. Had I the money, I'd spring for it. I'd even get a trache shave. Like that's gonna happen ;) No one would recognize me and I'd have much explaining to do. Yes, I do live my life in stealth.
Chin up,
Cindi
I suppose that for the time, I was very lucky indeed. I am tall, but I learned to pass pretty quickly. I have found this thread so amazing. Had I the money, I'd spring for it. I'd even get a trache shave. Like that's gonna happen ;) No one would recognize me and I'd have much explaining to do. Yes, I do live my life in stealth.
Chin up,
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 01:55:32 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 01:55:32 AM
Cindy - I know that feeling :P - I was probably quite a bit later than you, but in 1998 when I was heading for my treatments, all that was available was GRS and Breast surgery and then some doctors did voice surgeries but it was a huge risk and usually sounded not really great, and then there was talk about some doctor in California who can do facial surgery to make the face more feminine (it was Dr O ;) ) - but that was about as exotic as the stories of doctors in South or Middle America doing rib removals to give a more feminine mid-torso shape....
But even though all other surgeries are now 15 years in the past, this one was too tempting ;)
Tomorrow is the followup at Dr Kim by the way and then I already have to head home. Did not see enough of Seoul yet.
Bye
But even though all other surgeries are now 15 years in the past, this one was too tempting ;)
Tomorrow is the followup at Dr Kim by the way and then I already have to head home. Did not see enough of Seoul yet.
Bye
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on March 03, 2015, 02:20:10 AM
Post by: barbie on March 03, 2015, 02:20:10 AM
Quote from: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 01:55:32 AM
Did not see enough of Seoul yet.
You may visit N Seoul Tower to see at least a half of Seoul. It takes about 30 mins from Phil House with a ca. 15,000 KRW taxi fare.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on March 03, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
Post by: ElleA on March 03, 2015, 02:37:46 AM
Hi guys started talking today. After pretty much saying nothing for a month. It's a little tough to talk but my voice is definitely higher. It surprised me as I thought I wouldn't notice any thing for at least another month. Still couldn't be happier being able to talk even a little.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 03:13:51 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 03:13:51 AM
Looking forward to that moment already :P - Stupid text recognition on the cellphone I use to type and show bugs me. It doe snot know all the words I want to use - well it has 3 more weeks to learn ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on March 03, 2015, 04:22:57 AM
Post by: ElleA on March 03, 2015, 04:22:57 AM
Oh there will be plenty of those anjaq. Having to type everything is the most frustrating part.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 04:45:45 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 04:45:45 AM
Yes. I tried to sign some times, but often I cannot get across what I mean
At least I have Swype on my phone so typing is a ton faster. The text to speech engine is not that amazing though, it sounds still artificial a bit. Ah well.... 3 weeks.
At least I have Swype on my phone so typing is a ton faster. The text to speech engine is not that amazing though, it sounds still artificial a bit. Ah well.... 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 03, 2015, 12:05:09 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 03, 2015, 12:05:09 PM
You know, I went to bed thinking about this last night. I get by fine when I'm thinking about it but wouldn't it be great if I never had to think about controlling my voice ever again? I wish I weren't in the middle of a divorce. I'd probably sign up.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 03, 2015, 09:46:10 PM
Yes. Same thoughts on my side. Not wanting to think about it again. It keeps reminding me in all situations tha tI am different and I want at least some of the time to just forget ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on March 04, 2015, 04:38:18 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on March 04, 2015, 04:38:18 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 03, 2015, 12:05:09 PMI'm in the exact same position as you Cindi. No-one ever questions my voice or even looks at me oddly as the pitch is female. However, I notice it isn't truly female as I control my voice, and even though it's now automatic, I don't think it sounds like other women. Then I would love to be able to sing, shout and sneeze and not worry what it might sound like. I'm no spring chicken, and am not sure of the benefit/risk ratio at my age. I am also a teacher and worry about taking risks with my livelyhood.
You know, I went to bed thinking about this last night. I get by fine when I'm thinking about it but wouldn't it be great if I never had to think about controlling my voice ever again? I wish I weren't in the middle of a divorce. I'd probably sign up.
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 04, 2015, 07:56:33 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 04, 2015, 07:56:33 PM
I can naturally move my voice up a full octave but the thing that made me sound female was altering the way I talked. Inflections are very different between men and women. I used to practice with a phone answering machine to get mine to sound right. People have noted that I normally speak a bit lower, VS how I sound on the phone (I am perfect on the phone because I'm thinking about it) but I always get the inflections correct.
I recorded my natural voice two days ago to change my answering machine announcement and I was really quite amazed that I used to speak like that all the time.
I recorded my natural voice two days ago to change my answering machine announcement and I was really quite amazed that I used to speak like that all the time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on March 04, 2015, 09:38:23 PM
Post by: divineintervention on March 04, 2015, 09:38:23 PM
Quote from: voodle on February 13, 2015, 08:19:31 PM
:D Here's nearly 2 years on (may 13 > feb 15), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_4opu2R_1g Also I saw a speech therapist and now it sounds possibly even better? Sort of
I just watched this - you sound and look amazing!! Don't see how you can be depressed...
this is like 300% pass for me lol
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: divineintervention on March 04, 2015, 09:42:14 PM
Post by: divineintervention on March 04, 2015, 09:42:14 PM
Quote from: AmyBerlin on December 28, 2014, 04:38:25 PM
Dear divineintervention,
I'm a professional musician (mostly piano/guitar) and had the Yeson surgery 8 months ago. My preconditions were far from ideal in that I had (for somebody who'd gone through male puberty) extremely short (about the size of an alto's), but thick vocal cords. I was a baritone before, with about Eb2-F4 chest voice, F4-C5 falsetto, C5-G#5 whistle.
Because of the shortened vocal cords, I have now about soprano vocal cord length, but due to the thickness, I have alto range. Chest voice starts from a C3, with full volume available from Eb3, that transitions smoothly into head voice at around G4. That's about the most important change: chest and head voice blend seamlessly now. If needed, I can belt chest voice up to B4. Head voice ends at around G5, and E5-G5 require sufficient support and quite some volume. I haven't been able to use whistle voice post-surgery (yet). Maybe I haven't found it yet, who knows.
I have been singing choir alto parts post-surgery no problem and am in the process of recording some of my own tunes. I can keep you posted on how that goes.
Regards,
Amy
Hi Amy,
just a short clip of singing would delightful!
Thank you so much as one of the main reasons I am getting the surgery is to be able to sing female songs without feeling embarrassed.
Thanks
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 09, 2015, 09:00:19 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 09, 2015, 09:00:19 PM
Dang, even the low voice in the hoodie vid sounds fabulous. However, notice how she carries herself and the hand gestures. People pick up on those cues. She is totally and unquestionably feminine, no matter how she speaks.
Cindi
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 10, 2015, 01:54:56 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 10, 2015, 01:54:56 AM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 09, 2015, 09:00:19 PM
Dang, even the low voice in the hoodie vid sounds fabulous.
Which video are you talking about? Jamie's, I presume? Indeed - I found it fascinating that the "I try a boy voice now" seems to just not really work anymore with some. Its good for amusement only ;) - Like any woman trying to do a boy voice - sounds fake. This is very cool... :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 10, 2015, 04:18:06 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 10, 2015, 04:18:06 PM
What's the going price on this and how long does it take to schedule?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 10, 2015, 08:22:57 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 10, 2015, 08:22:57 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 10, 2015, 04:18:06 PM
What's the going price on this and how long does it take to schedule?
It's about 7500USD plus the botox and they're booked solid 4 months or so out. Figure about 10k if you include travel and lodging expense.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 10, 2015, 08:26:25 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 10, 2015, 08:26:25 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 09, 2015, 09:00:19 PM
Dang, even the low voice in the hoodie vid sounds fabulous. However, notice how she carries herself and the hand gestures. People pick up on those cues. She is totally and unquestionably feminine, no matter how she speaks.
Cindi
They do pick up on cues but these cues are not visible on the phone (or in my case, podcasts I make guest appearances on). Honestly I think the hand gestures are a minor part of it. The pitch is a big part of it, with resonance being second and prosody (sing songy voice) being third.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 10, 2015, 10:08:23 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 10, 2015, 10:08:23 PM
I've used the sing song voice as you call it. I tend to think of it as speaking in my own version of an Irish accent. I tend to lift the end of each sentence as if it were a question. There's enough difference just in that to get me by perfectly. It's just when I'm among friends and I forget. Still, even at that, my voice is more like a young teen. I recorded a new message on my answering machine with my original voice. I'm going through a divorce and don't want anyone to think that I'm alone. My mother called today and I picked up after she started to record her message. She asked, "Who's that man?" I told her it was my real voice and she WOULD NOT believe me until I gave her a sentence in the old me and it blew her away. But here's the thing. I would love to sing again and even with limited ability and range, something would be better than what I have now. 10K might be doable. That would leave me mighty short on savings (as in nothing) in case I needed it. Dang, I want to do this, even at my age where it shouldn't make one bit of difference.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 11, 2015, 05:42:07 AM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 11, 2015, 05:42:07 AM
How far in advance is payment made and how is it made? Do they accept plastic on the spot or must they receive a money order months in advance? If I could put the surgery into winter of 2016 and pay for it in that year, that would provide a significant tax break for me. It wouldn't help me at all this year.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on March 11, 2015, 05:49:40 AM
Post by: ElleA on March 11, 2015, 05:49:40 AM
It's all on the day of your first consultation. They take cash, card, or bank transfer.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 11, 2015, 05:51:15 AM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 11, 2015, 05:51:15 AM
Thanks Ella! That sounds terrific. I could do it in January. Is there anyone following this thread who has not had a positive experience with this procedure?
Cindi
Cindi
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 07:27:43 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 07:27:43 AM
Cindi, you should email Jessie at english@yesonvc.net and do the preop checklist and stuff. They will ask for a voice recording as well. In my case I have chronic medical conditions (diabetes type 2) so I had to know. They said it was fine as long as it is controlled (I am).
They take credit cards but I'm worried about the card being declined and I would have to call my card issuer. I use mostly Amex and I'm not even sure they accept that in Korea (maybe they do but visa/mc seems to be the standard). I have a Visa card but the limit is only like $5k (on purpose). That's an option though. Your bank may charge a foreign transaction fee as well.
Wire transfer is good but there is an extra fee. However I think it is the most fool proof method. You need to wire 5 weeks in advance.
Cash is iffy. I don't want to have a billion questions at US and Korean customs or get the money seized or lost or whatever.
As for negative experiences the only ones we've seen so far are those who have complained about not enough pitch increase. But they either had well trained voices before or their pitch is fine and they wanted more. Nobody has really had any complications or lost their voice or had their voice sounding odd like Mickey Mouse or anything which is quite remarkable.
They take credit cards but I'm worried about the card being declined and I would have to call my card issuer. I use mostly Amex and I'm not even sure they accept that in Korea (maybe they do but visa/mc seems to be the standard). I have a Visa card but the limit is only like $5k (on purpose). That's an option though. Your bank may charge a foreign transaction fee as well.
Wire transfer is good but there is an extra fee. However I think it is the most fool proof method. You need to wire 5 weeks in advance.
Cash is iffy. I don't want to have a billion questions at US and Korean customs or get the money seized or lost or whatever.
As for negative experiences the only ones we've seen so far are those who have complained about not enough pitch increase. But they either had well trained voices before or their pitch is fine and they wanted more. Nobody has really had any complications or lost their voice or had their voice sounding odd like Mickey Mouse or anything which is quite remarkable.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 11, 2015, 07:38:33 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 11, 2015, 07:38:33 AM
I wired the money as I thought it is the safest way even if there is a fee for it. I think it was about $20-40 or something? But I did not trust my credit card to work flawlessly with that big sums and My credit marign is not that high either, I would have had to somehow prepare all of this very well, so I took an easier way by simply wire transfer it. Plus I had a better EU/USD exchange rate at that time than I would have had at the date of surgery ;), with the EU still plunging down.
I did pay for the Botox with Mastercard though and it was accepted, also I could just get some cash from my Maestro Checking Account at "global ATM" machines with my PIN, it was a much better exchange rate than actually changing real currency (but about $400 max. withdrawal). However with my friends Maestro card , she could not get any money from an ATM, so I would really call the bank and check how this works before you go. Apparently the bank has to have a contract with Korean banks for it to work. Mastercard seems to do fine in all cases so far though, but you probably need a PIN and a chip on the card for it to work flawlessly also for getting money at an ATM. At Yeson I just had to sign, no PIN needed.
I did pay for the Botox with Mastercard though and it was accepted, also I could just get some cash from my Maestro Checking Account at "global ATM" machines with my PIN, it was a much better exchange rate than actually changing real currency (but about $400 max. withdrawal). However with my friends Maestro card , she could not get any money from an ATM, so I would really call the bank and check how this works before you go. Apparently the bank has to have a contract with Korean banks for it to work. Mastercard seems to do fine in all cases so far though, but you probably need a PIN and a chip on the card for it to work flawlessly also for getting money at an ATM. At Yeson I just had to sign, no PIN needed.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 07:51:42 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 07:51:42 AM
The fee is $40 plus any fees from your bank which is separate.
Also you need to wire 3-4 weeks in advance not 5 as I stated previously.
Also you need to wire 3-4 weeks in advance not 5 as I stated previously.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on March 11, 2015, 12:31:47 PM
Post by: barbie on March 11, 2015, 12:31:47 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on March 11, 2015, 07:27:43 AM
I use mostly Amex and I'm not even sure they accept that in Korea (maybe they do but visa/mc seems to be the standard).
About 10 years, I frequently used Amex in Korea. It is not so much popular as Visa or Master, but anyway is a standard credit card here.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 12, 2015, 08:41:30 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 12, 2015, 08:41:30 AM
Quote from: barbie on March 11, 2015, 12:31:47 PM
About 10 years, I frequently used Amex in Korea. It is not so much popular as Visa or Master, but anyway is a standard credit card here.
barbie~~
Very good to know, thanks. I'll still have a visa card with me but it would be nice to use my amex since I get rewards and points better than the visa.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 12, 2015, 09:28:34 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 12, 2015, 09:28:34 PM
When I know I'll have a big expense, I call my Visa company and tell them what it is, about how much it will be, and when. With that information, I've never had problems. But it would be wise to check about the international ramifications.
Do you convert some US cash into local currency at the airport? About what do cab fares run? And thanks ImagineKate for the referral. I'll check that out.
Cindi
Do you convert some US cash into local currency at the airport? About what do cab fares run? And thanks ImagineKate for the referral. I'll check that out.
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 13, 2015, 08:55:26 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 13, 2015, 08:55:26 AM
I carried some cash with me, just in case, but it was no issue with my card (others did have issues with Maestro cards) to just use a "global ATM" and get cash. There is a transportation card, you can load money on it and then use it for taxi, subway and bus. Taxi fares seem to be about 10000KRW for a 20-25 min ride - varies by traffic and distance and time, I guess. Phil House to the Clinic was always around 10-15k KRW, so about 8-12 EU (should be the same in USD). From the airport it is expensive though. We took a bus from the airport, there are several, and then the subway, on the return we left at Gimpo airport, the subway goes directly into the airport station. I think Yeson can organize a pickup at the airport if you arrive during opening hours and have a hotel near Yeson.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 13, 2015, 12:58:10 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 13, 2015, 12:58:10 PM
Which airport did you fly in to? And is there a decent hotel very close to the hospital? This is a big deal so I won't necessarily penny pinch. Convenience is key to me when I'm in a new city. Do they accept American dollars or is that illegal?
I did send an email to the clinic yesterday. No response yet. i suppose I'm just too anxious. Plus I'm going through a divorce which makes this an infinitely wonderful diversion from THAT.
Cindi
I did send an email to the clinic yesterday. No response yet. i suppose I'm just too anxious. Plus I'm going through a divorce which makes this an infinitely wonderful diversion from THAT.
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on March 13, 2015, 02:50:02 PM
Post by: barbie on March 13, 2015, 02:50:02 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 13, 2015, 12:58:10 PM
Which airport did you fly in to? And is there a decent hotel very close to the hospital? This is a big deal so I won't necessarily penny pinch. Convenience is key to me when I'm in a new city. Do they accept American dollars or is that illegal?
I did send an email to the clinic yesterday. No response yet. i suppose I'm just too anxious. Plus I'm going through a divorce which makes this an infinitely wonderful diversion from THAT.
Cindi
Typically, it is Incheon airport. Gimpo airport is old one and mostly for domestic flights, except some short-distance flights to Japan or China.
There are many nice hotels, but remember that Seoul is a very expensive city like NYC and Tokyo.
It is not illegal, but most stores do not accept dollars.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 13, 2015, 03:08:20 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 13, 2015, 03:08:20 PM
Yeson Center accepts USD, but other stores will usually accept credit card, even small stores, or korean currency. We had a flight arrival at Incheaon airport, which is a bit far from the city, about an 1 1/2 drive with the Bus and went out with a departure at Gimpo. But usually it is Incheon unless you have a stop in Japan or China (we had one in Bejing). Jessie from Yeson can tell you recommended Hotels close to the Clinic. But you will be at the clinic only 3 times, so it is not really that much of an issue if you choose a different hotel that is not in Gangnam of all expensive places ;) - And only one of the three times it is needed to take a taxi, that is the day of surgery. Other than that, the subway is your friend, faster and cheaper than taxi. Seriously, we took more time with the taxi to Yeson from our room than with the subway because traffic in the rush hours is insane.
When writing to them, keep in mind that there is a time difference and they may read the email a day later and then you read the reply another day later, if they replied instantly. If she does not reply within a week, I would just try again, usually I always had a reply within a few days unless I asked something where she had to ask Dr Kim himself, then it took much longer at times as it depended on when he had time for email consultations.
When writing to them, keep in mind that there is a time difference and they may read the email a day later and then you read the reply another day later, if they replied instantly. If she does not reply within a week, I would just try again, usually I always had a reply within a few days unless I asked something where she had to ask Dr Kim himself, then it took much longer at times as it depended on when he had time for email consultations.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 13, 2015, 03:25:12 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 13, 2015, 03:25:12 PM
Remember as well that they are a day ahead so it is already the weekend there. Don't expect a reply until at minimum Sunday afternoon (Eastern US time) and probably Monday.
Jessie has been good at replying to emails though but they are swamped so you may have to be a little patient.
Jessie has been good at replying to emails though but they are swamped so you may have to be a little patient.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 14, 2015, 07:05:48 AM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 14, 2015, 07:05:48 AM
Yeah, what happened with my email was it couldn't be delivered. Perhaps their server is down. I've been watching a lot of youtube videos of other women who have gone there. I CAN speak in a very feminine way in a high register. In all the videos I saw I did not detect any real difference in the top range that they could reach. Rather, the lower timber and resonance was significantly reduced.
Does the procedure actually give you the capacity to go higher than before or just force you to speak in the higher range? Does that make sense? If I end up with my own "higher feminine" that I can already do, I'm having some doubts. Yes, it would be so nice not to have to worry about it. But I did want to actually sing female parts (which can be done electronically) and I would like to get rid of the bass resonance. But I have absolutely no problems passing. I don't know. I'm at a juncture in my life and I want to do something for ME.
I did the change on the cheap way back when. I didn't get the trace shave, no surgery on my face, I only got the first stage of a two step procedure by Dr. Biber.... and believe me, men don't give an orange. The second step was to just make it "pretty" and I skipped that too. I'm not feeling down or anything, I just was sort of looking forward to this and perhaps it might not be a good choice for me.
Cindi
Does the procedure actually give you the capacity to go higher than before or just force you to speak in the higher range? Does that make sense? If I end up with my own "higher feminine" that I can already do, I'm having some doubts. Yes, it would be so nice not to have to worry about it. But I did want to actually sing female parts (which can be done electronically) and I would like to get rid of the bass resonance. But I have absolutely no problems passing. I don't know. I'm at a juncture in my life and I want to do something for ME.
I did the change on the cheap way back when. I didn't get the trace shave, no surgery on my face, I only got the first stage of a two step procedure by Dr. Biber.... and believe me, men don't give an orange. The second step was to just make it "pretty" and I skipped that too. I'm not feeling down or anything, I just was sort of looking forward to this and perhaps it might not be a good choice for me.
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 14, 2015, 12:18:43 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 14, 2015, 12:18:43 PM
It certainly seems like it can help you go higher. Not exactly sure how. However Jenny has said she could have gone high but it is somewhat reduced now. I am guessing since your muscles don't have to worry about the lower range they can squeeze the upper ranges. But I'm not a voice surgeon so I don't know.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 14, 2015, 04:34:21 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 14, 2015, 04:34:21 PM
I would not count on being able to increase the topmost range. I have my doubts that it will do much there. But I think it probably will make it easier to access some of the higher notes and also would eliminate some of the low resonance and timbre. It also makes it easier to not drop too low while speaking. This was my main motivation as it was for several others - that the voice is at the otherwiese "trained pitch" without having to use strain or give t hought about it and that it cannot drop low down anymore by accident plus that it is hopefully easier to use some higher notes. I dont think I will go beyond my pre op 950 Hz, I expect rather that it may be reduced a bit, if it goes higher and I can hit the high C, I will be amazed ;) - But I think I would be happy if I can use the normal female range and not be scared of bad timbre anymore and to speak relaxed. If that works, I am happy already.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Agdistis on March 18, 2015, 05:39:06 AM
Post by: Agdistis on March 18, 2015, 05:39:06 AM
I just had Voice Surgery at Yeson today, it went super well!
I had some asymmetry and issues with my vocal chords apparently (which explains alot actually, I probably injured them a bit when I was in the army, lots of rough living, yelling until I lost my voice and injuries). But it should be all good now, and shorter, yay! It might take a little longer for healing to take Dr. Kim said, he was so professional! My Mom came with me, and she was worried until Dr. Kim explained the procedure, the risks, what to do if anything happens after surgery, etc.
I'm so glad I got this done, I had facial surgery last year and this was has been WAY easier for me to handle than that (but I will have a month of no talking to deal with, so it might end up being harder in some ways).
Thanks for posting so much in this thread everyone, it really helped me make up my mind and plan for things!
I had some asymmetry and issues with my vocal chords apparently (which explains alot actually, I probably injured them a bit when I was in the army, lots of rough living, yelling until I lost my voice and injuries). But it should be all good now, and shorter, yay! It might take a little longer for healing to take Dr. Kim said, he was so professional! My Mom came with me, and she was worried until Dr. Kim explained the procedure, the risks, what to do if anything happens after surgery, etc.
I'm so glad I got this done, I had facial surgery last year and this was has been WAY easier for me to handle than that (but I will have a month of no talking to deal with, so it might end up being harder in some ways).
Thanks for posting so much in this thread everyone, it really helped me make up my mind and plan for things!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 06:10:10 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 06:10:10 AM
Hey - so you can meet another international patient who was there today for consultation :)
It is amazing how many people have asymmetry and of course almost everyone has that minor "focal laryngal dystonia" or "spasmodic dysphonia" - the "vocal tremor" as Dr Kim calls it and which is why he uses the Botox in almost everyone. I think I know only one or two now who did not need Botox and only 2-3 who did not have some asymmetry or incomplete glottal closure or therelike. Apparently we all misused our voices, maybe from forcing it low to convince others that we are not queer before we came out, or from trying too much of the wrong things to speak in a way that is perceived more feminine after that point in time.
Anyways - Congratulations on that. I hope you did not get too much of the usual annoyances - stiff neck, mandibular pain or numb tongue - but those are really minor compared to something like FFS and often they dont even occure - my tongue was fine and my neck pain was ok after some Diclofenac and a good rest.
Not speaking really is annoying. The first 2 weeks are bearable and in some way the excitement about having done the surgery makes it even fun in a way. But after that time it is really annoying, when daily life hits again at home and work. I look very much forward to get rid of that restriction in about a week (although I am still unsure if the counter starts at the Botox injection or at the surgery) and cannot wait to try out my voice a bit to see how it feels and sounds. Although I know the major effects will take some more time.
How long did he predict for your healing period?
It is amazing how many people have asymmetry and of course almost everyone has that minor "focal laryngal dystonia" or "spasmodic dysphonia" - the "vocal tremor" as Dr Kim calls it and which is why he uses the Botox in almost everyone. I think I know only one or two now who did not need Botox and only 2-3 who did not have some asymmetry or incomplete glottal closure or therelike. Apparently we all misused our voices, maybe from forcing it low to convince others that we are not queer before we came out, or from trying too much of the wrong things to speak in a way that is perceived more feminine after that point in time.
Anyways - Congratulations on that. I hope you did not get too much of the usual annoyances - stiff neck, mandibular pain or numb tongue - but those are really minor compared to something like FFS and often they dont even occure - my tongue was fine and my neck pain was ok after some Diclofenac and a good rest.
Not speaking really is annoying. The first 2 weeks are bearable and in some way the excitement about having done the surgery makes it even fun in a way. But after that time it is really annoying, when daily life hits again at home and work. I look very much forward to get rid of that restriction in about a week (although I am still unsure if the counter starts at the Botox injection or at the surgery) and cannot wait to try out my voice a bit to see how it feels and sounds. Although I know the major effects will take some more time.
How long did he predict for your healing period?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Agdistis on March 18, 2015, 06:46:39 AM
Post by: Agdistis on March 18, 2015, 06:46:39 AM
Hey!
Dr Kim said somewhere between 2 and 4 months would be when most of the healing would be done, with probably around 4 months my voice reaching most of its frequency increase. I'll be seeing a speech pathologist back home after the healing is done completely, to help retrain my voice properly with my new vocal chords and avoid the stuff I used to do to compensate for speech problems.
Dr Kim said somewhere between 2 and 4 months would be when most of the healing would be done, with probably around 4 months my voice reaching most of its frequency increase. I'll be seeing a speech pathologist back home after the healing is done completely, to help retrain my voice properly with my new vocal chords and avoid the stuff I used to do to compensate for speech problems.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 07:07:41 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 07:07:41 AM
I am the same then - 2-4 months. At least he did not predict more. 2-4 month is pretty ok, if it works. But of course I hope for the 2 months or less ;) - some were told the same and had big changes after 6 weeks already. I already am making appointments for speech therapy for the 2 month mark - she knows me from before, so she really wants to know how it will be. She usually opposes surgery, but in my case she was actually thinking it will help
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 12:23:55 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 12:23:55 PM
I've been playing around with voice recordings and although I can do a pretty good job of getting "up there," it puts a strain on my voice and I can't maintain it. As soon as I get my passport, I'm scheduling. I've been looking at flights and it's almost impossible for me to get in before 3PM to catch their shuttle. Are there busses or other inexpensive ways to get to the hotel they suggest? Also, since the only other language I speak is Spanish, what sort of issues will I run into with the language barrier in general? Like if I want to go out and see the sites?
I'm staying wherever they recommend. This is a very special event for me and if it costs an extra thousand. I could care less. I haven't been able to do things for myself for way too many years. I've spent it all on a man for his Harley's (he got into that just 6 years ago) and he left me for a biker chic. I've been talking to my therapist and she says go for it. She's really happy to see me looking forward to something so positive.
I'm staying wherever they recommend. This is a very special event for me and if it costs an extra thousand. I could care less. I haven't been able to do things for myself for way too many years. I've spent it all on a man for his Harley's (he got into that just 6 years ago) and he left me for a biker chic. I've been talking to my therapist and she says go for it. She's really happy to see me looking forward to something so positive.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 18, 2015, 01:01:04 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 18, 2015, 01:01:04 PM
I thought the subway was available (cheaper than a cab) plus some people spoke English. I have that issue as well (language barrier).
To be honest the surgery is exciting but I'm also just excited about going somewhere far away. Haven't done that in a while.
To be honest the surgery is exciting but I'm also just excited about going somewhere far away. Haven't done that in a while.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: jessical on March 18, 2015, 01:17:34 PM
Post by: jessical on March 18, 2015, 01:17:34 PM
Can Dr. Kim do a trachea shave at the same time? Reading through the thread had some conflicting information about that.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 01:36:40 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: jessical on March 18, 2015, 01:17:34 PM
Can Dr. Kim do a trachea shave at the same time? Reading through the thread had some conflicting information about that.
Mine is fairly pronounced and I thought that it would be nice to get taken care of too, but you know what? I have never had an issue with that. No one has ever mentioned it nor have I heard any gossip. I have however been asked by my friends about my voice... friendly banter about "my unusual birth defect I mentioned once." Nothing about Adam. I too want the trip to be exciting just for the adventure. It doesn't sound like I'll be miserable while I'm there. What a wonderful thing to look forward to!
I might fly into San Jose and stay with a friend for a couple of days and then catch a direct flight out of San Francisco to get an arrival time to catch their bus. That will cut down the time in the air considerably as well. And getting a chance to see my best friend for a day or two is a very nice thing indeed!
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on March 18, 2015, 02:23:12 PM
Post by: Wynternight on March 18, 2015, 02:23:12 PM
Kim will do the shave and Yeson procedure at the same time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 02:33:15 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 02:33:15 PM
Quote from: Wynternight on March 18, 2015, 02:23:12 PM
Kim will do the shave and Yeson procedure at the same time.
Do you know how much extra that is? Dang, now I'm thinking of that too! It's like shopping for heels!
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on March 18, 2015, 03:07:17 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on March 18, 2015, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 02:33:15 PM
Do you know how much extra that is? Dang, now I'm thinking of that too! It's like shopping for heels!
Cindi
Email Jessie and find out. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 03:37:40 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 03:37:40 PM
Indeed, I would ask Jessie (and Dr Kim through her) about the combination. They can do it, but he does not like to do it if it can be avoided as a trach shave is not so great for the voice procedure. Part of the voice surgery is that the vocal folds ate a bit tightened by the formation of the scars, that puts a bit of a strain on the cartilage and if that is weakened by a trach shave it could diminish the gain from the voice procedure.
The best way to get from the airport to the city is either take the subway/train, it goes directly into the airport. Or take an airport bus which drops you off in the city, there are several routes, I dont know which one will have stops close to the hotel, best to ask the hotel which is the best way to get to them.
Choose whatever hotel suits you. Yeson recommend one based mainly because it is rather ok (people have said it is not great but also not bad), not insanely expensive and most importantly it is like 10 minutes from the clinic by foot. I would go for what you feel is most important for you - being close to the clinic in gangnam, or find a hotel that has better accomodation or is in an area that you like more - seriously getting around in Seoul is not hard - either take a subway or a taxi which is not too expensive.
Language - well you cannot speak anyways after the surgery ;) - Jessie will give you some pieces of paper with important sentences in english and korean on it, and some people will be able to read english - apparently they can read it better than listening to it anyways, which is convenient for a temporary mute. So either get a notebook or a smartphone and type-and-show in english and in many places it will work out. Hotels will have english speaking receptionists if they are decent. In restaurants you can also just point - or take a photo of the food from their menu and then show it to them. I still do that since - well - you still ar ein the same situation when you get home and cannot talk and order food, so I still do photos and show them... still I think it can help to bring someone, just in case something happens that is too complicated to solve by these means. But I think it can be managed well without a company. Make sure that the hotel air conditioning is not bothering you - you dont want a dry throat or signs of a cold at any time.
The best way to get from the airport to the city is either take the subway/train, it goes directly into the airport. Or take an airport bus which drops you off in the city, there are several routes, I dont know which one will have stops close to the hotel, best to ask the hotel which is the best way to get to them.
Choose whatever hotel suits you. Yeson recommend one based mainly because it is rather ok (people have said it is not great but also not bad), not insanely expensive and most importantly it is like 10 minutes from the clinic by foot. I would go for what you feel is most important for you - being close to the clinic in gangnam, or find a hotel that has better accomodation or is in an area that you like more - seriously getting around in Seoul is not hard - either take a subway or a taxi which is not too expensive.
Language - well you cannot speak anyways after the surgery ;) - Jessie will give you some pieces of paper with important sentences in english and korean on it, and some people will be able to read english - apparently they can read it better than listening to it anyways, which is convenient for a temporary mute. So either get a notebook or a smartphone and type-and-show in english and in many places it will work out. Hotels will have english speaking receptionists if they are decent. In restaurants you can also just point - or take a photo of the food from their menu and then show it to them. I still do that since - well - you still ar ein the same situation when you get home and cannot talk and order food, so I still do photos and show them... still I think it can help to bring someone, just in case something happens that is too complicated to solve by these means. But I think it can be managed well without a company. Make sure that the hotel air conditioning is not bothering you - you dont want a dry throat or signs of a cold at any time.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 05:02:46 PM
Post by: Cindi Jones on March 18, 2015, 05:02:46 PM
Thank you Anjaq. If the subway goes to the airport that is definitely the way to go. I could get into the city close by and take a taxi. I did notice in the papers I got, they mention a less expensive hotel very near the clinic and they are pretty straight up about what it's like there. They recommend another nicer hotel that runs $150 a night which almost makes me choke, but i'll probably do that. For me, part of traveling is relaxing in a somewhat nice room. I like Marriot and Hyat. That level. I don't have a lot of money for this sort of thing right now, my life is up in the air as far as my financial situation goes... but hey, when I transitioned it was even worse and I have NEVER regretted that decision.
I do have the cash for this and if I put it off, I'll just regret it. I'm not getting any younger. I am going to wait until my passport arrives however. I just applied for it a few days ago. My mother has held four or five versions of her name during her lifetime and her "new" actually her original name is not the same name as on my amended birth certificate. Additionally, when I changed my name, I did not take the family surname. So I'm sure the passport people are going to have to sort all that out and it could take some time. Sadly, it's possible they can't. It would be easy to call the records office in Salt Lake City if they have a little ambition. The records office there is top notch and answer all questions very quickly. So, I think I'll wait and see.
Thanks again for all the answers. And yes, just like every other surgery I've had in transition, I'm going alone. Why break a running streak?
Cindi
I do have the cash for this and if I put it off, I'll just regret it. I'm not getting any younger. I am going to wait until my passport arrives however. I just applied for it a few days ago. My mother has held four or five versions of her name during her lifetime and her "new" actually her original name is not the same name as on my amended birth certificate. Additionally, when I changed my name, I did not take the family surname. So I'm sure the passport people are going to have to sort all that out and it could take some time. Sadly, it's possible they can't. It would be easy to call the records office in Salt Lake City if they have a little ambition. The records office there is top notch and answer all questions very quickly. So, I think I'll wait and see.
Thanks again for all the answers. And yes, just like every other surgery I've had in transition, I'm going alone. Why break a running streak?
Cindi
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 05:50:09 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 05:50:09 PM
Well its not really the subway but some sort of train that connects to the subway system:
http://www.exploringkorea.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Subwaymap_Eng.jpg
the "airport rail" goes directly to the subway net. Yeson is at the orange #3 subway Apgujeong Station.
A good choice is to go to the city with the rail or bus and then take a taxi. But make sure to print out the adress in korean , the taxi dirvers often cannot read or speak english! We wanted to do that - use the express bus and then take a taxi, but we could not get a taxi that could read the english printout of the website of the place we stayed, so we ended up using the subway after all.
And of course - if you have the cash, take the nice hotel and direct flight - it makes things more relaxed and nice. i could not afford it so I went for Phil House and a cheap Air China flight which was quite a trip. But I maxed out my credit as it is for the surgery and the travel, so not much room for spending money on a bigger room with room service ;)
http://www.exploringkorea.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Subwaymap_Eng.jpg
the "airport rail" goes directly to the subway net. Yeson is at the orange #3 subway Apgujeong Station.
A good choice is to go to the city with the rail or bus and then take a taxi. But make sure to print out the adress in korean , the taxi dirvers often cannot read or speak english! We wanted to do that - use the express bus and then take a taxi, but we could not get a taxi that could read the english printout of the website of the place we stayed, so we ended up using the subway after all.
And of course - if you have the cash, take the nice hotel and direct flight - it makes things more relaxed and nice. i could not afford it so I went for Phil House and a cheap Air China flight which was quite a trip. But I maxed out my credit as it is for the surgery and the travel, so not much room for spending money on a bigger room with room service ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Melissa Forever on March 18, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
Post by: Melissa Forever on March 18, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
I can't believe I am going to be one of the Yeson girls! I have been thinking about this for so long and it is finally coming true. My surgery is booked for April 30! Barely enough time to get my passport updated and do some shopping so I have a few waredrobes!
I am so so so excited!
I am so so so excited!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Agdistis on March 18, 2015, 07:52:37 PM
Post by: Agdistis on March 18, 2015, 07:52:37 PM
Quote from: anjaq on March 18, 2015, 07:07:41 AM
I am the same then - 2-4 months. At least he did not predict more. 2-4 month is pretty ok, if it works. But of course I hope for the 2 months or less ;) - some were told the same and had big changes after 6 weeks already. I already am making appointments for speech therapy for the 2 month mark - she knows me from before, so she really wants to know how it will be. She usually opposes surgery, but in my case she was actually thinking it will help
I can't wait to not have to worry about coughing so much, it's like I live in constant fear of it now! The next month needs to go by quick!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 19, 2015, 07:12:12 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 19, 2015, 07:12:12 AM
They never told me really when it is safe to cough or sneeze again. Just that I should best avoid it - probably for as long as possible...I dont feel so bad though if it happens now after 3 weeks, but earlier this week when I had to cough a bit harder, I noticed some soreness for some hours after that, so apparently it still is not something one should take lightly. I quickly ate some ice cream :P
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on March 19, 2015, 10:16:31 AM
Post by: ReDucks on March 19, 2015, 10:16:31 AM
Coughing was a fear for me too, but I try to do it without making any vocal sounds. All that hacking and groaning we do when we cough is really unnecessary, it is possible to cough without engaging the vocal cords. A friend showed me that years ago because she was afraid for my voice going out and my hacking sounds made her cringe. Its the same throat trick as clearing without sound only a lot more air goes out.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 19, 2015, 10:56:28 AM
Post by: anjaq on March 19, 2015, 10:56:28 AM
Yes - its possible but sometimes the reflex of the body still makes me cough with some sound. It took me a day or so to get it working mostly without sound, but occasionally it always happened to me, especially if I had a lot of phlegm or if I mis-swallowed something. Especially after the Botox, swallowing was in some way harder for me. I hope this goes away before the whole Botox period.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on March 30, 2015, 02:06:58 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on March 30, 2015, 02:06:58 PM
Forgive me Anja, but I'm posting this as a reply because I can't quite figure out how to post it normally.
Hi everyone.
Well Dr Kim looked at my vocal chord video and came up with the following comments. He seems decidedly cool on doing VFS for me and I'm not sure if he sees any benefit. What do you think? Any help decoding what this analysis really means would be much appreciated!
Thank you,
Sarah.
Please refer to Dr.Kim's comment below.
"Vocal folds assymetry along with muscle tension discrepancy are observed on your vocal folds. The contact of vocal folds is unstable and vocal tremor and voice break are at present.
This indicates that you have hypofunctional voice due to againg process and presbylaryngis. However, other organic voice disorders are not observed.
At the moment, you can have VFS surgery, however, post-operatively a long-term botox treatment through injection and medication are required.
Vocal function exercise must be accompanied continuously to adapt to using your new vocal folds.
Please take all this into consideration and make a decision."
Hi everyone.
Well Dr Kim looked at my vocal chord video and came up with the following comments. He seems decidedly cool on doing VFS for me and I'm not sure if he sees any benefit. What do you think? Any help decoding what this analysis really means would be much appreciated!
Thank you,
Sarah.
Please refer to Dr.Kim's comment below.
"Vocal folds assymetry along with muscle tension discrepancy are observed on your vocal folds. The contact of vocal folds is unstable and vocal tremor and voice break are at present.
This indicates that you have hypofunctional voice due to againg process and presbylaryngis. However, other organic voice disorders are not observed.
At the moment, you can have VFS surgery, however, post-operatively a long-term botox treatment through injection and medication are required.
Vocal function exercise must be accompanied continuously to adapt to using your new vocal folds.
Please take all this into consideration and make a decision."
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on March 30, 2015, 03:46:09 PM
Post by: anjaq on March 30, 2015, 03:46:09 PM
I replied to your separate post on this in the voice forum.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on March 30, 2015, 04:57:40 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on March 30, 2015, 04:57:40 PM
Thanks Anja. Sorry to put it in two places.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 03:21:49 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 03:21:49 PM
So before surgery did you have to stop HRT and aspirin only or all your medications? Can I still take spiro for example? I would really NOT like to get T back in my system...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on April 02, 2015, 04:48:32 PM
Post by: ElleA on April 02, 2015, 04:48:32 PM
Spiel wouldn't be advised either, dr Kim wanted me to stop taking everything.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 05:02:51 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 05:02:51 PM
Quote from: ElleA on April 02, 2015, 04:48:32 PMFor 14 days or just day before?
Spiel wouldn't be advised either, dr Kim wanted me to stop taking everything.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on April 02, 2015, 05:03:26 PM
Post by: ElleA on April 02, 2015, 05:03:26 PM
14 days is best
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 02, 2015, 05:55:20 PM
Post by: anjaq on April 02, 2015, 05:55:20 PM
They want you to stop estrogens and antiandrogens, they even asked me to stop progesterone. I talked to this with my endocrinologist and she gave me in writing that I should not stop transdermal estrogens or progesterone - bringing my stabilized hormonal balance out of what would rather hinder my healing and resistance to side effects. She was however saying that something like antiandrogens or estradiol tablets are a different thing. AFAIK those latter ones are increasing thrombosis risk and are a strain on the liver. I followed my endocrinologists advice and kept doing the transdermal estradiol and progesterone capsules until the day of arrival. I stopped all medication including my thyroid hormones then however for the day of examination and the day of surgery. Yeson are doing a blood test, but hormones do not appear on it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 08:58:21 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 08:58:21 PM
Quote from: anjaq on April 02, 2015, 05:55:20 PM
They want you to stop estrogens and antiandrogens, they even asked me to stop progesterone. I talked to this with my endocrinologist and she gave me in writing that I should not stop transdermal estrogens or progesterone - bringing my stabilized hormonal balance out of what would rather hinder my healing and resistance to side effects. She was however saying that something like antiandrogens or estradiol tablets are a different thing. AFAIK those latter ones are increasing thrombosis risk and are a strain on the liver. I followed my endocrinologists advice and kept doing the transdermal estradiol and progesterone capsules until the day of arrival. I stopped all medication including my thyroid hormones then however for the day of examination and the day of surgery. Yeson are doing a blood test, but hormones do not appear on it.
Makes sense. I am asking Jessie for confirmation but it looks like just E and spiro.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 09:00:45 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on April 02, 2015, 09:00:45 PM
Jessie said just hormones and aspirin. I will stop the spiro too. Just hope it doesn't send my blood pressure out of whack. Everything else is ok.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 03, 2015, 10:26:15 AM
Post by: anjaq on April 03, 2015, 10:26:15 AM
AFAIK they ask you during the examination to not take any medication on the morning or surgery - if onyl so you can avoid that sip of water that you are not allowed ;) - but you can start right on the evening again, since you have no period of staying in hospital bed for long, so no real risk of thrombosis or blood pressure issues. They will give you an infusion with some stuff during surgery, antibiotics, cortisone,...
But sind it overall is only a 1 hour surgery, I would not sweat too much about the medication, just be sure you avoid anything like aspirin or other blood thinning medication, that could cause bleeding.
But sind it overall is only a 1 hour surgery, I would not sweat too much about the medication, just be sure you avoid anything like aspirin or other blood thinning medication, that could cause bleeding.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on April 03, 2015, 04:31:12 PM
Post by: mk854 on April 03, 2015, 04:31:12 PM
Hi ElleA,
How are you doing and how does your voice sound now. I still don't feel any difference in my voice than before VFS. However, 4 months didn't pass yet and I am still hopeful. I am doing voice exercise with a speech pathologist. My voice is scratchy and I am very sad. Michelle
How are you doing and how does your voice sound now. I still don't feel any difference in my voice than before VFS. However, 4 months didn't pass yet and I am still hopeful. I am doing voice exercise with a speech pathologist. My voice is scratchy and I am very sad. Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 03, 2015, 05:28:49 PM
Post by: anjaq on April 03, 2015, 05:28:49 PM
Oh, how long is it for you now, Michelle? In what way is the voice the same - do others see that the same way? Did the voice turn to be better and then worse again or was it the same?
Have you checked endoscopic videos and does it still look good? Dr Kim said I can send him a video and voice file and he can see then if all is ok at the end of the month 2. Did you give your voice enough rest and follow the instructions? I am a bit worried that I may overuse the voic enow. I am just past week 5 and notice that my voice gets bad rather quickly and I wonder if I should rather try to not use it to prevent it from suffering damage. But then again, Dr Kim said it is safe to speak as long as one gives it enough rest.
The main difference I noticed now is the change in timbre - that change is more dramatic than the change in pitch, but the low pitches are definitely gone, have you tried if your lowest pitch range changed, Michelle?
Have you checked endoscopic videos and does it still look good? Dr Kim said I can send him a video and voice file and he can see then if all is ok at the end of the month 2. Did you give your voice enough rest and follow the instructions? I am a bit worried that I may overuse the voic enow. I am just past week 5 and notice that my voice gets bad rather quickly and I wonder if I should rather try to not use it to prevent it from suffering damage. But then again, Dr Kim said it is safe to speak as long as one gives it enough rest.
The main difference I noticed now is the change in timbre - that change is more dramatic than the change in pitch, but the low pitches are definitely gone, have you tried if your lowest pitch range changed, Michelle?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on April 03, 2015, 08:25:52 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on April 03, 2015, 08:25:52 PM
Quote from: anjaq on April 03, 2015, 10:26:15 AM
AFAIK they ask you during the examination to not take any medication on the morning or surgery - if onyl so you can avoid that sip of water that you are not allowed ;) - but you can start right on the evening again, since you have no period of staying in hospital bed for long, so no real risk of thrombosis or blood pressure issues. They will give you an infusion with some stuff during surgery, antibiotics, cortisone,...
But sind it overall is only a 1 hour surgery, I would not sweat too much about the medication, just be sure you avoid anything like aspirin or other blood thinning medication, that could cause bleeding.
Yeah I am just nervous... my whole chronic health conditions are very scary for me. Totally uncharted territory. I am very cautious. One reason I do my primary care with my HRT. They are super nice and manage everything perfectly.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on April 04, 2015, 05:45:34 AM
Post by: ElleA on April 04, 2015, 05:45:34 AM
Hi Michelle,
I feel pretty good, my voice is a little higher than it was before surgery but not much. And definitely scratchy. I noticed a massive difference after doing voice exercises each time. My pitch goes up and I sound more breathy than scratchy.
It's early days and I know from other surgeries that it is usually 4-5 months minimum before you notice any major improvements. I'm just staying positive and trying to do my best to look after my voice.
Hope you start seeing improvements and feeling better about it all. Surgery is one of those things that can feel like a bad choice if you don't notice changes immediately after the recovery period. Just stick in there and I am sure you will see a difference soon.
I feel pretty good, my voice is a little higher than it was before surgery but not much. And definitely scratchy. I noticed a massive difference after doing voice exercises each time. My pitch goes up and I sound more breathy than scratchy.
It's early days and I know from other surgeries that it is usually 4-5 months minimum before you notice any major improvements. I'm just staying positive and trying to do my best to look after my voice.
Hope you start seeing improvements and feeling better about it all. Surgery is one of those things that can feel like a bad choice if you don't notice changes immediately after the recovery period. Just stick in there and I am sure you will see a difference soon.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on April 04, 2015, 09:35:25 AM
Post by: mk854 on April 04, 2015, 09:35:25 AM
Hi Anjac,
It is 2 months and 14 days since my VFS. No I didn't send Dr. Kim any voice sample yet. I asked Dr. Kim before leaving Seoul that I need to talk at my work after 5 weeks of rest, and he said it was ok to talk as long as I give my voice enough rest, which I did. I have much more lower pitch range that I never had before.
No my coworkers and doctors didn't say anything about my voice because I am stealth and no one knows. Even before surgery my voice was acceptable and no one ever said anything.
Anjac, If you allow me to send you my before and after voice samples, then please send me your email at mk854@hotmail.com. After listening to my voice sample, let me know if it is better or worse before I go completely nuts; it seems that you know this voice business more than anyone here.
How can I analyze my voice to measure voice pitch and frequencies? I have down loaded Audacity on my laptop but don't know what I am looking for there other than listening to my voice recording. Thank you very much for your response. Michelle
It is 2 months and 14 days since my VFS. No I didn't send Dr. Kim any voice sample yet. I asked Dr. Kim before leaving Seoul that I need to talk at my work after 5 weeks of rest, and he said it was ok to talk as long as I give my voice enough rest, which I did. I have much more lower pitch range that I never had before.
No my coworkers and doctors didn't say anything about my voice because I am stealth and no one knows. Even before surgery my voice was acceptable and no one ever said anything.
Anjac, If you allow me to send you my before and after voice samples, then please send me your email at mk854@hotmail.com. After listening to my voice sample, let me know if it is better or worse before I go completely nuts; it seems that you know this voice business more than anyone here.
How can I analyze my voice to measure voice pitch and frequencies? I have down loaded Audacity on my laptop but don't know what I am looking for there other than listening to my voice recording. Thank you very much for your response. Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on April 04, 2015, 10:36:44 AM
Post by: ImagineKate on April 04, 2015, 10:36:44 AM
Check out this thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: mk854 on April 04, 2015, 11:16:40 AM
Post by: mk854 on April 04, 2015, 11:16:40 AM
Imagine Kate,
Thank you very much for your assistance. Michelle
Thank you very much for your assistance. Michelle
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on April 04, 2015, 05:39:35 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on April 04, 2015, 05:39:35 PM
Quote from: ImagineKate on April 04, 2015, 10:36:44 AM
Check out this thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,150142.0.html
Hi Kate.
I looked at the Praat tutorials from Jenny and found out although my pitch is in the female range, my 3rd formant is androgenous. As I understand it, the Yeson surgery doesn't affect the 3rd formant, so is there any point in my having the surgery do you think?
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ImagineKate on April 04, 2015, 05:40:54 PM
Post by: ImagineKate on April 04, 2015, 05:40:54 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on April 04, 2015, 05:39:35 PM
Hi Kate.
I looked at the Praat tutorials from Jenny and found out although my pitch is in the female range, my 3rd formant is androgenous. As I understand it, the Yeson surgery doesn't affect the 3rd formant, so is there any point in my having the surgery do you think?
Sarah
I don't know, did you ask them to evaluate you with a voice file?
They recommend training after the surgery anyway, which is what I plan to do.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 04, 2015, 06:27:45 PM
Post by: anjaq on April 04, 2015, 06:27:45 PM
As I understand it the third formant is a possibility to make a decision about the sound of a voice. I dont think it is as important as one may think. Of course, if you are in a better range there, the overall impression will most likely be better. I cannot yet tell you what the surgery changes in that respect - but I suspect it has an effect. What is most apparent for me at this stage is that the timbre has changes, the low undertones are gone. I still have to improve my resonance and some things about the way I speak and intonations - but I think I am mostly there in those, I just have to let go and relax more , now that my voice has changed and doe snot need to be forced anymore :) - voice therapy, as people tell here over and over again is needed in conjunction woth the Yeson procedure. Its a voice supporting surgery - it makes it easier and more relaxed to use the voice in a feminine way and it eleiminates some male traits. What you do from that stage on still is up to you and voice training, therapy, rehabilitation,...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: JenP on April 07, 2015, 04:28:13 AM
Post by: JenP on April 07, 2015, 04:28:13 AM
I've spent the afternoon and evening reading through most of this and there is a wealth of information. One things that I am concerned about is that my voice is already on the higher end of male range when relaxed. A natural 'mmmm' sound is somewhere between 140 and 150hz.I can fairly easily pull that up to 220hz. Based on the vocal range increase of 75hz, this puts me at 225+ after surgery. I feel like for me that is a little too high and I normally baseline my voice closer to 210 (G3 or G3# instead of A3) in the mornings. Is it possible to limit the increase slightly so that I don't end up higher than comfortable. Some people seem to have gone well above the 75hz increase into the 230+ range and that just doesnt feel right for me. Actually, Ashlee from the Lets Fly Butterfly tumblr is the video that totally sold me on the procedure, but her increase does not seem as significant. Is that a conversation that takes place with Dr Kim? I have already spoken with Jessie and scheduled a date, but this is the one reservation I still have. Anyone have good luck post op with a passable voice and high starting male voice mean?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ElleA on April 07, 2015, 04:51:18 AM
Post by: ElleA on April 07, 2015, 04:51:18 AM
Hey Jen, it's definitely something you can discuss with Jessie or Dr Kim. In my experience so far it just makes it easier to hold the higher pitches and my voice now just sits naturally at the pitch that I was forcing before.
I had very similar pitches to you before surgery but I would get lower of the day as my voice tired.
I had very similar pitches to you before surgery but I would get lower of the day as my voice tired.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 07, 2015, 04:59:18 AM
Post by: anjaq on April 07, 2015, 04:59:18 AM
You can tell Dr Kim to limit the increase. He can shorten the vocal folds by only 30% or by up to 50% - However, their analysis of the voice is more comprehensive than what one can do at home with praat , I think, so it can be that something else will come out. Dr Kim definitely does not want anyone to leave there with a voice that is too high. He sent back some people who had already female range voices because it would have gotten them into the 260Hz+ range and he also takes into account your body size - a very big woman with a tiny high pitched voice is odd, so he is open to all kinds of concerns.
My feeling from the little experience I have now is that pitch increase is not as dramatic by "force", but it is easier to use higher pitches. I guess if I want, I can later on easily speak at 230 Hz, but probably I will rather use a 180 Hz range (started at 134 according to Dr Kim). But we'll see. A lot of the perception about pitch in the ear of the listener ist also timbre. If I talk at the same pitch (according to PRAAT) now compared to pre-op, it still sounds higher pitched becauser the low undertones are gone.
I think Dr Kim really is an artist, he will know what to do and answer all your questions and adress all your concerns. I have not yet met any doctor in my country who tool as much time to listen to me and my concerns and then actually adress all of them. I think you can trust him :)
My feeling from the little experience I have now is that pitch increase is not as dramatic by "force", but it is easier to use higher pitches. I guess if I want, I can later on easily speak at 230 Hz, but probably I will rather use a 180 Hz range (started at 134 according to Dr Kim). But we'll see. A lot of the perception about pitch in the ear of the listener ist also timbre. If I talk at the same pitch (according to PRAAT) now compared to pre-op, it still sounds higher pitched becauser the low undertones are gone.
I think Dr Kim really is an artist, he will know what to do and answer all your questions and adress all your concerns. I have not yet met any doctor in my country who tool as much time to listen to me and my concerns and then actually adress all of them. I think you can trust him :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on April 07, 2015, 10:09:14 AM
Post by: kwala on April 07, 2015, 10:09:14 AM
Quote from: anjaq on April 07, 2015, 04:59:18 AM
You can tell Dr Kim to limit the increase. He can shorten the vocal folds by only 30% or by up to 50% - However, their analysis of the voice is more comprehensive than what one can do at home with praat , I think, so it can be that something else will come out. Dr Kim definitely does not want anyone to leave there with a voice that is too high. He sent back some people who had already female range voices because it would have gotten them into the 260Hz+ range and he also takes into account your body size - a very big woman with a tiny high pitched voice is odd, so he is open to all kinds of concerns.
My feeling from the little experience I have now is that pitch increase is not as dramatic by "force", but it is easier to use higher pitches. I guess if I want, I can later on easily speak at 230 Hz, but probably I will rather use a 180 Hz range (started at 134 according to Dr Kim). But we'll see. A lot of the perception about pitch in the ear of the listener ist also timbre. If I talk at the same pitch (according to PRAAT) now compared to pre-op, it still sounds higher pitched becauser the low undertones are gone.
I think Dr Kim really is an artist, he will know what to do and answer all your questions and adress all your concerns. I have not yet met any doctor in my country who tool as much time to listen to me and my concerns and then actually adress all of them. I think you can trust him :)
Anja, I think you are right on the money about timbre and its effect on perceived pitch. When you hear a single note, you may think that note is all you're hearing, but as you pointed out, there is actually a series of overtones and undertones that accompany it and change the sound color. If a genetic male and a genetic female sing the same pitch, most untrained ears will automatically assume that the female pitch is higher. I think being aware of this is going to help you greatly in finding the voice that is perfect for you.
People say that these surgeries do not affect timbre or resonance, just pitch. But to some degree, they simply must. Changing the vibrating mass in terms of size and shape will have an effect on ANY instrument in regards to the overtone series. It may be slight, but it will occur. I think they use the pitch only explanation because voice therapy is incredibly helpful and they wouldn't want any patients to think that this surgery is a quick fix without any work on your part post-op. You still have to do exercises and in many cases seek out a voice therapist to get the best possible result.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on April 07, 2015, 12:19:36 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on April 07, 2015, 12:19:36 PM
Quote from: kwala on April 07, 2015, 10:09:14 AM
Anja, I think you are right on the money about timbre and its effect on perceived pitch. When you hear a single note, you may think that note is all you're hearing, but as you pointed out, there is actually a series of overtones and undertones that accompany it and change the sound color. If a genetic male and a genetic female sing the same pitch, most untrained ears will automatically assume that the female pitch is higher. I think being aware of this is going to help you greatly in finding the voice that is perfect for you.
People say that these surgeries do not affect timbre or resonance, just pitch. But to some degree, they simply must. Changing the vibrating mass in terms of size and shape will have an effect on ANY instrument in regards to the overtone series. It may be slight, but it will occur. I think they use the pitch only explanation because voice therapy is incredibly helpful and they wouldn't want any patients to think that this surgery is a quick fix without any work on your part post-op. You still have to do exercises and in many cases seek out a voice therapist to get the best possible result.
Can I say how useful all these discussions are? I think we're operating at a much higher level of understanding now than when Jenny started this thread about Yeson. In particular the idea of complex undertones lending a male sound even when the fundamental frequency is in the female range is quite convincing to me. So even when Dr Kim doesn't achieve much of a pitch elevation, voices still sound more female, and I've noticed they're 'purer' somehow. It's very interesting and hopeful for me.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on April 07, 2015, 03:38:14 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on April 07, 2015, 03:38:14 PM
Quote from: anjaq on April 07, 2015, 04:59:18 AM
You can tell Dr Kim to limit the increase. He can shorten the vocal folds by only 30% or by up to 50% - However, their analysis of the voice is more comprehensive than what one can do at home with praat , I think, so it can be that something else will come out. Dr Kim definitely does not want anyone to leave there with a voice that is too high. He sent back some people who had already female range voices because it would have gotten them into the 260Hz+ range and he also takes into account your body size - a very big woman with a tiny high pitched voice is odd, so he is open to all kinds of concerns.
My feeling from the little experience I have now is that pitch increase is not as dramatic by "force", but it is easier to use higher pitches. I guess if I want, I can later on easily speak at 230 Hz, but probably I will rather use a 180 Hz range (started at 134 according to Dr Kim). But we'll see. A lot of the perception about pitch in the ear of the listener ist also timbre. If I talk at the same pitch (according to PRAAT) now compared to pre-op, it still sounds higher pitched becauser the low undertones are gone.
I think Dr Kim really is an artist, he will know what to do and answer all your questions and adress all your concerns. I have not yet met any doctor in my country who tool as much time to listen to me and my concerns and then actually adress all of them. I think you can trust him :)
Hi Anja.
You said Dr Kim is open to a discussion on the degree to which he will reduce the fold length. What percentage did he reduce your own vocal chord length?
I know you're a teacher like me and will need to project to a class. Do you know how long it will take from the date of surgery to the time when you're fully able to do that? And sing as well!
Best wishes as always, Sarah.
(And woo-hoo! I'm no longer a Newbie! 52 posts!)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 07, 2015, 05:01:41 PM
Post by: anjaq on April 07, 2015, 05:01:41 PM
Sarah,
In my case he did 40%. Apparently that was needed because he had to correct the asymmetry I had as well. I know that most rooms have microphones and I am prepared to use them for a while at least. I expect some loss in volume even in the final result, but thats ok in a way. The reason for that is that my volume goes up with pitch - higher pitch - more loudness. So a loss in volume at the same pitch is probably partly compensated by the higher pitch :P - But thats a wild guess. In reality, I am willing to pay the price and loose some percent in volume for a better voice. How much is lost - only the long-timers can tell you, but they are rather quiet these days.
I cannot yet say how long until the voice is loud enough to speak in front of a class without a microphone. I kind of hope that in June it will be ok enough, since I have a 150 minute lecture then. Right now - I am not even close to begin to think about it. I am 6 weeks post op now and just having a weekend with friends and doing some chatting led to a sore throat on Monday. I would probably not be heard by someone sitting in my car while we are driving on the freeway. But thats to be expected - it is not until week 8 that one can start singing and doing voice exercises and strengthening exercises again and then it takes some more time until strength comes back. I suspect until the botox wears off in month 4, there is always a capo on the voice and it will be limited.
This is why I timed the visit to Korea in February even though Seoul is boring and grey in February, but I knew there was a teaching break for 8 weeks and my main speaking times in the job would be in June and July, so I gave myself as much time as I could to recover and still expect to need some help with amplifiers for a while.
In my case he did 40%. Apparently that was needed because he had to correct the asymmetry I had as well. I know that most rooms have microphones and I am prepared to use them for a while at least. I expect some loss in volume even in the final result, but thats ok in a way. The reason for that is that my volume goes up with pitch - higher pitch - more loudness. So a loss in volume at the same pitch is probably partly compensated by the higher pitch :P - But thats a wild guess. In reality, I am willing to pay the price and loose some percent in volume for a better voice. How much is lost - only the long-timers can tell you, but they are rather quiet these days.
I cannot yet say how long until the voice is loud enough to speak in front of a class without a microphone. I kind of hope that in June it will be ok enough, since I have a 150 minute lecture then. Right now - I am not even close to begin to think about it. I am 6 weeks post op now and just having a weekend with friends and doing some chatting led to a sore throat on Monday. I would probably not be heard by someone sitting in my car while we are driving on the freeway. But thats to be expected - it is not until week 8 that one can start singing and doing voice exercises and strengthening exercises again and then it takes some more time until strength comes back. I suspect until the botox wears off in month 4, there is always a capo on the voice and it will be limited.
This is why I timed the visit to Korea in February even though Seoul is boring and grey in February, but I knew there was a teaching break for 8 weeks and my main speaking times in the job would be in June and July, so I gave myself as much time as I could to recover and still expect to need some help with amplifiers for a while.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on April 07, 2015, 10:19:56 PM
Post by: kwala on April 07, 2015, 10:19:56 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on April 07, 2015, 12:19:36 PM
Can I say how useful all these discussions are? I think we're operating at a much higher level of understanding now than when Jenny started this thread about Yeson. In particular the idea of complex undertones lending a male sound even when the fundamental frequency is in the female range is quite convincing to me. So even when Dr Kim doesn't achieve much of a pitch elevation, voices still sound more female, and I've noticed they're 'purer' somehow. It's very interesting and hopeful for me.
I totally agree and I'm so grateful to all of those here who have been willing to share their personal experiences with voice surgeries for our benefit. I have been researching this for a year as I consider undergoing the process myself and there is a LOT of great information being passed around here that you can't find anywhere else.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Calycé on April 08, 2015, 07:59:45 PM
Post by: Calycé on April 08, 2015, 07:59:45 PM
I had VFS in Yeson yesterday.
Like others here, I had assymetry. Rather big in my case it seems. My vocal folds were also never fully closing when making sound. Dr Kim told I needed 10 times more energy to speak than "normal" people. That probably explains why I was unable to make an aah that lasted 10 seconds as asked during examination. He also told me that I was totally unable to make resonance, he showed me on a graph a series of dot that according to him should have been full lines... He told me that I really really really need to see a speech therapist!
My fundamental frequency was 120hz. He told me that I would probably be just below the female range but that with the aid of a speech therapist I could probably sit in the low part of the female range.
According to the previous and after pictures of my vocal folds that he showed me, my untrained eye would say that he did between 40% and 50%.
Yesterday my throat was quite painful but it is ok now, just a small pain like I have laryngitis. All in all, it is the least painful surgery I had so far :)
Like others here, I had assymetry. Rather big in my case it seems. My vocal folds were also never fully closing when making sound. Dr Kim told I needed 10 times more energy to speak than "normal" people. That probably explains why I was unable to make an aah that lasted 10 seconds as asked during examination. He also told me that I was totally unable to make resonance, he showed me on a graph a series of dot that according to him should have been full lines... He told me that I really really really need to see a speech therapist!
My fundamental frequency was 120hz. He told me that I would probably be just below the female range but that with the aid of a speech therapist I could probably sit in the low part of the female range.
According to the previous and after pictures of my vocal folds that he showed me, my untrained eye would say that he did between 40% and 50%.
Yesterday my throat was quite painful but it is ok now, just a small pain like I have laryngitis. All in all, it is the least painful surgery I had so far :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 09, 2015, 03:06:13 AM
Post by: anjaq on April 09, 2015, 03:06:13 AM
Congrats Calycé
Keep us updated on how it goes along
Keep us updated on how it goes along
Quote from: Calycé on April 08, 2015, 07:59:45 PMYes, I know that one ;) - I think he had to make the suture a bit longer becasue of that, around 40% instead of the 1/3 that many had
Like others here, I had assymetry. Rather big in my case it seems. My vocal folds were also never fully closing when making sound. Dr Kim told I needed 10 times more energy to speak than "normal" people. That probably explains why I was unable to make an aah that lasted 10 seconds as asked during examination
QuoteMy fundamental frequency was 120hz. He told me that I would probably be just below the female range but that with the aid of a speech therapist I could probably sit in the low part of the female range.I guess I am probably the same here too, but Dr Kim said my frequency was 134 Hz, but I think that was because I could not lot go of some feminization habits with my voice when we did the analysis, so I ended up a bit higher than I might have. I guess his calculation would then be 120+74=194 Hz which is below the 200 Hz that Dr Kim regards as the female range? I would not sweat about that, because 200 Hz is not the limit, I usually read 180 Hz is the lower female range , so you would be fine, but it depends on your country and culture. Koreans obviously have higher female voices, Americans medium, Germans rather low voices...
QuoteYesterday my throat was quite painful but it is ok now, just a small pain like I have laryngitis. All in all, it is the least painful surgery I had so far :)Indeed it is. and in 3 days or so you will hardly notice you had surgery unless you have to cough or sneeze and you will have to remind yourself to not speak because it wont feel like anything happened :P ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Calycé on April 09, 2015, 08:04:00 PM
Post by: Calycé on April 09, 2015, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: anjaq on April 09, 2015, 03:06:13 AMThanks anjaq, I'll do it
Congrats Calycé
Keep us updated on how it goes along
Quote from: anjaq on April 09, 2015, 03:06:13 AMI'm not worried about the final results. It could only be better than what I used to have. I've never been able to attain a passable voice. It was always "hello miss bye mister". But I'll make sure to seek the aid of a speech therapist. I don't know anyone in Belgium who have the kind of expertise we need... If there's another belgian girl who has an address to give me ;)
Yes, I know that one ;) - I think he had to make the suture a bit longer becasue of that, around 40% instead of the 1/3 that many had
I guess I am probably the same here too, but Dr Kim said my frequency was 134 Hz, but I think that was because I could not lot go of some feminization habits with my voice when we did the analysis, so I ended up a bit higher than I might have. I guess his calculation would then be 120+74=194 Hz which is below the 200 Hz that Dr Kim regards as the female range? I would not sweat about that, because 200 Hz is not the limit, I usually read 180 Hz is the lower female range , so you would be fine, but it depends on your country and culture. Koreans obviously have higher female voices, Americans medium, Germans rather low voices...
Quote from: anjaq on April 09, 2015, 03:06:13 AMWell, this is day 2 and I already don't feel anything except when eating where it is a little painful to chew on the side where my focal fold was much bigger than the other. I suppose it is due to the more aggressive thinning of that cord. Just my uneducated guess...
Indeed it is. and in 3 days or so you will hardly notice you had surgery unless you have to cough or sneeze and you will have to remind yourself to not speak because it wont feel like anything happened :P ;)
Now I'm just a little worried because I spoke during the first night. I woke up and forgot not to speak. How stupid I can be at times ;D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 10, 2015, 03:02:04 AM
Post by: anjaq on April 10, 2015, 03:02:04 AM
Ah dont worry about that. It seems to happen to everyone and Jessie usually tells everyone then to calm down and just make sure it does not happen again. I woke up the morning after surgery because the bell of the room rang and my friend asked me "whats that sound" - so I was half asleep and of course did not remember not to say "its the doorbell". Oh no! :P - But as I said - it happens to everyone in some odd situation, just be more carefull in the next week.
I think as well - it can only get better. For me it already is a lot better now, event hough pitch is not yet where I was hoping it to be, but already I notice a lot of other differences. I think I will profit a lot from voice therapy though to get used to the new way my voice works. I am sure there will be someone in all of Belgium who can do voice therapy with you. It helps if that person is aware of gender differences and maybe even trans*-issues, but its not really a requirement per se after the surgery - The main focus is on speaking naturally, speaking with a good resonance, speaking without the hypertension and forcing and all the bad things that one has learned in the years speaking unntaurally or trying to sound feminine or compensating for the asymmetry. So in many ways it is just regular speech therapy as any other people would get who had some other type of surgery or have other types of vocal disorders.
I think as well - it can only get better. For me it already is a lot better now, event hough pitch is not yet where I was hoping it to be, but already I notice a lot of other differences. I think I will profit a lot from voice therapy though to get used to the new way my voice works. I am sure there will be someone in all of Belgium who can do voice therapy with you. It helps if that person is aware of gender differences and maybe even trans*-issues, but its not really a requirement per se after the surgery - The main focus is on speaking naturally, speaking with a good resonance, speaking without the hypertension and forcing and all the bad things that one has learned in the years speaking unntaurally or trying to sound feminine or compensating for the asymmetry. So in many ways it is just regular speech therapy as any other people would get who had some other type of surgery or have other types of vocal disorders.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on April 10, 2015, 07:49:52 AM
Post by: Teslagirl on April 10, 2015, 07:49:52 AM
Quote from: anjaq on April 10, 2015, 03:02:04 AM
Ah dont worry about that. It seems to happen to everyone and Jessie usually tells everyone then to calm down and just make sure it does not happen again. I woke up the morning after surgery because the bell of the room rang and my friend asked me "whats that sound" - so I was half asleep and of course did not remember not to say "its the doorbell". Oh no! :P - But as I said - it happens to everyone in some odd situation, just be more carefull in the next week.
I think as well - it can only get better. For me it already is a lot better now, event hough pitch is not yet where I was hoping it to be, but already I notice a lot of other differences. I think I will profit a lot from voice therapy though to get used to the new way my voice works. I am sure there will be someone in all of Belgium who can do voice therapy with you. It helps if that person is aware of gender differences and maybe even trans*-issues, but its not really a requirement per se after the surgery - The main focus is on speaking naturally, speaking with a good resonance, speaking without the hypertension and forcing and all the bad things that one has learned in the years speaking unntaurally or trying to sound feminine or compensating for the asymmetry. So in many ways it is just regular speech therapy as any other people would get who had some other type of surgery or have other types of vocal disorders.
Anja, is it a matter of relaxing the voice back to where it was before I started to control it? (Many years ago!) At the moment I project my voice forward from my head. After Yeson will I need to go back to projecting from my chest? If so, how about the resonance the head projection was learnt to control? I'm still a bit confused about what Dr Kim needs to hear before surgery. Clearly not my controlled voice?
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on April 10, 2015, 01:21:26 PM
Post by: anjaq on April 10, 2015, 01:21:26 PM
Well, I tried to relax as much as I can around people for the pre OP assessment. I know I could have gone lower or somehow switched my resonance, but there is a huge psychological barrier in the way of that.
I am not really sure what I am going to need to do later on. Dr Kim says to not control the voice, to just let it come at the pitch it will have - but as I understand it from the website, they also mention that resonance can be controlled with voice therapy. Some have said that resonance control is needed, but it is a lot easier than before and comes more natural, my impression is that this is how it is going to be - it is easier for me now to "speak from the head" - it sounds better, too. Dr Kim says we will have to learn how to "play a new instrument" and my guess is that this instrument is now reacting a lot better on female pitches and female resonances than before, so it is actually easier and less straining to use these. If I fall back to the way of speaking pre OP, I notice that I strain faster than if I actually do use a higher pitch and project more from the mouth. I cannot really say yet how it is going to be eventually though.
I am not really sure what I am going to need to do later on. Dr Kim says to not control the voice, to just let it come at the pitch it will have - but as I understand it from the website, they also mention that resonance can be controlled with voice therapy. Some have said that resonance control is needed, but it is a lot easier than before and comes more natural, my impression is that this is how it is going to be - it is easier for me now to "speak from the head" - it sounds better, too. Dr Kim says we will have to learn how to "play a new instrument" and my guess is that this instrument is now reacting a lot better on female pitches and female resonances than before, so it is actually easier and less straining to use these. If I fall back to the way of speaking pre OP, I notice that I strain faster than if I actually do use a higher pitch and project more from the mouth. I cannot really say yet how it is going to be eventually though.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 01, 2015, 01:15:02 PM
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 01, 2015, 01:15:02 PM
Wow, I had no idea voice surgery that worked this well was out there!!! How much does it run? I seriously dislike my voice - I'm often misgendered over the phone and drive through speakers. Others have told me that they find my voice soothing, but I simply can't hear it. How much did this surgery run you ladies? I'm so happy for y'all that you got good results!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: KristinaM on May 01, 2015, 02:06:27 PM
Post by: KristinaM on May 01, 2015, 02:06:27 PM
Yeah, this is the first time I've heard of surgery that wasn't like a 50/50 shot of irreparably screwing up your voice forever. Sounds much less invasive and promising for good results.
I didn't read all like 177 pages of this on Tapatalk, so does anybody the TL; DR version? [emoji14]
I didn't read all like 177 pages of this on Tapatalk, so does anybody the TL; DR version? [emoji14]
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on May 01, 2015, 02:41:00 PM
Post by: iKate on May 01, 2015, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: Tristan on May 01, 2015, 02:06:27 PM
Yeah, this is the first time I've heard of surgery that wasn't like a 50/50 shot of irreparably screwing up your voice forever. Sounds much less invasive and promising for good results.
I didn't read all like 177 pages of this on Tapatalk, so does anybody the TL; DR version? [emoji14]
They have a website. Look for Yeson Voice Center. You can also email them and they will give you a handy info sheet including costs.
It's basically endoscopic and ties the vocal folds together to shorten it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 01, 2015, 06:31:57 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 01, 2015, 06:31:57 PM
Short version: They use a technique that others do as well : Dr Haben and Dr Remarcle was mentioned here in the forum, Prof Nawka in Berlin and someone in Stuttgard do a similar thing as well, apparently someone in the UK also does the same basic technique. BUT there are differences in how they do it - I would not recommend the two german clinics, they seem to be less good, use not enough care. Prof Remarcle uses some extra caution, using glue in addition to threads to stabilize the suture and he orders a longer voice rest for healing than the german doctors. Dr Kim at Yeson clinic uses permanent thread and avoids lasers but rather works with microscalpels. So each one has small differences and I think they reflect in the success rate of the surgery. In Berlin it apparently is only a 30% happiness rate, at Yeson it is 70-80%.
The tecnique is shortening of the vocal folds by a glottoplasty - basically suturing hte vocal folds together at the front to make them shorter.
At Yeson clinic, costs are about $8000, at Prof Remarcle its about 2/3 of that I believe.
(plus travel and hotel). the surgery is short, 60-90 minutes and one can go home to the hotel the same day at Yeson, some surgeons will keep you for 1-2 nights.
Followup at Yeson is a week after surgery and then you can fly home.
The tecnique is shortening of the vocal folds by a glottoplasty - basically suturing hte vocal folds together at the front to make them shorter.
At Yeson clinic, costs are about $8000, at Prof Remarcle its about 2/3 of that I believe.
(plus travel and hotel). the surgery is short, 60-90 minutes and one can go home to the hotel the same day at Yeson, some surgeons will keep you for 1-2 nights.
Followup at Yeson is a week after surgery and then you can fly home.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 07, 2015, 05:05:33 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 07, 2015, 05:05:33 PM
I'm having surgery today at Yeson. Can't believe its finally today, and in like an hour.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 07, 2015, 05:52:03 PM
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 07, 2015, 05:52:03 PM
Best wishes, Zoe!!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 07, 2015, 10:52:28 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 07, 2015, 10:52:28 PM
Almost time, flying out of St. Louis on Sunday for surgery on Wednesday. Not nervous, but really looking forward to having this done and get the healing started. I am kind of nervous about making my way to Phil House though, as it's been 22 years since I've was last in the RoK. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 08, 2015, 04:09:17 AM
Post by: anjaq on May 08, 2015, 04:09:17 AM
Best Wishes for you two!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 08, 2015, 07:07:32 AM
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 08, 2015, 07:07:32 AM
Surgery went well. Had one hell of a sore throat afterwords, which thankfully is starting to get better now. I also showed up a few minutes late. Misjudged how long it would take to get there on the subway. The return trip on the subway was pretty exhausting this afternoon. I think I slept for a few hours once I got home. This was also my first time ever being put under. Very surreal experience. One second I'm laying on the operating table, then the anesthesiologist said I was about to go under, put a mask over my mouth and nose, and a few seconds later I'm waking up in the recovery room feeling really exhausted. Took a good hour or two before I really started to feel somewhat normal again. Now for the long process of no talking...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Wynternight on May 08, 2015, 08:12:20 AM
Post by: Wynternight on May 08, 2015, 08:12:20 AM
Huge yays, Zoe!! I look forward to all the new discoveries of the new voice!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 08, 2015, 01:38:27 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 08, 2015, 01:38:27 PM
Congrats! The soreness in the throat does not last long, amazingly. LOL, I think I was already out before they put the mask on ;)
It totally makes sense to take a taxi cab back to the hotel after the surgery. Its not that expensive and worth it , rather than using that subway with all its loooong corridors
It totally makes sense to take a taxi cab back to the hotel after the surgery. Its not that expensive and worth it , rather than using that subway with all its loooong corridors
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 12:51:53 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 12:51:53 PM
Well done Zoe!!
How are you getting on now?
How are you getting on now?
Quote from: Zoe Snow on May 07, 2015, 05:05:33 PM
I'm having surgery today at Yeson. Can't believe its finally today, and in like an hour.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 01:10:58 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 01:10:58 PM
Hello everyone.
I'm hoping to go to Yeson in July, and I have four questions:
Does anyone know what the weather is like in July?
Can you buy a travelcard like the Oyster card in London?
Is there a good hotel close to Yeson? The Philhouse seems a long way away...
With hotels, is a breakfast included in the rate like it is in the UK? (I just want to hibernate and not go out!)
Thank you,
Sarah
I'm hoping to go to Yeson in July, and I have four questions:
Does anyone know what the weather is like in July?
Can you buy a travelcard like the Oyster card in London?
Is there a good hotel close to Yeson? The Philhouse seems a long way away...
With hotels, is a breakfast included in the rate like it is in the UK? (I just want to hibernate and not go out!)
Thank you,
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 01:34:56 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: anjaq on February 14, 2015, 09:16:13 AM
What I heard is that if people have a good trained voice before VFS, there is a tendency that the change is not as large as one might hope for, but the way the voice is made is different. Easier, More natural. So especially Sarah and Amy had that experience, the voice itself from the outside did not change all that much, but it was just a lot easier to make that voice, it was no longer feeling like faking but just natural.
Anja, I have a trained voice and have been using it perhaps longer than most people here. I don't want to be disappointed by feeling there is no change. Do you think Dr Kim would be open to a 50% suture in someone like me to make sure I do get a change?
Thanks,
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 09, 2015, 02:36:54 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 09, 2015, 02:36:54 PM
Hi Sarah.
Regarding the stay in Korea - you can buy a rechargeable subway card. It is about $3-$5 i believe which is not refundable but then you can put money on that card and just go through the subway gates and put the card on a reader and it will substract a reduced fare compared to the single tickets. You can also use that card for other transportation, like bus and taxi and I believe some shops also accept it.
The hotels near the clinic are rather expensive as it is in Gangnam. Since you will only be in the clinic 3 times, I am not sure if it is worth it. I would also not hibernate all that time - Seoul is way too interesting and honestly after a day or two you dont feel at all like you had surgery and would just get bored in the hotel. Phil House is about 30 minutes away from the clinic - by taxi or subway. I found this quite bearable, but getting to the interesting parts of the city took also that long, so that made it a bit of a less favourite location. It basically also only pays off if you are travelling with a friend since the rooms then dont cost more for 2 people as for 1 person. The breakfast is super simple though, but you have a fridge and washing machine and even a kitchen, so you can basically cook and prepare food yourself. We used the breakfast twice and the rest of the time had bread and stuff in the fridge for breakfast. Mainly because we tended to sleep until 10am ;) - Its not a comfortable room to stay all day long though, but they have a common lounge area and a rooftop terrace where they also offer BBQ.
Regarding your trained voice and your expectations - what expectations do you have - how is your trained voice like - is it much higher in pitch than your untrained voice? Is it in the normal female range? Do you feel it should be higher in pitch?
Part of the result seems to be that the sound of the voice changes (less undertones), it is easier to reach higher pitches and for example laughing changed for me. Another effect is that it is becoming natural to use the voice that before the surgery was the trained voice or elevated pitch voice. You certainly can increase this even more with using some of your voice training. I could probably with ease speak at a 240 Hz voice now if I really wanted to, but it would mean to elevate my voice again, so I don't.
I think you can discuss your expectations with Dr Kim. They will do the voice analysis first, determine your untrained pitch and your trained pitch (maybe try out your untrained pitch before the examination, so you are able to do it. For me it was really hard to do because I have not used that for 17 years really, except some few occasions pre op to measure my pitch in PRAAT) - the goal of Dr Kim then is to go up from your original pitch to above 200 Hz - if that is done with the 75 Hz he usually aims for, its ok. The length of the suture can be varied and I think he has some parameters that influence that. In my case for example it seems that because of the asymmetry of my vocal folds he had to use a bit more length and shortened it by something halfway between 1/3 and 1/2, probably around 40%. He will usually not really be in favour of pushing a voice way above the 200 Hz level, as this may be unnatural then.
If you can post your voice parameters, we can discuss them :)
Regarding the stay in Korea - you can buy a rechargeable subway card. It is about $3-$5 i believe which is not refundable but then you can put money on that card and just go through the subway gates and put the card on a reader and it will substract a reduced fare compared to the single tickets. You can also use that card for other transportation, like bus and taxi and I believe some shops also accept it.
The hotels near the clinic are rather expensive as it is in Gangnam. Since you will only be in the clinic 3 times, I am not sure if it is worth it. I would also not hibernate all that time - Seoul is way too interesting and honestly after a day or two you dont feel at all like you had surgery and would just get bored in the hotel. Phil House is about 30 minutes away from the clinic - by taxi or subway. I found this quite bearable, but getting to the interesting parts of the city took also that long, so that made it a bit of a less favourite location. It basically also only pays off if you are travelling with a friend since the rooms then dont cost more for 2 people as for 1 person. The breakfast is super simple though, but you have a fridge and washing machine and even a kitchen, so you can basically cook and prepare food yourself. We used the breakfast twice and the rest of the time had bread and stuff in the fridge for breakfast. Mainly because we tended to sleep until 10am ;) - Its not a comfortable room to stay all day long though, but they have a common lounge area and a rooftop terrace where they also offer BBQ.
Regarding your trained voice and your expectations - what expectations do you have - how is your trained voice like - is it much higher in pitch than your untrained voice? Is it in the normal female range? Do you feel it should be higher in pitch?
Part of the result seems to be that the sound of the voice changes (less undertones), it is easier to reach higher pitches and for example laughing changed for me. Another effect is that it is becoming natural to use the voice that before the surgery was the trained voice or elevated pitch voice. You certainly can increase this even more with using some of your voice training. I could probably with ease speak at a 240 Hz voice now if I really wanted to, but it would mean to elevate my voice again, so I don't.
I think you can discuss your expectations with Dr Kim. They will do the voice analysis first, determine your untrained pitch and your trained pitch (maybe try out your untrained pitch before the examination, so you are able to do it. For me it was really hard to do because I have not used that for 17 years really, except some few occasions pre op to measure my pitch in PRAAT) - the goal of Dr Kim then is to go up from your original pitch to above 200 Hz - if that is done with the 75 Hz he usually aims for, its ok. The length of the suture can be varied and I think he has some parameters that influence that. In my case for example it seems that because of the asymmetry of my vocal folds he had to use a bit more length and shortened it by something halfway between 1/3 and 1/2, probably around 40%. He will usually not really be in favour of pushing a voice way above the 200 Hz level, as this may be unnatural then.
If you can post your voice parameters, we can discuss them :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 10, 2015, 02:46:41 AM
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 10, 2015, 02:46:41 AM
Quote from: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 12:51:53 PM
Well done Zoe!!
How are you getting on now?
I'm doing alright, though I think I may be catching a cold. I woke up with a bit of a runny nose, and my throat is still a bit sore. I contacted Jessie about it, and she pretty much told me to just take it easy and to keep taking all the meds they put me on as they were all designed to deal with cold symptoms.
I think I may have pushed myself a bit too hard yesterday. I spent the day with some people I met on the flight out here. They were doing some touristy type things. Today, with the cold symptoms, I've just been laying in bed all day watching movies. Hopefully I'll be feeling better tomorrow, and I'll actually get outside and do a few things. Kinda sucks to be in a foreign country, but stuck in bed trying to kick a cold.
As for where to stay out here, I found the subway to be an amazing form of transportation. Yeson is about a 10 minute walk from the Apgujeoung station. I'm actually not staying at a hotel while I'm out here though. Turns out an entire social circle I had back home was made up of people who used to live out here teaching English. They put me in contact with some of their friends who still live out here, and one of which offered to let me sleep on her couch.
Dr. Kim told me that my natural voice was around 150 Hz. Pretty sure my natural voice was lower than that, but I haven't used it much over the last 9 months. My trained voice came in at around 180 Hz. He thinks I'll end up around 224 Hz once everything is fully healed and I've adjusted to the new voice. He also said I have a tremor, and that I can't make any resonance frequencies. I think those two may be related. He wants me to start working with a speech therapist back home in a few months.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 10, 2015, 04:07:10 AM
Post by: anjaq on May 10, 2015, 04:07:10 AM
Well the 224 Hz is pretty much the standard average calculation he uses. 150 Hz+74Hz=224 Hz. He always uses that number, but I think one has to take into account that the recording they do of the untrained voice is not always right. Especially if you have been using a feminized voice for a long time, its pretty hard to try and get to some old voice again, He determined mine to be 134 Hz, but I am sure that it was more like 110. So according to the average calculation then I should come out at 184 and not above 200 as he predicted. HOWEVER what I dont get about this is: Post OP you are supposed to use a female resonance and not the male phonation pattern. So in a way the comparison is a bit distorted since with a female resonance, I was not at 110 Hz or even 134 Hz but more around 150 Hz. So I am not sure about this calculation of adding 74 Hz. To me it seems that resonance would elevate the voice as well, so part of the pitch increase may come from the voice training and part is from the surgery - some have gained more than the 74 Hz by combining those two, those who have not done successful voice training seem to be below the 74 Hz increase...
I think it is safe to do touristy things at day 2-3 after the surgery. Before that I was just not in the mood and still having some soreness and was tired from the flight. The medication they use, especially that cough syrup seems to be pretty good. Also of course - lots of water ;) - I bought more expensive water though, the regular bottled water they sell there has next to no minerals in it. It tasted like distilled water and I felt like it made me more dry than moisturize me.
Have fun the next days but dont overdo it. I thought of the trip as mainly a surgery trip - with no sightseeing at all, just getting the surgery done and return. Any sightseeing that I could add to that, I regarded as a happy bonus :)
I think it is safe to do touristy things at day 2-3 after the surgery. Before that I was just not in the mood and still having some soreness and was tired from the flight. The medication they use, especially that cough syrup seems to be pretty good. Also of course - lots of water ;) - I bought more expensive water though, the regular bottled water they sell there has next to no minerals in it. It tasted like distilled water and I felt like it made me more dry than moisturize me.
Have fun the next days but dont overdo it. I thought of the trip as mainly a surgery trip - with no sightseeing at all, just getting the surgery done and return. Any sightseeing that I could add to that, I regarded as a happy bonus :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 10, 2015, 11:02:04 AM
Post by: barbie on May 10, 2015, 11:02:04 AM
Quote from: Teslagirl on May 09, 2015, 01:10:58 PM
Hello everyone.
I'm hoping to go to Yeson in July, and I have four questions:
Does anyone know what the weather is like in July?
Monsoon usually starts in July. In can rain all days, or hot and humid. Fortunately, Asian (yellow) dust is unlikely in July.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 11, 2015, 04:38:29 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 11, 2015, 04:38:29 PM
Had a flight delay in Denver and missed the connecting flight from Narita. Flight I am booked on was the next day and will miss my consult. Hope that there is some leeway with the consult. :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 11, 2015, 04:43:12 PM
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 11, 2015, 04:43:12 PM
Crossing my fingers for you, lady!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 11, 2015, 05:49:40 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 11, 2015, 05:49:40 PM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 11, 2015, 04:38:29 PM
Had a flight delay in Denver and missed the connecting flight from Narita. Flight I am booked on was the next day and will miss my consult. Hope that there is some leeway with the consult. :(
Have you emailed them? They seem really nice people. I'm sure they'll find a way.
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 11, 2015, 05:53:01 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 11, 2015, 05:53:01 PM
Quote from: barbie on May 10, 2015, 11:02:04 AM
Monsoon usually starts in July. In can rain all days, or hot and humid. Fortunately, Asian (yellow) dust is unlikely in July.
barbie~~
Thanks Barbie. I'd better take my umbrella!
I'm having some trouble finding booking pages for hotels in English (for example the Ramada). You can select the English option but then the booking page is in Korean. Do you have any ideas?
Thank you,
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 11, 2015, 06:08:39 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 11, 2015, 06:08:39 PM
I hope the rescheduling works out. Better inform them really soon with email. Their schedule is really tight it seems and they are fully booked, the examination takes half of a day and is mandatory before the surgery, which is on the next day in the morning. Maybe you can go there directly from the airport or something? - I hope the best for you.
Regarding hotel booking. Phil House had a english speaking contact by email, other hotels seem to have that too, if you just email them in englisch, they will probably reply. You can of course also use the international websites like booking.com or tripadvisor or such, they usually have some function to make a booking online that is sent to the hotels with some protocol.
Regarding hotel booking. Phil House had a english speaking contact by email, other hotels seem to have that too, if you just email them in englisch, they will probably reply. You can of course also use the international websites like booking.com or tripadvisor or such, they usually have some function to make a booking online that is sent to the hotels with some protocol.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 11, 2015, 07:23:14 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 11, 2015, 07:23:14 PM
Thanks. Sitting here in Narita International Airport trying not to be bored out of my mind. :)
I emailed them last night once I got to the hotel. I haven't heard back yet, but wasn't expecting to until at least after 09:30 or 10:00.
And Phil House got back to me within about 30 min and said checking in a day late does not effect my reservation. Yay. :)
I emailed them last night once I got to the hotel. I haven't heard back yet, but wasn't expecting to until at least after 09:30 or 10:00.
And Phil House got back to me within about 30 min and said checking in a day late does not effect my reservation. Yay. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kaybeccab on May 11, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Post by: kaybeccab on May 11, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Hey there! I found this forum looking for other girls who're going through this or have gone through this. I'm getting the surgery eventually. I have an interesting perspective on it since I have studied speech pathology. I'd like to offer some advice and words of warning, if that's OK:
This procedure won't automatically give you a female voice. The procedure raises the center of your vocal range. This does not give you the ability or the practice to do a female voice by itself. The surgery instead makes it significantly easier and more natural to do a female voice.
This is also, I suspect, why there are a lot of patients that say the surgery did nothing. If you have a rather large vocal range (Your voice can vary greatly in pitch):
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgL6701A.png&hash=8ed1305584ead4bac4140a95d0a1d6af2c3ba978)
Then your old voice will still be inside of your new, raised vocal range. If this is the case, your brain will habitually default to doing your old voice even if your vocal range is now female. That's also why there are cases of people's voices getting higher slowly after surgery. It's not a physical change in the vocal cords causing this slow change, the girl just has a larger vocal range that still includes her old voice and her brain is slowly getting used to the new center-point of the range.
What can you do to make sure your surgery goes smoothly? Know your voice! Get into voice acting/singing. Learn how your throat movies, learn what your voice does, test and learn your limits, and get into the habit of doing so so that you can test them again after your surgery!
Hope this helps.
This procedure won't automatically give you a female voice. The procedure raises the center of your vocal range. This does not give you the ability or the practice to do a female voice by itself. The surgery instead makes it significantly easier and more natural to do a female voice.
This is also, I suspect, why there are a lot of patients that say the surgery did nothing. If you have a rather large vocal range (Your voice can vary greatly in pitch):
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgL6701A.png&hash=8ed1305584ead4bac4140a95d0a1d6af2c3ba978)
Then your old voice will still be inside of your new, raised vocal range. If this is the case, your brain will habitually default to doing your old voice even if your vocal range is now female. That's also why there are cases of people's voices getting higher slowly after surgery. It's not a physical change in the vocal cords causing this slow change, the girl just has a larger vocal range that still includes her old voice and her brain is slowly getting used to the new center-point of the range.
What can you do to make sure your surgery goes smoothly? Know your voice! Get into voice acting/singing. Learn how your throat movies, learn what your voice does, test and learn your limits, and get into the habit of doing so so that you can test them again after your surgery!
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Mariah on May 11, 2015, 10:36:12 PM
Post by: Mariah on May 11, 2015, 10:36:12 PM
Hi Kaybeccab, welcome to Susan's. I look forward to seeing you around the site. Good luck and hugs
Mariah
Please check out the following links for site rules, helpful tips and other info...
Mariah
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Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 11, 2015, 11:37:18 PM
Post by: barbie on May 11, 2015, 11:37:18 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on May 11, 2015, 05:53:01 PM
Thanks Barbie. I'd better take my umbrella!
I'm having some trouble finding booking pages for hotels in English (for example the Ramada). You can select the English option but then the booking page is in Korean. Do you have any ideas?
Thank you,
Sarah.
Even young Koreans use hotel.com to find out hotels in Seoul. They offer better price options for hotel.com or other similar sites.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 05:18:51 AM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 05:18:51 AM
Finally made it to the hotel. And got my consult rescheduled for tomorrow. :)
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on May 12, 2015, 07:14:02 AM
Post by: iKate on May 12, 2015, 07:14:02 AM
Good news!!! They do seem to be super nice and accommodating. They probably slotted in someone in your slot.
One of the reasons I'm glad I got a direct flight. More money but worth it, IMO. Plus I get to ride KE's A380. 8-)
One of the reasons I'm glad I got a direct flight. More money but worth it, IMO. Plus I get to ride KE's A380. 8-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 12, 2015, 08:14:08 AM
Post by: anjaq on May 12, 2015, 08:14:08 AM
Good to hear they could reschedule your examination and surgery date. Probably someone elwe was available to fill the gap. I planned to arrive 2 days in advance when I went there, just in case of such hickups and also to get rid of some of the jetlag. And it was not a bad idea. one flight was delayed and we almost missed the connecting flight and in Bejing , the Chinese security people took over 2 hours to check us out, which almost led to problems as well.
kaybeccab - thanks for the explanation by a studies speech pathologist. It totally makes sense and is a good description of what we were already guessing - that the surgery more enables one to do something and that the brain does have to relearn a lot. Actually Dr Kim says that - the brain has to adjust to the new vocal chord configuration, hence the exercises are so important. I definitely can still use my old pitch and sometimes fall into it, but it is at the lowest of my vocal range and sounds all broken and hurts my throat. So Dr Kim actually told me to consciously use a higher speaking pitch. I hope my brain will get used to it soon, so I can just forget about this :) - This also explains why it is harder to get a good pitch increase if you are older. Your brain has had longer time to develop habits that have to be unlearned now.
kaybeccab - thanks for the explanation by a studies speech pathologist. It totally makes sense and is a good description of what we were already guessing - that the surgery more enables one to do something and that the brain does have to relearn a lot. Actually Dr Kim says that - the brain has to adjust to the new vocal chord configuration, hence the exercises are so important. I definitely can still use my old pitch and sometimes fall into it, but it is at the lowest of my vocal range and sounds all broken and hurts my throat. So Dr Kim actually told me to consciously use a higher speaking pitch. I hope my brain will get used to it soon, so I can just forget about this :) - This also explains why it is harder to get a good pitch increase if you are older. Your brain has had longer time to develop habits that have to be unlearned now.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on May 12, 2015, 11:03:31 AM
Post by: ReDucks on May 12, 2015, 11:03:31 AM
Speech therapy has turned out to be super important for me after my surgery. It pushes me to explore resonance and feminine pitch levels that are comfortable to me. For example, it was very tempting to want my voice to be 220hz since that is 'female', but my therapist has me staying closer to 175, so I have the 'head room' to raise my pitch when I ask a question. Sure, some girls talk like mickey mouse and are fine, my sister has that type of high voice, but it doesn't always work for everyone, and can come off as sounding false. Now that I'm getting used to 175, and using the melodic prosody speech patterns, it sounds WAY better than it used to. BTW, as my voice heals and pitch starts to raise, my therapist has me staying in pace with those changes - I practice now closer to 184-185 most of the time, though there are still days when 175 is where it's at.
Another issue I faced is that I'm older so my pitch is ingrained in my mind as 'sounding like me'. It's really hard to get out of that rut, but with my therapist helping me, it is getting easier to speak comfortably in the pitch the surgery gave me to use. Even then, I still seem to feel like my pitch is the same even though it isn't at all, but I have stumbled on a trick that seems to be really working. I do my vocal exercises in my bathroom where resonance is really obvious, and ... here's the tricky part ... I do them looking in the mirror with lipstick on - I see this feminine pitch coming out of my feminine lips and see me smile and interact with the mirror like it was someone I was talking to, and my brain starts to GET IT, that this pitch, this way of speaking is really mine. It may be the most effective thing I have ever done for my voice... it's all part of changing that habitual pitch and manner of speaking that Anja was speaking about. Give it a try if you don't believe me... I think you all will benefit from a little time in front of the mirror :) Hope this helps
Another issue I faced is that I'm older so my pitch is ingrained in my mind as 'sounding like me'. It's really hard to get out of that rut, but with my therapist helping me, it is getting easier to speak comfortably in the pitch the surgery gave me to use. Even then, I still seem to feel like my pitch is the same even though it isn't at all, but I have stumbled on a trick that seems to be really working. I do my vocal exercises in my bathroom where resonance is really obvious, and ... here's the tricky part ... I do them looking in the mirror with lipstick on - I see this feminine pitch coming out of my feminine lips and see me smile and interact with the mirror like it was someone I was talking to, and my brain starts to GET IT, that this pitch, this way of speaking is really mine. It may be the most effective thing I have ever done for my voice... it's all part of changing that habitual pitch and manner of speaking that Anja was speaking about. Give it a try if you don't believe me... I think you all will benefit from a little time in front of the mirror :) Hope this helps
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 12, 2015, 11:52:58 AM
Post by: barbie on May 12, 2015, 11:52:58 AM
Quote from: iKate on May 12, 2015, 07:14:02 AM
Plus I get to ride KE's A380. 8-)
Yes. A380 is a big air plane, and you may feel a little bit more roomy and comfortable even in economic seats.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on May 12, 2015, 11:54:42 AM
Post by: iKate on May 12, 2015, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: barbie on May 12, 2015, 11:52:58 AM
Yes. A380 is a big air plane, and you may feel a little bit more roomy and comfortable even in economic seats.
barbie~~
I wish I could go F or even prestige for this one. But I'll have to do with coach.
Either way I'm excited. I've never been to Asia and my mom is traveling with me so I have company.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 12, 2015, 12:04:08 PM
Post by: barbie on May 12, 2015, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 05:18:51 AM
Finally made it to the hotel. And got my consult rescheduled for tomorrow. :)
Under influence of typhoon Noul, it is gusty in Seoul (also in my hometown). It will be calm after the afternoon of Wednesday. Noul is technically a super-typhoon, and it is very unusual to see typhoons so early here in May.
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2015/05/12/typhoon-noul-approaches-mainland-japan/
And another typhoon is developing and approaching Japan.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2015/05/11/stunning-imagery-of-typhoon-noul-and-a-preview-of-the-next-pacific-powerhouse-dolphin/
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on May 12, 2015, 07:23:09 PM
Post by: kwala on May 12, 2015, 07:23:09 PM
Quote from: ReDucks on May 12, 2015, 11:03:31 AMVery interesting stuff. It must indeed be very jarring for your brain to hear a voice that sounds unlike the one it has been hearing for your entire life. I think you have a great speech therapist, your training methods are very creative and I think they will continue to bear great results.
Speech therapy has turned out to be super important for me after my surgery. It pushes me to explore resonance and feminine pitch levels that are comfortable to me. For example, it was very tempting to want my voice to be 220hz since that is 'female', but my therapist has me staying closer to 175, so I have the 'head room' to raise my pitch when I ask a question. Sure, some girls talk like mickey mouse and are fine, my sister has that type of high voice, but it doesn't always work for everyone, and can come off as sounding false. Now that I'm getting used to 175, and using the melodic prosody speech patterns, it sounds WAY better than it used to. BTW, as my voice heals and pitch starts to raise, my therapist has me staying in pace with those changes - I practice now closer to 184-185 most of the time, though there are still days when 175 is where it's at.
Another issue I faced is that I'm older so my pitch is ingrained in my mind as 'sounding like me'. It's really hard to get out of that rut, but with my therapist helping me, it is getting easier to speak comfortably in the pitch the surgery gave me to use. Even then, I still seem to feel like my pitch is the same even though it isn't at all, but I have stumbled on a trick that seems to be really working. I do my vocal exercises in my bathroom where resonance is really obvious, and ... here's the tricky part ... I do them looking in the mirror with lipstick on - I see this feminine pitch coming out of my feminine lips and see me smile and interact with the mirror like it was someone I was talking to, and my brain starts to GET IT, that this pitch, this way of speaking is really mine. It may be the most effective thing I have ever done for my voice... it's all part of changing that habitual pitch and manner of speaking that Anja was speaking about. Give it a try if you don't believe me... I think you all will benefit from a little time in front of the mirror :) Hope this helps
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 09:16:19 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 09:16:19 PM
So far so good. My consult is almost done. Very nice office space. And Jessie is super nice and friendly. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 11:09:47 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 11:09:47 PM
Got done with Dr. Kim. Interesting to see the video of Jenny not on YouTube. :D
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 07:32:54 AM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 07:32:54 AM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 12, 2015, 05:18:51 AM
Finally made it to the hotel. And got my consult rescheduled for tomorrow. :)
Can I ask you which hotel you chose? I'm trying to decide!
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 13, 2015, 12:20:58 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 13, 2015, 12:20:58 PM
Originally I was going to use the Princess Hotel as is is only about a 10 min walk form the clinic, but they are remodeling right now so I couldn't. I've ended up staying at Phil House. It's not too bad. Not as expensive as I thought it would be. Fairly nice and spacious, close to a street that it is easy to get a taxi on. A convenience store near the front. And a general merchandise store just down the street and across a larger street. Just remember to bring a towel if you are used to large fluffy ones. Always know where your towel is. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 02:59:28 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 13, 2015, 12:20:58 PM
Originally I was going to use the Princess Hotel as is is only about a 10 min walk form the clinic, but they are remodeling right now so I couldn't. I've ended up staying at Phil House. It's not too bad. Not as expensive as I thought it would be. Fairly nice and spacious, close to a street that it is easy to get a taxi on. A convenience store near the front. And a general merchandise store just down the street and across a larger street. Just remember to bring a towel if you are used to large fluffy ones. Always know where your towel is. :)
Do I need to take 42 towels?
I wonder if you know when the Princess will be open for business again? It sounds ideal for me though I couldn't find a web site for them.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 13, 2015, 03:50:48 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 13, 2015, 03:50:48 PM
I don't think they have an on-line presence. My original reservation there was made by Jessie from the clinic. I did find them (I think) on Trip Adviser though.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294197-d1175419-Reviews-Hotel_Princess-Seoul.html
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294197-d1175419-Reviews-Hotel_Princess-Seoul.html
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 05:11:15 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 05:11:15 PM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 13, 2015, 03:50:48 PM
I don't think they have an on-line presence. My original reservation there was made by Jessie from the clinic. I did find them (I think) on Trip Adviser though.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g294197-d1175419-Reviews-Hotel_Princess-Seoul.html
Thanks. I've emailed the Philhouse to see what their current rates are. My only concern there is the amount of travelling I'll have to do to get to the clinic.
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 13, 2015, 05:23:05 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 13, 2015, 05:23:05 PM
Yeson is about a 10 minute walk from the Apgujeoung subway station. As long as where you're staying is close to a subway station, its extremely easy to get around. I don't think I've used a taxi once since I've gotten here. The subway here has to be one of the best in the world, its pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 05:26:07 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 05:26:07 PM
Quote from: Zoe Snow on May 13, 2015, 05:23:05 PMThanks Zoe, that's reassuring. Are destinations in dual Korean/English on the signage and trains?
Yeson is about a 10 minute walk from the Apgujeoung subway station. As long as where you're staying is close to a subway station, its extremely easy to get around. I don't think I've used a taxi once since I've gotten here. The subway here has to be one of the best in the world, its pretty amazing.
Sarah
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on May 13, 2015, 06:35:48 PM
Post by: iKate on May 13, 2015, 06:35:48 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on May 13, 2015, 05:26:07 PM
Thanks Zoe, that's reassuring. Are destinations in dual Korean/English on the signage and trains?
Sarah
Subway is in English and Korean.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on May 13, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
Post by: iKate on May 13, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
So I'm wondering how hard it is to get to Costco there. I'm thinking I might just buy some groceries and cook instead of blowing money on fast food.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 13, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 13, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
You'll find English on a lot of the street signs here, and its on just about everything in the Subway. That said, do yourself a favor and try learning some 한굴 (Hangul). Its their alphabet, and its all phonetical. I picked it up pretty easily myself. If you have a week or two, you should be able to get familiar with most of it, just spending a little bit of time each day. While you can get around alright without it, its made my experience here more enjoyable. It feels slightly less foreign here now and its fun being able to sound out what is written everywhere. There are also a lot of English loan words used, so its extra fun when you read a sign and figure out its actually mostly English, just written in Hangul. Knowing Hangul also saved me some time in one of the subway stations, I was trying to figure out which direction I needed to go, and the huge map on the wall where I was at only had things in Hangul. I could have found another map with English on it if I had to, but it was really nice to figure out where I needed to go using the map that was only in Korean.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2015, 04:26:28 AM
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2015, 04:26:28 AM
Quote from: Zoe Snow on May 13, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
You'll find English on a lot of the street signs here, and its on just about everything in the Subway. That said, do yourself a favor and try learning some 한굴 (Hangul). Its their alphabet, and its all phonetical. I picked it up pretty easily myself. If you have a week or two, you should be able to get familiar with most of it, just spending a little bit of time each day. While you can get around alright without it, its made my experience here more enjoyable. It feels slightly less foreign here now and its fun being able to sound out what is written everywhere. There are also a lot of English loan words used, so its extra fun when you read a sign and figure out its actually mostly English, just written in Hangul. Knowing Hangul also saved me some time in one of the subway stations, I was trying to figure out which direction I needed to go, and the huge map on the wall where I was at only had things in Hangul. I could have found another map with English on it if I had to, but it was really nice to figure out where I needed to go using the map that was only in Korean.
Yes. It is not difficult to read Hangul. You may print or save the following image in your smartphone.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F5%2F5d%2FHangul_Pronunciation_II.png&hash=71361ab59e868649fb1f42671626bac19e0c889a)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2015, 04:34:04 AM
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2015, 04:34:04 AM
Quote from: iKate on May 13, 2015, 06:35:48 PM
Subway is in English and Korean.
Also in Japanese and Chinese, too.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2015, 04:43:12 AM
Post by: barbie on May 14, 2015, 04:43:12 AM
Quote from: iKate on May 13, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
So I'm wondering how hard it is to get to Costco there. I'm thinking I might just buy some groceries and cook instead of blowing money on fast food.
There are about 10 Costco branches in Korea, but you should have a car to drive there, which is not desirable for buying small amount of groceries. You can purchase some vegetables and other raw food even in any convenient store. More food items are available at some large stores such as E-mart or Home plus, which are like Wal-mart or Target of the U.S. You may ask the nearby locations in the hotel. Also, E-mart or Home plus are a nice place for shopping, too, as they sell many clothes and other beauty items at reasonable price and nice quality.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 14, 2015, 04:51:13 AM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 14, 2015, 04:51:13 AM
Yes, the subway was really good, and the taxi wasn't too expensive to me, each round trip has been about 20,000 Won.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 14, 2015, 08:11:51 AM
Post by: anjaq on May 14, 2015, 08:11:51 AM
You can buy veggies and meat at local markets and dont need a big supermarket. Most shops in the city seem to be small and partially on the street, but they are ok, I think. Meat is expensive though. Also European style stuff is expensive - things like sandwhich bread, sliced cheese, ham, pizza - we paid a fortune on that initially because we figured we want to be able to make sandwhiches for day trips - it is much cheaper to just buy some of the fingerfood they sell everywhere on the streets and for cooking, one probably should stick to local recipes with local ingredients ;)
learning come hangul was fun - Whenever I was on the subway I was figuring out the dual language signs and interpreting how the signs are set up. I think I knew about half of the meanings within a week just by looking at the subway signs and could read some of the signs phonetically.
learning come hangul was fun - Whenever I was on the subway I was figuring out the dual language signs and interpreting how the signs are set up. I think I knew about half of the meanings within a week just by looking at the subway signs and could read some of the signs phonetically.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 14, 2015, 02:14:34 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 14, 2015, 02:14:34 PM
I'm so disappointed.
Jessie offered me a cancellation for the end of May and I accepted. I even booked 11 days at the PhilHouse but then she told me that the original client had changed their mind, so now nothing until July.
It will be really difficult to get my voice into shape for when I start teaching in September and July is right in the middle of the monsoon. It's not great.
Sarah.
Jessie offered me a cancellation for the end of May and I accepted. I even booked 11 days at the PhilHouse but then she told me that the original client had changed their mind, so now nothing until July.
It will be really difficult to get my voice into shape for when I start teaching in September and July is right in the middle of the monsoon. It's not great.
Sarah.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on May 14, 2015, 09:05:29 PM
Post by: iKate on May 14, 2015, 09:05:29 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on May 14, 2015, 02:14:34 PM
I'm so disappointed.
Jessie offered me a cancellation for the end of May and I accepted. I even booked 11 days at the PhilHouse but then she told me that the original client had changed their mind, so now nothing until July.
It will be really difficult to get my voice into shape for when I start teaching in September and July is right in the middle of the monsoon. It's not great.
Sarah.
Yeah they are busy. July is not too bad. I booked 4 months out. But I wanted to do this over the summer when my kids are not in school.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 15, 2015, 05:12:49 AM
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 15, 2015, 05:12:49 AM
Had my followup appointment yesterday. Almost missed it, I thought it was today for some reason. My phone reminded me 10 minutes before the appointment, at which point I started freaking out and then rushed towards Yeson. Took a taxi for the first time to get there. Got there about 20 minutes late, but they were still able to fit me in, thankfully.
I was told everything appears to be healing just fine. They did the botox injection as well. They gave me an additional 5 days worth of the medications they had started me on initially. I don't think this was normal, they just want me to be able to kick this cold first before I go off of it.
I saw a couple other foreigners there while I was there. Curious if I saw someone from here while I was there.
One week down, 7 more to go. Should be a fun time. I'm actually looking forward to getting back home and subjecting all of my coworkers to a silent version of me. Curious to see how they handle it. Before I left they were asking me if I was going to learn some sign language. I thought that was pretty funny and short sighted on their part, whats the point of me learning sign language if they don't know any themselves? :-\
I was told everything appears to be healing just fine. They did the botox injection as well. They gave me an additional 5 days worth of the medications they had started me on initially. I don't think this was normal, they just want me to be able to kick this cold first before I go off of it.
I saw a couple other foreigners there while I was there. Curious if I saw someone from here while I was there.
One week down, 7 more to go. Should be a fun time. I'm actually looking forward to getting back home and subjecting all of my coworkers to a silent version of me. Curious to see how they handle it. Before I left they were asking me if I was going to learn some sign language. I thought that was pretty funny and short sighted on their part, whats the point of me learning sign language if they don't know any themselves? :-\
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 15, 2015, 12:55:41 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 15, 2015, 12:55:41 PM
Lol, yes I thought of learning some signs languare parts too, but those that I learned , no one understood.
I foound being temporary mute a very interesting experience. I used a lot more eye contact, facial expressions and such - so the way of communication was quite different and somewhat closer and more intimate to other people. The point I got frustrated was however when I had to communicate complex issues, work related stuff for example. I had to type a lot and often people were already on the next topic when I was ready with typing. Sigh - so eventually I was glad to be able to use my voice again.
Still it was interesting
I foound being temporary mute a very interesting experience. I used a lot more eye contact, facial expressions and such - so the way of communication was quite different and somewhat closer and more intimate to other people. The point I got frustrated was however when I had to communicate complex issues, work related stuff for example. I had to type a lot and often people were already on the next topic when I was ready with typing. Sigh - so eventually I was glad to be able to use my voice again.
Still it was interesting
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 19, 2015, 07:08:13 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 19, 2015, 07:08:13 PM
Almost ready to go home. Follow up is this afternoon. Hope everything is good. Had a hard time not clearing my throat. :(
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 19, 2015, 11:44:18 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on May 19, 2015, 11:44:18 PM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 19, 2015, 07:08:13 PM
Almost ready to go home. Follow up is this afternoon. Hope everything is good. Had a hard time not clearing my throat. :(
I had similar issues while I was there, I caught a cold right after the surgery. As long as you aren't feeling any pain, you will likely be fine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: buffmage5 on May 20, 2015, 12:22:33 AM
Post by: buffmage5 on May 20, 2015, 12:22:33 AM
Nope, no pain, just some throat soreness.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 20, 2015, 12:30:41 AM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 20, 2015, 12:30:41 AM
Quote from: buffmage5 on May 20, 2015, 12:22:33 AM
Nope, no pain, just some throat soreness.
That was strange. I was supposed to be logged in with my forum account.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 20, 2015, 01:18:08 AM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 20, 2015, 01:18:08 AM
Yay, everything looks good. Now wait for an injection and then back to the hotel.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 21, 2015, 01:05:52 PM
Post by: Cadence Jean on May 21, 2015, 01:05:52 PM
Glad to hear you're doing well, Sunhawk! What does the bottox injection do?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 21, 2015, 04:04:14 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 21, 2015, 04:04:14 PM
Thanks. :)
It is intended to treat tremor. How Dr. Kim expanded it to me, it relaxes the muscles that control the vocal folds and gives your brain time to get used to the new arrangement and eliminate the tremor.
It is intended to treat tremor. How Dr. Kim expanded it to me, it relaxes the muscles that control the vocal folds and gives your brain time to get used to the new arrangement and eliminate the tremor.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 21, 2015, 04:30:54 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 21, 2015, 04:30:54 PM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 21, 2015, 04:04:14 PM
Thanks. :)
It is intended to treat tremor. How Dr. Kim expanded it to me, it relaxes the muscles that control the vocal folds and gives your brain time to get used to the new arrangement and eliminate the tremor.
Wow so he said the botox can actually cure the tremor? Maybe he has found something new.
When I asked him about it (after my surgery 2 years ago), he said the botox would need to be repeated every 3 months in order to keep the benefit of treating the tremor. As in, only a temporary bandaid.
I definitely have a tremor, but luckily it's not enough to affect my voice in a way that limits my passability. If I was trying to be a singer, though, I might consider keeping up with the injections.
Over the past year my voice has relaxed quite a bit and volume has returned, so maybe tremor is indeed sorting itself out somewhat. My range has dropped slightly, too (by two wholetones) but it feels like that is mostly due to discontinuing the vocal exercises that I have lost some of my upper upper range. Upper range limit is still higher than it was before the surgery :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 21, 2015, 04:38:29 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 21, 2015, 04:38:29 PM
Well, thinking about it, I don't think he said "eliminate". But tremor was mentioned many times in connection with the botox injection. That and the"remapping" of control of my vocal folds, which is what I construed as the eliminate part.
So that was the way I interrupted what he was telling me. :)
So that was the way I interrupted what he was telling me. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 21, 2015, 05:13:54 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 21, 2015, 05:13:54 PM
As I understood it when Dr Kim explained it to me: I have a minor tremor. His approach would be to use Botox to temporarily reduce it, thereby allowing my brain to train itself to use the voice without the tremor and with some luck it might stick. He was telling me that I might need another botox injection after it has worn off, but more likely it would be enough to use the pills he prescribed for 3 months, they seem to have a similar effect. I should train the voice in that time to get used to the new voice. My thoughts there are, that the long term misuse of my voice to make it sound more feminine has lead to that tremor and since the source of it is gone now, I just have to unlearn the bad neural patterns.
I still wonder though if my voice is better now than without the botox or if it will be better when the botox is gone. My voice therapist thinks that I will gain more abilities with my voice once I can use all the muscles again
Did your average or comfortable pitch still change in the long run or was it really finished after the 6 or 9 month mark?
I still wonder though if my voice is better now than without the botox or if it will be better when the botox is gone. My voice therapist thinks that I will gain more abilities with my voice once I can use all the muscles again
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 21, 2015, 04:30:54 PMThats very cool. My upper limit is now about two whole tones lower than pre op, but it was admittedly very crazy high before the surgery, so the loss is not so tragic (dropped from about 900-something Hz to 760 Hz as of 11 weeks post op). Jenny - how long did it take you before you reached the highest upper range and surpassed the pre op range?
Over the past year my voice has relaxed quite a bit and volume has returned, so maybe tremor is indeed sorting itself out somewhat. My range has dropped slightly, too (by two wholetones) but it feels like that is mostly due to discontinuing the vocal exercises that I have lost some of my upper upper range. Upper range limit is still higher than it was before the surgery :)
Did your average or comfortable pitch still change in the long run or was it really finished after the 6 or 9 month mark?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ly on May 21, 2015, 05:48:39 PM
Post by: ly on May 21, 2015, 05:48:39 PM
I've been lurking on Susans for about 5 years now and finally decided to get an account!
I finally had my VFS surgery at Yeson yesterday (May 21 2015). Thank you Jenny for starting this thread (and all the others who participated) for helping people like me find out about it! <3
The people at Yeson were great although there was a slight language barrier. On the consult day, we did many tests with a lot of equipment: flexible nasal endoscopy, rigid stroboscopy, video recording of rainbow passage, speaking into sm48, oral air pressure test with pneumotach mask and straw (Phonatory Aerodynamic System), blood test, ekg, x-ray. Doing all these tests made me feel more confident that they knew well what they were doing.
I was surprised at how little pain there was. When I went into the surgery room, Dr. Kim and the anesthesiologist tapped on my shoulder and told me it would be okay. They put the anaesthetic mask on my and told me to breathe deeply twice. Next thing I knew, I woke up in the recovery bed. I only felt a bit of tongue and throat soreness.
This was how the surgery day went:
There was also another girl getting surgery that day too (for VFS also, I suspect, due to our almost-identical schedules and followup day). I wish I could've said hi to her somehow (maybe she reads this).
Dr. Kim also said I had a lot of vocal tremors which prevented me from producing good resonance and clear formants. He said that with botox, it would relax my vocal folds so that my brain adapts to the new way of speaking without tremors. After the effects of botox wears out in 3-4 months, he says he will get a voice sample from me and see whether I should get more botox or just take a medication that reduces vocal tremors. From what I understand that he said, it's mostly for retraining the brain.
Also, on the first day after surgery back at the hotel, my sister woke up and startled me. I tried to say something but my throat just tightened and nothing came out. I hope I didn't break anything .. eek.
I finally had my VFS surgery at Yeson yesterday (May 21 2015). Thank you Jenny for starting this thread (and all the others who participated) for helping people like me find out about it! <3
The people at Yeson were great although there was a slight language barrier. On the consult day, we did many tests with a lot of equipment: flexible nasal endoscopy, rigid stroboscopy, video recording of rainbow passage, speaking into sm48, oral air pressure test with pneumotach mask and straw (Phonatory Aerodynamic System), blood test, ekg, x-ray. Doing all these tests made me feel more confident that they knew well what they were doing.
I was surprised at how little pain there was. When I went into the surgery room, Dr. Kim and the anesthesiologist tapped on my shoulder and told me it would be okay. They put the anaesthetic mask on my and told me to breathe deeply twice. Next thing I knew, I woke up in the recovery bed. I only felt a bit of tongue and throat soreness.
This was how the surgery day went:
- 8:00 - arrive, sign forms and get ready
- 10ish - surgery
- 12 - woke up on recovery bed
- 12:40 - water
- 14:40 - soup (tasted great)
- 15:20 - ice cream
- 17:00 - checkup to see how things went
- 17:30 - go home
There was also another girl getting surgery that day too (for VFS also, I suspect, due to our almost-identical schedules and followup day). I wish I could've said hi to her somehow (maybe she reads this).
Dr. Kim also said I had a lot of vocal tremors which prevented me from producing good resonance and clear formants. He said that with botox, it would relax my vocal folds so that my brain adapts to the new way of speaking without tremors. After the effects of botox wears out in 3-4 months, he says he will get a voice sample from me and see whether I should get more botox or just take a medication that reduces vocal tremors. From what I understand that he said, it's mostly for retraining the brain.
Also, on the first day after surgery back at the hotel, my sister woke up and startled me. I tried to say something but my throat just tightened and nothing came out. I hope I didn't break anything .. eek.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 21, 2015, 06:00:58 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 21, 2015, 06:00:58 PM
Hehe - sounds just like how I remember it - including the attempts to speak on the first morning being still half awake. I actually did say a few words, but if there is no big pain now, it did not break anything. I panicked and asked Jessie in an email but she said this happens to many patients, just take care not to repeat it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ly on May 21, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
Post by: ly on May 21, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
Ok thanks for the reassurance anjaq :) I also tried to say something after waking up on the recovery bed but I was fine in the checkup after. It seems like something that happens to most people.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 21, 2015, 07:04:48 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 21, 2015, 07:04:48 PM
Apparently I coughed like there is no tomorrow when I was in the wake up phase before I was aware of it :o - the damage seems not too big though - nothing ripped, but I sometimes wonder if my progress would have been faster and more pronounced if that did not happen... But a few words by accident - thats not a big deal apparently as long as its not something that happens repeatedly.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on May 21, 2015, 07:24:42 PM
Post by: Jennygirl on May 21, 2015, 07:24:42 PM
Anja-
I believe I surpassed preop range at around 3-4 month mark, and it continued to slowly climb during following months. Highest pitch capability was probably around month 6-9 when I was still focusing on exercises a lot of the time.
As I stopped doing the exercises as well as focusing on voice in general, the top range started dropping a little bit because I didn't have a reason to use it without the exercises keeping things in tip top shape (just like any other muscle, really). I guess only when I laugh do I ever go up that high.
Now, I do not focus on my voice at all. To me it just is what it is: my voice. I used to worry about if I was passing every time I used it, which was indeed crucial because I focused on learning new ways of speaking and adapted my brain in a lot of ways. I think I was also subconsciously working out the upper range more than the lower during that time. But, I am glad to be through all of that and getting back to life irrespective of gender change.
My comfortable speaking pitch is lower than that of my 2 and 7 month videos, probably by at least 10-20hz if not more in certain scenarios- such as when I am talking to a person that knows me well. I noticed at some point that every single one of my cis female friends tend to do this as well (lowering voice pitch around people they know well), so I do not worry about it. Everything feels natural, and I am able to pass like no tomorrow on the phone, in the drive-through, or loudly. The only time my voice was misgendered after the surgery was around month two in the drive through after a night of staying up too late.
After almost two years of being properly gendered, you kind of forget that it's even possible to be misgendered due to voice. As with most other transition-related things, I think a lot is to do with building confidence interacting with people in your preferred gender presentation. I know it didn't happen as a result of the surgery alone, a lot of it was also me working hard to retrain. But it did seem to come rather naturally. At no point was I ever overly discouraged, and I think that had a lot to do with it as well.
I believe I surpassed preop range at around 3-4 month mark, and it continued to slowly climb during following months. Highest pitch capability was probably around month 6-9 when I was still focusing on exercises a lot of the time.
As I stopped doing the exercises as well as focusing on voice in general, the top range started dropping a little bit because I didn't have a reason to use it without the exercises keeping things in tip top shape (just like any other muscle, really). I guess only when I laugh do I ever go up that high.
Now, I do not focus on my voice at all. To me it just is what it is: my voice. I used to worry about if I was passing every time I used it, which was indeed crucial because I focused on learning new ways of speaking and adapted my brain in a lot of ways. I think I was also subconsciously working out the upper range more than the lower during that time. But, I am glad to be through all of that and getting back to life irrespective of gender change.
My comfortable speaking pitch is lower than that of my 2 and 7 month videos, probably by at least 10-20hz if not more in certain scenarios- such as when I am talking to a person that knows me well. I noticed at some point that every single one of my cis female friends tend to do this as well (lowering voice pitch around people they know well), so I do not worry about it. Everything feels natural, and I am able to pass like no tomorrow on the phone, in the drive-through, or loudly. The only time my voice was misgendered after the surgery was around month two in the drive through after a night of staying up too late.
After almost two years of being properly gendered, you kind of forget that it's even possible to be misgendered due to voice. As with most other transition-related things, I think a lot is to do with building confidence interacting with people in your preferred gender presentation. I know it didn't happen as a result of the surgery alone, a lot of it was also me working hard to retrain. But it did seem to come rather naturally. At no point was I ever overly discouraged, and I think that had a lot to do with it as well.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 22, 2015, 07:51:58 AM
Post by: anjaq on May 22, 2015, 07:51:58 AM
Hi Jenny
Thanks for the info. I am now at month 3 and should definitely do more exercises to increase my upper range a bit. If it really goes up by 2 more tones until the month 6 or 9, I woul dbe able to sing a high C which would be crazy. I doubt it though, but thats ok.
That range really is only used when laughing or screaming or giggling, as you said. Maybe I could try to sing in those ranges ...
Did you in the long run have the 75Hz increase in the average speaking voice that Dr Kim usually describes to be possible?
Awesome! :)
Its kind of funny, I sometimes feel like I am in a reversed voice break as it was in puberty. I usually use a higher pitch and good resonance, but at times it can break into that bad resonance and lower pitch. It was like that when I was 14 or so, I guess - but after that it got stuck more and more in the lower part, whil enow it is the reverse and I am sticking to the higher part more and more.
Thanks for the info. I am now at month 3 and should definitely do more exercises to increase my upper range a bit. If it really goes up by 2 more tones until the month 6 or 9, I woul dbe able to sing a high C which would be crazy. I doubt it though, but thats ok.
That range really is only used when laughing or screaming or giggling, as you said. Maybe I could try to sing in those ranges ...
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 21, 2015, 07:24:42 PMduring which time was that? I feel like I am concentrating a lot on my voice now, at 3 month post op, I still seem to be nervous about it, sometimes I drop very deep or hit bad resonances - so I do a lot of voice work for myself , I guess. I hope this will be over in any reasonale timeframe... sigh - after all the point of the VFS was to get rid of that self-controlling of the voice.
Now, I do not focus on my voice at all. To me it just is what it is: my voice. I used to worry about if I was passing every time I used it, which was indeed crucial because I focused on learning new ways of speaking and adapted my brain in a lot of ways. I think I was also subconsciously working out the upper range more than the lower during that time.
QuoteMy comfortable speaking pitch is lower than that of my 2 and 7 month videos, probably by at least 10-20hz if not more in certain scenarios- such as when I am talking to a person that knows me well.Oh - I hope the reverse will happen to me since my pitch really is not yet where I was hoping it to be and where Dr Kim said it will be. Its about 2 full tones higher than my pre op voice - if it drops by 20 Hz it will be almost the same again :-\ - but he said it should increase between month 2 and 4 which is about now... Definitely my voice is lower among friends, too. Also its lower in german compared to english.
Did you in the long run have the 75Hz increase in the average speaking voice that Dr Kim usually describes to be possible?
QuoteEverything feels natural, and I am able to pass like no tomorrow on the phone, in the drive-through, or loudly. After almost two years of being properly gendered, you kind of forget that it's even possible to be misgendered due to voice.
Awesome! :)
QuoteAs with most other transition-related things, I think a lot is to do with building confidence interacting with people in your preferred gender presentation. I know it didn't happen as a result of the surgery alone, a lot of it was also me working hard to retrain. But it did seem to come rather naturally. At no point was I ever overly discouraged, and I think that had a lot to do with it as well.Hmm , yes you are right. I feel encouraged now, knowing I cannot go into certain voice areas that were possible before and that calms me down a lot. But sometimes I do feel a bit frustrated when I wake up and have the impression that my voice is very low and checking on my phone it will also say it is at a D or E - which is far from the G or A that I was kind of aiming for. Once I was even down to an A - shudder. Usually doing the exercises helps at these moments though. Also at the low notes like C, A or D in the lower speaking range, my voice breaks a bit apart as well.
Its kind of funny, I sometimes feel like I am in a reversed voice break as it was in puberty. I usually use a higher pitch and good resonance, but at times it can break into that bad resonance and lower pitch. It was like that when I was 14 or so, I guess - but after that it got stuck more and more in the lower part, whil enow it is the reverse and I am sticking to the higher part more and more.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 22, 2015, 04:21:20 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 22, 2015, 04:21:20 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on May 21, 2015, 07:24:42 PMHello Jenny.
After almost two years of being properly gendered, you kind of forget that it's even possible to be misgendered due to voice. As with most other transition-related things, I think a lot is to do with building confidence interacting with people in your preferred gender presentation. I know it didn't happen as a result of the surgery alone, a lot of it was also me working hard to retrain. But it did seem to come rather naturally. At no point was I ever overly discouraged, and I think that had a lot to do with it as well.
It's great to see you on here again; you're a real pioneer! I knew about Yeson a long time ago but I'd heard such bad things about voice surgery in general (mickey mouse etc) that I wasn't ready to do anything at the time. It took someone brave like you to leap without being able to hear many voice samples before the rest of us could go forward.
I'm finally going in July.
What you were saying about confidence really rings true to me. I transitioned much longer ago than almost anyone on Susan's and I trained my voice and just forgot about it. My general appearance, height (5,5) and confidence carry me through life with few passing problems (and I'm no oil painting by any means!), but sometimes the phone is a different matter and I have occasionally to correct people.
I'm hoping Dr Kim's procedure will put this right, but as I have been using my trained voice for an extremely long time (think decades) I'm not sure how hard it will be to adjust to a new voice, and it's a bit scary. Sometimes I think I should just go with what I have, as in 99% of situations, it's fine. I can't scream or sing though, That's much harder. I'd really love to sing, and I'm hoping to be able to relaxed in my voice,and never worry.
Do you think I'm doing the wrong thing in going to Yeson?
Thanks for being a pioneer!
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on May 22, 2015, 04:39:21 PM
Post by: anjaq on May 22, 2015, 04:39:21 PM
I think using a trained voice for long time is not an obstacle. From how I feel it, it is helping me as much as it is causing me confusion. I have used a trained voice for 17 years after all (how much was it for you, Sarah?).
Some things about the trained voice are helpful (resonance, prosody, melody, that sort of thing) and others are not helping ( forcing pitch up, using force or tension in any way). But I think with time one can relax into the new voice and some things are just a lot easier to do than without the surgery.
But maybe Jenny can give her long term perspective on that, although she did AFAIK not have such a long time of using a trained voice before the surgery
Some things about the trained voice are helpful (resonance, prosody, melody, that sort of thing) and others are not helping ( forcing pitch up, using force or tension in any way). But I think with time one can relax into the new voice and some things are just a lot easier to do than without the surgery.
But maybe Jenny can give her long term perspective on that, although she did AFAIK not have such a long time of using a trained voice before the surgery
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on May 22, 2015, 05:52:04 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on May 22, 2015, 05:52:04 PM
Quote from: anjaq on May 22, 2015, 04:39:21 PM
I think using a trained voice for long time is not an obstacle. From how I feel it, it is helping me as much as it is causing me confusion. I have used a trained voice for 17 years after all (how much was it for you, Sarah?).
Double that, and you're getting close!
I depend on my voice to teach. I hope I'm not doing the wrong thing!
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on May 24, 2015, 10:22:59 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on May 24, 2015, 10:22:59 PM
Quote from: ly on May 21, 2015, 05:48:39 PM
I've been lurking on Susans for about 5 years now and finally decided to get an account!
I finally had my VFS surgery at Yeson yesterday (May 21 2015). Thank you Jenny for starting this thread (and all the others who participated) for helping people like me find out about it! <3 <snip>.
That was the day I flew back to the US. I'm pretty sure I heard the heart monitor I heard while waiting to use their shuttle van must have been you then. Hope all is going well for you. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ly on May 25, 2015, 06:30:03 PM
Post by: ly on May 25, 2015, 06:30:03 PM
Quote from: Sunhawk on May 24, 2015, 10:22:59 PM
That was the day I flew back to the US. I'm pretty sure I heard the heart monitor I heard while waiting to use their shuttle van must have been you then. Hope all is going well for you. :)
Oh cool! It's such a small world. I hope your recovery is going well too! Time flies by so quickly and I have to go home soon x.x. I'm ambivalent about time passing because being on voice rest feels so relaxing to me. But at the same time, I'm excited for when I can start practicing more.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kaybeccab on June 04, 2015, 04:19:31 AM
Post by: kaybeccab on June 04, 2015, 04:19:31 AM
Quote from: anjaq on May 12, 2015, 08:14:08 AM
Good to hear they could reschedule your examination and surgery date. Probably someone elwe was available to fill the gap. I planned to arrive 2 days in advance when I went there, just in case of such hickups and also to get rid of some of the jetlag. And it was not a bad idea. one flight was delayed and we almost missed the connecting flight and in Bejing , the Chinese security people took over 2 hours to check us out, which almost led to problems as well.
kaybeccab - thanks for the explanation by a studies speech pathologist. It totally makes sense and is a good description of what we were already guessing - that the surgery more enables one to do something and that the brain does have to relearn a lot. Actually Dr Kim says that - the brain has to adjust to the new vocal chord configuration, hence the exercises are so important. I definitely can still use my old pitch and sometimes fall into it, but it is at the lowest of my vocal range and sounds all broken and hurts my throat. So Dr Kim actually told me to consciously use a higher speaking pitch. I hope my brain will get used to it soon, so I can just forget about this :) - This also explains why it is harder to get a good pitch increase if you are older. Your brain has had longer time to develop habits that have to be unlearned now.
This is probably why a lot of girls report no change. Even though their range has been shifted upwards, where their brain puts their voice is still within the range, so their brains default to it. The interesting thing about how this works is that it's more than possible for someone to go their entire life unaware that the surgery worked perfectly, thinking it changed nothing or was unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on June 04, 2015, 07:43:40 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on June 04, 2015, 07:43:40 PM
I just passed the 4 week mark, which means I can start talking a little bit now. I recorded the rainbow passage. I could tell that was all my voice was able to handle right now. I was trying to talk as relaxed as possible, and I felt like that was as low as I could go right now. Praat said the average was at 180 Hz, but it started out around 196 Hz.
https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/4weeks (https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/4weeks)
https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/4weeks (https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/4weeks)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 05, 2015, 05:47:12 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 05, 2015, 05:47:12 AM
Wow, that sounds a lot cleaner and clearer than when I tried this after 4 weeks. Seems you are healing well...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jennygirl on June 05, 2015, 05:48:44 AM
Post by: Jennygirl on June 05, 2015, 05:48:44 AM
Sounding really great Zoe!
You must be floored with your results so far :) Congrats!
You must be floored with your results so far :) Congrats!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 05, 2015, 05:52:06 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 05, 2015, 05:52:06 AM
Quote from: kaybeccab on June 04, 2015, 04:19:31 AM
This is probably why a lot of girls report no change. Even though their range has been shifted upwards, where their brain puts their voice is still within the range, so their brains default to it. The interesting thing about how this works is that it's more than possible for someone to go their entire life unaware that the surgery worked perfectly, thinking it changed nothing or was unsuccessful.
Well I am not even sure if the range shifts that much. I can go almost as low as I could pre op and almost as high as I could back then as well. But the comfort zone seems to have shifted up by a bit. Its a bit hard to find though, which is a good pitch for me now. I am struggling a bit because most pitches feel like I am "doing something" and not be relaxed. I would love to find some exercises that make you find your optimal pitch ... maybe meditation or Yoga and then doing voice exercises after that when being totally relaxed?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: thegreenrabbit on June 05, 2015, 10:51:35 AM
Post by: thegreenrabbit on June 05, 2015, 10:51:35 AM
Quote from: anjaq on June 05, 2015, 05:52:06 AM
Well I am not even sure if the range shifts that much. I can go almost as low as I could pre op and almost as high as I could back then as well. But the comfort zone seems to have shifted up by a bit.
I agree with. I think it sums up the benefits of this VFS.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on June 05, 2015, 05:22:32 PM
Post by: Zoe Snow on June 05, 2015, 05:22:32 PM
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 05, 2015, 05:48:44 AM
Sounding really great Zoe!
You must be floored with your results so far :) Congrats!
Yeah, I am completely blown away by the change so far. I can tell its going to take a little getting used to. What I hear when I speak isn't what I'm expecting to hear. Its so odd. It also feels like I have a very narrow band where where my voice sounds fine. If I stray too high or too low from that, my voice just starts to fall apart. Can't wait to start the vocal exercises in a month and really see where things go.
For comparison, I'm adding a couple recordings I did prior to going to Yeson. I wasn't able to get my natural voice back down to where it was originally for this recording. I think I dropped it down to around 150 Hz for that recording, which is roughly what Yeson said my voice was when I was there. I do know that originally my voice was around 120 Hz before I started working on my voice. My trained voice at that time was around 208 Hz, though when I was at Yeson, they said my trained voice was around 185 Hz.
https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/trained-voice (https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/trained-voice)
https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/natural-voice (https://soundcloud.com/zoe-snow/natural-voice)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 06, 2015, 04:28:33 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 06, 2015, 04:28:33 AM
Thats cool. I hear the same change I heard in most, including me - it is a bit higher in pitch, basically in the trained pre op range and the "male edge" is gone. I do however think that the assessment is right, the untrained voice sounds to me like a 150 Hz and the trained voice is below 200 Hz, so 180 may be right. I totally can relate to the issue of not being able to drop to the original range. I really tried but only cane to 134 Hz at Yeson, while at home I was able to let it drop to 120, 110 or even 100 Hz. My original voice must have been in that range. But its just a psychological barrier to do that in front of people, even if they are professionals.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 07, 2015, 12:03:43 AM
Post by: iKate on June 07, 2015, 12:03:43 AM
Quick question. When do you resume your estrogen post surgery? The day after?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Zoe Snow on June 07, 2015, 01:01:42 AM
Post by: Zoe Snow on June 07, 2015, 01:01:42 AM
Quote from: iKate on June 07, 2015, 12:03:43 AM
Quick question. When do you resume your estrogen post surgery? The day after?
Yup, Dr. Kim said I could resume taking Spiro and Estrogen the next day after the procedure
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 07, 2015, 06:15:37 AM
Post by: iKate on June 07, 2015, 06:15:37 AM
I'm not stopping spiro only e as I take spiro for blood pressure
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 07, 2015, 07:05:41 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 07, 2015, 07:05:41 AM
I asked my endocrinologist. She said I would not even have to stop transdermal estradiol (if I had pills or Androcur, I would have to stop them though). So I stopped only a day before the surgery and resumed the evening after.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 07, 2015, 07:42:39 AM
Post by: iKate on June 07, 2015, 07:42:39 AM
Yeah I take pills. 3 days before I stop them. I'm on reduced dose now.
I'm nervous and excited. I've never been to Asia and I've never been under the knife. This is also going to be life changing as visually I have absolutely no issues but when I talk it's completely different. This will hopefully fill in a missing puzzle piece.
I'm nervous and excited. I've never been to Asia and I've never been under the knife. This is also going to be life changing as visually I have absolutely no issues but when I talk it's completely different. This will hopefully fill in a missing puzzle piece.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 07, 2015, 09:15:02 AM
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 07, 2015, 09:15:02 AM
The Pre-op PA at the surgical center used by Dr. Haben said I could keep taking estradiol right up to the morning of surgery. Interesting...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 07, 2015, 09:55:28 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 07, 2015, 09:55:28 AM
transdermal or injectable estradiol is not causing higher risk of thrombosis, estradiol pills and androcur however are known to increase that risk, thats why surgeons usually generally recommend to stop "hormones" before the surgery....
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 07, 2015, 10:11:26 AM
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 07, 2015, 10:11:26 AM
Hm. I guess Haben or the PA think the increase to risk is negligible for this combination of procedures..
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 07, 2015, 02:04:38 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 07, 2015, 02:04:38 PM
Well, its just a 45-90 min procedure, so its not like FFS or GRS which takes several hours... nd you dont stay in hospital bed for more than a few hours or up to 2 days.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 07, 2015, 04:29:27 PM
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 07, 2015, 04:29:27 PM
Right. I also found it interesting that they only disallow the taking of Ibuprofen(NSAID, thins blood) up to two days before the surgery, not ten as is commonly done with cosmetic procedures here. I'm sticking to the ten just to be on the safe side. ;)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 23, 2015, 11:25:58 AM
Post by: iKate on June 23, 2015, 11:25:58 AM
Well I'm here at JFK waiting for my flight to ICN. Mom's flight via Tokyo already departed. So excited!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kittenpower on June 23, 2015, 11:33:37 AM
Post by: kittenpower on June 23, 2015, 11:33:37 AM
Congratulations and best wishes :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 23, 2015, 02:47:23 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 23, 2015, 02:47:23 PM
Good luck (y)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 23, 2015, 02:57:12 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 23, 2015, 02:57:12 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 23, 2015, 11:25:58 AM
Well I'm here at JFK waiting for my flight to ICN. Mom's flight via Tokyo already departed. So excited!
All my best wishes! Please note everything so I can ask you questions for when I go in a few weeks!
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 23, 2015, 03:03:47 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 23, 2015, 03:03:47 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 23, 2015, 11:25:58 AMAre you there yet? It's 10 hours from where I am in Europe. How long was your flight?
Well I'm here at JFK waiting for my flight to ICN. Mom's flight via Tokyo already departed. So excited!
How exciting!
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 06:02:36 AM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 06:02:36 AM
I arrived a couple of hours ago. Got a prepaid SIM card for my phone so I have data everywhere but wifi seems ubiquitous. Work also turned on roaming on my work phone.
I dressed pretty gender ambiguous going through airport security but that was worse than just presenting female with a male passport. I got some advice in another thread that I should just "suck it up" and pretend to be a male for a day. Suffice to say that didn't really work. My passport got immigration and TSA staring hard at it and looked at me and the picture like 10 times before she just initialed my boarding pass. I did set off the scanner at JFK and they had to do a pat down. Then I said, "I'm transgender" and the female screener told the guy at the checkpoint,"yeah I kinda figured that's what it was" and she did the pat down. So next time I'm just going straight presenting female and disclosing trans status to security screeners up front.
The FAs did not gender me until I spoke and it was "sir" a couple of times. Eventually I just got fed up and said, "sorry but I'm a woman. Please call me ma'am and don't call me sir, thank you!" and she apologized. One of the other FAs did not gender me at all, saying "excuse me" and not sir or ma'am.
Otherwise it was pretty good. Food was good, I had bibimbap and beef with mashed potatoes (2 meals). The upper deck of the A380 is nice, but coach isn't so bad either. They give you Bose headphones for the flight of you fly prestige or first but I brought my own. Got currency from the ATM but had to pay ₩4000 in fees plus $1 to navy federal CU (they say visa charges them that fee) but I get the fee reimbursed from the CU I think. Even with the fee the rate was 2.8% above the XE mid market rate. I will be using mostly credit cards here since mine doesn't have forex fees but I needed ₩ to pay Phil house.
I haven't flown internationally in like 8 years, so this is all new for me. The service on KAL direct from JFK is excellent, better than any domestic US airline I've been on.
Anyway any questions ask away but I'm merely following the trail blazed by Jenny and others...
I dressed pretty gender ambiguous going through airport security but that was worse than just presenting female with a male passport. I got some advice in another thread that I should just "suck it up" and pretend to be a male for a day. Suffice to say that didn't really work. My passport got immigration and TSA staring hard at it and looked at me and the picture like 10 times before she just initialed my boarding pass. I did set off the scanner at JFK and they had to do a pat down. Then I said, "I'm transgender" and the female screener told the guy at the checkpoint,"yeah I kinda figured that's what it was" and she did the pat down. So next time I'm just going straight presenting female and disclosing trans status to security screeners up front.
The FAs did not gender me until I spoke and it was "sir" a couple of times. Eventually I just got fed up and said, "sorry but I'm a woman. Please call me ma'am and don't call me sir, thank you!" and she apologized. One of the other FAs did not gender me at all, saying "excuse me" and not sir or ma'am.
Otherwise it was pretty good. Food was good, I had bibimbap and beef with mashed potatoes (2 meals). The upper deck of the A380 is nice, but coach isn't so bad either. They give you Bose headphones for the flight of you fly prestige or first but I brought my own. Got currency from the ATM but had to pay ₩4000 in fees plus $1 to navy federal CU (they say visa charges them that fee) but I get the fee reimbursed from the CU I think. Even with the fee the rate was 2.8% above the XE mid market rate. I will be using mostly credit cards here since mine doesn't have forex fees but I needed ₩ to pay Phil house.
I haven't flown internationally in like 8 years, so this is all new for me. The service on KAL direct from JFK is excellent, better than any domestic US airline I've been on.
Anyway any questions ask away but I'm merely following the trail blazed by Jenny and others...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 06:56:28 AM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 06:56:28 AM
Looks like medical tourism is booming here
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1188.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz403%2Frjairam%2F4372A93A-010D-4555-90CC-70C44E958B9B_zpsipefp9wh.jpg&hash=5fab2714cf8605822cf96bbf1f617e8ecf06455e) (http://s1188.photobucket.com/user/rjairam/media/4372A93A-010D-4555-90CC-70C44E958B9B_zpsipefp9wh.jpg.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1188.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz403%2Frjairam%2F4372A93A-010D-4555-90CC-70C44E958B9B_zpsipefp9wh.jpg&hash=5fab2714cf8605822cf96bbf1f617e8ecf06455e) (http://s1188.photobucket.com/user/rjairam/media/4372A93A-010D-4555-90CC-70C44E958B9B_zpsipefp9wh.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 01:57:06 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 01:57:06 PM
Hi Kate. It's great you're safely there. I really empathise with your security embarrassments; I'm lucky in that I transitioned a very long time ago so I have a passport in my female identity.
How did you get from the airport to Phil house and was it difficult to make yourself understood? How much was it? I've a fear of being taken for much more than the fare should be; just my usual healthy urban suspicion I suppose.
Oh and one more question; do they speak English at Phil House? I know the emails I get are in English.
Anyhow, you must be jet-lagged! Let us know how the meeting with Dr Kim goes.
(Well you did say ask you anything!)
Sarah.
How did you get from the airport to Phil house and was it difficult to make yourself understood? How much was it? I've a fear of being taken for much more than the fare should be; just my usual healthy urban suspicion I suppose.
Oh and one more question; do they speak English at Phil House? I know the emails I get are in English.
Anyhow, you must be jet-lagged! Let us know how the meeting with Dr Kim goes.
(Well you did say ask you anything!)
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 02:00:04 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 02:00:04 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 24, 2015, 06:56:28 AM
Looks like medical tourism is booming here
Is that the airport?
The fees you mentioned for getting money from ATMs seem very high. Did you think of taking Korean cash with you from the US?
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 24, 2015, 02:32:29 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 24, 2015, 02:32:29 PM
ATM fees are not that high in the city - the airport is probably more expensive. changing cash in your home country is often way more expensive than the ATM fee. I did that and basically paid 10-20% of the value for the money order at my bank. The ATM fee was like 1-5%.
Phil House personnel are very good in english, I think. I had no issues to make them understand - they dont even have much of the korean accent that is sometimes hard to understand.
I would definitely try to take the train or bus from the airport. its fast and cheap. But if you are tired after the flight, I think a Taxi is about 60 EU-80 EU, but maybe better ask before the trip. On the downside - almost no Taxi drivers seem to speak english, so haggling with them about prices is without sense. If you arrive on a weekday during regular hours, Jessie can organize a pickup to Gangnam - from there a taxi is just 10000-15000 Won to the phil house.
AFAIK you can also ask Phil house to send a trustworthy taxi, but I am not sure about that.
Phil House personnel are very good in english, I think. I had no issues to make them understand - they dont even have much of the korean accent that is sometimes hard to understand.
I would definitely try to take the train or bus from the airport. its fast and cheap. But if you are tired after the flight, I think a Taxi is about 60 EU-80 EU, but maybe better ask before the trip. On the downside - almost no Taxi drivers seem to speak english, so haggling with them about prices is without sense. If you arrive on a weekday during regular hours, Jessie can organize a pickup to Gangnam - from there a taxi is just 10000-15000 Won to the phil house.
AFAIK you can also ask Phil house to send a trustworthy taxi, but I am not sure about that.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 02:40:30 PM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 02:40:30 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 02:00:04 PM
Is that the airport? The fees for getting money from ATMs seem very high. Did you think of taking Korean cash with you from the US?
Sarah.
Yes it is the airport. Getting money from home? It would have cost more that way. It's actually cheaper getting KRW from an ATM here than getting US$ from another bank ATM when stateside. Remember I compared to mid market rates which aren't the "buy" or "sell" rates. 3% over the mid market rate is pretty good. However I'm trying to use mostly my credit card(s) which give me a better rate.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 02:47:37 PM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 02:47:37 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 24, 2015, 02:32:29 PM
ATM fees are not that high in the city - the airport is probably more expensive. changing cash in your home country is often way more expensive than the ATM fee. I did that and basically paid 10-20% of the value for the money order at my bank. The ATM fee was like 1-5%.
It depends on which ATM. Convenience store ATMs cost more but big bank ATMs like Citibank may cost less. Also it threw me off when I got here first that you had to press "foreign card" first before using a foreign ATM card. If the ATM doesn't have that it won't work. If you don't press that button it won't work either.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 02:56:37 PM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 01:57:06 PM
How did you get from the airport to Phil house and was it difficult to make yourself understood? How much was it? I've a fear of being taken for much more than the fare should be; just my usual healthy urban suspicion I suppose.
I'm a city girl in many respects so I know how to navigate public transport. The subway was pretty easy. I took airport railroad and transferred to the subway. Just go to the booth at ICN and ask for a map. Tell the window clerk you are going to Achasan station and to circle the start and end points for you and where to transfer. I transferred one stop before gimpo and then took the #5 line to Achasan. Phil house is a short walk from there.
If you are familiar with how public transportation works it's not too hard to figure out the Seoul subway. The lines are numbered and they intersect at various points. Very easy.
I got a T money card which you swipe on the way out as well as in. Subway fares are distance based.
QuoteOh and one more question; do they speak English at Phil House? I know the emails I get are in English.
Everyone in Korea I've met seems to be able to speak English to some degree. The guy at Phil house did understand English but the accent tripped me up a bit. I had to speak a bit slowly as he did not understand everything.
QuoteAnyhow, you must be jet-lagged! Let us know how the meeting with Dr Kim goes.
(Well you did say ask you anything!)
Sarah.
Hahah yeah. I'm going to see him today at 13:30.
We see how it goes.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 03:04:24 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 24, 2015, 02:56:37 PM
Hahah yeah. I'm going to see him today at 13:30.
We see how it goes.
Why are you even up? You're 8 hours ahead of me so it must be around 5am for you?
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 03:05:25 PM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 03:05:25 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 03:04:24 PM
Why are you even up? You're 8 hours ahead of me so it must be around 5am for you?
Sarah
Hehe it's 5am here. I'm an early riser. I usually get up at 5 every day.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lynne on June 24, 2015, 03:06:57 PM
Post by: Lynne on June 24, 2015, 03:06:57 PM
I'm glad you arrived there safely. How do you feel? Are you still excited?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 03:44:40 PM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 03:44:40 PM
Quote from: Lynne on June 24, 2015, 03:06:57 PM
I'm glad you arrived there safely. How do you feel? Are you still excited?
Very! It's a strange and new experience in Seoul for sure but I'm happy I'm here. It's not so hard to navigate either.
I will know more about my situation at the pre op appointment later today.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 04:35:35 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 04:35:35 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 24, 2015, 03:05:25 PMDoes Phil House do a breakfast in the room rate?
Hehe it's 5am here. I'm an early riser. I usually get up at 5 every day.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 24, 2015, 04:46:06 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 24, 2015, 04:46:06 PM
Phil House breakfast seemed to be toast, peanut butter and jelly plus coffee or tea . Except the day we actually wanted this and the bread was gone. So we kind of switched to do our own breakfast and store the stuff we need in the fridge.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 05:10:14 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 24, 2015, 05:10:14 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 24, 2015, 04:46:06 PMOh no, just checked. Phil House has no rooms except dorms for the 20th July!!
Phil House breakfast seemed to be toast, peanut butter and jelly plus coffee or tea . Except the day we actually wanted this and the bread was gone. So we kind of switched to do our own breakfast and store the stuff we need in the fridge.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 07:31:28 PM
Post by: iKate on June 24, 2015, 07:31:28 PM
So far Amex credit card has given me the best rate, just 0.2% above mid market. No forex fees either with my card.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 25, 2015, 02:51:49 AM
Post by: barbie on June 25, 2015, 02:51:49 AM
Ikate,
Nice to hear that you arrived without any serious problem. You seem to be very good at travelling in foreign countries. It will be very humid during your stay, as the monsoon already stared here, and will start tomorrow in Seoul.
I am going to fly to Seoul tomorrow for a meeting, but will return at night. It is like commuting from here to Seoul through airplane and subway.
Enjoy your stay in Seoul.
barbie~~
Nice to hear that you arrived without any serious problem. You seem to be very good at travelling in foreign countries. It will be very humid during your stay, as the monsoon already stared here, and will start tomorrow in Seoul.
I am going to fly to Seoul tomorrow for a meeting, but will return at night. It is like commuting from here to Seoul through airplane and subway.
Enjoy your stay in Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: katrinaw on June 25, 2015, 06:00:19 AM
Post by: katrinaw on June 25, 2015, 06:00:19 AM
Hi Kate,
There at last... best wishes for the surgery :-*
L Katy
There at last... best wishes for the surgery :-*
L Katy
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 08:35:55 AM
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 08:35:55 AM
Quote from: barbie on June 25, 2015, 02:51:49 AM
Ikate,
Nice to hear that you arrived without any serious problem. You seem to be very good at travelling in foreign countries. It will be very humid during your stay, as the monsoon already stared here, and will start tomorrow in Seoul.
I am going to fly to Seoul tomorrow for a meeting, but will return at night. It is like commuting from here to Seoul through airplane and subway.
Enjoy your stay in Seoul.
barbie~~
Thanks Barbie! I wish I could have seen you. I will be doing the op today at Yeson but I guess if they take visitors you can come? I am not sure.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Pre-op went well. They had some modification to the usual instructions for me, but I'm on track. For example I take my blood pressure meds before the surgery.
They have some modern equipment here but some of the basic ones tended to not behave, like the blood pressure cuff. Anyway after a few tries they were good to go.
I went in a dress and that was probably a mistake as I had to undress for EKG and chest X-Ray and wear a pair of pants in the exam room. However it was no big deal really. Dr Kim said wear whatever I want.
They did the whole comprehensive exam. They are extremely thorough, going through every last little detail. Dr Kim did the whole "camera up nose" thing to take pics of my vocal folds but also had to make me stick out my tongue for the endoscopy. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, just a little ticklish and I had to try not to gag when they did the one via the mouth.
Jessie was there all the way and was really super nice. She had to interpret for the assistants who only spoke Korean.
I have tremors and Dr Kim showed me that. I also have asymmetry. So I do get the botox next Friday as well. He showed me videos of Jenny and the Korean girl as well as some others of normal vocal folds to illustrate the issues I was having. He explained everything very well. When they did the air volume test I had like 4x the air volume of a normal person, which is expected since I have trained myself to project my voice for public speaking and radio.
My Fo was 160Hz, "trained" voice was 190Hz and lowest was about 140Hz. At 190Hz I was almost breaking to falsetto he was saying. This is a surprise as it's higher than I thought. I think since going full time I have been raising my voice subconsciously. He said I would get anywhere from 205 to 270Hz post op but to just speak naturally so I don't go too too high. He said I will definitely be female range but he wants me to train for the middle. I joked and said that not even he could make me sound like Mariah Carey... but I will try! He laughed.
He asks a lot of questions, how do you train your voice, do you sing etc. He also asked about how long I've been transitioned, living full time etc.
I know in the past people had concerns about misgendering by the staff but I had none of them. Jessie referred to me as "miss <my passport name>" as soon as I came in. I told her I go by (Kate) now and she asked what should she call me. Nobody misgendered me, at least not in English. One of the assistants thought my mom was there for the op and not me, lol (and my mom is obviously cisgender).
One more thing, my mom was a nurse in the ENT ward for many years and she was there with me for my consultation. Dr Kim called her in as well to help me understand. It's really nice if you go with someone, especially someone who knows.
They have some modern equipment here but some of the basic ones tended to not behave, like the blood pressure cuff. Anyway after a few tries they were good to go.
I went in a dress and that was probably a mistake as I had to undress for EKG and chest X-Ray and wear a pair of pants in the exam room. However it was no big deal really. Dr Kim said wear whatever I want.
They did the whole comprehensive exam. They are extremely thorough, going through every last little detail. Dr Kim did the whole "camera up nose" thing to take pics of my vocal folds but also had to make me stick out my tongue for the endoscopy. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, just a little ticklish and I had to try not to gag when they did the one via the mouth.
Jessie was there all the way and was really super nice. She had to interpret for the assistants who only spoke Korean.
I have tremors and Dr Kim showed me that. I also have asymmetry. So I do get the botox next Friday as well. He showed me videos of Jenny and the Korean girl as well as some others of normal vocal folds to illustrate the issues I was having. He explained everything very well. When they did the air volume test I had like 4x the air volume of a normal person, which is expected since I have trained myself to project my voice for public speaking and radio.
My Fo was 160Hz, "trained" voice was 190Hz and lowest was about 140Hz. At 190Hz I was almost breaking to falsetto he was saying. This is a surprise as it's higher than I thought. I think since going full time I have been raising my voice subconsciously. He said I would get anywhere from 205 to 270Hz post op but to just speak naturally so I don't go too too high. He said I will definitely be female range but he wants me to train for the middle. I joked and said that not even he could make me sound like Mariah Carey... but I will try! He laughed.
He asks a lot of questions, how do you train your voice, do you sing etc. He also asked about how long I've been transitioned, living full time etc.
I know in the past people had concerns about misgendering by the staff but I had none of them. Jessie referred to me as "miss <my passport name>" as soon as I came in. I told her I go by (Kate) now and she asked what should she call me. Nobody misgendered me, at least not in English. One of the assistants thought my mom was there for the op and not me, lol (and my mom is obviously cisgender).
One more thing, my mom was a nurse in the ENT ward for many years and she was there with me for my consultation. Dr Kim called her in as well to help me understand. It's really nice if you go with someone, especially someone who knows.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on June 25, 2015, 10:30:55 AM
Post by: kwala on June 25, 2015, 10:30:55 AM
Quote from: iKate on June 25, 2015, 09:09:32 AMThanks for all the info and so happy that you are about to undergo this amazing procedure!
Pre-op went well. They had some modification to the usual instructions for me, but I'm on track. For example I take my blood pressure meds before the surgery.
They have some modern equipment here but some of the basic ones tended to not behave, like the blood pressure cuff. Anyway after a few tries they were good to go.
I went in a dress and that was probably a mistake as I had to undress for EKG and chest X-Ray and wear a pair of pants in the exam room. However it was no big deal really. Dr Kim said wear whatever I want.
They did the whole comprehensive exam. They are extremely thorough, going through every last little detail. Dr Kim did the whole "camera up nose" thing to take pics of my vocal folds but also had to make me stick out my tongue for the endoscopy. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, just a little ticklish and I had to try not to gag when they did the one via the mouth.
Jessie was there all the way and was really super nice. She had to interpret for the assistants who only spoke Korean.
I have tremors and Dr Kim showed me that. I also have asymmetry. So I do get the botox next Friday as well. He showed me videos of Jenny and the Korean girl as well as some others of normal vocal folds to illustrate the issues I was having. He explained everything very well. When they did the air volume test I had like 4x the air volume of a normal person, which is expected since I have trained myself to project my voice for public speaking and radio.
My Fo was 160Hz, "trained" voice was 190Hz and lowest was about 140Hz. At 190Hz I was almost breaking to falsetto he was saying. This is a surprise as it's higher than I thought. I think since going full time I have been raising my voice subconsciously. He said I would get anywhere from 205 to 270Hz post op but to just speak naturally so I don't go too too high. He said I will definitely be female range but he wants me to train for the middle. I joked and said that not even he could make me sound like Mariah Carey... but I will try! He laughed.
He asks a lot of questions, how do you train your voice, do you sing etc. He also asked about how long I've been transitioned, living full time etc.
I know in the past people had concerns about misgendering by the staff but I had none of them. Jessie referred to me as "miss <my passport name>" as soon as I came in. I told her I go by (Kate) now and she asked what should she call me. Nobody misgendered me, at least not in English. One of the assistants thought my mom was there for the op and not me, lol (and my mom is obviously cisgender).
One more thing, my mom was a nurse in the ENT ward for many years and she was there with me for my consultation. Dr Kim called her in as well to help me understand. It's really nice if you go with someone, especially someone who knows.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Lynne on June 25, 2015, 11:54:26 AM
Post by: Lynne on June 25, 2015, 11:54:26 AM
Maybe a little late, but good luck with the surgery and thank you for sharing your experience!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 12:12:55 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 12:12:55 PM
Thats so funny with your mum being asked if she was there for the surgery - lol - how did she react?
I think Dr Kim did not ask me so many details about how I trained my voice or how long I was transitioned - but I dont remember. I wish they would do the explanations of the voice exercises before the surgery though - anyone going there in the future - maybe ask if they can do that. Its probably a lot easier if you can reproduce them and be corrected if you do them wrong - rather than just be a silent listener in the presentation of the exercises.
I think Dr Kim did not ask me so many details about how I trained my voice or how long I was transitioned - but I dont remember. I wish they would do the explanations of the voice exercises before the surgery though - anyone going there in the future - maybe ask if they can do that. Its probably a lot easier if you can reproduce them and be corrected if you do them wrong - rather than just be a silent listener in the presentation of the exercises.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 03:29:03 PM
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 03:29:03 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 12:12:55 PM
Thats so funny with your mum being asked if she was there for the surgery - lol - how did she react?
She was a bit confused but I immediately said, "right here!" And when she heard the voice she took me back to the consultation room.
QuoteI think Dr Kim did not ask me so many details about how I trained my voice or how long I was transitioned - but I dont remember. I wish they would do the explanations of the voice exercises before the surgery though - anyone going there in the future - maybe ask if they can do that. Its probably a lot easier if you can reproduce them and be corrected if you do them wrong - rather than just be a silent listener in the presentation of the exercises.
He asked me to explain my transition and asked me about how long I am on hormones so I explained how I felt like this as a little kid and then proceeded to explain my history.
I will ask for explanation of the voice exercises when I'm there for the follow up next Friday.
What is interesting is that he showed the 2 month and 7 month videos of Jenny and explained how it would be good if I saw a professional voice therapist after I healed to deal with things like resonance. He also said if my voice starts to give out and get croaky to send them a voice file.
My guess is he has been getting feedback about people who get the surgery then don't get the voice they expect so he wants to make sure and set the correct expectation and also inform people how to properly use the surgery as part of an overall voice rehab and not just a magic surgery that will give them a female voice.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 04:17:55 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 04:17:55 PM
Ah ok - well maybe he was asking this because you were still having a wrong name in the passport... I think he skipped those questions with me after I told him that I had all of thos things 15 years behind me.
But yes - its important to use voice therapy and do the exercises - I know my voice always is better right after them. And some people go there thinking its a magic bullet giving them a femme voice without training and then they end up with a higher pitched but still male sounding voice and are sad, so its good he tells people that this is not how it works.
But yes - its important to use voice therapy and do the exercises - I know my voice always is better right after them. And some people go there thinking its a magic bullet giving them a femme voice without training and then they end up with a higher pitched but still male sounding voice and are sad, so its good he tells people that this is not how it works.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
All my best wishes for your surgery Kate.
Sarah.
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 25, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 25, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Does anybody have a copy of the exercises that Dr. Kim prescribes? I wonder if I'd benefit from them...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 05:09:32 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 25, 2015, 04:41:17 PMI have a video which I think came from here somewhere, called Some questions about Yeson.mp4. It goes through some of the exercises but it's 31MB so uploading it might be difficult. Does anyone remember where this is on Susan's?
Does anybody have a copy of the exercises that Dr. Kim prescribes? I wonder if I'd benefit from them...
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 05:17:23 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 05:17:23 PM
Found it. It's on Youtube. Search for 'CVRP video'
Sarah.
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 05:49:50 PM
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 05:49:50 PM
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 25, 2015, 04:41:17 PM
Does anybody have a copy of the exercises that Dr. Kim prescribes? I wonder if I'd benefit from them...
It's on the website, under videos.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 05:50:10 PM
Post by: iKate on June 25, 2015, 05:50:10 PM
I'm here! Just waiting for them to open up, lol
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1188.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz403%2Frjairam%2F8B7D67AD-B060-43D2-BB95-C6455DD54594_zpsp1yfsslc.jpg&hash=35c588b8747936566d0bfe4b6fb03354cbf7ff46) (http://s1188.photobucket.com/user/rjairam/media/8B7D67AD-B060-43D2-BB95-C6455DD54594_zpsp1yfsslc.jpg.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1188.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz403%2Frjairam%2F8B7D67AD-B060-43D2-BB95-C6455DD54594_zpsp1yfsslc.jpg&hash=35c588b8747936566d0bfe4b6fb03354cbf7ff46) (http://s1188.photobucket.com/user/rjairam/media/8B7D67AD-B060-43D2-BB95-C6455DD54594_zpsp1yfsslc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 05:51:43 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 05:51:43 PM
Best wishes - enjoy the ice cream!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 06:41:33 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 06:41:33 PM
All the best! Get in touch as soon as you feel like it again...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 12:20:30 AM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 12:20:30 AM
Ok so I'm done and in the recovery room. No coughing (good) and it was over in an instant. My tongue is still a bit numb but that is fading away. They took special care due to blood pressure and diabetes but Dr Lee and Dr Kim are very experienced and know their stuff.
I did have foreign body sensation in the throat but that went away once I drank water.
I did have foreign body sensation in the throat but that went away once I drank water.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: katrinaw on June 26, 2015, 12:30:36 AM
Post by: katrinaw on June 26, 2015, 12:30:36 AM
Congrats Kate... so happy for you xoxoxo
Speedy recovery
L Katy :-*
Speedy recovery
L Katy :-*
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 12:56:03 AM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 12:56:03 AM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 25, 2015, 06:41:33 PMalso I did find out that they used a teeth guard. So do not worry about weak teeth.
All the best! Get in touch as soon as you feel like it again...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Mariah on June 26, 2015, 12:59:31 AM
Post by: Mariah on June 26, 2015, 12:59:31 AM
Congrats and best wishes to a speedy recovery. Hugs
Mariah
Mariah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 01:41:27 AM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 01:41:27 AM
Quote from: Mariah2014 on June 26, 2015, 12:59:31 AM
Congrats and best wishes to a speedy recovery. Hugs
Mariah
Thank you Mariah!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Jessie Ann on June 26, 2015, 01:44:29 AM
Post by: Jessie Ann on June 26, 2015, 01:44:29 AM
Good Luck with your recovery Kate. I will be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 03:20:46 AM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 03:20:46 AM
I was discharged and back to Phil house via the subway.
Dr Kim did a quick look over (camera up nose again) and it all seemed good. Asymmetry corrected and he sutured 1/3 of the folds
Thanks for all the well wishes!
Dr Kim did a quick look over (camera up nose again) and it all seemed good. Asymmetry corrected and he sutured 1/3 of the folds
Thanks for all the well wishes!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 06:52:00 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 06:52:00 AM
Congratulations- sounds like all went perfectly accoring to plan. Recover well and then enjoy the city!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 09:02:46 AM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 09:02:46 AM
Quote from: iKate on June 26, 2015, 12:56:03 AMSo happy that you're out and fine. I'll mention the tooth guard thing to Jessie. Thank you for the information!
also I did find out that they used a teeth guard. So do not worry about weak teeth.
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 09:46:23 AM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 09:46:23 AM
When I was discharged I was thinking of taking a cab but the subway is super duper easy. It's pretty crowded at rush hour but nothing like the NYC subway.
Phil house is not that far anyway. I walked a few blocks to Apkujeong rodeo station on the yellow line, go to the last stop and from there you can transfer to the #5 line and get off at Achasan. Phil house is just a few steps away. It takes less than 40 minutes door to door.
I used the T money card so the fare is cheap, I think it's about US$1 each way.
Phil house is not that far anyway. I walked a few blocks to Apkujeong rodeo station on the yellow line, go to the last stop and from there you can transfer to the #5 line and get off at Achasan. Phil house is just a few steps away. It takes less than 40 minutes door to door.
I used the T money card so the fare is cheap, I think it's about US$1 each way.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
What I hated about the subway in Seoul: You drive for 5 minutes and then you walk for 10 minutes at the transfer subway station over a mile to catch the next train. Especially the transfer at the terminal station of the yellow line. Considering I was still pretty shaken after I was discharged, I was happy to take the taxi. It also took 30 minutes or so and it was about 10 or 15 EU - that was about 5-7 EU per person, I think that was totally worth it, but it really depends on how well you take the anaesthesia...
One tip - if you intend to take a taxi anywhere - make sure to get a card with the adress printed in korean on it from the hotel or from Yeson - even before you are mute, most drivers dont understand english and if you have a korean business card of the hotel, you can just show it to him and he can punch it into his navigation system.
One tip - if you intend to take a taxi anywhere - make sure to get a card with the adress printed in korean on it from the hotel or from Yeson - even before you are mute, most drivers dont understand english and if you have a korean business card of the hotel, you can just show it to him and he can punch it into his navigation system.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 26, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
Post by: Cadence Jean on June 26, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
Congrats, I'm glad all went well for you! Best wishes on a speedy recovery! Also: my tongue is still a bit numb two weeks after surgery with Haben. Lol You're doing pretty good if it went away that quickly!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 01:27:00 PM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 01:27:00 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
What I hated about the subway in Seoul: You drive for 5 minutes and then you walk for 10 minutes at the transfer subway station over a mile to catch the next train. Especially the transfer at the terminal station of the yellow line. Considering I was still pretty shaken after I was discharged, I was happy to take the taxi. It also took 30 minutes or so and it was about 10 or 15 EU - that was about 5-7 EU per person, I think that was totally worth it, but it really depends on how well you take the anaesthesia...
One tip - if you intend to take a taxi anywhere - make sure to get a card with the adress printed in korean on it from the hotel or from Yeson - even before you are mute, most drivers dont understand english and if you have a korean business card of the hotel, you can just show it to him and he can punch it into his navigation system.
I guess this wasn't as much of an issue for me as I am accustomed to long corridors for transfer in New York, so it is similar here. I thought that's how all subway systems are. I haven't been to Europe yet so maybe it is different there. The rail lines apparently are also run by different companies, much like how the New York City Subway was before it was all unified.
The money was not an issue as I was going to take a cab but then Jessie said I had to hail one and she couldn't call one because they don't stop in front of the building but had to get it across the street so I just took the subway instead. I wonder if Uber is available here? I might give that a try as I use that all the time in other places like New York and New Jersey.
Taking a cab from the airport was going to be horrendously expensive, over ₩55,000, so I took the airport railroad and transferred to the subway. That was a long time but it was not too bad.
I like riding trains anyway, no matter small or big. :)
In any case I stayed there all day so I was very well rested. Anesthesia makes you feel tired anyway you take it but I was good enough to walk outside after, apparently. Just had to take it a bit slow.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 01:28:24 PM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 01:28:24 PM
Quote from: Cadence Jean on June 26, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
Congrats, I'm glad all went well for you! Best wishes on a speedy recovery! Also: my tongue is still a bit numb two weeks after surgery with Haben. Lol You're doing pretty good if it went away that quickly!
I have a slight numbness at the tip but it is fading away rapidly.
Thanks for the wishes! I hope that your surgery with Haben is healing up good so we can hear the real you. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 01:56:45 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 01:56:45 PM
Ah no - I know subways more like in London or in Munich or Berlin - they dont have always that long corridors - in Munich you barely have to walk to change trains. I think everyone is different regarding anaesthesia. I was very happy to have company when I was discharged from the clinic becaus eI was feeling very weak and sleepy, so she held my hand, we walked slowly to the street and hailed a cab, gave them the phin house business card and then I fell asleep in the cab... Maybe it was becaus eI had a full anaesthesia just 6 weeks before already.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 04:53:42 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 04:53:42 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 26, 2015, 01:27:00 PM
I like riding trains anyway, no matter small or big. :)
Do you hear much about the MERS virus Kate? And is everyone wearing a facemask even though it's the monsoon season? (How wet is it there?)
You really seem to be taking Korea in your stride. I'd heard that Koreans stare a lot, particularly at foreigners and because I'm blonde I wonder if I might get a lot of that... Have you noticed any particular attention by being foreign?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 05:05:21 PM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 05:05:21 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 04:53:42 PM
Do you hear much about the MERS virus Kate? And is everyone wearing a facemask even though it's the monsoon season? (How wet is it there?)
I heard about it. I wanted to do the DMZ tour but I was told it was canceled due to MERS. I wear a mask because I don't want dust, smoke and other crud to affect me before and after I went to Dr Kim. Granted it's not China and Korea is relatively clean but pollution is pollution. I bought an 8 pack for ₩2000.
It was wet yesterday. I carried an umbrella. It dried up in the afternoon when I left. It's not like spring in the US I think, but that was just one day. Who knows. In New Jersey where I live it floods and floods in some places. It did wet my shoes though (ballet flats made with organic cotton) which I wasn't that happy about but it should have dried out by now. I have sneakers to go out with as a backup.
Quote
You really seem to be taking Korea in your stride. I'd heard that Koreans stare a lot, particularly at foreigners and because I'm blonde I wonder if I might get a lot of that... Have you noticed any particular attention by being foreign?
I have noticed some stares. I am a foreigner without a doubt and I am not white (ethnic Indian from the Caribbean). I just take it in stride, maybe wave once or twice. People then look away. I am not that tall, 5'6" but I am a bit taller than a lot of Korean women, most of whom I noticed were pretty petite.
Blonde? You'll fit right in. Don't worry. A lot of Korean women seem to color their hair.
And yes, I enjoy being a tourist, especially in the age of social media. I love taking pics, selfies and other wild photos and sharing them.
For example:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1188.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz403%2Frjairam%2FBD1ED6DB-09C5-4E62-9B64-4DEE1D2F814B_zpsrxbvllm1.jpg&hash=0073bbd8baee94409b6c84e1b6a9e024175cc9cb) (http://s1188.photobucket.com/user/rjairam/media/BD1ED6DB-09C5-4E62-9B64-4DEE1D2F814B_zpsrxbvllm1.jpg.html)
Me doing a poor imitation of Psy in gangnam style... It got a few laughs on FB, and one of my (cis woman) friends told me I had a nice rack, LOL.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 05:19:17 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 05:19:17 PM
When I was there Koreans stared more at this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7kWVuD3.jpg&hash=8413a3b418f9d349ba816b2b98bd726349cd2feb)
They did not bother much about foreign tourists...
When you get the face masks, make sure they are the right ones. They sell cheap ones that are only against smell or cold wind or against big dust particles - you need to get the ones with the fine mesh size to filter out very small particles.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7kWVuD3.jpg&hash=8413a3b418f9d349ba816b2b98bd726349cd2feb)
They did not bother much about foreign tourists...
When you get the face masks, make sure they are the right ones. They sell cheap ones that are only against smell or cold wind or against big dust particles - you need to get the ones with the fine mesh size to filter out very small particles.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 06:24:12 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 06:24:12 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 05:19:17 PM
When you get the face masks, make sure they are the right ones. They sell cheap ones that are only against smell or cold wind or against big dust particles - you need to get the ones with the fine mesh size to filter out very small particles.
Can I buy those in the airport Anja, and how would I know good from not so good masks?
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 26, 2015, 08:46:42 PM
Post by: barbie on June 26, 2015, 08:46:42 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 11:08:57 AM
What I hated about the subway in Seoul: You drive for 5 minutes and then you walk for 10 minutes at the transfer subway station over a mile to catch the next train. Especially the transfer at the terminal station of the yellow line.
Seoul city strongly encourages people to walk at least 4 km per day. Obesity already became a serious health problem here in S. Korea, especially among kids and 20s. When I see girls at their 20s, their over-weighted bodies remind me of those women at 30 or 40s in rural areas of the U.S.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 26, 2015, 08:51:50 PM
Post by: barbie on June 26, 2015, 08:51:50 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 04:53:42 PM
Do you hear much about the MERS virus Kate? And is everyone wearing a facemask even though it's the monsoon season? (How wet is it there?)
You really seem to be taking Korea in your stride. I'd heard that Koreans stare a lot, particularly at foreigners and because I'm blonde I wonder if I might get a lot of that... Have you noticed any particular attention by being foreign?
Yesterday I noticed that people in the street watch me instead of other beautiful Russian girls. When I was in Namdaemun market, sellers there commented that I am so much tall and I could hear their chatting.
Yes. People watch me even in Japan or Germany.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 11:02:45 PM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 11:02:45 PM
Quote from: barbie on June 26, 2015, 08:46:42 PM
Seoul city strongly encourages people to walk at least 4 km per day. Obesity already became a serious health problem here in S. Korea, especially among kids and 20s. When I see girls at their 20s, their over-weighted bodies remind me of those women at 30 or 40s in rural areas of the U.S.
barbie~~
My mom really commented that everyone here seems so fit. It makes sense now.
Then again she is comparing it to America...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 11:03:35 PM
Post by: iKate on June 26, 2015, 11:03:35 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 06:24:12 PM
Can I buy those in the airport Anja, and how would I know good from not so good masks?
Sarah.
A lot of the pharmacies and convenience stores have them.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 12:42:53 AM
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 12:42:53 AM
Quote from: iKate on June 25, 2015, 08:35:55 AM
Thanks Barbie! I wish I could have seen you. I will be doing the op today at Yeson but I guess if they take visitors you can come? I am not sure.
You seem to undergo the voice surgery very quickly. Hopefully you will get satisfactory result.
I can go to Seoul at any time if I wish. When are you going to leave?
Yesterday at Namdaemun market. We had a meeting at a nearby building.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/523/19190875285_48ea08c4c2_b.jpg)
barbie~~
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 27, 2015, 06:23:04 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 27, 2015, 06:23:04 AM
Regarding the type of mask needed, it was discussed here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139439.msg1629940.html#msg1629940
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,139439.msg1629940.html#msg1629940
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Andre87 on June 27, 2015, 07:36:36 AM
Post by: Andre87 on June 27, 2015, 07:36:36 AM
Quote from: anjaq on June 26, 2015, 05:19:17 PM
When I was there Koreans stared more at this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7kWVuD3.jpg&hash=8413a3b418f9d349ba816b2b98bd726349cd2feb)
This is so sad..they're just starring at their cellphones. :-\
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 27, 2015, 07:48:50 AM
Post by: iKate on June 27, 2015, 07:48:50 AM
Quote from: barbie on June 27, 2015, 12:42:53 AM
You seem to undergo the voice surgery very quickly. Hopefully you will get satisfactory result.
I can go to Seoul at any time if I wish. When are you going to leave?
Yesterday at Namdaemun market. We had a meeting at a nearby building.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/523/19190875285_48ea08c4c2_b.jpg)
barbie~~
barbie~~
I'm leaving on Saturday, July 4. I have my follow up with Dr Kim on Thursday. I would be happy to meet you at your convenience but I am unable to talk so I will use my smartphone to communicate (text to speech). Let me know what day works for you.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 01:21:55 PM
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 01:21:55 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 26, 2015, 11:02:45 PM
My mom really commented that everyone here seems so fit. It makes sense now.
Then again she is comparing it to America...
Nowadays, bodies of young girls at their 20s here look like the typical 30s or 40s in America.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/482/19022719418_4e42687799_b.jpg)
These girls are all at their 20s.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 01:24:55 PM
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: iKate on June 27, 2015, 07:48:50 AM
I'm leaving on Saturday, July 4. I have my follow up with Dr Kim on Thursday. I would be happy to meet you at your convenience but I am unable to talk so I will use my smartphone to communicate (text to speech). Let me know what day works for you.
I am in summer vacation and several friends in Seoul are eager to meet me. Yes. I will send PM you if I decide to fly to Seoul next week.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 01:32:49 PM
Post by: barbie on June 27, 2015, 01:32:49 PM
Quote from: Andre87 on June 27, 2015, 07:36:36 AM
This is so sad..they're just starring at their cellphones. :-\
All of my family members including my little daughter at 11 years old have smartphone. One day, I noticed all of them watch their smartphone at the same time at home. We frequently communicate through text messenger. My two sons seldom send a text message to me, but my daughter frequently. To prevent any eye problem, I purchased a tablet for my daughter, but she still prefer the smartphone for watching Youtube videos.
Starring at smartphones becomes a kind of ubiquitous culture here, regardless of age or generation. I am sure most of them are playing game, watching movie or exchanging text messages.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 27, 2015, 05:04:26 PM
Post by: iKate on June 27, 2015, 05:04:26 PM
Day 2 or is it day 3? I can't remember. Taking all the medications and synatura cough suppressant. So far I haven't coughed once which is great and I've been totally silent. Using text to speech on my mac (option+Esc) and my iPhone.
I am also really getting how to bypass the cough with a wide open mouth and saying "ahh" without phonating. Just feeling a small tickle in my throat and no pain really. I start back my hormones today.
I may venture outside to walk around a bit later.
Food wise, my mom went and bought some stuff and made me some soup. :)
Groceries are expensive as expected...
Best exchange rate is with your credit card if you have no forex fee. For cash, I used my ATM card, Navy FCU charges 1% plus $1 (which is reimbursed with my account). If I was able to go to the base I would have 0 fees, but that is not possible. That is in addition to the fee charged by the Korean ATM operator.
I am also really getting how to bypass the cough with a wide open mouth and saying "ahh" without phonating. Just feeling a small tickle in my throat and no pain really. I start back my hormones today.
I may venture outside to walk around a bit later.
Food wise, my mom went and bought some stuff and made me some soup. :)
Groceries are expensive as expected...
Best exchange rate is with your credit card if you have no forex fee. For cash, I used my ATM card, Navy FCU charges 1% plus $1 (which is reimbursed with my account). If I was able to go to the base I would have 0 fees, but that is not possible. That is in addition to the fee charged by the Korean ATM operator.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 27, 2015, 05:23:22 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 27, 2015, 05:23:22 PM
Groceries are only expensive if you try to get western food. We paid a fortune on sanwhich bread, some sort of cheese-product and some ham plus butter-surrogate. lol.
If you buy fruits and veggies it cheap. Chicken is affordable. All else seems to be expensive. The take-out restaurants are quite ok - if you cross the main street with the subway, there are a few places that have takeout ans some stalls on the street that sell fried stuff - ususally its some sort of surimi, octopus, vegetables, noodles rolled in algae or chicken. There is also a small fried chicken place that we found was ok and one portion is enough for two unless you are eating a lot. avoid the soups though - they are certainly ot exactly western taste :P . around the corner to the right when heading to the subway there is a large electronics store and behind that there is a fish restaurant that looked nice and in the street to the right of that there are some more places that sell more or less food we are used to - fried schnitzel, chicken, fish, that sort of thing. And those are usually below 10kWon. There is a list of restaurants at the reception of phil house.
If you buy fruits and veggies it cheap. Chicken is affordable. All else seems to be expensive. The take-out restaurants are quite ok - if you cross the main street with the subway, there are a few places that have takeout ans some stalls on the street that sell fried stuff - ususally its some sort of surimi, octopus, vegetables, noodles rolled in algae or chicken. There is also a small fried chicken place that we found was ok and one portion is enough for two unless you are eating a lot. avoid the soups though - they are certainly ot exactly western taste :P . around the corner to the right when heading to the subway there is a large electronics store and behind that there is a fish restaurant that looked nice and in the street to the right of that there are some more places that sell more or less food we are used to - fried schnitzel, chicken, fish, that sort of thing. And those are usually below 10kWon. There is a list of restaurants at the reception of phil house.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 02:38:06 AM
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 02:38:06 AM
Quote from: iKate on June 27, 2015, 05:04:26 PM
Food wise, my mom went and bought some stuff and made me some soup. :)
Groceries are expensive as expected...
Near the subway station (Achasan), I can see the following two affordable restaurants. The price of each meal started at 1,000 KRW (US$ 1).
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/460/18603742064_752a2b4d3c_b.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/380/19040400349_070781021a_b.jpg)
These restaurants are like Chinese restaurant in the U.S., very cheap.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 03:09:31 AM
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 03:09:31 AM
I went to Lotteria across the street. I will try those places. What kind of food can I get for ₩1000?
I like the cream soup I got at Yeson. I may buy a few packets to take home and look for it in the Korean grocery.
I like the cream soup I got at Yeson. I may buy a few packets to take home and look for it in the Korean grocery.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 04:24:07 AM
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 04:24:07 AM
Quote from: iKate on June 28, 2015, 03:09:31 AM
I went to Lotteria across the street. I will try those places. What kind of food can I get for ₩1000?
I like the cream soup I got at Yeson. I may buy a few packets to take home and look for it in the Korean grocery.
Gimbab: KRW 1,000. You may order other menu after looking the photos of food. It usually costs around KRW 5,000 (US$ 5).
Lotteria is like McDonald, and kids and young people go there. I see some big Bulgogi restaurants near Phil House.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgogi
Pork bulgogi costs about KRW 40,000~50,000 for two persons, and beef bulgogi costs about KRW 100,000 for two persons. You may try it for full dinner.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 28, 2015, 04:59:49 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 28, 2015, 04:59:49 AM
Bulgogi is great! but massively expensive. We only found those places when we first looked around for food and were shocked. We did this once in the whole trip as a special finish to the trip before the flight home.
Gimbap and such can be 1000 Won or 1500 Won, same with those fried things they sell on the street. They are good but of course one 1500 Won piece will usually not make a full dinner unless you are tiny. We sometimes bought an assortment of those - some gimbap, some small pieces of fried octopus or surimi or chicken and brought it all home, bought a sauce we liked at a convenience store and that was a nice cheap "TV-Dinner" for like 4000-5000 per person.
Gimbap and such can be 1000 Won or 1500 Won, same with those fried things they sell on the street. They are good but of course one 1500 Won piece will usually not make a full dinner unless you are tiny. We sometimes bought an assortment of those - some gimbap, some small pieces of fried octopus or surimi or chicken and brought it all home, bought a sauce we liked at a convenience store and that was a nice cheap "TV-Dinner" for like 4000-5000 per person.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 28, 2015, 12:54:11 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 28, 2015, 12:54:11 PM
I thought I might be able to buy rice, some sauces and chicken or prawns and make my own simple meals in my room (i believe there are cooking facilities?) Do you think that would be possible? Is there a general store near to Phil House where I might get these things?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 01:13:23 PM
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 28, 2015, 12:54:11 PM
I thought I might be able to buy rice, some sauces and chicken or prawns and make my own simple meals in my room (i believe there are cooking facilities?) Do you think that would be possible? Is there a general store near to Phil House where I might get these things?
We bought some of that stuff in the small corner grocery stores across the street. It's different from western food but we approximated it so it's not that different.
There are lots of shops in that general area if you walk around. They take cash and credit cards.
And yes there is a 2 burner small gas cook top. You need your own pots, pans and utensils though.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 28, 2015, 01:53:05 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 28, 2015, 01:53:05 PM
You can get the pots and pans at the kitchen of the phil house but have to return them clean after cooking. The groceries can be bought across the street with the subway station, there are some small shops and also booths on the street that sell veggies mostly. There is also a butcher nearby, but meat is rather expensive.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 28, 2015, 02:59:37 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 28, 2015, 02:59:37 PM
Thanks Kate and Anja, that's very useful. I'll probably cook all my own food.
I think I'll mostly be staying in my room (I'll take lots of work to do). I'm not looking at this as a holiday and the foreign-ness of Korea has me quite worried. I was fine visiting the US, but this is entirely different.
Sarah.
I think I'll mostly be staying in my room (I'll take lots of work to do). I'm not looking at this as a holiday and the foreign-ness of Korea has me quite worried. I was fine visiting the US, but this is entirely different.
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 04:54:36 PM
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 04:54:36 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 28, 2015, 12:54:11 PM
I thought I might be able to buy rice, some sauces and chicken or prawns and make my own simple meals in my room (i believe there are cooking facilities?) Do you think that would be possible? Is there a general store near to Phil House where I might get these things?
Regarding hotels, have you looked over hotels.com? I think you can find better hotels at lower costs. For example: Hotel Artnouveau.
BTW, the rate of Phil House from hotels.com is about KRW 11,570 (US$ 12), which is absurdly cheap.
In my case, I usually stay at Ramada Seoul Dongdaemun, which is very clean and quiet, located in the downtown. The official one-night rate is about US$ 240, and the special discount rate for members is US$ 120, but the rate from hotels.com is about US$ 70 including tax (the prices in hotels.com do not include tax).
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 05:04:39 PM
Post by: barbie on June 28, 2015, 05:04:39 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 26, 2015, 04:53:42 PM
Do you hear much about the MERS virus Kate? And is everyone wearing a facemask even though it's the monsoon season? (How wet is it there?)
Because of MERS, it becomes easier to find hotels at lower rates. And, the airport is less crowded. The chance of getting MERS is lower than winning a million-dollar lottery. I never wear mask when visiting Seoul. Masks can not protect you from the virus, but can prevent spreading of virus from the patient when coughing.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 08:39:50 PM
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 08:39:50 PM
Quote from: barbie on June 28, 2015, 05:04:39 PM
I never wear mask when visiting Seoul. Masks can not protect you from the virus, but can prevent spreading of virus from the patient when coughing.
barbie~~
Agreed, but my main reason is to A. keep my mouth shut, B. prevent dust from getting in which encourages me to cough... if I did not go to Yeson it is unlikely that I would wear a mask. :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 08:41:59 PM
Post by: iKate on June 28, 2015, 08:41:59 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on June 28, 2015, 02:59:37 PM
Thanks Kate and Anja, that's very useful. I'll probably cook all my own food.
I think I'll mostly be staying in my room (I'll take lots of work to do). I'm not looking at this as a holiday and the foreign-ness of Korea has me quite worried. I was fine visiting the US, but this is entirely different.
Sarah.
Well to each her own, I guess, but I am always up for an adventure. I really do enjoy experiencing different cultures. There are some differences but I have also found a lot of similarities between here and New York, so it's not too much trouble for me at all. I am actually enjoying myself.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 29, 2015, 02:30:48 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 29, 2015, 02:30:48 AM
Careful! Those super cheap rates for Phil House are dormitory rooms. You don't want to share a room with backpackers after a surgery ;-)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 29, 2015, 02:32:50 AM
Post by: anjaq on June 29, 2015, 02:32:50 AM
Yeson recommends face masks, Jessie can buy good ones with you at the pharmacy across the street from the clinic
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 29, 2015, 01:25:16 PM
Post by: iKate on June 29, 2015, 01:25:16 PM
So I guess no news is good news? I've been keeping my mouth shut and only managed one small open mouth cough with no sound. No pain at all but I can still feel a slight sensation in my throat that I'm getting used to. I hope this means everything is healing up good. The only time I have to worry is a lot of pain and blood, right?
Title: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 29, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Post by: iKate on June 29, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: anjaq on June 25, 2015, 04:17:55 PM
Ah ok - well maybe he was asking this because you were still having a wrong name in the passport... I think he skipped those questions with me after I told him that I had all of thos things 15 years behind me.
I don't know. I had explained to Jessie why my passport is the way it is, that I did not want to interfere with travel plans. I guess dr Kim wants you to be sure.
In other places it seemed to be more of an issue. Some places asked me if this is really me and I said yes I'm transgender and showed them my driving license. Then they get it like a lightbulb going off.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on June 29, 2015, 02:09:02 PM
Post by: anjaq on June 29, 2015, 02:09:02 PM
Haha , yeah I remember those from 17 years ago - police stops and then having a driver license with name and picture that did not match me, really. Or shopping and using the debit card. But usually it all works out with a bit explaining and it was for me just a year or so.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on June 29, 2015, 04:51:32 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on June 29, 2015, 04:51:32 PM
I've reconsidered, and because I don't want to travel too far on public transport, I'm going for either the Princess Hotel (ten minutes away) at 61 USD (39UKP) per night or the Ramada (a mile away) at 91USD (58UKP) per night. These rates seem quite cheap and the Princess is only a bit more than the Phil House.
Does anyone have experience of either of these hotels?
Sarah.
Does anyone have experience of either of these hotels?
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on June 29, 2015, 05:16:21 PM
Post by: iKate on June 29, 2015, 05:16:21 PM
From what I remember walking down there, the Ramada wasn't too bad of a walk, like maybe 5-10 minutes.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 02, 2015, 06:29:35 AM
Post by: iKate on July 02, 2015, 06:29:35 AM
So I'm back from my final appointment with Dr Kim. I got the botox. Botox wasn't so bad. Just a tiny pin prick. It was kind of cool, he had an instrument he used with a microphone while he was injecting it. Jessie did say that I should be careful drinking water for the first 7 days, use a straw or bend slightly over.
My mom saw the Clonazepam and she was like, "oh wow they give you valium." Well it's not exactly Valium... I have to see after 4 months how I do. They said send them a voice file.
The voice training was kinda cool. One of the nurses (I think she's a nurse) gave me a demo and lots of pointers. However I have a speech language pathologist lined up after the 2 month rest period.
Jessie and I even had some girl talk, LOL. On a more serious note, I think that there had been complaints in the past about misgendering. That was nonexistent this time, for me anyway. I know Dr Kim has been talking with WPATH and others so maybe they gave him a few pointers. They got everything right and treated me with respect. They even used my new name and correct gender in paperwork except in the official (I guess Gov't mandated) medical records. They used the correct pronouns though.
They did comprehensive test on everything blood wise, including HgbA1C (diabetes) which is a concern for me. Thankfully my A1C is not in the diabetic range anymore.
My relaxed voice was 156.4Hz with a mean Fo of 151.02Hz and the "trained" was 196.04Hz with a mean Fo of 190.70. Add 74Hz to that and I'll end up easily around 230Hz which is fine.
My mom saw the Clonazepam and she was like, "oh wow they give you valium." Well it's not exactly Valium... I have to see after 4 months how I do. They said send them a voice file.
The voice training was kinda cool. One of the nurses (I think she's a nurse) gave me a demo and lots of pointers. However I have a speech language pathologist lined up after the 2 month rest period.
Jessie and I even had some girl talk, LOL. On a more serious note, I think that there had been complaints in the past about misgendering. That was nonexistent this time, for me anyway. I know Dr Kim has been talking with WPATH and others so maybe they gave him a few pointers. They got everything right and treated me with respect. They even used my new name and correct gender in paperwork except in the official (I guess Gov't mandated) medical records. They used the correct pronouns though.
They did comprehensive test on everything blood wise, including HgbA1C (diabetes) which is a concern for me. Thankfully my A1C is not in the diabetic range anymore.
My relaxed voice was 156.4Hz with a mean Fo of 151.02Hz and the "trained" was 196.04Hz with a mean Fo of 190.70. Add 74Hz to that and I'll end up easily around 230Hz which is fine.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on July 02, 2015, 11:36:40 AM
Post by: ReDucks on July 02, 2015, 11:36:40 AM
Heal up fast iKate!
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kittenpower on July 02, 2015, 03:05:46 PM
Post by: kittenpower on July 02, 2015, 03:05:46 PM
Thanks for the update; I'm glad everything is going well for you :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 02, 2015, 04:00:29 PM
Post by: barbie on July 02, 2015, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: iKate on July 02, 2015, 06:29:35 AM
So I'm back from my final appointment with Dr Kim. I got the botox. Botox wasn't so bad. Just a tiny pin prick. It was kind of cool, he had an instrument he used with a microphone while he was injecting it. Jessie did say that I should be careful drinking water for the first 7 days, use a straw or bend slightly over.
iKate,
You surgery seems to be OK so far.
I stay here in Jeju island, my hometown, as I have to have dinner with my friends every night. Unfortunately I have no chance to meet you in Seoul.
You are leaving tomorrow, as I know. Enjoy the last day in Seoul.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 02, 2015, 06:17:11 PM
Post by: iKate on July 02, 2015, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: barbie on July 02, 2015, 04:00:29 PM
iKate,
You surgery seems to be OK so far.
I stay here in Jeju island, my hometown, as I have to have dinner with my friends every night. Unfortunately I have no chance to meet you in Seoul.
You are leaving tomorrow, as I know. Enjoy the last day in Seoul.
barbie~~
Ah no worries maybe another time. I was happy to enjoy Seoul anyway :)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on July 03, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on July 03, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Does anyone know if Dr Kim will still operate given that I take Ramipril for high blood pressure and Lanzoprazole for stomach reflux?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 04, 2015, 04:05:52 PM
Post by: iKate on July 04, 2015, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 03, 2015, 03:06:02 PM
Does anyone know if Dr Kim will still operate given that I take Ramipril for high blood pressure and Lanzoprazole for stomach reflux?
Did you send Jessie the pre-op checklist? Make sure you mention all medications. They will work with you.
In my case I have diabetes and I take metformin, so it is controlled. I also have high blood pressure and take a few drugs (because I can't take the combo I was taking now that I am taking spiro). My BP measured 129/89 when I went in. I was off spiro by then, so it was elevated a little. Could have been a bit of white coat syndrome too.
The day before your op, one of the nurses will go over all your medications and may even give you special instructions if you have conditions like high blood pressure and diabetes. In my case they gave me a shot of something (may have been insulin) on the day of my op and they measured my blood glucose before I went under. They told me take one of my blood pressure pills (Amlodipine) in the morning of the op with a sip of water. Dr Lee, the anesthesiologist is extremely skilled and experienced. I fully trusted him. In Korea, only the top 1.5% of the class are allowed to be licensed as doctors. Therefore any Korean doctor is supposed to be highly skilled.
They worked with me and it was no problem at all.
In general though, antihypertensive agents are not really a problem. You just need to stop them the day before or the day of surgery and they will adjust the anesthesia accordingly. They will tell you. But you need to be up front.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 04, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
Post by: iKate on July 04, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
I am back in the US now.
Incheon airport is terrible for anyone not having an updated passport. They ping ponged me back from men to women's security line (there is one for each gender) and when they finally settled on the women's line and I walked through the scanner they looked at my passport and then called over a man to wand me down. I couldn't talk of course so I couldn't tell them about the trans thing. I did not even wear a dress or anything just a T shirt and jeans. I tried to guy it up as was suggested by stephe in the other thread but that didn't work so well.
So I'd suggest updating your documents like your passport as soon as possible. My name change court order goes in on Monday and when I get it signed by the judge I am getting an updated passport. No more of this nonsense.
US immigration and customs was no problem at all. Besides, TSA and CBP knows how to deal with transgender people and I used the automated entry kiosk anyway.
Incheon airport is terrible for anyone not having an updated passport. They ping ponged me back from men to women's security line (there is one for each gender) and when they finally settled on the women's line and I walked through the scanner they looked at my passport and then called over a man to wand me down. I couldn't talk of course so I couldn't tell them about the trans thing. I did not even wear a dress or anything just a T shirt and jeans. I tried to guy it up as was suggested by stephe in the other thread but that didn't work so well.
So I'd suggest updating your documents like your passport as soon as possible. My name change court order goes in on Monday and when I get it signed by the judge I am getting an updated passport. No more of this nonsense.
US immigration and customs was no problem at all. Besides, TSA and CBP knows how to deal with transgender people and I used the automated entry kiosk anyway.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 04, 2015, 04:41:40 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 04, 2015, 04:41:40 PM
Imagine what would have happened if you would have - as we did - taken a indirect flight that stops in Bejing. I was very glad that I had all passport documents AND the GRS behind me at that point as I had to undress to the underwear...
I think it totally makes sense to get the passport changed before doing international flights - or get a letter in all relevant languages to explain to the people at the customs and immigration.
Not speaking is not so much of a problem I believe though. I just used my phone with swype and speech assistant installed and could type very fast and show it in large letters on the screen to the people everywhere - it worked like a charm and I think they were extra friendly at times because they believed I was somehow disabled.
I think it totally makes sense to get the passport changed before doing international flights - or get a letter in all relevant languages to explain to the people at the customs and immigration.
Not speaking is not so much of a problem I believe though. I just used my phone with swype and speech assistant installed and could type very fast and show it in large letters on the screen to the people everywhere - it worked like a charm and I think they were extra friendly at times because they believed I was somehow disabled.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 04, 2015, 05:28:16 PM
Post by: barbie on July 04, 2015, 05:28:16 PM
Quote from: iKate on July 04, 2015, 04:11:00 PM
I am back in the US now.
Incheon airport is terrible for anyone not having an updated passport. They ping ponged me back from men to women's security line (there is one for each gender) and when they finally settled on the women's line and I walked through the scanner they looked at my passport and then called over a man to wand me down. I couldn't talk of course so I couldn't tell them about the trans thing. I did not even wear a dress or anything just a T shirt and jeans. I tried to guy it up as was suggested by stephe in the other thread but that didn't work so well.
Because of the summer Universiade, the security level has been elevated across the country.
http://www.globalpost.com/article/6597544/2015/06/28/universiade-vice-security-minister-run-safety-checks-universiade
I also got an unusual security check at Gimpo airport.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 04, 2015, 10:31:56 PM
Post by: iKate on July 04, 2015, 10:31:56 PM
Quote from: anjaq on July 04, 2015, 04:41:40 PM
Imagine what would have happened if you would have - as we did - taken a indirect flight that stops in Bejing. I was very glad that I had all passport documents AND the GRS behind me at that point as I had to undress to the underwear...
Why did they strip you to underwear?
I have problems with China anyway. I work for a TV media organization and China doesn't like journalists. To get a visa for China the company has to write a letter saying I am not going for work purposes.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 05, 2015, 11:39:29 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 05, 2015, 11:39:29 AM
I had quite a few medication with me and an inhaler for water vapour. I think they believed the inhaler to be a pot pipe and the medication to be illegal drugs or something. They questioned me about all the medication and hormones and the glass inhaler several times.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on July 06, 2015, 05:00:43 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on July 06, 2015, 05:00:43 PM
Barbie,
I have booked the Ramada which you said you used, but the reviews I saw weren't very good. Could you give some more details about it? Is there reasonable air conditioning and is the breakfast good?
Thanks,
Sarah.
I have booked the Ramada which you said you used, but the reviews I saw weren't very good. Could you give some more details about it? Is there reasonable air conditioning and is the breakfast good?
Thanks,
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 06, 2015, 07:32:30 PM
Post by: barbie on July 06, 2015, 07:32:30 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 06, 2015, 05:00:43 PM
Barbie,
I have booked the Ramada which you said you used, but the reviews I saw weren't very good. Could you give some more details about it? Is there reasonable air conditioning and is the breakfast good?
Thanks,
Sarah.
There are many Ramada hotels here in S. Korea, and all of them I stayed in were nice. Of course, the room temperature is automatically controlled. I seldom eat breakfast in hotels, but I guess it will be nice if offered from Ramada.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: runaway on July 07, 2015, 10:18:32 PM
Post by: runaway on July 07, 2015, 10:18:32 PM
Jessie has confirmed with me, that Yeson does not offer a tracheal shave together with VFS, due to its possible adverse effects on the surgery's results. :(
My trachea isn't prominent, but my voice is deep, so I'm torn between getting both procedures done and regretting it, or only getting VFS and always wondering what-if.
Has anyone else besides Jenny had both a tracheal shave and VFS with good results?
My trachea isn't prominent, but my voice is deep, so I'm torn between getting both procedures done and regretting it, or only getting VFS and always wondering what-if.
Has anyone else besides Jenny had both a tracheal shave and VFS with good results?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Dena on July 07, 2015, 10:56:45 PM
Post by: Dena on July 07, 2015, 10:56:45 PM
Quote from: runaway on July 07, 2015, 10:18:32 PMDr Haben has concerns because I had a tracheal shave about 35 years ago but he will be seeing me next week. I had mine done by a reconstructive plastic surgeon and he was very fearful about weakening the larynx so he was very conservative about how much material he removed. As the result I can still feel a bIt of the bump but it doesn't show enough for anybody to pick up on it. The scar across my neck as faded as it is shows more and i have never received a comment on that either. The Adams Apple provides no additional support so if that is all that is removed it will not alter the voice. Now if you look at my picture, you will see my larynx but about the only way to hid that is put on far more weight than I want to carry.
Jessie has confirmed with me, that Yeson does not offer a tracheal shave together with VFS, due to its possible adverse effects on the surgery's results. :(
My trachea isn't prominent, but my voice is deep, so I'm torn between getting both procedures done and regretting it, or only getting VFS and always wondering what-if.
Has anyone else besides Jenny had both a tracheal shave and VFS with good results?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 07, 2015, 11:43:44 PM
Post by: iKate on July 07, 2015, 11:43:44 PM
Quote from: runaway on July 07, 2015, 10:18:32 PM
Jessie has confirmed with me, that Yeson does not offer a tracheal shave together with VFS, due to its possible adverse effects on the surgery's results. :(
My trachea isn't prominent, but my voice is deep, so I'm torn between getting both procedures done and regretting it, or only getting VFS and always wondering what-if.
Has anyone else besides Jenny had both a tracheal shave and VFS with good results?
As an aside, Haben will do it as part of the "triple."
Fortunately I didn't need it.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 08, 2015, 11:36:01 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 08, 2015, 11:36:01 AM
Women have a larynx, too ;) - So basically only the additional part of the larynx has to be removed, right? And if done properly you can still have a prominent larynx, but its not an adamy apple then, its just a larynx, a voice box - every human has one (almost).
I wonder though why Yeson does not provide the surgery. I know that some time ago, Dr Kims aid not to do a trach shave with anyone else because it can be bad for the voice, but I remember that he basically said to better do it with him, as he would know how to handle the combination. Another surgery team that can deal with it is FacialTeam in Marbella, they do FFS and also trach shaves and they know Dr Kim and can use proper intubation that is not harmful after a VFS and AFAIK they also know how to do a trach shave that does not impact Dr Kims voice work.
I wonder though why Yeson does not provide the surgery. I know that some time ago, Dr Kims aid not to do a trach shave with anyone else because it can be bad for the voice, but I remember that he basically said to better do it with him, as he would know how to handle the combination. Another surgery team that can deal with it is FacialTeam in Marbella, they do FFS and also trach shaves and they know Dr Kim and can use proper intubation that is not harmful after a VFS and AFAIK they also know how to do a trach shave that does not impact Dr Kims voice work.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 08, 2015, 02:00:05 PM
Post by: iKate on July 08, 2015, 02:00:05 PM
So it's 12 days post op and I had a few coughs, not many, but I tried to keep my mouth open and let the air escape. One or two got away though. I did not make any sound.
I hope I hadn't screwed up anything. However there hasn't been pain or even a sore throat. I'm just worried about it healing OK. In any case I managed to get through the first seven days with just one mild cough and nothing screwed up so I'm hoping everything is fine for the next three weeks or so.
This morning my wife came to wake me up at 4:30 to ask a question. Out of pure reflex because I was asleep I answered, but the voice was slightly elevated above my pre-op pitch. Then I realized, oh darn, what have I done? I'm supposed to keep silent.
Went to my primary doc today and gave her a copy of my records from Yeson as well as the video of my vocal folds so they have it for my file. I also mentioned the clonazepam and other stuff. Checked out my A1C from my last blood draw and it was 6 which is actually pretty good for a diabetic. They also wanted to check my CBC to make sure I'm ok after surgery and any blood loss.
Friday makes it 14 days post op, tomorrow makes it 7 days post BoTox so I guess I can say 1-2 words then? Dr Kim said I really should keep silent for the full month though.
I hope I hadn't screwed up anything. However there hasn't been pain or even a sore throat. I'm just worried about it healing OK. In any case I managed to get through the first seven days with just one mild cough and nothing screwed up so I'm hoping everything is fine for the next three weeks or so.
This morning my wife came to wake me up at 4:30 to ask a question. Out of pure reflex because I was asleep I answered, but the voice was slightly elevated above my pre-op pitch. Then I realized, oh darn, what have I done? I'm supposed to keep silent.
Went to my primary doc today and gave her a copy of my records from Yeson as well as the video of my vocal folds so they have it for my file. I also mentioned the clonazepam and other stuff. Checked out my A1C from my last blood draw and it was 6 which is actually pretty good for a diabetic. They also wanted to check my CBC to make sure I'm ok after surgery and any blood loss.
Friday makes it 14 days post op, tomorrow makes it 7 days post BoTox so I guess I can say 1-2 words then? Dr Kim said I really should keep silent for the full month though.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 09, 2015, 01:18:47 PM
Post by: iKate on July 09, 2015, 01:18:47 PM
Quote from: barbie on March 11, 2015, 12:31:47 PM
About 10 years, I frequently used Amex in Korea. It is not so much popular as Visa or Master, but anyway is a standard credit card here.
barbie~~
BTW just a follow up on this, I used Amex everywhere in Seoul without issue. No FTF and the exchange rate was the interbank rate.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Claraaa on July 10, 2015, 10:11:18 AM
Post by: Claraaa on July 10, 2015, 10:11:18 AM
Kate, sorry if I missed this on the thread someplace... What type of job do you have that you can be "silent" for such a long period? I just can't imagine that in my current job.
Clara
Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
Clara
Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 10, 2015, 10:52:06 AM
Post by: iKate on July 10, 2015, 10:52:06 AM
Quote from: Claraaa on July 10, 2015, 10:11:18 AM
Kate, sorry if I missed this on the thread someplace... What type of job do you have that you can be "silent" for such a long period? I just can't imagine that in my current job.
Clara
Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
Engineering and IT supervisor at a division of a TV network in NYC. I sit at a desk all day sending emails and we all IM each other here. I haven't really answered my phone in months as most people communicate with me via email and the phone calls I get are nuisance calls from people trying to sell stuff.
I did clear it with HR though and my VP agreed to accommodate me.
People here have had to accommodate me but the effort has been minimal. I also have a text to speech app on my iPhone and I type really fast.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on July 10, 2015, 02:59:29 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on July 10, 2015, 02:59:29 PM
Can I ask if anyone here paid the Yeson surgery fee by Mastercard or Visa on the day of the consultation? I'm thinking of doing this if Jessie replies to say it will be OK.
Thanks,
Sarah
Thanks,
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on July 10, 2015, 07:51:07 PM
Post by: ReDucks on July 10, 2015, 07:51:07 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 10, 2015, 02:59:29 PMI did, no problems at all. They use the old fashioned carbon paper imprint device (just fyi). Make sure to tell your card company that you will be in South Korea so they don't block the charge.
Can I ask if anyone here paid the Yeson surgery fee by Mastercard or Visa on the day of the consultation? I'm thinking of doing this if Jessie replies to say it will be OK.
Thanks,
Sarah
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 10, 2015, 08:09:31 PM
Post by: iKate on July 10, 2015, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: ReDucks on July 10, 2015, 07:51:07 PM
I did, no problems at all. They use the old fashioned carbon paper imprint device (just fyi). Make sure to tell your card company that you will be in South Korea so they don't block the charge.
Do they take Amex?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: ReDucks on July 10, 2015, 08:16:53 PM
Post by: ReDucks on July 10, 2015, 08:16:53 PM
Quote from: iKate on July 10, 2015, 08:09:31 PMno idea?
Do they take Amex?
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on July 12, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
Post by: Teslagirl on July 12, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
Quote from: ReDucks on July 10, 2015, 07:51:07 PM
I did, no problems at all. They use the old fashioned carbon paper imprint device (just fyi). Make sure to tell your card company that you will be in South Korea so they don't block the charge.
Thanks for the answer. It certainly beats taking the cash out using my credit card, transferring it to my current account, paying it to a foreign currency company and having them transfer it to Yeson. It's cheaper as well, as transactions are not as expensive as using a card to get cash.
Sarah.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: barbie on July 12, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
Post by: barbie on July 12, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 12, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
Thanks for the answer. It certainly beats taking the cash out using my credit card, transferring it to my current account, paying it to a foreign currency company and having them transfer it to Yeson. It's cheaper as well, as transactions are not as expensive as using a card to get cash.
Sarah.
Here in S. Korea, we seldom use cash. Most people pay by credit cards. Also, I use my credit cards to pay transport fee such as subway, taxi (cab) and public bus, but the cards should have a special chip for that purpose. However, small-scale stores and restaurants prefer cash, as they can save tax. As I posted before, Amex is a standard credit card here like Visa and Master. You can pay taxi fee by credit card, but not bus or subway fee.
barbie~~
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 12, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
Post by: iKate on July 12, 2015, 09:34:46 PM
Quote from: barbie on July 12, 2015, 03:05:47 PM
You can pay taxi fee by credit card, but not bus or subway fee.
That really puzzled me. I used a cashbee reloadable card. The reload machines in the train stations, despite being sophisticated, only took cash. It was kind of annoying because I was using my Won notes to haggle with and get discounts from the market sellers and now I had to spend it on subway fare.
In New York I can reload my metrocard with a credit card. In fact, they have some machines that only take credit and ATM cards.
And yes, I was able to use my Amex everywhere. This saved me the foreign transaction fee as it is waived for my card. My mom used Discover as it was accepted everywhere that accepts Diner's Club or JCB. Also no fee.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Sunhawk on July 15, 2015, 10:43:50 PM
Post by: Sunhawk on July 15, 2015, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 10, 2015, 02:59:29 PM
Can I ask if anyone here paid the Yeson surgery fee by Mastercard or Visa on the day of the consultation? I'm thinking of doing this if Jessie replies to say it will be OK.
Thanks,
Sarah
I used my Visa for the first big amount and my Discover for the cost of the Botox.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Teslagirl on July 17, 2015, 03:55:15 AM
Post by: Teslagirl on July 17, 2015, 03:55:15 AM
Does anyone know how much the taxi fare from Yeson to Phil House is? I'm trying to decide which of my two booked hotels to cancel... Oh and also, can you get the direct airport bus back to Incheon anywhere near Phil House?
Thank you,
Cathy (for Sarah)
Thank you,
Cathy (for Sarah)
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 17, 2015, 12:03:01 PM
Post by: iKate on July 17, 2015, 12:03:01 PM
Quote from: Teslagirl on July 17, 2015, 03:55:15 AM
Does anyone know how much the taxi fare from Yeson to Phil House is? I'm trying to decide which of my two booked hotels to cancel... Oh and also, can you get the direct airport bus back to Incheon anywhere near Phil House?
Hi Teslagirl,
I think Anja said it was about about 6 Euro (so about 7500 won). International Taxi speaks English I think. You can reserve them online, too.
There is also Uber in Seoul I believe.
I didn't bother with a taxi. I took the Subway to Apgujeong Rodeo station and walked a bit.
Taxis from Yeson can be a bit problematic as Jessie said they aren't allowed to stop in front of the building so you have to go across the street.
As for the airport I took the train again. I actually took the all stop train and not AREX which is the express train.
The bus info is here:
http://asiaenglish.visitkorea.or.kr/ena/GK/GK_EN_2_2_2_3.jsp
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: svaso on July 17, 2015, 12:46:05 PM
Post by: svaso on July 17, 2015, 12:46:05 PM
I stayed about 3/4's of a mile at the LaCasa(great hotel btw)and hoofed it on each visit. Even walked back to my hotel the evening after my surgery. I loved walking the streets in Seoul, but cars, mopeds and pedestrians all seem to share the side streets. It's amazing I didn't get run over. :P
On a side note...See if your hotel has a humidifier available to use. Mine did, and I feel it's beneficial to the healing.
On a side note...See if your hotel has a humidifier available to use. Mine did, and I feel it's beneficial to the healing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 17, 2015, 01:04:08 PM
Post by: iKate on July 17, 2015, 01:04:08 PM
The streets were indeed nice to walk. I wish I had stayed closer but I had a good time at Phil House. I was glad I had the washing machine to do laundry too as I only had one piece of laundry to do when I came back.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 19, 2015, 04:17:47 PM
Post by: anjaq on July 19, 2015, 04:17:47 PM
We used taxi only once, after surgery. Otherwise we just took the subway. I was still half out, so my friend paid the taxi, I believe it was about 10000 won maybe. For me it was totally worth it for two people and saving me the effort to change subways and all that while still feeling shaky. We did not order a taxi at Yeson, just went down to the street and waited a minute until a free taxi came by. It did just stop at the street in front of Yeson and we got in quickly and showed the driver the Phil house business card. Easy enough to do while still half sleeping
I seem to be one of few who did not take the anaesthesia that easy though. Most seem to be totally fit at the time of discharge
I seem to be one of few who did not take the anaesthesia that easy though. Most seem to be totally fit at the time of discharge
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Dena on July 19, 2015, 04:37:37 PM
Post by: Dena on July 19, 2015, 04:37:37 PM
Quote from: anjaq on July 19, 2015, 04:17:47 PMI agree with what you say about the anesthesia. I am glad I had a hospital room because that stuff hung on for several hours after i woke up. I was all right as long as I was still but once I started moving around I had to move slow and be careful where I placed my feet.
We used taxi only once, after surgery. Otherwise we just took the subway. I was still half out, so my friend paid the taxi, I believe it was about 10000 won maybe. For me it was totally worth it for two people and saving me the effort to change subways and all that while still feeling shaky. We did not order a taxi at Yeson, just went down to the street and waited a minute until a free taxi came by. It did just stop at the street in front of Yeson and we got in quickly and showed the driver the Phil house business card. Easy enough to do while still half sleeping
I seem to be one of few who did not take the anaesthesia that easy though. Most seem to be totally fit at the time of discharge
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on July 19, 2015, 06:02:10 PM
Post by: kwala on July 19, 2015, 06:02:10 PM
Quote from: Dena on July 19, 2015, 04:37:37 PMQuestion for you gals, were you so loopy after the anesthesia that you forgot to be silent or not cough? Sounds silly but it's something I've worried about :)
I agree with what you say about the anesthesia. I am glad I had a hospital room because that stuff hung on for several hours after i woke up. I was all right as long as I was still but once I started moving around I had to move slow and be careful where I placed my feet.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Dena on July 19, 2015, 06:30:52 PM
Post by: Dena on July 19, 2015, 06:30:52 PM
Quote from: kwala on July 19, 2015, 06:02:10 PMSome coughing is going to happen no matter what. I had a load to get rid of when I woke up from surgery but I did it gently and no damage was done. Dr Haben said mistake are going to happen but try to control it the best you can. I worked on it for a week before surgery so I had some idea how to control coughs without doing any damage.
Question for you gals, were you so loopy after the anesthesia that you forgot to be silent or not cough? Sounds silly but it's something I've worried about :)
For me it was mostly balance. My inter ear is somewhat sensitive to that and I need to move carefully when dealing with drugs like that or ear infections. With Dr Haben the real scare is a coughing fit. That's why he gives you codeine medication. That stuff also puts me to sleep so I am reserving it incase I should catch a bug that might damage Dr Haben's. The most effective solution I have found is ice water with a straw in it. The straw reduces you intake and allows the water to warm a bit in you mouth before it cools the source of the irritation. Only problem with this solution is I am making a bunch of trips to the bathroom. I think in the hospital I produce over a gallon of water the first day (they measured me).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: kwala on July 19, 2015, 06:41:11 PM
Post by: kwala on July 19, 2015, 06:41:11 PM
Quote from: Dena on July 19, 2015, 06:30:52 PMVery helpful, thanks!
Some coughing is going to happen no matter what. I had a load to get rid of when I woke up from surgery but I did it gently and no damage was done. Dr Haben said mistake are going to happen but try to control it the best you can. I worked on it for a week before surgery so I had some idea how to control coughs without doing any damage.
For me it was mostly balance. My inter ear is somewhat sensitive to that and I need to move carefully when dealing with drugs like that or ear infections. With Dr Haben the real scare is a coughing fit. That's why he gives you codeine medication. That stuff also puts me to sleep so I am reserving it incase I should catch a bug that might damage Dr Haben's. The most effective solution I have found is ice water with a straw in it. The straw reduces you intake and allows the water to warm a bit in you mouth before it cools the source of the irritation. Only problem with this solution is I am making a bunch of trips to the bathroom. I think in the hospital I produce over a gallon of water the first day (they measured me).
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 19, 2015, 07:08:41 PM
Post by: iKate on July 19, 2015, 07:08:41 PM
I have no idea what happened when I woke up but I don't recall coughing. Over the 7 days I coughed maybe twice and it was very gentle. I did my best and the synatura helped a lot.
I took anesthesia pretty well. I was weak for a few hours but I was able to walk and get the subway after that. I did sleep soundly over the next couple days though. My mom said maybe she needed some because she has insomnia. Lol.
I took anesthesia pretty well. I was weak for a few hours but I was able to walk and get the subway after that. I did sleep soundly over the next couple days though. My mom said maybe she needed some because she has insomnia. Lol.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: anjaq on July 20, 2015, 02:54:59 AM
Post by: anjaq on July 20, 2015, 02:54:59 AM
I coughed until I was blue during anaesthesia-wakup. So I was not even aware yet but already coughed massively. So yes, it can happen. There is little you can do about it though. After I woke up, I was very careful and managed to cough very rarely and silently. I also managed not to sneeze.
I drank a lot of water - really a lot. Luckily in Seoul, every subway station has free and reasonably clean public restrooms.
I think maybe it is my age, but I was still not quite fit when I was discharged at 17:00 from yeson. I was at that point wishing I could have stayed 2 hours longer. So thats why I took the taxi (and seriously - I just spent $7500 on a surgery, I did not care if the taxi costs $10 more than the subway to bring me to my bed without walking and standing around in crowded subways and stations ;) ). Another reason may be that I had a surgery with anaesthesia just 7 weeks before, so maybe that was the combination...
I drank a lot of water - really a lot. Luckily in Seoul, every subway station has free and reasonably clean public restrooms.
I think maybe it is my age, but I was still not quite fit when I was discharged at 17:00 from yeson. I was at that point wishing I could have stayed 2 hours longer. So thats why I took the taxi (and seriously - I just spent $7500 on a surgery, I did not care if the taxi costs $10 more than the subway to bring me to my bed without walking and standing around in crowded subways and stations ;) ). Another reason may be that I had a surgery with anaesthesia just 7 weeks before, so maybe that was the combination...
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: iKate on July 20, 2015, 08:57:01 AM
Post by: iKate on July 20, 2015, 08:57:01 AM
We bought several two litre bottles of water. It came in handy. Unfortunately we had to leave a couple of bottles behind because we bought too much.
The fridge came in handy as I like my water ice cold and it helped when my throat was a bit irritated. That helped a LOT with not coughing.
The fridge came in handy as I like my water ice cold and it helped when my throat was a bit irritated. That helped a LOT with not coughing.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Dana88 on July 20, 2015, 09:56:01 PM
Post by: Dana88 on July 20, 2015, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: iKate on July 20, 2015, 08:57:01 AM
We bought several two litre bottles of water. It came in handy. Unfortunately we had to leave a couple of bottles behind because we bought too much.
The fridge came in handy as I like my water ice cold and it helped when my throat was a bit irritated. That helped a LOT with not coughing.
Agreed. I just got back from Seoul on Saturday. The hotel I was at was right by a 7/11. Every morning when my brother and I left the hotel we'd stop in and I'd get a two liter bottle of water, and every night on our way back I'd stop in and get another. One and a half weeks in and I've managed to only cough twice. Not clearing my throat has been a little more difficult but whenever I've done it I've done it lightly. But I found with the meds they give you, plus the water, half the time I'd just breathe up whatever was stuck in my chest without effort.
Title: Re: Yeson voice feminization surgery
Post by: Mariah on July 26, 2015, 02:11:11 PM
Post by: Mariah on July 26, 2015, 02:11:11 PM
Topic split into topic 2.0
This topic is retired and locked as a result.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192899.0.html
This topic is retired and locked as a result.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192899.0.html